Good evening, everyone, and welcome to this month's hearing of the Tuscaloosa Historic Preservation Commission.

I am Kathy Pagani.

I chair the commission.

Uh today's date is August 13th, 2025, and the time is 5 o'clock PM.

I would like to invite my fellow commission members to introduce themselves to you, beginning on my right, please.

I'm Matt McCool.

Why am I already Trisha Stone?

Cooper Shattock.

Thank you very much.

And joining us from city staff, we have Mr.

Hudson Cheshire, the associate city attorney, Mr.

Jonathan Bowen, Zoning Administrator, and Mr.

Liam O'Leary Planner.

Kevin Jones is assisting with audiovisual support for this evening.

Before we hear our cases this this evening, I would like to go over the purpose and the procedures for tonight's hearing.

The general purpose of the Historic Preservation Commission is that we serve to preserve and protect the buildings, sites, and structures of historic significance and interest in Tuscaloosa's historic neighborhoods.

We are governed by our Chapter 20, Article 2 of the Code of Tuscaloosa, which includes design guidelines that are posted on the city's website.

Our decisions are based on these design guidelines and do not consider use or occupancy.

We do consider such factors as architectural style, appropriateness of materials, and how the structure relates to other structures in the immediate neighborhood in determining the appropriateness of the application.

An approval of an application requires five affirmative votes.

If the certificate is approved, please be aware that there will be a final inspection by city staff of approved applications to ensure compliance with what the commission has approved this evening.

Let me go over the procedure for tonight just briefly.

This is a public hearing.

It is televised live on local cable, streamed online through Facebook, and is being recorded to be posted on the city's website.

We ask proper decorum, civility, and respect for others at all times.

Prior to this meeting, notice was sent to adjacent property owners, and the public has been notified of the applications presented tonight.

This hearing is a chance for the applicant to present their case, for the public to make their views known about the project, and for the commission members to gather relevant facts about the application before making its decision.

City staff will introduce the application.

The applicant will then have a chance to make any comments.

The commissioners will then have the opportunity to ask the applicant questions about the application.

I will then open the hearing to public comment.

At the close of public comment, the commission will then discuss the matter and vote on the application.

A notarized designation of agent form should have been provided to city staff or any representatives of an application that are not the property owner or immediate family member of the owner prior tonight's hearing.

Immediate family members, and we define that as a spouse, a parent, or child.

Do not have to provide such written authorization when speaking on behalf of another immediate family member.

And we ask that you please leave the signs in your yard.

City staff will be around in the next couple of days to pick them up.

Okay, so moving on to business for tonight.

As the Historic Preservation Commission members have received synopses of the May 2025, June 2025, and July 2025 meetings, I move that we dispense with the reading of the synopses of the same unless there are any deletions, additions, or corrections.

Hearing none.

Do I have a motion to move motion a second to move the dispensing of the reading of those synopses?

So moved.

I have a motion.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Thank you.

And we'll vote beginning on my right, please, Mr.

McCool.

Yes.

Dr.

Yarbrough?

Yes.

Ms.

Stone?

Yes.

Mr.

Shatdock?

Yes.

And I vote yes.

All right.

Do high motion and a second to approve said synopses.

And voting, let's begin on my left this time.

Mr.

Shattock.

Yes.

Ms.

Stone.

Yes.

Dr.

Yarbrough?

Yes.

Mr.

McCool.

Yes.

And I vote yes as well.

The commission members have had a chance to review tonight's agenda items.

Do any of the members have a conflict of interest as defined by section six of the commission bylaws with any of these items?

Yes, I do.

And which case is that, Mr.

McCool?

Case number 42-25.

Thank you very much.

And let me now ask city staff.

Um, has proper notification been provided for each of the agenda items?

It has.

Thank you very much.

Let's move on to our first application.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Commission.

Moving on to our first case tonight, HPC 4025.

Kim Roberts petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for a design change to a previously approved certificate of appropriateness and modifications to the driveway on the property located at 46 Sherwood Drive in the Sherwood Drive Historic District, Council District 4.

Here we have an aerial view of that property as well as where it's situated in its historic district.

Here's that subject property along with adjacent properties to the west and to the north.

The proposal includes changing the location of the previously approved bridge in Koi Pond.

Uh they'll be changing the layout of the previously approved stamped concrete pass as well as resurfacing the existing concrete driveway with stamped concrete.

They'll be adding an 8 by 15 flight of stamped concrete stairs leading up to the bridge, as well as a wooden bridge that is 8 by 15 and a half and is surfaced with natural stone.

The proposed KOI Pond is gonna be 8 by 21 feet and is surrounded by natural stone, and the stamped concrete pass are six feet wide.

Um much of this work was completed without HPC or staff approval, so this is coming to use as a uh violation.

So here's that subject property again.

Um this is the site plan that was initially approved back in April in HPC 2325, and this is the new site plan submitted by the applicant.

I'll put both of those up for you to compare.

And here we have some pictures of that project.

Here you can see the stamped concrete driveway and those stamped concrete stairs leading up to the bridge.

And here's some uh pictures that were provided by the applicant this afternoon.

Here's kind of an overview of the entire project.

You can see that bridge there and the driveway.

Um here's a close-up of the bridge and those stairs.

You can see the natural stone that's surfacing the bridge.

And here is a close-up of the Koi Pond.

You see the landscaping and natural stone surrounding it, and another kind of overview of that and some of that natural stone around there.

