Good evening and welcome to the August 18, 2025 meeting of the City of Tuscos of Planning and Zoning Commission.

Any written comments sent to staff or forwarded to the commission directly.

At this time, I'd like to introduce our staff.

We have Mr.

Jimbo Woodson, Deputy City Attorney.

Michael Garner, City Engineer, Zach Pons, Director of Planning.

Leota Coyne, Principal Planner.

There are nine members of the Planning Commission, all of whom are appointed by the mayor for staggered terms, with the exception of the City Council representative who is appointed by the City Council.

I ask Commission members introduce themselves and state their occupation for the record.

Mr.

Rumsey.

Stephen Rumsey, Business Owner.

Dina Prince, attorney.

Portia Clark, 311 manager.

Vince Dooley, UA Capus Planning.

Anne Hornsby, attorney.

Raven Howard, Councilwoman.

Andy Pugh, retired.

Bill Wright Business Owner.

There were sign-up sheets located outside for public comment.

Four speakers are allowed to speak in favor of a petition and four speakers are allowed to speak in opposition of a petition.

All speakers will be having a maximum of five minutes unless the commission votes to allow a longer time.

The commission will initially receive a presentation from the staff as to the details of the agenda item.

Additionally, we may hear certain matters involving the same property, such as an annexation and a zoning matter concurrently, although we will take separate votes on each matter involving the same property.

After the staff presentation, we'll then call upon the petitioner to present their case.

The petition will have a maximum of 10 minutes unless the commission votes to allow a longer time.

At the conclusion of the petitioner's remarks, we'll then call upon any party in order of sign-up who desires to support the petition.

Thereafter, call on anybody who wishes to oppose the petition.

When it's your turn for comment, please introduce yourself, stating your name and address to the commission to provide your remarks and do that at the microphone, please.

Again, any written comments have been included into the record.

After receiving the remarks of those who oppose the petition, the petitioner will have the opportunity to respond to those objections.

Any rebuttal will be limited to two minutes unless the commission votes to allow a longer time.

If the petitioner presents any new information in response to your objections, the commission will allow those who oppose the petition the opportunity to respond to the new information only.

Any response will be limited to two minutes unless the commission votes to allow a longer time.

During the course of this presentation, you may be interrupted by any member of the commission for clarification or additional information.

Such interruptions will not reduce your time.

Once the commission members are satisfied, they have received all relevant information.

We'll then close further discussion by the public, at which time the commission members will discuss the matter and then vote.

After the vote, you are free to leave.

This commission serves as the final authority.

Subdivisions located within the city limits, subdivisions located outside the city limits, but within the city's planning jurisdiction, developments with special district, and four approval letters for developments in historic district buffer zones.

As to all remaining agenda matters, including annexations, rezonings, planned developments, and street vacations.

This commission serves as a recommending body to the city council.

In that regard, our decisions in the are in the form of a recommendation to be presented to the city council.

The city council will make the final decision on those matters.

Subdivision approval requires the affirmative vote of six members of the planning commission.

All matters which are recommendations, city council require majority vote for an affirmative recommendation.

Do any members of the commission have any conflicts of interest as to any agenda matters before us tonight?

If so, please state for the record.

Having heard none, I would ask staff to confirm on the record that the proper notice has been given to all parties and interests as required by law as to all matters before the commission tonight.

It has.

Okay.

With that, we will begin with approval of the minutes.

As the planning and zoning commission has received the synopsis of the July 2025 meeting, I move that we dispense with the reading of those minutes of the same unless there are any deletions, additions, or corrections.

All those in favor approval of the July 2025 meeting say aye.

Aye aye.

Those opposed, ayes have it.

Good evening, Commission.

Starting off tonight with the consent agenda.

We have four items here.

Uh to clarify on S8125.

This is for eight condominium units.

That was clarified after the legal notice was published.

We did not have anyone sign up out front.

Uh do you need anything from staff?

I'm sorry, I was trying my screen was off.

Oh goodness, I'm sorry.

I was clarifying.

Yeah, this is a consent agenda on S8125.

It's actually for eight condominium units.

Um that was clarified after the legal notice was published.

We did not have anyone sign up out front.

Okay.

So commission, we have a consent agenda listing of Z S 7125, S7525, S8125, S8225.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, eyes have it.

All right.

Moving into our cases requesting to continue.

We have one tonight that is S 7625.

Um, they're working with the county on a variance before coming before you all.

Um, I believe they are here if you'd like to have them come up.

Please, petitioner.

Good evening, Jamie Altre, 3531, 18th Avenue Northeast.

And there's a waiver that we're waiting on from the county, which should be voted on in the next week or so.

So we'll be back next month with this item.

Any questions for the petitioner?

Mr.

Forwards have a continuous request of S 7625.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, ayes have it.

All right, moving into unfinished business.

We have a companion case resurvey of lot one, MI Harper No.

Two.

You all saw this last month is a rezoning from SFR1 to MR1 at 2100 and 2102 Fifth Avenue East, as long as a subdivision of 0.84 acres into five lots.

You can see we are just west of Snow Hinton Park near Midtown Village.

You can see that property today has two existing homes who are just north of that roundabout on Fifth Avenue East.

And you can see they're zoned SFR1.

They touch SFR3 to the north and southeast, as well as MFR on the other sides of the property.

They'd like to rezone from SFR1 to MR1 to allow for more dense housing.

Um you can see that property today, uh, those existing structures on there, um, as well as 21st Street East.

Here is that uh subdivision.

You can see those five lots here.

Um that was last month's submission.

Let me clarify.

Um moving into this month's you can see those changes.

Um they're proposing sidewalk to be built during the construction phase.

They will be requesting a variance from that tonight, as well as widening 21st Street East to uh 20 feet in width.

Here is that revised site plan.

You can see a wood fence to the north, as well as that parking proposed at the rear of the buildings and that access from 21st Street East.

Um, here's just a sample of the images that were in the packet.

So we have two front elevations, a side, a rear, um, some renderings of what those could look like, moving to the rear inside, and again, more were in the packet.

And here's three um houses nearby.

I'm just kind of showing you a sample in terms of framework.

Uh, this area is identified as traditional neighborhood edge.

Um, this plan does conform as well as the use.

They both conform to framework.

You can see that identified here, that traditional neighborhood edge.

Uh moving into our permitted uses.

You can see those highlighted for MR1 here and moving into this slide.

Uh, we did receive two public comments before you last month, and you've received one additional this month.

Moving into the subdivision here, getting ahead of myself a bit.

You can see again that property, two existing homes to be removed to create those five lots.

You can see here uh without contours as well, and that revised site plan.

Uh, do you have any questions for staff on this one?

No ma'am, thank you.

Petitioner.

Well, engineering on the sidewalk variance request.

So we can we can weigh the sidewalk variants for the approval of the plat tonight before they record the plat, they'll have to post a bond for those public improvements.

Um, and then with the with the first building permit, that'll trigger them to install that sidewalk.

So I'm sorry, he said that would trigger what the sidewalk is the sidewalk.

That's more of a delay as well.

Is it by a lot or it would be for the entire sidewalk?

It needs it needs to be for the entire sidewalk.

I know we talked about that.

I mean, we're you know, the the subdivision regulations really state that the sidewalk should be put in in advance of plating the lots, but we've kind of set a precedent on a few others here in the past year or so where we allow them to bond that sidewalk, record the plat, but then put the sidewalk in when the construction activity begins.

Thank you.

Chris Centel, Centel Engineering Tusclose, Alabama.

Um the staff did a really good job uh with answering with the presenting it.

Uh we we added the wood fences requested to show we're setting a barrier to the to the west.

Um I think the comments that we had were parking, and they would the the comment said two parking spaces, but we're at we're those are 10 foot spaces and we can go up to 40 feet, which if you did eight foot spaces, that's five.

So we we're we're providing plenty of parking for three and four bedroom unit.

Um as far as the sidewalks go, I mean I I agree with the city.

If the city wants them put in at the beginning, I mean we're just trying to preserve the integrity of the sidewalk, and so during construction.

So if we can and these are custom homes, we're not planning on building all five of them at one time.

So and somebody's already contacted us that was here last time, but it was it's interested in purchasing one of them.

So in the previous meeting, we also discussed the 21st Avenue East section of the road because it's such a narrow road.

That's why we continued the first time uh one of the continued items was I had to check with the developer, and he was have texted him and said we need to widen 21st, and we do.

So it's it's really too narrow.

Engineering and staff, are you okay with that improvement?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, we're good with that.

Any questions?

Can you back up the slide to show we're taking one lot, one current lot, that lot right there.

Okay, and they're going to I was trying to figure out the front of the houses will be on Fifth Avenue.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, I see now.

And we're parking to the rear, and at the city's request, one driveway.

Right.

Thanks.

So three it's a three-bedroom house.

Three I have done four bedroom houses too, but I think three bedroom is was what people other people were interested in.

We'll back up the uh drawing with the number of parking spaces behind each lot.

I show if you see the the part the two to the farthest south.

I'm showing four parking spaces just in case if you want a four-bedroom.

But since they're custom, we don't really know.

I mean, if somebody comes to us and wants to build a three-bedroom house, then lot this call the corner of fifth and twenty-first uh lot.

So lot one wants to build a four-bedroom there, I have to do that.

There's enough room for four four parking spaces.

That's the concern I would have if you gotta assume that let's just assume there are student properties.

I mean you got to because where it is.

Yeah, and you got four bedrooms, you're gonna have four cars.

Yeah.

If it's four bedrooms, we've we have to provide four parts.

So you're gonna put so no matter what, you're gonna put if it's a four-bedroom, you're gonna put four on each lot.

Yeah.

So you're just losing landscape area.

Losing landscape along the sides where we're parking, but everywhere else is green.

Okay.

So Chris, what on assuming that the house on uh 21st Street is lot number one, for instance.

When they pull in there and they they block that whole driveway, and lot number five can't get out.

We're we're gonna just have a fist fight out there, or what's gonna happen?

No, no fist fights.

Is that just gonna have to be that just gonna have to work together?

Well, it's gonna have to be set up as a homeowners association anyway, because we're gonna have a shared joint drive.

So that would that would need to be addressed in the homeowner association by block drives.

Chris, just out of curiosity.

Uh does it hurt you to put the four there so you'd be covered if if uh four park space provide for four?

We can and we we can set that up.

That's no big deal.

Okay, yeah.

Because it's not like you gaining a lot of landscape no you're correct, and and we can do the Ford wide at the time permit if that's what the city requests.

He's asking them uh if we can go ahead and just go ahead and just provide 40 foot width on the on the parking pad.

Well, we don't have a problem with that.

I don't have a problem with that either.

I mean, it just covers you in the future.

You don't have to worry about you did the more narrow parking spaces?

So there are individual lots, individual houses they would individual lots, individual houses.

So then you're gonna have five garbage cans.

Not gonna do a dumpster.

No, no dumpster.

So on the so don't we have landscaping requirements between houses like this?

I mean, do they just go out the window with that or what?

I mean, what I mean, look, I it actually helps these houses to do what you're talking about, because when they have guests over, then you're gonna have more parking lights.

Vincent's talking about.

But it I remember painstakingly rentals making sure there was a tree between every one of them.

I just had to see a tree yet.

Did that get missed, or is that we're not required?

Is that not required on one this size?

So this is strictly just conceptual.

Um, but yeah, we would like we don't even know if this could be technically constructed the way that he has it here.

It's just the layout of the lots that you guys are looking at, and then they're gonna have to come back and submit building permits and and really because you know they they don't even there's no identifying uh the side or rear setbacks, necessarily the distances and things like that, so it's hard to tell on this.

I I doubt very seriously there's gonna be a lot of landscaping done on that back property line against that one house with a six foot venture.

We're showing a row of landscaping trees along that.

Well, you know, we're gonna have another case not as very similar.

You got you have one house there, the house that's there currently, and they're gonna have five different neighborhoods backed up to them.

You know, my my issue with the one by the towns a couple months ago was a lot.

If I'm that owner there, I don't wanna see five different property owners in five different things on their back property line.

That's not just discussion, but it's gonna talk about and think about going forward.

But isn't this a lot?

Isn't this probably that's in your HOA documents?

Um as far as landscaping, I mean we we want it to look nice.

This is not something you don't want, you don't want it to be run down right from the start.

I just I also worry about the but you're gonna have your garbage pickup, I guess on 21st.

That's that's correct.

So you're gonna have five garbage cans out there on 21st, and that if there's not really tight HOA, then you know we see this a lot where you'll have garbage cans sitting out there for days on end.

We we we will address that with HOA for sure.

I mean we don't want to.

See what you're trying to do.

You're gonna you're able to get two front streets, that's why you can do this on Fifth Avenue being your front street.

I mean, it's it's like a pretty nice little neighborhood there.

We're gonna plop this right in the middle of it.

It's a it's it's a lot.

Chris, I got a question.

Any more questions for Mike's guy?

How are you gonna regulate the order in which these are sold?

I mean, if the middle lot sells first, then somebody's gonna build the driveway.

The driveway's gonna have to be constructed first with with the way the driveway is gonna have to be constructed first.

Do you plan to build the entire driveway at one time?

Well, yeah, that was part of the rundown that we were when we said this.

If we're gonna do individual lot sales, then it will have to be done first.

You would not build the parking spaces for the driveways or something.

You put the driveway in, and then as they built the units, then you would add the parking to it, and that's the only way it can be done.

Buffer is, yeah.

Any more questions for petitioner?

I think we do have someone sign up, might come back and see us.

Yes, Mr.

Chairman.

We have uh Linda Parsons.

Good evening.

I'm Linda Parsons to Forest Lake Drive, and I'm here representing the Forest Lake Neighborhood Association.

Um, and my comments as last time are not gonna really uh deal with the aesthetic of the property or the garbage carts or things of that nature.

My concerns, as I mentioned last time, are the process.

So quick reminder, I won't delve into all of the details, but from 2019 until last December, we invited the entire community out here to talk about how zoning should work to get some certainty.

And uh Mr.

Wright just brought up the house that's right behind this.

That house thought they had certainty on what could be next door to them if they indeed participated in the process.

The current owner had this property during that time and could have participated uh in that as well.

You all during that very long process listened to all the viewpoints and the conversations that we had were respectful, thoughtful, and serious.

As a community, we together agreed on what was best for our neighborhoods.

Um compromises were necessary during that time, but everyone had a chance to be heard, and now every property owner and knows what they can do with their property and what can happen around them.

My only concern is that the petitioner did not make that case at the time, and this is not a hardship case, this is a preference.

Um I don't know how you justify making changes to the zoning so quickly uh after we made the decision.

And I don't um know what kind of message it sends to those who had input into that process.

Um further, my concern, as I mentioned last time, is that if you approve this rezoning, you've opened a door for every property in town.

If one person can successfully request new zoning, um, then I think refusing the next request becomes difficult for you guys.

In my experience in my neighborhood, petitioners often refer to prior cases to support their own request.

So you will have people directly refer to this case to validate their own similar rezoning request, or to even contest a decision if you say no.

