I'd like to call the library board meeting to order.

Roll call, please.

Bowie.

Coleman.

Here.

Johnson.

Kim?

Here.

Maker?

Here.

Yang.

Here.

Chair Jose.

Here.

Five present.

Two absent.

I believe two being excused.

The first item on the agenda is approval of minutes.

Minutes twenty-six-twel.

Library board agenda for three four twenty twenty-six.

Great.

Um, this is an approval over the library minutes from March.

Um I'll take a motion from Councilmember Coleman to approve.

Uh is there any discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.

All those opposed.

Five in favor, zero opposed.

The minutes have been adopted.

The second item on the agenda is up for discussion.

Resolution twenty-six-five one three, authorizing an extension to the memorandum of understanding between the Saint Paul Public Library and the Friends of the Saint Paul Public Library.

So um this item is pretty straightforward.

This is an extension to um for our relationship with the friends of the library who we think about this year.

Um, really are very appreciative of.

All those opposed.

Seven in favor, zero opposed.

Motion has been approved.

The next item on the agenda is staff report.

Staff report twenty-six dash fifty-two.

Library needs assessment.

Wonderful.

Um, so this is the the main presentation for today, so I'll turn it over to Director Hartman for our library needs assessment.

Good afternoon, Chair Joe's Library Board.

Um, thanks for the opportunity to present to you.

So um every year uh in city statute is the requirement for the library director to present um their needs assessment for the upcoming year to the library board.

So that's what I'm here to do today.

How we've um traditionally handled this as um kind of a state of the library.

So I'll share some 2025 um statistics and outputs.

We'll talk a little bit about our successes and challenges this year and 2026, and then I'll give you a little bit of a preview about um where some of our challenges lie for 2027, uh, way ahead of that budget process getting started.

So um I some of these um data points you've heard from me in other places, but I think it's really important and helpful to see them all in one slide.

We have about 23,000 visitors a week to the library.

Um in 2025, it was it was down about six percent.

It was a long time ago, but you may recall the digital security incident um from July and September.

And so that's what um we believe uh if you look at our numbers, uh they're sort of on on pace to continue, and then we saw fewer visitors in the six weeks that we did not have um the internet or uh public printing.

So um we are glad that we're through that and everything is back to normal on the other side.

But that was a big um big hit for our public-facing services in the library and for our staff as well.

We circulate about 55,000 materials every week.

And um, despite the digital security incident, that was only down just a little over one percent last year.

So our circulation numbers continue to go up.

Um, our electronic circulation, our e-books goes up faster than our physical Circ.

Um, but our physical circulation still makes up over 60% of our total circulation.

So, as you know, as we've discussed before, in this space, it's more expensive for us to buy ebooks, but it's also an increasing demand.

We know that um lots of folks are seeking e-resources for accessibility, convenience, um, and lots of other reasons as well.

Um, I want to make sure that as we think about uh library and what we know it to be, this this group understands, uh, but not everybody always does that the meeting rooms in our libraries are um one of the most valuable services that we offer to the library.

So we continue to see that go up in the years post-pandemic, and why you see us continuing to invest in um other ways of making study rooms and meeting rooms available as we renovate our libraries.

Um our programs and the attendance in our programs uh did go down in 2024.

Some of that is related to staffing levels in the library, others related to uh focusing our attention on not as many, not so much like more programs, um, but focused or more intentional programs of the ones that we have.

Um additionally, we had over 3,000 computer sessions and 1,800 Wi-Fi sessions per week.

Our Wi-Fi um sessions were down slightly.

Um we believe that's due to the digital security incident, but in general, we're seeing Wi-Fi usage increase, and we're seeing um computer use um stay stable or go down a little bit.

So we saw that go down significantly in 2025 uh due to computers not being available.

And um Director Hartman, do you think that you know I know this is 2025 comparing to 2024?

Um, and in this past year, and this upcoming year, you know, we've had the the roundal library transition to Halley Q Brown, but it seems like we've seen similar um activity at Halle Q Brown, but then we're also gonna be opening the Hamlin Midway Library.

So do you do you anticipate seeing these outputs like increasing, even though it sounded like we're looking at a some of the numbers we're originally down, or what do you think might happen?

Yeah, Chair Joe's thanks for that question.

So um our usage at Halley Q Brown is good, but it's also less than it was at the Rondo Community Library, and we can expect that given its location and given the size of the space.

What's higher at our Halley Q Brown location is program attendance, which is really really interesting.

So we have more programs and more people attending those programs than we did uh at our permanent location.

Um we will definitely see an increase in visitors and circulation when we reopen Hamlin.

You can generally expect that when you build a new library or you have a significant renovation, uh the standard across the country is about a 30% increase in traffic and circulation.

My guess would be that we'll be a little higher than that for Hamlin.

But so I would expect that visitors is gonna keep going up, but I I think the decrease in visitors for Rondo and the increase in Hamlin might balance each other out.

And circulation continues to go up a little bit each year.

And we also have Hayden Heights as well.

And Hayden Heights closed, yeah.

