All right, good afternoon, everyone.

I'd like to call this regular city council work session on Tuesday, January 6th to order.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Mayor Sarter.

Present.

Vice Mayor Hastings.

Here.

Councilmember Haney.

Here.

Councilmember Greenberg.

Here.

Councilmember Duffy.

Here.

Councilmember Melton.

Present.

Good news.

Councilmember Judd.

Uh, Councilmember Member Judd will be a few minutes late.

Thank you.

We have quorum.

Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I have Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands.

Good afternoon, Mayor and City Council.

Good afternoon, Jody.

Um, today we have Ron Seitz with us, who's president and executive director of Fighter Country Partnership, which is a five oh one C four um that raises money to help the airmen and their families that are affiliated with Luke Air Force Base.

So without any further ado, because Ron will explain this in his presentation.

Uh, we have Ryan Seitz.

Evening, Ron.

Thank you, Jody.

Thank you very much.

Mayor, members of council.

My name is Ron Seitz.

I'm the president and CEO of Fighter Country Foundation.

And I'm simply here to first and foremost just say thank you.

Um the level of support that you guys have provided, Fighter Country Foundation and Fighter Country Partnership over the course of twenty years.

I think it's about twenty years now, you guys have been supporting this organization.

Um it's been an example.

Um, and first for those of you who I have not met, um, it's just always exciting to be able to share what we do because good, bad, or indifferent, we're a little bit of a unicorn, um, which is a different discussion for a different day.

But uh, we get the chance through our unique access to provide programs and services to support the military members and families at Luke Air Force Base and the Hundred and Sixty First Air Refueling Wing.

We've added them under our umbrella because of 91% of all air refueling missions out of Luke Air Force Base are supported by the 161st.

So they're supporting their mission.

We've could we've we've garnered their support as well, too.

We support the military members through programs and services.

Um geared towards morale and well-being, culture and tradition, and mission sustainability.

Our core purpose was mission sustainability decades ago, protecting the base, ensuring we got the F 35, working closely with our municipal partners to make sure the base is protected.

It's maybe about 10% of our business operations now.

We're about 90% on the morale and well-being and taking care of those military members and families.

We started 17 years ago with direct impact programs with a dorm dweller holiday party because there was a suicide in the dorms during the holidays.

So we created an event for positive distraction.

Since then, our programs have grown and grown and grown.

I think in this current budget cycle, we have over 70 different programs we're gonna be providing throughout the course of the year.

Marriage retreats, deployed family functions, um resiliency fairs.

I mean, you name it.

Single parent is a huge demographic that we've started supporting.

Um but it's like I said, it's it's over 70 programs that we're providing over the course of the year.

It's been absolutely amazing.

You can just see there's a list of some of them, especially during the holidays.

Boy, we go into hyper, hyper afterburner during during the holiday season.

Like I always ask Ron, how are you doing?

Well, you know, it's unfortunately there's a lot of need, but it's good to be needed.

And so we're very we're very impactful during the holidays.

And all those programs we provide during the holidays, we'll we've doubled all of them for next year.

Um, and the reason why I share this with you is because it's because of the community, and you guys are the community.

The support we get from the community is what allows us to expand these programs.

And because these programs have become so successful, we've actually done something that I mean, try to find another organization that's actively building and renovating facilities on an active duty military installation.

That doesn't exist.

You might have mutual mutual beneficial relationships where a fire department might join with a fire department and use joint use of facility.

We're just purely altruistically renovating facilities on an active duty military installation.

Facilities that are deemed non-mission critical and are never gonna get the attention that they deserve.

Our current project right now is for building an honor guard training facility.

And I'm sure the city of Surprise has used the honor guard for many events and many functions, and probably unfortunately for military funerals.

There's 33 volunteers that represent the honor guard at Luke Air Force Base.

They support 1,300 events a year, of which 1,100 of those are military funerals.

Right now, they currently train in what looks like an outdoor prison yard.

So we're building them a two point, no, 2.9 million dollar 7,000 square foot facility that when the big Air Force heard about that, they said if you guys accomplish that, they'll turn it into a regional training headquarters.

And that's something we're really excited about.

Um couple of the other projects, there's some of the great ones, like a security forces guard mount room, which was nice, but these are the ones that really make a difference.

There's there's 234 kids who are licensed in the child development center at Luke Air Force Base.

There's 93 staff members who take care of those kids.

Their staff break room was pathetic.

So small little investment, and we upgraded their staff break room.

Um, so again, these accomplishments that we do, this is how it continues.

You can see you can see the the community, relationships, continuity, all of that is really important, but it's because of the relationships.

So again, I just want to thank the city of surprise.

I want to thank Jody.

I want to thank everybody who's been a part of the honorary commander program.

You guys have taken full advantage of that program.

Um, it really creates deep engagement and deep involvement.

And now, if I can approach, um, it's the standard how we like to say thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Better have another one there.

Ron, we have uh councilman Greenberger at the end.

This is beautiful.

This is these are really cool.

Okay, the Jag at Luke Air Force Base is on my speed guy.

Okay.

Um any questions that you might have.

Any questions that you might have?

Air shows coming up around the corner.

You guys are always huge supporters of that, by the way.

Sorry.

Interrupt.

Your first responders, your your police, your fire, you always embed and you support.

And another good byproduct of our success is we feed all of the first responders during the air show and the three-letter agencies that are embedded inside those 375,000 people to make sure everybody's safe.

So a little small thing that we do.

Absolutely.

No, I just wanted, you know, we have more airmen living in surprise than any other city.

And so it's important to us to have that connection.

A lot of us have served in the military that are up here, and um just means a lot for us to continue to support the airmen.

Um, I want to thank you for what you're doing in the Fighter Country Foundation and supporting the airmen.

It's not an easy job to serve in the military, especially single soldiers or single airmen.

Um, you know, like you talked about in the barracks.

And so uh it's important that we support them for their readiness so they can fight in winter nation's war.

So thank you for that.

Um I would like to give you one of my coins if you don't mind.

But I'll come down and shake your hand though, because I don't know.

I like to walk down there.

No, I appreciate that.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, sounds like how did you enjoy the uh McCorm's opening service?

Oh, yeah.

So here's deeds not words.

So I appreciate you being about.

I could get my animal together.

Oh yeah.

Thanks.

Look at that.

Council, you want to get in it or good?

Oh, that's just all the holding her.

My work is under Chris.

Ready?

Perfect.

Thank you.

Did any other council members have anything to add?

