It's June 24th, 2026.

This is a meeting of the administrative review appeals board for the city of Waukesha.

The board members are all present: Richard Hanson, Megan Locke, and Sarah Bondar.

So we have the quorum and we're able to proceed.

This is the hearing of an appeal of an assignment of a an address that was brought by the Boucher group.

The hearing today is in the nature of a sorcerary review.

As I've explained to the parties already, the uh proceedings today are not formal.

The strict rules of evidence do not apply.

The idea is to find out what the facts are, not worry about uh strict rules of procedure.

However, uh the state law says that they are not allowed to make a decision based solely on unsubstantiated hearsay.

Um I need to make an announcement before we begin, since we are subject to the open meetings law, that we will be going into closed session later on to deliberate pursuant to WISTAT section 19.85 sub-1A.

Uh the board will deliberate the decision after the parties have put in their cases, and uh will then reconvene into open session to uh make an announcement of a decision or to make an announcement that a written decision will be forthcoming.

Uh we will go in uh the the order of the presentation here today will be uh the boucher group, the appellant putting in their uh evidence first, and then the city staff will uh proceed with theirs.

Each party will have an opportunity to ask questions of the other.

Uh it looks as though uh the city is appearing by staff members.

Uh we've got Charlie Griffith and uh Brad Bloomer.

Um could we note for the record the appearance for the Boucher group, please?

Yes.

Uh Attorney Daniel Neinheis, the general counsel with the Bucheado Group.

I'm sorry, I should have told you that there's a button on the side of the base of the microphone there.

Okay.

If the green light is on, then you're good to go.

It's on.

Um, Dan Heist, General Counsel of the Buciato Group.

I'm here with our Vice President Pat Myers and Chad Chemnitz from PCI Professional Consultants Inc.

Thank you.

Uh we will swear in witnesses if you're going to present witness testimony, and we will mark exhibits as we go so that they're identified in the record.

So we will begin, unless anybody has any questions about procedure.

Uh we will begin with the presentation by the Boucher group.

Thank you, attorney running.

I appreciate that.

I don't know if you all have received a copy of our appeal.

Yeah, good.

I'd like to it's been marked as Boucher Exhibit one.

I need to remind you that since we're recording this, and that will be our record of the hearing that you always need to be speaking into a microphone.

Okay.

Either at the uh, yeah, right.

I would just like to offer it into the hearing evidence.

Okay, and that's marked as Boucher exhibit one.

And you have those so I can refer to it.

Thanks.

Well, thank you for being here.

Thank you for your public service serving on these uh on these boards.

It's a it's important.

Um this is vitally important to our group, or we wouldn't have brought you here today.

So it's extremely important for us.

Um, and the sole issue for you to decide is 1451 East Moreland Boulevard the proper address for our Nissan dealership that has been on the parcel of land there for the last 40 some odd years as a Nissan dealership.

We've owned and operated that dealership for the last 20 years, so it's always carried the 1451 East Moreland address.

All right.

So we're we're asking you guys to allow us to keep that 1451 East More than Boulevard address.

In their letter that you see, which is attached as exhibit C, or three, I believe, or C.

The city makes an argument, but they try to give the impression that the 1610 Manhattan Boulevard is set in stone.

That that cannot be altered or changed.

And that's giving you the wrong impression.

They in fact state in the letter that requests for specific addresses cannot be made.

That's not true.

And we tried to do that in four or formally, but that was not acceptable to the city for reasons that escape us.

In fact, the guidelines that govern this process show that the 1451 East Moreland Boulevard address fits squarely within the parameters of those guidelines.

And I'm going to point out some important facts today.

That's true.

There was.

Many of the responders, fire and police, they're our customers.

They've been our customers for decades.

No one gets confused.

If there's a 911 call, they're going to say, hey, I'm at the Nissan dealership.

They're not going to say 1610 Manhattan.

They're going to say, I'm at the Nissan dealership and I've got a man down, or someone's having a health emergency.

Alright, so everyone, all the dispatchers know it's at the Nissan store on Moreland Boulevard.

That to me is pretty clear.

And I think that's compelling.

And I think that's almost dispositive here.

Um as I mentioned, the Nissan store, we've renovated it.

We put signage on the store to face Moreland.

That's an investment, right?

It costs a lot of money to build these stores.

And we did it, we did so with the idea and the intent that the corridor there, Moreland Boulevard, is our corridors.

Where all of our boucher stores are located, and everything tracks towards Moreland, and the entryway and the access point is Moreland Boulevard.

Alright, that's pretty clear.

We want to maintain that, and I'll get to some points in a minute here.

But the confusion stems from there were the fact that there were two buildings on the same parcel.

And that's why you'll see, and I and I just I by the way, I just got their submission here.

Um I don't know when it was prepared, but I I didn't get the courtesy of a review of this prior, which I understand that maybe that was not required by the rules, but I would think that knowing that how important this is to us, that you probably should have shared it, Charlie.

But having said that, there's a lot of confusion at the outset of whether it was 1451 or 1610 Manhattan.

That's an understandable fact.

Because there were two buildings on the lot.

So clearly there was confusion by the by their own documentation.

Umce that building was done and completed, it didn't represent the old building.

The old building, because there was a building up by Moreland, naturally, the access point was 1610 Manhattan.

All right, but when that building was demolished, the 1450 or the old Nissan building was demolished, the confusion should have gone away.

And in fact, it it if there's an argument that there's confusion, it's no longer exists, right?

Because there's one building, one parcel, it's been the same parcel for decades, and that building faces Moreland Boulevard.

This uh I'd like to, I guess, direct your attention to something in our exhibit D, which is a drawing from our engineers, and in that they point out two buildings, and I don't know if you can turn to exhibit D in our materials.

I don't want to go too fast here, but if you look at exhibit D.

I don't know if you pulled able to pull that up and yes, you see that and it's highlighted, and and I think this is um really tells of this picture tells a good story here.

So if you look at Moreland Boulevard, and I know you've you probably lived in the community forever, you probably know this better than I do.

But if you look across the street there, there's two properties the 1530 East Moreland Boulevard and the 1570 East Moreland Boulevard.

What's significant about those two buildings is there's no direct access point on Moreland Boulevard, and yet they got or were assigned a Moreland Boulevard address.

Do you see that?

I don't know if you have any questions on that.

I'll pause for a moment and see if you have questions.

Do you see that?

I'm sorry.

Okay, but I I just want you to acknowledge, or you don't have to acknowledge, but I'll it bears repeating.

If you look at those properties, they have Moreland Boulevard addresses, but there's no direct access way.

So I don't know if a first responder is going to respond to the the more the Moreland Boulevard address and not be able to get in that way.

So the safety issue is is really overblown and over dramatized, and we don't understand the rationale for it.

We really don't.

I should just say that I rest my case.

But here that that makes no sense to us.

Our dealership, the 1451, if you look on where you see where Manhattan comes down, there's direct access right where that old building used to be.

So the confusion because that building existed there no longer exists, and all the prior documentation and whether it was 1610 at this time or that time really doesn't matter.

What matters is today, and what matters, and like I'm gonna point out here, our investment was made to maximize Moreland Boulevard, and there's a reason for it, and I'll stay right on this exhibit.

If you look at 1451, but then look just to the it would be to the west there, 1421 East Moreland.

1421 East Moreland.

That's our Boucher Chevrolet dealership.

Okay.

That's a Moreland Boulevard address.

It has direct access from Moreland.

Then the 1451, which is the subject dealership, that's a Nissan dealership, that has direct access to Moreland.