Now, generally Hamlin, we would expect more visitors and more uh circulation at our Hamlin library than our Hayden.

But um we're you know, we'll have only a few months probably of Hamlin being open.

That's a great question.

Okay.

Um excuse me, Councilman Cole.

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks, Director.

Um, that makes total sense to me that when we had no internet, people did not come to the library as frequently.

Did we see that that rebounded fairly quickly after the digital security incident was resolving, or did that impact our numbers for was there a long tail from that?

Chair Joe's council member.

Um people were very happy with the computers and the printers turned back on.

So yeah, we would we saw very um word spread very quickly that those services were again available and it came back pretty pretty nicely.

Um Council President Acre.

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Um Director, curious, you mentioned the 40 programs per week, that the attendance being down 25% over 2024.

Um, and you talked about that as a staffing issue, so it sounded like it was that we were offering fewer programs, not necessarily that attendance per program was lower.

Do we also track attendance at the programs we do offer and over time to see what's of interest to people and to determine programs for the future?

Yeah, Chair Joe's council member, thank you for that question.

That's correct.

So we have an internal anytime we offer a program, we have a it's on our website, and then we have a back door where we put in the attendance, and so staff who are the program leads are responsible for adding that each time.

We also um have evaluations for a lot of our programs that we give to participants who are participating.

If you were at Reed Brave, you would have seen some of those to help us identify um uh did we meet our goals, right?

So if we had identified an outcome in advance for our goal, and then branch managers and branch teams are expected to do that too, right?

To look at everything that we've offered and make changes to either um I don't want to say have more people at it because sometimes a program is only designed for five people, so then if you have five people, you've met your goal.

But if you have a capacity of you were hoping for 30 and you only got two, then we're gonna need to like keep tweaking it or try something new in order to make the best use of all of our time.

And as a follow-up, I'm chair, do you have that data as to what was happening with program attendance for the programs that were being offered in 2025 in terms of compared to 2024?

Oh uh, Chair Joe's council member, that's a really good question.

Yeah, probably, and I can probably get it to you.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Um, keep going.

Okay.

So 2025, I know we've talked to you already a few times this year, but I'm gonna take this opportunity to highlight some lens from 2025, and yet this year, um, since we are already in April, um we've had two years of standing room only uh at our Reed Brave Talk Brave event last year at our Rondo Library and this year at our Erlington Library with 150 people or more in attendance, and additionally, the part that's not as public but just as important is this year the over 1,000 um students in St.

Paul that our author Robizona at Ropezona, Romina Garber.

Um, that's like a mess up, brought her book, Lobizona, to students as well.

So um really really proud of that.

Our team worked really hard on that.

Um, last year we made uh transforming libraries improvements to the meeting rooms at Merriam and Rice Street.

Uh, as everyone knows, we're opening Hamlin Midway Library later this year, and just close our Hayden Heights library last week for temporarily till we are reopening in 2027, and then we'll have our Rondo library open by the end of this year.

Um, our library safety work that I've presented at a number of times, and certainly will do so again.

Um, I couldn't be more um proud of the work of our library safety team and the rest of the library staff who have embraced them, who have um learned new things, who have worked together with them as co as colleagues and our safety manager Alex Corey.

And that's due to the hard work of that team and the staff that surrounds them, as well as all the folks that are leading this work as I think about all the cool things I've had an opportunity to do in my library career.

This is one of the ones that I'm the most proud of.

I've had two special edition library cards during my tenure last year.

We launched a commemorative card to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Southeast Asian immigration to Minnesota.

And one of the reasons we do that, it's we want people to have new library cards, and it's a great opportunity to work with a local artist.

But we also want to increase the number of people that have and use a library card.

And so in 2025, we saw a 24% increase in the number of St.

Paul residents who have and use a library card, and that's something we'll be continuing to increase.

I think that's a metric that is important to us.

We're gonna continue to support our libraries, and also we want folks to opt in to use them.

So we'll continue to more to come later this year about what our next special edition library card might be.

So yeah, you can wait for that with excitement, but uh, but I'm not saying anything more.

Um I'm also really proud of a lot of the internal work that we've done uh that uh we don't get as much of an opportunity to be on the paper for to even present to this group, and and one of those is uh that we started our internal library labor management committee last week, uh last year uh that's monthly meetings with one to two members of each of the five bargaining units that's in the library.

I'm proud of how that team is working together.

We certainly don't always agree, but we bring um questions and we bring requests to each other and we work through them together.

Much more work to go there.

Talk about staffing a lot.

We talk about scheduling, we talk about safety, staff well-being, and other topics that are brought to the table.

Um thanks, madam chair.

I really appreciate hearing about these uh selected wins and appreciate that you're including early 2026 too, because it's it feels very up to the minute.

Um, I'm I'm wondering if in the future this is just a formatting thing rather than a content thing, but if we could see sort of maybe charts showing some of these changes over time for the the metrics.

So, for example, I was the 24% increase in number of residents who haven't used a library card seems really significant, and it immediately made me wonder what have been the increases in past years and what are the actual numbers that we're talking about, so that we can better understand when there's truly an outlier year and maybe dig into that a little bit more as a body.

