City Council acting as a committee of the whole and ask the city clerk to call the roll, please.

Councilmember joyner.

Present.

Councilmember Clark.

Here.

Councilmember Andrew Bowen.

Here.

Councilmember Scipio.

Present.

Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Here.

Councilmember Taylor.

Present.

Councilmember Hall.

Present.

And Councilmember Burke.

Here.

Thank you very much.

We'll proceed with today's meeting like we typically do where our committee of the whole we'll consider the consent agenda.

And then I'll recognize the appropriate city uh committee chairs to move forward.

So we do have consent agenda, which uh involves items that have are submitted in accordance with established city procedure.

Uh be no discussion of these items less one of our council members request which event the item will be removed from the consent agenda and considered individually.

Items not removed will be considered with one motion.

Councilmember is are there any items on the consent agenda you'd like to have removed?

I'd like to have C4 review.

All right.

C eight and C ten.

Okay.

All right, is there a motion on the balance?

Move for approval of the consent, the balance of the consent agenda.

Second.

Second by Council Member Hall, I believe.

All those in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Anyone opposed?

No, that's unanimous.

We'll now consider item C4.

Item C4 resolution adopting the fiscal year 2027 consolidated housing and community development program and the proposed 2026-2027 consolidated housing and community development plan submission to the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Mayor Pro Tim.

Yes, good afternoon, Miss Floyd.

Good afternoon.

As I've stated before, when we create these CARFs, or when the council needs to receive information, or the community.

And again, as I call it government speak, and we appreciate all of that training and subject subject matter expertise that you and staff have.

But I need you to break this down briefly as to what this really means because you have these dollar amounts in here and everything.

What does this mean to the city of Winston-Salem and the constituency?

Do you all see any improvements in the services being rendered in the life, the quality of life of the people that were serving?

Or we just checking boxes because we got money from the Feds in the state.

So in the last few years, our department has become more involved in community work.

So we're not just in our offices as um much as we were previous years.

So a lot of the work that we are doing is in the community.

So we're training um individuals in the community.

We're doing street outreach, which is something that we are funding through CDBG with city staff workers.

We are doing these events such as Project Homeless Connect.

Um we are doing that as the city.

So a lot of our um things that we have done previously, we are more community-based in our department.

We have done a lot more community meetings.

So anytime there's a new program, any time there is an application process that is coming up.

We no longer just post it on our website.

We're actually in different communities, we actually in different community meetings and making sure that we're meeting people where they at, where they're at.

Um as well as with homeless services, making sure we're connecting with other departments, making sure we're connecting with individuals where they're staying so that we can know the even though we may create programs that we feel may be helpful.

Um if they can't, for instance, last week we were told if we can't get to them, it doesn't really matter.

So now looking at okay, how do we improve transportation?

Um, how do we improve access to things such as restrooms downtown?

So it's just getting the feedback of okay, we're getting these complaints, but how do we address these complaints if the needs aren't being met?

So that's kind of where we have been um the last year and a half.

Thank you, Ms.

Floyd.

You're welcome.

Just a heads up to the city manager that uh again, these giving the council information on the outcomes of this.

You know, you talk of millions of dollars, and our constituents are holding our feet to the fire right now, just like everybody else across the country, as to the old Burger King commercial, where's the beef?

Where's the money?

Who's getting it?

How is it being used?

How successful is it?

Uh, we just again following our roadmap that we create, but again, it goes back to, and you'll hear me say this all through the budget cycle process.

It's communication and education for the citizens of Winston Salem.

Thank you, Ms.

Floyd.

And I move for approval of item, what is it?

C4.

Second by Council Mr.

Clark, any discussion?

Are we voting electronically?

Uh all the all those in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

Yes.

There it is.

It's unanimous.

Thank you.

Item C eight, please.

Item C eight resolution authorizing the abandonment of public utility easements at tax pin 5885-81-0112 for Longwood Village Develop development.

Councilman Scipio.

Yes, I just had a couple of questions on um this particular item.

One that triggered me first was it's outside of the city limits.

And so my first question was why are we dealing with that?

Um then secondly, it seems like um we're abandoning this easement, but is there any monies being exchanged at all with this?

So to the first question, Council Recipio, um, for City County utilities, all assets for the utilities are held in the city's name.

So essentially this comes back to the city council to abandon that easement for that reason.

There are no monies exchanged as part of this consideration.

What's happened on this is basically the utilities that were in that easement have been relocated.

So there's no longer a need to have an easement encumbering land with no utilities in it.

That's obviously in the path of a subdivision that's being built.

So that's what has brought this request before you today.

And there's no money uh paid for the abandonment.

Is there a fee for that?

Uh no, there's not.

Thank you.

I move for approval of C eight.

Second, my council clerk, any discussion?

No, and all those of three of the motion, please indicate the voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

Yes.

Oh, we're we're voting later on.

That's unanimous.

Thank you very much.

Item C 10.

Item C10, consideration of items related to the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget ordinances.

Customer Scipio.

Yes, I had a couple of questions just to get a explanation of the area um known as the grounds and how interest was earned, and it seems like we're giving interest to the grounds.

From an accounting perspective, yes, Councilmember Scipio, the uh agreement that we have between Commerce, US and US requires us to give all of the interest earnings on that money that's specific to that grant to the purpose for which it was granted to us, which is the grounds.

So that's the $35 million economic development project for which we are the pass-through.

That money did accrue interest while it sat in the city's accounts, and we are required by law to give it to them.

Okay.

That that was very good.

Thank you.

I was just trying to figure out how did we get that money.

Um and then there was um can you explain the fair dollars?

There were losses and increases.

Yes, ma'am.

So there are essentially two things that are happening in current year projections there.

Uh one is that uh the fairgrounds itself uh has expended a little more than we originally anticipated or the fair has expended a little more than we anticipated it to, but the bigger part of that is what the general fund contribution needs to be to the fairgrounds overall.

So we are projecting at year end the net loss to be roughly 450,000 greater than it originally was.

That is as a result of revenues coming in lower than expected and expenditures coming in higher in certain areas.

This will be part of the conversation we have tomorrow as well.

Thank you, because I was wondering uh what did we do that raised our expenses?

We can get you a better um uh um more detailed discussion of that, but essentially it has a lot to do with event staffing and temporary services and cleanup of the events and things of that nature.

Thank you very much.

That was all of my questions, and I move for approval of C 10.

If not, all those in favor of the motion, please indicate by voting yes.

Anyone opposed, vote no.

And that's unanimous.

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to the general agenda, and I'll be calling on each of the appropriate committee chairs, beginning with councilmember Scipio, uh chairman of the public safety committee.

Council Member Thank you and welcome to the public safety committee meeting for May.

Uh before I uh open the committee meeting, I just wanted to make a couple of comments.

I am uh a participant in our citizens uh police academy, and I want to encourage all of my colleagues to actually go through that process.

You will learn so much more about our police department and the wonderful people who are employed there.

Um it's just a wonderful process.

Is it's as good as uh city university that we encourage people to participate in that too, because if you really want to know how really outstanding our our different departments are, the best way to do that is to experience it.

And I'm looking forward to going to the uh fire department's academy uh when it's set up in I think in the fall.

Uh so now we uh open the public safety uh committee and we have an item, the first item.

Item one update on North Carolina Hurricane Preparedness Week and continue continuing of operation planning project.

Thank you, Mr.

August Vernon.

Uh Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, uh members of the council, thank you for the opportunity to be here.

I'm gonna briefly cover hurricane preparedness week.

All right.

What is Hurricane Preparedness Week?

Basically, it is a nationwide and statewide effort to inform the public about the hazards that are associated with hurricanes and tropical weather, and really a big push to put that information out to the public and our partners on how to prepare for those.

Uh certainly Helene impacted a part of the state that no one was really expecting, and we do uh get that pushback here that well, we're in the middle of the state, but I will show you we have been impacted by several uh tropical events in the past.

This was last week, uh, May 3rd through the 9th, and that was North Carolina's preparedness week and the big push of information that comes out with that.

And it's important to remember hurricane season starts from June 1 to November 30th.

And oddly it's not the middle of the summer, but the August to late October time frame where the most severe impacts will come.

Uh Helene was in September.

So every single year, uh especially now as we have a lot of community members that have never been through a hurricane.

And you know, it's almost like a new audience every year that we try to educate on the risk and hazards associated with all types of severe weather, including hurricane preparedness.

And I think we all recognize it only takes one storm to really impact and change lives.

So even though hurricane preparedness week is over, we're always doing public education, and we encourage all our citizens, our community members, our partners, our businesses to take all steps to prepare for not just hurricanes, but all disasters and crises that could happen.

So last week there was a lot of good information from the state, and Governor Jostein did comment about the fact that how destructive these tropical systems could be, and that Hurricane Helene was unique, and then all 100 counties had some sort of impact, and even more so with our winter storm last year.

All 100 counties had impact, and that was very unusual for that type of event.

So, as normal, uh every year behind the scenes, we're communicating with our partners, which includes National Weather Service, the North Carolina Division of Emergency Management.

Uh we work with our great partners at WSPD and Winston Fire in trying to prepare for these events and others.

And I'm not going to go into great detail, but the way they do these preparedness weeks is every single day is a specific day to share information.

So, example, water and wind on Sunday, prepare before the season on Monday.

Obviously, here we don't need to know your zone or storm surge.

Friday is a big one for most tropical events across the United States and including in North Carolina.

Most fatalities and injuries occur after the storm, where people are going into areas they should not and wanting to go out and see.

So there's a lot of good information that comes out.

Marketing communications assists us with that.

So we pulled some data and I didn't go back very far, but these are all events, and I'm not going to read all of them.

They did not directly come over for Scythe County, but they did impact for Scythe County and Winston Salem in some form or fashion.

And we we had quite a few starting with Tropical Storm Michael in 2018, all the way to Debbie 2024.

So we we do get impacted by them, and we're already starting to keep an eye on what the season is going to look like.

Originally, the storm, Helene was supposed to come straight up through the triad of the Piedmont.

So this is us ramping up for the event.

Again, a lot of this takes place behind the scenes.

But this is city and county and other partners, including our partners in the room, ramping up for that event.

You can actually see uh hurricane briefing taking place on the big screen there at the end of the room, and then that room transitioned into we were not going to be impacted, and we were able to start sending a lot of different resources west to go assist western North Carolina.

So again, these are some of those things that happen behind the scenes, and I just wanted to see that.

So certainly we hope we don't have to do that, but we're always planning to do that if necessary.

So, as always, uh I certainly need to take advantage of.

We want everyone to prepare for all these different types of events, including hurricanes and tropical weather.

Um we have a lot of different social media platforms that we utilize.

We encourage everyone to go to Ready for Scythe.

Uh, I'm not very good or familiar with social media, but I know I'm supposed to tell our everybody to like us on social media.

And we have great partners with marketing and communications who work a lot with us on any type of preparedness.

So that kind of I think dovetails into the next conversation.

How are we preparing for these type of events?

And wanted to kind of briefly cover something that the city and county uh pretty large project were getting ready to begin.

It is called Continuity of Operations or COOP Planning.