Then if you look at Fort Fort 1503 East Moreland, that has direct access to 1537, the same thing.

So that's a significant point.

I don't know if you have any questions about that.

It's kind of hard to see on the map, so I just want to confirm.

There is a driveway from Mooreland down all the way down to the 1451 East Moreland Boulevard entrance.

Absolutely.

And at the intersection there, there's a sign that says Nissan right here.

Okay.

And just to emphasize that point, we designed the entire building with the intent to maximize that corridor and that exposure.

That makes business sense.

Because everyone drives on Mooreland Boulevard.

They don't drive down Manhattan unless they have a specific reason to.

But they may see our dealership on Mooreland, and that's why we configured the signage that way.

And the entryway and their delivery base.

All of it is angled towards Moorland to maximize that intersection.

And that was at significant cost and significant investment, and a lot of thought went into it.

But we didn't just haphazard any of this.

It was all with the intent to maximize what we've created.

If we're playing a monopoly, you want to get the three colors together.

That's what we're trying to do here with Moreland Boulevard to have Moreland be the Boucher head, you know, our our compound.

And that's vitally important for business reasons.

That has nothing to do with the health and safety, but that's a significant impact here.

That's what's impacting us and our business, and that's why we're here.

Um you have a question?

I do.

Is that a bunch of vehicles there are representation of a bunch of vehicles there in front of the 1451?

Yes.

But there's a direct pathway from that because you obviously want your customers to drive in the lot and look at all the inventory.

So we're not going to make it a jigsaw puzzle where they have to go through a maze to get to our store.

It's direct access.

If I may be excuse for just a moment to tell you, see to make an observation.

Sure.

And not only that, but there's not only Boucher dealers there, but there's others.

I'm not mentioning them, but I'm just saying there are other dealers all along that strip there.

And to me, as a customer of some of them.

It gets to be very confusing to try to drive in where services and everything else.

And there's really nothing that have numbers on them or that I could see.

Well, that's why we have a sign at the intersection of Moreland and the entryway.

And that's why we've designed the lot to make that easier for customers like yourself that are driving in, and we want to flow them into our store via Moreland Boulevard, because that makes business sense, and it's the natural order of things.

That's the way most people are going to access our store.

They're not going to turn right down Manhattan.

And we don't want them to, frankly.

But aren't they going to access that for reasons other than just looking at a car?

Maybe if they had a certain way.

Yeah, they may.

Absolutely.

And we've designed the store with that intent too to make it easy to navigate on the site.

That would be our direct pathway into our service parts sales.

Manhattan Drive?

No.

No, Moreland.

Street.

It's a street drive-through straight to the dealership.

Are there any uh traffic control signals along that area or plan to be any traffic control signals?

There's one on the corner.

Just the one in Manhattan.

In Moreland.

Yeah, there's a four-way.

But I right now can pass all the way up Manhattan to Moreland if I need to.

That's the way it's currently configured, right?

No, our main driveway is Moreland.

Moreland.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Moreland.

Yeah, that's our main driveway.

True Manhattan to Moreland.

Yeah.

You could still access it from Manhattan.

But the main focus of our designing the building, building the building, demolishing the old building was aimed at maximizing our Moreland Boulevard exposure.

That's the whole point here.

Um 1610 versus 1451.

That's the confusion issue no longer exists because everyone knows Nissan as that 1451 East Moreland.

Most everybody knows to access the store you're going to pull in off Moreland.

Um that uh you know you know the proximity to Manhattan of the building itself shouldn't matter at all, and and I don't think it does.

Um, especially when you look at that that's those two buildings across the street that were granted East Moreland Boulevard addresses, even though there's no direct access.

That that to me is uh a very uh a huge fact.

That's a competitor dealership on that other side of the road, isn't it?

Well, there is now that they're redoing that, right?

What was the question?

Oh, this this one.

There's a competitors dealership across the road from us on East Moreland.

No, we're the custard to be uh the Greek, yeah.

Across from our we're on the corner at Genesis, and across the street is the Subaru dealership where the Greek restaurant was.

Yes.

I'm aware of that now.

I'm just saying the buildings exist.

That that could be it's water under the bridge already.

Yeah, but I could see where all that could be a rather confusing situation.

I'm thinking as a driver coming up there, you know.

We have our Chevy store to the west of us, to the Nissan that's been there for the last forever.

Moreland.

The Nissan stores, Moreland, Genesis, Moreland.

We're the Hyundai dealer also on the next property.

All Moreland.

And we want to maximize Moreland if we haven't said that enough already.

Sorry to repeat myself, but I want to point out that a lot of the documentation, and again, I haven't had a chance to review what they provided, but it's important to point out a couple of documents.

Um in the city's own letter, which was probably the first communication on this when uh it said the plan commission approved your application at its June 28, 2023 meeting for final site plan and architectural review for a new Nissan dealership at 1451 East Moreland Boulevard.

Um that's always been our intent.

And the fact that 1610 got jumbled in here is only because there was another building there, and it made sense, frankly, at the time for reasons that I I think have been articulated.

But we have an occupancy permit, and I can hold it up for you, but it's an exhibit here.

It basically says and it's exhibiting in your packet, but it says 1451.

That was the occupancy permit that was issued for us.

Um in their letter of April 28th, the city gives the impression that the uh 1610 Manhattan Drive address is final and cannot be changed.

Um the guidelines allow for specific changes.

In fact, a change should be made here, and the way the guidelines are written, the address development manager on behalf of the director of public works should make the change and has the authority to make the change.

So you, the board, have the authority, but I want you to be clear about that.

You have the authority to make the change or to direct them to make the change.

Um we've already pointed out the numerical sequencing here of the the street names or street numbers.

It it follows in perfect order.

1421, then 1451, then 1507, 1531, 1535, 1537.

It all goes in sequence, so it already exists.

That 1451 is already in the system.

In fact, when we researched the issue, the post office had 1451.

Um we had the other um utilities, city clerk, assessor's office, UPS, yeah.

All everyone had 1451 East Moreland Boulevard.

All right.

Um the same can be said for police and fire.

They have the 1451 address.

Um the uh I again the ingress egress is aimed at Moreland Boulevard, signage is oriented towards Moreland Boulevard.

All of the mapping services, so when you go on Google Maps or Apple Maps or any navigation system, and you type in Nissan Waukeshaw, it'll direct you to 1451 East Moreland, and it'll direct you because I did it last week.

Okay.

Um I think that's significant.

All of the internet searches that you'll do when you type in Waukeshaw Nissan, it'll show 1451 at the address.

Okay, you all Google, right?

And you make searches.

Do you know how hard it is to change what's out there in the history on the history of Google?

To change our Nissan address at this 11th hour, like they want to do for reasons that escape us, like will entail creating much more confusion than already exists right now because when you type in the internet, which people live on the internet, right?

You we navigated ourselves here today.

It's show you know, it goes by what's in the history of the internet, and unfortunately that's hard to erase if you've ever done it.

And I'm gonna point out what a task that is with our marketing side of the business.

But the uh developer manager, the address development manager can notify to the extent it's necessary, can notify all of the utilities, all the other city agencies, everything.

It's just a letter.

There's no act of Congress that's necessary here, it's just changing the address.

And we think it's that we've presented a compelling reason why we should do that.

All right, we haven't even addressed one major issue here.

All right, let's just say for the sake of argument that 1610 versus 1451, it's a it's a toss-up, all right.

And I I I don't think that's true for a minute, but just for the point of argument.

