Good evening, everybody.

Welcome to the first ever uh sustainability and infrastructure committee meeting.

I say this is the first um meeting because uh this is the combining of uh the current president has made some changes to some committees, and one of those is to combine uh open space environment and energy and public utility public works.

So um this would be the first uh meeting of that committee.

So welcome all.

Uh before we get into any agenda items, I'm gonna read uh this blurb that allows us to do this meeting remotely.

So pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025.

This meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation.

We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels.

Uh I am the chair of this committee, Jesse Klingon, and we have tonight clerking um Delaney.

I'm sorry, Clerk uh my last name is too much.

Just yeah, no clearly or Clerk Delaney, but my last name um is Fisher Cassio.

That's right.

Yeah.

All right, Madam Clerk.

Uh, and then we'd also have a substitution this evening.

Uh Councilor Scott had a uh conflict.

So we have Counselor Link in place of him.

Madam Clerk, could you please call the role to establish quorum?

Yep, this is roll call.

Counselor Hart.

Here.

Chair Klingon.

Present.

And subbing in for Counselor Scott, Counselor Link.

Here.

All right.

With that, we do have all members present.

So we have quorum.

All right, great.

Um, and then just some housekeeping.

Um, if you could just read um so items one and two are approval of uh minutes of the both of the previous um committees.

Uh the one number one would be the approval of the minutes of the public utility public works committee meeting from October 15th, 2025.

And I'm gonna take that up at the same time.

Do we we can yeah, we'll vote on both of these at the same time.

And then number two, approval of the minutes of the open space environment energy committee meeting of December 3rd, 2025.

Um can you call a roll and approval of those minutes, please, Madam Clerk?

Yep, on approval of um the minutes, items number one and two.

Counselor Hart.

Yes.

Chair Klingon.

Yes.

Counselor Link.

Yes.

All right, that is all votes in the affirmative.

Okay.

So we have a light agenda.

Um, you know, I just don't like things to languish in the box too much.

Uh, but there are a number uh five items sent for discussion to this committee.

Um should be a fairly quick meeting.

I've been asked to take a few items out of order.

We have uh interim commissioner Weissman here, DPW Commissioner Weissman, uh, who's joining us to speak on these items.

There is a memo attached, and um, you know, uh which is pretty much it suffice to address these issues, but I thought, you know, in case if committee members have any questions, uh, you know, it's always good just to the public knows when we send these to committee.

And so, you know, for any of the members of the public who maybe live near the warming center, you know, that the board counselor, venue and camp and as well as the mayor have met with uh members of the committee over there and heard their concerns, and so they're taking you know these concerns very seriously.

So, counselor you and campen did put in um a few orders.

We're gonna take those up together um all at once, and we'll have uh the commissioner um interim commissioner Weisman here to speak on those.

Uh and also it looks like uh emergency management director Bill Fisher is here as well.

I'm assuming um on those, he's also uh been part of the team monitoring the warming center and making sure that everything is um going according to uh uh everybody's needs and and um and also making sure that we're not disrupting the neighborhood.

So I'll just read quickly items five, six, and seven from Councilor Ewan Camp and that the commissioner number five, uh two six zero one one eight, that the commissioner of public works install waste receptacles near the entrance of the warming center on Prescott Street.

Number six, which is item ID number two six-0119 by Councilor Ewan Camp and that the Commissioner of Public Works perform regular litter cleanups along Prescott Street near the warming center.

And finally, item number seven, which is ID number two six-0120 by Councilor Ewan Camp and that the administration investigate the possibility that deliveries, emergency vehicles, pickups, etc.

occur in the coming school parking lot rather than on Prescott Street.

As I mentioned, we do have a memo attached to the agenda this evening to two of those items.

Um and it's pretty brief, I can read um, and then we'll we'll we'll open it for discussion.

But on um item 260118 uh regarding the waste receptacles.

Uh the DPW has installed the trash barrel in front of the entrance to the warming center.

The barrel will be added to the collection route of the grounds division, and then item uh ending in 0119 uh about the regular litter cleanups.

Well, the warming center is in operation, the grounds division will add Prescott Street to the approximate playground debris route at least once a week, giving debris up.

I'm sorry, during debris operations, staff visit each park and collect debris and trash.

The grounds division already services the lot adjacent to the warming center and will expand their activity to any accessible fetters and sidewalks.

Please note that the debris route will be suspended.

When there is snow cover, any biohazards encountered will be forwarded to inspectional services.

So we'll address those two quickly.

Um so obviously we've had some snow cover, but just to kind of check in since um these were added uh I guess two and a half weeks ago now, or when they went into the um uh they were put on the regular council meeting agenda, the last council meeting.

Um direct of sorry, DPW interim commissioner Weissman.

Um have they been able to get you know, there's been snow cover basically since that time.

