Now we've had some debate about whether a roll call is required, but we're still gonna do it in the spirit of formality because it's our first budget committee.

So go ahead.

Here.

Councilmember Bowie.

Here.

Councilmember Coleman?

Here.

Councilmember Kim.

Councilmember Joe's?

Here.

Council Council President Maker?

Here.

Right.

Six present and one expected shortly being Councilmember Kim.

I'm here too.

Oh sorry.

See, this is why we should not do roll calls.

This is exactly why we should roll call.

Chair Johnson.

Here.

So one just really want to say I am very excited to have this be the first uh budget committee that I have the privilege to chair along with my vice chair.

I'm super excited about this year and the year ahead.

I um also really appreciate the time that the Office of Financial Services staff and team have taken to actually be able to present today, and really just want to acknowledge that you guys are maneuvering a bunch of different things right now, and so just want to say thank you for being here in person and then also for um all of the work that had to go on the back end uh for this presentation.

It'll match the HRA presentation later on this afternoon.

But um, Director Logson, I I just want to say thank you and welcome.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much, Chair Johnson and Council members for having me today.

Really appreciate it.

Um and Laura Logston, I'm Deputy Director of OFS.

Um before I jump into the presentation, I want to welcome Joe Harney, who's our new um OFS director.

Um, I believe he'll be in front of council this afternoon to be sworn in, so you'll see him again soon.

Um, but welcome Joe.

I'm gonna say, should we call him up now and be like, hey, come in and then okay.

I won't stick your thunder from it, but you know, um, I might call you up afterwards to say a few words.

I'll prefer all questions to the OFS director.

Um so great.

I will I will jump in.

Are you seeing the PowerPoint?

We are.

Okay, perfect.

Um, so today I'll be presenting information that the council budget committee requested recently regarding the city special fund FTEs and the general fund budget to actuals for quarter one of 2026.

I want to thank the OFS budget team and the accounting team and our department partners, um, finance leads across the department for their um work on putting all this information together.

So first I'm gonna start with the special fund FTEs.

Um I provided the kind of detailed Excel spreadsheet.

Um so you all have should have access to that information.

You can dig in, you can cut the data any way you want.

Um, but it's it's really useful, really interesting data.

Um what we um have in the 2026 adopted budget is 780.36 um FTEs funded in special funds, and that represents 97.5 million dollars, um both a salary and fringe.

Um those FTEs are paid for really by a diverse array of revenue sources.

Um I've got some examples on this slide in the table at the bottom that shows the FTE count and the total cost by fund type, and then um examples of what those revenue sources are that um are within those funds.

So one example, enterprise funds, um, enterprise funds are set up like um business services, so that's like our police impound lot, our parks golf fund, our public works sewer fund.

So that revenue is paid for by fees that external users of those services are paying the city.

So as you kind of dig into that data, you'll find a lot of information about all of the different revenue sources that are supporting those special fund FTEs across all of our funds.

So the vast majority, 89% or 696 FTEs are supported by ongoing funding sources.

11% or 80, almost 84 FTEs are not ongoing sources, but the end dates for those sources varies widely.

So a lot of those are grant funded.

Those grants could be ending next year or in three years.

Some of those FTEs are supported by opioid funds.

We have a much longer timeline and kind of phase phase off plan for that.

The opioid funds are available for the next 12 years.

So just a lot of variability in the data.

And yeah, a lot of FTEs in the city supported by special funds.

This slide provides a breakdown of.

The director logs in.

Just a quick note on this slide.

I think you know, at some point it'll be very helpful to just kind of know of those that are non-ongoing, so like 83, you know, 0.92 FTEs.

Just as we're getting to approaching to the timeline, like just kind of knowing when the when that funding lapses.

And so just some of them, especially for those that are grants and like yes, opioid dollars or public safety aid.

I know that one of the conversations last budget cycle, we were made notified, you know, we were notified that maybe there was funding that we thought we were gonna get that we didn't get.

And so just in advance of that, it would be really helpful to have that have kind of like the breakdown of when we're expecting to do that, when we're expecting for them to roll off of the funding cycle, or if there's any that are kind of at that risk piece again of not being funded for the new year.

