The meeting will please come to order.

Good evening, everyone.

Today is Thursday, January the eighth, twenty twenty-six.

I am Trippy Congo, President of Wilmington City Council.

And along with all my colleagues, we just want to thank everyone who has joined us in Council Chambers and those of you who are with us virtually.

We are going to begin with our opening prayer.

Heavenly Father, we have assembled to handle affairs for our city of our city.

As we do so, we ask for your guidance and understanding.

Amen.

This is a public note for public comment.

There is a Google form sign-up link in the chat.

Public comment will take place at the non-legislative business.

The following legislation is being held this evening from Councilmember Darby, a resolution urging the Wilmington neighborhood uh land bank to pause the transfer of the Gibraltar state and engage in a transparent, equitable, and expert guided redevelopment process.

At this time, we will recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Under God, indivisible with liberty and justice.

Councilmember Owens.

Present.

Councilmember Harley.

Present.

Councilmember Willower.

Councilmember McCoy.

Here.

Councilmember Johnson.

Here.

Councilmember Field.

Present.

Councilmember Bracey.

Here.

Councilmember Cabrera.

Councilmember Hagett.

Here.

Councilmember Spadola.

Present.

President Congo.

Here.

Ten present.

Three absent.

Thank you.

This time we have the reading of the minutes from our previous meeting.

December eleventh, twenty twenty-five.

City council met in regular session with remote participation on the above date at six thirty-eight p.m.

President Ernest, I'm Congo the second presiding.

Mr.

President, I move that the minutes be accepted as written.

Second.

It's been properly moved and seconded the minutes to be accepted as written on the question.

All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carrier would like to recognize Councilmember Willower.

At this time, we will have our committee reports.

December 8th, 2025, President and Members of Council of the City of Wilmington, ladies and gentlemen, we, your Finance and Economic Development Committee met by anchor location and remote participation to who was referred ordinance number 25-069 entitled An Ordinance to Amend Chapter 2 of the City Code to require that all legislation include a fiscal impact statement prepared by the Office of Management and Budget, have given this ordinance careful review and recommend council vote on it at an upcoming council meeting.

Respectfully submitted members of the Finance and Economic Development Committee.

I move the committee report be received, recorded and filed.

Second.

It's been properly moved and second the report be received, recorded and filed on the question.

All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carried.

Now we will have our city treasurer's report.

January 8th, 2026.

Total investments, 576, 189,511 and 83 cents.

Total cash on hand, 14 million eight hundred and twenty-one thousand nine hundred and forty-five dollars and seventy-seven cents.

Grand total five hundred and ninety-one million eleven thousand four hundred and fifty-seven dollars and sixty cents.

Respectfully submitted City Treasurer Dwayne Sims.

Mr.

President, I move the treasury report, be received, recorded and filed.

Second.

It's been promptly moved and seconded.

The report BBC recorded and filed on the question.

All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carried.

I will accept the motion to move to accept all non-legislative business.

So motion second.

It's been properly moved and second to accept all non-legislative business on the question.

All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carried.

At this time, we'll have a presentation by the Wilmington Police Department on the guard in honor of Delaware State Police Corporal Matthew Tyler Ty Snook, followed by a resolution to be read by Council Members McCoy, Bracey, and Spadola.

Going to ask for Council Member Spadola, McCoy, and Bracey to please come forward.

To the Snook family, there are no government words that can meet the weight of what you and your family have lost.

Please know though that the people of Wilmington are holding you and your family in care.

And this resolution is the city's formal expression of that.

Whereas Council expresses special condolences to the family and friends of Corporal Grade 1 Matthew Tyler Snook, who gained his wings on December 23rd, 2025.

And whereas the members of the council of the city of Wilmington would like to offer our sincerest sympathies during this difficult time.

Matthew, affectionately known as Ty, was a cherished member of our community.

We stand with you in grief, and his loss will be greatly felt by everyone who loved and respected him.

Whereas Ty was born on July 31st, 1991 to Matthew and Karen Snook.

He spent his childhood in Bear, Delaware.

He attended Commodore McDonough and Our Lady of Fatima, where his leadership, love of sports, and strong character first emerged.

He later graduated from St.

Mark's High School, earning respect both academically and athletically before attending the University of Maryland on a Division One wrestling scholarship.

And whereas in 2015, Corporal Snook proudly began his service with the Delaware State Police, dedicating 10 years to protecting and serving the people of Delaware.

As a field training officer, he mentored and guided recruits with patience, care, and professionalism, helping to shape the future of law enforcement in our state.

And whereas at just 34 years old, Corporate Snook exemplified unwavering courage, commitment, and integrity throughout his service to the state of Delaware.

These same qualities, along with honesty, loyalty, and kindness defined his life beyond the badge.