Seeing that.

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Take care.

Yes, thank you.

We'll see you at the air show.

Yes, sir.

Madam Clerk, item two, please.

Item two, presentation and discussion regarding proposed updates.

The municipal code, chapter 58 on utilities.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Bouley.

Good evening, Mayor, members of council.

Thank you for having Amy and I here.

Happy New Year.

So this item is associated with our ongoing chapter 58 of our municipal code cleanup.

And this item here before you is actually a new article associated with uh chapter 58 of our municipal code.

This is our high water user ordinance update.

Um Amy will have the meat and potatoes associated with what the ordinance entails.

Um, but I just wanted to kick us off with kind of a a quick discussion on uh the sensitivity that we used in putting this together.

We had the luxury of looking at 10 other cities that have adopted a similar ordinance to make sure that we were pulling all the relevant parts and pieces to ensure that this was streamlined uh and in terms of you know folks using it potentially and then us administering it on the back end.

Um additionally, we work very closely with our friends in economic development, and we utilize our water resource round table to vet this with the the commercial and industrial users that could potentially be uh affiliated with a high water user ordinance, and really the purpose associated with a high water user ordinance is to give staff in this council discretion associated with how our resources are allocated.

And that's really what you'll see uh Amy walk us through here and the next slides.

But again, as we go through this, this is a discussion, please.

Uh your feedback questions are welcome.

Cool.

So just to give you an idea of the structure of what this uh article entails, it's made up of two divisions.

The first division kind of talks about the definitions, sets the stage, who does this apply to, and then the second section really talks about what those requirements are gonna be of those of those applicable users.

So the purpose is to establish requirements for high volume water customers.

So the very first thing we need to do then is define what are we calling a high water user, a high water customer.

Pardon me.

So the way that we're defining a high water user is any industrial or commercial customer who uses more than a hundred thousand gallons per day of water.

Sorry, I'm still fighting that Christmas bug that everybody got.

All right.

So to give you some context why that threshold, 100,000 was chosen and kind of how that stacks up with our current water uses.

Currently, our our largest industrial customer is only using about a third of that.

So what this uh definition is is establishing is someone that's way higher than our current highest water user.

We don't have a ton of water intensive industries in our city yet, but we could someday.

And so again, to reiterate this ordinance is to give us some tools to prepare for a potentially more intensive user in our city.

Um any questions so far?

Comments or anything.

Okay.

So now we'll get into just what we're actually requiring.

Councilman Melton has a question.

Yes, Councilman.

And I just repeat this is again, you're this is an anticipation of some future incumbent that future uh water user that could exceed.

Now we're not we're not seeing that's correct.

This kind of demand today.

That's correct.

And it wouldn't be retroactive anyway.

Of course.

Thanks, Mike.

Then thank you.

Thanks.

All right.

So what we're requiring of a high water user is they have to submit an application.

Um, and this would really take place in the development review process and the building permit process.

So we we are already folded into that process.

Uh, our department is.

And so we'll be able to see, you know, which uh user types are coming in, let's say, to a tenant improvement of an industrial spec building.

Um, we'll be able to then see, okay, this use type is likely going to use a lot of water.

We're gonna have them fill out an application, and the application is what uh where they tell us what their water demands are.

Um so once we read that application, we're able to then identify whether they are in fact a high water user.

And if they are a high water user, they would then be required to enter into an agreement with the city.

We're calling it the sustainable water service agreement.

And I'll get into the components of what that agreement are.

Those are part of the code language.

And then the city will review those applications, determine the high water users, make a recommendation to you for uh an allocation that we would then allocate to that user, and then take action on that sustainable water uh service agreement.

So here are the components of the sustainable water service agreement that we've included in the code language.

It's a 15-year term, uh, with the option to renew, obviously or you know, reevaluate at the end of that 15-year term.

The requirements within that agreement are one, a water conservation plan.

So this is where they would tell us if they're using you know water efficient cooling technology, what are the different um practices they're gonna be putting in place in their business to ensure that they're using the water in the most efficient way they can.

And then the second component is the water allocation itself.

So right off the bat, every user in the city by establishing this policy is allowed to use 100,000 gallons of water per day.

So that allocation would be documented in their agreement, but it's their automatic base allocation, is what we'll call it, the level one allocation.

Then the next level is where the city council has discretion to allocate more than that.

If you think it's a high impact project for our community, then you have the discretion to allocate an additional 100,000 gallons per day on average of water use.

And then anything, and so that's cumulative, right?

Um, so then anything beyond that that initial hundred thousand and the hundred thousand that you may or may not decide to allocate, anything beyond that, they would then be required to go and get the resource, purchase it on the open market, and then dedicate it to the city in order to serve them.

The third component of this agreement would be any off-site infrastructure that might be required to serve this customer.

Let's say um a water line needs to be um upsized in order to actually serve that amount of demand to their business.

That would be documented in the agreement as well.

And then the fourth section is uh the penalties that would be applied if they go over their allocation.

So if they use more than their allocation.

The penalties themselves are also described in the code language, and so including them in the agreement is just in a putting it in another place where it's very proactively being transparent with them.

Here are the penalties that you'll be beholden to.

So if you're if you have any questions or comments, I think now it's probably a good breaking point.

Otherwise, I can start going into examples.

I have a question about, you know, we have the city surprise water, but Epcor and other water providers.

Is it going to be consistent across all those within the city's uh within the city limit?

I don't want to have you know the city doing one thing and then you know another, like Epcor is doing something else, and then there's inconsistency across the city.

So that's a great point.

As currently drafted, this would only apply to the water users that we serve.

We the city.

Um EBCO already does have a policy in place in their service area that is they use different demand factors than we do.

So this is an opportunity to discuss that.

If it's if it's in Epcor, but still within the city, would this apply?

It would not.

Okay.

Great.

Okay.

So let's get into some examples.

So the first example is um, let's say a microbrewery, and their demands are 75,000 gallons per day.

So through uh a tenant improvement, building permit process, uh, we would identify them as someone that would need to fill out an application so that we can get an understanding of how much water they're gonna use.

Their application then tells us, okay, 75,000.

They're not a high water user.

So they're not required to enter into a sustainable uh water service agreement with the city, uh, but we've at least you know documented their use.

We can kind of keep an eye on them on their on their usage on an annual basis to make sure they're kind of sitting within that that allowable 100,000 range.

Um, they're entitled to use up to 100,000 a day.

Example number two, we have a bottling plant, a little bit more intensive use.