Um so any updates on sure sounds like the the waste receptacle is it being is it being used uh properly, you know, or have they they noticed a lot of litter because you know, one of the things I always think about with regards to a lot of this stuff is and and I'm not saying it isn't the warming center, it is the warming center, but I just have found in the last 10 years or so the the amount of ride share um vehicles and just um that basically work out of their vehicles and and and sometimes you know when they can't find a nearby barrel, they just litter stuff onto our streets.

Um so you know, I'm just curious if there's any report back on you know the litter type of litter, like you know, what what what the scene's like down there in terms of yeah.

Uh thank you, Chair uh Eric Wiseman, interim director, or sorry, interim uh commissioner of Department of Public Works.

Um yeah, so we put uh trash barrel last week that uh that's right by the entrance.

Uh just just to set the scene.

There were already um two big belly units within the taut lot, uh, but this is like an additional unit.

Um, and so our grounds division has a rotation through all the parks playgrounds uh throughout the city.

So uh they were already going by this spot, but added this additional uh unit for as part of that collection, and then just uh inform them to expand the area because my understanding is that some of the complaints were not just directly uh in front of the Cummings School or the warming center, but um along the along the street.

So um we've been somewhat preoccupied with snow recently, but I did go by today to see.

I did see some like it appeared somebody had like put out a box of free stuff that had kind of spilled onto the sidewalk there.

So I did direct them for an additional pickup there.

Um, I think you know, like debris in the parks tends to be seasonal in nature.

The more people are in the parks, the more pickups there that are needed.

But um, yeah, this will be part of their route, and they will uh I'm sure I will hear if there are um any unusual uh pickups that need to happen.

Actually, yeah, I mean it's probably a little early.

Um, you know, um to know really, like you said, we'll hear about it either through constituents through the counselor or whatnot.

But so it sounds like so far so good.

Uh I'm gonna open it up to colleagues.

Um any questions or comments from committee members.

Okay, so um, I saw um counselor link's hand go up first, counselor link and then counselor Hart.

Um, through the chair, I just wanted to say um how much I appreciate um taking really quick action on this.

Uh so I I get to see how um how well utilized, you know, just the other day I saw you know on the the this you know the really cold day we had yesterday.

Um people lined up outside ready to get in, and you know, it's it's clearly something that we we really want to have in the city.

So um helping to make to ease the burden on on our neighbors is really important.

Um, so that they're not gonna fight this really great thing.

Um so I just wanted to share my appreciation.

Thank you very much.

For the chair, thank you.

Councilor Hart.

Yes, thank you.

I'll I'll echo that appreciation.

Thank you so much um from your work and and addressing this right away.

Um I did want to just ask for my own knowledge.

When it's when you say that the the pickup is suspended during snow cover.

I mean, is that how far after a snow event?

I mean, this snow could be here for another, who knows?

I hate to guess how long.

Um, so just curious how long that lasts.

Sure, through the chair.

I think what I was getting at was um, like we wouldn't be like shoveling the lot to to look for debris or something like that.

It it's um debris that's observed will be picked up litter.

You're talking about the litter the litter.

We're still collecting trash uh throughout.

Uh, we we recently had to uh remove snow to get to some barrels, but this is this is a year-round thing.

Um both debris and trash collection pick up in the warmer weather uh as we see volumes go up.

But um, you know, because we don't do snow removal from the entire tot lot, uh, we don't tend to sort of like tramp through the snow or something like that to look for debris.

But if if there's debris is part as that is observed through the tours of duty, uh, we'll collect it.

Thank you so much for clarifying, appreciate it.

Sure.

Sorry if that was confusing.

Okay.

Um, excellent.

Uh so yeah, so those two items are then we're taking out the the third one as well, which I think um emergency management director is probably here to speak on a little bit.

Um as well, so just addressing item number seven.

Either one of you um at the administration investigate the possibility of deliveries, emergency vehicles, pickups, etc.

occur in the coming school parking lot rather than on Prescott Street.

Um this, I get I'm coming at this as I didn't, you know, I don't it so were there, have there been deliveries and pickups?

Like, has there been activity on Prescott Street?

Um, and that's I'm I'm assuming that that's what the folks in the area are are responding to.

Um so I guess kind of just an overall like so there have they been and has that changed to the parking lot, or are we able to do the parking lot?

You could just speak to this.

Um, whoever wants to speak to it.

So first through the chair, I I can take this one.

So there was some uh complaints from the residents.

I went to the resident meeting with the mayor and counselor you and camp and had a great we had a great discussion with the residents around the warming center, and you know, some of the issues we were aware of, but some of the issues were new to us.

But the big thing for me was the context that we got by just talking directly with these folks.

And so this particular item, because there's staff working at the center that was parking on the street, and then there's deliveries and that sort of thing, it was limiting the amount of access on the street for for residents, as you know, and in Somerville parking is uh you know a limited uh commodity.

So, you know, obviously, you know, the residents are are very proud to have this in their neighborhoods, but they don't want to have these type of impacts if at all possible to mitigate.

And someone brought up the rear parking lot.

Now that was not being used previously because it was being used to stage construction equipment.

That has since changed, and we hadn't identified that that change had happened that we could make that that switch.