Sure, sure, Chair Johnson.

Um, so the the spreadsheet currently has a column that indicates the end date for all of the sources.

So it'll say in there the specific year that all of the funding ends.

So for like opioid funding, it says I think 2038.

Um so the grants should all indicate the actual end date as well.

Um, and then certainly through the budget process, if um departments want those positions to continue if they're intended to be you know permanent positions, departments would be like bringing forward budget requests to either you know shift those FTEs into other funding sources, um, you know, requesting general funds, like departments would need to be bringing that forward in the budget process for sure.

That's how we would that's how we would address it.

Okay, thank you.

Definitely.

So this slide then.

Council President Naker has a quick question as well.

Sorry.

Thank you.

Well, I didn't say it would be quick.

Sorry.

Um it will be quick.

That's me saying it will be quick.

Just kidding.

Very quickly.

Um the how has the number of special fund FTEs changed over time?

I know generally we've seen FTE growth, and I'm curious if there's if you have a ballpark of those numbers and if there's been a difference between special fund FTE growth versus general fund FTE growth.

Sure.

Um, Chair Johnson and Council President Naker.

Um we I off the top of my head I can't say, but all that information is in our annual budget books.

So we could definitely pull up there's a table in the annual each annual budget that shows total FTEs, special fund versus general fund.

So we could pull that together really quickly.

Thank you.

Definitely.

Any other questions?

All right.

So on this slide, um, this is still we're still in special fund FTEs for 2026, but this is a breakout by department.

Um so you can see here parks and public works have the greatest number of special fund FTEs.

Um I think PED has the greatest percentage of special fund FTEs.

I think 100% of PEDs staff are funded in special funds.

Um you can also see there are several departments that have no special fund FTEs, and all of their people are funded for out of the general fund.

So that includes council, emergency management, HR, mayor, um, and OTC.

Um on the right, I've also included like kind of a high-level summary of what those FTEs are doing.

Um, this isn't all inclusive because like in those departments that have a lot of FTEs that are out of special fund um public works and parks in particular.

I tried to just do like what are the greatest number of FTEs, um, but there are there are um folks doing other work as well.

Um so for example, in DSI, all five of those FTEs are the heart team.

Um, but you know, in OFS, our special fund FTEs could have crossed many divisions.

All of our fleet team are funded out of special fund.

Our portion of the OFE team is funded with grants.

A portion of our treasury team is funded with special funds, but not all of them.

So this is just kind of a high level representation of what our special fund FTEs do.

And Deputy Director Logson, you know, the you mentioned PED, PED's operations.

The special fund that they're funded from actually comes from HRAs.

That's correct, right?

The transfers come from the HRA.

Right.

So the funding sources within the HRA's budget.

Sorry, could you repeat that?

The funding sources and within the HRA's budget, or it's like an HRA transfer.

Just wanting to, it says the funding sources and such here.

I just wanted to be able to clarify that piece.

Yeah, definitely.

Thanks, Chair Johnson.

So PED FCs are funded with a variety of sources.

Definitely the HRA is the main source.

There's also billing that happens to the city general fund.

So we'll see that when we get into budget to actuals.

There's I think it's about $800,000 of general fund that supports PED operations.

There's also a lot of grants, PED manages federal grants, and a lot of their FTE time ends up getting charged to those federal grants as well.

And just as a follow-up, then just about how much of the PED's operation or overall operation costs or FTEs are covered over the with the HRA funding.

Chair Johnson, I I don't know off the top of my head.

I know Deputy Director Green is here if she would like to speak to that, but I would defer to the PED staff, or I can get that answer afterwards.

Okay, yeah.

I just think from that amount it would be helpful to know the FDE costs.

Um because I think it's actually a majority.

But thank you.

Keep going.

Great.

So I don't know for sure what are these Deputy Director Green, you can approach.

Come on up.

I don't know the exact number.

I think I know we have like six to seven that get a partial reimbursement from HUD.

Um, and then outside of that, I I believe the number of FTE fully funded, so to speak, although the funding runs across all of the sources, is 60, somewhere in the 60 range.

But if you have that, if Brian has that information, well, we can parse that information out.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Great.

