St.

Paul City Council Policy Committee to order.

Roll call, please.

Councilmember Bowie.

Council President Naker.

Councilmember Joost.

Councilmember Coleman.

Councilmember Kim.

Council Vice President Yang.

Councilmember Johnson.

Seeing five present, two absent.

Councilmember Bowie is excused for the first thirty minutes of the meeting.

And we have three items on our agenda today.

Um, and the first one, uh, we're really excited to welcome the Port Authority.

Um, I think Mr.

Hurley, uh oh, Ms.

Arm to tag team effort to uh present on the Portland uh Port Authority's industrial land study.

This is something I know all of us have expressed a lot of interest in as we talk about expanding our tax base, which is a priority for this whole council.

Um, and the timing couldn't be better as we approach budget season, so welcome up.

And we have a new uh innovation at the council, which is a timer for presentations.

So we're gonna set it for 45 minutes and it will at some point and it'll be counting down, but you can start.

Wonderful.

Well, good morning, and thanks for having us here today.

I'm Ashley Aram.

I'm Senior Vice President of Communications and External Affairs at the Port Authority.

Um we are very excited to be here today to walk through our findings of the industrial land study that we commissioned last year.

Uh, we worked with North Span, who is a nonprofit um agency who works in the upper midwest on economic development.

Uh and we really um wanted to make sure that this was something that would be able to paint a pick a picture of all of St.

Paul's industrial land.

So um different from prior studies we've done at the Port Authority.

This looks at all of the industrially zone land in St.

Paul and not just our business centers through the port.

Um, when we kind of put this study together, we met with key stakeholders to walk through this study.

Um, and we also have a lot of presentations planned in communities, our district councils and others.

That being said, um, if you see this presentation today and you think there are community groups or folks you think would be interested in this information, please reach out to me.

I would love to get on their calendars.

We really want to make sure we're sharing this with folks and um making sure this information is really considered in land use decisions and that community members understand uh kind of the data and facts behind industrial land in St.

Paul.

Um, with that, I will turn it over to our president Todd Hurley, who's going to walk through the findings of our city with you today.

Welcome.

Good morning.

Uh thank you, Ashley.

Council President Acre, members of the City Council.

My name is Todd Hurley, and I'm the president and CEO of the St.

Paul Port Authority.

I have with me today here also Mike Solomon, who is the chief financial officer of the Port Authority, and Christine Williams, who is our chief development officer.

And again, reasons for having them here is this study uh at the St.

Paul Port Authority has really been an all hands-on deck.

Uh there are there are conversations we have across our our organization around the development in St.

Paul, around the financing in St.

Paul, and around communications and outreach in St.

Paul.

And so I thought it'd be appropriate to have my leadership team here who have all partaken uh in this study.

Um, so again, thank you for your for the time to be here.

Um, I don't know where the timer is, but I'm sure hopefully I'll get done within 30 minutes.

Yep, I'm here.

I mean, um it's it's here if all else fits.

Okay, I didn't know if there's gonna be like a line down clock.

Um, though, so up in front of you is really the title page of this, but one of the things that I'll I'll start this with is is as Ashley talked about uh we have been uh working on this for the past year, and we've and this has been out in community and out in certain places already.

Um, Council President Acre, I was I had the opportunity to talk with Council President Acre about this, which is how we got the opportunity to come to the policy session here.

It would have been great to be here earlier.

Uh but as timing went, uh the 20th of May was the first time we could get on here.

So I appreciate being here.

Also for uh Councilmember Yang, uh Commissioner Yang at the Port Authority and Commissioner Johnson.

Uh they also did see a preview, a different version of this presentation.

So some of this, none of this is really gonna be new to certain people, uh, but I hope that it is actually informational for the council uh and again looking to have a conversation as we go through this, uh, because there could be a lot of questions, and I'm more than willing to take questions.

And I have my team here who can also help with anything.

Um that being said, uh the St.

Paul Port Authority at a very high level.

Uh our mission at the St.

Paul Port Authority is really around expanding the city's tax base.

Uh one of the things we do is we clean up contaminated land and we look to create quality jobs in the city of St.

Paul while advancing sustainable and equitable development while also being a fierce advocate for the working river.

Uh so that's the St.

Paul Port Authority, really, as our mission.

Um we get to uh, you know, the what what is this study?

So really in this study, we are really trying to dig deep into what is the real value of industrial land in a city uh in a municipality, in a city like the city of St.

Paul.

Uh so what we did here uh is we really used uh data to provide information to inform the study on the value of industrial land in St.

Paul.

Uh we also wanted to use the study to update the what I would call the out the uh outdated perception of what what is industrial land.

What is it?

What is uh an industrial user in St.

Paul?

And so we'll get into some of that in this study uh again, and then using data to talk about uh tax revenues generated within industrial properties in St.

Paul uh and what does that mean with the cost of city services that are consumed by industrial land users in St.

Paul?

Um, why now?

Uh, one of the we this was has been part of our work plan, and why now really is is really kind of well written down in this slide.

Uh, we're sitting here in St.

Paul, and we've got several conversion pressures in St.

Paul, and I know all of you as council members are hearing about these, but right now we're experiencing a slow, uh slowing in our tax base.

We're also uh experiencing rising taxes.

Uh, I just did this presentation in in uh early May or late April, and property tax statements went out, and people were concerned about property taxes, and so one of the things that I think we can find out, find from this is that industrial land does provide uh a great way to generate property taxes in the city.

Uh other things that we we we know are land is limited, especially industrial land, and I've got maps and and some figures in this study that talk about the limitations and the scarcity of industrial land in St.

Paul, and as you all know, we've been working hard in the downtown, and the downtown is in flux, but I do think we're in an opportunity as we uh work through the issues in downtown.

Uh, again, all very current issues in St.

Paul.

Um, so the time is right to understand really the benefits of industrial land.

Um again, you know, we're we're we'll talk about how do we balance land pressures.

I mean, there are there are people there are we know that there is a housing need in St.

Paul, but we also know that there is a property tax need, and so how do we balance these pressures and keep uh diversity in our in our land to create opportunities for tax base?

One of the questions that came up in several of our presentations is when you talk about industrial land and you talk about industrial uses, uh, what are those types of uses?

And so this slide is actually a new slide in the presentation as of uh a couple weeks ago.

And again, I won't read all of these, but just for informational purposes, uh, we wanted to list the types of uses that that can happen and do happen in St.

Paul in industrial zone land.

And so, you know, you can start at a very high level, you've got manufacturing and you've got construction, but you go down the list and we've got transportation and warehousing, we've got commercial and industrial and machinery rental and leasing, we've got linen and uniform supply companies in St.

Paul, appliance repairs and maintenance, truck utilities and uh lease, waste management and telecommunications.

So there are a lot of uses uh industrial land that that actually, you know, they're here, they're in our neighborhoods, and they provide great opportunities for jobs, and they also provide great opportunities for tax base.

Again, use this list um just to know really what the types of uh industries we have in St.

Paul.

Um, so the nature of industrial land in the city of St.

Paul really, these are these are some of the findings that we we somewhat knew but also learned as we did this study, and really four findings in the city of St.

Paul, and I'll expand a little bit on each of these.

Number one is that industrial land in St.

Paul is limited, it is a finite resource.

Uh, and again, we'll see in here it is actually geo geographically concentrated and it's geographically concentrated around uh really where transportation corridors existed, uh highways, rails, and the river.

Um, and again, uh, and that's number two and then number three.

One of the findings we have too is once once land is converted away from industrial, it is really difficult to replace.

It's difficult to rezone property in St.

Paul from one use to industrial.

Uh, but we have found in the past uh that land that has been industrial has has had a track record of being converted into other uses.

The Ford site is a great example.

Uh we're not saying that what happened at Ford is wrong by any means, but 125 acres at Ford was industrial and was converted to a great neighborhood and a great community.

Um, but one of the things we also found is that when you think about the Hillcrest golf course site that the Port Authority has been redeveloping, uh the opportunity there, I mean, this that's the first time in our history that we were actually able to convert land from a golf course to 54 acres converted in light industrial, which is going to create a lot of property taxes and a lot of jobs, and actually works well uh in the neighborhood because it's also adjacent to one uh uh 1,000 housing units in St.

Paul, and I'll shall I will talk a little bit about that.

Uh another finding which is a bit of an aha moment for us, and I have a map that will show this is that uh of the land in St.

Paul that is zoned industrial, half of that is actually not developable, and I'll get into that a little bit more in uh in future maps.

Um, so this map talking about so uh again a new slide in this presentation, and I think council member Naker, this was actually a question you had uh for us is you know what in a map of the city of St.

Paul, where is the land that is zoned industrial?

So you can see on this uh this map here that uh this is this is this is the land is owned industrial through St.

Paul, and you can see it follows transportation quarters and it follows the river and the airport.

Um, but one of the points that we make here uh is that of this 50 percent, only half of it is developable.

Um so a couple uh reasons for that.

