I went on a little vacation.

It was fine.

But yeah, you'll see you hear a lot more.

All right.

Well I hear there are like people already signed up.

I wasn't even going to come.

And for the shortcuts, so I thought we'd screw up.

But I said that is a couple of things.

So red.

Yeah, do it.

So this is east staff.

And it was kind of like they were trying to develop the class.

But roasting channels, you know, so I mean, the city of Spinburg City Council meeting to order.

We gonna stand for a moment of silence and be led by the pledge of allegiance.

Mayor Pro Tim, do you mind leading us?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Liberty and Justice.

Thank you.

We have item three, approval of the minutes for the September 8th, 2025 City Council meeting.

Submitted.

Second.

All in favor.

Aye.

Any that opposed?

Ayes have it.

Uh item four.

Mr.

Mayor, I'd like to make an amendment to the agenda.

Um, we're gonna be recognizing retiree brad hall tonight, but our firefighters are here to honor him, and they will not be able to stay for almost the two hours of public comment that we have.

So I'd like to move the recognition of retiree Brad Hall to item five.

Second that motion.

Sounds good to me.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any that opposed.

So we move in item seven up to five, and we'll follow suit after that.

So now we have to have the approval of the agenda for September 22nd, 2020 as amended.

So moved.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any that opposed.

I have it.

So we're moving with Brad Hall.

Come on down, brother.

Your fellow colleagues and brothers and service.

Wanted to be here for you.

We do so and sisters and sisters.

Thank you for that.

Just so everyone can hear us.

Um assistant fire chief John B.

Hall began his career with the City of Squartburg Fire Department in August of 2020 of August of 2003, serving as a firefighter and relief driver.

He transferred to the fire marshal's office where he worked as an inspector.

He rose through the ranks within the fire marshal's office and was appointed as a fire marshal for the city of Spartanburg in September 2010.

During his time, he was also appointed as the accreditation manager in 2018.

He was appointed, he was promoted to assistant fire chief managing operational deployment of the fire service.

During his tenure, he has obtained recognition at many levels and has held seats on several boards and commission.

We thank him for his service to the citizens of Spartanburg.

His talents will surely be missed.

And again, Brad, thank you, brother.

We want to also present it uh with the outstanding service award special recognition, assistant fire tree Brad Hall for his dedication and commitment to the city of Spartanburg from 88 2003 to 9 2025.

And again, I want you to have a minute or two or whatever you need to say a few words for yourself.

Just like to thank uh citizen city smartburg for supporting the fire department over the years for my fellow firefighters, police officers in here.

Uh the marsh continues for y'all.

God bless you, stay safe.

I'm gonna miss the friendships I've had in the city of Spartan Burg.

Uh good to serve others.

Thank you.

All right, now it's time for our proclamations.

As you guys, as everyone can see, we have a packed house tonight, so we're really gonna be sticklers for that two minutes.

So we want to be respectful of one another that is speaking.

Please hold all applause and um attaboys and all that to you get out in the hallway.

So, and again, we have over 40 guys, so it's gonna take us some time.

As I call your name, please come up, give us your address, and your two minutes will start after you finish your address, and you're here to clock go off, and our city clerk, Christy Lindsay will keep the time.

Dr.

Brenda Lee Price had you walk slow.

Brindy Lee Price, 291, Alexander Avenue.

Former member of Morgan Square Enhancement Committee.

The history of the bell is quite interesting.

Very little is ever mentioned or told about that bell.

I looked to see if anything was on the marker at the clock tower.

I didn't see it.

So I'm here to kind of share some information with you all.

Uh, council members, so you'll be aware of the history and prayerfully, just keep the history in mind once you make a decision what you plan to do with the towel and the clock and the bill.

I chat with some scholars and um people that I do research with, like uh Todd Stevens and Brad Steineke and Betsy Teter, who I served with on the um enhancement committee.

Um much of the bell's history has not been told or written about.

The bills on Margan Square before the clock tower.

It was needed to signal the curfew time for the 800 or more enslaved that were to be off the streets at night or face 20 lashes with a whip if they did not have a special pass.

In 1865, the enslaved were emancipated, and 18 years later, a new bill was purchased in addition to the clock by the town council, who along with the first African-American city council member was the ex um was enslaved.

Um Charles C.

Boma, his name, I think Boma Avenue is named after him.

Um the city's new bill and clock.

Mr.

Mayor and Council, if you vote to move the tower, please include the correct history of the bell.

And I'm at two minutes or up.

But thank you for your attention.

Thank you for your time.

Taj McGlim.

Good evening.

My name is Taj McGlyff.

I live at 518 East Main Street here in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

I am here as a proud board member of SIREN.

Tonight I'm speaking in both sign language as well as words to let you know the importance of access and dignity and safety as it's matters in our community.

Spartanburg is home of South South Carolina School for the Deaf and Blind, a place that shapes generations of students, including my own, and the city should be the leader in a way of showing how important inclusion and what it looks like.

Hate crime needs has stops, stops the vision, and it's not that it's just about fighting, it's about the way that folks are intimidated in different groups.

Groups of color, groups of faith, groups with disabilities, and groups of the LGBTQ population.

They leave a lasting scar on communities and make neighbor neighbors feel not safe.

I am here to support the Roy C.

Henderson hate, hate crimes ordinance, and to ensure that the city makes a clear stand on the support and let everyone know that hate has no home in Spartanburg.

Thank you.

Thank you, Taj.

James A.

Jones.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, members of council, and the public.

Um James A.

Jones, 582 West Green Street.

Um, as another board member of Siren, I do too, rise in favor of the hate crimes ordinance.

I also rise in favor of leaving the clock tower as it is.

We don't want you to move it.

Dr.

Brennley.

Um, the bell is, and I love that history, but we don't want you to touch it because if you touch it, you might break it.

And if you break it, you may not be able to fix it.

But there's one other thing I want you to do, please.

As I was getting ready this morning and doing our international prayer call with my fraternity, I looked up a little stat or two.

And that stat told me that the former sheriff noted that in 2023, since 2017, 475 drive-by home shootings in Spartanburg, many of those in the city.

Just last month, Rusty Clevelinger noted over 53 drive-by shootings in Spartanburg.

I spoke to Mr.

Mayor back in 2021 when my own home was shot up.

You told me that the solution was to change leadership.

That leadership would be changing by way of retiring the chief of police and the deputy chief of police.

That was four years ago.

Homes are still being shot up.

Our young people are still dying.

I was just with the family last night, another 17-year-old dead.

No chief of police has retired.

None of them have been forced to retire.

The deputy chief is still here, and I haven't seen any action from City Council and leadership from the chief.

Um, Major Little John, you guys have to do but better and do more to protect our families, to protect our homes, and to protect our children.

And I say we do that too now.

Thank you.

Sarita Edgington Edgar.

Edgerton.

Representative Sarita Edgerton, District 34 Spartanburg, P.O.

Box 1707 17072, Spartanburg 29301.

I'm here to speak against the hate crimes uh ordinance because of three reasons.

It violates the first amendment.

Vile, disgusting, and even horrible name-calling is protected speech in this country according to the First Amendment.

The right to not be offended is not protected by the First Amendment or the Constitution.

And that is not enshrined in the Constitution as it is.

The second thing that it violates in the Constitution is the double jeopardy clause.

A person cannot be punished for the same offense multiple times.

When you are convicted or someone is convicted of say assault, and they are sentenced to a number of years in prison, and then we tack on a separate sentence after that because it's a perceived hate crime.

And then the last thing that it violates is the 14th Amendment of Equal Protection.

A hate crimes bill creates a class of people that are to be protected.

The Constitution says we are all equal under the law, and we all should be protected by the Constitution, not certain people groups based on certain demographics.

Other things in this bill that concern me are biological sex is not listed.

You listed gender and gender identity, but biological sex is the actual scientific term.

You were either male or you are a female, you were born that way, XX XY.

That and gender is a construct of our cultural society.

And the second thing is that you can be a sentence to, or you can take re-education classes to amend your sentence or to alleviate your sentence.

Who gets to decide to decide what the re-education is?

This sounds like communist Vietnam or communist China to me, and not the free state of South Carolina and the beautiful city of Spartanburg.

Thank you.

Thank you, Representative.

Kobe King, please, please, ma'am, please, sir, but you clap with your applause.

Kobe King.

Good evening.

Colby King, I'm at 657 Maple Street here in Spartanburg.

I'm going to speak in the opposite direction from our previous speaker.

Thank you for putting a hate crimes ordinance on the agenda.

I appreciate your responsiveness, your thoughtfulness, and your leadership.

I just want to reiterate, I know I've spoken on this previous meetings.

Um I want to reiterate that South Carolina is one of only two states without a hate crime law.

The legislature uh needs your kind of leadership, I think maybe.

In the meantime, though, while our state has not managed to pass a law, more than 20 municipalities across the state of South Carolina have passed a hate crimes ordinance, like the one you're considering.

I would be very happy to see us join that list.

Our diversity is our strength, regardless of what letters we might line up with our chromosomes.

Our diversity is our strength, and we ought to do what we can to support each other as neighbors and fellow community members.

Because and not in spite of our differences.

Thank you.

Thank you, Cobra.

Daphne Hughes.

Daphne Hughes, 632, Crystal Drive, City of Spartanburg.

Mr.

Mayor and City Council members, thank you very much.

I'm the daughter-in-law of the late Colonel Hughes and Mrs.

Jane Hughes of City News and Pickabook.

This evening I'd like to share four pictures of our iconic, beautiful tower.

The first image is from Southern Living, where the clock tower is the image at the top of the webpage that talks about the 12 best things to do in Spartanburg.

The second is the image from the city's website.

While photo number three is from the Spartanburg Historical Walking Tour.

And finally, the Spartanburg Association of Realtors thought the icon the clock tower was iconic enough to use it in their sign.

The point at point is, as our friends say on our Facebook page, the clock tower is synonymous with the city of Spartanburg.

Furthermore, in Adele Aaliyah's piece titled Ten Most Charming Town Squares in South Carolina, she stated Spartanburg Center holds a shape that many Southern towns have lost.

The historical traditional town square.

Unlike surrounding development, the square wasn't widened or rerouted for traffic.

That preservation anchors a growing downtown that has added density without sacrificing its form.

In closing, Spartan, my Spartanburg citizen friend Roxana said it best.

Removing the Spartanburg's historical clock tower to rebuild a hotel and a parking lot is shameful.

It's not progress, not the kind of Spartanburg needs.

This decision feeds personal interest, not the people of Spartanburg.

Our history and identity deserves respect, not demolition.

I appreciate your time.

Thank you.

Alice Sutton.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

I'm Alice Sutton, 426 East Park Drive, Spartanburg, South Carolina, 29302.

I'm here for the Unitarian Universal Church of Spartanburg.

We have a long history in Spartanburg.

Members were active in the civil rights movement in the 60s.

We're proud of our beautiful city and work to make it a better place for everyone.

This century, my church hosted the first gay pride festival in Spartanburg.

This June, we hosted the reception for the opening of the South Side Cultural Monument.

We believe that diversity need not mean divisiveness, and that we must respond to systems of violence and oppression with the power of love.

The hate crimes bill, as you know, has not passed the South Carolina General Assembly.

As you just heard, over 20 cities and towns have passed local ordinances.

In fact, of the 15 largest cities in South Carolina, eight have already passed the hate crimes ordinance.

Spartanburg should be next.

I see some supporters in the hall, but of course I don't recognize everyone.

So I'd like to ask everyone here who supports this ordinance against hate crimes to please stand very briefly.

Thank you so much.

We ask the City Council to pass the hate crimes ordinance and give us one more reason to be proud of our city.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Dr.

Coleman.

I am Dr.

Claudia Coleman, retired educator from Spanish School District 7, 206 Sheffield Drive, Spartanburg, South Carolina.

I'm here tonight regarding the new fiber optic service that is being installed in my neighborhood.

Now, we have red and yellow flags going up in our yard, and I'm told that by ATT that they are going to dig up our yards.

Now, my yard, I'm concerned.

My yard is very large, and they have put a big orange circle.

And I was told that my yard is going to be the main server box.

This will not happen.

I have paid too much for my yard to be landscaped, and I will not stand for it.

So someone needs to come out and tell us what is going on in Spartanburg.

Thank you.

It's uh PO box.

Dr.

Dr.

Coleman, excuse me.

Can you give us your street address again?

I live on 206 Sheffield Drive, Wadsworth Heels.

Okay.

Thank you.

206.

We got Mark.

Monica and Monica.

Yes.

Hello.

It's Mark Monahan, 150 East Victoria Road in Spartanburg.

Passing a local hate crimes ordinance is more than a legal measure.

It's a statement of our values that Spartanburg is a place where safety, dignity, and respect are non-negotiable.

From a business perspective, this is a smart policy.

Companies, whether they're homegrown or looking to relocate, choose communities where employees feel safe and welcome.

A hate crimes ordinance signals to investors, entrepreneurs, and skilled workers that Spartanburg protects its people regardless of race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.

I know some may wonder whether this ordinance is necessary when we already have laws against assault or vandalism.

The difference is that hate crimes target people for who they are.

And that sends a chilling message to entire communities.

Without a specific ordinance, those motives can be overlooked and the harm underestimated.

