That's not BZA in us.

That's not us.

I thought it was in a correction thing.

He said enough.

Yeah.

Oh, we got holes at 11.

What we got at one?

Oh.

What we got?

We got one class.

Which one is it?

We took it off.

We took it off.

Yeah.

But we got 12.

Office of the situation.

Good morning, everybody.

I just hot mic.

It's 11 a.m.

So we will get started with our budget hearing for the Department of Code Enforcement.

I'm joined today with by Councillor Hudson, Councilor Nave, Councillor Caldwell, Councillor Jones Rouser, President Paniagua, City Clerk sitting back over there, Jake Dishau, Michael Collins.

So whichever one of you wants to start off.

That's roll.

Sure.

I'll kick it off and then turn it over to Jake.

So uh Michael Collins, Commissioner for the Department of Neighborhood and Business Development.

We have three budgets.

Last week we did the budget hearing for the planning sustainability budget, uh the uh neighborhood and business development proper budget.

Uh this is the largest of the three budgets, so this is this is code enforcement.

So I just want to recognize uh along with Jake, we've got Ryan uh Ryan Shield, our director of code enforcement, Bill McCann, our assistant director of code enforcement.

I see um uh Jessica Brandt and Terry Bliss are uh directors and assistant director for permitting um and then Michelle Sapansky, our uh deputy commissioner neighborhood development and our amazing budget team that keeps us looking organized with everything we've got in front of you guys.

So uh a big thanks to all of them for being here, but also their work throughout the year.

Um and with that, I'm gonna turn it over to Jake and we'll walk through uh walk through the budget and be able to uh do our best to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you, Michael.

Um good morning, everybody on the council.

Um I'm gonna skip some of the stuff that uh we spoke in depth about at our committee meeting like a week and a half, two weeks ago, but um I'm gonna kind of just jump right into the budget, but if there's anything else that uh you want to stop me on at any time, uh feel free.

So um going through the budget, our positions are fairly flat compared to last year.

Uh if you look at our uh CSEA union positions, uh there's one additional one, but that's kind of it's really not a new one because we added a position was on Surah Um for a specific reason for a plans examiner.

So it's showing plans examiner two going from six to seven positions, but that was in the Surah line last year, and it's back in the city CSEA line this year.

Um so it's really the same, even though the numbers slightly different.

Uh our temp services, that's our summer crew.

Um for those that have listened to me talk uh enough at these over the years.

That's where I started as a high school student throughout college.

Um and have remained since.

Um and they do grass mowing uh and they help with miscellaneous projects uh throughout the summer.

It's typically high school and college aged uh students uh working those positions.

Um continuing down going into Surah, that's also relatively the same.

Um it's actually two less than last year.

Um there were uh a couple of changes.

Um we have the need to add a garage uh inspector, commercial parking garage inspector.

Um just due to the oversight that parking garage is required by state law, um, and due to the conditions of our parking garages citywide, um that is a critical position that we need a certified code officer um in functioning uh to oversee those structures.

Um the other new one um question, sorry.

Yeah, these are just these are the Surah positions within the division of code enforcement.

Um it's 52 of those, right?

Uh uh 24.

20 22.

Twenty-two for the uh Sura positions.

Well I have okay, because I'm looking at the Sura list, and I'm I count at 50.

So there's 51 uh 51 city and 22 Surah, and then we've got some 10 positions, so a total of 85, one less than last year.

So it's 22 Sura, you said correct.

Does that count?

I'm counting on this list, and then we're getting 52.

So uh does that include other uh neighborhood in business development positions, perhaps um assistant uh director of zoning, Led Paint, administrator, director of zoning, assistant director of code enforcement, project manager.

Yeah, so those are code enforcement ones.

Okay, yeah.

And over here, I'm getting administrative office, uh deputy director of code enforcement, permit constituent.

I'm getting all those are all under codes, right?

Those are all under code.

I think you're talking to the mic, I can't hear you.

I'm sorry.

So those are all under codes.

Those are, yeah.

Right.

So I don't I he said 22, but I'm counting 50 to I so uh I can go over that.

Uh I can go over that list with you and we can see where the discrepancy is.

Okay.

Yeah, happy to do that.

Unless I miscount it, but I think I can count it.

I you you've been good at it for all the years you and I have known each other.

So you only so you have 52 city 20 based on what you think 22, sir, right?

Uh 51 and 22, yes, and then some temp positions.

Okay.

Um, Jake.

The elevator inspectors.

Do we have specific ones on our payroll no payroll, but third party contract then?

Um we have a third-party contract elevator reviewer for um modernized uh elevators and new elevators.

But so when you have an elevator, you have to have an elevator company that does your service on contract, and then you have to have a separate inspector as well.

Um those elevators have to be certified uh twice a year.

So you have to come in with your report from your elevator inspection company and saying, I need my elevator certified, and here's my clean report.

Um so those have to be done twice annually through the permit office uh per elevator cart.

How many elevator companies are local?

Oh goodness, uh there's a handful.

Um I can get you a list after this if you like uh on specifics, but there are a number of them locally and a number of elevator companies that do repair work and installations uh via permit uh through the cities.

I'll call it elevator code, but it's all it's it's technically called something different.

Like um and uh so they're the ones that get the permits to actually do the work to fix them, repair them, install new ones, etc.

Then there's a uh bunch of um companies as well that do inspections only.

Uh and we do have an elevator board.

Um the city has one, so um we have a board office and board coordinator uh position.

She works with the director of codes and myself um in other uh positions within the city, like fire fire prevention gets involved um with this, and we meet with that board.