And uh starting around mid-June, our team is working with a very experienced vendor uh to start doing COP plans for every single city and county department, and that's a that's a pretty big win for us.

Uh every department will be involved in this project.

Uh the departments have made been made aware, and there will be some work that'll be taking place, and there's more information to come for them.

But this will be about an eight to nine month project, but obviously we're gonna triage it with public safety and infrastructure departments being the first ones to go through that process.

So that project will be starting uh pretty soon, and basically it's just a plan designed to make sure that we can continue to operate as local government and that departments continue to operate.

And basically, it's just a plan designed to make sure that we can continue to operate as local government and that departments continue to operate.

Whether we lose this building, we lose infrastructure, we lose power, we use water, we lose downtown, we lose who knows what.

And the plan will identify a lot of those.

We'll really do a deep dive on what is realistic and what do we need to prepare for.

And so we have certainly seen in the past few years, both city and county.

We have been impacted by significant cyber incidents, uh, weather, a pandemic, internet outages, power outages, protest disruptions, all kinds of different things that can impact us in the modern world.

Just as something as simple as losing internet now can become a big challenge.

And so basically the purpose is to provide us a framework that if we lose those functions or resources, we can very rapidly continue to operate and better serve our community, and especially on the public safety side, regardless of what time of type of emergency or crisis we're going to face.

So uh as always again, we encourage the public and our businesses to take a look at ready for sites to get more information on all the risks and hazards and how you prepare for them.

And here's our contact information if anyone needs it.

Any questions?

Any questions?

No.

Uh, Mr.

Vernon, I don't know what happens with hurricanes, but I was absolutely traumatized.

Uh when you say hurricane, I always remember Hurricane Hazel.

I think she may have come through around 1954, 56, something like that, but it was a traumatic event for our community.

So, you know, I think people should always take these things seriously.

Um, if you were to tell us the one thing we should have in preparation, what's the one thing everybody should do in our community in preparation?

Uh we call it blue sky preparation, is just to talk about what would you do if something happens.

Uh we encourage families to have that conversation.

We encourage businesses large and small.

We have those conversations with the city and county uh departments, is just to talk about what would we do and to understand there is some risk and realistic risks and hazards out there, and how can we realistically plan and prepare for them?

So thank you for everybody.

I hope everybody has their own family plan.

Thank you very much for this report.

And now we'll go to the second item.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Presentation of the Winston Salem Police Department staff members of the year for 2025.

Yes, good afternoon.

Mayor, Mayor Pro Temp, and members of the city council.

I'm Captain Mayb with the District 2 of the West Salem Police Department, and I've been elected fortunately enough to go over some of our uh professional and sworn staff and what they did last year and why they got nominated and selected to represent the best of us here at the department.

I'd also like to say that I will like and follow emergency management since they're requesting that today.

So you'll get a good new like and follow from the police department for sure.

All right, officer of the year is Officer Sherm.

Officer Sherm was selected for his heroic actions in the line of duty last summer, demonstrating exceptional courage and dedication as he protected and aided fellow officer injured in the line of duty while responding to a call.

In addition to his actions during this critical instant, Officer Sherm has demonstrated exceptional performance throughout 2025 as a member of the Field Services Bureau.

Proud to say he works in District 2.

And we went back and looked last year and we're comparing, you know, potential officers for this, you know, nomination.

Not only did he have that incident where he had the life saving and uh he came to the aid of the other officer, but he also accomplished top 10 uh in FSB for firearms seized, uh top 10 in felony and misdemeanor arrests, top 10 in uh illegal narcotic seizures, and he uh proactively sought out problem locations where he sought search warrants, he identified high crime areas with his and his district in beat and his own implementing long-term problem-solving strategies.

Uh notably Office Sherm took initiative in addressing ongoing criminal activity at key locations throughout the city as well.

So beyond just that isolated incident, leading in all these other categories, he really exemplified what we want for other officers in looking for proactive long-term solutions, and he took it upon himself to identify those problem areas himself and come up with the plan and work with those around him on how to come up with long-term solutions to avoid us getting those chronic call locations.

And so he did an exceptional job in doing that.

Officer of the year runner-up was Corporal Cheek.

Corporal Cheek drew from his own experiences and perspective and provided highly effective plan to curb crime location with long-term crime issues.

He saw a problem, presented a plausible solution, helped make it happen by leading teams in the field.

This operation yielded dozens of misdemeanor and felony arrests, narcotic seizures, recovery solar farms, and many warrant services.

These efforts were proven to be effective in a short period of time with maximum benefit.

So as a corporal, he did an exceptional job as well as the runner up.

He went out again, problem locations, proactive solutions, and look to develop the officers around him, which is the reason he was nominated and did an exceptional job for the agency.

Professional staff member of the year is Jonathan Lewis.

So you know, obviously, he looked for solutions internally and what that could they do better and be more proficient, and what are things that we could do differently to be uh better effective in his current position, evidence selection and is an exceptional job leading change in being part of that, and that's the reason he was nominated for professional professional staff member of the year, excuse me.

Uh the runner up to that is Tommy Leonard.

So Tommy Leonard is a senior uh analyst, has been with the department for 25 years.

Tommy's able to balance everyday tasks along with a very large project like the radio system upgrade, which was completed in 2025.

He's regularly called upon for his depth and breadth of knowledge to assist with a wide variety of tasks in the department.

Tommy truly cares about the department, his dedication is very appreciated.

And I can say that he's on call 24-7.

So uh with the radios, there were a lot of issues in the beginning.

Uh there was some hurricane relief efforts.

We assisted last year.

He came in, he got radios ready so that we could communicate with other agencies outside.

So he really went above and beyond and doing things uh to make sure that the officers had the tools they needed.

Uh Chief Penn.

Uh was uh chose uh Miss Brittany Gomez for the positive Wolf Award.

The positive wolf is a story Chief Penn often shares throughout our agency.

So the positive wolf is a story often shared that reminds us we choose each day whether to feed a negative or positive mindset.

The positive wolf of the year recognizes the individual who consistently demonstrates kindness, humility, encouragement, and leadership through their actions.

So Miss Brittany Gomez has an exceptional job as that.

Anybody that knows her know that she comes in each day with a positive mindset.

There's no problem too big.

She always chooses to be positive no matter what's going on.

Uh you know, she chooses day in and day out to be the kind of person that we want all of our employees to be.

So it's very easy to come in with a negative attitude, and she does not do that whatsoever, and it rubs off on those around her.

So those are all our professional staff of the year.

They've done an exceptional job, each individually have done things to get them where they're at, but at the same time, they make the department as a whole better.

Thank you so much.

One of the things that I have been so impressed about in learning more about our uh professionals in our police department is just how committed they have been to service, and so on these, I would love to know their length of service, how long they have been there, and also on uh Ms.

Gomez's um award, what is her responsibility in the department?

So she wrote runs police evidence, so she's over police evidence, yeah, and she does a phenomenal job with that.

Yes, so that would be great for everybody else to know.

Just wonderful.

Um, you know, I can really say that we have a wonderful uh team of people who work at the police department doing so many different kinds of jobs that makes it work for our community.

So I'm very happy to know that we're appreciating them with some awards and congratulations to everyone.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you very much.

Anybody else have comments at all?

Well, Mr.

Mayor, I believe that's the end of the public safety.

Thank you, Chairman CPA.

We'll now turn to our general government committee chaired by Mayor Potium Adams.

Thank you.

Mayor joins.

Uh, would the city clerk please call the first item?

Item one request for public hearing on an ordinance ordering the demolition and removal of a structure at 1135 Argonne Boulevard, located in the Southeast Ward.

Are there any questions or concerns about this from the council member?

Okay.

Um we vote on this.

Okay.

Uh may I have a motion to accept G1, please.

So move.

Second.

It's the mood and properly seconded by council members Clark and Scipio.

All those in favor, let it be known by voting yes.

All those opposed, no.

And the motion passes.

Thank you.

Next item, please, City Clerk.

Item two resolution amending a prior resolution to convey five lots for the development of five affordable homeownership units by Williams Development and True Homes located in the Southeast Ward.

Umager or I don't have a name.

I just have Michael Blair.

Michael Blair.

Okay, usually we get the name.

So I apologize.

Blair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

All right.

Uh good afternoon.

Because again, this is new to us.

And this again has to do with a plan to me of what we created almost two years ago.

And this could be something different from what we are used to seeing.

Could you explain what this is about and what they're asking for?

Absolutely.

Um good afternoon, Mayor Pertem, Mayor Adams and Council members.

Mayor Joins.

This is something that was approved in 2022.

It was an offer for the lots.

It was prior to the system that you all set up and approved over the last couple of years.

Since that time, as you all know, prices have gone dramatically different, uh kind of upside down on a lot of building and construction.

Um in order to make and can keep these affordable as deeply as affordable as possible.

They're asking to to do uh to amend essentially that other resolution and say it's one dollar instead of 20,000 per lot.

And previously we approved over a hundred thousand dollars to them to sell those lots for them to purchase the lots of the lots, yes.

That was the prior agreement.

But since we implemented this new plan, they came back and said, well, basically, we're doing the same thing that these other people are doing, and they're getting them cheap.

Can we get them cheap too?

Basically, right?

Basically, yes.

But because of the cost of the housing to build it now, as you said two, three years ago, uh, I guess that $100,000 would go a long way to the developer to try to keep the cost somewhat in line as to what they had intended.

Uh, would you agree with that?

Absolutely.

I mean, that's a big chunk of the budget.

I I would also say I've talked to the assistant manager right lanier, that because this was not part of the new plan, we now you're gonna have to bring back some kind of policy change because I think in and mayor uh city attorney, we're doing something based on something we voted on years ago, and we're doing it based on our new plan that we have.

Uh I would venture to say that this is considered a somewhat of a policy change, is it not?

Because five years from now, ten years from now, when some of us are no longer here, somebody could come forward with something else that and we did say with the new plan that we would have to tweak it as we go, learn as we go.

So, city attorney, please.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Adams, and good afternoon to the council members.

Mayor Joins.

I don't know that it's necessarily a policy change per se, but I do think that as a council when you're presenting with new information and you have new criteria and new information that you can base a new decision on.

You can certainly do that.

Um it would require, as you're considering today, council action since council made the determination before.

Um, but in terms of a an actual policy change, I don't know if we're quite there yet.

Um I think this is just a situation where you have additional information and a new request that you have to now consider in light of action that you previously took.

Thank you.

Mr.

Blair, do we have any other developers or others that we offered up the same deal as this years ago, two, three years ago?

I do not know of any that had a lingering sort of um approval for a purchase of lot that that's out there.

I don't know of any.

Can I offer a comment on this?

Councilmember Clark.

Yeah.

I remember the the Williams Company, I I thought was one of the few, if any, that actually paid us market price for 15 or 20 lots in this area.

31 property or 31 houses.

They paid market for.

And I don't see anyone here from there, but I do know they took some additional lots that I think are harder to build on.

And that's what I think these are.

But I'm doing that from memory.

May I continue with that?

Um the further you go in this subdivision, which is a great subdivision.

