I'm going to call this meeting to order.

It is 703 p.m.

My name is Chair Sanford.

This is the Operation Parks and Rec meeting.

Today is Thursday, April 23rd, 2026.

In attendance for the committee, I have myself, Representative Politia, Representative Beckham, Representative Didalo, Representative Finkel, Representative Salais, and Representative Zachary.

From the rest of the board, I have Representative Hill, President Shaw, Representative Morrison, Representative Gross, and from the administration from the administration I have uh I'm sorry, Representative.

From the administration, I have uh Director Turk and Tyler Theater.

Uh is that everyone?

I believe so.

So at this time, uh have three items on the agenda.

OPR 32.009, a resolution waiving the requirements of section 21-3B of the code of ordinances in order to name the Stanford High School Baseball Softball and Soccer Fields for the names set forth in the resolution.

Item two, OPR 32.010 resolution naming of the Stanford High School Baseball, Softball and Soccer Fields with the names is set forth in the resolution.

And then item three, OPR 32.008, a review of the city's snow removal process and snow emergency preparedness.

At this time, if I have a I'll entertain a motion to take up item one, OPR 32.009.

So moved.

And second discussion.

Is there any discussion?

I will open it up to rep uh to President Shaw who introduced the item.

I know she sent some information out, but if she wants to expand a little bit, I'll go ahead and let her go ahead, ma'am.

The floor is yours.

Thank you so much, Chair Sanford.

I apologize.

I'm in like a noisy place.

I'm at one of those education excellence awards present, you know, event, and it's I'm just sitting there.

So um I I've given all the information.

I just wanted to just give a summary that um that, you know, um, and I know Chris, the director of athletics from Stanford High School, Mr.

Passimano had sent more information as well.

Basically, where the waiver is for um uh waiving the requirements because the way the we the rules the or ordinances reads is we have to if we're naming something, uh a park or a facility, uh a city facility on someone that's still alive.

We have to get the board has to um sign, you know, approval waiver.

So that's the reason for which these names have been introduced.

Um, and then the resolution that kind of goes along with it, which is our second item here.

Um I I we've given all the information that we've uh we we have.

I think it's a great honor to have these people recognized, um, especially when they're you know at their stages now um and what they've done for Stanford High School.

Not only they've graduated from there, but they've worked there for many, many years, you know, 30 years, 42 years, and they've done so much.

So I I think that this is a small thing that we we owe to them and recognize them and honor them.

Um so I uh I hope the board approves this and we can move forward.

So thank you and I yield.

Thank you, President Shaw.

Is there anyone else from the committee or outside of the committee?

And I appreciate the president for submitting these items.

I agree.

Um Sheila, I don't see anybody unless you see someone.

So without any other discussion, I will go ahead and take a vote for approving uh this item OPR 32.009.

Uh all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any oppose.

See no opposed, that item passes.

And I believe Representative Bradford is now in attendance.

So I believe it's 800, Sheila.

I could be wrong.

Uh yes, that's what I have.

Okay, thank you.

Um moving on, I will entertain a motion now to take up item OPR 32.010.

So move.

Is there a second?

I have a uh a motion and a second.

Uh discussion.

Any discussion for item number two.

I don't see any hands.

I think the information we were given uh in the resolution itself from Mr.

Passumano and from uh President Shaw was uh very sufficient.

So I'm not going to continue on.

So seeing no hands or discussion, I will go ahead and take this to a vote.

Uh all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any oppose.

And I thank you everyone for the hard work on that as well.

Uh moving on to item number three, OPR 32.008.

Uh this is a review item of the city's snow removal process and snow emergency preparedness.

Uh I'm gonna preface it with this is that I received a note from the administration that our um our guest was not going to be here.

I think it was a complete mix-up in communication.

Having said that, I uh I asked to hold the item so the guest could be here, and now he is here.

So I don't want to waste the administration's time and Director Turk's time.

However, because of the miscommunication, if there is a desire on the committee to hold it, I will uh and I would recommend that if that's what we choose to do.

I I I will lean on representative gross when we open up for discussion.

Um, but let's let's maybe have the discussion.

We'll see what people want to do while we have them on the line.

So at this time I'll entertain a motion to take up item OPR 32.008.

Um Do I have a motion with that item?

Don't move, don't move.

Second.

Is there a second?

Second, second.

Is there any discussion?

I will go ahead and open it up to Representative Gross uh as the submitter of the item.

I'll lean on you on what you want to do.

I know you submitted some awesome questions that were distributed to the board.

Uh however, with the mix up and communication, I I didn't know if it's something you want to go ahead with tonight or if it's something with that you would want to put off.

I I know we've wanted to talk about it for a long time, so I'll I'll hear your out.

I'll hear you out going.

So you have the floor, sir.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, this I submitted this item sort of back in February when we're having um, you know, all the sort of issues with um, you know, around the blizzard.

Um, you know, obviously crazy snowfall this past season.