They fill out a sustainable water service application, their demands are 150,000 gallons per day, as stated in that application, we identify that they're a high water user.

So they would then enter into a water service agreement with the city throughout notion uh through a negotiated process.

And the water allocation, uh, they get the the level one base allocation of 100,000.

The city council then decides to allocate an additional 50,000 gallons per day, and that actually meets their demand.

So this water user is not required to go by their own resources.

So the third example, just to give you an idea of how the allocations work, is let's say a data center, and they need 250,000 gallons per day on average in order to meet their their needs for their business.

So they go through the same process, but their allocation is then made up of 100,000 gallons, that base level one.

The city council decides to allocate an additional 100,000.

And so now there's a gap of 50,000 gallons per day between what we've allocated and what they need.

And so that 50,000 gallon per day is what they would need to go purchase on the open market.

And we have, you know, within this agreement, we they have the discretion to go buy water credits or try to find like a surface water right.

Um, there's some you know creativity on their end that they're allowed to kind of look into.

Any questions on the examples or any go backs?

Councilman Greenberg.

Thanks, Mayor.

Um, I know you guys have maps that show where all the pipes run in surprise.

Does the development department I'm assuming development would happen simultaneous between the development department and you guys?

So if somebody came in and said we need 250,000 gallons per day, you can say we don't have pipes big enough to get this water to you.

Who's gonna pay to bring this water from wherever it is that it needs to come from?

And how's that gonna work out?

Yeah, great question.

Traditionally, the the cost associated with the offset infrastructure would be borne by the development.

But the beauty of this process is we're gonna have the sustainable water service agreement where the we do's and they do's associated with extending infrastructure can be you know formally spelled out in a way that you know brings benefit to both parties.

So would the development department?

I mean, it's almost like you would be leading that.

So they would know that no, we shouldn't approve this because whatever you say.

Yeah.

And the good thing is is the water department is embedded in the development review process.

Every application that's submitted to the city, Amy's team uh reviews to ensure that you know all of our current policies and procedures are followed, and then this, if approved, would then be included in the mix.

Okay, all right, thanks.

Councilman Judd.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, Amy.

Um, a couple of questions.

One of them's math, but we'll save that one.

Um, I guess two or math, so we'll say both of them.

So the how much discretion will the city council be expected to use um to approve something like this.

You know, for example, if somebody meets all the requirements, they've done all the due diligence, they've gone and found their water.

Uh, would this council or a future council be able to reject that user anyway?

Yeah, I think that's where level two comes in, is where just like this council has the discretion now to to consider zoning cases, and that'll come with a recommendation from staff.

I think a very similar process would ensue.

We would do the you know the calculations to better understand how this affects our portfolio, how this affects our designation of assured water supply, how this affects the the infrastructure and potentially our ability to grow, you know, under the you know, in the same light of you know the the strain that's put on our resources and put together a comprehensive uh recommendation with the support of city management with the support of the economic development team.

Um so I think although council will have the discretion, um, it'll be a decision that we can come to uh with eyes wide open.

I guess uh what I'm trying to get at just you know, it's it's a it's a there's a lot of property rights that come along with zoning.

And so if something is zoned and something is completely allowable, and again the user has brought their own water, can we tell them no?

Oh, if they've brought their own water, and and we're not talking about even like beyond level two, then yeah, absolutely, they can proceed with what they intended.

So even if you have let's say it was a hostile council, let's say this council up here that just doesn't like that user, right?

Right?

It's usually they just don't like or the residents don't like there's something about that user that is can they'll be able to proceed, will they be able to proceed anyway?

Yes, I would say this would not be the mechanism to stop them from proceeding in that situation.

Right.

And I'm more looking for you know, making sure that we're still that we're not running a foul of uh protections that are in place for property owners.

Absolutely.

Okay, uh next one.

Um how are you calculating your gallons per day?

Is it acre feet per year?

And then you're just giving us some math here, or or is if they uh if they any day they use this much water, it'll be on an annual average, an annual average?

Yeah, so the water resources team on an annual basis reports on all of our water uses to the state, and so part of that process is pulling all of our consumption uh records from the previous year.

So we take their full consumption divided by 365.

Then 50,000 gallons per day, and then I don't think that's 840 acre feet.

I think it's closer to 50 acre feet, isn't it?

Over a 15-year period, I think is how is that how that's written?

So the 840 acre feet would cover 15 years worth of water?

Correct.

The term of the agreement.

Correct.

Okay.

Um that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Any other council members have questions?

All right, well, thanks for your presentation.

Well, we got a couple more.

We're gonna wrap it up here.

Drive on.

We will there's the hook.

So yeah, just wanted to point out um that the the penalties we've included in the code are financial penalty penalties for exceeding their allocation.

So the the actual um penalty fee would only apply to the overage.

And then we we did put a math uh example in there for you, Councilman Judd.

So we know how much you love it.

Um, so this is just an example to illustrate how that penalty would be applied.

So the metric system.

It's the metrics.

Feel free to put holes in it.

I'm I'm comfortable.

It's a draft.

Work session.

No vote.

Okay, so where we go from here.

Um, as I mentioned, we did some other chapter 58 cleanup.

We brought that to a work session, I think three or four meetings ago.

And so um, if there's any feedback, ideas between now and the the forthcoming council meeting, or we hope to have this adopted, please let us know.

Um, but we're looking forward to um seeing you again and having final resolution on three chapter 58 amendments um later this month.

Okay, thank you.

Yep.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Item three.

Item three, flashing yellow arrow safety campaign.

Mayor and council.

All right.

So before I get into my spiel, I'm gonna turn it over to Councilmember Greenberg, and he's gonna give you a little uh 30,000 foot overview, right, sir?

Yeah, yeah.

So a little backstory.

I needed a mission.

I found a mission.

Try to save lives because we get too many notices that people are getting creamed at yellow flashing left yellow arrows.

So uh I decided that those little signs that are hanging on the poles up there just didn't seem like enough.

And I went to staff and I said, can we make those yield signs?

Because people are used to saying a diamond-shaped yellow sign, they know it means yield.

And then I found out a lot of reasons why we can't do that.

And Eric will explain those later.

Then I said, How about if we have a different kind of sign and what could we do?

Where can we put that?

And then Virginia said, Well, why don't we put it in the little island?

Like as people are pulling up.

And we're like, hey, that's a great idea.

Let's do that.

And I said, can we put on there?

Do you want to die here?

And they thought I was, they thought I was kidding, but I was actually serious.