Others may worry about cost or enforcement, but cities across South Carolina, Greenville, Columbia, Charleston, you've heard, have passed similar measures without significant expense.

And what they have gained is a stronger reputation as safe, welcoming places to live and do businesses.

This ordinance isn't about adding red tape.

It's about giving our police and the courts the tools to respond effectively and giving our businesses the confidence that Spartanburg is a community where every employee, customer, and visitor is protected.

That's not just the right thing to do.

It's the smart thing to do for our economy.

Even one hate motivated incident can ripple through our community, damaging trust and deterring business investment.

By acting now, we send a clear message.

Spartanburg will not tolerate intimidation or violence based on identity.

We are open for business and open to everyone.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Becky McLandton.

Becky McLaughlin, 208 Lindbergh Court.

I've organized my thoughts into four objections to the hate crime ordinance.

I rise to speak against its adoption.

Amendment 22 offenses, the uh miscellaneous provisions of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Spartanburg and add a new section, providing that a person who violates another section and on and on it goes.

Simply put, number one, I object to the overreach of government.

Number two, the word intent is subjective and requires an alleged victim and a member of the judiciary to concur.

I'll give you an example.

We had recently a lifting of holy hands as we often do in the South.

And it was uh it was interpreted as a Heil Hitler sign.

That certainly was not the intent.

Intimidation is also a muddy water, number three.

Assault is already a statute, and it's not necessarily physical, but viewed as a threat.

And finally, number four, and this is personal.

Finally, harm or threat.

There um that there is because of race, creed, color, religion, gender ID, sexual orientation, ethnicity, and more.

But where is the harm for the aged?

And I speak from experience.

We can add more of those who are offended and select a few categories for the thousands of geriatric Spartanburg citizens among us, and I am one.

But then again, we're crusty old buzzards, and we don't get offended quickly.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Joe Spagner.

How are you doing, Joe?

Joe Spagner, 102 Field Stone Road.

Um Good evening, Mayor and Council members.

Um thank you for your service to our committee.

During my time on Council on this August body, we had uh a lot of different issues and challenges, including the Arkwright dump controversy.

Mayor Rice, if you recall, we were tackling the cleanup and remediation on the site.

It was a situation that came about because of decisions made by a local official 60 years prior.

Decisions that many years later affected the health and safety of citizens.

And cost taxpayers thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees with DHEC and EPA, as well as cleanup and remediation costs.

But it also, more importantly, it damaged general confidence in government.

Trust in government is a fragile thing.

Just recently we've had to deal with the replacement of a sheriff in a special election that resulted in damage to the confidence of our citizens.

The Nautilus Fitness Center in Blue Moon properties generated a modicum of public controversy.

In general, they're just people that have become very weary of the occasional intrusion of government.

Yet.

In a little over a month, some of you sitting up here are going to be asking your constituents to place their confidence once more in you.

The clock tower may seem to be just a sentimental object, yet there's several citizens here who appreciate its history, tradition, and appearance in downtown.

It's also a small but significant symbol of Spartanburg that can be found in many representations promoting tourism, education, and business.

And as mentioned earlier, the Spartan Good Association of Realtors showing the clock tower in their logo.

The clock tower is a beautiful historic structure that is synonymous with our city.

Keeping it visible and functional can not only bolster the citizens' trust and confidence in your leadership, it can help in a small way to advance our city.

So let's work together and preserve it for generations to come.

Thank you, Joe.

Bill Bledsoe.

Hi, thank you.

Um Bill Bledsoe, 1520 White Oak Street, uh Spartanburg, South Carolina.

I have been a 40-year businessman in city.

And at that address, too.

Um in this room, there are a lot of people that believe a lot of sides that's going on here.

And what I'm going to try to do is give both sides of this specific bill.

Uh everybody, you know, that are pro the bill says it's needed to protect our families.

They say federal and state laws are inadequate.

They say that this bill will increase punishments for somebody that does a hate crime.

They say this bill will prevent hating that causes the hate crimes because of fear.

Um, the law, they say this law will send a clear message that hating is a crime.

This bill allows victims to sue for for payment, they believe for payment for medical bills, lost wages, property damage, even emotional distress or harassment.

Now, on the other side, hate crimes are addressed in the federal level by the Civil Rights Act of 1968 and by the Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009.

If you are convicted under federal law of a hate crime, it is punishable by 10 years in jail.

It's also punishable for up to add with this 250,000 dollars in fines.

Now, at state level, we've got a state bill in the the uh judiciary um committee, and uh it's S57, Senate 57 for the Senate Committee on Judiciary.

Under this bill, if you're convicted, hate crimes are punishable by 15 years, not 10, but 15 years in prison, and up to only 10,000 in fines instead of 250,000, kind of shows about how much money we pay first is what they make.

Thank you, sir.

Okay, thank you.

Gwen Stember uh Bridge.

Thank you so much, Counsel.

Um, my name is Gwen Stembridge.

I live at 214 Woodview Avenue in Spartanburg, and I'm here to speak in favor of the hate crimes ordinance.

I first came to Spartanburg in 2006 as a converse student, following in my mother's footsteps.

After living in a couple different parts of the country, I settled back here with my family to be closer to parents and extended family.

Considered Greenville and Charlotte, because bigger cities often mean not only increased resources, but increased safety for many of us with minoritized or minority identities.

But we settled on Spartanburg.

Not because it is in the state of South Carolina, but largely in spite of it.

South Carolina most certainly does not have the reputation of being hospitable to families who are part of the LGBTQ plus community.

But because of the community that we know Spartanburg grows and sustains so beautifully, we took a deep breath and made an investment in the future of our growing family, and despite the lack of state legislative support.

Have you ever walked home from an event in the dark, worried not just that you might be robbed, but that you might end up facing a horrific death like that of Matthew Shepard, Sean Kennedy, Brandy Bledzo, Dime Doe, Sasha Wall, or the hundreds of LGBTQ plus humans whose murders I refuse to describe here.

If you have the stomach for it, I encourage you to do the research.

The words dismemberment, unrecognizable, and brutal often are part of the news articles related to these hate crimes.

Hate crimes are at their best deterrents to such heinous crimes, and at least a statement of this beautiful southern city that we offer hospitality to all, but not hospitality to hate.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Leo Hopkins.

Hello, City Council.

Name is Livingston Hawkins.

I live at 503 Howard Street in the city's sixth City Council district.

Uh I'd just like to speak once again in favor of our hate crimes ordinance.

I would like to list off some things I personally love about our city.

I can brag about our city.

First of all, I get to speak before a minority majority council.

I think that that is important context.

Um, in 1993, this city became the first upstate SC city to have a black mayor with Mayor Talley.

In 2009, it recognized pride for the first time.

In 2010, Juni White officially had the Pride Proclamation and recognized it officially.

This uh this city, Spartanburg, um, joined the government alliance on race and equity, and it was the first statewide South Carolina city to do so, followed now by Columbia and Myrtle Beach.

Um, I think that then we go all the way to the healing resolution in 2020.

I see a progression here.

Our city progressively getting more hospitable, more opening, more welcome, and I want to see that continue, not just with this hate crimes ordinance, but with other things, hopefully in the future that we'll push for, because this is no way um the end of the work.

And I'd like to end with a quote from one of my favorite authors, James Baldwin, a black queer man in America that got to see a lot of this change.

Um, and it's from No Name in the Street.

If no one, if one really wishes to know how justice is administered in a country, one does not question the policemen, the lawyers, the judges, or the protected members of the middle class.

One goes to the unprotected, those precisely who need the law's protection the most and listens to their testimony.

So I'd like to extend that as a call to action that as you think about this tonight and in the coming weeks that you've listened to the testimony of the unprotected of the people that would be most affected by this ordinance passing or not passing.

Thank you, Council.

Curtis Cutler.

Good evening, City Council, members, residents.

My name is Curtis Cutler.

I live at 1230 Deerfield Drive.

I have come to voice my opposition against any hate crime ordinance, and my opposition is threefold.

One, hate crime laws hold the appearance of doing good, but in actuality further divide people.

When laws that are enacted on race or sexuality, etc.

It propagates an oppressed oppressor mindset, thus continuing to fracture society.

There will be tribal intersections that continue to abound in number, and folks will literally just divide over the slightest nuance.

And lawfair will be legion.

Two, hate ordinances make the assumption that we have the omniscient ability to read each other's hearts.

Even now, in my opposition to this ordinance, some may be assuming the intentions of my heart.

Judging the intentions of the heart should be left before the throne of God alone.

What is hate material?

Or what is motivated bias?

These can be dangerous Orwellian notions.

Council members, I believe it is utter foolishness to codify into the law what we are not qualified to judge.

And lastly, number three, some categories classified under these hate crimes cannot even be defined themselves.

Council members, how many genders are there?

Better not answer.

We may be in danger of motivated bias.

Will pastors be guilty of officiating same-sex marriages?

Uh when undefined concepts are codified into law, it promotes mistrust and cynicism in the Justice Department.

It would be utter foolishness to codify something into law which cannot even be defined.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Faith does.

On Sirens website, it states that it is asking City Council to use their definition of a hate crime to include hate material.

How do you define hate material?

Some people here would define the Word of God, the Bible, as hate material.

Religious freedom is protected under the First Amendment.

South Carolina Code of Law, Title IV, Initiative and Referendum.

In Section 491210, states electors may propose and adopt or reject certain ordinances, submission by petition to council.

Any initiated ordinance may be submitted to the council by a petition signed by qualified electors of the county, equal in number to at least 15% of the qualified electors of the county.

Can council provide the petition signed by the qualified electors of the county equaling to at least 15%?

Section 4-9-25, powers of the counties.

All counties of the state, in addition to the powers conferred to their specific form of government, have the authority to enact regulations, resolutions, and ordinances not inconsistent with the Constitution and General Law of the State.

U.S.

Council members took an oath of office to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the State and of the United States.

A county can be held liable for passing an unconstitutional ordinance.

A lawsuit addressing such a violation can be filed under 42 U.S.

C Section 1983, a federal law that allows individuals to sue state and local governments for violations of constitutional rights.

Under the landmark Supreme Court case, Monel versus Department of Social Services, an unconstitutional ordinance itself constituted an official policy.

Therefore, if that ordinance causes a person to suffer a constitutional deprivation, the county government itself can be held liable for damages, declaratory relief, or an injunction.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Palado.

The hate is just on perception.

Because you can hate righteousness, meaning I hate when I see somebody get murdered.

I hate when injustice is done, but at the same time, people define hate as totally going against their values.

And today we got such an extreme value point here in our community and divided as what you saw from Charlie Kurt's instance.

You got church shootings all over the place, especially from these types of issues and those types of things that brings out hate that is not correct.

So I'm concerned that we can bring in a statute like this and only define it as one way, not wrong, not knowing that the constitutional law is not been put into perspective as to free speech and rights and values.

I have always protected everybody here.

And regardless of whether you agreed with my faith values or not, there was no question in most people's minds that they knew I stood in the gap for everybody, especially tirelessly for the homeless and those with mental illness that could have gone to jail that didn't have parents to speak for them for the weak and those vulnerable.

But I see mockery often on the other side when you speak out against values that are not of Christian values or in the communities that have attacked the Christian faith, because even here tonight a little bit, people were saying that.

So thank you, sir.

Do I oh uh Palato?

Your name and your uh address, please.

Yes, I'm sorry.

Uh Joseph Pilato 820 Thornbird Circle.

Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you.

Donna Jean Thomas.

Good evening, everybody.

I am not very good at public speaking, so I'm gonna do my best.

Before you start, hold on a time.

Please adjust your phones.

You're in the audience if you have not adjusted your phone.

Okay.

Give us your address, please.

My name is Donna Jean Thomas, and I am a proud resident of the Heritage Court Apartments, a Section 8 Senior Housing Facility.

My address is 425 South Church Street, apartment 520, Spartanburg, South Carolina.

Thank you.

I just moved here six months ago from Arizona.

And I am enjoying your rich history here.

It's fabulous.

And I cannot wait to meet with Mrs.

Price and learn more about your bell tower, your bell tower.

As you are developing and bringing tourists to your community, please do not destroy your history.

But I came here to speak on the ordinance.

And my experience was that I was a uh real estate paralegal in St.

Petersburg, Florida, and I went to lunch with a guy I was dating.

I came back, and the attorneys fired me.

He was black.

I don't understand that.

I saw burning crosses.

These are the hate that I have grown up with.

And I don't understand why you would tolerate it here in this city.

It's such a beautiful city.

It's like driving through a forest.

Make it safe for everybody.

We all deserve to be protected against hateful crimes that I know your families grew up with.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Debbie.

That's on the good evening, thank y'all.

I'm Debbie Dollar.

125 Mitchell Road.

We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

The Declaration of Independence pars out two types of equal, one of which is equality before the law.

The National Center for Constitutional Studies states that all laws should be for all people all of the time.

They also provide that written laws that exclude certain groups of people, laws that grant privileges exclusively to one group, laws that protect the rights of some but not others, or laws that take from some to give to others, are a violation of the natural law of equality under the law.

Those laws may seek to level the playing field and some outcomes, but the result is a society where citizens are not equal under the law.

Hate crime legislation is not equality under the law.

