I think I did the same thing, Jimmy.

All right.

Well, good afternoon.

We will start our meeting with the Department of Public Works.

I'm joined by my colleague Helen Hudson, Donna Moore, Martinave, Core William, myself as the chair, President Pennyower, and Jimanto.

And here to our left is Anne Fordoc, uh Deputy Commission of the Department of Public Works.

Kind of an eddy.

Okay.

Welcome.

Thank you.

So as you said, uh Ann Ford, first deputy commissioner of DPW.

Jenna is the DPW fiscal officer.

And so we are here for the operating budget.

Just to give a little context.

So a lot of our superintendents are here.

And so uh we brought them up in case there's any in-depth questions, or if you'd like to meet or talk to any of them.

Um as you know, DPW has lots of different independent bureaus.

So we will go through page by page and let you ask any questions.

If uh you want me to proceed?

Yeah, let's let's start with 118, because uh I see that there's um a reduction in in uh staff.

So uh one of those is um member Richard Avesti retired.

So we had let me find it on here.

The assistant director of fleet operations, we brought that person in to learn from Rich DeVesti, take over, and that is Jeff Fergola, who's here, and so then we were able to eliminate the assistant director of fleet operations, and then there's also uh was an administrative assistant, which was a transition for Robin St.

Hilaire, who retired as well.

So Robin plays uh position has not been filled?

It has been, yeah.

We brought in the administrative position so they could learn from her and then transition her to retirement.

All right, um the direct questions at all?

Yeah, go ahead.

Looking at page 119, and I see that the utilities have gone up quite a bit.

Yes, utilities gas is going up.

So that is gasoline.

Or is it 54100?

So it's these two lines.

So it's gas and electricity?

Gas and electricity.

Yep.

We also took on fire and for this, it's all being housed at DPW.

And we took on the gas and electricity for police and fire as well, and so that's in the DPW budget.

Okay, Councillor Williams, you were gonna add something to that.

No, you're just when you mentioned gas, and I was doing the math, and it's about an 80% jump year over year, and you know, just utilities.

Yeah, they're up and gas up, but not that percentage, but it is the taking on the new buildings and the new police fire building as well.

Got it.

And my second question is uh 1700.

You had zero zero in there for the actual, but it's 137,000 for the proposed contracted services related parties, is that the one?

Yes.

Okay.

So it started in our budget last year.

Right.

Last year.

Yeah.

So last year it moved from engineering to DPW, and that is the facilities manager position that was Surah.

We didn't have it in 24, 25.

Okay.

That's why it was zero.

Yeah, it's just a very uh that's gonna be that job.

Which is the token and all that stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if you have uh police and fire cost of utilities in your budget, does it mean that in their own budget do they forward anything to you, or that's you taking on the cost?

Okay, it's gone from their budget to yours.

Okay, we're gonna have to look into that.

Okay, do we want to move on to environmental services, page 120?

So we removed three positions.

Um that was one MEO two and then two MEO1s.

That sounded confusing, but it's basically three MEO positions.

So the budget there went down.

No.

We eliminated three positions.

And the budget went down for environmental services.

And the reason why?

They didn't need it through we were asked to make some cuts, and so you took the positions that were long vacant or that we you know couldn't fill, and those were the okay, they were vacant.

Okay.

Oh yes.

Yes.

We still need drivers.

Um, and so we're short over 30 uh CDL drivers.

We still desperately need those drivers.

Um, I believe they mostly reside in street cleaning, street repair, and sewers.

Question for you on that.

Do you guys provide CDL training or do you want them to come to you already trained?

Yes, for both.

So um uh if they come CDL trained, I want them, yes.

Um if they come in as a labor or a temp, uh we strongly encourage them to get their permit, the CDL permit, and we can train them, but uh they do have to put forth the effort and the you know the interest to do it.

Good to know.

I'll I'll push some people in that direction for you.

Yes, I had a question on a CDL as well, and I don't know anything about CDL other than it's a specific type of uh per uh driver's license or whatever, but so I don't know if this is across the board or just with the city.

The CDL drivers, anything that happens with with their like if they had an incident that counts to their license, um their insurance, is that just the city or is that everything?

That's a great question.

I don't know if Lisa's here.

Um I know she has been working on that.

Um, and I'm not sure how long this has been happening because it it seemed like a new newer occurrence.

Um but yes, they could have an accident while working for the city that impacts their license and their personal insurance, right?

And so I believe uh Lisa and people at the city are working to figure out a solution to this problem, but I think it might be a state level issue.

Okay, yeah.

Because that's what I'm hearing why people don't want to do it.

So yeah, I I believe everyone's been having a shortage since you know before COVID, even um, and every year it just gets a little bit harder and a little bit harder.

So and I want to go to um page 121.

Uh at uh the very top uh 5100 and then the 200.

What's the difference between that first line and second line?

Salaries versus wages, yeah.

What's the difference?

Weekly versus bi-weekly.

So such as I get paid bi-weekly, local 400 gets paid weekly.

Okay, you so you separate them, but they're all salaries.

Correct, but it's it's because it's weekly versus bi-weekly, they are separate.

Yep.

Yeah, really quick.

Um let's go to 500 on 121.