Um, you know, our operations department was certainly sort of overwhelmed.

Um, and from a constituent service angle, you know, I got you know many, many emails um from people um just concerned with um the snow cleanup, you know, a lot of snow being left, you know, in the streets, um, you know, a lot of sort of parking issues, um, cases where uh, you know, maybe they plowed their their uh you know in front of their driveway and the the sidewalk in front of their house, um, but then the city sort of plowed it back.

Um, and sort of just a lot of frustration with the the snow cleanup.

Obviously, it's a sort of you know, it's a lot to lot to handle.

Um, and I understand there was sort of changes in um the sort of transportation department um, you know, in the past year that might have made this sort of response um a little more difficult to coordinate.

Um so I sort of submitted the item just to really get a you know, so in order so that we can better serve our constituents and better answer constituent questions, um, to just really get a you know a sort of comprehensive uh you know presentation breakdown of of just sort of what the what the process is um for snow cleanup and snow removal.

Um and so I submitted you know a list of you know questions that I could think of, questions that have come to me from sort of constituents.

Um I haven't had you know that much time to dive into um you know the the answers, the brief answers that um Mr.

Turk has provided.

Um I was you know I was sort of hoping for more of you know a presentation rather than just a QA.

Um I'm not and I'm you know I'm not sure if other people on the board you know have submitted questions or have sort of obviously, you know, we're not in that season anymore, but I I sort of you know I submitted this during the season and really sort of just wanted to get ahead of the um next season.

So, you know, I don't know if you know, like for instance, you know, just looking briefly at some of the answers, you know, our salt trucks and plows, you know, dispatch, you know, they're assigned to set plow outs, you know.

I mean it, you know, it might be helpful, for instance, to to look at um you know maps of the plow routes.

Like I'm I'm really just sort of trying to understand so that we can you know serve um you know our constituents as best as possible.

Um so I don't know if Mr.

Turk, if that's sort of you know if you're able to sort of put together you know, sort of presentation or if it'd be more helpful for people, you know, if you know, maybe if they have more time, if they can put together some slides or or something like that.

Um but uh yeah, so those are my thoughts.

If if that's I I understand what you're where you're coming from, Representative Gross.

Is that something, Director Turk, that is possible if we were to possibly delay this to have maybe more of an overview of snow removal operations and kind of more of a presentation of how things work if we were to uh maybe delay it until until next month?

Are you referring to removal of snow off the streets because of the two major storms, or are you just talking about general snow response?

Because they're two different things.

Probably combining them, and I don't want to speak for representing or an overall kind of presentation of how things work.

I I don't want to speak for representative gross, but I can speak as as a as a rep myself that I too received a handful of complaints.

Um basically you know, somewhat of the quality, I guess, of the snow plowing where entire streets or neighborhoods at times were missed.

Um, so there might be an idea where we do a presentation of what happens when you know we are predicting a snowstorm and and you know what routes and how that works and how long you know a shift lasts, and then also what happens when you know uh a street is missed.

Do people put in fix it tickets and you take 500 fix it tickets, or do you just text somebody and you send someone over right away?

Like I think you could probably combine the two things that you talked about into one kind of presentation in a way.

Um I have a couple of hands up, so let me jump over there to get represent I don't know who came up first.

So representative Finkel and then Representative Didalo.

So Representative Finkel, go ahead.

Uh thank you, Chair.

Uh Director Turk, one of the questions that was asked of me uh during the snowstorm cleanup was after the snow plows go through.

Many of the crosswalks ended up being snowed in and made it difficult for people to cross the streets.

And moving forward, are we going to be able to have some sort of policy in place that after that operation is done that we can go back and clear the crosswalks so people can get across the street?

Thank you.

I'm gonna jump in real quick because the question I had was you know, do we continue with the debate tonight?

Um, or delay it.

And I think I'm gonna make the call and say while we have everybody on, let's have the discussion.

If we feel like we need more information, then we can recommit to steering and have another discussion next month.

I think that will satisfy everyone.

So I'll go ahead, Director Turk, if you can go ahead and answer Reference Finkel's question, and then we can go we can just move on to more questions from there.

Well, let's start by discussing how the questions are framed, because everybody using general terms, you know, when when he says crosswalks, most of you guys are probably picturing the two or three around your house or near your job, but there's probably a thousand.

I I mean, who knows how many are within the city?

So to answer your question, well, also all these complaints came up this year because we had 18 inches of snow for one storm, and then four weeks later we had another 24 inches of snow, and in between those four weeks, we had sub-freezing weather where nothing melted, so it all built up.

So if we talk in generalities, it's gonna be hard for me to just say, yes, I will clean every crosswalk in the city within 24 hours.

That's that's not physically possible.

That's why we have the ordinance where each property owner is supposed to have the responsibility of taking care of their sidewalk.

What's a gray area is crosswalks, because usually somebody owns the property at the corner, right?

It's not a vacant lot.