Hate crime laws are arbitrary and knit together with unclear definitions and subjective judgments, which lead to the following errors.

Violation of equal protection under the law, criminalizing thoughts and motives, crime redundancy, overreach by manipulating law into symbolism rather than practical analysis, inconsistent, unequal, and often political application, and undermining undermining individual justice in favor of group identity.

We don't need special laws to make this truth any truer than it already is.

The Bible on which this country was founded tells us in Galatians 5.13.

But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh.

Rather, serve one another humbly in love.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Jamie Bishop.

When Johnson Development purchased the former Herald Journal property, they knew our clock was across the street.

If it has to be moved to make this project work, it should be up to Johnson Development to purchase more property and pay for the careful relocation of the clock, then deed the property back to the city of Spartanburg.

What is appalling is the current condition of the clock.

Missing hands, bells tolling at the wrong time, not keeping up the grounds around the clock.

It's almost like you, Mr.

City Manager, have uh set this clock up to fail.

This is how it appears to the general public, Mr.

City Manager.

This is an underhanded, under the table, backdoor deal in process to make our clock go away.

We know people on the inside at Johnson Development.

One who told us that this young CEO has said, and I quote, screw that damn clock.

For that comment alone, I hope that the grass grows on that property for decades.

Also, while I have a little bit of time remaining, I'd like to go on the record and make it known that to the city council and you, Mr.

City Manager, that Miss Branch, who is tirelessly spearheaded this campaign to save the clock tower, has received two harassing and threatening phone calls about her efforts to save the clock tower.

I find that despicable, and I hope you do as well.

If you as a council vote to do away with our clock, I hope that all of you lose your seats in the next round of elections.

This all stinks to high heavens, and you don't have to snip real hard to smell a rat, as it appears that the city manager puts developers' dollars ahead of the citizens of Spartanburg.

I feel like we've had to beg we had to beg our parents 50 years ago to help pay for the clock tower.

And I feel like we're begging for it now to save it.

I just ask that you all do the right thing and have our save our landmark, leave it alone for generations to enjoy, just as we were promised in 1976.

Thank you.

Robert Parrish.

Frank, come on up.

There you go.

Robert Parents, 205 Spartanburg Waterworks Road, Chesney, South Carolina.

I yield to Frank Tiller.

Um I'm gonna have to hold on.

I'm Frank Tiller, um 1211 Walnut Grove, Pauline Road, Spartanburg, South Carolina, um, Chairman of the Spartanburg Republican Party.

Our U.S.

Constitution is a re federal republic, and a republic because we the people hold the power to elect representatives that would be you to exercise that power on our behalf.

A federation because the power is divided between the central authority, Washington, D.C., and the 50 states.

Some people call it a constitutional republic.

That is also true because we have a constitution, and we and you are to uphold.

All the powers not delegated to our federal government are by the virtue of the Tenth Amendment reserved powers to the states.

If we were a democracy, we the people would be voting on these two issues, the clock tower and the hate speech ordinance.

We are not voting, you are on our behalf.

The clock tower, although its care has been neglected, is part of our history and requires your attention.

Many citizens, taxpayers, have entrusted this care to you.

Please honor and your trust and take good care of it.

Concerning the hate speech ordinance, the following is uh posted on the United Nations website.

They haven't made a rule.

Hate speech versus freedom of speech.

The need to preserve freedom of expression from censorship by states on private corporations is often invoked to counter efforts to regulate hateful expression in particular outline.

This is from their website.

Freedom of opinion and expression are indeed the cornerstones of human rights and pillars of free and democratic societies.

These freedoms support other fundamental rights such as the peaceful assembly, to participate in public affairs, and the freedom of religion.

It is uh therefore the legislative efforts to regulate free expense expression, unsurprisingly raise concerns that attempts to curb hate speech may silence dissent and opposition.

To counter hate speech, the United Nations supports more positive speech and upholds respect for the freedom of expression as the norm.

Therefore, any restrictions must be an exception and seek to prevent harm and ensure equality or the public participation of all to create something that it's I think you're treading on thin ice.

Please use discretion in your deliberations.

Thank you.

Frank Tiller.

Thank you.

Joshua just Magnuson.

Magnuson.

Good evening, Counsel.

I would like to ask you a question.

Have you ever heard of a love crime?

Is there such a thing?

All crimes require both an actus rais and a men's ray.

That means you have to do something wrong, and you have to have the mental state to do it wrong with.

You have to intend it to be wrong and know that it's wrong in order for you to be charged with the crime under common law.

So a hate crime law is by definition unnecessary because the crimes that already exist already have to have a men's ray.

So unless you can tell me that there's some love crimes on the books right now that we need to create a hate crime ordinance to correct those things, then the hate crime ordinance is unnecessary.

So then the question becomes who does the hate crimes ordinance protect?

Well, it doesn't protect the people who are not listed in the list of who is being protected.

So for example, if somebody discriminates me against me because of my hair color, then I'm not on that list of somebody who assaults me because of my hair color.

You can't have a hate crime against that person.

You can't charge that person for assaulting a red-haired person.

And I believe me, I have actually gotten threats because of my pro-life standard and so forth dealing with my hair color.

Okay?

So it's a real thing.

I think that this is actually targeted.

So if it doesn't protect everybody, then who is it really targeted at?

And I believe that it's that we know who it's targeted at.

It's targeted at those who agree with what the Bible has to say about sexual orientation and gender.

And that is what is being happening.

I believe that that is what's happening here is you are looking at who are the people that are preaching on the street who are the potential Charlie Kirks that would set up a table to engage the public with views that maybe certain people would disagree with.

And I believe that those would be the ones that would get charged with these hate crimes.

Don't we need more freedom of speech and not less?

Don't we need to be creating more opportunity for freedom rather than setting up for potential harm to those the city disagrees with?

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Your address, uh Mr.

Max.

Yes, PO box 212, Campobello, South Carolina.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Tori.

You banks.

Tony.

Tony Ubanks.

Tony.

Didn't know if it was a B or R.

It's an N, Tony.

Not a good speaker slide.

Okay.

My name is Tony Eubanks.

I'm of 124 Guernsey Lane in Spartanburg 29306.

I had a mentor growing up and through my business time that had a statement that he always told me to keep in mind.

It's in God we trust, but all others bring documents.

Last meeting, we brought the documents stating that the clock tower and the island that it sits on is in the uh boundaries of the historical district.

All these ordinances, rules and regulations were presented, and each one of you I hope took the time to look at it and read it because that means that our clock tower is protected where it sits.

Also, Mr.

Story or City Manager stated that they wanted to straighten out the road that goes all the way through West Maine up into through the clock tower.

I looked at it in the state transportation division has a statement that says all roads that do not have curves that are completely straight or more dangerous than a road with curves.

That is a statement that is recorded in under the Transportation Division.

If you think about it, our big cities have had some issues where they'd have an event downtown in the cities, and a car would come through and a lot of people would get hurt.

Think about our clock tower.

There's a curve there, it's blocking uh Morgan Square there to where it would help protect people.

So that's another reason to keep it.

Another thing, we presented a petition with 2700 plus, and as of today, there's 278 signatures on that petition that says we want it left alone.

That's a lot of people.

You know, we see a lot of people here tonight.

A lot of people also thank you.

Thank you.

Cheryl Tillison.

Good evening, Council.

Cheryl Tillotson, 166 Sloan's Grove Road, Spartanburg.

In the wake of the Charlie Kirk assassination, the call is coming from both sides now to punish those who say hateful things on the internet, and it won't just be the internet.

With subjective laws such as hate crime ordinances, I can see down the road where their major function will be to censor those speaking out against things, like Drag Queen Story Hour, and even pastors in churches preaching against sin.

We have to understand the slippery slope of laws that are written in a language most do not understand.

I call it fluid interpretation, meaning they can be applied by unjust judges in a capacity to attain the desired outcome in just about any situation.

I would ask everyone here to ask yourself why, after all these years, do we seem to need qualifiers added to criminal convictions?

Crimes then being dependent on a person's speech and the thoughts behind it.

And who gets to be on the thought police squad?

Just think back to five years ago with COVID.

How many of us who tried to warn about the masking jabs, the killer hospital protocols, were pummeled on social media and bullied in the public square for speaking about the dangers.

This is my fear, friends.

An ordinance like this may very well be used to censor those who boldly speak truth about a myriad of issues and even bring legal ramifications our way.

Too many over the years have fought and died for our right to free speech, and restrictions such as these are chipping away at the core of our liberties as Americans.

Is this really what we want to happen here?

I don't believe we do.

But if we're going to pass such subject subjective ordinances, ones based solely on speech and thoughts, just to appease selected groups of the general population, then we risk the blind justice at the very soul of our country.

With this in mind, we should all fear the danger as to what can happen when the powers that be try to enter someone's mind or police their speech.

Thank you.

Rick Thompson.

Good evening, City Council.

I'm Rick Thompson, and I live at 163 Emily Drive, Moore, South Carolina.

My topic's the downtown clock tower.

I work for the Millican family of companies for more than 43 years.

My boss who ran his company for more than 60 years, frequently reminded his associates to think like an owner.

He also said we should always ask and answer three simple questions.

What's the project of the problem?

Well, the development project will create a hotel and a city administration and county building.

So what's the problem here?

The problem is that the clock tower property is requested per the developer's plan, an unpopular request on the part of many people who've spoken here previously.

Number two, what's the cost?

The clock tower, if left where it is, results in no cost other than repairs and restoration.

What happened to due care and maintenance?

The city manager proposed moving the clock to a museum type display.

Citizens made alternative proposals to recloak relocate the clock tower.

The cost has not been mentioned.

Let's be good stewards.

By determining and providing the cost and promoting transparency, I haven't heard the cost.

And number three, what are the benefits?

Well, the benefits accrue to the developer.

There are no benefits of a museum type display to we the people, and there's much uh opposition that's already been voiced.

Now, hopefully the developer deriving the benefits pays if council yields to the developer.

In closing, are we thinking like owners?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Bob Tillison.

Bob Tillotson, 166 Sloan's Grove Road.

On the east side of Spartanburg.

Four weeks ago in the same venue, I spoke about an invaluable gift called Perspective.

Unable to complete my comments about the clock tower and the allotted two minutes.

The mayor asked me to send my comments to him to make available to you, the city council members.

It's been a month.

So I don't know if you ever got it or not.

So this is my latest perspective.

Citizen comments at council meetings, uh, city or county, is local government's answer to allowing citizens a timed period to speak on an issue.

And we really appreciate that opportunity.

But it is rare.

Engage the citizen or others, even at a later time for follow-up based on the subject matter of the comment.

Additionally, I indicated in my email to you.

The clock tower could potentially be moved to the eastern highest point of Morgan Square near Church Street.

In the area where restroom facilities became a part of several redesign ideas.

Those structures could take on a more traditional brick veneer facade rather than what some considered unattractive and out of place in its design.

That upper area of the square would then complement the much older surrounding historic brick structures.

And I also include the beautiful building that was originally corporate headquarters for extended stay built by the Johnson Development Group, who just happens to be the current developer involved in the core project.

And perhaps the Johnson Development Group might just want to spearhead the fundraising for the move of the clock tower.

Thank you, Mr.

Tillison.

Al Snyder.

Okay, there's things going on, there's potential here.

But this thing with the clock tower is the wrong move.

Okay.

Like I said last time when I was here, is the city of London ever gonna consider getting rid of Big Ben?

This is Spartanburg's Big Ben, okay?

And also the question I think that the city council should be presenting is how do we improve this site?

What can we do to expand it to make it better?

There's some recent articles that come out here in tourism and stuff.

Greenville, okay.

Conway and Greenville ranked among HGTV's most charming small downtowns.

Okay.

It doesn't say Spartanburg, all right, which is sad, okay?

But you need to put time and energy and focus in it.

And I always wondered why instead of talking about tearing it down.

Why is there not talking what can we do to improve it?

What can we do to expand it?

I mean, there's even, you know, if you go to Greenville, here's a picture.

They got this whole street of open dining and restaurants and stuff like that.

And tourism is this is another article here about tourism.

Greenville joins Columbia, Florence, Conway, and alluring more tourists to South Carolina, boosting U.S.

tourism.

That should be a focus of Spartanburg.

And you got to do that with investment, and you don't do that with impulsive planning.

You do that with strategic planning.

Thinking things through.

What's gonna work?

What can we do?

What's available?

And I gotta tell you, that hotel Johnson does looks like a maximum attorney prison.

Thanks a lot.

I'm sorry, I'm Aria.

385 Hot Jobs Sparnburg, South Carolina.

I serve as the lead community advocate for siren.

Hate crimes are not just crimes against one person.

They are messages meant to intimidate an entire community to tell people they don't belong, that they're not safe, and that that fear creates lingers long after the incident itself.

Here in Sparnberg, we've seen what happens when neighborhoods like Highland feel unheard and unprotected.

And across this country, we've seen the cost of silence.

Trey Reed, a young black college student, was found hanging on his campus.

That tragedy echoes here, leaving our own students in Sparnberg fearful and uncertain, especially when they see a confederate flag waving over our inner state.

They our students, our neighbors, our residents deserve to know that this city values their lives and their safety.

Passing this ordinance is not about politics.

It's about people, all people.