I don't know if you've been out there, but it is is looking great.

The further you go into these lots.

There are now eight left after these five.

Those lots, three or four of them may not be buildable.

We don't know yet.

And those are the darker colored ones on the map.

Yes.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Um again, I I would like someone to at least email the council if there are others out there that we presented the same opportunity to so we would know what to expect again.

Uh I have no issue with this.

You know, again, our mission is to uh provide affordable quality housing to the citizens of Winston Salem.

Uh may I have a motion, please.

So moved.

So I got if they moved and properly seconded by council members joiner and Clark.

All those in favor, let it be known by voting.

Yes, all of the polls.

No.

And the motion passes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next item, please.

Item three information regarding proposed phase two amendments to Chapter 46 of the City Code, noise regulations.

Mr.

Rilde, this should be interesting.

Speak up, okay.

Good afternoon, Chairwoman Adams.

Mayor joins members of City Council.

Good afternoon.

So uh this item before you this is an information only item.

Uh not uh staff is not looking for action today.

Uh but this would be considered phase two of our efforts to uh make amendments to the city noise ordinance in chapter 46.

Just kind of a recap of the goals of this of this whole effort uh one standardize hours and sound levels really to establish specific standards as opposed to more general language.

Make definitions easier to understand, clarify the rules for when and how citation may be issued and then update prohibitions and exceptions.

Um as part of this process, staff has looked at the noise ordinances in in a number of cities in North Carolina, mainly our our larger peer cities, and you can see the list there.

And uh and and we have borrowed uh language from some of those ordinances to uh to uh present the items for you today.

Phase one, as you recall, uh really was focused on our public assembly facilities, uh, in particular the you know the amphitheater that uh will be under development soon.

Uh we also added to the list of activities that would be exempted from the decibel threshold, which is basically 85 decibels.

Um you all uh made that phase one changes, those changes were effective March 23rd uh after a second reading.

So what's in phase two?

Well, phase two, uh the the real focus of phase two is on uh regulating amplified sound uh coming from commercial establishments, and it is focused citywide.

Obviously, we know of uh concerns that we've received about establishments in the central business district, and certainly this these changes would apply to those establishments, but this really does apply, excuse me, does it does apply citywide uh establishes noise standards uh for particular days of the week and times of the day.

Um and you can see there that the decibel thresholds that would be put in place.

So Section 46-6 uh 7 does that, and I've again you can see those as you know, basically Sunday through Thursday.

You have uh a certain uh decibel standards.

There's the same standards throughout the week, it's just really when those standards uh take place or how long those standards last.

And so for the weekend, like Friday and Saturday, those standards would run a little bit longer.

Um, and then you would we would have uh lower standards for your basically your your early morning uh hours uh during the day.

So uh but but the whole day is covered.

Some of the ordinances that we looked at were kind of silent on what happens after 3 a.m.

or whatever before 7 a.m.

and we wanted to make sure that there was a specific standard in place throughout the day.

So that's that's the first uh of two changes that we've proposed.

Um in terms of you know how we would measure compliance.

This is a complaint based ordinance.

So it's uh we're not proposing that we would issue decibel readers to all of our police officers and they would be deployed and be measuring uh sound throughout the city just to randomly or however you know you want to describe it.

This is a complaint base.

So if someone or a property owner excuse me, complains about noise, then the police uh officer would then measure the decibel reading, you know, from the property line of the complaint property owner.

Um so that that would be how the ordinance would be enforced.

You can see there that uh we do have kind of a repeat offender type language now in the ordinance where someone who repeatedly uh exceeds the decimal standards could receive a mix of civil and and criminal penalties, but it could go all the way up to an 18-month probation, which is something we did see in other cities where they basically cannot operate uh with you know have with and produce amplified uh you know music.

Then 46-9 really does add that language about what we call chronic noise producers.

Um part of how that ordinance would work if somebody uh if a commercial establishment is um you know categorize if you will as a chronic noise producer, then it may require process with the city manager or its designee for them to come up with a mitigation plan.

Um again, we didn't go through the the the pro the the route of creating some kind of a new permit process, which is something that we saw with other cities like Asheville, where where an established would have to get a permit to be able to exceed the the the uh the standard, but this is so you know we're trying to keep things somewhat simple but direct.

Uh and so these are the factors that would be uh considered you know in terms of somebody being or it's an establishment being considered a chronic noise producer, um, and then there's the noise mitigation plan.

So those are the the changes that you see reflected in the uh in chapter the chapter 46 amendments, those are the that's the language that's underlined uh in the attachment.

Uh we did shade in green the language that that you all approved as part of phase uh one.

But we know that we've also had other concerns raised you know in recent months about uh noise, crowd crowd noise, crowd noise and about cruisers, particularly along fourth street, uh though those types of uh concerns.

And so you know, after review reviewing the current language in the ordinance, yeah, I think there's a feeling that uh we have existing language that I think could address those concerns.

It really is a matter of working with police, city management, working with police on really you know developing strategies for how to you know to enforce that language and and and we've learned about what other cities have done, for example in Raleigh having a kind of a silent night uh kind of uh program or or deploying what they call acoustic cameras, which uh which could be very expensive.

So that those so I would almost categorize this as a phase three, really, of uh looking at okay, well, how do we address crowd noise?

Um and again the uh side of the sections there 46-2 basically is the the language about just loud and disturbing noise, and it listed activities that uh that would be prohibited because they could produce that, and part of it is raucous language, you know, loud music, that type of thing, and then 46-36 also addresses the issue of uh amplified music being produced on public right-of-way.

So I think that uh there are issues there.

There's language in there already about loud mufflers, uh, you know, mechanical issues, and we can enforce you know those types of issues under state law.

And then you've got the chapter 74 uh the code on sidewalk cafes, and as part of our sidewalk, sidewalk have a permitting process.

Sidewalk cafes have to close uh by 1 a.m.

I believe it's uh Sunday through Thursday or or uh Monday through Thursday, and then they have to close by 2 a.m.

on uh Thursday through Sunday, I believe that's right.

So uh a little bit longer period of time during the weekend uh weekends, but uh but they have to close uh by a certain time of the day uh or there can or the enforcement would be a possible you know, revoking of their permit.

So uh so I think that our phase three effort would be you know trying to figure out strategies really to address some of the concerns that that we've heard about crowd noise.

So what was before you is focused on amplified noise.

Uh but we we are aware that there are concerns about crowd noise and and just again part of this you know balancing.

You want to have a vibrant downtown in particular, you know, with uh being sensitive that we do also have an increased residential population downtown.

I'll be happy to answer any questions any should have seen all these hands go up up here.

Uh Councilmember Clark and Councilmember Major.

Where do barking dogs fall under the all these, or do they?

Barking dogs.

I'd have to go back and look at the at the details.

Um again, I don't there may be language in that particular that one section 46-2 that's uh general enough that may encompass something a situation like that, but I I'd have to check that.

Councilmember Jordan.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim.

Mr.

Rao, under the um crowd noises.

So that crowd noise, who's getting that citation or is there a citation?

Would that be the individual or the business?

So I'm gonna look to either the attorney or someone from police to answer that uh that particular question.

Are you talking about with respect Council Member Joy to the what he's put in the ordinance in this particular because again the ordinance that we're giving information on today, we're not really talking about individual crowd noise.

That's what you just put that in there as an example of some of the other concerns that we have.

Right.

That's part of the concern that we have.

But it is not what is being addressed today.

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Does that make sense?

It is, so we're only addressing amplified noise.

That's correct.

I can still answer your question, but I and I please, and I then I have two more.

Okay, why don't you ask the two in the end of the um this would be part of the amplified um under what conditions does the sidewalk cafe permits be revoked as it were uh um refers to noise amplified or otherwise?

Uh obviously there the well I can't good afternoon everyone.

Uh council member joiner for sidewalk cafes.

Uh I believe there are a couple of conditions that can be considered um taking a look at revoking the sidewalk cafe permit holders permit.

One of those does involve amplified sound.

There's language in the ordinance that I'm not gonna get the legal ease right, but it's basically uh if it is audible more than 50 feet from either I think it's the entrance to the restaurant or if there is a sidewalk cafe um from the boundary of the sidewalk cafe.

But um taking your first question in with the second one, that ordinance does not address crowd noise.

Okay.

Thank you.

And to answer your question about who can be fined in those particular situations, even though we're not addressing those today.

Um the business can be fined, but also the individual who is providing that individual crowd noise that would be violating um can be fined as well.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Councilmember Hall.

Thank you, ma'am.

Pro Tim Adams, thank you, Assistant City Manager Rao.

Um I do have a question uh in regards to the chronic noise producer.

I know that we do have um definitions like in particular with code enforcement when we're talking about chronic violators.

Have we identified or been able to um uh figure out what other cities have used as that defining metric of what a chronic noise producer would be is that if they are cited five times, ten times, fifteen times in a 12-month period, six-month period, three-month period, two-week period.

So a number of the other cities do have that kind of uh schedule of noncompliance, if you will.

So what what we are what I've presented here in the presentation does borrow from uh language and other cities ordinances.

Um I'd have to go back and check and see but uh you know if we have kind of what's the the schedule would be for us, but certainly something that we can add uh if we need to.

We just uh definitely want to make sure that there was kind of a progression so there wasn't just always a small fine or civil penalty every time there was noncompliance, but that it did that it would accumulate up to potentially a probation.

I think that's going to be uh particularly important as you um look at um implementing fines and you know potentially probation that that clarifying um timeline or um occurrence, I think it's gonna be particularly important, and I think it would probably behoove us to make sure that we are at least somewhat in line with some of our sister cities who have implemented this um already.

I also wanted to um Council Mr Hall, I apologize.

So we do have that language.

I'm sitting there looking.

Are you did I miss it?

46 9a one basically states that um you know the violator would be assessed a civil penalty of a hundred dollars for the first violation for the second violation within one year or the first violation of a civil penalty of five hundred dollars for the their third and subsequent violations within one year of the first violation of civil penalty of a thousand dollars shall be assessed.

Um that's so that's kind of the progression that that we are proposing.

All within one year.

All within one year.

Okay, that's good.

That's what I need to know.

Um thank you for that.

And then the other thing I want to um thank you for including the piece about the allowed mufflers.

I know that those have been um things that I've heard about in particular, and um for being able to cite that um estate statute there that supports that, so appreciate that.

Thank you.

Councilmember Andre Bowen.

Thank you, Chair.

Um Mr.

Rao, thank you for this.

Uh this is something that's been on my radar for a while, so thank you.

Um I think it's important one for the residents of the community, but also for the businesses that operate these places because it's it's important for them to have guidelines set so they're not breaking them.

I have a couple of questions.

Um this police department who will be offering the citations, do they have like a universal decibel reader that they have on hand that all will have?

Well, that that would be, I guess the fiscal impact of approving this is that we would have to invest in readers.

Thank you.

Uh, my second question is so that language uh reference commercial property or commercial owners.

Um let's say that I decided to have a house party and I had a band um and we went way past 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock at night.

Would that operate what the citation still imply for residential property like that?

So uh Councilman Henry Bowen, that that's an excellent question.