Somebody lives on the corner, and what happens is they'll they'll clean the sidewalk, but this the area between the sidewalk and the actual street gets blocked up, and then it becomes well, who's technically responsible for that?

And then you got to look at what are we doing during the 24 inches of snow.

We can't go around cleaning crosswalks in the middle of a blizzard.

We have to focus on the streets.

So I just wanna caution everybody, there's not gonna be simple yes or no, or we missed it.

Answers with very general questions.

Like the other one was, well, you missed my street.

What time did we miss your street?

Was it in the middle of the storm?

And for an example, for a plow truck to do their route one time, it takes about five hours to do every road in that on that map.

It's one time, it takes five hours.

So if it's snowing an inch an hour, and they go by your street and clean it, by the time they get back to it, it's gonna have five inches of snow on it.

And and everybody's like, you never plowed our road.

There's five inches of snow.

We did plow the road, but we gotta plow all the other roads.

And there's time in between the plowing.

And then if it is snowing heavily, one to two inches an hour, we won't go to your road for a while because we have to focus on the main roads.

We have to make sure emergency vehicles can get around town and get to wherever they need to go, fire, ambulance, EMS, police.

So it's not as simple as they didn't plow my road.

Not everybody's staring out the window all day, all night during a storm, seeing if we pass by or not.

So it's it's not that simple to answer your questions, like, oh, I'm sorry, I missed your road, we'll get to it next time.

And maybe it is better that I create a presentation to go over how everything works and the volume of what we're dealing with.

It's 320 miles of road times at least two, because you got to do each side of the road.

And it's actually more than that, because some of the roads are four lanes, like Summer Street or Bedford gets wide.

So it's not as simple.

Why can't 50 people clean the whole city in an hour?

Kind of thing.

So I can answer your questions, but maybe a presentation, like you suggested with maps.

I can put pictures of the trucks.

We do try to do crosswalks, but it's there's a lot of timing involved.

There's a lot of prioritizing.

Dead ends are always last.

Nobody likes that, but we can't spend time on six houses when Bedford Street is getting clogged up.

It doesn't matter if your cul-de-sac is paid or plowed if the main road to get you anywhere is not passable.

So there's a lot of ins and outs of the whole process.

It's not as simple.

And then they're like, well, I plowed my my driveway and you guys plowed it back in.

Well, there's an ordinance, you're not allowed to push your driveway snow into the street.

Because if if I don't push it back, it becomes a hazard in the street.

So just imagine your block, everybody pushed out two feet of snow from the driveway into the street after we clean the street, and now everybody pushed the snow out.

The road wouldn't be passable.

So if you push it out, we're gonna just push it right back.

You gotta keep the snow in your yard off to the side somewhere, it can't go in the street.

Same with sidewalks.

You'll see a guy with a snowblower blowing it right back into the street, and if we leave it there, it ices up, it becomes a hazard, it's a traffic issue.

We have to push it back.

So maybe a presentation, and I can go through a lot of the details and ins and outs, and that'll help answer a lot of questions.

These generalities like crosswalks, there's a thousand of them, and I got 39 plow drivers and like six signs and lines people that work on city owned property sidewalks.

It's a very limited crew for a very large city.

That's why we have these ordinances.

So I'm happy to answer them now.

I just don't know if the answers will resonate as well without the educational part of it.

So you guys can see like how many trucks do we have, how many drivers, how long you can I can bring the maps, I can show you maps.

You know, so let me know how you guys want to proceed.

I'm here, I can do questions now.

We could do both.

I can do a quick question and answer and then come back with a presentation.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm kind of leaning toward, and I appreciate director.

And I all what I'll do is continue to, you know, people have questions, and then we'll recommit it.

And then the meantime, if you want to put something together and submit that to the board, then we can decide if we need to meet again next month or if what you've provided um does the trick.

So uh, just while everybody's here, I think we just have uh maybe a couple more, um, and then we'll kind of go from there.

Um, and then we'll kind of go from there.

So, representative Didalo, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, yeah, I appreciate you joining us tonight, uh, Mr.

Turk.

Um, you know, I was actually out on uh, you know, I volunteer at Belltown.

So uh when that one of the snowstorms, there was a fire downtown.

So I was out on the roads and going through.

I was one of the people in the emergency vehicle driving down Strawberry Hill and driving down Elm Street over to headquarters.

Um, and then I was driving over across town over on Broad Street and uh West Broad Street and then up Hubber Hab.

Um, so I was out there with you guys going through.

And um I think for me and a lot of my constituents, um, and I talked with uh Maciones about was what are we steps is the city taking to digitize our routes so that some routes aren't getting left behind?

Because I think that was a lot of concern, and I get that.

Like it takes six hours to go through a plow route.

I get it, there's gonna be snow on it, and I don't want to deny that, but I think it was some people going and seeing 12, you know, 12 hours after a storm or getting into the 15.

You know, the storm lasted a while, and saying, hey, okay, it's been six hours.

