Move item 10 up after item six.

Yes.

Uh we do have guests here for item 10.

So I'd like to get them a chance.

They don't have to stay all night if they don't want to.

Okay.

I will accept the amendment.

Thank you.

I have a motion and a second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed.

Okay.

Motion passes.

We have an agenda for tonight.

Um, we are going to start tonight with an invocation.

Jordan, would you lead us with that?

And then Jennifer, would you lead us with a pledge of allegiance?

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Our father in heaven, we are great if we gather together today.

Rightful as we uh end of this election season, we ask you to please bless the citizens of Syracuse, that they can be wise in the selections they make, that they can find those who represent them.

And we are truly grateful for the opportunity we have to live in this country of freedoms.

Please help us that we can be mindful of those freedoms and protect them in any way we can.

We can please work together in unity to make our community better.

We ask thee as we consider these items tonight that we can be blessed with thy wisdom.

We are truly grateful for the opportunities we have.

And this we pray in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Amen.

I pledge the United States of America.

One nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, everyone.

Tonight our first item of business, we have an appointment.

We have a new Syracuse City engineer.

Uh so item number two is a resolution to adopt that.

I have met with our new engineer, and I'm very comfortable with the uh recommendation from public works.

So um, can we introduce him, Robert?

Just really quick.

We didn't get the name before the agenda, so it's not on the agenda.

We don't need like everything, just keep it to an hour or less.

So this is Jeff Bonner.

He is a licensed engineer and put in for uh the job he uh I don't know.

I'll give him a minute to maybe introduce himself.

Just yeah, tell us where you're coming from, Jeff, and we're glad to have you.

Yep, came from uh West Tech Engineering, been there almost 20 years, and so been um engineering and loving it since then.

I'm excited to be here at Syracuse.

I love this place.

I live just uh exit over, so I pass it all the time.

Beautiful city, and excited to be here.

Great, thank you very much.

We welcome you and then I would need a motion to adopt our resolution 2539 to appoint him as the city engineer.

I move we adopt resolution R25-39, appointing Jonathan Barner as our new city Syracuse City Engineer.

Jeff, sorry, I thought I got read that correctly a second.

Jeffrey.

Okay, we have a motion and a second.

All in favor.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Welcome, Jeff.

You are now a member of our community.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

You guys jumped on my case, my bad.

It's mistake.

All right.

Moving on, we have public comment tonight.

Uh, to begin our meeting, we have an idea or an opportunity for citizens to bring any concerns they have forward.

This could be uh regarding an item that we have on our agenda.

If it is regarding one of the two public hearings, I would ask you to hold that for the public hearing so we can address it with the item.

But save those two items, which are nine and ten.

If you have any comments you'd like to bring forward or suggestions for future items that we should consider in the city, we are here and ready to listen.

Is there anyone who would like to come forward?

Okay, and seeing none, I will close public comment.

The next item, I have moved up uh mayor council and announcements.

Uh, we want to get this done early in the meeting.

So we'll start with you, Brett.

Do you have anything to report?

We do not.

I don't have anything, Mayor, today.

Okay, Paul.

Um, I've already sent out my email from the planning commission meeting, so I don't have anything to read.

Excellent, Jordan.

Uh, I don't have anything today either, other than I remembered.

Uh today is pretty much the last day to register for the haunted house competition.

Uh, it is awesome.

And anyone uh will be releasing that list here soon.

Uh go visit them.

These are fellow citizens that just do an amazing job.

They it's their passion and it shows.

Um go out, support them.

And yeah, we're looking forward to see who wins here in a couple weeks.

And of course, we have the pumpkin walk coming up.

Is that what you're gonna announce?

I'll leave that uh Jen.

All right, Jen.

I'm on uh from the 23rd, fourth, and fifth.

We have the pumpkin walk.

Everybody is excited for that.

We love that.

That's perfect this time here.

And the 23rd is night out at the museum.

So they tell haunted scary stories and stuff like that.

And if you haven't heard some of the scary stories from Syracuse, um, they're on the Syracuse City Facebook page.

They post one about once a week, and they're pretty awesome.

And yes, the police department is haunted.

Okay.

All right.

That's all I got.

All right.

So I do have a couple of things tonight to bring forward to everyone's attention.

A couple of things.

Number one, the arts council is uh seeking letters of interest for those who would be part of the professional staff for the summer musical.

This uh summer they will be doing Wizard of Oz.

So if you want to be a director or a producer or a set designer or costume designer, uh send your letter of interest because they're working on that now.

Um, their junior musical will happen on November 6th through the 8th.

It is Lion King Jr., and we have some wonderful kids in our community as part of that.

So if you're interested, uh tickets will go on sale very soon.

Um they also have on October 20th a concert called uh possibilities concert.

This was from our Syracuse City Orchestra.

They'll be playing music from How to Train Your Dragon and the Sorcerer's Apprentice and some other fanciful things that night.

So if you want the concert is free, it's a great opportunity to come out and support.

You see the date one more time on that one.

Yeah, that's October 20th.

It's a Monday night at 7:30.

And um then uh one other thing that I wanted to mention.

Uh this week was the North Day Davis Sewer Board meeting.

And uh this year, because there have been some really crazy things that have happened with state law.

I just wanted to give a shout out to our financial people because Syracuse was the only city that came out with a clean audit, meaning we made no mistakes with impact fees or new connections.

All of the other cities had some significant uh challenges because of all the changes, but our people were way on top of it.

So I wanted to shout out and say thank you to those in finance that kept it uh all together.

And um last thing today, this afternoon, I attended a meeting, uh an online meeting with the entire state with mayors from all over, talking about plans that different cities are making for the 250th anniversary of the constitution and things that they're starting to do with their plans.

I plan to or to start this and probably use a citizens committee as part of that, but that will happen in November, says we get started because we will have that anniversary coming up next year.

Okay, so those are my announcements.

The next item that I have here is item number five, approval of minutes.

We have minutes from September 9th, and that is our regular business meeting.

We have September 23rd, which is our regular work session.

And that night we did have a special work session or special meeting uh because we had to go into closed session.

So I have minutes from those meetings.

Can I get a motion or are there any changes that need to be made before we approve those?

There's any changes.

