Good evening.

We're about to begin our meeting for the transportation committee.

Um call to order.

I have done that.

Um roll call.

I have uh lawyer.

Horizon with us today.

At this time we have approval of the agenda.

Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion to approve the agenda.

I'll second that motion.

Thank you.

So we have to take a vote at this time.

All in favor of the approval of the agenda.

Aye.

Aye.

Any nays.

Thank you.

It has been approved.

Now we have election of the chairman.

Uh I would like to nominate all the women also Johnson to be the chair of the transportation committee.

Second that motion.

And I accept all in favor.

Aye.

Aye.

Any nays?

Okay.

I it was approved that I am the chair person for this transportation.

Yay.

Okay, now we'll have our general discussions.

Um we have the speed camera program, so the representative for that can come forward, please.

And discuss the speed camera program.

Um before you begin, can you just introduce yourself?

Whatever I could please at this time.

Good afternoon, it's Captain Thacker with the patrol division of the Annapolis Police Department.

Sergeant Wayne from Traffic Safety, Annapolis was foreman.

And Captain Amy Miguel, an administrative services captain at you.

You may begin.

Good afternoon, and thank you, Captain Thacker.

Um in reference to this the uh the camera program, uh just some general conversation.

Uh in September, we went through a uh a shift in the police department, and Sergeant Prince Wang became the point person in our traffic safety unit that will be leading and uh being the point person for this uh possible expansion expansion of the uh camera program.

He has uh some basic information.

He's uh he's becoming our residential expert at many of these issues.

Uh uh Captain McGues and I have had uh a lot of conversations about this up to and including, and I think we probably need to talk about it in the city law office is also involved in this, is the uh actual contract with one of the vendors that uh the city of Annapolis has uh gone into uh this uh transactional type business relationship, and that would be Red Speed, and through all of the contracts that were available.

I think that our city law office indicated on some fair to say some uh deficiencies or timing mechanisms inside of these contracts.

Bottom line to all of that, and Amy can uh elaborate a little bit more in detail.

Our city law office and Red Speed are in contact with one another, and there's going to be a meeting, I think, within either at the end of this week, possibly early next week to kind of hammer out some final details relative to the contractual nature between the city and our vendor.

Um but it and suffice to say where we are with the expansion of the actual program itself.

Red speed has been out, and Sergeant Wang can elaborate a little bit more on this.

They have uh conducted some uh data studies and uh they did one phase of it.

They uh have also finished a second phase, and I think they're in a position where they're actually uh crunching the numbers, I guess you'd say, and we're waiting for a final report back from them.

Uh it was pre-designated uh through community input.

Uh we were looking at four locations.

Um correct me if I'm wrong.

It's uh West Street, about the 1400 block of West Street, which is near the public library, Edgewood Road, um down at the bottom end of the city, Tyler Avenue, and then also right out uh in front of the uh um city building office building here on Duke of Gloucester.

So four general areas that uh that the uh Red Speed was doing data analysis for, and like I have said they're in the process of just trying to uh put together the final report so we can take a look at that.

Could you please repeat the four roads?

I apologize.

Do you have the actual hundred marks?

Right, so it would be West Street.

It's depending on where the location would be.

We're looking at um between the library and um the uh the light at Russell Street, so it would go in that area.

Uh the next location would be Tyler Avenue would be around Tyler Avenue and Stephanie Lane, so kind of in the middle of Tyler Avenue, and then the third one would be Edgewood Road and Breakwater Drive near that area, and then Duke of Gloucester would be out here.

Um be mainly to uh towards the end by St.

Mary's.

Thank you.

Sure.

Uh and so can you explain this?

So the data analysis is being done by the contractor, and that is to specifically look at these locations for presumably for potential speed camera installation, right?

So are you are you awaiting that study until you we take the next if we take the next step?

Is that correct?

Correct.

So they've done one study so far.

Um the numbers seemed a little irregular, so I asked them to do a second study just to make sure we have an a more a better um estimate of the number of violators in each location.

So that's what we're waiting on right now from Red Speed.

Um last contact with them, they were having new equipment to measure the speeds, and that's where right now we're waiting on those results.