And it's for these reasons that my neighbors and I ask that you uh deny this rezoning.

Yes, petitioner, you have any you have a chance to rebuttal anything you might have heard or um the only response I have is is when the city staff we we conform to the city uh standard, we're not creating a new zone, we're using what the city's offering as far as next residential one.

So yeah, I think I can provide a little bit of clarity on uh Ms.

Parsons' comments.

So you know, we have the framework, you know, character map, and that shows what could be on this property.

Um and again, as we went through that process, you know, traditional neighborhood edge doesn't exactly relate to what this zoning district is currently, it's one of a few different zoning types that could be on this property.

And so when we say if you go to the um it does conform to framework thing, when we look at this, um you see zoning requests does conform to the plan, so the the rezoning request does conform with traditional neighborhood edge in the sense of what you see here, yeah, small lot attached to multifamily dwellings, having a single family scale, that could be appropriate for this lot, or it could not be appropriate for this lot, you know, in the sense of the rezoning to get more density.

So to Mr.

Wright's point, you've got single family homes, you know.

However, it could have been more dense in this traditional neighborhood edge framework, um identifying uh character type, but because they were single family homes, this one went to that zoning designation.

I'm not sure if that clarified a little bit, but yeah, we we we did not want multifamily, we did not want apartments, which is across the street and to the south.

We want single family homes, single family residential lots.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone care to speak for or against this petition request?

All right, we'll close discussion.

Um I think just because it could be.

My question is should it be?

I mean, this I understand what it could possibly be in this changing zonings and um are there requests.

I feel like this is really sticking up brown hole and square peg.

That really seemed to fit very well there.

Um I just feel like this is the neighborhood.

Appears to be a solid neighborhood, a good neighborhood.

It's got apartments behind, I get it.

Not on one of them here to oppose it.

Again, not a one person here to oppose it.

No, which is little, which is a little surprising, really rising.

Usually usually somebody opposes whether the sun's gonna come on tomorrow.

Um I just don't know if that I understand that you can you can you can ask for it again as it make it right and make it appropriate for this area.

I hate to see things opened up and we're doing projects like this all across town.

But they are trying to rezone it from S get all these things confused.

S F Residential MR.

Residential.

All right, when you put the zoning map up, is the yellow can we go to the zoning R1 or is it another distinction, Leo?

Okay, no, the the darker, I'm sorry.

Okay, that's is M F R different from MR1.

Like what if we did rezone this, would it be that kind of orangey color or a different color?

Different color.

I mean, what what color would it be?

What's what's MR1 color right now?

So it is kind of in this palette of rust yellow.

Yeah, but in terms of the use, MFR is multi-family residential.

What they're asking to rezone to is mixed residential, so there's more options.

I'll pull up the table here so you can kind of see the permitted uses to get some clarity.

So that M stands for mixed, not multi.

That's correct.

All right, that's what's what I'm saying.

Again, they're just taking they're taking the neighbor not show.

They're taking the ability to have two streets, and that yeah, this street gives them the opportunity to do this.

Yeah that that was a house lot next door, they couldn't do it, obviously.

But I mean, and I know it's called single family, and I mean I I shouldn't make this assumption, but if you're gonna have four bedrooms in some of them, I'm thinking students are gonna live there, and that opens not critical of students, but the garbage cart issue, not it not just the garbage cart issue, but the overflowing garbage cart issue.

Some of them just leave them out on the street, they never bring them in, they just keep dumping.

I don't know that students live here.

Okay, it's not it's not a no-brainer, I can tell you that.

It's that's more line.

I mean, entering college freshmen is trending down.

The number of housing units closer to campus is trended up, so you're you're you're having a lot harder time getting students, particularly in new construction.

This won't be cheap because there'll be new construction to go here and pay top dollar.

This is and to build a house.

This is more likely to be uh workplace workforce housing.

My opinion.

Any uh other thoughts from commission or questions of the staff y'all might have?

I'll just say um this is in my district, so I want us to do what's in the best keeping to maintain the current integrity of the neighborhood.

However, I do like the improvements that this development would bring, but I'm also concerned about the garbage carts.

You know, if this is student housing, this is a problem that we've had um throughout this area already, and I've had more dumpsters to come in, so that affecting the aesthetics of what's going on here is concerning.

So I point is I'm I'm torn, I'm deeply torn.

This is definitely a hard one because I can I know the need for workforce housing, but I also want to make sure that we're not creating a problem on top of other issues that I'm trying hard to maintain and control.

I have an issue with I wish it was like three units instead of five.

Uh I don't even like to bring my garbage cart from the front of my house to the curve, and this one down all the way down at the end.

I know they're not gonna get theirs every week.

And it's kind of it's kind of it's not dense, but it's dense.

And when I look at the houses across the street and behind it, it's it looks like a traditional top neighborhood.

And when I look at everything going into the neighborhood, I don't I don't know.

It just looks like I wished it wasn't as many units that way.

You have extra parking when you have visitors, mom and dad, or a neighbor, somebody came by to see you.

Anyone else do we have dimensions for the lots?

50 feet.

50 by 133.

I just I just want to go on record saying that I think five is a lot to put here.

I agree with you, Mr.

Pugh.

Five is a lot to put there.

It'd be different if it was three, maybe even four, but five is it just seems I thought you could get it.

I don't remember both.

I wouldn't have as far enough to hire anybody.

And I also think that it's still our responsibility to make a good decision even though the neighbors didn't show up.

We can't just assume that that means that they are nonchalant about this.

It's hard to really borrow metal sign that says there's going to be a rezoning.

It's hard, it's hard to it's hard to ignore an eight-foot tall metal sign that you pass by every day that says this property is in the process of being rezoned, and there's a hearing on a certain date.

I mean it it is it is probably majority rental property all the way around it.

I mean, I know that I know that I own some property in the area.

I I know that if you look if you look at go back to the other slide, Leo.

You look to the I guess it's to the south, there looks to be about a hundred and something units bordering it's south the south border, and you know, while they've been trying to improve that uh they've the the owners of that apartment complex have worked to try to improve that and have is still what it is.

Um but from this area, this looks like an all-American Aussie inherited neighborhood.

I mean um putting five houses on this corner will materially affect this entire street.

There's no question about it.

Zach, who got notice?

And I see across does a street then you you don't go across the street to give somebody notice, or do you?

So with a rezoning, it's within 500 feet of the property, regardless of the street.

Okay, but that's an apartment complex, so I guess the owner of the apartment complex would have gotten that notice across the street, and then the property to the west and to the north, yeah.

Um would have gotten mailed notice, correct?

That's correct.

How many houses down would like three of those houses?

I don't know how wide those lots are, but three of the houses to the west, and maybe three to the north.

It was about from what Mike she she stuffed all of those envelopes.

She said there was about 200 mailings for this one alone.

200 we do send out a lot of mailings.

And that could be the 500 feet.

We sent 200 on this.

Well, we had to also send the umdivision, which would only be adjacent properties.

All I'll dig in a little bit on that.

That seems high, but either way, within 500 feet of this property, and it's a pretty dense in this area.

They a lot of words for saying that these people did get notified that this was happening.

Um we do send them out two weeks in advance of the meeting.

You know, this may not be uh legitimate consideration, but I do worry about the precedent we set, and tonight we did have Ms.

Parsons from Forest Lake, and but none of the people directly adjacent to the property, but two months from now, three months from now, we may have a similar piece of property, and we might have 20 people show up to oppose it, and the petitioner will remind us that we approved a similar piece of property with a similar rezoning request.

And the petitioner will remind us that we approved a similar piece of property with a similar rezoning request.

And I don't know if that's something we necessarily have to or should consider, but I just don't want us to hem ourselves in.

If there's a if there's a similar piece of property that may even have more I don't think in I don't think in planning and zoning issues, you have precedent because every property is uniquely different.

I don't, I mean, I don't I don't think we ever have to listen to someone say you did this for them.

You know, I I have mixed emotions.

I look to the south, and you know, it's very high density to the south.

I look to the east, it's very high density apartment complex to the east.

Um, you know, it's uh you know, to the north what the my if I have a problem with it, it's it's it's more that we're gonna take a lot in a subdivision that clearly when it was built, you know, there was no there's no way you could tell that that only the corner lot could be redeveloped and and five houses put on it uniquely.

And so we're gonna change, we're gonna change the personality of this of this neighborhood, and I'm not sure that it'll be it'll be for the better.

On the one hand, new construction is a lot, and so you'll have new construction and new houses and and and reinvestment in an area that could spur up, but I don't know where you can go after that.

Do you go across the street on the next corner?

Or because those are the only two lots you can do that on, right?

I mean, so you're not going to ever you're not gonna be able to get to these other lots, are you, unless you unless you buy them all.

Not the interior.

So really you might have the same thing happen just north, right?

If this is successful, I mean it's it you know, reinvestment in the area could be very positive.

New houses, it could also, you know, it could also change Raven.

Do you have any are these are these homeowners or these rnors over here?

Do you know?

To the north.

I believe I know for sure there's one homeowner, but I can't be for sure so certain about the rest.

And so I like I said, I have a lot of miss mixed emotions because this definitely will change the um the feel and the integrity of the community, but I don't know if it'll necessarily be for the bad.

But a few things that I do have issues about, I wish I could get uh some answers on.

I I think we just have to see how it works out in the process.

But this already is a dense area if you look to the south and you look to the west.

So we we do have a lot going on here.

Um I think the reason but this is but this is recommended according to framework, and I'm always maintenance.

I'm thinking about the reason it's approved by framework or or possibly allowed is because we had a lot of discussions about urban infill for for workforce housing.

I mean, the only way to create housing, I mean we we've got a workforce issue, they can't they can't afford houses in our community, and so by taking a lot, it's 50 by 150 that has one house on it and dividing it up into five home sites does lower the cost per home theoretically for the potential purchaser or renter or who whatever product it becomes, and so we want it to be a little bit more open to those type things.

So this is this is a great case study here.

Well, I I will say this for me, you know, considering this situation, I believe that we should look at everything on a case-by-case basis.

So just because you know, regardless of what happens here on this property, I don't think we can say that every case will fit every neighborhood in every situation.

So that's how I feel about this.

If this is recommended or suggested um due to framework, I just think that you know we have considered all of the facts to make sure that that's possible, and it's in the best interest of all of the residents.

I I like to think that we are consistent, but I never feel that we have set precedent that we are obligated to follow just because somebody else refers something similar.

So um I agree that every property is unique.

Um and the reason that we hear them one by one instead of just checking boxes and saying this uh this fits this category, and we take all these things into consideration.

So I I do think it's worthy to consider whether the neighborhood and the the neighbors themselves are are concerned about it and if we were in a looking at a a property where the neighborhood lies very concerned about it, then I think we can take that into consideration also to that point to clarify we did touch the uh condominium that's right behind as a very large property right behind um what is that called midtown.

We did touch the uh condominium that's right behind is a very large property right behind um what is that called midtown.

So that's where that 200 276 had to be total.

Yeah, but aside from that one, you probably have about 60 to 70, you know, homeowners or um yeah, small apartments.

All right, I feel like we've kind of everybody's gotten their two cents in a little last minute comments.

I think we're probably at the point we need to take a vote.

Okay, everybody go with that.

I beg your pardon.

Great vote.

Oh, yeah.

All right, Commission.

Wanna take two votes on this case?

For first, we have Z 1725, the pay construction petitions rezone the 8.84 acres from SFR1 to MR1 in conjunction with S 6325.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion to approve.

Second.

Ms.

Hornsby.

Yes.

No.

No.

Yes.

No.

No.

Yes.

No.

Mission we have for us.

S 6325.

Um that is the reserve of lot one.

ML Harper number two with one branch of West Sidewalk Construction.

Engineering has a uh understanding with the developer that a bond would be posted at construction sidewalk would occur by unit.

Motion.

Second.

Is this the same case?

Okay, I have a question then because I don't know.

Okay.

All right.

Since you know they they can go to the city council even with a negative recommendation.

And the city council would approve it.

Then they would be able to build the subdivision as it is proposed.

But but right now, because it still zone S F R whatever, it's not possible.

So do we put do if we do we put a condition on the city council approving the rezoning?

Right.

So if the subdivisions denied the rezoning could get approved, but then they'd have to come back and subdivide again, or if the subdivision is approved, it would be contingent on that rezoning being approved because it wouldn't meet the ordinance.

So no can no conditions or anything needed other than the variance for the sidewalk construction.

Okay.

What are we voting on now?

Subdivision.

Subdivision.

All right, so we had a motion of second, correct?

Mr.

Rumsey?

Yes.

Yes.

No.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

Next case.

All right, Commission.

Moving into our cases to be heard.

Starting off, we have a rezoning petition that Z 1925.

Jamie Grave Titans to rezone approximately 0.55 acres, located at and around 2678 21st Street from NC to MR1.

This is Council District 2.

You can see here we're just west of 359, kind of southeast of Central Elementary School and West Lawn Middle School.

You can see that property today, there is an existing structure as well as those vacant uh parcels around it.

You can see they are all zoned neighborhood commercial.

Uh, they're surrounded by residential districts here.

Um they'd like to rezone from NC to MR1 to construct single family homes with accessory structures.

Uh you can see this is that existing building on site today, um, and just a few um additional photos of the surrounding properties.

You can see this is the site plan we received.

Um we cannot confirm if this is exactly what could be built without more information on the setbacks and additional information, but that's kind of their preliminary site plan here.

Um here's again that um existing storefront and some examples of what could be built here.

Um in framework, this area is identified as traditional neighborhood core.

So this rezoning request does conform to the plan as well as um the uses identified in the plan.

You can see that identification here for traditional neighborhood core.

Uh in terms of and excuse me, in terms of our permitted uses, you can see MR1 highlighted here in yellow, um, and continuing to those permitted uses here.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

No ma'am, thank you.

Petitioner, Mr.

Chairman, members of Commission Chris, and Centel Engineering.

This is an old neighborhood store.

They want to tear it down, and uh the lots already exist.

So there are four residential lots and uh the same house that she's proposing would fit on those lots.

So we want to take it back to the neighborhood uh residential.

Any questions for petitioner?

Thanks, sir.

No one's a no one sign up.

Anyone care to speak for or against this petition request.

Having heard none, I think this is a pretty easy one.

Yes, thank you.

Commission before we have a rezoning request Z 1925.

Mr.

Gray petition to rezone.

Uh 2678 21st Street from NC to MR1.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion.

Ms.

Hornsby.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

All right, Commission.

Moving into our next companion case.

Uh, this is Hargrove Micro Park.

This is three parts.

So, first an annexation, rezoning, and then finally a subdivision.

Uh, this is 2.3 acres located at 3311 and 3327 Hargrove Road East.

Um, once annexed, they'd like to rezone to GC General Commercial, and then uh do a lot consolidation for the subdivision.

You all have seen this property before.

Um, in January came before you can see we're on Hargrove Road, just west and south of I-20 and Bowers Park.

There's two properties here today.

You can see there's existing homes here.

Um, and you can see they'd like to annex those two parcels into city limits shown in blue.

