Good evening, everyone.

I'm Alan Jones, Mayor of Winston Salem.

It's my pleasure to call to order the meeting of the Winston Salem City Council and ask the city clerk to call the roll, please.

Councilmember Joyner.

Present.

Councilmember Clark.

Here.

Councilmember Andrew Bowling.

Here.

Councilmember Scipio.

Here.

Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Councilmember Taylor.

Present.

Councilmember Hall, present.

And Councilmember Berg.

Here.

Thank you very much.

Would you please join the City Council meeting a moment of silence?

Thank you.

Would you join the City Council meeting the Pledge of Allegiance?

Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the Republic for the United States.

Underground with Liberty and Justice.

Thank you very much.

Our Sergeant in Arms tonight is Lieutenant Victoria Art.

Lieutenant, thank you for being with us and our assistant fire marshal Corey Lambleth.

Thank you for being with us.

Now I recognize our city manager for his uh regular update of city items.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Uh just a few things tonight.

Uh first, the Winston Salem Department of Transportation has been leading a campaign to adopt a formal name for the Salem Parkway Multi-Use Path.

The campaign was launched by seeking assistance from the city's bicycle pedestrian active mobility advisory committee to engage citizens and the community groups in seeking ideas on naming pathway.

The committee's outreach resulted in a list of approximately 30 proposed trail names.

From this list, committee members and department of transportation staff voted on their preferred names.

The top four trail names move forward to a community poll, which was shared by the city's marketing and communications department on social media.

After 740 votes, the new trail name for the formal designation of the multi-use path is, and I'm supposed to wait for a drum roll, but I hope we're going to get one.

The Twin City Trail to celebrate the completion of the historic project and formally open the new Tren City Twin City Trail.

North Carolina, I mean Weston Salem DOT invites City Council and members of the community to a ribbon cutting celebration on Thursday, August 28th at 10 o'clock, located at the eastern end of the newly constructed bridge.

Parking would be available adjacent to the bridge at 226 South Liberty Street.

The Liberty and Main Streets Two-way conversion project is moving northward in the coming weeks.

The areas that will be impacted are Liberty, Main, and Third Streets.

This work will continue through the end of October pending weather to keep that project moving forward.

That'll be a big help when we can get it completed.

For a couple of other events, the planning and development services department will host a series of public input sessions as part of an effort to update the current housing ordinance.

Throughout the development of the Ford 2045 Comprehensive Plan, residents voice concerns about the rising costs and diminishing availability of housing in Winston-Salem and Forsyth County.

One of the key elements of the regulation of housing supply and choice is a unified development ordinance, or we call it the UDO, which determines the type and quantity of housing allowed.

Making changes to the UDO is one of the most effective ways to address the community's housing challenges.

But public input is needed to better understand what changes to prioritize and the extent to which changes should be made.

So again, the end of this month and 1st of September.

The City of Winston Salem also in partnership with some other nonprofit organizations will host Project Homeless Connect on Tuesday, August 19th, from 11 to 3 p.m.

11 a.m.

to 3 p.m.

The location for this event is the Urban Community Development Corporation at 1200 North Trade Street.

Project Homeless Connect is a nationwide initiative aimed at addressing the needs of individuals experiencing homelessness by providing them with a centralized location to access a wide range of services and resources.

The goal is to connect individuals and families who are homeless or at risk of homelessness with essential services and support in a single coordinated event.

So that will be uh this Tuesday from 11 to 300 North Trade Street.

A couple of recognitions tonight.

Uh the International Chief of Police recently held its annual conference where our own police officer, Luke Alderman was nominated as one of the finalists for IACP police officer of the year.

And then uh as he said, sitting right down here to my left, congratulations to Chris Murphy, our planning and development services director on its completion of the public executive leadership academy, a course offered through the UNC School of Government.

The program provides city and county managers, assistants, and key department heads the opportunity to learn more about themselves as leaders and to gain skills to lead and manage change in their communities.

We were talking about it just before the meeting.

I think it's a lot of peer connections there, and uh Chris spent some time thinking specifically about this uh uh the homelessness issue and housing options that we might be taking forward to the community.

I also like to congratulate Tom Kriska, our chief information officer for the city on achieving the city government CIO of the year award for 2025 from government CIO outlook.

And then uh finally, let me recognize Camille French for one more recognition.

Thank you, Manager Pate.

Um, good evening, Mayor Joins, Mayor for Tim Adams and Council members.

Just wanted to take a brief moment to recognize um one of our colleagues that will be retiring at the end of the month, um, senior assistant city attorney Lori Sykes, um, has served with us for quite some time here in the city.

And Lori is here with us tonight.

Laura, if you'll stand up and be recognized.

Are you okay?

I just wanted to take a moment of personal privilege to thank her on behalf of our staff and the work that she has done many, many years here with the city, both for fire and police.

She's been an invaluable member of our team, and I just wanted to ask if we could recognize her for her service tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Congratulations, Laura.

Thank you for your service to our community for sure.

Thank you.

With that, we'll stand ready for any additional questions.

Any questions, Mr.

Pate?

Uh Councilmember Bowen.

Andre Bowen.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, Mr.

Pete, is there any um just kind of updated timeline of the pay study that we uh voted on our last full council meeting uh for the the firefighter um accrual that uh the firefire accrual rate vote we had two weeks ago?

Um I um look at uh Sharon, but I I believe I I know that we are moving forward with having that done uh as was committed to.

Yeah, so uh the HR department is working with Pete Piedmont Triad Regional Council, the PTRC.

Um they're gonna be doing that work for us.

So they are still I I don't know that they've started that work yet, but they are working on kind of getting things finalized, and they are fully aware that it will be um the timeline for it to be done by the end of the year.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

All right, thank you.

Um that our meeting is being televised live tonight on TV 13.

It will be replayed tomorrow at uh uh 9 a.m.

and again Wednesday uh at 9 p.m.

Uh you can always get copies of our agenda as well as videos of previous meetings online at the city's website, and just click on the watch meetings online option.

Uh the agenda is comprised of two parts, the general agenda and the consent agenda.

And as you know, it's always a practice of this council to take the consent agenda as the first order of business.

Items on this agenda have been unanimously recommended by a committee of the city council or are being submitted in accordance with an established city procedure.

There will be no discussion of the items on this agenda unless the council member so request, in which event the item will be removed from consent agenda and um considered individually.

Items not removed from the consent agenda will be enacted with one motion.

Council members, um, I want to remind you we do need to remove item C7 tonight.

Um need to adjust a motion from the August 4th meeting.

Are there any other items that council members wish to pull?

Take a motion.

I move for approval of the consent agenda.

Second.

Second by Councilmember Scipio.

All those in favor of approved and consent agenda, please say aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed, no.

And that is unanimous.

Thank you.

Would you read item C7, please?

C seven.

Item C seven, approval of the City Council summary of minutes from August 4th, 2025.

Councilman Clark, I believe you have uh an amendment to your motion on the fourth.

Yes.

Some of the wording was incorrect in it, so I'm going to re read it so we can put that in the minutes.

So what you read will be the official record.

Be official.

Okay.

I move that the ones to say the city council go into closed session pursuant to general statute 143-31811A4.

No.

I apologize, Councilmembers.

That's for our later closed session.

Oh, we need a motion, Councilmember Clark.

Just to add the language back to the minutes.

We went into closed session last time for one matter, but we actually discussed two.

We needed to add that second matter to the minutes, and that was the case of Thompson v city of Winston-Salem.

And so I need a motion for that.

Madam Clerk, I don't know if you have an actual language in your hand.

I've got it here.

Do you have it?

Okay.

So the motion, Mr.

Well, apparently everybody knows this but me.

I apologize.

I have no idea what we're doing.

I'd like to make the motion that we uh add to the language the uh additional case.

Additional case.

Is referenced by City.

Curly Ann Thompson, uh the state of Thompson Thompson versus uh the city of Winston Salem et al.

So that's the motion.

Council members, do we understand the motion?

Second.

Second by Mayor Pro Tim any discussion.

Not all in favor of that motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed, no, and that's unanimous.

Thank you, Councilmember Clark.

If there's anything else I can do for you, please go order.

We'll now go to the general agenda, which is uh includes a number of items, uh mostly uh ordinances uh amending the the uh city zoning uh code as well as amending chapter 38 uh article one of section 38 of the city code as well.

We'll have a number of public hearings when they are called.

A person in a council chamber will be given an opportunity to speak.

If uh no if there's opposition to a public hearing item on zoning, the proponents and opponents will each be given 15 minutes for presentation and three minutes for rebuttal.

If no one wishes to speak, I'll close the public hearing and the city council will consider the item.

Council, before we go uh into the general agenda, staff has requested that we continue items G eight and G9 to the September 15th City Council meeting.

I'd entertain a motion to do that.

Move for approval.

Thank you.

Sir Second.

Second.

Second by Councilmember uh joiner to uh extend these items to the September 15th meeting.

Any discussion, questions?

If not, all those in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

And that is unanimous.

We'll extend those over.

So we'll now move to the uh general agenda and item G1, please.

This comes from our public safety committee and recognize our chairman, Councilmember Scipio.

Thank you.

