45 round or nine millimeter round or something.

I think that's one of those just asking notify me that you would be here.

So it's not effective.

And that's what's the way things got three minutes.

I guess we sitting in for Mr.

Savage will be Mr.

Steele.

I should text Leonella and be like, come look at my grass right now.

You're gonna be so proud of me this one time.

It looks fantastic.

I'll tell my roommate yesterday.

I was like, our grass is so green.

He's like, that's what happens.

We can water it once.

No.

Well, I literally water it once a year.

Sometimes now or afterwards.

No, I don't see the point in wasting it on that grass.

Unless Lionel's happy on that because that's all that gaps.

Keep it short.

She gives me the evil don't look glance eye when she drives by this too long, and I go right to it.

We haven't understand it.

I appreciate your fall colors.

These are leaks.

Yeah, I'm just out of the car.

Yeah, we're talking about so much.

I think this is a big thing.

It was between the other two parties.

They need to put up and make it because of the first thing.

Oh depending on the target kids.

All right, recess duty and all that.

We were just blessing if you're lessing it.

That they were yes, we're gonna know that we can next slide.

If you'd like it'll take it with me and get the both of us quite you could leave it in Italy.

Please mail this back to Syracuse City.

That's funny.

Yeah.

Okay.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is six o'clock, and I would call this work session for the CRQ City Council to order.

Uh first item on our agenda is public comment.

Do we have anybody here for public comment tonight?

That I will dispense with reading or going through why we have public comment and move on to planning item number one, which is continued discussion.

Uh proposed amendment to Syracuse Municipal Code Section 6.10 relating to property maintenance regulations.

Continued from September 9th, 2025 city council meeting.

Um this uh really is your item, folks.

So I'm not gonna say anything more than where do you want to take it?

Because you wanted more discussion.

Well, I wanted to see where we could eliminate potential overreach and get down to kind of really what we're asking for or what we're looking for.

The parts that I still have uh and I'm just reading what we had from last week, but maintenance, so it states that maintenance includes replacing dead or dying vegetation with the same or equal plant as originally installed.

Um I think we need to rework that to give some options to similar, maybe not the exact same thing.

Um say that same or equal.

Same or equal, yeah.

That isn't really flow with the season.

Maintenance also includes mowing, watering, treating.

I don't know what treating means, fertilizing, edging, pruning, trimming, and or deadheading all grass, flowers, trees, shrubs, and/or edges.

Uh I just think to get kind of what we're what we're going for here.

I think you know first thing maintain your landscaping and yeah, okay if we can we can remove some of the specifics like fertilizer.

I know you were fertilizing dead heading all grass.

I just think that's over stuff.

Trees and shrubs keeping those maintained is is fine.

I think we need uh maybe focus more on the safety element of keeping trees and shrubs trimmed so that they're not you know impeding sidewalks or things like that.

What was that?

Okay, yeah.

I I think that um what you're saying right now, the consideration that I would bring forward is that somebody could change what they have today.

It doesn't have to be according to the original plan.

Uh as long as it looks professional and and kept.

I think that should be there's a way to say that without it came in and said, Well, I want to change my plantings to Zerascape, I think they should be allowed to.

As long as it still looks nice and professional.

And I agree.

Um, I I don't I'm okay taking out a lot, some of these are a little overly specific.

I'm good.

But I do think there should be a minimum standard, it should even be higher than residences.

Uh I think commercials is held to a higher standard.

And I think one of the things that we kind of talked about, one of the things was like not having exposed dirt barrier or something.

So having that type of stuff covered up.

The the one thing that I think is going to be difficult, and maybe Noah can speak to this, is because we're essentially saying you have to maintain the property per the site plan.

If Leonel is going around inspecting, I mean, she doesn't have she's not gonna go around to every building and be like, all right, let me review this site site plan in my pocket.

It seems like it's it seems like it's really just a reminder, and then she would be maintaining.

We do keep a record of all the approved site plans, and usually it's like if you go and there's like one of those baller things and it's ripped out and then wires sticking out, like we know that that was in the original site plan, so then we can say, like, well, what happened to that thing?

Why don't you maintain it?

Yeah, so I I'm okay.

But the thing is, what I don't want Lee Nell to have to do is go back and have carry on site plans and check all those things.

But uh, I'm okay if we want to mention something like that.

But I I do agree we don't need to have fertilizing edging.

What's between pruning and trimming?

There's probably is something trimming evens out permeant cuts down, okay.

Uh deadheading all how do you deadhead grass?

Well, like in our complex, we have that tall decorative grass.

Okay, so those chop down, we don't cut those down over here.

And it costs money for no reason, and the grass still looks fine during the winter.

Okay, so I've got remove fertilizing, deadheading, edging, pruning, trimming.

Any other changes?

Um I was gonna say, maybe for the site plan thing.

I mean, I kind of said this in my email that I sent out before last meeting, but like maybe wording like this, something like this, and maybe Colin has a better way of saying it, but like an approved site plan should not be substantially changed without first obtaining approval of an amended site plan is provided in the section for the purpose of the section substantially change, means alter it percentage of the lot landscape, number of sides of parking spaces, or additional uh or additions or reductions in building size, substantial changes does not include aesthetic items such as paint audience or equivalent landscaping substitutions.

So putting something like that in says, hey, you're gonna substantially maintain it the site plan, but if you make any like significant changes, yeah, you've got to resubmit.

But if you're doing something cosmetically or making equivalent substitutions with with landscaping, you shouldn't have to submit a new site plan.

That's and I will point out that we have made changes to our ordinance recently to encourage water-wise landscaping.

Uh we limit the amount of turf on new commercial site plans.

We encourage native plants and things like that.

And so if somebody wanted to convert that to our new ordinance, we're not going to make them go through a site plan process.

But there is a little bit of a judgment call of because we have a process for a revised site plan.

And at what point does it trigger that?

You know, usually if it's changing the parking or like you're laying out.

So we already do uh evaluate that one when people are wanting to make changes to their site.

Is there a way that you can simplify the approach to just must meet and approved uh or professional compliance standard?

Meaning so that way you're not saying you have to maintain what was approved at the original time, but you as long as it would still fit the ordinance, you could change it as long as it is compliant.

That might simplify the whole thing.

Just say it has to be a compliant landscape to our zoning laws.

Yeah, because right now it says like it like we no element of an approved site plan shall be changed or modified without first obtaining approval of an amended site plan is provided, which is contrary to what Noah's saying we do anyway.

As long as it's compliant to existing laws yeah sure I'm I'm good with that I think that seems to be more broad reaching and easy to enforce because that way if future standards change as long as it still maintains the standard we're they're good.

The the last part of the proposed ordinance has two options that we need your input on the fines I don't want to if you guys are still discussing the the other part of us fine but well I do want to make sure the architectural elements are maintained um I I see several of our buildings that have eaves that are drooping or things like that.

It's like come on guys.

So I I do think that we should leave all of that in there so it sounds like you're okay with that.

And but like I said all we're asking is you if it's in next year's budget or you you're gonna do it next year I'm good with that say so instead of saying us fine I I do think it's okay or present a plan for when it will be a complex what do you mean we use money cycle like the awnings and things like that the the the metals coming down or something like that.

Because that would I always call them the ease the metal on the ease the like the stock that underneath so like for me that would be a safety hazard which I don't think it's a safety hazard until it hits you and it potentially falls down yeah.