Um, they'd like to annex into city limits four new office warehouse buildings, and this area is identified as a primary expansion area and framework.

Um, here are staff comments on the annexation petition.

Moving into the rezoning, if annexed, um, they'd enter city limits as SFR1.

From there, they'd like to rezone to GC.

So here again is those properties.

You can see those existing single family homes.

They are in the PJ today.

You can see they do touch general commercial to the north as well as residential districts on the other sides of the property.

Um, they'd like to do this rezoning to allow for that office warehouse, um, contractor's warehouse use.

Um, and you can see those properties today, um, those existing homes shown here.

Um, this is looking up the road on 34th, I believe this is Avenue East into the neighborhood, um, and then this is on Hargrove Road, um, just showing you kind of the surrounding area.

This is the site plan you saw in January, um, and here is that revised site plan.

You can see they kind of move those buildings onto the outside of the lot, um, as well as they submitted a new landscaping plan for this development.

You can see here's the project overview.

There's more in the packet, but just brief overview here.

Um, we do have some materials, um, brick veneer, metal board, um, signage, um, just kind of just the overall um use, and you can see that rendering here just for kind of what this could look like if developed, um, and zooming in on those individual office uh warehouses.

Um, here's a sample of the materials being proposed.

Um, and here is um kind of the surrounding uses that the petitioner submitted with the petition.

Um getting into framework here.

This um area was identified as suburban residential, so the zoning request and the use do not conform with um framework.

You can see those identified as suburban residential here.

Um moving into the permitted uses and general commercial.

You can see those highlighted and just moving through the potential uses here.

Um, lastly, um, they do have those two lots they'd like to subdivide and create one lot.

You can see those existing buildings and just moving that uh middle lot line that runs between them to consolidate that lot.

You can see here without contours.

Uh, they do have a variance request for sidewalk construction.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering on the variance request for sidewalk.

We'd be okay with a variance request on this.

Is it within one half mile of the of Bowers Park?

It is, I don't know.

Of Bowers Park.

No, isn't that pretty close?

Good evening, Tom Sims with Longleaf Engineering.

Uh this is a project you guys saw uh six or seven months ago, and and since that time we've met with the uh property owner uh multiple times to try to figure out what he felt like his best path for it is uh it is currently in the county.

Uh one thing that he felt uh was uh advantageous to him and and also the city is to be in the city limits and to and to provide the uh the development, you know, in accordance with city regulations, which is the reason that we provided the landscape plan and and some more details that we didn't have last time when we were just asking for zoning.

That seemed to be a a big area of concern when we talked about it last time.

Uh again, this is this is something that hasn't changed conceptually from what he wants to do from the the sort of the office warehouse type configuration, but I do believe it would be a much more attractive and aesthetic uh development um meeting the the city regulations for what you see here.

We also provided um the surrounding land uses.

I just wanted to point out that there it is there.

So the things you see in the the should sort of yellowish or light yellow it is the residential that's along Hargrove there, that is uh Hargrove running parallel to the interstate there just south of the interstate, and the pink uh areas are are commercial, and the uh the orange areas are multifamily.

So this this encapsulates a little bit more of the actual use there because several of these parcels are in the county and not necessarily zoned in the city.

So we have a breakdown there.

There's about 50 percent of the the uh properties that front hardgrove along this section here from basically um skyline up to the interstate uh about 50 percent single family, uh the rest are multifamily or commercial.

Uh there's a couple of undeveloped parcels too, so uh it's not completely uh out of character for the area, particularly on this hargrove.

But um the owner also uh would would like to speak briefly about the uh uh the plans that he has, and he also reached out too.

I know we had some neighboring concerns last time, and he's had some discussions there too that I'm sure he can share with you.

Um you have any questions before I take him talk?

Bring back up the site plan again.

So the property to the south, that's not part of this project, right?

No, sir.

That's is that parcel in the county still?

Uh it is in the county.

I believe it's residential, single family residential in the county.

Well, that's a neighborhood behind it's all single family residential.

Yes, right.

They're in the city.

So you're just bringing in the the top half of it, right?

Or you bringing in the city.

Yes, he he only owns these the two parcels to the north of the city.

The hashtag.

Yes, sir.

Okay, and if it stayed in the county, could it support a septic tank system?

It can.

And and he has we have developed an alternate plan for the development for him to stay in the county.

Um, he'll he'll lose a little bit of density there.

Uh, but he also won't have you know some of the city requirements we have for screening and landscaping sort of a trade-off there.

We will we don't call them requirements, we call them protection, of course, because any piece of property like this in the county do almost anything with it.

That's one thing we always try to remind people that in areas like anybody's got neighborhoods that are in the county, it's to their protection again the city, so it does offer that.

Okay.

I know one question we ask a lot of times is did you try to meet with the neighbors in Broadview and get any opinion from any of those?

Yes, sir.

And I was gonna let the property owner is gonna speak on that.

He has reached out a couple times since that last meeting.

And I think last time you came before us have some questions about hours of operations to where it wouldn't affect the neighborhoods.

This is was seems like it's gated.

Uh it wasn't gated, but uh, but the intent here is is definitely to limit the hours of operation.

This was not be a uh all hour facility at all.

How do you how do you govern that?

Well, uh you know that this thing will be sort of part of a commercial HOA effectively uh because they will have shared buildings and landscaping and that sort of thing, and I think it's easily governed within those regulations.

So legally we can put in the HA regs that we can they'll work in past 7 p.m.

I I think another question we had last time was hard roads busy and getting in and out of this not at a turn but it's almost in the turn but probably before you get to the red light going back to Woodland Hills.

And what do you think about the traffic is we need look at turn lane or anything like that.

So I don't think they know yet what the what businesses will go there.

So I could ask for a trip generation uh summary with their request for approval of plans to determine whether or not a left turn lane is needed.

I just like everywhere between seven and eight thirty and three thirty and five thirty it's really busy it's busy all day it's really busy early and late I just want to be sure whatever we do we do it safe.

Yeah that that would be a condition of getting their land development permit approval that they would have to fulfill whatever that traffic analysis uh you know brought to bear so has a traffic study already been conducted no yeah ma'am this was uh what we considered the first step in the process but we'd you know we'd do that analysis in conjunction with uh engineering during the LDP process and when you know more about what business is hopefully yes ma'am yeah any other questions for this part of the petitioner's presentation thank you said your developer wants to have a word yes please all right uh clay smith it's one one two seven one dooley circle in northport um I think one of the major differences that we tried to put together this time versus the last time was more of a complete picture of what we are trying to accomplish last time we more or less just had block plan and it's been a little ill prepared uh on our part so trying to explain better of what we envisioned there and the narrative explains that um what we one of the areas with this type of uh complex the amount of traffic should be held at a minimum this is not going to be a coffee shop where you have track constant people in and out all day there's majority of these units are going to be come in gather up a few things and go out to a job site given landscaping's crew a small plumber one man plumber that type of uh businesses how do you dictate that I'm sorry how do you dictate that uh so we're gonna keep it as a commercial lease and we'll we'll own the property so we'll have final say over every tenant okay so uh as far as hours operation that's something that we could put in the lease and everything I I appreciate I know that when you were here last week um asked a lot of questions about materials and landscaping and I think at that point you weren't you weren't asking to come into the city obligated by that but the there this is significant.

Yes and I appreciate you talking to the neighbors that you were yeah and I understand the impact of uh the neighborhood there but the kind of plot plan that we put together with all the unzoned areas I mean you have the majority of the houses there are either unzoned where you have commercial type properties going on already like it's eating cooling is one of those that's they're unzoned there's no regulation to it and he also owns the properties across the street there so it's residential but it's also you know then there's some more to the right uh pretty much every uh a vast majority of everything along the hargrove road corridor is either unzoned or there's very few owner occupied I guess so I know uh broad view they'll have that entrance that's why we tried to separate it out into three different buildings to kind of help their view of make it a little bit more cyclic pleasant with landscaping and everything as well what are the slanted lines that are within the building I'm just curious

It's either unzoned or there's very few owner occupied, I guess.

So I know uh Broadview, they'll have that entrance.

That's why we tried to separate it out into three different buildings to kind of help their view of make it a little bit more cyclically with landscaping and everything as well.

What are the slanted lines that are within the building?

I'm just curious.

I mean, not that it makes a difference what they are seeing staff circle what is inside the building.

There's these little almost like parallel parking.

I think that's uh you mean these lines are here, all right.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, I think it's just kind of a detail that's nothing that signifies anything specific based off of what the engineers say.

It's probably it's probably just a little hatch.

A bill or something like that.

Uh this drawing is significantly different than the one we saw last time.

I mean, this one that's showing very heavy plantings on the perimeter of this building.

This this building is showing, I mean, this drawing is showing that they are going to extraordinary cost and effort to buffer this building from the from the neighbors, and and of course we've talked about they could you know I voted against I was against this last time because basically my grandmother stood up here and acted like we were gonna destroy her life, you know, in this neighborhood.

She was just you know, it's just a just a sweet neighborhood with you know, and it looked and you know you can imagine a lot of trucks going in and out of here.

You can you can imagine their life just changing dramatically, you know.

So but but given I mean this is a this is a material difference than that drawing.

You you've made a now are you are you dedicating yourself to actually build plant these things?

Plant it like this.

I'm saying are you you drawing it or are you gonna do it?

Well, that's if it's in the city, that's what the uh regulation calls for.

Well, I mean you go to you go to count and plants on this southern line here.

I mean, that's a lot of plantings.

You're you're showing material buffer.

I mean, it's if you're gonna show it, you need to be willing to do it.

I mean, it's my fault, and I saw I think that's meeting the current city code with the landscaping buffer, is also that uh the masonry wall or dividing wall that is on the left side and the bottom side.

It's kind of hard to see with everything going on there, but that'll also be you know, significant cost for us to be into the city.

That's just on the southern side, uh, eastern side.

Oh, that'd be the northern side, wouldn't it?

Yes, uh bottom.

This would be northern, that would be western.

I think that can't see uh they cut off the compass on the drawing, so I'm not sure.

We got some people that decide to speak, and we might be calling you back up.

So let's see more questions for petitioner.

Let's let's hear from those who are here to speak, and then we might bring you back up.

Okay, two with that.

Okay, okay.

Mr.

Chairman, we have uh Carolyn Booth Miss Booth.

I'm the grandmother gonna go back to the Miss Booth.

I knew that was coming.

I knew that was coming.

Name and address for the record.

My name is Carolyn Emerson B.

I live at 3709 34th Avenue East.

If you come down Hargrove Road and you come to what used to be Broadview Subdivision, my house sits caddy corner to Hargrove Road in Broadview, 34th Avenue East.

And I'm still opposing this rezoning, as are all my neighbors.

My neighborhood is made up of both black families and white families.

We're just one big community there.

Loves each other and loves our neighborhood.

Now, if you go back to that drawing that showed before that showed the gray, the purple zoning map.

No, I want the one that shows what's in the city and what sucks.

Zoning map communities, yes, that one.

All that purple back there in the back, that's land that adjoins back to uh McFarland.

I mean Scott and Boulevard, and land behind there.

That's not the light out is not even developed.

But across from our subdivision is a church and a car wash.

And that car wash is not used very much as a car wash.

It's mostly a congregating place.

Late at night, you might hear loud music, cars congregating down there.

It's just a big problem.

But anyway, when we met last time, the commission voted against it.

And they even told the longleaf or whatever they are that there was no use in going back and working on their drawings, that it would not be approved.

So I was pretty shocked when I got the letter about a week and a half ago, stating we were having this meeting again.

I didn't bother trying to get a petition again because I've already done that.

But I want to share with you some of the things that happened since then.

I was contacted by Mr.

Smith, and he asked to meet with me to try to convince me to go along with this proposal.

And I told Mr.

Smith there was no use.

No way could I approve for that property because my house is right across the road from it on the Broadview Road.

And I told him if he wanted to meet, that he really needed to meet with the whole community.

But that never happened.

By the time Mr.

Smith and I talked, uh he told me, and I didn't know whether to take this as a threat, or just how to take it.

Or anyway, he told me that if we did not approve, this was not approved for them to put it in the city, that he had already invested a lot of money in buying this property.

And if it didn't go in the city, it was gonna cost him a lot more money.

And therefore, if it didn't go in the city, he wasn't gonna be able to make it as nice as he would if we would approve could go in the city.

I didn't know if that was a bribe or a threat, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

I didn't like it at all.

You know how grandmothers are they don't like things like that.

But anyway, at the time we had our conversation, I told him, I said, you being a businessman like you are.

It seems like before you invested all that money in that property that you would have checked first to see if it was gonna be rezoned to the city in the city.

And he told me, I did talk to someone in the city, and I was pretty much assured that it would be rezoned.

And after we completed our conversation later on, I got to reliving all my notes of our conversation, and I thought, I wonder who in the city he talked to that had that kind of power, that they could make such a statement to him.

So I got on the phone and started trying to call Mr.

Smith back.

I made numerous calls.

Uh my calls never were answered, and finally I left a voice message.

And I told him I'd like to know who it was in the city that had that kind of power that could convince him to go ahead and buy all that property, and that it would be rezoned, but he never replied to me.

I'm just real disappointed.

I'm having to come back up here again because I this makes me very nervous having to talk to y'all.

But hey, I'd come up here and talk every day if it convinced you because that's my neighborhood.

I love my neighborhood.

I've been living there for 57 years.

We were some of the first ones to purchase lights when they were creating the Broadview subdivision.

We purchased two of the lights.

Love our neighborhood.

Don't want to move.

I'm too old to move.

I'm 81 years old, almost 82, so I don't want to move.

I love my neighborhood, but I don't want it runned by having this warehouse across the road for me.

And I'm just begging y'all, please do not consider that.

I don't think it's good.

As we said before, that traffic on Hargo Road is just unreal.

Sometimes we have a hard time getting out of Broadview.

And uh school buses go up and down that road.

People use it as a cut through instead of going on down Skyland, and then I mean, down McFarland and then on Skyland, they just cut through Hargo Road a lot quicker, a lot less traffic, get through that quicker.

So it's just a mess on the road.

And the time you know we bought there, there wasn't even an interstate over there.

That's how long I've been there.

Like I said, we love our empty.

We ran out of time.

So if if you wanted to give more time, you're gonna have to vote to do so.

Okay.

Thank you.

Just a little bit a little bit more, not no much longer, Mr.

Booth.

I can go just a few more few more seconds.

Okay.

Well, uh let's see, where was I?

Oh, because they're proposing that now doesn't mean it'll remain that once he gets in the city.

You know, a warehouse can be used for a lot of things, and some of the things that if you read what all uh could be in a business area like that, it's somehow it's not very stuff that we would like to be in our community for sure.

You know, it could end up alcohol, it could end up drugs, it could end up uh all kind of things, and because today or tomorrow or next year it's gonna remain the warehouse, an office warehouse doesn't mean 10 years from now, it'll be an office warehouse.

It's used for other things.