Um, so if you're able in the future to maybe provide a little bit more of that kind of chart time horizon, that that would be really helpful.

Uh Chair Jo, uh councilmember, thank you for that.

This is a new metric.

2025 is the first time that we've gathered that.

Uh, but I I hear your comment.

I think um the other thing for us to keep working through as a group is I do bring a lot of that data to my budget presentation in September.

So I would be looking for direction from this group.

Do you want it in both places or one or the other?

And it it's easy to do both if that's helpful.

Sure.

Sure.

Um Councilmember Johnson.

Thank you, uh Chair Joseph.

I was gonna also let you finish, but I uh don't want to lose that thought on the previous slide.

I think it just would be helpful as well, like during budget season.

I don't, you know, I don't mind if I have a preference if it has to be like the outputs or the budget cycle piece, but it's just helpful to know as well by ward the numbers and just what the numbers look like.

So the overview was overall, but I think it would be helpful to know like the library specifically, just in case we are seeing a difference depending on or like an outlier situation to the numbers because of the transforming libraries projects that are happening in those areas, or because of a you know, isolated incident that's relative to just one library.

It just might be easier to see.

Well too.

Yeah, all right.

Okay.

Also, there were challenges.

Um, I mentioned the digital security incident.

Um, I think it's important to keep talking about that.

Um, we have recovered from that, uh, but the the library sits in a very unique position in the city uh about how public-facing our technology is.

So our uh no internet, no Wi-Fi, no printing, no telephones at most location.

Our staff didn't have access to email.

Um, our and our staff were impacted too.

And I know you heard about some of that during that manual circulation.

We weren't doing any check-ins or on inability to fulfill holds or internet or wifi for staff.

So um, I'm really proud of uh how my team came together and the creativity that they brought.

Um, I think I'm quite sure I've told you before that uh we started sending uh our all staff emails by fax because that was the only thing that was working, and it was so popular, we're gonna have to do it again, even with the computers working.

So I am so proud of all of our team, and I'm so proud of my colleagues in the city about how we came together to work through each of those steps and the creativity that my team had to bring and the partnership with OTC.

And most of that work fell on our library technology manager, Lisa Motchke, and our marketing and communication staff in kind of coordinating what that communication would be out to the out to the public but to our staff as well.

I just uh also want to point out I think maybe the libraries are one of the only places you can still send a pegs.

Um I'm glad that I mean I think people still value that very much, but it seemed like it was very critical uh in some of these situations.

So I'm glad that we still have that service and tool at the library.

Chair Joseph, thanks for recognizing that.

And people do laugh, and also like if you think about it though, like so much is online that when you actually have something printed out and you and we had our managers read it to staff at the Huddle, that's a totally different experience, right?

So one of my colleagues is at the public library association conference today, which is meeting in Minneapolis, and she just texted me to say that she was at a presentation by the Calgary Public Library, Calgary Canada, and they do really great work.

It's one of those like, oh Calgary, why are they always like they're just they're well resourced, they do really great work.

But she said she was going to representation, and one of their learnings was to um do more internal communication by analog means instead of digital.

And so I was like, we also learned that.

So we'll keep experimenting with that as our capacity uh permits.

Um I don't have to tell you about the implication uh the impact uh for my team and our patrons and our whole community on Operation Metro Surge.

Um we saw, but specifically we just have fewer library, fewer residents using library spaces in January and February than we did in 2024.

We are seeing those pick back up now in March.

Um but um there's a lot of there's a lot of impacts for our whole community, and as a leader of a workforce, I can see it now too, like how holding that tension and gripping for January and February is now coming out in a variety of ways in the workplace.

Um our staffing remains a challenge.

Um the city's the city had a hiring freeze in quarter three and quarter four of last year and quarter one of 2026.

That's clearing, um, but we're catching up on our staffing.

So we will always hear that from me that it's a balancing act that I think uh we do pretty well.

We certainly don't do perfectly, but within the resources that we have and the size of our workforce, um, we're prioritizing making sure that we're meeting minimum staffing guide staffing guidance and opening the doors to our public.

And then uh it's spring, and so when it's spring, uh that can bring more challenges to our public safety, uh, to public safety in our library.

We're handling those well.

But I have the fortune to be in this role for a number of years now, and so I know that it's spring, and it will not be like this uh forever.

But there's a couple hot spots in the city that we're working that we're working closely with SPPD, ONS, Metro Transit.

Um, when we see kind of a change in the number of incidents or the particular behaviors at a location, uh, we have the tools at our disposal to then um deploy a safety specialist in a different way and to follow up with our partners so that they can help us problem solve.

Priorities this year, again, I've mentioned most of them.

Our Hamlet Midway Library will reopen.

I just threw it last week.

Um, it's gonna be great.

Hayden Heights Library is under construction.

This one feels really good as well.

Our Rondo community library is making good progress, will reopen by the end of the year.

Um, we will continue to manage staffing within our reduced budget environment.

This year, in our budget, as you recall, we have a reduced substitute staffing budget and an increased vacancy rate.