Um, and they basically have oversight over the elevator mechanics and the people that are doing the repairs and the work uh etc.

Okay.

Sorry, I'll follow up with your so Jake to the numbers.

You're pretty flat up here for the most part, except for professional services.

That is the third can you talk about the third party review money?

Yes.

Um what page are you looking on?

Just uh 113.

So that 545 over the 295, that's the 250 plus for the third party.

Uh 541 uh 541,500.

Oh, yes, yes.

Um, so last year, as you recall, we we made a reduction um from a planned 500,000 commitment to third party building permit review, reduce it to 250.

We're asking that this be put back into the budget for a number of reasons.

Um, you know, we're seeing record volume and permits, record uh construction valuation, so the amount of money being spent on construction in the city is at all-time high.

We broke an all-time high in 2022, 2024, and last year in 2025 at over 430 million uh in construction um dollars spent in the city of Syracuse.

And in Q1 so far of this year, we're already at uh 100 million, so we're on pace to be somewhere around that 400 million dollar mark or more uh again.

Uh there's just a lot of investment here.

Plan review is critical to the safety of projects, and we found tremendous success.

The most successful in my time trying to uh get better at doing plan review and quicker, but also not sacrificing the safety component side of it by working with five uh city qualified firms um that are doing these reviews, and we just they're an extension of the permit office instead of being a full-time uh employee uh with salary in fringe, they are paid hourly uh through an RFQ.

Instead of being a full-time uh employee uh with salary infringed, they are paid hourly uh through an RFQ.

Uh a couple of you are on that committee, I believe.

Um, and that's how we assign those projects.

They're just instead of a staffer in my office, they're just at a uh uh company here that does it for us.

Can you kind of give us an example of why it's faster?

So I'll say this.

What prior to this?

We could if you submitted your permit application and it was complete, it took us weeks before we could even get eyes on it.

Projects now are getting eyes on them the same day or the next day once we assign them.

And we have uh we have an SLA agreement with these firms, two-week turnaround for initial review and re-reviews.

Now, sometimes it does take a few cycles, but it's quicker than ever before.

I mean, it used to take weeks and weeks, if not months and months, now it's down to days and weeks.

Um it's been something that I've been passionately working on with the rest of our team since 2018.

Um, and I'm proud to sit here today and say it's the best it's ever been.

How much volume are we talking about, Jay?

In terms of um increase.

Well, overall, we issue about 4,000 permits total a year.

Okay.

Um so since we took on the uh external and how much how much has that increase?

I so you're you you're thinking like what the with the total increase in in value is or the total.

In volume.

In in volume.

Yes.

Well, what so what the third party plan review is doing is they're they're reviewing the large commercial building permit projects.

So we still have staff doing smaller uh, you know, residential projects, fence, decks, driveways, ramps, uh, small additions.

We're actually even doing uh single family houses, but we may use third-party review when we see we're expecting you know up to possibly a hundred new single um residential homes this year.

Um and if we're getting all those at the same time, we may third party those ones out.

But I'm talking the big large economic development commercial projects citywide.

Um that these are the ones that we're assigning third party to.

And we do have I do have some numbers on um volume of those here.

If you give me a second, but um hundreds.

They've done hundreds of them.

And what's what I'm trying to get at while you look at that, Jake, is say we with the regular reviewers, we added 250,000, right?

How much of that 250,000 because of the land reviewers has increased our value.

So what while Jake's looking at up, one of so uh the commercial projects are the uh most uh detailed and therefore you need the most amount of experience.

We've gone from two people uh that are qualified to do that to one.

We've been trying to hire for a couple of years, if not uh we just we can't pay what the private market can for that.

So we have not had success in building the internal capacity.

Uh in basically the third-party review is what's allowed us to make sure that we can largely stay open for business for this type of work.

Um what we've seen is that commercial projects have grown in size uh in in the past few years.

Uh that your your biggest indicator of that is the number of cranes that are up in the sky right now.

Uh because every anytime you see a crane, you know that's a project that took well with one, I think they're all over a hundred million dollar projects.

Um the intricacies of the um of the design uh just take a significant effort to be able to review, and with one qualified person to do that, we we simply can't.

Hey Doc, go ahead.

Wait, that did not answer my question.

Yeah, I I was I was buying time for Jake.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um I didn't even see him sneaking.

He always is coming.

So I think where we're finding value is they're being done quicker, and there is some cost, obviously coming out of what we're budgeting, but we're also saving time and increasing the positive value that we're getting in return on projects starting sooner.

Um these would take four times as long if we didn't have the five times as long if we didn't have these reviewers.

But um since 2020 24-25, we've done 105 uh large commercial economic development projects that have been third party.

Those are 105 projects.

If we didn't have these firms, they would have been in queue with our internal staff.

And I don't know, I I don't even want to think about how long it would have taken to get approved and issued to get shovels in the ground to get workers started to get projects completed to get local business owners open and operating.

We we I mean honestly, we would not have approved 105.

We would have approved a fraction of that.

So I guess my question is yes, 105.

That's fantastic.

What was it before the 250 was added?

What was that?

That I think we might have to look up the the um the point simply being we can't perform the quad, we cannot in-house perform the quantity of work that we're receiving.

I mean, I guess to answer the question, it was zero before because we weren't sending any third party, we had to keep them all in-house, and they were taking five times as long because the volume, um the sheer volume alone.

Um I'm trying to answer your question.

I'm just I'll pass.