A motion to approve.

Motion made and second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, that is taken care of.

And then I'll go to our consent agenda.

These are items that were discussed on a previous work session and seem to have consensus among all council members.

The way we handle our consent agenda is any council member could take it off for further discussion.

But seeing a general consensus, we I or we can do these in one motion.

Our consent agenda tonight is authorize the mayor to execute the legal defender agreement for the Syracuse City Justice Court.

This is uh something we've had ongoing many years, but we seem to have not had a contract.

So we're going to have one.

Item B is proposed ordinance 25-37, adopting Syracuse Municipal Code Section 4.30.140, temporary restrictions of sales of new cemetery certificates.

And item C consideration of counseling the November 11th meeting, which is a business meeting, and the November 25th meeting, which is a work session, and calling a special meeting on November 18th.

Um, and that would be a combined meeting.

And the purpose of that is November 11th is a holiday for all employees.

So we're not bringing them in for that date.

Item uh 25 is the week of Thanksgiving, just a couple of days before, and we want to give our employees a chance to travel for Thanksgiving.

And we already have to have a meeting on the 18th because we will have to by law can't or certify the canvas election results.

So we're gonna do them all in one.

Is there anybody who has a question or discussion item on any of those consent?

Okay, then I would take a motion to approve the consent agenda.

I move that we approve the consent agenda as outlined in number six.

Second.

Okay, motion made and seconded.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion passes unanimously.

Okay, now we're going to jump down to item number 10 because we do have guests here and we want to be respectful.

Uh I know that some of the folks that we've worked with on this project are not all in town.

So just want to not force you to stay here all night if we can.

This item is proposed resolution R24-41, approving the sale of real property located at uh 3,000 West Antelope Drive to Hawkins Development LLC and authorizing the mayor to sign closing documents.

Now, what this is is we are going to enter into a memorandum of understanding that will uh that uh if it's all fulfilled will become uh the development agreement for this property.

And um we've talked about this because it's real estate and had terms.

We did not discuss this in a public session before, but it has now been published and uh this is standard for cities.

We don't discuss real estate until it comes to a vote.

So that would be the item.

It is a public hearing.

So if there is anybody that wants to come forward, I will have a public hearing.

You are welcome to come forward and uh give us your input if you would like.

Seeing none, I will close the public hearing.

Council, do we have any further discussion of this item?

I I just have a couple of points to make.

Uh I I'm not adverse to this.

I think it could be a great thing for you to talk into your mic.

Can't hear you.

That matter.

I'll keep going.

Your loud voice gonna have to put mine in.

There we go.

Got it.

I was just going to say that I'm not uh against this project.

I think it can be a great opportunity for the city.

Uh I I think it is noteworthy that this is just a memorandum of understanding.

This is not a contract, a development contract.

Uh, I think that is an issue.

I also think it's important to note that uh Hawkins development has the ability to withdraw from this uh arrangement at any time prior to closing.

Uh I hope that does not happen, uh, but it could happen.

I'm not sure what the $100,000 uh performance bond is at the uh outset of this.

And I also think it's important that while this could be a great revenue generation for the city, uh, it's not going to happen potentially uh until April of 2029.

That's all I have.

So I I want to throw something in there for the folks that are really, really, really, really hoping for a Chick-fil-A that is on the list for this.

And uh if you didn't have a chance to look at the packet, some of the approved substitutes for that are Red Robin, Longhorn, Outback, Texas Roadhouse, Cheesecake Factory, PF Chains, Market Street Grill, and Goodwood Barbecue.

So that's kind of what we've heard a lot of the people online on the Facebook city pages yelling about what kind of restaurants they would like to see here.

So hopefully that fits the bill.

And I won't be um up here for when that takes place, but I would love a cheesecake factory.

Y'all, I don't care what anybody says, it is a date night location, and you call them and send them this video.

We would like to.

Is it just Chick-fil-A or is it Chick Olive Gardens?

Yeah.

Here's the thing.

Um, we already have some legitimate interest from uh Olive Garden.

Chick-fil-A has already shown legitimate interest in the city.

The reason for the clause in there that they could get out of Chick-fil-A is really because if they come somewhere else, if they can't wait for this project to develop and they come somewhere else in the city, it would not make sense to put a second Chick-fil-A in the city.

So that gives them an automatic out and an automatic chance to replace that.

So I just want to say there isn't a PF Chang, a Market Street grill and a cheesecake factory anywhere in the local area.

Okay, so did so there are all acceptable uh uh substitutes, but the the point is is that we have a group who has relationships with some of these uh restaurants, and they believe that they can uh finalize the project.

So we put it in the contract that uh we would like that to be part of it because that's part of why we're entering this agreement with them.

It will take time.

We have no set schedule on this.

Hopefully, it will move quickly.

That's why we need to finalize this tonight.

Is there anyone else who has any comments on this before I take a motion?

The only comment that I'll make is I I think this is a great move for our city.

I think that is the perfect location for this type of development.

Um, and this is the type of thing that we need to add to our uh our city for much needed sales tax revenue.

So I know it's not overnight, but it it's certainly a step in the right direction.

Oh, there's a hotel here too.

Yep.

Okay.

All right.

So can I get a motion to approve this resolution?

My motion that we approve to authorize Mayor Mon to execute real estate purchase contract for properties located at approximately 3,000 south and 2400 west.

That's the wrong one.

That's no, this would be 3,000 US and Lope Drive.

Oh, wait, wait, number 10.

So it would be resolution R2541.

Okay.

Proposed resolution R25-41, approving the sale of real property located at 3,000 West, Antelope Drive to Hawkins Development LLC and authorizing the mayor to sign closing documents.

Second.

Okay.

Motion made and seconded.

Any uh are all in favor?

I any opposed.

Okay, that posted or passes unanimously.

And you thought question.

Uh item number seven is authorize Mayor Mon to execute real purchase agreement, uh Rep C for properties located at approximately 3,000 south and 2400 west.

Um this is a pretty no-brainer here, I guess, because we've got this already in process.

It's already been discussed, and the terms of the deal have already been discussed.

This is just authorization to finalize the deal.

Um do we need to discuss any particulars here?

Do you think, Steve?

I mean, we all know what property this is.