Ty was a trusted friend, a cherished son, a beloved brother, a loving husband, and in the role he held most dear, a devoted father.

And whereas dear family and friends, while we know that no words can ease your pain, please know that this hard time will pass.

The Wilmington City Council joins the community in expressing profound gratitude for Corporal Snook's service and ultimate sacrifice.

We stand in solidarity with his family, the Delaware State Police, and all first responders during this time of immeasurable loss.

His life, his love for family and friends, and his dedication to others leave a lasting legacy that will continue to inspire the city of Wilmington and all who had the honor of knowing him.

We extend this resolution as a token of our care and concern in your time of mourning.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the council of the city of Wilmington that this legislative body offer sincere condolences to the family members, colleagues, and friends of Corporal Grade One Matthew Tyler Snook.

And as we join you in mourning the loss of his bright flame, we also celebrate how brightly it burned.

At this time, we are going to invite Ty's sister to please come forward for remarks from the family.

Hi, I'm Cassie.

I'm Tyler's little sister.

On behalf of my family, we just want to say thank you for honoring my brother today.

So thank you for doing this today for him.

Ty was always a hero.

He was an extraordinary person as an officer, but as a person as well.

And if anyone is deserving of this, it would be him.

So thank you to everyone.

We appreciate everything.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Just stay right there.

Any comments from any council members?

Councilmember Harley.

I also like to recognize Councilwoman Kabara, who is joined us virtually.

Councilmember Harley.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

President.

I just want to offer my condolences to the wife of Corporate Snook and to his family.

And I too want to thank him for his courage, as it has already been mentioned, and for just being an impeccable person.

I did not know him, but just reading and hearing the different comments and remarks about people that did know him.

My heart was just so heavy.

Just thinking about such a good person, us losing such a good person, and especially in the field of law enforcement.

So again, I just wanted to extend my condolences to the family and thank the family for just allowing him to serve the state of Delaware.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Thank you.

Councilmember Oliver.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

I'd like to um echo what Councilmember Hardy stated, and I too would like to give condolence to the Snook family.

Um I don't know anybody I do know he was a hero.

I have four friends who work out um motor vehicle who was there that day, and they said it could have really um, you know, he saved a lot of lives that day, so uh my condolence go to the family.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember McCoy.

Uh yes, thank you, Ms.

President.

Uh, I too would like to offer my condolences to the family.

I too did not know the corporal, but um, I just recently heard a story about how great of a man he was in his uh profession that he managed to de-escalate situations on the highway where things could have really gone left, and people recognized who he was immediately when they seen uh his photo, and they were like, wow, one of the good ones.

So I just want to say um thank you for giving him to us for the time that we had him for that you had him.

Thank you.

Councilmember Owens.

Yes.

Again, um, like my colleagues have said, my condolences to the family.

Um, I think when moments like this happen, um, even if you don't know the person, you know what type of um upbringing they had.

His parents raised someone who was brave and who was a hero and who sacrificed himself to protect others.

Um, to his mom, dad, sister, brother-in-law, um, we all stand with you, and please let us know if it's anything we can do.

Thank you.

I would also like to offer my condolences uh to the family.

Uh, first I want to uh I want to thank you for coming this evening.

I know it is extremely hard to um relive everything that you're going through, so so thank you for that.

Unlike many others, I didn't I didn't know uh Ty personally, but I did have one brief interaction with the Matted Motor Vehicle.

I remember walking in and I see this this officer there who was built like Superman.

I was like, I was in awe just because of his his stature and just the way that he just the way that his just his presence was just amazing.

And then I um I had a brief conversation with him because he had you shared the last name of a county officer of a friend of mine, and I asked if they were related.

He was just very pleasant, and he said he's asked that question all the time.

Just a just a very pleasant guy.

You can tell that he was a great guy.

Um, just by the online comments, there was never any negative comments about him or police officers.

Everything was positive, even people that were in trouble with the law.

They said how he just gave them a break, or how he was just a kind person.

Um, so you you know, hats off to you and your family for just uh raising a gentleman and just a well-rounded young man.

And thank thank you again so much for taking time this evening.

I believe that is all of the that's all the comments from from council members.

Thank you again, family.

In the way of other uh recognition resolutions from councilmember Oliver, she would like to recognize the 60th anniversary of Medicare and Medicaid Act, excuse me, in 1965, and also she would like to recognize the National Guard anniversary sympathy resolutions from Councilmember Harley, sympathy resolutions for Howard, Howard L.

Jones, and Jacqueline F.

Elder from Councilmember Oliver, sympathy resolutions for Ernestine A.

Jackson, Ida C.

Queen, Paul and Paul Lanier from Councilmember Owens, a sympathy resolution for Jacqueline M.