Can I get one lane on my road?

I think that's kind of what some people were looking at.

So seeing really that was my question is you know, is your operation trying to get anything digital going so that oh cool, this road hasn't been hit in 12 hours.

We now have the data to say we need to go hit that road on that route.

You know, are we taking steps in that direction?

Or is it you just keep going and doing your loop, and then if a road gets missed, it gets missed.

I think that's kind of what I was trying to get at.

Thanks.

So all the trucks have GPS, but we're assuming that the truck is gonna run the whole time.

So if the truck breaks down and it takes three hours to repair it, they fall behind.

Also, if it'll storm, so there is no shift for snowstorms.

The shift is whenever it starts, and then when the snow ends, we keep working until it's cleaned up sufficient enough where everybody can get around.

So it could be five hours, it could be 25 hours, it could be 30.

So what I've always said is we won't take complaints during the storm.

Because to say you miss my road, the truck could be in the shop for two hours.

There's nothing I can do about it.

So people have to wait till the snow stops, and typically it's eight to ten hours after that.

Now you're right, there's 1500 roads.

Sometimes they get missed.

These guys only take a two, three hour break at night.

They're only human stuff happens, and if it gets missed, that's when the fix it comes to help.

Is there a way to digitize this?

You can't really say, okay, every road needs to be driven five times.

So if one's only driven four, then there's a red flag that pops up.

So you missed it one time.

Every storm is different.

The the very first large storm that was 18 inches, didn't have any wind, and there was no slipping of the trucks.

It was actually pretty straightforward, and it was just you know, constant plowing.

The second storm actually was windy, which that's the difference between a blizzard and just a heavy storm.

So the first one was very heavy, the second one was actually blizzard because of the wind, and the trucks were slipping all over the place for whatever reason it was just extra slippery, and the the plowing instead of five hours is probably more like eight.

So there was all kinds, and then what happens is if the truck slips off the road a little, you need two other trucks to go help it get out.

So now you got three routes not getting done.

So we're talking about storms that are not normal.

These are extreme blizzards, 24 inches in 24 hours.

This is not normal.

You're like, how are you gonna make sure you can handle a blizzard with no problems?

We're never gonna be more powerful than Mother Nature.

And for me to even try to set that expectation is just not realistic.

And most storms are eight inches or less.

So to answer your question, we are digitized.

There's GPS.

We drive the routes, each zone that we split the city in three zones.

You got north, middle, and south.

Basically, north is above the merit, middle is between the merit 95, and then below 95 is south.

And you have supervisors checking and driving.

It's never going to be perfect.

I'm not going to try and set that expectation.

We have 39 on the books.

I think we had maybe 37 or 36.

Two are empty.

It's rare that we have full staff.

So I'm just letting you know this.

I mean, you're you're saying why didn't you climb Mount Everest in 20 minutes?

It's just that storm was physically ridiculous to just be honest.

I don't I haven't heard a lot of complaints on six-inch storms or eight inch storms, or we haven't had much winter in the last three years.

So four seasons ago, we had five storms.

The season after that, five storms.

Last year we had 16, but it was pretty light overall.

Nobody's used to these major storms that we had this year.

This was a ridiculous winter.

So I'm not trying to pass the buck and say we're we're we're not responsible.

We're always trying to get better and more efficient, but we gotta have realistic expectations.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you we're gonna in a 24-inch storm, we're gonna knock everything out.

We don't you don't know how many times a road needs to be covered or passed by, it could be five, it could be 10.

It depends up north to is a much higher elevation, so it's colder up there, maybe the snow is fluffier, maybe there's more icing.

It's too general to just speak in terms like that.

But we are digitized, we are trying to get more advanced.

I mean, you can almost tell when the plow is up or down by the computer.

So we're doing everything we can physically, but we're not gonna be more powerful than Mother Nature.

We can't set the standard to a blizzard.

We gotta look at smaller storms.

Is it possible to share that information with no that came up years ago?

Why don't we publish the GPS?

Because you know what's gonna happen.

They're gonna call you and say, the guy just drove by my street again.

Why can't he just dip into my street?

It'll only take a minute when all we can focus on is like the main roads.

He's only I could see him right now.

He's not moving.

What all we would get is complaints and and a hundred thousand supervisors asking why we can't do things that they would want us to do.

I wasn't necessarily saying the plow, but like road status, like how long it has been since that road was plowed, not the individual plow truck.

How would we do that with 1500 roads?

New York City has pieces in operation, so I don't know if we could look into that.

I wouldn't, they got 1500 plows.

We got 50 if all the trucks are running.

Yeah, I'm just saying, just so keep so constituents could know, like they have a website during both those storms.

We say, hey, it's been this many hours since a plow came down your road, just to give our constituents some peace of mind.

Well, you also need the personnel to do that.

Yeah, and that's something we're just kind of I think want to try and work with.

There's three, there's like three or four supers out there, and me.

