Good morning.

Today is Wednesday, February the eleventh, ten oh nine, and this is a budget and public employees committee.

Madam Clerk, please call the role.

Present.

We have quorum.

With that, we have established a quorum.

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from Wednesday, February 4th, 2020.

I move that we approve the minutes from Wednesday, February 4th, 2026.

Second.

Alder Woman Sonye.

Vice Chair Browning.

Alder Woman Velasquez.

Hi.

Alderman Devotee.

Hi.

Chair Aldrick.

Aye.

Alder Woman Sanyer.

We have four eye votes.

With that, we approve the minutes from Wednesday, February 4th, 2026.

We'll move on to item number four, which is board bills for review.

And today we have Board Bill 98, sponsored by Alderwoman Keys.

Whenever you're ready, you may come up to present your bill.

Good morning, budget committee.

May I please have the uh the clerk or secretary to read the summary?

Thank you.

Board bill number 98 introduced by Alder Woman Laura Keys.

This board bill seeks to authorize the assurance by the city acting through the treasurer of the city in his capacity as supervisor of parking meters of up to five million dollars.

Aggregate principal amount of parking revenue bonds.

The bonds will be secured and payable solely from the parking asset assets pledged under the indenture of trusts, dated as of December 1st, 2006, as amended and supplemented from time to time, including real property and future income proceeds from the sale of the bonds will be used to one finance the cost of the acquisition of certain real estate, provide for the funding of any required debt service reserve funds, if any, and pay the costs associated with ensuring the bonds.

So the the bonds that the treasurer's office um are able to take out to secure uh the lot at the corner of Compton and Olive.

Um will help in in so many ways for um Pappy's restaurant, which is there and their tenant, as well as Harris Stowe, who has a bookstore which is right in back of their campus.

Um there were some concerns about this bill.

Those have all been ironed out, and we have experts here this morning to uh to talk about those things, including uh Adam Lane, who is our city's treasurer.

All right, thank you, Ms.

Alderwoman Keys.

Did you want to have uh either uh did you have any experts to I would like for uh uh Mr.

Lane to probably begin and then we can call the others from there?

Um and I'm sorry, how many people do we have all together?

Just you okay seven, we'll say seven people.

Well, let's go ahead and and uh swear everybody in first if that's okay.

Yeah, that's fine.

Everyone that is speaking today, could you raise your oh just the treasurer?

Mr.

Treasurer, Mr.

Lane, come on up, our luxurious treasurer.

Uh will you be going through the presentation?

Yes, yes.

All right.

If we could pull that on up, madam clerk.

Morning, Mr.

Treasurer.

Good morning, Mr.

Chair.

Are you ready?

You need to swear me in.

I don't need to be sworn.

Yeah, you're a city employee.

We hope all city employees tell the truth, right?

Yep.

I solemnly swear.

All right, good morning.

Um, again, Mr.

Chair, good morning, members of the committee.

So uh I'll wait until the presentation is pulled up, but I'll take in a moment to introduce myself.

So I am Adam Lane, a service treasurer for the city of St.

Louis.

Um, a few things that fall under my purview.

Uh, investment management for the city of St.

Louis is one.

Um, our cash management for the city uh two, our office of financial empowerment, which um puts on financial literacy programming for youth and adults is number three, and then number four, uh, under the purview of what we're talking about today, uh, is parking.

So about 8,000 metered spaces.

I'm sorry, Mr.

Lane.

Could you speak into the mic?

Yes, I can.

I'm sorry.

Thank you so much.

I'm usually not tall, but oh, you can take it off either way.

I was gonna try to raise it.

That's as tall as it goes.

Okay.

I'll just yeah, I'll talk into it.

Um, and then parking.

So we might manage about eight or eight thousand metered spaces that are on street, and then we have a total of uh 12 lots and garages that we have across the city.

Um we can go to the next next slide.

Um, so the bill that we're talking about today is relatively simple, so I'm gonna use some time to talk about uh why we're here and um do some um information sharing about the role of the treasurer's office in development, particularly as it relates to parking.

So lately, uh, as a city uh is trying to grow and trying to um go through this renaissance, we have been, and and as we have a lot of businesses and uh organizations that are growing too, um there has been a demand, more of a demand to work with our office and being able to provide parking.

Um, and we we get a lot of requests in, so there is an opportunity or probably will be an opportunity that we're back in front of you sometime in the future to support development and uh growth in the city of St.

Louis.

So what we do is in addition to operating our parking garages and lots, um private entities often look to us as a partner to be able to provide parking where either they cannot because of more expensive financing uh methods that they'd have to go through, or just an opportunity for the city to be able to control and manage that parking through our current portfolio, which provides a um provides a great economy of scale.

Um, usually our parking spaces are 15 to 20% lower in price for the public as well compared to um private entities, and then again, as an enterprise fund, we do have the authority to be able to issue bonds.

So the question is, you know, why are we here today?

You know, government checks and balances.

So one of the things which I you know agree with is anytime we need to sell um or buy something, we need to uh get board volume approval.

So what that does is allow the um you all as legislators to see you know what the city is doing with its finances and making sure that we're good stewards of that too.

We have a very lucrative space or lot um or garage, and the treasurer just goes ahead and sells it, and then all of a sudden we're like, well, we just lost an asset.

So that just gives an additional this process gives an additional check and balance um for our office.

We can go to the next slide.

Cool.

So this project specifically is the uh lot that was formerly a BP gas station at the corner of Compton and Olive.

Um, what this project will do initially, so this this uh parcel was up for sale.

Um we looked into that and thought it would be a great opportunity for the city to be in this space for many reasons.

Um, but it would create uh 143 spaces.

Um and you can see that red area is outlining the the parcel that we will have, and then you can see uh additional data on the total site area.

Um, one of the big things, like it will initially be a parking lot, but we are big in um neighborhood development, so we want to work on what the neighborhood finds important.