So you are aware that if we voted against this, it would appear like we were voting with you, but we could be dealing you quite a blow because I because you could, you know, we he could go out there and park a bunch of junk cars out there, and the city's gonna have a hard time exercising their their rights.

I mean, that he could he could try to make your life miserable.

He could do he could put some mobile ones.

Exactly.

But you know that's possible.

I know that's possible, and that's one reason I'm up here talking right now, is because I don't want that to happen.

I don't want our area to be ruined.

Well, I mean it's booth.

I'm saying it could be worse than this this very well.

Um, yeah, what he should I understand that and Ms.

Booth, that can happen tomorrow.

Big pardon?

And that can if we voted down, that can happen.

What you just all those things you named that you were afraid of 10 years down the road could happen tomorrow.

We voted it down.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's just something.

I mean, I'm just I'm just totally against it.

I just hate for our neighborhood to be ruined, and I hate for more traffic be on Hargo Road, even though that's uncontrollable.

And uh I don't know what else to say except I hope y'all won't approve it.

Last time you disapproved it.

In fact, you even told him he said he'd go back and do the drawings, and he was even told no use doing that because we're not gonna prove it.

And that's why I was so shocked when I got this letter.

So thank you, ma'am.

I'll sit down.

Thank you.

You did great.

Mr.

Chairman, we have uh Isaiah Harper.

Good afternoon.

Afternoon, board.

My name is Isale Harper.

Uh I live in the fourth house up into the community from Ms.

Booth.

Ums Booth is right.

What's that address for the record, please?

I'm sorry, 3743, 34th Avenue East.

Uh Ms.

Booth is right.

Last time we heard uh the consensus of this board was that this uh uh petition does not fit the future use of the plan for this area that the city has had, and that's what the board told the petitioner, and that was the reason that the board denied it.

Uh, to my recollection, I look back at the records, and I'm asking this board to stick with what this uh last board said.

Uh when you look at that map that she pulled up right there across from the subdivision, that commercial uh that they're talking about across from there is a church, it's a community church.

The pastor of that church lives within the Broadview subdivision across the street.

Sometimes he walks down to the church.

Uh so it is very much uh a you know a a neighborhood that uh is together.

Uh one of the other things I want you to consider is that this is uh uh a bus stop, it's right outside of where this building is proposed.

Uh the stop sign at the bottom there of Hargrove Road where you leave our subdivision.

That's a bus stop where kids stand uh and catch the bus.

Also, buses come uh turn constantly into our community, come up and go around the one-way circle and then come out.

So uh there's a lot of traffic there in the morning.

Um I know you as you were asking Miss Booth just a second ago, um, you know, that he can come and park a bunch of cars there if you don't approve it and turn it into a junkyard.

Well, he's not gonna do that because he's invested too much money, right?

So he's gonna try if he if you not approve it, he's going to try and sell it, sell it off to somebody that's gonna do something more reasonable if you guys do not approve it.

That's a gamble, but that's the gamble I think us uh most people in the community is willing to take.

Um so I'm gonna ask you guys to stick by what the lies um board did.

Uh keep in mind also that he's essentially just taking two houses that fronts a community and wants to drop a warehouse right there in their place, and it's essentially defacing our community.

If you let him do it, that's what's going to happen.

Um I don't think this board ever made a statement about why we voted against.

We may we never made a formal statement uh comprehensively because everybody on this board has a different reason for voting whatever they vote.

So that that just don't just don't say that we're going against the prior board.

That board is sitting right here in front of you.

Okay.

Well, there are some new members, but I'm telling you what the feel and the consensus that of the city is.

I was right.

You don't have to tell me I was here.

I understand.

But you would agree that you would agree.

We didn't talk about the consensus of the board was I just don't want you putting words in our mouth.

We did not comprehensively as a board say this building did not fit into the No I didn't call anybody by name.

I just said the consensus of the board and the feel of the board seemed to be for the most part that this was not in line with the future use plan of the city.

If you look at the future city use plan for this particular area, that's what the board talked about.

Uh I didn't call any particular names.

Um the petitioner, I live four doors up from his booth.

He has never come to talk to me.

I don't even know his name.

Okay.

So he's Ms.

Booth is the only one that he's apparently talked to in the community about this uh particular project.

Um and I and and finally, you know, I I live by something that my parents taught me.

Is that uh your first impression ought to be your best impression?

And so when this petitioner came before this board and brought you guys drawings and all the all those things, they didn't have the trees, they didn't tell the board what type of material they were going to use.

That showed they didn't care about the community that they were going to enjoy with their commercial project.

They had nothing.

They could tell you they didn't tell you the material.

I think somebody asked, what was what type of material are you gonna use to front this project?

They couldn't tell you.

So that was their first impression.

They don't really care, they're just bringing you something new to try again.

And and that's what you ought to consider.

From the last time to this time, uh, they have shown that they don't care about the community, they only want to get this building up uh because they've invested a lot of money in it.

And I think Mr.

Rumsey, I will call your name now.

You did ask him, is he dedicating himself to putting those trees there and those buffers there that I heard a second ago?

Again, your first impression should be your best impression.

He didn't care the last time because he didn't even present a map showing any kind of buffer zone.

Uh, and that's on the record.

I'm asking you to consider uh what the previous board, I know some of you guys are new, and um consider what they thought about it before you make a decision.

Okay, thank you.

Mr.

Harper, let me ask you this question.

So knowing that he made improvements from the last time, you're regardless of first impression.

Uh if um are you willing to take a risk or a gamble that that anything else could be put there to your disliking?

You know, is that is that any does that have any bearing on the yes?

I agree with Ms.

Booth that you know we're willing to take that risk because we we don't believe that he's gonna take this property that he spent thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of dollars on, because I know one of those properties was for sale for 337,000 not too long ago before he purchased it.

He's not gonna take and put junk on that property.

No, but he's gonna know the where he's gonna be able to do it.

Yes, well, that well, you know, I think we cross that bridge when we get to it.

I I'm just willing not to take the chance right now of him building anything on there.

If he goes and he builds something, he builds something ugly, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I think I'm just saying that just because I'm concerned, uh I would be concerned about that for you and Ms.

Booth.

But like I said, that's why I wanted to ask the question, just make sure, because that could that could happen.

You know, he could sell it regardless of how much he sells it for.

Somebody could put something that's totally worth far worse than what we're proposing tonight.

I just wanted to see if that what kind of risk that is.

Yeah, but I think I think most people are willing to take that chance.

Okay, and we're asking you guys to consider our filling and not deface our community right now with it.

And let's see what he does with it if you don't.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

I hold on to question.

Could if he if he met with y'all in the community, is there any way that y'all could you think he could work something out?

Um, and I'll ask that because we ran across this, we run across this all the time.

If this is in the city, then we can make him put the trees up, but indirect lighting.

Do certain things.

If it's not in the city, we don't have much power to tell him no, you can't do that, or you can't do this.

So if it's in the city, we can kind of control it to some extent.

If it's not, it could come in there and build a warehouse, and it could look like a warehouse.

Yes, and I think what the lies board did was approve the annexation recommendation, but they denied the zoning, and that's what we're asking you to do this time.

All right, well, they showed us till then the PJ.

Did we read on it last time?

Did annex it right?

Annex it.

Yeah, y'all typically approve annexations, but if you didn't like the rezoning, you typically recommend denial.

Let me uh let me make a statement.

I know this is beginning to become an issue of whether or not it's appropriate to annex or not.

Yeah, there's there is a city sewer system in 34th Avenue East.

My department's not going to approve a development on this piece of property.

Uh with an on-site sewage disposal system when the sewer is readily available.

I mean, it's just not good for public public health.

Um, so any any development that has to come to my office for approval would be required to connect a sanitary sewer.

But it has to be annexed.

Has to be annexed to do it.

Right.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Uh petitioner.

You care to come and address any of the comments or objections you heard from those in opposition.

Yes, uh I just wanted to make sure that it was clear that whenever I started looking at purchasing the property, we did speak with a few of uh city engineers and whatnot, and through who I purchased the property from a realtor, and it was not a guarantee of approval to be for what we were trying to build.

It was it's in the county, it's on's own land in the county, and it's open to that to be able to build what you built.

There was no guarantee of hey, well, yeah.

So I just want to make that clear.

And um, I did reach out to Miss Hagler that it's directly behind on that four-acre parcel that's also in zones, and I think she is the one person that's been living in this property longer than Ms.

Poole.

Um she actually grew up in the house that's the front of it that's on a I think 3327 Hartgrove, and before Broadview was there, it was cotton fields.

So I'm sure that time they would have loved for it to stay cotton fields and not have a neighborhood built, but the everything changes over time.

Um as far as the addition of the landscaping, the materials uh that is in the city code book, so we just kind of assumed on our end that if it was approved that we would be met with those requirements, and that was all understood.

I know we probably take that for granted for the general public, don't understand that, but that's one of the reasons why we didn't have that show on the plot plan because if it's approved, then we have to follow the city guidelines.

That's part of it, and uh we do have a plan in place if it's not approved, and it's not so it's uh again.

We do have a plan uh if it's not approved and it's not to sell, it's to build something that we can build in the county.

Did you talk to any of the engineers?

Did you hear what the engineer just said?

I did.

I mean that's problematic for you.

Yeah, I'm sorry, can you repeat that?

If it's not approved, what okay?

And that's based on the county perk testing and everything.

I mean I think she's asking you to repeat what you said that if it's not approved, you have a plan to build something.

Yeah, my question was you heard what the engineer said.

Well, Mike said anything that comes to his office, he wanted, but but if it doesn't come to your office, it doesn't come to your office, right?

He is a land disturbance for my office to break ground on any development there.

Can't you can't you can't circumvent that?

Okay, this if we see that's regardless of if if it's annexed in or not regardless, yes, anything in the planning jurisdiction has to come from my office for development approval.

Um Zach or maybe you mentioned it or the longly engineer.

If you stay in the county, your density has to be decreased, correct?

Yes, ma'am.

Did you talk to any other any other residents besides Ms.

Hagler?

Is she the only one you talked to, Ms.

Hagler and Ms.

Booth?

Yes, ma'am.

The two that are directly touch it, yes.

Okay.

Any other questions for petitioner?

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

All right, commission.

We've heard the petitioner and those in opposition, we've heard this before.

So we have three cases to discuss or start voting on.

So if there's any comments you'd like to make, please feel free to do that.

So this is gonna be similar to the one before.

If if any okay, sorry.

Okay, hypothetically.

If I vote no on the rezoning, I could still vote yes on the subdivision, and then it would just if it if the council votes to rezone it, it just falls into place.

Yes.

So for this one, if the annexation was recommended to be approved, that could go to council and be annexed in as SFR one.

Um if the zoning is approved, then when they annex in as SFR1, they would then go to council to annex in as GC or to rezone to GC, and then the subdivision stays with you guys.

Um y'all have the final say on that, and it's just to remove that middle lot line.

So these two lots would then become one lot, but still be in the county if others failed.

Can you uh go back to the verbiage about whether it conforms to the comprehensive plan?

Okay, all right, thank you.

I mean, this is a this is a tough one just because of the like we said several times, and we're gonna say it again tonight.

This is county property and what could be done around it, could be anything.

However, we just serve from engineering that he's not gonna approve anything.

Uh that he has to sign off on that kind of ends the equation a little bit, but is it anything at all, or are you talking about only things that would need land disturbance permit?

He wouldn't approve a land disturbance permit.

So basically, it covers any form of development.

Um that you know he needs a land development permit from my office to to do anything, including a connection to Harbro Road or 34th Avenue East, uh, would require driveway permit.

I see.

So that that really throws our theory that anything could be built there.

Pretty much.

Oh, what out the window, right?

It depends on how angry the city engineer gets.

No to sell.

And you you're saying that you would not approve it for what reasons.

So, ma'am, I think that my charge in as part of this uh position is you know, obviously, protecting public health, safety and welfare.

That's okay.

Um, as a licensed engineer, we're charged with that.

Um site sewage disposal systems were intended for a temporary purpose until municipal sewer reaches the development.

Well, municipal sewer is already there.

There's no need to risk a failing on-site sewage disposal system when sewers in the street next to the development.

But a used car lot would not require a sewer system necessarily, right?

So if he has a development that doesn't require an a connect into sewer, that might be something that I'm I'm I would have to approve, but I don't know what that would be.

I'd say he has to have bathrooms, yeah.

That's probably that's probably unlikely that that would be any development.

Yeah, but that's pretty pretty narrow list, right?

Right.

All right.

Any other comments or questions?

All right, let's having heard none, last chance, so here we go, guys.

Commission before us, we have annexation request, I in 1425.

Westing 2.3 acres located at 3311 and 3327 Hargrove Road.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion.

Mr.

Rums.

Mr.

Rumsey.

Yeah.

No.

No.

This is an annexation then.

You're gonna vote no on the anxiety.

Well, I mean, he's not gonna, they're not gonna add it.

Yeah, yes on the annex.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Welcome to the city.

Maybe.

All right.

Now we have Z 2025 Long Leaf Engineering.

Petition to rezone at 2.3 acres at 3311, 3327 Hargrove Road from SFR1, which came into the CDS by the annexation to GC.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion.

Mr.

Hornsby.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Commission for us.

S 6925.

Thanks for removing so quickly from me.

We have Bobby Hagar subdivision on flat land because it's in one lot at 2.3 acres.

Previous mentioned address with one variance request.

Sidewall construction engineering has no issues with.

Motion.

Second.

Mr.

Rumsey.

No.

Yes.

No.

Yes.

Ms.

Hornsby.

Yes.

No.

Yes.

Yes.

What's the bottom?

What was the count on that?

Three would be six to approved.

How many no's we have?

Yes.

Five, yes.

Five yeses.

So the three.

Not approved.

Okay.

Okay.

Or now without a recommendation.

Well, not approved.

That's right.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

All right, Commission.

We have another companion case.

That is River Bluff Subdivision.

This is an annexation and a subdivision request of 40.8 acres.

It's just south of 3685 River Bluff Drive.

And then with that annexation, doing a 31 lot subdivision.

At this property, this is Council District 3.

You can see here we're just north of the Black Warrior River, kind of right off of McWright's Ferry.

I mean you can see that parcel today is undeveloped, it's currently vacant.

You can see that is the piece they would like to annex into city limits shown in blue.

They'd like to annex to get on city infrastructure.

And this parcel is identified as a primary expansion area.

And here are department request um excuse me, department comments on the annexation petition.

And just looking at it briefly, this is that proposed 31 lot subdivision that we'll look at more closely as we move into the subdivision requests.

Again, 31 lots, so it'll be 30 single family residential lots, one open space.

So again, that parcel is vacant today.

We're just south of Acadian Place to the north.

Can see those 31 lots here, that one open space against the Black Warrior River.

Um the rest to be single family uh dwelling lots, and you can see that without contours here.

And now just zooming in, see those 31 lots starting at the east.

Uh, you can see about 85 foot width, um, smaller lots to the north, the larger lots as you move south towards the river.

Um, and on the western side, you can see that kind of same pattern kept with those larger lots um south towards the river.

We do have a variance request for stub streets.