Again, the focus of this one is on commercial establishments.

I believe I there is a section here, 46-5 sounds impacting residential life.

I'd have to look back at that to see if there's if there's what kind of enforcement uh there is.

Thank you, sir.

That section.

Councilmember Burke and Councilmember Hall again.

Mr.

Rao, thank you for the presentation.

I just have a question under phase two continued, go back a slide.

I think where it says establishments that are non-compliant could be subject to penalties, and you just listed what the penalties are.

Uh should we change that wording attorney to will be instead of could be um with the shall be.

Yep.

Shall be.

Shall be shall be, yes, but could be uh leaves it kind of open as to whether or not being non-compliant uh will give them an opportunity maybe to correct the issue.

Uh thank you, Councilmember Burke.

We can certainly look at that, and I can talk with um ACM Rao about that offline and we can make a final recommendation to the council for sure.

So the language in an actual ordinance does say shall be assessed.

Just translating this into more layman's terms, maybe just you know that if somebody violates it, you know, they could, but but the but the ordinance is very clear that they will be assessed.

Okay.

They're found found in violation for various penalties.

Okay.

I can certainly revise the sl the presentation to make sure that uh it says shall.

No question about shall.

Thank you.

Councilmember Hall.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

ACM Rao, I do have a question.

So this is going back to the chronic noise producer.

That's the language.

If someone is being cited and someone is found being in violation, it is if the what's the same police department finds them in violation by the time they get there.

Correct.

So like someone, I mean, I guess someone possibly could appeal or say, no, I didn't have this noise.

It wasn't at this decibel reading.

But the officer is able to issue citation because they will have a mechanism to be able to detect that it is outside of the range of the decibel reading at the time in which we will adopt at some point based off of what's in phase two listed here.

But it is at the time that they arrive and um I guess measure the sound, correct?

That's correct.

I mean, as and certainly you know anybody from police command can clarify, but the way the ordinance is worded is the measurement will be taken at the property line of the complainant, property owner.

Okay.

So when when there's a response that measurement to take place.

Subject matter expert.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Mayor Pro Temp, Council, Madam Attorney.

So we have been meeting with assistant city manager Rao and discussing this.

So yes, that is how it would work.

Right now, the police department, if you the ordinance right now is based on a how many feet.

Um it's mainly for residences and vehicles.

So with businesses, we would uh have to purchase decimal meters and we would measure it from the property line as the ordinance would state.

We would have our cameras on that, but yes, it would obviously if they are charged, whether by citation or physically arrested, they would be able to go to court and have an attorney that could be brought up.

That how do you know you were this many feet away?

But also from a police standpoint, our first goal is compliance.

We want whatever business or residence we go to, and we've discussed this is first we're gonna try to get them to comply.

And um council member joyner, your question is could we cite someone that's the manager of a business?

Yes, but that would not be the goal to do that because they're there doing a job, and as far as crowd noise, that would be difficult, but that would be phase two.

But this is as you all know, amplified noise has been the big complaint from stakeholders within the city.

So this would this first phase will just be focusing on amplified noise and would be checked with a decibel meter.

And so you would have the I mean, obviously, at the time citation from the city standpoint with PD, you all would have your um the footage from your body worn camera as well as your instrument that you're using for the decibel reading.

Yes, and it would there would be a complaint because this would be complaint driven.

So if we get a call from a residence that this business is being way too loud, so we would have that as well.

Correct.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions or concerns?

I told you it was gonna be interesting, didn't I?

And it's good that it's information because when you bring it back again, you're gonna get some different questions and concerns.

Uh as long as I have lived in this city, there's always been noise.

Uh whether it's a business got an amp out on the sidewalk or in the back, uh, whether it's somebody's house having a cookout at three o'clock in the afternoon on a Tuesday.

We've always had noise, so it's just gonna be interesting to see because the world we live in now, how we're gonna be able to do this.

Again, uh, I agree with our uh public safety.

We really just want compliance.

We want people to act like good neighbors, not just good businesses, but everybody act like good neighbors and respect each other, you know, and the community.

So uh I am hoping that whenever we get to the residential piece, again, that's even gonna be more interesting because I was outside yesterday uh doing my raised gardens, and all I heard was motorcycles or these bikes, uh, all of it, just up and down University Parkway.

You know, I know for at least an hour.

They would go to one end, turn around and come back and go by probably to 24th, 25th, or Northwest Boulevard, turn around and come back.

They never came down polo or anywhere in that area, but you could hear them and they were very, very loud.

I know most of us have seen on the news that a lot of the cities they are getting a little impatient with these bike riders and these uh electric bikes, the ones they do the stunts, but also the ones that are the mufflers that unfortunately our public safety police have to go and try to respond when residents are calling that there's these people driving up and down on these little bikes, and you need to come out here.

You know, but we have other issues that I'm not saying are more important, but they aren't in some respect if it's actual priority crime.

So again, I would hope that when we finally get this pen to paper or whatever technology to paper on the screen, that we have done our job in educating the businesses, the commercial properties, the community, everybody, so they basically have a clear understanding, especially the businesses, the ones that will be cited, or as council member Andre Bowen said, somebody having a house party with a band, and it's a club, and we've had that too, that people understand what the repercussions will be.

Uh it's unfortunate, but uh, you know, we have to do our job, and our police have to do theirs as well.

Any other concerns or questions for Mr.

Rao?

Thank you, Mr.

Rao.

Look forward to phase three or two plus oh.

Thank you.

City Clerk, please call the next item.

Item four information about recommended census tracks for opportunity zones 2.0.

Mr.

Millet, welcome.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Chair Adams, Mayor Joins, and members of council.

Some of you likely remember that back in 2017, um the opportunity zone program was created by the federal government to spur investment by offering federal tax benefits for investing capital gains into designated economically distressed communities.

Those incentives can be used for commercial and industrial real estate, housing, infrastructure, and existing or start-up business investments.

In that initial round, 10 tracks were designated as an opportunity zone in for Scythe County.

Nine of those were in the city, ten were in for Scythe County.

So now we're we're quite a few years down the road, and opportunity zones 2.0 has begun.

Beginning July 1st, governors will be able to nominate up to 25% of their states' eligible low-income census tracks in North Carolina.

That process is being led by the Department of Commerce, and they are accepting recommendations from local governments, economic development organizations, and the general public.

So with that, city staff did review eligible tracks and identified those areas that most closely align with the state's focus areas.

So that is only five of 26.

Uh, but based on uh the analysis that we made, we are staff is recommending that maps numbers map numbers one, three, four, eleven, and twenty two be submitted to the Department of Commerce uh and recommended for certification.

On that map, uh, you will see that those are green here.

There is some um somewhat inconsistent language.

I think in part of the item, it refers to a track number, which is different from a map number.

So if you see track number anywhere, read that as map number because that is actually what that corresponds to.

So with that, staff uh recommend those five tracks, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.

Mr.

The other opportunity zone tracks, they stay in place as well.

These everything erased and we start all over again.

It is erased and it would start all over.

Yes, ma'am.

There is overlap.

Some of them.

I did check to see the overlap from the first oper first round of opportunity zones with those that are eligible and recommended in round two.

And I can certainly provide that information to council, but I believe there are three of the existing opportunity zones that are both eligible and recommended as part of 2.0.

Mayor joins.

Councilman Hall.

Thank you.

Can I go back to Council Mayor Protean's question?

There's projects that are underway that they can't really benefit from the tax benefits for 10 plus years anyway, so there'll be some carryover based on that.

That's right.

There are we are certainly not accountants nor uh attorneys when you try and find information on the impact of opportunity zones, uh, because reporting is not required at the local level, report reporting is not required at the state.

In most cases, that's between the investor, their accountant, and their attorneys in terms of that.

Um so Mayor Joins, uh our understanding is that that is correct that that carry over for investments already made in the existing opportunity zones do continue.

That's good.

Uh Mayor Chairman uh Chair Lalady.

The thing that I think we have to emphasize is that being in opportunity zone selected doesn't mean projects going to get money from the city or from anybody really is a long-term tax benefit to the developer of those projects, owner of those those projects.

So it is key.

And I appreciate the fact that you have been working with uh Greater Western Salem to try to identify those five tracks that we get to nominate uh as the most potential for development along those lines.

But as you hear from the law and in the end, it's the Governor Stein who's gonna make those those selections.

Thank you.

Councilman Hall.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Adams, uh Director Millett, uh, thank you for the presentation.

Um I think the the for the first opportunity zones that go at least till 2028, I guess for that 10-year period for the first designation, and then these would be opportunity zone 2.0 probably in effect after then.

Correct.

It is um I didn't quite catch the first date that you said, but the first round ends when the second round takes effect on January 1st of 2027.

Okay, 27.

And um, so at least for the folks that were in the first opportunity zone, they still would be able to take advantage of those um benefits of being a part of that first iteration.

Um what was the other thing that I was gonna say?

I think this is good um considering the fact that you know, outside of this, there's another like maybe 10-year period, right?

And so this is very timely, it's extremely important.

I think the other thing, just kind of like what the mayor says that this is just one other thing that developers can use in their toolkit, particularly when you're thinking about your various capital stack, um, but you have whether it's you know new market tax credits or low income tax credits being able to um have this in as being a part of doing development opportunity zone is uh critically important.

So uh thank you for the presentation.

Thank you.

Council Mr.

Mississippi.

Thank you, Mr.

Uh Millet.

I just have a couple of questions.

With the criteria being 25% of your eligible tracks, is that 25% of a track, or I mean it didn't include the 25% of all the land involved in the track.

The tracks are uneven in terms of land.

So it's just of your 26 eligible, it's 25 percent of those that you could only select.

Is that right?

Uh so in answer to your first question, yes.

If an if a census tract is included, it is the entire tract.

Where the 25 percent comes in is that um our 50 governors, our one governor in North Carolina can nominate up to 25 percent of the L the eligible tracks in their state.

Um there is a formula that was used where uh I believe the number is there are only seven counties that do not have a single qualifying tract.

Um thus leaving 93.

Each 90, each of those 93 counties is guaranteed to have at least one census tract included.

So that then comes off the total number.

Uh I believe it's 202 meet the eligibility criteria in North Carolina.

So once those come out, there's language that allows for um even after you get your one designated, if you have multiple that are available, those can also be selected.

So there's a population formula, so you throw all that together, although it seems like it might be as simple as the governor can uh recommend 25 percent of our 26, which gets us a little bit short of of the um of the five that we've been allocated.

There is a um a complicated formula that goes into how many each area can nominate.

So although we nominate five, we may not get but one.

Is that right?

Our understanding is that we will get five, and we can nominate five from the city of Winston Salem.

There may be other groups, and I I think I mentioned it is even open to the public.

So Joe or Jill's citizen who was interested in this can also go to their portal and nominate tracks.

So remembering from the original opportunity zones, the five that you've selected aren't the poorest tracks in our city.

So what were the factors your team used to select of the five?

What were some of those critical decisions that you made to select the five that you came up with?

Sure.

So I'll point back to the criteria that the state said that local entities should use when evaluating current opportunities and future opportunities for the tracks.