This is not unless you guys have questions.

Yeah, this is parkland that we've been working on for a couple of years.

We finally have all the documents in place to conclude this.

Let me motion for that.

Thank you.

Since I already did.

I motion that we authorize Mayor Mon to execute real estate purchase contract for properties located at approximately 3,000 south and 2400 west.

Okay, second.

All right, all in favor?

I any opposed that passes unanimously as well.

Item number eight is proposed ordinance uh 25-36, amending Syracuse municipal code section 6.10 relating to property maintenance regulations.

This is actually come to a business meeting and went back to work session and is back here again.

Council, are we comfortable with the current language?

Almost.

All right, Jordan, would you would you the only item that I wanted to address, and maybe this is uh Noah can help me with this one.

Uh is commercial lots.

So we have several commercial lots that are also just sitting there.

Um I would love this to serve as either a motivation for them to sell their lots or at least maintain them.

Is there anything we can do to add language in here?

Just to strengthen that up just a little bit on the commercial lots.

So currently for vacant lots is 12 inches, so there's weeds they have if they have to model weeds no matter what.

Are you thinking of like junk or other things?

No, that that's probably sufficient.

Um, I just want to make sure that that's being enforced because currently I I know that you dot gets away with a lot because we don't know how to find them very well.

But uh as far as our commercial lots, we need to be a little more diligent because it is getting really bad out there.

Okay, so uh if there's uh a company out there that does this kind of stuff, you can look online in the county website to find out who owns the parcel.

There's a moneymaker for you.

Call them and tell them, give them a rate and look at someone someone get on top of that.

There's a way to do the same thing that Max is out at 3,000 for them.

Yeah, but the it's probably cheaper for the for a company to work than than it is for the city.

I I just want to clarify the aside for you dot.

Uh it's not that we can't find them, but they call us back and say we're the state, you can't find us.

So it's not that we can't, but there's a little dispute there.

It takes fair.

Do you want a petty war you dot?

Yeah, no, I don't.

I'm just saying it's that that there's intricacies involved.

I know.

Yeah, needless to say, um, we do need to make sure that we are keeping all of our commercial entities, especially the ones that aren't that that just have land sitting there undeveloped.

We would really like them to move forward and heck, if this helps motivate them to take a step or to sell it to someone who would develop it, I'm good with that.

So are we making any changes to the way it's documented?

Oh, so I had a couple of things.

Oh, hey, I was expecting all.

I mean, I couldn't let it go without this.

So there's a couple of concerns I have with this, and I'm trying uh I don't think we're too far off, but I think there's some elements.

First of all, I do think this is gonna be a difficult one to enforce just because we're we're you know, stating site plans have to be have have to be followed, which is which is fine.

I'm okay with that, but I'm hoping I've I've got several recommendations for language, and so I'm hoping you guys will will listen to me.

So on in the first line, it's or industrial property to not maintain the elements of the site plan in a substantially similar condition.

I think we need to to add some language that allows for a little bit of flexibility.

All out sounds good.

Okay.

Um the the other the other things is in the maintenance includes replacing dead vegetation with similar plants rather than the language before was almost like the exact equal plants.

And then it says same or equal yeah same or equal so that's same or equal uh you want it to say similar instead I think to me similar is is a more flexible let's change it to similar that's great good with that change.

Okay now stay with me here.

Okay I'm sure so we also are saying we have to replace every dead plant with a similar and I'm saying like and I'm going for my experience on on the commercial property that that I have um there might be some plants that we might not want to replace or that it's not going to affect the overall appeal of the property if we don't replace every dead plant.

So I'm saying similar plants is originally installed but shall allow for a 25% reduction in vegetation not requiring every dead plant to be replaced.

So a 25% in reduction that from the original site plan fair valid go ahead.

I don't know if I'm okay with that that seems a little excessive well it's only 25% total so it's not like they can bring it down and then do another and then do if you have if you have three if you have three or four plants that die you can take all one yeah you can not replace one.

All right so I'm gonna weigh in here just with one thought I do understand where Paul's coming from because occasionally you have a situation where you struggle to get something to grow and in that case we'd rather have some substitute than a place that you just can't get a plant to grow right so I'm okay all right I would think the trees would need to I do like her exception to trees we trees would need to stay.

And yeah I'm okay if they move okay 10 feet to the left or the right here they walk lately what's that never mind going so in so in our development we have a tree that is is die has died it's in a weird location I can't move it 10 or 20 feet to the side there's no space for a tree it's in this weird juto and so I I would keep it at 25% vegetation.

Okay allow up to a 25% yeah reduction okay so I have to plan update so I'd have to go through the site plan and count every plant and then do math well you're having to do that anyway to enforce this.

Well if yeah if if there's a dead plant we just I'm just trying to allow a little flexibility in this I think this is a difficult one to enforce anyway so you are making it fair for both sides like this does that does make it fair for both sides a lot more I I can see it.

So I've got I've got a couple more sorry so I added a little bit of wording um so worn out site plan elements including wood or rock mulch so as to have no exposed weed barrier or barrier dirt.

So that was our that was our goal there.

So I was just adding language to clarify that's that's why we want that we don't want any exposed weed barrier or dirt okay okay that's fair um looking for where that is sorry um it's includes replacing missing broken or worn out site plan elements including wood or rock mulch and I'm just saying so as to have no exposed weed weed barrier or dirt.

Okay and then the next thing is we have to replace weed barrier and papers and all that so it's just a it's just a an addition to the wood or rock mulch to cover the weed okay okay and then so property owners shall sustain the site plan in compliance to existing ordinances and work to correct all maintenance shortfalls within a timeline agreed upon by the code enforcement officer and property owner um and property owner is what I'm adding the reason being and and you change established to agreed upon okay yes the reason I am doing that and maybe there's another suggestion but if the code enforcement officer comes to someone and says hey I want you you know the roof is worn out and you've got to replace it now and they have that roof they have that roof scheduled two years out I think the timeline has to be agreed upon I like that change.

I'm I well I'm concerned that that you've left the door open for them to just say I won't agree to a time okay yeah that's what I'm asking is when you say that and I learned this when you do this with the DMV like if it's or it's either or or and you need both so I so and is both and sometimes both do not agree.

