Good evening, everybody.

Welcome to the uh school buildings, facilities and maintenance joint committee meeting with the uh Sungrove School Committee.

Um I'm Jesse Klingon, the chair of this committee.

And before I take attendance and dive into our business, I'm gonna read this blurb that allows us to hold this meeting uh remote.

So pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of a city summer, sorry, city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

Um that said uh we have our clerk, Madam Clerk.

Could you please call the role to establish quorum?

Yep, that's a roll call.

Counselor Davis.

Here.

Council Say.

Chair Klingon.

Present.

All right, with that, everyone's here.

So we do have quorum.

All right.

So now that we've established quorum, before we get into our uh agenda, I will turn it over to the school committee to open up their meeting.

Chair Patan, uh, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Chair Klingon.

This is Liron Bitone for school committee calling our uh meeting to order of the school building facilities maintenance subcommittee.

Uh is Sarah Phillips.

Are you there?

I'm here.

Great.

Um Laura Patone.

She just texted me saying she would be here in a moment.

So uh we have quorum, and I uh we'll look forward to seeing Laura in just a moment.

Uh so we have quorum and uh Chair Klingon will turn it back to you.

All right, excellent.

Uh this is our last meeting of uh the 2025 session calendar year.

Um I don't know if I'll be chair next uh the next year, but uh I've had a lot of fun for the last couple months chairing.

Um that said, uh so I believe these items, regardless of what happens, the box will be cleared out and we'll resubmit some of these more standing items, like um item number two.

Um but let's just I'm gonna go ahead and um start with item number one, approval of the minutes of the school buildings facilities maintenance special committee of October 28th.

Um let's just do a quick roll call on that to uh get that business out of the way.

All right, on approval of the minutes, ID number 25-1708, Counselor Davis.

Yes.

Counselor Say.

Yes.

Chair Klingon.

Yes.

All right, that is all votes in the affirmative.

All right.

So just going in order of uh our agenda here, item number two, which is a longstanding item that we keep in committee by uh Counselor Davis and basically everybody.

Uh, that the administration provides a special committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates about the Massachusetts School Building Authority process for the Winter Hill and Brown Schools.

We have Rich Rage.

I don't know how substantial of a of an update there is right now, but um we have oh, we have uh liaison Radisi.

Um go ahead, liaison.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, for the record, Yasmin Rdassi, uh legislative liaison with IGA.

Um, you are right.

Uh, no substantive update on this.

Just want to share that the mayor and the mayor elect are um in touch on this, where they're committed to making sure that this is a smooth a transition as possible and that they are waiting for the recommendations from the school construction advisory group.

And I believe that Director Raish has um an update from the last school building committee to share as well.

The uh the school building committee is now in a cadence we're meeting monthly.

Uh this past month's uh meeting focused on the uh educational plan.

Uh our consultant uh architect uh uh Perkins Easman is uh meeting a number of workshops uh with the SPS administration uh to develop the educational plan.

Uh and we have committed that uh once that plan is developed uh with the administration that will bring it to the school committee uh as uh the school committee did for the high school um vote to accept that.

So we're we're tracking for that meeting.

Uh the work on that uh educational program will be uh through these early months of the uh of the um winter, uh probably come to the uh school committee in uh February or March.

Thank you for that, Director Rish.

Um, yeah, I recommend anybody, you know, just so you know I don't think Director Rachel can't regurgitate everything that happened in the MSBA um committee meeting.

Uh but those meetings are recorded.

And so the the uh firm that we have hired to guide us through this process um has a pretty aggressive time schedule that includes um some community engagement that's coming up, um, a couple like opportunities for community engagement.

I just recommend it uh you all, you know, anybody who wants to um see their presentation and kind of what they've been up to thus far in the short amount of time.

Uh those meetings are posted on the City of Summerville website.

Um the last one was last Monday, I believe.

Um so that would be the first.

Yeah, it was on 12.1.

So yeah, check those out.

And uh things are moving, things are moving.

So thank you, Director Reish.

Um so that one will be one that we uh want to resubmit.

Uh so counselor Davis, you can do that.

Um, because I don't again, I don't know if I'll be on this committee.

Um, let's go right to item number three.

That's uh an order from former counselor Panata Newfell that the director of infrastructure and asset management develop a swing space plan to accommodate some public school students to mitigate your disruptions to students, families, and staff while school building is unavailable or during construction.

We did discuss this previously, and there is a plan, there is a location.

Um there is an idea of what we can do.

But furthermore, there is a memo attached to the agenda, kind of outlining.

I'm sorry, Clerk, I'll get with you in one second.

Um the uh the COOP plan to continuity of operations plan.

Um there's a great memo attached to the agenda by director of office uh of emergency management, William Fisher, who's here.

And um, yeah, this is just laying out a timeline.

So as far as being execut uh executable, you know, there's still some some labor that needs to be done.

I'll let him speak to that.

Uh Madam Clerk, I'm sorry, I see your hand up.

No worries, thank you.

Um sorry to interrupt.

Do we want to mark that last agenda item as we're complete or leave it in the committee?

Lance, can you just clarify?

Because I've been confused in the past.

Like I know that we were doing this practice of just clearing out the boxes, but then we didn't weren't always doing it strictly.

Sometimes things were kept in.

Where are we with that?

Mr.

Yeah, happy to uh speak to that.

Um so the you know, as you'll recall, the the practice years back was to just um at the last meeting or at the first meeting to renew all items that had been a committee.

Um that is no longer in favor.

Um so my understanding is that any items that were sent to committees for action, um, you know, for for to recommend approval or recommend to not be approved or et cetera, will remain a committee.

Um discussion items like the bulk, if not all, of the ones in in in our committee here um will would you know automatically expire um and then could be recommitted.

As to the to the clerk's question, um it's a matter of choice, um, a matter of preference of the of the chair and the members of the committee.

My personal thought, um, and I'll I'll acknowledge this, you know, this speaks as much to my sort of um, you know, executive functioning um tricks and techniques as anything else, is that if we mark things we're complete, they then no longer in the box are in the box.

And to the extent that you know any of us or any of our new colleagues who may or may not be on uh you know a certain committee um in in next year, might want to go take a look at the box and see if there's items that are important to them uh to to resubmit, those would no longer be there.

So, you know, my my my thought, my preference is sort of let them expire because then they remain sitting there until you know, for as long as someone wants to take a peek at what is what it is that it that is expiring, right?

Um you know, and literally for no other reason than that, other than so that they're still visible for folks to you know see what's there and and decide whether or not they want to re resubmit something.

Uh, but they certainly could be work marked work complete.

Um I I don't it's that's not my preference.

I I feel like we risk losing items, uh, you know, just from memory if uh if that's the case.

Yeah, no, I agree.

We're gonna leave this one open.

Um it's most then obviously it's gonna get resubmitted.

Um whether or not it expires.

Not that we're going to forget about this particular item for sure, but just as a general practice, there are there are others that maybe not quite as prominent.

Thank you.

Okay.

No, I I I get it.

Yeah, so number two um keeping committee, please.

Perfect.

Thank you.

And then uh moving on to number three, which I already read.

Um, we do have, like I said, there is a memo attached um to the agenda, and we do have director Fisher here to speak on the item.

Thank you, Chair, and through the chair.

Uh, again, Director Fisher from the Office of Emergency Management, Sir Somerville.

So the uh the memo outlines a lot of the details.

I will say that this process started uh in October.

We started meeting with the school administration as well as city administration to establish a framework.

From there, the last month and a half or so, we've been working to establish uh understanding of what the issues may be or the risks may be.

Uh also trying to understand clearly what the critical resources are, whether that be personnel, uh physical resources, and to make sure that any space that's chosen and any plan actually reflects uh the educational expectations that we have for our schools and those are continued and so that we're hitting all those benchmarks moving forward.

Uh so with that, we're continuing.

Mr.

Director, I'm sorry, Mr.

Chairman.

May I interrupt for a minute just for a point of uh called a point of information or a request.

Could could I just ask?

I I have this document open, but for folks who may not have found the link and watch it on screen.

Could I just we just ask the clerk to uh expand it?

It's showing up very, very small on my screen.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So I'm looking at my my my local version, but you know, just so everyone can um participate if folks are watching from home.

Thank you.

So I apologize for the eruption, Mr.

Victor.

Thank you, Councillor Davis.

It was very small.

My eyes are not great anymore either.

Um, so as I was saying, so we we have a bunch of things going on.

We've actually, at this point, we have a cadence where we're meeting weekly to discuss uh the different topics to keep this moving forward.

And the process is basically again uh that we're understanding those those um risks and the critical resources, and then we'll be shortly moving into looking at alternative facilities and continuity options for to meet those resources, and from there we'll continue on the planning process with uh a draft plan, testing the draft plan through an exercise and then formalizing a um completed final plan that we can put into action uh for that point uh without any other details and the other details are kind of outlined in the in the memo.

I won't read through those and uh in specifics, but just know that the process is well underway.

And uh some of the, you know, you may note that there's actually a skip from October to December in the memo and in the timeline.

That is just because we, you know, there's a lot of stuff to consider.

We want to make sure we're not missing anything, and we fell behind a little bit on the timeline, but we're still moving forward and working through that.