Moving on to materials, there'll be red stamp concrete driveway, steps and path, wood and natural stone for the bridge, and stone for the coi pond.

Applicable design guidelines for sidewalks, driveways, and landscaping and plant materials.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Can you show the uh previously approved application, the site plan and the modified one, please?

I think it might be useful just because we have some new commission members just to kind of show a couple of things that have changed if you don't mind.

Absolutely, yeah.

So on the top there is the previously approved plan.

Um you can see that the bridge has been moved to this location here.

Um let me just ask that bridge was not going over water, correct?

That was not initially going over water, it now is the applicant has moved the Koi Pond to be located underneath the bridge.

But it wasn't going over the initial.

Those are the major changes, as well as the addition of the stamp concrete driveway and the layout of those stamp concrete walkways has changed.

Do the commission members have any questions for Mr.

O'Leary?

Was the driveway in the original?

It was not part of the original.

No, it was not, but it was existing in the driveway was existing as concrete, it's been resurfaced with stamped red concrete now.

So where on the May one, where is where was the original driveway on the approved May?

Sure.

The uh the driveway was not part of the original approval.

This was added uh apart from HPC approval, but you can see here the driveway as it exists.

Right, and then it's been resurfaced with red stamp concrete.

There's a lot going on.

Does anybody have any other questions?

Thank you, Mr.

O'Leary.

Thank you.

Let me invite the applicant or the applicant's representative to step forward, please.

And if you don't mind stating your name and address for the record.

Kim Roberts, 46 Sherwood Drive, 35401.

Thank you for coming this evening, Ms.

Roberts.

So it's a lot of changes from what we was approved in May.

How did we get to this stage?

Well, I when I came in April and presented that plan, part of the presentation was that these were not going to be the actual locations of those items.

I stated that it would depend on the topography and tree location and roots.

So we've kept everything that we originally had stated at the April meeting, and we just shifted because of those very things that we were concerned about from the beginning.

And there's a hill in the front yard.

So we shifted it over to the right and put the pond in that location to avoid the trees.

And then the bridge, we uh could not put it.

We originally wanted it to go where you see that gray, well, in the original one, but we couldn't build the footings there because again we were hitting tree roots.

So it was at that time that we just decided we would shift it over and combine them together with the pond and the bridge as one unit.

And um I think that and then we took out the back uh walkway because again, that was we couldn't dig down to pour concrete because of the tree roots for the same reason we moved the pond.

Um then the driveway.

Right, and I apologize.

I didn't realize we would have to ask if we were just keeping everything the same.

We just thought we were just resurfacing, so we wanted it to match what we were doing with the pathways, and so we just did everything to be consistent.

And so I didn't realize we needed to come and ask that.

I thought that was only if we were going to enlarge the driveway or add other parts to it.

No, I think um you've come here a number of times, and you've been doing a lot of work on this property, and it's you're really enhancing it.

And so you know, uh I feel like we have a uh good relationship with you.

Yes, thank you.

At the end of every application, I always say, should anything change, please see city staff before you proceed.

You know, I think the idea of tree roots and modifying things was if you're laying the path and that route is in the way, you've got to shift it a couple of inches.

But this is a a redesign.

It's attractive, a lot of interesting elements here, but I just like to underscore in in the future when things change, just reach out to city staff and find out whether you need to.

In my defense, I thought when I presented it, and by saying, you know, this is all subject to change, basically.

I thought that was good enough, but I see now that it's it's so it's so much.

Yes.

And you know, and it's such a problem.

It's it's it's gonna be lovely in the photos we saw.

Our girls have already been just thrilled.

We're right, covered up with yes with move in for the university, and they're just stunned with the beauty.

So let's just make sure as we go forward we just stay in touch with with our.

I will hope in my lifetime this is the last of it because I we have been going through this for a year and a half between the pavilion and the side gardens, and now this, and so this is it for me.

Yes, they said there's been yeah, there's been a lot of anyway.

Is there anything that else you'd like the commission members to know?

And then I'll let them ask you some questions if you are ready.

No, we I just everything that was moved was to hopefully prevent damaging these old trees.

You know, this is a property that is 200 years old.

It used to sit on over 200 acres along the river, and so we have done everything.

We made, you know, uh everything we did on the side yard and the pavilion has always been to preserve our old trees that are there, you know.

And so that was our whole goal and why things shifted the way they did.

Do the commission members have any questions for Ms.

Roberts?

Um, and I just see that from the plan here, the new proposal with the bridge, you're going with that stone surfacing and not keeping it.

Right, it is a wooden bridge, but we did surface it then uh with the stone.

I just want to make sure that that was all clear and that we make a note of that.

Well, thank you.

You're welcome.

I hope all of you will come visit it.

It's really going to be lovely.

All right.

Um I will open the floor to public comment.

Is there anyone here to speak in support of or opposition to this application?

Having received no submitted public comment, let me close the floor to public comment and open the floor to discussion by commission members.

I think as we whenever we've seen some applications that have had some, it's come to us, we've approved it.

And then there's some changes made and it comes back to us.

What we have to do is look at that application, the new one on whether it's appropriate, and not so much on how much is changed from the original one.

We have to really look at it with a clean slate, and all the things that we look at.

Um appropriateness of materials, the appropriateness to the site, that sort of thing.

Yeah, when I first saw this come back through, uh I was surprised um and concerned about the the number of changes.

But it's it appears to me the design intent is similar to what was approved.

I don't think anything new and dramatic came came into the design.