We did receive one public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering on the stub street.

We're in favor of this request.

Stubstreet.

Yeah, just want to get on the record.

Uh before we get in that, can we pull up the neighborhoods to the north?

They're any better visual of maybe the lot sizes of those in in comparison to what is proposed here.

Let's see it.

I don't know if we have a greater one, but Mr.

Pons just drew on there.

It looks like there's one lot.

Um the other ones that what I'm seeing.

I think this one probably shows it best.

You've got you know, this is the lot line here.

Yeah.

And then you got some separation here.

That's just the joining lot to this development.

Oh, you're talking about the overall.

I'm talking about the overall.

We can pull something up on we'll pull something at some point.

We'll let's hear from the petition if you don't mind.

Petitioner.

Mr.

Chairman, members of the board, Paul Burkhoffer here representing the developers for River Bluff Subdivision.

Um I think we've addressed everything that was questioned by the staff, and uh if there's any questions, I'll try to answer them.

Um got a lot of questions.

Okay.

Let me ask this.

Have you met with a neighbor?

No, we have not.

Okay.

We will be willing to.

I mean.

You are willing to?

Yes, sir.

All right, I know.

All right.

Um couple of thoughts come to mind.

This is you know, we we see a lot of neighborhoods in existence, been there for a while, well respected, well kept, power their neighborhoods, right?

Yes, sir.

And we get this adjoining property, and a lot of times we talk about you know what type of developments are gonna be.

Is it in there?

They're gonna want to know how's it gonna affect their property values.

Oh, I understand completely get that.

Yes, sir.

So my kind of my questions are a couple.

One being, like I'm seeing the lots up here on the right hand side of the of the drawing here.

I mentioned it earlier when we did the towns, we had a development there, and we had similar situations with four or five lots by one property owner.

And the concern I really had was that property owner to the north there, he's now gonna potentially have five neighbors.

That's correct, and you're gonna have potentially five different backyards looking into yours.

Okay, and we talked a lot with that development previously about buffer.

I don't know what the buffer plans are.

Like to hear your comments on the buffer plan.

Thinking about these people that are gonna be right up against this.

So talk about the buffer plan.

Well, we don't we don't really have a buffer plan.

Uh you know, the subvisionary request regulations require us to do the 35-foot setback in the backyard.

So there's already basically a buffer back there.

The building you mean from the building, the back of the building.

Well, yeah, on the back of the lots.

So I mean, if if you want to call that a buffer, I guess you could.

Well, and like my again, if I'm that guy out there and I am I gonna have a chain link fence, a dog ear fence.

You know what I'm saying?

I mean that's what gets me heartburn is that if I'm living there, I want to see some consistency on that entire property line.

Okay.

And I want a buffer that's respectable, not just haphazard.

Uh that that would be what we did with the the development of the towns that we finally got to a good place.

So I think that's something that we need to have a plan for.

Don't just say we're gonna do something.

Oh, I understand.

We totally respect the existing subdivision.

We're not gonna try to do anything to impact the existing subdivision.

We want to be part of that development.

I mean, we'll be willing to work with the homeowners association and uh whatever.

Um so we don't have an objections to do in a buffer, a fence.

You know, if that's what they would like to have, we don't have a problem with that at all.

Let's talk about the homeowners association.

Are you proposing or thinking about wanting to ask to join their homeowners association?

Or are you gonna form your own?

Well, I would think normally we would form our own, but if they would, you know, if they would be willing to work with us, we we could become part of that homeowners association.

See, I would think with this being such a yeah, adjoining neighborhood, correct having one's homeowner standard and rules and regulations.

That that that might give these folks peace of mind that they're yes, and you know, well, I've looked at a restrictive covenant, so you know there's no issue if if you know we can use the same restrictive covenants.

Like I said, we want to be part of this development.

We don't want to do something that's gonna degrade their subdivision at all.

Well, you know, you heard us say this a couple times now.

Our biggest fears this isn't the county.

Yes.

We want the city.

Whoop, yes, that gives these guys protections.

Um you know, I always worry about let's try to get to an amicable place because I fear that if we don't get there and you go, you get the diet across the board, then you're not gonna come back before us again.

You can do anything you want to there.

That would not be good.

Well, same thing for any future developments.

I my goal hope is to get us to a happy place with these folks that are about to come up here and pour airs a little bit.

Oh, yeah, that's fine.

And we so we would be willing to work with them in any way.

Well, but you didn't meet with the neighbors.

I heard lots of moans and groans.

Oh no, we haven't.

We didn't know there was an issue.

Okay, well that's all right, guys.

We'll we'll we'll have uh anyway.

I just you know, we again must I think we've heard someone say tonight, Mr.

Pew might have said this.

We always encourage these groups to get together and talk before they get here because that point is kind of hard to get to a good place and everybody wins.

So I hate we didn't do that.

I don't know if we can get there now, or we can think about doing something later and y'all get together.

But those are I can guarantee we're gonna some of the things I said are we're gonna hear from here in a few minutes.

So those are my questions.

Anybody else have questions for petitioner?

Um no question, but my main concern was exactly what you brought up about those five lots and uh the home to the north of them.

Um that's a concern for me.

And I also uh maybe this is just one light.

Yeah, I just feel like it would have been a show of good faith if you would have least at least tried to reach out to some of the surrounding community members.

Okay, that's important.

Any other I have a question.

Um the leftover property that Dominion still owns.

I don't know if it's around 15 acres.

What I mean, I know they're not I know they're not gonna be any stub streets, so what public access does that property have?

Is it just gonna be holding the world together?

And that's all it's gonna do, or what?

Which property were we referring to, Ms.

Brent?

This it's below.

I don't know if it's a lot of looking okay.

So the south end of this property adjoins the river.

Yeah, goes all the way to the river.

But he's killing off the lots well before the river.

Yeah, there's a large open space area that they're dedicating.

Basically, it's unusable or undevelopable or or a challenge, it's going to be affected by the floodway and just some extremely steep topography.

So they're avoiding doing anything with this the plan that they're presenting.

And is that designated?

I I'm sorry, I just can't see this writing as so little.

Is that designated as one of the lots within the subdivision?

No, it's designated as open space.

It'll be a non-buildable flat it.

That's what I can.

Yeah, it'll be platted as a non-buildable lot.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Any other motions?

So are we gonna ask them to meet with the neighbors first and bring it back or what?

I think we need to hear.

I mean, everybody's here, they signed up, they made the effort to get out of here tonight.

We need to hear from them.

Okay, and then that way if you'd be good for you to hear from them, and you can decide at that point.

Are we in a place where we can get ask for a vote or you want to talk to these guys a little deeper and have a understanding?

But anyway, okay.

Any other questions for the petitioner?

Thank you, sir.

I'm sure we'll be calling you back.

So who do we have signed up to speak?

All right, Mr.

Chairman.

We have the HOA board representative.

I think it's Adam.

Is that correct?

Hello.

Name and address for the name's Doug Simpson.

I currently represent the HOA of Acadian Place as the president of Acadian Place.

It's our privilege to be able to talk to you tonight regarding the future plans and the development as what you just saw.

But before I get started, I would like to address two of the questions that you had.

There has been no contact, and we would appreciate the contact.

Let me be clear with that with all of you.

Secondly, one of the biggest topics that we have is when you someone mentioned.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear, but I couldn't uh understand the specific of the questions, but someone talked or asked about the size of the lots.

I'll get in that in the detail, but if you look at the five lots to the northeast of the proposed development, those lots do not match the estate section, which is the access right that that current development is being planned to go through.

So what we would ask in in and Adam will get to that in a second, is that that plan be redrawn to where it would meet uh the same lot size and house minimum that is required within the covenants.

Can we get some lot sizes of the adjoining neighborhood Acadium?

Is Acadian place and then there's another what's the river bluff is a road, right?

It is yes, it's is it part of Acadian HOA?

It is.

And I'll be fair to them as well.

If there's lots of like Acadian, there's three set sections of Acadian Place.

Right.

And the further north section, the one that is adjacent to which will touch all the square footage that is shown drawn is the estate section that has a square foot minimum along with a lot size minimum.

Yeah, this the smallest lot in that section is.

So I'm Adam Ingram.

I'm at 4375 Acadian place.

Okay.

I'm on the board also.

Okay.

Yeah.

HOA.

I am, yes, sir.

Would you entertain working with them to be part of your HOA?

Mr.

Wright, we most certainly would.

We have attempted multiple times through a third party contact and through text messages to contact the developer as recent as this week through again third party uh representation, uh the mutual friends as I would call them, and we have yet to be contacted.

At least we got he's kind of agreed to talk to you about HOA being one, and you're open to talking to him about it.

The HOA is great.

Thank you.

And I think I can speak to the neighborhood as well.

Please continue.

Yeah.

So, you know, again, first let me say we recognize the importance of growth of our city.

We we are very much a fan of the McWright's Ferry Extension project that has changed the landscape of Tuscaloosa forever.

And we're a big fan of that.

As you're aware, the proposed development is asking to access their property via River Bluff Drive is shown north of the connection point.

And as a resident who would be directly impacted by the proposed residential development, I want to raise concerns about how this project will affect the people who will call our neighborhood home moving forward if approved.

Obviously, we're concerned regarding uh safety and regarding the traffic or streets during the morning hours, especially, are already at near capacity, adding approximately 100 more vehicles, as you stated earlier, four four vehicles per home, approximately 120 more vehicles, ingress egress of uh two times today or twice a day, looking at 360 ins and outs coming through that small section of the road obviously is a something that we are deeply concerned about.

If this project is approved during the construction, we would see increased traffic due to heavy equipment, material deliveries, and a multitude of construction work vehicles.

What we know from research, we it shows that a neighborhood the size of what is being proposed, early construction phase would consist of approximately 20 to 40 trips per day.

During the active building phase, we could expect traffic to increase 60 to 100 trips per day.

While during the late construction phase, we would expect a volume of approximately 30 to 60 trips per day.

And if you'll see the river bluff road, you'll see, although it's 27 feet in uh width, it is one small entrance into the proposed development.

Studies also show that an average household generates to your point nine to ten vehicle trips per day.

For a neighborhood the size of the proposed development, the volume increase on that small road would vary from 30 to 360 trips per day.

Our concerns for pedestrian safety just as in exist for our neighborhood.

If you'll please pull up the presentation that I attached.

So we do not have your presentation.

I don't believe we've got Doug Simpson at MercedesBenz.com.

Okay.

Did he receive any like I did receive?

I didn't receive any messages.

But maybe if you'll if you'll go back to the slide that showed um Acadian place.

Yeah, we'll pull that up.

Our concerns for pedestrian safety isn't just for our neighborhood.

Uh our concerns also extends to the McMike McWright's Ferry spur as shown.

Although we're super excited for the addition of the river walk, unfortunately, our neighborhood along with others have zero safe access points to enjoy the new walk without placing ourselves and our children at risk to access the new walk.

As intended, the new walk has connected all the neighborhoods of McWright's Ferry Road from Lexington Downs, Brook Highland, Northridge Circle to Acadian Place.

The 500 plus residents are now part of a wonderful ecosystem of neighborhoods.

However, Brook Highland, Northridge Circle, Acadian Place, and other residents of the Spur currently do not have any safe passage to enjoy the new road.

Neighborhood design, which is something that we're very concerned with.

Many of us moved to the neighborhood because of its quiet residential nature.

Another development that extends directly off our state section risk changing the character of our neighborhood forever, making it less livable for current families while not necessarily serving the long-term needs of the community.

Again, if the the developer is ready or willing to meet with the HOA board, we definitely accept that request.

With that in mind, I'll turn it to Adam to discuss some of the technical reasons of our concerns.

Yeah, just real briefly.

So I'm a uh I'm a civil engineer and familiar with development and that kind of thing.

And so I have just really two specific concerns related to the traffic, really about the pedestrian and the potential for pedestrian conflicts.

And a couple things I want to call your attention to.

One is we don't have sidewalks in Acadian Place along either entrance or along River Bluff Drive.

So consequently, all of our pedestrians, dog walkers, everybody is going to be in the roadway.

And then the other thing is that you can see the traffic circle there that River Bluff Drive comes off of.

And as a matter of fact, the northeast corner of that is our playground for our neighborhood.

So kind of everybody has some concerns about the traffic circle and the number of cars that are going to be going through there.

And so because of that, I've got two requests.

One, we're in support of the no substreets labor that they've asked for.

And in fact, we would actually ask that they slide the cul-de-sact on the east side away from the property line so that the right-of-way doesn't touch the property line.

And also, I wanted to ask if we could have the uh developer required to have a traffic study done so that we can see you know, maybe there's recommendations in the report, maybe not, but at least then we could see that it had been considered.

Thank you very much.

If I may, just real quick, please.

Other requests that we would like to make on record is it is we would request that the developer adhere to the state section of Acadian Place architectural design.

We would also ask that the developer adhere to the state section of Acadian Place lot size, which is currently uh 10 as shown or below our minimum.

Ensure the new development utilizes green space.

If you look at the development, there's very little if no green space that's consistent with recent developments.

Currently, when you do a comparison of the towns of North River and High Grove, there's subsequent amount of green space, which is not shown there, and that comes in play due to the fact that our concern is that we do have applicable uh green space along with the playground that if approved as is, we would have to, I'd say mitigate the use of our uh playground and our green space with an existing neighborhood.

We ask that the board members require, as you called it, a static buffer up to 40 feet between the new development and the homes that touch these currently these four properties, and then as Adam discussed, uh a traffic study to be done so we can understand the real impact related to Academy Place.

In addition to that, we would also ask that the uh traffic mitigation, if approved during this construction times, that traffic mitigation during peak times uh would occur.

And I think Mr.

Mr.

Gardner during our HOA uh has supported that request, but specific to uh bus pickup and work leave times with the additional volume of traffic that we would be planning to see during the construction phase.

We would obviously be heavily impacted.

Obviously, you see from the 20 some odd vehicles or homes that set and exide in the restate estate section of the Acadian place.

There's only one ingress egress point into the main two exit points of the neighborhood, and we believe that would be a major concern.

Okay, thank you for your time.

Thank you for listening to the voices that you I'm sure you will hear from a couple other members of the neighborhood, and again, we appreciate your request to work with the neighborhood in an effort to solve this topic.

Thank you.

All right, Mr.

Mr.

Chairman, we have uh JD York.

Name and address for the record, please.

I'm sorry I couldn't do that.

Name and address for the record.

My name is Judy York.

Uh my address is 3690 River Bluff Drive.

Just for reference, uh, the lot you were all talking about with the five houses underneath it, that's me.

Okay.

Um, so I have a prepared statement that I'll just go through, but I would echo everything that our homeowners association said.

I mean, my concerns marry up with theirs.

But uh, yeah, a little over 13 years ago, I retired from the U.S.

Marine Corps and was called to come to Tuscaloose to continue my service this time as a teacher by starting the junior ROTC program at Paul DeBry High School.

That's where I remain employed today.

Uh after moving here, we had to rent a small home while we searched for a house large enough to accommodate our large family of nine, in addition to my ailing mother, whom we had become her caregiver for.