That's a great so I I thought about that too and I haven't got that in but maybe a schedule that allows for a time frame and dollar amount that if the repairs exceed X amount it can take up to this long or something like that.

That's agreed upon between them or or or that or that that's what it states.

What I'm worried about is us enforcing a uh a site plan element that's worn out.

Maybe it's repaving a parking lot and there is just no budget for the next year or two and and that's when they've got it planned for and we're going to force anywhere from a 10,000 to 4000 repair in a year that they're not prepared to do it.

Those big money items are that makes sense.

But I I think the verbiage would need to be a little more detailed where it's not just they both have to agree but if they don't agree there has to be something I think you just leave with a timeline established by the code enforcement officer and the expectation is that the code enforcement officer is going to work with them.

Because I would throw out that that original verbiage works because I agree uh the applicant if they think it's unreasonable can appeal.

Okay.

So they it's not set on they can I'd like to keep it the way it is.

Okay.

I'm okay I'm okay with that.

The last one that I've got it is tacking on something at the end that we I think we use substantially changed or substantially and I think we need some sort of a clarification changes exceeding 25% well no substantially changed means alterations to the percentage of lot landscape number or size of parking spaces or additions or reduction in building size substantially change does not include aesthetic item such as paint awnings or equivalent landscaping solutions.

They still have to eat upkeep those types of things but those wouldn't be substantial changes where they have to resubmit a site plan.

Yeah.

Say that again I'm sorry.

Probably that second and third sentence is what so it it's it's requiring them to because we're requiring them to so you're substantial changes it says the wording right now says substantial changes to the site plan will require a site plan amendment as provided by 10.20.0.9 and you want to change it to what and I'm just tacking on and saying substantially changed means alterations to the percentage of lot landscape number of size of parking spaces or additions or reductions it helps define I'm defining what substantial change is I like that one too.

Yes all of them but this one to last the only thing that I would be curious about is so for you a substantial change is not mean redoing your landscaping alteration to the percentage of lot landscape alteration of percent but you can change any everything in it.

But but no we've already got language in there that requires to maintain it for the for the site plan.

Okay.

As long as long as those two go together then yeah I'm okay with that.

I I have a question what about like so um Carl's Jr by Walmart their fabric awnings wore out and then they just took the whole awning off right now if you guys have noticed that um would you consider that a substantial change um I I put onnings not in a substantial change.

So I think whether it is or it's not I think that we have to understand a couple of things about franchise businesses and that is that within so many years they're allowed they sign part of their agreement is allows them to change the outside facade of a restaurant for updating.

And uh if you're a franchise owner I I mean I've been through these agreements legally before if you're a franchise owner you have to take that on with a certain period of number of years not like on the spot but they're like say okay you have a five year window to update your facade from where it's at today to the current generation of facades so that you have the same look and feel as our franchise so we could not ever be in a position where we could threaten their ability to continue or to comply with their franchise rights because that that could throw them out you know and and we we're gonna have to deal with that.

I feel like on the language I proposed onnings would not be as substantial.

Only I feel like that's fair because awnings are one of those things that Syracuse weather is not friendly to.

They get ripped after after a certain amount of years most businesses take those down just because they get beat so bad by the wind.

Yeah.

So I guess my point is just in saying that we have to be open to if they come in and they say hey look this year all Wendy's are going to be changed to this look and it means we're going to change some siding and maybe an awning goes away or maybe a uh maybe something else changes that's part of being a franchise owner you agree to that so we don't want to change or chase our franchise businesses out of the city because of the way we wrote our code and this still this code still is a much it is an improvement and a much more stringent requirement for property for commercial properties to upkeep their properties.

Yeah, we just want to tow the line between making sure that the buildings are maintained and that they're just not lessening the architectural quality because when you remove architectural elements to never be seen again, the building is now no longer as designed and as attractive.

So we want to have attractive areas, but also be fair as a city.

Yeah.

I I feel this will accomplish that.

So I like all of your things except that second to last one.

Yeah, I'm I'm okay to let it go forward.

I think this is a great start.

We might need to tweak it again in the future, but I think this like you've mentioned this is a great improvement over what it was, and I I think this will help beautify our city.

So is there anybody who would like to make a motion based on everything?

I can try and make a motion.

Go ahead.

So I move that we approve uh proposed ordinance 2536 amending the series queues municipal code section six point one zero with the with the changes that were discussed in the meeting tonight, with the exception of adding um and property owner to allow for the property owner um in the section allowing them to correct items in a timeline.

So we'll strike that portion that we discussed.

Is that is that clear enough for the recorder and the department head that we'll get that correct?

I can provide a written copy of that to I'm getting the nod, and that's all I need.

We're good.

And it's on video.

Okay.

Yeah, that's enough.

I I would request that um council member Watson submit his writing great just for so we make sure we get it right.

So I will accept a second.

Second, it's seconded motion made and seconded.

All in favor?

Aye, aye.

Any opposed?

I always say nay because I don't understand anything that just happened.

Okay, that passes four to one.

Um the next item would be uh public hearing.

And this public hearing is uh proposed resolution R25-40, amending the Syracuse City budget for the fiscal year ending June 30th, 2026.

This is just uh the routine maintenance that generally that we do.

Uh Steve, are there any particulars that have changed since the last time we addressed it in a work meeting?

Yes, there is one I'd like to discuss with the council.

It is highlighted in blue in your pack it as a new item.

Uh conversion of our electronic accounts payable system or to an electronic accounts payable system.

And there it has some notes on potential savings.

There is an upfront cost and an ongoing cost of 8600.

5,000 of that is an upfront cost.

It's $300 monthly going forward.

But the time savings for our staff, both on on uh the department head side submitting accounts payable requests and on our accounts payable finance department.

Um you can see down there at the bottom the estimated savings would be about 26,000 dollars.

Now that that is staff time, so it's not like you're gonna recognize all that savings, but it does free up time, make us more efficient to do other things.

Okay.

Any other questions from council regarding the proposed changes to the budget?

We should have those good ones.

I have a super big savings like that in green.

Just look at this.

I like the blue.

Okay.

Uh seeing none, I'll take a motion.

Oh, wait, nope.

I was gonna say, sorry, I checking my notes.