And so when they brought it up, we checked with with um Commissioner uh Wiseman as well as uh some other departments.

We found out that the lots available to be used, and so we've made that transition with a couple of caveats.

So the staff is using the lot all the time now.

So for parking for the staff, they're not parking on the street, they're using a lot, and that'll leave it a lot of the parking.

The part that is gonna remain the same is uh drop-offs and pickups.

I'm not gonna have them park way on the other side of the building just to run stuff in.

They're literally there for two seconds.

The other piece was in here, they put in emergency vehicles, and and that's I'm not gonna delay emergency response to having park in the parking lot, walk around the building.

So that'll remain in front of the building.

Hopefully, that's limited as well, but I don't want to delay emergency responders.

And the final thing is not in here, but we did um respond to the residents and let them know that if somebody has an accessibility parking permit, they'd still be able to allow down the park in front of the building because we want to make sure you have the direct most accessible route into the building.

But otherwise, the general staff is parking in the rear parking lot.

But on top of that, we actually had someone reach out recently that said with all the snow and the people parking on the street, the parking was greatly reduced.

I reached out to Commissioner Wiseman, who then um who responded over there and removed the snow when we're able to get back to the constituent and uh let them know the snow moved and that we're putting the people in the parking lot so they should have more parking available.

Great.

Questions from colleagues or anything to add um commissioner.

Uh I think for the chair.

I think uh I think Bill covered it.

All right.

Uh anything from colleagues?

Sounds like everybody's satisfied.

Oh uh liaison Radisi or Dassi, sorry.

Um, Mr.

Chair.

Uh for the record, Gazman Radasi legislative liaison with IGA in the mayor's office.

I just wanted to um thank uh director Fisher and Commissioner Wiseman for their collaboration on this as well as Director uh Carol.

We, as you mentioned, met with or the mayor's office in coordination with several departments met with residents in the area.

So just wanted to reiterate our willingness to um to keep in contact with residents as these issues come up and help uh come up with responses to issues that they identify as direct abutters to the warming center.

Um so just wanted to add that and just say that we're um here in case constituents have additional concerns that they may want to raise.

Great, yeah, thank you.

You know, I'll report back to counselor you and campin.

Um and if anybody is watching this now or I know we have one more member from the public, it looks like.

Uh or if they watch this later, like you said, if they have follow-ups, um, they can do so with uh counselor and camping or the mayor's office.

Great.

All right.

So I think that's it for um for you both.

Uh so you're free to go.

Thank you for coming this evening.

We really appreciate it.

You know, just adds obviously a memo would have been suffice, but I really do think it's important, especially where this, you know, the the neighbors have um, you know, voice their concerns.

And I I appreciate you taking the time to come here this evening.

So thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Yep.

All righty.

So we'll go back to the top of the order.

Um Chair Klingon, um, just to confirm we want to mark these items were complete, or is there a yes?

Sorry, I'm set.

This position is work complete.

Great.

Apologies.

Uh so then we're gonna go back to the order uh business, which is item number three.

And so one of the reasons why um, you know, Councillor Scott could be here and uh Counselor Link did have these have a couple items in that you know may warrant a little bit of discussion.

Also, I think there's a um yeah, there'll be so there's there's some information to come out of these um items.

So I'm just gonna start with number three uh from Counselor Link that the director of public space and urban forestry developed a report on a standardized green score for public parks and identify appropriate benchmarks and expectations for publicly owned parking.

So I wanted Councillor Link to come here to be able to like, you know, give any sort of like thoughts he had with regards to this order, just in terms of um, you know what he I mean it's pretty straightforward as to what you're looking for, but basically too, you know, we have um various sort of working documents regarding green score and open space.

Um, and so I thought maybe we could just kind of come to some understanding of um, you know, how we address your question and this answer and or if it's being addressed, and or um, you know, how we want to move forward.

Um and the other thing I other thing I was thinking about is like, you know, I just I recognize that we have a very active community out there that wants, you know, certainly we want to um any chance we can get addal um uh uh terrain, if you will, you know, dirt, trees and stuff like that.

Uh, when we're redoing parks, um, oftentimes a lot of our parks are sort of they they serve as playgrounds, and then there's so there's a lot of different competing priorities around um, you know making things accessible, be versus you know, as far as ADA goes, and that can take, you know, making sure that there's something for everyone.

And so um how we sort of thread that needle around making sure that we're adding um actual plant life and and and dirt is is an important you know thing that we need to really stay on on top of as we try to add um that to you know the the the warming effect of being such a concrete heavy city.

Um this is definitely um I know a priority for all of us.

So let's start with uh item number three.

Um and I think um oh we have we do have somebody that's right, I'm sorry, Estello, you are here.

My apologies.

Uh to kind of yeah, to speak on this, we'll kind of um John.

Did you want to just kind of like give your you know, give some context to the to the order though?

Uh uh Chair, I think you actually did a pretty good job of of contextualizing it.

Um I'm I'm I'm happy with with that introduction.