It's about facing the truth with no room for personal bias.

It's about telling every resident, every student, every family who calls Sparnberg home, you matter, and you're protected here.

This is about dignity.

It's about safety, it's about courage.

Tonight you have the opportunity to show our city, our students, and our neighbors that Sparnber will not stand still while hate stands tall.

I urge you, choose compassion, choose justice, and pass this ordinance.

I'm got a mirror made now.

Address, please.

Um, 385 Hot Strive.

Hot.

Hot upstate.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Antonio Tanner.

Good evening, Council members.

Antonio Tanner, 128 Clemson Street.

Um, I just want to start off by saying that my giving you all my great gratitude and introducing this hate crimes ordinance into the city.

Um, I was gonna read some things, but I'm just gonna go off the cuff this evening.

Um, just to answer a couple of things that I've heard uh people say there is a loving law.

Uh there was lovings versus Virginia, which these um segregated the um interracial marriages.

So that is a law.

Uh I would also like to say for free speech, freedom of speech is defined as the ability to speak on ideas and opinions without ramifications from the law.

People have the right to express different opinions.

That is fact.

The Wisconsin versus Mitchell 1993 Supreme Court case that ruled that increased penalties for hate crimes do not violate the first amendment.

I will say that again.

They do not violate the first amendment.

That case established a precedent for using motive to enhance sentences for biases, motivated crimes, rare expectations, incitement, defamation, defamation, and libel, and then sometimes obscenities.

Action does not need to be taken, only takes a threat.

For hate for free speech, one can be used to prove intent, motivation after hate crimes have been committed.

I think it is very really important when we talk about hate crime ordinance, is to start to think about free speech.

Hate crime laws have been implemented for the last four decades.

They were first implemented by the beginning of 1981, but they have been challenged by free speech grounds on numerous occasions and are still one of those taking point talking points that you hear today in terms of people trying to undermine or argue against having a hate crimes law.

I would also like to say again, I would love to give you my deepest and gracious gratitude for passing, I mean, for introducing this hate crimes ordinance.

This is something that the city needs, and it also goes for anyone who is up mentally disabled, physics physically disabled if you're also from a national different national origin, which is most of what's part of the city of Farnburg is.

Thank you.

My name is Gia Arajo, and I reside at 5010 for Boy Street.

I'm a proud siren member, and I'm also a licensed mental health clinician.

Before I start, I want to highlight the commonality that we all have, which is that when we were born, we were born without hate.

And it took being socialized to have hate all around us.

Also, that every day we are we wake up with the choice to lift people up or put people down.

Uh with that said, as a mental health counselor that I have worked in the public school systems here in Sparnberg County.

I've listened and guided your kids.

And when I worked in community mental health, where I witnessed the pain, trauma, and loss caused by hate-driven behaviors, crimes and gun violence.

It's very sad.

It's very hurtful.

There's a lot of pain in our community because of those hate-driven behaviors.

Not only because of race, culture, ethnicity, sexual orientation, but culture, it's way more.

You have your own culture and your own family dynamic.

So I care deeply about passing this ordinance, this hate-driven, this hate crimes ordinance.

The ordinance builds upon our own city's healing reconciliation and unity resolution.

Most importantly, it sends a clear message that hate has no place here.

It also reflects Spartanburg's values and vision and aligns with our own shared commitment to the social determinants of health, because safety is not just the absence of crime, it's the foundation for health, opportunity, and belonging.

Hate doesn't exist in a vacuum.

It fuels and escalates harm, including gun violence.

And let's be honest, we all know that we have a gun violence issue.

It's not just an issue, it's not a law enforcement issue, it's a public health issue.

We have kids, teenagers, adults dying to gun violence.

And it has become one of the most urgent safety concerns in our community.

That's why this ordinance matters, because of the heart of it all is the truth that we can all agree on.

Our kids deserve to grow up in a place where safety is valued and prioritized.

Thank you.

Thank you.

George Hayden.

Good evening, uh City Council, everybody here.

Uh I'm not a resident bird, but uh well, but I love this.

Give your address again, Mr.

Hayden.

Yes, sir.

It is 729 Pass Fueled Avenue Guerrero.

Okay.

Uh very fresh people here, everybody.

There is a supreme law in this country.

It's called the Constitution of the United States of America.

And all hopefully all laws in this country would fall under that umbrella.

The uh First Amendment is pretty clear.

This is Congress shall make no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise here.

Or a bridging the freedom of speech.

You know, say it again, abridging the freedom of speech.

Or the press or the rights of people to uh address uh free uh peacefully assemble and dress the government for grievances thereof.

There's another commandment that says we are to love one another as I love you.

And that comes from Jesus Christ and so and uh if we live by that commandment, there would be no need for hate crime legislation.

Well, there will be a time though, believe it or not, that we'll all be held accountable for actions and our speech.

I uh thank you for listening to me tonight.

Uh it's very heavy on my heart that I could say this.

Appreciate you for thank you.

Charmaine Orr.

Good evening.

My name is Charmeen Orr.

I was out at 742 upstate campus drive.

Pull it down.

Yeah, you go.

Can you hear me now?

Okay.

Um, my name is Charmaine Orr.

I was out at 742 Upstate Campus Drive, Spartanburg, South Carolina.

I'm here on behalf of the Umbutu Institute for Community Development to express my support for the necessity of a hate crime ordinance proposed by Sarin.

The goal is simple to make Spartanburg safer, fairer, and more welcoming to everyone.

That means accurate reporting, real accountability through penalties, and better education about hate crimes.

So we can track them correctly at the state and national level.

To reiterate, South Carolina is one of only two states without a hate crime law.

That means 48 other states have recognized the existence of hate crimes and are taking the necessary steps to protect all of its citizens.

The residents of Spartanburg deserve to know they are being protected against the violence and hate that is constantly being denied across the nation, the state, and the city of Spartanburg.

Our concerns are not appearing out of thin air.

They come from lived experiences and exposure to a reality that no longer go ignored.

Hate crimes aren't only criminal issues, they're public health issues.

Racism, discrimination, and violence are recognized as social determinants of hell.

They damage mental health, strained communities, and undermine trust in local government.

By supporting stronger hate crime protections, we send a clear message that our city values safety, dignity, and opportunity for all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening and buenas noches.

Happy Hispanic Heritage.

My name is Neida Mora.

I reside at 128 Clemson Street, Spartanburg, South Carolina, 29307.

I'm here tonight to speak in support of the hate crime ordinance.

As a retired educator of 37 years, I was the DI representative at Spartanburg High School.

And I know firsthand how important it is for every member of our community in West Sacramunidad to feel safe and be seen.

Our students, our families, our neighbors, everyone deserves to live without fear of being targeted because of who they are.

This ordinance is more than words on paper.

It's a promise that Spartanburg will protect its people, stand for dignity, and send a clear message that hate has no home in this city.

This is not hate speech.

Thank you.

Buenas noches.

Thank you.

Sevy in Abarries.

Good evening.

My name is Sevi Alvarez, and I live at 460 South High Point Road.

I want to begin by thanking you all for your leadership.

South Carolina can be a state plagued by apathy, but Spartanburg is an exception.

And part of that is because our city has a council that is thoughtful, intentional, and service-oriented.

I'm here today to speak out in strong support of the hate crimes ordinance that will soon be up for consideration.

And I thank my friends at CIREN, the Spartanburg Initiative for Racial Equity Now for doing the legwork necessary to get us to this point.

This is an important piece of legislation, not only because of what it will do to protect vulnerable minorities within our city's borders, but also because of what it represents for the state of South Carolina.

During multiple sessions over the past few years, our state legislature has had opportunities to enact hate crime legislation statewide, and in every case it has failed to do so.

Because of this dereliction of duty, more than 20 municipalities throughout South Carolina have enacted hate crimes ordinances, and I feel that it would be a meaningful show of solidarity for Spartanburg to join them.

And aside from all that, passing this ordinance is just the right thing to do.

So please vote in favor of enacting the proposed hate crimes ordinance, and let's show everyone that in these dark times, Spartanburg can be a beacon of hope.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Philip Ford.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Council members, my name is Philip Ford.

I reside at 214 Prep Street in the other burg, down 26 in Orangeburg.

But um my name is Philip Ford, and I'm here on behalf of AFA Action.

Um across South Carolina, we have partnered with uh communities to pass local hate intimidation ordinances, and today I urge you to join them.

Um, these ordinances send a clear message.

If you commit a crime against someone because of who they are, the harm is deeper.

It is not only attack on the individual, but on an entire community, and that deserves a stronger response.

I know some have argued ordinances like this infringe on free speech.

The Supreme Court has decided that is not the case in Wisconsin versus Mitchell in 1993.

Others have said a crime is a crime, but we know from lived in lived experience and law enforcement testimony that hate crimes cut deeper.

I don't know why they don't trust or believe what law enforcement has said.

When someone is targeted for who they are, it is meant to intimidate, not just because not just the victim, but every person who shares their identity.

This ordinance is this ordinance is not just about punishment.

It's about people.

It's about the young person who feels unsafe walking home from school.

It's about the family threatened because of their faith or their race.

It's about the neighbor who has been made to feel small, but who deserves to live with dignity and peace.

Spartanburg has a proud history of resilience in striving towards greater justice.

Passing this ordinance would continue that tradition.

On behalf of AFA Action, I urge you to adopt this ordinance and make stroke make Spartanburg a safer, stronger, and continue to be a more welcoming city for all.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Wesley Starter.

And I practice law at 207 Magnolia Street, where I've been since 1975.

I'm a lifelong resident of Spartanburg.

And uh Mr.

Mayor, Council, appreciate y'all listening to everybody at night.

You know, I've been here many times, and I just want to refresh your memory about the history of this clock tower.

The clock is from 1881.

It sat in four different courthouses throughout Spartan Burger's history, and then in 1958, they built a courthouse that could would not accommodate the clock tower.

So it sat in a storage.

So it my father, Bob's daughter, who served three terms as mayor from 1961 to 1972, came with the idea of let's build a tower, let the school kids throughout the county, because he was serving as county by centennial chairman, not city, but countywide.

So 20,000 kids from outsparting county donated money with the promise that they gave money, including Mayor Jerome Rice and Councilman J.

Fauber, that their names would be on the wall, and the tower would be built.

Now, what kind of legacy do you want to leave for the future for the council that voted to tell these school children we don't care what you do?

We're gonna do what we want to do, we're gonna take down the clock tower.

We're getting ready to celebrate another anniversary of the uh celebration of the birth of this country in a few years.

Do you want to have another project and ask school children to donate money for something else?

What promises it that it's gonna last?

So that's what I'm asking you to be on the right side of history.

I want to show you this is what the Chamber of Commerce, our one Spartan puts out.

It features the clock tower.

Southern Living Magazine did a story not long ago.

Show Spartanburg, the clock tower.

Uh every tourist magazine you ever see shows something about Spartanburg.

Is it gonna show a clock inside a glass case inside a building that's only open during office hours?

Who's going to ever be opposed in front of the clock tower in the future if your council votes to do away with it?

I'm asking to please vote to preserve the clock tower and maintain it the way it should be.

Thank you for your attention to that.

Thank you.

Robert Starter.

Mr.

Mayer, Council members.

Thank you for your time.

It pays me to see so many people who upset about the clock tower.

But I have a suggestion.

Right, we can say a referendum on the ballot in November.

Let the people decide.

Spartan has a long history of referendums in the past.

District 7 just used to the referendum a few years ago to decide whether or not to build a new Spartan house.

Everybody else has said about where I want to say.

Thank you, sir.

Elke.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor.

Good evening, City Council.

Last time I talked about uh clock tower, and I still feel like it should stay, and we should not have another building breaking mortal.

But I came today to talk about the um hate crime audience.

And I have not been that long a citizen.

However, I did learn about the First Amendment.

And that is freedom of speech.

And I grew up in Germany.

I came to the United States at age 20.

And a lot of those European Eastern countries were not allowed to just speak freely, like people can hear in the United States.

So any time, in my mind, when you start messing with that, you also take a chance that there be a lot of that there could be government overtaking, or there could be also a lot of uh fivulent lawsuits that come along with the um audience, the the hate crime audience.

I feel like if a crime is been committed, I know that we have courts to take care of that.

We have a judge and we have a jury.

And they can determine if something is done out of hate, or if it is just a crime that is done for any other purpose.

And this is all I wanted to say.

I'm sure I will remember a lot of other things later.

But I appreciate you listening to me.

Thank you.

I live at 268 West Hampton Avenue.

I'm pivoting a little bit.

Um I'm here tonight on behalf of Hampton Heights to invite you all to Port Fest this Sunday.

Um this is our neighborhood music festival from 1230 to 530, and thanks to all of you.

It is our second year.

Um first I want to take the time to extend um a heartfelt thank you for the outpouring of community and especially city support that made our event last year such a huge success, which is allowing us to do this again.

Okay, it was truly a magical experience to see our community united through music, history, food, and fun.

And that's really the heart of Porch Fest.

So which is bringing y'all 12 bands, um local and two regional, two coming from Western North Carolina, and we will have food that uh sorry guys, it's on West Hampton Avenue in Hampton Heights, um, and we will have the street blocked off, so pedestrian only, but we are really excited this year to introduce a bike valet.