Is that what is that related to going from the 4,000 to the 9400?

Which land is is it operating services and expenses?

Yes.

So um that is Andy's crew's environmental services and things like chainsaws, um, edgers, leaf blowers, shovels, supplies, face mask, gloves, stuff like that, trash bags, uh, just regular stuff to do their job every day out there.

Yep.

All right.

Um moving on to division of building services, which is 122.

So you're going to see an increase in positions here.

Um we had to add staff, um custodial workers for the new police and fire building.

And so that was a large part of this.

Um you added four, right?

So there's four custodial workers, but there's um eight total because you need a crew leader and the laborers and the maintenance worker.

They all get lumped into that eight.

No, they're full-time.

Yeah.

It's a big building, so it needs its own custodial staff.

And that's out of your budget, not out of the state.

That is correct.

Yep.

Yeah.

Um right.

If there's no questions on building services, we'll go on to street repair.

I want to go ahead and stay a little bit on the uh temporary service for the skill trade.

Yes.

Um we doing with with filling those those positions and you said it they are under under temporary services.

So temporary services when it's summer.

When it typically on a call by a call.

It it would be seasonal, not like on call, right?

And so um Kevin can correct me if I'm wrong, but uh these are through the union.

So you know, um we we say we need temporary workers and they go through the apprentice.

Are they still in the apprenticeship program, Kevin?

Or are they um yeah, union temps?

Um chief operation officer, Kevin Henry.

So the temps that we have here during the summer, we we only house two full-time roofers.

We have about four, I believe, positioned for roofers, and we'll bring them on for six months, or normally when the roofing projects over, we'll send them back to the union.

Like we we just filled a mason position, we're gonna fill a carpenter position, but these are just for sp for specific projects during the summer.

We hold on to the positions, but we do not keep people here full-time.

That's how we're allowed to do a lot of this work in-house.

Like we have two masons, but we have four mason temp positions, so we'll bring them all in to do a job and send them back.

So those positions are never going to be filled permanently.

Does that make any sense?

Yes.

Is it is it hard to find that or not?

Not at all.

No, they're pretty good.

Okay.

Usually when we call a hall, they'll send us a couple of guys like right now.

I asked them to send three so we can interview them because we actually want to fill a full-time carpenter's position for someone who retired.

A lot of the skilled trades guys that are here, they were previously temps.

They worked for the city for a few years as a temp.

We saw potential to hire them full-time, and that's how they got higher full-time here.

So we also use that for that to define potential candidates to be full-time here.

Thank you for that.

All right, okay.

If we're good with building services, uh street repair is next.

And so we did uh reduce the amount of positions there.

And those were positions that were vacant.

Uh and so when asked to make some changes and some cuts, it seemed the positions that were vacant and we weren't able to fill would be the uh easiest solution.

So the assistant superintendent of street repair was vacant?

Correct.

And this might not be you.

Um projected 26.

The million dollar chips reimbursement is not in there.

Um are we anticipating that?

We just don't have it in the budget, or what's you know, what happened with that?

You mean like the year we're in right now?

Why would we do that?

Correct, you know, so the adopted last year the budget had a million dollar reimbursement for chips projected in there.

We next year we have million dollar reimbursement projected when we look at the projected um no money for the reimbursement.

We haven't been doing a reason reimbursement back to the operating budget for a couple years.

Um we've had new people working on ships, and it's just been easier to submit contractor invoices to the state.

Um this year we are gonna get back into doing salaries.

Just obviously to help out the operating budget.

So then to the budget team, why do we have the the proposed in there for the 27 year if we're shifting?

We're we're going to need it for next year, not the current year we're in.

Okay.

So I guess what's the difference then?

Because the adopt budget included that anticipated reimbursement.

Previously, yeah.

Yeah, we just was in there.

And we've we're putting the million dollars back in for next year, but we're not gonna capture it for this fiscal year.

That's correct.

And will you explain to me why I have um slow?

Yeah, and I would say that's the same.

We just weren't able to do it.

Yeah, we we've been having chips has been turning over a lot.

We have different people working on it, and it's been easier to submit full invoices from contractors, but we're gonna move back to doing the salaries from Kevin's team.

Just going to do that.

Oh, yeah, we're still getting it.

It's just we're not submitting stuff that relates to the operating budget.

It's from capital.

Yeah.

So just a general question.

Speaking of chips, um, do we know what percentage we have used of chip money?

We're down to nothing right now.

You've used all of it.

Yeah, so we are waiting to hear what this coming year is gonna be.

We didn't get it yet, did we?

Yeah.

Everybody is first deputy commissioner of finance.

Uh, we're waiting for the state budget to pass, and then once they send us a letter, we'll know how much chips money we have for the upcoming year.

So 2025, 20, 26, we uh depleted, gone.

It's all gone.

Okay.

It's all been asked for in reimbursements.

Okay.

Okay.

So um go ahead.

I I want to go to 124 and labor one and two.

I see the salary there.

Um are those position hard to recruit for?

Labor one and two, okay.

Um one and two, yeah.

I mean, the CDL drivers are harder to recruit for than the laborers.

So that's that's where Donna's gonna help with.

I'm not trying.