So I was happy to work with uh the Alderwoman, Alderwomen Keys on making sure that we had the right uh folks at the table to be able to talk about what the needs of the neighborhood are.

So I want to stress that this wasn't just the treasure's office saying, oh, we need a parking lot here, but more so being able to say, all right, this is an opportunity for the city to support development and growth in this area in line with um what the neighborhood needs, knowing that we have a lot of neighborhoods in St.

Louis that have a lot of varying needs, so we have to do what's right by by those places.

It was also very important to the seller because the seller did get other offers uh well above our offer for this property, but it's very important to the seller who had it as a gas station before him believing that it should not be a gas station, and then if it was left there, you know, not wanting it to be a nuisance property either.

Uh we can go to the next slide.

So this is just more about the um what we would turn this into.

So if you look to the far right, I don't have a laser pointer, but if you look to the far right, so that is that corner space, so that's Compton and Olive right there.

Um, and you can see the diagram outlining the new creation of the spaces, the centerpiece, if you're familiar with this lot and what it was uh prior to, but that center piece was that gas station.

Um, but you know, it's it's a parking lot, so uh not too much uh that I need to go into here.

If we go to the next slide though, uh and talking about the neighborhood development.

So one of the things that I do want to stress if you look close to so what would that be?

My north, southwest and east aren't great.

But if you look toward the west, no east side of the field.

So on the screen to the left, you'll see that building that uh hair stow building.

Directly behind it, there's actually a new access pathway.

And we were um in our conversations with Harris Stowe because we wanted this to be something that was beneficial to all the stakeholders.

Um they talked about the opportunity to have that access path because on this property um is the Hair Stow bookstore.

So that creates an access path directly from the university to to their bookstore where previously, or I guess right now, um, what Harrisot students have to do is walk all the way around to be able to get to that bookstore.

So it provides um a good footpath and and traffic for them.

Okay.

And then yeah, this is just another view of that that area.

We can go to the next slide.

Cool.

So the need for public parking, and I will speak to speak to these points first, and then I'll go into uh some other concerns that that have come up.

So uh one is just the economic growth.

We know that there's demand for this because of the business that the Shea Fitz Arena does.

And one might say, well, they have a big parking garage that's right there.

And that is a private lot.

Um and I'll speak more to private lots um in a bit, but with that, there is always overflow.

So this lot previously was pretty full.

Granted, they had a limited number of spaces because of the gas station that existed.

This lot was pretty full even during those Shea Fitz Center events.

The other thing about that is with the the um that parking garage being a private lot, they can open for events, but they don't necessarily have to.

So that is not something that's public and open to the public 24 7.

Um, so if there is an event going on in the Olive District, um, or I guess the locust district, and that is not had that does not have anything to do with the Shea Fitz, that garage might be open, it might be closed, but if it is closed, um that's their prerogative, and um that demand has to be pushed somewhere.

So there is a big demand for for parking in this area, I will say.

Um, and then also for the properties that are on there.

So Pappies is is on that, they've provided a letter of support and they have immediate um and expanding needs for parking as well.

Um, and there is a provision in the uh agreement as well to make sure that we have those reserve spaces for papis and their customers.

Uh so they'll have that.

Okay, we can go to the next slide.

Cool.

Prevalence of private parking.

So uh in a nutshell, and I'm sure you all know this from your work as as alders, uh, whenever a developer, especially a developer that might have housing units, is putting up that um putting up that uh development, they usually try to make it more attractive by offering by saying that there will be parking spaces offered for for those who um want it.

And what that actually creates, and you can see that a lot in this district are spots that have private parking, um, but it's specifically for that building.

So uh developer could put up a building that has a hundred, say 200 units, and they have uh 75 units of parking on their private parking lot.

Um if they have 75 tenants that use that parking, great.

Um, that parking lot is full.

Oftentimes that's not really the case.

So they might have a lot that has 75 spaces and 25 people are using it on average.

Um and then when you multiply this by multiple developments in that space, you have underutilization of private lots.

The problem, uh, well, that's already a problem.

The um uh further problem there is that if there are public events, um, people can't park on these lots.

So if they're going to Pappies, they can't park on the private lot for you know ABC lofts.

Um, so it appears that well, there's more parking available there and there are more lots there.

There are, they're just not public lots and lots that people can use to access public parking.

Um, I think this is a larger problem and one that uh my team is looking to, I wouldn't say solve, but look uh looking more into how the treasurer's office and the public parking division of the city can be a solution uh generating entity in this space and really take the lead in working with developers.

But this actually works to solve that.

So if a developer is saying, hey, we want to um put up residential units, we need 25 parking spots instead of actually building their own parking lot or securing space to put up a private parking lot, they would just do a master lease with the treasure's office, which is what we do with um a lot of other um residential developments and spaces just to make sure that we're we're being efficient as a city and maximizing our space in the best way.

But they would enter a master lease, they would um, you know, they go and promote their development, say that we have 25 spots available for their 100 units or whatever it may be, and then they're actually using that public parking, they have their master leases and still are able to capture transient parking um for events and and anything else that might happen.

So, what this allows us to do again is have developers that know that there are public options that they can partner with to get those leases, have parking available for their tenants without um putting up yet another lot.

Um, I think there was a comment online, and I love online comments, but um there was a comment online about like how does more parking lots uh mean less parking lots, and that's actually one way.

The more I would say public parking lots that we can create so that if there are two developers coming in, they need 50 parking lots instead of having two lots that are going to be at 25% occupancy.

We can use a treasurer's office lot, a public parking lot to be able to satisfy that developing developer need, um, and then make sure that we either have more green space, make sure that we have more um land for development that's going to be storefronts and um and things that that are not just parking lots and girls that are sitting there.

Uh next slide.

Cool.

Um appraisal overview.

So we got an appraisal um it appraised for 3.4.

Um so yeah, so that's that's the appraisal.

Next slide.

And then improvements.

So the initial improvements, um, it's about uh let's see.