Lane and from Councilmember Stadola, a sympathy resolution for John Joseph Desmond.

And then, of course, some all of council sympathy resolution for Corporal Grade One Matthew Tyler Snook.

This time will we begin public comment.

I'm not sure if we have anyone who signed up for comment, either in chambers or virtually.

All right, thank you.

For those who are in council chambers, Deacon Earl Tate.

Happy New Year, everybody.

I hope I hope your holiday was nice, was nice, and you prepared and you prepared to face a new day, a new year.

My name is digging Earl E.

Tate, who's never late because he don't want to lose his parola escape.

And I'm here, and I'm here to say now this year.

This is the year when the election is upon us.

Now we gotta get off our seats of do nothing and gotta get out here and vote because every boat counts, every boat counts, and and and you got to get out here and vote because uh because uh because we gotta do something, do something about this man that is in the office now that is turned tearing up America, America, America is not is not the same no more as it was as it was when we was coming up.

America, America was beautiful then, but but but now but now he's now he's got in there and he made he made a mess of it.

And and he got and they got these got these men that they call ice.

Let them let them go down, go down and protect and protect the the borderline instead of instead of going around here tearing up things, turning up things and killing people, killing people that that that haven't done nothing, that haven't done nothing.

Let them let them go down, go down there and take care, take care of the borderline because uh be because if we want to do something too bad, let them do that.

But but also but also what we got to do, we got we got to come together.

We got we got to come together and we gotta work together to make to make America beautiful, beautiful, like like it was when we was coming up.

And and also this year, let this year let this year be the best year yet, be the beginning of the year.

And and it cannot be that way if we just sit down, twittering our thumbs.

We gotta get up and work together as one.

And starting starting from the city, the county, the government, and all.

We got to work together.

And that and that includes that includes the people, all of the people that that is out there voting, voting for y'all and put y'all in office.

We all got to work together.

Amen.

Amen.

And may this year may this year turn out to be one of the blessed years yet, one of the better blessed years yet.

Thank you.

Next, we have brother Howard Bay.

Thank you, Mr.

Tate.

Is Brother Howard Bay still with us?

If not, we're gonna move to Tony Dunn.

And thank you for joining us.

Good evening, Tony Dunn, 2500 Civic Association, lifetime Delawarean.

Uh I was amazed to see how city council, the members, dedicate time and effort and respect to the state of Delaware.

But it should be the other way around as well.

It doesn't seem to me that the state of Delaware understands the significance of what working together with the city of Wilmington.

And I'm a little concerned about how they are still taking from the city of Wilmington community programs that work for people of color and poor people in general.

And I urge the city of Wilmington to get behind City Council person that is fighting for poor people, especially with the plumber center.

I reached out to the state and uh for those of you who may not have heard and may have been there but didn't share with the community, they met yesterday secretly at the plumber center.

Stakeholders.

My question to the city council members are any of y'all part of that stakeholders.

Because if you're not, then again, it shows us that the state is ignoring you, is not taking you serious when it comes to the needs of us in our communities.

And I would urge you to look into it and to get back with the people in the community in your districts and see why it is that they're saying it's it's essential that that plumber center stays in the city of Wilmington.

We are not going to make it downstate with those people that live downstate.

City Wilmington people do not get along with people downstate, especially in the DOC correctional facility programs.

They just don't get along.

And a lot of you may have loved ones that are going down there or already been transferred down there.

And they're coming to the people of the community, employees, asking us what is city council doing to try to avoid this.

We need everybody involved, attorneys involved as well.

We have some attorneys on the city council that should be looking into this matter to see if there can be an injunction placed on the state to stop it until we can get a full investigation on whether or not the plumber standard should stay there.

And I thank all of y'all for your time.

Thank you.

All right, this time we're going to move to legislative business.

Councilmember Bracey.

Ordinance number 25-069.

Agenda item number 0138, an ordinance to amend chapter two of the city code to require that all legislation include a fiscal impact statement prepared by the Office of Management and Budget.

Mr.

President, I move that be known as the enacting clause of the ordinance and call for the UNA vote.

Second.

Mr.

President, I have a uh I would like to make a motion for a floor amendment at this time.

On page two, delete section two six a section two in its entirety.

Renumber section two six A three at section two, three, six, a two.

And then on page four in section two, three, six E2, delete the phrase the city clerk or the clerk's designees shall note on the record of any city council committee meeting or city council meeting at which the amended legislation is discussed or considered that OMB was not able to analyze the fiscal impact of the amended legislation and replace the deleted phrase with the phrase the city law department, if provided with sufficient notice shall include a statement on the substitute ordinance or floor amendment that OMB was not able to analyze the fiscal impact of the amended legislation.

The news section 236E2 will state in its entirety the following.