Uh I move for approval of item G1.

Sir, second.

I second.

Second by Councilmember Joiner and Councilmember Burke at the same time.

There, any discussion.

All those in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

I didn't.

Everybody voted.

There it is.

Unanimous.

Thank you, uh, Councilmember Scipio.

Uh may we have item G2, please.

Item G2, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of Leveta Wright from L I to PBL.

Property is located at the northeast intersection of Dixie Broadway and Fayetteville Street, located in the East Ward.

Planning board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this rezoning?

Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and recognize Councilmember Scipio if you are ready for a motion.

Yes.

I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item, and two W-3647.

Sir Second.

Second.

Any discussion?

All those in favor of the motion, please vote yes.

And anyone opposed, vote no.

That is unanimous.

Thank you, Councilman Scipio.

Item G3, please.

Item G3, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of Martin Maritzi Garcia, Martha Beatrice Ayala, Juan Carlos Marichi Ajala, and Shannon Amanda Tinsley from NBS to MBL.

Property is located at the northeast intersection of East Clemensville Road and Petrie Street, located in the southeast ward.

Planning board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the council chairman who is opposed to this rezoning?

Seeing no one, I'll declare.

Oh, are you opposed to this, sir?

Yes, sir.

Okay, if you'd come up and give your name and address for the record, please.

Are the proponents here for this uh rezoning?

Yeah, would you like to come up and we usually let the proponents go first and not call on you, sir?

Yeah, or right there in the front row, fine.

Oh, okay.

If you give your name and address for the record as well, sir.

Yes, sir.

Good afternoon.

My name is Juan Carlos Marie Chayala.

My address is 2322 Petrie Street, Winston Selling, North Carolina.

I guess I'm here to defend this case.

Um, the last time we had a conversation at the other meeting, it was um a misunderstanding whether it was a drive-through or if it was a complete restaurant.

What we're requesting is a commissary kitchen, um, which doesn't require really any restaurant services, it's just a commercial kitchen for um food truck purposes, really.

There's not gonna be any customers coming in in and out, which I think was a big opposition.

Um July 17th, I had a meeting with Miss Sharon Wright and Miss Joyce with our the I think the association presidents and leaders, and um we talked about all the details that they were um in their mind what they had, any discomforts.

Um I think by the end of the meeting we came to a clear agreement that there was no oppositions from them to.

Um, other than that, I haven't really heard anything from anybody else as far as the neighbors trying to reach out.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Any questions, Mr.

Garcia?

All right, thank you, sir.

Thank you, guys.

Anyone else for the proponents?

All right.

Now we'll hear from the opposition, sir.

John Conis, 5420, Styres Ferry Road, Clemens, North Carolina, 27012, 336-995-1085.

Spot zoning for a food truck right among thousands of single family zoned homes is wrong.

People live here.

They don't want this to happen.

They deserve to keep single family zoning rock solid.

There is not even enough room in this small parking area for a food truck and some business parking.

Customers parking will take up most of the homeowner street parking.

Who needs it?

There is a very tight side street parking where the food truck parks in the lot.

It is sure to cause problems with the traffic flow and homeowners parking in this area.

Driveways will be blocked, roadways hampered with this food truck business.

There is plenty of room in Park View Shopping Center where it should go.

Never in a single family home zone.

Let's clean up Walltown Street starting now.

Get rid of the junkyards, tire stacks in the rain, run down property.

It can be done with your help.

Maybe the school of the arts can be saved from Greensboro or Charlotte.

We need to try.

Now you know why I'm here talking about Walttown and trying to help clean it up.

Almost every week, I come back to visit Walttown shop and hope, and I'm disappointed in how downgraded everything looks.

It's just it's terrible in this in the city, just gave up on it.

I don't know why they gave up on it.

Uh it used to be in with the Walltown Business Association in Waltham Street, and we had about 60 members.

We did a lot.

We cleaned up the drunks under the bridge in Sprag Street.

The city helped us, the railroad detectives helped us.

We got all the old mattresses and wine bottles and everything else.

The convenience store on right next to the bridge on Sprag Street was selling wine through the buns down on the tracks.

ABC board went and told them said, we're lodging you.

If you sell any alcohol to any drunk people, we're gonna take your license away.

So they quit selling alcohol to the bums underneath the bridge.

About 50 people went down there one Saturday, cleaned it up.

Oh, and it took hours to clean it up.

But this is something that the Walltown business owners did.

We tried to find the tire dumps, the so-called junkyard, uh, so-called uh repair shops that nothing but junkyards.

They have 10 or 15 abandoned cars in their parking lot.

Some of the license plates are 10 or 15 years old.

Uh from what I heard, you can't have a junk car sitting in a parking area of a of a of a garage if it doesn't have a up-to-date license plate on it.

We cleaned that whole section up on Walttown Street, got rid of a lot of it, and then it seemed like all of our businesses started closing up, and uh they just got tired of trying to fight it, fight it, fight it, fight it.

But Walttown Street really needs your help badly, and to be so close to the school of the arts.

I was the last graduating class of gray high school, and that's where the school of the arts is now.

It's a fine place to put the school of the arts.

It's got a lot of class.

So I wish y'all would get behind this thing and don't let it go down any farther.

Get the inspectors out there, close these places down that won't follow city ordinance.

It's it's just terrible.

That's about all I have to say.

Thank you very much, sir.

Uh for the proponents, you have three minutes for rebuttal if you'd like to add anything else.

Um, just real quick to address the because the biggest item that I saw he had was about the amount of traffic coming in and out.

So our our property has uh entrance and then it turns all the way around the building, and you can come out the other side.

So there's an exit and an entrance.

So there's not gonna be like a turnaround spot inside the parking lot.

The parking lot I said it can probably fit about 10 cars well parked.

And a food truck, when a customer comes up, they're there maybe five minutes, they order their stuff, ten minutes at most, and there's probably like three or four cars maximum at a time.

So our parking lot doesn't really ever fill up just for our customers, unless it's a busy Saturday, Friday night, you know.

It's really only Friday night, Saturday night.

We're not open.

Um, so Friday night would be our busiest night.

I don't really see it being that much traffic of an issue.

Um like I said, I spoke with Miss Sharon, and that's one of the things that we talked about, and I think we came to a pretty decent agreement on that.

Other than that, I think everything's been speaking spoken of fairly.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh sir, you'd have three minutes for uh rebuttal if you would care to.

Anything else you want to add, sir?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Uh I've driven by there several times.

They the food truck is parked there sometimes now, even without being zoned right.

Uh the streets over there are old streets.

The the uh the side streets where the people live are is not very wide.

Uh if if they get off of work and they come home and there's people parked and blocking their driveways and all this other stuff.

Uh I just think it'll be a big uproar about this.

And the parking lot at Parkview Saint uh shopping center is empty.

You could put 10 food trucks in it.

Uh there's a place for everything inside of single family zoning.

It just goes on and on and on.

These neighborhoods are big.

I've when I was little, I rode my bicycle through there all the time.

I knew half the people that lived there.

Working class people, Reynolds, uh Haynes, Western Electric.

They it was two knitting mills there on off of Walton Street.

Uh this was working class people, and I think it's working class people now.

But uh I just only reason I'm I'm here is because I know so much about Walt Town Street.

Uh uh I grew up in it.

Uh went to all three schools, Easttown Elementary, Hill Junior High, and the Gray High School.

I knew the people that lived in the houses.

Uh it was a fine place to live, but it's just gone all to pieces with a spot zoning here, spot zoning there.

It's uh it's something that shouldn't be happening.

We should try to help Walt.

And that's uh I've I'm out Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for listening to Thank you.

With that, I'll close the public hearing and ask Mr.

Murphy if you would give the uh presentation on the planning board from the planning board.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim, members of city council.

Uh this is a request to rezone uh a point two six acre acre property on East Clemensville Road and Peachtree Street there at the corner, located in the Southeast Ward from NBS, so it's already zoned neighborhood business special use to neighborhood business limited use.

And the uses that are being requested are specifically restaurant without drive-through, retail store, and services A.

And I believe currently they have the use retail store and services A.

They're adding the use restaurant without drive-thru and changing it from a special use plan to a special use limited because it has been zoned in B for 26 years.

The rezoning that established the N B district was done in 1999.

So uh Aaron, if you would uh okay, you've already gone on to the next slide.

It is located within uh GMA two, the urban neighborhoods growth management area.

And there is the subject property highlighted in yellow.

You DC you do see the notification area as was alluded to.

There were some folks that did come to uh the planning board uh meeting with some concerns.

Most of those concerns it seems like have been addressed because the folks are not here, uh although Mr.

Contus is here, I believe I pronounced the name correctly.

Um so again, if you call attention to the map, it is currently zone MBS, and so the request is to go from neighborhood business special use to neighborhood business limited use and add the one use restaurant without drive-thru.

And if you go on to the next, this is the countywide aerial imagery.

It is an existing building.

Uh, whenever we look at some of the site photos, it appears it could have been a residential building at one point, but it almost looks like the the uh my recollection is that the building was maybe commercial in uh in origin to begin with.

So if you would go on to the next image, this is the subject property um shown on the uh Southeast Winter Salem area plan update completed in 2014.