I mean, if you just look at the large-scale projects that are all happening at the same time, it makes sense that you would not have enough people to do what we need done while com stock's happening, SDC's happening, park side's about to happen.

Like there's a long list of like ever moving targets all over the city, right?

So yeah, and the the plan reviewer position is very skilled and technical position.

Um we I'll be honest, we have struggled to hire and retain for it uh from time to time.

Um we're not alone in in this sort of method with third party reviews.

Um, this is starting to happen more and more statewide and definitely nationally.

Um, as the field of code enforcement is seeing a lot of people retire and not enough new people come into the profession.

The um go ahead.

Sorry.

I have two questions.

The director of zoning.

Is that filled?

Or because I think online it's not.

Um, so it is as of today.

Um our director of zoning uh is resigning to move back to China.

And so I it's a bit abnormal, but I requested that it post before his last day because it's a critical position for our our city.

And and he was okay with that.

Uh it wasn't something I did without his approval or uh awareness.

That not Z Tong.

It is Zetong, yes.

Yes, yeah, we're we're we're all very sad.

He's an amazing person and an amazing asset.

Okay.

Uh but yeah, his last day is tomorrow.

Why is it vacant on here?

It shouldn't be.

Well, it's not vacant out here.

It's vacant on this.

Oh, maybe that's where I saw it at.

I know I saw it, it was zeroed out somewhere.

Yeah, uh, so that may have been printed after his resignation was received, perhaps.

Yeah.

Um, we'd have to take a look.

All right, my next question is um, it's not a question, it's more of a statement.

Your postage um line is 450 dollars.

I don't think you're sending out enough postage.

And and I'm just saying that because we hear the murmuring about individuals who aren't being notified early enough when there is something at the Board of Zoning Appeals or CPC.

Um that's you know, and then the 200 foot stuff.

Okay, that needs that needs, I don't know.

We that needs to be so um I want to just indicate that this postage is separate from like we try to merge postage into city hall, so a lot of stuff gets brought here and is sent out.

Um there's kind of two different noticing requirements that you brought up.

I'll speak to violations first.

By law, we are totally mail based on notice of violation.

So notice of violation has to be mailed to the owner of record, and one has to be posted at the property that's subject to the violation.

Outside of that, for noticing of public hearings, also very strict and regulated requirements within a certain uh number of feet to the owners within the site.

Um and we we we follow the advertising and the noticing on site, but also the mailing postcards.

But um, I hear you.

Um I mean, I guess the main thing is like sometime they go out on either a Thursday or Friday, and being that it's the weekend, people aren't getting it in enough time.

So I don't know how that can be changed, but that needs to be looked at.

Okay.

That you know, maybe Wednesday being the latest date for for it to be sent.

Right.

Understood.

Um, we will look into that and see what can be done differently in the process.

Yeah, no, it's online, but everything's not online.

I will say this.

Um on top of all that, and I know I don't know how much technology discussions the council is having, but uh I do feel like there's a critical need for a customer relationship management system citywide that can kind of handle these things, auto text alerts, auto email alerts.

Um that's all separate.

I'm not trying to get off tangent, but a system like that can handle these sorts of things so we can have better communication with our residents and constituents.

So maybe a shameless plug for investing in that.

But there's a Vinny.

No, no Vinny.

Okay.

No Vinny.

But anyway, uh my point of bringing that up is like if something if we had something like that, we could do far better outreach and comms to residents on shorter notice for these things, like oh, we have this site here at this specific location.

We need to get in touch with these people in this specific radius.

Yeah.

Um we're kind of doing it old school for lack of a better term right now.

It's um Jake, let me ask you a quick question.

So going back to the revenue summary, which is on page 32.

I I and I may be wrong to ask this, but just you know, listen.

So in line 42,5500 building and property permits.

Are those the permits for construction on that we do around the city, the different sites and things like that?

Oh, yes.

That would be that because you you propose a 4,250.

I think that's uh kind of a low number for that line when we have uh projects that we know should be paying probably that already or more.

So I mean, how do you how do you come to that number?

I'll say this.

Over the years it's been it's a little bit of combination of uh art and science.

Like it's very hard to predict exactly how many projects are actually gonna submit for building permitting application and payment.

Um historically, uh I mean it is an increase, it's been a slight increase over the years.

Um we very well could come in a couple hundred thousand more than that.

We it could be a couple hundred thousand less.

Sometimes, especially towards the end of the year, when a project hits, is it gonna hit before the year ends, or is it gonna get delayed slightly uh you know, into the following year?

Um, but it's really working with the budget office, kind of going through what what projects we know are coming.

Um if a project I'm sorry to interrupt, if a project is not finished in the in the fiscal year, then the revenue goes into the next.

If they don't get the still be the same project, yeah, like so.

If I'm getting a permit towards the end of, let's say in Q4, but it goes into Q1 of the next year, it doesn't hit on that year.

So does that make sense?

I so I can give two examples, right?

So the I mean it does, but I wish we could have a higher number.

I it and it absolutely may end up being a higher number.

Like we we've got a couple projects that are large scale projects that uh the there was initial hope from the developer to close in June.

And for one of them, the uh the developer uh the the funder was saying they want to close in early July.

So for us, that's a different fiscal year, and they're not gonna pay for the permit until uh until they're closed on the financing, and then we've got it and we've got another one that's in a similar position that's just been pushed out a little bit more.

So that they're bigger projects, but they're just gonna hit a different fiscal year than what was originally projected.

So does the money from let me just use an example off the top of my head, a long-term street closure, does that money hit your budget?