We finally found our current home that we've mentioned, and we're able to buy it and move in at the end of 2013.

While purchasing homes are major investment for all home buyers, ours was probably a bit more than most.

Our home is the largest in the subdivision, and it sits on a two-acre lot, and it comprises the vast majority of my net worth.

We've done improvements to the property through additions that enabled us to care for our homebound parents and enable them a better quality of life.

Our latest tax assessment place the value at over 1.1 million, whatever that's worth.

And realtors told us privately that it could be worth substantially more.

What is given the property its value, however, is not so much the size or but it's the location.

It's located at the very end of the subdivision at the end of River Bluff Drive.

So it's very private, and there's essentially no traffic.

Our home is bordered in the back by 36 acres of woodland that stretches all the way to Lexington Downs.

And to the left of the property that we're discussing, what was 40 plus acres of forest trusted all the way to the Black Warrior River.

Our only neighbors to our right, and who also has a two-acre lot, which they have kept wooded, so the overall feel is that you're not even in a subdivision.

It's very private, very secluded.

It's a great place.

The privacy, lack of traffic in the green wooded field of property added significantly to the value of our home.

The current plan is published would greatly diminish the value of our property.

The extension of the road would increase traffic moving in front of our home.

I say 60 fold.

I got no traffic now.

Obviously, I'm gonna have a lot of traffic after that.

Uh at a minimum, and it'll likely be more once all the homes are constructed.

The green spaces as they currently exist around our property would undoubtedly be further altered and removed, and it continued to diminish the desirability of the location.

Most concerning, however, is the new developments lot sizes as proposed, as they are not in keeping with the character of our River Bluff neighborhood.

The proposal has five lots adjacent to me that are significantly smaller than any lot in River Bluff, and it would still be smaller than my lot if you combine all of them.

I think about 101.5 acres altogether.

This would put five separate homes directly on our southern property line at a higher elevation than our lot, and essentially destroying any sense of privacy and forever altering the way that we were able to enjoy our property.

There's been no communication put forth by the owners in regards to the proposed covenants or construction specifications that they would be doing for the new construction.

So it's impossible for us to know what the size and character of these new homes would be and what further detriment it could cause to our property value.

I also have concerns regarding potential drainage issues from the new development resulting from its higher elevation to our property.

Our property is actually sloping in the back half of it.

In the past, I had to make arrangements with the Westerveld Company, the previous owners of the property in question to prevent erosion into our backyard from the runoff.

A situation which will now likely worsen once you clear all the vegetation for the proposed sites.

With that said, I believe that there are potential solutions to lessen the impact of the new development on our property, and I would like to discuss with its owners.

Unfortunately, they have not reached out to us, and I've been unable to make contact with them despite repeated attempts.

I fully support their rights as owners to develop their property as they wish within the confines of the law.

And I appreciate their personal generosity to me.

I spoke to them about two years ago when they first started uh building or bringing fill into the property there.

And uh I'd rented the property from the Westerbelt Company for eight years.

It was a hunting lease that I had with them, and they allowed me to keep storing my equipment that I had over there throughout the construction they were doing.

But I believe that it's important to be good neighbors.

And uh I also believe the city has responsibility if they're going to come in that we preserve the value of the people that are already within the city limits.

So with that, uh I humbly ask for a continuance of the approval of this proposal until the concerns uh that we have brought up can be discussed with the petitioners and hopefully address.

Thanks for your consideration.

Thank you, Major Yours.

Any questions?

Not yet.

All right.

All right.

All right, Mr.

Chairman.

We have uh Sandra Jacobs.

Name and address for the record, please.

I'm not Sandra Jacobs, but I think you signed up in error.

Is that correct?

So I will she's offered that I take her place if that is acceptable to the to the board.

Um my name is More Mills.

I'm at 3685 River Bluff Drive.

That's actually the address that is listed on all of these notices and on your presentation.

Um I have a number of concerns.

I echo everything our HOA board says, and I thank them for their fantastic presentation.

Um, I don't have a full written statement, but some of the key issues that I'd like to ask that you keep in mind are the safety, I think is number one concern for a lot of us in the neighborhood.

We have an enormous number of children in this neighborhood.

As has been addressed, we have no sidewalks, and so all of those children are in the street.

Um they have to be in the street.

They don't want to necessarily be in the street.

Um, I support the traffic study that was requested by the HOA.

I would like to request that it be done by a neutral third party as opposed to somebody who the developer um chooses.

Um I would like to ask that the yield sign that is currently at the end of River Bluff, right in front of the neighborhood playground that a lot of children play at.

Um I would like to ask that the yield sign that is currently at the end of River Bluff, right in front of the neighborhood playground that a lot of children play at, that's also at a roundabout, um, be upgraded at least during construction and potentially permanently to a stop sign already, only with 20 houses in the river bluff section.

We already have traffic problems there, right in front of the playground.

So the developer is proposing to increase from 20 houses to an additional 30, so more than doubling, or 150% here with already we have problems there.

So I'd like that change to a stop sign.

Um and some commitment to fixing any road damage that is caused during the construction phase, not just that post-construction, but also throughout.

We all experienced a lot of the problems that went on during the McRights um projects that happened down McRights.

Our section has still not been repaved.

We had a lot of potholes, so I don't think it's sufficient to wait until all of the construction, which could potentially be years is done.

We need things like that fixed and addressed throughout.

Um, even just the debris that's going to be left with.

I think Doug had mentioned the number of trips up and down.

If there's rocks throughout throughout the streets throughout the neighborhood, not only does that pose a problem for windshields, which somebody at our recent HOA meeting had addressed um some problems they've had with the McRights problem with um the McRights repaving with cracked windshields, and they were not able to get any resolution to that.

Certainly it's going to be worse here with it being confined to such a small area.

Um, and also just the kids that are in the street who are playing on bikes and skateboards.

We don't want them running into debris and obviously crashing.

Um in general, I'd like to request the the city outline expectations for good faith efforts in dealing, and I very much appreciate um the comments that were that were made to that end.

Good faith efforts in dealing with us as a neighborhood.

Again, I'm the property immediately butting this.

I've spent months now.

I work from home a lot, I've spent months watching increasingly the trees get cut down toward my house with never any outreach or contact.

Um my home, which is over a half a million dollar home, now looks out on the asphalt plant and new core and a cell phone tower and a power tower.

People mentioned the value of our house.

That's unreal to me.

Um the deforestation that has taken place has increased the noise, the scent from the asphalt plant.

Um I know we had something put in a couple of years ago that was supposed to help with that, um, and it did a large amount, but um, but certainly this has decreased the quality of our daily lives in our neighborhood in a neighborhood and a part of that neighborhood that all of the homes range between 500,000 and over a million dollars, um, as Jason noted.

Um so I think some good faith dealings with the neighborhood would be greatly appreciated when somebody's oh, sorry, question.

They they did what?

They did what?

What's the noise issue?

So the asphalt asphalt the asphalt plant.

They just built an asphalt plant out there across the river.

It's it's across the river directly from this.

What year to go chemical in that area?

What year do they build it?

Oh damn okay.

They didn't just build it, that's not what I said.

I'm saying that it creates scent and noise issues for the neighborhood that were buffered a lot by that forestation, and now that so much deforestation has taken place, that has increased.

Um I think I'm about out of time.

I could have read some other comments, but I think I'll leave it at that.

Happy to entertain any questions.

Somebody did mention earlier on another case.

Um, one of you mentioned keeping the personality of the neighborhood, and I thought that was a really nice way of phrasing it.

And we all enjoy our neighborhood very much and would like to keep the personality of the neighborhood and appreciate you all um helping us helping us do that.

Well, keeping it a safe place for for children.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I hope we I hope nobody tries to build like a warehouse at the entrance of one of these neighborhoods.

Okay, that's all signed up.

Uh petitioner, would you care to come back up and address some of the concerns of those who spoke?

Uh yes, uh I would.

Um I guess what we need to do is continue this until next month.

Let me meet with the home on the association.

You know, I didn't know Adam.

Um we can't hear too last week in the market.

It was to continue.

I guess we'll continue it to next month and let me meet with the Helmholtz Association and try to you know solve their issues.

If that's okay with the board.

That's that's your request, and in most cases when the petition requests, because I think there's so much disparity between what you want to do and what they want.

But it sounds like you've got some common ground that you work together, you might be able to solve these problems.

Sure.

Like we said, our my biggest concern for the neighborhood is like we said it several times is true.

It's been this is a county property.

And if we don't get the city, we have some regulations, some safeguards.

It's you know, there are regs and regulations we have on the books, and you're at risk.

Um but also we we need to protect those neighborhoods that are there now.

So I think all of them had valid concerns.

I applaud you for asking for the continuance.

Sure.

And strongly recommend you don't come back next month.

It takes two months.

That's okay.

Y'all get to a place where you're amicable and agreeable, and everybody feels like it's a win-win for both.

But you know, there was a little bit of a tone of of that that this neighborhood has complete leverage over whether this this is developed or not.

And this raw piece of land, this owner, whoever he is.

I don't I don't have no idea.

Look, I've I've got a friend that lives in the neighborhood, and I'm all about this buffer too.

But just because someone has a state lots in the back of their lot, this parcel didn't sign up for that.

Okay.

I mean, we they have a they have the right to develop their property.

And when if you drove into that neighborhood and you saw that substreet, you should ask yourself, what is that for?

Okay.

And it goes into a parcel of land that could be developed.

I mean, I just think people to get in a room and get something done.

It doesn't need to start with you need to build them, build the biggest, most expensive houses in the neighborhood.

You have an obligation, and look, you can do your own traffic study.

In fact, you've already done it.

You count the houses and you estimate the cars, and there's your traffic study.

I mean, you can pay somebody, but you know, and you can cram some costs down their throat, and you can cost them some time.

But at the end of the day, you need to get in a room and say, look, they they have the right to develop this land, and we want it to be as nice as humanly possible.

And um, we don't need to be too rich in our demands, or else you know you won't get where you need to go.

I think you just everybody needs to be a little open-minded.

I think there's some things like the buffer and all that, like back up to Mr.

Smith's house.

I'm all I'm all with you.

Um I think that that's certainly reasonable, but but to demand that someone build big expensive homes in their neighborhood.

I mean, what yeah now he did say he's with he's willing to consider going into their HOA, but I think that's gonna last about 12 minutes in that meeting, okay.

I mean the way it's going right now.

But I just beg you to everybody to be a little bit everybody try to wear the other man's shoes a little bit if you want to try to get somewhere with this and uh be good neighbors.

So it's just gonna take that for thank you.

Okay, that being said, uh continuance official.

Okay, all right, commission.

Of course, we have a continuation request for annexation 1525 and subdivision 725 of the bluff subdivision.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye, those opposed, eyes have it.

Good luck.

Should we give folks uh a second here?

Hey, I want to be able to that's why I took a thing.

I don't know.

This is just amazing.

Ivory Bluff.

Oh, how can keep rolling here?

Um, we have another companion case tonight.

That is Ivory Bluff.

This is three parts.

Um, this is our first rezoning petition we've seen for RPD.

That is a riverfront planned development, um, a subdivision for 20 townhouse lots and one open space um and a street vacation.

This is um at um several addresses here, kind of surrounding Fifth Street Northeast, Fourth Street Northeast, um, and sixth street northeast.

Um about one point eight, one point three-acre parcel, excuse me.

So we're gonna start off with the uh rezoning to RPD.

Um you can see here we're right at that intersection of Jack Warner Parkway and McFarland Boulevard East.

You can see those properties today.

There's several single family homes here.

Um, and they are zoned R.

They'd like to rezone from R to RPD for a townhome development at this location.

Just getting some photos of the neighborhood.

These are the homes that overlook 6th Street Northeast.

And then we have 4th Street Northeast and Fifth Street Northeast as well.

This is the proposed layout.

We'll look at this more with framework since this is our first RPD rezoning we've seen at a certain level of development.

You do have to rezone to a riverfront plan development.

They've hit that threshold here, which is why you're seeing this rezoning tonight.

You can see there are several seven, excuse me, single-family residential properties there today.

They're proposing three-bedroom townhomes, three stories in height, about 1700 square feet.

They are proposing an HOA to manage common areas.

Primary materials are brick masonry and cementitious siding, as well as some wood products.

You can see floor heights varying between nine and ten feet.

And they will have a pavilion kind of patio area in the middle that's managed by the HOA.

They're proposing sidewalks both in and outside the development.

They're proposing a 10-foot primary front setback, seven-foot secondary setback for the front, excuse me, and a seven-foot side setback and a zero-foot rear setback as part of this rezoning to a riverfront plan development.

They're only required 44 parking spaces.

They are proposing 48 through a mix of two car garages, one car garages, tandem parking, and kind of some on-site parking as well.

So zooming in on the plan here, starting at the north at 5th Street Northeast.

Those would be units one through 13.

They do have those two-car garages you can see here.

Units uh 14 through 17 have a one-car garage as well as that tandem space at the rear of the unit.

Um, and those units 14 through 17 open up into that courtyard that you can kind of see more here, that common area as well, some additional parking.

You can see those two-car garages are carried all the way through units one through uh 13 as we move farther south here.

Uh units eight through 18 through 20, kind of that same setup, that one-car garage.

Um there we go, and that tandem space there.

Uh moving into kind of those buildings.

You see four proposed buildings and that kind of primary front elevation here.

Um, as we move into the specific elevations, I've highlighted which building you're looking at in the bottom right.

So building A, this is that front elevation.

You can see the finestration is at about 25% here.

Uh building B moving around to the side elevations for both of these buildings.

You can see those various materials, again, cementitious siding, uh, trim, architectural shingles, um, moving into building D.

This is that primary elevation.

You see, there's garages as well as primary uh doors to enter these townhome units and moving to building C again.

That's four units instead of three, but kind of that same uh structure here.

Here's a view of that courtyard and that master plan for the courtyard.

Uh some sample floor plans here.

You can see that two-car garage.

Um now moving into the subdivision.

So again, 20 townhouse lots, one open space.

Uh, you can see they have a lot of remnant lot lines on those existing structures today.

Uh you see that without contours here, and now you can see those proposed lots.

So again, 13 lots fronting 6th Avenue Northeast, and then those um kind of handful of units on 5th Street Northeast and 4th Street Northeast, as well as that open space, and again, here's that site plan.

No variance requests on the subdivision.

And lastly, with this, um, they are vacating an alley that runs through the properties.

You can see that alley and that yellow box here.

Uh, you can see just another uh view of that public alley, staff comments on that alley.

Uh, we did not receive any public comments on this petition.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Well, good evening, Commission.

Jimmy Duncan with Duncan Coker Associates here tonight representing Ivory Bluff LLC Crawford Nixon is a managing member of that LLC.

He's here with me tonight, as is the project architect Chandler Ark over Cash.

Um Leota pretty much covered everything.

One thing I'll point out that's a bit unique about this.

When we started analyzing this site, um it's obvious to everyone in this room that there's some blight surrounding this property.