It recognizes the existing commercial zoning on the property and recommends commercial zoning for the property.

So again, it is consistent with the area plan.

If you would go to the next image, this is looking at the parking lot.

This is off of Peach Tree Street.

This is where you would pull into the parking lot.

The parking lot can uh wrap around and go back out to uh East Clemensville.

There is a food truck that is parked there.

Uh they do run a commissary kitchen and they will you know have uh the food truck sometimes it's there, sometimes it's other places in the city.

They also do have other uses there, services A retail store.

So again, this is just keeping it consistent with that so they can actually have their commissary kitchen at this location.

If you go to the next image, uh this is looking south on Peachtree Street, the subject property is to the left.

Uh this is looking uh north from the subject property across East Clemensville Road.

Again, looking at another uh residential property on the north side of Clemensville.

Uh, this is looking northeast on East Clemensville Road.

The subject property uh is to the right.

And this is looking west from the subject property across Peach Tree Street, and there's another image uh of a legally non-conforming use on that other corner.

In summary, the request is consistent with the recommendations of both Ford 2045 and the Southeast Winsos Salem area plan update.

The request would provide services to nearby residents with minimal negative impacts.

Uh the request would allow uh increased flexibility in using an underutilized property by adding the uses retail store and restaurant.

I was wrong, it just had the use services A under the previous zoning.

Um if you go to the next slide, uh again, this was heard by the planning board at their June twelfth meeting.

Uh there were speakers and opposition concerned about not wanting change in their neighborhood traffic issues and nuisance concern related to trash and on street parking following the public hearing.

The planning board did vote unanimously to recommend approval.

You did hear from the petitioner, he did meet with some of those neighbors that live in the area and apparently address their concerns here before you with that.

I stand ready to answer any questions.

Any questions, Mr.

Murphy?

All right, thank you.

I will uh recognize uh customer Taylor for motion if he's ready.

Thank you, Mayor Mayor Pro Tim members of the council.

Uh I'll say this, sir.

Thank you for coming and for voicing your concerns.

It means a lot to me that you would come and do that.

I want you to know also I am born and reared in the community as well.

I attended Forest Park, Hill Middle School, and Parkland High School, so I also have a vested interest in the neighborhood.

And I'll tell you, I say that to say this.

I would never vote for something like this or any kind of rezoning in a residential community without meeting with the neighbors first.

We had an opportunity to have a good meeting with the neighbors.

The meeting was well attended.

They did voice some concerns, but ultimately uh the meeting adjourned with the community being in support of this particular item.

So with that being said, your concerns are are well taken.

Um Wall Town does have some challenges, but in my humble opinion, I think it looks a lot better than uh it's looked in in the last 10 years or so.

And just down from this intersection, there's another item that we're gonna talk about that's gonna be a roundabout.

You've got the northern beltway, the Salem Creek Connector, and these are just kind of growing pains, as I would say.

So the community seems to be important uh in support of this.

Uh so I'll move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for approval of this item, and two W-3648.

Thank you.

Sir Second.

Second.

Second by Mayor Pro Time.

I don't see any discussion.

Questions?

If not, I was a favorite motion, please syndicate by voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

And that is unanimous.

Thank you very much.

Uh item G4.

Item G4, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of W.

Saunders Mosley and Elizabeth Mosley from GI to PBL.

Property is located on the west side of Chatham Road, north of Buxton Street, located in Northwest Ward.

Planning board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

We do have individuals signed up in opposition to this.

Um first call on the proponents if they're here to uh make a little presentation on their request for rezoning.

Okay.

I give my address here.

Yes, if you would, please.

Um 309 Gillasky Street in Greensboro, North Carolina.

What's your uh 27401?

Thank you.

Um EUG is the name of our studio.

Um, it was already in the process of running as a um film and photography studio.

Um, and we took over because the owner was trying to find somebody to take it over.

Um a little background about myself.

I went to AT.

I have a bachelor's in music, a minor in theater.

Um, I did sound for film.

I have a master's in organizational management.

So when I went into this venture, it was not taken lightly.

Um the main reason we're wanting to do the rezoning is because while it is uh GI and it can um be necessarily operated as a film and photography studio.

We would like to put a um event center in the back of the warehouse.

Um, and that is why we were suggested to do um PBL as well as add some art pieces.

Um, our goal is to make EUG a central hub for art in the triad area.

I've been in North Carolina my whole life.

I have no plan on leaving.

Um so that is really the main thing that we're trying to accomplish.

Um is a family-owned business.

I own it with my um brother cousin.

If if you know, you know.

Um he's my cousin, but we grew up more like brothers.

Um he also does um photography and videography.

We both make music.

Um, and we didn't feel like there was a place that was a central hub.

We've had people come to the studio from all throughout North Carolina already.

Um, booking um video session, photography sessions.

Um, and then when they see what we're trying to do with the event center, they're very excited.

Um when we had our meeting, we had neighbors walk up to the um studio and they we gave them a tour and they were really excited.

Um that's really I don't know if can two of us speak?

Yeah, we can we've got 15 minutes, so we got another 13 minutes.

All right, I yield my time.

Okay, great.

Anyone else for the proponents?

Anyone else for the proponents?

All right, seeing no one, we'll go to the opposition.

Um Chris Chrisovsky, good evening.

Uh I'm Chris Kryowski.

I live at 811 North Spring Street in Winston Salem 27101.

Um I am the house on Spring Street that is directly behind uh the Chatham building.

Um so I met uh I met JC um earlier this year.

I was doing some yard work.

Um she was looking at the property and she told me a little bit about what they were doing, and I was you know, I I was excited for him because there would have been somebody, an artist had held residency there for a while, and and so um I was glad that people were using that facility.

This guy would come out and do some art uh from time to time and he'd like bring smokers out and they do graffiti on the wall.

And it was just you know a small little event, but most of all most of his work was inside, right?

Um and so a few weeks ago, um so anyway.

So JC Jay's uh JC told me about that, and I thought, you know, I was I'm in support of a community center and an event and event space, and I like what's going on inside of there.

Um what concerns me is going on outside.

So a few weeks ago, I got up in the middle of night to use a restroom and I look out and I see these unbelievably bright lights shining into my backyard, and I really I wasn't quite sure what it was.

Um they had held a um uh she told me about a meeting they were gonna have for neighbors, and it was gonna be on the Saturday of Memorial Day.

I was like, could you possibly do it not on a holiday weekend to maybe get more attendance?

But they had it on that weekend.

I wasn't able to make it, I was out of town.

And I also missed the the zoning uh board meeting because I was uh out of town on on business.

So I I started hearing the news that it was going to become they were looking at the space to become a bar.

And I'm like, all right, well, that's a little concerning.

Um, but it wasn't really until uh this past Friday night.

Um we're sitting out on our on our back deck, and all of a sudden it was like a UFO just dropped out of the sky.

These lights were just like these super bright fluorescent lights right into our backyard, and then car after car after car just started coming in.

And within no time, it was a full parking lot with tons of people roaming around.

So where this sits, where this neighborhood sits, um all along you know the hill, there's neighbors that sit up at the hill.

So we're directly impacted by the lights, but I'm sure they're seeing the lights up on West End Boulevard as well.

Um there's you know, families with kids, etc.

So the lights are the one thing, but you know, to have a basically what from what I'm understanding is not necessarily an event space, but like once you start looking for a liquor license, you're becoming a bar, right?

You're becoming a club.

A club that is basically in a neighborhood.

I'm not sure that is the kind of revitalization we're looking for in that neighborhood.

I think it has a negative impact to the West End historic district, which sits right on top of it and runs all along the way.

I know there are other neighbors that are impacted, you know, on Chatham.

Um I think you'll hear from that gentleman here in a minute.

Um so again, I if it was just left at an event space um or a community center is as the way I was understanding it was gonna be.

I think you know, I'm fine with that.

What I'm not really fine with is a full-on bar where people come in, pay admission, they're open till two o'clock in the morning.

I mean, I've got two daughters at home.

One is gonna go to Raleigh soon to start a job, but the other one's a senior in high school, right?

And she's got friends over.

We're not always there, and it's just to have like that kind of a club just right on the other side of our yard, uh, gives me some pause.

Um so again, I don't think it's great for the area.

I don't think it's great for the West End uh in general.

I think there are other areas in town that are better suited for you know a bar um in studio.

Would love to keep them, you know, stay, you know, keep it as a studio, let people come in, rent it out, you know.

If there's a way for them to do, you know, private events or whatever, that's fine.

People have parties in their in their places of work all the time.

But uh for a permanent installation that is a bar.

Um I am vehemently opposed to that being in my backyard.

So I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chris.

Uh Frank Fry.

Mayor joins and members of council.

My name is Frank Fry.

Julia and I live on 750 Chatham Road, just uh a couple of hundred feet from this particular building.

And what I see here is a petition that looks great on the surface, but it kind of got off the rails somewhere, and that somewhere was July 21st.

Uh I'm sorry, it was June 21st, when there was a large event that had loud music that impacted the neighbors on the hillside that are not seen when you walk by or drive by that building that's uh West End Boulevard in the Crystal Towers area of West End.