Well, like what did like so, but this is your concern, right?

Is like making sure that when we add where we're doing parks that we're um adding, is there a certain percentage that yeah, I don't have a percentage in my I I think um so yeah, I I guess to um fill out a little more.

Um, I'll just say like, you know, there's I think there's there's kind of a couple concerns um that you brought up.

One, like we have so many parks.

Um maintenance can be a challenge, and of course, we want to build the durable and maintainable um you know parks.

Uh, but we also want to make sure that um that you know they they are actually green, you know, like well, we have these, um, and I don't uh I the intention was not to say um that we apply the green score criteria that we have for um you know private um development to uh our parks because it wouldn't quite make sense.

Um, but uh to develop our own green score for our our own parks and our own public spaces, it wouldn't almost make sense, but um but that's adding something to say that.

Uh and um the I guess in the other part is of course that you know, like looking at our making sure we're not we're uh not just focused on like the shiny new things, um, that like you know, we're we've got some sort of way.

And I do know um and want to acknowledge that we've got the um I forget what the title of it is here.

I've got it right here.

But the like uh the open space and recreation plan.

Um I know we have that.

Um so you know, like making sure that we're properly accounting and not just chasing the the shiny new thing.

Um we've got some parks that are definitely need um some TLC and uh and I think you know, acknowledging kind of um what the chair said about like you know, there's all these competing interests, um, but we do know that you know, like for example, one of the big things is like heat island effects that we're talking about.

But when we have you know pavers and the rubberized services, they all get very, very, very hot in the summer.

Um, so that you know, uh, and especially if it's a new park, there's generally speaking, no shade yet.

Um, that's kind of like well, I wanted to sort of like set up a conversation where, and this may be for longer term, you know, offline or something, but but just to kind of like encapsulate it in the like we don't necessarily, or maybe we do, but you know, and I think Estello is here to speak to this, or um, I don't I haven't had a chance to speak to uh Luisa, who's the head of the PSOF unit.

But um we don't necessarily every park is a little different in the sense that we don't have like a formula that we use.

So you do you'll see a park like Central Street, which is like oh you know, almost all natural um materials and so on, or even uh Chucky Harris Park has a lot of those um the the plantings, like the low-level um uh you know, I don't know what they're called, but you know, the the the type of um the plantings that are kind of on the hillside, uh like meadow style plantings and stuff like that.

So right, it's something that we we we do well.

Um, but the question is is when we're saying we're doing a um say, for instance, like the Kennedy schoolyard, you know, this is uh right now this is basically what we call like the old prison yard style, which is what I call it up at the healy when we have that redone.

Um, you know, uh there's there's a a lot of attention being put on that Kennedy School right now as to sort of you know accessibility and what what you know what we're getting, what we're gonna have there.

And um, but we know that it it's definitely gonna be an improvement from the the asphalt that's there.

Um, but the question is like what yeah, like what how are we making sure that we're we're having enough that he line heat island effect uh that we're addressing that uh properly.

So all right, that's all to say uh that uh that's just kind of to give you some background, uh Estello.

So um Estello, uh if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself and uh the floor is yours.

No pressure, whatever.

We're just we're just here to have a discussion on on on this issue as it is important to a lot of people in the community.

Of course.

Thank you, Chairman.

Um and to introduce myself, my name is Estella Reganett, and I am a senior public space planner with PSOF, public space in urban forestry, um, and serving as a proxy for Director Oliveira while she's participating in a public meeting for Art Farm.

So yes, thank you for bringing this up, Counselor Link.

And just to give you all some context, the green score, separate from this conversation, though, is just the sort of review metric by which our division requires all by right and large developments to achieve a certain threshold of updates to their landscapes to try and get them to be more permeable, to be more planted, et cetera.

And so our green score works to ensure that private owners and developers who previously weren't required to make updates do make those renovations to their landscapes so that they're performing to the best of their abilities.

And so our position is that the green score requirement would not be wholly applicable to the work.

I mean, we kind of touched base a bit on this with the sort of different competing interests and different to compare each park to one another, apples to apples, right?

Sometimes our park and open space might need uh a more um like pervious um or or might need a more uh passive recreation space, while others, based off of community uh input and all of our parks and open spaces are vetted by the community, might want more sports courts, which are less permeable, right?

So uh the tricky thing is how to apply a one-size-fits-all metric onto parks and open spaces that are so broad across all of our communities.

Um just to give you an example, I think part of what we're trying to do constantly in all of our new parks is making sure that we're putting up green feature educational signs when they exist, um making sure that we have stormwater infrastructure to um move all the water and grade it so that it's going into plant beds that are able to sort of percolate the water instead of having it go into our drainage systems as much as possible to the extent that we can, right?

And uh to also make sure that our parks and open spaces adhere to our pollinator action plan and the plants that we select and where we locate them and all of the trees um also are creating the shade that uh have some immediate benefit, but we'll have that big shade benefit impact uh in the future.