But they said, no, we can't do that.

Um, but we can't, so we came up with a new sign.

Um, I even bounced a few other things off of Nick because uh he's involved with probably responding to a lot of these accidents back in Glendale.

And then I said we need a public service announcement.

So I wrote a commercial, which is something I did for almost 40 years, and then staff took that, and it was really hard for me to like let that go since I and I tried to keep my hands off of it, and they did that.

So we've got a whole campaign rolling out for this flashing yellow arrow campaign to try to make people more aware.

You can't fix stupid, but we can fix inattentive.

And I'm hoping we can do that, and I'm hoping we can save some lives because I know you guys are probably as sick as I am of these Evertell things going off where there's another car accident and having bad wrecks and a lot of them along uh Bell Road.

So Eric's gonna talk about where we're putting them, what we're doing, and all the details.

So thank you, Eric, Virginia, and everybody else who was involved in getting this thing rolling.

Good deal.

Uh Mayor and Council, I think Councilman Greenberg's uh downplaying his first request.

It was like a nine foot by nine foot signing on our intersection.

So he basically wanted to create a sale, you know, when Monsignz happens.

Um but I think I think we got him where he needed to be though.

Um I'm gonna use this uh kind of in two different folds.

We're gonna talk about this flashing yellow arrow safety campaign, but I'm also gonna use this time to also give you an update on our Bell and Lichfield study that we did uh as well as our left turn phasing study.

So I'm kind of wrapping all of these safety updates kind of into this presentation.

So a little bit of background.

In 2017, we launched our drive-wise surprise campaign, uh, well before my time, but you probably see some of those signs still out on the road today.

Uh, very appropriate.

Um we implemented our flashing yellow arrows roughly 2018 to present.

Um so that's been an ongoing effort as we update our signals.

Uh a lot of those get converted to flashing yellow arrows.

And I'll get into the reasons why, you know, flashing yellow arrows, no flashing yellow arrows.

I'll give you a little bit more information on those.

Um, we conducted our left turn phasing study in 2024.

Then we did our uh Bell Road update to council in March of 2025, uh, which then resulted in the Bell and Lichfield safety study, which we kicked off in April of 2025.

Um, and then we're gonna conclude kind of with our flashing yellow arrow PSA campaign here in 2026.

Um, so I know there's a lot of information on here, so I'm gonna give you kind of the the layman's terms of this.

The purpose of flashing yellow arrows really was to allow for intersections to maintain uh traffic efficiently while providing improvements in safety as compared to just you know a circular green light or a green ball, right?

So this type of signal was approved by FHWA after extensive research by the National Cooperative Highway Safety Program, uh, that it uh designated or demonstrated that flashing yellow arrows kind of heightened driver's awareness to yielding on a on a on a flashing yellow as opposed to just a green ball.

Um, some of the methodology behind the flashing arrows was it was to increase safety.

It provided for an all-red period, so everyone was stopped uh at an intersection at some point.

Um, it was supposed to, you know, reduce confusion, you know, eliminate motorists, um, you know, with confusing the solid green ball is just I am okay to make a left turn.

Um, so the intent of it was to say, hey, flashing yellow arrow, proceed with caution once it's clear.

Um also helped to increase opportunities to make left turns.

Um it also could be put on any signal that you had anywhere, it worked with all the different types of softwares, uh and they could be adaptively controlled.

Um so over there to the right, you can kind of see how they've been implemented in the Phoenix metro area.

City of Glendale kind of led the charge in 2013.

Uh, City of Peoria, City of Phoenix, Chandler uh kind of followed suit in 2016.

Like I said, we implemented in 2018.

We were one of the last adopters as opposed to El Mirage who implemented their first one in 2021.

Uh so some of the recent studies that I talked about, uh, that left turn phasing study in 2024 that we concluded.

Uh, that was to kind of look at you know, all of our intersections within the city to see what kind of improvements we could make.

Um, how could we maintain efficiency?

Um, but also improve safety at the same time.

So, what resulted in that was uh implementation of a pilot program that addressed three intersections along Wadell Road, Councilmember Melton's district, uh, and and he knew these uh intersections well.

Um so in early 2025, we addressed three intersections as that pilot.

It was Wadell and 137th, uh, Waddell and Lichfield, and then Wadell and 140th.

So it went fully protected on those ones to see kind of how drivers would behave, what kind of compliance we would get if we went to a you know fully protected mode and see if that would be possible on Bell Road.

Uh what we did find is there was a lot of non-compliance from uh drivers, especially at uh our Waddell and 137th intersection.

Uh so that one was converted back uh shortly after the the pilot moved on, but uh we did keep everything that we did to Wadell and Lichfield, uh and then we just recently converted uh Wadell and 140th back um after the study period was over.

So would you say non-compliance?

Uh mayor and uh council member Jed noncompliance means uh we we we broke the law and we just did not we did not uh worry about what the what the arrow said my resume.

Um so moving on to the Bell and Lichfield safety study.

Um that's in draft right now, but um we did kind of the same thing, but we really just looked at Bell and Lichfield Road, which was basically one of our highest crash intersections within the city.

So we evaluated that inner intersection to kind of see what recommendations we could to improve safety and efficiency there uh with the volumes that we have on Belt Road.

Uh so the recommendation was uh implementation of fully protected left turns during peak times.

Um so this conversion you'll see um happen here.

Uh, I think tomorrow is when it's gonna launch out.

So during peak, uh it's roughly Monday through Friday, 5 a.m.

to 8 30 p.m.

It's gonna be fully protected left turns.

And what we're gonna do to help clear the queues is we're gonna basically serve it both on the front end and the back end.

So you'll see Bell Road get a left green arrow, right?

You'll be able to make your left turn through traffic will come, then we'll serve the left turn again on the back end of that as well to help clear the queue.

So we're not having backup into the into the through traffic.

Um Litchfield Road, north and south will maintain its flashing yellows, but this is really to kind of see how we can improve or make improvements down Bell Road at other intersections, so that we're still giving the same amount of time to make those left turns, uh, but still not compromising the through movements with all the traffic on Bell Road.

And then um that recommendation also came out of that study uh was conversion to dual lefts by 2030, you know, depending on funding availability or a possible highway safety improvement program grant award, which was looked at during that study.

Um so implementation of that fully protected movements, like I said, uh is going in conjunction with this uh flash and yellow arrow PSA campaign.

Eric uh Vice Mayor has a question.

Thank you, Mayor.