And also, as the previous person said, Spring Street, North Spring, which is just one block long, that backs straight up to it.

That event on the 21st was followed by events on the 4th and 5th of July were extremely well attended.

Lots of cars, lots of people.

Most of the cars parked anywhere they could find a spot, which was on other people's property.

Uh my dog Lucy and I walk every day past that building twice for the last 18 months.

We've adopted an area that's about a mile long, and we pick up litter.

After these events, I had to carry an extra bag.

There was just amazing amount of trash out there.

There was vomit in one place, vape material in another.

I had a fellow in an old crown Vic, which had to be a police car to begin with, with a police interceptor equipment that came down that hill at full throttle, turned around and came back up.

This is at 1 40 in the morning.

And Chatham Road at that point is 20 feet wide, which is substandard.

It's also constructed by poorly maintained right-away.

There are trees that have been down since the storm.

And they dump whatever they feel like they can dump.

It's makes for an unpleasant place.

It used to be the old Chatham Manufacturing, the Chathum Mills, Western Electric for those that are not as old as Chatham Mills, but they're a it's a great mix of young people and older people in those departments.

I've talked to several of them that walk like I do.

And they're talk to several that don't walk because they're a little nervous about the area.

When Lucy and I go out, we go to Buxton Street and then up to 8th Street and down Spruce Street to the City Park that the city doesn't claim is a park because it's uh I think it's an extension of Crystal Towers Park.

And it was really poorly maintained for quite a while.

Unfortunately, the city's taken more of a proactive stance on that, picking up trash that my bags don't carry.

And homeless people that are you know trying to survive have been in there several times in large numbers.

My point on on this place is what he's proposing looks pretty nice, and what he's done is pretty nice, but what he has failed to do is restrict the activity to inside and not disturbing the neighbors.

So in my opinion, really can't go through with the zoning unless we put lots of restrictions on it.

And I've heard ABC permit is thrown around by the owner, whom I had a conversation with, Mr.

Mosley.

So those are my points, and I would hope that this would be turned down for now and go back for further study or whatever.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Fry.

Uh Peter Rutchard.

Uh name is Peter Richter.

Sorry.

Sorry, it's probably my handwriting.

Uh 212 uh West End Boulevard.

Uh Winston's Gown, North Carolina, 27101.

Um it's interesting.

We received the first letter of rezoning, and it read a lot like that.

And we said, Oh, okay, somebody wants to open an arts and craft studio.

Sounds pretty interesting.

You know, good luck.

I hope they do well.

Um, it's great that folks could open a small business and thrive.

Uh we caught wind of what already had happened over the last 45 to 60 days, and it's it's obvious that the person who wants to have this establishment, in my opinion, is not being um forthright in their intent.

Right?

It's one thing to have a studio, it's another thing to run a club, because that's what it is.

Right.

I mean, I wouldn't even say it's a bar, it's a club.

And that's clearly what they intend to use the space for.

And we live obviously not that far away.

It's a neighborhood.

I don't know why anyone would even try and have a club in a residential neighborhood.

Um it's concerning because you know, after a couple of the events, you know, we went online and did a little research, tried to figure out what these folks were gonna do.

I will tell you that the things they were advertising were not an arts and crafts studio, it was a club.

They had contests, right?

This was borderline more than just a club, right?

There's certain places on Peters Creek Parkway that are like this.

This is just really does not belong in a residential neighborhood.

Uh I just I I can't believe that somebody would come up here and say that well, this is their intent of this business, and yet clearly their actions show very differently.

So I I really would ask you to, you know, if they want to have an arts and crafts studio, that's great, but it has to be severely limited.

And to the early gentleman's point, whether it's just inside those four walls.

But to be honest, I'm not sure anybody wants another bar in West End.

Right.

Um, so I would ask that you you you would turn this down and really think hard about the folks that that live nearby that are in residential area.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else for the opponents?

Yes, sir.

Got about two minutes.

I'll be brief.

Uh Andrew Leslie 101 West End Boulevard, which is uh my house is at the intersection of uh West End and Buxton.

Um I couldn't attend the planning board meeting, but I did come to the open house that the the um uh petitioners uh held, and I was very grateful for that.

I toured their facilities for um video and audio production, and there's a large room at the back for events, and I was uh favorably impressed.

I came away feeling that this could be something beneficial in the community, but as other speakers have alluded to, there were a couple of evenings earlier this summer with a crowd of about 200, I would say people they seemed to me to be mostly teenagers.

There was nothing particularly threatening about this crowd, they were simply acting like you know, boisterous teenagers.

But 200 teenagers in a residential, you know, neighborhood is still quite a lot.

And they parked up both sides of Chatham Road.

Uh and then they um the the cars were blocking, and you know, the kids were hanging around the cars and talking and um having fun.

And uh I I did call the police department when it became uh impossible to drive down Chatham Avenue.

And I would say it broke up around one o'clock in the morning.

Um some of the teenagers were and the parking was the biggest problem because after Chatham was parked up, they parked on West End and my area of the neighborhood.

Uh a lot of the residents there rely on street parking, so it does become you know a problem when you have a lot of cars coming into the neighborhood.

Um and uh I would say the loud, the loud car that was that was uh alluded to earlier, you know, that also uh bothered me.

Um so the major problem I would like to see that that um this petition be at least reworked with strict limitations on these kinds of large outdoor events.

I think studio production is absolutely fine and small events like a wedding reception, but a big outdoor party like this is just not appropriate.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Wesley.

All right.

Uh the proponents you'd have three minutes for rebuttal if you'd like to uh present anything.

Hey, hi everybody doing.

Um I'm Jonathan, and I am the business partner um 3213, um Henry Boulevard of Greensboro 27405.

Um these concerns um that we are hearing uh being in the resident area, we definitely took heed to ourselves.

Um as my partner said, we um we've been in the business.

I myself been in a business for a long time.

Um definitely the arts and craft um studio and feminine studio.

What took place was with popular um um with with popular people, we had a rush um that come down and we had to do some adjusting as their concerns are speaking of um parking and everything um that we didn't know we were going to take on.

What we took on with the property itself was we definitely have enough parking on the premises itself.

Um it was brush and and and things that we had to adjust to to cut down for it to be used.

Um and that's what we run into.

Um so we had to adjust and accommodate that, and which we we have adjusted and getting people to be on the premises alone.

Um we talked to some of the neighbors, I think I seen one um they came up.

Yeah, um, and we took took the took the concerns and consideration because being in a residential being around is definitely understandable.

Um, and we're not trying to make it seem like a bar or anything like that.

Um, and we can see how it comes across like that.

Um, but when we doing video shoots and stuff like that, they have um scenes and stuff, and there's a it is a lot of people that um came upon that, and we are we are more so in the area of there may be food trucks, there may be people that that come.

We don't we don't we are not petitioning for liquor license for in-house or anything like that.

Um we accommodate bookings, and that's what we do based off what we said.

I'm gonna I only got 25 seconds.

We are not a bar club.

The contest was for a free video shoot that was done by various artists in the area.

Um Friday that um was talked about with the lights.

That was a video shoot, and we did not want them to park on the um street.

Um we have clear signage that says street parking is not allowed, and I have started to tell people that they will be towed.

Thank you, Mr.

Chin.

Thank you.

Uh, for the opponents, you'd have three minutes for rebuttal if you would like it.

Um I possibly share some photos.

Would that be possible?

Yep.

Mr.

Murphy, I'll help you out there.

Um whether that was for a photo shoot the other night or not.

That's you know how did how do we explain the other nights where we saw the bright lights, right?

Are are we are we doing photo shoots like that, you know, every weekend?

Um I don't believe that you I don't believe that you can actually control like once you open up a club and it's like kind of the sickest thing in town.

Um yeah, so that's the that is just the view from normally that is like jet black behind those trees.

Um like I said, like all of a sudden it was like a UFO came and landed in the backyard.

It's and and right now we're we're getting the benefit of of summer and leaves on trees.

And once those leaves are gone during the winter, there's nothing breaking up like you know the the light, you know, the environmental pollution, the noise is gonna be coming right through with no buffer.

Um, yeah, so that's that's that's our view when they're in in full light.

So, you know, again, I think where everyone's saying is they love the idea of an event space, but there's got to be some some limits to to the execution of what they're doing here.

So I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I don't have my timer again.

Uh can you get that back up for me?

What happened?

There it is.

Okay.

Mr.

Fry.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh the main thing I had talked to staff after some of these events, and talking to staff initially about what the uses were and expressing my concerns about special events center and uh club and lodge or lodge.

The club can be abused pretty easily by just issuing a dollar membership at the door.

So those are those are things that just are troubling about this.

And and staff told me just point blank that this would not have any outside activity.

And it's it's had plenty.

And and during the time it's had plenty, there is no legal reason or right for them to use it for what they're using it for.

There's no occupancy permit, and it has obviously not been rezoned.

So it's it's really troubling.

It seems to me that they're willing to put try anything to make a buck on it.

And that that's very concerning.

And thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Fry.

We will uh close the public hearing and would ask Mr.

Murphy if you would give the report of the planning board.

Make sure my mic's on.

Good evening again.