And it's just making sure we had everything as we go.

Uh well, thank you.

Um, but director in October, we were told, and I don't see a reference here.

I would think that the plan was speaking to the location we were given, which would be that all city staff would be immediately moved out of the tab, and we would most likely use the tab.

Is this uh the is this framework related to the tab building?

That's correct.

So we where we are right now, without getting into the details because again, some of this stuff is still being worked out.

The the plan would be have we'd have the initial uh situation that would we'd be assessed for the disruption of the school.

If we decided that we needed to move, the the initial thought would be to move into the tab and ensure that the tab has the resources to meet the needs in a temporary basis.

So it would be, you know, the incident would happen, then we would have a very temporary basis while we find a more permanent solution and a different facility, or if the tab met it and we it worked out fine, but that's not the uh where we're going with this is to have a phased approach.

Gotcha.

That makes sense.

Okay, uh, any questions from colleagues on the um council side on this particular item.

All right, we'll see anybody.

Um Chair Matan, take it away.

Thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um for those watching, I just want to note that the timeline including in this memo concludes in March 2026.

Um Director Fisher, if if I may, um ask you, what do you think being uh a risk mitigation person, uh, what do you think the risk of slippage in time is uh on meeting that that uh fairly aggressive deadline so it's you know it's it's difficult to say for sure because I don't know what's coming down the timeline, but I will say if you if you note on the timeline that a large portion at the tail end of this timeline is to actually vet the drafted plan to do an exercise and have an opportunity to do an after action review so that the final plan is the best plan we could have.

So looking at this, the the draft plan should be, and if there was a slight delay, it should be done around the end of January.

If there's a slight delay, it could be towards February.

But my point is that at that point we would have a draft plan that we could execute if we needed to.

It just wouldn't be fine-tuned to a perfect plan.

We want to have a place.

And so we could have an actionable plan based on this more comprehensive review and plan development for continuity in that time frame.

Although, having said that, as the chair said, we have a very rough draft of an initial plan that we could execute right now if we needed to.

All right.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Um any questions from my colleagues.

All right, not seeing any.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Director.

You know, I think this just, you know, like you said, whether or not it's perfect at this point, I think this just quells a lot of the anxiety uh that folks have that somebody is working on uh potential plan uh in the event that we you know uh had an emergency school situation because we're no stranger to those.

And um, you know, it's good to have something something in place and um this is a this is a nice memo.

I appreciate it.

And we'll uh I'm gonna probably uh Madam Clerk, I'm gonna keep this one also in committee just because this is kind of an ongoing, so I can I'll probably have to reintroduce that one.

Got it.

And that'll bring us moving on to item number four, also from Council Payne and Newfell that the mayor create and make public specific plans that outline the full scope of work necessary at the coming school, including capacity, time and cost to host some of our public school students in the event of an emergency and provide regular updates to this council until such plans are completed.

Uh, we also we do have a memo from Director Rish who's here to speak this evening.

Um I don't know if I I looked over the memo and a lot of it, so it sounds like we're doing improvements now based on the fact that we're using it as a warming center, but these will be improvements that are working towards ultimately uh potentially having a school uh functional operational school building um in the long term, maybe I don't know.

Uh Director Raish, go ahead and um uh thank you, Chair Clean.

Yeah, so the the memo here, um this is still work in progress.

Uh the memo here outlines the work that we were doing, you know, specifically for to occupy for the warming center.

Um, but it is also useful work uh in terms of occupying the Prescott Street wing of the building.

Uh, in addition to that, uh we have just uh excuse me, finished uh uh scope and fee negotiations with Bayer Blender Bell, uh, who is the architecture firm that um did the work at the Edgerly uh and at City Hall uh roof and clock tower, um excellent firm.

Uh so we just signed a contract amendment with them to do additional investigative work uh in in the Cummings and specifically in the school street wing there uh to give us the list of additional upgrades that would need to be done to to the building to occupy it.

Um so that that contract was only just signed, as you probably heard me before.

It takes a long time to get those contracts in place.

Um so the work is underway.

Um director Ralph Henry from Capital Projects is also here.

He can speak to specifics on the work that's just been done uh again for the for the warming center, uh and also what's planned uh for buyer blender bell.

But um, you know, again, that's just that's kicking off.

I imagine is going to be subject of a future meeting.

So uh we probably don't need to go too far down the details on on that part.

Yeah, just on that though, uh Director Rish to either you or or Mr.

Henry, um the contract that we just signed.

I'm sorry, just so just for clarity purposes, they're gonna evaluate the building on what it would take, you know, both you know scope work-wise as well as financially to get this to be a school building again for correct.

There's there's a number of deficiencies in the building from ADA to electric and plumbing code.

Uh there's also some structural deficiencies.

Uh, so they're they're looking at it through all of those lenses and giving us um you know a conceptual scope of work for what would need to be done uh and planning level costs, cost estimates for that.

Um, and we do anticipate that that that number is going to be fairly high.

Um, just from walking around the building, we know there's quite a lot of work um that that uh would need to be done in there.

Uh so they're they're working on that.

I'm just curious about one thing.

I don't see any hands from my colleagues yet.

But um, so in terms of like the MSBA process and the feasibility and all that, like how how does this does this dip into that process at all in terms of like we have this other school building?

Um and if we're like would this work, could this work that this firm is doing be sort of folded into our larger process?

Uh to the chair, unlikely.

I mean, the the first thing we need to do is assess the building.

So once once we assess the building and have an idea of those costs and what that scope of work is, we can make other strategic plans, but um, I wouldn't uh complicate the current MSBA process by trying to inject this because it would be a very little benefit to us.

Yeah, no, I wouldn't want to complicate either.

I just was thinking that in their mind, in MSBA's mind, we have what is officially a school building under the control of the school department.

Um that is unused right now.

So I didn't know if that was like a red flag for them or something, you know, not from our side, certainly particularly great.

Any questions from colleagues on on this?

This is a work in progress.

Um, probably will work complete this one and then put something in in the future.

Yeah, Mr.

Chair, if I may.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, I I guess thank you, Ms.

Chair.

Um, so I just sort of thinking about it.

Thank you for that question.

Sort of thinking about that.

Um, and this is something that I've been sort of kicking around a bunch in the last few weeks as well, as we think about the the Winter Hill School project.

Um, you know, uh so there's I I mean, I guess at least three school buildings, one way uh that this that that are under control of the school department that aren't you know active schools, one of those, of course, being the winter the edger league school, which is very much is active and very much um is the Winter Hill school right now.

Um and obviously uh the other being the 1895 building, which I don't think anyone reasonably anticipates being used for a school building ever again.

Um at least I don't.

Um, you know, but the the you know the coming school certainly is is uh you know a different category.

And I guess to your question, um, and I don't know if this is a question more or more just sort of thinking out loud, like um you know, given the improvements that we're doing to use it as a warming center and as as director raish noted, you know, get in a handle on what else would be needed to uh make it a possible swing space.

Um I guess your your your question about whether the the um SBA process, whether that might be relevant point, I think uh you know I'm trying to think of a wait a minute to make this sort of phrase this at a question, but maybe like I I I'll stop trying.

Um I I guess maybe it's more relevant in that you know it it once we are through the winter hill process, um, as we look at you know what is the future of the the building that contains the brown school right now.

Um, you know, that certainly could be a relevant factor in uh you know a future you know reconstruction or even moving to a new location, depending potentially um for uh you know for a a replacement for the brown school if that if uh if that project if that concept remains separate.

Um so I think this is this is actually great.

I mean, it's important work and and um seems like it'll open up uh you know a number of other opportunities going forward in in you know it fewers down the road when if and when we get to that point.

Um so yeah, could come up with a question there, but just thinking out loud, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Well, I just got one quick question, which is that um through you uh to I'm sorry to director Raches, like these improvements that we uh have done or are doing, like that they don't hit any trigger for like having to go full ADA or anything like that, right?

That's not is it like a $300,000 number or something like that?

Or yeah, through through the chair.

Um the the work that we've been doing is largely code compliant work and ADA work, which doesn't like self-trigger other things.

Um but it it does you know, even even if it doesn't make the Prescott wing viable for educational purposes, it may very well make that wing viable for other functions that would then free up space at say the tab.

You know, like it it can it can be looked at in in that sort of overall portfolio, if if not directly for student education, um it it uh it it gives us additional space um to to shift things around.

Yeah, I mean God forbid we need that west wing for uh people from the tab that because the kids have to go into the tab.

So but but yeah, that's good work.

Um you want to add anything, Mr.

Henry, before we turn it over to the school committee.

I don't see any other hands from colleagues.

Uh uh nope, nope.

I think Rich pretty much hit that on the head.

Um, most of the the work that we're doing right now is really just to bring the you know the code compliant issues, fire alarm system, for example, um, you know, restrooms to be compliant just uh in some additional heating capacity in those rooms, which would obviously be needed for the Warnweak Center.