Or would that go to DPW?

Like DPW.

Okay, so the current stock project would not be in your line.

No, these are strict building permit fees.

Okay.

Um what I what I do want, and I think I let there's a difference there.

Yeah, there is a difference.

What I do want to let the council know is that we are um getting ready to propose a new fee schedule, and we'll be working with you to look through that.

Um the plan was to hopefully align it with the start of the fiscal year, but we haven't adjusted our building permit fee schedule since 1996.

So uh we want you to we'll start to do engagement with you all and and um get that in front of you to get your thoughts and ideas.

But Jake, inside that engagement, are we gonna look at other like-sized cities to see what's the case?

Absolutely, and that's our that's what we've been doing right now with staff.

We've been working with API and our permit staff to do that, identify best practices, look at um locations nearby, but also other locations, you know, cities uh across the state, um, our neighboring cities.

But the other thing I want to add is that um we will be adding zoning fees.

Currently, right now we do not have any.

Okay.

Um although that might not it might not be millions like in the building permit fees, it will be you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in potential revenue.

Well, that's where you start.

Absolutely.

So um first step was getting the code off the ground and getting our staff uh up off the ground, and but now we want to add fees um to the hard work and you know, time it takes to review these substantial special use permits and or uh site plan reviews, variances, resubdivisions.

There's a lot of work that goes into that that we should be covering uh our basic costs on.

Jake, I got a uh question um regarding uh rental registry, right?

So how first of all, how are we going?

How are we doing so far with that?

Um in like compliance uh rates, you mean so we I'll pull it up right here.

I got specifics, but we've hovered around the 50 50 percent compliance mark.

Um and a lot of that has to do with um owners just or scoff at what the requirement is.

Um I think that's gonna change a little bit.

Um one reason being BAA fines and penalties will now roll on to taxes, uh, which by the way, I do want to talk about that because uh if it hasn't been updated to you already in budget hearings, um, I think it's important that it's recognized that code enforcement is a huge part in BA fines and penalties because without our codes inspectors issuing violations and then issuing tickets, that revenue does not happen.

Like we need the codes inspectors to issue codes violations and then BA tickets after that, if we don't get compliance, um, but all that is responsible for $500,000 in payments and $500,000 in rollover on the taxes.

That's a million dollars in revenue that is not showing up on this paper.

But this code enforcement team is definitely responsible for a large bulk of that number, and and that should be recognized and noted.

Absolutely, absolutely.

One of the questions um um the compliance, how are we doing with uh which I just found that out the a couple days?

The question I'm gonna ask you is that if a tenant doesn't allow the landlord in, they can't get rental registry.

So say I'm not allowing you into the building um or into my house, I'm like, no, no, no, and codes keep coming.

What do you guys do on that on that situation?

Well, we see it both ways.

We've seen um tenants that uh there's you know, tenant landlord dispute where we can't get access, and then there's also times where the the landlord is kind of the holdup.

Um we try to be consistent and and connect people uh with tenant rights advocates with volunteer lawyers to help with situations like that, but we will document it on both ends.

Sometimes we'll document that the tenant is not letting the owner in to do repairs, and other times we'll document that the owner's doing nothing to try to make attempts to do the inspection or do the repairs, so it can go both ways.

Um a lot of times we're putting that information in our cases and it's being used um in.

Have you heard of the tenant 7D filings in city court?

So these tenants and the landlord pro uh or sorry, lawyer volunteer lawyer projects are helping get these cases, and a lot of times our our testimony and our casework and our notes on that is very helpful in that.

But um, I'm looking to further strengthen that connection and communication with the court to assist with those matters because it's a difficult situation for our our our inspectors to be in.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

You know, we and a lot of times it's it's a human kind of uh interaction between the tenant and landlord, and we're stuck in the middle.

But our job is to document uh violations, especially health and safety violations, definitely those need to be cited, and and um regardless of what's going on between the tenant, we have our job and our responsibility is to cure that violation somehow.

So um those are some of the things that we'll do.

We will also involve our community ambassadors a lot of times to help with engagement and communications efforts.

It doesn't always mean uh a successful outcome.

Um, but like I said, I think the ultimate outcome is going to court and then court kind of ordering.

Um I will say this.

We also have a separate pathway inside through administrative warrants, uh, and that's through corporation council.

It's spelled out within our rental registry ordinance within the Syracuse Property Conservation Code.

Uh, we have to follow that exactly, and we have gotten a large number of those warrants to get inside.

Um the law department doesn't have the resources to do the volume of warrants that I would need to up that percentage from 50 percent to let's say 85 percent, 90 percent.

Yeah, that to that point uh the rental registry the increase in rental registry participation at this point is uh is is gonna be most heavily influenced by how well resourced uh corporation council offices.

Yeah, I just see that um it puts the code um inspectors in a hard place, but also it can put the tenant or the landlord in a hard place if a person won't let you in, yeah.

But then the city is still finding you for something that you can't, you know, do and then you have to wait to the courts, and then there's there's so many layers that prevent either direction to move forward, right?

And then they have to have they have to be registry, but it means everyone has to agree in order to work.

That's that's the problem.

Like we are the middle people, but everybody left and right have to agree to make it work.

And if anybody from either side disagree, it doesn't, it doesn't move forward.

It can get complicated.

Yeah.

And we the the financial punitive, so the financial uh fees for not registering on for not getting on the registry.

We don't chase those currently, correct?

Uh no, uh, we do issue BA fines and penalties, but I that's another thing I'd like to work with the council on.