Uh, this is a request to rezone 1.93 uh acres uh located on the west side of Chatham Road, north of Bucks Street, uh located in the northwest ward from existing uh general industrial GI zoning to pedestrian business limited use.

Uh, this is a subject property shown on the uh countywide uh growth management area plan.

It is located within GMA2, also urban neighborhoods.

Uh this is a subject property uh highlighted in yellow again on the west side of Chatham Road, uh just north of Buxton and um adjacent to the homes uh that front on West End Boulevard.

This is an existing uh industrial use.

It's been there for a long time.

I don't know the exact number of years, but a long time.

And again, it is located in general use um GI.

If you go to the next image, this is the countywide aerial imagery.

You see, there is an existing building.

That aerial doesn't do a very good job of showing it.

It's probably what the uh petitioners alluded to, but there is parking that surrounds this, both to the south and to the west.

All that vacant property uh that is not in building uh to the west of the rear of that building is predominantly parking, and there's also a driveway that loops around the north side of that building with some other parking off of it.

Uh if you would go to the next slide, uh this is the um South Central with some area plan update, which was completed in 2015.

It uh recognizes uh this as an institutional use, and there is an explanation behind that.

Churches are allowed in every zoning district, even though this is on GI at the time when we did the area plan, there was a church that was located uh in this building, and so that is the institutional recommendation from the area plan.

And so that is the institutional recommendation from the area plan.

But again, sitting here today, it is currently zoned general use industrial, which is our heaviest zoning district.

This is a subject property looking at the building uh from Chatham Road.

You see the driveway there on the left hand side, and like I said, I believe there is another driveway a little bit further off the image to the right.

If you go to the next image, uh that is uh to the loading dock, and you can see there is a driveway that does snake around the back of that building on the north side of that existing building.

You go to the next image.

Uh, this is looking south along Chatham Road.

The site is to the right.

You do see the narrow nature of Chatham Road uh in this area.

Believe it or not, Chatham Road in our comprehensive transportation plan is a major thoroughfare.

Um it's a major thoroughfare with a 20-foot wide ribbon-paved street, but it is a major thoroughfare nonetheless.

You go to the next image, uh, this is looking east from the site across Chatham Road.

From the aerial imagery, it looks like that's an area for uh trailer storage and a parking lot, probably associated with some of the um things going on at the former current Pain Stein finishing facility.

If you go to the next image.

Uh in summary, uh, this request would provide an opportunity to redevelop an underutilized property within GMA2 to provide additional opportunities for investment and neighborhood revitalization.

Uh the request would allow the development of low-intensity commercial uses adjacent to a residential neighborhood, and I'll unpack some of this in a second.

The request would eliminate the potential for developing high-impact industrial uses allowed under the current GI zoning.

So, again, kind of unpacking a little bit of that.

Of course, it's currently zone GI, which will allow the heaviest industrial uses.

The uses that have been requested, if done appropriately, should be considered low intensity uses.

But generally speaking, a special event center would be within an enclosed building.

The use club or lodge that was referred to is a fraternal club or lodge.

That is something like the Civitans or the Moose Lodge or something like that.

If you have a bar, uh that is considered a restaurant within the City of Winston-Salem's zoning ordinance.

Uh, even if you're operating as a private club and you don't meet the threshold as a restaurant under the state of North Carolina as far as the receipts, you're still considered a restaurant in our UDO.

It just is reflected in your liquor license a different way.

If you're a private club and you're selling liquor and you don't meet the food, you have to sell memberships to come in, but it's not a club or lodge, it is a restaurant.

I just want to unpack a little bit of that in a little bit more detail of what's there because again, the way we viewed this was that this was moving to a lesser intense use in the general industrial.

It is up to for debate based on the images that you've seen and discussions that you've heard whether or not the way the building is actually being used is less intense than industrial, but again, I did want to unpack that a little bit.

If you would go to the next slide, this was heard by the planning board at their June 12th meeting.

There weren't any speakers in opposition at that time.

As you heard, the things that have come to light have come to light since the planning board met.

Uh but the planning board having no one there, it meeting the um meeting the intent of having a less intense use going from general industrial to something that would perhaps be more neighborhood serving, did unanimously recommend approval of this request uh to the city council.

And with that, I stand ready to answer.

Any questions, Mr.

Murphy?

Thank you, Mr.

Murphy.

I recognize Councilmember Hall if you're ready.

I am.

Thank you.

Uh Mayor Joins.

And thank you, Mr.

Murphy, uh, Director Murphy for the presentation.

Um do acknowledge the planning board's unanimous um recommendation for approval of this item.

I will say that um since this item uh proposed item is in the Northwest Ward since June, I have been receiving um emails and telephone calls.

Um if I have not received it, then um support staff uh in my office has received it.

And um, in addition to the folks tonight that we uh heard from, um, there's also been a petition that has been circled around that's gotten over like 40 some signatures.

Um I've heard from various constituents in the North Ward regarding their concerns for um the future use or the proposed use of this item, and that is given the current use of the conditions of the building.

Um I will say and share with my colleagues that um I've received pictures of excessive trash behind the building, including beer bottles, um, multiple trash bags um field um complaints and concerns about excessive noise with parties.

Um have also been sent flyers.

Um one flyer in particular, even though um this was in July, we didn't meet in July.

Um, but one the one flyer that was sent that I was able to pull back up was um for July 18th, and this was called the two dope fest, volume one.

Um this was um at 740 Chatham Road from 10 p.m.

to 2 a.m.

Two dope fest volume one, get ready for a dope lineup, sick beats, and a lit vibe at two dope fest volume one is gonna be off the charts.

Exclamation mark.

Um you could get tickets, they were $19.10 uh if you purchased online again that started at 10 and went from 2 a.m.

And I think overwhelmingly what I have heard is just that this will be more of the same.

And with that information, it just is uh totally incongruent than what we've seen tonight.

Um and I will say that in trying to just kind of chart everything that I have heard, it has been in direct opposition.

I have heard literally nothing positive.

Um I did not hear um unfortunately from the petitioners, no one contacted my office.

Um staff hadn't told me of um anything.

Now sometimes I do miss emails.

I'm human, um, but I don't know anything that got escalated um from you all.

Appreciate you all being here tonight, Mr.

Canty, but I hadn't heard from you all, um, had not heard from the petitioner directly.

And so it was nice to hear from you all tonight, but instead, all uh all I heard from was people in opposition.

I mean, literally, that's all I heard from.

Um, and tonight that is what we are being flooded with.

And if I am a property owner in that area, I wouldn't be able to do anything but to at least just take what I currently see, what I currently hear, and take that as being a possibly more of the same of what we would get in the future.

And so because of that, um I will move for approval of the statement of consistency for the denial of this item, and then two for the denial of W-3649.

Thank you.

I would second that.

Second by councilmember joiner.

Any further discussion comments?

If not, all in favor of the motion to deny this rezoning, uh, please indicate the voting yes, and anyone opposed, vote no.

That is unanimous uh to to deny this.

So we'll got seven votes up there.

Sorry, Councilmember Sibio's vote didn't go through, but it is unanimous.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Hall.

Item G five.

Item G five, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of Jeffrey B.

Hensdale and Lisa Goins from RS9 to RMAS.

Property is located along the east side of Willard Road, south of Interstate 40.

It's in the Southeast Ward.

Planning Board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this rezoning?

Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed, and I recognize Councilmember Taylor.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for approval of this item and two W-3650.

Second.

Motion seconded by uh Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Any further discussion questions?

Not all in favor of the motion, please indicate the vote.

Yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no?

That is unanimous.

Thank you, Councilmember Taylor.

Thank you.

Item G six.

Item G6, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of 12 Star Express Inc.

from RS9 to PBS.

Property is located at the northeast intersection of Thomasville Road and East Clemensville Road, located in the Southeast Ward.

Planning Board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

Is there anyone in opposition to this uh rezoning?

Another petitioners are here if you're any questions.

Anyone in opposition?

All right.

Thank you.

I'll declare the public hearing closed and again recognize Councilmember Taylor.

Thank you.

Again, Mayor.

I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for approval of this item and two W-3651.

Second.

Second by Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Any further discussion?

Questions?

All right.

All those in favor of the motion to approve this rezoning.

Please indicate the voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

And that is unanimous.

Thank you.

And item uh G seven.

Item G7, public hearing and consideration of site plan amendment of the residents at Indiana Avenue, LLC for a change to site layout of the previously approved multifamily development.

Property is located on South Indiana Avenue and Appomedics Avenue intersection.

It's located in the North Ward.

Planning Board recommends approval of petition.

Is there anyone in the council chamber who is opposed to this site plan amendment?

All right, seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed and uh recognize Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move for approval of one statement of consistency for the approval of this item and two W3652.

Thank you, sir.

Second.

Second.

Second by Councilmember Taylor for the discussion.

Councilmember Hall.

Thank you.

Mayor Joins.

I did have conversations about this particular item.

I was able to talk to Director Murphy earlier today.

I had a few moments to speak with Mayor Pro Tim Adams about a couple of concerns that I had about this item.

In particular, I had some concerns about the neighborhood outreach or the lack thereof about this item.

This particular area is right across from the area of the Stonewall neighborhood, a neighborhood that I grew up in, and so that's one reason why I was interested in it.