Um I think it was it's just happens to be a lot of rearrangements, and that's that got my attention, but I think far as far as the design goes, it's it's pretty similar.

Any other questions, comments?

All right, hearing none.

Excuse me, I've got a little bit of a cough this evening.

We have a standing motion to approve HPC 4025.

Kim Roberts petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for design change to a previously approved certificate of appropriateness and modifications to the driveway on the property located at 46 Sherwood Drive in the Sherwood Drive Historic District, Council District 4.

We will vote.

Beginning on my right, Mr.

McCool.

I vote, yes.

Dr.

Yarbrough?

Yes.

I vote yes, Ms.

Stone.

Yes.

And Mr.

Shatdock.

Yes.

Ms.

Roberts, your application has been approved.

Good luck with your project.

And remember, should anything change, be sure to talk to city staff before you move forward.

And uh good luck with the project.

And let the record show that Dr.

Nelson has joined the hearing.

Moving on to our next case tonight, we've got HPC 4125 Starship Parton petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for a material change to the roof and windows and installation of shutters located on the primary structure located at 1003 Queen City Avenue in the Druid City Historic District, Council District 4.

Here we have an aerial view of that property as long as well as where it's situated in its historic district.

Here's that subject property, the adjacent property to the east and the adjacent property to the south.

The proposal includes replacing all the existing windows with vinyl clad wood windows, which will match the size and design of the existing windows.

They'll be replacing the existing siding with one by six woodlap siding, which will be painted white.

They'll be taking the existing shutters down, refurbishing them, and then reinstalling them painted black, and they'll be replacing the existing asphalt shingle roof with a gray synthetic slate roof, along with painting the front door red.

Here's that subject property again.

Here is it from uh Paul Bryant and the rear of the property and the other side of the property.

Here's some elevations that the applicant provided.

Um as you can see, the the design of the windows and the siding is not changing, and you can see that they've called out that the uh the new roof will be slate.

That's all four sides there.

The materials will include one by six woodlap siding, vinyl clad wood windows, a synthetic slate roof, and they'll be using the existing wood shutters.

Here's an example of what that slate will look like, the general color and design.

And this is a document provided by the applicant showing that the new windows will be the Anderson 400 series vinyl clad wood windows.

Moving on to applicable design guidelines.

Here are our standards for rehabilitation and alteration, repairing original features, replacing old features, roofs and their materials, windows and their materials, as well as shutters and their materials.

Any questions for staff?

Any questions?

Thank you, Mr.

O'Leary.

Let me invite the applicant or the applicant's representative to come on up to the podium.

We have a sample.

Well, I have a sample.

I'll get to that in just one second.

Thank you.

It's kind of a curveball, so I'll wait on that one.

Okay.

Well, we we like curve balls.

Um, if you could state your name and address for the record, please.

Um, Vance Ballard, um, the owner of B construction and uh 1201 Queen City.

Thank you.

So what would you like the commission to know about this project?

So uh thanks for the opportunity to speak.

Um I did a house about four years ago on the corner of Allica and Queen City.

Um the Italian villa with a red roof.

Um and so that was a great project.

Uh so very much buy into the whole historic nature of the community and understand that and value that, and so nothing that we want to do is is in opposition, nothing is in opposition to that.

Um we want to be very cooperative with with the rules.

So I went through that project.

We flying colors with all our inspections, so that project went off without a hitch.

The guy doing this house sort of saw my house.

He's an old friend of mine.

We went to a Tulsa went to school together down here, and he wanted to do one, and so we kind of helped him find one.

He found this one, which I know is very historically significant because of the location.

Everyone hears from me exactly where the house is.

So I'll quote him.

He said, I want it to be the third nicest house in Subclusive behind the university club and the president's mansion.

So his pocketbook and mindsets in the right place.

Uh I cannot brag on these people enough.

They're just wonderful people, they're gonna make a great addition to the community.

So that said, they chose me to do the project because I did mine and he liked the way mine turned out.

Um it's a complete gut remodel, top to finish, uh, top to bottom, no expense spare.

The house was in pretty rough condition.

Uh I welcome anybody to come by.

I'll give you my personal cell.

It is gutted to the studs right now.

I mean, and it's amazing to see what it was look like, you know, before fireplaces in every room.

Um it's gonna be a complete uh top uh electrical, everything will be new, plumbing everything.

There's some structural issues that going on that we're gonna repair as well.

Um to reiterate what he said, the the lap siding is just simply a one by six, so don't get freaked out by that word, it's just a piece of wood, nothing no change there, just kind of repairing what's there.

Windows are gonna go back in, like he said, historically accurate, gonna have them custom built to look the same.

So as a drive-by passer-by, you would see no difference.

The slate roof, um I would you know don't get freaked out, not that you would, but by the word synthetic, uh, that word when you think historic doesn't really mesh, but uh Bravo is a super high-end, uh very realistic representation.

Again, just the average eyeball is not gonna have the difference in it and and real slate, it's just a weight issue to not have to go and do a bunch of bracing.

Um the shutters, they're historically significant because they're original.

So instead of replacing them, which was the easy button, we're gonna grind them down and and keep the original ones.

Um what you what please, what questions do y'all have for me?

Um I'm I'm on the company, so I can feel like I can feel it anything yet.

I'm waiting for the curveball.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

So when I went to apply, we used a fiber X window, which I think is a no-no for you guys.

Um that's correct.

Yep.

But you guys approved a fiber X for 1201 Queen City.