So this also sort of works in tandem with our design guidelines for public space and as you mentioned, Counselor Link to the OSRP, um, which has uh sort of a lot of information, especially in appendices, um, that has those benchmarks as well as expectations, um, goals and action plans, especially the the priority renovation and upgrade uh parks and open spaces.

So once the funding is there, these are the spaces that as you're uh pointing to Counselor Link, um, are more permeable but do require that the renovation.

So as soon as we get the financing um and the community input, those are the the uh parks and open spaces that we want to prioritize.

Um and I I think with all of the uh work that we've done within the last few years with the pollinator action plan with the OSRP, uh you won't be seeing sort of full blacktop courts.

Um but again, the the implementation of a single metric to quantify or try and quantify the the amount of permeable space or plants planted, just is very difficult and challenging for the range of parks and open spaces within our city.

But just a question, um Estello, thank you for that, by the way.

But I mean, couldn't we establish like um uh like a bare minimum percentage of any you know new park development um like couldn't we establish some sort of guidelines to at least make sure that we're sort of you know we're getting um some natural plantings, native planting, what you know, what whatever uh you know, other than just materials.

And and part of that, Chair, thank you, would be to or for us to understand what that threshold looks like.

Again, um, similar to what we're talking about with the Kennedy school, right?

Like that requires a lot more impermeable surfacing because of the play surfacing that's required because of the um actual needs of the community there.

Um that's a pretty good example where we we have a lot of open space.

Um we're trying to fit all of these competing interests and programs.

Um but I do want to um stress that our division does have or is comprised of five landscape architects and uh two arborists.

So we're constantly trying to figure out where we can add as much green space, as much ground cover or trees as we can.

So for example, right, like Kennedy School and Junction Park are two sort of ends of that spectrum.

Uh right.

Like in Kennedy school we were bound to these sort of specific programs that make it such that the minimum planting threshold, if we set it, might not be met, right?

Because of the just area itself, as opposed to a place like junction that is much more passive in nature.

Um we're able to plant significantly.

Um we're able to have a lot of trees, a lot of ground cover, a lot of uh permeable surfaces.

So to set a minimum for the wide range of needs um is is really challenging to accomplish.

Yeah, well maybe you know something that's to bring back.

I I know the word green score kind of throws us in one direction of thinking about like you said, through zoning and and um and and new development, but but I I I think the spirit of this uh it's a good question a conversation have internally, I think, as to sort of how do we establish, like I said, maybe you know, maybe it's a I don't want to say like a bare minimum thing, meaning because if it like based on if there isn't a lot of wiggle room around, you know, what we need to do, like you said, each park is specific, you know, has its own needs.

Um, you know, but maybe we're trying to get in at least so you know, a whole sort of like little wall of like planters with some things.

Um but yeah.

Uh colleagues, questions, comments, anything on this particular item.

Council link.

Yes, um, so uh through the chair, uh so I just want to say first of all, thank you so much for coming uh for for um being able to speak to this item.

Um and uh I guess I want to lead with this to just be clear that this was not um intended to be like uh uh in any way a criticism of of the great work that the um your department is doing.

Um I'm only looking to um make sure that we're continuing to you know push ourselves as as far as we can and to make sure that we're always doing the the best and um and make sure that we you know we've got different ways to look at things.

Um towards that, you know, I I guess um as uh as Chair Klingon um mentioned, I I don't know necessarily if we need even like a um a bare minimum, but some sort of like uh it would be nice if there was and and I should I guess step back to say maybe this exists already, but like a rubric um of some kind, even um to uh understand like how or maybe even like a you know a scorecard, um, you know, that so this is what we've done.

Like these are the things like this is where we've really excelled in this park, um, and uh kind of understanding like how I guess bringing to the surface how maybe the what the goal was of the park versus um and I guess and how how well that was executed.

Um like I look at uh Junction Park, which I love, um gorgeous, gorgeous park, and elegant Ken Kelly, which is also a gorgeous park, but also like has like a lot of like non-permeable surface.

Or I mean I understand that the pavers themselves are permeable, but I believe there's a lot of like there's cement paths, which I'm sure are there for ABA reasons, um almost sure, I'm assuming it's a there's a lot of it there.

Um so you know, like understanding like even just having like I guess maybe it being as transparent as possible, not just for the city council, but for for our residents, so that they understand like all right, well, you know, like this is a this is where it's not working well, but it's not working well because of this thing.

Um I think would be would be helpful and having that like on record.

But I also think that um going back a little bit like you know um like I understand in our our open space recreation plan, like you know, we've we've done I mean it's a it's a volume document.

Um and there's been a lot of hard work done in there.

Um the uh the range, the date range though, gives me like pause because I'm just like, oh well, we've got like this is I think it's to yeah, 2035, um, which is a full nine years from now.

Uh and there are some parks uh that you know, like Kennedy, I think is it's a you know, obviously it's a high impact park.