So we have few fewer tools to use uh to cover staffing, but so far we're doing okay, but that's something that I'm very mindful of and watching closely.

Our library safety strategy that I've talked about many times here is now moving into our restorative practices phase.

So the parks and the libraries uh have uh a grant and to do this for the public and for staff as well.

So we're really excited.

This is the uh kind of last phase to implement uh within our library safety strategy, and um one we're really looking forward to learning more about and and using with our community members.

Uh last year we had a team put together, do a lot of internal work with our staff to identify how we can better support staff well-being at work.

Uh, they did a lot, they had a lot of conversations and focus groups and surveys and brought forward towards the end of the year some recommendations to myself and the rest of my team, and now we're moving uh forward into that implementation.

Um, really proud of this work.

Staff well-being is something, as you know, very important to all departments in the city, especially public facing ones.

So I'm really proud of our staff uh coming together to put forward some recommendations and proud of how um we're gonna keep trying new things, right?

Um, based on that feedback from staff.

Uh we uh piloted an anti-biased training for all of our staff last year, and we'll move that into full implementation this year.

That was created by our um by Carl Gessner, who's our coordinator for equity um inclusion and anti-racism.

So um that wasn't uh a training that we were able to find anywhere that met our needs, so we combined a whole bunch of different things and created it.

So that'll be a required training.

We continue to make the safety infrastructure investments that you've added to the budget in the last few years.

Some of those have been somewhat delayed given uh, for example, the vapor monitors require a pretty intensive partnership with the Office of Technology and Communication, so needed to take a pause for a couple of months last year, but now we have a plan that we're moving forward with.

And as always, um I could never stop my team from internal process improvements uh if I if I tried, and I don't want to try because there's um there's always so much needed there, both in the library and the city as well.

So we'll continue to focus on that work in 2026.

And now uh 2027 and beyond.

So as we think as the budget process uh kicks off, gets underway, um, it's really important to me that you all understand that our library safety strategy that was previous was funded by ARPA funds.

So we as we come to the end of those funding.

I um I have a challenge.

I have a challenge to that I need your help with to uh resource the continuation of those positions uh through a sustainable funding source or a variety of sustainable funding sources.

Um that lies as I just mentioned, our library safety strategy has been tremendously successful, and also it was a pilot with ARPA fund.

So now that the pilot is completing, now the question is how do we sustain it?

So I want to be really clear, and I've been clear with my staff too.

Um, our library safety specialists have made a tremendous difference in our library, and I don't feel like I'm in a position to be able to run our libraries without those positions in place.

So as you can you can see the amount here, that's about $650,000 annually.

It's no small gap, and I realize that.

Um, public services staffing continues, uh it just continues to be more expensive to operate libraries in all the ways that we've talked about here and other ways too.

So we're using our existing FTE to open Hamlin Midway, and we'll use our existing FTE to do the same with Hayden Heights, but we will at minimum need more staffing to open Riverview Library when we get to that point, right?

So we did not have in our budget a request for additional FTE for Hamlin.

You won't see one for Hayden.

Um, but when all three of those projects are done, uh I will have a I will have a gap of staff.

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Um that is, if you can say a little bit more about that.

Same number of libraries, why do we need more staff?

And then I know you're not saying this, but I just want to make sure that you're not saying that Riverview Library last to get redone in this tranche would potentially not open due to a staffing concern when it's ready to open.

Um Chair Jost uh council member.

So um it continues to be more expensive to operate libraries, and there's a couple of ways that shows up in staffing.

It shows up in the safety specialists, right?

So we're moving one of our safety specialists to Hamlin.

That isn't a role that we had before.

It also continues to be um we it's very important to us that we honor our minimum staffing arrangements, and in the past, five or uh even six years ago, the library used to get away with some stuff.

We used to be able to uh have two staff here when actually the minimum really for safety reasons should be three or four.

So some is that some of that is through conversations with the union.

We really want to make sure that we're staffing a building appropriately so that it can be safe, but also so that people can get the um have their questions answered as well.

And to your question about Riverview, no, I am not saying that.

I'm just saying that we are gonna continue to experience staffing crunches as we open up these other libraries, and you're absolutely right.

We did not build gigantic libraries specifically because uh we know that we have to staff them with the staff we have, but the reality of um all the other factors in public services over the last three or four years means we're gonna be really really tight.

Um councilmember Johnson.

Um thank you for that transparency, and I think just the honesty surrounding what is necessary moving forward.

I think one of the things that has been really um I will just share every budget cycle when I see a cut to the library's budget, I'm like a little disappointed every time.

And I think with this particular 2027 and beyond needs assessment, I hope to see that that is kind of incorporated in what is proposed to this body, and also just like what ultimately is adopted.

Um I I will share that in looking at the $650,000 number and a lot of the resources that we have.

Um it does appear that at times at the end of the year there is unutilized funds and things that we could potentially could pull from.

And so I hope that in your conversations just with not only with the administration, but even in the back end with our Office of Financial Services, there's some conversation about what we you know what the cost of really doing business is like as we prepare for the budget season.