So again, that's business development and opportunities for business development and job creation, strategic local revitalization and pathways to increased housing supply and high need areas.

If you look at all 26 and probably even more than 26, there are going to be opportunities for all of those, or some at least some of those, and probably every track.

So it becomes a identifying what those highest need, highest potential tracks are.

Thank you.

Mr.

Millett, um it would have been great to see this overlaid on a ward map.

That's another thing about this council.

You know, we get maps, and then we got to figure out and okay, is that in my ward?

We need this overlaid ward map.

Also, if possible, we need to understand if we have the data, the data, which I hope we do, of the ward or these areas, the ones that were chosen almost 10 years ago.

What is in the economic performance in those particular areas?

Because I know that we have been voting on money to businesses and incentives, and we've been ribbing cutting ourselves to death over the past decade.

I'd like to be able to see, even if this is the government's census tracks qualified.

What's been the economic impact since we did the original opportunity zones in those areas and the ward?

Again, overlaid on a ward.

You know, I know, and and I'm not trying to throw you on the bus, Councilmember Taylor.

I know that he didn't get anything in that first round.

Am I right?

The first one.

And he was mad at us.

I am not mad.

I would have been mad too.

He didn't get anything.

And it was sold to us because we've on a tight timeline when this dropped to get these zone uh into the federal government, the state and the Fed.

But I also knew that over the years I've been watching, and Councilmember Taylor even says a lot in his statehouse when he's talking, the Southeast Ward has shown to me more economic growth than I know the North Ward has gotten.

He's gotten more businesses, more bigger businesses, more jobs.

You know, he's got his interstate, his beltway going on over there.

I don't, I had to fight for the loop around my side.

But anyway, I I need to see this, and I'm sure they'd like to see it.

We need to see, because if somebody tells you, like with ARPA, this is a qualified census track, okay, they're poor.

That may not be the case right now.

The communities have changed.

So we need more information.

We need more information.

And as you stated, as I read in the car, it's not just up to us to make this decision.

Again, I appreciate the subject matter expert of staff and other community uh entities that are in the business.

But if we don't allow our community people to have input again, because we fighting for that, and I'm telling you, I'm 10 toes down on that from now on, that we have got to allow the community to know it, that this is happening again.

What is the impact?

Because when we did it the last time, some of I got fallout.

A lot of us got fallout in my community, because the community didn't know, and they thought this was like ARPA in a way.

Money's coming to provide resources to our communities.

So again, I need a zone overlay, and I need data that tells me what the economic performance of our wards in these fire opportunity zones, as well as the ones that they're suggesting.

Do you understand that?

Yes, ma'am.

I appreciate that.

Councilmember Taylor.

Thank you, Mayor Protell.

Mr.

Millet, I love, and I think every other council member here would love to have every opportunity zone in each one of our wards.

And I think we all will understand that's probably not going to happen.

But my concern is uh based off of a comment or two that you not that you made, but you brought up something that I thought was something to consider.

You mentioned areas less likely to attract opportunity zone investment, and you mentioned areas that are most likely to attract opportunity zone investment.

I do know that map number 23 um that was included in the last opportunity zone, uh opportunity zones 1.0, uh that round of investment.

And I'm curious to as to why that particular piece was pulled out, considering Metropolitan Village, the East Winston Shopping Center, and all the good things that are going on sort of in the east end of the downtown area.

I'm curious why that was pulled out, and I'm actually thinking that we probably should advocate to consider putting that back in.

I'd love to talk about what we should do about the Southeast War, but I just think it makes more sense to consolidate all our economic development.

If you got a zone that's less likely to bring in opportunity zone investment way out, I think we should probably bring that back to the urban city center and do what we can to provide economic development for all of our areas and not just a few.

Councilmember Taylor, I think the the best way I can describe it is that change was not due to any conditions in map 23.

Um there are only five areas that could be recommended, and we found that that urban institute um rating reinforced the uh the initial thoughts on on three of those and on those other two.

And we found that that Urban Institute rating reinforced the uh the initial thoughts on on three of those and on those other two.

If you look at the tracks for numbers three and four, those include and surround uh Smith Reynolds Airport.

And both include industrial areas and residential areas there.

So I I don't think, Councilmember Taylor, that um it's a map number 23, that census track does not belong anymore.

I I think it's just a even we if we look at that 2017 is when it was created, they were designated in 2018.

When we look at that, we're even being reduced from 10 that we had then to five now.

I don't know where that ranked in 2018 when those were done.

Um so I would say it's not anything deficient in Map 23.

It's the opportunities that are in those two others to fill those not that they are slots designated for that middle tier, but two of the the two that are recommended that fell outside of the essentially most recommended um it was just not included.

I do understand that.

I guess my final question here uh would be if perhaps you could let me know where does rank what is map twenty-three fall on the rankings?

Because if there are two that are less likely, and if for example, map number 23 is most likely to bring in that economic investment that we're looking for.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't include that.

So um I don't push back too hard on this thing.

I like opportunity zones.

I think they make sense.

I just think 23 should be included in one of the one out of the five, uh, particularly because it was included in the first round.

I think there's been a lot of progress there.

Um if you think about areas around Quarry Park, Salem Lake, and some of the others other areas, Mayor Pro Temp uh mentioned, I don't think it's necessary to have opportunity zones around those areas because it's already bringing in the types of economic investment that we need.

But in areas like these, I think if we pull that investment, we'll have some challenges going forward.

So I'm gonna be quiet.

I save my comments until it's time to speak, and it's time for me to speak on this one.

So I'll be advocating for including map 23 uh in the five areas that we should be uh thinking about here.

Look at all these things and calls to go up there sometime.

Council member Jordan, then Councilmember Clark.

Thank you, Mayor Pratt.

No, Councilmember Hall is first.

I apologize.

Thank thank you, um, Councilmember Adams.

Um Director Millett, thank you for this.

I am trying to read and understand that you were saying the map versus census tract is a little different without having it.

Um and I'm looking at um the maps that actually show the different roads.

I'm looking at a couple of things.

In particular, I was thinking about um Whitaker Park area, of course, the grounds, a few other places in that area to see if there were um any of these five, but it does not look like any of these five encompass the recommended five encompass those.

I do know that um a few of those areas, 3.01, 3.02, I think 3.02 is on here, is a part of the first iteration of the opportunity zone, but I can't tell from here.

We might need another map.

Yes, that um council member Hall, you pointed out the um the the addition of the 2018 map was a late addition and did not have a chance to update it to reflect the map same map numbers of the other.

Um so at a quick glance, I believe that that 3.01 and 3.02 map that you uh excuse me on the 2018 map that you referenced uh corresponds with uh number map number 13 and number 14 on the current eligibility map.

Right, but that did not make it to the nominated ones, the nominated five.

That is correct.

Okay.

Oh, I apologize.

I'm reading the maps.

Councilmember Jordan.

Thank you, Chair.

So I'm I need clarification.

This presentation is not a recommendation.

This is I don't know how to be polite about this.

This is you take it or leave it for us to accept.

No, ma'am.

These are or this is the recommendation from staff uh for the uh five tracks that would be nominated to the Department of Commerce uh for consideration by the governor.

Um the the five tracks that we uh ultimately submit is a decision of city council.

Um and so what we're bringing forward is staff recommendation for that.

So in the budget process for us, we've been going through a lot of things, and as we rank things based off of a criteria, there's several things, you know, you have to make choices, but there's several things that rank really close together.

And are there tracks outside of this five that would be ranking really close to the five recommended to us today?

When we originally anticipated being able to nominate more than five, um, there was a number greater than five that did sort of separate itself from from the others in terms of a specific ranking, um, and I know councilmember Taylor asked about ranking as well.

Um that is information that that will need to get to you.

Okay.

And Councilmember Joyner, I would offer one piece of this, I think that we need to think about.

Um each county basically gets a certain allotment.

So for Scythe County gets five.

As Ken mentioned, there's one in Kernersville, and I feel certain that the folks in Kerners rule are going to advocate very hard for their one tract as well.

So it's I don't think it's a guarantee that we get the five in green that we're showing here.

There's a chance one of those may come off the list.

So you're thinking even more critically about what Ken's talking to you about there.

Um you know, and in working with Ken on this, I think some of the things we looked at earlier, maps three and four basically split the airport property.

And this council adopted probably several years ago a strategic plan around Smith Reynolds Airport and Whitaker Park as a major economic engine for the city and the county.

And so certainly maps three and four encompass that area.

I think that led a lot into the conversation we were having around why those made the list.

Certainly map one with all the things going on around the grounds in Whitaker Park also played into that.

Map 11 being close to the beltway that's now built, big oper big tracts of land up there that have a high potential for utilization through the opportunity zones that also kind of played into it as well.

I and I understand that sometimes criteria based on high or low, um the the potential for development and and growth, but I also know that where people put their energy, it could be blight right there, but if that's where a large focus of energy is, it becomes something other than blight.

So where people put their plan and their focus is what happens, not where it is the most just.

Thank you.

Councilmember McClark.

Okay.

But you do.

But I do in a sense that I want us to get the most bang for our buck.

And I am concerned when people ask, well, we'll relay these with wards.

Well, then we're not picking the ones we think are the best to win.

We're picking the wins.

We start making political decisions, or we have a public comment period, and everybody from this one shows up.

Well, that might be great, but that might be the worst one to nominate.

So I just want to be sure that whatever system we use will give us the best chance of winning.

I'm not sure what we win.

But I am concerned when we start saying, okay, we're gonna pick one from each one of the five wards.

Well, that's fair.

It may not we may end up with picking the five worst in the state when they start ranking them.

I mean, I I just think we need to ask ourselves what's the end goal and which five tracks will will get be the best to get us there.

And I and I don't know what the criteria are, and again, I I don't want to get in the weeds too much, but I want to be sure we're picking the five best that would do the best for the city and get away from this, okay.

One ward's getting more than another.

It doesn't help us if we pick them to make us happy and we end up with the governor writes and says, Y'all were the worst pickers in the state, uh, you don't get anything.

So just let's do it the right way, not the political way.

Thank you.

But I'm gonna inject.

You know, if our city was all about equity and trying to provide the best for everybody, we wouldn't even be talking about this like right now.

And all of you can sit out there and you can say, well, you know, that's not I know again, I was born here.

There's no equity.

If you don't make equity happen for certain parts of this community, it won't happen.

We didn't mind investing millions and millions of dollars downtown when we had East Western a stone store away.

We could have went ahead and gone up Fifth Street, Fourth Street, Third Street, and created Metropolitan Village then and done whatever we needed to do, connect the Western Salem State, the schools and all.

We could have done that, but we didn't, because we made choices.

And the people that made the choices weren't necessarily the people that's at this this table.

Right now, the grounds, I know what people are thinking.

I know about the Wake Forest Connection.

I live right around the corner from it.

I've lived on that side of town over 60 years of my life.

The fairgrounds, the Coliseum, University Parkway, the HM hospital is coming.

That's economic development that yes is going to spill over into the neighborhood of Boston Thermal with my family lived as well.

But we at a point in time right now with what's going on.

I don't think this group will make the wrong decision.