I think our low end of BA fines and penalties is too low for failure to apply and obtain, for example.

A lot of times it can be a lot, it it's substantially cheaper than doing a expensive code repair and pay the inspection fee.

A lot of times we'll just see landlords continue to pay the low fine amount.

Why do a $10,000 repair and a $150 application if I can just pay a $75 fine every every couple months and um so that's where the warrant comes in?

I I want to go backing off the money part of it, the most important part to me in the position that I serve in is 60% of our population rents.

Like we need to do the actual inspection.

Like I don't even care about the money.

I do, but that's like secondary to the health and safety of our residents.

Most of our fires that are happening are in residential one and two family homes.

They're not in the big buildings that have sprinklers and fire alarms.

I mean, some of them are, but most of them are are wood framed older one-family, two-family houses.

Like these are the houses we need to get inside on.

Um, you know, the 150 dollar cost, we could talk about that too.

It's 150 every three years.

Um $50 a year for a one-family uh per the unit.

I mean, so that I don't think it's a high cost for owners to commit to.

Um we could look at that, but the the important part is we need to get inside to do these safety inspections, and beyond the fire safety side, lead, lead paint.

Most of these houses have lead paint issues.

Like we need to get inside and do the lead hazard control inspection and make sure that we're getting clearance every three years.

That's why it's it's critical.

Like rental registry will drive all of that.

Um so I'd really like to work with you to see what we could do to um bolster efforts all the way around, whether it's BA fines and fees, which by the way, doesn't mean you get that right off the bat, too.

Like to even make it to the BAA, like you have to be weeks and months like out of compliance.

Like we've already tried to call you, talk with you, mail you multiple letters, mail you warning letters, then you get the BA ticket, then you still have time to respond to that.

Like by the time you default on a BA ticket, like you've just ignored everything.

Um, so I don't want to, you know, not trying to be mean to our people that get tickets and get default orders, but like they have chances to respond and work with us um and get their inspections and to get into compliance.

And and Counselor Caldwell, to your point, the uh as Jake says, it takes a long time to get to the BAA, which is where the fine would be involved.

And even then you've got your chance in front of an administrative law judge to make your case.

So uh if you've if you've if you're the the person in that situation on either side, well, in the in this case it would be on the the owner side.

Uh if if you've documented the situation and you're have have been able to show that you are otherwise in good standing, you probably have a pretty good shot with the administrative law judge.

It's not more of the fine part, it was more of the situation how codes are in the in between the middle of the owner and the tenant, and they really have no jurisdiction to do either way.

All they can say is, can you let me in?

There's nothing that makes them make a person have to come in.

You know what I mean?

So that's the part was more of a got it concern.

Yeah.

Um the warrant does allow us to get in, but umce we can do so and substantiate violations too, like we have emergency repair program for certain things.

So like if a tenant's having an issue with heat, um sewage backups, like major issues that would displace them or make the the unit unfit, like we have ability to repair those things on a small scale.

Like we can't do every violation that is ever that we ever find.

But I want to get back to quickly to the revenue part of it.

Like we're almost self-sustaining.

Um, you know, we're projecting about 5.6 million in expenses for the um FY26 ending uh with a revenue projection of about 5.3.

So we're we're almost there.

Like if we adjust our fees a little bit, get some different, you know, and next year we're projecting 5.4 plus in revenue and you know, 5.9 in expenses.

Like if we we adjust our permit fee schedule, if we adjust BA fines, we're not even getting credit for any of that revenue.

That's a whole separate story.

But um, if we do all this stuff at zoning fees, like we're we're right there.

Like, how many departments come before you and can say, you know, we're almost bringing in as much revenue as as we cost to operate.

Um we might be the only one.

Commissioner, all right.

I want to go over uh the position details in Sura.

And I just want to go over this.

Um lead paint office administrator, lead paid program, coordinator, administrative coordinator, uh planner two eliminated, and then we have a garage inspector and administration, you're adding.

So I just want to get some detail.

Yep.

Now a garage inspector, can a housing inspector do that, or is that separate?

It's gonna be a commercial building inspector.

These are large-scale structures that need somebody with more ex more technical experience.

And the lead paint, is that going into another budget or is that being eliminated?

Yeah, the two lead positions are going on to a uh being funded by a grant.

So that's why they're coming off the code's budget.

I want to be clear, like if some reason like we don't have the grant years down the road, like I'll be coming back to you saying we need to put this back in the code's budget.

Like so um, but for now we've got funds through grants to support this, and they can come off the city budget.

So administrative coordinator and a planner two is that going into a planner budget?

So the planner two, I spoke about that earlier, why there was an increase on the CSEA city line.

Okay, is because that planner, that planner plans two position got moved to the CSEA.

That's why the that city line number is one up from last year.

That's what I was talking about.

And the administrative coordinator, um, that was replaced with the office administrator, I believe.

Ryan, is that right?

Or administrative supervisor, excuse me.

Um so it we had a retirement that carried that title historically, and we created a new title to kind of support our needs um better.

Um, so it's kind of an offset there.

Okay, so I'm looking in your budget.

Um, and I see where you might need one.

Is there anything in your department where you're lacking that you're in need of?

I can I want to mention it now.

What do we have?

I get it now.

I can have a big wide open question.

Yeah, I think I spoke about it at our last committee meeting, and I'll be kind of general, but the need, in my opinion, if you want to bolster and strengthen code enforcement anywhere, is a combination of we we need boots on the ground doing the work.

So inspectors, um, we need the admin support to go with that, and then we need the legal counsel to then be the closer.