Um, next I'm gonna move into a budget to actuals.

So um are but are there any other questions related to special fund FTEs?

All right, sounds good.

Um so for quarter one 2026 budget to actuals, uh, what we're seeing right now for spending and revenue is that it's very similar to where we were in 2025 at this time in terms of um kind of percentage of our budget.

When we look at budget to actuals um kind of at any given point during the year, there's a few um kind of key things, timing issues to keep in mind, and I have those listed on this slide.

Um so first there's always a payroll lag.

We get paid, you know, two weeks after the end, or kind of our payroll is on a two-week lag, and then there's another one to two weeks before it actually is reflected in N4.

So there's always a bit of a lag there in terms of payroll.

Um, transfers occur at various times throughout the year, kind of dependent on the department and the business needs.

Um so certain transfers occur frequently, like our debt payment transfers and other transfers only occur you know once a year at the end of the year.

Internal bills and charges also vary throughout the year, again, depending on department needs, business needs, certain um central service charges for ETI and INET, which are technology related, um, those occur monthly.

Other um basically departments manage their internal bills and they can be billing monthly, twice a year, quarterly, annually.

So there's a lot of variability in when billing occurs.

Um, and then internal services, um, some monthly internal service charges can be delayed at the beginning of each year because we're on a delay of when we start closing each month.

Um, so at the beginning of each calendar year, we're still closing December of the prior year, and that takes a few months, and then once December is closed, we start closing January of the current year, and then we kind of get caught up mid year.

So there's just some things, kind of timing delays and things to keep in mind anytime you're looking at budget to actuals.

So on this slide, I've got the general fund budget to actuals for um in terms of our spending.

And on the whole, we're at 24% of budget, which is very similar to last year when we were at 22% at this time.

I've noted on the right a few explanations for outliers.

So the first one, emergency management, they've spent you know 86% of their general fund budget so far.

That's only because the vast majority of their general fund budget is a one-time annual payment that we make to Ramsey County for dispatch services.

So that's already been made.

It's 5.5 million dollars.

So the rest of their general fund budget is just for staff, and that's so that's very normal.

Um excuse me.

Um accounts, currently, that um specific line is a little inflated because all of our indirect costs are sitting in that um kind of department right now, and those get allocated out to all the other departments once we start our month end close process for the year.

So the total spend is accurate, it just will be um pushed out to all the other departments soon.

Um, and then the last one there's the PED.

That's what we were just talking about previously.

Um that 870,000 is an admin fee to support PED, and so um the department will be submitting those internal bills according to their um practices.

Alrighty, and we have two questions that I see um council president acre and then uh council member Joast.

Thanks, Chair Johnson.

Uh, two quick questions.

One, the um do we have a budget year to date column?

I feel like it's always very helpful to be able to see what we would have expected to have spent by now versus what we've spent by now, not just what we would expect to spend by the end of the year, just to your point to kind of highlight whether or not things are moving as expected or not.

Um that's one question.

And then should we be concerned?

I know the mayor's budget, it looks like it's 43% spent at this point, um, and there isn't an accompanying note to explain why that is.

So I'm curious if you can speak to that.

Sure.

So on the first question, the budget year to date.

Um, there's the budget is annual.

Um, so we could manually just go in and divide it by 12 and say this would be if we had this kind of standard um consistent spending and revenue each month, this is what it would be.

Um, but those factors that I noted on the previous slide of you know, certain transfers and charges only happen, you know, once per year, like it wouldn't exactly reflect reality.

Um, the closest is probably our payroll, which is you know, the vast majority of our spending is payroll.

So we could look specifically at employee expenses, divide that total budget by 12 and compare to that, and that would be a pretty good indicator.

Well, just as a quick follow-up through the chair, that's that's actually kind of what I'm getting at.

I mean, I we can all divide by four and know where we should be at this point, but given that there's certain expenses that happen, for example, the payment to the county in this first quarter, the budget year to date for that line would show that we would expect to have spent you know most of the budget by now, and so it would it would look right budget year to date would look um aligned rather than looking like we've spent 86% of our budget and we shouldn't have done that already.