Happy New Year.

Uh so for Bell and Lichfield, um I'm I'm just a little concerned.

I mean, if if so, like I I understand the concept.

So I remember when the flashing yellows came, I'm gonna say came out.

It's like a new album or something, but we started implementing them about four to five years ago, right?

Is what you said?

2018.

Oh, so it was earlier, but and then it was a kind of a process to get them all turned over.

And I understand that like there are some people that um don't use them properly.

Um, but at the same time, I know it definitely eases traffic a lot.

And so I understand that at Bell and Reams is kind of like what we're gonna turn Bell and Lichfield into.

I'm just concerned about the traffic buildup, especially in the left lane of Bell Road when you're heading west on Bell at Lichfield.

It is so bad.

And having, and I understand, like it's it's a safety thing.

And so that's ultimately like what we're gonna try.

I just not having two left-hand turn lanes, like that's the only way Reams works.

Um, because it has the two lanes, and like that's kind of why you don't notice it.

So when we did the Bell, when I'm not sure when Bell and Reams happened, I can't believe remember if I was on the council yet, but did was that the same?

Did it start with the red arrow and then I mean, five years later, we added the second lane?

Is that kind of how I think that one was converted a little bit uh earlier than that?

Like I don't, it was before we implemented flashing yellows, so they were making left turns on green balls.

Uh-huh.

And then I think there was a project to go in there to convert that to dual lefts.

Um because I'm just concerned, like, and I get that like there's not many people like in that specific situation.

Like, and I've talked about it here.

There's not a lot of people who are able to turn left with that flashing yellow.

Like it doesn't really do anything if you're, you know, especially in the afternoon.

But that left lane backs up so much.

Um do we have any data?

Maybe you already mentioned I missed it, but is it is it do we have any?

Is it people are trying to like you know, jump the gun?

Is it just like driver education?

Because my concern is just traffic on Bell Road, especially as there's more stuff coming into city center.

Yep.

Um saying, no, I get and mayor and and vice mayor.

I think that's uh the reason that the study made the recommendation to serve it both on the front end left turns and on the back end, so that we're not sort of helping clearing that queue.

So right now, the way it currently works, they get a green arrow, and then through traffic moves, and then they have to make the left on the flashing, and they don't ever get served again.

Um so now you'll get served on the front end, queue will will empty through movement will come in, and then right after that through movement stops, we'll serve the left again.

So basically we're doubling the time that they can make to make that left turn protected uh so that we are moving that queue out, and we're hopefully not getting any backups into through traffic.

No, I hear what you're saying.

I'm just sitting like there thinking a lot of us have probably sat through it too, is that sometimes like the entire left lane, not like the left-hand turn lane, but the left lane gets held up because people can't even get into the lane and turn.

And so then like you have like two lanes completely stopped, you got people you know, going over.

It is like one of the most dangerous intersections in the city.

Correct.

And so I understand that left arrows, you know, the group the yellow arrows play a role in that and stuff.

And I just I want to make sure, like, I feel like we just have to if if that's the plan, like we try it out, obviously let's see how it goes.

Yep.

Um, but like 2030, it's I mean, like five, like we gotta I want to help expedite that and um and work to the future, which is where we're going.

So I'll stop talking about this.

So I just you know, you know, it's like it's I hear you, I hear you.

Well in Listfield, that's uh yeah.

So you're saying this is gonna start tomorrow.

Yep.

And have what have we done to communicate to residents this is gonna happen?

Uh so excuse me, uh it's not tomorrow.

I think it's actually the 16th.

Is that right?

The the date that that um that we're making that conversion to Lichfield, right?

I believe it's the 16th.

Yeah.

I'm almost positive.

So it's not tomorrow.

We're we're going to send out a press release to uh to everyone so that they know uh we're gonna roll out the dynamic message board.

So it's a 12th.

The 12th, yeah.

Six days.

Six days.

Okay.

Uh and then we're gonna have overhead signage on our dynamic message board to also aware drivers that there's a change at this intersection.

Um, but the Bell and Litchfield Road uh evaluation.

So looking into the future, what we talked about, we looked at crash analysis, uh, we did some operational analysis, we did some design standards here.

Uh and then, like I said, we did that uh highway safety improvement program technical analysis.

Um so this is kind of what you see.

You down there in the bottom left, you see what currently Bell has single left turn lane, long median right there.

Um it kind of bifurcates it.

Um what the recommendation out of the study is is to convert this to dual lefts.

We're gonna kind of shrink up the travel lanes, get a little bit more space.

We're gonna pull back those median cuts uh so that we can fit in uh two uh two left turns uh for east-west Bell Road.

Um the cutback of the medians also helps improve site visibility when you're making left, even though you don't need to do that, but but we needed the space basically so that we could fit all the different lanes uh in there.

And this is this is kind of standard what you see on Waddell now.

Um so it's it's really up to our our our most uh recommendated standards right now.

And this is what's gonna happen in 2030.

And that's what the that's what the study's recommending based on funding and all that.

So um I think our our my goal is to have this ready to be whenever there's another call for HSIP projects, have the submitted to see if we can get any grant funding awarded for that so that we can help supplement that so it doesn't cost the city as much.

Yeah, I'm with the uh vice mayor on this one.

It should be as soon as possible to help alleviate some of the issues.

Yeah, why don't someone uh Melton side?

Yeah, thanks, Eric.

Thanks, Mayor.

Uh Eric, I'm looking at this on Bell.

I'm going west to east.

So I'm going east on Bell before I get to Litchfield.

There's the right turn lane.

Uh is the plan and I'm just I for this study.

Does it does it take out that that right lane?

There's more capacity to add cars in the right lane.

Does that does that is that is that addressed here, or is it just it's just the lefts.

Left.

Okay.

You see the way that it's laid out, that median cuts already there for that right turn lane.

Um yeah, I'm I'm I'm asking, well, that because there's more room.

We can we can that that right lane builds up that gets filled up fast too.

I'm just wondering if that's we can we can absolutely look at that, mayor, council member Melton to see if we can add any additional storage to those right turn lanes.

Um, but that's absolutely something we can look at too.

Thank you, Eric.

Thank you.

Yeah.

No, I I understand like safety is a first priority.

Um, you know, even over convenience.

I I do feel for those people though, and I I think there is a lot of confusion um with left turns in general.

Um, and actually I have a question that like I've heard, you know, mixed things back and forth.

Maybe it's uh it's a it's a chief question, but maybe we can get this answered, you know, once and for all, just so everybody's on the same page.

