I'm going to start the uh Tiger City Council meeting, so I'm going to call the meeting to order.

Uh that you see the recorder.

Bartholomew, please call the role.

Counselor Shaw.

Here.

Council President Wolf.

Here.

Youth Counselor Halleck?

Here.

Councillor Gadisi.

Mayor Who?

Here.

Councillor Robbins.

Here.

Councillor Schlack.

Here.

Thank you.

Would you please stand and join me in the plagiarions?

Thank you, everyone.

City Council and Staff.

Do we have any any non-agenda items?

Yes.

Mayor who I have one?

All right.

Um so there's uh impending changes in federal SNAP benefits provided starting in November 2025.

That puts many tigered households at risk of food insecurity.

Uh so whether it be our disabled community members, furlough, or whatever life throws at us, one in six people here in Oregon have been using SNAP and it's at risk.

Uh so this gap leads to issues with access and nutritious food.

It's not only a health concern, but puts students and families at risk.

And although TTSD is doing a lot to address it at school, we need to do something to address it at home.

So I would propose putting together an action plan to help bolster our current food pantry so that we could better support our community.

Um I do have some ideas, but it would warrant discussion.

Okay, we can save that at the end.

All right, so I'm some of the mayor, Mayor Who, I'd like to ask that that agenda item be directed to the acting city manager under the ground rules that were approved in June of this year.

If there's time this evening, we'd be happy to uh hear your ideas.

If uh mayor and council would like it to be on another night, we'll find time in a future agenda.

Thank you.

All right, let's move on to uh public public common.

So uh as of noon yesterday's deadline for written common, we received 24 written comments.

Uh topics include houselessness slash camping, Ulta improved crossing at Omar and Hall, uh one thanking Tiger Police, uh nuisance co-enforcement, and River Towers 2.1.

So now let's move on to in-person public comment.

How many do I have?

Nine.

So uh each person will have uh when I call you name, please come forward, and each of you will have time uh two minutes, sorry, and there will be a timer on the screen.

So uh so the first person will be Caleb Peterson.

Welcome, Caleb.

Hi, um I'm a social worker here in Tiger, and I've had the opportunity to learn from and support a large majority of our from our unhoused neighbors.

I've walked alongside this community through its many changes, including the formation of time, place and manor policy.

I was also here in this room two years ago when dozens of our unhoused neighbors came before this council.

They spoke about the endless barriers they faced, including unaffordable rent costs and the exhaustion of constant sweeps.

Every few days they were told to move along and pack up everything they owned, leading them to relocate into the woods behind businesses or in other areas tucked away from public views, so they were less likely to be found.

Stuck for days before I had arrived.

These are not problems I see anymore.

But the cost of this progress is that we must now all see what has always existed.

These issues didn't appear because of the overnight camping site.

They simply became visible.

Getting rid of the legal overnight camping site will not make homelessness disappear.

It will only push people back into hiding and put them out of reach of services.

The city's time, place, and manner policy doesn't encourage camping.

It follows Oregon law and offers people a legal, safe, safer place to exist.

Will they work towards stability?

I believe Tiger can be both compassionate and safe.

Maintaining the current overnight campsite isn't the end goal, but it's a necessary bridge towards real solutions.

We solve homelessness by building bridges to services, not barriers to survival.

Thank you.

Thank you, Caleb.

Next one we have, I believe it's Denise Olsen.

Oh, it's close.

Okay.

Please say your name then for the record.

Thank you.

Dancy.

Oh, Dancy.

Okay.

Dancy, please.

Turn the microphone on.

Turn it on.

Hello, it's on.

Mike this guy?

See his leg?

Okay, I want to stop the fishing in Summer Lake Park.

This is one one thing I'm here for today.

There's no nothing in there anybody eats.

The lake is filthy dirty.

It's got bacteria in it.

And this is the first goose.

Last week I have a video.

I won't even take it out, but I do have a video of a duck.

I'm a goose who lost his foot, is dragging his foot around with either fishing line or the tendon in his foot.

We had already taken him in at one time and done surgery on his leg about two months before, but then the hot weather came in, all the geese disappeared, so we didn't know what happened to him.

And then when he came back to the park, we were going to catch him again.

And now I have notified the park, and I don't know what happened to him.

Um needs to stop.

Three ducks have lost their feet, and now two geese have been damaged, and it's going to continue.

They put in two platforms at taxpayers' expense.

They had stopped the fishing uh last year.

And at the first of this year, they put the fishing back in again and put in two platforms at two various points in the park.

Only can fish on those platforms.

But now the fishermen go everywhere.

And there's no a park ranger they have just hired, just hired, and he cannot uh patrol that park the entire time.

So we go over there and we call him, but he can't get there in time.

Um so this is what's going to continue to happen until the fishing gets stopped.

And I don't feel as a taxpayer.

I should have to pay for two more platforms for people to come and sunbathe on in the summertime when they're supposed to be fishing platforms, and they don't use them anyway.

Second one, second time thing I'm here for uh is the homelessness.

Um I don't know what the the thing is, but having to pay for grass at the at the park place over here.

That's a taxpayer expense, and that they shouldn't have put it there.

How about on some cement?

And uh another one is the blowers, the gas blowers that we have here.

92 decibels, that's pretty darn high.

Yeah, I'm on my deck and 92 decibels.

I've got the reading on my decibel reader.

And so uh they told me at the code enforcement.

Please wrap up wrap it up.

You have two minutes is up.

Pardon me?

Your two minutes is up.

Okay, I'm by.

You got the hint though, didn't you?

You can always send written comments to us as well.

So thank you.

Sorry about my voice.

They're talking too much today.

Uh, next one we have Carol Bergen.

Welcome, Carol.

Good evening, council members and neighbors.

I'm Carol Bergen, a resident of Tiger.

I'm here to express my gratitude to the Tiger Police Department, specifically Officer April Keller and detectives Casey Mace and Gabe Stone, who worked on my August 3rd assault case.

An 18-year-old Tigered resident assaulted me while I was walking on the Fannel Creek Trail.

I was left unconscious near the Tiger Library.

Four bicyclists found me and called 911.

I awoke at OHSU with a concussion, a broken nose, stitches in my mouth, and my left hand in a cast.

I have no memory of the assault.

Tiger Library videos show the attacker following me, and later, me lying on the path unconscious as he's dashing off.

Detectives Mace and Stone sent the videos to local TV stations.

A few hours later, the assailant's mother called the police.

After questioning, the assailant was taken to Washington County jail where he awaits a pretrial hearing in December.

Detectives Mace and Stone demonstrated care and concern beyond the call of duty.

They came to visit me at OHSU, expressed their distress about the assault, and explained their work on the case.

A few weeks later, they came to visit me at Avamir Rehab Center in Hillsborough.

These two personal visits made me feel I mattered.

Two weeks ago, I visited the Tiger Police Department to thank the detectives.

Detective Mace gave me a tour of the police department, and Detective Stone joined us to talk for a while.

They are such a positive reflection of the Tiger Police Department.

And the community needs to know how fortunate we are to have such committed, competent, and caring officers.

Thank you, Carol.

I'm glad you can be here today with us.

Next up is uh Yelise Laubark.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor Hoop, Council members, um, Tiger staff and our neighbors.

Um many of you know me.

I work for Family Promise of Twilight and Valley, but today it's also important to share that my family and I live just a few blocks from here on OMARA.

Um a few points I'd like to make in my brief time.

First, I want to express how proud I am of the city of Tiger for the leadership you've shown in addressing the homelessness crisis.

Uh you stepped up to bring more resources into our community.

You've been big supporters of ours at Family Promise, and you're ensuring that few of our neighbors live on the street.

So thank you for that.

Um, as someone who lives down the street from the public works building, I drive past it multiple times a day.

And I've seen tents come and go, and I've seen belongings of individuals come and go.

While I understand that seeing piles of possessions or people gathered on the lawn in the evening is not ideal, the site is meeting a critical need.

Most shelters are full, which means that people end up sleeping outdoors.

So having a designated and centralized location close to transportation and resources allows outreach teams to engage with them and support their housing journey.

Removing public works as a permissible camping site won't solve homelessness, and it likely won't remove it from Tiger.

Instead, it will just disperse it into neighborhoods, near businesses, along trails, and in parks.

This is less safe for everyone, our housed and unhoused neighbors alike, makes it harder to access services and significantly reduces the likelihood that folks will connect and gain housing.

So even if the current solution isn't perfect, I feel strongly that we owe it to those in crisis to have solid alternatives in place before making significant changes to the time, place and manner.

And we want to ensure the safety and resources we've been able to provide.

Thank you.

Thank you, Liz.

Next one we have is Liz uh Ericssman.

Welcome, Liz.

You have two minutes.

Good evening, Tigrid City Council.

For the record, my name is Liz Erisman, and I'm the street outreach coordinator at Home Plate Youth Services.

For the last 20 years, HomePlate has been the only comprehensive and countywide street outreach and drop-in service provider for young people experiencing homelessness, serving about a thousand youth in this past year.

I'm here today to discuss the proposed time place and manner ordinance changes in Tiger that would prohibit camping at the public works lawn.

I call on you as leaders of the Tiger community not to ban camping on the public works lawn, and instead to collaborate with local experts to leverage coordinated systems of support for everyone in our community, including those without a stable place to sleep.

In my first hand experience as an outreach provider serving all of Washington County, banning camping does not effectively address homelessness.

Instead, banning camping often creates additional barriers for our unsheltered neighbors and for outreach teams working to connect these individuals to resources.

Shuffling folks around to different areas without a clear path to stability creates longer times for folks experiencing homelessness and puts additional strain on our already overwhelmed systems.

In recent weeks, two youth engaged with Home Plates outreach team have been sleeping on the public work salon in Tiger while working toward their shelter and housing goals.

These youth shared with us that having a designated place to camp is supportive when waiting on shelter referral wait lists.

Often the youth we work with sleep outside alone and without any gear to protect them from the elements.

The public works lawn has alleviated some of their fear and vulnerability.

On behalf of HomePlate, I ask that your council continue to allow camping on public works lawn so that participants can stay engaged in services and in contact with their outreach workers.

Please help us to continue supporting homeless youth in this community that consider Tiger their hometown despite their own house circumstances.

Thank you.

Thank you, Liz.

Next we have Rob Robins.

Welcome, Rob.

Hi.

My name is Rob Evans.

Um I'm not prepared with the letter.

I'll do the best I can here.

Um I'm a business owner.

I'm uh dad, I'm a residence, and I'm proud to be here in Tiger.

We do have a problem right here at the public works department.

Um it's right there in the middle of town.

It's happening right where it says, welcome to Tiger.

Um, these people that are there, they have camping rules.

They're allowed to set up their camp, their tent, I believe, from seven at night until eight or nine o'clock in the morning.

If they don't get up in time, they will get a wake-up call by our Tigered police daily.

I witness it every day I go to my shop.

In between nine and eleven o'clock, if they're not off the grounds and have their stuff to the sidewalk with at least 36 inches of clearance for pedestrians to walk by, which they believe that that's legal to do.

The police will walk around from tent to tent to tent, looking at their clock and waking them up, making sure that they get off the ground.

First off, I couldn't imagine not having a home, living in a tent, let alone, knowing that I gotta get up at eight or nine o'clock and roll up my stuff in front of all these people that are gonna stop at lights and look at me and look down on me, honk at me, yell horrible things at me.

These people want to be safe.

This is not the place to be safe, for the fact is it is the biggest embarrassment I could ever imagine.

I'm embarrassed to tell anybody that I live in downtown or I'm from Tiger because of what is there, what I'm seeing every day.

When I pull out of my shop, I don't turn towards Burnham, I turn down towards Old Town because I don't want to get myself so mad.

I didn't come here to complain as a citizen, business owner.

Uh please wrap it up.

I want to make it please.

I want it to be known that I think it's the most important subject that this city has right now.

We need to do something for these people or find somewhere else for them to go.

They can't hang out at that place.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You can also submit written comments to us.

Thank you.

Thanks for coming.

All right, next we have is Michael Austin.

Michael, hey everybody.

Um, I'm here in my capacity today as the deputy director at Just Compassion.

Um, you know, I think I can't say anything better than these individuals behind me have talked about it as well, too, and even from our community members as well.

You know, um we collectively are trying to find a safer place for individuals to stay.

Um the unfortunate thing is there is nowhere at this current juncture for them.

Our shelters are full, housing resources are minimal, um, and finding places for them to stay that is actually sheltered is really difficult.