So it's a combination of those three things.

Um, if you want to invest in code enforcement, that's where I would invest anywhere.

That's what I would tell any city across America where they need to spend their money.

So, like when you have an emergency demo like Beto, they mean there, and then uh you're also having situations within the law department where people are just shop opening up, like we see in the north side, popping up without licensing and let goes bits.

In the last two years, uh, with great support from Syracuse Police and uh fire prevention through Chief Calburn and his team of fire marshals with Ryan's leadership and our inspectors, and we've closed a lot of bad places that have impacted neighborhoods.

Um no doubt we've decreased crime uh by doing this work.

Um yeah, and the demolition work that you talked about.

Um we do have a budget for that.

It's in the special objects line, it's 750,000.

Primarily used for the residential fires that result in um properties and structures that just can't be saved, and we uh we have to do an evaluation and make a decision.

Uh we we we don't take that lightly.

It's a it's a difficult decision to say tear down somebody's property, but it it happens a dozen times or more a year.

And then the large ones, we come before you to we don't have it in the budget, so we have to come seek bond approval.

Um, and we've sadly we've had to do that more often than I would like the last couple years, but we've had some serious issues that as a city we we have to do that.

We have to protect the health and safety and welfare of our of our uh constituents.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, we so we do.

Um, and uh the on paper there's six, but uh what I will say is um we have the housing inspector, we have an ought somebody starting in two weeks, so that one will go away.

Um, and then for the plans examiners, I actually have three pending uh because plans examiners not only used in permits, it's used in zoning as well.

Um so I have so that would leave two.

We we would need one new person in um the permit office, and then uh one additional person in zoning, and it would fill all those vacancies.

Um besides the new ones on the Suraline, like the the garage inspector one is obviously new vacant, like we don't have that person yet.

But um all those positions on the SERA line are currently full with the names and people that you all reach out to for services weekly.

And you are emphasizing that you need uh an architect because there were people who would call me and said, here's a drawing, and why can't this report?

So you need an architect.

Well, I we have don't agree with that fully, but we had that discussion.

Yeah, there's kind of two.

And minor stuff is like paying uh architect seven to fifteen hundred dollars when you can it's just for nothing.

Yeah, so with building permits, there are specific requirements on when you need a professional engineer or registered architect based on if it's structural component and/or there's a specific dollar amount, believe it or not, uh as well.

That's a threshold.

Uh I think uh Counselor Jones Rouse, what you're talking about is if somebody just needs like a floor plan or a you know, uh show us how like we don't need a professional landscape to stamp something, but it does need to be to scale and it does need to show like how you're meeting the code.

So, like for instance, we worked with the gentleman uh with 5300 South Salina, and I believe he did that himself.

Like he didn't hire an architect, like, but it had to show the things that we needed it to show to substantiate compliance.

We didn't need him to go get a you know landscape architect to to do a plan.

That's really more for site work for building permits, um, and large scale site work and construction.

Um, but sometimes we do need uh prints for you know other zoning projects, but not always.

Quick question for you.

I'm looking at um page one, page 32.

So are you looking at the certificate of use to go down?

The actual is one of the things that we're gonna say.

Um a lot of that is based off a projection of it's a two-year requirement.

So every two years um is the need for that.

So if you kind of look at it over that span, they're kind of equal, like FY25 and 26.

Um, you know, somewhere around 300, same thing with FY26, 27, somewhere around 300,000 over a two-year span.

Unless we find new spaces, yeah, unless we get more more um businesses that uh trigger the need for one, correct.

Can I go back to the were you done?

Uh unless there's more questions.

Yeah, I was just curious because of what with the way things are popping up, I would think that we would have more certificates of use, not less.

Right.

So uh because of the two-year cycle, for whatever reason, they they right now the majority of the ones that are on renewal, uh they're not they're not distributed evenly over the two years.

Uh they they they fall into um uh the the even year.

Uh but as far as new goes, yeah.

I mean there's yeah, I think businesses fail at a rate of about 95% over five years.

So for so many of the new ones uh that are coming in, we do have others that those businesses are no longer there.

Okay.

In 2024, we had 326 total applications for certificate of use.

Uh 2025, um, we had calendar year 307.

Uh that's a significant increase from 2021, 22, and 23, where we were 125, 152, 135.

We've nearly tripled that number in 2024 and 2025.

We're getting an average now of about 25 applications per month.

Okay.

Can we go back to the um led uh project coordinator positions?

Because it's zeroed out in the in this one, but on this, it has the um like one eliminated, but then there's honeywell.

Yeah, so that position is in the uh the NBD budget, yeah, and it is grant funded.

Okay, but then the amounts are different.

Uh it is 100% grant funded, but is this the rate?

That's 20,000 different.

Oh, I think I'm low end of the range.

Probably 45 to 60.

Uh yeah, but oh okay.

The the former position that you might be looking at in the budget that's being zeroed out was a position that we didn't have filled.

Um and that's being eliminated.

So we have the new the Honeywell position coming in.

Um that's at a slightly different rate, right, Brian?

Okay.

So this is the same.

But I will say there's also been more requirements put on it.

Like he's been sent um to get his certifications and training, or prior to that, the office uh administrator didn't carry those um requirements, but both the the both positions in lead will carry the highest certification levels uh required by the state uh and by the feds, um, which is a lot of work to obtain.

Yeah, I mean it he let uh a week ago he was uh in Philadelphia uh for the HUD training uh next week, he's gonna be in uh Crystal City, Virginia uh again for uh what HUD is requiring to do.