This seems like a really tangible number and something that could be um, especially if needed, addressed for the safety of and the strategy and addressing the staffing needs.

And so, you know, I see this as an opportunity where you know, just initial feedback that number to me is not uh, and when we have other opportunities in other places where we are moving resources and we are kind of planning ahead, it's a lot easier to place in what is proposed than to try to scramble forward on the back end.

And so I hope that there's just some continued planning ahead for what we see, and I'll look to you know, your leadership director and kind of what the conversations are gonna be like with staff on just what it should be like proactively, and that's more so just my brain, you know, basically doesn't think budget but always thinks budget until budget season.

But looking into it, it's just like $650,000 accommodated at the beginning, maybe found in resources that were underutilized in 2026 or 2025.

Um is always an easier conversation to have than how do we find it at the end of the year?

Thank you, Councilmember Johnson.

Councilmember Kim.

Um I'm sorry if you said this, but what additional staffing at a minimum will you need?

Uh Chair Jost, uh Councilmember Kim, are you talking about like when we reopen Riverview?

Sorry, I'm looking at Sarah's finding the bullet point, yeah.

For Riverview, yeah, we don't know yet.

So it'll be really important to open Hamlin Midway with the staff that we've allocated and see how that goes.

How many allocated staff did you transfer from Riverview to Hamille?

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

How many allocated staff are you moving from Riverview to Hamlin Midway?

We're not moving anybody from Riverview to Hamlin Midway.

It's from Hayden Heights.

Oh, from Hayden Heights, sorry.

Yeah, I don't have a number in front of me, but I can get it for you.

I'm wine.

So I'm just like hearing things.

I'm so sorry.

The the crux of my question is like, you know, like recognizing it's more expensive, we want staffing, right?

Like, is there a number that's kind of like bumbling around in there to be like if we're moving X amount of staff and then what it looks like to like fully staff Riverview to the point that you want?

Is there like a minimum and maximum number you're sort of thinking about, but more so for us to kind of hear what that cost is?

Because I can kind of see the library safety strategy you're wanting to sort of sustain funding at 650 annually, right?

To sustain those staff.

What does that look like for then just like across like what is what is that in terms of numbers of staff?

Uh best guess.

I won't hold you too much.

No, no, no, council member.

I I think yes, I understand.

And we were talking about like four people.

Okay.

Right.

So just like and again, not in this budget cycle, but that's that's kind of the number that we're talking about.

We're not about 20 or 15, like four.

Okay, that sounds good.

I really appreciate that.

Um, and the other question that I had was not related.

You talked about earlier um around training, anti-biased training for staff.

At one point, we also talked about like potentially trauma training for management as well.

So, like, if I mean, like part of the reason why we have public safety staff and trying to embed them is because of some of the things that our frontline staff workers come into contact with.

And so we do a lot of training for frontline staff to be trauma-informed in the way that we're approaching and speaking and like inter-engaging.

Can you speak a little bit about any additional staff than like maybe management has then to like receive and support a staff member that like has been traumatized at work?

Yeah, councilmember, thanks for that question.

Um I I do also recall that we had that feedback that managers um maybe weren't always doing that in the way that staff would like.

So I just want to be clear that when I talk about frontline staff, I'm also talking about managers, right?

So managers and frontline staff, uh, maybe um like a library associate or an ASV member are are all receiving the same training uh initially, and then we're our management team meets every month, and so we're additionally providing other supports.

What I would say about trauma's um trauma-informed training is that we've baked that in to every single aspect of safety specialists, right?

Just last and that's continued support, um, not even just it relates to safety, but continued support and training for our managers, right?

About how to continue to work with their staff effectively.

So I feel pretty good about what we're delivering.

As you well know, not every staff member likes their manager, right?

And so what that's part of why we have the monthly labor management committee to try to get to the bottom of specifically, right?

If you could help me understand where was this happening so that we can find so that we can provide that support to managers, but I I welcome for future conversations about where that uh may not be everything that we could be doing.

No, I really appreciate hearing like that.

It is in baked into the training, it's not an additional one, but one that is considered across the board.

So I appreciate hearing that.

Um so director Herman, also I just want to make sure I'm understanding because it says that we're gonna use existing FTE to reopen Hamlet Midway, and we'll do the same with Hayden Heights.

Does that mean that over the last I guess two years, like since 2024, um, with the closure of Hamlin with Hamiltonway being closed, um, and some of these libraries opening and closing that we've had the same number of staff basically.

Okay.

Yep.

So those staff were redeployed to other locations when Hamlin Midway was closed.

We slightly expanded our Miriam Park library hours because we were able to with the staff, and so we'll reduce back to our regular Miriam Park library hours, as some of those staff will go back or um go for the first time to the Hamlin Midway library.

So our FTE has remained the same.

Um, but uh, but it's still it's still a pinch, it's still hard.

Okay, council president across or council member Bowie.

Oh, thank you, Chair Joe.

Thank you so much, Director Hartmann, for um this uh presentation.

I was just going to just um offer some comments, particularly some thoughts, particularly around the library safety um staff.

