I'll now call to order the health and human uh development committee.

Um, Madam Clerk, would you please call the role?

Auto Woman ties.

Vice Chair Odenberg.

Present.

Auto Woman Sonier.

Auto Woman Cox Enthui.

Present.

Chair Boyd.

Present.

Auto Woman ties.

Audible woman Sonia.

We have free prison.

We have a quorum.

Thank you so much.

I asked for the approval of minutes for Thursday, July the 10th, 2025.

So moved.

Okay.

So we have approval of Auto Woman.

I was I'll say, I'm I'm coming.

Auto Woman ties.

Vice Chair Odenberg.

Auto Woman Sonier.

Chair Audown Cox Anthony.

Hi.

Chair Boyd.

Aye.

Auto Woman ties.

Auto Woman Say.

We have three I votes.

Thank you.

So we have approved for minutes.

So now we have board bills for review.

We have Board Bill number 78 introduced by Alderwoman Ann Sweitzer.

And so Ottawa Ms.

Sweitzer, would you like to uh start?

Yes, thank you, Madam Chairwoman and members of the committee.

I appreciate you hearing this bill today.

Uh today in front of us we have Board Bill 78, uh, which is an update of the city's vegetation ordinance.

Uh, to begin at first, though, I have a committee substitute that I would appreciate it if the committee could adopt before we begin discussion.

And I'll share my screen so you can see what that committee substitute um looks like.

Let me get that up for us and then get the presentation going.

Um what's going on?

Give me one moment to get the slideshow up.

Okay, hopefully everyone can see the screen as it's loading.

Uh so the first thing I'd love to do, as I mentioned, is get the committee substitute adopted.

If we could uh if someone on the committee is able to make that motion to adopt the committee substitute, I would uh appreciate that.

Uh it does say here that what the updates are in that committee sub after we introduced the bill, we had further stakeholder engagement and talked about um limiting the tree lawn height from 36 inches to 24 inches, and it updates some of the information around collection of fees and some of the definitions got cleaned up as well.

Sir, I move a move, madam chair, that we uh adopt Board Bill 78 committee substitute.

Second roll call.

Previous rule.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, uh, members of the committee.

So to begin the presentation on Board Bill 78 committee substitute.

I first wanted to just mention all of the stakeholders that participated in this bill.

Uh we had so many people, of course, leading it really with Alan Jankowski in forestry, Greg Hayes, the director of um parks, recreation, and forestry were very involved.

Um Elizabeth uh was that uh was uh with who's a nature steward with forestry was involved.

Um we also had Walker Hamilton with it's uh uh the comptroller's office, uh David Newberger with Office on the Disables gave a lot of feedback, so did Scott Ogilvy and um Alicia Russell uh with the sustainability office and planning and urban design, Matt Moog with the city counselor's office.

We had folks in the Department of Conservation, Seed St.

Louis, Audubon Society, and other other leaders in the landscape movement, all giving feedback.

Um and I would be remiss if I didn't mention Caitlin Smith uh with Michael Browning's office, who really took the lead to wrangle the information and and do the updates on the drafts and everything like that, and Christian Bishop and of course Michael Browning, who worked really hard on this as well and is a co-sponsor of the bill.

So what does this bill do?

Um, two main things.

It is updating the vegetation ordinance in two ways.

One of the most important ways is that it's encouraging and allowing managed native and sustenance gardens within specific parameters.

So it lays out specific rules and regulations around landscape garden around native gardens, sustenance gardens, what you can grow, what you can't grow, referring back to the Missouri Department of Conservation, and also forestry to provide an annual vegetation memo that allows forestry to set plants that are allowed, not allowed.

But generally, you know, right now in St.

Louis City, native gardens really just aren't allowed.

They happen, they're they exist, but they're not part of our ordinances.

They're not permitted explicitly.

And same with sustenance gardens in the front yard.

So food, food landscapings, foodscapes, things that MSD with their grant program are building in the city, but aren't they don't have a match in our ordinances about what should exist, what can exist, how to maintain it, things like that.