Patone first so we'll go to her thank you can you hear me yep loud and clear awesome thank you um thanks for this uh I just have there's one short question and then one it's not a long question but um is Byer Blender group that worked on the master planning like five or six years ago no through the chair yes so they've so they've done just for context for the committee they've actually done some analysis on this building because this was part of the original master planning work I obviously this is going to be more detail and the building through the chair um buyer blender bill did not investigate the Cummings building um but they are familiar with all of the other buildings in our functioning okay was there a different organization that looked at the Cummings or it just didn't get looked at in that way uh the Cummings was not looked at oh okay thank you for that reminder um and then I'm just gonna ask my other question which is I think I want to make sure I understand in terms of the process for this building in general you know we know we have multiple potential uses one of them is to for administration purposes um but it for I want to make sure I understand I think this work of assessing and evaluating the building has to be done either way to make a decision about how to disposition the building correct correct okay so good so this is the foundation work that we have to do either way so that we can make choices that are thoughtful and the school committee can choose whether or not to maintain the building under the can you hear me you can hear me um we can whether or not to maintain the building okay good sorry um whether or not we're going to keep them building as a school in their our portfolio or whether or not we're going to release the building and it goes to the city but this is the foundation work that has to happen in order to make those choices.

So that's correct excellent uh thank you Ms.

Patone yeah I think um she's traveling right now and I appreciate her um making this a priority so she can participate regardless uh we'll go to Dr.

Phillips thanks to you chair um just wanted to clarify right like the potential uses that the district is aligning around and I don't know if Miss Barry is here.

Oh you are you can tell me if I'm wrong right the potentially uses our adult office space places for scale places for all our basic needs stuff potential swing space if we have to do renovations on a school am I missing any of the purposes that the district is considering at this point no I don't believe so thank you.

Okay.

I'll ask a question about maybe in the memo but um and apologies if it is but uh wondering uh now that the contract is signed um with uh I'm gonna call it BBB um uh when do we anticipate that uh that work in evaluation being completed from them yet I know we're kicking it off real soon yeah we're kicking it off very soon I would say probably to be conservative it'd probably be about two two to three months for them to gather everything uh I apologize I should say through the chair it'll probably take about three months for them to pull everything together again they bring in uh building envelope specialists MEP specialists uh ADA you know looking at any uh additional access for the building including elevators things of that nature so they bring a whole gamut uh including energy stretch code food service you know so they look at all the different angles through that review okay and just to follow up there uh after that evaluation um presumably they issue some sort of report and uh give that to the city is that I mean so it's sounding like a few months is is the kind of projected timeline um are you thinking that's the report that's the when we should expect a report or is that uh longer out uh through the chair uh no it's a good question it typically the way the process works is they'll they'll put together some draft language for us to look at one of the more difficult pieces that have to come together is the actual project estimating that they use one of their third party estimating companies to do and you know that can take a little bit of time you know as they look at escalation of costs things of that nature in in in the whole gamut of what it might be.

Uh through the chair, uh, it's a good question.

Typically, the way the process works is they'll they'll put together some draft language for us to look at one of the more difficult pieces that have to come together is the actual project estimating that they use one of their third-party estimating companies to do.

And you know, that can take a little bit of time, you know, as they look at escalation of costs, things of that nature, and in the whole gamut of what it might be.

And you know, Rich and I would look at it and discuss whether or not there's some elements that we might want to look at differently depending on what they proposed.

But I would say probably three months and then having some draft reports and then eventually, you know, packaged together with uh with a construction cost estimate.

Okay.

In which case that might be another month or or so and building in some back and forth, seeing a thumbs up.

That's reasonable.

So I you know, my suggestion then would be for us to um keep this in the back of our minds for uh for the I don't know, May timeline, um, when that work may be complete.

Um and there may have been some time to synthesize that at the city side and um uh and have a an informed discussion here with uh the joint committee.

Um so great.

That that sounds uh excellent to me.

Um and I appreciate the hard work that has gone into securing the bid and the commitment to um to moving this forward.

So nothing more for me.

Uh we'll turn it back over to you, Chair uh Clean.

Thank you.

Yeah, you know, since we're looking at, you know, May, probably five months before that report's ready for prime time and for these guys to um come back and present that report.

Um I'm just gonna work complete this one, Madam Clerk.

Get that out of the box.

Anybody else have anything on that?

Okay, moving on to item number five, uh from Councillor Said that the director of infrastructure and asset management and the director of opposite sustainability environment provide a written report to this council by July 1st regarding any updates on measures and practices taken to assess, monitor, maintain, improve helpfulness of the school's physical environment.

Um I know you want to give some background some context to it, Councilor Saeed.

I was gonna say I know that uh liaison Radisi um Radasi, sorry, um is here to just get you know say that like they're not quite ready.

Um, but it would be helpful just uh hear sort of what your thinking wise with this order in terms of the scope, you know.

I mean it it seems like it's pretty wide in that it could include like you know, I don't know, filtration systems or something, um or uh you know, just reading it on face value.

I I it I found it somewhat daunting, but um certainly important.

So go ahead and take it away, counselor Sae.

Uh through the chair, thank you uh for that uh introduction.

Um so this is uh as you all know, back in 2024, we we as a city council and a school committee passed a resolution on actions to promote student and community health and resilience and the area of climate change.

And uh in the resolution outline steps uh that we can uh all uh obviously you know we don't need to stick to what's in the resolution, but the hope is to work together so that we can um achieve decarbonization of the school uh buildings, and um in the resolution it says that starting uh 2024-2025 school year, both uh bodies will receive an update on this work by July 1st.

Uh I put in this order back in May or June.

Um, so that's why it's appearing on today's agenda, and I intend to put in uh I will yeah, so it doesn't matter if this one expires, I will remember to uh submit a new order.

And um I have been uh offline uh reaching out to the administration um to uh director Blaze on this, and uh also to direct a rage, and it will be great to have this written report again.

This resolution was passed unanimously by both bodies, and uh I understand that we have obviously you know things right now that are more for priority, um, such as the Winter Hill.

But again, I would like this to not be just forgotten because it's important to look at the full picture.

We just discussed an item about if um another school goes down, what is the plan?

And this is how I think about this resolution is in the event that you know school doesn't have heating, a school doesn't have uh AC school, you know, just uh I don't know, a ceiling collapse is uh what's our plan?

What's our plan in the next few years and what's our plan in 10 years?

Um yeah, so I have haven't seen any uh um communication from the administration on this.

So we'd love to hear um about this and if we have any update.

Yeah, thank you for refreshing my memory uh of that resolution that we passed.

Um I that that definitely clarifies thing.

I don't you know, go back and read the the specifics in the resolution, but um but certainly I understand it's the strait of this order now.

Um before I turn to the school committee, um I just wanted to double check with Lee Zanradasi that just if you have a statement to make um that helps clarify things or the chair, thank you.

Um yes, uh we are aware of this.

It was actually um provision of the SEU contract collective bargaining agreement.

Um, and so as it's laid out in that collective bargaining agreement.

Um the next step would be for the school committee through presumably SPS legal to reach out to the city's attorney's office so they can figure out.

I believe it's an MOU to set the standards for what helpfulness of the physical environment would look like so that we have that like comparison of doing that evaluation.

Um, so that that's where we are at at this moment.

That's very helpful and makes sense.

Um thank you.

Any questions on the I do uh have a question?

Go for it.

Yeah, uh thank you, uh Chair.

Uh so when do we expect to have an update on this?

Um since we haven't received an update since July 1st of this year.

The chair, um, like I mentioned in the collective bargaining agreement, it lays out the steps.

Um, and so uh school committee through SPS legal.

Again, I'm not exactly sure of the mechanics, but uh would need to work on that MOU with the city um legal uh law department.

Um and I have flagged this for SPS administration as uh waiting on that next step.

So uh again, haven't forgotten about it.

We've communicated to SPS that that from our understanding is the next step.

So uh looking forward to hearing from them in the future.

Uh that refreshes sorry, council say go ahead.

I'm sorry.

No, I was just gonna say uh thank you.

Um, but yeah, it sounds like this conversation has to happen.

And um actually I have not looked at the latest contract, this year's contract, uh, and what is the exact language there?

So we will um would love to hear from our school committee members or um the uh school staff here.

Um yeah.

Yeah, well, I see uh someone from the school committee has a hand up, so I'm sure um the school committee paton has something to say on it.

Um but I will say that, yeah, definitely I know I remember we this was something that the council was sort of in support of, but it's definitely sort of on the school side of things in terms of the the you know what both the parameters of what exactly the healthiness of the environment means.

And so I look forward to that being sort of spelled out and uh happy to support, happy to continue supporting um SCU and our students.

Um your hands still have Councillor Said.

Did you have one something else?

I'm happy to okay.

Uh yeah, so with that, I'm gonna um turn it over to the school committee, Chair Baton.

Thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um, and I just want to thank Councillor Said for um spearheading that uh resolution on the city council side.

Um I was uh very pleased to work with her on that and advocates uh because we did pass our own version of that uh was nearly identical to the city council side, and I think it sent a powerful um statement that both bodies are are committed to that uh that important work.

Um, as is uh uh the SEU.

So um really pleased to be working uh in partnership.

Um I see Ms.

Patone has her hand up, so I will go to you, Ms.

Patone.

Thank you.

Can you hear me?

Yes, and uh an announcement behind you.

Yes, the cafe car is now open.

So in case you wanted a microwave cheeseburger, they're all set.