But I really want to talk about it from a safety standpoint because at the end of the day, I think you all know me well enough to know that safety is really important.

We call ourselves a community centered response, and that means the community around us is really important.

I actually do think that the time, place, and manner where it's at provides the safest place for all residents of Tiger.

It provides us at just compassion, the ability to provide resources around them, connect them to services as well too.

It also allows a place as you heard here for our PD to know exactly where these individuals are at and allows them to access things in that way, which I think is really valuable, and I think it really utilizes the resources uh in an effective manner.

Instead, if you didn't have that, individuals will be out into our communities, they'll be sleeping in front of our businesses, they'll be sleeping in front of other people's homes.

And I think that's where I think the safety measure can get more unique, and I think this resources can't be as effectively used and the experts in these individuals, like street outreach members who come and do these things, tougher for them to get to places.

You know, you heard about someone walking through uh, you know, up to their knees in water.

How unsafe is that for us and for these individuals to be doing that as well too.

When we can effectively do that on the lawn, I think that's really important, and so I just urge you all to think about that, because while I think there's a lot of good things going on, and I think that there's I mean, sorry, there's a lot of unique things going on to lawn that we need to address.

I still think it is the best place to address those.

And I think collectively, as a community, I think we can address those, including just compassion, including the city, and work together in that process.

So thank you.

Thank you, Michael.

Uh next one we have is Negan Hamilton.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening, counsel.

My name is Megan Hamilton.

I've been before council a few times before.

My husband, three children, and I moved from Southeast Portland three years ago and are very grateful to call Tiger our new home.

Livability and compassion are not mutually exclusive.

Our community can and must pursue both.

But inaction on camping storage and is eroding public trust and neighborhood safety.

I know that time, place, and manner is being discussed tonight, and I ask that the city acts to address growing storage and camping concerns before they worsen.

We expect accountability from our elected leaders, TPD, and our nonprofit partners to resolve these issues promptly and transparently.

Does Tiger have a good neighbor agreement for sanctioned camping at public works available that addresses personal belongings, loitering, pets, and open air drug use and sales.

Our community deserves thoughtful, enforceable solutions that balance compassion with accountability.

Congratulations on your new appointment.

Mayor Who, I humbly ask that you continue to make Tiger safe and livable for all residents.

Thank you, Megan.

Next one we have is Keem Marshall.

Hi, Kim.

Turn my good evening, Mayor and Council.

Thank you for having me.

Um I first just wanted to say, Carol, thank you for your story.

Um, it's it's a little bit of uh hope and uh show of resilience that I think we needed um in the space that we're in tonight.

Um I'm gonna switch it up.

I have some notes, and I could talk to you about being more humane, having an organized space, and that there's a balance of compassion and order and that consistency with Time Place Manor and having a safe place for people to camp is really important, um, particularly for those entry points that you just heard from Michael about.

Um, you're gonna be hearing from the wonderful Megan Cohen soon and with some proposals and um potential you know options for you guys to be thinking about.

And I'm gonna go off script here, and I think where I'm at today, and tears are probably gonna come because that's Kim Marshall, um, is our homeless friends are constantly making um trying to find answers to their questions.

Where am I gonna get food today?

Will I be able to brush my teeth?

Do I have a tooth toothbrush, toothpaste, water?

Um, am I gonna be able to eat?

And then there's the where do I sleep tonight safely?

And I look to you all with the agency to make a compassionate decision to answer that question for them.

You get to decide if they know that they have a safe place where they can sleep, where there's gonna be gonna say less harassment, maybe.

We have wonderful partners in this city.

I see Halstead from the library here and Chief McDonald, um, all the wonderful staff and uh you know to Michael and Elisa's point and home plate.

With you guys have done incredible work around this issue of homelessness.

And I just ask you to continue to do that work.

And if public works lawn isn't the right spot, then let's make sure to find the next right spot, and we can all come back and advocate why that's the important because you'll get feedback that it's the wrong spot.

But I really just need you to put that compassion ship in and recognize that um our friends need safe safety, safety first.

Thank you, Kim.

All right, let's go on to phone and video.

Mr.

Midler, you've you are there any callers in the phone queue or video request.

Mayor Who, we do have one call.

Uh please uh patch that person in the caller.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you.

You have two minutes, please.

Am I gonna start talking?

Yes, please.

You have two minutes.

Okay, great, thank you.

Um, I've been following Tiger's homeless response since former Mayor Schneider first proposed state plot.

Over the years, through each version of Time Place and Manor and HB 3115, I watched the city gradually shift more responsibility to the county and state in exchange for resources.

Many of us cautioned early on that making camping too permissive and expanding services without strong oversight would lead to long-term encampment, attract people from outside of Tiger, and make enforcement nearly impossible.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what has happened.

Our public work tends routinely remain up half the 9 a.m.

breakdown time.

Personal property is left on public property for days.

The area is no longer welcoming or well maintained, and it's disheartening to see our tax dollars meant to solve homelessness, appear to make livability worse.

What's most concerning is the ongoing cycle of finger pointing from city staff to elected officials to please suggest compassion to the county or state, each points elsewhere or to a lack of resources.

But leadership means taking ownership even when it doesn't really fall in your control.

I'm asking council to reassert that leadership and take concrete action.

Enforce the 9 a.m.

breakdown time consistently.

Limit how long personal property can remain on public lands, like Hillboro three hour rule.

Create clear enforcement protocols and strengthen county coordination so people aren't being directed here when we lack the capacity to support them.

Compassion and accountability are not mutually exclusive.

Tiger can model both, but that starts with enforcing the standards we already have and restoring confidence that our city is actively managing the issue.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right.

Caller, can we get your name?

Can we have the name of the caller?

Anna Murphy.

We do have another caller, and Anna Murphy was our previous caller.

And we do have another caller, Lindsay Voorhees.

All right.

Lindsay, you have two minutes.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Sorry, I have a lag here watching the stream and also trying to call in.

Can everyone hear me okay?

Yes.

So I'd like to read an email that was sent to Mayor Who and Council specifically asking for action to ensure that compassion as well as accountability for public spaces are in place.

We'd like you to consider looking at a time limit for stored property, much like Hillsborough.

They have a three-hour time limit if belongings are in a public space beyond that period of time, they can be moved.

Um another, you know, level of storage that wouldn't include public sidewalks and uh and the right of way issue being a concern.

I would like to also um endorse Megan's idea of having a good neighbor agreement in place and thinking about how we can work together with our houseless individuals as part of the community to think through what it looks like to be camping in a public space in a way that doesn't compromise safety or cleanliness for spaces that should be available to all of our community.

Um I'd like more transparency and the ability for community members to understand the actions that are being taken that are taking place.

Um right now it is difficult to understand what's being considered, um, which accountability measures will be in place and then how consistently they will be enforced.

Um, from our observations, the current rules as they are in place are not being consistently enforced due to a lack of um police personnel, um, a variety of issues.

But when those rules are not consistently enforced, it sends a message that we can't trust our elected leaders to come up with plans to address homelessness that don't sacrifice safety and livability for the rest of the community.

So it would urge council to really think through time, place, and manner, and specifically to address the storage of belongings, as well as making sure that the space is accessible and clean for all of the community members in Tiger.

Thank you, Lancy.

Uh Mr.

Miller.

Thank you.

Mr.

Miller, do we have anybody else?

That is it, Mayor.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Miller.

All right.

Next we move on to City Manager Report.

Acting City Manager Trish will provide a brief report.

Great, thank you very much.

Good evening, Mayor and Council, colleagues and community members.

I do have a slide if that's available.

One second.

I'll go ahead and start.

Uh, as election day approaches on November 4th, we want to encourage everyone to make plans to vote.

Participating in local elections is one of the most important ways to have a voice in our community's future.

Um we have the screen uh pop up here, you'll be able to see some of the highs and lows of voter turnout.

Um in uh 2004, for example, we had uh over 85% turnout.

Uh and and recently uh we've had some dips in voter turnout.

So let's aim high again for this year to make sure that our community continues a strong tradition of civic engagement.

Uh if you have a ballot at home uh that you can send in the mail, you can also come uh to City Hall or to any ballot drop-off.

And we'd love to see you drive past uh and express your preferences.

Uh we'll send out the slide uh separately.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Acton City Manager Trish.

Uh next one we'll move on to a consent agenda because consent agenda is used for routine items.

Information on each item is available on the city's website in the packet for this evening this meeting.

These items may be enacted in one motion without separate discussion.

Council members may request that an item be removed by motion for discussion and separate action.

Tonight we have two consent items: a resolution to amend the personal communication service facility PCS site agreement and a resolution to apply for a local government grant for the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department.

So I will open up for a motion or discussion.

Is there a motion?

Mayor who I move to approve the consent agenda as presented.

Thank you.

Mayor I second.

Thank you.

So there's a it's been moved and second.

Is there any further discussion?

Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

And those opposed say nay.

All right.

The motion carries.

All right.

Next one we have agenda is the annual meetings of the city of Durham, Tiger Water District, and the Water Advisory Board.

And Public Work Director Rager will introduce this item.

And go ahead, sir.

My name is Please turn on the mic.

Is that on?

Yes.

My name is Mahmoud.

You may call me Mo.

I am one of the displaced guests that are camping out on your lawn.

I'd like to give thanks to the City of Tiger for allowing me to stay here.

They've been uh most gracious, most compassionate.

The Tiger Police especially has shown tremendous compassion towards my situation.

I do not say that I am homeless for the fact that one must be at home within themselves.

So therefore I can never be homeless because I'm at home with myself.

I am displaced.

Merely for the fact that I do not have a residence of my own.

I have not been here too long, and I do not plan on being here much longer.

It is never my was never my goal to have all my belongings here.

Fortunately, that's where I'm at.

I find it interesting that it is even a question that we are debating whether or not we have a place to stay or not.

That right there just it strikes concern to me.

To put up a debate whether or not we should have an encampment, whether or not we should have a safe place for people that are displaced, as myself.

It shows concern among the community.

What I've been hearing it is that it's merely uh an appearance issue.

One said, Oh, they're camping out right in front of the welcome to Tiger, the downtown Tiger.

Everything seems to be an appearance issue.

But no one is discussing, no one is actually coming up with solutions.

Now I was at just compassion.

Which I call just compassion list.

Sir, I I gave you two minutes for public comments, so your time is up.

But if you would like to sign up, and you can welcome to submit public comment or come back next week.

I'll end it by saying.

As much as we want to police us displaced, we need to uh better educate, better inform the ones that are policing us.

And at the same time, we need to better educate and better police the shelter that has been open for us.

For they are not up to par.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And please uh can you get his name?

All right.

Apologize for the interruption.

Um so again, please um public work director Regers.

Um please uh come forward and please uh bring your guests and introduce our guests.

While you uh seated, I just want to remind everybody we'll have 20 minutes for this uh agenda item.

So the first two minutes, I'm just having uh uh quick introduction, and then for the next five minutes, we'll talk about those three recommendations, and then we'll follow by five minutes of staff response to the recommendations, and then the remaining time we can have uh open up for the council question.

So please uh make an introduction, Brian.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor and Council.

I'm Brian Rager, the public works director.

I'm serving currently as the liaison to the water advisory board.

Uh I'm gonna be very brief and and and turn it over here uh to our chair here in a second.

Uh the purpose of tonight is uh there's an annual meeting called for our intergovernmental agreement between Tigered, City of Durham, and the Tigerd Water District.

Uh tonight uh or that annual meeting has two parts to it.

Uh the first part is where Durham Tiger Tiggard Water District could discuss uh items that are in the IGA that you know maybe they want to change.

Uh not received any input from Durham or Tiger Water District regarding that, so I assume uh that that we won't be talking about those tonight.

Uh part two is for the water advisory board to discuss their activities, and uh they do have some recommendations for the council to consider.

Uh so at this point I'd like to turn things over to the water advisory board chair, Michael Bruin.

Then on now.

Yeah, thank you.

Excuse me.

I thought we were going to do the tower lease first, the communications tower.

They did that by January.

Oh, good.

So I don't.

Um speaking to the Hello.

All right, I'll speak into it.

I should know better.

I know my recording street.

Um I'm pleased to be here tonight, and I think we all are, and I congratulate the mayor and uh on all of you are the newer uh counselors here.

And you know, water utility, some people they take it for granted.

You know, I I grew up uh in the country in Ohio, and there's a saying you don't miss your well till your water runs dry, and that happened, and I can tell you it's it's not a great thing, but we take it for granted you can't go more than three or to five days without water for survival.

So the most important thing that any municipality can deliver, it's it's nothing other than the water is the number one most important thing.