One is when you look at the area, um, the larger area uh that pig's eye, that's Pig's Eye Lake, that is not ever going to be developed, although even though it's zoned industrial.

In addition to that, uh there's vacant parcels that are down by the uh the uh metropolitan council environmental services down on the bottom of the page.

Uh and then a lot of the railroad corridors here are not good there, they won't be able to be developed.

So when you think about this this and the city as a whole, this area, this these dark blue areas represent geographically 12% of the city, but only half of it is developable, so only six percent geographically of the city is actually uh developable for additional or to maintain industrial properties in St.

Paul.

And just to pause you there, uh Director Hurley, for a second, that's good news from the port's perspective, I would assume, and that that means that the development pressure only applies to half of the industrial land that we're talking about.

Right, yes.

Um, so we get in now um again.

So I wanted to pause there for one second just uh for the city council to to actually, you know, when you see this map here, again, this is the this is the the property we're talking about.

Uh again, 12% geographically is zoned industrial, only six percent or half of that is actually has the opportunity to be either maintained or redeveloped in St.

Paul, unless we can figure out how to convert other lands in St.

Paul.

So when we get into the actual findings of the report, uh, which are going to be the next few slides, um, they're really kind of categorized into kind of three uh areas.

One is uh a discussion around industrial land in St.

Paul and how it can be how it is and can be an economic engine for the city of St.

Paul.

Uh secondly, how it can actually serve as the backbone of our tax base in the city of St.

Paul.

Uh, and then thirdly, the benefits of industrial land as it is there, there are benefits within the neighborhoods, right, around uh the benefits of the jobs that are created and the benefits of jobs, and what we found in here too, and I'll talk about this, is that these jobs are actually work from work, they're in person.

Uh, and that is something we discovered as we went through the pandemic and started thinking about uh remote work and what that does in your community and what that does uh to the ripple effect of of the economics in a neighborhood when people are working remote versus uh showing up uh and coming to work every day.

Uh so the first the first finding again is around the economic engine.

These are just some stats that we found uh to be really interesting when we talk about uh the industrial zone land in St.

Paul and what the economics are of that.

So you can see on this slide that uh the industrial land in St.

Paul provides about 31,000 jobs or supports 31,000 jobs in the city, and that's a pretty large number.

I don't know, actually, do we have a percent of what that is of all of the jobs?

We had that number at one point.

Oh we might have it.

And I can follow up, but I wanted to make sure that as a percent, it's not a small percent of the jobs in St.

Paul.

Uh, again, 2.8 billion dollars in income uh in industrial land in St.

Paul, uh a direct economic output of over 9 billion dollars, uh, and then annual tax contributions of over a billion dollars, and those are those are sales taxes, those are state, local, and federal taxes generated in St.

Paul, but over a billion dollars from industrial land in St.

Paul.

Um, again, industrial activity powers the St.

Paul, it can be can and does power the the uh the city of St.

Paul.

Uh, second finding in our report is that industrial land uh can serve as as the backbone of our tax base in St.

Paul, and there's a couple reasons why we say that.

Um we get into some stats here, and these are stats that I've I found very meaningful as as back as a backbone here.

One is I talked about the geographic area in St.

Paul, but here when you talk about the parcels in St.

Paul, so 1.9% uh of the city of St.

Paul are parcels that are industrial zoned, that generates almost 10% of the property taxes in the city of St.

Paul.

Again, thinking about that, you know, again, when you talk about 2% and then you talk about 10%, you know, losing any of that is is something that we just need to be concerned with as we as we look at industrial land in St.

Paul, and on the opposite side, if there's opportunities to create industrial land, and I know that the comp study that's coming out here does talk about the uh potential for the opportunities to increase industrial land, it's just a meaningful part of St.

Paul that helps with our property tax base.

Uh another slide here that we talked about, and I talked about this is that uh the industrial land in the city of St.

Paul is actually a net contributor to the tax base.

And what that means in this slide is, and and we did take the city's budget into consideration, and we looked at property taxes generated in industrial land in St.

Paul, and we looked at services consumed by industrial land in St.

Paul.

And mathematically, uh one dollar of services consumed uh by industrial land in St.

Paul actually generates a dollar eighty in property taxes.

What that means is that industrial land is actually a net tax contributor to the city of St.

to the city of St.

Paul.

Other uses in St.

So it benefits other uses in the city of St.

Paul.

It actually can serve as a benefit to when we talk about affordable housing in St.

Paul.

It can be a benefit when we talk about land that is used for our colleges and our universities and our hospitals.

It also benefits land.

Um parkland in St.

Paul, right?

All of those uses are important, and we're not saying that they're not important, but what we're saying is, and what the study says is that uh industrial land actually helps offset the cost of services that those properties that are necessary in St.

Paul actually consume.

Um, mathematically, through tax formulas, uh industrial land generates 14,000 more uh in property taxes than than and then a residential piece of property.

That 14 per 14,000 more per acre is actually a six sixty-one percent more in property taxes are generated uh in industrial land.

Again, a number that is just a number that is good to know because, and again, that's a function of tax capacity rates uh and what happens in industrial land.

Um, and again, just kind of in summary, it's a nut uh industrial land can be and is a net positive land use in the city of St.

Paul.

Uh we have a question from Ms.

Coleman.

Um sorry, I had that last slide.

Just a quick question about the one point nine percent of parcels to make sure I'm understanding that.

So of that's within the six percent of land that is zoned industrial that can be developed.

This is sort of our I'm assuming our most productive third of that.

Is that correct?

Uh Council President Naker, Council Member Coleman.

Uh no, yeah.

So let me uh the we talk about geographically the six percent, so to see it by acreage, six percent is developable industrial, and then we talk about parcels that are developable through the entire city of St.

Paul, and 1.9% of parcels that are industrial in the city of St.

Paul generate 9.3% of the property taxes in St.

Paul.

So two different ways of looking at the benefit uh that light industrial land can provide in a city like the city of St.

Paul.

Does that make sense?

Yes, okay.

To follow up, because I don't think I'm completely clear, does that mean that 1.9% of all of the parcels in St.

Paul that are that have something on them are industrial?

Like is this all the industrial parcels?

That is, yes, Council President Acre, the 1.9% of parcels are industrial, they are the industrial properties that are actually generating property taxes in St.

Paul.

Okay.

Thank you.

One of the other findings that I talked about, and I'm just gonna get to my notes so I can make sure.

Oh, I wanted to um in this slide here.

When we talk about productive industrial land outperforms uh other lands in St.

Paul.

Um, one of the things that I wanted to add, and this is more of a real life, what we're experiencing here now in St.

Paul, and things that the Port Authority is working on when we talk about um the performance around uh jobs and tax base.

So we are currently in the middle of three projects, three industrial projects in St.

Paul.

Uh one one of them right now is at the heights, and and I know the council is familiar with this, but the XL property uh that is being actually finishing as we speak up at the heights.

Uh so again, former golf course, and I I should say that when the Port Authority acquired the golf course, the property taxes generated on that golf course were less than five hundred thousand dollars, uh, and there were no jobs on that on that site.

And so when we talk about the performance of industrial land, 54 acres was reserved, was rezoned into industrial.

Our first tenant uh moving in as we speak is Excel Energy.

339,000 square feet uh of building, 160 million dollars, uh, is what we believe that the end value will be generated, and that that's gonna generate north of a million dollars in property taxes.

So just one industrial property creating and over 400 jobs on the site again.

So when you think about the 20 acres that is now Excel and the property taxes generated and the jobs generated again, it goes it really is one of those real life examples about the benefit of having that work there.

Also goes into the conversation too.

If you saw the Pioneer Press talking about how industrial can work with residential, you can you can be living in a habitat house right now, looking across the street up at Excel and not really and not think that you're in this old perception of smokestaps, smokestacks and noise pollution and air pollution.

Uh it's a beautiful building and it works well with the neighborhood, and they're gonna be great neighbors.

Um, and that was a big part of one of the messages we got out of here is that they can be good neighbors.

Uh another property that is, and this is this is really happening as we speak.

Um, so for commissioners Johnson and Yang, we will be bringing a purchase agreement next Tuesday to the Port Authority for what we call IP 6.

That is the industrial property just south of Excel.

Uh we have a purchase agreement uh coming in front of the board.

Uh and the plan there is uh we have a developer coming in looking to build 125,000 square feet, uh, over 20 million dollars in value and over 400,000 in property taxes, and the and and the goal there again is to meet our jobs requirements around at least one job per square foot.

So again, another great win when we have the opportunity to bring industrial users.

Uh and finally, we've talked about Kmart here before.

Uh, and again, Kmart, we are still working through the Kmart site.

Uh, but our goals are lofty, but we do think that we are going to be able to bring 30 to 40 million dollars in value and north of a million dollars to maybe even closer to two million dollars in property taxes at the Kmart site.

Uh, and again, appreciate the council uh and working with zoning to maintain maintain industrial uh zoning on that site so we can deliver on the jobs and tax base uh at the Kmart site.