I know they there might be a few, you need people to be able to do that that could watch the GPS and then do that.

Well, I don't have the manpower for that right now.

Okay, so is that something we could work with you on in the future, maybe?

What do you do with those people when it's not winter time?

I don't know.

So again, we went down their road, and then you know, 40 minutes later, there's two inches on it.

Well, they need to come back.

So, how do we deal with that?

The expectation in Stanford is black roads at all times.

That's the expectation.

So I'm not sure.

The way I look at it, if you can drive, like you just said, you drove down Strawberry Hill, you drove here.

The fact that you were able to drive wherever you needed to go, that proves we did our job.

Because the goal is to make sure you can get where you need to go.

Worst case scenario when you guys can't, you call us and we give you an escort.

So I know what you're saying, and I don't want to, I'm not trying to hide information.

I'm just people don't understand what's happening, and I could do all the presentations in the world, but why can't you come down my road?

You haven't hit it for four hours because the snow got more intense, and we have to stay on the main roads.

How do you explain that?

Who's gonna post that on a website in real time so people can understand that?

And even if you do, they probably wouldn't accept it anyway.

So it's you're not gonna please everybody.

How we would go about making that realistic.

Most of the crew stayed and just hauled snow for three more days straight.

They didn't sleep.

So they they put in about as much effort you could humanly possibly give.

And that's basically the standard we try to live up to.

So the presentation will help so people can understand why a constant status, even if they had it, wouldn't really ease their trouble.

I mean I I've been pushing administrations over the last couple of them.

They used to give the uh the declared emergency warning way too late.

And and I tried to get them to think logistically.

If you wait till 8 p.m., everybody's home and parked.

And let's say you're on an emergency snow route road, which means you're not allowed to park there during a declared emergency, people are already winding down going to sleep.

They might not even know there's an emergency, and then their car gets towed, which means we declared it way too late.

And we've done a much better job of declaring that much earlier.

So when an emergency is declared, people need to understand you got to stay home and not leave until that emergency is turned off, which I think on this one was like two, three days later.

But if they don't accept that I I'm not, I shouldn't leave for three days, then they're they're gonna be disappointed.

There's a reason it's three days long and not just the duration of the storm.

It's there's a lot of education that needs to happen for people understand that information.

I'm just drawing on you could stop me whenever you're ready.

No, you're fine.

I just want to get to make sure we get everyone representative temporality.

Thank you, Chair.

Hi, Thomas.

Hello.

How are you?

Um I'm fine.

I just wanted I just want to say a couple of things.

Um, one, I think it's it's really about uh level setting people's expectations in a crisis like that, because it was a crisis.

I mean, like you said, we had two major snowstorms, one on top of the other.

Um, I had a constituent call me and say that their area hadn't been shoveled, and when I checked it out with you guys, the area had been shoveled.

And funny enough, the night before I thought, and I think this was the second storm.

I thought I was gonna get ahead on my driveway.

So I shoveled, and I have a 250 foot driveway, a very, very long driveway.

I shoveled most of the driveway at night it when I had had about eight inches that had fallen.

And when I woke up the next morning, it was like I had not shoveled anything.

I swear to God, it looked like I had just gotten the same 20 or 22 inches that had fallen.

It appeared as though nothing had been shoveled, and I myself had shoveled it.

So when you say to us that you had shoveled roads that people thought were unshoveled, I completely understand what you're saying because I experienced that personally myself.

Um I think some kind of small presentation of what you guys did would be great, just so that we could have that or maybe post it for constituents, because I'm sure you did work very hard, and I hear you saying that guys didn't sleep for three days.

I think constituents should know stuff like that.

You know, I I think I think people have to be a little bit more realistic about what happened out there during this winter.

The one thing that I don't understand, or maybe I do understand is like when you said just now about people uh pushing their snow out into the street.

I got packed in by the city by the city's plows, which I didn't really complain about because I kind of understood it, and I didn't put any snow in the street, but just what you normally are plowing from the street, you know, closes up the driveway, or at least I think that's how it works.

How does that work for each person's driveway?

I'm glad you brought this up because let me give you you all a visual.

So let's say a typical road is 24 feet wide, okay?

That's two lanes, one in each direction.

The plow does one lane at a time.

So let's say there's one foot of snow at the end of a storm, overall, one foot of snow has landed on that road.

Now, if you push the first foot of snow to the second foot of snow, now you have two feet of snow.

And if you push that on to the third foot, you know, the three feet wide, now you have three feet tall of snow.

And if you push all the way 12 feet over times one foot tall, you have 12 feet of snow on the right side of the road.

So your driveway is going to eat 12 feet of snow.

This storm was 24 inches.

So your driveway, we're we're flinging snow to the right.

Typically, it's always to the right.

And with 24 inches of snow, that means all of that piles up in front of your driveway.

And there's not much we can do about that.

Everybody's like, why can't you just dip in and scoop out everybody's driveway?