That's a little small.

Maybe it's not mine.

Okay, yeah.

So about $877,000.

So that would go into making this lot uh available for for the plan that we already proposed.

So you can see all the details in there, but most of that is just paving, fencing, um, and security updates.

So everything in our improvement list is in line with the parking lot ordinance that passed uh a little while ago to make sure all parking lots, especially in the downtown and near downtown areas are safe for um for the public, which is super important to us, and then also the stakeholders in the area.

Okay, next slide.

So this is also more of an education slide, but um people like to know where their tax dollars are going.

So there's no taxpayer dollars used for this.

This is one a revenue bond, which just means that the revenues uh that are made from the operation of the property are used to to pay for the debt that is issued.

Um, but also in a the larger context, uh the parking division is an enterprise fund, so no taxpayer dollars go to fund the parking division.

Um so any revenues or any money that the parking division makes um go to cover cover our costs.

Cool.

Next slide.

I've talked mostly uh already about just the community engagement and um letting our uh uh stakeholders in the area know what the the plan is, both the immediate and the long-term plan.

So as uh neighborhoods develop um we know that the needs change, so we want to understand what the priority we wanted to understand what the priorities of the the district were, what the uh stakeholders around the area, what their priorities were, and make sure we were in line with that.

And we know that we'll continue well past this phase as well.

Cool.

Next slide.

So what a yes vote means um as I close, uh I'll just reiterate a few things.

So again, we want to make sure that St.

Louis is always uh a city that's growing economically and advancing.

So that will do that.

Uh and an intersection that would otherwise be vacant, I guess, or otherwise be a gas station.

Um, we're able to transform that and also just uh be able to prepare for the future, and then the public safety piece as well, um, making sure that we have a lot that one is secure, it's fenced, and it's operational, it's a big thing uh of public safety, and then we're maximizing the city's presence in that area, especially uh with the Shea Fitz being one of the premier venues uh nationwide, really.

Next slide.

That's it.

So I will take any questions that you have, but that's that's it for my presentation.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

Treasurer.

Uh start in order of seniority.

One day public comment.

Yeah.

Do we have anybody from public to testify?

Yes, we have one individual that's signed up.

All righty.

Uh the individual who signed up to testify.

Would you like to raise your right hand so we can swear you in?

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Uh yes.

All right.

You can come on up.

You have three minutes, just state your first and last name, and then what you reside in, and then you can proceed.

Thank you.

Hi.

Uh my name is uh Alec Belcher.

Uh, I live in Dogtown uh and I work in Midtown.

What's the ward?

I'm sorry.

Oh, sorry, ward uh four.

Thank you.

Uh I'm here to oppose uh board bill 98 because I think we should not have a new parking lot or garage at uh Compton and Olive.

Um new parking would rob us of a better land use for this location, uh like commercial space, housing, or a walkable destination, uh things that are a real investment in our community.

Um I'd like to point out that 43% of households in midtown uh do not own a vehicle, and they have few alternatives to driving.

So I think that we need to be prioritizing uh building walkable infrastructure for these people, uh not just catering to people who just drive their cars through Midtown.

Uh because I think if you turn everything into a parking lot, there will be nothing left to visit anyway.

Um I've brought this picture showing uh every surface parking lot and garage in midtown in black.

As you can see, they're all over the place.

Uh this is uh this is not even show the uh the extent of the uh the street parking that is available.

Um is ample.

Uh the treasurer has said that a new garage would renew uh reduce the need for these serve uh these private lots.

But respectfully, I don't see how you solve an excess parking problem with more parking.

I urge the board of aldermen to reevaluate board bill ninety-eight.

Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you for coming today to testify.

Uh do we have anybody online to testify, Madam Clerk?

We have none.

All right.

Uh do we have any public comment?

I mean, uh what is it?

Uh testimony submitted.

No.

No.

All right.

We'll start an order of seniority with Vice Chair Browning.

All right, thank you.

Uh good to see you, Treasurer Wayne.

Um I was wondering that all the lots right now that exist in that space are owned by the same owner.

Is that correct?

I don't know who the owner of those lots are.

Um I would say probably not.

I think there are so if you're on locust, there are some lots that are owned by the property managers of those different developments.

So if those are similar developments, then yes, but I would probably say a lot of those are not owned by the same owner.

Well, what I mean is the lots that were that we're acquiring here.

Uh oh, just on this property.

Okay, I thought you were referring to print out.

No, uh yes, they are owned by the same owner.

So so what prevents that owner from just using this as a private parking lot and charging, you know, for the spaces uh on their own.

Yep.

So I mean, if I could give an analogy, it's like if someone owns a four-family house and they're selling it, they could also just say, well, what prevents them from just renting it out and um you know, taking the proceeds there.

So the owner just doesn't, well, one want to be in the parking business, um, and they might have other capital needs for other projects.

So it's just something they didn't want to to do.

But uh, if I'm reading this uh correctly, 58 of these 143 spaces are gonna be reserved for the seller.

Not exactly the seller, but yes, so that would be the an example of a master.

So they are at least spaces to make sure that Pappy still has their spaces.

So those spaces are the ones in the rendering right behind Pappies, and it would only be from eight to five.

So during their operational businesses, so that's for their employees and customers.

So the rest of the time it would be a public lot, but between eight and five, it would be reserved for papies and those businesses.

Yes.

And essentially it's uh it would it's a public lot throughout those times because it would be the public parking there to go to Pappies.

Um, but it it would essentially be free parking for so people going to Pappies would not be charged to go to Pappies.

Okay, and it's a master lease, so are they paying to rent those spaces to we would own it, but they would be using it?

I believe so.

Is that accurate?

Is that a master, is that a master lease?

Uh for the space.

If anybody uh if you have anybody speaking, it would be if they end up just a mic, so that yeah, you find so yes, yes, it would be.

So how what is the estimated cost for like running this lot versus what would the city get from these spaces as a purchase price of these are for five million dollars in bonds?