Um so we had a bit of a challenge with the units that face or that don't face the interchange, which is Fifth Avenue, Fifth Avenue Northeast.

So the units 18, 19 and 20, and likewise with units 14 through 17, those units basically have two front doors, a front door to meet code facing the public right-of-ways, but the primary front entrance, similar to units one through 13, is facing the courtyard.

And so we're trying to do something really cool with the courtyard.

Um Crawford's idea is you know, uh a game day couple that might purchase one of these.

Um the wife goes to the football game, the husband stays back at the townhouse, or vice versa.

They've got a cool place to hang out.

This nice pavilion with televisions, fireplaces, outdoor seating, so it kind of brings those other seven units kind of back to life with an amenity that is right out their back door.

Um these are these units are for sale, as as Leota mentioned.

Um other than that, I'll attempt to answer any questions you have.

And once again, I'm here with the first RPD about seven application.

Back to back here.

So I wasn't navigating the RPD process.

We with staff, I mean, I think that's our first one collectively.

I mean, there was a lot of new stuff that we all discovered along the way, but we work through it.

I mean, I you know, personally, I think this block is a little bit too far removed from the river to be considered R or RPD for that matter.

Um, but I mean I the code's well written and we're able to get through it.

So go go back to the site plan a little bit on it shows the uh I guess that exit off of McFarland Boulevard.

You don't mind somebody.

So Mr.

Rice, this is Sixth Avenue runs parallel to that, right?

That's right.

So the signal is right there.

So if you're coming, let's just say we're northbound on McFarland, going to campus.

Yep.

You're making that maneuver.

Yep.

If you're going to Newcore, or making that maneuver.

So to go in your prop, this probably you're gonna take a left there, right?

On to Jack Warner.

Directly off the interchange.

Now, here's one thing we talked about a little bit.

I know it's not really problematic.

It's problematic, but I don't think it's really affects you and your development.

You know, when people come off of McFarland Boulevard, they're going here.

They're no tourists who have to take a U-turn right there to go on Sixth Avenue.

You know, it's not your problem.

I wish they I wish it had kept that access.

You can say they close it in.

You know what I'm saying?

When you come by back farling, right?

That's that's a mess, but is there these they have access to get on seventh, I guess, would be an option too.

So one thing, Mr.

I let me let me go back and be sure I'm on the same page with you.

So one thing on on fourth that we're doing when this interchange was modifications were done.

Mr.

Gardner and I both had the pleasure of working on that years ago.

Um's fault then Al Dot's fault.

Al Dot.

So at the time, Sixth Avenue Northeast was here when that was a city street.

So due to the complications, the alignment with the the interchange modifications 15 years ago, um, 6th Avenue is effectively cut off.

So that portion was was cut off.

Um, what we're doing with this project just to clean up this mass of asphalt that is simply not needed.

We're gonna build a cul-de-sac here, compliant with our sidewalks to kind of clean that area up.

Um so you've got 5th Street Northeast at the north and 4th Street Northeast at the south.

Um, 4th Street Northeast is effectively a dead end today.

Um 5th Street Northeast, you know, scattered with you know numerous uh apartment buildings flanking that street on the on the east, but primarily rental property.

I'm gonna say 90% of those 10 or so houses, all rental properties.

And I venture to guess that you know the traffic's probably split.

Half of it comes off the interchange, half of it comes off of 7th Avenue accessing fifth.

So I mean, I really don't see a traffic problem.

The only thing that we identified uh potentially is the cut through traffic that this project could create.

Um the solution to that is gonna be we're gonna gate the parking lot on the north and the south end.

You talk about cutting so with Fourth Street being a dead end here, yeah.

So with Fourth Street being a dead end here, one that would want to use the easy route, come off the interchange and get to their apartment building right there, would cut through this parking lot.

Yeah.

Are they already proposing gates on each end?

I think I want to go to the fifth and come on fourth and go crap and turn up go up the route.

Well, and then as you know, you you come on over to seventh.

That's the uh street that goes down the river view bow landing, which is notorious for accident history.

So I mean, I I think predominantly the the interchange at at sixth is the safest way in and out of these two blocks by far.

Get them on sixth.

I mean can't control them coming off of McFarland.

They're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Well, six is signalized.

The seventh and so still they're gonna you know what they're gonna do, they're gonna do a quick UI right there.

No, it's I know it's I mean it's happening today.

I know, but it's anyway.

Something we talked about.

Any other questions for petitioner?

If y'all have questions about the building, Mr.

Overcash will be glad to come up.

I think it looks really nice.

It looks magnificent.

I mean the questions for petitioner.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Anybody sign up?

Someone sign her hand.

She's raising her hand.

Yes, I'm sorry.

Uh Steve and Steve and Angelia Gaddis.

Sorry about that.

Smoozing up.

Name and address for the record, please.

Uh, my name is Steve Gaddis.

I live at 623 Fifth Street Northeast.

Uh I've lived there waiting.

It's my wife Angela.

Uh you know who the boss is, right?

We have lived here for approximately 40 years.

We've seen all the apartment buildings.

We've got approximately seven apartment units within a block of our neighborhood all around us.

Our backyard, our front door, our side, down the street.

Uh the road is already narrow as it is.

Two cars can barely meet going through the UE that y'all are talking about.

That was primarily made because there was a lot of big trucks that used to go to New Core Steel.

They would cut through our neighborhood and go down our street, and they couldn't make the turn at the end of our road.

The GPS was telling them the GPS was telling them one way.

So when they first built what is it, watercrest, their GPS was telling them to turn left, and they were turning left into the neighborhood, and then going down Fifth Street Northeast, and then having to turn back on seventh.

So the big heavy trucks were tearing up the road and you know.

So um there was complaints.

I'm just some of the wording, young professionals and game day residents.

Young professionals to me is someone who's just gotten out of college trying to get started.

My our two boys graduated from engineering at the University of Alabama.

They're both making six-figure salaries.

I don't think either one of them could afford 580,000 at 800,000.

Is that what they're gonna sell for?

That's what the that's what it is.

That's what it says to sell for.

My concern is you're gonna have a wealthy parent come in and buy one of these and put their college-age students in there, and that's gonna be student housing.

The only thing, the only thing I would say is different about that would be is they're they're gonna own it, as opposed to renting it.

So I'm the parent, and that you know I'm gonna own it.

I'm gonna be like, take care of the place, we own it.

You're gonna affect the values of all the property here.

And I see those numbers like we're like going, holy cow.

That would be a you'd have some great comps that would you can then increase your values.

But now game day residents and retire.

I don't know any retirees that can afford you may know somebody that could pay that.

We can't not in my neighborhood.

You know, I'm always amazed by how much money is out there.

Yeah, but the parking still concerns me.

The traffic, you know.

Uh when there's a ball game in town graduation, that still concerns me in that area.

We're gonna build 20 town homes in that small of a area, and you've already got all these apartments with traffic coming in and out now.

So listen, someone can record what Mr.

Overcash Grows, you need to let them build it.

And I'm and I'm concerned what's what's that gonna do to my property value?

Is that gonna increase to it?

We're we're right there.

Where that is next to the units 14 through 17, we're right beside 17.

Yeah, we're the existing house.

So when I open my when I open my front door, that's what I'm gonna see is a three-story skyscraper.

Your house faces bases fifth straight north.

Okay, you're not gonna look at the front door and be you know, my living room is gonna our living room window is going to face those well.

We'll hear that's a great question to ask about their buffering.

So yeah, and from what I get, they're gonna build a rock of concrete wall that's gonna do for around the pavilion, but like from where my house is, like the corner into the thing, I don't see but green space.

Yeah, that's well, I want to ask them that.

They'll address that.

Okay.

But I I just have mainly, I know they're gonna build it.

It's I mean, as we say, we've got apartments all around us.

Um what is the difference in an R and an RPD?

I didn't understand that.

River front plan development, right?

Yeah, so essentially, um what does that affect my house?

Right.

So your property is zoned riverfront, but then if you if it's considered a large development such as this, then you have to go through uh some additional you know approvals as in going to planning and zoning commission and really showing everything that you're gonna do.

But if you wanted to like renovate your house or something like that, that would be a small small development or whatever, and so you wouldn't have to go through this whole process.

So it's not gonna feel like that.

Right.

So extra layers they've got a they've got to provide a lot more detail for us.

It's another form of protection, yeah, especially being so close to our river.

Okay, how it could impact that as well.

So they've they've got clear a lot of hurdles.

Well, you know, we're we're considering retiring in the next year or so, and we'd like to kind of have a small, you know, a peaceful place, and it's been a neighborhood.

Now we're gonna be the only residents on that side.

Yeah, yeah, but you know what block.

This may help.

I agree.

I think this is this is gonna they're about to go up town on you.

Yeah, yeah.

So you think it'll increase that those prices?

Yeah, yeah.

These two guys right here, they they they do some nice stuff.

Yeah, we we we see the developers a lot, and they you can you ought to ask them a couple of places they've done in town and go look at them.

They've historically done a very nice projecting job on houses they're building, and they're and they are selling them, and that's that would give me a lot of peace that they're for sale prior, not it and the design, the plans to tell you it's really not gonna be a park.

I listen, I rented one of these houses when I was in college, and we were it was such a broke bro broke bunch of people that lived over there.

We knocked out a window, we couldn't afford to replace it, and we just froze.

I mean, it is a great area to live in.

It's it's central location.

It's a live and let live area.

Just close to both of us grew locations.

And as for me, I have lived there for 64 years.

Just gonna point that out.

I I tell people I moved far away from home across the street one house down.

So I was there when I was there before the apartment.

Let's just put it that away.

Uh there used to be uh orchards in the neighborhood.

There's not anymore.

Um I do have one thing, and again, it's I don't understand.

It's not that I'm complaining or anything.

I don't understand.

Is it says the town home units will not contain fire protection systems with the thing being close to my house?

What does that mean?

Well, nothing you've got near you has them now.

I promise you that.

I'll let the architect answer that.

It's probably because it probably has separation wall in between them and doesn't require a sprinkler system.

I'm assuming.

Is that that'd be a nod?

It's not required.

Because you're doing separation walls, and yeah, so they don't they're not required.

Use the project sprinkler systems.

Oh, so it just means they're not gonna have sprinkler systems.

They're building firewalls, hectares.

Oh, yeah, 100%.

Okay.

I'm just confused, and that was the reason.

That's why you're here.

Beside our house where the single garages are, where there's like for two cars, if they have guests or any extra family that comes, where do those extra cars where are they gonna park?

Where the pavilions are.

Yeah, these are all good questions that maybe these guys can answer for us.

That's a real good question.

Anybody, I mean, but don't we we want you to finish your notion?

I have one more thing, and really it's for talk to the map.

They had something that talked us in the microphones.

We all could hear it on the record.

Well, I do have one thing.

It's in it again, it's gonna be for them to answer.

But you see on our street, which is the 50th Street Northeast, you've got the tandem driveway going, and then you got that one that's going this away.

Kind of like a joint driveway.

It's making a loop this way.

So if you're coming off of 6th Avenue Northeast, then you're gonna have to swing wide to get into it.

If they curved it going that away, it'd be curved towards 6th Avenue Northeast in MacFarlane.

And I think it'd be easier for them to get in.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Unless they come up this the hill.

Okay.

But that's just that was just the thing.

And I would be willing to figure out some other way so I don't have to make the U-turn right there every day.

And I would also, since you brought that, that stop sign be brought down because where it's at right now, you can't see traffic coming off of McFarland.

And people tend to straight Yeah, they don't even stop, they just go straight through.

Yeah, they don't even stop.

And I can't tell you how many people run that light at the U Two.

I've never done that before, I promise.

Yeah.

So it's I mean, I don't even know why they put a red light there.

Yeah.

Anyway, so but um good.

I was just concerned with you know how you know how strict they were gonna be about who they sold to and write that check, they're gonna sell it to.

Yeah, hope they get it though, by the way.

Yeah, so that and I was just concerned about our our our property value with it, you know, something like this.

If it's going up, I ain't moving, but I'm happy.

Yeah, so you'll be happy one day.

They will, my kids will.

All right, let's let's I've got some very valid points.

You guys want to come back up and answer a couple of those?

I mean, I do have a question about that side buffer there next to their house.

Where is there?

So unit 17.

Mr.

Wright, these are compliance setbacks.

There's no buffer requirement here, but to the the point about the wall, this is a six-foot tall masonry wall.

The general intention there is to encapsulate the courtyard area.

Um, with the this bigger apartment uh development to the east, it's just to get that area secluded, make it private.

Simple as that.

Um the question on the parking.

So we've got 20 units.

Uh but can't we go back?

Are you you said you're not required to?

Is that mean you're not gonna do it?

As far as this there's no buffer between these folks' houses.

So the only thing required right there is a wall.

And to answer the question, I maybe miss Ms.

Hornsby has.

Seven foot side setback, Miss Hornsby.

Seven foot side, but you're just it looks like you just got grass there.

That's it, yes, sir.

So it'll just it'll just yeah, so that there won't be any separation between their property here.

No, ma'am, other than the seven footbrook of that.

Can we fully develop the landscape plan?

Possibly so, but it's just that in consideration.

Yeah, they're gonna look out the side of their house and see if within seven feet it's gonna be difficult to create a screen wall or something.

We can certainly look at it.

Okay, so that seven that seven foot side setback duplicated again there at unit 20, same thing.

Um down on the south.

So as far as the parking 20 units, which is 40 spaces for the the 20 units, plus the four visitor spaces is 44 that we're required to build.

There's 48 shown.

So those are the combination of garage spaces, the tandem spaces in the eight spaces that flank the courtyard right here.

So we're actually four spaces above what's required by code.

What's your name?

Remember that and the driveway.

We're gonna we're gonna look at that, see if we can improve that radius a little bit.

I think that was a good catch.

Yeah, that job.

Any other questions for petitioner?

I don't think they brought up anything that they just addressed what we talked about, so no reason to come back up.

Any other questions for petitioner?

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Any have any questions for the architect or the developer?

They're here.

Do you care to have a word?

Name and address for the record, please.

Chandler Overcash uh with Overcash Design Studio.

My address is 13538 Vineyard Way, Northport, Alabama.

And I wanted to speak to a few of your points, uh, just briefly.

Um for one, uh the RPD process has been fantastic.

I think it's been great.

And to your point, it's to protect the homeowners, and so it puts us through a lot more rigor as we prepare this, and I've enjoyed the process on it.

I don't want to be the first one out of the gates, but here we are.

Um in terms of the neighbors, the ones that live there who have always lived there and who plan on staying.

In terms of the neighbors, the ones that live there who have always lived there and who plan on staying, I think you'll see that Crawford has put significant investment in the design to do for 20 units.

There's really very little repetition in design.

There's focus on scale.

In terms of the third floor, they're all built into the roof line.

And so this actually looks like a two-story town home, even though it is three.

In terms of the courtyard, I think that was one of the comments.

The reason for the wall is not to be exclusive, but but it will be a loud space.

It will be a game day space.