And that's another conversation.

Okay.

Well, that's fine.

Yes, it it I well, I can't speak for everyone, but I think there was a little confusion what FiberX was, and so it is a vinyl with with the wood chips in it, and it's just it's a vinyl window, bottom line with that.

And that was sort of the Anderson 100.

Is that what you're thinking of?

So, yeah, and again, they're prepared, they don't want to argue by any means.

And so they'll they'll sort of submit by going with the 400, it's fine.

I just thought while I had the attention and the privilege of talking to you guys, I would just sort of make their argument on their behalf.

Oh, so is that the Anderson 100s?

So that's what I brought.

I brought that.

Uh I think uh of cellular PVC is something that you guys will consider.

Yes.

And so Anderson, and if you can look it up, you know, on it says FiberX is a trade name, that it's actually a cellular PVC.

So I'm just wondering, are we getting glitched up on on trade names here?

Well, and I'll I'll tell you, I did a lot of reading on Fibrex windows, the Anderson 100s, the Anderson 400s.

Yep.

And the 100s, and uh don't ask me to repeat all the chemical compositions of these things.

I wouldn't know I would know either.

At one time I sort of knew the difference between thermal plastic and thermal something else.

I don't right now.

The fiber's as that sort of the Anderson 100s, are it's a vinyl window.

I think it's 60% vinyl, 40% wood.

They say wood chip, so it's really like wood dust.

You know, in the right.

That's exactly right.

And that's just not okay.

Um can I hand you this?

Is that the just to speak directly to that?

But it specifically mentions it is an alternative to vinyl.

So if there's actually no vinyl in this, it's a PVC composite with the the wood dust.

Which which window is that?

This is the 100.

That's the 100.

The Anderson 100s.

Correct.

Because as far as I know, that and I would this was just last month when I was looking it up.

Um it was a vinyl with uh stuff in it.

But I'm happy to take a look.

Yeah, just I just yeah, because this is awesome.

Um because part of the problem with with the vinyl has to do also with what happens with the aging and everything else with these older um with with these homes, and you know, the windows are really sort of the soul of uh home and especially the historic.

And especially the house you're working on, it's so it's it has needed some TLC for a long time, yeah.

And you're doing such a great job.

Um yeah, I think when they're saying here a small smart alternative to vinyl, um it means like a pure vinyl, 100% vinyl.

But we don't I must say this too.

We don't there's three, I guess option one is is hard no, and option two is we'll think about it.

We don't necessarily have to have an answer on that tonight.

So if it if it's something you would even consider, then we can we've we've got some weeks before we order the windows.

Again, I re-emphasize they are prepared to go to the 400 if that just simply checks the box.

But I just wanted to present that for your consideration.

Sure.

No, I think it's awesome that you brought this.

Like we were just talking about having samples of things just you know right before the hearing started.

I don't see on here where it says PVC.

I just see it's an a smart alternative to vinyl.

Yeah, but they're meaning of a pure vinyl, 100% vinyl.

In that I can't I can't answer.

I will I'll just put this out to the commission members.

Y'all can, you know, you're all informed um on these sorts of things.

But I had read about this just you know last month, and I spent a lot of time digging in and looking specifically at the Anderson 100s, and then going into window websites and reading about thermoplastics and thermo, something else, poly whatever's um, and I was well convinced by what I read that the Anderson 100s are not appropriate, and I feel comfortable for me saying that.

You know, the other commission members um, you know, you can they can ask you questions, but that I I spent a couple of days just reading about windows and trying to get a uh grasp on what's out there because you know you're right, materials do change and things do change.

Um but this is such an important house.

And I agree, you know and the the the budget allows for the upgrade, so again, if it if it really is something that they're really invested in making this thing a showpiece, and so they didn't want to cause any ripples.

If it's just something that you're uncomfortable with, I can tell you that they'll surrender that and just jump to the 400.

I just wanted to present it just to see what your thoughts were.

I just historic district stuff, you know, we've got the design guidelines, we sort of draw the line.

Um does any I love that you brought this up.

There's a letter from last month about the 100s, and the guy ended up uh changing the window to aluminum clad wood when he came before us.

But the letter that was against the Anderson 100, these windows are essentially a vinyl extruded window that uses some fiberglass and calls itself a composite.

It's not a composite material that has the appearance and ability to mimic solid wood.

The original intent to allow composites was the ones on the market mimicked wood.

These Andersons do not, they mimic vinyl.

I believe these windows will be inappropriate.

Below is the cross section of the series 100 window from Anderson website.

You can see all parts of the window are extruded.

Right.

I think we just have to be careful.

We don't add too much from another um appropriateness.

Yeah, and this would stand in the future.

And I get I get that.

Yeah, and it doesn't my reading of it, it doesn't, it doesn't have fiberglass in it.

It's got wood fibers in it, right?

But I really like that you brought this in and you're making a case for us.

I like the detail that you're and the care you're putting into all aspects of the city.

Sure, it's I agree.

This is important to get it right.

And just to sort of um speak to your point about the uh synthetic slate, we don't have a problem with that.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, I was I hope you didn't.

That's a really nice.

It's actually more expensive than real slate, but we're not wow.

Well, we've and we've dealt with various um materials that mimic something else.

So I think that slate look is gonna be really great on that house.

I do too.

That's a good product.

I do too.

And so we don't have a problem typically with the design guidelines with that kind of thing.

Um, but I don't want to monopolize your time.

Let me um I got can I ask a couple more questions before we okay?