The other part to this is that there was a letter that was mailed on May 22nd, but the letter did not necessarily, it was a little vague as to where the development would take place.

Um has already been rezoned.

I think that that happened in 2023.

Keep me honest, Director Murphy.

Um and so it's not necessarily about that.

This was a change in the site plan, which is important.

My concern is is that since that time period, there have been people who have moved out of the neighborhood.

There have been some people who died since that time.

And so there may honestly be people that don't remember what this is about.

And outside of a letter that people may or may not have read, particularly if you're getting a letter about the week before Memorial Day, you may or may not be looking at everything.

Um, you know, in particular that you get in the mail.

And I say all this to say if there was no follow-up or no additional neighborhood meeting to folks in the neighborhood, also understanding that everybody in the neighborhood did not get the outreach.

Is my understanding that if you lived on the certain part of the road that you may not have received this outreach versus if you lived on another side?

So that was um that may explain why some people did not receive the outreach.

I just would have liked and appreciated there to have been at least some sort of follow-up, particularly after the mayor pro tem invited them to attend the meeting.

Seems like it could have been at least somebody that would have been able to make their way to that meeting.

I think we may have had staff there to answer questions.

I appreciate that, but I would love to have seen someone there in answering the mayor pro Tim's invitation for them to actually show and be able to provide outreach to residents outside of a letter that was mailed on May uh 22nd of this year in follow-up to something that was approved by the previous council in 2023, um which was approximately two years prior to this.

Um those are my uh comments that I wanted to to note for this.

Um that was the major concern that I had with this, is just that lack of outreach outside of that, but I want to put that um on record.

Thank you very much.

Um, any other questions or concerns?

You were in the motion already.

We do have a motion on the floor, I believe, from Mayor Pro Tim to approve this uh site plan, Councilmember Clark.

I'll just make a quick comment.

I'm certainly not an expert that you two are, but the number of units is not changing.

It's 180 units.

It's just some internal rearranging.

Correct.

Okay, thank you.

All right.

All those in favor of the motion to approve the site plan amendment, please indicate by voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

In favor, one opposed, with councilmember Hall voting no on that.

Mayor Mayor Pro Tim, go ahead.

Uh, just like uh Councilmember Hall, my family has lived in the Stonewall community since 1973.

Uh my parents, I've lived in the Stonewall community at my parents uh from 1979 to like 1997, my mom died.

Uh my sister Rita lived on Apple Maddox.

My brother and his wife lived across the street from 5720, where my parents lived, and my sister Javon lived down the street.

So we were pretty much in Stonewall.

Uh the land that everybody is talking about has been there forever.

Again, if you've lived on that end of town, there was really nothing there for years but trees, the Tharborough apartments, the Moravians, and Stonewall, basically.

And then things began to get built, whether it was the woods, the shopping center, all of that.

Uh the housing that we're put you know voting on tonight, again, and I and I understand what's going on.

You know, nobody wants the housing in their neighborhood.

Everybody wants their neighborhood to stay the same.

So, how are we supposed to build housing?

This housing is affordable.

It's got low-income tax credits attached to it.

How are we supposed to do it when everybody gets a little upset because the traffic is going to change?

I don't know anywhere in Western where the traffic don't change every day.

But I just need everybody to keep in mind that we're trying, we're trying to, I won't say alleviate issues.

We're trying to make sure that we try to fix some issues or make them better.

Everything isn't going to go away.

And that housing, that that first plan was voted on as she said in 2023.

Uh I've dealt with the developer.

I've dealt with Stonewall, basically.

I know everybody over there.

I got a garden over there.

So uh I would just hope that the citizens citizens of Winston Salem would grow some compassion and empathy.

And and I know you want to vent the world is upside down.

I got it.

Everybody want to be mad about something.

I got it.

But I just need everybody to think if you're talking about housing, if you're talking about homelessness, if you're talking about education, if you're talking about the transportation center, if you're talking about the epithet, if you're talking about the fireman, if you're talking about anything, we all just need to be a little bit open-minded as to how we move forward together as a city.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim.

Uh Councilmember Tage, you know, we continued items eight and nine to the September 15th meeting.

We'll now go to item G10.

Item Jim, item G10, public hearing and consideration of zoning petition of Douglas and Renee Stedman Living Trust from RMAS to RMAS.

Property is located along the east side of Old Salisbury Road, south of Borough Road, located in the South Ward.

Plenum board recommends approval of petition.

Thank you.

Again, is there anyone in the council chairman who is opposed to this rezoning?

Seeing no, I declare the public hearing closed and recognize Councilmember Jordan.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move for approval of one, the statement of consistency for the approval of this item and two, W3655.

Second.

Second about Councilmember Taylor.

Any further discussion?

Not all is in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting.

Yes, anyone opposed, vote no.

Mayor.

So that's Councilmore Clore.

I have a question after we finish.

Oh, okay.

Good.

That did pass you nanously, Councilman Clark.

Yeah.

Just for edification, Mr.

Murphy, oftentimes we approve a rezoning and a site plan, as we did in a recent one here.

Minor site changes, the staff can approve my understanding, major site changes, we have to come back to.

Where's the line?

What do y'all approve and then what's the difference between a minor and a major site change?

That's a good question.

A lot of times there's not uh there's not a prescriptive.

If it does this, then it has to come back to City Council.

It's more of something that staff looks at the approval uh whenever it came to a council originally, and if the element of uh significant discussion before the council, if there was any.

Um certainly we would not agree to change that.

Um, you know, if it was related to traffic or if it was related to street connections or uh those kind of things, we would, you know, we would bring that back as uh something for you to consider if um uh if they're going from you know 32 units to 24 units, and it's basically the same way out.

We're gonna do that at the staff level.

Uh there's just no prescriptive.

The reason why the previous case came back was because there was some opposition whenever that was originally proposed.

There was some concerns about the massing and the scale of the buildings along Indiana Avenue, even though what they were bringing back was probably more reflective of the type of homes in Stonewall, gable roofs, uh slanted gable ends, slanted roof versus what was proposed in back in 2023, which was more of an urban design similar to what you would see downtown.

We felt like that should come back to the city council since that was a point of discussion during the original uh rezoning request.

So I know that doesn't really answer your question.

There is no prescriptive thing.

Uh obviously, if they're having more units, it's got to come by to you.

If they're adding additional square footage, additional buildings, if they're wanting to add uses that you previously didn't approve, all those things must come by the city council.

Thank you for that edification.

All right, thank you, Mr.

Murphy.

Go ahead.

Tonight we voted on over 37 acres of property to build housing.

You know, as tough as it is to do this, you know how we can all commend ourselves.

That was 37 acres of housing that's going to be built.

So I'm happy with very good.

Uh Casper Hall has to be recognized before we go into the public comment.

Thank you, Mayor Joins.

Um, I would like to um discuss very briefly something that I would like to just make sure is on public record.

Um there was an article that was featured in the Weston Salem Journal on Thursday, August the 14th.

And it was um written by Scott Sexton, in which I um gave Scott a call and left him a message uh this evening.

So this is not anything that Mr.

Sexton would not know about.

So I'm trying to make sure that I extend that courtesy.

Um, but on record, the article was entitled Amphitheater Backers Wonder, what's the holdup?

And in that article, um, it says that um it has about council member Hall saying I'm generally supportive of the concept.

Council member Regina Hall said during Monday's committee meeting, and this was Monday of last week, but I don't want in parentheses affordable housing, close parentheses, to get lost in the sauce as we consider development, end quote.

Now, in particular, um, I was not talking about affordable housing.

What I was talking about was a conversation that I had had uh with Stewart in particular, Stuart Holmes, about making sure that Crystal Towers residents knew about the conversation that we had about knowing about this development before it was more public uh information.

That was a misstep and it did not happen uh unfortunately, but the other portion to what I was talking about was about private development.

When folks are doing development and they're using private dollars, can't necessarily say or mandate that you tell the requirement.

And I mentioned that um on the mic uh last Monday.

But what I did want in particular was for when there were opportunities for any sort of dollars that were coming in, and Crystal Towers residents in particular could take advantage of if there were any job opportunities that would come up.

That's what I did not want to get lost in the sauce.

And so I did say lost in the sauce in the council meeting, but it was um particularly for that element, and I wanted to make sure that that was on record, and for that our yield, and I appreciate the time Mayor joins.

Thank you, Councilman Hall.

We now go to our public comment period, which is a time once per month at the city council invite invite citizens to speak to it on matters that are germane to city government.

Uh, the comment when the comment period is called, each speaker will be uh limited to the three minutes, and the total comment period is limited to a total of 30 minutes.

Public comments should pertain to issues relative to city city government.

City council uh may not respond to public comments during the meeting, but may address them later at a later date or ask staff to follow up.

Uh, speakers are encouraged to be civil and courteous in their language and presentation, insults, profanity, use of vulgar language and gestures, or other inappropriate behaviors are discouraged.

Engaging in such conduct may result in forfeiture of any remaining speaking time, and individuals who continue to engage in such egregious uh behavior after being told decease may be instructed to leave the meeting.