So our first 25 riders are going to get free food and drink tickets.

So that will cut down on some unnecessary emissions if you are willing and able.

Um we'll have food, music, beer if you like that, and some light cocktails if you also like those.

And non-alcoholic as well.

Um six porches.

I think that's everything, you guys.

In conclusion, I just want to invite all of you to join us for a day of peace, love, music, and old houses.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

That's the way to finish it up with the public comments.

Thank you all for your comments as as we have been going through this for quite a few meetings.

Uh we have item six proclamation declaring October the 7th, 2025 as national night out in the city of Spartanburg.

I'll present this proclamations to Dr.

Stone and anybody else from the neighborhood advisory board here.

Any other neighborhood association leadership here, please join me so I don't have to do this by myself.

I think Philip likes standing uh by himself, he likes this opportunity as well.

So but uh just an opportunity for us again to celebrate national night out, whereas the National Association of Titans uh watch and sponsor a unique nationwide crime, drug and violence prevention program on October the 7th, 2025, and titled National Night Out, whereas the 42nd annual National Night Out provides a unique opportunity for the city of Spartanburg to join forces with thousand other communities across the country and promoting cooperative policing community crime prevention efforts, whereas the city of Spartanburg police officer plays a vital role in protecting the citizens from crime, drugs, and violent uh prevention efforts and supporting national night out in 2025 locally, whereas it is essential that all citizens of the city of Spartan be aware of the importance of the crime prevention program and impact that your participation can have on reducing crime, drugs, and violence in the city of Spartan.

Whereas police communities, partnerships, neighborhood, safety, awareness, and cooperations are an important theme of the national night out.

Now, therefore, I Jerome Rice Jr., mayor of the city of Spartan, and on behalf of my fellow city council members, I proclaim the proclaim Tuesday, October the 7th, 2025, as National Night Out in Spidenburg.

Mr.

Stone, thank you, sir.

Yes.

And thank the other neighborhoods.

The other neighborhood as well that will be participating in national night out.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Your Honor.

All right.

So we have item eight discussion of clock tower options.

Mr.

Chris Storey, City Manager, presenter.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, members of council.

We've already heard quite a bit about the clock tower tonight, but uh I want to share uh uh a little bit more.

Um we obviously uh have a great deal of uh uh respect for the for all of the citizens who have expressed their their views uh on the clock tower.

Um and while this this matter has been discussed publicly for a number of weeks, I still find myself encountering folks uh who don't know the whole history or why this would seem like a uh a rational uh uh change to make.

And obviously uh I discussed it uh at great length a couple meetings ago.

I don't plan to take that long tonight, but I want to recap some of the key points about the history and some of the uh the logic that has driven staff to make the recommendation that we are making.

Um and I also have some information about um uh other aspects that have surfaced in in recent weeks.

But to um get to catch us up uh and again those of you who were here at the meeting a month ago, not the past meeting, but the one prior to that have seen most of uh if not all of these images, but uh uh do think it's important to to reiterate the history of of the clock uh that is consistent with all of what we've discussed.

As was previously mentioned, uh uh the the clock um the clockworks and bell date back to 1881.

They were uh re purchased then 1881 was the founding of the city um uh the formal chartering of the uh of the city.

Um and at that time a uh facility for the for government operations was under construction, and the clock and bell uh were purchased to be part of that building.

That building uh is that you see in that photo again uh constructed in 1881.

The the clockworks and uh and bell uh are the same that are in the the tower today.

Um and that building that building was a city building uh that was uh referred to as the opera house, but it was it was there was a gathering space on one floor, but it was the city operations uh so analogous to uh city hall of its of its day, and that's where it it existed for the for that period of years, and in 1907, uh the clock moved and was installed as a prominent architectural feature of a new local government building.

In this case, it was a county courthouse, so it's city facility and a county facility, each with different architectural styles, but with one prominent feature in common, which was the tower element uh that contained the the clock and the bell.

So that uh uh county courthouse is uh was where uh the the clock and bell existed until 1958.

In 1958, both the city and the county were building new facilities.

Uh and the county was building the courthouse uh on Magnolia Street that uh uh was demolished maybe five years ago uh to make way for the new county courthouse, and the city was in the process of building the the city hall that was also uh recently uh demolished on Broad Street.

So those two local government facilities uh at the time the respective councils uh uh chose to deviate from that architectural style that had been the case for the first what is that uh 77 years of of uh the city's history of having a clock tower element as the primary archite architectural symbol of the seat of local government.

Uh those groups chose uh and I'm no uh architecture expert, but I think they they both uh went with a with a more modern architectural style uh of the of the county courthouse and the and the uh um city hall, and so neither of them chose to include the clock tower feature or the clock and bell.

So into storage, the historic bell and clockworks went where they stayed for about 20 years until the effort that uh that we know is as the clock tower, uh which involved the participation of the community effort to get it uh uh built and erected.

Uh at that time it was a feature of uh the main street pedestrian mall.

Um as I discussed at length last time uh we were here.

That was a time of great uh angst about the future of downtown Spartanburg and particularly well downtown's across America, but particularly downtown Spartanburg with the opening of new retail centers to the east and west, including Westgate Mall.

There was significant amount of concern about the significant reduction in activity of the downtown.

So the Main Street Mall and the Clock Tower project were elements of revitalization at that time.

And then about a decade of later, there was a desire to reconfigure that intersection of Maine and Liberty.

And so there was an effort to find a new home for the the clock tower.

At that time it was moved to its current location.

Its current location was an existing grass median island that was uh created when uh the historic frontage of what we now call the Herald Journal block.

Uh the there was there was there were some structures demolished to to make way for the route for the road uh to swing around from Maine to connect to Broad, which left in place uh a large landscape island.

Uh so when the desire was to open the Maine and Liberty Um intersection back to vehicle movement, uh that landscape island was unutilized and uh was a logical home for the clock tower.

Um and so that's what has moved to the current location that we have known since that time.

Oh and you're of course you're familiar with it, but include that.

So what we um so that's um that brings us to this year, and in this year uh construction uh uh is beginning actually next month on a uh joint uh city county government facility uh which will feature the new clock tower as its primary architectural feature.

We at the staff level are very much drawn to the historical uh uh connection of having once this clock and bell were in a uh in a city facility, then the clock and bell were in the county facility, and now as a point of pride, those two uh entities are will be the first in South Carolina to share their administrative headquarters, each has a direct tie to the clock and bell.

So bringing the clock uh the clockworks and the bell with us into that new home that will feature that clock tower uh brings a whole lot of um in our opinion historical um uh relevance to this community's history from its founding.

This is the an image of the new uh clock tower um uh which will be the iconic entry feature of of the new headquarters of local government, which we expect to be the seat of local government and in Spartanburg for generations to come.

Uh the current clock tower is uh about 70 feet tall.

This will be almost twice that in size and uh in height.

It will be a landmark that will be visible across the downtown from several blocks in multiple directions.

It will be located on a downtown's highest uh uh traffic corridor.

Um just a couple of more images, I know all of which you've seen, but uh in the spirit of uh illustrating how um this is the this is how it'll look from uh a couple blocks away on uh uh uh main and uh church intersection.

Um that's how it'll look as you approach it from the south on church stream.

So again, we think it becomes uh an icon for the for the next generations as uh the past versions have been.

Um that's just another look from the pedestrian.

Um so here's the four uh iterations uh shown together.

Um just so you so we can you know of course the point that I would emphasize to you all is that three of the four um have the common attributes of signaling that this is the the seat of uh of local government um in your community and connecting uh these historical elements to the local government building.

So that is why we want to bring the the clockworks and the bell to the new building.

Um I want to just as we look back on the timeline, uh I think it's obvious, but but uh just to illustrate that you know the folks who were making the decisions not to take the clock and bell either to the city to the city hall then under construction or to the county courthouse then under construction in in the late 50s, um uh obviously they had their uh objectives with those buildings and and their goals for what symbols they would be for their generations, and um by their decision, they effectively precluded the the folks uh who came together in 1979 and said, Hey, we have this these unique elements of this historic clockworks and this bell in storage.

What can we do positively and productively to take advantage of those, and that's what led to the to the clock tower discussion.

The logic was we have these great uh assets that deserve something better than being in storage.

Let's celebrate them and replicate uh to to the degree um that was possible for them at that time uh what was not included in the architectural design of the city hall and and and county courthouse.

So I think what they did was brilliant and it has served this community very well.

It's been a very positive attribute.

But I also uh would contend and am recommending to to the city council that the historic coherence of bringing the the the clockworks and the bell to the new clock tower um are uh a great opportunity to recognize our our our full history of uh as a community going back to 1881.

Um these are just examples of of how um uh the taking the bell and the clockworks that are now uh 60 something feet in the air and bringing them into a display context uh will allow school kids and community members and yes, those whose names are on the on the plaques to get a proximity they haven't been able to have ever.

Um and we think that that has some community value to be able to see uh up close uh uh these things that the community has cherished for most of the most of its history for most of the last 150 years.

Um and this is an example of how the uh a historic bell that was once up in a tower has been brought down for people to see and experience.

And of course, this is a much more famous bell, but it is uh it's an example of how it can be an interesting uh piece and asset uh uh for the community.

And I don't mean to symbol to be rushing through this, but I just took so long last time I I can't do that again.

But uh to summarize the the historic aspect um and and uh of this I will just uh reiterate that for 124 years a town clock has been a feature of downtown for over 60 percent of that time that has been in the form of architectural feature of a prominent local government building, and that's what we are proposing to return to for the next generations.

Um so this is not uh a proposal that we bring to you that is a historical.

Uh we would argue that it is very much in keeping with this community's history.

So I'll now pivot to discussing Main Street a bit and what I've called here the new Main Street.

Well, in some ways it's a new main street, but from a historic perspective, it's actually restoring the main street facade frontages and the and the relationship that the buildings had to Morgan Square to the original.

In order to facilitate that, which of course was motivated when to create a two one-way routes around Main Street, one block off.

And then if you were driving west on Maine towards downtown, you would swoop around onto Dunbar.

And that was the traffic pattern that existed that was put in place in the 70s, that it that was in place for for several uh decades.

But what that did to this block in the center of this image is it uh took away the original historic building frontage line.

Um I don't know if folks can see it, but uh when I click you can see the blue line, blue dotted line to come in.

That's that's how for most of Spartanburg's uh history buildings and structures have been aligned along West Main Street.

Um it is only from the period beginning in the 70s that uh that there weren't uh structures uh along that frontage there.

Um what's proposed here uh is part of the largest uh economic development project in this community's history.

Um by any significant uh by any measure inflation adjusted uh the set of developments that that this is one aspect of are the largest um uh investment of any generation and it's uh in the heart of downtown Spartan.

Uh so we think it's important to do it right in terms of historic perspective, but also in terms of long-term viability of the downtown.

Uh across the world, you will see that uh people are drawn to uh streets that are lined with structures on both sides uh like this, and we think we have the we have the ability to make a very um uh good main street uh for the generations to come.

What you see here is part of uh 300 uh million of private investment that is occurring right now.

Uh what will be on the block um uh nearest the the current clock tower is uh uh mixed-use development, including an office building, uh a hotel, and a hotel structure will include a restaurant, um, some retail on the ground floor, um, a rooftop um restaurant bar, uh rooftop pool, uh ballroom, and some other things.

And so our objective uh here is to have a great main street with lots of employment opportunities and lots of uh uh entertainment and and dining options here, and uh so that's the strategic objective we're pursuing.

In this image here, you can see the upper left-hand corner is the ballpark in to the to the uh upper right-hand corner is an office building that will begin construction um very soon, then the AC hotel, and then if you as you come down toward the bottom of the screen, you see an office building, uh, an event venue, hotel uh with restaurant and retail lining, uh the new main street.

Um these are just additional images to show that uh that the street edge that you see here in this image matches where the street edge was for most of Spartanburg's history.

of the screen you see an office building uh an event venue hotel uh with restaurant and retail lining uh the new main street um these are just additional images to show um that uh that the the street edge that you see here in this image matches where the street edge was for most of Spartanburg's history it may not be what we have experienced uh in our lifetimes but it is uh where the street edge was in most of Spartanburg's history uh just a couple of additional uh images there uh one of the commenters earlier talked uh about the the renowned downtowns that are that are praised around and you know with with dining and shopping and retail and restaurants uh that is our aim here and that's why we're um excited to to recommend moving forward with this uh to you all you can see that that has uh potential to to be a very active uh um spot in our in our downtown and continue the the street edge from the AC hotel into the heart of um Morgan Square and further beyond uh so the staff recommendation um uh to you all for for your consideration it uh is to return the clock tower to uh its historic position overlooking the seat of local government restore the bell uh and clockworks into publicly accessible elements in the new building and uh achieve the optimal main street um for the next generation uh so that that is our recommendation and that is of course not new um uh this uh you know has been number of months in in discussion I was asked at the last meeting to uh to investigate um the possibility of uh relocating the clock tower um as you know the current uh clock tower uh that is possible to do um it is not a simple undertaking and it's not uh without cost we believe the cost would be something on between 850 and 900 thousand dollars to de uh depending on the final exact location and the um the nature of the foundation work that wouldn't be necessary and that type of thing but but it is it is possible to do that and um uh were that to be council's will my recommendation would be to downscale uh uh uh some of the planned investment in the the the principal part of Morgan Square to accommodate that cost um and I'm certainly we have we have looked at possible sites um uh for a uh relocated uh clock tower and there are viable options within a block or two um and so I just uh wanted to to add that additional information I am uh happy to answer any questions that you may have uh uh about that and I am seeking uh your direction tonight uh that can come in the form of um of uh a vote to point in whichever direction is the is the will of counsel about about these items and again I think um it is it is sometimes oh awkward when there's strong difference of opinions about about things uh but I think it's terrific that we have uh folks who who care strongly about our downtown and that is the aim um that that I believe was the principal motivator uh uh for for all of these efforts was for this to be a community that celebrated and invested in and continued to uh seek the best of its heart of its city and so I see all of the comments we've heard tonight in that spirit yep thank you Mr.