I see that the assessment we came around 3.5 million.

Uh so I'm assuming we're not absolutely paying five million for this.

We're paying about 3.5 potentially.

Um, and then there's obviously the improvements that need to be made uh for another 800 to 900,000.

Um I'm just kind of curious about like the operation of this since this is an enterprise fund since it has to be paid for as you put it, the revenue bonds, revenues from the operation of the property are used to pay back the debt.

Um, so what would these spaces need to make in order to in like how quickly do we expect to make up the cost of the acquisition and improvement of this property?

What do the what does each space need to make?

So yeah, like what is the cost?

What are the revenue projections?

Like how long would it take to pay off the cost of uh acquisition and improvement at this property?

So, like any project, especially on a revenue bond, well, one, you don't get the bond unless you can uh pledge those revenues to it at at least 1.2 to 1.9 times.

So we're looking at 1.2 to 1.9, and we we're gonna be significantly over that, but 1.2 to 1.9 times what the annual services are.

So just to clarify, you're saying 1.2 to 1.9 times what the annual service.

So like I'm still I'm not quite understanding.

So is it that how like how many years I suppose like if you're buying the house, right?

And you have a mortgage, like you know you're gonna pay it off in 30 years if you get a 30 year mortgage.

Like, what do we assuming?

Yeah.

So I I understand what you're asking.

And I will say in the parking business specifically for a lot, there are a lot of variables that go into that.

So it's not like again, if I use the word, you know, unit uh home example, it's not like, well, I charge $1,200 in rent for each unit.

Um, because you're gonna have it's almost like if you have four units and maybe you have uh six month tenant, and then you also have Airbnb and some of the you know units at certain parts of the year.

So we have both transient parking, we have master lease.

Um one thing that could happen is that we do have master lease with another um uh residential developer that might be there.

Um so they could come in and say we've previously parked here or we haven't been able to park anyone and we want to come in.

So the revenues will come both from transit parking from potential master leases, which you know we don't know about.

It could also come from student parking and then events change on a year by year basis.

So we even when we use our um uh our lots downtown, City Hall Lot, uh Keel Garage or the Enterprise Garage, um, every year there are a certain number of events, but those events are not the same.

They don't all have the same demand.

Um, but that's why I said what we have to do is at least make sure that we're meeting our minimum debt service requirements, and we know that that is gonna be at least at least 1.2 to 1.9 times what that annual payment would be.

Okay, yeah.

I I because to go along with the analogy here, like if if I did have a four family and I was renting it out, I'd at least make want to make sure that the revenue I was getting from it was gonna pay the acquisition cost of it.

Absolutely.

But like if I say took out a mortgage to buy it, I want to make sure that the payments were at least paying the mortgage plus maintenance, uh, and then hopefully a little extra too.

Otherwise, what was the point of buying it?

Right, exactly.

And you and your biggest thing there would be the demand, making sure that you can fill the units.

Um, in terms of price, that's going to be dictated by the market.

So I could talk about what prices are, but those are just our normal prices that we charge at our lots right now.

And you mentioned that the prices are usually a little more affordable than like private options.

Is there a reason we offer cheaper parking than private options?

Like shouldn't I I it feels like we're subsidizing it a little bit for we we are uh Mr.

Browning?

If you would like for us to increase it, we can do that.

But I I would caution against it.

So one of the lots that we operate is City Hall lot, right?

And most of the folks who park there are city parkers um at a monthly rate.

Um and if we were to increase that, a majority of our parkers are, you know, city parkers, especially at our garages.

So we're um uh garage over by T Rex might be charging $200 a month, probably at, you know, one twenty, um, one ten for our garages here, not because of the location or the type of garage or the upkeep, but mainly because we want to keep prices affordable and we know that you know, as an enterprise fund, you know, our goal is not to, you know, make as much money as possible.

We still want to be fiscally responsible, but we understand who we're we're working for.

And it's, you know, at least in these garages and lots here, it's for our our city employees.

So it would be unreasonable for us to increase those.

Yeah, and obviously I'd I'd want to look into it more with more information about what price you know we're charging versus the demand and how we're kind of inducing demand by perhaps provide uh as you put it in excess of parking um kind of encourages people to drive to the event rather than find alternate ways to go.

But that being said, if you've ever tried to take the metro link to like Shape It's Arena, it's not really a pleasant way to get there because uh one, that stop is underneath the highway and and you have to kind of go up and walk along a really busy street that doesn't have a great sidewalk and it's just kind of not a walkable area.

Um, but that that's a tangent.

Um I I think I'm just kind of focused on the cost because uh if you're looking at you know five million for a hundred and forty-three spots, really eighty-five spots that are ours uh a hundred percent of the time, that works out to be about fifty-eight thousand uh spots or fifty thousand eight hundred and twenty-four dollars per spot.

Um it typically costs fifteen hundred, just quick research here, but as I was looking at quick uh clearly costs about fifteen hundred to thirty five hundred per parking space for like a surface parking lot, twenty-five thousand to thirty-five thousand for space for an above ground garage.

This feels like we're overpaying for a parking lot.

Um, but I'm I'm trying to hear from you.

Like, what is it that makes this land uh at this price that makes this deal work well for the city?

So uh if you could clarify a little more the overpayment part.

So we are actually so our purchase price is under the appraisal price, and we also used our comp.

So like I said, we have we're in the parking business.

So we uh actually used Comp stat.

We have um we did have a sale back in 2021 or 2022 uh for one of our properties as well.

That's over down by the landing.

So when you say overvalued, I'm I'm trying to understand.

Well, just to be clear, what is the sale price?

Like what are we buying the what is the property being bought for?

I believe it's in the packet, but is it point two?

3.4.

3.4.

So 3.4 million.

So like if I just do the math here, 3.4 million divided by we'll just do it for the 143 spots, that comes out to be about 23,000 per spot.

So that's like the cost of building a parking garage.