So those just comments that are more in real time, as some of these slides come up.

Um the other the the one of the other final findings we had in here, and I talked about this is that the industrial jobs um really are in-person jobs, and and again, they're they do they strengthen the local economy.

And we we had pulled some stats uh on this, and so uh when you think about in-person jobs, uh one of the things you find is that these industrial sites are primarily in-person occupation.

So these are people who are coming to work uh five days a week, sometimes more.

Uh they actually they actually correlate with higher tax revenues, uh, and there is a ripple effect in the neighborhood uh because the people coming into work creates neighborhood vitality.

And we we work, we work with we pulled a study from the Bureau of Labor Labor Statistics that talks about um the foot traffic and how that correlates to rents and how that correlates to values and values then correlating to the value of property taxes.

Uh one other point that we will that we found in here, and that is the providing strong wages.

The the we talk about the median industrial sector wage and the jobs in these industrial sites, the median job uh hourly rate is set $37 an hour or $76,000 a year.

Again, these are good jobs for the community uh and really can they can support a family.

Uh and so another not part of what we originally set out to study, but when it we became part of the study, we thought it was important to share.

And we talked about the ripple effect.

Um, any questions on any of the those three findings, because I'll get into some other examples here.

Okay.

Okay, so uh the next in the next few slides we'll talk a little bit about some before and afters and some of the land that St.

Paul Port Authority has worked uh to redo to redevelop uh in St.

Paul.

Again, we talk about that the St.

Paul Port Authority activates industrial land, and we'll put we'll hit a few examples.

Uh again, new slide here.

One of the questions we had uh from various community members and other presentations we had are what are some of the companies that you're talking about?

Who are some of the companies that we may or may not know exist in St.

Paul, who who's who's actually providing the jobs and the taxes in St.

Paul.

And so we just took a sample of a lot of of a lot of our industrial users in Port Authority business centers and put together uh a pretty simple just sheet here for people to see, you know, the various companies that you may or may not know exist in St.

Paul in your wards, who are actually great partners for us in St.

Paul, and all of these are in our proper our businesses in St.

Paul Business Centers.

So again, as you think of these, and there are more.

Uh we grab just a we grab some from all over the city and put them on this spreadsheet so people can see, yeah, the Warner Stalines and the Sintases and Summit, Baldinger Bakery, Custom Drywall, and everything in between exist in St.

Paul uh and actually are a great benefit to our city, and they're in industrially zone properties.

We've talked about this before, but just really I'll go quickly through here.

But when we talk about properties that that the Port Authority has worked on, we talk about Westminster Junction over on the east side.

Uh, Port Authority acquired this property.

Uh there was 50 jobs on this site, 138,000 in property taxes.

You can see it was a rail switch yard before it was significantly severely contaminated.

Uh but then you move forward here.

Uh Westminster Junction today, 900 jobs, 2.6 million dollars in property taxes, uh, and and actually hosts 16 different companies.

Again, the benefits here uh again with the jobs in the tax base, and again, when you look at the the buildings on here, these these again go back to the perception um of the of the smokestacks and the air pollution.

And again, we work very closely with the MPCA when we do our projects, and so again, just getting people to understand the perception of as we create new industrial in St.

Paul, uh, they are they're great neighbors and they're a benefit to the community.

Um the Williams Hill Business Center again, another another remarkable um uh site, and I should say uh I know we've had several TIFF conversations.

Westminster and Williams Hill started off as TIFF districts, no longer are TIFF districts, so this is actually real property tax base in the city of St.

Paul.

Uh Williams Hill was a dump over uh on the edge of downtown St.

Paul, 12 jobs, eighty thousand dollars in property taxes, move forward to today.

Uh 450 jobs and 2.4 million dollars in property taxes, and again, that those property taxes are no longer in a tax increment district, so they are a definite benefit to our property tax burden in St.

Paul.

Um last one, and this is also important to know Energy Park, and this is an old project in St.

Uh in uh in the Port Authority's history in St.

Paul.

Uh Port Authority acquired this when we acquired it.

It was the it was a super fund site, so we had a lot of part lots of partners to create this prior to uh when we acquired it, there was no jobs and no tax base.

Uh moving forward.

Um, and again, one of the reasons we added this is you look for look at it now, over 5,700 jobs here on Energy Park, 93 companies, uh 8.5 million dollars in property taxes, but just as important and talks about how uh uh industry can actually be a good neighbor to housing and residential.

Uh this also contains 780 housing units.

Again, not dissimilar to what we're working on at the heights, the Hill Crest Golf course, where we're talking about a thousand jobs and a thousand housing units on a hundred and twelve acres.

Um again, just again to the perception that we that housing um and industrial can coexist.

Um really the kind of to summarize a lot about what I've been talking about.

I think the data and the real road all comes aligned.

Um we talk about industrial land and producing uh excellent fiscal returns in our city.

We talk about that idle industrial land can actually become a tax engine, and there are opportunities in St.

Paul that we have our eye on at the Port Authority.

It's difficult to talk about them because they're under private control now or under other control, and you know, we'd like to be there opportunity ready to take them on and create these results.

And then finally, we talk about uh modern industrial uh development, it creates jobs, but it also isn't what we were creating a hundred years ago or 50 years ago.

These are great jobs and they're great neighbors.

Um, we talk about that industrial land can create tax stability in the city of St.

Paul, and when you create tax stability, you can also create more affordable um wages.

You can create wages and you can create uh a benefit to the property tax burden in the city.

Um again, we we'd like to close with some of the stats I talked about in the financial engine.

Again, again, these these have been aha moments for us when we talk about that 1.9% of the parcels create almost 10% of the property tax base.

So it is an asset uh in St.

Paul, and you know, really around our mission, we're looking to try and preserve it and make sure that there are uh diverse opportunities in St.

Paul to create tax base, also to help assist with our parks, our affordable housing, uh, and our colleges and universities and hospitals that don't pay property taxes.

So with that, I can stand for any questions.

Thanks so much, Mr.

Hurley.

Um, really appreciate the presentation.

I have one question, and then I'll look to my colleagues for I'm sure there are others.

Um, hearing you loud and clear on the value of industrial land, and I think it's helpful to have the updated data to back that up.

I'm wondering what policy recommendations you would have for this body to actually ensure that we preserve industrial land, because I think it's one thing to say it and have sort of heads nodding about it, it's another thing to do it, and it's another thing in particular to do it when there are um other competing demands, as you said, not just in theory but in practice.

We had a recent example I know that you and I corresponded about where there's um interest in developing an industrial parcel for affordable housing, and it's a situation where there was a private sale and it's already bought, and uh we could sort of bang our foot on the table and insist that we're not gonna subsidize any affordable housing on land that was industrial, but um, I think there questions arise as to well, this had been on the market and there weren't any industrial buyers, and so how do we um either proactively as a matter of policy or when responding to a specific competing interest site, further the goal of preserving industrial land.

Right.

Thank you.

Uh Council uh President Acre, members of the City Council.

I mean that that is it's it's a great question, and I've got so many thoughts about how to approach this.

I mean, boy, at I gotta tell you, we started out this going, you know what, we're gonna do this and we're gonna work really hard, and at the end of the day, we're gonna get an ordinance that says no net loss of industrial lands.

I don't necessarily think that's probably the right answer, uh, but one of the one of the goals here was to create awareness about this asset we have in the city of St.

Paul and the trend line that we're on, uh, but for the increase of 54 acres at the heights with industrial land, we've been on a trend line that has been decreasing uh industrial zone land.

So, and I'll get to more of this, but a couple of the things that that have been beneficial in this study, right?

Uh, one is is creating awareness of this to our policymakers, right?

The city council, uh, to the port authority board to the community about what industrial land is and what it isn't.

Um, in working with your your staff and PED and your zoning group uh and the people who are going to work on the comp plan um, understanding in a in a future comp plan about the benefit of industrial land and what we have seen so far is that there's actually a call in the comp plan to increase industrial land.

So, how do we do that?

That's what we'll have to do.

Um, another finding we had here is uh zone industrial zoning doesn't preclude putting how putting multifamily in it.

Uh but residential changing things to residential or other zonings does eliminate the opportunity uh for us to actually do industrial development in certain properties.

So, again, another takeaway to think about as we think about what does the future of St.

Paul look like what does and what you know when decisions come you know and again the example you're talking about that's a difficult that was a difficult one to talk about because when you're talking about the property you're talking about you're talking about a couple acres right a couple acres doesn't really help as far as the kind of users we're looking at we need 10 acre parcels right 10 acre parcels don't exist in St.

Paul but if there if you if you look at those parcels and then you look at the neighboring parcels is there the opportunity for an agency like the St.

Paul Port Authority to acquire those properties like we have 23 or 25 other times in St.

Paul to create 10 acre plots in St.

Paul so I I guess creating the awareness of what this is and having policymakers know that that this is a great benefit in St.

Paul as far as our tax burden is is good.