Okay but but still I don't want it to be limited to safety as long as it's drooping in a safe manner then then we're saying it's okay safe drooping or at least allow for some of those maintenance items to be again be on a scheduled but you know in okay if they plan yeah I'm good with that I just think we need language in there that allows for it then piece if we're gonna yeah if we're gonna allow for a plan then we need language in that to allow for that I agree um so so yeah so so fines can be uh can be dismissed as long as a plan an approved plan is is put forth but I do think it will require some type of a timeline and uh a potential reinspect yeah but yeah I mean I I don't think we're gonna say sorry you need to remodel your entire building this week because all of your sighting is falling off I can understand where you're coming with this I I really can't because if someone tells me I can't change my bushes outside no I think I totally agree with that I I think we have to have some flexibility of that that it has to be a compliant landscape to what the ordinance is and that there are that there has we have to give them an option to create a plan to fix it because some of this does get expensive but we do expect things to be maintained.

Yes a plan and schedule yes does that provide enough feedback to try and rework that section whoever's reworking it's noah for yeah that's what let's talk let's talk about the next part for the fines did you guys want anything over 500 to come to you guys or did you still want to put a maximum amount of fines on there I would be okay with a max fine of like what we've got option two which is not to exceed 2000 because then it doesn't have to come to us for everything that's gonna be not very effective I think I think you raised that point Colin yeah I prefer it did not come to you right yes yeah right which makes sense you guys are busy okay are there any other questions you have you would have prepared we'll come back to yeah with some revised language to the voting work to the work well to the voting if we think that we're there is there other questions there's something in particular you think you need to see that we couldn't discuss and revise in the meeting I think we could get it there okay there might be a little all right so we on the next voting meeting and uh staff will go ahead and take care of this.

Thank you.

Uh now we're gonna move on to items D.

Number number one is uh discussion of budget status for fiscal year ending June 30th 2025 we try to make these updates and uh I think that there was some really good information provided here.

Steve I'll turn the time over to you.

Yeah I wanted to try and keep this simple enough that it was easy to go through obviously as we can turn this into a very complex discussion but I just want to give a quick overview of where we're we think we're gonna land uh for fiscal year 25 which is we're talking from July 1st 2024 to June 30th 2025.

We're still actively working on our audit you'll see that audit report in December um but initial numbers are showing that we're actually came in ahead of what we we had budgeted.

Um, but initial numbers are showing that we're actually came in ahead of what we we had budgeted.

So we if you remember we budgeted just over a million dollars in deficit.

Um we're projected to come in at 350,000 in the deficit.

So still not a balanced uh solution, but we we we shrunk that deficit about some hundred and forty-four thousand.

Where was that made up?

So in our fund balance in that next bullet point, we have our our general fund reserve.

It's a it's our rainy day fund.

Uh statutorily, we have to be between five and thirty-five percent of our revenues.

Um at June 30th, 2024, we were actually a little bit above that a 37.2 percent, just over 10 million dollars.

Um that that 350,000 equates to about 1.25% reduction in that fund balance.

The bigger piece of that fund balance reduction, I'm anticipating about 8.5 million dollars at at the end of this fiscal year that we we just uh ended.

The bigger drawdown was for our class V road funds.

So incorporated in that fund balance.

It is a rainy day fund, but there are some assigned balances for different things.

3.1 million of that was was held for class C roads.

We actually we actually spent that down to 1.2 million.

So that was about a seven percent decrease.

So we're landing about 30.7 percent in our fund balance.

We're just just roads we didn't fix.

This is just money that we had that we we have a we have them scheduled on our five-year plan.

We just hadn't got to them.

This is the year we got a lot of that work done.

So this is all built into our five-year plan.

What I'm saying is even after that drawdown from 3.1 to 1.2, it was a 7% decrease.

We still have 1.2 million dollars sitting there for money assigned to class C roads.

It's it's part of our assigned to project specific in our that we voted on and we keep voting on.

Right.

That's 3.1 was a one-time dip.

Is that right?

So we don't expect that to happen again.

No, yeah.

And and if if you took out the 1.2 million and said we're gonna spend that all in class C, which we should, you know, that's another probably four or five percent.

Our our rainy day is is roughly around 25, 26 percent.

We're still well above our fund balance policy.

So our fund balance policy is an internal policy that says we want at least two months of of reserve or 16.7 percent is our absolute minimum we we would want to go before we're running into um you know, a conflict with our fund balance.

There are there are um call outs in our fund balance policy that says we can go below that.

Those are for recession, emergencies, things like that.

Well, we definitely want to keep it above 16.7.

Um, and what I'm what I'm showing here is we're 30 percent.

Uh end of end of this week 225.

By way of context, I'll throw in this.

That when uh I remember that the legislature changed this threshold right before I joined the council because I was attending meetings and listening.

And I think I'm gonna well was below 30 percent.

I think it was around 20.

It was 20, yeah.

28 or so and that was the max you could hold, and we were reviewing.

I remember two years in a row, we reviewed, and I was again not my council, but was reviewed what to do with the stuff when we went over that 28%.

So what I'm suggesting here is the fact that we're at 30%, we're not at a risk.

We're actually in a very healthy position.

Um, and yes, we could have uh a little bit more in our rainy day, and I think we'll get back to that.

But this I think when we projected a million, we knew that there was gonna be some makeup there.

And I think it it's amazing that our deficit was only 350 or so thousand.

So I I asked earlier where that makeup came from.

Do you know roughly?

Oh, the the savings, yeah.

Are you talking?

The main ones are we had some budgeted positions with our fire department that we didn't fill until close to the end of the fiscal year.

I think it was three happy positions.

So we had a way for that new station online.

And historically, our departments have been very good about underspending their budget anywhere from two to five percent.

That's that's been historical the entire time I've been here.

So that was fire money that wasn't used.

Yeah, we had budgeted it for a full year, and when we finally brought them on, we only recognize one or one month of expense.

So uh there's a lot of other things that happened in there and court recorder position.

What's that?

Elimination or court recorder position is separate from building.

Yeah, there's a lot of things that go into this.

And that like I said, I could I could have gone through a five-tooth column, and I'm more than willing to do that with the council of you know, counts where they ended up.

Our sales tax was 6.6% growth over the prior year.

I think we budgeted about the 6.5 to 7%.

So it came in right where we expected.

Um we had some other revenues that came in a little bit lower.

We had some that came in higher, but overall, um revenues came in about where we projected, and then we had some savings on the expense.

I I think this is pretty typical and what we expected and what we have seen in years past.

I don't think this is out of the ordinary.

They expect things would be pretty pretty typical.

I do have one other question.

It looked like in fiscal 2024, we were at 10 million 2025 and it dropped a million and a half to 8.5.

Am I reading that right?

Yes.

And if I look down in the packet of the next item under general fund, it says that the estimated ending fund balances on page 14 is 5.9.

Yeah.

Is that so there's the general fund?

There's two different things going on here.

When we talk about a fund balance or general fund, it's it actually includes I think eight or so different funds combined.

So when I'm talking on on our financial statement, the 20 the 30%, the 8.5 million, that includes our wrap tax fund or the Bas C road fund.

So it's it's a lot of those combined.

When you look at the budget opening, that general fund is one of seven or eight funds that we're combining.

It includes a park maintenance, it includes a bus C includes wrap tax.

Um there's there's a there's quite a few funds that roll in to our financial statement when we're talking fund balance.

So it and again, I you know this much better than I do.

If we're looking at uh tax year concluding 2025 at 8.5, and looks like estimated at 2026 at 5.9, are those equivalent numbers?

They are not.

So the 5.9 is a piece of the 8.5.

There are other funds that roll into that number.

So it's a it's a good portion of it, but it's not the entirety of what what we report on the financial state.

So that number for 2026 would be higher than 5.9.

Correct.

Yes.

So this is more um awareness.

This is not an action item.

Is everybody okay with where we're at today?

I think it's a pretty responsible report and position for the city.

Okay, seeing no further questions.