So this lays out a framework for all of those sorts of gardens.

And then it also on the other side of that strengthens the process of fine and fee collection in the city of St.

Louis for forestry fines and fees, which is a really important update that was needed for for this for this bill.

So some of the things that have changed in the bill or changed in the in the vegetation ordinance if we were to adopt this bill moving forward.

There's a lot more definitions.

So what are all of the what is a chronic violator?

Explaining what a natural landscape is, a native plant, meadow vegetation, so many different definitions and different um types of gardens are defined and really fleshed out in the bill.

It establishes requirements for maintenance of those spaces, uh, as well as explicit language about line of sight and how close you can be to an intersection or a street sign, making sure that there are gaps in the landscape for people to be able to move through the tree lawns, things like that.

All really important pieces of the bill that were uh talked about with all of the stakeholders I mentioned earlier to make sure that it not only benefited the ecology and the environment that we're trying to build here in St.

Louis, but also that there wasn't a detriment to people who are disabled or children being able to see around different plants, plantings, and making sure everyone was really accounted for.

And uh the fines and fees section, which I'll go into a little bit more in depth.

So the fines and fees section is really important.

And one of the main reasons that's important is because the city had been able to charge for the abatement of properties.

So if forestry went out and cut back a property, for example, they would be able to send a bill.

Um, but the city wasn't charging for those sort of um violations.

So you'd get a bill for your your when forestry goes out and cuts cuts your property, but you wouldn't also get a violation of of that um of that fine.

Uh so that is something that is really important to update, and that needed to make sure that there was a process set up through the state law that was incorporated into the bill, so that those fines and fees could both be collected.

Um, and it also uh makes sure that there's special fines and fees for chronic violators.

Uh, and with some of the math that we did, we were talking, we were showing that you know, this could be millions of dollars, um, if not tens of millions of dollars in new uh fines that could be collected from these violations that exist now that there would be a process set up.

That's really important because in our budget books, we'd be able to see the money coming into forestry when they do have these fines and fees collected, and hopefully be able to choose to allocate those that that same amount of money or some somewhere around that amount at least back into forestry to make sure that they can continue the very important work that they do.

So it's a very important piece that the city had been missing and needed to incorporate uh through the state, the state statute language so that the um so that the fines and fees can be collected, quite frankly.

So that's really important.

Uh, some examples we have here of some native gardens in the city of St.

Louis, some sustenance gardens.

Um, you can see on the left that they do adhere to some of the the distances from the right of way there where it's no more higher than 24 inches, um, but it's providing a lot of stormwater management, it's providing um food and uh for native um uh fauna, I guess, bees, butterflies, uh things that rely on on us to plant things that they'll they'll be able to to eat or to use um for pollination, um, and uh while still not going over the the sidewalk, which is really important.

Um while still not going over the the sidewalk, which is really important.

And then on the right, you can see more of that sustenance garden where they're using their front yard to grow food.

Um, it's clearly a managed landscape.

There's those gaps between the plants that allow for sight lines for people to walk through, um, but it is not, but it is different than just a grass lawn.

Um, and this would be something that our ordinance would allow.

Right now it's it's simply not allowed, and people do them.

We we have all of them all over the city, but it you know, if it takes a complaint from a neighbor or something like that, that it's not part of our uh our city law right now.

So it could be something where it could cause disputes and there's not anything really laid out about what's appropriate, what's not appropriate.

Uh so it's important for the city to be better about you know defining those things, which is what we're trying to do here.

Uh, I do have uh Alan Jankowski with me here today, our commissioner of forestry, who I'd love to have speak a little bit on the bill.

Um, but it's up to, of course, the Madam Chairwoman, if you'd rather do questions first, or if you'd like to write away here from Alan Jankowski, and I believe uh Director Hayes is also online as well and could speak to the bill.

And so we can have uh deportment speak in regards to the bill, and then the committee could ask questions.

And then um I can see if we have any uh questions or comments that have been sent in and regards to this.