Precluding arbitrarily precluding like if you're in like I'm not gonna ever rezone things because it's industrial and I'm not gonna have a no net loss and then you know or paying having somebody pay money to rezone I mean the paying the money is a one-time thing we're talking about an asset that that we need to preserve and build on that is that creates money today but also money into the future for property taxes and jobs and so I think I think without trying to answer a question that's really hard to answer uh in five or ten minutes I think there's more to come right no I appreciate that and I I would say I think we would all be really hungry for and appreciate policy recommendations especially if it's not known loss of industrial land which I think we've heard about before what would those be I would just say one quick thing that comes to mind as you were speaking was perhaps um if the if industrial land can be used for lower intensity uses as you're saying maybe one midway point is to not rezone industrial land but to allow it to be used for another lower intensity use keeping the industrial zoning I'm sure there's lots of downsides to that and our PED staff are probably like stop talking right now but um that might be that might be one way of maybe squaring the circle and not cutting off that opportunity in the future I see both Ms.

Johnson and Vice President Yang.

Thank you council president and thank you uh Mr Hurley for being here today I really appreciated being able to kind of go through that reminder and I hear you on just the importance of raising awareness right now around that um I don't necessarily I guess I have twofold questions but one of them I'm not necessarily sure if you know off the top of your head but it's something that I'd actually be really interested in and understanding.

So I recognize with the slide that just talks about 50% of the industrial land is developable of that 50% I'm just really curious as to how much is developed.

We've had the county in front of us that has talked through just like how much of our current land is developed and residential property and residential land and um some of those stats I think are really important but I think it's also important for folks and policymakers to understand just like some of our industrial land that is developable is developed and just I want to I just kind of want to know too like what percentage it is um that is currently developed.

I don't think we have that right now.

No I mean I think the assumption would be that it's all developed but it's whether or not it's underutilized is a different question a lot of it's privately owned and so part of it is kind of I think West Track is a great example of a privately owned industrial parcel that is going to have an opportunity to read about it and is there I'm going forward come on up to the mics just so we can get it on uh for our millions of viewers at home and on YouTube.

Yeah so I think that that's just gonna be really I think just getting a full picture of that you know from the especially for folks that maybe don't always look at the industrial land availability every day getting a sense of the private um privately owned but that's publicly owned and also utilized and would be really helpful just and I if it's in your um economic analysis I apologize uh having not had a full chance to go pull you through that um as a separate question I just am wondering from your experience as well and I know that there's a region-wide conversation around industrial land.

And I I love opportunities in which we have here at the city of St.

Paul to compete with our regional partners as well and regional cities.

And so I'm just wondering, just from the market and what you're seeing, like how how does St.

Paul continue to be that place that um can see can um seek out all of these industrial partners, but also play in the market of bringing folks to St.

Paul, especially people who are looking to, I don't know, say um migrate from Minneapolis, come across to the bright side of the Mississippi River.

But you know, just the people that are looking.

What is the recommendation from that, especially knowing that we have suburban pressures as well?

Council President Acre, Councilmember Johnson.

The one thing I would start with is St.

Paul, we are a place that industrial developers would like to come.

And there's a couple reasons for that.

One is we have access to a great workforce in the city of St.

Paul, right?

And we also have great opportunities for education.

We have a great park system.

One of the challenges that we hear is, again, we are we are by and large a built-out city, and industrial developers are looking for parcels that are larger than what we currently have in our inventory.

And so that becomes a challenge.

And this council, I know has heard me say many times, we need to be opportunity ready.

The good news is we have been somewhat opportunity ready because we do have a site over at the Kmart site that is going to be a great opportunity and a great site for an industrial developer.

We had 54 acres at the heights, right?

Um the challenge now with the heights is gonna be the first 20 acres is built, the next 12 acres is gonna go under a purchase agreement.

So again, we become limited again to the opportunities.

Uh, and so what I would say is as we think about this and you understand and start to understand the value is is really it comes again as us, the St.

Paul Port Authority as a partner.

Uh, what are the next opportunity sites in the city of St.

Paul and how do we get out ahead of those?

And there are a couple that we talked about.

Ashley talked about West Rack, right?

So we've had conversations, several of us have had conversations about West Rock.

West Rock is a great spot.

Um, yes, it could be a great spot for a housing, but uh there's gonna be there's significant challenges on a Westrock site for residential with what things that have happened over the past hundred years as a paper mill.

Uh but just having the information, uh knowing that 40 acres is indesirable and it's in great location with transportation on the highways, uh, that I have no doubt that that is going to be the next opportunity in St.

Paul to create industrial jobs and industrial tax base.

Uh, and we've been in that conversation.

We've got properties and opportunities down at Gerdau.

Uh Grdao is on the river, it's it's on the river, but it doesn't have river access as we sit here today, but it is adjacent to Port Authority River tenants and river properties.

Um, and we have been in many conversations that's still held by the private sector, uh, but we are looking forward to the opportunity to be the lead, uh, the governmental public lead between the state, the feds, the county, uh, and the city to try and work to try and get jobs and tax base done at the Grenal site.

Again, so it really is um, it really is.

We we have the people, we have the benefits, we have the amenities that are required.

We just need to make sure that we're having a concentrated effort to acquire and um build properties that are big enough for industrial users to come to.

So, and again, that that goes back to opportunity ready.

Thank you, Mr.

Hurley.

Given that we have about four minutes left for the entire presentation, I think what I'm gonna do is ask my colleagues to uh ask their questions and comments one after another, and then have you do a closing that responds to those.

Um, so take notes.

Uh Vice President.

Thank you, Council President.

Well, President Hurley, thank you for the presentation.

It was informative, inspiring as well, and makes me really hopeful about the future of St.

Paul, especially as we continue to be in partnership with the port.

I have um just a couple of questions.

I'm wondering if we were to maximize the potential in terms of industrial land that's developable.

What do you think that looks like, even like just an estimate in terms of the minimum property tax generation that could bring St.

Paul?

And then we've been talking a bit about AI data centers.

I was curious that that's considered light industrials.

And so, Jim.

And then just wrap up your questions and comments, and then we'll go to the five.

Okay.

All right.

We'll come back.

Mine is sort of a summary of the asks that I heard because I'm I'm really interested in sort of connecting these questions.

So it was um like what are all of the parcels that we have, um, but what ones do we actually have that can be developed?

And then I heard the great sort of reframing.

Then the next filter is what's maybe you know underdeveloped versus underutilized, and then where opportunity to need sites.

And I think that'll lead to the question that Council Vice President Ying is asking, is like once you filter through those and the ones that we're sort of like targeting, and then gives us more of like an intentional focus on what parcels have the greatest opportunity.

What is that sort of tax opportunity that the city has?

Um and then I'll just take a tiny second to say like the Kmart site is the only if you look the only opportunity for Ward 5 to develop industrial land to contribute to our tax base, and I'm very committed to it being industrial to be jobs bringing and to like yeah, turn turn on and activate that tax base, and I just will continue to reiterate that for my colleagues.

So when it comes before council, you know exactly where my values line.

Okay, thanks, Ms.

Kim.

Any other questions that was called?

Only thank you, and thank you for the presentation.

Two questions.

One quick, which is just how we're doing in um when we look at peer cities regionally or beyond in terms of how much of our land is industrial zoned industrial.

Um, so I'm curious about that.

And then my second is probably not answerable in the two minutes that we have, but I that I think that point about the underdeveloped industrial land is super interesting.

It feels like there's a lot of places in Word Forward that that would apply.

West Rock obviously being one of them.

So as we're thinking about kind of policy recommendations moving forward, obviously there's this question of what should our baseline be for industrial land in the city.

But I'm also really interested in what policies could be incentivizing the type of industrial development that we want to see.

We obviously, again, I think a lot of us have this conversation around Westrock, of not all industri industry is created equal, and so how do we get sort of that really truly tax-generating, job creating, not harmful to the environment, like that pie in the sky best case scenario.

I'm really really interested in what type of policies we could be developing to get there.

Thanks, Ms.

Coleman.

Any other last questions or comments?

Otherwise, I'm gonna let Mr.

Hurley respond to all of those right now in a minute and a half.

Well, unfortunately, we're out of time.

Oh, actually, we have a few more minutes.

Um, Council President Acres, City Council members, all of your questions are things that we are near and dear to the St.

Paul port authorities' heart.

And I'd appreciate the opportunity to actually come back at another time to talk about some of these things.

Um I know that our my team here has taken notes on the questions.

Um again, one of the things that I would reiterate is part of our work plan is really twofold.

One is um to be identifying the next opportunities for industrial the industrial redevelopment opportunities in the city of St.

Paul, and two is to actually um figure out how we can get those under local control to be opportunity ready for when that next user calls.

Again, I can't emphasize enough that the the competitive advantage we have here in St.

Paul is our access to workforce and our access to amenities.

Um it's just some days it's just unfortunate that when people call, I mean, we're never gonna be able to deliver the 150 acre campus in St.