So just for our knowledge, there's that there the hedge around the house that that really kind of they feel like it's overgrown.

Is there an issue cutting that hedge down?

Is there a historical issue with that?

No, you could you could work with ice landscaping, we could approve as long as you're not removing healthy trees, then we could approve that.

And the dead one we've already said we can right.

Yeah, make sure you get an arborus letter for that one.

Oh get a w Arbus letter on the dead one?

That's right.

Okay.

Yeah.

Other questions?

Um the there's currently on this drawing and actually on the house, there's no handrail on the porch.

Now you know the porch is maybe only knee high, but being a builder, I know that's far enough to break your neck.

If we have to put a railing, don't need to ask you guys because it's not it's there's not one now, but I think the inspector's gonna make us put one.

Yes.

And so I'm asking ahead of time.

You would come back to us.

We would need to see the sp specifics of it, the specifications, the material, the height, the spacing of the rails, the you know, dimensions of the rails, all that kind of stuff.

Really easy matter, they can help you navigate all of that.

All right.

Um additionally, I'm not sure if you guys have seen the little gazebo kind of there in front.

I do not think that's original by any means.

I think that's can we just that guy?

That's uh coming back to us kind of thing.

I mean it's a cheapo, it's a it's not do we have a picture?

We don't have a picture of it, do we?

It's typically when we have an accessory structure on a property that is going to be removed.

It comes to us, but let me just confirm that.

There are different guidelines depending on the historic significance of the structure, but that's definitely something we can look at after the meeting just to see what approval process needs to be.

Because it could even be expedited review.

Correct.

Yeah.

Talk to city staff about that.

Okay, okay.

Um we've got the big things here that seem to be.

I think I think that's all I got.

Thank you.

It looks like you covered all the main bases on this one.

Other questions from Mr.

Ballard?

Go ahead.

Can we show a photo of the front of the house again?

Yes, sir.

The front I've watched through the years this house.

The neo neoclassical type columns that at the top aspect of them, some of them are the originals, and some have had to be modified to kind of door it over time.

And so now it's inconsistent across the front.

Is there a plan?

I mean, you gonna go with the Doric?

Are you gonna replicate the neoclassical capitals?

But at this point, it's hodgepodge.

It is.

Um, that's a great question.

So Bob Burns is the architect, and we second you said that I thought, gosh, I wish I had a good answer for this.

I I don't, I'm gonna I would refer to Bob, the architect who does historical houses.

Speaking for him, I can tell you whatever we do will absolutely be consistent and in line with what's there to replicate what's there and be historically accurate.

I've not discussed the column bases and the and the column tops yet, but um it will be representative of what would have been there originally, is what I can say.

Is it is that fair answer?

Is that okay to answer it like that?

I think I feel fair to say that originally would have been all neoclassical.

Well, and and you know, I'm not comfortable telling them that they need to do that unless I see sort of evidence of that.

Do you know what I mean?

It would take somebody with more knowledge than me.

I've just watched them as they've had to be modified over the yeah.

Yeah, over the years, typically as things that are expensive like that break down, people go back with the cheaper version, which these guys are not gonna do.

They're gonna go back with whatever is the correct.

So that was my question.

Yeah, that's a good question.

Thank you.

So that's if that is something that you guys are exploring, come back to us about changing the top of the college.

Assuming if we go back with with what's representative of the original, because there are a few originals left.

Assuming we go back with what was original.

Do we still need permission or do we if we if we change it, we need permission, correct?

And this is not gonna slow down your project at all.

This is just an observation.

Dr.

Nelson has really good knowledge of historic architecture in town.

Yes, okay.

Um so uh um it might be something just to think about, but you can still move forward.

It's just if you change that, think about what he has said, and then you would come back to us.

Okay.

Any other questions for us or any other comments?

We're gonna go ahead and the application.

The it it read like you were replacing all of the wood.

Um, I th well I think they were we're gonna go through in anything, sort of making a judgment call.

If it's saveable, we'll save it.

If it's if it's damaged or or barely hanging on, we're gonna replace it.

So the overlap is not changing.

No, it's still gonna be the same.

Correct.

We're gonna do duplicate that exact board, yes.

I I'm sorry, as I'm as y'all are talking, I'm thinking too.

Um copper chimney caps.

I don't think that would that could an issue, yes.

Let them know.

Okay.

It was on the plans.

I just didn't know.

I'm just asking things as I'm thinking about it.

They're kind of you're gonna do a little bit of a copper accent, like some copper gas lanterns on the front porches and that sort of thing.

Drawings, I missed that, and uh and it wasn't in the materials list.

It's not a big deal.

I just want to make sure we know we're the currently whatever caps up there were blown off, they're not there anymore, and so they were just gonna go back with copper to match their lighting.

I don't know what it would be how it's uh what are we looking at here?

That's that's something we could probably look at after the meeting to.

Um we can talk more about that.

Yeah, but that's okay.

That's it, that's all I'm gonna do.

Yeah, yeah.

Any other questions for Mr.

Ballard?

So the copper caps don't involve the brickwork itself at all.

No, sir.

It would just be uh right now, you know, it rains down into the chimney because it's just and so the you typically go back with one of those wagon wheel looking, you know, chimney caps or or of of the like, but whatever we went back with, my only question would you it needs a chimney cap is is would there be an issue with it being copper?

I I didn't think there would be, but no, that I don't think that would be an issue.