So I think uh it's such a central part of our libraries and really our city when I think about just the impact that they make.

Um they also come from um our our community when I had a chance to I believe it was the public safety um town hall conversation we had at Rondo Library, getting a chance to be um um introduced to each of them and hearing their story, and many of them taking great pride with being from St.

Paul from the community and see this as an opportunity for them to give back.

Um I'm just really well not really curious, but I guess I would give some like thought to the conversation around what sustainable funding looks like, not solely just for like the library department, but really like a cross-departmental safety strategy.

I would really like to hear um from the Office of Neighborhood Safety around how they see our safety staff for the library integrated into the holistic picture around when we think about community safety um employees.

Um I I'm aware that um um ONS, they also have their safety staff.

Um, they've you know had many re iterations of of safety strategists, whether it was community ambassadors or now I believe we have our own in-house um safety um staff are contracting with uh um some uh community violence intervention uh uh uh organizations, like for example, Boots on the ground, who I know was contracted specifically at uh at Rondo Library.

So um when we're thinking about funding, what I really would like to see um, you know, hopefully you don't have to play a jigsaw puzzle game of trying to get funding from different departments.

But what I would like to see, particularly is that this isn't just solely on the shoulders of the library department, right, to sustain this uh the safety staff, but we really see an integrated approach from um our police, fire in ONS and our parks and rec, including um our um fearless library frontline staff to come up with a a funding source in a program so we can sustain um those staff and you know wishful thinking, right?

We go into the future and we might have figured out the fin and all problem, and we don't have some of those um behaviors um at our library, like what are some other uses, you know, um, in terms of community safety that we can apply to our library spaces.

Thank you, Councilmember, Council President Acre.

Thanks, Madam Chair.

I really appreciate this conversation and um wanted to agree with a couple of things colleagues have said, and I appreciate um member Johnson's um point that uh it's it is really helpful to have these conversations in advance of the budget and in particular to see things built into the base um when it comes to us.

I know that's not wholly within your control director, but um to all those who might be listening to us right now, it's helpful to see things in the base.

And I would also add to that the circulation um keeping the purchasing power consistent with what it has been in previous years.

We passed that resolution as library board a long time ago, and we have consistently not seen that be in the base, so then we've had to scramble to find those dollars year over year.

I would really like to see um that resolution have a little bit more weight in the budget that ends up being proposed and hopefully proposed by the mayor.

Um, and then I do I am grateful for the honest conversation about the basic cost of doing business, as others have said.

I have heard from frontline staff that we have not been, they haven't felt fully staffed, and so hearing that at times we have not been meeting minimum staffing or have been.

No, we have or we always meet minimum staffing, okay.

But but minimum staffing is not all that the desired staffing, so yeah, so there's a difference between a safe safe minimum and then a regular staffing level.

Sorry to interrupt you.

I just want to be clear.

That's important qualification because I thought I heard something different about that.

Okay, so that we have not been meeting desired staffing.

Um, and I think it's important to understand what that desired staffing is, sort of to the questions that were being asked um across the system.

And then I also want to know, sort of as member Bowie was just talking about the the integration of also our library safety specialists in the staffing model, because I think it's um fair to say that FTEs haven't gone up over time.

But if we have added a whole bunch of safety specialists, those are also um those are people who are helping, they may not be considered traditional FTEs, and assumably they'd be doing some of the things that before were falling solely on our public services staffing members.

So as we're asking for those folks to become long-term funded by a city source, and also potentially for staffing to increase, I just think it's important to see total numbers needed, how the library safety specialists are playing in, as well as maybe how other um department staff, ONS staff play in.

Great.

Any other questions before we keep it?

Um can I can I respond?

Yeah, um council president.

Um thank you for that comment.

And I would um you will.

It's budget season, so you will hear from my staff about or if you already haven't about staffing, and I would really really welcome an opportunity to either be in those conversations or provide additional context.

Staffing is a challenge, unquestionably.

It is a challenge for every library system in this country.

And uh, I believe we're doing the best we can with the resources that are available to us.

Um, and uh we we don't always agree on that, right?

I mean, that that entirely makes sense.

Um, but I hope that we can continue to have productive conversations.

Um, because I think sometimes the limitations of our budget are not always understood by others, as of course they shouldn't be.

That's my job, right?

Um, so just I'm just sort of flagging that we have the FT that we have to your point, um, Chair Jost, we have the same FTE that we had, right?

And so when we move folks to open up Hamlin, we have the same FTE that we had, and also it doesn't feel great, right?

If you had uh five staff and now you're gonna have four, right?

Because we need to open up the Hamlin Midway Library.

So there's a lot of nuance here that I know we all see in really different ways.

So I welcome continuing to be in conversation with you individually or in any way that's appropriate.

Um thank you, Director Hartman.

Yeah, I think I would I would also be interested in in understanding, I understand with the same number of FT we have and what is I mean, from your perspective, you don't have to answer this now, but your perspective and staff's perspective.

What is the desired number?

Because if we're talking about like you know, maybe one or two more staff members would really help fill in this gap for this, you know, just any stress that our staff is feeling and make things easier for everyone.