Um I I've been I I know that this is a standard practice, and lots of the boards that I sit on with that year-to-date line, and maybe it's not in government, but it just feels like it helps set the expectation and the reality accordingly.

So maybe it's something we can look at for the future.

Sure.

Thank you, Chair Johnson and Council President.

Um, to your second question, the mayor's office, um, that spending is a little um higher than normal because of the um exiting um uh administration.

So severance payments, vacation payouts, um, which are all normal, but are um basically you know occur probably once every eight years or 12 years or four years when administration changes.

Um so that's why that's a little higher.

And the bonus payouts are part of that as well.

All payouts to staff that left are included in that.

Are we concerned about sorry through the chair that this will this will leave the mayor's budget, the mayor with not enough budget to make it through the year?

Um, Chair Johnson, council president, no.

Um, the mayor's office has made all of the hires that they have intended to make.

Um, they worked really closely with OFS and with HR when they were making those hires and looking at um staff salaries, and um we told them this is what the 2026 adopted budget is.

There was no restrictions placed on them with their hiring.

We talked about how the mayor's office budget might be a little overspent this year because of kind of the typical payments that occur when administrations change, but that's something that um the city can manage on the whole and can manage the general fund on the whole.

We have several departments that overspend every year and several departments that underspend every year.

So we have no concerns about managing that.

Um I think as a follow-up, just to um one of the things that I think would be really really helpful for us as well.

Just we are, I think everyone here is aware of the public uh news articles and the public mentioning around the mayor's budget overall and just potentially some of the pieces and questions that still remain.

If we could get a staff, like just a breakdown of what that actually translated to as far as like um employees or staff, like what was the payout and bonuses, and then also the justification for those bonuses.

Um being able to see those out of the mayor's budget would be really helpful just because I know for me that that's something that I still am very interested in seeing that I haven't seen.

And so that's not something that I expect for you to have to say today.

That's more so a follow-up that I wanted to note for the record.

Sure, Chair Johnson, and that would be a request of HR.

HR manage that process.

So the the expenditures and just like what the amounts were would be HR.

Yes.

Okay.

Yep, it's all in contracts.

So HR manage that process.

Okay, wonderful.

We can follow up then, Commodore with HR and make that request.

Great.

Uh sorry, uh Councilmember Jose.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, thank you, uh Director Logson.

Um, Council President Acre actually asked like pretty much all of my questions and follow-up questions.

So thank you for doing that.

Um I do want to clarify.

Um, so you mentioned you know, the majority of these sta uh department budgets, and what we see in expenditures are staff time, except for a few of these specific cases.

Um, so for most of these departments, except for the ones where there are notes, can we expect to see um the budget?

This is kind of what Council President Naker was touching on, but you know, around 25% because we're you know a quarter of the way through the year that they would increase that way just with the majority of the expenditures being salaries.

Is that what you would we can expect to see basically?

Yeah, Chair Johnson and Councilmember Joe's, um, yes, with some qualifications.

You know, there are certain department general fund budgets that do include um transfers to special funds that are not specifically for FTEs, and those transfers occur, you know, in Q3 or Q4.

So some qualifications, but generally the vast majority of our general fund spending is for FTEs, so that's why on the whole we're at 24%.

So thanks.

And I'll I'll just add I I'm I really appreciate all this information and and everything you just said about some transfers occur in certain quarters.

I think as I'm learning more about you know the budget and how it actually works and how it's expended throughout the year, just even understand that's very helpful.

So I'm grateful for you know all the information being shared today.

Alrighty.

All right.

Next we have revenue.

Um, so on this slide we can see our Q1 revenues for 2026.

Right now we're at four percent, which is pretty comparable to last year when we were at seven percent at this time.

Um, the reason revenue in Q1 is so different than spending in Q1 is because our major revenue sources don't come in in Q1.

So our property tax, our first property tax payment from the county comes in at the end of May, and our first local government aid or LGA from the state comes in in July.

Um, so in Q2 and Q3, that's when you'll start to see revenue um kind of drastically increase.

Um, so this is very normal.

Um, I again have a few notes about um outliers here.

Um so for both um general government and library, that's where we'll see the property taxes and LGA come in.

So it's the same note there.