But just since we don't have it here for us to look at, just reach out to city staff once you get the idea of what you're gonna do.

Can do on the windows.

So are you proposing if we object to the Anderson 100s?

What are you proposing?

The Anderson 400s, which I think do fall within the guidelines, what I can tell.

Okay, how do the Anderson 400s because the only ones that are accepted on their accepted list are the monarch M Cell and the Herd H3.

How does the Anderson 400 relate to those two?

Um Starcher, do you remember what the 400s were I think it was the 400 gosh, I can't remember this moment.

Going over the list, the 100s was kind of like the you know, but the 400s was it aluminum, was it aluminum clad?

Is that what they were?

This one says the 400 series is rigid vinyl clad.

It's what which one up here it says 400 series rigid vinyl clad.

Okay, anderson 400 series is vinyl.

I think that I thought from conversations here that I thought those 400s fell within the guidelines.

And I I don't know.

Do y'all know?

I hadn't looked up the 400 last month.

I know that we have the commission has seen vinyl clad wood windows before that were made from Anderson.

Um I don't recall whether they were the 400 series, but this this is a material that the commission has seen before.

Because if you go back to the ones that are accepted monarch m-cell vinyl clad window, herd vinyl clad window are equal that mimics wood.

So I don't know if the 400 is that or not.

I know I was telling them the monarch is no longer available.

Right.

And the herd, I believe the vinyl is all inside.

It's the final parts inside the wood.

It's not even seen.

I I think where I'm getting this is my conversation with Anderson and their specific window rep who came out to look at the project, um, was telling me, and I guess I just took it for as as fact that their 400 series.

So I gave him this, and he said that their 400 series fell squarely in line, but their 100 series because of the fiber X name, he wasn't sure.

His argument was he felt like FiberX was a trade name and that it was a cellular PVC, but he didn't know if they would sign off on it.

It sounds like you know, you guys are not doing that.

Yeah, I'm trying to pull stuff up, but I'm not being very successful.

But I did look at the 400 series last month, and I thought it was I think I think it was a vinyl clad wood.

But I think it's a bottle clad wood.

You found it?

Yeah, yeah.

But it's but it's wood on the interior.

That's right.

That's right.

So it's not the 100%, it's not like full vinyl.

Um so that was okay.

Is it extruded like the one?

Well, it's it's clad on the wood.

The 100 isn't clad.

And that's what I remembered as well.

I I was afraid to say that, but that's what that's what I remember as well.

Right.

So you are looking at the if that's a no, that's fine.

I said we we can certainly jump to the 400, which we felt like was in line with what you guys would accept.

Just on the on the black and white letter of the one.

Okay, so we'll just make a note that uh in the application we're we're looking at the Anderson 400s, Vonoclad wood.

All right.

Other questions.

I just wanted to say I don't have a question.

Thank you for asking all your questions and trying to head this stuff off.

Um I'm not picking on Miss Roberts, who's not here, but to underscore, I think it's really important that everybody appreciate it's a lot better to come get permission first than backtrack.

So I appreciate your interest.

No, for sure.

They they've been great.

He's been great.

And so yeah, also I would just suggest you sit down with the whole project, and if there's anything else that needs to be addressed, come on back before you do it.

For sure.

Um thank you for your yeah, for sure, thank you.

Yeah, well, I I echo that.

Our staff is really great.

And uh any questions you have, just reach out to them whenever.

Thank you, and they'll be more than happy to help you.

Super responsive.

I can't I can't brag on that.

They're great, and it's so much easier and it's much more smoother process than um going with something that would not be correct and then having to redo it.

And I really underscore this.

If you guys are interested in historic houses, which I assume everyone here is, please come by and see the inside of this thing, and it's fascinating to look back in time.

I can only assume the house was started in 1898, you know, type thing.

So when it's good, this is a rare opportunity to see the the scribblings on the wall of some carpenter in the late 1800s writing in his different stuff.

It's just really neat, kind of a cool stuff to see in there.

Let me ask you this.

It has no bearing on this application, but you were talking about how you were doing the interior.

Are you preserving those fireplaces?

Absolutely.

Yeah, so every room in the house has a fireplace.

I was kidding around with her.

You know, now when you light a fire, you like to have a glass of wine with your wife, light a fire, they let it to survive.

Yeah, I mean it was heat, it was he was it was heat then, so that's why there's so there's an ungodly amount of fireplaces in this house.

And and mine, 10 houses down, was built a merely 25 years later, but during that 25 years, you know, we invented a little something called electricity, so we didn't have as many fireplaces.

Well, and document everything too.

Yeah, well, they're doing a coffee table book with like I've hired a photographer, Lance.

I think I can't think of his name, toss loss, but he's doing drone flybys in the front door, out the back, and video and the whole thing, like we're taking pictures, it's gonna be a book on the coffee table.

Especially the the interior too, as you sort of change things, take down walls.

Absolutely.

They are it's important.

I did on mine and it kind of showed them what we did, and they're they they're doing the same thing.

They're they're they're all into it.

I mean, they're excited about it.

Oh, we appreciate your enthusiasm for this project.

Are there any other questions for Mr.

Ballard?

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

If we have any other questions, we'll bring you forward.

Sure, you got you guys can keep that if you want to keep it for future things, or we can just chunk it.

Whatever, I just brought it for the city staff make that.

You want to keep it office to tell the next guy now?

Um but in the meantime, have a seat and um I'll open the floor to public comment.

We didn't receive any written comment.

Is there anyone here to speak in support of or opposition to this application?