I'm gonna move us on to discussion of proposed budget amendment for fiscal year ending June 30th, 2026.

There's a lot going on here.

The majority of it is carryover of capital projects.

We budget based on fiscal year capital projects seem to carry over because we we bid them out in the spring and they tend to go longer than the season.

Um, so the majority of these in the red are just carryover projects.

We talked before about the the realignment with the 3,000 West waterline that shows there is a new item.

On the second page, there's a few that show revised.

So we've we've done some that was part of polling some money back and reallocating it to the 3,000 West.

But for the most part, this is just carryover of budgeted items we already had in our five-year plan.

In addition to that, we we did not receive the the vowel grant.

Uh this is similar to our our voca.

It would have been an add-on a part-time position.

We did not get that.

So we're removing the revenue and expense for that.

We did sell the stage where our budgeting or requesting budget for rental stage going forward.

Um, and then you can see on all the other funds, there's just some some miscellaneous items through there.

I think we've talked about most of them.

Uh the purchase of the dump truck we talked about.

Um again, some of these are just carry over.

We've talked about the roundabout, the 3,000 West.

This is putting the budget in for actual construction of that.

Well, some is land purchases.

How long is that done yet?

We already have the reservoir built, for example, for the reservoir.

Yeah, it's very much done because they're you not.

We were done and really drive retail.

We were we were we were at the finish line, and then we found out they actually give us free land for parks and roads.

So we we put a pause and said, let's go back.

Pull that out.

They had to they had to redo the studies, redo all the property parcel information that took them now three months.

I'm hoping we can get them to finish line by the October 14th meeting.

Because they're for parks and percentage of it.

It will greatly reduce.

And what I the numbers I put in here and what I'm I'm expecting us to actually spend.

For example, the BMX, I believe we budgeted 1.6 million or point 1.0 instead of the 1 million.

So I think we're gonna see a savings of six or 700,000 dollars in land cost.

Same thing for the reservoir.

Yeah, there should be a at least a not gonna be as much, but there should be a carve out for a road access or a public road through there.

I just know the infrastructure is in and done.

And so at this point, it doesn't go through.

We have a problem.

Yeah, we're we're pushing, and they they're well aware and um I I'm hopeful it will happen by the October 14th meeting.

What is the regional park engineering and construction oversight?

So that that goes hand in hand with the construction.

So anytime we have a big project, we usually have engineering oversight, construction oversight.

It's like the galloways of the world that we did for our station 32.

Then our design slash construction oversights to make sure that things are built properly.

Yeah, Steve sends uh probably a weekly email uh to the office that you got update.

Where's that?

Where's it out?

It has been over a year that we have been working with them trying to get that resolved.

And the good news is that it's getting better for us as we progress through the process, not worse.

Okay.

Does any of this that you have listed there impact the projected deficit for 2021 six?

I think it actually in the general firm basically washed.

It was about 442 net change from what about the rest of these items?

Um, so wrap taxes, most of that's carry over projects.

We have a five-year plan on that park impact, same thing.

That one we do have a projected deficit, but we are holding the money from the sale of cemetery land to cover that deficit until we can sell property by the Arts Academy on 3000 list.

Or better.

Uh park impact was budgeted, I think, close to five million, but with those those savings from the BMX potential savings from the BMX purchase, uh, that is that has been reduced.

I think he's asking for the general fund, but I'm asking, yeah.

I mean, are we doing today?

Does this help us or hurt us?

Because of the budgeted deficit, right?

Um, I'm not, yeah, for general fund, I'm not showing a big change.

It's it's minimal.

We did budget the half million, and I didn't put that in my note.

It was 523,000 deficit.

Um, if we if we didn't have any savings, that would be about a 1.9% reduction in our fund balance over the 14 years I've been here.

I think we've had a surplus every year anywhere from half million or up to a million dollars.

Uh saying that that past doesn't necessarily predict future, but I think our department has to do a great job in being frugal and spending money where they only need to and not spending every dollar in the budgets.

I think that goes a long way in uh building that surplus each year, and your utility funds that are not negative but are lean, um maybe anemic.

Uh storm and yeah, there's a few funds that are struggling.

Storm is one of them, secondary is another one.

Um yeah, we we've maximized what we can with our five-year plan to the point where we're we're sitting on on the line of of where I'm comfortable drawing money down any further.

Any other questions?

I have lots of questions, but not tonight.

Okay, then I will move us on from that item uh to item E, discussion regarding possible amendments to the Syracuse municipal code pertaining to availability of cemetery plots.

Preston, would you join us?

You're supposed to say I'm dying.

Yeah, no, I'm not because I can't buy a plot.

You might buy it too much.

Okay, so tell us where we're at, President.

Okay, did you guys all read this?

Do you need me to go over it?

We're limited in plots, obviously.

We really are only down.

I it was four when I set this out.

We're down to two plots that are right next to each other.

Sold.

We better get over there.

We actually did somebody called in uh today that was a non-resident.

We're like, no, just because I we want to take care of our own residents, obviously, first.

But that's what our race.

Yeah, that's what other cities have been doing.

Is this and so people will come here to get how we reclaiming 80 plots?

Go ahead.

You can so there are a approximately 80.

I thought it was only 65, but apparently the number has grown.

Yeah, it's grown.

Plots that were purchased years and years and years ago, like 50, 60 years ago, and have never been used.

Remember, we made a change to our ordinance earlier this year that said for those old plots, we will comply with the state law, and there's a process in the state statutes that allows us to give notice and then go back and take them back if no one claims them again.

So we are going to start that process in November and we'll see how many of those 80-ish plots we can get back into our inventory.

And they're up in the ABC section, like the older section of the cemetery.

Well, we're going to make sure to go through and check and make sure that nobody is buried.

They're not doing any double bookings.

Um, so that we're in the process of doing all that.

And Colin, of course, is helping get that ready.

So if we have that, then hopefully we'll have some plots back together.

That's horrible at a nail lady, let alone a cemetery.

So we're just recommending pre-made it, you can go right off.

Sorry.

We're not children.

You can't, but um, we're recommending that at this point until we get the expansion, even when we get those um 80 back that we only sell to residents who have who are our residents and who have somebody that's passed away at several cemeteries around us, do that.

That's a good idea.

And and so I think it makes sense for us to fall in line with that while we have a shortage.

I I mean, we're not in the business of trying to sell out the cemetery.

Well, look at the like the the tree pod things, like we could litter our cemetery with more trees that have people under.

Well, in our expansion, we have the crematorium, which I think will be useful because a lot of people are going that direction.

The thing with trees is roots, and even if you're buried, they go into they make damage.

That's why we don't have a lot of trees up there.

But um, yeah, we're permanent.

It's hard because there's only one plot.

So I think that we're not going to get a lot of of our residents to be happy because they can only buy one plot at a time right now, or they're they could buy five plots at their buttons.

But you can, like Julie said, you can um bury a casket and then have somebody clean in top.

So we can do that with the things to care.

And when I when I said we were going to start in November, we've actually started this summer.

We've done a lot of the identification.

Who owns the plots?

Who are the relatives of the surviving relatives?

So all of that work is done.

We'll be sending out the notices in November.

That's what we're then once we get that back, we can't.

But it is just another push that if we're gonna do a either get rid of the cemetery or you know, do an expansion.

And we do have a planned expansion.

Number one, our planned expansion is for.

Well, our planned expansion this year.

When yeah, when is when we can afford it?

Um, because we had a choice between regional park place one and cemetery expansion.

We could afford one, but not both.

So hopefully when we sell the property that's over across from the arts academy, uh calling the hot triangle because it's got a lot of hot interest.

Yeah, so we get that completed.

We will uh be able to fund this.