Plus law and order.

So I just wanted to preface uh before we introduce these three uh items for recommendation.

I wanted to start with water conservation, and I'm gonna read these, but I have some comments after each uh paragraph briefly to give some information.

Several scientific studies have determined that climate change is already affecting the Clackamas River source, watershed, snow plac, snowpack depletion, air and water temperature, seasonal water discharge rates, and water quality.

Temperature factors are increasingly affecting customers' water usage in summers and early autumn.

So let's look at the water discharge rate seasonal at the height in say February, February 24th.

You might have like eight thousand cubic feet per second as the flow.

But then it can get so slow after drought that by late September, early October, it may be down to around 700 from 8,000 to 700.

That's a huge amount.

So what happens when the water gets that slow, it affects a lot of things in the whole system.

The snow pack depletion.

We used to rely on more than 50 percent of portable water from snowpack.

Now it's down to 40 percent.

It's predicted by 2070, we'll be down to only 10 percent, and we'll be 90 percent reliant on precipitation.

The snow pack depletion used to be mid-May.

It is now the third week in April, and this is a pattern, and it's recurring.

I've been tracking it.

We look at the air temperatures are going up over the last 50 years in the metro area during most times of the year we are averaging 2.5 increased degrees Fahrenheit.

Also, if you look at last summer, not this summer, but in 2024 in July, the 24-hour daily average average temperature for every day of July was 88 degrees Fahrenheit, the hottest that's ever been recorded for any month here.

So I'll continue on here.

There is a limited water supply and storage capacity, and the water service area population is increasingly increasing significantly due to planned development.

There was also a need to conserve potable water and to encourage measures which promote recycling, outdoor water, planning vegetation that is native and drought resistant, and limiting the size of some future water features.

Now, uh I'd like us to delete, we had discussed this as a board since our meeting and at rate it during the meeting, but where it says including swimming pools, because we didn't want to get that specific.

So I just wanted to say that to the city recorder.

But as far as water features, we didn't want to get into the nitty-gritty.

Um, as far as limited water supply, we have 25 million gallons per day allotted to Tiger of the 38 million.

Uh Lake Oswego has 13 million.

Our storage capacity for like our last report uh September was uh ranged from about 360 million to 380 million gallons in 14 reservoirs, and the average use in September was 8.2 million gallons per day at peak times over 10 million.

So the WAB therefore recommends that the city continue to incorporate and promote water conservation in all city endeavors.

Should I continue with the next one or do you have any comments?

Um you have about two minutes for the next two points.

So I have what?

You have two minutes for additional water source and the water concern for new development.

So let me just read this one then.

The Tiger Water Service Area has limited capacity of potable Clackmas River water in a partnership with Lake Oswego.

The population of the water service area is increasing is and is expected to substantially increase in the next five to fourteen.

That is to 88,000 plus residents, and particularly due to development at River Terrace 2.0, Kingston Terrace, and west of Southwest Roy Rogers Road, and south of Southwest Scholes Ferry Road as mandated by Metro.

Reports commissioned by Tiger and Lake Oswego indicate that by 2039 at peak times, LOT partnership will use 33.3 million gallons daily of the total 38 million gallons total capacity.

Temperature factors may gradually mitigate some of the actual water capacity.

The WAB therefore recommends that the city continue investigations into supplemental water supply, including a possible inter tie with the Willamette River Water Supply Program.

The third item is water concerns for new development.

Instead of reading this whole thing, I just like to make the main points, time being of yes.

The first paragraph talks about expanded urban growth boundary and potentially increasing Tiger's population by at least 9,000.

What it doesn't mention, though, is that King City is going to double its population too, and we serve them as well.

The second paragraph talks about increasing housing density through multiple infill projects.

The cumulative increase in density will impact the water supply and the sewer system.

The third paragraph talks about our partnership with Lake Oswego and that we have a limited amount of water, and we're not going to have any more increase coming out of that river.

And that current models show that we're going to be approaching capacity as mentioned in this other recommendation.

The WAB understands that Tigrid must work within Metro's density requirements when establishing developmental goals.

Rob urges Tigert City Council to continue to consider how infrastructure and utility delivery will support housing production and system sustainability simultaneously.

WAB advocates for Tigert City Council to explore options to mitigate water usage and carefully plan for additional water supply options, including accessing the Willamette River through regional partnerships.

Thank you, Michael, for the three recommendations.

Thank you for the board for working on this.

Now I'm going to invite Brian for a staff response.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

The board in developing their recommendations there were questions of staff, and we we talked with the board uh throughout.

And uh as far as you know, water conservation, that is something that we continue to uh work on.

It might it looks a little different than it did years ago.

Uh right now, what we're doing is we're focusing on uh the system as as a whole, and we're working on leak detection.

Uh that we think that there is more bang for the buck in looking at uh trying to reduce that.

We have got a pretty tight system, but uh we are looking at the newer technologies for how to look for leaks in the system.

As as far as future water source would have explained to the board is that uh there's a kind of an order of things, and it usually starts with a water uh system plan update, and that is scheduled for this next fiscal year.

Uh we will do that as part of that work.

We'll look at uh the demand forecast.

We'll revise, you know, that will get revised uh based on what's actually happening out there now.

And uh yeah, it it that will include just kind of forecasting timing of when we need to start looking at that next source.

Okay, thank you.

Now I'm going to open up to Councilmember for questions or common Council Schlack, you want to start?

I just wanted to thank the Water Advisory Board for the well-researched and prudent recommendations about how we can manage our water supply going forward.

And uh I welcome the recommendations, and it sounds like our public works director um concurs with them largely.

And so um I I look forward to having further discussions on these recommendations and how they proceed at future annual meetings.

Thank you, Councillor Schwack.

Counselor Shaw.

Thank you, Mayor.

I also too thank um the WAB for its recommendations as I am also serving on the WIF, so I am sure that uh there will be some opportunity for discussion for partnerships in the near future.

So thank you very much.

Council Robbins.

Well, you guys know me because I'm at every meeting or part of this.

We worked hard on these recommendations.

The last meeting we actually went line by line through and edited it, and it was very collaborative, so I really appreciate that.

I've learned a lot.

Um I look forward to continuing to work with you, and we we feel strongly about these recommendations, and we're gonna continue doing more good work.

Yeah, this is really important.

And we have some time.

Any members want to say something?

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Uh my name is Bill Tishi.

I'm a member of the WAB as well as Tigert Water District.

Uh as our leader Mike Bruin here has indicated, water is very important.

We all know that.

Uh, our concern and at the Tigert Water District is looking at the system in an emergency and the supply and emergency.

And our focus going forward and our new uh mission statement has been centered around that.

So we will continue to supply information to the City Council in that regard and ways that we think would be uh relatively inexpensive and effective in supplying water in emergency.

And that emergency, just to put a final dot on it, is uh a major earthquake.

And everybody here, if you're not aware that that's in the cards, uh take a look.

The State knows it, the up and down the West Coast knows it, so we should be looking at ways we could supply our constituents water in that emergency because it will be uh you can't survive past five days without water.

Uh three days for a lot of us.

That's all I have.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Council President Wolf.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, and um, to my fellow council members on the presentation and and your passion and your willingness to serve in this area.

The only thing I'd like to add is um just to give some clarity.

Uh what I heard is some great recommendations that make sense, but I also heard Brian give some clarity about outcome and timelines.

So I guess what I'm asking, and and maybe this is repetitive that as a city of Tigered response that we kind of capture that we support these goals, and here's our action steps attached to that.

I just don't want to see it get lost that yes, we support and agree, and I thought that Brian had some real clear action steps around how we would respond to that.

And then maybe in the first one around leak detection is the number one priority, but we continue through utility billing or something to promote you know conservation practices with water, but that's my only request.

And if I if that's already an assumption that's being done, my apologies, but I just wanted that clarity.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh the uh I'll I'll clarify in that uh in addition to leak detection, we are uh continuing to explore uh options for education for our uh uh water customers, and that's across the system.

Uh when I said it looks a little different, you know, we're not handing out the low-flow toilet kits that we did years and years ago because most of the toilets you buy now are low flow.

So we're there there are other ways of um getting the word out about how to conserve water.

We're also looking to the partnerships we have regionally.

We belong to the Clarkness River water providers.

We're a member there.

We're exploring uh that they do education that can be used that all members can use.

The same with the regional water providers consortium.

We are a part of that.

So there's a variety of ways that we can help provide education.

Yes, don't my thunder, Brian.

That was my water board.

I agree, the regional water consortium is a great opportunity for educational tools.

Michael, go ahead.

I I wanted to add something to what uh Commissioner Tichy said.

And regarding emergency management, because we're going to be looking at uh not only earthquake management, but if there was domestic terrorism or a war, if there was a system-wide failure, if there was a long-term drought, if there was an ur big urban fire like what LA had or something, and how and to coordinate that also with TV uh fire and rescue.

And so the WAB is in the process of organizing an extensive in-depth review of emergency management concerns dealing with water, preparedness, and investigating future water emergency planning options and initiatives.

This water emergency review planning process will commence at the WAB December 10th meeting and continue into 2026.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um thank you all for the important work you do for our region's water supply.

And uh we look forward to regular updates from you.

So Robbins, two minutes.

Thank you.

This won't take two minutes.

We do have an opening on the water advisory board for an at-large member who does not live in the city of Tigerd.

So if you know anyone in unincorporated parts of Tiger who wants to join us, we meet every other month on a when Wednesday, right?

And um you can learn about our whole water system and disaster preparedness, and we want you to apply.

Thank you, Council Robin.

Yeah, please apply.

Oh, Councillor Schlack.

Being mindful of the time, one item I would like to um put on the radar for future agendas is a discussion around Section 12 of the IGA, which is regarding the 5% rebate to partner jurisdictions.

I want to make sure that rate pair money is being used efficiently and being invested in our collective water system appropriately.

And uh, I would like to see if that percentage could be reduced so that way it can be um directed by the city of Tiger at a future point.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Schlack.

Thank you all.

All right, next item our agenda is the time, place and manner update and discussion.

And we'll have our city county house house Lesliez on Cohen to introduce item.

And as Megan gets seated, I just want to remind everyone that we set aside about 30 minutes for this discussion on possible update to our time place and manner ordinance for public camping.

The goal tonight isn't to solve homelessness in one meeting.

It's to stay focused on whether the ordinance we have still makes sense and what adjustments or data we might need to make it more effective.

I also want to acknowledge that I also want to acknowledge the larger context.

While facing a tougher environment, cuts to SNAP benefits, rising health care insurance premium that for some families have more than doubled, and continue uncertainty in state and federal funding for housing and behavioral health programs.

Those pressures ripple down to the federal levels and make our work even harder.

So as we talk tonight, let's keep that in mind.

Even if we adjust our ordinances or move camping away from certain areas, the reality is that homelessness will likely increase in the short term, not just in Tiger, but across our region because the safety net is shrinking.

That's why accountability and transparency are so important.

Being clear with our community about what we can do, what we cannot do, and how we will measure progress.

So Megan will start with us uh was a short presentation.

I asked her to keep it under five minutes, and then for about 15 to 20 minutes, I will ask council to focus on two key questions.

First, does the ordinance as currently written need to be updated?

Second, what near term changes or data do we need before moving forward with with any recommended ver uh revisions?

And will we use the remaining time to provide staff with directions on next steps?

My goal is for us to leave tonight's discussion with clear, realistic guidance that reflect both our compassion and our capacity.

So welcome, Megan.

Good evening, Mayor Who and City Council.

My name is Megan Cohen.

I am the City County Homelessness Liaison.

I am here this evening to discuss possible changes to the city's time, place and manner ordinance and seek your direction on options moving forward.

Uh next slide, please.

As a reminder, I provided an update on homelessness to the city council on August 26, 2025.

During that meeting, you provided direction to explore time, place and manner changes.

You wanted to maintain current homeless service levels in Tigered, and at that time you did not want to prohibit camping on the public works lawn.

Depending on the direction received tonight, I am tentatively planning to bring a revised time place manner ordinance to City Council in December or January.

That meeting would be a public hearing with dedicated public comment on the topic.

Next slide just to give a brief report on the current situation in Tiger, as you know, and Mayor Who uh preempted a couple of my talking points here.

Um, that uh this is a very complex issue without easy solutions.

We have seen lots of other cities try lots of different approaches with their ordinances, and they're all still still dealing with public camping and with house houselessness within their city boundaries.

Tiger does not unique or alone in dealing with this issue.

None of the options presented tonight are going to solve homelessness in Tiger.