Um but I look at also things like Perkins Park, where um there's there's a um it's in like the you know an environment uh a justice neighborhood and we um I just I I had a very long conversation with a constituent um when I was uh doing my campaigning and and we talked a lot about how um how that park is a miss and obviously no one here um I don't think that anyone it's an old I think it's over 20 years old, I think is what I saw.

So I don't think anyone here is designed to that.

But um you know, I want to make sure that uh how I I guess I I'm unclear on how it's getting how these part different parts are getting prioritized.

Um I know that it's ranked highly as needing um replacement, uh, but I don't know if that means that I but I know Kennedy was actually ranked, I think, below it.

Um obviously I'm not saying we shouldn't do Kennedy, we should do Perkins, but what I am uh curious about is just like how where uh you know if we're focusing on just new parks and you know um you know because Kim Kelly is bit uh is a brand new park.

Um are we focusing on on how are we prioritizing?

I'm sorry, I'm rambling.

How are we prioritizing um is my question through the chair?

All right, well, before you go, first of all, John, I want to say you don't need to apologize.

Like when you put an order in like this, this is for this discussion.

This is why like I see this order when you put it.

I don't like you said, for all I know, we have already have this a standardized green thing, and that's that's how we kind of you know figure these things out uh as these questions come up and we have these conversations publicly.

So yeah, it definitely sounds like we're talking we have two things, two questions here, which one being, and and I guess I would pose the question to Stella is do we have a parks master plan?

See, I don't know what it's hard to know everything.

There's a lot to know.

Do we have a parks master plan?

So like is there a you know and then um to also you know, sorry to step on your questions, John.

But but yeah, but basically I was hearing two different questions in there.

One was how do we like do we have a parks master plan?

And two, um how are we determining like with the Kent Kelly park?

How would the public know how we came to the determination to not put more green stuff?

Yeah, and we could have, you know, if we could have put more of this, why didn't we?

Sure.

And uh part of the that chair is yes, we do have the uh parks master plan, which uh counselor link referenced, which is our OSRP open space and recreation plan.

Uh I am happy to uh send that to you all after this.

And as Councillor Link said, it is quite a hefty document.

Um but towards the end of that document um on appendix C is where uh we list the prioritization of parks, um, the as well as the sort of criteria that we use to sort of rank them.

So some of that includes the park condition itself, um, whether or not this adds open space acreage, whether or not this creates more nature as an experience.

So all of the or almost all of the parks that are up for priority do that.

Um and then um a potential for accessible amenities.

So like in addition to other criteria, so they're quite uh uh a list of uh things that we measure in order to prioritize each of these, and um similar to what you were saying, right?

Like the um parks that we what we this is a 10-year plan, or I believe it's a seven-year plan.

Um but the it's all funding dependent and impact, right?

So Kennedy, that was a huge opportunity to address a high impact uh uh park and open space.

But a park like Perkins, yes, while it is it might have been a little bit older, um, it is still a priority park for us.

So as soon as um the funds are available, it's uh going to be one of the the next in line.

And again, um maybe the the question about that uh to your uh to context of the competing interests, um and is making sure that all of that is being communicated as well to council in your your point about goals and not having a sort of one size fits all scenario um is being explicit with the way that we do engagement and how we are communicating the goals per project, right?

And so making sure that we are uh benchmarking what each of the project needs are from the very beginning.

Um and then uh at the end doing an analysis of are we are we meeting the goals that we set for from the beginning of the project, right?

That might be a more uh beneficial way to address whether or not we are meeting the expectations of the community as well as the uh sort of constraints of the site, the inherent constraints of the site.

Um and so I think that that's a great sort of uh happy medium to say the site, the community members want a lot, a lot, a lot of green space.

Um are we able to deliver on that.

Thank you.

Um this is really useful discussion.

Thank you, everyone.

And I just wanted to uh this is to kind of piggyback um of planner Raganit's um comments just now.

Uh that maybe as a way, like I love the signage around the parks that say like what, you know, like that these are native plants or that this is uh to catching rainwater, you know, that really helps do that education and also kind of explain the decisions in the park.

And um, I haven't seen the same for like accessibility.

And I was just thinking that would be another great opportunity to raise awareness and visibility of of some of those decisions as well, and thereby also educating folks using the park.

That's an awesome idea, Counselor Hart.

I I think we'd be very open to that as well.

Any opportunity that we can to educate the public to make it to to educate them just to know that each decision that we make alongside our designers is a deliberate one.

So as similar to what counselor link was saying, right?

Like things might look permeable, but they have a reason or impermeable, um, but they have a reason, right?

And that reason might be ADA, accessibility, um, an inclusion aspect.

So yeah, uh I think we can do a lot better to uh communicate all of the amazing features that each park has and even do a lot more outward focusing communication.

And I think with this new administration, we're very excited to see how we can um do that as well.

Great.

Anything else from anybody.

Okay, so I'll just say, you know, similar to what Counselor Link said, like you guys are all doing an amazing job signing parks.

We have the best parks around.

Um this type of question is just more for so that we can understand how we're totally yeah.

Thank you, Chairman.

And I counselor link, I threw the chat, I didn't take it as a criticism at all.