We need first need to have a now that we've described what it is, we will have a public hearing.

I will open that to the public.

If anyone has any comments or discussion for this item before we vote.

Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and I will look to counsel for a motion.

I move that we approve proposed resolution R25-40 amending the Syracuse City budget for the fiscal year ending July 30th, 2026 to accommodate for the new uh electronic accounts payable system.

Second, uh motion made and seconded.

All in favor?

I any opposed motion passes unanimously.

Okay, we'll move on to item number 11.

This is a request from Councilman Craig.

Would like to question our police chief and fire chief in this meeting.

So I'll ask those two to come forward uh to where there's a microphone that you can share at one of these two tables.

Or you can each sit at your own table.

We know that they do.

So I will just uh let council know that this is not limited to councilman member Cragen.

If you also have questions, any council member can ask them.

But I will start with you, Councilman Craig, as you asked for this.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Uh let me just preface this by saying that uh over my couple years on the council almost that as we've done these budget discussions and uh I gotta get need.

Thank you.

Um had input from staff that that I feel that's been somewhat limited.

Uh it's my goal moving forward to receive more input from the staff uh department heads early on about some of the issues that are taking place in our city.

Uh I'm trying to do that tonight.

And as long as I have support of the council, I'll continue to do that.

So I do have a few questions.

I'll start with uh Chief Byington.

Um this should not take too long, but I'm just trying to get a sense of what's going on.

Uh, and then I'll uh move to the police department.

Um, speak a little louder.

I probably have to put it in my mouth.

I I move that we budget an extra $50 for microphones.

Um right.

Uh Chief Byington, uh we have two fire stations in the city.

Why are those two fire stations needed?

Well, the need for additional fire stations are based upon a few different things.

So response times, call volume, and target hazards.

Uh in Syracuse specifically, uh, over the past several years, we've experienced both an increasing call volume and increasing response times, especially to the southeastern portion of our city.

Are there national standards for fire departments?

Yes.

Uh there are national standards.

The Utah Bureau of VMS, so this is a state mandate minimum, uh, they mandate minimum staffing levels for ambulances and for paramedic response units.

And then the National Fire Protection Agency uh recommends as an industry standard minimum staffing levels for fire apparatus.

So they recommend a minimum of four firefighters on each piece of apparatus.

And they also recommend a minimum of 15 firefighters deploying to a low hazard initial alarm for fire suppression.

Is Syracuse currently meet those standards?

Uh the EMS standards, yes.

Uh it's a mandate from the state.

We currently meet the Bureau of EMS mandated staffing 100% of the time.

Uh on the on the others to answer for the NFPA uh for the fire standards at station 31, yes, about a third of the time we do meet that standard.

Um we do staff uh four people uh we budget for four people on that engine, uh, but that fourth person is used to give vacation and time off for the other firefighters.

So there are times we drop down to three.

Um, as far as station 32, we don't meet the standard there.

Uh we currently split staff engine 32 and ambulance 32, which I think is something that's been discussed in this in meetings before, and it's something that we've all had discussion on.

Is it fair to say that there are currently staffing challenges with the fire department?

Uh as I mentioned, we currently budget for 12 firefighters on shift per day between the two stations is where we budget.

One of those is a part-time firefighter spot, so 11 full-time.

We allow for one firefighter off per day, which drops our staffing to a minimum of 11 per shift.

If we drop below the minimum of 11, uh due to maybe a firefighter calling off sick or uh a family emergency, we do rely on our part-time firefighters or overtime to fill that vacancy.

Or as a last resort, uh, and we have had to, it's it's been pretty minimal, but as a last result, we take engine 32 out of service uh and and don't have anybody to respond on that at all.

Uh overall, though, Syracuse Fire has very little turnover uh with our full-time staff.

So we're not currently having having any challenges right now with recruitment or retention of our full-time staff.

Do those staffing challenges impact any calls that are made?

Uh like I mentioned before, there's times that we've dropped below those staffing, those minimal staffing levels.

Um, and we have had to uh reduce our staffing at station 32 to two firefighters, and because of that, we've taken engine 32 out of service and have only had the ambulance staffed at that one time.

Uh I do want to say though, it's it is a last resort.

We do that.

We try to get staff in to fill that spot.

Um and since the station 32 opened in late June, it's only happened maybe a handful of times that we've ever had to take that engine out of service.

So it is truly last resort, but those are some of the challenges we face.

Can you utilize equipment at both stations with your current staffing?

Uh yeah, so station uh station 31, yes.

We have staffing for an engine or the ladder truck, and then we also staff uh an ambulance and a battalion chief there.

Station 32, I would say uh no.

We uh, and this is well known that we still have nine positions that we're looking to fill there.

Uh so we do have staffing for a paramedic rescue truck there, which is a state mandate, and then we staff either an ambulance or an engine.

So whatever call comes in, we don't staff both there.

Have you had any challenges providing leave or day days off for your employees?

Uh I kind of discussed that we we do already allow the one person off per day.

So it has started to become a little bit of a challenge that the firefighters might have some difficulty taking time off.

And that's largely due because of the additional staffing we have had to staff that second ambulance.

Um with the additional staff that we were looking for and that we've we were continuing to be working on over the next little while.

Um, that will allow us to have up to two firefighters off per day and will help minimize those challenges.

All right, last question for now.

How many firefighters then you may have already answered this?

Do you need to adequately staff the fire department?

Uh right now, what we've asked for um and what we've been working on is the nine additional, and that would fully staff an engine at engine at station 32.

And that's where we're where we're at and what we've been working on over the past few years.

That's all I have right now.

Do you have any questions for uh Chief Davis?

I do, but I didn't know if anybody from the council had anything for Chief Wyington.

I I think I'm good for right now.

This is information we've gone over in many times.

I feel like, but I feel like asking it in this manner that gives it a questioning to put it so people can we can ask these questions directly to you.

And instead of it just coming up in a conversation where you throw the information out.

This is geared to directly identifying what it the needs are.

So I appreciate that we're doing it this way.

Thank you.

One thing I'd also like to add is for anybody out there that's listening or anybody in the public, they're more than welcome to contact the fire station and talk to me directly as well at any time.

Uh we're completely transparent.