If it's like, oh, why is it so important?

Well, I'm gonna show you why it's important to us right now.

Our franchise agreement with Nissan is the address at 1451 East More than Boulevard to change documentation with the factory with our franchises, and I do it a lot because I've managed all of our dealerships across all of our networks with all of the franchises and all the manufacturers.

They have a team of lawyers on their side that will put us through our paces to change documentation, and what happens when that occurs is they have the opportunity to change the terms of our deal with them, they can impose different conditions, and we don't want to open that Pandora's box with our factory.

That's hugely important to us, and it and all of their records and all of their documentation is tied to 1451 East Moreland.

So that's a very yeah, that's a very big deal.

And I I'm wondering if you have any questions on that.

Okay.

But you're saying that you have to have have this for the factory, so they know where to send the cars, is that the idea?

Well, that that's my next bullet point, but my the current bullet point I'm on is this.

All of the documentation, they have a lot of conditions, shareholders, ownership, dealer principal, staffing, capitalization.

There's a bunch of conditions that they have in their dealer agreements, okay.

And they're like I said, they have a team of lawyers drafting them, and then the address that's tied to the dealership is very important because they assign areas of primary responsibility for dealers based on their address.

So all of the documentation that the factory has issued to us has 1451 as that address.

Now, if we go to them and say, hey Nissan, the city is trying to shut us down, even though we've operated on this site for the last 20 years, because we have to change the address to 1610 Manhattan.

They're gonna look at us and say, Well, we got to change all of our documents here.

So we got to we need now need to redo all of your dealer paperwork, and it's a 50 page agreement that imposes a lot of conditions, and when that happens, they change the they have the right to change the terms on us.

So they you know we have a tenure agreement, now we gotta renegotiate some points there.

That that's a huge deal, and that's something that's lost on everyone in this room.

But you know who knows that the most is me, because I'm the one who has to deal with it with the factory and the lawyers, and and that that that's a that's a huge consideration.

That is um, you know, you mentioned the parts and delivery, it's a simple fact, they could probably change it, but everything is tied to 1451 East More than Boulevard, all the delivery paperwork, all of the logistics, there's logistics companies, there's transport companies, they all are tied to 1451.

You know, we you know you see the big trucks with the 10 cars on it.

Well, that they're all in their systems, Nissan, factory, all that that would all be disrupted here.

Can I just make a facetious point for just a moment?

Sure.

How do they know where to drop them off now?

Because they've been dropping them off here for a while.

Well, it's the same, it's the same address.

1451.

Yeah, it is.

You're looking to change the address then.

No, we want to keep the same address we've always had.

They're the ones who want to change the address, not us.

We want to keep 1451.

They've after the fact changed the address for reasons that escape us, and we think with all due respect, we think there's some vindictiveness here.

I'm just gonna say it.

And I don't, and we've had some issues over the years with parking and this and zoning, but this is this is vindictive in the first degree, and I'm gonna say that, especially based on not getting any of this paperwork and feeling like trial by ambush.

I I don't appreciate that, and and I I feel like we have a decent relationship for the most part, but I don't understand the fixation with 1610 Manhattan because it makes no sense whatsoever.

When you really think about it, you look at the maps, you look at the paperwork, you look at the occupancy permit, and you consider the business considerations that I'm just going through now.

I don't see how you can reach any other conclusion.

I really don't.

Um, like I said, all of our digital marketing with Google, internet searches, Yelp, Facebook, BBB, navigate all of the marketing that we've developed over the last 20 years for our Nissan brand, it is tied to the 1451 East Moreland Boulevard address.

Changing that with Google is like getting the Titanic moved around six times in a bathtub.

It is a very difficult thing to do, and and that that that's a huge problem.

If we have to now market all of our stuff with a new address and can't represent that we've had 1451 for our Nissan dealership that we've done for the last 20 years, that's a big problem.

That's a big problem.

That I think is over, we can overcome that problem very simply.

All right.

Again, I meant I'll mention the website again.

The electronic world, the digital world is all tied to 1451 East Moreland Boulevard.

That history doesn't go away because we've made a change in the address.

That's out there forever.

That creates more confusion, you know.

That that's the that's the problem.

All of our marketing materials developed over years of effort are tied to Moreland Boulevard for Boucher for the Nissan brand.

And and you, as a customer, I think can attest to the fact that if you're a dealer, you want to be on Moreland if you're in Waukesha.

That's important.

And it's it's vitally important to us.

They stretch Moreland pretty tight.

Yeah, just go down the other end.

You got a store way down at the other end here.

I can't hardly get to it.

I've been a customer of it, so I know.

Yeah, so you know why the importance of Moreland.

Um, you know, all of our legal contracts are tied to 1451.

I don't know if we'd need amendments to those.

I know that we have uh vendor contracts like our alarm companies are tied to 1451.

Um they're set to respond to 1451, our fire, our own alarms that we have, our burglar alarms.

That's that's intent.

Um, we've got our fire inspection, for example, passed.

That was 1451 for our new dealership.

Um, DOT license, and they're all in the materials, they're all exhibits in the in my boucher exhibit one, but I'm just gonna point out a few.

And this is a sampling.

I didn't our our DOT dealer license with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation has 1451 as our address.

Our department of revenue sellers permit has our 1451 address.

Our tax registration documentation says 1451.

Our DFI DBA trade name that says Gordie Bouch, or no, Boucher walk walk shovel Nissan of Box shop.

That's 1451.

Um our vendor contracts again, 1421.

But I'd like to pause here and and reflect on the investment that we made in the property.

It's a it's a lot of money to build these dealerships and to build them to the factory specifications.

They chad can attest to this.

They tell you exactly what to put in in every spot of the dealership, and it's not cheap.

And we had the design of the building approved based on its configuration towards Moreland.

To maximize that corridor, right?

And on top of that, we tore down the existing building.

The one that was towards the front of the lot there.

That building we tore down.

If we might not have torn it down if we knew we were going to have all of these issues over 1610 and threatening to shut us down.

That's what I don't understand.

That's a huge investment that we made, both in the new building and in tearing down the old building.

Largely because we want to again maximize our goodwill that we've built up over decades.

Goodwill, business goodwill is tied to Moreland and our brand.

Changing that now impacts everything.

And I and I if I haven't made that point clear, I'm sorry.

But I I think the the final thing I want to mention, and I and I think you've hit on it, and that is that the community, the continuity in the community matters.

That continuity with 1451 tied to the Nissan brand is important to us, and I think it's important to the community.

Okay.

Um I'd like to again emphasize that none of the arguments that you're going to hear here in a minute are controlling.

There's nothing, there's no granite tablet that is marked with 1610 Manhattan, or vice versa.

This is all subject to uh change.

Okay.

Um 1610 will harm our business.

I think I pointed that out.

And I think 1451 is the better, safer, less confusing alternative here.

Okay.

So for all these reasons, we respectfully ask the board to agree with us that we should be able to maintain the 1451 address for the Nissan dealership as it has been for the last 40 years.

It was a Nissan dealership before we bought it.

We've operated it for the last 20 years, but it's always been tied to that address, and we would like to continue that for the reasons that I've said.

Thank you for your time.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.

I just have one question.

Um you've talked a lot about the investment that you've already made.

Have you looked into what the investment would be in the change of the address?

Well, I have not done that study, no, but I can represent to you that it's significant.

Um just the printing alone, and again, changing the infrastructure of the internet is beyond, we can't change a lot of that.

History won't disappear.

Yep.

It will be fine that all the time.