We have it on our plan as 2027, and we also have already designed it.

That engineering and designing is already done.

So it's just going to be it's really shovel ready, it's just not fund ready.

Yeah.

Okay, so if you're good with that, I that will become a back home, right?

Um item uh or vote on the next leader.

Is that that does not require anything special like a hearing?

So uh can we put that on consent, or would you like to review it again?

Consents, I don't know.

Yeah, okay.

We will make that a consent item.

Is that ordinance change?

Yes, it is okay.

So item F proposed uh legal defender agreement for the Syracuse City Justice Court.

Colin.

So apparently for years and years and years.

The Murphy and Murphy law firm, currently located, I think in Kaysville, has been providing public defender services for the Syracuse Justice Court.

Last year in 2024, they came in and they said we've only been getting 90 dollars per case forever, and we'd like a raise.

We had the money to give them a race, and so we built a stepped up thing for them.

They don't have a copy of it either.

They don't have a copy.

We don't have a copy.

To our knowledge, nobody has a copy.

I'm not sure there ever was a law.

I know this is Murphy law for at any rate.

You have before you a proposed contract that started that proposes to start on July 1st of this year with this fiscal year.

And go for the next two fiscal years as well.

Uh at the end of that time, we would rebid the services.

Maybe they'll get the contract again, maybe they won't, and we'll just see where we go.

But we figured better to have a written contract and to know how much it's going to cost us for the next couple of years that continue to wallow in darkness.

Sound like a plan you can actually fix the good old brace system.

This seems pretty straightforward.

Does anybody got an issue with that?

Great.

Um as this is a contract that involves money.

Did it go on consent?

I think, but usually money has to not do their own budget item.

Do we have a budget budget or do you have to change the budget because of this?

We do not.

But I don't think you do.

But it is a it does involve a prize.

So okay.

We'll find out if it can go on consent.

Are you okay with it being non-consent?

Yes.

So we will find out.

Um next is a discussion regarding opportunities to increase public involvement in volunteerism in the city uh for sponsored community service projects.

Sure.

Again, this is an item uh that comes up because we've had a few people reach out to not just myself but several other people and say, uh, hey, I heard about this somewhere else.

Why don't we have one?

All I'm concerned about is what can we do that would make it either more awareness to what we do, because there is volunteer hours happening every month, and it's on the manager's report.

It's not like this is a non-existent thing, but we haven't had really public projects like some of the ones that you see where uh they advertise for a month and they get a hundred people to come out.

So this is just discussion.

What can we do to get better press or involvement out of this?

Because I do think it generates uh community spirit and pride.

So we used to have a community cleanup day in May.

Well, we just used to have just a day of service, right?

But it usually ended up as staff and like three or four people.

So it wasn't really uh a community.

I think the biggest thing is if you're we're gonna do something, um, we plan it out well in advance.

Because a lot of time it happens, it's coming up, and we're like, oh, in August, and saying here this is, and it's got to be something um obviously budgeted for because if you're gonna do anything big, it's gotta you have to have a budget for it.

We can't just assume that we can just kind of throw things together rather quickly.

So I think that the ideas have to come early, probably obviously the first of the year, and when our we're putting our budget together, and then you can like start advertising.

Um, I have a question.

If if it's the community out that has been asking about this, why wouldn't we poll the community to see what type of service they could be interested in?

I saw about 30 people say trees at Rock Creek Park.

And and and we know that we've had this and we've planted trees there numerous times.

And I'm actually meeting with Andrea and John Taylor, Andrea Brown and John Taylor tomorrow to discuss whether we put trees there or somewhere else.

We're always willing to talk and and to do it, but Rock Creek is not the trees do not live.

We had a we had a community service project that came and put eight trees up on the berm, they're all dead and they've all been removed.

It's happened numerous times.

It's this the salt in there, and it's it's not it's not viable for the trees, and we don't have drip drip lines to the trees.

There's a lot that goes into it that to grow trees, and that's why.

And I think people don't realize that we have done that.

Um, but we have and we'll have a discussion with them tomorrow and see if there's other places.

But I if I could be candid with you guys, it's not that we don't, and every department doesn't want to do a lot of community service, but you have to realize that it's takes staff time and a lot of staff time.

It takes money, it takes coordination.

And so when these great ideas come up, you just have to realize that when you have a staff that feels like they're already drowning, to add something else on top of them to do it is big.

It's a big and and volunteers don't show up as much as the outpour of them prior to the event.

You get a lot of support prior to an event for oh, we'll help, we'll volunteer, and then you get very few people actually showing up to help.

But I think with what the mayor's saying is if we're going to do it like in September, like they do, because the people that are saying, oh, West Point did that, it's because it was that 9-11, and it was because stakes and wards and groups put together, that's when they're gonna show up.

So if that's a goal that we want to do and we want to make sure that we can do it in September, if we plan advance, have a good idea to come forward, a budget or something that we're gonna do to help raise money for it, then I think that we can do a big event like that.

People will come out because you know, stakes and awards are going to get uh involved in that and kind of yeah, I think like the consistency of having it the same day every year is a good idea that way.

People and obviously we can advertise for it on social media and things regular regularly.

I think the consistency would be better.

I think that if we're going to be successful at doing something like this, one of the things that we're gonna have to do is uh not only be really in advance, but I think we're all gonna have to kind of teamwork the support and then go around the different groups and uh you know, and all promote it as if this is a citywide thing, and um that's gonna take a lot of effort from everybody, but I think that we can you need to do it on the weekend adjacent because if you do it on a work day, then you'll have less of a turnout.

Sure, most people look at September 11th off.

Yeah, and it's uh I agree.

Yeah, well, I don't think I don't think the way they've been doing it, it's not on September 11th.

I mean, I'm gonna be honest on from our department.

It's hard in September because we lose all of our seasonals pretty much in August.

So it's it's it's tough to do, and that's and I think that's why there's never been like a big push um to make sure.

But I guess like the mayor has said before, it doesn't have to be just one department, it can be a citywide thing.

And now they do the 9-11 day of service as a throughout the month, so they do it the weekend before and after, and some projects even are ongoing for a couple of weeks.

It just depends on the organization, and we could we could support some of those, or we could or whatever, but I I think that the point is is we'd like to get a little bit of uh feeling that something is happening in our city because a lot of these projects are kind of like region-wide.

Yeah, what we did this year was was essentially that we were we were promoters of the projects that were already happening in the city.

So there's a there were stakes doing you know, day of service uh companies putting together a day of service, and they're all happening here in Syracuse, and our our role that we did this year without you know having uh a project that we wanted to do.

Um we were the we were a promoter of all of those right now how and I think that what I'm suggesting is we either need to decide that we're either going to be in or on try and get the press for it, or that we're just gonna continue along that path.

But it needs to be a conscious effort because when we get people that reach out and say, Why is it that we don't do this?

Well, we either it's a conscious decision and we respond that way, or uh we say, Well, we promote this one instead because this is what we actually have success with.

Yeah, there are opportunities in Syracuse to do service project on 9-11 week.

Um, and we can have our own, or we can promote the ones that are that are happening.

So this is a uh you know, discussion for you know what can you bring to the table as far as to make improvements or what are you interested in to make improvements here, if any way that we get advertisers to we can't do it, but you know, to bring back the newsletter, that's that'll take the newsletter was probably to one people of what's going on.

A lot of people are okay, you know, online but we don't have a lot.

I was just gonna say I didn't see any of that online.

I don't and if it's just a matter of just informing the community what's what's happening, we we do that in that online thing.

Thank the volunteers for stepping the eggs and thank them clouding the pockets and things like that.