And that is when you're at a left-hand turn light.

Can you pull up into the intersection?

You know, if if it's if it's green waiting, or are you supposed to wait?

Because I know what I do, I'm not gonna self-incriminate myself up here.

You brought your um our lawyer here, his name's Kevin.

No, is it uh because I think I think that's part of the reason is is that there's not consistency, right?

Everybody's you know, it's it's is it a city, is it a state thing?

What's what's the answer?

And I feel like it's more complicated than that.

Our first dual so this is like the office of line here, but right safety.

It's gonna be good.

So as I was walking up, but you cut out, and so can you repeat the question one more time and I'll try to answer it?

At a left, I mean, take the blinking yellows out of it.

But when you're making a left turn, say it's just a regular green light, there is no arrow, or it's yellow arrow.

Can is it proper?

Are you supposed to?

Should you not?

Is it up to you?

Whether you pull into the intersection straight so that like if it flips to yellow, the cars slow down and then you can turn.

Does that make sense?

So, yeah, so an operator of a vehicle can enter into the intersection, whether or not they want to is gonna be up to them.

Okay.

However, so once the light turns red, you cannot cross the elongation of the of the sidewalk.

And so a lot of people think that the crosswalk is that limiting factor, it's not just the elongation of the curbing.

So that's where you're supposed to stop behind.

So, but there are stop bars.

Um, so you are supposed to stop your vehicle behind the stop bars.

However, if you're in the intersection, the intersection is defined as the curbs.

So the those imaginary lines that make up that square.

Absolutely.

Well, I will now admit that I do pull forward before turning.

Here you go.

All right.

Sounds like you're right officer.

But I know sometimes like it gets it gets really crazy.

Like you have like two or three cars out there, and then the cars have stopped, and then you know, so it's obviously complicated.

I think at the end of the day, like you have to give it a try because what's going on now isn't working, but it's frustrating that at the same time you have 99% of people-ish or so.

I don't want to just make up numbers.

Um, that are using it the right way.

And, you know, hopefully this doesn't affect them too long.

But I'm ready to work with the council to hopefully get that second lane in there if that's ultimately what we decide to do.

So thank you.

Yeah, and while I'm up here real quick too, it just uh we work hand in hand with Eric quite a bit on on these studies as well.

And so those protected left are are pretty significant.

Uh and so you've seen too.

And so, you know, the worry about is is the queuing, right?

And so the the stacking of left lane, so everyone we have an intersection that's completely shut off because of an accident that's taken two, three hours, right, for us to investigate us to clear up those queuing things, though those are issues potentially.

But however, you know, it comes to the safety of the citizens, and again, when we're shutting down full intersections, something to keep in mind as well.

Councilman Haney.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, and Eric, thank you.

It's nice to talk about a roadway that isn't necessarily in district one.

So now I can just kind of even ready for flashing yellows.

But we we actually we had this conversation um at an intersection um that everyone's familiar with 1630 in grand and and kind of the questions that um vice mayor Hastings was asking for one more meeting.

Um welcome.

Uh it is true.

And we it's something we kind of went back and forth with as well as it's always managing, keeping our our folks safe, but also trying to see how can we combat uh unsafe driving behavior because the reality is chief has a job, I have my other job because folks don't necessarily make the best decisions all the time.

And so um I believe when this really first came about, we had on the headlines um Ottawa lost some students, and and people were saying, What are you guys doing about it?

And so trust me, I know sitting in traffic is extremely frustrating, but she brought it up when we have a fatality or even a serious injury um that occurred as a result of someone failing to yield, that shuts down that major roadway in our city.

And so um I share the same sentiments.

I I know that um you know, government doesn't move as fast as you'd like, and I'd hope that we can you know aggressively pursue that grant so maybe we can get that second lane sooner rather than later.

But um, I do believe that protecting this intersection is huge.

I think when we first started talking about this, this was the deadliest intersection in our city.

And so failure to do something about it just doesn't sit right.

And so I I fully support making it protected.

Hopefully, we can get that second lane, and I think that'll help.

But it sounds like we're giving them more time now to turn, which which is helpful because I know at least the the feedback I get from my residents is even when you have the flashing yellow, and you mentioned it, not that doesn't necessarily mean everyone's able to make it.

Sometimes it just means maybe they pull in that in the intersection, they stop, they wait for it to turn red, and then they turn.

So you get maybe one more car out of it.

But what I've also heard from folks is you get people that are in patient and they're trying to force folks to make that turn.

Um, and we have uh we're a multi-generational city, and with that comes the varying levels of experience driving.

And so sometimes that can also cause some issues.

And so thanks for doing the study.

I I think again, protecting this intersection is is gonna make a lot of people's commutes a lot safer, which is is really what the name of the game is.

So thanks for your work on this.

Mayor Vice Marine, and it it's true, just like 160 and grand is we balance uh traffic volumes and efficiencies with safety, right?

So this really is, you know, our right now doesn't cost us anything.

We're we're making it safer because during peak times we will be able to you know have fully protected movements at the intersection, and that is the safest thing for our residents.

So I had one more question.

Um Eric, when we eventually get to that point to add the additional left hand lane, obviously Bell Road is utilized a lot.

What's the construction look like?

What's I know like an estimate time frame, what's what's the impact gonna be?

Uh uh Mayor, Vice Mayor Haney, I love it when you put me on the spot.

Um from a construction from a construction standpoint, if you really look at what we're doing, is it's really a restriping, and we got to pull back the median.

So um, I I don't think it's gonna be in as intrusive as you as you think.

Okay.

Um, you know, we'll we'll have to do a finagle it a little bit, probably do night work, make sure that we don't impact.

Um, but we'll do our best, just like we do in every every job to make sure that traffic flows because Bell Road is our main corridor arterial, you know, east-west through through the city.

And then last question, I promise.

Um, are we gonna be able to see the PSA today?

Um yes.

Right.

I'm eager to see Earl's work here.

Yeah, I want to see that my work.

Your vision.

Uh councilman Judd has a question.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Eric.

Um, the slide you have up here, can you go over that data?

I mean, we're calling this the deadly uh deadliest intersection, but I don't, I mean, I I know some Ottawa students lost their lives here.

I don't there's one listed for fatality.

So uh uh Mayor, uh Councilman Judd, what we looked at is the crashes that we've had from 2020 to 2024.

So what you see there is those percentages as compared to the average of other urban areas statewide.

So um, like you see counts there.