One thing that we should focus on is how we can come together as a community to support each other.

We cannot thrive with others in our community, particularly those that are most vulnerable, also thriving.

We have been hearing ongoing community concerns about the public work salon and visible houselessness, including belongings.

I want to note that we're having very high compliance with our current time place manner rules, which are being enforced by police on a daily basis, and that even folks that have belongings on the sidewalk are complying with all current Tiger ordinances.

While we might not like how something looks, it does not mean that something illegal is happening or that we're not enforcing current rules.

The issues of belongings and storage are an issue beyond time place manner that we will likely not be able to resolve this evening.

Um we will be working with partners to find innovative ways to address this and to find more options for folks that are struggling with that issue here in Tiger.

Lastly, as Mayor Who mentioned, we have ongoing resource constraints, including a lack of eviction prevention and available shelter beds.

With the ongoing federal shutdown, we anticipate that families and individuals will not have food benefits going into November.

We know when people in poverty lose an essential resource, it puts them not much closer to becoming homeless.

The past weekend we also had an atmospheric river that made outside conditions extremely difficult with lots of wind and rain.

I wish that I was able to come here with better news or more options on the horizon, but unfortunately, we are in the same, if not worse place than we were two months ago.

Right now, what we have in front of us are a couple options around how we could look at changes to our time place manner ordinance and working together as a community to continue addressing this and finding any solution we can to help the most vulnerable members of our community.

Next slide.

The first option is to prohibit camping on the public works lawn.

This would leave camping on public right-of-way as the only option for camping.

It may make homelessness less visible to our community, but we're also likely to just see it disperse the issue with folks in our downtown core gathered round the Just Compassion property in our neighborhoods and back in our parks and natural areas.

It could lead to increased encampment cleanup in parks and natural areas.

We have budgeted enough to encounter to account for increased encampment cleanup for the foreseeable future, but it may require a budget asked down the line depending on the level of ongoing uh enforcement and cleanup.

It would also decentralize police enforcement, resulting in longer response times to individual camps that would be found around Tigered.

We're in a better place right now in terms of boots on the ground with a forthcoming community service officer hire, our two dedicated bike officers and a park ranger that's been doing some incredible work.

Educating folks about the change in rule and reinstituting compliance with those rules will also take time.

Lastly, outreach will face more challenges in connecting with folks and notifying them of active housing and shelter referrals.

This could lead to people losing their active referrals and having to restart the process of getting connected to our system to shelter and to housing.

The public works lawn provides a safe, visible place for camping.

Without it, people could camp in more unsafe conditions, as especially as we deal with forthcoming winter weather.

Next slide.

The second option is sort of in two parts, and that's making some changes to the existing ordinance and to both time and manner.

The first piece around this is one option floated in August was to move the time back to 7 a.m.

Um Tigered Police shift changes happen at 7 a.m.

And it's not realistic for them to enforce the ordinance until 8 a.m.

at the earliest.

The preference would be to keep the time the same since there's already compliance with the existing time.

However, uh there is consensus that enforcement at a 8 a.m.

would be possible.

The Just Compassion Resource Center is also open from 7 a.m.

So there is overlap for that time for uh folks to have an open option during the day to access services.

Um next slide.

The second piece of this um applies if we keep public works lawn as an existing option.

Uh there's a couple additional changes you could consider that would help clarify enforcement on the lawn.

The first is removing language about prohibited camping near safe parking city hall.

Uh so there's sort of a a line, a mysterious line on the public works lawn because of how close we are to safe parking.

That by removing that piece, we would be able to just be more clear about where camping is or is not allowed on that lawn.

We're exploring options for fencing on the lawn that would clearly demarcate uh where people could be on that lawn.

Um, another option would be to add additional prohibited city properties.

So there are several city properties that we have that that just haven't been added to our uh time place manner orin's thus far, because we've um we have uh acquired them since uh making changes.

So that would be another option.

And then we also currently have language in there about how close tents can be together.

This has been something that's very difficult to enforce unless we were to either um mark out spots or sort of measure exactly what those spots are and could put us in the position of actively managing in camp site, which would require more staff, would require more enforcement, um, and just make that a little bit more of a staff-intensive uh experience.

Um, additional changes outside of that we could explore are rules about the amount of clearance on the public right-of-way and/or a limit to how many items people can have, but a reminder that this would be generally applicable and enforceable for our entire community, not just unhoused folks.

Uh, with that, I would like to open up for questions, discussion, and feedback.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Megan.

Um, I think I will go first with uh Council Perse and Wolf to see if she wants to change anything or what her thought is.

Please go ahead.

Um Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I appreciate that.

And um so, yes, the fast answer on the first one is um I do think things need to be reviewed.

And I think the second question, what data is required and in the time that we have this evening, and I so appreciate Mayor Who, you kind of setting the stage for expectations of what will be accomplished this evening.

And this is a difficult in-depth conversation.

And so I guess my first question and wondering is in the past, we have leverage chart as a sounding board, a thinking process to really dig into these issues and bring guidance and recommendation to council because they have had that ability to dig deeper.

And I I guess that's my first request is as we talk about what are our storage options, um, water alternative sites, how do we explore uh businesses for future site locations that make sense in conjunction with just compassion?

Um, and then um, you know, new properties.

I'll be clear about that.

I oppose that.

Um, I don't think that's a place that I would want to move.

And I also want to talk about three hours.

I know we talked about that.

And at the time, my understanding of the law is you can have stuff here and move it 25 feet over, and you have in theory moved it.

So these are the just all the questions that really sit in my head, and I really would like to see chart kind of look at these and appropriately balanced with a variety of voices that address all of these concerns and then bring back a really thoughtful uh robust conversation with some guidance.

And with that, I'll I'll pause.

Thank you, Mayor Who.

Thank you, Council Parson Wolf.

And I will start with no okay, Councilman Shaw.

Thank you very much.

Um I have been on council long enough since it was COVID, and uh recognize um Caleb who mentioned earlier there was encampments in areas that were considered sensitive.

They were actually out of sight, they're behind the library near Benita Park where nobody could see them.

So there was not an appearance.

But we've had houselessness and homelessness for quite some time in our community.

Um I would hate for us to go back to those days because I too remember when there was an atmospheric river and there were several individuals who were basically flooded and their possessions were lost.

They didn't have lots of possessions, but the few they had were lost.

So like Council President Wolf, this is a very difficult discussion.

Um I appreciate the fact that we've received extra data from Washington County that shows that the city of Tiger is doing substantially more than most other of our um communities in our county.

So I'm proud of what we've done.

But I also do think that we need to recognize that there is a community livability issue.

And because of that, and uh a couple of us tomorrow will be fortunate to visit just compassion tomorrow.

But I also do remember prior to the new building being built, they did have storage capacity for individuals who had um possessions.

And so I'm hopeful with the visit tomorrow, we can revisit that discussion because that was my recollection was that with city funding and TCDA funding that there was going to be storage capabilities for the homeless who had items that they needed to store.

So I'm hopeful we can have that discussion.

And uh with regards to new properties, absolutely pose that from the city perspective.

Um and let's see, what am I missing there?

Uh any changes?

Oh, I do support the uh 7 p.m.

to 8 a.m.

I think it does align.

Um, and then also um fencing.

I would like to get more information on that.

If it it's and I know it's a compassion issue and an appearance issue, but if it's um something that helps both the humility for those who are homeless and having um knowing right that they have to camp, and then those who work nearby recognizing the gentleman who has a business very close and nearby.

So I'd like to explore further the option of fencing if that is doable from both the city perspective, the business perspective, and the community perspective.

Thank you.

Counselor Gulusi.

Thank you, Mayor Who.

Um, there is no good solution as everyone sort of already brought forward.

Um I did have an opportunity to do a ride along with Officer Orth before I came on to council, and one of the things that I did note was we did go deep into the parks looking for encampments.

Uh completely disbanding this and removing the camping would just make that significantly worse.

That would significantly increase resources and make things just worse and unpredictable overall.

Uh so removing camping completely is not the solution.

It is going to make things worse, it's going to make things more expensive.

And I hear from the community that another one of their main concerns does end up being the personal property that ends up being left there throughout the day.

So even though we do have the time place ordinance for the camping, it's that all of this is sort of sitting there.

We do have different references in terms of what other cities are doing.

And initially I thought, well, why don't we find a way to store it?

And if we have some sort of a community or city storage, that would be a reasonable option.

But it sounds like that is not necessarily feasible.

Uh estimates, it sounds like are about 100,000 a year plus about two FTE, which makes it cost prohibitive.

Um so although no, I do not have the answers.

I do see the wisdom of keeping a time place ordinance that said I do support changing the time to the 7 p.m.

to 8 a.m.

So that's the only change you support so far.

All right.

Conserver Schlack?

Thank you, Mayor Who, and I appreciate my um colleagues' perspectives on this.

Um I've been on the council since July of 2024, so still one of the newer members, and I've learned a lot about homelessness during that time.

And honestly, I'm at a point where I'm increasingly concerned about our local and regional response.

Uh I was commenting to one of my colleagues that uh I keep being told that we're having a regional response, and yet I don't feel like I'm on the calendar invite.

I'm not getting the memo on what the actual plan is.

I keep getting told about how Tiger is a leader in this space.

But uh we have other municipalities that are lagging behind in per capita beds that we're providing to homeless shelters, and it's really just starting to annoy the heck out of me.

I keep getting told that uh the situation is not going to get better.

I recognize that the city of Tiger does not have endless funds, but as elected officials in our particular jurisdiction, I want to see us doing more than talk.

I want to see us act.

Um, you know, with regards to prohibiting camping on the public work salon, I hear both sides, but uh I don't I would be very hesitant about that turning into a quasi-permanent solution at this point.

I don't think that's appropriate.

Um and if uh I had to have a vote on a time place manner ordinance amendment today, I would vote to prohibit it at this time, and as well as limit camping hours to between 7 a.m.

p.m.

and 8 a.m.

I'd want to look at the matrix that was put here, go line by line and align ourselves, our standards with what the rest of the county is doing in other jurisdictions.

If we're being told this is a regional response, we should align with what the rest of our region is doing.

Uh that's just my my perspective at this point.

I uh I wish I could have a different perspective on it, but um that's where I'm at.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Counselor Robin Thank you for letting me have a little time.

Um we had a lot of comments, a lot of written comments that were very heartfelt, and I have to say, reading through most of them, I did not disagree with what I read.

Um it's not just an appearance issue.

It's of course, yes, part of it is the appearance.

I don't want to see the stuff on the side of the road, I don't want to see this, I don't want to see that.

But it's also a safety issue.

People don't feel safe walking by a huge mountain of belongings that's on the sidewalk.

Yes, you have your 36 inches ADA compliance.

But if I had a toddler, which I don't anymore, but if I did, I would not want to walk by that.

If there was a tent, which I haven't seen any today, I I wouldn't want to walk by that.

It was like that in downtown Portland, and frankly, it carried a taser at the time because I didn't feel safe.

Um I do not advocate banning camping on public works.

If we have to have a spot, that's where we should have it.

I do not agree with making it larger.

I do not agree with putting up fences.

I am frankly a little disappointed with the recommendation for the time because we were told two months ago to mirror the times of all of our surrounding municipalities, which seems to be at the most generous, well, except for unincorporated Washington County that just lets you stay willy-nilly for five days.

Most of it is 7 p.m.

to 7 a.m.

Sherwood and Cornelius in King City and North Plains all don't let you set up till 9 p.m., which I thought about that, but I can't imagine in the winter having to wait till 9 p.m.

to set up my tent.

That's that's terrible.

And so I don't want that.

But I also don't want it to be more comfortable here than anywhere else.

And I realize that sounds discompassionate, but it's not.

It's trying to find a balance.

And if anyone is going to go to the place that is the most welcoming and the easiest.

Right.

And so if we allow camping until 9 a.m., I would choose that, right?

And so we've been told no, we shouldn't really do the 7 a.m., even though two months ago we were told you should mirror that, but the police can't do that.

I understand that.

And we want to work with our partners.

So if 8 a.m.

is what it is, then 8 a.m.

Um I have a lot of notes here.

Um I do have questions because Megan, you said, and I I am glad to hear that we have very high compliance.

But the fact that we have now four designated FTEs trying to police this tells me that it's not total compliance, because if it were, we wouldn't need that, right?

We have a budget for cleanup.

The rules say don't leave your do may not accumulate, discard or leave behind refuse, feces, et cetera.

So if we, you know, we're paying a lot of money to clean up these places.

When scouts go camping, we say leave no trace.