But those laborers can become CDL drivers, those existing laborers in that position.

Uh if you know, the pay or the advantages made them, you know, want to do that.

So I actually um good evening, everyone.

Blessings to everybody.

Hi.

Um, I'm not sure if you answer that question, but how many CDL?

You guys already answered that question?

Um I didn't say a number, it's over 30 right now.

Is that CDL drivers that were short?

That you're short.

Now, how many do you have total?

Oh gosh.

Do you know?

If not, you can get that back to me.

But you're short 30 CDLs, um, drivers.

I think it's I mean we have it.

It's over 30.

I think it can't remember if it's 31 or 32 that we're short right now, but I know Jenna has so can I ask you a conf um a confrontational question?

Not for me, but it might make computational for you, brother.

So across the city, we're having issues with CDLs, right?

Period, right?

And it's one of the things that our counselors we've been talking about ways to try to support you guys, right?

To doing that because the work can't get done without the CDLs.

What is the main factor why?

Because I was told that people who drive for the city also, if something was to happen, get an accident that it goes on their insurance.

We talked about that.

Yeah, all right.

No, so is that one of the main reasons?

I apologize.

You don't got to answer that one, but I do think it's statewide.

Because statewide.

I believe so because I know that Lisa was working on something at the state level regarding that.

Um so that is one residency, the big one that we hear about a lot.

Um, I've had people in sanitation tell me they would switch out of sanitation if they could, and like get more overtime and be in street repairs, be in street cleaning if they could, but they don't live in the city.

Uh sanitation doesn't say that again.

Sanitation.

So I have you know, 80 some odd people in sanitation.

They don't have to live in the city.

New York State.

Correct.

New York State law.

Um, because you you couldn't say be a trash worker in New York City and afford to live in New York City.

So there was a state law many years ago that exempted 46.

Thank you.

That exempted sanitation from that.

So I definitely have sanitation workers that would love to get the overtime that other departments get, but they cannot because they do not live in the city.

Um that benefit sanitation for sure.

But residency is what I've heard is a big hold up also pay.

How much are the let me ask you?

What does a CDL um driver start off with?

It's uh 20 to 21.

Um I 20.38 cents.

So I was in there.

20 like two zero, yeah.

Yes.

With a three and eight I know.

Yeah.

It's a big reason.

And do you want to come up?

You can talk.

Okay.

Um 38, but that's the goal.

So because and I'm only asking this because people are listening and people, you know, are saying, well, why this and why that?

And I'm and I explained to them like, yeah.

I feel your pain, right?

We do feel your pain, but some of this is contractual.

Exactly.

Right?

And it's done in in the union base and it has nothing to do with us over here.

That we because I agree, and I think mostly all of us agree that.

This is just sad.

We I think all of us would like to pay them more.

Right.

And so also there's the gap between laborer and driver.

It's very close.

Um so what would what would make you, if you're gonna damage your insurance, want to move from laborer to driver if the pay isn't that great of a distance between and you have you might be absorbing some type of liability.

So I think all of the things, right?

It's it's residency, it's wages, it's this insurance issue, right?

And the book has to do a um uh seasonal um wage increase, like for snow plowing.

I mean, there's certainly even talk of of you know paying different wages when it's snowing or when they're plowing or whatnot.

So there's also uh shift differential uh for nights.

So I know the book has like a beginning and end, right, with it.

So just for and everybody can't see our books.

We know it.

For uh uh sanitation workers starting off, what do they bake?

He's gonna end up coming up anyways.

I was like, I don't think I told them to come.

I know what that's the same rate because it's 400, right?

It's a s very similar, yeah.

Yeah.

What's the same?

If they're a local 400, if they're a driver in CDL, it's the same 20.38 cents.

So they're in four 400, and so that's you know, so some so sanitation workers as well as CDO work CDO certification people are starting off with 2038, typically.

So for the gentleman who started back 10, 15, 20 years ago when minimum wage is 13, 42, they're just now making this and they've been there a long time.

But the people are coming in are just making this.

Is this what we're is this this is just what I'm hearing, so I'm just trying to figure out and they you know, typically they get two or three percent in their negotiations, they're negotiating right now, all the contracts are up right now, and um the administration and the union are working on new contracts.

I wish Steve was here, he could provide some insight.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Can I go back to street repair for a second?

Yes.

So the you we cut this as a superintendent of street repair, and then is road reconstruction manager vacant?

Or it says TBD, so is that is one person doing all three of those jobs?

It was the road reconstruction manager was filled, it's now vacant again.

Okay.

We definitely need that back.

We need them uh um like immediately.

They weren't.

But we had the third party.

Oh, they weren't doing it, they weren't managing the role recovery mics on.

Let's go.

Put out all the secrets.

I'm on this side with them, y'all.

Let's go.

They were doing right-away stuff.

Yeah, they weren't the title wasn't really clear.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, people Kevin does all the you have people work, Kevin.

You have people to help you.

Look at his face.

No.

Do my best.

Okay.

Kevin, could you come up?

I got a question.

And it's not the push-in-house.

Nobody would not sleep with Kevin.

But you got a question?

Go ahead.

Well, yeah, because there's a reduction of eight positions inside street repair, right?

They were vacant.

Okay.