Um, and then the other outlier right now is OFS.

Um, so all of our interest payments so far this year, they all um get deposited in OFS at first, and then as we do that month-end close process, it gets distributed out to um other departments and other funds.

So um, so OFS being at you know 200% of budget right now is is not accurate.

It's just because we haven't done the um year-end close or month end close process yet.

Um, and then certain departments um do not generate general fund revenue, so that's also normal.

I see a question from council member Coleman.

Thank you, Chair, and thanks so much, Deputy Director.

Uh, just a quick question with the county delaying pro or offering the ability to extend property tax payments by two months.

I'm curious if that has any impact.

If we I assume we still expect a payment on schedule, but then potentially a second payment.

I'm assuming we're fine there, but just want to double check.

For sure.

Chair Johnson and um councilmember Coleman, um, yes, we will still be getting a payment from the county at the end of May.

Um, they have been sending us updates on that um program that they've set up.

Um, the uptake I think has been somewhat low.

So the impact to St.

Paul is is pretty low.

I think it's in the tens of thousands, so it's not gonna have a major impact um on our kind of first property tax payment, or I think on our um annual property taxes.

Council President Acre.

Thanks, Chair Johnson.

Um Dr.

Loxton, can you remind us of the sources of the revenue that come into the city attorney's office, the council and the mayor's office?

Sure.

I will um Chair Johnson and Council President, I'll do my best off the top of my head, but um we can definitely follow with more specifics.

So the city attorney gets some revenue from outside sources that are paying for city attorney services.

So they contract with PHA, public housing, um, as well as port authority.

Um, and so those are some sources there.

Um for council and the mayor's office.

Um I I'm gonna need to follow up.

I don't want to give wrong information.

Can't Joe just tell us for sure.

Thank you.

Yep.

Okay.

Um, well, I really appreciate just kind of being able to get a glimpse of this.

I know this is our first one, right?

Of uh four that we will ultimately have for this year and continuing.

And so just one of the things that's really important is just that we had to have a starting point.

So I think you know, the feedback that was received of just the additional columns or additional information that would be helpful, right?

Like uh deputy director logs and responded to the initial request that came from council of what this would look like, and so we're able to really, you know, expand that, change that as we go forward, especially to get the information that we ultimately are looking to see when we have enough time to do so.

So if you know, and I think it would be curious as well to the OFS team to kind of know based off of what we've been able to see here, what the feedback is and if this is this hits what we were looking at and what we're wanting this conversation to be like moving forward.

Um, and so I just want to say with the questions that were put in front of uh OFS 2%.

This is exactly what you know the what um myself is cheer, and uh you know what Kamud has communicated, and so just was really happy with seeing just the numbers in hand, it's really digestible.

It yes, that brings on questions and brings about conversation, but I think that's the purpose of why we wanted the budget to actuals in the first place.

Um I will say a shameless plug in the sense that uh right Saint Paul is um has maintained our triple A uh rating standard uh here from Fitch and SNP and they reaffirmed our rating, which I ultimately feel like is it a testament to the work that you all are doing and is quite the achievement.

Um, and so I just want to name that as well while I have you in front of me and while I have the team as well, because that's uh something that I know we work really hard to maintain.

So to your credit, and when we get into the um to the midst of everything, you know, most of last year was under your leadership, and I do want to take a minute to acknowledge that, especially as someone who um stepped up to serve in an interim time, especially when there was just so many anomalies.

So I want to say thank you for your for your service as well as an interim uh director and um thank you, and I look forward to being able to work with you in your capacity as deputy director as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Johnson.

That's super super generous.

Um, yeah, we were so pleased um with how the presentations went with the reading agencies, and we felt like we had a really great um story and strong message to bring of how St.

Paul managed through like immense challenges last year, but you never really know going in like how they're gonna view that.

Um, and even our most critical reader, which is SP was just like um really impressed and really on our team and or really on our side, and so um it felt like such a huge testament to the work of our whole team, um, everybody in the city decisions that the council made, that the mayor made.

Um, so um just yeah, super super pleased to get through um what a like huge challenge we faced last year and to come out with um these outside entities acknowledging like St.