Story we have any uh questions Mrs.

Megan thank you Chris thank you Mr.

Mayor and thank you to everyone who uh has come tonight to share your opinions on different things um Chris at the end here you just mentioned the other locations we've had a discussion about where those locations might be and one thing that came up in those discussions was that those are all the the two or three spots that we discussed are future spots that have already been um or or that future councils could want to redevelop which would then put our city in the same position we're in now maybe 30 years down the line when we want to redevelop a a corner for who knows what um since there's been a lot of discussion on on that relocation could you share a little bit more about about that sure there uh that is the primary concern that I would elevate from the staff level about some of the potential locations that have that have been suggested um uh as alternative sites for the clock tower and it actually points to I think the original wisdom

Um since there's been a lot of discussion on on that relocation, could you share a little bit more about that?

Sure.

There uh that is the primary concern that I would elevate from the staff level about some of the potential locations that have uh that have been suggested um uh as alternative sites for the clock tower.

And it actually points to I think the original wisdom of of the com of the community and what what we are recommending we do here is to take the to have these historic elements be part of um uh structures that will serve primary purposes beyond just to hold the bell in the clock, um, because that gives some that gives you some uh solidity to it forever.

Um is part of um the function the original function functional purpose.

But we did identify um three locations in the downtown that we think uh we we could physically uh replace the clock tower in uh each of them has uh the potential to be the location of a building footprint at some point in time, which would mean and you know the two of them are uh uh city controlled pieces of property, a third is privately controlled, but uh there may be a willingness to to do this, but all three would be places that in a generation from now you might find would be locations for a multi-story building.

Um and so that's why I haven't um uh recommended any of those three um in addition to the to the primary belief of staff that the clock and bell historically should be part of our government center.

And if we if we if we if we move the clock tower, we obviously don't have the ability to have the clock and bell back in their home in the seat of government pro 10.

Chris, uh thank you.

Um I've already made my opinion known about the the structure of the new clock tower and the architecture of that.

First, I would like to say to Miss Branch, is it Miss Branch?

Um I want to apologize for the threats that you've received.

Um, you know, thank you.

It's uncalled for.

Um I appreciate and acknowledge your passion um and your commitment to you know restoring this as a part of the the city, and um I often think that in our city and other communities across the country we you know tear down a lot of historical pieces that tell a story.

Um, you know, there's many books in in Spartanburg about the north side and the south side and and how easy it is to just sort of erase um what once was.

Um but I do want to apologize to you for um experiencing those threats just for sharing your passion about the clock tower.

Um Chris, it's kind of interesting.

You I believe that was the Liberty Bell in that picture up there.

Um but maybe I'm not a historian, but it came down because there was a crack in it, correct?

I d I don't know.

I'm not a historian.

I know that there is a crack in it, but uh so it was broken.

Uh the bell.

Is our clock tower bell broken?

Correct.

Yeah, there's a crack in the liberty bell.

Yes, I know that much from elementary school.

I don't know.

Oh, I we don't believe so, no.

Okay.

So you know the old saying, if it's not broke, don't fix it.

I mean, you know, we there are things that need to be fixed.

Um, but I the one thing that I love about our downtown is the charmness of it all.

Um you see in a lot of these cities, um, you know, new construction is great, economic boom is great, but you see a lot of the historical elements sort of fade away.

Um so for me personally, um, I can understand the reasons for it needing to be moved, but I'm not in favor of it just being completely torn down.

If we were to look at other options, I would be more in favor of relocating it to another space that folks can still enjoy.

I think I mentioned in the last meeting, um, you know, putting it in a glass cage in the new city county administrative building.

I mean, that's only open during business hours.

So when families are out with their grandkids there's really no opportunity for them to show them a piece of Spartanburg history unless they go during business hours and let's be honest most people are doing things on the weekends with their families because if the kids are in school you know that's that's where they are and so you mentioned the cost to relocate but what would be the cost to you know memorialize it I suspect that would be about the same range too with the type of glass that you would might need um you know and to restore all the pieces and the parts um so you know for me I and and I also say you know if if if it were the council's will to create sort of a memorial piece in the new city county administrative building um I'd be more in favor of it being on the outside so that people could actually access it.

But I do think it's important representative Brennell Lee Price uh former representative that you know if we were to do something of that P of that nature um that it told the true story and the real history um good bad or indifferent the stories still need to be told about the significance of that bill I'm personally not in favor of memorializing it in a county city building I would personally like to see it restored and relocated so that folks in the community can continue to access it whenever they so choose.

Councilman Foreman yeah Chris I was just chatting down some notes I think I think there's sort of six buckets here that we've we've established one one is the the the need to move it.

I mean I think we're all in agreement that that because of the magnitude of project core 450 plus million dollar investment that will bring thousands and thousands of jobs to our downtown already is bringing thousands and thousands of of opportunities via the baseball project as well as the construction workers that'll be coming in to to downtown several hundred new houses tens of thousands of new visitors into our downtown so the need you know has already been established given the the the design characteristics of of what we're trying to do and and then the cost aspect of it Erica's right I mean whatever we do there's going to be a cost associated with it and whatever we do as part of our development agreement that's a cost that that the city bears um you know we we bring certain things to the table from a cost standpoint our partners in the development bring a certain uh you know investment and so we've we we are the ones responsible for that um the um you know I I think Brenda's points about preserving and enhancing the history I think we you know I didn't know until Janie had mentioned to me a year or two about the significance of the bell in in the clock tower and so I I thank her for that and I thank you for that Brenda and and so I think there's an opportunity to enhance that that history um the other thing is that you know if anything else in your in your presentation um I guess it's one of those things that won the more you see it uh the the more you understand but but the one thing that has been constant with the clock over its uh its history is that it moves in some form or fashion it is either moved to new uh seats of government or it is moved uh by the creation of the the the tower itself and and it moved you know to make way for progress in the in the late 80s when the Denny's for then Spartan Foods building was being created there was a plaza created there and and the street was open to vehicular traffic that was all progress and and I think this you know from every I've seen no information that would suggest that the community was concerned about it being moved at that time because they were excited about the opportunities that that that move would create in terms of the downtown jobs that were being created by Denny's and what was hopefully going to be a catalyst for our downtown and it it it did serve over time as a catalyst.

And then you know the last piece is that I do believe it the tower that was created in the in the early I guess the late 70s it has become woven into the fabric of our downtown to Erica's point.

And so you know I've made my preference known all along that that I understand that we have to move it but but I very much want to see us move it and and protect the the the character of that clock tower in its current form in some fashion with those enhancements in the historian you know heritage of it and I think there you know there's probably one location in my mind that stands above the others and and I I would like to see us if we vote to to to in fact tear it down or to move it that I vote we would move it to to a location not put it in the new facility.

Thank you.

Yes.

Councilwoman Little John.

I guess I want to thank Miss Price for sharing the history of the bell.

I too believe that the bell has to be moved.

And um I wish that there was a way for it to be placed in front of the new um city county building.

However, because since there is going to already be a clock there, it's not going to fit.

Um maybe we could place the bell and the clock inside of the new building.

Now that's my thought on it, and I know that everybody I don't agree with that because they want it to be you know someplace where it can be seen after hours as well, but I am in favor of the clock being moved.

To uh to Ms.

Branch, and thank you for bringing that up, uh Mayor Pro Tim.

We do not adhere to any threats of any type because of your opinion on a clock.

Come on now.

Um we do apologize for that to you, and uh we're here with you.

Um about the clock, Mr.

Story, we have we talked with the county.

I know you guys we meet weekly uh about the opportunity, and as uh councilman Farmer mentioned one thing if it is at the new city county complex, could it be a circular phase instead of that gray uh square face up there?

That's one little decorative piece that will stay in harmony with what has come to the governmental buildings.

And uh Mr.

Mayor, I don't have an answer for you about that right now.

I can I can tell you that the that clock that you see in that image is substantially larger.

Right.

Uh you know, it's sometimes a perspective moves on us, you know, in the sense that I mean, you know, that that's like I said almost twice twice as tall.

So in order for the clock to be legible, uh you know, it it needs to be larger in scale than then the current one.

But I won't get into the wheeze about a square or a circle, but just a bigger circle.

And and and to and to that point, though, Mr.

Story, um we would also the display of the bell, thank you, Miss Price.

We've talked about that for some time now, the history of the bell, um, and the face of the original clock tower, which is which is downtown in the inner workings, will be placed somewhere within the new city-county complex.

Councilwoman Lutojan mentioned, is it possible outside where it could be seen daily, weekends, holidays.

There uh the architectural plan for the joint government center includes a plaza that will sit between um the building and uh uh 950 space parking facility that will uh that will be on that block.

Um and uh yes, sir, I do think it's achievable for it to be an elements on that plaza.

I don't have a cost because we really don't we won't really know until we get the get the clock tower elements down and get the right experts to lay eyes on them to know what uh uh would be necessary to make them an interactive display.

Okay, but there would be space that where that could work.

Okay.

Councilwoman Sally.

Yes, um, may I thank you.

Um, and to each and every one of you who voice your opinions on the clock towel and the ordinance, I appreciate that.

But um I think I've already said how I felt about the clock towel and recommendation, and uh not only are we gonna be preserving the bell, but we will be preserving the other end of works of the clock.

So with that being said, and you're talking about the plaza, would you be able to put all of that in that little plaza in between the park garage and the building?

Yes, ma'am.

I believe there'd be adequate space to do that.

Do that.

Um, you know, I don't know which of the elements, uh, you know, which of the aspects would be appropriate to have open to the weather and which would need to be in structures and that type of thing, but there's enough space where it could be done where folks could get to it when the building was closed, we believe.

Okay, and one more thing.

Now, I am not familiar with any building being open after hours like 12 o'clock at night for you to go in and view some historical um artifacts.

But could we not make the if we put it inside the government building, could we not make access uh for open doors to to a certain time period for people to come in and look at and read the information that's provided?

Um I think if if it was important to have night and weekend um uh ability to read about it and get close to it to see it, my recommendation would be on the plaza.

Um, and that's really for this is a it's it's hard again, hard to tell sometimes with images.

This is a very large building.

Right.

And uh so we when it's open, we want to have security uh present and that type of thing.

So um if it were council's will that it would be somewhere where on uh you know an evening or a weekend, you could get close to it.

I think the plaza would need to be where that would be.

Well thank you.

You good.

I'm good.

I just wanted everybody to know that I am for the move of the clock.

So to to to that point as everyone kind of uh positions themselves and give uh uh opinions.

Do I have uh recommendation?

I don't think any more discussion.

A motion.

You are you asking for a motion?

Yes.

Okay, well, I move that we accept the recommendation and present it by the city manager.

Second, all in favor, aye.

All that opposed.

Aye four to two recommendation of the city manager.

We have item nine ordinance to amend chapter 22 offenses of malicious uh pro miscellaneous provision.

I figured they would leave the code of ordinance of the city of Spineberg to add a new section, providing that the persons who violate another section of the city's code or ordinance with the intent to harm, injure, intimidate another person, are persons and whole are part because of the ethnicity, race, color, creed, national origin, religion, uh, ancestry, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or physical or mental disability of the victim is guilty of a separate offense of hate intimidation.

We have Mr.

Robert Cole City attorney as to presenter.

Good evening, mayor and council members.

Uh the item before you is an is an ordinance to amend our city code.

Uh it will add a new section.

The new section will be entitled Hate Intimidation.

Um it reads as follows, and I think it's important to read this slowly and clearly so everybody understands exactly what the ordinance does and depends to do.

It reads, a person who commits a crime in violation of another section of this chapter, or in violation of any state statute, with the intent to harm, injure or damage the person or property of the victim, or to cause the victim to fear harm, injury, or damage to their person or property, because of the victim, because of the actual perceived ethnic ethnicity, race, color, creed, national origin, religion, ancestry, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or physical or mental disability, is guilty of a separate offense of hate intimidation.

Let me summarize that.

An individual who breaks some other law, some other established law, whether it be one of our city codes or one of the state codes that we have jurisdiction over, such as assault and batteries, such as vandalism, they're subject to an additional charge of hate intimidation, um, and they but again they must commit the underlying offense.

And then and only then if the charging authorities believe they committed that offense with the intent to harm or to fear to harm a victim because of one of the things we addressed, they could be charged with another separate offense.

Um as we we've heard a lot tonight, I will tell you the the ordinance I've presented to you.