Paul.

That's for uh for an industrial user.

Uh, but a lot of the calls our chief development officer is getting are around, you know, medical manufacturing and things like that that are great that are great uh job opportunities and great tax base.

So again, there are there's more to come.

It's part of the St.

Paul Port Authority work plan to do this, so uh we're we're on it, and I'd love to come back and talk more about it.

Um, the one thing I would say, and I I don't know if it was Councilmember Yang or Councilmember Kim that was talking about it, but um as uh as the city council begins its discussions around data centers in St.

Paul.

Um, I'm hopeful that we could have a seat at the table to talk about uh data centers because there are pros and cons, right, to data centers.

I mean, yeah, data centers, data centers are going to create some much needed tax base, but um in some of the properties we control right now, those are not the end users that we have been looking for, uh, because our commitment to the community here at Kmart at the Heights has been not only creating tax base but also creating quality jobs.

Um, and so that being said, I do think there is opportunities within limitations uh to try and create opportunities as parts of projects or parts of uh you know a higher-end best use type analysis, which could actually bring tax base to places that would never probably bring jobs as part of other projects.

So hopefully we can be part of that conversation as the city council deliberates on that too.

So, thank you so much, Mr.

Hurley, for fascinating presentation.

It sounds like we have um a lot more to come.

You have our attention, um, and you have some very specific questions for follow-up.

So we look forward to hearing back from you either via email or we're happy to find time for another presentation to us, especially if there are specific policy recommendations that you want to bring forward.

Um, Mr.

Greenfield, can you make sure to invite Mr.

Hurley to the policy session on data centers, which is coming up?

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time.

And we will pivot uh gently to mobile sauna and parks.

Uh Ms.

Kim, would you like to tee this one up as uh we ship staff?

Yep.

Um I don't have anything terribly specific, but essentially um this idea came away of one of my um constituents that um is really interested in sort of how we help um connect uh the great parks and rec systems that we have here in the cities with some community opportunities like mobile saunas.

Um there's examples of these, um a few in the state.

Um I want to be very clear, very distinctively different than sort of what is being considered in Minneapolis.

Um, and so I've got uh Director Rodriguez and Dan Angelic to come kind of talk about where we've identified opportunities and where it might fit for consideration if this is something that the council would be interested in taking on.

But essentially a cool way to potentially recreate in St.

Paul.

So Andy, I'll let you take it off.

There are no slides, just for the Thanks Council President, Council members.

Um appreciate the notes on just what our park system is.

Today is actually um National Park Score Day.

So uh we rank number four in the country um today.

So that information was released.

We're pretty much deadlocked with Minneapolis, who's at number three, and then DC remains number one, but they kind of cheat.

So maybe we can bump ours up.

Um, one of the things that makes our park system so great is our ability to adapt to trends as you outlined, right?

So there is a strong demand for mobile saunas within our system, and we're seeing a lot of surrounding park agencies um adopt new policies and framework to allow those on parkland.

Um so we've researched that.

We have a framework uh for parks to manage uh to manage it on parkland, um, but there is a DSI ordinance kind of consideration that that needs to occur.

So I'm gonna turn it over to Dan Nazelek uh from DSI to elaborate further on that, and then I'll round out kind of the implementation piece.

And as Mr.

Najala comes up at the risk of seeming like a sauna neophyte, what is a mobile sauna?

Mobile sauna is for those that don't know, great question.

Uh, Council President is a essentially a sauna on wheels, something that can it's not um brick and mortar, it's something that can travel from space to space.

Sometimes it shows up on a trailer.

Uh they vary in size.

Um, you see some of them in residential backyards, some of them are more commercial across the river.

Um Minneapolis Park Board has many, they kind of have a sauna uh village per se, um, in one of their parks, so um uh a mobile framework that um can travel from space to space.

Thank you.

And just one follow-up.

Is it typically like an individual-sized sauna or multiple people?

And is it just the sauna itself, or is it also sort of a sauna complex where you would like go in and sign in and use the sauna?

How big I guess it's usually just like a sauna unit, so not where you're signing in, but they might have an online platform for reservations and other things.

And we'll talk about that piece in the implementation, but it's um very much meant for like groups, small groups.

Um, I don't think we would have like an individual based sauna, but it would be more for friends gathering and hanging out in the space for a duration of time.

Thank you.

Yeah, that is staff.

Thank you, Director Council President, Council members, good morning, and thanks for the opportunity to do a quick presentation and parks, all this fun stuff, and then DSI walks and then the energy comes down.

Here's the party pooper.

Anyway, no, so we're very excited about really enjoying the partnership with parks on this one.

And it's one of those when we have a partner like this, we can keep regulations very simple and light because we know we have a partner that's going to effectively manage the property because you'll receive the director, and therefore we know it's going to be done well.

So, what we're looking at is to create a new chapter, similar to chapter 427, which is basically health clubs and sports clubs, but it would be a mobile sauna chapter, very simply laying out making sure we're protecting health and safety and having all the expectations and standards in it.

The entity would get the license through DSI.

For each of the individual placements for the locations and times, they would get a permit through the parks department.

The idea is the operational stuff would be done by parks, and so they would say we're gonna operate here, here, here they would attest to that they're gonna meet the standards as set up and ordinance for their license, and then parks would oversee the actual permit.

We would be overseeing the operations in terms of from a health and safety standpoint.

Um our idea is to create a TNC model.

So when they on an annual basis, they would be telling us what's their equipment, how does it meet all the standards, what are their operations?

Just like we do for transportation network companies.

So they would have high expectations of basically managing their their units as is, and then from there we would monitor what's nice about a license.

If they choose not to provide the health and safety stuff as they're supposed to, or uh work with parks in the operational, we can then pull the license away from so that the license is really just to make sure they understand the city of St.

Paul is serious about it.

Um we are going to have very effective standards, but standards that really reflect the mobile nature of it and the fact that it's in a park setting that way.

So fairly straightforward, simple.

Um we're just working.

I want to make sure mention Monica Schaefer from the City Attorney's Office who will be working us on the language.

Um she's been doing a great job working with us on some other language, but really trying to make it user-friendly, but making sure we're upholding the health and safety of the residents of the city of St.

Paul.

Thank you.

Vice President Yang has a question.

Thank you, Council President.

Um, thank you both for the presentation today.

This is a topic that hasn't come up in my ward before, so I just want to make sure I'm getting familiar, like I'm on the same page with you also.

It sounds like people who own the mobile saunas, they want to turn it into a business, so that's why you they would need the licensing just so that we can regulate it.

Is that correct?

And then, is there um an interest you um to usually have it parked in part on parks plan?

Can they be out on the public street too?

Yeah, so wondering if we're setting any sort of regulations around that, too.

Council President, Councilmember Yang, very good question.

Um, this is really a starting, and so we're starting on parks property and not elsewhere.

The idea is let's really try it if there's been, I'll let the director talk about the demand that's been out there.

Um the idea is that we have these entities out there with mobile saunas, they would like to utilize that.

This would be a great opportunity for St.

Paul to see how the mobile sauna is going to work by on parks property only, but it would be set up that way.

And just as a follow-up, I was wondering, people who own these, they are interested in turning it into a business.

Is that right?

Council President, council member, yes.

Um, majority of them are businesses are that are already established.

Um, some are trying to get up and running, but some, like I mentioned in Minneapolis and other suburban cities are already operating, they just want to operate in St.

Paul.

Um, but we would have a defined application process, and we'd also have a revenue share agreement, so probably 10% of the gross revenue that they generate, along with insurance and indemnification requirements, um, operational rules, is it wood burning, things like that?

And then the site placement matters.

Um, so you talked about like on the street or you know, in the park, so we'd want to make sure it's on a hard surface or a durable surface per se to make sure that we're alleviating any concerns.

So, question from uh Ms.

Johnson and also Ms.

Kim.

Thank you, Director Rodriguez.

Um, yeah, I echo council member Yang's sentiments in the sense that I haven't necessarily heard the stuff that come up in my ward either, but I know that there is uh parkland throughout the city.

My question for you really just stems from like what the city is gonna, what we're doing on our end too to prepare for any sort of liability that would come from that step as well.

Like, are we carrying, are we planning to carry your own insurance?

I know we have different policies that are uh different things that we're placing on these applicants.

But I've just when I hear about that, I just wonder what we are also going to do on our end to prepare for that and just to prevent any sort of undue liability to ourselves.

Sure.

Council President, councilmember, that's a great question.

Um, usually for any vendors that we work with, we require insurance um to uh within any agreement.

So that's about, I think, at about 1.5 million, if I remember correct, and three million aggregate.

Um so there are insurance requirements to um assess any risks um with the implementation.

That's and that is the vendors' requirement that that they fulfill.

Okay, so we are required to carry our own.

Uh council president, council members, as a city we're self-insured, so like the the insurance requirements um land on behalf of the vendor.

Okay.

That's good.

Um I really appreciate these questions.