Just getting Apple maps, Google maps.

They're not gonna change it because we filled out a form.

Right.

You know, and it's gonna hurt our business.

It will and then the other follow-up question I have is um I was looking on here, I don't see any pictures of the actual um building from the road.

Um do you have any documentation showing the the building itself from Moreland Road?

It's hard to see from the map, you know, how far of a driveway we're looking at, is it obstructed, anything like that?

There's no obstructions.

Is there not an I would call it an alleyway in front of the Nissan dealership?

No, it's a straight off Moreland, it's a straight shot right into our Nissan, but it's a pass through for me.

If I'm coming in as a customer, it's it's kind of like a pass-through for me, right?

If I turned in there off of Manhattan onto parallel in Moreland there, well, you access it from Moreland.

That's where the signage that says Nissan dealership, so you turn left, you pull right in the store.

You go right directly.

It's it's not that long.

It's it's I don't know, we could probably do the math on that.

It's a straight constructive view.

And actually, we we were able to take telephone poles out because we put them underground.

Now it's just a straight view right to the Nissan.

You don't have to turn left or right, it's straight.

And you'll see the brand side, but you also on the building facing Moreland, you'll see it says Nissan.

There's nothing else in front of it.

And the the showroom is facing Moreland.

So at night when you drive by the lights show Moreland.

You don't come the lights don't shine at Manhattan.

So it was never our intent to have Manhattan.

But you could still do it if you wanted to.

I mean, I'm not saying I would want to, but I get the idea.

Well, it would be driving around the parking lot looking for a car.

We wouldn't want to do it.

And uh we wouldn't want to do it.

And um it's gonna take a lot more.

We're we're not doing it.

I have no other questions.

Any other questions from the board?

The only question I have is I just wanted to clarify.

How were you officially notified that this is taking place from the city?

Uh if you look at our April 28th letter.

It's the 28th letter.

Okay.

That was the first notice we got of it.

Okay.

Thank you.

And that's after we have been issued an occupancy permit, and we we thought we were good to go.

And and and the letter itself, uh, if you take some time to really read it, it again focuses on those two issues health and safety, which I think we've demonstrated that don't apply.

Okay.

And then the other is the confusion because it was an existing building that was assigned, but that was before the other building was demolished.

So that whole issue was on it.

It's uh it was on a house of cards, and it's been eliminated.

So we've been operating since there's been no confusion.

All our deliveries, police, mailmen, they all it's the same address.

That's what we're we're we don't quite understand.

Thank you.

I don't have any further questions.

Anything else from the board?

No.

Does city staff have any questions they would like to ask Boucher?

I don't think so.

Does Boucher have anything else they would like to present to the board?

No, we just would like to reserve our right to respond to anything.

Is that okay with the board?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

All right, then if you're ready, city staff can present their uh position.

Just got uh a couple things as we go up.

And then a letter from the fire marshal.

And uh this is the analysis that public.

Charlie, how many documents are many documents?

Uh three.

I'm not sure.

Is this one?

Oh, it's just this is just the property records.

This one we just had.

Um we have one of a few other things.

Oh, that would be three.

Uh and then I don't know.

Should we just hold on to which one are you going to use first?

Um I've just got a kind of a presentation on just kind of going through the history of the review.

The exhibits will you be referring to first?

It would be this one, I guess.

Uh the timeline.

Uh, and then the letter.

Yeah, we just we got that to them just now.

So we will be marking as exhibit two, the timeline.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

And then the letter uh from the fire marshal, he basically he wasn't here to be able to be here, so he just wrote up a letter kind of explaining his position.

Uh and I that's the only one.

Yeah, that's the only one we got.

I guess he has another one.

Thank you.

Um, and then Brad uh had written up his analysis too, and he was just gonna see lineage.

Yeah, which I wrote on this one, so that's okay.

Thank you.

All right.

Are you guys ready for me to start?

Okay.

Ready?

All right.

So this is uh this is an aerial photo of the the property, just kind of to show you know it's it's a one property with three buildings.

Uh 1421 East Moreland is the Boucher Chevy dealership.

1610 Manhattan was uh previously it had been used for a number of different things, and then 1451 uh East Mooreland uh previously located closer to Moreland at the corner there, that was the Nissan dealership.

Um so this is from I think April 2025 was the last time these these uh photos were taken.

Um the construction had been started, but that's really that's how it's looked for a very long time.

Um this is uh this was submitted with uh uh one of the plan commission reviews.

Um so just uh you know, so you've got another way to see it there.

Uh so 1421 again, the Chevy dealership, 1451 was the Nissan dealership, and then 1610.

Uh immediately before they had moved before this construction, it was it was a you drive it now dealership, another another Boucher uh used car dealership.

Uh so in 2023, uh they submitted an application to the plan commission uh for approval of plans to demolish the uh the dealership at 1451 East Moreland and rebuild another dealership in its place.

So this is the plan that was reviewed and approved by the plan commission.

Uh it was approved on June 28, 2023.

Um that one you can see was uh had an at entrance directly out towards uh Moreland Boulevard.

Uh it had was more logically uh the the entrance from Moreland was more logically directed straight to it.

Uh and then the this is the building elevation, this is facing north.

Uh the building was facing directly towards Moreland.

Uh so at that time there was an addressing review that was done as part of that plan commission site plan and architectural review application uh that went through the you know that went through the uh the addressing guidelines and determined that it was appropriate to continue using 1451 East Moreland Boulevard for that new building.

Um and that approval letter from 2023 that was in the uh in what Boucher submitted uh is that is referencing that uh plan.

So they had determined, I think they had told us that they had determined that that it wasn't feasible for them to have the dealership closed for the amount of the amount of time it would take to do the construction to demolish the building and then rebuild it in its place.

So they decided instead to uh to move the dealership to the other building and then leave the deal the uh the existing dealership open until that one was completed and then they then they then they demolished it afterwards.

So this is the plan that was reviewed by the planning commission in 2024.

Uh I think it was approved on August 28th, 2024.

Um at the time there wasn't a formal request to change the address for 1610 East Moreland.

There wasn't a formal review done because it was uh it was a new it was an existing building.

Um Chad Chemnitz from uh professional consultants who's the the uh uh the person that Boucher has applied for uh all these uh applic these uh building projects.

Uh he had mentioned it uh during one of our preliminary review meetings uh that Boucher would like to keep the address.

Uh I mentioned it to Brad and to the GIS team, and they did an informal review, and what they came back with was basically uh they felt that the direct address was uh to Manhattan Drive.

Uh so you can see I had the circled there, the uh that primary address.

There's also a secondary one further north on Manhattan.

Um the customer parking is right there.

The building, you know, it is angled, but if you know if you follow the line out straight out, it it still is angled towards Manhattan, not towards the uh intersection.

Um and it's the direct uh the direct pedestrian and vehicle ad access is there.

Uh also it's about 350 feet back from the uh uh from the Moreland Boulevard uh entrance.

Um so this is it's just a close-up of the plan that was approved.

Uh again, this is the addition.

So the the uh hash mark is all the new uh new sections of the building that were added, and then the the rest of it is uh had been existing.

The interior, I believe, was gutted and redone, but uh it was a um that was the addition to the building.

Uh so these are some photos from previous uh code enforcement uh cases.

We've had a long-standing issue with not specific to Boucher, it does include Boucher, but uh basically every car dealership in the city.

You know, the our understanding is they have a hard time controlling their inventory, so they get a big shipping in and they have to kind of find places to park the vehicles, and they tend to get parked all over the lot.