Paul is a great city, you should invest here.

So it feels really good.

So thank you.

Absolutely.

No questions left, but thank you so much uh for being here and being able to do that.

If people have questions is what I we digest things, um, Kamud and our and Vice Chair Yang are really uh asking for folks to kind of be able to one, yes, you can share them with the OFS, but also you can also share them with us so we can start to compile those so that way we can get it in one form versus multiple different uh requests that are coming from council members.

So if you do have questions or you think of something that you are reading, especially through the appendix as well, or the attachment, which I thought was really helpful when it came gave you the breakdown and by funding source, don't hesitate to reach out to us as well so we can um hopefully put it all in a list and compile it in one request versus many.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so the budget committee scope is something that I'm gonna bring on the agenda for both this month and you'll see it again in May.

Um, in part because what our goals will be as we continue to kind of go for the year um is to one get through our budget retreat and then two also from our budget retreat, start to have presentations and our calendars and ultimately for folks to really kind of know um where the budget um where the budget committee will be ultimately going and what presentations will be which um and held on what date.

And so this agenda item really will be back next.

You'll see it again on the next agenda, and in part that's gonna be the purpose.

Um instead of putting a list of calendar uh the calendar dates in front of you without the topics to this time.

I really just wanted to be able um to kind of hold that here versus withdraw and then also be able to share with uh council members kind of what to expect moving forward uh when it comes to budget dates and presentations.

So I know that some council members have maybe sent uh maybe sent presentation requests last year.

Um and I will need that again this year, and so in part as a follow-up either from the retreats or just information that you've seen and maybe haven't seen presented.

We did get the full list from uh vice chair ying at the time as well around what things are still pending, and some of those are still captured for the year, so it may already be scheduled, but the um there are several blanks or several opportunities where the budget committee can still fit in presentations, still fit in requests.

Um, and so we want to be able to do that in a way that also responds to what comes up out of the budget retreat.

Yes, Council President.

Um, Madam Chair, if we just to be clear, if we sent I suggestions, requests for budget committee topics to at the time, Chair Yang.

Are you saying that those have been calendared or that you need them sent to you again?

Yes, they so sorry, yes, they have been accounted for.

We have the list from previous year.

There are still within that list several things that are not scheduled.

Um, several things that several dates that are available with things not scheduled.

But yes, if you send a request, so like next uh next meeting will be the presentation on the biannual budget budgeting coming from Ramsey County uh right for May 13th.

Yes, and so that will be a part of it because it's been a council priority long before uh I became chair, and so that was a request that we're acting on that has been confirmed.

We have another confirmation, I think, in June as well.

And uh Kamuda, I'd defer to you just to kind of like which presentations do we have confirmed.

Thank you, Chair Johnson.

So for the month of July, we have a presentation confirmed by uh Dr.

Susan Brower.

She is uh the state demographer for for the state, she's the demographic chief demographics, she's the chief of the demographic center for state of Minnesota.

She will be here on July 22nd to present analysis on demographic data.

And then Ramsey County is coming on.

And Ramsay County is coming on May 13th.

They will be doing a presentation on biennium budget approach.

Looks like the county is follow following a biennium budget process, and they will be here to share their perspective on how does that work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, Councilmember Kim.

I'm also wondering then about um property tax trends that we usually get from Ramsey County.

Is that also um could that be requested at some point as well?

It's just interesting to have the demographic information and the property tax trends together.

Yep, I um so one, I'll have to go back through the initial request that was made to the Ramsey County team to make sure that they can if they can add that, and if not, we'll get it rescheduled.

Okay, that sounds okay.

Um, and a quick follow-up, thank you, Chair.

Um, one thing that was discussed, I think, um, or mentioned multiple times last year when we went through this process was what's the cost of doing business?

So just for the city to keep the lights on, for us to have staff.

We've just uh finished negotiating a lot of our labor contracts uh with pattern language, and so recognizing that we have cost of living adjustments every single year, sort of the inflation of you know, costs in doing business.

Like what what's that baseline look like for every single department?

And then what does that look like in terms of a minimum levy?

We set a max levy, but I think it'd be really interesting for the city to start a conversation that at a minimum for the city to have the lights on and have butts and seats, we have to pass a minimum levy of what percent.