So we can do it in that order.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

And and uh I did get several um public testimony uh in support to the clerk as well as some of our stakeholders sent in some letters, but I'll pass it over right now to Alan Jankowski, who's in my office with me, and and let him say a few words.

Hello, everybody.

Uh thanks for having me.

Um, yes, I think the the main thing that I saw in this is it's a managed landscape still.

So we come up with a we'll have a list of Missouri, uh, this state of Missouri and then the national uh toxic weeds.

Um Department of Agriculture has has a list of weeds that you cannot be growing in your landscape.

And then we'll also come up with a list of weeds, um, honeysuckle, like um poison ivy um items.

Uh and you you kind of look at like silver maples that self-seed themselves everywhere.

So you still have to manage the landscape.

So that's the key term here is not allowing somebody just to have a lot and letting it go and say, hey, this is a this is um uh natural habitat rehab, you know.

We can't just put up a sign and say that that's what's gonna happen here.

No, it has to be a managed landscape.

And I guess that's the key that I was looking for for our department to be able to kind of manage this.

And and there's a lot of natural landscapes happening right now out in the city, um, more and more every year.

And then this allows my staff to give them a little clearer picture on you know what's accepted and what isn't accepted, because it was really gray and kind of up to the old um ordinance had a lot, uh, just the commissioner.

It was uh up to the commissioner and and um it's it's difficult for for just to kind of come up with a random rules out there.

So I think I I love how it's kind of spells it out in there.

And I know Greg, you had a couple of comments if you'd like.

I think older woman Schweiser kind of said most of the things that that uh I had questions about or concerns.

Thank you.

I thank you both.

I think everyone a great deal of work was put into this this ordinance and this board, this board bill and pursuing the ordinance and it it is a vast improvement in my opinion from from the previous one.

Over the years, Alan and I would get not many, but we get some questions about our ordinance 59860.

And we my refrain was always, you know, it's from 1986, it's very dated, but for the most part it works.

But when we started looking at things more closely, such as native plantings and such years ago, we said, why don't we do our own ordinance, just native plantings?

Well, this incorporates everything, which I think is fantastic.

And you have folks out there that are conscientious, they have really good intentions who really want to do the right thing.

And the pictures older woman Schweitzer showed you on the screen are perfect examples of that.

And Alan and I for years have gone and talked to folks saying, hey, you're getting complaints.

We're not here to perpetuate personal property disputes between you and your neighbor.

We're here to look at your property and make sure it's maintained, bordered and not just completely neglected.

I'd say 95% of the folks we deal with are very reasonable.

Alan had a situation recently where the individuals met him on site and very reasonable and understood.

You may have 5% that just don't want to even do any maintenance, and that's unacceptable.

So that's great.

The other thing with the fees and fines, if violations, if you will, forestry would rather our crews would rather go to properties and see progress in the future, not go back to the same properties constantly and service them.

And we have delinquent balances.

So anything that puts a for lack of a better way to say it, a little more enforcement or teeth into the ordinance.

I don't know what the revenue stream will be in the future.

These are very difficult to collect on accounts.

We've been told that by collection agencies for years.

But if you don't have these, as Alder Woman Schweitzer pointed out, if you don't have the 100 and the 500 in there, then you're never even gonna have a chance of at increasing your revenue.

So those are my couple bullet points, if you will.

And again, I commend everyone for their efforts.

And it I think it's gonna be a vast improvement.

Uh was there anyone I see Alderman Browning on.

Did you have any comments?

Alderman Browning.

Let me unmute myself.

There we go.

Uh thank you.

I I'll keep it brief.

I just want to speak in support of this bill.

Uh, I worked with Alderwoman Schweitzer on it.

I saw the work that went into it.

Um, and I wanted to mention another benefit that I don't think was mentioned yet, which is flood mitigation.

Uh, something that really is important in our city right now as we see additional rainfall and additional heavy rainfall in short periods of time is the ability for native gardens to have deeper roots that do a better job of absorbing that water.