You find does that include counsel that can approach you anytime and doesn't need to be inside of a meeting?

This is fair.

Yeah, I'm I can questions for him at any time.

Yeah, I can be contacted at any time.

Okay, so we've got let me ask this question.

You weren't uh the chief at the time, but when station 31 was built, is it not true that we have grown our staff over time in that station?

Uh yes.

So we didn't start out with as many firefighters as we operate out of that station now.

Uh no.

Okay.

Is that consistent with what we're doing at station 32 where we don't start with a full staff, but we can grow into a full staff?

Uh I guess it's consistent historically.

Okay.

Yes.

Well, we've put off these nine firefighters for how long now, hoping for a grant, though.

Like that's not, I don't think that's historical precedence.

That's that's like four years.

I I don't understand that comment.

If the station opened in June, how have we put off four years?

We applied for the grant and got denied.

But we don't okay.

How many applied been denied?

The the purpose of this tonight for me wasn't to engage in a debate.

It was to try and obtain information so we could take it to a work session and talk about what this city should or should not be doing with regard to the fire department.

That's what I'm trying to do tonight.

Okay, well, you put it on the agenda, and we're gonna just continue.

And everyone gets a chance to ask whatever questions they need.

So let me ask this question, Chief Byington.

Do you feel like Syracuse is safe regarding fire service?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Our firefighters are well uh well trained, they're certified, we have well-maintained equipment, and that directly correlates to our community.

Okay, I got a question.

Is there any issues facing them mental health-wise pertaining to what when they can and cannot take time off?

Uh, you know, that would be a question to ask them.

Uh that's pretty subjective.

Uh for me, I think that uh, you know, I uh from my perspective, I think we're doing we're doing great right now.

I think there are some challenges that could come down the road if uh based upon staffing and recruitment and retention policy and things we've discussed before.

If we don't kind of fix that or get that nailed, I think there could be some challenges in the future.

Uh, but as as it sits right now, I believe everybody's doing well from my perspective, but it is a subjective question.

You'd have to ask them.

Yep, thank you.

Regarding the number of calls that we've had over the past several years, and we did build this fire station with the uh idea that calls do increase.

Do you feel like there's been any time when we failed our citizens to respond to all calls with adequate uh response?

Um I don't know how to answer that.

There are times that we have not been able to handle calls in our own community, and we have had uh is that due to mutual aid?

Well, mutual aid would come in and cover for us.

It's not due to mutual aid, it's because we've exhausted our resources in the city and we don't have the resources available to respond to another call to a third or a fourth call that happened within the same time frame.

So, yes, we rely on mutual aid to come in and do that.

Whether or not that's uh us failing to provide the service, those are just I would those one off.

It's one of those one off or two off times that it happens that four or five people call 911 at the same time and we just don't have enough to get there.

So, and fortunately with mutual aid and the agreements we have with our surrounding cities, we help each other out when those times exist.

Do you feel like we're doing better than the surrounding cities in general?

I know it's not specific.

Any day can be different.

Uh it's it's really it's a challenge.

Every single city is doing the best they can with the resources they have.

And call volume is increasing.

I mean, we've had in the past uh five years, we've had a 58% increase in call volume this year for 2025.

Uh, at the end of the year, we're expected to break the 2000 mark for the first time in the in the history of this fire department.

So we're looking at right around it's estimated about 23 to 2400 calls that we've had um in the year.

So and that's a growth from in 2020, we were running 1200 calls a year.

So and when I first started here eight years ago, we were barely breaking the thousand call mark.

So um, yeah, there's been a lot of growth and a lot of a lot of that has we're just doing the best we can with what we have, and I think all the other cities are doing the same.

To be fair, with the mutual aid, though, we've provided mutual aid to other cities as well, have we not?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Just I just want to clarify that that it's it's an ongoing thing between the cities.

It's not lack and they come running if they if they have the same problem, we go running for them as well.

I do track mutual aid and I track the mutual aid given and the mutual aid received, and we track that over time because we can we can look at that and see that okay, yes, our fire department is being used outside of the city more than we're receiving help, and we can we can look at that.

So is it a fair statement to say that we're so we're currently sufficiently staffed and our mutual aid agreements help us are are continuing to allow us to provide the level of service we need to in those one-off situations?

So to answer this, we are staffed at the level that the city council has chosen to staff that station.

So uh my job as the fire chief is to look at risk, to look at the call volume, to look at response times and to bring to the council what we suggest to be able to mitigate that and to reduce that risk.

And which was why we brought another station into the city and where we located it.

And that also comes with staffing levels that that we want to maintain to maintain uh standards, industry standards.

And so are we adequately staffed?

We're adequately staffed to what the city council has chosen to staff that station at, yes.

Um, are we adequately staffed for industry standards?

We are not.

And it's it's offensive to me that you ask questions like, are you doing an adequate job?

And you expect a no.

I thought we weren't that's a silly question.

Yes, we're not those are silly questions.

Well, I'll remind you that we're only here because you requested this to I understand saying the question is a silly question.

Ask that the issue is whether or not they are adequately staffed and adequately meeting standards.

Okay, you can ask whatever questions you'd like, Brett.

And I'll moving on, can we move on?

Oh, you are not in charge, and he has the floor.

You guys are arguing that he has the floor.

You can let him that we weren't doing this.

You can let him finish.

It was started, you let him finish.

Anybody, any council member can ask a question they choose at this point.

I'm not gonna isolate it.

But we weren't asking them.

You guys were arguing amongst each other.

Okay.

Well, you're out of order at this point.

And always out of order.

Okay.

Oh, well, I was just gonna say, well, the the department just opened that the new fire station just opened, and it's only been open for you know less than six months.

And you did say that we are um meeting some of the state mandates in that fire department.

Was it emergency?

We're meeting 100% of the state mandates.

I don't want to break the law.

We are meeting 100% of the state mandates.

We are not meeting the national industry standards for the engine fire engine staffing.

Yes.

We are fulfilling those state mandates.

Absolutely.

You guys are doing a great job.

Thank you.

They are doing a great job.

But we could consider that you know there's multiple parts of service for each station.

And the driver of getting this is the fact that 67% of our calls or more are medical calls.

And so the EMS service and the paramedics are there, are actually covering the part where we were short.