I think if it's just every month we can monthly, I don't know how, but the newsletter that Kara puts together that's the digital, but I mean uh we're not seeing a volunteer project every month, but we see volunteers almost every month, but it's we guess some of it's court mandated, you know, some are small, some are larger.

We had people that planted trees over the pickleball courts.

We have kids coming in and pulling weeds and maybe I don't feel like courts are court mandated as a volunteer.

Okay, so that's that's that's volunteer.

Yeah, that's the later I'm not signing stuff, but it's still helpful.

So I think I should make them do tweets for reporting that in our in our whether online as people yeah, that's form.

month but it's we guess some of it's court mandated you know some are small some are larger we had people that planted trees over at the pickle wall courts we have kids coming in and pulling weeds and maybe I don't feel like courts are court mandated is volunteer okay so that's that's that's voluntole yeah that's the later I'm not signing stuff but it's still helpful so I think I should make them do we're reporting that in our in our whether online as we're people yeah mat's form I don't know you said that they're comparing us to other cities yeah so like this year West Point did a really good tree planting project as part of their 9-11 and I had some people who are here saying why is it I can go plant trees there we need trees here and I said well you're right we do need trees and we've actually had some very successful tree planting projects but the trees die and we're trying to figure out how we can get trees in those locations because yeah everybody wants trees at Rock Creek Park but we've not been able to find a way to make them live at Rock Creek Park.

And I know that Tuscany had a lot of tree die during the drought because we had a couple of years there where we had some good growth and was nice to have those trees but they all died during drought.

So um and you have to have staff there because that's one of the ones we had that was planted wrong and we had to come back and replant all of them.

Yeah the unfortunate thing the only kind of tree that grows in ground is a trash tree so like your poplars or your corkscrew willows or things like that that just constantly litter off of themselves that you got to continuously clean up.

Yeah one thing that I think was successful that I heard feedback was that uh because I mentioned to one of the people who called me I said well sometimes we struggle to get things done in a way that the trees will live and they said well actually at the West point when they said they they started with like a 10 minute here's how you have to do the tree plant and so that it will live we'll see if that was effective because we'll see over the years if all those trees live or die but we could do that something like that where we say okay you know volunteers every 10 minutes we're gonna go through uh this is how you do it or you know or just joining shoveling dirt I don't know but the point is is that we are you know there are ways to get people uh up to par and what is the cost of that in the long run how much does it cost to pull those dead trees out how much manpower does it cost to pull those dead trees out if they weren't done right and what's the point of doing something if it's not done right and it's gonna die anyway.

We're not saying planting trees would be a bad it's just it couldn't be picking up just an example they don't enjoy picking up little weeds we do that's court mandated ones and the court mandated ones we always have people do that and ask to them do that and then they're like no we don't want to do that.

They want to do something live not bad.

Yeah are you staffed where you can provide adequate time to deal with this it no that's yeah if we have enough time planned but what I'm saying is is that it does take time.

So if you're saying that you're gonna want somebody staff there watching every tree get planted no we're not or you know it it does take well any time any kind you do a community service whether it's for our department or any other there's going to be staff related to it because they're not going to come and dig the holes you can't do that we're gonna have to take holes or we're gonna have to remove stuff so that you can put mulch in there's going to be staffing at that at that time so it it does add a layer it's not saying that we can't do it but it does add more stress to the staff.

The thought that community service is actually free is it's not it's not pulling weeds and picking up garbage is yes pulling weeds and picking up but they don't want it's not one that's wants to besides the bat do it yes and the worldly lights on the well if we do that if we promote a weed pulling and trash pick up event we still get the press but nobody shows up why not to oversee it we we'd have to have press is that we just do that that much we did do that last year that was our thing along West Avis corridor yeah but they they didn't have a big crowd yeah they have the people that exactly and so the people that showed up was mad because they had to do a lot of the work I feel like but they might have enjoyed it was not fun for them I don't think but but I do think you know one of the things that I'd like to get out of this discussion is if we see an opportunity where many hands make light work type situation because we've had people come in and say hey there's there's an area that I'm not happy with and I say well then what would you propose we do to fix this because it takes manpower and money and there are people who've said for example one of the example product or projects that we have not tackled is people said what if we did some kind of landscaping under the freeway overpasses because that is uh something that we you know we have to do sometime it's just some dirt so now it would require funding so we'd have to come figure out how to put that in and if it's not in our budget I'm not sure that I we're in a position to pull that forward well but if you get a lot of people saying I'm willing to put in the labor maybe you get some benefit maybe you don't well I mean you lose flowers and ranabouts so they can get driven over that's not cracking.

Well, I mean, you lose flowers and ranabouts.

So we can get driven over.

Oh, that's not crap.

Well, what are zero scale?

I mean, we listed a couple of things that we're already doing.

I mean, are there events that we're already having that we already have staff that we can couple with community service that's we're already doing and saying, hey, if you want to do community service, we could use help with these things that we're already doing.

Yeah, we do that now.

Like the pumpkin walk, we have a group that's coming in and going to help put out pumpkins the Wednesday night before, where like myself and Leslie are usually there too.

Like anybody sign up to do that.

Yeah, maybe we just need to promote those things that we're doing a little bit better if there's not staff that have additional volunteers for the Easter eight, huh?

Yeah, I mean, we couldn't honestly we couldn't do the events we do without our volunteers.

Yeah, they stuff the eggs, they they carve the pumpkins, they help set out the pumpkins.

There's a lot that they yeah that we do.

And I also think like to the mayor's point, like if there's a uh project that we're doing, you know, chat had a great idea for you know country grove, um, and redoing that, but we didn't get any volunteers to come out and do it.

But if we know that we're gonna do that and we can put it out in enough time, then that's saving us because we were already going to do it anyways, and then it's more hands.

So I think that we could look at I think at things like that where we're already projects we're already planning on doing.

Yeah.

Make in the community aware that we have projects, these are what they are.

Okay.

This is happy to solve tonight, but I think that it was we had extra time tonight.

I thought it was worth discussion.

Uh appreciate your input.

The next is uh we're gonna discuss regard the purpose of mayor council announcements and the agenda item listed uh for council business.

Uh this actually happened right before I took office.

They said, well, we're not getting reports on the specific assignments of council, and some of these have significant reports that do need to be made.

Um, I can appreciate some of them happen in email, and that's the appropriate thing.

For example, uh Paul puts out a regular uh planning commission report, and I think that's good.

Um there are other assignments, and some of them don't need to be reported on every month, but I think that we need to see more reports.

So the question is uh is this the appropriate time to put it on the agenda, or is that should we just relegate them all to email?

I think it's worthwhile to have each of those items, each of those committees addressed during this time.

So I think, yeah, if we're serving on a committee, we should make sure we are providing updates on what's happening on the committee as part of this.

Is that what you're asking?

I feel like yeah, so so for example, I think it's definitely appropriate for me who was on the the trash board, the Los Angeles Waste Board to give updates on what's happening on that board.

And but I don't think it should be limited to that.

I do think there's other items in the city that we each serve on lots of different committees that could also receive updates.

I agree.

I feel like this is the only opportunity we get to talk freely about things that are coming up, things that we need to address.

You have a habit of limiting us on things that we talk about in the interest of time and following it up with, but I don't have a vote.

And this is the only time we get to address specific items that you shut us down on, and you do that regularly.

So I feel like this is the only time anybody on the council really gets to say anything they want to say.

Any other time, if we weren't on the council, we get three full minutes if we want to say something.

So we're elected on the preface that we discuss things, we talk about things, we go through things, and we vote on things, and we were elected for the way we fill and present things, and you limit that regularly.

I think that it has to be limited by the laws that of the land, which says that if it's not um an item that is advertised, we are not to have open discussion about it.