I have hope and I have faith.

But I also know the people that supersede these votes up here, they don't have a vote.

And if as we say, my uh mentor said, if you get five, you get what you want.

And all I'm saying is we're not trying to pick this by words.

We trying to pick this by equity and inclusion.

And I know those are words that don't nobody want to hear anymore.

But if I have an opportunity to advance East Western, which I lived over there too, to know that that side of town has looked like that since the day I was born, since they came through and tore down all of our community that thrived, the Black Wall Street, Business, Patterson, Martin Luther King, which was Claremont, Balgrave, Southbound.

We didn't do anything because nobody wanted to take a chance.

Nobody didn't think the people maybe deserved it.

Maybe because we didn't have enough clout.

Well, the world has changed.

And again, I just want everybody to know we, you know, we have an opportunity.

I know the governor gets to decide, but we all, a lot of us up here know the governor.

Got his sale number.

And if he's listening to the people that don't live in some of these communities that live a pretty good life.

But it's our responsibility, if we want to make West of Salem a place where everybody feels equal, the same and have a good life, then we gotta start putting our money where our mouth is and start creating economic equity in some of these communities that are still as council or Sipio John, blighted.

And I'm gonna end with that.

Councilman Mahall, Councilmember Scipio.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

Um, I do have a question, not for you right now, Director Millet, but more so for the city manager.

Um, so this gives you an opportunity to be able to be on the mic.

I I am concerned based off of the conversation discussion that we have um here about the June 7th time frame.

So I know that that is the date that the official nominations have to be in.

Is it June 1st?

Okay.

I thought it was June 7th.

Either way, it's I either way it's in June, but I'm almost positive it's the 7th, but might be the first.

Somebody can fact check me real quick by going to the North Carolina Department of Commerce website and and checking that.

Nonetheless, it is the seventh.

I was I was correct, uh ACM King uh told me the seventh.

From a timing perspective, today is May the 11th.

Um, when would we be able to?

I know we've got some additional meetings coming up, but they are budget specific.

Won't we be able to come back to this to be able to do a vote to make sure that we are within the time frame to get the nominations into the um Department of Commerce?

Aaron, is it the seventh, not the first?

That's correct.

Thank you.

Okay, the uh our intention was to have you put this on your next agenda next week, so that you could get this in before what I thought was June 1st.

Um I I don't know that we have to look and see if we got another meeting between now and then, uh regular meeting.

Uh council meeting.

We've got one on um June the um what what'd you say?

There's a meeting on June 1st.

Okay, so that would be our last opportunity because it's the online submission, correct?

To take a vote.

That that seems to be correct now.

I can tell you we we might what I was told earlier that we need to be in earlier than that but either way you as a body have an opportunity to put in up to five and it appears that you could adopt them on June 1st if you wanted to.

I think there's a couple the couple of things that I want the to say off of that is that but do I need to follow through with I just I I wanted to make sure that number one I understood but then two based off of the conversation with my colleagues there needs to be some additional discussion I know they've asked staff for additional information so I'm just trying to see from a timing standpoint where and how we can fit that in before it coming back to us as a body to vote because that's important to note.

That and that is correct so typically you got the two meetings everything else we've got in between those time frames are budget work sessions.

So you do not have anything else scheduled in terms of a time frame to have a council discussion on this topic what we have been told by the Department of Commerce is that if City Council and the business community come together to nominate five districts you've got the most likelihood of the governor then appointing those districts council can can do what you want off all nine of you could put in your five districts that you want to have out there and as has been mentioned then you'll just have to take the chance of what the governor or the governor staff presents as the 25 areas that are out there.

Knowing that we only could have five the question was we asked our economic development experts to go out and find the areas that we thought would have the best opportunity to get money from the economic opportunity zones.

I will tell you things like ward boundaries the ward boundaries from the last have changed since the since the first economic opportunity zones were put in place and they're going to change again while this upper economic opportunity zone is in place.

So in terms of understanding where the areas are that's one thing but the but the ward boundaries change that's that's got nothing to do with where the federal government allows these to be but we we've presented the five that we believe have the best opportunity to in to advance economic opportunity in the community and now it is up to council to decide if you want to use those five or if you want to change it to to the five of your choosing that and that is your prerogative.

Thank you and and uh one other question for city manager Mayor Pro Tim and the um business experts and business community in particular that Greater Winston Salem in you all have been in conversation with them and they have blessed, adorned, confirmed, supported, approved are in alignment with the five recommended census tracts.

That is correct thank you.

Council Sipio did you have anything?

Yeah I I wanted to um I love this discussion because my first question was what were the dynamics that made the dis decisions on these five and I think that at this point we as a council and a city must determine what we want the future this city to be and if I think about the areas where the grounds are going there's going to be investment there.

There's no incentive that you need to give on top of that it's going to come as will development at the airport but since the last census I have been so troubled by the amount of poverty that's in this community and where that poverty is located one of the things that I've come to accept and recognize is that East Winston has the highest census tracts of poverty and those census tracts were created by the city councils in the 1950s and the 60s and what they allowed to come back after everything in our neighborhoods was destroyed there's no other part of this city where churches were destroyed torn down because the whole area was declared a slum a slum implies there's no real ownership there were streets with many homeowners and beautiful homes so now we're at a point where what came back was the centralization and density of high poverty in one section of this town all of the food banks are in East Winston is shelters are in East Winston because oh the poor people live there so let's make it convenient for them.

There were streets with many homeowners and beautiful homes.

So now we're at a point where what came back was the centralization and density of high poverty in one section of this town.

All of the food banks are in East Winston and shelters or in East Winston.

Because oh, the poor people live there, so let's make it convenient for them.

So we house everyone in a section of this town with no hope for them.

They close all of our neighborhood schools.

So education was devalued, bust our kids.

They have no sense that you could have a school in your neighborhood and you can walk to.

They only know a busing, which takes away the impact and importance of education.

So we created this.

So now we have to decide.

What is it we want this city to look like?

I am so troubled by so many people living in poverty in this city.

That wasn't part of my life when I grew up.

We didn't see that poverty.

People weren't hopeless.

There were many jobs.

But I I'm real concerned that what we do is get deflected from what we're trying to do when these opportunities come for monies to help investors.

And when people see folks who are homeless and without money, we devalue them.

I think those places where you've got investment include a couple, but let's think about where we want economic development to come exist and thrive.

And how do we start making that happen for those who aren't in businesses?

You know, we do a little bit, but we don't do enough.

So I just, you know, I think the world of our staff, I think you think uh and you do wonderful jobs, but you're thinking from your own experiences, and you're also thinking that other people are just like you, and we have to stop doing that when we look at those who don't have as much because they need our care, they need our expertise, and they need our decisions made to help them have a great life here in Winston also.

So thank you, Ken, for your your efforts, but I hope you guys will rethink how do we also shape and help those who have the least.

Councilmember Burke.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim.

Thank you, Mr.

Miller, for your presentation.

I'm going to echo a lot of what was already said.

I'm not going to take a long time, but I think that uh with uh the census track opportunity zones, it this is it's essential that we focus on blighted areas, the high poverty areas.

When we look at our city, we have a divide on one side of the city, we have the poverty, we have the blight, we have the lack of uh economic investment, and the opportunity exists where we're running away from and where we're pouring the the census opportunities in.

Those opportunities already exist.

They're going to continue to thrive.

It's time for every citizen that we serve to have an opportunity to be part of economic growth, to be able to have health care on their side of town, to be able to have everything that exists everywhere else in Winston Salem.

And I know uh city manager, you said that uh the wards taking into consideration the location of the wards should not be what we focus on right now.

I think that what I'm hearing from everybody is we need to focus on where the poverty and where the blight is and where the lack of economic investment is and has been historically in Winston-Salem, for that to be where we focus and not on the wars, where we have people suffering.

It's it's time for us to make some changes, and and we can.

And I think that uh if we say that is what we want, it will be supported by our governor.

Thank you, Mr.

Millett.

Thank you, Councilmember Burke.

Councilmember Andre Bowen.

Thank you.

I figured I'm the only one who hasn't said anything up here, so I figured I'd have my turn.

Um I went uh advocate for map 19.

I'm joking.

Um, um I I actually wanted to follow up and agree with what many many of my council member uh colleagues are saying.

Um the uh I'd like I love that um Councilmember Scipio brought up the idea of where the um concentration of many of the the food pantries are in the city.

Um this is what I do for a living.

And um when I can um stand on one street corner and within a quarter mile to know where all my partner agencies are that are providing services, and that it's not listed in on on here as one of the top five.

Um and uh where my food bank is listed is located is listed as one of the top five.

Um I think that is important that we kind of redraw or the reimagine what the the map should look like.

Thank you.

Any other last comments or questions, Mr.

Millet again?

We we thank you for standing and taking maybe it's because of the business.

We've all been there today.

We all been where you are, but you've been there before as well.

But uh and and Sharon did give me a water.

Yeah.

I was about to ask for a chair, but I I'm good now.

But thank you so much.

Um we hope that you heard us all of you.

We are only advocating for the citizens of Western Salem, not for ourselves.

And I know that there are things that come to us that people, subject matter experts and others know better or think they know better, but they don't know us.

And again, we are individual human beings.

We have to sleep at night with the decisions that we make.

And sometimes the decisions we make, popular opinion may not agree with them, but that's a chance we gotta take.

I would hope that you and the city manager and staff again keep us posted between now and whenever, because some of us gotta make some phone calls, and that's me.

I gotta make some phone calls because we already seeing our elected positions eroded to a point in some degree.

And if we're not willing to stand down now for our citizens that need the most or our communities, you know, and I know a lot of people will say, well, there's no land in East Winston to develop anything.

Tell that the United Metropolitan, tell that to who's putting in the I senior sort of atrium, tell that to that, because all of this was just a a thought and a dream years ago.

And they're making it a reality because they realize the bridges they tore down Council City Mimiscipio from East Winston to to the other side.

Now over the years they want us to pay for to put the bridges back, and they tore them down.

So we have time in history in Winston, like most cities, where the time is now.

The time is now.

Again, thank you.

I look forward, Council City Manager has the last word.

Again, thank you, Mr.

Miller.

I'll never have the last word.

Council always has the last word.

That's okay.

But I appreciate that.

You can believe it.

Two parts I want to just clarify the original comments.

There's 25 tracks here that are listed as economically oppressed in some manner.

If we had our druthers, we would designate all 25 of those as economic opportunity zones.

We'll continue to do that.

In reality, I I know that the debate has gone there, but but that's not where you're putting your resources.

The economic opportunity zones is just one tool, and a part of the issue is where can that tool be most effective in the community?

And and that's ultimately y'all have to decide that to push that forward.

So we'll go back and do that.

I the only thing I I want to clarify is what I'm hearing is that you want us to identify the five poorest census tracks on this list to get back to you.

No, not necessarily.

I will speak for myself, Mr.

Manager.

Um I'm saying indirectly that out of the five specific tracks that were recommended today, it appears that we may have gotten four out of five right.

Now everybody gets a say in that.

Correct.

But I but I think we all agree that map twenty-three should be re-included.