Okay, and so the study so the study includes all four potential locations, correct.

And is that um study a is that a requirement from coming from the state, or is that just a considered uh best practice to get the data to justify the installation of the cameras?

Right.

We look at you know, past uh crash data from the year from the year before um and look at where most of our accidents occur, and then also from officers' experience where we find the most speed violators in the city in these locations are probably the most frequent areas where speeding occurs.

Okay, and um so you so I guess at some point when you get the data back, uh are you could there be a situation where it shows that there actually aren't enough speeders to justify like what's what goes in the Red Speed, yes.

So they do have a number that they're kind of looking for also.

Like I said, they're a contractor for us, they're return on correct.

So they maintain and do installation and kind of do a monthly report on all these cameras.

Um so they you know it's an investment for them also.

So they do have a number that they're looking for um when it comes to number violations during the time period.

So um so part of our negotiation with them can be if we have because it Sergeant Wang mentioned that that the areas that we focus on are the ones where we have the most crashes and speeding, but that's not always the case.

We also take community input, and so places like Duke of Gloucester, which over the years they've done numerous speed studies, and there's not a lot of speeding that goes on on Duke, but there's a high perception of speed.

We know there's a big drive to get a speed camera on Duke, and if we can negotiate with Red Speed that they'll put a camera where they're not expecting to get as many speeders to recoup their costs for managing the program for us, then that's what we'll try to negotiate so that we can um you know the community is gonna continue to want them a camera there, and if we can put one there, then that's something, but it won't alleviate the need for other ongoing enforcement that might be needed on Duke.

I guess what are the well the couple questions that I what are what's the do you have a general cost?

How much does it cost to install the camera versus how much does it cost them to administer?

So we have not had a new camera since 2017, and that was a failed effort to add one on Farragut.

Um before that it was March of 2013, was the last time we had a new camera installed.

So I have no experience with how much this costs or anything like that.

This is this is not something that anyone at the department anymore has any experience with.

Okay.

Um do you or maybe the law office know like what are the what are the provisions in the contract as far as how the locations are set?

Because how much of that is going to be up to the department, how much is up to the the consultant, and how much is how much ability does the council have to be able to say look, well, we constituents want one on whatever street, and we're gonna add that to the budget and get it funded.

So, like what what how does what does the contract say about the placement?

That it's part of negotiations, that it's not a given that they will put cameras wherever we want them.

They have to be within policy, and then they have to be also in a way that makes sense for them as a business.

So there's no provision that says that we can force them to put cameras where they don't want to put cameras.

Yeah, that seems odd.

I because I mean we ultimately are the ones who create the uh allocate the funding for the program, right?

Um it's not up to the there is no funding for the program.

So this is all going to be paid for through the it's paid for by the fees that they charge per ticket.

Uh you know, they get a part of the violation.

Were those fees set presumably by us?

They're in the contract.

I mean, yeah, but I mean they're presumed they're in our fee schedule somewhere.

You you the council set a fee schedule for the speed cameras last year, you increase the fines.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

And so that's set by code.

Yes.

Um but okay.

All right.

Well, I'll take a break here, but um it just sounds a little frustrating because we've had another bad case where you know, a recent contract we've had which removed a lot of our controls to be able to do things as far as um you know.

Right, and forcement.

And I'd hate to have the same thing happen with speed cameras.

Right.

And like Captain Thacker said, we're kind of in the middle of something with them with the office of law.

I don't think it'd be fair to dissect the contract while we're in the middle of looking at it and figuring out what the what's happening.

Um, so I can't really speak to that part of it right now, but it is in the works with the Office of Law.

Okay.

Thank you.

Now we'll have um question by um Alaman Shannon.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

So the reason we have to go through these studies and negotiations is because we pass off these enforcements to a contractor.

We're not handling that internally.

Is that a correct understanding?

The management, the implementation, the actual work to go out and install the camera, the management of the cameras themselves, whether they need servicing, uh they provide all of that equipment up front.

They take a they take a cut of all the fees that are assessed for all the violations.

The role that Sergeant Wang and the traffic safety unit do is they actually get a snapshot of the violation, and they then as sworn officers look at the violation and confirm that it's a violation to make it something can be mailed out to the owner of the vehicle.