Um I had a side comment.

So yes, I I very much appreciate what um counselor say has brought up.

And we as the school committee, I probably through you, Mr.

Batone, but you can decide should follow up with the superintendent about executing the work to create the MOU.

But I would you could talk to them offline, but also I think we should bring it up in our next school coding meeting as an item from boards members, but I give them a flag.

So thank you for that.

And and we can get that ball rolling.

I mean, I don't know what the timeline is going to be.

We're gonna have to hear back from the district, but um, so thank you for that clarification.

The thing I had to ask about was um, and I apologize if this doesn't fit in this item, but I'm just gonna put it out there and we can decide that it's not relevant.

But associated with the sort of maintaining improved school buildings, one thing that I've been kind of getting my head around is the MSBA has reinitiated their accelerated repair program, which is also called the ARP program, and that's focused on routes, windows, and doors, as well as they have a heat pump program, which could be directly um interesting in the context of the climate work that um through the contract with the SEU.

And just for context, um, they awarded in this year, and every two years they're gonna do awards.

And so we as a school committee can submit for whichever school buildings we feel like need to have a roof repair, or if there's interested in the idea of doing a heat pump conversion on and I don't know if that's viable at all for us, but um, so I just wanted to put that out there, and I don't know if Commissioner Raish is still on the call.

Um, and just to put also some one more piece of context is that there are schools that are in the MSBA building program that are also in the accelerated repair program.

So it's not unprecedented that a district gets awarded both.

So currently Medford High School is building a high school, and then they've also had two other buildings that were accepted into I think one is just the roof and one might be a roof and heat pump, but I please don't quote me on that.

I've tried to actually research and find the exact information, but this is something I learned through uh school committee med for in Medford.

So you might not be prepared to speak about this.

Obviously, the school committee has the authority to put in an application, but obviously we would love to do that in partner with the city and figure out because we do it in partnership.

Um so we basically the school committee can authorize it, but we can't do it alone.

We have to do it with the city.

And so um thinking about the timing and whether or not the district is gonna be and the city is gonna position to want to start working on an application in the fall of 26 to put in your application early in 27 uh to the chair.

We we wouldn't be able to physically do the heat pump um on the program until we have swing space.

Um, because the the work that would need to be done in the classrooms would be longer than our eight-week summer window, we would have to displace.

So um it's something that we we will be very interested to do once the new school opens, specific, especially if we have the additional capacity there plus um educally uh to start rotating um some classrooms and do that.

Um so I think that's something we can think about further down the line.

Um we are tracking uh some root projects for the Healy and for the JFK.

Um that I think uh it would be a good idea to start thinking about um the repair accelerated repair program for those roofs um as we're as we're lining up that work.

Um so let's uh let's strategize in the new year on uh on the school committee's assistance on that program.

All right, I am incredibly grateful to Ms.

Patone for bringing that to our attention uh and to Mr.

Raish for um uh offering his partnership uh in the city's uh continuance of of uh looking at those projects.

So uh we will I guess we'll all stay tuned on that.

All right, not seeing any further questions on our side.

Um, Councilor Klingon, I will turn it back to you.

Thank you, Chair Baton.

And um Director H, did you just say what schools were needed?

I know because the Healy School needs a roof, right?

Yeah, uh he uh so the the West Healy and uh the Kennedy school um are all in the queue.

Uh the West is further along um in terms of design, and we don't want to wait on it.

Um so I think we would proceed with that project without MSBA assistance, but we could cue up um either or both of the Healy and the uh Kennedy uh in the MSBA accelerated repair program.

Awesome.

All right.

Uh anything else on this item.

I don't see any hands.

Um Kansas Said, I'm gonna work complete this one and then um you're gonna give them to it July 1st, this time for real July first.

So somebody's gonna be in trouble.

You're lucky she didn't put 2025 on there.

Oh, turning it back over to the school committee.

I see uh Dr.

Phillips has her hand up.

Thank you, Dr.

Phillips.

Go ahead.

Thanks, Fury Chair.

Just wanted to flag for um counselor Saeed, you probably know this, but the most up-to-date contract with the SEU is online, so you could pull right from there for your order.

Yes, thank you.

So council say it's okay to work complete this one.

You're gonna uh yes, I will put in a new order, and uh this time we will do it in February.

We'll have uh written a report in July.

Uh thanks everyone.

I really appreciate um our colleagues on the school committee and our partnership on this.

And by the way, yeah, that definitely did uh Ms.

Patone, that definitely did fall within this.

I mean, this whole committee was started out of COVID and all of the failing the systems and the issues that we found, but the uh ventilation systems um is why we ended up with this committee to start with.

So definitely definitely fell within that order there.

Um this is uh uh this one.

So I'll read it into the record.

Uh ID number 251455 that from Council Strezzo, Davis, Wilson, Saeed, that the director of health and human services informed this council on which buildings have menstrual products available and which school buildings have inoperable venture product dispensers and when they are scheduled to be replaced.

We did discuss this one last time, and I'm not sure how it stayed on the um in the box.

Um we were told there was a memo, and we were told that none of them were inoperable as far as the school uh department uh as far as the DPW was concerned, or director Carroll.

Um, and that um yeah, everything's supposed to be in working order and that they're replacing them regularly.

And so I'm not sure where the reports to the contrary came from, but um, you know, that's what I have on that one.

And I see I'm gonna turn over to the school committee side unless anybody has any questions on this one.

Counselor Davis, no, counselor.

Okay.

Um Chair Tom.

Thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um back on my notes on this, uh I recall we had questions about the frequency of restocking, and also uh about uh the Argenziano where there are no gender neutral bathrooms.

Um and looking at questions about um access to menstrual products for uh people who would want to get them from gender neutral bathrooms.

Um so those were the questions I had listed.

And um I see Ms.

Barry uh has her hand raised.

So go to you, Miss Barry.

Just for clarification though, just so I like I and I do remember that now that you're saying that, but we so but specifically on this item, like those issues were addressed.

So like the questions that you just raised are a little different, but it certainly falls within.

So I mean, if there's any updates and any answers on that, um, thank you, Chair Klingon.

And I think we had made the decision at that time to keep it in committee to get the answers to these particular questions.

Um, but I'm fine with it being uh a new item and how we deal with this in the future.

So all the same for me.

I think um Miss Barry had put her hand up.

Yep, thank you.

Maybe there's Barry.

Hi, thank you for you, Chair.

Um, so I do have a little bit of an update from the director um of the health school health services, Liz Cortiello.

Um, she is reporting that Citron refills East Somerville every 56 days and refills Winter Hill every 28 days.

Um, she's saying the difference between the two is uh Winter Hill was part um of a pilot for the city buildings, and that is on the same schedule as libraries, et cetera, like city buildings.

Um the her department opted for a less expensive option at the east because it was a new program that they were running and they wanted to see how it was going to work in the school.

Um she's reporting that the custodians fill all the other dispensers.

So it her team depends on the custodians to and school administration to let them know if products need to be ordered when they're running low.

Um so far when I've spot checked the buildings, there has not been any issues.

Usually they're at least three quarters of the way filled and operable.

Um and then as far as the Agenziano, there was a dispenser installed in the gender neutral bathroom there.

So that was the only school that the gender neutral bathroom didn't have one, and now it is installed.

Great.

Thank you for that update.

And that is good news.

Uh so it's the program seems to be going in the right direction.

Yeah, uh that sounds great.

Um Dr.

Phillips, did you have your hand up?

No longer, Ms.

Barry answered it.

Thank you.

All right, there we are.

Okay.

Um thanks for that concise update.

And um, I'm good with closing this one out, Chair Clingon.

Thank you, uh Chair Baton.

Ms.

Barry, um, is that in like a like a report form or because when I give the well, did you get those notes?

Um Madam Clerk.

Because when I report on at the meeting, I want to make sure that Council Strezzo um I don't want to forget any of the details that we just heard.

Yes, I do have the notes, but doesn't look like we have any kind of memo or anything yet.

No, no, it's okay.

I mean, I don't think Miss Barry was, you know, need new to submit a memo or something, but um, but as long as you just got what she just said, that most of the details of what she just said for the minutes.

We are all set.

All right.

Yeah, in the future, you can just if you want, Ms.

Barry, you can just you know uh send it to the clerk to attach to an item if you have information on an item, and we'll get it attached to the to the um agenda.

Well do, thank you.

No problem.

All right.

So item number six were complete.

Moving on to it number seven from Councillor Davis of the director of infrastructure and asset management update this council on how the foundation at the Brown School is monitored, whether mitigation is required to address any concerns, and if so, the details of those mitigation plans.

Uh I'm gonna turn over to Council Davis right away.

He might have some more uh more setup for this one.

Go ahead, Council Davis.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

This is just this is uh uh something that came up in school committee uh a little while back.

So I submitted it uh through my role and sitting on the school committee.

Um and uh it was just noted that there's uh what what what looks like something that might be uh uh notable um to the eye, but I thought we'd get the get the inside scoop and just make sure folks understand what we're um you know what the status is, how we're monitored, what what it might mean and all that.

Um so that's the intent of the item.

Yeah, so just just to ask the the straightforward question is there a known issue in the foundation?