Uh, but it's for a surface lot instead.

The other prices that you just mentioned, what were those again?

Uh so typically 1,500 to 3,500 per parking space for a surface lot uh versus 25,000.

I can I'm sorry, I can't 15 to 30.

1500 per 3,000 3500.

Like so it can range depending on the amenities you're offering or lighted or you know, cameras or whatnot.

And we're within that range.

Uh well, this this would put us at if you're looking at the 143 spots, about 23,776 per spot uh at a purchase price of about 3.4 million.

That's that's like we're building a parking garage, but we're not.

You said surface lot.

Sorry, what was that?

You said surface lot.

Right.

Well, so the surface lot cost is is much cheaper.

Uh it'd be like 1,500 to 3,500 per spot.

But if but at 3.4 million for 143 spaces, I'm looking at 23,776 per spot.

And that's more in line with like if we were building a parking garage.

So is there and I know you mentioned that we might build a parking garage at some point in the future, but that's we've we've also built parking garages, and I can tell you that's not the that's not the go, right?

We were looking at a parking garage not too long ago um right downtown behind Wash Avenue working with SLDC on that.

And when we got our numbers in, we were looking at 48 to 50,000 uh a space.

Uh so I don't I think it's helpful to know what your numbers are based on and what and all garages are different, all lots are different for sure.

But when we're talking about construction crop costs and where they've gone since 2020, I I wouldn't, I would I will happily concede to you that a parking garage might cost more than that, but uh but I think my point being that I think per spot for a service parking lot, to what 23,000 seems a little bit uh like a lot for a surface parking lot of uh 143 spaces.

I don't feel like the numbers you presented justify that.

I feel like you said that we were in that range and then but that range is not for a parking garage.

Right.

So I don't I'm I don't want to confuse it here, but I'm what I'm saying is uh 1,500 to 3,500 per parking space for a surface lot and we're in this deal we would be paying 23,000.

1,500 per spot, right?

So yeah, and we can do it per square footage too, like there's different ways to figure it out.

But you know, I'm saying that I think that we're we're paying a lot of money per spot here.

So that's why I'm just trying to make sure that we are doing a good deal for the city.

Um it it kind of if this was like for a garage and we were looking at something like what the treasurer's office operates in nine north uh in the central west end, you're familiar with that garage, I'm assuming.

Um like where there's apartments above and retail on the first four.

I think that would be a great use for this property.

Uh I I am concerned about the purchase price that we're making this property for, and then the projected or kind of iffy revenue.

I I don't know that we're looking at um guaranteed revenue that justifies uh a purchase price of of three point four million dollars.

Okay.

But if you have more information on that, I'd love to see it.

Um I don't know what more information I can provide for you other than an appraisal of the value and its developments.

I don't I don't know what else would be needed.

So I I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on the pricing just based on I I don't really know what your basis for your prices are.

One, and also what we've actually come to the board to sell property at.

So if we've been able to sell at a certain price, which is well in line with what we've done historically, I don't know how buying at a similar price within a similar range under that is um.

But I mean, your your numbers are your numbers.

We we did our due diligence with ours.

I'd be happy to talk more about the basis for our appraisal.

I'd be happy to look at comps with you.

Um again, try to put up a group a garage and couldn't make the financing work, and we could a garage for 19,000 or 1900 a space.

I'd I'd like to see it.

Um if you could point me in that direction, we'll we'll talk to their their bondholders.

Yeah.

So like what I'm saying is typically a service parking lot can cost like 1,500 per spot, right?

And we're paying 23,000 under this deal for each spot at a at a total price of about 3.4 million plus then the 800 or so thousand of improvements.

So I guess what I'm looking for is like a financial analysis of this to show that we were will be able to coop the cost from these 143 spaces and how much that would take for sure to to meet that cost.

So again, I I'm not confused about what you said your numbers are.

I just don't know where the where the numbers are based from.

Just one but Googling, um, happy to share you know the sources with you.

Um it's kind of difficult to do so in this format.

But I get it.

And I I would say, you know, I guess it would have saved us money to Google, but we did get an appraisal, which costs uh a bit of money just to make sure that you know you all had enough information to make the best decision possible, which which I get.

Um and then I would say the third thing is we don't, you know, we don't just create our own bonds, so we have to go out for bond financing.

So if there was a financial entity, um, a bank, um, uh an investment company that didn't feel like once we presented our valuation as well as our revenue projections that we wouldn't be able to secure the bond, they won't issue one.

Okay.

Um so I don't want to belabor this further.

Um I I think I'm gonna vote present on this today.

Uh, but if if we can talk after this and figure these numbers out, I'm happy to support this in the future if we can figure out the the cost per square foot and all that and just you know have the numbers make sense.

Um the other thing I just want to like I reiterate is that uh I think that a mixed use uh development on this corner would be like Compton and Olive are two major roads, right?

And so we have this opportunity to create um kind of like uh the member from the public today, Mr.

Belcher said, like uh a much longer term beneficial development here.

I think there's an opportunity to both provide parking and another use, but right now it it feels like we're paying a lot of money to obtain a private parking lot, turn it into a public parking lot, but then still give a lot of spaces to the private entity we're buying it from.

And the deal just doesn't quite make sense to me at the time.

So um again, I'd I'll love to connect with you after this, but um, sure, sure.

We we can.

I will say for the public though, you know, the the pro parking lot isn't the final stop.

I did say that we want to make sure that it's in line with what the development goals of the neighborhood are in the district are.

Um we did pitch to the district an opportunity because they said there was a need for workforce housing and student housing in the area, particularly for Slough and Harris Stowe students.

Um and so that those are things that are on the table and making sure that there is a residential pad above that.

And I will say those things happen when I mean we can't plan for something that we don't own.

Um so we can plan right now.

We know it is up for sale right now, and we can put and make sure there's availability for parking given the demands now for the future developments.

We're definitely um building this with the intent to make sure that it doesn't remain or it can only be a parking lot.