If it was truly like that, which I realize it's a different population, but pick up your trash when you leave, I think is a reasonable request.

If we're hosting you here, it's reasonable to say pick up your stuff and pack it up.

I can't imagine being homeless and having to worry about my stuff.

But I also sympathize and empathize with all the people who say this is a mess.

When I drive by, I think this is a mess.

But if we do pay for storage, are we then inviting more people to come?

Will more people come here?

These are all very complex issues, and I'm just voicing, I can feel I'm like a little edgy because I'm frustrated, you know.

And we have this great matrix of what the other people are doing.

Besides our place, right now, there are no access centers to go to counselor Schlack's point.

Hillsborough has a site identified, anticipated in 2026.

Cornelius has a site identified operations anticipated in 2027.

That's far away.

Where are the help from the other surrounding municipalities here?

Because we have 60 shelter beds, Beaverton has 60 shelter heads, shelter beds.

Don't quote that.

But they're twice the size we are.

So we need more help.

We need other people to help us.

In the meantime, to be to just kind of back up.

I think we should change the time.

I would prefer seven to seven, but that's not usable, so let's do seven to eight.

Um no fencing, don't make it any bigger.

And if people if we have certain people who are repeatedly being required to, hey, this is your wake-up call.

Stop arguing, stop yelling in the streets, stop trespassing on your neighbors, those people should not be welcomed back.

Okay, uh, thank you.

And uh when I mentioned fencing, I assume that is getting information and data, not support.

So I just want to clarify that.

I just I'm looking for information there.

Thanks, Megan.

Um let me just get get to the easy part.

So there's consensus for changing the time.

So please go ahead with that change, from seven to eight.

That's not preferred, but I think that's well the most of us will will be able to support.

Uh council President Wolf, please.

I will go fast.

Thank you, Counselor Who.

And I just wanted to circle back to you know, the conversation that Councillor Schlack brought up, counselor Robbins brought up, goes back to the conversation, Mayor who that you were very passionate about this summer, and where I still am an advocate for chart to kind of bring all these operational pieces together.

I encourage as a council that we become advocates.

We're not we are punching above as a regional partner.

We are really anchoring a chunk of Washington County.

So our strategy and our approach, in my opinion, needs to be more.

What additional supports should we expect, whether that's regional or statewide, to make this happen because of what we are providing for the county and the region, and that's my two cents, so thank you.

Thank you, youth counselor Helleck.

Hi.

Um I have not been with this council for a long time.

So I don't I'm not as familiar with the how homelessness in Tigered as everyone here is, but I think that the time change is a positive thing, and I think that we need like staying on public works is important and staying within public works or having a designated area.

I don't think that the public works area is the best place necessarily, but I personally, when I was younger, and I grew up in Tiger, born in Portland, grew up in Tigered.

And when I was young, I used to go in the woods at like Woodard Park or something.

And I think about other kids and how they probably don't have to come across that as much of the public works camping.

And I'm I'm curious as to what a fence would do really.

Like I understand the idea of like appearances, I guess, but I just I don't understand what the point of a fence would be because I can all I picture is like a white picket fence, which I'm sure wouldn't be it.

Yeah, make an answer that quickly.

Yeah.

So I just want to clarify that the fencing that we are exploring and talking about right now is just like a low-lying two-foot fence just to demarcate clearly where people can and can't camp on the public works lawn so that we are able to more clearly enforce when people are outside of that designated area.

Um so it would not be like a shielding wall type of fence.

It's just a low-lang and it would it would not go up to the sidewalk.

It would be to demarcate sort of landscape areas and uh the lawn itself.

Okay.

So I just want to jump in because of time.

So excuse me.

So I think there's a majority's uh wishing to still stay at public works.

Um I can see what consular Schlack is, and I I can I'm but I I think I can go that way, but my concern is that as you said, if we ban there, where are people going to go, right?

They may go to other parts of downtown and so um, but anyway, the majority says stay in public works, but and uh council president Wolf would like us to work with other partnering to chart to discover what would be actual practical solutions for you know managing personal belongings and and and things like that.

And just I just want to echo one thing that one of our uh public um mentioned um uh uh Ms.

Voorhee about transparency about you know you mentioned that um we have four staff members actually working on it, but as as a council member, I don't know what they're doing, to be honest.

So if there's a way of actually tracking, like keeping a log of I know you maybe at additional work or maybe something you're already doing, but at least just to show that public that we're actually working on something like enforcing it, right?

Because as an FDA lawyer, I'm used to if you don't write it down, it didn't happen, right?

So if if our stab is doing that already, please provide that kind of data to us just to show the public we're actually doing enforcement, right?

Because it's not satisfying when I wrote back to them said no violation was found.

I mean people don't know that the work behind that statement, right?

So um transparency, that's very important.

It's not just doing the work.

So if our you know officers or enforcement officer can actually provide keep track of that and providing us data, that would be very helpful.

So um last three minutes.

Oh, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Respecting the uh consensus of my colleagues, when can we expect to have an amended uh time place manner ordinance before the council?

Because I'm uh I think a lot of my frustration is a lot of talk and it doesn't feel like there's a lot of action, and I'd like to see this certainly done before Christmas.

I know our meetings start drying up, and I know we have a lot on our agenda, but considering the uh robust debate that we've had this evening, I feel like uh in the pretty clear consensus that could be passed relatively uh quickly on an agenda.

I believe that we could bring forward uh some ordinance changes uh in December.

I'll have to uh check everything, but um the time I'm hearing consensus around the time change um and then some uh cleanup around the enforcement language with it still being on public works lawn.

Um I think we could bring that relatively quickly.

Um we would have the public hearing and then uh there would be a period of education before that would take effect, so 30 days um after the first reading, I believe.

Um I also just wanted to say quickly that we are still trying to identify uh another site option if we can.

Um we have not yet identified something, but we continue to have conversations about it and are trying to look at every option um that is brought to us uh to see what might else be on the table um for a different site.

All right, so it's one minute.

Go ahead.

Do we have a good neighbor agreement for the public works parking or any sort of I don't want to say documentation because that would result in more literature, any sort of education about what is expected for behavior?

I know that uh just compassion does have a good neighbor agreement that is posted right on their website, but are there any expectations or is there any relationship between just compassion and the folks camping if they aren't following a you know appropriate behavior standards?

Thank you for the question.

Um we actually have stronger enforcement language because this is a city ordinance, so this goes beyond a good neighbor agreement is something that's enforceable and citable if folks do not follow the um rules that are expected.

The time place and manner ordinance does set clear rules and expectations for behavior and site conditions, which include requirements around prohibited activities and permitting camp at time camping times to ensure those standards are met.

Tigered Police and Just Compassion Street Outreach regularly visit the site to educate campers about the rules, offer services, um, and address issues as they arise.

Uh rules and expectations are posted on site and communicated to individuals as part of ongoing outreach and engagement uh efforts.

I'll just note that um good neighbor agreements typically rely on mutual commitments between like a managing organization and program participants.

Um, and that is not feasible in this context because campers are not enrolled participants of a program.

Um so, really, what we're focusing on is consistent enforcement of those posted rules, the direct engagement with folks and coordinating between our departments to manage the site.

Um, so really it goes beyond anything that we'd be able to offer in a good neighbor agreement.

Great question.

Yeah, thank thank you for that question because to me as a lawyer, good neighbor agreement just a piece of paper.

So uh as Megan pointed out, our ordinance is much stronger than, but going back to my point, we need documentation to show neighbors and community partners we're actually enforcing it.

And right now we're just telling them we're enforcing it without any documented so uh so I think that's frustrating part of frustration.

So uh so yeah, so thank you for uh for being here.

And I tried to keep us on time, so we will keep communicating.

We'll keep the communication form.

Mayor, the council president's had our hand raised for a few minutes.

All right, Council President Wolf, I'll give you one minute.

I I will take 30 seconds.

So, Megan, my question is is there a meeting with chart before December?

I understand Councillor Schlack's interest in timing, but I really would like their guidance and their dig deep on this.

And my second point just for clarity is I am interested in alternative sites, not new city property, but would really like that explored and again a conversation with chart.

Thank you, Mayor Who, and thank you, Counselor Swatt.

Thank you.

The answer is yes.

Yes, yes, and I think there's a consensus for different side, but not expanding city side.

So good.

That point's clear.

Thank you for the clarification.

And mayor, if I may go ahead.

The chart committee is transparent meeting.

It's open to the public, is it not?

I believe so.

Yeah.

So uh to your point about transparency.

Um just wanted to note that.

Thank you.

So we'll keep the community informed and continue to be transparent as we move forward.

So thank you again to Megan and staff and everyone who's engaged on this issue.

So thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

All right, only two minutes over.

Not bad.

All right.

So next one, uh, next item agenda is River Terrace 2.0, natural resources and housing update.

And we'll an update will be provided by Senior Planet Gata and Walker, Macy Consultants, uh, Cameron Blakely, and Samyakini, who will give a demonstration during the slide show.

There's a slide presentation.

Welcome.

Hi there, good evening, City Council members.

My name is Brittany Gata.

I'll be providing staff's presentation on the River Terrace 2.0 housing and natural resources update.

Um, like Mayor Who mentioned, I'm joined by members of my consultant team who work for the Walker Macy Consulting Firm, and they'll be providing um a demonstration during part of this presentation about three development scenarios that we have created for you to test the feasibility of these approaches in River Terrace 2.0.

Um, and they'll also be demonstrating two 3D models that have been created.

Next slide, please, Cameron.

Um the presentation this evening is going to provide a very brief overview on the engagement that we've been up to so far.

And the main purpose of why we're here tonight is to share an overview of the housing and natural resources approaches with City Council and to get feedback on those drafts.

We'll also be sharing the development scenarios that I mentioned, including three different site plans and two 3D models before heading into next steps for this project.

Next slide, please.

We've been quite busy with engagement this fall.

We recently had an open house which was able to connect with about a hundred people, both in person and online.

We've also had four online surveys which have connected with 430 people to date.

So those are still open and running.

And we have also been meeting with various community organizations throughout the Tiger area.

We also hosted a developer forum event, which was created at the request of the development community to have more opportunities for participation in this project.

And that was held at the end of September, which included 23 attendees from different professional development backgrounds.

Next slide, please.

Okay, let's get into the draft natural resources protection approach.

Next slide.

So River Terrace 2.0 is quite unique as it is subject to Metro's Title 13 requirements for natural resource protections.

And based on developer feedback, we heard that the Title 13 model code that Metro provides as an option for proving compliance with their requirements was too restrictive and it didn't allow enough land for development.

So the city chose to create a customized protection approach in order to comply with Metro's rules.

And our customized approach prioritizes flexibility while maximizing developable land developable land, all while meeting Title 13 requirements to create an inventory and a protection approach.

We have spent significant time working with Metro to vet our custom approach.

And this was not a part of the original scope of River Terrace 2.0.

Back during the concept plan process, it was actually not even known that we were subject to Title 13 requirements.

We've had to pivot significantly to develop a new approach for this component of the project.

And we continue to work with Metro and we'll continue engagement to continue refining the natural resource protections approach.

Next slide, please.

The first part of this Title 13 compliant program is again the creation of a natural resources inventory, which categorizes habitat areas based on both location and also the ecological value of habitat land in River Terrace 2.0.

And based on Metro's rules, this inventory has to be based on the resources that existed in River Terrace 2.0 when the area was brought into the urban growth boundary in February 2023.

So this map is actually showing the resources as they existed back in 2023, not necessarily as they exist right now, and that's because of Metro's rules.

The inventory is a core part of the Title 13 approach that Tiger is customizing as it uses a tiered approach to protect higher value habitat land and place lower protection requirements on lower quality habitat land.

So in this list, the high and moderate tier one areas require more protection because those areas have higher quality habitat compared to the tier two areas.

And in this way, this structure allows us to reduce protections for natural areas compared to the model code while prioritizing protections for the most valuable habitat land.

Next slide, please.

The draft approach has been created with the intention of balancing the spectrum of comments and priorities from the community and development professionals.

And natural resource protection and access to nature were the top identified priorities of the community, while flexibility incentives and opening up more land for housing development have been the communicated priorities of the development community.

We've also heard that natural resources should be ground truth ahead of development, which is a which is not possible to allow.

And the reason for that is twofold.

The first is based on Metro's rule again that this inventory be based on conditions in 2023, but also it's based on limited site access being granted by property owners at the beginning of the community plan project.

So the inventory had to be created using publicly available information like aerial imagery using Metro's methodology.