It's 24 inches times 12 feet.

It doesn't look that tall because we're plowing it over and over again two inches at a time.

But the amount of snow is just ridiculous.

And it has to go somewhere.

And even on smaller four inches of snow times 12 feet, that's 48 inches of snow to the right.

So everybody gets upset.

People have thrown shovels at the trucks.

I think one guy tried to start a fight with the plow driver this year.

It has to go to the right.

If it's a one-way, then the other side gets some two.

So that's that's the visual aid that most people never click in their head.

Why are you always blocking my driveway?

Right.

Because all of it has to go from the center line has to go to the right.

And it just piles up.

You know, like if you try to push your shovel, let's say you have the eight inches on your driveway, and you push your shovel, you start it.

How far can you get before it's too heavy for you to move it anymore?

No, I guess four or five feet doesn't take much.

So we got a 30-ton truck with a giant plow, it pushes all that at once, and it's just a massive pile up, and there's it has to go somewhere.

Yeah.

That's why we spent three days hauling the snow because we realized how much was on the sides, and we we literally would pick it up with a loader, put it in a dump truck and haul it to West Beach.

So I hope that gave you a visual of what's happening during a snowstorm.

No, I totally does.

And I think just like a list of maybe like 10 or 15 bullet points of the stuff that you guys go through and what's happening out there that we could post for constituents or even have next winter if we get this much snow again, you know, just be helpful.

Um, so I think that's a good thing.

Yeah, like I said, most people just they don't understand, you know, they go to bed and they wake up and they're like, what the hell happened to my driveway?

I get it.

Right.

I mean they're wrong.

And I shoveled my own driveway, and I'm telling you, it was like I didn't shovel it when I woke up the next morning.

And then what was worse this year is it was so cold for so long.

It was below freezing.

I blame Canada myself.

That's that's the way I do.

But what happened was those snow banks turned into ice, and now you're really in trouble because then the common resident just doesn't have the equipment to chip away that iceberg.

So this was a nasty winter.

Probably I've been here 15 seasons now, probably over 200 snow events, and this is definitely one of the worst winters we had in such a condensed time.

So I understand the complaints and the concerns, but I assure you this is not normal activity for us.

Well, thank you so much for answering and uh look forward to seeing that whenever you get around to doing that.

Thank you.

I yield, Chair.

Yeah, thank you.

Um Representative Gross, floor's yours.

Thank you, uh Chair.

And yeah, thank you, Director Turk for um you know for your answers thus far, and you know, for being willing to you know put together a presentation.

Um as I said before, you know, just like being able to visualize the whole process and see you know the routes that you have to go through and and you know, understanding just you know, really just understanding the work that you guys, the hard work you guys put in during each snow season, um, you know, to take care of our city will be helpful to in almost to sort of yeah.

So we so we know what to tell constituents, you know, and we can sort of sing your praises to constituents when uh you know when these questions come in.

Um and crucially, you know, like coming before the board, you know, I'm I'm wondering, you know, how can we as a board, you know, make your job easier.

And and and given you know the you know, increasing likelihood of of these major weather events in general due to you know climate change, you know.

I I think you know, we should be looking proactively into how we can better, you know, equip the city.

Um, you know, I I think in in one of your answers, you mentioned sort of um, you know, sort of just maintaining you know current levels and and you know, maintaining our equipment and maintaining our plows, you know.

know increasing likelihood of of these major weather events in general due to you know climate change you know i i think you know we should be looking proactively into how we can better you know equip the city um you know and i i think in in one of your answers you mentioned sort of um you know sort of just maintaining you know current levels and and you know maintaining our equipment and maintaining our plows you know i mean perhaps you know we should look into um you know hiring seasonal employees um you know whether that's literal you know snow shovelers to help people or just you know extra staff to just support the operations department um you know during the snow season um you know if that's something we can look into um you know like yeah we we want to know so we can you know better just help the community um and help you guys do your job um and uh so if you want to speak to that and then i i'm also sort of wondering uh the sort of process of of designating both snow emergency routes and i guess snow removal sites you know i'm sort of wondering is that something that's in ordinance is that something that we do is that something that that you do just as sort of like administrative policy um so just trying to sort of understand that um because there's a few you know snow emergency routes um you know in my district um you know obviously you know they're probably more you know more more main roads um but you know if if there is a process to get more uh you know other roads designated as such you know I think it'd be helpful to understand that as well.

So your first point the best way you guys can help is never cut my budget because that I don't ask for fluff I ask for what I need to do the job and that's the same for vehicle maintenance so when we ask for money for vehicles it's not because we want to be in bougie fancy stuff it's you know if we have a plow truck I think some of them were from 2001 and the lifespan of a city vehicle is usually 10 to 15 years that's that's over 20 and the problem is they're expensive.

So I understand you know sticker shock when you see a budget of two million dollars for eight trucks because it's you're like only you only get eight trucks.