We weren't short covering the fire calls at the time that we discussed in or building the station, but we build it for growth.

Am I accurate in describing this?

We're not we didn't start saying we're short on all services.

Um I wouldn't say we're short on any of our services.

We're just not staffed.

So it's it's hard to say what calls going to come in at what time.

Uh in the five in the uh five-year plan document that I sent out, we our call volume mix over the last five years is 63% EMS and 37% fire.

So yeah, it's just one of those things we just don't know.

I've said it before in council meetings.

It would be so much easier if we could just schedule emergencies.

Sure.

And just schedule them for a time frame.

We wouldn't have to staff the station in the middle of the night.

We could we could schedule them, but yeah, it's really hard to tell or dictate when that call's gonna come in.

Okay, so one last question.

Um for reference sake, you are a resident here, right?

I am, and you feel safe in this community.

I do.

Okay.

All right.

I guess we are we done with uh Chief Byington.

I am you should stay for comfort purposes.

Yeah, but I guess we'll move on to Chief Davis.

Um our new chief.

Chief Davis is a good metric for the number of police officers, one per thousand residents.

It's a good starting point for a metric.

Um, as far as for the community of Syracuse, um, that would probably be on the high end, but it's a good starting point.

There's multiple factors that go into that size of the city, call volume, population, geographical area of the city.

What what is that number for Syracuse?

Uh fully staffed to include the two frozen positions.

Um, we're at.78 officers per 1,000.

Are you in need of additional staffing at the police department?

Today, no.

In the future, I would anticipate we will be.

And what would the purpose of that additional staffing be?

Um, as the city grows, so too does call volume.

Uh traffic, commercial areas just require more visible presence.

Um, currently, I believe the police department does a great job in engaging the community.

Um, that requires time and effort.

And as your call volume grows and your people are have their time committed, then we would need additional bodies for that.

I envision um that we would need to improve our staffing of supervisors at the patrol level um for several reasons.

Um, and then as the city grows, we would explore um if we needed to add additional officers uh and or detectives to our ranks.

Um area in which we need to improve as well is to have supervision over our crossing guards.

Currently, that's how handled as a collateral duty by one of our sworn officers, and it's just not the best use of our time.

Okay.

Um do you have any concerns presently with recruitment and retention?

My concern being that we retain the people that we currently have.

Um our average years of service if you get below the median point when you look at it on a range, um, is about just shy of three years.

Um, so that would be 15 officers on average have about three years of experience.

When you add experience to the ranks, you increase efficiency.

Um, you increase professionalism and you just have that institutional knowledge and you also understand the community of Syracuse better, so you can really give back to your community.

So a veteran officer with experience is worth a lot.

So my interest are in retaining these employees.

Are you concerned with what the present pay range is?

Um, no, I know that the the council has a great um retention and recruitment policy in place.

Should we be able to meet that standard, then I don't have any concerns.

I do have concerns if we weren't able to do something in the very near future um as cities around us continue to change their wage scale.

And it's really it's really necessary and important that we do remain competitive with these other cities.

I don't have so much concern about recruitment, getting people through the door.

Um it's retaining these employees who can see a city that's shares a border with us that has a much higher wage scale.

And so it's really imperative that we at least be mindful of that and understand that if we don't remain competitive, it will have consequences with regards to us keeping our employees and it's difficult to replace employees, especially in the police officer position.

I I talked to this council um back in March, we started a hiring process.

Um I still don't have any of those bodies out on the street working.

The first one that's gonna come off is gonna be in December.

Um, and he only needed to go to the LEO portion, LEO portion of the academy.

So from December, he's got another 14 weeks before there's any chance that we put him out on his own.

So again, there's there's some soft costs associated with replacing the and hard cost associated with replacing employees.

So it's it's a great question, and that's one of my primary concerns is keeping the great people, the great men and women that we have at Syracuse Police Department.

Okay.

That's all I have.

Thanks.

I have a question of clarification for um the experience of our police officers.

I believe we spoke about this uh difference from the newest one that's about three years.

I wanna say the next one up is 12 years of experience.

Is that correct?

That between the two?

The jump in uh years of service between the that we have there.

Are we talking at the patrol level?

Yeah, the w well, I think it within the PD itself, any of the officers that are in the car, you know, car officers.

Um, I think three or three and a half years is one of them that we have at the most with the younger cops, and then there's a 12-year gap in service time to the next officer.

I think that's the difference.

And I I I wanna say that's what we figured out.

It might, but that's a lot, a lot, a lot of difference in training time, a lot of on-the-road time, a lot of experience time that we don't have very metal, very many middle of the road officers and getting them to lateral over is something that I think we really need to look at for the PD, what what's keeping us from getting officers to lateral from other departments?

What we've had how many officers have we had lateral in the last four years?

It's a great question.

I don't I don't have that answer for you.

I think three skank.

I I do know of at least one who lateraled here and has since left employment with us this year.

Right.

Sergeant Skank would have lateraled over.

That's correct.

We've had a very, very hard time getting those.

So I think if to I think that might be a pay situation also, what's keeping us from getting lateral officers?

And the reason I'm bringing this up is because that training in the middle there, once these older officers get to a point where they're gonna want to retire, all of a sudden we drop way down in years of service that we have within the PD.

And so keeping that institutional knowledge at a high number of years of service is kind of a big deal.

Kind of gives a good level playing field across the board for the PD.

So I think with the PD, that's something we really got to look at as how to get lateral officers to come over to fill that gap in those years of service.

That's just a big difference.

So uh I'm just gonna refer people to the public record because we do record all these meetings.

They're available on YouTube.

Um, I obviously we have the staff that's here now, but recently retired uh chief uh Atkin has answered this question in the past that said our real issue with getting laterals is we set such a high standard.

Um, and not all of them meet that.

There are lots of people who have applied that didn't meet the standard here that we set for our officers.

And uh frankly, I support him in that.

And uh you can get that as part of the public record if you'd like to look it up.

I think it's probably got more to do with that.

Chief, I have a question.

Yes, ma'am.

Is retention and attrition a city of Syracuse problem?

Or is it more of a broad problem across the nation?

It's a great question.