So based on our um you know numbers of individuals dealing with lead paint issues, um water uh contaminants, um is this one project coordinator?

I know you have like the inspectors for it, um the other ones that was lead-based, but so I guess our housing all of our codes inspectors are the front line of lead violations when they're going out and doing their day-to-day inspections through rental registries, certificate of compliance.

Obviously, we deal with complaints as well, but that's where it comes from.

Our rental registry, of course, applies to all one and two family uh rentals.

A lot of them are in the high risk areas, as you know.

Um certificate of compliance is for three units and above.

So those also, when we're getting in those, um we're we're looking at it and identifying chipping and peeling paint.

So they're the front lines, but the they kind of for lead-related activity, they report all that to the lead coordinator and lead uh administrator to document all the things that we need for like clearance reports and testings and violations, uh support in the field uh on specific lead related.

So that's what those two positions are doing, but they're also driving the grant side.

So the they're involved with the violation side and finding what the problems are and saying, hey, by the way, like we can you can help if you have qual if you can qualify for it, we can get you a grant to then a bait this work.

So I guess my question is like you saying, like there's two people, what is their case load?

Like, is it they they have you know 30 people per week or so it's gonna it's gonna look different for the for the different positions?

So that's so there's the one as as Jake said, where since every specter is required to uh be able to do uh the uh the the lead inspections, that's all gonna go to one.

Yeah, the other one, Michelle's gonna speak to the uh lead grant, because that that is the other one that we've traditionally been successful with a one person in that position.

Uh Michelle Spianski, deputy commissioner of neighborhood development.

So uh the lead uh program coordinator is dealing uh specifically on the grant side, like Michael said, Um, we have about a hundred units uh over the lifecycle of the grant that we uh anticipate that we're gonna process with the funding that we have available, so that's kind of all phases of the process.

To Jake's point, uh the lead project uh coordinator manager uh that is in there, that position is uh supporting roles and responsibilities that are both required for the grant and then also significant components of our ordinance related functions.

So they're both kind of helping back and forth as needed for the various um uh rental certifications that are happening, but um I we feel like from kind of from a workload standpoint, uh they're they're where they need to be, and they're not necessarily in a position where they could uh take on more.

So um in just a little tip, I guess.

Um, because I know like when the inspections are happening, and I don't know if it's like based on New York State requirements, if it's like when just windows and doors per se.

Um but over time, just thinking about houses that I've that I've been to, I know that a lot of people have painted like handrails.

So I don't know, is that's not something that we inspect, is it?

Um so we we do, but there are certain thresholds for like the size of a chipping or peeling paint like on a wall, for example.

Yeah.

Um but we whether it's lead or not, we do cite all chipping and peeling paint violations.

So there's uh surface violation, but there's lead violations too.

Either way, that has to be taken care of in the correct manner.

Um, because all contractors are supposed to have the certification needed when they're doing that type of work, whether it's lead or not.

Um our ordinance, presuming the house is older in 1978 that it is, that it's already led.

So you have to deal with that in the in the correct manner.

So although it might not be directly cleared through a lead procedure, it is cleared through an inspection process with an inspector um as a uh you know surface violation um for chipping and peeling paint.

I and uh to the I think the other thing that we've left unsaid here is that for the uh those that are required to have the lead clearance, that's a third party that that that the property owner needs to submit that they've had uh the testing and that they've passed the testing.

So that's not uh the workload of the inspectors, the inspectors will cite it, but separately when you do a rental registry renewal, if you're in the areas uh that have the highest level of uh lead concentration, that's a third-party review.

Uh third-party uh uh testing.

Tester.

We're about three and a half years into active enforcement under the lead ordinance with code enforcement.

We've issued nearly 10,000 lead or deteriorated paint service violations at over 4,000 unique properties uh since implementation of the enforcement.

Um 80% of all cited violations have been addressed and closed.

Um obviously there's still a lot more work to be done.

But even with that, like addressed and closed is you know, depends on like what that might be.

Yeah, I mean, but to Michael's point, like we're not doing the testing or the clearance.

Like if I come in, if you're in the high risk area, you have to get third-party dust wipe testing, no matter what.

Even if I don't find, even from like counselor, your house is perfect, like there's no chipping or peeling paint anywhere.

If you're in the high risk area, yeah, you have to you know, so these are and then those reports, those clearance reports get sent into our lead office, and our lead hazard control office reviews those.

Um so I understand what you're saying, but like we've got multiple eyes on this.

There's there's the the inspector initially, then there's the testing agency, um, and then we follow up, then there's the contractor who does the work inspection with that, which by the way, this how we're proposing this in the budget and in conjunction with MBD, like we will be monitoring abatement work almost like a building permit.

Um, one to try to make those uh happen more efficiently, and two, so they're more we can monitor that work and make sure it's being done the right way.

So yeah, and I guess I probably should have rephrased that more, it's more or less that these are people who are compliant to the registration to the registry.

So if you're not compliant, then we're not we don't have eyes on those properties, and those are the ones that are slipping through the cracks.

Yeah, I mean, and I and I touched on it, and I've if we had if I had more attorneys to do more warrants, like we'd get in some of these homes and we do these tests and we'd require these inspections, like we're doing what we can to trust me, like if I could get it to 95, 99, 100%, like I'm working on every day.

We're working on it.

It goes back to Council Caldwell's point before about uh, you know, sometimes the inspector is stuck in the middle, right?

In in the way that we can get unstuck in this particular uh type of instance is with the the help of corporation council.