None of us did, I think.

We're very excited to be on the agenda to talk about the work that we do always.

So thank you all for having us.

All right.

Uh counselor, are you satisfied with uh we're completing that?

Yeah.

Yes, yes, I am.

Thank you.

So that leaves bring us to our final agenda item.

Uh item number four on the agenda, which is uh 26-0067 that the administration explore the feasibility of a year with no swag as detailed within.

Um where's the Seleni, do you have the uh Madame Clark?

Do you have the extended version um of that resolution?

But anyway, while you're pulling that up, um liaison or DC.

Um I know we we I forget we we spoke about this briefly.

Um what does the administration wanna do they have a statement to make on this?

Um thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yes.

Um I am gonna be totally frank and say that I got to this item a little late.

Um I, as you may know, have uh quite a workload um on my plate.

So I did reach out to the city clerks, um financial analyst who uh can help with finance and uh financial analysis for the city counselors.

Um so I've asked him to take a look at calculating some of the cost associations with um swag across departments.

So he's currently working on that.

Um and I can connect with counselor link offline to make sure that you get that information once it's been finalized.

Um other than that, I'm mostly here to listen and get a little bit more context about the request.

Um, but again, happy to follow up on the uh data piece related to the cost um impacts.

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

I and I didn't mean to put you on the spot.

I I know that we had said that this, you know, we're this may not, we may have to keep this one in committee depending on what counselor wants to do, just as it may require some more uh data mining and digging and stuff like that.

Um yeah, actually, I should open a council link first just to kind of um get his thought process around um, you know, what kind of what led him to this or what you know what the thinking is behind this order um while the clerk's pulling up the extended version because I don't have it in front of me and I know that it it's details a little bit about uh what specifically you're talking about.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah there we go sorry I totally misunderstood you here we go sorry guys yeah so yeah the official text is that the administration explodes feasibility of year with no swag in which city departments limit or eliminate the purchase of branded promotional items and report back to this council on potential cost savings environmental impacts and alternative ways to engage residents without single use or low value materials.

So I'll I'll turn over to console link you know I I you know this brings up certain thoughts for me um you know I'm sure we all have thoughts and opinions on it uh counselor link if you want to just go ahead and like what's the what's the spirit of the order is about yeah uh thank you chair um so uh I I think um so obviously the idea would not be to eliminate all swag um but uh rather to uh make sure we're looking at it and make sure we're finding like we're uh the things that we are buying um uh that were that they have a value um beyond the the like some sort of draw into uh draw into like a table when someone's um you know uh out there uh with their uh doing the different tabling events I guess um so you know there's oftentimes there's things that I that I look at and I I see um without naming names or or or casting like judgment but I like look at it I'm like okay that I people aren't going to keep that that's gonna go into like a best case scenario recycled bin um worst case near a trash can uh and um and just the volume of it sometimes uh can uh be maybe um it begs the question to me uh especially in in a time where we're um having to maybe do more with less um if we can maybe just kind of look at what we're doing um and say yeah maybe like this is a good idea and maybe we can eliminate these four things um still have uh other ways of engaging um I think like a really great example the it the um at uh the MLK uh event the the women's commission um just had like Jenga on the table and that actually brought people over looked to me just as much as uh you know the the the little plastic bottle that was um you know made of like the same material that you'd get over a regular you know bottle of water at the the grocery store and um so yeah that's the the the spirit of it is not to to say like let's just stop spending on all these branded things um but more about like you know where can we reduce uh where where does it make sense and um are we sure that the things that we're getting are always the the best things um is there something else yeah no I get it you just you're saying we should we need to be uh we should try to be more intentional mindful about the type of things that we're getting because you know that yeah it runs the gamut right I mean you're talking about like one of those clear plastic water bottles that you know someone may collect because they're free they put it into the the mesh bag that's also free you know you go you know make the rounds around the table and then who knows you know that might end up in the trash somewhere versus you know if you have a domestic violence like magnet that's gonna go on it's a fridge and actually have some use or actually I was watching that show the pit and they uh they had these pens and um it's for when people are suspected of being trafficked inside the when you unscrew the pen there's like a an emergency number you know but you you wouldn't know it by looking at the pen.

Anyway so there's there's a lot you know so this stuff can be really like tools uh in ways to engage people that are you know uh unsafe situations but yeah no I I I hear you like I mean I definitely I think for sure I always think about those the the water bottles you know unless they're like a a metal bottle which we're not really giving those out for free in an event but but um outside of those it's almost like you know what's are people really going to hold on to this or is this worth what we're you know the money that we're putting out but we definitely utilize a lot of these things as uh you know tools uh so there are some uses for them outside of just being a little free thing to you know get get people over the tables um but that makes sense to me I don't know um counselor Hart you have anything on this particular one I think this is more just like a com you know something for the administration to consider uh you know through uh department wide you know administration wide um just take a look at what we're what we're doing you know what we're the things that each department's using I mean I know RSJ they I mean they they probably had a pretty hefty budget on they have a lot of materials uh I'm not like I'm not criticizing or calling any particular one out but I'm just saying what as one council I've I have no