I mean, I've heard rumors of a crack in the foundation.

I can say that.

Yeah, well, there's through the chair, there's more than rumors.

There's visual evidence of a clerk crack in the foundation.

Right.

Take it away, director.

Which has been there for for a while.

I'll actually uh turn it over to uh capital projects director Ralph Henry um to to give the uh detail on this one.

Excellent.

Thanks, Rich.

Uh, through the chair.

Yeah, the existing crack that has been there for for quite some time, has opened up whatever mortar or caulking material was placed inside of it, has fallen away and eroded out of the it's basically a sawtooth crack that kind of descends from one edge of the where it begins and drops down into the lower part of that brick facade that's in that corner where the tree is located.

So we just received a purchase order for a contractor who's gonna go in and and fill that and just put some back a rod and some uh mortar or some uh more elastic y type type of caulking material in there to close it up.

But we we actually monitor it every quarter.

Uh one of our staff, Kevin Hatcher that works up at the Summerville High School, uh Green Buildings Manager, he goes down to the site, and usually um I can try to join it depending on our schedules.

But we check all the different gauges that are in the brown school to look at them and compare them to photographs that we've been gathering now on our own for the last two and a half years, uh, along with looking at some of the historical photographs that were there.

So you know it's there, it it opened up a little bit basically because the material fell out.

Um and you know, we're gonna be filling it back in for two big reasons.

One is to keep water out, and the other is for pests.

Uh it would be a very likely source for um little four-legged friends to find some warmth and shelter.

Okay.

Um I'm gonna turn over to Councillor Davis, but I am just gonna ask a quick question of Director H or whoever.

Um I mean, I don't know, I don't know buildings, I don't know how these things work, but I mean, you know, he's saying it's been there for a while.

Is it just due to like the ground shifting or like when they, you know, when we're pile driving a few blocks away for a building or something, or like building a T.

Uh, you know, is there anything specific that maybe crack caused the crack, or is it just age or yeah, through through through the chair, generally it's age.

Um, that particular crack and a couple of the other ones, uh we don't have a definitive answer and probably wouldn't until we uh rip down the building.

But the um the the prevailing theory is that the roots from that very large tree um are causing stress on that corner of the foundation uh and and have uh pushed it.

And this has been uh evident for a very long time.

Um, the the internal cracks is as uh director Henry says, we've been monitoring them for a long time.

They they we we're now monitoring them on a quarterly basis, and it's uh kind of fascinating because we will notice that they do drift back and forth over the course of the season, um, almost as it goes hot and cold.

Uh that crack in the foundation has been there for a while, and and mostly because that one's external, uh, and is uh uh director Henry points out, you know, it if if we've got water in it with freezing and thawing, it would get worse, or or a uh a critter could get in there.

So that that external one is is being patched.

It's not a structural concern, it's just uh uh you know uh elements and uh pest concern from the outside.

Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say.

I mean, you guys know buildings.

Here you are talking about cracks, like you know, like it's no biggie.

Uh just assure the folks watching or anybody listening to this that uh you know the there's no cause for alarm in terms of structural safety or that is correct, Chair.

We've had several different uh structural engineers and geotech engineers look at this, and um none of them have raised any uh cause for alarm, uh particularly given the the monitoring and what we've been seeing with it.

So it's we don't have any concerns in that front.

Council Davis, take it away then.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

That was my question exactly.

Just confirmed that there's nothing nothing imminent that uh should raise any concerns or anything like that.

So appreciate the very detailed response.

Um I got nothing further on.

Uh one more quick question for Chairman.

When did you do you have a data when you first identified the crack?

Like was that crack there when I went to the brown uh first evidence we have is uh is a report from is it 2012?

I was there in 85, so yeah, so uh but but it had been there for a very long time.

So that's so the first report that that we have available to us um is from 2012.

Um and it had been noted that it had been there for a very long time.

Um and that's when the gauges were installed.

So you know, we we it it had been monitored for um a good period of time and then monitoring of it fell off and and we've restarted uh the monitoring with the past couple of years.

That's all from us.

Uh I'm seeing counselor Saidi with any hand up.

Uh turn it over to you to Chair Batone.

Uh thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um so I I hear, I hear you that this is not a um a structural concern.

Um given that this has been an issue since at least 2012.

Um I am wondering uh whether there is a mitigation plan that has been developed.

Um presumably that tree uh has not learned a lesson um around what is a permissible space to grow into.

Um I certainly support uh all of our green uh residents, uh, but I do want them to play nicely with our our structures, um especially those that house important educational um uh activities like our schools.

So that's one question, and I'll I'll just pause there and see if you have any response.

Yeah, I mean the the plan is the monitoring, um and and the fact that we've got that constant monitoring and are not seeing any um drift uh or permanent drift there.

Um yes, the the structural engineers and geotech engineers recommended that we uh chop down that tree immediately, but um that was several years ago.

Uh and and uh nothing has um uh grown in the wrong direction.

Um so I think the the best plan is to continue to monitor, and if we see permanent um deflection in there, then have the discussion around that tree.

Okay, I appreciate that.

Um the second thing I'll I'll raise, and and this, you know, again, trees grow slowly, buildings uh uh if everything is working right, have gradual uh uh I don't know, issues that come to light over time.

Um and my tenure on the school committee is only um you know two years at this point.

So you know, I I certainly don't um have a long memory on this stuff.

But uh I will say that it would be very helpful to have schools brought in on this uh and to see copies of those reports, which are happening, I guess, quarterly.

Um so if you could please loop us in and make sure our school administration, um Miss Barry is on here now.

Um, and and I I think making sure that she and uh uh others are looped in so we have awareness on how this is going, what the status is, um, any issues so that we're not um uh caught on our back foots here.

That would really be helpful.

Yeah, to the chair and to the chair.

I think that that's the most expeditious way um is for us to share those quarterly reports uh with Miss Barry.

Um, and then they can get encapsulated in the in the superintendent's report or or something like that, just for streaming purposes.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I appreciate both of you um uh making note of that.

Okay, um Ms.

Patone.

Oops.

Oh, she is talking to me through the chair.

This is Laura.

Um I'm sorry, I just keep going in and out.

Um track is not the best source of uh Wi-Fi connectivity.

Um I just wanted to bring up that this someone a constituent sent me the photo of the the gap.

And I've seen it before.

I I I live in the area.

And is there a way that the city might want to make this information that you're sharing it with the body more public in some way?

Um I'm not implying sign next to the crack is the right answer, but is there a way to make information that it's being for an alarm?

We've had it evaluated from strict for a structural safety standpoint, so that people don't find the building and and get anxious or feel concerned or stay on the website that acknowledges that we know we have this structural um this crack and we this is what we're doing about it.

And so that if school committee members or city councillors or even parents see this, that the the principal has some place to send people to, or like I said, it could be a sign.

I have no idea what you would think is the best practice, but some way to make this information more public.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

So we'll turn it back over to you, Chair Clinton.

Okay.

Well, I I would just say uh to Director Rach that you know something like that and those reports or what have you would be the type of thing, you know, I know we're still fleshing out what this public facing website is for the projects at the schools, whether that's the bigger things, like I've talked about Chelsea, where they might say, you know, the Browns scheduled to get or whatever this school scheduled to get a new chiller, but it could be down to smaller things as well.

Um if we did have everything, you know, all this information house and in one location, that might be something now that might be a good place for it.

Again, I don't know what like who's working on that or when I know that you guys are all busy, and I I know um uh as far as building out like this is gonna be I guess we need somebody on your side or you know, the city side to to kind of flesh out what it the where is the folks want to see on on a website in terms of and again, this is all coming out of the same reason this committee was born, which is you know knowing what's going on at the schools um you know, in some sort of regular fashion, uh Council Davis.

Did you have to thank you, Ms.

Chair?

I raised my hand and realized I should lower my hand and let the administration answer first because they know better than that.

But I was just gonna note that we heard in school committee last week, I think.

Um presentation by the the new um communications director, I guess.

Um that you know was uh I see sort of one piece of many improvements that I think we're making citywide to to you know to address exactly that type of consideration.

And so um school district website uh you know will will be improved as good as it is already, um certainly could be better, and and they're there in that's in the works.

And I think we've already heard um in this committee a few a while back, I believe, you know, about the you know, the very robust um you know um maintenance uh system that the the folks at DPW uh are putting together.

So um my hope is that sort of that's kind of already in the works and those pieces eventually will indeed be connected up um and that that's our already in in the works.

But I I I agree with you and that that is you know that that's the kind of thing, and with um the the member who who raised it that that's the kind of thing that would be great to um to have.

And so my my hope is that as we um as all of these systems are improved that uh you know it to whatever extent they're not already, um we can we can connect those dots so that yeah, the public has all that information.

Yeah, it just seems like one of those things where it's one of those like everybody's on the same page and everybody has ideas and information, like they did hire the new um security facilities, um liaison.

Um so now she's coordinating with the city, and it's just how do we get everybody in the same place and just get you know the information to the public uh as far as their school buildings go.

Um on that, Director Rage.

Uh through the chair, uh everything President Davis said is is correct.

A lot of these things are in motion.