Speakers may use, of course, other avenues uh to pursue any matters or issues concerning uh items in city government, such as personnel, litigation, and confidential matters.

And I certainly appreciate your uh cooperation.

Um speaker signed up is Stuart Holmes, please.

And again, if each one of you would give your name and address for the record.

Good evening, counseling mayor.

Um, Stuart Holmes, I live at 1939 Greenbrier Road in Winston Salem 27104.

Uh I'm here in my not-for-profit role of uh the planning committee chair uh for the downtown partnership.

Uh part of my role there is to uh execute the tenure plan that uh this council was kind enough to approve, and part of that plan was uh better landscaping for downtown, which we've had some successes with that, and another part is the uh amphitheater, which we are excited to hopefully have y'all support on that, and I'm supportive of that.

And the good news is that we'll no money from the city, no money, no tax credits from the city.

And uh I heard some issues about noise.

Um we will have a shutdown at 11 o'clock, so there won't be any issues after that.

Uh, and we're really just excited to be able to have support for this project for the downtown partnership.

Um all we're asking, I believe, is just a lease of about less than an acre of land, which the parks and recs committee uh unanimously uh said we should move forward with that.

Um I won't take up any more of your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Holmes.

Uh Samuel Greer, please.

Mayor uh council members.

Good evening.

Good evening.

My name is Samuel Greer.

I reside at 625 West 6th Street, known as Crystal Towers, and I live at Christ Towers.

In the spring of 2024, I was welcome back from former CVS pharmacy that's downtown here.

And I needed to stop and rest.

I'm 78 years old, and I need a rest.

I'm not a young man.

No more.

I sat on one of the benches in front of 500 West 5th Street.

Well, I was accosted by Duncloth security.

When I told them I just needed to rest for a minute.

Next thing I knew five squad cars, the police came.

I know.

Okay, five police uh patrol cars pulled up.

This is the type of neighbor, blow has been to us at Christopher's.

So we want you to vote no to given him public land.

Especially while we're still waiting on city funds that were promised for repairs at Crystal Towers.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Greer.

Mary Bauer.

Mariah Barrow.

Yes, I might be pronounced that wrong.

Mariah Bayer.

That's good.

Yes.

Sorry.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Okay.

Oh, that's a great.

My name is Mariah Baer.

I live at 3624 Yarbrough Avenue in the Northwest Ward.

I'm usually here in moral support, but today I must use my voice.

While I am here, I would appreciate the sight of unfolded lips and heads rested on shoulders and not hands.

You are supposed to be our respectable leaders, and please don't forget you are perceived.

Dear counsel, I'm calling on all of you, the people that are supposed to move in the best interest of residents to actually do that.

You have made enemies out of your people from public housing tenants to your firefighters.

It is hurtful that you have watched us practically beg on our knees for support at Crystal Towers, safer roads in front of our schools, and better benefits for our firefighters.

Yet we continue to receive everything that we never asked for.

This amphitheater proposal in particular is like a smack in the face for our elderly and disabled residents at Crystal Towers.

They don't deserve to have excessive noise and traffic any more than the residents of Chatham Road do, even if it's before 11 p.m.

I must ask, how do you feel putting an attraction just blocks away from people that may never have a chance to experience it?

How do you feel to swiftly push for investment in new entertainment but not sustainment just down the street?

Is this another ploy to sell the building later?

Or is it tell residents that if they don't like it, they should leave?

How many times are you going to show us that our voices are only a value if we're in a certain tax bracket?

Today you have an opportunity to change your narrative, to be the leaders that care about people and not profit, to act as our partners and not our enemies.

So I will leave you with two more questions, and I will ask you to be open-minded.

Between Don Flow's estimated 11.4 million dollar net worth and roughly 200 Crystal Towers residents on fixed incomes, who do you think can afford to pack it up and go somewhere better?

Who do you think actually deserves a handout or a leg up here?

Think twice about how selfish your answer may sound.

The last thing I want to do is keep leaving my underpaid job and my overpriced apartment just to come and remind you.

We see you, we hear you, we don't feel heard, we don't feel seen.

We would appreciate if you could help us feel that way.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm a homeowner in the Northwest Ward there.

I've been there for nine years.

And um my house is just a couple blocks from this proposed amphitheater.

I'm basically at 6th and Broad.

Um I had heard nothing about this project.

None of the neighbors that I've talked to who live right around me had heard about this project.

And I will say the other folks are pretty shocked that we're talking about bringing in 5,000 people just within a few blocks of, you know, we're we're in a residential area as as we've been discussing in several cases tonight.

What I saw in the proposal was 5,000 seats.

I looked up the Dash Stadium.

That's 5,500 seats.

So that's the scale that we're talking about of bringing that number of people in, that number of cars, that amount of noise.

Um, you know, as I've heard, that's literally right up against the 200 people who live in Crystal Towers and a lot of other single-family homes are right there.

Um I would be thrilled to see more low-income housing, something like that built in the area.

It's not an issue of not wanting movement traffic noise.

It's downtown.

Um, but I work at Wake Forest University.

We have several amphitheaters.

Joel's right up the street, Dash Stadium has 5,000 seats.

I don't understand why this is a necessary project to put right in the middle of where so many people live.

Um, you know, causing problems for a lot of us.

And this is I love the diversity of my neighborhood.

I don't want to see that changed, and I'm afraid this project is gonna push us further in that direction.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Office.

Contessa Smith.

Contessa Smith, 3712 Foxton Drive.

Alas, here we are again.

How's everyone doing?

Good day.

Every time people come up here, it's this awkward weird silence.

No words, no answers, just blank looks, blank stares.

And I'm thinking, like, if I wanted mimes, I'd go to a circus.

But I wanted leaders, so I come to my city council.

Councilman James Taylor, let's be real.

You had time to scroll my Facebook page.

That was sort of weird, but you didn't have time to address my issues with the police department.

That's hurtful, and it's wrong.

That's not oversight.

That's like a nosy neighbor behavior.

And Winston Salem needs a watchdog, not a hall monitor with Wi-Fi.

Let's be honest.

It's not just my complaint on the record that's being ignored.

There this there is a public recording of an officer yanking a person's arms backwards up over the head.

Everybody's seen it.

But still, you don't call our chief out in that police department for the misconduct.

How can I trust you?

Your silence is complicity.

And we already heard from the county.

Just go along to get along, stand a united front.

But that's not right.

That's not integrity.

You should have a voice, the voice that we elected you to have.

And here's the truth.

The attack on our young black males in our community is misleading and shallow.

It's a scare tactic, I believe, to use to uh scare good Christian people in believing that black people are the problem.

And the solution you came with uh came up with was arresting black mothers.

Not saying that that should be excluded, but how shallow that was the first thing that you could come up with.

You control the toxic environment, and it shows the Northeast Ward and the East Ward look the way they do because of leadership, not because of the constituents.

We tried.

We reached out, you ignored us until the benign negligence and strategic negligence got out of control.

We have common sense, we understand what's going on.

Whether you want to realize it or not, we have we're continued to get into the fight to fight gentrification with illegal and unlawful precedence.

You have to be aware.

Everything is being monitored and recorded, and it seems that you're totally oblivious to what is happening into your own wards.

It's unacceptable.

A mother of five sons.

Absolutely.

There's a better, yes, there's a better way, Mr.

Ms.

Burke.

And it doesn't always go to just locking people away.

And also, while we're talking about things in the neighborhood, let's get some of the riddles of these gambling establishments.

Let's put it out by Jonestown on Don Flo.

Thank you.

Um Joanne Allen.

Joanne Allen.

All right.

Thank you.

Jason Thiel.

Well, good evening.

Jason Thiel, 515 North Cherry Street, Winston Salem, North Carolina.

I stand here to support the amphitheater.

Uh my daytime job is president of the downtown Winston Salem Partnership, and I can assure you that the Winston-Salem Journal has a separate copy editor that does the headlines from the news stories.

I don't know if you know that or not, but I say that as a as a when you're talking about the Scott Sexton article, that's what I've been told many times that they actually have someone else write the headlines because I've certainly waken up many times to that frustration myself, so I feel that.

But I I did want to say the downtown plan we do every 10 years.

This plan identifies many of the things that we'd like to see short, long and midterm in downtown.

It has many things in the project.

Landscaping talks about many different things, uses things that we'd like to do, parking, um, transportation, a lot.

The cornerstone part of the plan was the amphitheater project, as well as a skate park.

These are two big projects that we would very much like to build.

The skate park and the amphitheater would be something that we want the entire community to use.

We believe that downtown should be for everyone.

And we want for this to be an activity generator that we, upon a conservative count, could bring quite a few people to downtown.

As you guys have known over the last 20 years, our nonprofit organization has worked to do our part in promoting businesses downtown.

What we've seen since the pandemic nationwide, worldwide, is a change.

And I want you to take this very seriously.

We have challenges downtown.

People don't eat out as much as they used to.

If we don't do something like this, we'll see restaurant closings.

Business closings.

The reason I got into downtown development was to promote our whole community.

I don't believe that you can have a healthy city without a healthy downtown.

And I know this is important, and I can't think of a better way, a more effective way to do what we decided that we wanted to do in our downtown plan.

So I urge you to think about it.