Uh I can tell you, I actually have one of these gardens in front of my house, and where I used to have problems with my yard washing out and and dumping a lot of water into the strip the sidewalk in the street.

Uh this year, I have not had any problems with the garden there.

Uh it's it's been like a giant sponge.

And so the more we can encourage this kind of um yard treatment in our city, the more we can mitigate the harmful effects that uh heavy rainfalls have on our city.

So, again, just want to say thank you to Alderwoman Schweitzer for sponsoring this.

I think this is a needed and uh timely update, and uh I'm very proud to support this as well.

Thank you.

Okay, uh I'm gonna turn it over now to committee members, see if they have any questions.

Alder Woman.

Uh am I recognized?

Yes, you also thank you, chairwoman.

Uh Alder Woman Schweitzer, thanks for bringing this bill.

I want to thank the parks department and the forestry divisions for being here.

And um, your opinion on this and and your insights uh carries a lot of weight.

So I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy days to to work on this.

I do think this is a value added to the city.

Um, Alder Woman, I do have a direct question for you.

Um, and I think we talked a little bit about this.

But my my mind gravitates, and this is just maybe um uh my lack of knowledge in this area, but when I hear native uh plantings, my mind gravitates towards weeds, and is that someone just allowing their their yard to just grow and say, Oh, well, this is this is a native uh seeding or a native planted area because the grass is natural and it's growing.

Um this bill would prohibit that, right?

Forestry would would be able to go out or and and and say, No, you're in violation of an ordinance, and and not only do we have to cut this grass or anything, but um, you know, you've got it.

This is not considered a native planting area.

Right.

And thank you, Alderman.

Exactly right.

There's definitions in the bill for what a managed landscape is, and what plants are considered, you know, native and which ones are considered toxic or noxious, or um, you know, something like poison ivy, which is a native plant, is specifically prohibited in this bill.

Um, Alan might be able to add more to that.

No, exactly.

Uh, that's um, I met with a gentleman lately, uh no, last couple weeks, and like I said, there's there's uh catalpas you can see where some plants self-seed themselves everywhere, and and you know you have 25 catalpas growing in a uh five foot by five foot area.

Uh a catapa tree is gonna get six feet wide.

So we know that that that was not a purposeful planting.

So it has to be no landscape is zero maintenance, there's no such thing.

So there has to be maintenance put in there, and we can we can tell pretty quickly when we pull up to this to the uh location whether the uh homeowner is doing any maintenance or not.

And we can we could tell pretty quickly when we pull up to this to the uh location whether the uh homeowner is doing any maintenance or not.

And and I'm sorry, old, thank you, Alan.

And I'm sorry, Alderwoman, I I don't have that the definitions in front of me and uh do want to just confirm.

But I also my my constituents, um, a couple of them have reached out to me because of this is timely, uh, because of the sunflower yard that's uh caught some of the local news and the local press in St.

Peter's.

Uh a household drew sunflowers in their front lawn and it's led the neighbors to be upset, uh, lawsuits.

And I think recently the judge actually just said that nope, you can't have sunflowers.

Now, obviously, jurisdictions are are different, but um, if somebody plants a bunch of sunflowers in their front lawn, is that considered a managed landscape?

I guess I should turn it over to you.

I think that it, I mean, there's there's different parameters that need to be met in terms of not falling into the the right-of-way and things like that.

But I think the key, we we had some sunflowers.

I know there was a case of sunflowers, and they were all planted in the yard and then also within the uh um tree lawn.

So again, if you have a plant material in your yard, then and if it's a garden, that's that's and it's purposeful and it's maintained, can't be in the right-of-way, which is a sidewalk, can't interfere with that kind of imaginary box that's eight feet tall and within line of the of the uh sidewalk and can't go out into the street, but nothing can be taller than 24 inches in the um tree lawn.

So that would eliminate uh I don't I don't know if there's a dwarf one that gets too far as I haven't seen the sunflower, but uh I guess you could define uh other other um rubecia and some other plants that have a have a similar um I guess flower that would be considered a sunflower, but tall ones in in the tree lawn, absolutely not.