Yes, thank you.

Um Mr.

Chair.

First of all, I want to thank Councilmember Bracey for sponsoring this legislation.

Being the finance chair and being a voting member on at least six or seven additional committees that I wasn't I didn't know I was taking on all of those, but I'm very um happy to do this work and to be a voting member on a number of committees.

I get the opportunity to see the um big picture, the financial big picture, um, the operating side.

I know we are the legislative branch, and sometimes we do not consider all of the uh fiscal impact as it relates to the operating side.

So it's it's definitely a different picture when you look at all the different um revenue streams and um expenditures and um and basically how we run our city, so it has been a great opportunity, and so this is definitely a good piece of legislation, and I really believe that um we have had legislation presented to us, and due to the fact that there was no fiscal impact to be considered, um, it was not helpful to the legislation.

So I do believe understanding the fiscal impact is really good governance.

So thank you, Councilmember Bracie, and I would like to be added as the co-sponsor.

That's all I have.

Mr.

President, thank you.

On the on the amendment, can I just make one clarification?

So I want to clarify what the amendment is doing.

It's simply uh in the original legislation.

When we go back to vote on that, it stated that the city clerk would read into the record if uh the if OMB did not provide the fiscal impact statement.

This now requires the law department to include it in the the legislation.

So when they send the draft legislation over to us, the law department will now be required to put a statement in that states uh the they reached out to OMB and they weren't able to get it or whatever, like so.

This is just taking um the responsibility of our city clerk having to read it into the record and making the law department do it ahead of time.

Um so that's the big clarification for what the um this this amendment is doing.

It's just adding that in so that the clerk's not responsible for reading it on the record, it should already be in the ordinance.

Thank you.

Just we need we need to get a second for the amendment.

I second the amendment.

All right, thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Oliver.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Um, I too would like to be added as a co-sponsor.

What um I appreciate uh what I appreciate about the amendment is that um b or the clerk the um the council or the mayor's department, it just will not hold up the legislation period.

So that's a good thing.

So I like to um the if the fiscal notice not on there one way or another for whatever issue, it still won't hold up the legislation.

That was the issue I thought I would have with it, but that clarifies it.

So you can add me as a co-sponsor, thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Willower.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

So I I actually um wanted to talk with the sponsor.

Um we had I want to thank you, Councilwoman Bracie for um bringing this up.

I do think that we on council really need the fiscal notes to be accurate, and it's really important, and and this step is it's a good one, but I still have concerns because one of the things I worry about is is the potential for um this to hold up legislation.

Um I when we talked earlier this afternoon, Councilwoman Bracey, um, I had brought up that this number three, no ordinance or substantive revolution resolution should be listed on a city council committee meeting agenda for discussion or a city council meeting agenda for third and final reading.

Point of order?

Yeah.

We're still on the amendment.

We know that's that's what I'm talking about.

I thought you said this was gonna be eliminated or changed in the amendment, and it's not.

And I'll and I can I can explain to you why, because it doesn't have to be uh after having a conversation with the law department.

I got clarity on on that.

So it's covered under section oh, I'm sorry, Mr.

President.

Okay, it's covered, and we're still on the amendment, but it's covered the part that I'm concerned about is covered under section um 236 A one.

Say that could you say that again?

I'm sorry, Mr.

It's cut it's so the part where you were concerned about it being uh legislation being held or held up because we're going through this process.

One, the law department and uh OMB have 30 days to get us the information.

If they cannot get it to us within the 30 days, the law department will then put that statement on the the ordinance that says that they attempted and they couldn't, and then that resolves that.

So that it doesn't hold us up.

So we're not gonna be held up waiting for OMB.

If OMB does not respond to the law department, the law department is required to put a statement on the ordinance and send it to us to say we reached out for whatever reason OMB did not or they could not.

That does not hold us up from being able to do our jobs.

Okay.

Council Member Willar.

That's all I have for now.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

We have ordered we actually still needed to vote on the actual amendment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But we vote on the amendment, and then we can actually have on the question.

Yeah.

Right.

But her question was about the amendments, which you said.

Yeah, my question, Council President.

Yes.

Um, just to clarify, my my question was about the amendment.

Like we had talked about the amendments earlier today.

And so I thought I had thought the amendment would have that in it, and it didn't.

So it was really clarifying up.

I was seeking clarification about the amendment.

So I was talking about the amendment.

So thank you very much, Mr.

President.

All right, thank you.

So at this time with no further comment, we're going to take a voice vote on the amendment.

All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Amendment passed.

Now we're going back to the legislation.

Councilmember Bracey.

Okay, thank you.

So just to just to kind of give a brief synopsis of what the what which I think everybody at this point understands.

This is just codifying a process for when we introduce legislation.