And so for me personally, that's a question that I'm going to be lifting up and hopefully uh asking, I'll submit those questions to you.

Um Chair Johnson for the budget process this year.

But I'm I'm really interested in that in the way that um I think there's an opportunity for us to um I don't want to say like educate the electorate or a residents, but just like how do we provide more information that helps them contextualize the vote that we take when we set the max levy?

So just sharing with my colleagues, that's one of my goals for this process this year, and looking forward to working with you, Chair Johnson.

I understood, Councilmember Kim.

Council President, did you have a follow-up?

Um I did, but I don't even know if I raised my hands or I'm gonna yield to Councilmember Joe's.

Okay, I thought I saw it.

I thought I saw maybe maybe I wanted to raise your hand out.

Councilmember Jones.

Um I I yeah, I Chair Johnson, thank you.

I wanted to respond to Councilmember Kim's comment.

I think the the idea of understanding sort of a minimum levy is is really like even what that range looks like is really important because I do think that the public, you know, it doesn't fully understand kind of what all this means as many times as we try to tell them that you know, this is the cost of doing business in the city, this is the cost of operating our city.

I don't remember the exact numbers last year, but I did try to think about that for myself.

Um, but I I remember if you know we get we get figures from OFS in their first presentation where they say this is how much um you know the the contracts uh staff salary um you know increases are for the year.

And I remember in my head looking at it that if we wanted to just cover those without making any cuts without doing anything, we would have been looking at a levy of like over 10%.

I feel like and so there were, you know, cuts made, there were money moved around, there were things added, um, but it's it's very challenging, and and um I think that that's something that you know our community members don't necessarily uh fully appreciate, but that usually results in you know, the mayor last year basically, you know, asking departments to consider a certain cut so that we could bring that number number down.

Council president.

Thanks very much.

I'm ready.

Um I I really appreciate the conversation and Ms.

Kim, how you brought it up multiple times last year as well.

And I think what I what I'm curious about, and that I think we need to identify a little bit more clearly, is in some ways the cost of doing business the is this is the budget.

That is the cost of doing business.

I think there's a difference between what would what would our budget need to be next year if we just kept everything the same and didn't add anything new?

Like that's one number, and I think that is really helpful to communicate to people.

Like this is just what happened to last year's budget because of inflation, because of contracts, whatever.

But then sort of the I also hear what you're saying, Ms.

Kim, this other question, which is different, which is kind of minimum viable product of the city of St.

Paul.

And you could argue that we're above that right now as a city, but in some ways, I don't know how we it's that's kind of like up to us to determine what should the city be doing.

And so I'm curious how you or others would say, like butts and seeds, depending on the program we run, we might need more butts and seats.

So, how do we define what that minimum viable product is?

Yeah.

Councilmember Kim.

Thank you, Chair.

I think just to add to that too, because there's um, like, yes, and then what's that number?

And then with the grants and things that we use to supplement, like alleviating the levy on the tax base, like it's like what's the big starting point, I think, to council member Joe's point, right?

Like to just do this is higher than the number we're gonna we would even levy because we have all these additions, but just like how are we helping work through that number to show um to show kind of like the how the beep and bop is made, because last year we were talking about it.

We have a 23 million dollar budget deficit, right?

But we never really kind of got to see, well, this helps break it down, this helps break it down, this helps break it down, right?

So I'm even thinking about it in terms of like process and also right the minimum viable product, and then also recognizing that it's a a values document of priorities.

And so I think what I'm hearing our council president say in addition to this is like as a council, what is our sort of minimum viable product for the city as we establish our budget as well?

What are our priorities and what's that budget look like?

So really excited for this conversation in general, but just thinking about the ways that we we talk about the budget this year, but also kind of show our math to our residents.

I think is just um interesting and also important.

Yeah, 100% agree.

Yeah, I really appreciate just kind of like the the overall discussion, especially the ones that kind of encourage us to dig deeper as policymakers and folks who have the authority, right?

Ultimately at the end of the year to set that budget for 2027.

I think you know, especially as we're thinking about what the city should and should not be doing, it is really like what I think around the the budget.