I mean they're they're all built to spec and it's just the way it is we try to get as much out of them as we can because we know that you know budgets get tight and we're not the only players in the in the operations but you know if if we're asking for it that means we need it.

I have 39 drivers I have 34 snow routes and you're like well what do you need five extra ones because there's always somebody out on injury or out sick or you know whatever reason somebody's I have one guy in the National Guard he could be on military duty so I built in a little buffer because what you don't want is 34 drivers 34 routes and then three are empty half the time because like I there there's 10 reasons to be out.

So my I actually my budget hasn't gone up much because we're we're in a good spot.

And I can't budget for blizzards but the goal is to always have a driver in every route at all times.

And we do supplement a little with a few parks guys and I'll show all that on the presentation.

So that's point number one.

The emergency snow routes they've been there before my time and I think the way they were set up is with with fire police and EMS to make sure they have like the most efficient routes to like the hospital and then any roads that tend to get overparked and you you can't get a fire truck down if people are parking on both sides and the snow banks are squeezing them in.

But again that's only for declared emergencies most snowstorms that that's not in effect.

So I believe that's how they came about they might be in the charter ordinance to have that.

So that's a safety thing.

And then the designated snow removal site we had to come up with that years ago when we had so much snow it you have to submit it to the DEP and they give it a little stamp of approval right now that it's West Beach the first parking lot you come to near the soccer field.

And what happens is every season we'll we'll protect the catch basins you put hay bales around it and filter fabric in it so that when we do pile up snow which I'll have pictures in the presentation the snow is larger than my garage at one point.

So as it melts any debris and rocks and and dirt doesn't go in the catch basin and clog the stormwater system.

So there is a little set of rules that the DP expects you to follow.

So it's all documented and run through DEP you can and actually it was so bad this winter that the DEP relaxed regulations so much that they said we can dump snow into the water which is usually a big no but they understood that with the amount of snow we got in such a short period of time that it was a hazard and a lot of smaller towns don't have a lot of space so they were saying it was okay to do that.

I wouldn't have done that I would have avoided that we have enough park space and you know once you see these things melt you're you understand why they don't like that but that's how severe this winter was that even the DEP had to relax regulations a little bit.

And you know, once you see these things melt, you're you understand why they don't like that, but that's how severe this winter was that even the DEP had to relax regulations a little bit.

And I mean, like in the event of like a major storm, I mean, can we like would have been helpful to have had you know multiple sites for that's the other point?

So here's the other thing we learned years ago is like oh, you know, stop and shop called, and they they need to haul out their snow also.

Where can they dump it?

We cannot take private property snow because what happens is even though stop and shop has all the best intentions, these contractors will start dumping everything.

So the first time we hauled snow out, it was like Summer Street, and when the stuff started melting, there was grills and bicycles and all kinds of stuff.

I go where the hell did that come from?

We weren't scooping up bikes and grills because we let it open to the public and it just became a mess.

There's nobody to hold accountability to, so it more sites for us.

Yes, we can use any park as needed in the winter.

More sites for the private sector, it's just not doable because it there's no way to regulate that.

And okay, they they got three mattresses, they put a bunch of snow on it, and then they went and dumped it in there, and they'll go in the middle of the night.

It's not like only during the day, or they'll go at any time.

And we actually had that problem this year, which in hindsight, we should have closed the gate to West Beach at night because there was debris in this snow as well, and it wasn't from us.

So we have plenty of areas for the city, the private sector's on their own.

You gotta find a property owner and say, you know, can I pay you a couple bucks to dump over here?

They gotta figure it out.

Right.

And uh, yeah, no, I I'm not I'm sort of just yeah, asking about the city.

Um I guess that the snow that you are you know bringing to to West Beach is that that's just snow that's in the street, is that then put into a sort of dump truck?

I'm trying to just sort of visualize the process.

So we can understand where the snow is coming from.

We have six giant loaders, the same ones we use for leaf pickup.

It's literally the same as leaf pickup.

We have a bunch of dump trucks, we get the loader, we scoop up the snow, fill up the truck, drive the truck to West Beach, and dump it out.

So it's it's pretty straightforward.

We have the equipment.

We actually have a giant snowblower that's the size of like a like one of the trucks, and it just runs into the snow bank and blows it right into the back of the dump trucks.

We haven't used that since I've been here, so that's how bad this winter got.

Uh, so we have our own equipment, we just literally just scoop it up and haul it, and uh it should just be snow.

Right.

Are you are you plowing like do you you plow the streets and then would you come back later with a dump truck to get the snow from the side of the street?

Like I'm trying to like so like for example with the blizzard, uh let's say I don't remember the exact timing.

Let's say it started Monday morning and we finished plowing by Tuesday night, so it was almost like a two-day storm.

We would take a little break, and then Wednesday morning, all uh all of our plow trucks are dump trucks, so it's the same truck.