So we're building that pad, we're building that area to make sure that there's an opportunity for there for uh for there to be residential above it.

Um but again, that doesn't that doesn't happen if we don't own it.

Um and then yes, we can we can talk but mathematically the cost doesn't go down if we one have less spots, one and then two, yes, those 40 spaces are reserved, but those are paid spots as well and spots that will be used.

Okay, I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Ohderwoman Velasquez.

Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Treasurer Lane, for being here.

Um, I'm not gonna get too much into the numbers.

I think my question is obviously for Alderman Keys, too.

I know this is her ward and she knows this neighborhood well.

I think my my question is a little bit in line with uh the broader question Alderman Browning was asking is I mean, is does this fit into the neighborhood, the area's broader development plans and is this you know the highest and best use for this for this land?

I mean, I know that um it's an important area, and obviously we want to support businesses.

Uh, but just wondering how this fits into the long-term plans uh to boost that neighborhood.

Yep.

So I can speak a little bit to it from uh my conversations with the developers in the area and members of the um uh improvement district and then Alderwoman Keys, if you want to say anything else.

Uh, but we had been approached uh, well, since my tenure here a number of times about parking in the district.

If you look along, if you leave just the uh the olive side and you go to locust, um a lot of development has happened in that area.

There is street parking up and up and down the corridor, but uh mostly that's for the businesses and you have a lot more residential in that area.

Um you also have the Cransberg Foundation that's looking to extend um into that area as well and make that a connecting point as we try to get our neighborhoods more connected and walkable.

Um and as we do that, you know, St.

Louis is still a place I would love to live in in a St.

Louis where I didn't need a car either.

Um St.

Louis is a place where you drive to your destination.

But if we can make it so that people drive to a destination, but then are able to walk for miles to uh all their attractions, I think that um is a great uh a great thing.

We uh, like I said, we've been approached by by a lot of developers um to that are looking to have more retail there and their hindrance there, they're not approaching us to put up retail, but they're they're hindrance, they're saying there isn't um enough parking to be able to support the addition of uh more retail um and more business storefronts, but they don't want you know parking to be uh to have to be a private thing where you have each storefront has to have its own um private parking lot.

So they're looking for the city to lead in this way.

So though that's what I've seen from the conversations that I've had, but I'll pass it over to the Alderwoman.

Thank you for the question.

Uh Alder Woman of Alaska is so the where this lot sits, it really is at a place that um is little grand center, a little midtown, a little locust business district.

And we are expanding.

There are a lot of businesses that have come into the area within the last two years.

There are more coming, more developments coming to make the area a more walkable um community.

Um there does need to be a place for people who are coming in from other places, park their car and be able to walk to an event at, for instance, let's say the sovereign or over to Energizer Park or whatever.

And so there is a need here.

In addition, uh, as um Treasurer Lane uh spoke about.

So I stepping over as Treasurer Lane spoke about, um, is that there are some soft plans for future development on this very lot.

But the big thing is that to support Harris Stowe as well as the other businesses and especially Pappies, who is looking to expand their hours.

They've never had uh hours, you know, well uh about where they're trying to get to, because parking has been an issue.

So providing a well-lit parking lot with surveillance cameras, place to park in your electric car if you have it.

Um so that's that's more of the the way that um we're looking at this thing as being a great thing for the area.

Thank you, Alder Woman.

Do we have have they written letters of support?

I know sometimes um neighborhoods don't always fully reflect, you know, associations as always reflect everybody in an area, but are have there been have any of those associations?

They have both.

Yes.

cameras place to park in your electric car if you have it um so that's that's more of the the way that um we're looking at this thing as being a great thing for the area thank you older woman do we have have they written letters of support i know sometimes um neighborhoods don't always fully reflect you know associations as i always reflect everybody in an area but are have there been have any of those associations they have both yes they have both the locust business district and the and they should be in the drive okay i miss that okay and then my my next thank you older woman my my final question is just just in the event i know we just went through a bunch of numbers in the last conversation my brain hurts a little bit from that um but just supposing supposing you know uh how dependent is this project on the revenue of papis and you know uh kind of what are the other I mean not that we would want a business to go to we would want them to go away but I mean what are the kind of projections uh how are you basing it on the revenue from the businesses and how that is going to support it and you know say one of these does go out of business or Chafitz you know has a slow season again hopefully these things aren't going to happen but um you know what would how are the projections and how is that math yeah so uh we work that into our uh financial projections for the revenue calculator or for the calculator for the revenue bonds um alder women so we look at what would it look like in a high season uh average and low um again the the best thing well one we always do uh you know we we do demand studies so we look at what is the current demand in that area what are they currently bringing in um and then we look at that those events and what we charge so we look at that to to to get our revenue projections and I um having seen what those look like um I don't doubt our ability to to more than cover our debt service uh ratio to issue these revenue bonds in down years again um we saw that with uh I guess the best example I can give you is with COVID so once uh COVID hit in 2020 we can operate 15 garages and lots so we saw that downturn especially in the downtown uh area um and I will say we're if we if we can make it through COVID we can make it through a a year of maybe the Sheffit center of events going down I don't project or see that happening um uh like I said we have the the national numbers to show like just how much of a um standout they are on the national level in terms of events but to to your main question our revenues are not just dependent on Pappy's one um they have some spots but it's not just them it's the it's the entire area and that area has um significant demand from things that are going on at Hairstone things that are going on at Shafits and also uh on locust uh and olive you're on mute alderman any other questions thank you treasurer lane thank you chairman Alderman Devotee yes thank you chair and thank you treasurer and older woman I appreciate the presentation um I uh I had the pleasure of practicing for a handful of years at the intersection of Compton and Washington Avenue so I am very very familiar with the area uh treasure you you said something that I I found interesting and that is with respect to need in the area general need in the area for additional parking when I think of the area I think of and older woman keys mentioned it the the locust district and the number of small businesses that are growing up along Locust but also Washington Avenue um to what extent do you think olive serves as a hindrance when we talk about pedestrian traffic or uh walkers uh I know that that when I worked in the area and I and I was walking to lunch typically I would avoid crossing olive um is is that an issue in your mind I'm trying to wrap my mind around my head around this especially in that area uh I would say absolutely um and when events are happening even more so I would say cars on the Compton side tend to move a little I try to go to events uh uh as much as I can but on the Compton side they'll move a little slower because folks are trying to ingress and egress and into spots um and and parking but uh on the um olive side you know cars cars are flying and it's pretty wide and you'll see folks going in and out I would definitely um think that's um more pedestrian friendly measures could be put in place I don't know uh I guess it's we all call it traffic calming or um street narrowing or or something I think that would be helpful um along that along that strip because the yeah I I think it would be helpful because it can be dangerous and daunting to cross uh over olive so to be clear when we talk about the development of business or serving potential folks coming to the area um we're we're really talking about then serving folks that are attending events or visiting the area I guess that would be south of olive whether it's for Shafits whether it's for Pappys whether it's for students uh visiting the Harristo bookstore is that right then