But did you just steal her question?

You had the question, right?

Well, they're vacant, but do we need them?

Like they were vacant because we couldn't fill them, but does Kevin need those eight positions?

Kevin, do you need those?

I need operators.

Which same as drivers.

They have class A or Class B license.

So that's what I need.

I need operators.

How would like so on our side?

What can we do to help make that better for you guys to get operators?

Is it is it operated things you say?

Pay we have to have better pay, because we're not gonna get qualified operators unless we have better pay.

That's a 2038 number, right?

Those positions get hired at 20.38 cents.

Yeah, they might if it's uh if we hire them at a class A as it because that would be a uh class A license, so they get a couple dollars more an hour, but it's still not enough.

Contractual.

Yeah, yes.

Remind us again how how compared to what you pay uh here with say what is that?

Well, I mean, I don't know if we can compare municipalities because they don't well, I guess I I can't say that.

Well, let's say like a Barrett, my contractor who comes in and does road work the same as we do.

I mean, they're they're operators, their drivers, their labors.

Their operators are making eighty dollars an hour.

Well can't I say that again?

Eight zero.

Eight zero an hour.

Zero zero.

Yeah.

Laborers are making between 45 and 50 dollars an hour.

Yeah.

Big difference.

They do exactly the same work we do.

Sorry, Kevin.

Wow.

Just you know, it's it's that's that's our problem.

Yeah.

Counselor joke, I can see.

You know, milling paving, doing road work, it's it's uh it's uh it's tough.

So it's not an easy job.

Kevin, can I ask you a question?

Sure.

Those that are working for Barrett, are they full time with benefits like our employees are?

They're they they have benefits, but they're not full-time, so they collect unemployment in the winter.

So they're they they collect uh $800 and seventy dollars a week in the winter they could.

And I say this to Kevin, uh, and I want to say they're honestly graceful.

You know, we play joke because we all feel your your pain, but we thank you.

And we thank you.

And they're doing the work that you're doing.

You know, um, some of this stuff is out of our hands because of union, but we are aware of it.

Yeah, we're doing our best.

Trying to do our best.

Okay.

Sounds from a joke, I can see you're reconsidering your choices.

But I got nothing.

I've got nothing.

Okay, so street repair.

We're gonna move on to motor equipment maintenance.

We call M E M.

That's our garage.

And we are down two positions there.

But you'll see some increases on the next page, which is 127.

Um we do anticipate um some fuel increases.

Uh, I think we're all possibly already feeling that.

So what who um what departments use that fuel?

Is it just DPW or does fire and police do?

Fire, police, um, Syracuse housing, um Daga County.

Upstate?

No, I got upstate.

I was saying, yeah, sorry.

Um I'm trying to think.

School district.

Um yeah.

Yep.

School district.

School district, yeah.

And all the DPW bureaus, you know, parks and ever city water.

Every city uh entity as well.

School district.

Wow.

Do they reimburse us?

Yeah, it was 100 men.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Everyone has their own like code key thing, and it keeps track of everything.

The less lines on page 127 at the bottom, that's where we collect those.

Oh, the less lines.

Okay.

We pay for it, and then when they reimburse reimburse us, it goes it goes here.

And then it comes on their budget.

Yep.

And the reimbursement you said goes directly to your line.

Yeah, but go to a less line on general fund.

Nope, yeah, it goes to MEM.

Because we have to pay for the gas.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's just an accounting thing, I guess.

So what is the what's I don't even know what page it was on?

The we pay uh other municipalities $500.

What page was that on?

I'll find it.

I'll come back to that.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So the garage.

And next up is waste collection, recycling, and disposal.

The sanitation department.

Clearly, my favorite.

Oh, did I skip one?

Did I skip snow and ice?

Oh my goodness.

You have.

I did.

Page 128 is snow and ice.

Uh you'll see um this is street repair and street cleaning.

So it just flips over to snow and ice, so we don't repeat some of those same costs because they're already accounted for.

Uh this is where salt lives, so uh we do have a increase in salt, salt seems to go up every year.

And um we had a few good years and now we've had some bad years.

Um I think it's New York State.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So moving back to trash.

Waste collection, recycling, and disposal.

Wait, then so where does the uh does the snow plow fall under this contract?

Yep.

Right?

Uh 541500.

Okay.

So that's where professional services.

Okay.

Just stay stay on that for a second.

I know we had yanked it early on.

Speaker?

The operating room.

Oh, sorry, it's 540500.

So under operating expenses, supplies and expenses, which is for salt and 128.

Page 128.

128.

Under contractual and other expenses.

So is is the idea to bring it back this coming winter?

When we can use them, we do.

Okay.

This past winter we did utilize them.

So we terminate the contract with the that is different.

That's sidewalk.

That's sidewalks.

Okay, okay.

It's one o'clock.

Um other question around this area?

I have a question.

And this is back about this pay, because I'm just I'm just frustrated for you guys.

And I feel for the workers.

Um would would do you know what it would cost across the board to align up as far as like what would your budget more you would need across the board to raise everybody up to lease $80 an hour.

No, I wish I could, I might be over there like respectfully.