Colin, is that that is the open and public meetings at is it relevant to this specific topic of announcements?

So if if it's a specific, if it's announcements that council is announcing, are we supposed to put that on the agenda beforehand now?

You mean specify what you're gonna talk about?

What we're talking about, I don't think it requires that.

Okay, but you do have to have the agenda item that says you're gonna have the discussion.

I don't really feel that I'm shut down or can't discuss things openly that are on the agenda or things like that.

I always feel like I'm able to voice my.

I do want to make sure this this continues on.

I do think this is a good thing that we should continue.

I'm not sure what the topic of does discuss.

Well, the point is is what is the what is the purpose and where does the limitations because it's uh want me using it as a soapbox, but keep in mind I've only got two of these meetings left.

So it's no longer me that will be suppressed from saying anything, it's the rest of me.

But I think that I think this is appropriate too to give kudos to different organizations that things have passed in a while.

I I don't see any need to change this as it exists today.

You guys can I don't think so either.

I I don't think that we should be necessarily attacking one another during the open comment section either.

I should have a sense of decorum in the meeting.

So the the purpose of this would be to call out uh things to that the public should be aware of as far as reporting on an assignment.

It should be related to an assignment.

And uh it's not or a city specific item, correct?

No, not necessarily.

So you don't we're not supposed to talk on anything else except our specific assignments.

That's it.

Nothing else that comes up in the city, anything like that.

We're supposed to talk about go ahead.

So you're limiting it.

I'm not limiting it.

The law limits it.

My job is to make sure that we try to stick within the boundaries of the law.

So the law limits what is on the open and public meetings act that we put on the agenda, which also includes council announcements, right?

So council announcements represent what us as a council feel like we are announcing at that time, or otherwise it would be on the agenda, correct?

Like we would have to put on the agenda what we were announcing.

If it's a discussion, I'm asking him.

Okay, if it's a discussion, I would say yes, it should be on the agenda.

If it is an announcement, pumpkin walk is coming up soon, Easter egg thing is happening, whatever.

We're having a service project, any of those things I think are fair game under announcements.

Obviously, committee reports are fairly gum under committee committee reports.

If it's something other than that, then you're not to think about whether it should be on the agenda as a separate item.

Okay, thank you.

Well, this is what this has kind of been intended to be.

I mean, if you want to rename it, we can rename it.

Well, so I actually think there should I think mayor council announcements are one thing that represents some of those things, but I think an actual report, I think every anyone on one of these committees should give at least an annual report, if not a semi-annual report.

So like announcements slash reports.

Well, I I think I'm treating the announcements separate as one thing.

I think anyone serving on a committee, like like um Was H integrated waste, mosquito abatement, where they are actually members of a board that is governing that are supposed to be representing the city's interest on that board.

I think they should be uh they should they should need to present a report again annually or semi-annually.

I agree with the council idea of what is going on on that board that they are representing that this council on.

I would agree with that.

So let's go ahead and play that out a little bit.

You sit on one of these committees, and um when things come up, should you wait for your next schedule time, or should you just bring things to us for feedback?

I I think I mean, obviously, they should come forth.

Like I believe I need a half hour presentation on recycling earlier this year.

I agree.

And I'm I'm playing it out and saying that when I think that I think that that was rightly an agenda item where I discussed what was going on on the board and how it affects the city.

Because I don't think I don't think the presentation you gave would have been necessarily appropriate for another leader.

Yeah, but I think every report, I think everybody representing a board should have to give maybe not a half hour presentation, but at least a five to ten minute presentation on here's what's going on on the board, here are the new things going on, here are the things that are coming up.

I know it's presented um in emails, but I think that should also be something that is presented to the public.

Yeah, I agree.

So I think what I'm hearing, tell me if I'm wrong, is an agenda item for committee reports, and you could plug those in and maybe come up with a schedule as to when you're gonna do those.

But I agree with I agree with the mayor.

Don't wait for the annual report to say something that's happening now.

So agenda item for committee reports, an agenda item for council announcements.

Other things should be separately listed.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, but yes, I I do think we on boards could do better at presenting what is happening.

Well, I'm I'm gonna say that there is some uh variance there because, for example, when I get feedback on the board that I sit on that is just of reflective of like EPA feedback, it's kind of boring.

So I put it out in an email.

Don't think that it's really something that lots of people are gonna talk about.

So, but I do think that it's something you all should be aware of because it maybe impacts the potential for rate changes or the potential for management of that decision.

But um I think that what Paul does is a really good summation of a meeting that we're going to all act on.

So I don't know that that needs to be on our scheduled agenda.

I agree.

I don't consider that as a board though, because I'm just a liaison to a committee.

And that's why I don't really much, I don't give very many verbal announcements because I've already centralized that fits very well in mayor and council announcements for the committees you serve on.

But if you serve on a board that is represent that that the members of the community are beholden to being represented, like for example, like mosquito abatement would have a community uh would have an agenda item for the announcements that this is what's going on in Syracuse.

This is what happened last year, this is the growth this year, agree that kind of thing, but it wouldn't be in the announcements, it would be a report.

Like I know, for example, like West Nile virus was found in the community.

I mean, those types of things we we should try and time things in the the for the committees that would probably be timely.

Um I like the idea of the the board reports, yeah.

I think but then with the announcements, I mean, I like I think it's awesome to give kudos on things that have happened, you know, whatever during the week or the month or whatever.

But I mean, our announcements.

Can I get up and give a five?

Can I give a five-minute speech on my opinion on XYZ or what?

Like what is the what is the purpose of the announcement?

Does it need to be limited to the city business?

Where do we draw the line on what we can kind of this and the next agenda item are on this because of what happened last year?

I mean, yeah, we stop dancing around this.

The question is, was that broken before?

And the answer is it it wasn't broken.

Council announcements have been fine.

The question is whether a council member can have a voice and there's a means to do that.

They can ask to be put on the agenda.

And if they can't, two council members can get it on the agenda.

There's a mechanism to get this done.

I don't know why we're spending 20 minutes dancing around something.

Let's just deal with it and get on to the next thing.

Well said.

How would you like to deal with it?

Well, is anything broken?

I don't think anything broken.

I think we move on.

And yes, there's a better way to deal with things.

And I think we can work with that.

I think the benefit could be is it are the five of you in agreement on the on what can be brought forth in announcements and what can't be.

Is there what are the bounds?

Can you can you do a five uh a five-minute discussion on immigration that has nothing to do with the city, but is national immigration an issue to you?

You wanna you want to do an announcement on it?

Can you do that?

But I also don't think I could should spend three minutes telling everybody how horrible Jordan is.

Hey, and why I just I mean, I'd need at least 15 minutes for that.

That's a hypothetical, right?

At least say that's a hypothetical.

Yeah, I don't think I should do that during announcements.

Well, I did.

I'm not sorry for it.

And it is what it is, but no, the rest of it relies on you guys because I'm in two months left.

I'm just saying I think the benefit of the view is are you in agreement on what that agenda item is for?

So I think that's I feel like if you've got anything to say that has about the city on city business or anything within the city, and you were elected to council, you say it.

That's the point and time of it.

We don't get three minutes in the beginning or three minutes to stand up in front of everybody.

That's the only time we get, unless we take to the internet mob and start crying on social media.

So going forward, I don't think that I don't think there's been an issue up until this last go-around of everything that's gone on.

Now there's an issue that's been raised.

The question in my mind is there a mechanism to address the things that council member Carver wanted to address.

I think the answer is yes to that.

If it's put on the agenda, there may be a way to do that.

And this needs to be limited to what it's been historically.

Doesn't that resolve it?

I agree with that.

Yep.

Let's get on with the next thing.