So to be clear, when we talk about the development of business or serving potential folks coming to the area, um we're we're really talking about then serving folks that are attending events or visiting the area.

I guess that would be south of Olive, whether it's for Shafits, whether it's for Pappies, whether it's for students uh visiting the Harristo bookstore.

Is that right then?

I would say yes, and but I wouldn't just say south of Olive just because of what the locust street presents as well.

Um and again, if I can if I can hop across uh I can hop across Olive and get to Locust, you know, the world is my oyster going up and down that street and only have to worry about parking, you know, one place.

I mean, during the events, even at the the Shafits, I've I've seen folks, I forget the name of the uh there's a bar, a sports bar and lounge uh closer to Grand, um, right over in that area, and folks will walk uh down that way all the way to to the Shafits to get there.

So I do agree, if we create more walkable spaces and increase that density, folks will park and walk as a as an East Coast native, it's it's what most other places do.

You park and you walk forever and then you hopefully remember where your car was.

I I think you're referring to the field house in a couple of weeks, that'll be the place everybody will want to watch the the billicons, right?

March Madness.

Um yeah, and and and that I guess that then goes to uh you know, and I think there was a reference earlier to uh overpayment uh for the lot, which I know you took issue with, and I respect that.

Uh, I know that you've you've mentioned the appraisal that that your office commissioned, and and thank you for doing that.

What caught my attention, and perhaps I'm misremembering, but when word of this was uh originally hit the press, and maybe Alder Woman Keys might be a better person to answer this question, but my memory is Alder Woman, that you express some reservation about the price tag.

Uh that the thought was, and again, if if I am misremembering, please straighten me out.

But the thought being is that a more comparable rate for what parcels are going in the area would be near one million dollars or or in that ballpark.

So if one of you would maybe educate me, and I know you've got the appraisal, but we also know how appraisals work.

Alder Woman, maybe you could educate us on what you have learned since those initial reports that that that caused you to file this this particular bill.

Thank you, uh Alderman Devotee.

So initially, when the the bill was first presented, yes, I had some serious concerns because I wanted to see an appraisal, you know, that I did believe that five million was too much, and that that was my perception that that was the cost.

Um and so now we have the appraisal.

I'm satisfied um with that.

Um, and there was a lack of communication that we were we've been able to get past and uh sit down with the team in the treasurer's office and go through this thing uh to examine if this is truly something that could be beneficial to the area.

So the area there at Grand Center, Midtown, all of those things kind of converge.

And there are a ton of great venues in the area, and people drive in from Illinois, they drive in from our various counties and other areas of our city to enjoy uh what those venues have to offer to our citizenry.

And so um having a lot, and and not to throw shade at Shafids, but I've been there and you know, there have been times where you know I went to a concert or something, and it's a garage, and and it takes you a while to get out of there.

And so to have the option to park on a flat lot to be able to have one way in and one way out, I think would be beneficial to people who are going to various restaurants.

Uh, you know, shout out to the Cransbergs who are doing phenomenal work in bringing entertainment venues uh to midtown um and to grand center.

And so I do believe that this is a good thing.

I am satisfied with the appraisal that we now have.

But when we talk about growing the uh what I think of it as the grand center or the the locust business district, uh do you have a thought about whether a better investment in parking would be on the north side of Olive versus this particular lot?

Could can you educate me your thoughts there?

I don't know that there is a place on the north side of Olive that is you know available for this sort of thing.

Um this is a a place that has presented itself um for purchase.

And the the first initial conversations that we had and we're continuing to have is that how can we bring that into a multi-use uh place where you know there's living uh garage space as well, and that's exciting, especially uh for Harris Stowe uh students or people who live in the area who you know don't want to have to have a car.

They could live right, you know, close to where they they work or where they own their business.

So I think that this is a really great thing that uh we have the opportunity to be enjoyed in.

Uh finally, Alder Woman, I know the the treasurer made mention of other potential buyers.

Do you know through through your suit through your seat?

Uh do we know anything about those other potential buyers and and any any of their proposed uses or what their plan might have might be?

I I don't have any of that information.

That gas station.

Oh we already said no to gas stations.

You know, so we we gas stations I I don't even count, I'm sorry, I don't even count gas stations as a serious um proposal simply because we are inundated with gas stations.

And I I really believe in the elevated 11th ward, and I've said this many times to those uh persons who have contacted me about yet another gas station, is why do you think I need that in my community?

My my community is not clamoring for yet another gas station or convenience store.

And so, like I said, I I'm almost dismissive because I wanted to hear something really substantive about what the people in my community want.

And it I guarantee you, it's not gas stations.

Fair enough.

Uh last question.

Uh, with respect to, and and if the appraisals were were provided, I missed it.

I overlooked it.