Like I would assume, I mean, I know the con the conversation's happening according to she's in negotiations, and I'm sure they're running the numbers probably with each proposal uh going back and forth with each other.

Um, but I'm not aware of how much that was like is this a living wage?

Yeah, you know, like there's no way with all the inflation cost and all these tariff initiated stuff.

Yeah, they get a lot of overtime, but but you're right.

Second, three, second and third jobs.

They have to.

There's no way.

Yeah.

And predominantly, let's keep it where there's a lot of men that work there who have families that are supposed to be that hassle.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yep.

So I really would love to know.

Um, and I'm pretty sure some of the counselors would like to know what is the number that would make sense to support across the board to try to level up the playing field.

And and maybe do it, the whip was maybe DeWitt was a good bad example.

Well, some of the other words might be more.

He was talking about Barrett, though.

Uh he was talking about Barrett.

Barrett, okay.

The contractor, not we don't know what to wait gets.

Okay.

Uh, what about an Andaga County just here?

What is it?

I can't remember because I know we've had discussions about it, and and I think I had printed stuff up, but I think that's a good idea.

And I I think I vividly from our previous conversation.

I I let's to counselor Cardwell's point, and we we have talked about this.

It's it's just it's inconceivable for people that are dedicating so much time yet they are barely making a living.

I I the the best way I would say is I I can go to uh McDonald make the same money.

Yeah, yeah, less stress, yeah.

And less stress.

And we constantly speak about you know having the highest concentrated of poverty, but we are poverty pits at this point.

Absolutely.

I think we have a serious issue here that need to be looked at, and I don't know what that looked like.

Maybe we'll have that conversation offline.

Well, I just think it'd be nice to get a number.

If we could get a number, then maybe but we don't have it.

It's really the it's really the million.

Come on, Rick.

No, don't worry.

Come on, we gotta come on.

Unless she wants to come up.

So like I had I had an employee left um, it went to the county, and he told me he was roughly staring around 27, 28 dollars an hour.

So about eight bucks difference, right?

Is that is that it's it's the last position that I had the county starts were at the top out.

Okay.

That's that's just you know roughly what county state.

Insight, insight.

You have come help us out.

Come call it.

Come on, over, Deputy Mayor.

Being that you have the insight and you're working with the negotiations, where do you see the numbers at?

Let the secret out.

Come on.

So uh, you know, I can certainly get you the numbers, counselor.

I can certainly show you kind of the scale of what uh we're looking at.

You know, we have made offers for not only cost of living adjustments, but to address what Anne's concern, what she what the first deputy commissioner raised between the the gap between um laborers and the operators that we need needs to be there needs to be more of an incentive to encourage the laborers to become operators.

And right now that incentive really isn't there.

Um and so we put forth a proposal to try and get us there and we're in.

Who did the proposal go to local 400 in our contract negotiations to the union?

Okay.

Because I thought when we did the wage increases that we were when we did the study that we were gonna be increasing the wages.

So we didn't do a wage study for the union members.

The wage study was only for those non-represented employees.

Remember, there was a proposal for union employees.

And that's where the that's where the issue came in a year or two ago where they had just signed theirs, but then the next department got like this increase, and that was some frustration behind all that.

I mean, there is always certainly to your point, counselor, you know, the negotiations happen oftentimes simultaneously.

We we do our best to try and encourage the unions um to maybe stagger their contracts a bit, but understandably having them so close together allows them to coordinate a little bit more with um to make sure that they're not missing out on something, but there is always the um challenge of being the first one to sign, and then you see what everybody else gets, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, and in their views.

So Deputy Mayor, how can we be a help to help that?

Because honestly, my I'm speaking for me.

That is that's sad.

Like they're what they make is like I don't know, you know, you you can't expect for them to come in their their laborers and they're working hard and work eight full hours and give you your all making that kind of money.

That's just not gonna work, right?

Sure.

So especially they have so many injuries, you know, injuries behind all behind that, right?

So what how can we help change that near it?

I know in in the union piece, I'm from you 624 union, our 10 years union, so I know all about that.

But how can we up the playing field to help them out so that it's a balancing act where everyone gets something, but at least something to make them go in the morning, you know?

Sure.

Because right now that don't I honestly be like sure, you know?

Yeah, I mean it I would be happy if if um a number of counselors would be interested to kind of um give some insight on where we're at with negotiations currently in terms of what we've put forward, what the union has put forward, what the cost is for each one of those proposals, and see if we can come to a place where um the council and the administration is on the same page in terms of what we think is a fair proposal.

I I'd be happy to do that.

We we to um your question, counselor, we do have the numbers, and so we'd be happy to share them with the council, and and that might help just to give a little bit of insight on what's happening in the negotiating room, at least as to start with um local 400, since that's the one that you know is the largest.

And maybe we just we could end up filling some of those vacant positions, those 30 vacancies if we came to our agreement.

Can I ask another quick trick question?

I don't know if it's you can answer it, and I know unions here, but if there was a way, is there any way that there's a way to be able to give sign on bonuses to other or give bonuses to different people, right?

Just like no different from you know, yeah.

I mean, I think we do have that flexibility.

If it's um it would depend on whether or not that would require the union sign-off, because uh obviously the union's also trying to strike a balance between their existing employees and employees don't that they haven't that they don't even have yet.