And we want to do this for everyone in our community.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Thiel.

Dan Rose.

Dan Rose, 1332 Pleasant Street.

Good evening, Mayor Joins, Mayor Pro Tem, members of Council.

We keep hearing from the mayor last Monday, from Mr.

Holmes, that this isn't gonna cost the city anything.

Think about it.

If I had a Cadillac, mint condition, and I sold it to you for 12 bucks.

I could also say it didn't cost me anything.

You're taking prime real estate downtown.

Whereas Councilmember Burke pointed out, no one ever asked if affordable housing could be built there.

And so the argument that this isn't costing us anything is BS.

Am I allowed to say BS?

I don't say the whole word.

Okay.

So I want to bring it back to what is really happening here, and I want to tell you that this city has been built on a foundation of white supremacy, and it continues to operate on that foundation.

And I know some of you are rolling your eyes at me, especially over here in this little corner.

But let's talk about it.

Alan Joins, you began work with the city of Winston-Salem in 1970, 1971.

You were an assistant to John Gold.

John Gold was the police chief.

In 1947, when he was police chief, striking black workers at the Piedmont Leaf Company on 4th Street were billy clubbed by John Gold himself as he sought to break the strike of working class African Americans who were making moves for a better life in this community.

Now you were a pallbearer at his funeral, is that correct?

It is, I know it is.

So I want you to understand that when we talk about white supremacy, it's not something from the past, it's something that has continued on and into your decision making today.

You're gonna give Don Flo essentially free land.

Don Flo, whose great, great, great, great grandfather was John M.

Flo from Mecklenburg County, North Carolina.

The flows, their brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles enslaved 41 human beings of African descent in Mecklenburg County.

Don Flo inherited a car dealership empire from Victor I.

Flo Jr.

He is a product of wealth and white supremacy, just like many of the rich people that still run this town today.

I've got facts for you, right?

I'm not gonna give away their address, but Victor Iflow Jr.

Jr.

and Roger and Flo, they still live very comfortably in their 90s in a very affluent part of town today.

I don't want them to live uncomfortably, just like I don't want my neighbors at Crystal Towers to live uncomfortably as you continue to encroach upon them and ignore their needs, and they are dying from lack of repairs.

Thank you, Mr.

Brothers.

Matthew Mayor.

Excuse me.

My name is Matthew Mayers.

I live at 2844 Wesleyan Lane.

Thank you for this opportunity to speak.

Little change of pace, I guess.

I was I also wanted to thank you, those of you who were at the um the public works committee meeting last week.

I wasn't able to be here, but I did watch you from afar on my little computer screen.

And I enjoyed the uh the really thoughtful conversation that you all had about uh the purchase request for some diesel buses.

Um I think back what that conversation would have been like, or maybe just wouldn't have existed a few years ago.

I'm impressed with where you've come.

Thank you for that.

Um you probably also heard from me via email in advance of that meeting, or maybe you didn't see it till after.

Um I know that uh Councilmember Scipio did because she responded.

Thank you for responding.

And uh you brought up the question of could we possibly um try to stick a little more closely to our sustainability goals by doing a uh mixed purchase rather than all diesel.

And um so I'd also like to thank um Mr.

King and and Mr.

Fansler who reached out and said maybe that's possible.

Maybe we can do something to at least keep a couple of diesel buses off the road.

Um they're really bad for people's health, um, the people who ride them, especially, but people at uh along the roads at the bus stops.

Um it's uh to be honest, it's an environmental justice issue as well as a climate issue.

So thank you for all that, and I I hope that um that uh sort of a blended purchase can happen.

Um I don't want our bus system to have a bunch of unreliable buses.

I I know that you're in a in a bind and something has to happen.

Um there's just one other thing I wanted to thank you for.

I may be the only person in um in the whole county who would thank you for this.

But you raised our taxes recently.

Um I don't like paying taxes any more than the next guy.

But um if you want nice things, you gotta pay for them.

And we want certain services.

In fact, I'd be happy for you to raise my taxes a little bit more if you'd promised to use some of it for energy efficiency.

I'd love that.

Um it would also be, I think really nice.

I don't know if this is even possible, but it would be nice to explore the idea of a property tax uh system that is progressive in the way our income tax system is progressive.

You know, we already have a very regressive sales tax system and property tax system, but maybe that can be looked at as well.

I'd be willing to pay more than my fair share if we could uh see some more advancement on energy efficiency.

Thanks and have a good evening.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayors.

Calvin McCray Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim, members of council, and Calvin McRae, 525 Bine Street, Winston-Salem, 27101.

Thank you for your time.

I'm really excited about the future of Winston-Salem, but I'm more so excited because we have the people in the city who want to make it a great place.

I've been in meetings with many of you sitting in front of me today, members of staff across the city, and you're all finding ways to make this place vibrant for everyone.

If we want downtown to continue to expand and to grow, to grow our tax base, have the downtown businesses survive and thrive, increase residential living.

We have to do bold things like the amphitheater.

And I'm really excited to be here to support it, not just as the vice president of policy for Greater Winston Salem Inc., but also as someone who lives within three minutes walking to the area.

I'm excited to be able to come down and enjoy a show, have a meal with my family in a safe, vibrant place.

Once again, have been in meetings with many of you on issues of downtown recently.

This has come up and the thoughtfulness by which council city staff has looked at these matters.

I'm proud and thankful for you all.

Support this wholeheartedly, and I look forward to all the great things in Winston Salem in the future.

Thank you, Mr.

McRae.

Stephanie Brown, please.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, and members of council.

I'm Stephanie Pace Brown, and the president and CEO of Visit Winston-Salem.

I live at 2642 Coosa Drive, 27106.

I'm here tonight to uh lend support for the amphitheater project.

I think it's impressive to have the potential to accomplish this important objective of the downtown master plan only two years after its passage in 2023.

Obviously, it would be a great asset for tourism.

Um, but you know, there are many different um benefits and obviously some challenges too.

Um to me, the essential quality of this is that if we want to have local businesses downtown, we need to enhance the customer base and bring locals and visitors um alike to downtown so that we have jobs, tax revenue, property tax revenue, and uh vital local businesses in the heart of our city.

So I appreciate the many different perspectives that you have to balance with decisions like these, and I appreciate your time tonight.

Thank you, Ms.

Maham.

Anna Browning.

Hannah Browning.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim, and Council members.

My name is Hannah Browning.

I live at 2621 Winbrook Drive in Winston Salem 27103.

So I am a resident of the Southwest ward here in Winston Salem.

I am speaking to you today to let you know that I have concerns about this proposed plan to allow Don Flo to use public land for his amphitheater project.

Not only will this be a wasteful use of public land, but it will also negatively affect traffic flow in the vital part of downtown containing numerous churches and businesses, as well as divert routes for emergency responders.

It will put further strain on parking availability downtown, making it difficult for people working and visiting due to the lack of available spaces, which is already a major problem in our city.

It also will create higher risk for violence and discrimination against the homeless and people of color in the area, and will be a public safety risk by having large numbers of people at an open venue in an already crowded downtown area.

Additionally, this project will create a noise nuisance due to the number of people who will be attending the events and loitering in the area after events end.

Furthermore, it will contribute to the ongoing problem of gentrification in our city, pushing lower income families and individuals out of homes due to rising housing costs.

This amphitheater is not needed or wanted by the citizens of this city.

I implore you to consider the many adverse ways a project such as this one would have on our city and its citizens.

I would also ask that you think about the ways that this public land could be used to benefit all of the people of our city, including using it for purposes such as affordable housing, a park, a community market space, or even a mutual aid hub.

Please vote no on this proposal for the good of our city and its citizens.

Thank you for your time.

We have time for one more speaker, uh Paula Refs.

Trefis.

Okay, thank you, Ms.

Good evening.

Um, and thank you for hearing us all this evening.

My name's Paula Trafis.

I live at 845 Knowwood Street in Winston.

Um first, I endorse the idea of progressive uh property taxes.

What a great idea.

On the amphitheater, I I wonder why.

I understand that the city plan originally was to put the amphitheater on Industry Hill.

I I heard that the last time last week, and I wonder why that was shelved.

Uh it's a little bit further north of downtown, but it's not that far, and it would alleviate some of these noise and traffic issues that other people have talked about.

Um the the location between 5th and 6th Street, they're relatively narrow streets, and I think it could be a colossal mess up when these um, you know, the 5,000 people descend on the area.

On a related issue, uh the the private uh not the private, the city-owned land that we're talking about leasing at a dollar a month.

I do have a concern about that.

I don't think that that's fair, and I would suggest either that that land be used for housing or hear me out, uh, that it be rented at market rate rental uh amounts, and then that could be used for housing or even for firefighter benefits.

So thank you.

And paragraph A six to consider the performance of the city manager and city attorney.

Second book may pro to him.

Adams, all those in favor of the motion, please indicate the saying I.

Anyone opposed, that's your deadless.

We'll go into session.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Seconded by Council Member Hall to end closed session.

All those in favor of ending closed session, please say aye.

Aye.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

Second.

A motion by Councilmember Clark, seconded by Councilmember Hall to adjourn.

All those in favor adjourning, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, we are adjourned.