So ground truthing was not something that we could be working into the project based on those factors.

Next slide, please.

This slide is summarizing the two development pathways that are available for the natural resources approach.

These details and more were provided in the overview document that was included in the agenda materials, so I won't go into full details about each pathway.

However, both the clear and objective and discretionary approaches prioritize the protection of higher value habitat area by placing a higher percentage of protection requirement on those higher value lands.

And the reason why the discretionary approach on the right hand side is able to lower those protection approaches in every single category is because enhanced mitigation will be required of development taking that approach.

And it also allows the city the opportunity to negotiate things like public benefits, such as public trails and access to nature in exchange for reduced resource protections.

These pathways have both been shaped by developer input, including the creation of a creative land swap option, which is towards the middle of the chart.

It allows developers to actually eliminate the lowest value tier two habitat in exchange for protecting higher value habitat in tier one.

We've also made changes which allow specimen trees to count towards the required protections, and we'll also be incorporating different incentives and flexibility into the approach for moderate specimen trees, which was a request.

Metro has reviewed the draft natural resources approach, and they've provided us with positive feedback so far.

We're far from finalizing our work with Metro, and we'll be continuing to work with them and engage with community community members and the development community as we continue to refine this approach.

Next slide, please.

Okay, next will be an overview of the draft housing approach.

Next slide, please.

The draft housing approach has been an evolution since the concept plan process, which ended in 2021, and even since the draft housing plan for the community plan was shared with City Council this past June.

Since then, the housing approach has been refined based on input from both the community and from development professionals.

But we've also been forced to adjust to the new planning context that we find ourselves in for this community plan project.

Not only has Tigered experienced major societal shifts during and after the COVID-19 pandemic, but the economy has also changed greatly due to increased inflation and substantial increases in home prices.

So this has centered affordability concerns at the forefront of community priorities for this area.

And also much has changed in state law related to middle housing, mandatory adjustments, design standards, and approval processes.

And we also have the new requirements of the Oregon housing needs analysis, which will hold Tiger accountable for providing housing production aligned with its income bans.

And we've heard from developers that it's not feasible to deliver 20 units per acre across the plan area, nor is it feasible to provide multiple housing types on one block.

Those have been core concerns of the development community since the early days of the community plan project, and we've been revising accordingly.

This will be one of our primary opportunities to deliver housing that meets those requirements.

Next slide, please.

So as I mentioned, community and developer input have been incorporated into this plan in several ways.

And other than affordability, the community's main priorities have been to provide housing in this area that meets everyone's needs.

And that includes accessible homes and climate resilient homes at the top of the list.

Developers in particular have been asking why are we not replicating the success that we saw in River Terrace?

We've heard this time and time again, and River Time, River Time, River Terrace 2.0 is never intended to be a duplicate of River Terrace 1.0.

In fact, it was always intended to be an iteration and an improvement on River Terrace 1.0.

Since we heard from the community that River Terrace was not affordable to most, and it did not provide the full range of housing needs that the Tiger community is requiring at this time.

And changes have been made in response to these comments, and staff is committed to continuing to work with developers and meet with them to better understand these concerns.

Next slide, please.

I'm not going to spend too much time, but I'm excited to share with you the first draft of the zoning map for River Terrace 2.0.

On this map, there are three different residential zones.

They are River Terrace Residential A in yellow, River Terrace Residential B in the light or lighter orange, and River Terrace Residential C in the darker orange color.

Next slide, please.

So in these three draft residential zones, there are a list of allowed housing types, a minimum required units per acre, and a maximum height requirement.

The net density requirement has been structured to respond to developer feedback about feasibility concerns for 20 dwelling units per acre by reducing the minimum net density in two of the zones down to 10 dwelling units per acre and 18 units per acre while still accomplishing the council directive to provide 20 dwelling units per acre in this area since the concept plan.

The maximum height in the RTRC zone was also raised to four stories in response to developer feedback during the developer forum.

Next slide, please.

This approach also includes requirements that development provide undersupplied housing options.

And these are categories or features of housing that have been identified in either housing needs analyses in the region or based on community input.

And in order to provide more flexibility for development and allowing them to choose how they meet this requirement, it's been structured as a credit-based system with a menu of options.

And this allows development to pick the options that work best for them on a case-by-case basis, whether that's factors related to topography or their designs of their homes or other things.

And the types of undersupplied housing options that would earn credits are smaller units, family-sized apartments, which that one in particular was added at the recommendation of developers.

But we also include things like common courtyards, accessible units, and affordable housing.

Next slide, please.

A discretionary approach will also be available for development in River Terrace 2.0.

This approach is still in development, but it will include flexibility for minimum density, undersupplied housing options, and flexible standards.

And part of the discretionary approach is that it allows the city this opportunity to negotiate with developers to provide public benefits and to be consistent with the community plan.

Next slide, please.

Okay.

The second to last section of the presentation will provide demonstrations of the development scenarios that were prepared for three different sites in River Terrace 2.0.

And to test the feasibility of our housing and natural resources approach and also to visualize the neighborhood scale and the mass of these areas, the project team prepared these conceptual sites.

And at the request of city council back in June, two of these have been created into 3D models.

A third site was actually added at the end of September based on a recommendation from a developer who attended the developer forum recommending that we test our assumptions on a smaller single site.

So we've added a roughly 20-acre parcel to a third development scenario.

And just because of the time involved to create a 3D model, we weren't able to create a 3D model with that third site.

So these three scenarios were all created using site-specific data for things like topography and natural resources.

But it also used nearby developments for examples of different lot sizes, building footprints to make sure that our assumptions used were accurate and also realistic based on nearby examples.

And we did share these assumptions that were used to create the scenarios with developers during the developer forum.

We did get a comment that we needed to change our apartment assumptions, which we did, but otherwise we didn't get any comments or any concerns about the information that was used to develop these.

Next slide, please.

Before I pass it off to my consultant team to run through the 3D model, I'll just provide an overview of the first development scenario.

This one is a real area of River Terrace 2.0 south, and it's meeting the clear and objective pathway, which means that in each of its zones, it's meeting the minimum density requirement.

The housing types are color-coded according to the legend on the screen.

Most of these homes are single detached units, which is in yellow.

And at the far right of this site plan in the RTRA zone, it's using single detached homes and one cottage cluster development to meet the 10 units per acre requirement.

And in the larger middle section in RTRB, over two-thirds of the units are detached units, and the site was able to meet that 18 units per acre requirement.

Lastly, there is an RTRC zone at the bottom left, which used apartments between three and four stories to meet the requirement.

And Cameron, if you'll please go to the next slide, I'll pass it off to you to share the 3D model for this one.

Great.

Thank you.

Can everyone hear me okay?

Thank you.

Okay.

So I will pull up the model.

Yeah, so as Brittany mentioned, uh Walker Macy was brought on to develop uh these illustratives and three new models to understand how a mixture of housing and ample open space could be laid out in a way that aligns with the city's goals and standards.

So looking at that same southern site, uh, just to orient you a little bit.

This road here on the bottom is uh Beef Bend Road, and then we have 150th Avenue coming in uh north-south here.

Kingston Terrace is this area on the south side in white, and then um the portions of uh River River Terrace 1.0 that are being developed are up here to the north.

This larger green is um river crossing terrace park.

So if we zoom in and take a closer look.

So in brown um are our apartment buildings um ranging from three to four floors and using a 1200 square foot unit uh assumption, and that accounts for uh stairwells, um hallways, and other shared spaces.

Um in dark blue are our multiplex buildings, um, two to three floors, 12 units per building, and that same uh 1200 gross square foot unit assumption.

If we orbit around here a little bit.

Um so in yellow, uh we have our single detached units.

Uh these range from 2100 to uh 4500 square feet uh per lot, and that varies depending on if they're front loaded or alley loaded product.

Um then here in light blue, we have our mixed housing um duplexes and triplexes ranging from 2100 to 4500 square feet on the lot.

And then we also have a series of stacked flats with four units per building.

Here in purple are the cottage homes, and these are quite um, these are placed on quite small footprints under a thousand square feet.

Um and then in orange are our town homes ranging from 1100 to 1900 square feet on the lot.

And here we'll kind of drop down into the street, and you can get a sense of how some of the homes are relating to the street and what that streetscape starts to look like.

And then here can orbit around.

You can get a sense of how some of these lots, some of these units start to relate to uh the public park, it's kind of central public park square.

Um creating a nice street edge and offering a mixture of housing uh typologies.

I'll zoom back out.

And we'll go back to the next site.

Great, thank you so much, Cameron.

This second was this presented at the developer forum, the 3D model.

The 3D models were not since they were not available when the developer forum was held.

Thank you.

The second development scenario is a site that is meeting the discretionary path, which means that it does not meet the minimum density by zone.

Instead, they have the flexibility to spread it out regardless of the zone boundaries.

So in this example, the site is meeting an overall density of 20 units per net acre.

And it does so by providing 44% detached units, either through single detached homes or cottage clusters.

The remainder of the units are different attached products like townhomes, apartments, duplexes, triplexes.

And it also includes a main street commercial area along the Bull Mountain Corridor.

This site also included some specimen trees.

So we tested the feasibility of protecting specimen trees, which in this particular example was able to be done with small private and public parks.

And I'll let you go to the next slide, Cameron, and you can take us through the 3D model for this one.

Great.

Okay.

So looking at this west site, we have Roy Rogers as this main arterial to the right side, and we have Bull Mountain Road coming in right through the middle of the site here.

And existing River Terrace One development is to the north and to the east over on this side.

Orbiting around.

We can zoom in.

So unit sizing for this site, we ran with the same assumptions as previously.

For both of these sites, we are sitting at 20 units per net acre for density across the whole site.

And of those units, between 40 and 45% are single dwelling units.

And here you can see the main entrance from Bull Mountain Road.

And we'll kind of do a little flyover from this kind of high density zone into the lower zone, lower density zones.

And here in the foreground, you can see some of those specimen trees that Brittany had called out.

And you can get a sense of the street and alley layout and the mixture of housing.

And we'll fly in on this last street here, where you can get a sense of the mixture of housing units, front-loaded single dwelling units on the right, our mixed housing, townhomes, and cottage clusters on the left.

All of this striving to create a variety of housing options and price points.

Thank you, Cameron.

So the third development scenario site is an 18.8 acre existing parcel in the River Terrace 2.0 south area.

So we again at the recommendation of a developer, we chose this site to test the feasibility on a single parcel and a smaller one at that.

And just a reminder the B is the 18 units per acre while the C is 28 units per acre.

And overall, this site was able to achieve 22 units per net acre.

So it was actually able to exceed the minimum goal of the plan area of 20.

And they were able to do so by providing in the 18 unit per acre area, 57% detached units, with the remainder being townhomes.

You'll also see townhomes and apartments in the RTRC area.

So based on the findings of the three development scenarios that the consultant team prepared, the draft housing and natural resources approaches were found to be feasible and not present a significant departure from what we've seen in River Terrace and also what we know has been approved for development in Kingston Terrace.

But refinements to these approaches will continue to be made and we'll continue engaging with the community and developers as this project moves forward.

Next slide, please.

Staff will be attending some upcoming planning commission and city council meetings on November 3rd.

We'll be meeting with the planning commission for the annexation ordinance hearing process.

We'll also be providing a brief update on housing, natural resources, and parks.

December 2nd City Council meeting, we'll be hearing that annexation ordinance and considering that for adoption.

And staff is also scheduled to provide a transportation update on December 2nd.

This may be postponed to allow for more time for coordination with other jurisdictions.

But the next time we'll be presenting to city council for River Terrace 2.0 is uh November 18th for a parks update.

Um and the project is still on track for a fall 2026 adoption process.

Um and that's the end of staff's presentation for the housing and natural resources update.

I'd be happy to answer any of your questions, and I appreciate council's input on this project.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, now questions coming.

Council Schlack, please go ahead.

Thank you.

Um one quick question.

Um you mentioned 20 units per acre was a council directive.

Did I hear that correctly?

That's correct from the concept plan process.

When was this again?

Uh 2021 is when the count concept plan was adopted.

Got it.

That explains why I don't I don't I don't recall that.

Um cool.

I mean, my I think there's a lot of development, you know, going on.

And um I want to thank you and the team for your hard work on this complicated and important project because River Terrace 2.0 is one of my top priorities.

This isn't just some sort of, you know, a grant, one-time grant or a resolution or something that can be undone with the stroke of a pen.

This is going to be paving roads and pouring sidewalks and building houses.

So it's really important that we get it right.