And so um I could definitely explore whether or not that requires, I mean, because those folks wouldn't be employees yet, and so yeah, we might have that ability to offer.

I would love to hear about it.

Yeah, we can hear about but if there was just for say I'm just something so I can understand it.

If we said, oh, we wanted to give CDLs during the winter time extra four thousand dollars or two, three thousand dollars.

Is that have to be union, or is that something we can say a part of this is that we agree to all CDLs get extra three or four thousand dollars during winter time?

I will say, to my knowledge, I think that would require the union's approval, but to your point, because I know we've had the conversation where you would challenge the administration to get creative um with some of the ways that we can try to uh uh look at ways of compensation.

So we've been looking to try and find ways that we can be creative, but to your point, I think some of that would require the union's sign off.

But um, this could be part of the conversation too, in terms of you know, I would love for the council to kind of push us to be even more creative and bring some ideas to the table that we're just not entertaining right now.

Yeah, why don't we move this conversation off the line online?

I'll be happy to reach out and then say, then we can uh we can because I think that's there's a lot of hurdle and complication here that are easy said than done, right?

Because of the uh some of the bargaining requirements that that may make it even harder than what what what we are talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'd be yeah, I think I you know and and and not for nothing.

I think what the counselors are saying, I I know you you you understand it because you've been looking at these numbers for for a long time.

Uh that it this this here is not cutting it.

It's just not and what what is cutting it, I don't know.

It may be the eight is it eighty dollars an hour jump?

I don't know.

I don't know, I'm a little over there.

But is it is it do we all move to do it so we can make eighty dollars?

I don't know, but but it it's it's worth a conversation.

Understood.

No, it absolutely is, and I I would appreciate you know, if the council is willing to do it, happy to sit down and and kind of share some of the information that we have, and again, uh to welcome the council also to push us to get more creative in the way that we're thinking about things.

Okay, we'll I appreciate it.

We'll probably put a meeting together where we can explore it.

Yeah, I can reach out to the staff before not for you.

Okay, but uh thank you, counselor.

Thank you, Deputy.

Before we end, um the I the snow um not snow, salt.

How do we do this year?

Because I know the previous year there was shortages, um, and then with budget cuts last year, there was some uh we had to move some money around.

We didn't have enough to get through the season, but we found it, we moved it.

Okay.

Yeah, it we didn't there wasn't the statewide shortages because obviously the salt companies uh didn't like that experience uh last year, and none of the municipalities liked it either.

So um I believe they dug more salt out to make sure that wouldn't happen.

But um, but the price keeps going up.

But what happened to us um doing some other form like some liquid.

So we use uh treated salt, and so uh treated salt works when it gets below uh 20 degrees, it works better.

During the salt shortage that year, you you took any salt you could get.

Every municipality, it didn't matter if it was treated, non-treated, you were just trying to get anything.

This past year we only use treated when temperatures dropped, so that we could you know keep those roads open.

Okay.

There's there was days though that nothing worked.

Yeah, like it gets really cold, even the treated won't work.

Yeah.

Um, and just while we on that topic, this I'm trying to think who would be responsible for this too.

So I know that uh MBD may be a coordination between MBD.

Um, where there's like sometimes there's houses that sit on corners that might be listed as vacant properties um registered for vacant, and they might be a um bus stop for kids, and they get very icy because it's vacant.

Um no one's cleaning it properly.

And I know like last year I I went out and did uh uh corner or two.

So basically, who's responsible for these vacant properties that neglect the sidewalks and the corners?

Yeah, well, maybe I'm just saying it needs to be sorted.

Um if they have to be charged for it, then put it on their taxes or whatever, but it's you know, it's a danger for kids to slide on this ice.

So thank you.

So sanitation is next.

This is on the so uh position stayed the same.

Okay, uh and you'll see um yeah, I thought we already there.

There is an increase.

Um the tipping fee did go up.

It went up six dollars a ton.

And so what page are we on?

Uh 130.

Yep.

139.

So 1290.

Position stays the same, page 130.

Um, you're see and we didn't change the positions, but there is an increase uh because the tipping fee did go up six dollars a ton.

Um we still have trash and we still have to dispose of it.

So any questions about sanitation.

All right, we'll move on to street cleaning.

So those positions stayed the same too.

We do have a few increases uh there due to grinding and disposal.

Um disposal of the waste products.

Again, it's trash.

Uh so we have waste products in street cleaning, and those disposal rates have increased as well.

Like, so out of everybody's budget I've looked at.

You guys have no jump nowhere.

It's like one dollar to one dollar, right?

There's a couple increases, but there's also some decreases on other sheets.

So I'm saying that too, because most apartments have if you're making 21 dollars, right?

You're my typical 32 dollars now.

Oh, there's no incentive to do anything.

You see what I mean?

Yeah, like in most of everything is flat.

There's no, I mean in higher positions, but in the actual workers, yeah.

There's no incentive to do anything.

Actually, there's no love inside, yeah.

Yeah, they're really tight.

The the laborer to the MEO to the MEO to the the scale.

All union negotiated that price.

Yes, yes.

That you can only make 2247 and you could be here 20 years and make 2365?