So I think what I'm advocating for is just re-including map twenty-three as it originally was in Opportunity Zone 1.0.

I don't think I'm advocating for any particular uh zones in my ward, and I don't think anybody specifically is doing that.

So we're only off one, so this shouldn't be too far from what the recommendation was.

Thank you, Councilmember Taylor.

And I agree with Councilmember Taylor.

Uh I always assume that everybody is hearing the commentary and emotion, but we aren't advocating to scrap all five.

We're saying that four of them, you got right, probably.

But one of them we're gonna have to we're gonna have to do something.

Again, you gotta realize we answer to the people that we represent, y'all.

So if we sit up here and and negate what we know and act like, well, they'll be all right.

We don't have to do that.

No, but that's not gonna happen.

You got four right, and the county may get one, who knows?

But we're gonna have to we're gonna have to work on that one.

Councilmember Hall.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim Adams.

To that point, I think I guess um whether that's today or a different time, just trying to figure out what that one is.

I think that's going to be important for staff to know.

Um, particularly based off of the commentary today.

So I think if we're saying that we want one or the recommendation is that um one was missed, they recommended five to us.

That means one has to be removed, which means that I think it would behoove us uh while we're together, knowing that we have a tight timeline to identify which is the trade-off for 23 ACM King.

Oh no, that's you have to recognize him, not me.

Yeah.

Well, okay.

I yield, thank you.

ACM King, please.

I'm gonna be real brief.

And to and to Pat's comment earlier, I think the the idea of bringing this back next week to get some direction.

June 7th is deadline, staff's got to prepare these applications from scratch.

And looking through the formal commerce site, there's about 15 different columns of information staff has to compile for each one of these applications.

So I think the idea was to try to get some times where we can get these things in and make sure they're correct.

To Councilmember Hall's point, if the consensus of council is that four if swapping out adding 23 and taking one of those off there is is uh where the majority of council wants to go, knowing that will be helpful to kind of start heading in that direction.

Yeah, why don't we just ask council members to send to the city manager there your choice?

They're choice they're saying four end.

We know where council member is thinking of, so we send it to the manager so we can hopefully accumulate uh the those data and let staff move forward.

Okay, that would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Ms.

Fair one question, Councilmember Scipio.

Just so we'll know, um, if the map, if this map is showing, what are the boundaries on those?

Because I don't they don't go back to the other census tracks in the book, right?

Or they do.

They do.

They do match us.

If there is an individual map for each of those, and that's an example there.

Um that's being shown.

So that each one of those corresponds with either a yellow or green area uh on the map that was up there.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you very much.

That is all.

Uh this meeting is adjourned.

Oh, we got no.

Yeah, that's true.

I know it is.

I meant to be able to do that.

I'm not trying to steal your own.

I'm try not to be insulted.

Thank you, Council.

So the federal committee is adjourned.

So I now recognize the chairman of the finance committee for his agenda.

Yeah.

Council Murray Clark.

Oh, yes.

We seem to have done a lot of talking when we were 80% correct to begin with.

I'm still a little puzzled exactly what all that was.

But anyway, we will move on to finance.

We only have one item if the city Clark will please read it.

Item five resolution approving the use of $1,031,800 in home art funds for the rehabilitation of eight apartment units for permanent supportive housing located at $1,600 East 24th Street, located in the Northeast Ward.

If you'll please comment on it, and I'd be curious to know what census track this is in.

Seriously.

Okay, I might not have the census track, but for staff will give that to me.

Okay.

Um this is Home Art Forums funds.

Um, this is for a master lease project.

And about um April 2022, when we gave you guys a homeless update, we um referenced starting master lease projects across the city.

Um, an overview of funding we are looking to use in April 2021, we received 4.8 million dollars in Home Act funds.

So far of that budget, 1.5 million dollars you guys have approved for family services to build a non-congregate shelter um in March 2025.

In April 2025, C and I, Cleveland Avenue Homes was given $884,000 for four units of affordable housing, and then there is a pending progressive housing project that staff is still um working on that we are looking to set aside $500,000 on.

Um, and that is $2.8 million that has been approved as well.

A part of this funding was in October 2022 encumbered $2.2 million for Step Up America project.

That was for us to acquire a motel and supportive services.

Um, with that, that did not fall through.

So this um resolution also releases that $2.2 million to continue being able to um create new projects.

Um our axe is for one million thirty one million thirty-one thousand eight hundred dollars in Hallmark funds to rehab a eight two-bedroom one bath apartments.

Um the units are located at 1600 East 24th Street.

This one million dollars also um the actual cost for rehab is 928,620.

This is with the 10% contingency.

Um, what is master leasing?

The master leasing allows us to not own the property but to rehab the property and have um control over who enters those property this property.

So that means tenant selection in partnership with the COC.

We would decide who is placing the units, and that would be through coordinated entry referrals, priority populations and homeless shelter referrals.

The program use, the units will be used for agreed-upon purpose, which is serve homeless families.

Um the operating centers that will be require compliance by the owner of the property for program rooms and for tenants with service expectations, and then there'll be federal requirements since there will be a deed restriction placed on the property.

The deed restriction will be for the use of 30 years.

Um again, it does not require any ownership for the city.

Um it just means that the property must be operated in alignment with agreed upon use, which is housing for homeless program participants.

Um again, control does not mean ownership, it is tied to the contractual agreement terms that would be in a deed.

How that works.

So the structure, um, the property owner retains ownership, the city and property owner signs a long-term agreement, the city assigns units to program participants.

Again, this is in um connection with the container of care.

The city oversees the continuum of care, so the continuum of care role is to select tenants.

They will provide supportive services such as case management, life skills, um, and assistance with that, and they'll ensure compliance with any funding requirements for the tenants.

The owner benefit is um will ensure funding requirements with the owner.

Um the owner benefit is there's a reduced vacancy risk, and then they have assistance with tenant management from the supportive services that is being provided monthly.

So what we will pay, we are up for investment is the rehab costs.

There are no additional payments that are made from the city.

The de-restriction does not require us to pay any ongoing costs.

So the money used, the income that is coming from the apartments would be used for the continued management.

It ensures um intended use.

The financial impact, so up front, we have a one-time rehab investment for that 30 years of property use, and the benefit is that we'll have long-term long-term control of units without needing to acquire the property at a full market cost.

Also, it's the preservation of affordable housing units and the ability to rehab housing instead of demolition.

We have looked at the demolition costs based on the Urban Street Church that was demoed, and um it is looking at over $500,000 to demo, which will um deplete the demo budget within our department.

So the type of work being completed, so the contract is between the city and the property owner.

However, the city will pay a contractor directly to do the rehab.

So the deed restriction, in order for the deed restriction to be on the property, the city has to um have the contract between the city and the property owner directly.

We are um doing the roof, flooring, plumbing, HVAC, electrical.

Um we have had multiple contractors go in and do a feasibility.

We've had phase ones, um, complete environmental reviews just to determine the feasibility of rehabbing this property.

What are we gaining?

So we'll have rapid expansion of housing inventory.

Currently, we are um in a second issue where a lot of our units um that we are using for continuum of care for people who are um on vouchers are being sold and tenants are being asked to leave.

We just had another one today.

So it is very important that we have places for people to go where we're able to control um the tenants, the tenants' access to the units.

Um we'll have greater control over placements, a stronger tool for addressing homelessness, we'll have flexibility um on doing this again, whether that's scattered site or project base.

Um we'll have immediate access to housing units when we have um tenants available and ready to move into housing.

This is a faster placement process versus building something from the ground up, and this cost avoids us, um, is a cost avoidance compared to building new units in the ground up.

And I can answer any questions you want to do.

Two questions.

One there will be reduced rent.

Oh, that was the I guess we set the rent.

So we would set the rent.

The rent is um so every majority of the people that would come through this, the continuum of care are matched to what we call rapid rehousing or permanent support of housing.

So those are usually vouchers to expire or tenant-based rental assistance.

So that rental assistance will be tied to those tenants already, and so they would be, it's just always the issue of finding a unit.

So they would have a unit of the process.

My question is with will the reduced rent on these eight units be enough to maintain the property.

The fair market right now is about for a two-bedroom.

I want to say it's about twelve hundred dollars.

That's not what I'm asking.

I have seen too many examples where the rents are so low, and Gristol Towers is the poster child here.

Assure cannot maintain Crystal Shire speak towers because the rent assistance the federal government gives, plus with the rent they pay, it's not enough to maintain the building.

My question is, will the rents be enough that the owner can maintain the building?

Again, I think 1200 a unit is enough.

He also owns over 20 other properties that are single family homes.

Okay, but he's gonna get 1200 a unit?

Yes.

So that is the fair market rate around the fair market rate for a two-bedroom.

We rent out at fair market rate.

So councilman Clark, I think the the issue there is the the tenants that are placed in there would only be required to pay up to 30 percent of their own.

Okay, and someone else pays the difference.

Right.

Like the section will come out of the state.

Yes, so that's the tenant-based rental assistant and aspire vouchers that they are committed to.

Second question, even with the restrictions, can this owner sell this property?

No, not under the D-regulations.

They wouldn't be able to sell it for 30 years.

He he the property cannot be sold for 30 years, and we do not have any type of lien.

So um Camille, you may want to speak with the D restriction.

There is a lien.

I'm not sure.

D restriction is the requirement so that it would travel with the property.

That's different than selling it.

Correct.

You can sell property that has deed restrictions.

Can he sell the property?

We would whoever wants to buy the property would have to take it with the deed restrictions.

That's fine, but he could sell the property.

I have a problem with that.

I don't I don't know what the contract says.

I can get we don't have a contract yet because we wanted to see what the requirements would be from um city council, but usually when we do something of this nature, for instance, if we give a location money to rehab, there is um a eligible use clause that we place in about selling and um giving away.

No one's answering my question.

We're giving a guy a million dollars worth of upfield.

If he can sell their property, and the deed restriction is you only get twelve hundred dollars a unit.

I don't think that's the case.

No.

Well, I just asked what the rent he gets, and I was told they pay 30% of the income and someone else is picking up the difference.

No, sir, that's not what I'm saying.

I think that's what she said.

No, you're correct on the rent amount.

I'm talking about the restrictions with respect to the property itself, and like who can go into the property, is it restricted by who can live in the property?

Those are the things that I'm talking about.

We do this um all the time when we talk about affordable housing, right?

You can only ask you and the guy sell the property with the restrictions on it.

Yes.

I I would I would say councilmember Clark.

I think the the reality is I don't we could probably put a deed restriction on there that said the property can't be sold.

I'm not sure that's in our best interest, even if we wanted to do that.

If this individual goes bankrupt with his with his business, we would want somebody to step in and take over that property and still restrictions would be in place.

Are we giving this guy a lot of money?

He's gonna have a property that's got a value of eight, nine hundred thousand dollars.

I don't pick a number, and he could sell it.

With the restrictions.

Could and I'm hearing yes, he can.

I don't I don't think the contract hasn't been developed yet, but I think typically in these types of contracts, there would be a clause that not required him to maintain ownership, but will require the deed restrictions to stay in place.