I believe, based on my 28 years of practice in law, is constitutionally sound.

I think all of the protections of the citizens, including their First Amendment protections, are preserved and not infringed by by this statute.

Um another thing I want to address is that anybody that's charged with this offense, both the underlying offense and if the charging authorities think there was sufficient probable cause for the additional offense, will have a right to have the entire matter heard by a jury of their their peers, just like they do on any other matters.

Um I will tell you that the courts are well equipped to handle the intention the matter of intent.

They do it hundreds of thousands of times every day in terms across this country.

There's criminal intent on every single case that a criminal court hears.

So they're well intent well well positioned and well uh equipped to handle that.

Um other thing I want to address before I be quiet and let's take your questions.

Um this is not an attack on or an infringement upon free speech.

As a matter of fact, the city of Spartanburg cherishes free speech.

Remember in 2019, we passed our protesting ordinance, and it says anybody who is is expressing free speech, whether that speech is vile, rude, offensive, disgusting, is protected.

And it's against our laws for somebody to interfere with them, and our police will circle them and will protect their free speech.

So this is not an attack on anybody's free speech.

Um with those things being said, um, it's first reading, it would need a motion and a second and and a vote tonight, and we'd have a second reading.

Um I addressed a couple of things I think people brought up, but I want to I'm glad now to take any questions to try to educate or address any additional concerns you have based on what you've heard from me tonight, what you've read, and what you've uh heard from some members of the audience.

Okay.

Questions for Mr.

Cole.

Yes.

Um you missed the meeting, so we expect I did.

I was not here last time, yes.

Uh Bob, thank you for reading it out loud.

Had you not done that, I was going to do it.

I think I'm not sure what people read before coming tonight, but um I heard a lot of folks expressing concern about having their religion infringed upon, their speech.

And if you felt like we were going to do that, then you should show up tonight and make sure that your local government does not infringe upon your right to free speech and practice your religion and all of those things.

And there was also several comments about hate material, but nowhere in this does that mention distribution of materials.

You just to reiterate, you have to commit a crime that we already have on the books.

We are not creating any sort of new classification of crime that does not already exist.

Exactly.

Right.

Um what was my question?

Maybe I was just wanting you to reiterate the the hate materials piece and the and the free speech part.

And this will not in any way infringe people's ability to come down to the city of Spartanburg on public property and express their free free speech just like they've been doing for decades, if not a century, and again, just like we enshrined in 2019 and said we've got an ordinance on the books that protects that right, and we take that seriously.

So this is this is simply, as you said, if you commit a an offense of a of a statute or a crime that we have jurisdiction over, and the charging authority, the police think that you did so with the intent to harm somebody because of one of these factors, you can be charged separately, but again, your entire matter will be heard before a jury of your peers, and that all of that will be sorted out, and and you'll have your opportunity to express any defenses or challenges.

Come in.

Mr.

Mayor Bob, just it could you give an example?

For instance, I've I heard a lot of comments about folks, you know, infringement on their free speech or their religion, etc.

Um, I walk the trails often.

Um the Mary Black Trail, I walk uh downtown very often.

There are a number of um religious uh folks with uh pamphlets that I see each day, I stop and talk to them.

We may not feel the same or agree on the same things, but certainly there's never been any, you know, animosity or any or or hate towards one another.

Um so for example, I guess what we're saying is is what's already on the books.

So let's say, for example, assault uh would be on the books.

If if someone were to attack these individuals based on the materials that they are passing out based on their religion, then something like this could be applicable.

That's exactly right.

Um so it's not a person on the corner talking about how much they love Jesus, or in my case, talking about how much I love my wife.

It is simply saying that this can be added to an offense that is already on the books.

That's right.

This this has very little to do with people expressing their free speech or constitutional rights.

This shifts the the paradigm.

This is if the actor, if the criminal does something because of uh their intent to harm you because of the color of your skin, your religion, your um creed or beliefs, then the actor could be charged with an additional fact.

So classic example.

If we never do this, but if I were to punch Mitch Kennedy, um I'm gonna get charged.

You'd be making a mistake.

I would I would be charged with assault and battery.

If the charging authority could do prove that I did that solely because of something about him, the color of his skin, the where he goes to church, where he practices, I could be subject to an additional charge.

As of now, I could not be, I would just punch him.

And I'd be charged with assault and battery.

And I'd have a probably long day in the hospital.

But that's a classic example.

Same thing.

If I were to vandalize uh a church because I just want to, I'm just a vandal.

If I did that because I do not like Baptists, I'm subject to an additional charge of hate, in addition to the vandalization of the church.

That's that's that's what this ordinance does.

It adds an additional element to be charged and proven by the state if the evidence supports it.

Any other yeah, um Bob, thank you for for this draft.

I think I think this draft is narrower in scope and and um I think addresses many of the concerns that were expressed by by folks in the community who had some reservations about this, specifically because of what you have said about you know, it it does not address speech.

It doesn't, which I think some of the drafts that we saw uh some of the organizations promote, I think kind of over uh a lot of overreach there in some of those areas that that gave me great concern um, you know, as to the constitutionality of it, also the enforceability of it, because you know, one of the things that I think we need to to really ensure is that you know that we are giving clear a clear message to our law enforcement community that we're giving them a tool that they can use in the event that they run into these situations.

And I know that other municipalities have across the state have passed something similar.

Do we know specifically how many people have been charged into this ordinance in in those communities?

Across the state?

I do not I don't have I can get that number for you, but again, um of the 23, I think there's 23 municipalities and counties that have passed this, and and to say it's substantially similar as an understatement.

It is almost identical language, the meat of it.

Again, it's it's the product of a lot of deep and uh intense research by some pretty smart lawyers across the state that have produced something that uh achieves an intent and is also constitutionally sound and doesn't infringe on somebody's free speech.

And what's the enforcement?

I mean, what's the penalty associated with the violation of this this ordinance?

Same with any anything else in our city court, up to 30 days and up to 500 at the discretion of the judge.

So there's no, I think one of the speakers mentioned something about some sort of re-education class or or anything like that.

There's no civil, this doesn't make you any more or less uh susceptible to civil penalties or anything associated with that like what was mentioned.

Not at all, and as a matter of fact, one of the speakers was concerned about civil lawsuits.

This has nothing to do with giving anybody the ability to file any civil lawsuits.

The the language that the speaker was concerned about is there's an opportunity if somebody gets charged with this, they can go do community service.

And if the judge agrees that that community service satisfies their debt to the to the state, they the judge could waive the fines and penalties and give them credit for that community service.

Perhaps washing off the graffiti that they put no class.

No, no, no.

I mean, you just I mean No, there's no there's no re-education program.

I mean, there's no there's there's no book to unlearn hate.

So it's it's what's right here in what you've been taught.

I mean, that is a it is an adult disease, period.

And I do have concerns that that people will look at this ordinance and think it gives them some false sense of security.

You know, to me, what we need to be clear about is what this ordinance is and what it is not.

It does not make anybody specifically safer by passing it if if that's the will of counsel because it's really just declarative, right?

I mean, it it it includes a small fine or or penalties associated with uh what uh what is otherwise could be a much greater crime, you know, assault and battery, vandalism, you know, anything like that that would carry really the weight of justice with it as opposed to the $500 fine or the 30-day penalty.

Yeah, yeah, the the penalty is nominal because again, we are jurisdictionally limited at the city municipal court level to 30 days or 500 fine.

I I would say that uh hopefully that these ordinances begin to change some behavior.

You know, there was a time when CDV criminal dust and violence charges didn't exist, it was all assault and battery.

Society decided, well, that's not the perfect path, let's have another path.

And the intent was for domestic abuse to go down, whether it achieved that or not, you know, those studies will continue.

But certainly this would be an analogous and anomalous to that approach, that perhaps someday it will change behavior.

Yeah, and and much like that.

I mean, I think it's important to declare we can't necessarily legislate hate, but but but but but that's in people's hearts and minds.

Um and and you know, we see all too often in today's society that that you know we have hate by any number of different definitions creep into into everyday world.

And so, you know, but we can say that we are against hate, and and that uh we don't want to see hate exist in our community to the extent that we can.

And and so it seems like this gives some uh you know it is a nod to that aspect of it, but but it is not something that that provides the weight of law or justice that will that will change you know people's hearts and minds.

Hopefully down the road it could, but but on its face, I'm I'm I'm not as convinced.

Definitely uh councilwoman Ludajan.

Yes, Bob.

Um my only concern about this is that our police have a lot of things now that they have to deal with.

And you read the police report question, you see some of the things that people call on, it just blows my mind.

And uh having this in place, you know, but this or it's I can see the police report growing more and more.

I think it's going to be abuse.

I personally do believe, you know, that this is going to be abused by some people who are going to use this as a tool.

However, I am in favor of passing it.

But it won't add any of the the number of assault and batteries we're gonna have in October this year are gonna happen.

Right.

If if we have 30, if four of those have the qualifying factors to add this additional offense, we could have four of these charges in addition to 30.

But I don't anticipate and I don't see any logic.

Can we keep the comments down, please?

Can I mean this won't increase the number of underlying offenses that are charged that are coming?

Um behind Tony, uh Tanner, uh Mitch, we have a couple let's let's keep the chat.

Just you just can can you just watch it right here?

Uh just uneasy.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Bob.

Uh I just I think so.

Ruth, you understand no one can be charged with this separately.

It is you've been charged with a crime, and if a person committed a crime against another one and in that act was like, it's because you're Jewish or whatever, whatever, whatever, this can be added to it.

And the burden would fall more on the prosecutor to prove intent.

There will be no additional burdens to our police.

That's exactly right.

That the if the police if the police are working as an assault and battery case, and they think that that that the actor committed the assault and battery because of some hate towards the the victim.

The officer, again, we'll probably consult with city attorney and our prosecutor, and and and but you're right.

When we get to court, it will be on the prosecutor to convince a jury that not only did they commit assault and battery, but they committed it with the intent to harm or injure the victim because of their race.

And again, courts are very well equipped with dealing with intent.

Obviously, you can never look inside somebody's head, but you are allowed to look at the factors that surround the incident to figure out what someone's intent was.

So I understand that, but that doesn't stop the person from calling the police.

And that's the point that I was trying to make.

And that's what I was trying to get over.

And that's a that's you know, that's a fair point and valid point.

Our police are well trained to get out there and and and understand that if there's not been an underlying offense committed, there's not much in it, there's nothing else they can do.

And we see, I mean that I had that concern as well, Ruth, but but but we see you know on a daily basis where you know police are called for a concern, they get there, they investigate, they determine the fact patterns, and then they decide that it's not to the level of whatever crime they've been called out to investigate.

So I know it has another call.

For sure, for sure.

Uh I mean as you stated, but I would I would think if there's a situation like that that rises to the level of concern that that having the police at least present in that in that uh interaction, you know, might help to to you know make everybody safe.

Bob I and I know we we've gone uh back and forth with uh uh the different languages uh for this ordinance and and we do appreciate your time and efforts and um mirroring some of the other uh municipalities across the state as we try to uh do what's best for Spartanburg, not any other place, but really Spartanberg, and we can be that example uh to others as to how we want to live and how we want our citizens to feel here in Spartanburg.

Um and with that being said, um do I hear a motion or any other?

I make a motion that on first reading we adopt the language as presented to add the separate offensive hate intimidation seconds you got a motion and properly second.

All in favor?

Aye, any that opposed thank you.

I have it.

Thank you.

All right, guys.

All right, we're trying to finish up.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

All right, all right, all right.

Thank you.

Shh.

All right, we still have a resolution to authorize the city manager, look like it's Bob Kohler, to uh quit claim D for a portion of Branch Street.

Mr.

Cola.

Mr.

Mayor and Council members.

Um the overhead here is not as as helpful as I'd hoped.

You have in your packet, I think exhibit one.

If you look at that, that's probably gonna be more helpful to you.

Um before you is a resolution um authorizing the city manager to ex execute what's known as a quick claim deed.

It's just a a document that says that we are expressing no ownership interest in a piece of land, and what we've got um is is branch street used to run from Maine all the way uh across and through, as you can see from your uh handout, the it's it's been closed for decades, and I've marked with a little grid across the the closed part uh which runs through Wakefield Buick.

That when the street was closed, we can't find any evidence that that the city ever disowned it or gave the property to Wakefield or had no more interest in it.

So this is a housekeeping matter.

Wakefield has had their parking lot and buildings over this closed alleyway.

Again, it walked out there, you wouldn't notice the difference for a long time.

What we're asking you to do is authorize the city manager to execute a document in favor of Wayfield to say we're no longer interested in that piece of land, we're not selling it to you, we're not saying it, we own it, we're giving it to you.

We're just saying we have no ownership interest, and um then they can proceed with I think they're going through some some probably financing and they need some clarity to their titles.

So that's all this is is to say we don't want any, don't have any interest in it, we don't we don't own it.

It's it's we're done.

We we'll maintain branch street, but only up to the call to say.

And and just so I'm clear, is that piece whether cars are currently yes, yes.

So we're not given a quick quit claim deed to the piece of branch street that correct.

Correct.

Just the gridded mark, right?

That's on your not on your uh diagram that they use and has been there for years.

This exhibit will go on to the to the register of deeds, and that'll show exactly what we're disavowing or expressing no ownership interest.