Yep.

Yes.

And I have a question.

It's it's a very um elementary question, but if I have it, I'm pretty sure somebody else has it.

Um street cleaning is construction debris, trees, l leaves.

What's the difference between sanitation and street cleaning?

So sanitation is your trash and recycling and your bulk.

And street cleaning is street sweeping, construction debris, yard waste, and a downtown um litter crew that also does public trash cans.

There's hundreds and hundreds of public trash cans all around.

And of course, in winter they are snow and ice.

Okay.

That's all.

And I want to go to uh five four one five hundred, which is a professional services page one thirty.

It's it's what's what's what's up with that?

It's like almost almost quadruple.

Sanitation, you said quadruple.

Yeah, under yep, collect uh one page one thirty.

The last one.

Uh professional services, and services.

That is the Lake Creek thing.

I know that.

Is that it's for uh Lay Creek.

Like a low Joe Berry tells us every year how much we need to have in there.

Oh, yeah.

We did all of that.

Yeah, that's it.

So he told us we had to have 200,000 in there this year.

Where's the tipping increase in 540, 500?

Uh yes.

Okay.

Okay.

Street cleaning.

We went through.

Um we could move on to division of trip.

Pardon?

Oh, do you want to come up?

Okay.

Oh so now you want to come up.

Because I need people.

I'm 18 CDL drivers short, just in my bureau.

18?

18.

That's minus the from the 30, or that I think.

Oh, 18 of the 30.

And seven operators.

So 18 total.

18 total.

Okay.

So what are you in one bureau?

Okay.

So what are you down in that bureau?

What how m how many?

You said you got 11?

I'm down vacant.

I got 21 people on street cleaning.

We usually have like 45.

Oh.

So like almost 50% now.

What does it take to become a street cleaner?

Like move into that department?

Yeah.

So you would, I mean, typically your people come from sanitation.

Yeah.

I got I got bids up right now for MEO1, 11 of them.

And MEO2's seven of them.

So they post-woo bids on them, but I'm not gonna fill them all from internal.

So after um nobody's coming from the outside.

Because the residency in the pay.

The pool in the city is not big enough.

I mean, we need to widen it.

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna say this again.

I'm gonna plug it again.

There's nonprofits in our community that are doing workforce development that don't ever find out these jobs are open.

If you guys could do a better job of telling us when they're open, we work with all city people that are looking for entry-level jobs.

So I'm happy to fill in wherever I can.

I'm not saying that's gonna solve the problem.

Right.

But letting not just my organization, but a lot of organizations in the city that are working with city people that are looking for jobs in the city because they don't have ways to get out of the city.

Right.

So we just need to know about these jobs.

So what what is your recruitment strategies like to get people?

Yeah.

How do you require position?

That's not on me.

Who does it?

That's human resource.

Human resource department.

Where is uh where's Rick?

No, he's not here today.

No?

Uh Kevin.

Oh, you stood up, Kevin.

Yeah, but I think it's so so you know, Kevin.

I I think um to Donna Point.

You know, you you can't get applicants that don't know that there's a job, there are jobs, you know.

So and I think that's where recruiters become very, very important.

And I you know I've been to a lot of job job fairs, and I don't see the city table.

I've got several right here.

We have gotten nobody and you got nothing.

One person out of three jobs.

That's that's one.

The other piece is an effective proactive, just not on the job job fairs tables, but really being out there, active looking for people.

And I don't know if that's if that we need to step up the recruiting department.

I don't know what we need to do to get these applicants to want to do it.

Yes.

So to the um counselor's point.

At the job fairs with the entry level ploys, you have to have a CDL.

So all these uh job fairs that we go to, everybody comes in, we've never got one person, and we have multiple times a year because they're CDL positions.

Entry level jobs, we can fill them in a day.

We can get a laborer tomorrow.

Yeah.

But a CDL, and we go to all these job fairs, if we sit there for hours, no one qualified application ever.

Are you going to not to job fairs, but directly to the workforce development groups like uh ELC and Jubilee on RAM for us?

Community centers.

There's a consortium of the computer.

I mean, unfortunately, that that's that's not their job.

Yeah, yeah.

So we have worked with CNI Works and Department of Labor.

We started working with them late last year and we attended uh their job fairs, which they were sending it directly to candidates that they had in their 81 list that they knew had CDLs, and we had you know 30 people come, but not a one was qualified.

A lot of the pay number one was residency and pay.

They couldn't take the pay cut to come to the city.

Do you have to have, and that might not be a question to you guys, but not sure.

If you become a CDL um license, and you don't have uh vehicle, how does that affect we are running no one?

So if people drive, right, and they were saying that insurance statewide goes on your insurance, but if you don't have a car, how does that affect it?

They still have a CDL, but they don't have a car, so they don't affect them.

Okay, so they can still become a CDO or they could have to have a view for the CDL license.

Will you move closer to the mic?

Oh, so you don't have to, because I was told that if you had a CDL, you drive, you get an accident, that accident goes on your insurance.

Because if you don't have insurance, they're working on that to these like away getting away.

They're working on the get that squashed or whatever, but I think it's a statewide issue.

So uh let me ask you, what is it that we can do to help you guys help try to find people with CDLs?