It doesn't surprise me that not a lot of folks are about all the saunas, but here we are.

Um so thanks for that.

Yeah, thanks for the consideration, everyone.

Um but I just um I'm what I'm curious, Andy, if you're willing to share, you know, the there's a limited number of sites that um parks have already sort of like identified even as opportunities.

Are you willing to kind of share where those two sites might be?

Council president, council member, yeah, um, actually three.

Um would be Como Regional Park, uh Lillydale Regional Park, and Sphalen Regional Park would be what I would call the three pilot locations, and then just assessing how things operate and if there's um a drive for expansion or demand in other wards or park-specific locations, we can assess those.

But there are some site variables to consider and other things.

So, but we would start in the regional parks.

Yeah, and and just as a quick follow-up, one assumption that I had made in this conversation with that was that there was like a cold plunge component.

And I don't think anyone, I think everyone here knowing what Como Lake is, it's a stormwater uh system.

And so like there's not a there's not a cold plunge component that is like a separate thing, but like you know, Phelan is an interesting one because they could potentially walk, you know, into the lake for that component.

But yeah, just to know there's there's three potential sites.

Um, and can you speak a little bit about the conversation we also had around staffing?

Who might be responsible for staffing the saunas while they're in operation?

Yeah, council president, council member, if my recollection is correct, and I may look to Tyler on this, but again, that would be another vendor responsibility in terms of having um staff on site.

It wouldn't be a self-led activity per se.

They would have to have someone there to monitor for safety regulations and use.

Thank you, Ms.

Kim.

I had this image in my mind of towel-clad individuals running through rice and nears parks and had some questions, so I really the location matters.

Thank you.

Ms.

Just.

Um thank you, Council President.

Um Director Rodriguez, I have three questions.

Uh, one has it has um, have you been considering or have you been hearing from vendors' interest in a mobile sauna near Highland Park or Highland Pool in that area?

Uh, and then second question is I know we're in the very early stages of this and we're talking about vendors, but has there been any discussion about um parks or the city owning and operating a mobile sauna?

And then last question, um, are there any saunas in parks buildings right now?

I'm only aware of the one at Oxford.

Um, council president, council members, um, Highland has been talked about.

Um, nothing defined yet.

Um, but with the pool and vicinity and just the large amount of space over there, it could definitely be a potential potential future location.

Um, specific to existing saunas.

Yes, Oxford is the only indoor sauna that we have within our system.

And then uh for the question on owning and operating our own, we have not had that discussion.

Um we have a game truck and other things right now that uh take up a lot of resources.

I don't think we can uh add a mobile sauna into our uh fleet, unfortunately, but we might have to rely on the vendors for that.

Okay, uh just one quick one and then oh, yes.

Um the 10% revenue share is that standard, it seems low.

Council president, council members, I'll defer to Tyler on that who can uh speak to the revenue revenue share piece.

Tyler McKean is a supervisor within our shop that oversees all of our agreements throughout the department.

We have over a hundred and fifty-ish, so and put another way what's the demand?

Uh yeah, thank you, Director Rodriguez and Council President, Council members.

Uh 10% revenue share is kind of the standard that we go after in agreements with for-profit operators on parkland.

Um that can vary once we get into negotiations, and you know, what we're ultimately trying to do is come up with a relationship that's going to be successful for all parties.

So we give ourselves some wiggle room there, but 10% revenue share of gross revenue is what we try to start with with all for-profit operations.

Thank you.

I would just say I think it's important, especially for something like this, where, as you're hearing, not necessarily a ton of demand perhaps from constituents at the moment, maybe more from the vendors.

I think it would be important for us to be competitive with the rates, the percent revenue share that those vendors are paying to other municipalities, not necessarily with our own percentages for other operators of other things.

Cult president council member too, just to add to that, like we we have heard from residents just throughout St.

Paul of like why why can Minneapolis do this and others can't?

Why don't you have this in our park?

So it's not just the vendors, but there has been inquiry over time from residents about these types of amenities and in general, um, just to broaden the scope.

How do we get more vendors in our parks for different things?

Right?

Whether it's a mobile sauna or uh bike rental operation, things like that is something that we are looking at holistically across our regional park system from uh revenue generation standpoint, activation, um for use and just making sure that we're keeping up with trends that we're seeing in other locations.

Thank you.

Ms.

Coleman.

Uh thank you.

I'm super stoked about this.

At least one board for a resident really wants this.

Um this is really just a curiosity question.

Do you all have any sense of like what are people paying for this in Minneapolis?

How accessible is this?

Thinking about, you know, is this something that the average person is gonna be able to do on an on a weekly basis, or is this like a hundred dollars per session?

I really have no sense of what that might look like.

Council president, uh, council members um definitely not a hundred dollars per session.

I think if you want private exclusive exclusive use for a couple hours duration, you might be getting into that territory.

But I think they usually rent these in about 30 to one hour blocks, um, and it's very reasonable price.

We could follow up with some breakdowns of vendors and what we've seen across the metro.

Messy, I think Mr.

Greenfield has a comment.

As a sauna enthusiast, I could speak a little bit to this.

Minnetonka and Hopkins jointly operate a sauna at Shady Oak Beach, and that is $25 for an individual session that goes 90 minutes, or you can reserve it for like $250 and get up to 12 people as part of that reservation.

So there's like a block element, and then the one that I believe Director Rodriguez is referring to at Minneapolis is at um Theodore Worth as part of the trailhead there with the cross country skiing, and so that is I think the 612 sauna cooperative that operates that, and that was like I think a couple of years ago, but a 90 minute session was like 50 to 60 dollars, and that was like part of a public booking, and but it had a lot more amenities like the changing room at the at the trailhead there and that type of thing.

So it was a little more expansive, but glad we have a subject matter expert in that.

Two St.

Paul residents now, yeah.

Um, three St.

Paul residents.

Um I think that's a really great question in point because, like, should this.

If there's interest, um, I would like to move forward, but more so as an opportunity to see if it's a good fit for the city, and if it turns out like this is something that is like, you know, expands our park resources and get draws people in and activates more of our space.

That's when we can kind of talk more about the different amenities that we could connect potentially to those um mobile uh sites.

Um, because are the ones that you're talking about uh Tim also mobile or are they station?

Are they like stationary?

The one at Hawkins is stationary, but it's it's winter, so it runs from like November to March, and they cut a hole in the lake.

Um, and then the one I believe at s at Theater Worth is is mobile, but like they because it's a cooperative, they can go to different locations.

Yeah, that's I've heard of other vendors like Director Rodriguez is talking about it's also a former council president that inquires every once in a while.

Yes, she does.

Um, yeah, she does.

She was the Ford Five resident I was talking about.

No, just kidding.

Um so I think kind of given the interest at the table, I think I'm going to move forward with uh staff to potentially identify some proposals, seeing nods, and then um we'll kind of bring some drafts back to my colleagues and kind of see where the interest lies.

Really appreciate the time.

Vice President.

Thank you, Council President.

I want to say thank you, Councilmember Kim, for bringing this topic to our policy committee.

I um, you know, you talked about the code plunge, and it made me remember that um earlier this year when I went to Chicago, I did go to my first ever mobile sauna, and there was a code plunge.

Can't remember what what lake it was at, but it was really fun, and it was a great way for people to go to that park and just get introduced to it.

So I think this is a great way for us to get more people to come to our St.

Paul Parks, and then also drive up entrepreneurship in our city too.

So it's very exciting and very supportive of it and looking forward to hopefully getting this in front of the council again.

Some council vice president, council president, council members.

Um, also just noting um we're focusing on uh mobile saunas on land, but there are mobile saunas on the river and other things, so like I don't know if that's in our future right now, but right now our focus is on their own.

Um, but just wanted to call that out as well.

Thanks.

Thanks, Vice President.

I uh I echo the enthusiasm, even if it didn't seem like it earlier.

Um I do think this would be a very neat opportunity.

I will say also for our millions of YouTube subscribers at home who are listening to this.

Um part of the purpose of policy committee is to daylight issues that we are considering.

And so if you've heard this discussion today and you're excited about a mobile sauna, or not excited, or you're somewhere in between, you just have ideas, or you know how much they cost in other jurisdictions that you visited.

Um let us know because it's helpful to get that feedback as um Ms.

Kim and as we are you know considering bringing this forward.

Um, I do just want to hammer home the fact that I want to make sure that we are getting a revenue share that fully covers our costs and that is competitive with other jurisdictions.

I know um you, Mr.

Parsons put in a ton of time in these negotiations, and that staff time is valuable, and so I just want to make sure that it is both great for our residents and also a good deal for for us.

Um any final comments on the topic.

No, okay, thanks so much.

Appreciate it.

Um, looks like we will be seeing something coming forward from Ward 5.

Thanks for your leadership.

Um, with that, we have one uh last uh late-breaking item that I think is of gonna be of a lot of interest to all of us, which is our end of session legislative update from our very hard-working intergovernmental relations director.