That's that feels very reasonable for me, but it's just helpful to know.

So when we are making decisions and um budget chair Johnson and all of us are working through this, you know, if you get this many FT, this is kind of the you know, level of service you get, you get this many.

This is these are the differences.

really help fill in this gap for this you know just any stress that our staff is feeling and make things easier for everyone that's that feels very reasonable for me but it's just helpful to know so when we are making decisions and um budget chair john and all of us are working through this you know if you get this many of T this is kind of the you know level of service you get you get this many this is these are the differences so we just have kind of different options to look at and I also agree that um the safety specialists is very critical in making sure those do have sustainable funding whether it's through the library or through some other citywide you know safety uh just like a not even a program but there's so many departments that provide safety that also have a lot more funding than the library are there opportunities where you know we could the department our library department could receive any kind of support or help in that funding because this is safety that impacts everyone um and everyone benefits from it and so as much as we can talk about those things early on and understand them and and and hopefully get them into the mayor's proposed budget that's gonna be um ideal uh for for all of us in this process chair joe so thanks for saying that um I would also encourage um you all to ask constituents what they think the additional staffing is that we need I I have I have continued to ask that and have not heard like a number and so I would really benefit from a number uh so that uh we can be a more productive conversation.

Absolutely um chair or Council Member Booing and then Councilmember Johnson.

Thank you, Chair Joyce.

Um I really appreciate how you just wrapped wrapped all that up and then I had another question.

But it was related to um what you're um speaking to particularly around the safety specialist I just have a quick question um because this came up I believe early on like two years ago when we were talking about just um some of the labor union contracts and how that has impacts um on you know um driving or increasing some of the costs when it comes to like salaries right and we want to make sure like we're we have competitive salaries and we you know are a really strong pro um labor um um um council here in St.

Paul but I'm just curious for regarding the safety specialists are they um asking workers as well and in perfect and then also part of the budget conversations I mean I don't know where asked me is that in terms of like contract negotiations but it would be helpful um as we're having the budget conversations we know like what are some of the changes and what are the budgetary implications because I think that kind of answers a lot of our questions when we talk about just the cost of doing business and wanting to make sure our wages are competitive in St.

Paul.

Council member thank you the part I can answer is that yes our library safety specialists are part of Ask Me Technical that was our full time um benefited union represented roles uh as to the status of ASME contract I differate human resources about where that is and what budget implications it has.

Thank you.

Councilmember Johnson Yeah I feel like a lot a couple of the questions you know in our statements too it's it's it's also because we are talking to our constituents while talking to you and I think just kind of coming into the piece of just what we're sharing I think there's a lot of right we we know that in talking to you about the budget conversations that it's not fully in your ability but we also know that to the millions of viewers that are watching at home um that continue to utilize our libraries and that we hear from and that we can see right that the 2300 visits that are received per week of of residents all across the city um you know you have staff stood in front of us and uh staff have stood in front of us with the library specialist numbers and I still remember those from last year um right it's an investment that seems to be working and I I think that that's something to to be shared I I would hate to um you know in the staffing metrics and some of the pieces especially around just numbers that we're trying to continue to maintain and that we are seeing some areas of increase um you know and sustainability over uh the last few years including post-COVID time right there's been a lot of positive pieces and nuggets that have come from these consecutive presentations and I just so I just want to say that with full acknowledgement that like we are talking to you today but I think that the clear intent at least from my comments are they go and extend beyond you of just my overall support for this vision and because I you know and I think I'll be having the same conversations with the parks because what I personally right hate to see is my east side libraries and my east side rec centers receiving reductions and our staffing really and I'm sure that brings true for others um and so towards the end of the year where we do have that conversation about what our values are and in the last two years um this council has always echoed their values of supporting the efforts of the libraries and so I just you know want to continue to see that and I think when we're asking for like that number it's not because we have a at least it's not because I have a specific number in mind it's more so where I'm just like what does it look like to what does it look like for our departments and for our city staff to um kind of reach for what it looks like to be not in a area of scarcity.

to see that and I think when we're asking for like that number it's not because we have a at least it's not because I have a specific number in mind it's more so where I'm just like what does it look like to what does it look like for our departments and for our city staff to um kind of reach for what it looks like to be not in a area of scarcity like what does it look like to fund us not in the space where we feel like we're you know really truly um going year to year kind of by our bootstraps a little bit and so I think that's just kind of what my intent is and where I am coming from when it comes to just our needs and our 2027 vision is you know how do we kind of we pull in to the opportunity that we have I think with the not only a new administration but I think just a full council um you know and also just uh a piece where I think you have council members who maybe access the libraries get the libraries in a different way and um and also just continue to have this time where we're multiple years post COVID but at a really pivotal point in our in our history for sure as a city for so many different things that I would hate for libraries to get lost in the conversation because they aren't asking for the stars.

And so that's just more so where I'm like we're we're doing a lot of innovative things over the last few years as a body and um I just don't want to lose that in the library discussion.