And this is not just for council, this is on both sides.

So anything that comes from the administration, anything that we're creating that's an ordinance, um, will now have a well-defined fiscal impact statement.

So it won't just be one sentence that says the fiscal impact is de minimis.

We're defining what we're looking for from OMB with that statement uh with the fiscal impact statement, and that should include um and I could just read it really quickly.

Um the state state ex estimated cost or savings to the city, any potential impact of the legislation on revenue, um, statement of any potential imp of any impact on staffing operations or capital expenditures, description of the assumptions used in preparing the estimates and potential impacts listed in sub in this in the subcheck sections.

So it gives uh us a better understanding of what we're doing and how much it's gonna cost.

And it also gives us the opportunity to challenge this, because it's not saying uh that we have to use this fiscal impact statement, but it gives us a better baseline than a sentence that you know sometimes we'll get a sentence that says the estimated cost is 300,000 or 400,000, or we may get something that just says de minimis, and then once we pass the legislation, we're told that oh it's gonna cost too much because we have to add a new position, or we have to, you know, we we have to buy uh new software to do this.

So this takes a little bit of that guesswork out and requires them to put give us all the information up front.

And then the other concern, which a lot of uh uh our my colleagues mentioned was making sure that it doesn't hold up our work.

The requirement is that when we're when we bring this to committee or to the floor, we have done this process.

However, if for whatever reason the law department does not get the information from OMB within the 30, there's 15 days, 15 days to get the information, and then there's another 15 days grace period that can be added if approved by council.

So they can have up to 30 days to give us this information.

If for whatever reason they cannot, when the law department gives us the the ordinance, they are required now to list that they tried to get the information and they couldn't, or that the law OMB said that there was no fiscal impact and explain why.

So it just gives us uh it it just kind of codifies a process that will be in place long after we're gone, where we're now really trying to be more fiscally responsive about uh fiscally responsible about how we're we're dealing with the city's money.

And it also helps us because if we're introducing something that is gonna need in a budget amendment in the in the future, it's nice to know that ahead of time.

So it just helps us do our jobs and be more effective.

Thank you.

Councilmember Oliver, followed by Councilmember Hackett.

Yes.

Um thank you, Mr.

President.

Um, I'm going to vote present on this because when Councilman Bracey just mentioned, I think this is a great piece.

Um, but when you just mentioned about uh it it may it it will never just have a fiscal impact sometime, uh it may just have a fiscal impact.

So I like to see how this works for a couple months and I come back and revisit because I don't want to see legislation held up because it may just have one line that say this is the fiscal impact, but I do think this is a good piece.

But just in case I have to bring something back, I'm going to vote present on it.

Thank you, Councilmember Hackett, followed by Council.

Yeah, I just have a question for the sponsor, and I just want to put on the the record that you know in our rules it already states that all our ordinances need a fiscal you know statement.

So uh as a new council member, I'm just trying to figure out why at this moment in time do we need to codify something.

I don't know if there's been any legislation um in the past that has been, you know, a fiscal uh statement wasn't there, and then we realized that you know we needed something.

Plus, you know, on top of any fiscal statement, I mean, OMB is also giving out guesses, you know, because we never know once the operation starts if something's gonna need to be added on or fixed in that moment at a time to do a budget amendment.

So, you know, I just ask right now with this legislation being codified is the process we have right now not working.

You know, I think you know, legislation since I've been here has been going swiftly.

Um fiscal statements have been on legislation.

Um, you know, everybody legislation that they put forth hasn't been held up, but it this could be coming from a distant different sessions that I wasn't a part of.

Um but since I've been here, everything has been running smoothly with our ordinances.

So I just try to figure out, you know, at this time, you know, why we're doing something like this when it's already in our rules.

Councilmember Bracey, do you want to address that now and doing your final comments?

Yep, I can address it now.

Okay, Councilmember.

So uh two things.

One, uh in different administrations, there are different relationships with council and the administration.

And uh even though it may be in our rules, it's not clearly defined as to what our expectation is for fiscal impact statement.

So fiscal impact statement as it stands right now in our rules could be one sentence that says it's gonna cost approximately a hundred thousand dollars, or it could just be a sentence that says the cost is the minimum.

That's not a fiscal impact statement.

That's not telling us how many jobs we're gonna need to hire for, or if there's gonna be, and this is the there have been experiences some of the council members from previous sessions know where we've passed something and then we're told, oh well, we can't do that because that's we don't have it in the budget, or oh, we can't do that because we're gonna have to hire somebody.

Oh, we can't do that because it's gonna cost software, and that's and we don't know like so.

All of those things that um we're told after the fact, and then it's not done.

And so this is just saying now there's a process, it's clear law department knows exactly what we're asking for.

Um, and they are gonna work with OMB.