Um I I have control over a lot of things in the police department, um, the culture that we have, the opportunities that officers have within the police department.

Um, but I see oftentimes when it comes to employee retention, um, that somewhere somehow the employee fails is that the department's failed them.

Um in some cases, though, it is just pay.

And so when you when you look at it and you try and dissect the reasons, I think our HR department does a good job of asking those questions and the exit interviews.

And certainly um I can speak for Chief Atkin because I know him well and I know the man that he is, that he's done a great job of creating an environment here where officers didn't want to leave for reasons in which they feel like the department failed them.

Um it's life circumstances, it's better opportunity elsewhere.

And it may be just that they're looking for a city that has a higher call volume and more problems.

Um, we are blessed in the city of Syracuse to be a very safe city.

And so, you know, if officers are young in their career and they thought, ah, this isn't this isn't what I thought it was going to be.

I want to go work in a West Valley type environment.

Well, we're not going to offer them that.

And so it's it's a myriad of factors.

Um, but the ones that I can have control of, and then the council can have control of.

Um, I would I would ask that we explore those and make sure that we capitalize on those so that we do retain the men and women we have right now, because five years from now, they're going to be our veteran officers that are giving a high level of quality service that the people of Syracuse expect.

Uh, let me ask you this, uh Chief Davis.

Um, you recently uh started here.

You've been less than a year with our department.

Yes, sir.

Um it's uh obviously you came for an advancement opportunity, but were there other things that attracted you to Syracuse?

Certainly.

Um, you know, and an opportunity to gain new experiences to be able to lead a department that is in a growing community where there is a lot of opportunity for this city, and with opportunity in a city comes opportunity for a police department, as far as um just being able to be a part of that to um make an exceptional police department, not to say that it wasn't before, but to be part of that growth.

And I also recognize that with a growing city comes challenges.

Sure.

Uh let me just follow up with that.

We recently um, after you were not here too long, you spoke to me about uh a noticeable difference in culture.

Could you respond to the kind of share what you shared with me at that time?

It's it it's certainly a uh a smaller city in which um employees within the department know each other, they know their families, they know their kids by name.

Um, I would go out with Chief anywhere in the city, and it was either a handshake or a hug with everybody he ran into.

And so those, you know, those are the things that certainly are valuable to an organization.

And and the same thing across the street when I come over to this building.

Um, because there are less people, um, we get to know each other a little more and have a closer personal relationship, and that's certainly an advantage of Syracuse.

Does anybody else have any questions?

Okay, gentlemen, thank you for your time.

The last item on our agenda tonight is public comment.

Uh same rules apply.

Does anybody have a public comment they'd like to make tonight?

Please come forward, state your name and address.

My name is Doug Lund.

I live at 2023 Jackson Lane.

Uh, just make it short and sweet.

I'm glad that the council approved the hotel and the restaurants that are coming here.

I'm glad that it was a unanimous decision that's going to bring us money that's going to help solve some of these problems that we're already working on in the city.

So I'm excited for that.

The other thing is, while Chief Byington and Chief Davis are here, I want you to know that when I'm out and about at different events, like over at the hospital with the fire truck and interviewing the firemen and telling them, hey, what's this I hear?

We screwed up, we aren't hiring enough people, you don't have enough employees, you know, it takes 24-hour jobs.

You know, we don't have everybody on shift.

Every single one of those firefighters said, You can't believe our culture, you can't believe what Chief Findington's doing.

We have enough people, we love it, and we're happy.

I'm sorry, I'm gonna get a little personal here that my family has done a lot of those calls because young son shot himself in the foot, crazy, and you guys were right there to take care of me.

Father-in-law, we couldn't get him out of bed to take him over to the doctor.

They're right there to help and take care of us.

So, not all the calls are emergencies.

There's calls to take my father-in-law without a stroke to the doctor, and then oh, call us, we'll come back and help you get him back in and getting back home.

So that's great.

Chief Davis talked to a couple of your officers this morning.

There's an accident on 2000 and all this, and they were going over to Maverick after the thing.

And I knew I was coming to this meeting, so I wanted to talk to them.

And they said the environment that they're working in, they love.

They're excited.

The culture there is awesome.

They love Chief Davis.

One of the guys I talked to was recruited by Chief Atkins because he was a coach for 21 football.

And he just couldn't say anything nicer about the department and what's going on.

I have another son that works for Unified and went to school for unified and just barely got on, and he's showing me pictures of his new car and all this kind of stuff.

He's all excited about everything going on.

But I say, Unified, holy cow, I'm scared.

You're gonna be a magnet, you're gonna be here and all that.

That's why I'm doing it.

That's where I want to be.

So we gotta look for the people that don't want all these crazy calls sometimes and some of these kind of things.

But I just want you guys to know that I appreciate everything that you're doing.

I appreciate the council when we get a five to nothing vote.

That's what I want.

That's what I like to see in the council and see what's going on there.

So thanks for all the work and everything that everybody's doing.

Thank you for your comments.

Is there anyone else?

Hi.

Hi, my name is Jasmine Martinez.

This microphone works, by the way.

Um, my address is 2859 West, 2435 South.

And I just have um a statement for Chief Davis.

I don't know if you're aware, there has been a lot of concerns about lunchtime and after school um driving that goes reckless driving that's happening um around the high school.

Um, there has been a lot of people that um have stated on Facebook on social media that they have reached out to the police department and they're not feeling that they're being heard.

Um, a lot of residents live in with the uh around the area.

Um, so I don't know if that's something you know you can look into.

I know I've gone in and I've I talked to somebody, um, one of your guys' officers there about it, and they stated because I was like, maybe we can just send out maybe one extra police officer to patrol during those times, and they said, due to the um the understaffing that you guys have that that's not feasible, that that's something that we need to kind of work with the resource officer.

And from speaking with the school, um, the resource officer is one resource officer for around 3,000 students, so that's like a lot of weight that's like placed on that resource officer.

So I would love to have a conversation with you about certain issues that a lot of um concerned residents have reached out to me personally about.

So I don't know if we can make that happen.

That would be great.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else that has a public comment?

Okay, seeing none, I will close public comment.

Last thing on our agenda is to adjourn this evening.

Can I get a motion to adjourn?

Second, all in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

We are adjourned.