Uh moreover, in uh the transition meeting that I had with uh Mayor Alex uh Wilson's team, uh I mentioned this as one of three focus areas um that we need to prioritize uh in the early days of uh the Wilson administration.

So I I hope to make some headway.

Excellent.

Yeah, and um I think Council Said had a an order in before.

Um I thought I put everything on the on the on the agenda.

I think we maybe need to resubmit it, but it was around you know the the progress of that.

So but the new new year coming, and you know we'll yeah, we'll definitely be uh this will be a priority for sure of this committee uh in 2026.

All right.

Um moving on to item number eight.

Also from Counselor Davis for from the school committee and others, uh parents, but the administration, the school department discussed with this council the budgetary and planning impact of snow days and how adaptation to climate change may affect future snow day planning.

Um I did have a brief discussion with Liaison uh Rodisi.

Um this, you know, this is this is kind of how how do you want to approach this?

I don't know.

Uh Liaison Radici, I know you're not ready.

The city's not ready to have a robust response, but um and I know that going into snow days, it's a joint decision with well, it's a DBW commissioner who's on that call.

Um they they have a system.

Um if I may but I think it might be impacts.

On the side of if if you don't mind.

Yeah.

Um thank you, Mr.

Yeah, through you um to the committees.

Um yeah, so this one um came out of a uh sort of a question that was raised by member um green um in a discussion a couple weeks ago, I guess.

And and I I have the the pleasure of of sitting next to uh Chair Baton uh at school committee meetings.

And so we sort of workshopped what what what's the question here we're trying to sort of put to the administration and I and I had a similar conversation then with Leozan Radazi um uh try to express that.

I I'm happy also to defer to uh to the good chair of the school committee subcommittee um you know to further articulate what sort of the request was here.

But my sort of my understanding was just you know, as we look at budgeting for various things, particularly snow removal, uh, and as we we you know live with and realize the impact of climate change.

Um is there uh is there anything we should be thinking about?

I think was the the you know the the crux of it.

Um just sort of an intent to kind of put that question out there, hopefully ahead of time um for this year, next year, four years from now, uh, whatever the case may be, just in terms of um, you know, anything we should be doing or thinking about now, because um, you know, snow budgeting is certainly related to um the way our climate is evolving and changing.

So um that that's that's sort of what we're getting for there.

It's not really a real easy question.

The answer might be maybe we don't know yet, but thanks for thanks for flagging it, and we'll keep it in mind, right?

That that could be the right answer, right?

Um, but I as I said, I I threw you, Mr.

Chair, I'm happy to defer to Chair Baton if there's anything uh a better articulation of the question or anything else that um he might add.

Yeah, yeah, because before we do that, I mean, you know, it depends on which direction you're talking about.

I mean, the last three years we we haven't had a real lot of snowstorms, but yet somehow I I want to say that the the plowing budget was still we still somehow you like had to appropriate more money or something.

So it's all yeah.

Well, can I on that, Mr.

Chair?

Yes.

Just just so yeah.

So for for uh my understanding of this, and anyone in the administration or who does math better than me in numbers and everything, could please jump in.

But my understanding of of that is that um uh a at least some part of that uh of you know why we see that phenomenon happening is that um the state budgeting rules uh permit municipalities to um to effectively um I can't even think what the right word is to um any budget overrides can be amortized over our future years, right?

So you unlike other items like pothole repair.

Um snow plowing is something that you know we don't necessarily have to budget it super conservatively, and so you can budget what might be reasonable, and if you do go over that cost can be amortized, it can be sort of handled a little bit.

It's a little more flexibility there.

That that's that was how it was explained to me a couple years back when it's like we hardly had any snow.

How are we over the budget?

So that that's my understanding of it, why we might be seeing that.

But to your point, you certainly, yeah, there's climate change means lots of change, not necessarily one direction or the other, but I think the question was to you know flag it for something that we might need to consider at some point.

Well, that's just why I why it triggers it me when I see budgetary, but there may be a piece on the school side in terms of budgetary that I'm that I'm not aware of.

Um so you know with that, and then also uh just um yeah, so I don't know.

Maybe I I like to uh have um Chair Baton add to what you had said.

Oh thank you, Chair Klingon.

Um, and I I really have very little to add to uh Counselor Davis's excellent summary of our conversation.

Um it really did come out of uh a prompt of uh I think in fact we may have been talking about our school calendar, um uh and thinking about snow days, and that may have uh morphed into a conversation about snow removal and um you know, thinking about uh uh how projections of uh climate change have us uh receiving less in some models and more in other models of um uh snow and ice uh uh and you know, there's really um with more moisture in the air from from a warming climate, we may actually get more precipitation.

So uh there's there's a lot of complexities around this.

And uh I I do hope our uh our city staff are thinking about this um more cogently than I am.

Um so I would be very interested.

And I see Commissioner Lathan has her hand up, so I'm happy to defer to her about uh this conversation.

Hi there, uh Jill Latin, Commissioner DPW, hello committee.

I just kind of want to give you guys some context about snow removal and budget budget stuff.

So when we it doesn't really necessarily equate to a budgetary number and the amount of snow we got through the season.

So anytime we have any sort of snow event coming, we have to be prepared.

And a part of that being prepared is is planning and making sure that we have the contractors and the vendors and the staff on site and ready, because in New England, it may be forecasted for two inches and then we get four, or maybe forecast it for six inches and we get two.

We still have to be ready regardless.

And so the reason why we've been so successful in Somerville is that we really have cultivated a strong group of vendors, snow removal vendors and staff members who are trained to kind of remove snow.

So a lot of time, you know, a lot of times like we don't want to lose a snow vendor to another town uh because you know, we didn't call them in and we didn't have them ready, or we didn't maybe participate.

We have snow drills every single year, the Sunday for Thanksgiving.

We bring in all of our vendors, we bring in all of our snow our internal pile drivers, and we actually practice our routes and we practice because there's always new infrastructure, new bike lanes, new bump outs, and everyone has to kind of get familiar, re-familiarize themselves with the city of Somerville in our in our snow, our snow needs.

This is why again, we're so successful.

So I just want to make sure people understand, you know, if you see a high number of of a snow budget and we say, oh, it didn't sell that much, we still have to be ready and prepared to do our due diligence.

Also, this significant amount of both the community path and ice and things like that, bus stops.

We we are very diligent and very invested, making sure that everyone here in Somerville can get around and with mobility, whether they're walking, biking, taking bus or using their car.

Also keep in mind, unfortunately, summer goals are passed through for many commuters.

And you know, as people pass through Somerville, it's vastly different than other communities are coming from trying to get through Somerville.

So I just want to give people some context of snow removal and how complex it is.

Um, just so everyone has understanding about the budget and snow and how we kind of do that here at DPW.

Great.

If I could just take a moment to thank you and your staff, Commissioner Lathan, uh, for the important work that you do that keeps our students and families, well, thinking about that on our side, uh, but all of our residents safe uh during the inclement weather season and year-round.

Um so that is um uh very important work and um you know foundational to uh what we want to do here in in Somerville.

So thanks for that.

Chair Klingon.

Thank you.

Yeah, and thank you, Commissioner, for the context.

That's kind of what I was getting at is that like snow operations.

It's it's it's near impossible to figure out, like you said, well, you know, in terms of budgeting um, because of the fact that we have to have everybody at the ready.

Um still needs to go down, contracts are still out there.

Um I guess the just because I usually get really technical with these council orders, um you know, the second line about how it may affect future snow day planning.

I don't know if there's anybody that can speak to that um or why what that piece of this item is ref like is referring to um because you know what, Commissioner, maybe you can can you just speak to the uh for instance the the snow day, you know, when you when you you all do get together and huddle and call a snow day, it usually coincides with the snow emergency, right?

Or can you just explain that process real quick?

I might just kind of speak to that and then we can move on.

Yes, who the chairs.

Um so when we look at the forecasts, and you know, during this time of the year, we're always looking at various forecasts.

We have different um subscriptions that we have uh to look at the weather.

Um also, you know, total tune into our local weather news.

Um, everyone's sometimes it's a big guessing game.

Um we also have part of the Massachusetts National National Weather Service, and we get those updates and briefings.

So anytime there's something that we that's being forecasted, that's gonna be over four inches.

That's when we lean towards calling a snow emergency.

So I will call uh snow emergency meeting or snow event meeting, and we'll sit down and talk about this is what the forecast looks like and the schools involved with those meetings as well as the other departments, such as mobility and engineering, um, parks and rec libraries, communication, um, traffic and parking.

Um, we're always helping human services.

Well, we're kind of on that meeting, and I'll kind of give a briefing about this is what we're forecasting.

This is what this is what's then if this is what's coming in, and this is where the time is going to kind of land for us.

We kind of have to call snow emergency to get people time to move their cars because if that means we've got to start towing towing operation.

So sometimes, you know, ideally, you know, snow's coming in at 8 p.m.

You want to make sure you get that snow emergency call by two so people can move their cars or four hours before that.

Sometimes you just don't have the luxury with you know that it's coming in.

Sometimes that may not come in until you know one or two in the morning.

And so we're like, we still gotta call we still gotta get cars off the road when people come home from work, those kind of things.

So that's kind of how we can, it's just kind of like we do our best.