free in an event, but but um outside of those it's almost like you know what's are people really gonna hold on to this or is this worth what we're you know the money that we're putting out but we definitely utilize a lot of these things as uh you know tools uh so there are some uses for them outside of just being a little free thing to you know get get people over the tables um but that makes sense to me I don't know um counselor Hart you have anything on this particular one I think this is more just like a com you know something for the administration to consider uh you know through uh department wide you know administration wide um just take a look at what we're what we're doing you know what we're the things that each department's using I mean I know RSJ they I mean they they probably had a pretty hefty budget on they have a lot of materials I'm not like again I'm not criticizing or calling any particular one out but I'm just saying what as one counselor I've I've noticed that you know um and there's probably reasons behind that like I'm not you know like like some maybe somebody from the it's completely part of a strategy um and that's all we really need in that's if that's the case that's all we really need to hear.

Um but at least then we know similar to the park thing that we know that there's thought behind this.

Counselor Hart uh thank you chair and through you to counselor Link I just wanted to appreciate you for bringing this up and just to to you chair and to everyone um I'm I'm supportive of this idea and and like counselor Link mentioned we're in you know entering into a much more constrained financial situation and definitely we're in a constrained environmental um situation and you know should you know just so I like the idea of just um being very intentional uh with these things that'd be great.

Well I mean one thing off the top of my head is just like anything that ever had said any hopefully we we haven't we've never really made many things that have like the mayor's name on them because I mean you can then you can totally see those going straight out the window you know when we have an administration change so um but yeah you so you you get it right um Liazar Radassi kind of what what we're what we're going for here um as far as like bringing back any you know um sounds like uh the um uh financial analysts is working on pullback is kind of potential cost savings yeah that's a big it's a big job there John what you're asking there it's a lot of you that you know that's somebody's that's like a little side six month project probably um so you may need to uh you know put something else in we may need to like just work complete this and um actually we could just we could we can keep this one in committee and just kind of I'll touch base with the administration you know like a few months down the road and see um if this is some so I mean do you want you all plan on sort of I mean as deep a dive as you can go with whatever bandwidth and you know people you have on hand um the chair oh yes so um the financial analyst actually did a pretty good job given the like day and a half notice that I gave him um but still need to do like a thorough review and would probably need to loop in um several departments to go more in depth over what kind of materials they put out um and then as well uh determining what would be considered like a single user low value material as you know uh we recently hired a new uh director of um sustainability environment so they're still getting up to speed on everything so would probably want to loop them in into any conversations on this so just not quite ready to share anything yet but happy to be here and listen and um once I get those more finalized lambers from the financial analyst happy to relay those as well.

Counselor Link.

Thank you chair uh through the chair I do want to say just um you know we don't uh I don't necessarily uh the intention wasn't necessarily for this to be um extremely granular um because obviously I don't want to give as as the chair uh mentioned it could be uh you know a pretty large project um but I do think that you know um the you know having a a general sense of things um and having um and just uh requesting that the the administration maybe offer even just guidance around like um around these things could would be um would be in the spirit I think of of what uh the my agenda item was there.

I mean as an easy fix and probably uh if we start a moratorium right now and just have every you know type of order like this go through you know uh the new director of sustainability you know so we could definitely we could definitely pinch it off now I all I meant John just for the public watching all uh counselor link is that it just depends on how these have been put in.

go through uh the new director of sustainability you know so we could definitely we could definitely pinch it off now i all i meant John just for the public watching all uh counselor link is that it just depends on how these have been put in so like if it's not like you know because you know with with when it comes to city like it might in terms of just looking at this an office's overall budget it's probably like not obvious like what was you know spent so they'd have to go through receipts you know um but I think this is a great conversation like I said in terms of going forward it's really probably easily fixable if like you know if the mayor says we're putting a moratorium on swag uh well no we're gonna do swag but like you know we want to kind of just run it through um whatever but um yeah so there's definitely a lot uh of good that could come out of this and just in terms of being more mindful and intentional around you know what what what we're ordering and stuff like that so certainly it's a definite uh yeah something good going forward for sure um so you can take all this back to the uh the mayor's office liaison Radassi and um all right we'll leave this one in committee just you know I'll I'll keep it in the box and we'll we'll touch base whatever like down the road um because I do think it's it's one that we should keep our eye on um so yeah all right anything else from anybody on the committee all right well just done just before seven it's a little longer than I expected but um what time is the art farm meeting going to I think it goes until four uh for four more minutes chair oh really so it's just six to seven I believe so yeah I figured it would be an hour and a half one um all right well anyway um so we're gonna keep that one in committee madam clerk everything else will be work complete and then counselor Hart moves to adjourn if you could call the roll for adjournment all right uh an adjournment counselor Hart yes Chair Klingon yes counselor Link yes all right with that it is 658 and we are adjourned.

All right thank you everybody good night