Okay, I will move us on Colin.

Moving on.

So I have given you a summary of the provisions of the city ordinances and the provisions of your policy that was adopted when I do not know, but apparently some years ago.

And a couple of provisions from Robert's rules of order and a pretty unhelpful um quote from the Utah Code.

Bottom line is the mayor is in all of those places, the presiding officer of the council and has the responsibility to maintain oram and decorder.

Order and decorum in the meeting.

Sorry about that.

Um there are a couple of conflicts that you'll see there.

There are some things that maybe we ought to tweak.

I'm not saying that we should do an entire overhaul.

One of them that I pointed out is that under our city code, um, if there is a disruption of the meeting, and now I get to put my glasses back on, that it takes an affirmative majority vote of the members to find or expel a member.

And in our policy, it says it takes a two-thirds vote.

Those ought to be the same.

I don't care which way we go, but we ought to either say majority vote or two-thirds vote, and that ought to be cleaned up.

Now, one of the interesting things about in Utah code it says six member council from municipal, which makes we are a six-member council, and uh gonna say that, but you go ahead and say it.

Oh, I thought you were contesting that we're not a six-member.

No, I was actually agreeing with it, but you can you can find it.

That's too late now.

Yeah.

We are a six-member council.

We are according to one member of which is the mayor.

Yeah.

Okay.

What else was there?

Nope.

That I was gonna make that clarification that that in that case, um, two-thirds is not a majority in a six-member council.

That's right.

I'm I'm sorry, that's correct.

Sorry, sorry, three, just have having three is not a majority.

So you'd have to clarify that it would have to be four of six.

And that's why I would like to do something to get the clarification.

Is it three or is it four?

I don't care which.

I just think we need to say it the same and and apply it the same after we say it.

I think the intent was the three thirds is so in a four of six.

It's in that in that situation where they're actually voting on it, it would be three out of the or four out of the five, or was three out of five.

That's and I also think that if you're gonna have that vote based on something that's happening right now or just happened moments ago, it should be limited to the members of the council who are present.

I think we should say that.

So is it two-thirds of the people who are present, or is it at least three of the people who are present, right?

And and does the person eventually getting ejected get a vote?

I would believe that person should get a vote, but I'm going to assume the vote will usually be a negative vote, although I don't know.

I agree.

Because they're still part of the council spirit get a vote, yes.

So it would be a majority of the people present.

We're saying are we just going to go two-thirds or the majority?

I mean, it should be the same.

You I agree, it should be the same, and I don't care which it is.

I actually think if you're going to do something that serious, you probably ought to go two-thirds, which means that you're gonna have to get four votes.

You're gonna probably have one vote against it anyway.

So pretty much everybody's gonna have to be there and they're gonna have to vote as a loss.

Pretty much unanimous except almost unanimously, yeah.

You good with that?

Uh-huh.

Okay.

Um another one is can the can the mayor call a recess under the current rules.

It says there has to be a motion.

Well, our mayor doesn't usually make motions in a six-member council.

So under our current policy, it says um a motion shall be made to break for a specific purpose while also stipulating a specific time to reconvene the meeting.

So the motion would be I call a re I'd like to move the recess for 10 minutes so that we can all cool down or whatever the situation is a call for a motion.

He can call for a motion, but he can't make the motion, and that's in conflict with the mayor's general responsibility is to maintain or that is in conflict with what Dave Church used to say too, and that is that in the event of breach of decorum, it is the mayor's responsibility to call for a recess until order could be restored.

And so I think if we're gonna go there, which I have no problem with, we ought to clarify that that's the gonna be the rule.

So that we are that the mayor is allowed to make a motion in that instance, or that or that he can assembly call the recess until order can be restored.

Is the going league Utah League of Cities uh standard?

I'd like to have it clarified so that we all are on the same page.

So the question is can the mayor unilaterally call a recess, or does the council vote on it?

That's the question.

That's a good question.

Well, and I think that this only applies in the event uh this only applies in the event of disorder, yes, or lack of decorum.

And you also have the the mayor would also have to specify a time limit for the recess.

Yes, I think any of you could make a motion.

We need to take a plotty break.

Let's break for 10 minutes.

Fine.

Second vote, you're good.

This would apply in cases of alleged um decorum breach.

What if what if there's disagreement on when they reconvene?

So the mayor's to restore order to the he declares a recess, will reconvene in 15 minutes, and then someone could, I guess, make a motion to override the time frame.

I want to reconvene in five minutes, Mayor.

I make the motion that we're we reconvene five minutes, not good on the vote to override that.

So while the mayor I don't know.

Well, the mayor is responsible for keeping the forum in the in the meeting.

I also think there would have to be, I think there should be some agreement from council that yes, okay, we feel like there's a need for it.

So I almost think it would be mayor would call for a motion for it, and then we would have a response to respond.

Are we allowed to give him the ability to make the motion?

You can I'd be okay giving him so all he needs is a second, but I do think there should be a second.

And then does he vote?

I like Paul's version better.

I mean, that still puts it to a vote.

I mean, still, yeah, you're putting it to a vote.

Because all we're doing is saying rather than he calling for motion, he calls for the motion.

We can then either agree or disagree.

It still leaves the vote.

We're saying there is uniform standard somewhere that there is no, that's why I'm saying, but I didn't have that idea.

There is idea in Robert rules pretty big resolved.

That's Robert Scale with this.

You see in Robert's rules, like I cited this the quotes on page two bottom of that rule 58 in case of fire, riot, or very serious disorder or other great emergency, the chair has the right and the duty to declare the assembly adjourned to some other time.

Now the question is excessive.

Me popping off at the mouth was not excessive.

That's I'm not causing a riot.

That's all he's would something like that qualify as a serious disorder.

And that could be debated.

Well, we have an issue here that you know, hopefully this doesn't happen, but in the event of lack of decorum, it has to be, you know, so we have to bring this back to a respectable meeting.

I I think Jordan's idea gives balance.

The mayor can make a motion, but has to be seconded, and then we would all have to vote on that motion.

And would you give a mayor the mayor a vote on that motion since he or she makes the motion?

It very clearly says a six-member board, six six member council form of municipal government, the chair and the council provides all meetings.

So I think in this instance, in the in this instance where I would give him a vote.

But but then if I allow him to but then it allows for a tie, we know I'm a tiebreaker.

So I I would almost think he'd have to still be the tie-breaking vote.

Right.

But pretty common at the if a person votes for or against that person cannot also break vote to break the tie.

So if you end in a tie, you don't take the recess.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Or could you if it goes in favor of whichever way the mayor voted.

Or not.

Or not.

No, or not.

I mean, you could is what I'm saying.

Yes, so I think I think in the event of a tie, it means there's obviously enough disagreement here that the continue.

Yeah, that the motion will pass.

Are you okay with inserting something like in Robert's rules on order in a very, very, very serious situation?

The mayor can just say it's a turn we got to get out of here before the roof falls in.

You know, and we should define what that is.

I mean, yes, if there's a fire, then yes, he can safety of the when when the safety of people are involved, yes, he can declare adjournment.

But when we physical safety, the roofs fall again, we're just waiting.

I don't know.

Let us go.

I believe it.

Aside from talking about the craziness that could happen, I think that what we do need to do is uh re-establish an agreement that uh the that order and decorum is our standard, and that we all aim to abide by it.

Sorry, personal rants are not acceptable.

That's I think that's a hard definition.

Because I I mean like like maybe I I think we need to do XYZ to park.

Say, hey, I really think this is I don't know.

Maybe maybe I think Paul needs to do better in and maintaining the trees in a park.

Okay, so and I'm like, I think this needs to be done better.

Let's assume for a minute that you get so passionate that you're yelling and screaming at Paul.