Yeah, and I'll if I could respond respond, excuse me, Alderman.

Just a couple quick follow-up points.

So, you know, over the years we'll find that let's say Greg Hayes' vegetative material is coming over into Alderman Oldenburg's ward excessively or even coming over.

My our advice is try to exhaust all uh modes of communication with that neighbor.

But at the end of the day, just like a private tree that's healthy and forestry said we have no jurisdiction over a healthy tree in the backyard.

If you exhaust all communication, you have the theoretical right to cut that vegetation up an imaginary property line into the sky.

But I always think I always encourage folks to contact an attorney first, because if you if the material dies, the individual can say, you know, you cause that bias.

One other point, what we don't we don't ever do anything, uh I ever's a strong word, but Alan and I don't operate in an adversarial way.

But one thing you'll find out in relation to your question, when we go out and talk to folks, not every day, but in these situations, it's not a quiz show.

But when Alan shows up and said and the individual is saying, This is a native plant, this is a does Alan will say, Well, what is that right there?

And when they when they say, uh, I don't know, and they don't know two or three plants there, it's very quick.

It we're very quick to find out they those are weeds, and they just more than likely, and they're just saying, This is a native garden I have.

Well, you can't even identify the plants.

So we we get a lot of success that way, just a conversation.

Thanks, Director.

I appreciate that.

I have no further questions.

Thank you, Chairwoman.

You welcome.

Uh Alderwoman, uh, Antoine, do you have any questions?

Uh yes, I do, Madam Chairwoman.

Thank you very much.

And thank you, Alderwoman Sweitzer, for your presentation um and for all your work on this bill, first and foremost.

I do think it's a really beneficial bill and timely bill, as everyone here noted, in terms of uh, I think the energy from the people of St.

Louis that really truthfully want to be able to plant native gardens and follow in this work.

So I thank you for all your work on that.

Um, also thank you, Alan and Greg, for your time here being here today to co-present uh with Alder Woman Sweitcher.

Uh the question that I have um that stood out to me um, just as you noted with the importance of being able to enforce uh these uh repeat offenders that are not taking care of their property and not taking care of their landscape, I do think that is really uh important for our city.

Um and it's you know important for your time management, Alan, to be able to reduce the amount of going back to repeat offenders.

That being said, I also recognize that um having the ability to bill and then having the ability to provide notice and fines are two very different administrative processes.

So my question is um, how does your office plan to incorporate the fine mechanism in terms of being able to follow through on the enforcement with the fines?

I'll I'll pass it over to Commissioner Jenkowski with us.

Yeah, so uh we're looking to for a lot of automation.

Hopefully, uh the IT department to help us out there.

Um, but we do we do have three um nuisance inspectors, weed inspectors that go out uh on a daily basis.

So to get those chronic um violators, I think the first year may be a little cumbersome for us to kind of get those chronic addresses on the on the list.

But once they're on the list, then they have to maintain their property for a year to get off the list.

So that that that helps us out tremendously.

And then we will have some um we're also gonna have some.

There was a part about hearings in there, and we'll have to uh assign a hearing officer.

Um still need to kind of work through that as well and and see how much time that really takes.

And I'll be assisting or maybe I'll be that hearing officer initially, but I'd love to pass a torch on to somebody.

And I'm not sure how much time that's gonna take out of our uh out of our operations at this time.

Uh I do note then the bill that they have to apply or uh set up a hearing date, and then they have to uh pay a $20 fee.

So maybe that will if would you know you're serious about uh setting up that hearing and not just uh on a whim.

So maybe that was detract some people from from doing the hearing, but um I don't know if I'm answering your question.

Um answering it.

But I'm I'm I'm looking to lean on a lot of my uh um nuisance inspectors, and then also we have uh four lay uh four individuals in the office that are CSRs that will help us kind of gather the information before we go to that hearing, and then um and then making sure we we have all the documentation and and process all that.

And I will just toot their horn here if he's not going to, they're very good about making sure that they're taking photos every time they go out to inspect a property, they are taking photos of these properties.