There's been times recently, like a couple years ago, we had called a snow emergency, and it was supposed to be like you know, six at eight, six, six or so ranches coming in.

Um, probably about around some of which you got called cars shrunk in, towed like around 10:30.

Um, I look at the weather forecast and all of a sudden a big update.

It shifted completely.

It was gonna be like less than two inches.

They're like, oh, stop, stop towing right now.

And so I have to you know, call the manager's office and say, I need to call this off right now.

It is just shifted.

We're not gonna get nearly as much snow as we need to.

Um, and we stopped towing towing in meetings.

So sometimes we can do that, and sometimes we just can't.

So um, like I said, we really work with the school system and kind of give them as much snow as we can.

Sometimes we have to do a closure based on when the snow is coming in or the ice is coming in.

And if that's gonna be in the smack dab in the middle of school starting or school being dismissed, and the health and safety of those students, uh, we'll err on the side of caution every single time.

If we cannot get ahead of the storm before kids need to get to school, kids need to get home from school.

Um, we we will recommend closure for that reason to give our crews time to be out there and plow and south and saw them make sure that they can get to school and get home spaces in school.

So that's kind of how we do that.

But it's uh it's a long season for us, but we we love it.

We we we continue to want to get better and do it well.

Um, but we also were pretty transparent in how we communicate to a city and to the school district.

But Chris, just so I'm clear, not every snow day is directly tied to a snow emergency, but every time there's a snow emergency, there's gonna be a snow day for school.

Through the chair, most likely.

If we're calling a snow emergency, that means it's gonna be a significant amount of snow.

Um, and we're gonna be recommending that that the doing the park even park out this year and the schools are closed.

But sometimes the schools could end up closed, but there is no snow emergency.

And so it depends on the way the snow is coming in.

Exactly.

So if we have a heavy band of snow that's gonna be hitting us, you know, um, say today, maybe hit us at you know one o'clock whatever schoolmates choose to end early.

That's all that's on the school department.

Um but when you but I guess the direct tie is when you call a snow emergency, that forces the schools then have to call a snow day.

See the chair, yes.

But otherwise it's up to the schools, like if they you can advise them, but if like say there is no emergency, but they still want to either close the school or not close the school.

Do the chair, yeah.

We try and get as much information as possible when the storm is coming in, how much is gonna be there?

I send out regular weather reports this time of year.

Uh that gives the temperature, it gives the pavement temperature, it gives what's coming, what's forecast.

I highlight those weather forecasts and that the school gets so they can kind of see this is the timing of stuff to help them make the best decisions they can.

So uh like I said, I use a system called Weatherworks, and they give me daily weather reports.

And this time of year, I will send weather updates pretty regularly, sometimes two or three times a day to make sure the school is updated on what's happening.

And Danielle, I see your nodding your head.

So, yeah.

Turning it back over to uh school committee, Chair Baton.

Thank you.

Dr.

Phillips, go ahead.

Thank you, Surrey Chair.

Sorry.

I'm just thank you for this great presentation and all the work that you do um to keep our kids and our families and our educators and everyone safe.

My understanding was that a few years ago we severed the link between an automatic snow emergency and a school closure by not letting people park in the school parking lots.

Is that true still?

Through the chair, yes.

We have we closed those lots because we've got to be able to uh clear those lots and get those lots via safely open for school operations uh the next school operation day.

So uh that's now no longer an option.

Um we kiss we have to make sure those lots are clear so we can do the proper show and so you're so people so people can park, kids can play, and the schools can be reopened.

So you're saying the opposite of what I was thinking was wrong.

We actually do have that link still.

When we call a snow emergency, we close the schools because we need to let people park in those lots.

Or am I totally wrong?

No, screw the chair.

We close the lots, no one can park in those lots.

We get the gate and close.

There, and if they there's cars in there, they get towed.

Thank you.

Thank you, Dr.

Phillips.

Uh seeing no other questions on our side.

Sure, Clean, turn it back to you.

All right.

Uh Madam Clerk, if you could just uh work complete this item.

Moving on to our last item, item number nine from the uh Council Davis and folks of the commissioner of public works provide an update on how snow and ice is removed from different types of surfaces in schoolyards, including any limitations based on surface type.

Um I'll just say real quick before I turn to you, Council Davis.

I was actually thinking about this earlier because I've always I understand the challenge, and you can read there's a great memo attached, and we have a lot of poor rubberized stuff.

But I was trying to think about what it was like when I was a kid going to school in Somerville, and then I realized that there were no play structures in the schoolyards when I was a kid.

It was all yards.

It was like you're either playing basketball, punch ball, kickball, four squares.

Like there was no there was no play structures like there are now.

So that that was the difference there.

But now that we have these play structures, I think it drives the lunch aids crazy.

Oh, whoever's monitoring the kids outside crazy because you know they're the kids actually want to go on the play structures, and I'm not even sure what they do with the procedure is if they're not even allowed to go outside now or what.

Uh that that's that's something that's unknown to me.

Uh Council Davis, you put this one in if you want to set it up.

Sure, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, as you noted, yes, another item that came uh through discussion from school committee.

Um, so and I certainly will defer to my colleagues on the school committee um for further detail on this.

Um, but uh you know, as you noted, yeah, the the issue seems to be now with the um you know new safety uh surfaces that we have to make it softer when kids bounce uh or when kids hit that that surface after falling off the juggle jibber, whatever the case may be.

Um I apparently creates a bit of a challenge to uh to clear it safely or within warranty or whatever else the case may be.

So um I I'd like to to you know uh at least through you to uh the members of the the school committee subcommittee.

Yeah, if there's any further detail or clarification on on the challenges, whether that's the the playgrounds are not open or or you know any more detail on what the challenge here was.

As I said, I I submitted this because it did come up in that meeting.

Um, but I don't have the firsthand experience that my uh good colleagues on the school committee do.

All right, uh I'll take that cue uh and pass it to Dr.

Phillips, who has the first question.

Thanks through you, Chair.

Um, I think what folks have been doing, right?

So when there's a lot of snow on the playground, it really Ms.

Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but it varies school to school a little bit.

But at Argenziana, where my kids go, we can't play on any of the play structure if there's snow under it.

It's just not allowed.

And so what the PTAs have done is really organize shoveling as much as they can, as often as they can without metal tipped shovels, but people are hand shoveling and they're finding it's unsustainable.

And so I think this comes up over and over again.

I think it partially is coming up because of the Kennedy School playground that folks right were visioning now and wanting to put in a surface there that then can be shoveled if it does indeed snow.

One question that I've been asked to raise here.

Um, and so Commissioner Lathan, I apologize, but um the PTAs have discovered that a powered snow brush is approved for use on crumb rubber.

And I'm wondering, do any of our neighbor communities have one that we could borrow and try out?

I hear they're pretty expensive, but it will be good to know if that's a solution for us.

I just have to say any kind of shoveling, whether with a weather tip or not, is damaging the surface.

That is nowhere around.

And even though so volunteers, when they do blow out and do that kind of removal, it is damaging the surface.

And so um, unfortunately, um just because of the orbit settings we're in and the type of the play surfaces we have in need that we need in this in the city, such as Somerville to have these kind of incredible playgrounds and surfaces.

Um, there's no way around us removing snow from these areas without damaging the surface.

There's going to be these surfaces are extremely pricey to replace.

Uh, sometimes you look at a school like East Um East Somerville, that they have some significant damage to that surface.

Then we're going to have to look at capital and work with PSAF to see how it's going to happen.

There's still there's damage to that surface as well.

I mean to continue to look at and monitor, see what we can get ahead of so the complete resurface years down the road.

But um that surface has some damage as well.

So um it's just kind of those one of those things that we'll continue working with in the city.

Um, I understand you know, the aims for folks not being able to use the playground.

Um I'd rather I'd like to, you know, how ways can we be creative but working with different schools in doing you know snow programming, whether that's what's working with parks and records and creative programming ideas, um, but from a DPW's perspective, um we just without causing damage to our surfaces in future taxpayer money expenditures there's no more terms.

I'm sorry to be very bad news, but I don't want to pretend like that we have some great grand idea that we can never bring to life.

Uh Dr.

Phillips, you have a follow-up.

Yeah, thank you.

Thanks for that, Commissioner Lathan.

I hear you, and I think the PTA hears you too, because what they're really wanting me to ask about is um can the city borrow or find or try a powered snow brush, which does not have metal and seems like you can use it on crumb rubber, or give me some information or share with them some information about why that's not a solution for our playgrounds.

So the chair, those brushes are made for synthetic turf surfaces.

So those blades of plastic that's underneath that what's that infill.

So you have the in you have the padding, you have the infill, which is the crumb rubber, whatever it is, and you have those blades of movable plastic.

Those brushes are made to kind of break up that movable plastic brass things.

That's not what a play surface is.

That is that that rubberized surface that's not had the movable kind of blades of plastic that the infills set into.

So that kind of brush is just kind of basically if you would take that same brush and go over you over a newly polished uh floor in your home to pick up, you know, uh dust and materials that school that the kids have spilled, it's just not going to do what you think it's going to do, but eventually just continue to scratch your hardwood floors.

Thank you.

All right.

Um thanks, Dr.

Phillips.

I I will just take this um opportunity.