Then let me close the floor to public comment and open the floor up to discussion by commission members.

All right, so you came in with an Anderson 100 window as a sample, but the application had the 400.

So what were you asking for?

So uh my question behind the scene with me when I talk and you know what?

Can you come up to the front if you don't mind?

So we felt confident that the 400 was in line.

And sort of pleading my case with Liam, I said, Well, I I think that the 100 is in line.

Um he said, Well, you know, you you can take it take plead your case and see.

And so I brought this in to show you guys for your consideration to see if that was acceptable.

I didn't feel like I needed to bring a 400 example because I thought that it it fell squarely in line with what you guys had.

That's only I didn't bring that.

I brought the one that I thought was questionable.

The 100 wasn't mentioned on the application.

I guess I'm not sure.

Right, right.

Right, because I I kind of had a pre-warning that it may not be appropriate, but I could I was told I could plead my case in front of you guys to see if you can certainly that's why I brought that for you to look at.

And then the applicant the application also mentioned tile.

Where is the tile?

That was in the applicant.

Was it the roof tile, like like the slate tile?

I think I think it said something about slate, root uh tile and metal.

Yeah, okay.

So I think originally the uh Bob Burns, who is uh does historic type renovation work specifically, had a standing seam copper metal standing seam accent on the roof.

Um because the the two little lanterns by the front door were gonna be gas, copper lighting, and then the chimney cap is gonna be gas, and it was gonna be copper, and they kind of want a little copper touch to the home.

Um, and he was gonna do a standing seam copper accent, but I think he deleted that in a later revision of his drawings.

So the standing seam is gone, and I believe the tile that you're referring to is this is the slate tile, which bravo.

I think we've turned in the material for the slate tile, it's a it's it's a it's a synthetic, correct.

It's a synthetic slate.

Yeah, because if you if we go back to Mr.

O'Leary's presentation, it mentioned the roof was going to be they had discussion and the roof was going to be totally this.

Um I guess when you know we get these applications and they say one thing, but then the applicant is saying, well, like either things are missing or changed, or asking to change.

I guess I'm just a little like commission.

Would you be voting on it?

If I could clarify our process a little bit, that application is the first point of contact that we have with the applicant.

Between that application and when they appear before you today, there's a lot of communication.

We don't ask them to fill out the application again.

We we do the staff report and the presentation, and that's the most accurate information we have at the time.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

O'Leary.

All right, so I think we're done.

Okay.

Have a seat.

Thank you.

And we are continuing our discussion with the commission on this application.

What are we doing the 400 window or the yes?

The 400 window is what is in the application.

That is what we're doing with the full slate roof.

Um, would being replaced with the one by sixes to match the profile of the existing, where the um where needed, and have I missed anything else?

Because that was basically what you had presented.

So hearing no discussion, I take that as a standing motion to approve.

Ready to go.

Um HPC 4125, Starship Harton petitions for certificate of appropriateness for material change to the roof and windows and installation of shutters located on the property structure located at 1003 Queen City Avenue in the Druid City Historic District.

Council District 4.

We shall vote, Dr.

Nelson.

Yes.

Ms.

Shattock.

Yes.

Ms.

Stone.

Yes.

I vote yes, Dr.

Yarbrough.

Yes.

And Mr.

McCool.

Yes.

Mr.

Ballard, the application has been approved this evening.

There are still a number of moving parts that you're thinking about.

So as you move forward, first of all, should anything change from what we've approved tonight, please talk to city staff.

And for some of these other elements that you want to know about, talk to city staff and they can guide you on how to proceed on those things.

Good luck with your project.

It's a great home, and we're very happy that it's getting some TLC.

Thank you very much.

And moving on to our next case, let the record show that Mr.

McCool is leaving the uh hearing for the moment.

Here we have an aerial view of that property, as well as where it's situated in its historic district.

Here's that subject property and the adjacent northern property and the adjacent western property.

Proposal includes removing the existing chain link fence and constructing a new eight-foot-tall wooden shadow box fence in its place.

Um provided by the applicant.

Here's a rendering of what that proposed fence will look like, along with an example of it in real life.

Here we have some elevations of the fence provided by the applicant.

Here's a picture of where it will connect.

It'll go along that and connect to where the existing one is.

They'll be removing that chain link fence.

Right there.

Materials are treasure pressure treated pine.

Your applicable design guidelines for fences and walls and their appropriate materials.

Do you have any questions for staff?

There isn't an issue with an eight-foot height.

That will require a building permit, but it does meet the zoning ordinance.

Any questions for Mr.

O'Leary?

Thank you.

Thanks.

Let me invite the applicant to step forward, please.

And if you could state your name and address for the record, we'd appreciate it.

Good evening.

My name is James McCool.

My address is 15 Audubon Place, Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35401.

What else would you like the commission to know about your project, Mr.

McCool?

Yeah, so just to give a little background, we purchased 15 Audubon roughly a year and a half ago from the Smith family, and the Smith family owned both 14 and 15, where the fence separates those two properties.

So essentially we're replacing the chain link fence and keeping its current footprint and just replacing it with the wooden fence.

So just kind of wanted to paint that picture.

Are there questions for Mr.

McCool?

Well, thank you.

We have no further questions at this time.

Thank you.

There have been no public comment submitted.

Is there anyone here to speak in support of or opposition to the application?

Then let me close the floor to public comment and open the floor to discussion by the commission members.

And if Mr.