So that's where my questions are coming from and more so of just like not necessarily expecting you to fix everything but definitely from a lens of where I'm like what does it look like for our libraries to operate not out of scarcity but out of what is needed.

Thanks Council Member Council First President Young.

Thank you Chair Joel's I want to say thank you Dr.

Hartman for um your needs assessment presentation here to me it's been just very um grounding and it's doing a lot of level setting for me in a sense where um I'm doing a lot of reflections on on the things that I've I've heard you share over the many years here which has been really consistent and I think that like for me there's a lot of similarities between what you're sharing about like the challenges and sustainable funding and what I'm hearing from other departments but to me like what's what is really unique about our library department um library department overall is that I think you all are in a a very different position where you know when uh when we are in a crisis like the pandemic for example and then also Operation Metro surge I mean we're gonna see less people coming to our libraries and it's gonna mean more cost savings for you all you're gonna be spending less as a department um and I and um you all have been very resilient and we're very lucky that we have the friends too I don't know where we would be um as a city really in in terms of like the state of our libraries if we didn't have that partnership from them and so like you know what I'm thinking a lot about is that I I believe in the in the next few years here or I hope this year um with the our we as a council as a board we're we're gonna have to make very different decisions when it comes to more so like the systemic like systemic um the system I would say that that we are currently like working in I I think like right now I'm thinking a lot about the question that the friends they asked us maybe a few a couple of years back when it came to our one percent sales tax how come library expenses aren't a part of it even though we know how important our libraries are to our communities and um and our library fund balance like every single year when we get to our budget season we're constantly asking like how can we tap into that knowing that most of the savings oh a lot of savings for our city does come from our libraries um and and at the same time overspending happens in a lot of other departments but our libraries continue to get the shorter end of the stick and so these are you know the top two things that are are um coming to mind to me right now and I just really want to share that to to everybody here because like what I said earlier I believe that we're gonna like if we want to see major change in this it means that it's gonna require for us to make major changes in our decision making too and I personally feel very ready for that um and and wanted to to share that because we're gonna really have to strategize as um as a board to be able to make that happen.

Thank you Council vice president um any other questions I think this is this the last this is the last slide um and I know we're we want to end and and you all have um completed my slide for me um so thank you and thank you uh truly really for for your partnership um I know uh what your support for libraries means and and I'm I'm ready to partner with you in in any way that I can but um funding gaps um council president Naker mentioned library materials library technology right um I just got a quote back that our um uh new uh hardware is increased by 20% right so that the library relies on that technology and the public facing technology in a way that no other city department does so um I you know I I entirely believe that that we can get to a place where we're not in a scarcity mindset um but I am but I'm also aware of the budget challenges ahead of us right um so I think it's it's important to have these conversations about um what the libraries mean to us about the locations and the hours and the services and the staffing um because it it won't continue to always feel sustainable and so I think that's um thank you for understanding that um that that um that's true for libraries um across the country it's true for libraries across the state I was just at a meeting of regional library directors uh yesterday um and every single one said there's nothing more to cut except for staff and I and I don't say that uh to scare anyone but just to really be like just really be real right like if um if our budget continues to go down have anything left right to offer up and and counsel

And so I think that's uh thank you for understanding that.

Um that that um that's true for libraries um across the country, it's true for libraries across the state.

I was just at a meeting of regional library directors uh yesterday.

Um, and every single one said there's nothing more to cut except for staff.

And I and I don't say that uh to scare anyone, but just to really be like just really be real, right?

Like if um if our budget continues to go down, I don't have anything left, right, to offer up.

And Councilmember Johnson, I I so appreciate your your perspective of like, let's see more of that, like in the base.

Um, and also I'm limited by the tools that are at my disposal.

So I know you I know you know that.

I don't, of course, I don't want to cut library hours.

Never want to do that, and also uh don't have a lot of flex in my budget to put anything else on the table when a cut is being asked of me.

Thanks for understanding that.

Absolutely.

Um that's it.

All right.

Well, um, I guess we'll end there for today.

I I do want to share a couple of things.

Um Director Hartman mentioned the Reed Brave event, which was I think the day after our last library board meeting, and um, and I was able to attend, there were some other council staff there too, uh, from lots of our ward offices.

It was a fantastic event.

There was a whole dinner, which I don't think they'd had before.

We were just talking about the desserts earlier that were really fantastic.

Um it's such a great event, and it was featured in people magazine.

I think now you were uh saying that it was featured in it's going to be featured in Minnesota Women's Press, is that correct?

Yeah.

So uh just again, such a wonderful program that uh that the library puts on every year and with the friends, and so uh just wanted to highlight that.

And then also I got to tour the Hamlin Midway Library last week, which is under construction.

It looks absolutely incredible if you've walked into the old Hamlin Midway library.

It's really hard to recognize it, but uh very, very excited about that project and being able to open that library this year.

So if you haven't checked it out yet, I'm sure Director Hartman would love to take you there.

Yeah, we'll have more announcements about Hamlin Midway in the next few weeks, so yeah, we'll let you know.

Great.

Um, so uh with that, um uh we are adjourned.