We especially this year we have several federal dollars that are rolling off of our revenue source, and or right, special funds that should be in theory expended by the end of the year because they are uh their money really originated from ARPA funding.

And so there'll be a lot of discussion around what we keep, what we don't keep.

And I think that those discussions are what can happen with us as well so as with in partnership with the mayor's office.

And so um that very well also might you know dictate what things we continue, what things we don't continue and how much those things cost in order to continue them, especially if they are currently grant funded um or currently funded by something other than the levy itself.

And so that's gonna be really something that we watch this year too, and I think more importantly, just educate ourselves about that's part of why being able to ask today just for some breakdowns of the employees, like the numbers of employees that we carry on special fund dollars is really important, um, in the sense that right, we have 3,000 employees, 700 of them are through uh special fund dollars not currently on the levy, not currently in general fund dollars for whatever reason, or you know, some of them have lifespans of funding for 10 years, others are rolling off this year, and those will be really, you know, the urgency level will operate within the departments themselves too and trying to find external sources as well.

So is whether or not we roll the entire Office of Nightburn Safety on to the general fund or not.

So there's just certain revenue sources that we can outline too, but I think that's where a lot of this information is gonna be important to gather as we go along, which is why I'm actually really excited about the continued um budget actuals conversation, but also the reporting that comes with it because it just helps for better communication with the administration.

So yeah, so this item will be back.

This item will be back uh next month when we anticipate just having a little bit more of uh some presentation holds as well, so you guys see the dates and what we're anticipating and who we're bringing forward.

I will say that Kamud has already done a phenomenal job of outlining the departments um, so we are prepared with the presentation schedule for the budget once the mayor has done her address.

So hearing from departments has already been uh outline of which dates will be which, and so for the second half of the year, there actually are quite a few dates that we've identified already because Kamuda's and uh councilmember Gang and Kim uh were able to do that ahead of time, so just really awesome.

And I only have a few to fill and not like all the year.

So that's great.

Um we have about three minutes or so before I I want to head us over to the um oh wait, is it 1115?

We have some time.

Okay, council member Bowie.

Oh, I thought we had an hour, so um, we have more time than I thought.

Okay, okay.

I had 45 minutes in my head, but that's because it's an internal one.

I wanted to end.

This is our one stretch right because I really wanted to say I appreciate um having this early on so we can have kind of these like candidate conversations around um the approach to the budget.

I just wanted to add um one of the things I really appreciate from last year's budget process is having external partners present to give us more so of like an independent overview and like a fresh renewed look at the budget because I do think you know, especially for you know some of the most senior long-lasting you know, council members, like my my colleague present Naker, like I do seem like you could can get into a pattern, right?

Whereas like the directors are giving you the proposals that's coming directly from the mayor.

There's not really a lot of like uh autonomy or wiggle room to really look at like the concrete cost of doing business.

Um, and I would love to uh you know have like analysis, particularly around like the income levels of our residents and um per neighborhood, um, and also just see like where is their earning potential, right?

And where's the pain points and like what commercial corridors are actually like what what each commercial corridor is generating um because there is a cost of doing business, but then there's also the investment into our cities and our businesses that actually we depend on those those revenues of sales tax, the property taxes.

Um so I really would love for us to have a um a thought partner along the way in terms of how our investments into the city is actually giving us a higher return on investment, and um thinking um about that intentionally.

Um also the last thing I want to just mention as well is um I would love to track like you know what is our top revenue generators.

I do think this is a great um ballpark in terms of like which uh department, but even within each department, like we're where are ways that we can be actually investing more into uh a department or a program or um a service that's actually you know, we're seeing you know higher revenue sources.

Uh, just because like you mentioned um Chair Johnson, like we're gonna be seeing a lot, we've already been seeing lots of cuts on the federal level.

Um, so I think cities across the country are looking at more creative ways and equitable ways in terms of generating re revenue and you know how we leaning on the state um and being more proactive in terms of like you know, our our our policy muscle to be able to get more support from the state and the feds.

Thank you, Councilmember Bowie.

Glad that we had we got through our first uh cut budget committee of the year.

So with that, we are adjourned.