And then if we get the report from O and B, it gives us something to question.

So it's not saying we have to use their numbers, but now we have we can go back and say, okay, well, you're saying this is gonna cost $500, $500,000, and here's what you're how you're calculating it.

I would like what what do you what do you why do we need two people instead of one?

Or why do we need to hire anyone?

Can't you reassign someone?

So it's really just to make sure that there's a clear system in place, not just one sentence in our rules that can be interpreted any old way.

Council member, quick rebubble.

Um and I guess uh when we talk about legislation, I think we talk about the greater good of the people in the city of Wilmington.

This is something that uh helps council, the greater good of council uh to be better, and that's why we create our rules so that when we go into our session, it helps us be prepared so that we can do what we need to do.

So I asked, why don't we just look at our rules and advance or edit our rules to be better and be clear?

Because another council can come in for another session, it might not like this, you know, and it's codified or any any kind of situation may go into place.

You know, when it comes to our council and what how we operate, I think that's why we prepare rules, not legislation.

You know, I think more anything, the ordinance and legislation is for the making sure that we do better for the people in the city of Wilmington.

So that's just you know, my comment on that.

All right, thank you, Councilmember McCoy.

Uh thank you.

Uh actually, before I uh talk about the one thing, uh I did have a question about the deleting of section two uh thirty-six in its entirety.

Just wanted to know what was the uh the reasoning behind that deletion of the of the rules.

It was the um the ordinance may be introduced before uh before city council and having first and second reading without containing the fiscal impact statement.

I just wondered why that portion got deleted first.

It was a good thing.

Councilmember Bracey.

Uh thank you.

Um so it was deleted because after talking to staff, we don't need that in there to be able to introduce it to first for first and second.

And so it was just a matter of um we didn't we don't need to be able, we don't, it's we're still able to do that without having it listed in this ordinance.

So it was just a piece that after talking to the staff and talking to the law department, we didn't need to actually have this in here because we can still first and second, no action is taken.

So you can introduce anything for first and second, and then it goes to the committee.

So we don't need to have had that statement.

Okay.

All right.

Um also if I may follow.

Yes, council.

So um I do like the uh the fact that we uh are defining the fiscal impact.

There are many times in other um terms that have actually stayed seen uh pieces of legislation come through, even though we've stated from like the first time I've ran, we stated that I mean that I was here, we stated that we wanted a fiscal impact statement on there.

A lot of times they actually came without one at all.

The minimum might be just the bare minimum that they may put on there if they don't quite know what the uh the amount is, but there has been times fiscal impact statements were almost empty.

The just recent ordinance that I passed, uh, that was vetoed that I passed, it was vetoed.

The first time that uh fiscal impact statement stated like this number $300,000, and we were like, I was like, what?

When OMB had to go back and take uh more like they had to go with a microscope and figure out exactly what things needed to be done in order to get this thing accomplished, it uh it reduced the amount by a hundred thousand, and then if we actually did not have to do the thing, it reduced it by almost another hundred thousand.

So by giving having them uh go back and take a closer look at it, it made it whereas though it was a much easier um, it was much easier for my colleagues to get behind it and also for the administration.

So I do like the fact that we will be a little bit more specific when it comes to the fiscal impact statement and know exactly where all of the dollars are being spent.

And if we still say, um, you know what, even though you say that that's the amount, I still think this is something that we should push for, just knowing what the amount is is very important.

I just and I believe that, and I would like to be added as a uh co-sponsor.

Thank you, Councilmember Wellhour.

Yeah, again, I really want to thank Councilwoman Bracie for bringing this up because I I do think we have to know how much things are gonna cost in order to be able to make good decisions.

And I like the fact that you're thinking about laying out a process.

Um, but I also have concerns about the possibility that you know, maybe not this administration but future administrations, like they drag their feet on creating a fiscal impact statement, and with three in here that no ordinance or substantive resolution should be listed on a city council committee meeting agenda for discussion or a city council meeting for third and final reading, unless they're unless like there's a fiscal impact statement, unless they've done it.

I just worry that that could trip up the whole legislative process.

And I don't think we should get ourselves into that.

So I'd like to piggyback on what um councilwoman Oliver said, and would it be possible?

And what councilman Hackett um maybe also was talking about, would it be possible to try this out, you know, to ask OMB to follow these rules and you know, see if they can achieve that and we get better um you know fiscal impact statements, quality control, I think on fiscal impact statements is like a huge issue.

So get better fiscal impact statements, like adjust any problem, see if the timing is right.

I mean, 15 days turnaround, 30 days turn around, maybe they need 45 days, like test out this idea.

So I'd like to request councilwoman Bracey that you uh consider holding the legislation and that we take an approach to this that um enables us to figure out if is this the system to get better fiscal impact statements that we all agree are necessary.