I think I was getting a lot of the same feedback Dr.

Phillips was getting um uh both about the the questions about the powered brush.

So thank you for um uh shedding some light on that.

Um I think what uh, and there was a lot of terrific, very detailed information in your memo, Commissioner Lathan, about the different surfaces really responsive to our question, right?

What is the snow removal?

Um and clerk, if I could ask you to zoom in on that, um, on that memo there, thank you.

Um what are the different types of surfaces?

How do we remove snow from these surfaces on schoolyards?

Uh the answer for many types of surfaces according to the memo is we can't do it.

Um we can't do it without voiding the warranty.

We can't do it without damaging the surface.

Um in the context of us building a new uh or designing a new school yard uh at the Kennedy, it really begs the question of you know what type of schoolyard do we want to design so that it can be accessible to our children during the school day year-round, right?

We have policies in our schools that um uh encourage outdoor play as part of the learning environment, uh uh where children need to be active and ensure that they can use the outdoor learning environment in addition to the indoor learning environment, uh, to further our school's educational goals for the for the students.

Um, I think when we are designing structures, um and maybe this is a question then for um uh I'm forgetting the name of the department, um, but the department that designs uh schoolyards, um that we need to be cognizant of what surfaces actually can allow for removal of snow and ice.

Now we are at the tail end of a cycle of removing, I'm sorry, of redesigning schoolyards, right?

a question then for um uh our i'm forgetting the name of the department um but the department that designs uh schoolyards um that we need to be cognizant of what surfaces actually can allow for removal of snow and ice now we are at the tail end of a cycle of removing i'm sorry of of redesigning school yards right the kennedy i think is is pretty much uh the last of the schoolyards that are undergoing a redesign and and uh uh rebuilding so that they are modern inclusive and uh uh uh fully engaging schoolyards that further our educational goals for the students um but if the school yards are then unavailable during the school day for our students that really poses a significant problem right why are we doing all this great work i mean again it may only be a few days a year where this is the case where these uh schoolyards are not available but um uh i think we really need to focus on what we are designing the schoolyards for which is for the use of our students during the school day that should be the primary focus um and if there is anything we can do to ensure that those schoolyards remain open when school is open so that students can access those uh that outdoor learning environment by golly we should be doing that um all right i'm gonna get off my soapbox i i tend to climb onto it um uh so and i see uh liaison wordasi has her hand up so i will divert her thank you mr chair i actually did watch the school committee meeting where this was discussed so i had a feeling this might come up um so i did connect with piece of before this meeting to get some information from them um so from piece playgrounds and school yards have a required six foot fall zone around play equipment um and so this fall zone is composed of this poured in place rubber surfacing or an engineered wood fiber referred to commonly referred to as fi bar and these are the materials that are used because they are compliant with the American with disabilities act and because they have the required shock absorbency for these play for playgrounds um and then they also wanted to note that when they are going through the design process for planning these schoolyards and playgrounds that there is an overwhelming desire from residents for poured in place and synthetic turf turf fields so just wanted to share that information thank you for that go ahead nope go ahead oh thank you for that yeah so you know just a couple of quick comments on this issue um one is that um poured in place rubber i mean you know what if you do I've been doing a little research online and it seems like um the rubberized playground like mats the flooring like the tiles I think they still have the the amount of shock absorber but they're a lot more as a surface they're a lot more um uh durable in terms of like shoveling and stuff like that um but I guess the issue this also runs into is for Jill um for commissioner lath and it's like I don't know if it's a union thing like who would be in charge of those playground the schoolyards would it be the school janitors or it would be her people and you know what kind of labor would be looking at for that but but that aside if the if in the case of volunteers I mean I agree that I think we should be trying to design parks that are usable um you know throughout the year.

And if that means if there is another surface that is more durable like a hero piece I'm saying but I do see pictures and things about uh the the rubberized tiles.

We have met some of our parks some of the older ones but uh the rubberized tiles um like maybe those are another option and it's just something we we I think we should think about or look into going forward if there is another option.

So I agree with what um my counterproximal spooky saying the last thing I'll say as maybe a potentially you know even better than the brush is uh like a leaf blower like uh for certain types of snow I think you could probably just leave leaf blow the snow right away and that wouldn't hurt anything um so again I know that poses labor challenges but I'm just gonna say that like that's what comes to my mind in terms of um you know as an option to to move snow without harm in the surface um and again it wouldn't be for like heavier wet snow um although if one's powerful enough I mean you could definitely get it off the because because I'm trying to figure out if it's just the ground or if we would have to clear off the place structures themselves and that would be really tricky.

So you're just talking about just the they're still allowed to go on them if all right chairman go ahead if you have the answer to that.

No uh sorry I don't mean to cut you off um I don't have an answer to your question.

So if the snow's on the play structures, they're still not going to be able to go on those.

That's right.

And you know, I my expectation.

I've always thought it's like, why bother with you know, because if you can't go on the play structure.

No, I I think you know the con, and I don't want to put words in my colleagues' mouth, but I think speaking for myself, I'm thinking about the the outdoor areas that we have, independent of you know the monkey bars.

I'm not asking uh that that we have DPW workers sort of brushing off every single bar on the monkey bars or anything like that.

That seems not safe or advisable.

Um I'm talking about clearing snow from the ground so our students can run around in the outdoor area um outside of all our schools uh yeah during recess because we still have recess and we still have outdoor recess, assuming it's you know, if it's listen, if it's 30 degrees and there's still snow on the ground, our students should be outside um by and large.

Yeah, no, that's that's helpful to know because I think you know that's the daunting part, I think, for probably DVW2 is like are they talking about every little staircase to each you know play structure, or you're talking about like kind of just leaving like a uh a six foot you know circle of snow around the play structure, but everywhere else in the schoolyard is accessible so that kids could potentially run around, you know, whatever, throw a football or something like that.

I mean, that would probably be a school case by case basis, just based on how much of the ground is you know, a rubber up poured in place rubber or whatever.

So I think we'd have to do like an audit, but uh of like each schoolyard, it sounds like and and kind of what that would look like.

But I mean, it sounds like there's a real desire from both parents and teachers um that this happens.

So this may, you know, I understand we may never be able to run a shovel over poured rubber, but if if we could tackle the other challenges, I think you know, sounds like that's what people want.

Okay.

And if I may if I may chair Clinton, yeah, no, um and I, you know, my suggestion is going to be, and I'll I'll submit uh something through uh counselor Davis, President Davis, um, to get further discussion, perhaps um in the upcoming uh calendar year on these questions around design, because and I don't think it's fair to ask Commissioner Latin uh how we exactly we should be designing uh the Kennedy or uh other future schoolyards.

Um but I do think that there's more um uh more nuanced conversation that we can have with um P Saf and you know sort of untangle some of these issues.

I had this crazy idea while we were talking about um heat the putting radiant heat under uh under the schoolyard to melt the snow.

I don't know if that would um you know be a possibility.

Um certainly easier to do to lay it uh while the schoolyard is being built uh rather than retrofitting.

So um just a crazy idea I had.

Uh, but I see Dr.

Phillips has her hand up.

Go ahead.

Thanks through you, Chair.

Uh so Ms.

Patone is listening in at Penn Station, but can't get into the Zoom.

So ask me to ask this question, which I believe is going through you, Chair to Ms.

Barry.

Um regarding snow removal, great information on and materials.

Is the joint committee interested in learning more about one?

Which schools are impacted by this constraint and how much?

How many areas are not accessible during snow?

Um and how because it can't be cleared or it's unsafe to use if it can't be cleared.

And the second question is how snow clearance can be factored in explicitly in the design of the new school building.

She says maybe it was for the high school or other buildings, but every time it feels like there's a surprise by the limitations of area use during snow in newer updated outdoor areas, and she's encouraging us to be as thoughtful and proactive as possible.

Yeah, I think everyone's interested in that.

You mean like who's gonna take up the lead?

Were you saying to Miss Barry?

Because maybe that's something she could kind of make a note of.

Sorry, I was just reading the question from Ms.

Patoma.

I think Ms.

Barry has the answer to the question, and I think we just need a city counselor to help us put in an order to get that answer in front of all of us.

So I guess Mr.

Davis and Mr.

Klingon, we're looking to you next year.

Okay.

We shall pursue this in 2026.

Let's hope uh we don't get any big snowstorms not about.

All right.

Anything else on this?

Any from anybody else?

Okay.

Um that brings us to the end of our agenda.

I'm gonna um uh we'll leave item nine uh in in committee.

Um questions um on any dispositions of any items.

Did you get all of them?

I was I don't believe we specifically said what we want to do with item number seven, ID 25-1637.

Do we want to leave that in committee or mark work complete?

Um that is work complete because that's I did say we're complete because that's um the the firm is gonna do up a report probably around May.

We should be expecting an update on that.

So we'll just bring it back in the spring.

All right.

If there's no more items, uh counselor Davis mo uh moves to adjourn.

We can get a roll call and adjournment when you're ready, madam.

Counselor Davis.

Yes.

Counselor Saeed.

Yes.

Chair Klingon.

Yes.

All right, with that is 749, and we are adjourning.

All right, so ready, thank you.

Thank you.

We are adjourned.

Have a good night.