Um sometimes, as in this case, this is from the other the property on the other side of Manhattan.

Uh they're parked in ways that block access to drive lanes, uh which can cause an issue for uh the for the fire department, or again, this is also uh other side of Manhattan.

Uh they're parked in customer or employee spaces, and then a lot of the time the employees end up parking in the neighborhoods uh surrounding them.

Um again, this is not this is not specific to Boucher, it's every dealership, but it is an issue that we've had in the past with Boucher.

Um so between the 2023 uh site plan review and the 2024 review, the city had changed the zoning ordinance uh to make car dealerships a conditional use.

So that's uh when uh they came to uh redo the you know with the new plan uh to move it to the new building.

Uh they had it was reviewed as both site plan and architectural review and a conditional use permit.

Um so that this is the approval letter for that, uh, which was issued August 30th, 2024.

It does identify the address of the building as 1610 Manhattan Drive.

Um that's for the approval on August 28th, 2024.

I I really do hope they have a copy of this because it has some conditions of the conditional use permit uh which involved the operations of the dealership.

Um for the building permit, uh the building permit was the we received the application on October 23rd of 2024.

The it included that cover letter or that uh plan commission approval letter, as well as a concurrence letter from the engineering department, uh plan examination review letter, and building plans, which all identified the building as 1610 Manhattan Drive.

Um the permit was just was issued February 6th of 2025 when it was submitted.

There were some uh some comments from the Plan Commission approval that hadn't been addressed, so it took some time to get those addressed.

Uh, and then it was issued under 1421 East Moreland Boulevard.

And the reason for the discrepancy, we've looked into the uh into the records that we have.

It looks like that was a change that was made basically, it was made on February 5th of 2025, right before the permit was ready to be issued.

Uh there was a conversation between somebody at professional consultants and uh our our permit tech who had not been involved in any of the discussions.

Uh she doesn't remember the you know the what it what the conversation was.

We don't think there was any malicious intent or anything like that on anybody's part.

Um, certainly not uh on the part of uh uh the staff of professional consultants.

We just it was there was confusion over the you know the multiple addresses on the property, so it was issued under the uh under the address of 1421 East Moreland Boulevard.

So that's that's the permit placard that was issued on uh February 6th of 2025.

And then they received occupancy February 26th of this year uh under 1451 East Moreland Boulevard.

We think it was a similar uh similar case where the you know they had submitted for occupancy under that address.

Whoever submitted that application had not been privy to the previous discussions, and neither was the the uh person that was reviewing the occupancy permit.

Uh so that was submitted, that was approved uh February 26th of this year.

The since the uh discrepancy has been discovered in our system, uh those occupancies have been changed, so they do reflect 1610 East or 1610 Manhattan uh instead now.

That's the change in the uh when it was when it was submitted, isn't an addressing review or anything like that.

We received a demo permit for the building after that occupancy was was approved, so that was issued on March 18th of this year.

We had some issues with the demo permit with some materials that weren't secured and that were blowing down the street, so that came to the attention of our property maintenance inspectors, and they didn't know what to do with the address.

They weren't sure what address to put it under, so that so it came to the attention of myself and Brad, and uh we started discussions with Boucher at that point.

Uh we actually had contacted them at the beginning of April, and that that letter was the uh formal decision after we had met with them and talked to them a little bit about it.

Um I just have some photos of the dealership as it is now.

So this is uh taken from Manhattan Drive.

Uh the the that's the secondary access onto Manhattan, which is currently blocked.

Uh that's a violation of the terms of the conditional use permit.

So we'd like that to be fixed.

Um this was from earlier this week, so we and we haven't uh had any uh contact with them about it at this point.

But um this is the the what we would consider to be the primary entrance uh uh from Manhattan Drive.

Uh our understanding is that the garage doors there, the overhead doors are the service entrance, and then the you know the uh uh the pedestrian access is there.

Um, and then this is the entrance from uh from Moreland Boulevard.

Uh so you can see the the Chevy dealership, uh the the Nissan dealership is there in the background, and then here is straight down that uh uh straight down that that driveway.

So it does go directly to the Nissan dealership.

There is currently uh vehicle parked uh in the uh in that drive lane.

And again, that was that was one of the reasons that uh we had uh made the change to require a conditional use permit is so that we have some enforcement capability to uh to prevent vehicles from being parked in the drive lanes there.

So I also have a letter from the uh the fire marshal.

He's uh he's on vacation this week, so he wasn't able to be there or to be here.

Uh I can read that to you if you'd like, or um, or you can read it yourselves, whichever you'd prefer.

And then Brad has some more uh information on the addressing analysis.

And I guess just one thing to note, there wasn't any uh we just got the the uh documentation to them.

Some of it was um I put together this timeline literally this morning.

Um it wasn't really we didn't have any understanding that we needed to provide any of this ahead of time.

It wasn't because we were intending to uh to foist it on anybody or anything like that.

There wasn't any vindictiveness.

Um I don't know if you want me to read the letter from the fire marshal or if if you would I think we can take some time to review it at some point.

Okay, not iterate it.

And then Brad has uh also provided is uh a letter uh titled Analysis of Addressing Lineage at 1610 Manhattan Drive and 1451 East Moreland Boulevard.

I just want to take a little bit of time to go through the first few pages just to summarize uh the process of addresses uh in the city of Waukeshaw and the history at this location.

Can you tell us who you are and what your position is, please?

Yes, my apologies.

My name is Brad Bloomer.

I'm the GIS coordinator at the City of Waukeshaw, and uh the de facto address uh development manager, which is a title that's been passed down through uh history in the Department of Public Works.

Um to introduce you to addressing at the city and in the state for that matter, the assignment of addresses in the is a decentralized process in the state of Wisconsin.

It's handled by local authorities.

So in the city of Waukesha, addresses are assigned as an administrative function and communicated to other agencies as needed.

Uh a good analogy to that would be yeah, parcel uh parcel numbers or tax key numbers, those are assigned administratively by the city uh and distributed out as needed.

To assist with the address assignment, various iterations of the street naming and addressing guidelines have been developed.

The origins of the guidelines predate the city's transition to a digital addressing database, uh, but they continue to be used as a reference when assigning addresses.

So the primary purpose of an address number and a street name is to identify and locate a building consistently for public facing and government functions, including navigation and emergency response.

In the city, addresses are assigned to buildings, not parcels, and more specifically, an address is assigned based on building orientation and access, generally by reference to a straight line extending perpendicular from the primary public entrance to the building.

And we choose that methodology because it's the most consistently applied to any building that's being reviewed.

Exceptions can be made where primary frontage does not have practical access to the street which it fronts, such as limited access highways.

So if you picture a Costco that's facing I-94, in that scenario, we would not address it to I-94.

We would address it to the closest access that somebody could practically take.

So when applied impartially and without regard to outside factors, unrelated to the building itself, this method provides the most consistent and objective basis for assigning addresses.

And to go through the generalized building and address life cycle as we see it at the city, the life cycle of an address is intrinsically linked to the building to which the address belongs.

Lots, tax parcels, property boundaries, etc.

can change as there's surveys or parcel combinations, deeds, trading land, and similar actions that could happen outside of the city's control or involvement.

Buildings, however, are built, altered, and occupied and demolished through processes that involve city review.

So to create a new address, what we call an addressing review is performed at various stages in the life cycle of a building.

The second page in here has a simplified life cycle, starting with site plan and architectural review, which Charlie has touched on.