Um, I believe that uh that accident did happen in 2024, right?

So that's why you see uh that one accident there.

Um, but if you look at so we just count that as there was one fatal accident, not empty fatalities were for the accident.

Correct.

Good.

So if you look at it, um, really what we look at there is kind of the property damage only, that's really just you know, mirror was broken.

We ran in, you know, some some sort of personal property was damaged.

Um that's kind of what that is, and then we break down possible injury, non-incapacity and in uh incapacitating into three different sections.

Those are really our injury accidents, and that's how the other state looks like.

So if you look at those percentages, we're roughly at 21% as compared to urban, uh other urban statewide areas at 30%.

Um, and then fatalities were running at 0.4 uh versus you know, 0.7 compared to uh or other urban areas statewide.

So the state those are so those are just state average numbers, we're comparing those two.

Yeah, for urban areas.

And so our numbers are better.

They they average um what is incapacitating mean?

Uh incapacitating is when uh correct me if I'm wrong, chief, right?

It's when someone cannot get out on their own.

How does this compare to other intersections in our city along that busy those busy corridors?

Uh so Mayor, Councilmember Judd, when when we talked about this being, you know, the most you know crash-prone intersection, that's when we compared it to all the other intersections within surprise.

So um, when we look at this, and Chief can talk more to that if he wants, but this is where we see the most accidents at any intersection in the city.

But I mean, accidents, you know, like for me, I'm a roundabout fan, right?

I think roundabouts are great because the accidents you have are just property damage.

They're not they're not they're not fatal unless they did something crazy.

So I I'm I'm not too concerned or too upset about you know property damage accidents, more about bad accidents where someone doesn't make it home.

Correct.

And so how again, how does this compare to other to other intersections?

I mean, are we seeing are we seeing more severe type accidents, other intersections, or are they all not too terribly severe, just there's a lot of them?

Uh so we we try to stay on top of this on a monthly basis, see where the most dangerous intersections are within the city.

And um 163 and grand is taking the reins.

And um 163 and grand is taking the reins um ever since we've adopted Grand Avenue from a PD perspective.

Uh Bell and Lichfield is always either second or third.

So and when you look at the Prosada Waddell area, that's another one that's on the you know, typically on top.

And then uh we're just talking fenderbenders, we're not talking people hurt.

Uh so yeah, so Bell Bell and Lichfield, 1630 grand, those are the more significant accidents that we're seeing.

And so I mean you're looking at the statistics.

It looks like we've got 30 possible injuries over the past five years at Lichfield and that sounds low.

Yeah, so I haven't looked at these stats.

I don't know exactly where these come from.

And so uh when we run uh when we do our crash reports, submit them to ADOT.

We I'd have to look at our stats that we that we're able to obtain through our crash reports.

Okay.

And so yeah, and and if you'd like to see something like that, I'm happy to get a lot of things.

I would absolutely okay.

Thank you.

Yep.

And these uh the study area crashes were pulled by our consultant, and I'm I don't know which exactly database that they use them from, but uh we can get with Chief and make sure that we're we're talking the same language on that.

Uh another thing that uh Councilmember Greenberg asked me to kind of give is just a quick uh rundown on sign education, uh color, shape, and sizes matter.

Um so really we have four main types of signs.

Those are regulatory signs, uh, those are uh the signs where our our lovely PD folks can write you a written note of encouragement to make sure that you're following those signs.

Um our warning signs, you know, are yellow mainly.

They allow you to say, hey, watch out, there's a curve ahead here, slow your speed down.

Uh we have temporary traffic control signs, which are normally orange, white, and black.

Uh, you know, they consist of diamonds and rectangles, uh, and then we have guide and other signs, which you know can be various other different colors green, brown, black, white.

Um, you know, those are normally squares and rectangles.

They tell you where to go, how do you get to here?

Here's a main point of interest.

So um sign sizes kind of vary.

We have template sizes that we have.

Everyone has a template size in the city.

You know, ours are much different than what you have on highways.

Highways are much larger.

Uh usually it's the rate of speed that determines how big a sign needs to be.

So on the highway, you're going very high rate of speed.

You have a much larger sign, so you can read it, you can see it farther ahead because of those speeds.

Our local roads are much smaller than the highway signs, but uh they're all based on on speed on the roadway and of what those sizes are.

So council member Greenberg, do you want to you want to kind of give them a give them a show and tell on uh what we're looking at here?

Hell, there we go.

There's already the scale.

That is to scale.

So that is a 36 by 36 uh information.

I know it looks big here.

What's the size of the ones that are up there right now?

Two by four feet.

Uh yeah, dude.

They're their size of a right turn sign, so they're like uh, you know, 12 by 12 by 24, something like that.

Hopefully that's a turn a few and a ten of people from the polls.

No, this this is going in the medians.

Oh, that's a little large again on the traffic traffic mast arms.

Um, but it's hopefully going to gather some attention uh, you know, as you approach those intersections.

How far back from the intersections will we be placed?

Um so um, and I'll kind of get you there.

There's um we're looking at mayor um at least at the start of the turn bay.

That's where we're the ideal place to get it.

So as you're approaching to get into the turn bay, this is the first thing that you see.

Um so like I said, uh get into the flashing yellow arrow PSA campaign.

Uh we're gonna have implementation of informational signage as you've seen uh up there to kind of increase driver awareness uh at various locations.

Uh the intersections were chos based on the following criteria left turn crash history, uh intersection configuration operation, and then kind of site visibility and just overall traffic volumes.

Uh we're also going to utilize our dynamic message boards to uh put out the message as well.

So we have eight of those along Bell Road.

Um the message won't get on all of them.

So I think we're gonna get six out of the eight uh to kind of help raise the awareness on the variable message boards.

Um and then council member Greenberg, as he said, uh there'll be a public safety awareness video and social media.

Uh press releases going out tomorrow.

Uh video is dropping tomorrow.

Uh I got you, Virginia.

Um, so kind of I think my next one is uh sign locations.

Uh so here's the top 10 intersections that we identified that were uh possible for that.

So you can see those blue dots on that map uh kind of cover it.

We're really blanketing Bell Road for making sure that this has happened.

Well uh, you know, I think eight out of our 10 top top 10 intersections were along Bell Road.

Uh and then we're gonna kind of cover uh Reims Road heading down south.

Um I was pretty impressed that I think I got an uh informational sign in every single council district.

So you're all welcome.

Uh we we got one in every single one, uh, even yours, Councilmember Haney.