Um and if it is, what part of it needs to be legislated, what part of it can just happen through rules or just through like um you know policies.

And then also I think we had talked earlier today about you know what is how can we do something um to kind of tighten up in general the process for council getting an idea from um you know idea into being legislation, and I think it's it could be part of a larger discussion, it would be really great.

That's all I have, Mr.

President.

All right, thank you.

I return back to the sponsor.

Thank you.

So first to address uh what council willauer was just mentioning in section three, that that section that you were talking about where it says no ordinance or substance revolutions shall be listed on a city council committee meeting agenda for discussion or council meeting agenda for third and final, I'll you missed the part where it says unless the requirements of subsection A one have been satisfied.

Subsection A1 states all ordinances and substantive resolutions shall include either a fiscal impact statement prepared by the Office of Management and Budget or a written statement from OMB explaining the reasons that no fiscal impact statement could be prepared.

Which means back to what I was saying, when the law department is drafting an ordinance, if for whatever reason OMB does not submit a fiscal impact statement, there will be a statement on that ordinance that says that.

So it does not impede us from doing anything.

It does not hold up the legislation.

And in addition, there's a 15-day window to get this done.

So 15 business days from when the law department reaches out to OMB, OMB has 15 days.

If they're going to take longer than 15 days, they have to reach back out, and we have to approve the another 15 days.

So they have a maximum of 30 days to get this done.

So it's not like this is going to hold up anything that we have going on.

And again, on the legislation that you get, it's going to say fiscal impact statement, and it's going to have the law, it's either going to have it or it's not.

And if it doesn't, it's gonna the law department will state why.

So it's not like this is actually holding up anything.

This is just clearing the process, letting the law department and OMB know exactly what we want, and then we're moving forward from there.

So I don't see, you know, if we are, you know, focused on transparency and being fiscally responsive responsible, then I don't see any like um reason why we wouldn't want to know what the numbers are.

And so I do, you know, I I take all of the feedback, and again, if there are if there are things that we need to tweak, we need to change in the future, I think that that's always possible.

I know that when we had our conversation, council and will hour, we had ideas about other things that we can tighten up as well.

So I would ask for uh the support today.

I think this is just prudent, and this isn't this isn't something that it should matter whether it's this council, the next council, everybody should be wanting to do the right thing with the city's money.

And so I you know, I think that this is an opportunity for us to really be proactive, and no matter who's mayor, we know that we're gonna get the numbers, no matter who's council president, we know that there's a process in place that's codified that has nothing to do with the rules that are subject to change with every council session, but it's just that letting us know that we are really doing our due diligence with the city's money.

Thanks.

Thank you.

And before we go to the uh to the role, council member Owens, you have a comment.

Yes, I do.

Um I I just caught this.

So in section uh A1 it says that if no fiscal impact um is going to be provided that OMB has to submit a written statement, but then later on you talk about law doing it, which who who would be responsible for that?

Because if OMB hasn't prepared the fiscal uh impact report and then they don't submit a written statement, law can't just put that on, correct?

Or can they council member Bracey?

Yes, because law department writes our ordinances.

So part of when law department, so you request an ordinance, it goes to the law department, the law department reaches out to OMB, OMB doesn't respond, or OMB says there's no what whatever the conversation is between the law department and OMB.

When the law department sends us the ordinance, that statement is gonna be on here.

Either a fiscal impact statement is going to be on this ordinance, or a statement as to why there's no fiscal impact statement.

And so when the law department types up the ordinance and sends it to our office, it will it will say, you know, here's the you know the fiscal impact from OMB, or it's gonna say that there's no inform no fiscal impact statement could be repaired, and it's gonna have that on our ordinance.

So that comes from the law department.

That doesn't, it's gonna come from the law department because they're the ones that write our ordinances.

Councilmember Owens.

Yes, I I understand that part, but what I'm saying is this explicitly says that a written statement from OMB explaining the reasons of no fiscal impact statement.

Um that part is where I think I'm getting tripped up right now because law wouldn't be able to provide why there's no fiscal impact or there is a fiscal impact.

I believe that could only come from the financial.

Exactly.

But then oh, but um sorry.

Exactly, but then they have to put it on here.

They can't send it back to us and say, oh, we didn't get, they have to put that statement on the ordinance.

Right.

I I I think my question is what if that written statement doesn't come through?

If they didn't have time to prepare an impact report.

But if we don't get a statement as well, that's I think that's what I just want some clarity.

Then we wouldn't have, oh I'm sorry.

Council Member Bracey.

That we wouldn't have the ordinance because the point is this is setting the this is putting a clock on on on the law department and on OMB.

So they're not, we wouldn't even have the ordinance.