There'll be a lot of people, and so I think the wall, which is not concrete, it's brick, will actually be to protect the neighbors from what happens inside of there.

So that was intentional to kind of respect that.

Um in terms of fire protection, we are doing the two-hour wall, and we are not doing a sprinkler system.

I wanted to just I know we nodded at each other, but that for the record.

But I hope I hope that the council and the community sees this as a benefit because this is um a lot of investment in this type of design to make it look this way.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Crawford Nixon, 1708 16th Street.

I laughed when Jimmy said that the women were gonna go to the football game and the men were gonna stay to keep the kids.

That sounded right.

Y'all got that on the record.

Uh I actually thought the wall would be a good place to keep keep the kids in the courtyard.

But uh just my experience.

I I do think that it will help your property bank.

Uh if a day comes and I were able to purchase it, I think I'd have to pay more.

Uh but but saying that, um, also my experience with this size uh property.

Most of them don't have a lot of people here.

They become community with who's next door.

So it's uh, you know, it's from out of state, uh, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Texas, wherever, when they get here, they want to see their child, and they become friends with their next door neighbor.

So usually the cars that are there are who they met because they live next door to them and they they they don't come much.

Uh you know, unfortunately, I had a long presentation last week that was uh uh that I made a point.

We we just don't have a lot of parking at those at those townhomes.

It's it's empty most of the time.

Now I can't speak for what's gonna happen here, but we did try to consider uh consider that, and there's uh more than anything, there's real high density all the way around us, and that's one thing that hadn't been mentioned.

Um there's apartments and condos, and I'm not sure if they're in the thousands, but they're well up in the hundreds, and so the pictures that uh were shown to begin with, each of those homes were actually the homes in this.

There's seven homes uh that that will come down, and they range from 1930 to 1940.

So that's the age of these homes.

And so I'm taking seven and I'm putting in 20.

And I know that sounds like a huge number, but it's it's much greater than it is, but it's not a three-story apartment building, it's a three-story, and and as Chandler said, under the roof means that third floor is literally in the attic, so it's not three floors and a roof above it.

So we've tried to do some real aesthetic uh characteristics that look really good.

I think Chandler's done a good job, and uh and I'll filled any question you have, and uh if I can't, we'll try to address it.

I don't plan on coming back.

So might want to take a seat and call it a good night.

Thank y'all for listening.

Thank you.

If the if the cars start over flooring over on the street, then they're gonna start getting towed away.

So all right, we're gonna close.

We'll just have a quick conversation before we start taking some votes.

Again, I I think guys some good questions, have some good answers.

I think I think this will be a great improvement for you.

Um forward.

I mean, these guys have done nice projects before, been very successful, never had any problem with them as far as developers, engineers, architects.

So hope that gives you peace of mind.

That's my my comment.

Yeah, one of them is up for the key of the city.

I mean, how do you get that?

Anything else?

All right, let's let's get some votes going, guys.

All right.

Here's our first RPD 0125 ivory bluff.

Too long to read there, but you'll have a motion and a second.

Motion.

Second.

Mr.

Rumsey.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

Commissioner for F PS 0825 Ivory Bluff.

Again, 20 town homes on one open space lot.

I have a motion to second.

Hornsby.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

Uh Commission.

We have a uh vacation request 0225 vacating 0.05 acres right away.

Public alley.

On said project.

All of us members.

Well, this is a voice vote, really.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

Ayes have it.

Good luck.

Thank you.

I'll see why all those realtors were here tonight.

All right.

We'll keep rolling for the second half of the agenda, folks.

Starting with our preliminary platforms first up, we have S 7225 McNally Fair subdivision, consisting of four lots on approximately 13.4 acres located at 5900 through 6006 New Water Watermelon Road, excuse me, Council District 3.

Can see we're kind of just right past the dam here on New Watermelon and McWright's Ferry Road.

Just to clarify, this is a three-lot subdivision now.

This changed after the legal notice was posted.

This property here is no longer included.

So we're just be looking at a three-lot subdivision tonight.

And you can see that here, those three lots that are proposed here.

There's some existing structures on site to remain at this time.

You can see that without contours here.

We do have four variance requests.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering.

We don't have any objection to those requests.

Thank you, sir.

Petitioner.

Mr.

Chairman, members of the commission, Chris Centel, Centel Engineering.

Uh this was brought before you a year ago, and the fair portion of it was going to be part uh purchased by McNelly, a small portion of it, but the bank refused to let it go.

So we're now back in front of you because they couldn't couldn't make it.

This is the same plan.

Same plan essentially.

I mean, we we altered one right there by the barn, just one little lot line, but other than that, it's the same exact plan.

No changes.

Any questions?

Thank you, sir.

Do you want to care to speak for or against this petition?

Name and address the record.

I'm Jennifer Colvin, um 5937 Lake Ridge Avenue.

Um backs up to our property, and I I guess when we moved there about 25 years ago, I just couldn't couldn't imagine that anything would be past the woods.

Um I and I guess I just wanted to say that it's gonna disrupt our privacy.

Our family enjoys as we look out into the woods, and then the like so where's the wildlife gonna go?

It's just with all the construction all around that area, it just seems like it's drive and the uh the deer in.

Um I don't know.

I just told my neighbors I'd be the spokesperson, and I don't know if I'm the best one to be it, but um I just wish they'd leave it alone.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Can speak to that, please.

Yeah, I'll explain the subdivision why we're doing it.

Okay, uh this is not a typical subdivision where we're building roads, we're not building anything.

This is an inheritance property between three sisters.

Lot two is an inheritance, so they're equally dividing it up.

So we're not planning on any new construction on lot two, lot two or two and a half years a lot.

It will stay wooded as long as she doesn't unless she wants to build a house on it.

Right, it's a two and a half acre lot, so a pretty good pretty good lifestyle.

Largest, very big state lot.

Okay, all right.

Anyone else care to speak for or against I haven't heard none.

All right, Commissioner, before us, we have S 7225, the McNeely Fair subdivision, consisting of four lots, and three.

Uh four variance requests, engineering has no issues with.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion second, Miss Hornsby.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, motion approved.

All right.

Next up we have S 7325, resurvey of Sally Hamner Road subdivision.

This is consisting of two lots on approximately 8.3 acres located east of 14830 Sally Hamner Road and north of 1475 Sally Hamner Road.

This is not in city limits.

You can see we're kind of sandwiched between Highway 43 and Highway 69 up on the lake.

You can see there's three lots here today.

They are vacant.

They would like to split those up into two, and just for the record, north is now on your left.

We turned sideways here.

So they're splitting those three lots into two here.

You can see that without contours.

Engineering.

No objection.

Petitioner.

Mr.

Chairman, members commission, Chris, Centel, Centel Engineering.

We're combining the lot.

Lot one is combining two lots into one because the only buildable spot is in the dead center of where the lot line is.

We're adjusting lot two are so you can build a barn too.

And septic is already in place.

Any questions for petitioner?

Anyone cares speak for or against this petition request?

Having heard none, commission before us, we have the resurvey of Salahana Road subdivision.

S 7325, one Barrance Request Cap sewer.

Engineering has no issues with.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Mr.

Rumsey.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

All right.

Next up we have S 7425 Melon Melvin, excuse me, subdivision, consisting of two lots on approximately 0.72 acres, located at 3525 Open Road, Council District 3.

You can see we're kind of in the same area as we were earlier, north of the Black Warrior River, off of McWright's Ferry Road.

You can see this existing lot today does have one structure on it.

They'd like to split that lot into two, as you can see here.

Um, those second lot created, and you see that again without contours.

Uh, they do have a cap sewer variance.

There is not sewer in this area, though it is in city limits.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering, no objections.

Petitioner.

Uh Mr.

Chairman, members of the commission, Marty Montgomery, Gummer Hank on Land Survey, uh representing Melvin, uh Bruce Melvin on this two-lot subdivision.

Uh Mr.

Melvin was trying to give his uh sister-in-law that piece portion of property, and with it being in city limits, it had to be a subdivision.

And uh they couldn't go into that subdivision because of their mortgage on their house.

It was gonna cost them too much money to just come out and do it.

So this was the best way to make that lot, they're not wanting to build on it, and uh they just want it there for uh their use.

So they we made it a standalone lot to Acadian place.

Stick around for that.

Lucky you about that.

Any questions for petitioner?

Well, I mean, I'm just curious.

I mean, on this on the plaid, it looks like the swimming pool is all within the lot, but that Google map picture, aerial view.

I swear it looked like the pool was into lot 13 of Acadian.

Those are never those are never.

They're all okay.

Good.

I do have a question.

I mean, it is the pool that on the property line, like I mean the fiscal, it's back there at it.

There's no there's no uh from a city standpoint.

That's the idea of any kind of setback concern or anything.

They're probably there first, weren't they?

I'm just I'm just curious for future reference.

It would be non-conforming.

Okay, that's why, yeah.

Okay, so it's there now.

All right, any questions for petitioner?

Thank you, Martha.

Anyone care to speak for or against this petition request?

Having heard none commission before us, we have the Melbourne subdivision S 7425, one bearance request capsule engineering has no issues with a motion and a second.

Motion Miss Hornsby.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, you can be in on before we get there.

You can be in our before we get there.

I go to the restaurant.

You can talk fast.

Let's get it done.

All right.

Next up, we have S 7725 resurvey of lots 17 and 18 Edgewater, phase 1B, consisting of two lots on approximately 2.19 acres, located at 1492 and 14930 Edgewater Drive.

This is not in city limits.

You can see again we're kind of uh sandwiched between highway 43 and highway 69 on the river.

There are two lots here today.

They are just readjusting that middle lot line in between them.

Uh it's kind of more clear here.

I'll I'll draw here that is the existing lot line, roughly uh there, just readjusting that middle lot line between the two properties.

They do have a variance request.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering.

No issues.

Petitioner.

Sorry.

I've been sitting here still.

Hey, I'm Diane Darden.

I am lot 18, um, 14930 Edgewater Drive.

My neighbor Thomas and Katie Brown uh could not be here tonight.

He said that I could call him if you guys need to talk to him.

Um we're just simply moving it over.

That that area is basically somewhat of a cliff.

Um, UPS, FedEx, and the US Postal Service will not deliver our stuff down the driveway, so we just simply want to make a little more area where they can turn around.

That's um and Thomas and Katie are actually donating this property to us.

So you mean the road falls off so much it scares the FedEx guy?

Well, weekend guys will come down, weekday guys won't.

Uh U.S.

postal delivery girl will never come down here.

So she leaves all of our valuable uh deliveries at the on the ground.

So like that, are you gonna widen that driveway there?

Or is it our is that driveway widened there for them to do that?

Where if you can see where's can you mark can I do that?

Can your neighbors owe you a favor by the way for sitting through three hours of can I mark?

Yeah, okay.

Let me see if I can see it.

All right, so let's see.

This is the back of what we have now where you can turn around.

It's probably 18 feet.

So we are adding our property line actually runs right down the back of that driveway.

That we're the little bit of a turnaround.

So we have are moving it over.

That is what we're adding.

Okay, and maybe it I think there's a tiny bit that goes right through there.

So it still leaves over an acre for Thomas and Katie, and it adds us just a I forgot how many square feet, but now we will be able to extend that.

Yeah, where they can actually come down, back around, and us too.

We have grand, we I have a mother-in-law who will not we have to back her out.

So that that will be beneficial.

And Thomas and Katie, it's it's just really useless property.

So very nice, I'll do that.

That is nice.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Have any questions for anybody?

Nope.

Thank you.

Anyone cares speak for or against this petition request?

Having heard none, commission before us, we have S 7725 resurveyed lot 1718 Edgewater.

One bearance request capsule engineering has no issues with a motion and a second motion, Miss Mr.

Rumsey.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, motion approved.

All right, S 7825, resurvey of the resurvey of lot one, Tosiali subdivision, consisting of one lot on approximately 2.4 acres, located at 1023 through 1025 15th Street, 1006 through.

I'm sorry, the numbers are killing me.

Sorry, 1016th Street and 1510th Avenue Council District 2.

You can see we are just uh right across from Central High School here, uh, just south of 15th Street.

See that property today.

You all saw this at the beginning of the year for an alley vacation on 16th Street.

Um, they're combining that as well as their two properties to the north of that alley in the subdivision.

You can see just creating uh one lot here.

Uh, you can see that without contours.

They do um have a variance request for sidewalk construction.

That is just for um these two uh dead-end streets here.

Uh we did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering.

We don't have an objection to those sidewalk requests.

Petitioner, uh Doug Varnan, 3200 Rice Mine Road Northeast, Tuscaloosa 35406.

Um, we just want to combine the property to accommodate an expansion.

Any questions for petition?

Thank you.

Anyone care to speak for or against commission before us?

We have the resurvey of resource of this re survey of lot one, Toshali subdivision with one variance request sidewalk construction.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Motion second, Miss Hornsby.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, motion approved.

All right, next up S 7825 resurvey of the resurvey lot to camp subdivision consisting of two lots on approximately six acres located at 3755 and 3801 McFarland Boulevard East.

This is Council District 6.

You can see we're right at the interchange of McFarland and I-20 here.

Uh, you can see that property today.

There's a hotel and storage here.

Um, they're just adding a lot line right here.

Um, to split those into two.

I can see that without contours here as well.

Uh, we do have a variance request for public street frontage that is for uh this lot here.

We did not receive any public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering on the variance request.

No objection.

You didn't draw this, did you originally?

Not originally, no, sir.

Eric, Eric Evannon or TTL, 3200 Rice Mine Road Northeast.

Uh, is late.

I'll take any questions y'all have.

That's almost it.

We liked it.

No questions.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone care to speak for or against?

Having heard none, Commissioner Forward.

We have S7925 resurvey.

The resurvey again, lot two camp subdivision with one variance request, public strength frontiers.

Do you have a motion and a second?

Motion second.

Mr.

Rumsey.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion approved.

All right.

S 8025 resurvey of lot 74G, the gates of Emerald's Edge, and unplied land consisting of two lots on approximately 12 acres located north of 14612 Lake Island Road, Council District 3, and Notton City Limits.

You can see our north on the river here off of Sexton Bend Road.

You can see Leoda.

So yeah, it's a lake, not a river.

Called it a river.

Second time tonight.

You said to me, I know we've been all over the same place.

But you can see these properties here today.

There's three of them.

You can see they're proposing two lots here from those three.

Um, lot one, proposed lot ones in the county.

Um they're giving some land over to uh proposed lot 74 GR.

You can see in um no contours here.

We do have three variance requests.

We received no public comment.

Do you have any questions for staff?

Engineering.

We're in favor of those variants petitioner Robert Martin with Duck and Coke Associates.

Um, essentially just rotating a lot line and get some more property for lot 7474 G.

Any questions for petitioner?

Anyone care to speak for against this petition requests?

Care speak for it against it?

Thank you.

All right, commission last one s eighty twenty-five resurvey of lot 74G.

Uh three variance requests engineering has no issues with.

Do you have a motion and a second?

Motion.

Ms.

Hornsby.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, motion approved.

Anything for staff?

Got a business.