So once we plowed it and opened up the roads so it's passable for traffic, then we would just go back with the loader to scoop it up and use the same, it's a dump truck with a plow on it, and you just park next to the to the loader, scoop it up.

So it's the same vehicle.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

Uh thank you.

Uh representative uh Salas for the first time.

Um, hi, good evening.

Um, if there's any way it's just a you know, a thought.

Uh the you guys can use also the people to pick up the garbage as an emergency helpers uh to drive to trucks, the snow trucks.

So we did that when I first got here in 2011.

Okay, but when I got here in 2011, we had 28 drivers and 44 snow routes.

And my first question was, who the hell set this up?

Because that's bad math.

Can't have 20.

So we did have to borrow the the sanitation drivers, but the problem is most of the time the snow isn't strong enough to cancel garbage, so they would have to do their garbage in the morning, come over to us in the afternoon and then leave early.

They got to get some sleep and then just do garbage again.

So they would show up late and leave early, and the problem is if you have five garbage guys, and then all of a sudden they all have to leave at 10 o'clock because they got to wake up at two o'clock.

And now how do I cover these five empty routes?

So what has happened over time is we actually had a free consultant from Westcog that redesigned all the routes and tried to make them all the same size.

I was actually kind of against it because old dog doesn't want a new tricks.

But I said, look, I have 34 drivers at the time I had 34.

Let me see what you do, make 34 equal routes.

And that's what happened, and it actually worked out.

What also happened was COVID.

So when COVID hit, what we didn't want to do is have garbage come over to help us plow, and then we contaminate garbage, and then they can't go do garbage because they got COVID from us, or vice versa.

They came over and then gave us COVID and now they got to go home for 10 days.

That was the rule back then.

So we didn't want to cross-contaminate the two departments.

And because I already restructured the routes and had enough drivers, we just haven't used them for a while for mainly for efficiency sake.

But to answer your question, if we needed them, yes, we can.

They all have CDLs.

The other problem though is I only have about 40-50 trucks.

So I have enough to have run like 40 trucks at a time and have 10 spares.

So yes, I can use them, but I only have so many trucks to go around.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you.

And thank you, everyone.

I don't see any more hands.

Um, so I just want to say thank you to uh Director Turk for joining us today.

What I would like, and I think based off of the discussions that we've had today, is perhaps prepare a short slide deck, Director Turk.

I'm not saying to spend a week on it of just maybe some bullet points, and then also offer up some maybe some ideas that the 40 of us can help um your operations you know going forward.

If that's you know, putting out a bullet point list of some things that we can post on our social media pages for constituents to do to make your jobs easier or something, let us know how we can help you.

Um and that might be helpful as well.

So, what we might do, and this is what I recommend before we go to a vote on this committee is perhaps recommend to recommit this to steering.

Um, in the meantime, we could have uh director Turk uh submit you know a small presentation, we can circulate it, take a look at it, uh, and then if we feel like we need to come back next month, uh we can vote on that at next steering, or if we believe that our answer or our questions have all been answered based off of the presentation, then we will just not take up the item at the next steering meeting.

So that's my recommendation.

So, what I would do is uh I gotta I got one point though.

Okay, yeah, go ahead.

If I if I make a presentation, which I like putting visual aids and simple bullet points, it might be best that I go over that with you guys because I don't want you to just read it and assume stuff without explanation.

So I'm happy to come back and review that with everybody.

So at least if if you pass it along to constituents later, you'll be able to answer their questions.

Because if I keep it simple, then there might be some details lost in that simplification.

All right, sounds good.

So what we'll do is we'll we'll get back together next month and go over that.

And in the meantime, if there are any follow-up questions uh from the committee, you know, please submit them beforehand so that uh we have a little bit of time to prepare our answers for that.

So that being said, uh at this time I'll entertain a motion um to recommit item OPR 32.008 uh to steering.

Uh is there a second?

I have a motion and a second.

At this time, we'll do this by voice vote.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, no opposed.

So at this time, we'll recommit item OPR 32.003 back to steering.

And I have right now, this can concludes our agenda.

I have 7.57 p.m.

At this time, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second, all right.

You guys have a great night.

Okay, one more thing I'd like to throw out there.

I'd like to invite any of you to email me and set up a walkthrough of the garage.

Because if you see one of the I remember I'll never forget the first time I stepped foot inside the garage and I saw all these trucks in one spot and the size of these equipments.

I'll I'll put pictures on the presentation, but unless you walk it and even sit in it, you know, I'm happy to give anybody a tour of all our equipment from the smallest to the largest, and just show you around so you could really understand what I'm talking about.

I think that would go a long way, Director.

And I I appreciate the patience and in helping us and holding our hand a little bit.

So but no, it's you guys should see what we do.

I'm and what you're you're signing off on budgets and and what this equipment really is.

I'm happy.

I got 11 years to burn, so I'm around.

Whatever you guys need.

All right, everyone.

Take care.

Have a good night.

Thank you.

Good night, everyone.

Goodbye.