During that process, if there is a new building proposed, the plan and layout for that building will be reviewed and it will be assigned an address based off of the intersection of that straight line out the door with the addressing range along the street which it fronts.

That's only occurs if there's a new building proposed.

Then there is a the address is said to be preliminary.

So in the case of the 2023 site plan and architectural reviews, those were preliminary addresses stating that should that building be built, that is the address that we would approve.

Next, the building permit would be issued, and at that point there's no addressing review.

It is simply changed to pending, meaning the address is being actively built, but so far that building has not been occupied.

At the point of an occupancy permit, we consider the address active and it continues that way through the lifespan of the building.

There may be alteration or additions put onto the building, the address remains active.

And if there's an addressing review, that only tends to happen in situations where new suites are added.

And suites are if you can think of businesses within a strip mall, those are suites.

So if there is an alteration permit, that would add additional units to a building, that would trigger an addressing review.

But for single occupancy buildings, we do not review alteration permits for addresses.

And although there is an addressing review, there's really no reviewing happening.

All that's happening is that the address is removed or the address status is changed to removed.

So the address isn't ever really deleted from our systems because there's still history tied to that address, but it is delisted from our public GIS website and thought to be removed.

So under this framework, an alteration permit for an existing single-occupant building does not by itself create a new address unless the project creates additional occupancies as I had stated.

Next, just a history of addressing at the subject site.

The appeal characterizes the city's action as an address assignment made during the planning and construction phases of this project.

The city did not take formal action to alter the pre-existing addresses of the two buildings involved, and as reflected in the workflow that I just went through.

The alteration permit applied to an active address in building and did not involve the creation of additional occupancies or suites, so no address review was performed.

The address of 1451 East Moreland Boulevard was assigned originally in 1968 when the building was originally constructed, and that address was retired in 2026 when the building was demolished.

During its 58 year history, the structure underwent at least three alterations or renovations and housed a variety of occupants.

Originally Spencer Cadillac, Wild Honda, Wild Nissan, Wild Nissan and Suzuki, and finally Boucher Nissan.

That might not be comprehensive.

We have a two systems that keep records of buildings, one of which uh is Laserfeche, which for fifty 1451 East Moreland Boulevard contains 315 pages of uh archive records, um which are available as an addendum to this exhibit, uh, and 28 records in track it, which is the permitting software.

Excuse me.

So the end of the life for 1451 was uh when the demolition permit was issued and that address was deactivated.

The address of 1610 Manhattan Drive was assigned in 1990 when the building was originally constructed and has not changed since that time.

During its 36 year history, the structure underwent at least three alterations or renovations, housed uh the following occupants originally Gordy Boucher Nissan, excuse me, Saturn, uh the Gordy Boucher Service Center, and finally Boucher Nissan.

Uh because those changes involved alterations to an existing structure, no address changes were made.

Uh, either because of this uh alteration permit or any of the previous alteration permits.

So attachment two has a more detailed timeline of each building.

Again, it might not be comprehensive.

Um 1610 Manhattan Drive has at least 278 pages of archived records and 29 records in track it, which would include permits, projects, and cases.

Um near the end here.

I'm not going to go through the site plan because uh Charlie has already covered that.

Uh just to summarize the uh the addressing situation here.

The city acted consistently in retaining the long-standing address of the existing building and retiring the address of the demolished building.

No formal action by the city transferred the address 1451 East Moreland Boulevard from the demolished building to the separately addressed uh building at 1610 Manhattan Drive.

The applicable reviews occurred at the expected stages, and the address records are being maintained in a same in the same manner as for other projects.

So we would recommend retaining that address of 1610 Manhattan Drive for the structure.

Um if the appeal is upheld, city staff would benefit from clear direction regarding whether and under what circumstances an address associated with a demolished building may be transferred to a different existing building as such a decision may establish a precedent for future address requests based on applicant preference, operational burden, other considerations such as third-party internet sources, um, and these are not previously treated as part of this city's standard addressing review processes.

Um after that summary, the rest of this letter does respond to uh individual inquiries about the addressing guidelines.

I will not go through those right now, but I can answer any questions if we have them.

Questions from the board in reviewing the uh exhibit that Boucher provided, they provided a map.

Um, can you speak to the addresses that they refer to on the other side of Moreland Boulevard, the ones that don't have an egress from Moreland but still have Moreland addresses?

Um you have that I'm trying to I can share it.

Yeah, just trying to pull mine up.

Thank you.

Can you zoom out a little bit?

Uh visible on the screen is the oh thank you.

Oh, that's it.

Yeah, I have it.

I'm sorry.

You're referring to these two on the north side.

I'm sorry, which address are you referring to?

Was it is it's the boucher properties on the south side of East Moreland?

No, on the on the north side.

1530 and 1570, specifically where they highlighted those.

I see.

It's like those are retired also.

Those are uh yeah, it looks like some of those addresses are retired.

Um it was a number of buildings that were replaced with the wild subaro fairly recently.

That's addresses 1560 East Moreland.

Okay, so those have all been removed now with that new construction.

1560 remains.

Um and it is accessible off of Manhattan Drive there.

Um the proximity of the building to Moorland and the nearby access on Manhattan is consistent with how that site was accessed in the past.

And similarly, on the south side of East Moreland, um like 1533 and 1537, those buildings were built uh originally with um there was only a limited number of those buildings in front of it.

Uh so they retain they retain their address from their original construction 1503 1503 uh East Moreland is uh the Boucher Genesis dealership, which was built a few years ago, correct.

So the ones behind it, I know that used to be like a rainbow foods or something like that, um, but that still maintains the Moreland Boulevard address, right?

Okay, but that still has access from Manhattan Drive and Moorland.

Correct.

Okay, okay.

I don't think I have any other questions.

Anything else from the board?

I don't have any further questions, no.

Okay.

Uh does Boucher have any questions for city staff?

Yeah, well, I can appreciate the history, but I don't think it's relevant.

Um I understand that you're applying the addressing function currently if we're trying to, even though during the appendancy of our appeal without our input, I think is a bit disingenuous.

Um but I think everything that they've stated in this addressing function uh applies to the 1451 East Moreland address equally.

Do you have questions for city staff?

Um yeah, I I'd like to point out a couple things.

Um City staff GIS is tied to a physical location, not an address.

Is that correct?

In what manner do you mean?

Well, the GIS system is a point on the map, but it's not tied to an address, or is it uh in RGIS an address is represented by a point.

And that can be changed, right?

There is no technical reason that an address point cannot be moved, or the attributes, including the address number can't be changed, correct?

Right.

I everything in here, the history.

Well, I I don't I can I make a statement or well I think we'll allow time for a closing statement, but for now I'm asking about if you have any questions before the city staff rests.

Okay, but if we could pull up that that photo, I think it's kind of a misrepresentation almost.

It's as if you stood at the worst possible uh location to pick it.

But you'll see it angles.

It's angled the actual dealership.

See, it's angled away from the entrance.

You look at the picture itself.

This one.

Um this one, yeah.

No, no, no, Manhattan entrance.

That is that is the one for that.

That's one right here.

See, that's no right here.

It's angled away from you know, and there's a Nissan, yeah, there's a sign there, you can see it, but it's directed towards Moreland when you come down Moreland, you see it.

You know, when you come down Manhattan, you don't see it because it's angled the other way.

Um, there's also a Nissan sign on the if you go to the drawing.

Oh, I think you have to do this.

This one right there's drawing the one before that.

You make sure you're talking about the microphone too, please.

Thank you.

Yeah, the one right before it right there.