What do you think is missing besides the pay, the residency?

Um and those other things, like how can we get maybe some of the younger people out to that's mostly yeah.

We have we have top of the line equipment.

We have some of the best equipment.

We have the equipment to do the job.

We just don't have the people.

A lot of times we go to work.

I go to work on the roads.

I I I go out there because we just don't have enough people to further equipment.

We need to connect you on with Jubilee Homes.

They're offering the CDO training right now.

They have a waiting list.

Where is that?

Jubilee Homes of Syracuse.

Okay.

I can connect you and you can do the and actually they have offered to.

We need to move because we got like five minutes left.

They have offered to come train your people.

No, I think that's wonderful.

I think it's something we could get with Rick on.

And I I welcome and any help from all of you.

I thank you so much for your passion on this because obviously Jeremy and I are very passionate about uh our employees, and so thank you.

Um street cleaning, and so DOT means street signs, uh traffic lights, uh not street lights.

You guys talked about that for a long time yesterday already.

So traffic lights, street signs, the street paint, right?

And so we kept the um number of employees the same there and we did have an increase.

We do have a utility cost there because electric is increasing, and we did add some funding there for a project and for highway traffic control.

And so let's see.

All right, that's DOT.

So we have did you have any questions on DOT?

Um questions.

You got a couple of them?

I have a couple questions.

Um throughout the district, when it's been the habit when we see problems, we have suggestions.

I brought them to you, I brought them to Neil.

Yeah, so what I want to know is you know, where do we get the follow-up stole when you when we have a problem?

They'll say, well, we have to do a study.

I'll give you an example.

Uh Court Street and Grant Boulevard.

Okay.

There's a V in the road where a person is gonna make a right uh right hand turn for many years.

There was a flashing red, stop and rip proceed by safe.

Now you got two, you got two stop signs.

What happens with me and other drivers, we have to look at that traffic signal, which is red, and we don't feel safe until it actually turns green.

Because we can't see we can't see that uncoming traffic coming down Grant Boulevard.

It's like uh it's it's you know, it's it's it's gets difficult.

So there's an example that we want the double stops, and we want to proceed when it's safe, but sometimes we have difficulty seeing that road.

And I and my suggestion, and I may have brought it up one other time is actually do a traffic study.

Um that we can you know look at that because there is there have been accidents in the four uh out of that.

So maybe we have to go possibly to have a traffic light again where they know it, and and it's gonna have to sink.

It's gonna have to sink because I use that uh many times, and I'm not safe.

Uh I wait till it's green.

Uh I had an accident where I was I was waiting for green, I made a right, but a person decided to make a right turn, did not use the V and almost collided with me.

Yeah, another time of person who was going the opposite direction, saw green saying linked the left, is now making a left, go down Grand Boulevard, yet I'm making a right towards Grand Boulevard.

And again, there was another thing where the car vehicles could collide.

So I I would since we're here now, I would strongly suggest maybe doing a study uh on the initial intersection of grandma.

And that was recently redesigned that one.

Um, no, it's been there.

I mean telling you I it's been there my whole life.

Okay, but I remember going up it was uh a stop on it was a red signal, and you waited till it it went green because it had to coincide with their other traffic signal, but now they put you you put up one stop sign, now you have two stop signs.

Uh and then drivers behind you get agitated, like go go.

Yeah, and and you see a vehicle coming.

So I think that I think when we look at vision zero, I think we might want to look at that intersection of uh court straight at Grand Boulevard.

I have two gentlemen here that I can tell they're like driving it in their mind right now.

Um he knows what I'm talking about.

Chuck, do you want to say anything or you want to just take a look at it?

Okay, you're good.

Okay, and one other question was about rehabilitation specialists, and I'd like to 30 seconds mark.

Okay, what's rehabilitation uh specialists?

Where was that?

It's Pat Mowin for the parking lot.

It was under Sarah.

Yeah, it's Pat Monin for the garages.

Okay, thank you.

And just really quickly to add to what Marty was saying, some of the um traffic like islands, some of them need something coming out of it to because when it's snowing, when it sometimes you can just have poor peripheral and you don't see that um because it's low and when like the driveway markers like that, or yeah, like a driveway marker, yeah.

Some something, I don't know.

Like, but some like I I'll just give you an example.

Hiawatha Boulevard and South North Salina Street.

Okay, yeah, by the way, like when you turn in and people in bumping.

You have to go really wide to avoid that, but if you don't know it's there, then you don't yeah, yeah, it needs some it needs uh something.

And we're quickly, what's payments to other governments on page one thirty-four?

134?

There's on a few pages.

I think it's New York State.

Oh, did you ask that under transportation?

Yes.

543000.

Just a line number.

Payments to other governments.

Um we pay New York State to lease a couple parking lots.

Okay.

That comes out of there.

And there's a Sur-owned parking lot as well.

Okay, that must be the word out Clinton.

Uh one oh nine West Washington Street.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anything else, Ann?

No.

Um I don't want to cut into the next person.

Right.

Uh it's two oh one, so that will uh journ our meeting.

Thank you, Anne.

Uh thank you all.

Um we'll take uh five minute break and then we'll be back.

Thank you.

Thank you.