Ms.

O'Rourke, welcome.

Thank you.

You look like you've gotten some sleep, maybe in the last 48 hours.

I don't know.

You look fresh.

Thanks, madam chair.

Actually, it's great to be with you this morning.

Um, hi everybody, and thanks, Tim for helping me out here.

Um, this too is late breaking, the slide deck, right?

Um, I'm Jennifer Rourke, I'm the director of government relations here at the city, and um I've always found that doing a legislative update for the client uh right after session kind of makes for the easiest uh sharing more lay-breaking things with you as opposed to you finding out from others.

Uh gives us a chance to dialogue, and then I can obviously follow up with um the details for you later.

So, really the purpose of today is just to explain, um, you know, explain the last couple of months, talk about where and how we landed on a number of key topics that were in the platform that you uh all passed on February 11th.

Um, I did not provide copies of that today.

I can for sure send it around later.

It was about uh I think a five-page document.

I used it quite a bit to go back and forth because we did have quite a bit of uh policy and projects in that.

Uh, um, you know, looking back, we all um picked up and ran with this really quickly.

I started on February 2nd, and then session started on February 11th, February uh 17th, and in between February 11th, the council passed the platform.

Thank you.

So I'm going to um go through kind of just some highlights and the lay of the land.

Uh feel free to stop me any time uh for questions.

Uh session did end on time.

Oftentimes they do go into special session, but usually in the second year of a biennium, like this one.

Um, they do end on time.

Uh the final gabbles were around midnight on Sunday.

Well, Monday was the last technical day of session.

They can't pass bills on that final day, the second year of a biennium.

So they usually save that for retirement speeches and whatnot.

Um, there were retirements from about 46 legislators.

Uh, a good chunk of those are moving on, not coming back and retiring for their time in the legislature legislature.

There are those who are going on for a different office or um moving over or hoping to move over into the Senate.

Uh I was able to listen to a lot of the speeches on the House side on Monday, and if you're into that kind of thing, I'd be glad to circulate a link to that.

There are quite a few, and kind of sweet.

I listened to Senator Pappas's for the last speech, and as you might guess, it gets a little emotional for some people when they're doing that.

But she ended with a phrase about encouraging her colleagues to work on democracy.

And I just thought that was really poignant in the times that we're in right now.

It was a year for a lot of election year politics.

There were lots of references to certain people not wanting to move forward with certain provisions because they wanted to wait until next year, thinking that they'd be in a situation where they did not have a tie in the House and a majority of one in the Senate.

But we saw that play out quite a bit.

One thing that does kind of flow with election year politics is just the bonding bill, and I'll get to more of that in my next slide.

But I always felt like there would be a bonding bill, and it was pretty um, not that I'm always an optimistic person, but I was very much a kind of glass half full in terms of this legislative session.

Just felt like with enough people like Senator Pappas, the governor, and others uh retiring or not coming back, that a whole lot of people would want to get a tax bill done.

They would want to get a bonding bill done, and there might be support on certain key projects.

My final bullet on this page just really kind of highlights some of the dynamics that were going on within the delegation.

Um you all work with the delegation uh a lot in your community work and whatnot.

But you know, we had a new member for the public and this listening listeners at home.

We did have a new member with Representative Mag Luger Nicolai.

Um she filled the seat vacated by Mayor Herr.

Um, I ended up on some committees that we didn't necessarily have any St.

Paul folks, which made me pretty happy.

And um, two of those being, I think the Energy Committee and definitely the Transportation Committee, where we haven't had anyone in the past.

Excuse me, in this um this biennium.

Uh majority leader Aaron Murphy, of course, is uh St.

Paul Senator.

Um, you know, she was a key part of everything, and I've noticed just from my own social media, they're already hitting the campaign trail already with their um new recruits and whatnot for various seats.

Um, outgoing Senator Pappas bonding chair.

That'll be a big deal for us, I think.

Um, and we'll wait and see how that shakes out.

Um, and then of course, uh Maria Issa, who is the delegation chair, Perez Vega not running again and um hoping to move on as well.

So, what did we get?

That's always the question.

Quick question, you better maybe not quick question.

Question from Vice President Yang.

Thank you, Council President.

Well, thank you for the presentation.

I've been looking forward to this, and I really appreciate you coming to us right after the session.

Um, 46 legislators seems like a high number.

I'm wondering, is that pretty common for us to see that number that um amount of legislators retiring after the end of their term?

Councilmember Yang, thank you for that question.

I'm kind of fascinated by um all of that.

Uh 46 is high.

You know, that's out of 201 legislators, that's roughly uh 20%.

I think not coming back, or 40%.

Anyway, I think it's 20%, not coming back to their seat, right?

And um, so that's pretty high.

I think just politics being what it is, and several long timers just thinking it's time to hang it up.

Um, you know, that was a big chunk of it.

So thank you.

So I'm starting with the bonding slide just because that was a big focus.

I know for all of you, uh, it always is for cities and it always is for local governments, I think.

Um when you add up those these rough numbers that are based, all of these are really um, with the exception of the Latino Museum, maybe all of these are in our platform as items that you either were, you know, were strong priorities or were support items.

Um, this was pretty incredible dollar-wise.

I saw a press release from Minneapolis that um just had a lower number than 81.

Um 95 million.

Uh, you know, it could have been bigger.

Um, some of you were involved in really helpful on the utilities bill that we advanced late in session, but the price tag on that was in the neighborhood of around 80 million, is what we drafted the bill for.

So um 13 may not seem like very much, but it really is, I think in um conjunction with everything.

Uh do you I know you can see it.

Do you need me to read through this or not necessarily?

Okay.

We do have some questions, Ms.

Kim.

Um, just a quick one.

I just want to lift up the big hats, and not because it is Ward 5, but because that was the same appropriation that the Minnesota Zoo also received for their general um for geo bond.

They did get some, I think like general operating money and not bonding money, but it's just to name like that.

We were like right on track with the state uh Minnesota State Zoo, and so this is a huge win, not just to get some money for the project, but to trend with the other state um certified zoo.

Thanks for pointing that out, council member.

Uh Andy Rodriguez actually pointed that out to me yesterday when we were going through a few things.

Uh, this is a slight bit more.

There were their appropriation is it was nine.

I don't know what their original ask was.

Um I think our original ask for the Como Zoo was around 20 or 25.

So, you know, it's always hard to take smaller amount, but um, this is very good compared to a lot of other entities around the state.

Um also quick question two quick questions.

One, um, the money for West 7th utilities is huge, 13 million.

I know we need, I believe, 80.

Right.

So wondering, did we go to the state for 80 and we got 13, or did we go for less?

I'm just wondering where that is where that falls relative to what we went for.

And then the 2.5 million extension of the bonding funds for the St.

Paul Inclusive Playground.

I know Councilmember Joost and I are both really interested in seeing that project move forward.

Does that get them make the money available despite the lawsuit, or does that just extend the bonding so that at the time when we can figure out how to potentially use it, we can.

I'm wondering what the impact of that is on the actual project.

Right.

Um, I'll start with the first question.

Um, I think it's often the strategy uh for entities to ask for a bigger amount and know you're going to get a smaller amount, and that's where there's a lot of back and forth between the subject experts like new director Deb Barber and uh Sean Kershaw was super key in this.

There's a lot of back and forth with Senator Pappas' office in particular, just to get more detail on what all that was.

Um, you know, in a perfect world for any of us, we would just get general fund dollars and cash from the state.

Geo bonds is really like using um the state's credit or the state, like I think of it as a state's credit card.

So there's a lot of hoops to jump through and plans to show and the all the things.

So Sean was incredibly helpful with a lot of that back and forth.

We had told them that it was uh we were able to phase this in phasing is often the phrasing we use when we know that you can't get all of it from the state.

So I think we left them with the impression we'd probably be back.

Um obviously that's for future platforms, but um that's the answer to that question.

Uh, with the St.

Paul inclusive playground language, to be honest with you, this is a little bit of a surprise as I was reading uh through the bonding bill on Sunday afternoon.

Um, this is uh I think this is uh Senator Pappas's reaction to the lawsuit and making sure that we just had more time to spend that.

So it's not necessarily new money.

Uh you could subtract it from the 81 if you wanted to, but um it just gives staff more time to spend that.

I think it's out till 2028 or 2029.

So that might not be a full answer to your question, Council President, but I know um our city attorney's office and parks department are working through next steps in terms of the common sense.

That's helpful.

Thank you.

You bet.

Any other questions?

Uh other partners' priorities and statewide funding.

I just wanted to identify other uh items in that bill that I think you know they were either St.

Paul adjacent and are partners of ours or our statewide funding that we'll have to delve into more of the details because we may be able to apply for it.

Um there were some money for ASI homes in St.

Paul Roseville and another one or two cities around the metro area.

Um emergency shelter capital grants is uh funding.