Leary, if you don't mind, why don't we put up that rendering of the fence while we're talking about this?

I'm having Mr.

McCool step out of the room.

Well, I thought y'all have to do that.

We're not done.

Give us a minute.

All right.

Any comments?

Any questions?

How high is the gate compared to the fence?

Because it eight feet.

Come on up, Mr.

McCool.

So to speak to it, all of it's going to be eight feet, and all of it's going to be the same material.

Um I know that that drawing, obviously, the fence looks smaller.

I was just that was the best I could produce with the software that I had.

Um, but it will all be eight feet and all be that material.

So it's eight feet what's the gate right now.

And it continues over.

Yeah, I just was trying to, I don't know which one was eight and which one is thank you.

Any further comments, discussion by commission members.

Hearing none, we have a standing motion to approve HPC 4225.

James McCool petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for the construction of a fence in the rear yard located at 15 Audubon Place in the excuse me in the Audubon Place Historic District, Council District 4.

Let us vote.

Dr.

Yarborough.

Yes.

I vote yes, Ms.

Stone.

Yes.

Mr.

Shatdock.

Yes.

And Dr.

Nelson.

Yes.

Mr.

McCool, your application has been approved this evening.

Should anything change, please see city staff before you proceed.

Good luck with the project.

And you can tell the other Mr.

McCool he may come back in.

And let the record show that Mr.

McCool has rejoined the hearing.

Moving on to our final case tonight.

We have HPC 4325.

Scott Seawright petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for a material change to the existing porch located at 1914 7th Street in the Druid City Historic District Council District 4.

Here we have an aerial of that property.

As well as where as well as where it's situated in its historic district.

Along with the adjacent western property, property to the east, and the properties to the south across the street.

The proposal includes removing the existing wooden porch material and replacing it with cellular PVC planks.

The new porch material will mimic wood and it will be painted in a similar color as the existing wood.

Here's what the porch looks like today.

And here are some examples of what the uh new material will look like.

Material will be cellular PVC porch boards.

Here we have a stat um stat sheet showing that the new material will be the AZEC decking deck and porch board.

We have applicable design guidelines for decks and porches.

Do you have any questions for staff?

I think the questions that I have are going to be more for the applicant.

Does anybody else have any questions?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Leary.

Let me invite the applicant, the applicant's representative to come on up.

And if you could please state your name and address for the record.

So I've got uh I've got one question for you.

Um in the application, it states that you're gonna use this the PVC boards.

I have no problem with that.

I think that's a good way to go with those porches, but that you're gonna paint it.

We don't deal with color, so you don't have to worry about us so much with that.

But my question for you is I think these boards, do they not come in colors?

These are already pre-painted that we will not be painting.

Okay, I just want to make sure that's that is the actual color.

What we have now is a bluish gray.

That is it's it's very close.

I mean, it is the close of the color.

It's you know, so it's it is not a painted, it is all built into the PVC.

Right.

So it is it is not painted.

Yeah, it's an embedded color.

It was I matched it the closest, which was really close to that's great.

I just want to clarify because I can't imagine putting paint on top of that material and then having it stay.

So I just wanted I just want to clarify that.

Um did anybody does anybody else have any questions for this?

We've approved this kind of material before on several porches.

I think it's I think it's a smart move.

Um, if I can say just one thing, I think just you know we replaced that in 2020.

So we we replaced that in 2020, is what it looks like now.

But and I actually own a building supply, so I bought the very best wood from Great Southern.

It's double heat treated to you know to it, it's it's the best that's available in today's wood, which I'll tell you is jump compared to what we used to get.

So with the thing the change that's been made, the wood has grown so much faster, so it's not as dense and strong, so it's just after three years.

I mean, we're five years now, but after three years, it was already looking bad.

So I've got to researching and literally this material I think was for this exact purpose for people that's having the same problem.

It's the exact dimension, tongue and groove, the wood look, so it's it's you know, that's the reason.

I just like I don't want to have to do this every three or four years.

It's yeah, we're we're seeing a lot of that, and you're absolutely right about the the wood, the growth rings are so far apart now that the wood doesn't have the same integrity.

Yes, ma'am.

So I absolutely understood.

Um do we have any other questions, Mr.

Seawright?

Commission for the record, we did receive one public comment in support.

Yes, but I haven't gotten to public comment yet.

Right.

But thank you.

Any other comments?

Very straightforward.

No, ma'am.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, so we did receive one public comment in support of this project.

Is there anyone here to speak in support of or opposition to the application?

Then let me close the floor to public comment and open the floor to discussion by the commission members.

Again, very straightforward.

It's kind of thing we've approved in the past.

Very obvious need to replace that porch.

Hearing no comments, we have a standing motion to approve HBC 4325.

Scott C.

Wright petitions for a certificate of appropriateness for a material change to the existing porch located at 1914 7th Street in the Druid City Historic District, Council District 4 voting.

Dr.

Nelson.

Yes.

Uh Mr.

Shattuck?

Yes.

Ms.

Stone.

Yes.

I vote yes, Ms.

Dr.

Yarbrough?

Yes.

And Mr.

McCool.

Yes.

Thank you.

Mr.

C.

Wright, your application has been approved.

Should anything change, please see city staff before you move forward.

Good luck with the project.

Um, it's a great, it's a great structure, great home.

Um, and we wish you well.

Moving on to other business, we've had 15 expedited review approvals since the previous HPC meeting.

Thank you very much.

And with that, we adjoin uh adjourn this hearing.