And right now we're in a situation in which they're doing so much of that work to cite people, and it's just that next step of the you know, issuance of the fine and the collection of that fine.

Um, so a lot is already happening to this point.

Uh, and I do want to note um forestry now accepts payment online, uh, which is huge and really important, uh, as well as um uh the money that there's there's the special tax sale that we have in place.

Uh there are fines and fees from forestry and the building division that go to the special tax sale.

And so one, if they're not able to collect these fines and fees and those continue to add up, it does help create more um you know, more money that's owed to the city of St.

Louis that can be added to that special tax bill, which is a you know, multi um department effort to collect these fees and fines if those properties uh are tax delinquent and also have the building and forestry fees and fines.

So this this adds it's just a it's another place that it will be collected that's um with a big collaboration of a lot of departments.

So I think um that is already work that's ongoing, but because of how many chronic violators there are and how many people would be getting these these fines, uh, it will be a um more money collected during those that process than than currently, based on alone on just the increase of uh forestry fines and fees.

Okay.

Thank you both for that answer.

And that's really helpful to know one Alan on your side that you already have kind of nuisance inspectors designated that can take on this work.

I I do know that time is precious in the forestry department, and I definitely want to make sure that we're equipping you with all you all need to be successful with these new processes falling under your office.

So just wanted to make sure that that was well outlined.

Um, and then yes, to your point, um, Alderwoman Schweitzer, I do recognize you know, having that accumulation can also still be a net benefit on our side as well.

Uh, if we are identifying these repeat offenders, so having the photos and having those well documented will hopefully add to that process so that it's not a secondary process for you guys to go back and re-identify the individuals that have already had a fine.

That was one concern on my end.

If you guys are not having a tracking mechanism and fines are getting misplaced and not having that documentation, so it's good to know that that's already a part of your process.

Um that was my primary question.

Um, but overall, I am very supportive of this bill.

I recognize the work that went into it.

Um, so thank you all for your work and getting it to this point.

Thank you, Alderman.

Okay, thank you.

Uh, they pretty much see that's why I have such a great committee because they asked most of my questions.

They asked all of my questions.

So I thank them.

And that was my biggest thing because I always fought to make sure that forestry would get those dollars when they would find people.

Uh so do we have any uh comments, madam clerk?

From anybody turned in any comments approve or support or non support.

We have seven written testimony in support.

Okay, any non-support?

No.

Okay.

All right.

So any other questions?

Does anybody have any other questions?

So I think this is good because you have seven in support, so that's a great and no non-support.

So that makes it better.

So that's letting us know that we are all thinking on the same uh terms.

So on that, I'll allow Audown Sweisser to close.

Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman, and members of the committee.

I appreciate all the time that you took uh to hear this bill out.

Of course, you know, huge thank you to Commissioner Jankowski and Director Hayes.

Uh, this has been uh such a group effort to get this right and not have uh just Alderman writing a bill.

Uh that you know, we think works, but without the the um much needed guidance and expertise of the department, it really has led with them saying what they need and and Caitlin Smith, Michael Browning's legislative assistant, really synthesizing a lot of that information from stakeholders.

So um just wanted to make sure to recognize her work on this yet again.

Um, and with that, I I appreciate your consideration of this bill, and and I hope that uh we're able that you're able to pass it out today with a due pass recommendation.

Okay, on that note, could uh could you add me as a co-sponsor, please?

Thank you.

Okay, on that note, uh Madam Clerk, could we uh get a vote?

Roll call.

Yeah, I'll move.

I'll move, I'll move, I'll make a motion here.

Alder Woman, I move we adopt or bill 78 committee substitute with the due pass recommendation.

Second previous role.

No objection.

All right.

Congratulations.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

All right.

So we don't have any uh well announcements.

We excuse members would be Alder Woman Tyus and Alder Woman Sony.

And on that notion, on that motion, I'll ask for a um closure of the meeting, adjournment of the meeting.

I move to adjourn.

Thank you.

You all have a good day.

Second.