I said it's it's more of a housekeeping matter from decades ago.

Gotcha.

And it's a resolution, so if you're approve of it, it'd be motion a second and uh vote for one reason.

All right.

Make a motion we approve the resolution.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any that opposed?

Ayes have it.

Thank you.

Staff update.

Mr.

Mayor, I have several items uh uh I know you don't want to hear that.

Um, but uh but I do um uh want to just get a a couple things in the record and then I have uh one more serious topic I'm gonna comment on.

Uh the fur but the more straightforward items is is just to tell you before we meet again, uh we will um have fire prevention week, which is October 6th through 10th, and on Sunday, October 12th at the new Central Fire Station from 2 to 5 that afternoon uh will be an open house.

Uh so that is um Sunday, October 12th, 2 to 5 p.m.

open house at the new Central Fire Station.

Also, before we meet uh again, uh we will have the one year anniversary of Hurricane Helene.

Uh and uh uh I remain very proud of uh the team's response to that.

Uh I just wanted to give you, you know that uh uh several times this year you've heard uh uh uh representations of the volume of work that our team um and our contracted partners uh performed this year.

Um we moved 56,715 cubic yards of debris.

That is the the cost of that um was about 775 dollars for every man, woman, and child in the city.

Um now we are pursuing reimbursement uh for that, but that is a uh a significant uh added activity.

That debris would fill 155 Olympic size swimming pools.

Uh it would cover 24 football fields to a depth of 10 feet.

It would cover one football field nearly as tall as the Denny's Tower.

Uh if you stacked it uh on one football field, it would it would reach the the height of 238 feet.

Um if you covered uh uh 12 foot lane of uh of a road uh um three feet deep with that debris, it would cover 72 miles.

There's a whole lot of stuff that was moved um and the city was hit particularly hard in comparison to the rest of the the county area.

Um and I'm just really um impressed and proud of the team.

Also impressed with the uh empathetic response of our team through our disaster assistance program.

You know, it was a dis additional resources that were available for folks um uh who um uh had financial hardship associated with this that they couldn't have recovered from insurance or uh or other uh types of resources or uh FEMA or other sources of relief funding.

And with that disaster assistance program administered here by the city, uh we've we've done 34 roof repairs, um 33 uh 32 tree removals, and we think before we're done, we will um uh affect a hundred uh residences with that disaster relief program.

So I think as we look back on um uh Hurricane Helene, we can take away uh a great deal of positive about the spirit of this community as well as the the good performance of the men and women of the city team with that.

And um as we reach the actual anniversary, we'll use our public information um channels, social media and the like to share uh additional tidbits of information.

Chris, you know what I'll ask but you you said we're seeking reimbursement.

Is there any update from FEMA on getting that money actually reimbursed to us?

Uh no, but also no negative signs, and we're working closely with the state and with FEMA representatives, and we we use a third party uh um consultancy that with expertise from other disaster areas um to ensure that we're that we're working through that and all all signs are very positive.

But Dennis didn't have any anything to say.

Our financial guy, I mean, of course, Chris as well, but Dennis feel good about the situation as well.

Dennis, yes, we we think things are as they should be, um, and we're appreciative of the cooperation with the the state, and particularly, I should say, while I'm commenting on it, the county uh uh the county has uh facilitated um and made a quick gap time decision uh to facilitate a much more efficient uh way of doing debris removal countywide by collaborating with the municipalities, and that they frankly didn't have to do that, but it had served the mutual interest of everybody uh very well.

So we we're appreciative of of that and um uh appreciate our partnership with that.

Um but with those items, Mr.

Mayor.

I wanted to to pivot to one that is a bit more serious, and that is um uh we've suffered uh over the weekend, we've suffered an another um senseless uh uh act of gun violence involving um resulting in the death of a of a of a teenager.

And um there have been several, and and these are not random acts of violence.

That is the important uh and important aspect of this understanding is these are not random acts of violence.

They are um the result of some systemic uh breakdowns that are that are complex, but we are our hearts are heavy about uh about these um awful um activities, including the one over the the weekend, and um we are employing all the resources that we can bring to bear on it, but we need um the assistance of the community to to get the the right outcomes.

I asked uh uh Chief Thompson if he'd be willing to make some comment uh to to the way the community can help us um and ensure that we're protecting the the safety of our community as well as supporting these young men who who are uh unfortunately caught up into this activity.

Thank you, thank you, Chief.

I wish the room was still just this packed talking about the clock and uh hate crime bill, but we're talking about lives here now, what's really at hand.

So thank you for being here.

Yes, sir.

Honorable mayor and distinguished counsel, I humbly come before you to share a little information, and just to remind you of one thing.

We just barnbury police department and the lifesaving business.

There's not another entity in our city that is impacted like those of us who are called in to protect and to serve.

Although we understand that public safety is the entire community's responsibility, we take it institutionally personal when there's an unnatural loss of life, especially those lives cut short by violence.

Our folks are dedicated, committed to forming to perform it to the best of their abilities to provide the safest community we possibly can.

And I think we do it as well as any despite we're not we're humble organization as well.

We don't pound our chests on our successes, and we spend our time with our nose to the ground working on those things that still need to be done.

Folks that are well equipped, well-trained, experienced professionals, but we need your help to reduce the gun violence.

The root causes of which are complex and exceed our capacity to address loan.

Despite our law enforcement acumen and investigative province, we cannot solve society problem.

Case in point.

He was, my apologies.

All three homicides were calculated and planned, not random acts of violence.

And there's another similarity worth noting.

Our investigation and investigators are operating in an information vacuum.

The lack of cooperation, information sharing, and disclosures by those with knowledge and insight that could assist these and other investigations to continue to persist.

The continuous failure to cooperate with law enforcement, which creates time and space for even more acts of violence.

Those who withhold what they know have the key that could solve the cases and bring those responsible to justice.

But although we're making progress, because we make excuses, we make a way.

We're going to do our part.

Without active engagement and information from witnesses, our investigators and investigators are working akin to you taking the puzzle and turning it face down.

The only thing you see is the carboard backing to try to solve an investigation.

So I'm asking for those with knowledge regarding any of these cases or any criminal activity that's been taking place in our city to please contact us.

Provide whatever information you may have.

And I must reiterate that the core principle of community policing, community order and policing is public safety is the entire community's responsibility.

We all have a rule or role to play.

With that said, I do want to extend appreciation to the Sparbury Clergy Initiative for meeting with members of our SBD SPD team to offer their assistance and to help alleviate the pain and suffering currently being experienced within our community.

I also value and appreciate the collaboration with the Sparnbury County Sheriff's Office.

Our respective investigative teams meet weekly to share actionable intelligence and advise strategic operations, which we frequently take part in.

So I encourage each of each and every one of you, your organizations, your entities, your communities to get involved.

But I can tell you the answer to our problem, like I said, it's widespread, and it starts at home.

So I encourage you again to get involved.

If you see something, hear something, say something, but better yet, do something.

And if the only thing you do is can contact us at 864596-2065 with the group be greatly appreciated.

And you can also reach out to Crime Stoppers at 1888 Crime SC.

Again, I just want to say that there's no easy button.

And we won't stop until we bring those folks to justice, whether we have help or not.

Again, public safety is our entire responsibility.

And that the agency is only good as the community that represents.

We have a tremendous community.

We're honored to serve you each and every day.

We're gonna give it all that we got amid the criticism and what have you.

It matters not because as I said, no, no one hears more about this than us.

We're in a life-saving business.

Thank you, Chief.

Uh, any other questions of Chris uh for staff updates?

Are we going into council updates?

No, I want to come in.

Um Chief, I want to thank you and your department, you know, for the work that you're doing.

And I will say, you know, when I contact you all, I always get a response.

I have um Jennifer Kendall on Speed Doll.

And when I get with her, because she always responds, and I want to thank you all, and I hope, you know, go when I have concerns, or I make a complaint that you're not taking it personally.

Uh, you have to keep in mind that it's been a lot going on in my district, and I know that if people would talk.

I don't know the reason.

Well, the one person said, I don't want to, I don't want to talk to police because the police is gonna tell that I told something.

And I said, no, but you have to do it in confidence because I know some people that have told things and they have not been revealed.

So you have to do that.

And I just don't want you to take my complaints personally, because I have the greatest respect for our police department.

And I brag on you all because you're not brag on everybody because so I don't want you to think that I'm doing this.

No, and I'm not trying to cut you off.

Thank you, Councilwoman Lojan.

But I do want um, Chief, what's the um anonymous number?

We can call and not give information.

Yeah, 864596222.

22.

Yes, yeah.

22 emergency number and you can not to be contacted.

Thank you, Chair.

But Mr.

Dunn, I can tell you that I do not take it personal.

I'm a professional, so all the people that work with me.

And when I come every day, like I said, I'm here to serve you, but also serve someone who called me this hybrid here.

We know who calling that in.

All right, updates.

Yeah, not much.

Thanks for sticking with us, everyone.

I'm proud of our city tonight.

Um, I have a flag hanging in front of my house that says abide no hatred, and I'm glad that um our city after the first reading agrees.

So thank you all.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Louie John.

I had a long update.

However, I'm not gonna say that, but I do want to thank Jay.

And I want to thank uh um shucks.

My mind would blank all of us.

I want to thank the mayor.

I want to thank Jay, you know, for all of the things that he's doing because I have him on speed down too.

Okay.

And Martin and Martin, I have them on speed down.

Thank y'all.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Sally.

Thank you.

Again, I'll say thank you to everyone who was here who presented their views.

Also, I want to say that I attended Juni White's memorial on this past Sunday, uh the 14th.

And it was awesome.

And I wish that the entire Spartanburg County, uh City and County could have come out to the memorial to witness such a beautiful affair.

Um just past Tuesday, I and several more people uh want to say congratulations to someone who has worked 50 years at the Spartanburg headquarters librarianess, Evelyn Parks.

Wow.

It's it's amazing someone who can work that long, and she's still gonna be there volunteering.

Um put my glasses on, I can't read my own right in here.

Oh, yeah.

My husband and I celebrate 40 years, 48 years of being married on this past congratulations, congratulations.

Um the 26th, which is Friday at 4 o'clock.

If you're interested, we're doing a tour of the Sea House, the oldest home in Spartanburg, and I would just like for you all to come to see some of the renovation work that has been done.

We've still got more to do, but we're proud of where we are.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Foorn.

Yeah, just in the interest of time, uh, just want to thank everybody for being here tonight and for their contributions to the discussion and the dialogue and and um you know uh the these conversations are always easy given the fact that that um we have differing viewpoints, but but that's what makes America great.

And and so uh I appreciate everybody's contribution to the dialogue.

Thank you, Mayor Pro T.

Mayor, thank you for everyone for being here and participating.

Uh, it's so great to see when folks are truly truly engaged and passionate about the issues that matter to them.

So thank you everyone for participating.

Um October 4th International Festival.

It's one of my favorite festivals of the year.

Um, it's from 11 to 7 at Barnard Barnett Park.

It's free.

I believe the host country is Paraguay.

Um I eat my weight and all the foods around the country.

Um, so it's a really great um event, and it's awesome to be able to experience.

We have a very rich deep number of folks from different cultures all across Spartanburg County, so it's really wonderful to see everyone come together for that event.

Um, I also want to thank Jay and his team and Randall.

We have been working on some safety concerns over in the north side as well as the police department.

Captain Suber, I see you.

I know you're tired of hearing from me, but I do appreciate you always being so responsive.

Um we have a plan in place, and we're working towards some of those items that are of concern to the community.

Um and then September 29th, I believe that's next Monday.

Uh Wafford College will be hosting their second installment of Candid Conversations.

Um that event is going to be at 6 o'clock.

Um the sister senators, it'll be a panel discussion moderated by former South Carolina representative Rita Allison.

Um really the the goal is to, you know, bridging together leaders from across the aisle to foster civil discourse around issues in our current political climate.

So I think that'll be a really great event.

Um there will also be a reception.

Um the event at Wafford is free, but if you're interested in in um attending the reception afterwards, um it'll be at the Clevedale Inn.

There are tickets available, and you'll get a little sneak peek into the documentary that they are um going to be um unveiling soon.

So it's really a good time for folks, you know.

As we know, most of those representatives are from it's it's truly bipartisan, which is good to see.

Um, we don't see a lot of that often anymore.

So um it would be a great event and very informative to come out and hear from these fierce lady leaders.

So thank you.

Thank you.

We gave the uh proclamation for national night out, but before we have another meeting, we will have nice national night out.

So participate with your neighborhood.

If you um do not have a neighborhood association or someone that's participating, please join one very near and dear to you.

Uh again, thank everyone for coming out this evening, being a part of the discussion uh this evening.

Yes, ma'am.

I think Chris is buying everyone dinner meeting for keeping us all here so keeping us out and keeping us here so long.

But but thank you to to to everyone here, and again uh to to one thing uh Chief Thompson said, he doesn't take it personal, but you know what?

I take it personal when we're not doing something the right way.

I truly do.

And uh this this senseless killings we have to find a remedy as to how we can help these young people.

So thank you all for being here.

I hear a recommendation, Mr.

Mayor, if I must.

And second, all in favor.

See your senior folks before we leave.