I still have a lot of questions on this to get me from sort of where we're at now to a yes and an approval many months from now.

So I look forward to working with you and the team to get my questions understood.

And because I've I read a number of the documents here, I read a number of the developer concerns, and I want to uh make sure that there's a good balance between what the developer community as the community that's actually going to build River Terrace 2.0 needs in order to do it and what the community wants.

And I also want to understand maybe I need to go back to the 2021 concept plan to understand what council's directive was at the time versus what is sort of uh the state imposing down on us because of various regional and statewide housing considerations and what Metro is requiring, because I think there's a lot of um external factors that are having to be considered here and a lot of additional laws and regulations.

And it's uh just as a lay person, it's very hard for me to follow what is within our zone of control, our sphere of influence on council versus something that is being um put upon us because of uh considerations of what other political bodies think is the greater good.

Uh at the end of the day, I'm here to represent the constituents of Tigert and do what's right for our community.

And that's why I still have a lot of questions on this.

But I recognize there's a lot of time to get them answered.

Thank you.

Counselor Robins.

Thank you.

And thank you for facilitating all of this for getting the 3D models, because I know especially Council President Wolf really wanted to see that.

And it does really help to be able to visualize what it's going to look like.

This is an exciting development, but I do also have a lot of questions and some concerns.

Um I'm not a developer, I'm not an architect.

So I've done a lot of reading, probably too much and looking in the wrong places.

But um, but I do think that 20 units per acre is doable.

I have concerns about these for a number a couple of reasons.

One is I am very, very, very concerned about parking.

I realize that we are trying to have less cars and with state laws saying now we can't have minimums or maximums or whichever it is.

But in reality, most, you know, that some of these homes, I think they said were 4,500 square feet.

That's an expensive house.

That house is going to have at least two cars, right?

Um, I now have three cars because I have a kid with a car too.

And so if these places, I just don't see the parking availability here.

You know, I imagine some of the apartments will have two cars.

And so are there a thousand parking spots for the 500 apartments or whatever the numbers are?

I really do worry about that because I've lived in a place where you had to have three people in apartments, and you only got one parking space.

And so those are roommates, not families, you know.

So there's a constant fight and battle about it, which then leads to concerns about safety of people riding their bike and walking because where are the cars, right?

And so that's that.

The other thing is I am concerned that this development that we are shown here is not what I saw being requested by the public.

Um we and what we were told in at least I can't say the beginning, so here in the beginning, but you know, even more recently that the commercial was going to be scattered throughout the community.

So you could just kind of go down the street to the local pizza.

And that sounds great to me.

I would love to be able to walk down the street and get an ice cream cone or walk a half a mile and get a pizza.

But I don't see that here.

I see in the second scenario, there's one little red spot that says commercial next to the apartments, and then there's mixed use underneath what I think are apartments all along Main Street there, which by the way, that's just gonna pour traffic out of there up Bull Mountain, which we are inundated with people saying there's too much traffic on Bull Mountain.

Um, so those are concerns for me.

Um there's nothing else there.

There's on the the flat map, there is an area, no, on the the plan way up at the top, there is a large red area in the, I think northmost, right by Shoals Ferry.

That I think that's where we're talking about having a grocery store and stuff like that.

The the southern area on the map on slide 12 does have a tiny line of commercial, but the 3D map didn't have any commercial.

Okay.

And so, and then when I looked in the comments for the um the feedback, one of the things said um a grocery store and a pharmacy were especially wanted in the southern section.

So the section that in the the uh the 3D model has no commercial is where they want a grocery store and a pharmacy.

And so we're talking about this being a walkable, bikeable place where people can go anywhere.

No one is going to walk to a grocery store way up there or ride a bike way up there.

And so this does not this looks like just kind of a I don't want to be rude and say cookie cutter, but it looks like you know, house house, house, house, house, apartment, apartment, apartment without that.

And yet the comments were can this be like Multnomah Village?

It doesn't look like it's gonna be like Multnomah Village to me.

Um there's nowhere for people to work here.

So if we're expecting people to not have cars, they have to be able to work in this neighborhood.

And so if that's the case, so we need to make a decision.

Are we gonna say if you want to live here, we recommend that you don't have a car because there's not a lot of parking, but you can work here because there's places to work here.

That's excellent.

And I think there is a desire for that.

But if if there's not going to be that with commercial scattered throughout, then we have to expect that people are going to be driving somewhere else to work.

If I do like the 3D models.

Thank you.

Counselor Shaw.

Oh, Brittany, you have a new response.

Um if I may, please.

Thank you.

Thank you, Counselor Robbins.

I really appreciate your comments.

Um, I I think I the main thing I wanted to focus focus on is that if there's one thing that unites the community developers, staff and city council, it's parking concerns.

Um we've heard it from every single group we've engaged with.

Um, and it's front of mind in our planning process.

And um, at least for these development scenarios that were prepared, um, we did um make very um targeted assumptions for parking.

The single detached homes included, I know it's probably it might sound insufficient, but one to two spaces on site.

Um, that would be private parking either in a driveway or in a garage.

Um, and the apartments all included one space per unit, and that's not counting on-street parking, which is a totally separate consideration that we'll be working with in the transportation work for this project.

Um, it's our um top priority for the transportation work to make sure that on-street parking is maximized.

Um, and that'll happen through a variety of methods, both in street designs and development rules, and we still have a lot of work to do to refine those ideas, um, but it is front of mind since we have heard um resoundingly that parking is desperately needed in this area based on what we've seen in River Terrace.

Um, and also I just wanted to note that we did do an economic um analysis for the commercial areas and we did evaluate feasibility for commercial to be provided in that River Terrace 2.0 south area.

And based on the findings of that study, that area was not believed to support a larger commercial area, which is why it had the smaller kind of ground floor commercial area in that location, whereas that northernmost area was identified for the grocery store size businesses or like a medical offices type of facility because it has greater visibility on Shoals Ferry Road.

But this particular development scenario for the River Terrace 2.0 South area didn't include that commercial area.

It was a little bit further east.

So that's why there just wasn't any included in the 3D model.

But my last comment is about the cookie cutter nature of this.

That was one thing that we expected just based on the limitations of providing a 3D model.

Walker Macy has a library of different housing typologies.

And they did try and mix and match a little bit, but we were a little bit limited in adjusting the design.

But I do think your comment is well taken, and we've heard from the community as well that they don't want to live in a cookie cutter community.

And that will come when we start digging into more of the development code updates later on.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Counselor Shaw.

I want to thank Council Robbins for your insightful uh analysis and thank you to the staff for uh the excellent presentation, the 3D models, and all the time you put in into in particular the open house road shows, because I know there's a lot of time spent there.

Um I was on the council in 2021, uh, but as mentioned, um, a number of things have changed.

We have had new state laws, we've had the Oregon housing needs analysis, we've had um planning commissions negated.

Uh we've also um I would say with Metro's Title 13, have a bit of our hands tied, and it's too bad that um Metro Councilor Rosenthal left because I would have loved to have asked him a few Title 13 questions.

Um in addition, um, I think Tiger has punched way above its weight when it comes to housing.

And I also, similar to that discussion we had earlier, I think other communities need to step up.

Um I also similar to Council Schlack, I have lots of questions.

I'm concerned that Metro would waive habitat ecology depending on if it's higher density or lower density.

I think ecology is important, habitat's important, and to me to say you can if you're gonna put more density in, you can waive.

Very concerned about that.

I'm also concerned we've only had one developer form.

I think they're the folks who are going to be building, they're the folks who have the on-the-ground expertise.

It's great we've had open house shows, it's great that we've had community engagement.

Um, but I would like to see additional forms.

I know they're coming, but I think we need to get them engaged earlier.

I'm also concerned parking hasn't been, and I know Brittany, you've heard me say over and over parking, parking, parking, but it didn't appear anywhere in this, and I'm also very concerned.

Uh, we know parking is a huge issue in Death Tiger Triangle, also over near Fred Myers behind 99, also in River Terrace 1.0.

Why are we going to set ourselves up for another 40 to 50 years of problems?

Just does not make sense to me.

Um, I'm concerned about the lack of commercial, understand the economic analysis, but um I think there's an opportunity here to maybe even work with King City because there is a lot of individuals that'd be coming from that area who could utilize pharmacy or shopping or combined.

And I believe that is the last of my comments.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Would you like to respond, Brittany?

Or yes, thank you very much.

Um taking frantic notes.

Thank you, Councillor Shaw.

Um, thank you for your comment about the developer forum.

You're correct.

We do have two more that were intended to be held later, but on different topics.

Um your point is well taken that we do need to continue engaging with developers on specifically the topics of housing and natural resources.

You're right, we're not done.

And we have received multiple comments from developers following the forum.

We do have meetings scheduled next week with two developers, which we're looking forward to to continue discussing their concerns.

Um, and we will continue reaching out to Fed our approach with those who will actually be doing the development.

Um I do also want to mention something that both you and Counselor Robbins have mentioned about the commercial and river terrace 2.0 south.

Um we do have on the zoning map different options for mixed-use development as well.

We're taking a slightly different approach and calling it an commercial options area, which is intending to expand the commercial entrepreneurship and services and businesses further into neighborhoods rather than just those strips of commercial shown on Bull Mountain and River Terrace Boulevard.

Um so those areas were shown in the red hatched lines on the zoning map.

Um, so that will have in those areas people will be able to open standalone commercial businesses, convert homes into businesses if they wish, um, or do the more traditional ground floor commercial.

And then throughout other areas that are just residential neighborhoods in River Terrace 2.0, we're also planning to allow expanded home occupation so that people have greater ability and flexibility to open businesses out of their homes.

We're not quite there yet with the development code rules, but we are planning on increasing those allowances in River Terrace 2.0.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Counselor President Wolf.

Thank you, Mayor.

And you know, Brittany, wonderful presentation.

Really appreciate the visual in the three days to try to walk through the neighborhood.

So thank you for all of that.

And I uh really appreciate uh counselor Schlack immediately kind of posing that question about council directive because that caught my attention as well.

And thank you, Councilor Shaw for acknowledging, you know, being, you know, in your first year in 2021, but all the things that have changed.

And I I guess, you know, as we continue to refine and look, um, when I look at Exhibit B and the Metro Agreement, it talks about 3,000 homes in River Terrace.

And so I guess my guiding principles have been more what did Metro agree to and what are the state laws and not the 20 um units per acre, which has been a question of mine actually for several months.

So I don't know how the math all works, you know, where we are today, but I really appreciate the idea of this kind of flexibility, and I understand how that works.

But just again, just curious about that, how that impacts and and um does it really vary that much from where we are, you know, today and moving forward.

Um, the only other couple of things that I am interested in, love the uh conversation around commercial and retail, so I won't add anything to that as you continue to explore also the support for continued conversations with developers, completely agree with counselor Shaw on those conversations.

And you know, I I appreciated the kind of wanderings around affordable housing.

And I'm not sure, you know, capital A, small A, you know, once again, Tigered, you know, per capita basis uh punches above all other communities in the county.

And so we are doing that work.

So if it's affordable, and I I assume that's the small A, right?

What is it a reasonable price point for families?

That was would be more where I lean, uh, just because I believe we are trying to meet so many of those needs um here in Tigered.

And um so yeah, I just um thank you and just really appreciate the presentation and continued conversations with our developers and how we really make this a wonderful um uh flagship uh location to come move and live in Tiger.

So thank you.

Thank you, Council President Wolf.

Um I wanted to just briefly respond to both your comment and uh Counselor Schlack's comment about the difference between the 20 dwelling unit per acre requirement, um, excuse me, directive in the concept plan and also the Metro Urban Growth Boundary Expansion requirement to provide 3,000 homes.

So these things are all separate, but they all influence one another.

Um so um when the Urban Growth Boundary Expansion was approved by Metro back in 2023, one of the conditions of that approval was, as you mentioned, to provide at least 3,000 homes in this area.

Um and 3,000 homes was an arbitrary number that was chosen by Metro to give us an absolute bare minimum number of housing units to provide in this area to meet their requirements.

Um at that time with the Urban Growth Boundary Expansion that was associated with the concept plan project, which was completed in 2021.

So Metro's approval did acknowledge that 20 dwelling units per acre was the plan in this area.

Um and when you do the math, 20 dwelling units per acre actually equates to around 4,500 homes.

Um Metro placed 3,000 just as a bare minimum for us to meet.

Um and then um multiple counselors have mentioned Title 13 rules, which does not allow us to have the full range of developable developable land that we're used to in other areas of the city, um, which further um kind of promotes the need to more efficiently use the land in this area for housing development, which is part of the reason why um the concept plan envisioned a slightly higher net density per acre than the roughly 15 dwelling units we've been seeing per acre in uh River Terrace and other nearby developments.