Yeah, talk about that one right here.

Right here.

That's a bad answer.

Well, that's like let's stand in front of the 1421 building and not even show the Nissan.

That's a misrepresentation.

If you stand right here at this entryway, you see nothing but the Nissan dealership.

Next picture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See it says Nissan right there.

That signage.

That's where we want people to come in.

That way.

All right.

And can I interrupt for just a second here?

If you want to make a summation, you will have an opportunity to do that.

But I'm right now it's the city staff's case.

I'm wondering if they are ready to rest, and if they are, whether you have any questions for them.

Otherwise, you will have an opportunity to refer to these exhibits in a summation.

Thank you.

The history when you talk about 1610 Manhattan.

No building was never the Nissan store, was it?

In your history, I think you say that the 1610 Manhattan Drive was assigned in 1990.

And then you go through Courtney Boucher Saturn, Gordy Bouchet Service Center.

But prior to this issue, it was never of Nissan.

That would appear to be correct.

Yes.

All of that was when there were two buildings on the lot, right?

So all of the records and the timeline and all that, there was always two buildings on the lot.

Does that change it?

Your opinion now when you apply the addressing protocols, which I think you've attempted to do here, but doesn't that change your thinking?

Because I think some of the arguments are the way you've applied it, are because there are two buildings on the site.

Is that a is that a fair uh question there for you?

Yes.

Um we review building plans as they come in as independently as possible to any other building around it.

So the address lineage that was developed for this appeal is not a typical part of an addressing review.

An addressing review is as simple administrative function of looking at a single building if it's just one single building, or multiple buildings and the direction that they are oriented on the plans.

Uh and in the case of addresses, it is when it is a new building.

So in this case, no addressing review occurred.

Are you saying we can ask for an addressing review, correct?

Is that something we can ask for?

In the guidelines, there's a mechanism for an addressing review.

Uh this has happened in a few cases.

Um, one of which is where we had addresses that were causing issues with um residents going to the wrong polling location.

We assigned new addresses in that situation.

Also, there is a situation where there is um similarly named streets.

So if you can imagine a 123 main street and one two three main court, there are situations where somebody would call emergency services and they would go to the wrong location.

In that case, we could perform an addressing review, which would essentially wipe the slate clean and assign a new address to uh the building in question.

The specific address, it will be determined based on the new addressing review.

So this building, and as we responded when we were informally asked in 2024, is that correct?

Yeah, umiented to Manhattan Drive.

So while we may issue a new address that might not be 1610 Manhattan Drive, it still would certainly be a Manhattan Drive address.

Well, let me ask you this.

When the city issued the April 28th letter, no addressing review had been done.

Correct.

And to my knowledge, one hasn't been done.

That is correct.

All we're asking for is our an address review that takes into account the fact that the building has been demolished.

Because all this history is clouded by the fact that there was a building there.

There isn't one.

And would you agree with me that the sequencing of the Moreland addresses would include naturally 1451?

That's a fair statement, is it not if there were a building that was oriented towards Moreland on that location?

Yes.

I would dispute that it is in fact oriented that way.

That's the way it was designed to take advantage of Moreland.

That's why that was designed that way.

But the point is there's a need we want folks to come in off Moreland.

That I've made that clear.

That which we're asking, and then it goes down the line 1503.

So it's all in sequence.

So it's an would you agree with me that it is an easy that it would be easy for the city to assign 1451 given the dynamic that that sequencing already exists?

That's what the guidelines state.

Easy, I'm I'm not sure what do the guidelines say that you should create addresses based on the sequencing of the neighboring properties.

It is based off of the yes, the linear sequencing of numbers along the frontage which a building faces.

Thank you.

The GIS mapping.

Would you dispute that 350 feet versus whatever the Moreland or the uh Manhattan distance?

That that's inconsequential.

350 feet, it makes no difference whether a fire truck can access versus that the other access.

That that's correct, is it not?

Proximity is not the primary factor, but when we are reviewing plans for uh addressing reviews, um there is usually a page that shows the ingress and egress possibilities for emergency vehicles, and in this case, there was ingress and egress off of Manhattan Drive and off of Moreland Boulevard.

Well, so you acknowledge that there's ingress and egress from Moreland to the building?

Certainly, yes.

Yes, and it's a direct shot, is it not?

If you drive down that road, yes, you wouldn't have to do that.

And there's more room to navigate on the larger vehicles in the drive line.

Charlie, wait wait until you're asked a question, please.

So it is in fact a direct shot, and there's more room to navigate if you're driving a big uh fire truck.

I am not qualified to answer that.

GIS maps aren't tied to addresses, they're tied to location, correct?

Uh well, the location in this case is the address point.

But it can be tied to the location, isn't that the ACRIT system?

Uh well, it needs to be tied to the location of a physical object in this case, the building.

But the fire truck would be able to get there to 1451 as equally to 1610.

I can't speak to the abilities of a driver, but the routing should uh not be impacted.

In the letter here, you're saying that it's a it's just a convenience for us.

Is it you use the word convenience several times in here?

Business convenience, our preference.

What do you base that on I would say that the we don't know who the applicant is when we're reviewing addresses?

We are simply looking at the building.

So requests made by the applicants if they are established or not, um, are not currently part of the addressing guidelines.

It's simply an administrative function, uh, similar to assigning a tax key number to a parcel.

All right, it's an administrative function, so why are you referencing convenience business?

It seems like you want to reach a result as opposed to applying it objectively.

I believe we are applying it objectively, and it is the we can't take into account factors from the applicant.

You know, I want to go back to that exhibit with the buildings across the street because that to me doesn't seem like it was applied consistently because you've mentioned direct access.

I don't see direct access from Moreland to those addresses.

Would you agree with that statement?

Charlie, can you pull that back up?

Is that still open?

I believe it is.

I just wanted to check the plans.

I can't answer that question without knowing the current disposition of the uh frontage.

That's a historical because they're building the dealership there, but the point I think I made the point.

Um there's nothing preventing the city from applying the addressing guidelines to assign 1451 to our Nissan dealership that has been there for the last 20 years.

There's nothing preventing the city from applying the standards that way, is there?

There's no tech technical limitation, although it could be impacts to systems that do derive their information from the address points.

Would you agree that the address development manager could notify any agency of the change?

It's it's that simple.

We do regularly communicate that information, yes.

I don't know the amount of time it would take for them to process.

So there's nothing standing in the way, so to speak to assign 1451 East Moreland to our new building.

There's nothing preventing that other than the administrative function.

Correct?

Correct.

The only thing standing in the way is applying the same standards here as we do with every other project of the same type.

But those cities they standards could be applied equally to 1451.

I think you made that clear.

I have nothing further.

Any further questions from the board?

No.

City staff have anything to add before we close the testimony.

No.

Okay, thank you.

Um then the testimony is closed, the evidence is in.

Uh what we need now from the board is a motion to go into closed session pursuant to with stats 1985 sub 1A to deliberate.

Do I say all those numbers?

No, you can just say so moved.

So moved.

Thank you.

And is there a second?

I will second, yes.

Okay.

Uh all in favor of that motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed?

Okay, we are in closed session.

We will come back after closed session.

I hate to interject, but I I think our vice president would like to address the board.

Would you mind if I did?

Uh then I won't.

Yeah, I at this point we've closed the testimony.

Closing that we'd have an opportunity.

Well, okay.

No, that's true.

That's true.

What if I just put up that one picture of the straight line into the dealership?

No, you're true.

Uh, you're correct.

Um, Mr.