I'm pretty familiar with from my time at the county, but this is homelessness funds uh run through I think DHS or Minnesota housing, but uh that's traditionally I think been for counties and nonprofits to apply for the statewide lead line replacement funding.

This is a statewide program.

Uh St.

Paul Water was pretty active in testifying on this.

Uh Raquel in particular.

This was sort of, this is maybe the big disappointment if there were any.

Um, and there always is, but this was a big disappointment.

Um they were asking for, you know, it was either 200 or 100, both really big numbers for a statewide program, and expecting to get it for the most part.

I think on Friday when I was talking to one of our labor um labor friends, they thought they had 80 or 90 million dollars in the bill.

Um, and it's just a good example of there's a lot of competing interests, and they ended up with 15.

Um, I think many I think St.

Paul needs about 20 percent.

Uh they were looking at about 20 million for the city when it was around 100 million dollars, so this is a disappointment.

I know I'll be back next year, and it's also an example of the complicated funding.

Um, GO is not perfect for when we are trying to do private home lead line replacement.

Uh, you need either cash or appropriation bonds to do that.

So, again, a lot of disappointment in this space.

Um, and one you know, where we had a lot of partners with um labor and cities around the state.

Uh, so I'm sure that will one be one we'll want to include in our next platform.

Uh the next one is a happy spot.

Uh, the metropolitan parks, we have a metropolitan parks coalition that meets every Monday morning, either virtually or or in person at the Capitol, and as all of the other uh 10 or 11 implementing agencies.

Um, we've always asked for 10 or 15 million in bonding, and that's money that comes through the Met Council.

It's for you know project and facilities as opposed to operating monies.

But um I gotta think this might have been like a Senator Pappas gift because she's always been the chief author on this, and it's always been a relatively small amount.

So uh to get 10 million dollars this year is a big deal.

Um there's one million uh general fund for the heights.

I think that's a parks project there, and um this one, this PCA money um was almost 11 million uh statewide for a capital assistance program.

Um there's 1.59 identified in there for a St.

Paul project.

Uh this was also a little bit of a surprise.

I think it came up through the governor's recommendations, um, you know, that came out in January and earlier this session, so we'll be able to find some more out on that.

Uh, and then finally, this one, I don't know if you were hearing about it, it certainly got a lot of press and newspaper, but the human waste situation showing up at the RE Center Um for Ramsey and Washington counties.

Uh, our former colleague uh then Commissioner Trista Martinson is now the executive director out there, and um they've got a couple of different recycling and energy projects they've been looking for federal and state funding on, but um they did get quite a bit of media attention on some of the hospital waste showing up in the trash out there.

So they fought hard on this, but ultimately got a study of this problem.

Uh that was in the cash bonding bill.

Any questions on any of this?

No, and I think we have about six minutes, so maybe we should let you get through the rest of the slides and then we can favor questions.

Um you all know a lot of the work happens in omnibus bills, where there are smaller asks, they put them into one.

Uh some of the things that we were tracking uh non fatal shooting uh clearance program that our police department and Ramsey County and other partners have gotten a lot of attention on.

Uh, we are hoping for more in that because it's only 905,000 for I think statewide um police departments that want to step into this space.

We made sure there was language that St.

Paul would still be eligible for this so that we wouldn't be penalized for good work.

Um the mayor was testified a couple of times on that.

Um, family homelessness prevention assistance is uh got new money with 40 million.

That's kind of a big deal in a budget in a non-budget year.

Uh one-time property tax relief was in the tax bill.

For me, when I hear property tax relief, I always go to LGA, and I know a lot of you do too.

Uh this is this is more one of those programs that um people will need to apply for.

So I'll make sure your offices have the right wording and whatnot for your uh newsletters and such because we're a big part of getting the word out on that, and people do need to apply.

There's uh technically going to be a new state park at the Capitol.

Um, they're doing a lot of rework around that given the new building and whatnot, but it will be the Melissa and Mark Hortman Memorial State Park.

Uh they did do some work for themselves with capital security funding and new policies.

There's some changes to the omnibus pension bill.

Um, BCA Maryland Avenue fencing issue.

Some of you might remember that I think from previous years.

Uh they were interested in uh getting language into the bill, and they were successful to have um, I don't want to use the word bypass, but um they're they're able to have the fence they want at the BCA and at the Maryland um address.

And then in the legacy bill, this is a good one.

Uh, there's quite a bit of parks.

There's quite a bit of new money in there or additional money, and to uh we'll have to apply for, but I'll make sure we work with parks to do that.

Mayor Herb was and I were visiting with some Republican legislators late on Sunday night, and they were pointing out that there was a lot of money in there, and they hope that St.

Paul applied for it.

So I'll just leave this one out here.

There's a lot of detail here.

Um, you know, the half cent sales tax extension.

We were not able to get that out of the house.

Uh, Chair Gomez feels pretty strongly about local options sales taxes.

This was a key part of uh the city's funding for the new changes of whatever at the arena in Roy Wilkins.

So there's gonna be some uh we're gonna have to sort through that.

There were the STAR programmatic changes.

Um, did not get done.

So I think that gives us a chance as a city, and I know some of you have a real interest in that to go through and make sure we don't want additional changes for the STAR program.

Uh nothing moved ahead in terms of operation metro surge bills, other than some great testimony and folks telling their story at the Capitol.

Uh, there are a few on here that I think we're gonna be able to move or try to move through either the League of Minnesota cities or the Metro Cities uh policy committees this summer.

I know I'll be attending that and I'll follow up with some steps to see if we maybe want to have more of you involved in some of that work.

They ultimately were not any policy changes or cub credits done for downtown redevelopment needs.

Um, you know, I'll stop right there and um answer any questions.

Sorry, I'm processing my disappointment at Ms.

Joest.

Um thank you, Council President.

Um, and thank you, Ms.

O'Rourke.

I also a little bit too.

I mean, there's some things I'm happy to see, and some things I'm disappointed about.

I I just want to um uplift the uh you know the importance of the bonding bill and investing in our statewide infrastructure.

Many of you know I'm I'm an engineer and I'm part of the American Society of Civil Engineers, and we shared our um our infrastructure grades a few weeks ago in the state is getting a C, and so I'm happy to share.

I have copies of it I can share with with all of you.

I haven't had a chance to bring those in.

They're also online, but uh, you know, there are some wins here, but I'm also really really disappointed about the um you know the the ask for lead water replacement and just the importance of you know access to clean water for everyone in our city and our state is so important.

Um I'm still happy to see you know a lot of the investments in our city and then some of the statewide investments in our roads and transportation, but still a lot more work to do, and just want to think thank you for all of your efforts as you jumped into this at the beginning of the year, and also uh understanding there's I see a lot more work to still do for the next session, so thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks, Ms.

Just.

Ms.

Kim.

Um yeah, sorry, I'll just add that I also really appreciate the work that was done at the Capitol.

Like, we didn't get everything, we got some unexpected things.

Even in the 11th hour to push for more things for the city.

And so even from, you know, sometimes an insider looking in, I just want to commend the fact that like I saw you and the mayor speaking to everyone, rallying our delegation, working still into the 11th hour to get wins for St.

Paul.

And so it's certainly not without, I think, incredible work advocacy and like just very smart uh lobbying on um by your part.

Um so I just also want to commend the work that was done and just like you know, copying in the right place, but you were there until midnight, and as was I, and you were there even later.

So just really appreciate the time and attention you've given the city um moving our priorities to the legislature this year.

Thank you.

Thanks, Ms.

Kim.

Yeah, I would I would echo the thanks to you, Mr.

Rourke, especially given the the short time frame with which you had to prepare for a very active session.

Um I think my greatest disappointments are just related to some of the things that we continue to go back for, the downtown investments that are so common sense that should be bipartisan that are so desperately needed.

Um this is our third year, I believe, uh in a row coming back with zero on that, and that's just incredibly disappointing from uh our representatives.

Um the fact that we can't get basic gun violence across the finish line.

I know that that's the most partisan of issues, um, but having testified in front of the judiciary committee and seeing the um seeing the way that that was uh responded to and the way that this has become a partisan issue that's about anything but public safety is really disappointing, and then the metro surge uh kind of fail after fail there.

So I just um yeah, seeing this slide is particularly frustrating.

So I'm grateful for all the work that happened.

I'm very grateful for the investments.

Um but it's there's a lot of work to do, and I don't feel like the city was particularly supported in this session.

Um by not you.

Um we haven't even talked about LGA.

Um are there more slides?

I think we are close to time.

Uh I'll come back another time.

We're just maybe the most key thing on here is just um, you know, we'll kick off some sort of platform development uh later this summer.

Uh I'd like to involve you and your offices in that.

Um I'll work with our city council staff to set up some sort of process so people understand it all and you know hopefully have a platform ready to go when, you know, right around early November would be my goal.

Great.

Thank you so much, really appreciate it.

Any final questions or comments?

We have a big day ahead of us.

So thank you so much for the time and uh we'll be adjourned.

Yeah, it was the whatever, but yeah, yeah.

All right.