Thank you.

Counselor Schlack, quick quick question related to that.

There's just so many guiding baseline documents at this point over many years.

Is there any way that um these could be um collected and resent to the council?

I mean uh the mayor was sort of joking we were looking at the second 3D model because I live right on the border there so it's like let's go see what it looks like there I'm like yeah I can imagine it I I stand there every day when I get my mail.

So it's like there's just so much to try and wrap our heads around and I think that would be helpful for me and I'm sure it would be helpful for a number of my colleagues who are all uh folks who like to do do their research.

So that would be helpful thank you I'd be happy to provide that yeah thank you Bernie and your team for your effort and uh I I'm really excited about this project right and as Counselor Shah mentioned Tiger is a very housing forward city so we're proud to continue to provide you know the much needed housing um when Consor Shaw and Consorschlag and I attend the home building association's uh housing forecast I was surprised to learn that even though we have declining population the number of housing uh household formations are actually going up so we do need a lot more housing in the future so I was surprised to learn the decoupling of those two concepts so we do need more housing but like my soft very thoughtful colleagues I have concerns especially around communicating with developer because after the first housing forum we all get lots of concern and I appreciate a one on one later on that you acknowledge that there's still more work to be done.

So I will encourage you to continue working with that developer because they are the one who ultimately have to build it so please uh have a great relationship with them and just one thing about the commercial optional comment you may is it like similar to like Tiger Home project like just make something like we want to see a small coffee shop every corner is that something that's optional is that that's that's the idea however in this commercial options area it would be a little bit more flexible where it wouldn't it would be um potentially restricted by size and um form but we really haven't gotten into the details yet but it could allow um more of like a medium sized standalone commercial use um okay like a small office building or doctor's office or something like that um but the tigered home project is very much related and informing our commercial approach to um this area in River Terrace 2.0 since we have heard from the community like was mentioned that people want more options closer to homes.

Exactly and I I appreciate I appreciate Counselor Robin's concern about parking me too but at the same time if we can offer people more walkable destination parking may not be as much of a concern although I I'm being realistic it's at the edge of urban birth growth boundary so we probably will need to drive for for a while for foreseeable future so yeah and counselor schlack thank you just one other thing.

So I just want to sort of set my expectations on what the council can and cannot do.

We're gonna approve a series of municipal code changes we're gonna approve a zoning map a transportation plan which only really covers is it just the primary street network or also the secondary street network it is the primary and secondary but not local.

Okay yes so like the road I live on on my house that is going to be set by the developer there will be if I recall from the transportation plan there will be sort of a grid of like these are good areas where roads could go but ultimately that's a developer decision.

And then the overall concept plan.

And those are really our policy tools that the council has we don't have the we don't have design standards anymore that we can set thanks to the the state legislature pretty much all applications that are going to go through for residential development are going to not go through the planning commission.

And even if they were if I recall correctly they'd be sort of quasi judicial anyway so it really doesn't meet the standards yes or no it's not a discretionary choice by the planning commission or by the council.

So I really want to caution uh when we look at the 3D map when we look at these visualizations and these concept plans those are all concepts it could look totally different from that as long as it adheres to the rules that we set.

So I want to be very careful that the council is not getting too attached to some of the ideas that are being proposed it's not going to look like that 3D model 10 years from now.

It may not at all we don't have the authority say there will be a coffee shop on this corner we can just set up the regulations and say there could be one if someone wants to develop the property that way.

So that's just a a remind something I need to remind myself every time this comes up and say publicly I suppose thank you.

Very good reminder and uh go ahead Mayor who you're absolutely right and I just wanted to add that there is one more policy tool that City Council has to help support housing development in this area and that is the funding strategy.

Yes.

So that'll be coming up uh probably late winter, maybe early spring.

Um and that will include um kind of more details about the different strategies that the project team is recommending council pursue to help um provide either direct financial support or programmatic support um to help fund these areas and develop housing.

Exactly.

And that's one way we can sort of strategically plan things, right?

Where we wanted to be.

And to the flip side of that, um, I think that would also address Councillor Robin's concern about cookie cutting, right?

Because this is not just stock photos.

So there could be different things going in as well.

I should clarify it didn't mean cookie cutter.

I realize it's just a 3D model with what you have.

I just mean house, house, house, house, house, with no coffee shops, no pizza place, you know, none of that stuff, which what a couple of comments said we wanted to be like Multnova Village, and it doesn't look like it doesn't look like the setup for Multnomah Village.

Yeah.

Which I know that was grown organically over many number of years, it wasn't built.

Right.

So Counselor Shaw last word.

Yeah, just a counselor's point.

I'm hoping it doesn't look like the 3D model.

But it's pretty to look at.

So all right.

So thank you so much again, Bernie.

Thank you very much.

All right.

All right.

That's uh we're still on time, but um Council Guzussi, you have one non-agenda item.

Is is is there a housekeeping item?

It is not, but it is something to propose that we could possibly discuss next time, but I would urge us to at least start the conversation over the next seven minutes if possible.

Uh city manager Trish, are you okay with that?

It's entirely up to you.

It's fine.

Okay.

Well, you have seven minutes.

Thank you.

Um given that SNAP funding is going to run out, basically in November, we do have a lot of community resources and a lot of community members and churches and nonprofits and things like that that are opening up their pantries and doors.

The problem is that those will run dry very quickly.

And my concern is that if we don't act, a lot of our community members will suffer.

So in thinking through some possible solutions that we could do on the city side, um, there are three specifically that came to mind that I just want to bring forward as possible solutions that we may want to consider.

Um one of them would be to consider approving advancing a portion of the fiscal year 2025-26 social services grant funds to local nonprofits providing direct food assistance in response to the exanticipated changes.

So instead of making the deadline January 1st to start those, and then we end up choosing those later on to sort of expedite that process.

Uh so these are things that we had previously talked about in the budget.

Um another possibility that we could discuss would be considering donating a portion of our travel and training budget to some of those nonprofits.

Um I know it's not necessarily something that's conventional, but uh these are unconventional times.

Um other possibilities do include things like directing awards from elsewhere in the budget or us as a council encouraging donations and partnership with some of these pantries.

Go ahead and counselor Schlack.

Just want to make sure I understand the first point.

So we awarded grants for the current fiscal year already, and I believe the distributions would already be underway for the current fiscal year.

So are you suggesting we award I'm I'm not quite understanding that one.

So consider awarding the 25-26 grants that would be opening up in January now.

Not awarding them, but selecting 26-27.

Yes, thank you.

I see.

Thank you.

Just to comment, since our fiscal year is July 1st to June, that's pretty far from the start of the fiscal year.

So they've just gotten that that money.

So I just don't know that is a an involved process of filling in applications and providing a lot of information.

So I don't think that expediting that application process will produce funds fast enough.

I do think though, thinking forward looking, we have five policy areas that we are focused on for social services.

One of them is hunger.

Uh I know we don't have we do make donations to I think the Tualet and Food Pantry and and other organizations that address hunger.

Um if the budget committee, the council wants to direct more of that funding towards um hunger-related services.

I think that's definitely a policy discussion that could be had if we want to target more of that money towards those sorts of services for the next fiscal year.

So something I I'd be open to considering.

Go ahead, Councillor Shaw.

Yeah, thank you so much, Councilor Gadusi for raising this.

Have you had this discussion or is it been too early of an idea with chart, the chart committee?

Because that's where a lot of our nonprofits could come together and talk about what their needs are, because I think at this point we may not know.

It's still a little too early to know what the needs are.

So just have you a suggestion if you haven't done so.

It is too early, and I have not discussed it with them.

Correct.

Council Parson Wolf.

Yeah, thank you, uh Counselor Gadusi for bringing that forward.

And just um I'm interested to see what um acting city manager uh Trich could have as ideas.

I know over the summer there were some matching funds to assist in the farmers market with SNAP before we got to this position.

I know uh to Councillor Schlack's point, I also believe that PAC with Pride received a substantial grant just in their normal operations, not to lead in again to this current status.

So at this point, I'm curious about what our options might be, but would certainly look to um City Manager Trich to um kind of vet those and see what would make sense for a possible next step um on where we're headed.

But it's um very, very troubling.

So thank you for bringing it forward.

Great, thank you very much.

Um I uh I'm also concerned by the news that we're all receiving about uh cuts to SNAP benefits and the uh the impact it will have across our community.

Uh we've just issued a press release today uh identifying various resources uh that are available, uh, but recognizing that everyone is is uh being impacted.

Um I spoke with Counselor Caduce earlier today, and so identifying uh possible uh funds that we might utilize uh potentially from savings uh in our budget, though we are early in the fiscal year to be identifying uh potential savings, but uh recognizing the authority you all have over your council budget, the the funds that you have.

Um the uh matching funds that were provided for the SNAP benefits to the farmers market were taken out of the city manager's office, and uh that's unfortunately not a sustainable or ongoing source, but we do try to um utilize vacancy savings or um unspent or un uh tethered funds uh where we can to alleviate some of the the burden.

But um uh potential partnership uh with some uh nonprofits or organizations.

I understand TTSD is also doing quite a bit, uh could make our dollars go farther.

Um and I had the chance to speak with Finance Director King and uh found that the uh average cost of a meal through SNAP benefits is a dollar sixty.

So even a small amount of funds uh actually feels like it goes a long way in terms of the impact to the community.

So even if it were uh it sounds like a $500, for example, commitment of funds would would make a meaningful impact.

So so these are early thoughts.

I can also let you know uh that um uh I can follow up with the finance team and provide you with uh more concrete numbers and recommendations if if you like.

Thank you.

Please do that.

Okay.

And uh second one, uh, do we have the authority to donate um our travel fund for we do?

Okay, and do we want to talk about that?

Or is that a voluntary can we just make a voluntary to see you go ahead and I just have a quick question because we came on to council in January and I was told at that time you have a budget of this amount.

And so that seems to follow the calendar year rather than the fiscal year.

Is that correct?

Or it was my budget for the calendar year?

It's uh it's based on the fiscal year.

So the money that I didn't use from January to June, we we don't carry over, we have a zero-based budget.

So uh your your funds are replenished afresh uh July 1.

Okay.

Okay.

Counselor Shaw.

Uh thank you so much, City Manager Trish, or Assistant City Manager Trich.

Um I definitely would like to have us work with our nonprofit so we know what the need is.

Um so we're just not guessing uh at this point.

And we want to make sure we're strategic and partnering and giving the the funds that were to come to the right um entity.

So it goes directly to those who need the step.

And not to administration and other issues.

So I agree with counselor shaw on making sure that this is a very targeted set of donations.

We did cut our, well, the counselors, I should say, cut their travel budget by 10 percent.

Um, but even if we were to cut the mayor's budget by 10 percent to align with the council cut, that's still a thousand bucks or so, which would make a meaningful impact.

And that's actually ultimately at Mayor Who's discretion.

But since you put the dollar figure, that's a that's an easy immediate option.

And um forgive me if this is uh a bit petty to mention, but the council did issue a scale back direction for our special events uh budget.

So I'm sure that if we are able to find savings for those four one-day events, we could convert that into longer term um food sustainability for our community as an option of area where we could potentially find some savings.

Thank you.

Okay.

Go ahead, city attorney.

Thanks, Council.

So I did just want to clarify on the travel and training budget one.

Um so my recommendation would be would be to not have that be an independent decision of each individual counselor, but rather to be a policy direction of council that that is an appropriate use of those funds.

So if it is something that you wish to entertain, allowing each counselor to do, I would suggest that council basically broaden the use of those funds as opposed to it being an individual counselor's um spending money, so to say, because it's not that.

So just wanted to clarify that point.

Okay, thank you.

So there's an interest in this that discussion.

Yes?

There's an interesting discussion, and I actually appreciate counselor Schlack's comment of if the mayor were to so choose uh reduction similar to the council, that that's something we would support, and I agree it would be from a council as a whole.

And then once we determine what the needs are, then we can come back and address what if there's additional monies to be found.

Yeah, happy to entertain that as a policy option, but of course that uh I think Councillor Shaw's initial direction of working with chart in our nonprofit partners is a more immediate step, but certainly we should have that policy discussion.

Um it seem it seems valuable, especially since we have a zero sum option and it could do some good in our community.

Okay.

Is that good?

All right.

All right, so it's fine.

There being no additional items, this meeting is adjourned.

Good night, Tiger.

This would have gone.