Um so I figured you'd like that.

Um so uh before I I get into the the worldwide premiere.

Uh I can't thank Virginia and her team enough.

Jacob, Sean, Muriel for for doing the sign, uh, our video guys for for making this thing.

Uh it was it was a blast.

Um, I think it's gonna do some good.

So is there anything you want to say about it before we launch into it?

Oh, only that I've uh met with uh Dr.

Croto from the superintendent of the schools, and he is going to blast this out to the uh high schools as well and make the video available, and we're gonna try to get these kids to make it go viral, even though they're not the cause of the majority of the accidents.

So with that, ready.

I wish I had like that movie voice, you know.

I just I don't have that.

So I'm hoping the sounds gonna work.

Yeah, me too.

So here we go.

Yo, pedal to the mellow, buddy.

You've got room.

Don't be a chicken.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm up here.

Yay, God all day.

Yes, you do.

You can wait it out.

There's no hurry.

But everybody behind you is in a hurry, and they're waiting on you.

So go.

Patience is a virtue and an important one on the road.

Nobody will get where they need to go if drivers are not patient.

It doesn't say go on flashing yellow.

It says yield on flashing yellow.

You've yielded long enough.

Now go, go, go.

Wait, did you even check for pedestrians?

You need to take in everything on the road before making that turn.

Guys, guys, I've got this.

So you you may notice.

Yeah.

There's a few, there's a few uh movie stars.

Uh, you know, uh, our our one Mike Hoover uh stars in the video.

I didn't know he's not here.

What a handsome devil that man.

Uh my own Jen Hensley is the starring as the angel out of transportation, and then uh Sean is actually the the driver of the car.

So this is truly homegrown effort uh uh for this PSA campaign.

So Councilman Melton.

Why is Mike Hoover's the hero in that episode?

Why is he depicted as the devil?

Um Mayor, Councilmember Melton.

I don't know if I can comment on that.

All right.

Um councilman Duffy.

Thank you, Mayor.

Eric, thank you for this.

And I'm gonna kind of go on about Councilman Jets.

I want to see the accident report because I would bet Waddell and Cerevil is catching up.

So I don't know.

Do you look when these accidents happen?

Do you watch how they're done?

Are they mostly because of flashing yellow?

Or is it that intersection is where everyone's doing new turns to try to get back to the 303.

Correct.

So I'm not sure.

I'll let she, I know Chief Moners those a little bit more in depth than I do.

So it just seems they're not fender vendors.

It seems like there's always a car rolled over.

Yeah, so the the failure to yield on the left turns, that's where you're gonna see more of your significant accidents.

And so it like you said, uh I'll give you an in-depth report, um, some of the major intersections that we have in the city.

And I'm sure you're right.

Waddell Cervole is probably gonna be up there.

Um, like I said, with with the Persada development, there's just more traffic on Waddell.

And so um, but yeah, those intersections there are definitely creeping into the the top 10 that we have for sure.

Okay, and probably Reams and Waddell too.

I would there was one last night.

Yep.

And they all look to be the same.

There's a car rolled in that same spot.

So I would assume it's because of the flesh, but I'm not sure.

So I didn't know if you look and see if what's the real reason for them.

Yeah, so we do go over.

So, like I said, um, on uh the monthly, if not quarterly, and uh the quarterly basis as well.

We go over these the traffic accidents that we're seeing, the traffic concerns that the citizens have, and then we tried to develop plan of action for that, and so we get our motor units out there and in uh direct patrols from the patrol officers trying to mitigate some of those issues.

And so a lot of times too, the more minor accidents that you're not seeing, like the rear ends, the fender benders, like we're we're able to pull uh those vehicles off of the roadway, pull them into a shopping center.

So you're not typically gonna see a lot of those the minor accidents, and so the the major ones you are gonna see as you're driving by for sure.

Yeah, I thought that was all I was seeing.

I was like, why can't everyone's rolling over?

Right.

What happened to Fender Vendors is what I was asking.

Right.

We yeah, so pulling off the roadway a lot of the times that uh yeah, well, we're able to get that out of eyesight pretty quick.

Okay.

So you'll send us whenever you can.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I'll I'll send you guys something, and then if uh if it's not comprehensive enough, then we'll we'll keep moving until it's something that that works for you.

All right, thank you.

You got it.

Councilman Greenberg.

Yeah, thanks, Mayor.

I just want to point out during the uh process of this whole thing.

I was about a heartbeat away from being one of those statistics at uh Bell and Sunrise.

I waited for the flashing yellow to turn red before I started to go, and a pickup came probably like 60 miles an hour blowing the red light through the other direction.

So it was just it's it's scary.

I mean, there's people out are just not paying attention.

So thank you guys for everything that you did on this.

Putting up with me.

That's all.

Nice mayor.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just want to thank Councilman Greenberg.

I mean, this is a huge thing.

I know for a long time in front of Sun Village, which I know Councilman Melton represents now, but like the the U-turns, you know, too, and like in front of you know, in and out and stuff on the blinking lights and everything.

But um, those signs are awesome.

That that video is great.

I guess to sum up kind of everything I said today, the biggest thing is, you know, and I was I was thinking about what Councilman Judd said, and I think we were referencing accident statistics.

We had a work session, I think it was was it last year on like just kind of Bell Road and Bell and Reams and Bell and Letchfield and Bell and Lichfield was up there in accidents and 163rd in grand.

Sorry, I'm pointing to you.

Um 163rd in grand um was it was up there, but also Bell and Reams.

And so I guess it's income on us to make sure that whatever change is made, especially if millions of dollars are being spent, you know, that it's going to be better.

You know, and so I would I'm curious to see too, and I know you probably don't know offhand, but the changes we made to Bell and Reams are almost identical to what we're doing at Bell and Listfield, like and uh you know, do the numbers kind of support that because I know Chris drives by something you know he didn't vote for, you know, every day, which is the the bullard, you know, stuff.

And obviously that started with a you know a good good reason, but obviously it went a different way and everything.

So, anyways, just my last two cents.

So thank you.

That's a good point.

No, absolutely good job, uh, Councilman Greenberg.

You know, it's um anything we can do to keep our city safe, our residents safer.

You know, Eric to your team, chief, everybody.

I mean, we have a great city staff to support some of our council ideas, and I think this one was uh a good one, and hopefully we'll save some lights.

Yeah, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

Move to adjourn.

Second, it's been moved and seconds.

All in favor, aye.

All opposed, no.

We're adjourned.