So I wasn't yelling and screaming, I can, but it wasn't.

Excuse me.

You're interrupting.

Now, what I would say is at that point in time, if the chair calls for restoring of order, that you would at least uh accept the call that you are you're considered out of order and should consider the way that you continue because it is a perception that it is the responsibility of one person, and I think that that's I'm not saying that that's the problem, but if it if it become reaches the level level that the meeting is no longer respectable, then it we have to agree that we're gonna take a step back and reassess.

And I think that that's I'm not saying that that's the problem, but if it if it become reaches the level level that the meeting is no longer respectable, then it we have to agree that we're gonna take a step back and reassess.

Isn't that what we're talking about now?

Making a motion.

This is where I'm I struggle because I don't know, especially where everything I'm seeing today in the press, in the government.

I I want to be very careful about restricting what people can say as long as long as they're being respectful.

Um I I don't want to be like, sorry, you can't say that.

Okay, so there's a well publicized incident in uh the federal government where two congressmen were just screaming at each other at the top of their lungs about who was right and who is wrong.

This would be uh I have you seen it where the chair and congressman Taleb were just screaming at each other about terminology.

That was useless.

And I think that the point is is you can have your own opinion, you can say whatever you want to say in a different way, but when you escalate to where you're just yelling at people, then it's no longer respectable for elected officials.

Is it the decibel level that you're worried about?

I think that the overall tone could be measured.

Are you being respectful and delivering something or not?

Your current your current rules under Fecorum say members of the governing body shall not engage in personal tax and shall restrict comments to issues before the body.

Okay, so your your current rules have a definition of what's restricted.

And then I'm okay with that.

I I just don't want it to be like if I don't like what you're saying, I have the ability to stop you.

No.

Now if there is a personal attack, then I'm okay if you're like, hey, I'm I'm sorry, but this I'm uncomfortable with it.

I think you have the ability to that.

Comments need to be restricted to an issue that the body is dealing with, not between two people.

Yeah.

Well, and I because I think we have constructive debate or disagreement where it's point counterpoint.

Sometimes we have to remind each other to hey, let us let me finish you interrupted me, but I still think we do that in a in a manner that's that's following these rules.

Announcements should not be a time to spark uh discussion.

Announcements should be a you say your thing and it should not be a time to introduce a new topic.

And that is the point of this discussion.

Totally agree with that.

Um can, but I do think it's it is a time to bring up things you like to talk about in the future.

You can.

I think that's perfectly legit as long as you're not saying let's talk about it now.

Um, but I I want to I want to be careful.

I don't know, I'm not sure if I like comments to comments to issues before the body today.

I think it could also address things that could be before the body in the future.

Yeah, so we probably need to clarify that.

There's no time stamp on that sentence.

It could be in the past, it can be present or the future.

Today is a relative term, I think, to current in this case, I would I would deem it that is it currently being addressed by this body.

So I I think this should be expanded this a little bit to say comments that have been are currently or will be in the future before the body.

Because if we're making an announce, if we're making announcements, then one of our announcements is I would like to discuss this at a future council right meeting, then we we can easily get you know another agreement for that to have it be put.

And I think that on the agenda, I'd still like to have that.

I think we need to clarify that verbiage on that.

I've got a note there.

Okay.

Um, but beyond that, I think this actually addresses it.

I I don't think it's a time for me to call something out specifically, especially when it comes to um a personal issue.

I think those should be reserved for either a closed sessions or discussions with a with a person.

Okay, so one other thing that I was really surprised.

Yeah, I did not do this research, but it mentions in there that the penalties are uh exclusion or fines.

We have no schedule for when you should find a person for breach of decorum.

Is that something that we need to address?

I don't think it's appropriate.

Is that a probably one?

I I think generally the way legislative bodies deal with this is they do a reprimand.

And I think that's probably all I'm willing to do.

Or you to as a whole, are you saying take fines out?

I would it's in there now.

Yeah, well, it was just so many places that it's in there is Roberts.

We don't we can't adjust that.

I I do not think we should ever be fining each other because a lot of us are meeting or yeah.

Oh, let me do it.

Let me set it.

Well, it does it does currently say a council member, maybe finding or a little limited level of three thousand dollars.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm not I'm not trying to set that.

What I'm trying to do is bring it forward that no there is a responsibility here.

And if you had, for example, the city of South Salt Lake has actually banished somebody to Zoom.

I don't think that's actually right.

I think that they probably overstepped, but because they have someone who was consistently uh issuing outbursts, that's the path they chose, and it was widely discussed.

ULCT Spring conference.

Um But you can have the if someone is so disorderly that they're disrupting the meeting, they can be removed.

Yeah, and and that's a isn't that a misdemeanor possibly anyway.

It is actually at that point.

It is disorderly conduct if you have been told you're to leave, you're to leave the meeting and leave now, and the person continues.

That is a class C misdemeanor.

At that point, that had its own fine, and I don't have to define a uh whatever.

And our chief of police hopes never to have to do that.

I agree.

So I think we just address that a violations will be dealt with and according to the need.

And if that meet is a class C misdemeanor, Yowza, but uh that that would cover that.

I don't think we need to have a fine from the city council for being mean in the meeting.

I don't think it would be for mean.

It would be I'm just saying that's not covered by the meeting.

I'm just saying that that would seem like that would be the misdemeanor.

Sorry.

So if there's a problem, somebody can make a motion, the motion gets seconded, we vote just like we normally do.

Yeah, and that deals with it.

Yes.

And then if if somebody keeps acting up, then I guess you would have the ability to remove them to ask for them to be removed and not do it myself.

But would we still have to vote on that?

No, no, would but for another council member, we would.

Well, he's talking about after you've accepted after you've expelled uh person, you know, you don't vote again.

You just say, okay, if you refuse to leave, then you can the chair calls for assistance.

Okay, but I'm sorry, I thought Brett's motion, Brett's discussion was we'd have a motion for a recess and a second and a vote.

Whatever either, whatever the action is.

Okay, yeah.

Somebody makes a motion, it gets voted on whatever happens.

But to clarify, I think the mayor has the authority to remove somebody on the council only after the council has expelled that person.

So is there a different rule of order for that one?

There is because you uh if you have a disruption in the audience, the mayor can have them removed without a vote.

If there's a disruption on the council, the council would have to agree, and that prevents the mayor from taking privilege of removing somebody for the purpose of changing the dynamic of a vote.

And I agree with that wholeheartedly.

It should only be in a situation where somebody is refusing to be compliant with the rules of order.

That makes sense.

So because now the mayor can remove like someone in audience without the vote.

Sure.

So we so we have two votes.

We have one to go into a recess, or we have one to remove a member.

Or yeah, it's not you know, it doesn't have to be in sequence.

It can it can go right where it needs to go.

And that's also a majority.

Yes, but if uh but if uh a citizen or audience member is uh giving a if they refuse to be orderly, they could be they're not following the rules, they won't sit down for a few minutes the mayor and unilaterally, yeah.

Yeah, which has only happened once while I've been mayor, but uh you know it was it was appropriate.

The individual refused to finish.

Just so unclear on your motion to take a recess.

Do you want a majority vote of those present or two-thirds vote?

Whatever the standard vote is that we would normally do.

I would say that would be a majority for that one.

Do we want to up the ante to remove a member of the council or leave it at a majority?

Let's hope that we don't have to face this ever again, honestly.

Okay, at this point, I'm going to adjourn us from this meeting, and I will call to order a business meeting the Syracuse special business meeting, only for the uh consideration that we can go into closed session to discuss a legal matter.

Can I get a motion to go into close real estate matter?

Oh move, second.

Okay, all in favor?

I