Nienheis had kind of provided a summary uh in his cross-examination, and so I probably jumped the gun and should have offered you an opportunity to do a summation if you like.

I'll make it quick.

But can we have that one picture of the street?

Yeah, like thank you.

That's fine.

Yeah, I apologize for jumping ahead.

I'll stand for that.

Really appreciate it when it's Tom White brings it up.

Our history, just I'll make a quick our first second store of our group was at Chevrolet store.

So we're very proud of the development and and our partnership with Walkershaw, with the police department, the fire department, with the charities that we're involved in.

And there in during this growth of our Genesis store, the Hyundai store that you've mentioned, and uh now the Kellex store that's under construction.

There's some give and take, obviously, and and and working with our our uh our builders and and working with the city and and and on these projects, and they're all a little different.

And on this one, there are some reasons why that that 300 it is 350 feet, and the reason I know that 350 feet is because when we're doing these buildings, there's there's there's also some cooperation of sometimes we clean up some title issues that needs to be done that that miss through.

under construction there's some give and take obviously and and working with our our uh our builders and and working with the city and and and on these projects and they're all a little different and on this one there are some reasons why that that 300 it is 350 feet and the reason I know that 350 feet is because when we're doing these buildings there's there's also some cooperation of sometimes we clean up some title issues that needs to be done that that miss through but there was one important one that we did on this project on the west side and then on the north side is we were asked in to participate in storm water retention so the reason that it's such a straight shot and and that line there is underneath that asphalt are ponds what's the right word stormwater storage storage on both sides that was 750 grand doing just that so there's some cooperation that we did for that long pathway that's why we know it's 350 feet because underneath that wasn't done in the past there was a building there and then there were some issues so we cleaned that up and with working with the city working with the county on both sides of that dealership we put in storm retention so we could help manage that for all our neighbors and for the street so we're we're we're proud of that and during that process though there's a sometimes a dust up but I'm it since it got mentioned I'm gonna mention it I don't know why this should have been an easy issue I I believe but talking about our our violations on the other property because of snow removal in cars I don't know why you brought it up but you did bring it up and then it was brought up that when we demolished that building that that building that we didn't build originally and that that history is the true it was a Kalec dealership it was a Nissan dealership and then it stayed as an ESON dealership is that was an ISOR and we we were so happy we thought you guys would happy the crush it only took a week but then you come and say there's dust around we we did that but I found that a little humorous of the dust knowing that the history of was it span creek we live every six months with span creek that used to be there so I I really don't know why that was all brought up and I'm not bringing up no but it was brought up so I think there's some hesitation I I don't know why that is but this is a slam dunk because this picture that we're seeing right now I I I gotta ask you fire department police department pulls up where where would they go there's only one property it's the Nissan store right there with a sign that says Nissan lit up 247 where else would you go where would be the confusion I I don't get it and we cleaned it up so that's why I I just don't get why we're here right now is where would they go the Chevy's clearly marked there's not another building on the lot and it's only 300 feet and it's straight through and it's the safest route for police fire trucks not Manhattan it's too small over there.

This is the best shot they have and I don't know who would be confused I really don't where where would they go except straight to the Nissan store thank you.

Okay one more time do you have anything else okay anything from city staff I just wanted to clarify the reason that the the previous history of uh code violations was relevant is because the dealerships not just push but dealerships all across the city uh have we have regular code cases related to vehicles parked in drive aisles um and as you can see from this photo there was a vehicle parked there just earlier this week um so that was part of the reason that that uh we felt that the closer exit was the safer the closer access was the safer one okay then could we renew the motion to go into closed session please seconded all in favor aye please aye okay we are in closed session we will return either to announce a decision or to announce that a written decision will be issued for the the uh statute that you mentioned second okay seconded by Ms.

Locke all in favor of reconvening in open session aye that motion carries go ahead are we waiting for a representative from the city at all are we moving forward I guess we move forward nobody said they were going to come back um I can try texting okay okay should we do that yeah if we want to just quickly yeah give them an opportunity to be here

I think I'm down on the right number.

I'm surprised they didn't stay.

I'm surprised they didn't stay.

Oh, yeah.

Charlie, did you want to be here when the board announces its decision?

Okay, good.

Thanks.

Well, sure, yeah.

Um tell them uh to get down here quickly if they're going to come though, okay.

All right, thanks.

He's going to check and see if uh anybody's coming down, so let's give it a minute or so.

Okay, okay.

Do you want all this paperwork back?

Yeah, I'll collect that.

Do that in court too.

Oh, after this.

We have a meeting after this.

No, tomorrow I am later.

Okay.

Somewhere else?

Okay.

Okay, let's go ahead.

Okay.

All right.

So the board met and carefully reviewed and discussed all of the evidence and information that was presented to us both today and in the very hefty packets that we reviewed.

Um we relied heavily on the guidelines that were presented to us.

Uh in reviewing those, uh, we were able to note that the city has discretion in interpreting these guidelines.

And in using that discretion, we then turned to section sixteen C2, which addresses grandfathering in addresses specifically.

Um in reviewing that, I'm not gonna read the whole section, but the section we relied heavily on in making our decision was the part that states in ordering the modification or reassignment of addresses slash units for occupants in these situations.

They it may pose an undue burden on the occupant.

If the structure slash unit was constructed and occupied using valid permits, and the invalid address does not pose any sort of health or safety risk by making the unit did difficult to locate the address slash unit may be grandfathered in at the sole discretion of the address development manager.

We discussed a little bit as to um what the undue burden here would be.

Uh Bouchase presented evidence as to um the amount of money and investment they've put into building this building as well as the potential of the cost of changing the address.

Um and frankly, there is the potential that there could be a cost uh regarding this address shift uh to the city as well.

Um we also reviewed the city's argument as to uh a safety risk or potential safety risk, and in that review, we didn't find a credible dispute or um health or safety risk.

Uh overall, uh everyone knows where Boucher is located in the city regardless of the address.

It has been there for 20 some odd years.

Um further in our discussions, we then reviewed uh exhibit D provided in the Boucher Exhibit 1 packet, specifically the map um regarding Manhattan Drive and East Moreland Boulevard, and one thing that we pointed out or we noticed was um the application or the rather the non-application of the change in address from 1537 East Moreland Boulevard.

Uh if you look at that on the map, 1537 is located a little further back on the map than the 1451 East Moreland or potential 1610 Manhattan Drive address.

It has a significant parking lot located in front of it.

It looks like there was a building at one point in front of it that may have been demolished and is no longer there, and there is also a second street which looks like it may be Jennifer Lane with an entrance as well.

So in value or in evaluating the application of this change of address standard, um, we looked at the fact that that address had not been changed.

It has an entry right away from Moreland Boulevard and an entryway from Jennifer Lane.

Um, and yet it is still has the Moreland Boulevard address.

Therefore, we believe that there's a non-universal application of this address address change standard currently being applied.

Um all of the evidence presented to us in a whole here today shows that uh there is a likelihood of an undue burden to both parties.

Um since there was or is no reason for the city to have not allowed the address to remain the 1451, I think it was East Main Street address, and there is an unreasonable burden to for sure Boucher um likely the city as well.

In changing the address to the 1610, we do find that the decision to change the address to 1610 is arbitrary, and we are reversing the decision of the city.

This will be followed up with a written dis a written decision of the board um probably in a few short weeks here to come.

All right, motion to approve the board decision.

Seconded.

All in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Motion carries.

Is there any objection to a journal in this meeting?

No objection.

Thank you.

Thank you.