So I think the answer to your question is yes.

We put the money into the property.

If he could find somebody else that would buy it with the deed restrictions that were on it, unless we prohibited that in the contract, he would be able to do that.

Yeah.

And then the issue is could we get him to agree to it if you put that stipulation in there?

Maybe, I don't know.

My guess is these departments probably don't have any value now.

Very, very little.

They're boarded up.

Well, we're gonna spend a million dollars.

Could he then go sell it for $700,000 and put that in his pocket?

And I'm hearing yes.

And nobody seems to have a concern with that.

I do somebody may comment.

Sorry, Ms.

Hall.

Thank you, Councilmember.

I don't know that your equation is wrong, but for clarity, um what I have seen is that yes, when there are specific deed restrictions in place for affordability, that 30 years is in place, the property owner can sell, but can sell based off of whoever the new property owner would be, would have to comply with the remainder of that 30 years, correct?

So so which was your first question, right?

Initially, was whether or not the the property owner could sell.

Yes, yes.

You're saying he can.

He sure can.

Okay and the person who buys it from him will have to comply with those um restrictions of affordability for the remainder of the um years, 30 year term.

Um my question was with so we we have already identified a um potential buyer for the property, correct?

Not a buyer, a contract, general contractor.

General contractor to actually make the um upgrades to the property, and then and then on the city side, we would have um the ability, your office would have the ability to say who gets in when they come in, who would be the actual property manager?

So the property management will retain with the owner, the coordinated entry is who um determines the tenants that go in.

So um that's through referrals throughout the COC system.

Which which you are a part of.

Yes.

So the city um oversees coordinated entry.

And then one other question would be um it would this be seen as temporary housing for a rapid rehousing type deal until something else becomes available, so you would see a pretty much continual rotation of people in and out, but not a permanent housing type situation.

So what we hope for um when permanent supportive housing is that it's temporary, but that temporary is usually four to six years.

So usually um it's people who are disabled who um we are looking at disabled families.

So you have to have a disability, you have to have been homeless for a certain amount of time.

Chronic homelessness, chronic homelessness, substance abuse, maybe people recovering from that.

Well case management.

Disability is disability, physical, mental substance.

So we do look at um disabled chronically homeless families are prioritized.

So these are individuals who will have vouchers.

Um we also have vouchers to aspire.

So the goal is to place them into housing and then at some point to move them into their own place with actual vouchers that are through housing authority that are not through the CLC.

So the COC pays for these vouchers out of their consumer care grant.

So the goal is to move them onto either the housing authority list full-time or they are able to retain employment to pay for their own apartments without the use of assistance.

And families are included in this not single, not a it's not for singles only families.

It's only families.

And then one last question is about um will there be a case manager on site?

Yes.

So supportive services is case management.

This includes life skills, uh dedicated case manager, budgeting classes, and everything else.

Is c does case manager live on site is one of the units reserved for them taking it down at the end.

No, because that takes away from the income that would go to the owner.

So the order services right now are through multiple agencies and um pay for through the consumer care grant.

Okay, but they do go out to the tenant homes, these rapid rehousing and permit supportive housing case managers.

Thank you.

Mr.

Mayor, you had your hand up.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um Ms.

Floyd, uh, if I remember correctly, the only agency in the city right now who provides uh housing for families is Salvation Army is that still correct?

Yes, they provide emergency shelter currently.

Emergency shelter.

Yes.

So this fits uh meets a tremendous need in our community for family uh supportive housing.

So from that standpoint, I'm very supportive of it.

Ms.

Clark, I understand I think I understand kind of where you're coming from.

Is that we don't want an individual to make a windfall on the cell of that thing.

But other than that, I don't think we really care who owns it as long as those restrictions are in place and it's meeting the needs that we want.

We just got to make sure that you know the person doesn't make up a winfall.

I wonder if it's a way, Madam Attorney, we could figure out some language that would protect us a little bit from that standpoint to make sure that does it.

If this is with the Salvation Army, I would have no complaint.

But what we're saying, we got an individual who's got some stuff that's boarded up.

We're gonna spend a million dollars to fix it up.

You've told me the rent's guaranteed at market at twelve hundred, and the and somebody picks up the difference, and he can sell it if he wants to.

That's a pretty good deal.

That's pretty good deal.

So that's what I was thinking.

If we can't do that, I'd rather give it to the Salvation Army.

Maybe we will put it in there that they can sell it to the salvation.

And so uh Councilmember Clark, to your point, one of the things in this resolution is that you give us the authority to work through those terms, right?

To work through some of the concerns you've raised here today.

Um we can certainly get together and talk about some of those things so that we can bring the item um to you as approved.

The list you gave, pull up your presentation to the other folks that have gotten grants.

Go back, go back.

Whoa.

Here we go.

Family services, Cleveland Avenue Homes, and I'm not depending, there's not having any, but family services is a nonprofit organization.

Cleveland Avenue Homes, I'm assuming is fourth neighborhood.

Yes, that's choice hours.

So the issue with that is that none of our current um agencies want to own housing.

So that is us owning housing is outside of the lot of realms of a lot of our nonprofit agencies, and it's not considered um something that they are interested in at this time.

So we've explored um local agencies wanting to own.

Also, um we've explored this realm because we currently the city isn't looking to own.

So I don't want city owners, I can assure you that.

So it's looking at what is vacant and available because if we look at something that there are tenants in when it comes to the federal dollars, we didn't have to look at relocation.

So it's best to find something where it is vacant.

There are some vacant properties, but they're in the flood zone.

They're not gonna pass certain federal requirements.

So it's not as many opportunities, but also with the agencies, it's not something that they are interested in at this time.

I'm certainly saying if we're gonna use public money, I think it should be for a public benefit, not a individual that owns some property, we're gonna fix it up, and he can sell it at his convenience if he can find a buyer.

Councilmember Clark, I I think there's there is another possibility in there with typically what we do with callbacks kind of arrangements.

Exactly.

And so I think if you get if if this is generally consistent with councils can is comfortable moving forward with it, let us work on some contract details that would do that that would basically not allow somebody to walk away with a windfall from this.

Exactly.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Mr.

Umre Bowen.

Um so this is something that I think is uh very exciting to me.

I do have a couple of questions.

So uh the proposal is a little bit over one million dollars for rehab.

Um have we quoted out what it would actually cost to just completely demolish it and build on I think you said that if we demolished it, it would wipe out the budget.

Is that what you said?

That's for demolition.

So we would have to be able to pay the cost for demolition.

Building from ground up would be pretty extensive.

Um we wouldn't have the funds for that.

Um the home art funds that we have that we're trying to do the most with, those are dedicated specifically to those experiencing homelessness.

So anything we bring forth with Home Art funds are going to be around homelessness.

And the goal of these funds is to build housing.

So it's very limited on what we can do.

And we've done the shelter.

So we only gave the 1.5 to a $32 million shelter.

So we're only with a contingency, we're about $200,000 away with double the units.

Great, thank you.

One more question.

Once the bid is put out there and we approve this, how long should it take for the rehab and we can actually start moving people in?

So we actually did a bid already because we were seeing interest.

So we've done the bid twice.

So after the bid is been done, there's a contract that has been selected.

There has been multiple walkthroughs of the building.

The phase one has been completed.

The environmental assessment has been completed.

So now we're just waiting on council approval.

Thank you.

Almost to Clark.

Oh.

Who's left?

Ms.

Burke.

Thank you, Chair Clark.

I just have a few questions.

Uh the first question is this what we call the curry property?

Okay.

And it's been vacant for how many decades do you all know?

Two and a half.

Okay.

Forever.

Yes.

Yes.

Mr.

Chair.

It was 2000 years.

Where the location is.

You really can't see it from when Cleveland was big and built and other houses was there.

But it's always been back when I was in junior high.

So but it's been vacant for about two and a half.

Two and a half decades.

25 years.

And more questions.

I think when we looked at it last, Aaron looked at it for me, it was 2012.

Yes.

I think I've seen it.

I think I know where it is.

You have, you've seen it because we've toured the area and I pointed it out.

Is did this apartment uh building uh so have a fire?

It didn't have a small.

So it did have a small fire, yes.

And so um the owner had not been able to make the repairs or get it back in operating conditions since then.

That's correct.

Okay.

And the um owner, you said that he owns and manages other uh properties in the city.

Can you tell us anything about those?

So there's over 20 um single family homes.

Currently, there we did check the code enforcement.

There are no co-violations on any of those 20 family homes.

Um, this is the only multifamily property.

We checked it, we checked it, I double checked it again this morning.

So there are no current co-violations on those properties.

Okay.

Um and he will be uh managing the property, these apartments.

And what is the value, the current value of this apartment building?

Um currently the current value was at I believe it was 400 um thousand dollars.

Last time we looked at it.

In the condition that it's in and in the location.

I would have to double check because it was I'm getting this mixed up with one other property we're looking at.

But I want to say it was either 400,000 or 158.

That's one of the other things.

Yeah.

We've worked we're working on multiple projects, so I apologize.

It's probably the 158.

And looking at tax value, 133 for the main building and 10,000 for the parking lot beside them.

Yes.

And the parking lot is in horrible condition.

And this valued at 10,000.

Land.

Land, okay.

Uh let me see what other questions I have.

Um I know that we don't want to own any apartments, any any buildings.

We don't want to be in the business of the housing business, but would it make sense uh based on your questions, council member Clark?

Would it make sense to offer to buy this building?

And we know that it would just be for a uh temporary uh period of time until we could sell it and get someone to manage the building according to the plan that you have laid out.

Would it make more sense to offer to buy?

I I don't think the city should be in the in the pro in the apartment business.

So uh I don't I don't have any trouble with it being privately owned.

I just think it needs to be some language put in the deed.

And if he flips this thing six months after we finish doing it, that's I I think Ms.

Floyd can answer the question of it.

I think the problem there would be budget.

Um we don't have the funds would be one.

Um we would still have to rehab the property would be two.

And the owner is not interested in selling under any circumstances.

So that would bring us back to the drawing board of finding another apartment building that is vacant, one, and that can pair as environmental review, um, phase ones, as well as um a contractor willing to go in, review it and fix it.

Okay.

With that, I was gonna see if we can get a motion to move this forward.

I can move, but I want a question.

Yeah, you go ahead.

Ms.

Ms.

uh Supio is gonna um have a question to comment.

Just have a question in your rehab, uh, if you could consider the first floor apartments to make sure they're handicap accessible.

Um and now I move for approval of this item.

G one G1.

G one.

G five.

G five.

G five.

Thank you.

Do is there a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Please vote on the G five.

Yep.

Hang on a minute.

Smart move.

Just and I'm gonna bet a Coca-Cola right now, they're back with a change order.

I can't believe you can fix up eight apartments being empty for 25 years for 100,000 an apartment, but we'll see.

Thank you.

That's it.

Yeah.

Now we can adjourn.

Thank you all.

Uh Councilman Hall, do you have a comment?

Yes, I just want to remind um Council members, our colleagues that the swap mayor joins um was saying that we need to have that to the city manager by tomorrow.

So whatever your swap is, your choices for the opportunities.