But it sounds like you've reviewed the appraisals that the that the treasurer's office commissioned, and you are satisfied with the numbers you've seen.

Is that a fair statement?

I I am satisfied at this point.

We understand that it's going to still take, even though the tanks are out of the ground, we still understand that some work has to be done.

Uh the resurfacing, adding of additional lighting to make it a a bright and and inviting place that you feel safe parking and walking away from your vehicles, security uh uh cameras as well as um, you know, being able to accommodate people who drive the new electronic vehicles.

So I'm okay at this point.

Thank you, Walderwin.

Thank you, Treasurer, and uh thank you, Chair.

I appreciate your patience.

And Mr.

Chair, if I could add uh just for one of the questions that Alderman Devote had asked.

So uh you one of the questions you asked brought up a great point, Alderman.

Oh, you didn't say yes, sir.

I mean anyway, I don't want to say you can proceed, Mr.

Treasurer.

Uh one of the things you did bring up was just, you know, uh the questions that you asked got me to think about what is the and I think about what is the opportunity cost of the city not having this space, right?

So um we could not purchase this this parcel and a private entity could could purchase it.

The seller could say, well, I'm you know, I I don't want to to own this, someone else can open open it, um, and I I'm gonna take my cash and go.

And that's fine.

And we think about the opportunity costs is that still gonna serve Pappies as a business if you have a private lot and you that says, well, you know, we want to charge market rates, and this is or non-market rates, and this is just what we're gonna charge.

Um, and what does that do to the current businesses that are there and have been operating in that and that time frame?

But also, if you know a gas station does go up and they're doing really well, and the neighborhood comes back and says, Well, we like to do this.

Well, I'm a private gas stationer.

I don't have to do anything.

Whereas, you know, with the city, we have an opportunity to say, okay, well, if these are the needs and the growing concerns of of this neighborhood, this is where we can be flexible, turning a lot into a garage with residential or turning uh uh a lot into a green space.

We have that opportunity as a city, but that's a that's an opportunity that we forego if we don't step in.

And it's like we could not, but what do we forego?

Thank you, Treasurer.

And uh, and thank you for making the point that I asked a good question that made you think of a good point.

Several good questions because I know the chair loves hearing things like that.

So it's appreciated.

I always appreciate the amazing questions that come from the newest member of this budget committee, uh Alderman Devotee.

He gets so lawyery, you almost thought he was a lawyer or something, the way he does dissect those questions.

And to that, yeah, I will say one, I support the legislation.

The last thing you just brought up, uh, Mr.

Treasurer is, you know, I think that's a really good point that city taking this on gives uh a better opportunity to work with stakeholders in the community and the alder person to figure out what that development is.

It sounds like the city wasn't to uh get this uh parcel that the private operator or the people that wanted to privately own it would turn it to a gas station.

And I totally support the Alder Woman at 11th ward.

Northside, even though this is this is the unique part of our war where we got you know North and kind of midtown, and we've been working very closely when you talk about development in the uh locust business district.

We've been working with the locust business district.

We actually got some appointments coming up this week to bring more uh development to that area.

I think it's some really exciting things that's coming, but you know, Northside is already saturated with gas stations.

And if you just look at the map at Jefferson and Dale more, my ward, there's already not too far from this location as a gas station.

You go a little further down.

Jefferson by 40 uh is another gas station, so there's really no need.

So I do love the idea of being able to um city owning this to figure out what that development is.

If it's a surface parking lot, it makes it a lot easier to kind of build from there.

Um, and I love that you guys are already looking at safety requirements.

Uh this board of Alderman passed my board bill, board bill 44 and 2324 that talk about the requirements that are needed on uh surface parking lots from lighting and ballots, which I see is in the legislation that you guys talk about, security cameras and all that to make sure that these uh surface parking lots are safe.

So um, you know, I support it.

Um it sounds like there's no other use really that would go there privately besides a gas station.

So um, you know, this is I think a uh I know we wrestle with in the city of uh people feeling like we do have too many parking lots, and I understand that.

Um, but hopefully there could be uh future growth for the surface parking lot for something else.

I love the the access that you're providing the Harrisove from the bookstore for them to actually not have to walk all the way around and go all the way down Compton through the entrance to be you know coming out of Compton.

So I think this would be a great addition.

Also want to let members know in the drive, there is the letter of support from Pappies that talk about uh the lack of parking that they have with uh over having 35,000 patriots that comes to uh the the business on a regular and how this would be able to support more people coming to uh uh Pappies and extending those hours to be able to come.

So that letter of support is in the drive.

I want to make note of that.

Uh unless any other committee members have any questions.

I will uh allow the alder woman from the elevated 11th to come on up and close on out.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I love the way you say elevated 11th.

You know, from the mighty 14th to the elevated 11th, we love working with each other.

Yes, indeed.

So uh having uh provided all of uh the information uh about this particular bill, I would ask for your do pass recommendation and favorable uh support of this bill.

Thank you.

I'll make the motion that we pass Board Bill 98 out with the do pass recommendation.

Is there a second?

Second, Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Alder Woman Son Yay, Vice Chair Browning, President Alder Woman Velasquez.

Hi Alderman Devotee.

Hi Chair Aldrick.

I Alderwoman Son Ye.

We have one prison, three eyes.

With that, we have passed uh Board Bill 98 out with a do pass recommendation.

Congratulations, Alderman McKey.

Um I just wanted to say thank you all so much for your time and patience and listening uh this morning.

No problem with one board bill.

We only took an hour just to get through that one.

So uh very good questions and comments.

All right, with no other board bills for review, no resolution, committee discussion.

We already acknowledge there's no written testimony outside of the public support.

There is also another public support letter in the drive uh from the uh real estate company that we also have in front of us.

Um in the drive with that, I will um no announcements, any announcements?

None.

I would like to excuse the alderwoman from the seventh for necessary absence, and with that I'll take a motion to adjourn.

Second, all in favor, aye.

Oppose opposed, motion carries.