When the ordinance comes from the law department in our inbox, all of this due diligence would have already been done within 30 days.

Councilmember Owens, any follow-up?

Are you okay?

No, sir.

Councilmember Willower, followed by Councilmember Hackett.

Yeah.

And Councilmember Bracey, again, I think it's really important.

I want to emphasize, I think that fiscal responsibility is essential.

And that we all have to be like serving the public and doing things in the public's best interest and managing the city's money to benefit the broader public.

But sometimes, you know, just the way government works, like sometimes the administration thinks one way, and the city council, just from having a different perspective, thinks another way.

And you want to make sure that the working of the city council, which is the legislative branch, doesn't get tripped up by the working of the administrative branch, like unnecessarily.

So that's what I see here, potentially.

Number one, like OMB falls down.

Like they don't do a fiscal impact statement, and they don't do a like reason for not having a fiscal impact statement.

And then like it it just you don't meet the requirements for C because like OMB just didn't do their job.

And I don't think we should set up a situation where council can't do legislation because the OMB hasn't done their job.

Like we have to have some like that's the system works best when we balance each other.

And we don't want like I think this is a good legislation.

I just think it needs to be tightened up.

So again, I would request that we take a little bit more time to work on this, maybe test it out, but definitely take a real close look at the language to make sure that we're not unnecessarily tying up the legislative process so that council can serve the people that elected us that sent us here.

Thank you.

Councilmember Hackett.

Okay.

Councilmember Bracey, any final comments.

I'm sorry.

Um just call uh we'll just call for the vote.

All right, thank you.

Uh please call clerk, please call for the role.

Councilmember Owens Present.

Councilmember Darby.

Councilmember Oliver.

President.

Councilmember Harley.

Yes.

Councilmember Willower?

No.

Councilmember McCoy.

Yes.

Councilmember Johnson.

Yes.

Councilmember Field?

Yes.

Councilmember Bracie.

Yes.

Councilmember Cabrera?

Yes.

Councilmember Hackett?

Yes.

Councilmember Spadola.

Yes.

President Congo.

Yes.

Nine yes, two present, one absent, and one nay.

Declared adopted.

Councilmember Harley may be excused.

Thank you.

This time we're going to go to Councilmember Field.

Yes, she may be excused.

Councilmember Oliver.

Yeah, she may be excused.

Ain't the petition?

We're going to start with Councilmember Owens Petitions and Communications.

I just want to say happy New Year's to everyone.

I'm glad to be back in council with all my colleagues.

And that's all I have tonight.

Thank you, Councilmember Willower.

Nothing tonight, Mr.

President.

Thank you, Councilmember McCoy.

Yes, happy new year.

There is something I need to talk about.

Okay.

We have a an event coming up soon.

Uh we are we'll be celebrating or observing the birth of Martin Luther King Jr.

And they will be having a um MSK will be hosting uh MLK Day celebration at the community center.

It's normally a cleanup and then they do uh projects and then there's also a community celebration.

I'm putting it out there now because uh the 19th is coming before we have our second meeting.

Um please uh take a look at either Westside Groves Together's website or also onto my council page.

So to to see the flyer so you can know the exact time and about volunteering about cleaning up.

having a um msk will be hosting uh mlk day celebration at the the community center it's normally a cleanup and then they do uh projects and then there's also a community celebration i'm putting it out there now because uh the 19th is coming before we have our second meeting um please uh take a look at either westside grows together's website or also on to my council page so to to see the flyer so you can know the exact time and about volunteering about cleaning up so I hope that you know this is actually normally a large uh celebration it's normally uh several different communities districts you know all throughout the area on the West Side normally participate so I hope to see you there thank you council member Johnson I have no matter sniff to support the Westside uh MSK event as uh it's always a really well attended event everybody thank you council member bracey nothing today thank you council member carried out council member hacking nothing nothing this evening Mr President thank you council member hackett yeah I just want to say God bless everybody you know I told I turned one year older you know over the break I'm getting old as we speak you know everybody I'm happy to see everybody new year I'm here you know it's all that matters and I'll see y'all next meeting happy belated birthday birthday welcome back oh yeah we gotta sing to them right yeah you got actually you don't actually I already did it where's the larger he likes singing council member spidola nodding tonight council president all right thank you I just want to remind everyone that we are going to have another meeting next Thursday right here in council chambers everyone is welcome you can also join us virtually if you want to give public comment you can do so in chambers or or virtually also want to give a shout out to uh Jay and Mary Lena and their roles this evening did a great job way better than um don't say that all right I don't know I'm I'm used to having the prayer in Spanish too I know see told me I couldn't do it um I think with that we're going to accept a motion motion to adjourn favor signify by saying I mean we opposed meaning adjourned thank you everyone