And I'm not running this meeting, but I guess no one else has questions.

So can you just oh you do okay?

Um, I was gonna ask about the um the county-led situation and you guys how that would work, but you would approach the bill because we only got a few minutes if they have time, they can answer.

Okay, I I just I just for sake of clarification.

Would you go to page 113?

I just wanna like I said it's clarification.

So there is line 54170, which is contracted service related parties, and then line five four one five five zero zero services.

What's the difference?

Yeah, oh I was gonna ask that, but the hold on I can tell you.

Yep, yeah.

Okay.

And then and then the other one is the third-party review, right?

Okay.

Counselor, did you get that?

So Surah and So uh uh yeah, the the the 5417 Sura, the 5415 is third-party review.

Third party review.

And and we've got a few other contract stuff in there as well, but it's third, but that's that's where that is.

Okay, and then and then 54050.

What is that?

Is that is that more of what 5405045 is.

Is that that are those the office?

Equipment, what what is that, right?

Um so that includes our grass mowing, which is why that's so high.

The bulk of that is the code enforcement grass contractor for vacant houses, vacant lots.

So uh these are privately owned properties, by the way.

So we have to go through a process of inspectors to monitor it.

You don't cut it, get a violation, you don't comply, goes on the contractor's list, contractor goes and cuts it, you get a bill.

Um reimbursed average.

Oh bigger question is does that money come back into your budget as revenue if we get the money back from the owner, or does it not hit your budget?

Doesn't okay.

But I'll say this.

If they don't pay it through the city payment center, when they get a bill from Vicky and her team, it goes on to the taxes.

Okay.

But you don't see the return revenue back to your no, I mean we probably should because two thirds of the vacant properties are taxed current, but again, that's a you know that's another thing that's not in here on paper that the work that we're doing.

Right.

So Jake, there's been a few times when somebody calls me and goes, they mold my lawn.

That's like Mrs.

D.

Augustino called me was very upset because you have a third party who does a lawn, then they accidentally go on their private property, and then they get mad at me.

And and it does happen though.

So and then they get uh uh a letter, they get a fine.

We have situations like that where you're dealing with constituents who feel like they were billed erroneously or shouldn't happen.

You can contact Ryan and myself and we'll work if it's appropriate, we'll waive the charge.

It happens.

Okay, if that's what you mean.

All right, thank you.

On the road I was going a second ago.

The so if we do an emergency takedown, like that smokestack over there, I won't use any names.

If we get that money back, does that money go back to your budget or no?

No.

Okay, okay.

So that's by the way, he's ready to pay us uh the cost of that.

He's trying to settle some other wings we have with them.

Wow.

Um, like another one who uh I think it's in your district, the one towards uh Nottingham on East China C Street that had the bad fire a month or two ago.

We already got paid for that.

Right.

As well.

That doesn't show up in your revenue.

Okay.

Okay, so they got to that we can go.

So then we can we're running out of time, right?

So out of that goes.

Yeah.

Sorry, Joel, we keep doing it to you.

So so out of the uh the uh the Surah line, what remind us again how many positions 22.

22?

Yep.

And that's uh and the those are the ones that are represented on page 112.

Okay, and that is increasing the decrease of two, decreasing, decreasing, okay, decreasing.

And that's because positions are getting reduced.

That's uh mainly because the lead grant positions are going from the coast.

Okay, they'll move it.

That's what you were talking about earlier.

Okay, correct.

Okay, last question.

Uh 51990, which is um yeah.

That is that is that out uh is that the title pay?

51990.

Yeah, so the set.

That's that's the when it's zeroed out.

Sorry, and is zeroed down because that was wrong.

Umset, do you remember what that was?

What was that from?

Yeah, for grant.

Grant.

Okay.

Okay.

So we're not getting any of this year.

Is that the idea?

Uh we can be good.

Yeah, so it's it so when you look at the fact that we've got 32 different grants that uh are managed under NBD, and we are able to pull admin off of probably eight or so.

Uh that's gonna fluctuate a little bit depending on what grant is is in, what grants uh termed out.

Uh so I couldn't tell you specifically what this is for, but this would have come from when we build the budget.

Uh what we'll look at is where are we able to pull grants appropriately for the different positions?

Uh grant admin for the different positions.

So I can look into which one that was.

Okay.

I don't know off the top of my head.

That would be helpful.

Three three minutes.

Uh quick question.

I asked this question all departments.

Surah, do you at some point plan to remove a lot of these people off of the Surah payroll?

So I would I would say when you look at the positions that we have on Sura right now, they are appropriate for Surah positions.

Sir uh the urban renewal agencies are supposed to be for the for the betterment of the housing of the community, and that's what code enforcement is all about.

So I knew this question was gonna come up.

Um we actually talked about on the walk over here.

Over the years, code enforcement's done a lot to remove positions from Sura and put them on the city C SCA line.

Uh for instance, all of our inspectors used to be called SPCC inspectors, Syracuse property conservation code inspectors.

They're on the Surah line, none of them are on this uh on the Surah line anymore.

Um it's mainly admin positions.

Um but to Michael's point, yeah, I'd maybe maybe the garage inspector possibly, but that'd be it.

Well, yeah, we can go through the list because I'm just asking the question of every department because we're trying to reduce the number of people on Surah.

Yeah, and we can uh I'll sit with you right after this and uh see where the discrepancy is between the number that you've got and the number that uh that we've got right here.

Okay.

Sure.

Thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Everybody good?

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

Second.

Thank you.