Okay.

So essentially the reason we're going this route is we don't have to pay anything, any upfront costs.

We only make money, we don't lose money in installation or maintenance, but as a side effect of that, we give the contractor a lot of authority in where they choose to put it, is well, we haven't so like I said, we haven't had any new cameras since 2017, and that was Farragut Road, which was at a community request, but it also created a community uproar when it was placed there and subsequently was taken down.

Is well, we haven't, so like I said, we haven't had any new cameras since 2017, and that was Farragut Road, which was at a community request, but it also created a community uproar when it was placed there and subsequently was taken down.

It really wasn't in an area that should have had a camera because it's not a school zone on Farragut.

Um, but that was the decision that was made at the time.

So from that experience, I would say, you know, obviously we had them put a camera where there was not a good spot for a camera.

Um so I don't think we're gonna have an issue getting cameras in the areas that we've pinpointed.

I think until yeah, we have these contract issues to work out, but I think until we have a problem, it's we're speculating that we're gonna have a problem.

Okay, but is my understanding though that as part of this deal, we don't pay upfront costs, but the contractor gets to decide where to put it.

Is that a correct understanding?

No, I mean we're asking them to look at these locations, so we're deciding to tell them where to put them.

It's not like they're coming to us with locations they want to put cameras.

Okay, but do they have the ability to say no, we don't want to because we don't think this will be profitable?

According to our contract right now, yes, they do.

Okay, but we are working on renegotiating that part, correct?

We are working on the contract.

Okay.

Um, so I guess what I want to know is what would be the potential costs per year if we were to take over it directly.

Um I understand wanting to try and find a way to do this efficiently.

Um we want to watch out for taxpayer dollars.

We want to try and find ways where we can do this with a financially sustainable and responsible manner, but also being cognizant of if a contractor decides we don't want to do it here because we don't find it profitable.

Um that does put us in a bit of a lost amount of control.

So do you do you have any idea what it would cost if we just had entire direct control of the program ourselves?

I don't.

Um I don't know another agency in Maryland that has that runs it themselves, their program, Montgomery County, An Rondo County, um, PG County, Baltimore City, they all have companies that they call in to manage this for them because it's it's the camera installation and maintenance.

There has to be m monthly regular calibration.

Those people have to come to court if there's issues with um challenging the the camera, then there's you know, something goes wrong.

You have to have the person who calibrates it has to be able to fix it.

Um, then you have to send out the site the citations for it.

So it requires a system where you're sending out mass mailings, and you know, so it's a whole it's it's not just a job for one person, it would be um a whole system of doing it, and we outsource a lot of like bill pay things because they are kind of complicated.

So I'm happy to look and see if there's any agencies in Maryland that um do run their own program and how they do it.

I'm certainly, you know.

I would be curious if any do, but I had not taken into account all of the other logistics about that, so I am glad you explained that out to me.

Yeah, I mean it I I would love for us to do more ourselves, and and even if you know, I think one of the ways the city can look at um making things more economical is really trying to get Anne Ronda County to see us as an integral part of the county, and when they are doing something, you know, so like Anondo County's contract, they piggybacked off Montgomery County's contract with the with the speed cameras, you know, and um they didn't call us to ask what our cameras, you know, how we run our cameras, you know, and uh it's like they could have, you know, we could have used the same company, and then maybe there'd be a benefit in having a countywide, you know, system.

But regardless, I just think it's something to keep in mind that that um when we do things and and only think of you know whether it's the county or us, like we sometimes need to think, and I'm not you know, I try to do that.

Are we using the same company as Anorondo County?

Or no, they use a different company.

Okay.

Um so I guess for me, the million dollar question is when do we think we can put these cameras down?

Um I know Tyler Avenue is not on my ward, but I have a constituent who works and assists uh as a crossing guard there, and she less than gently yells it at me during uh campaign time about how there are speeders and we weren't doing enough, and um well, honestly, I couldn't exactly disagree.

Uh beyond, hey, we're working on it with cameras.

Uh so I told her we were having this meeting to get an update, and uh can I give her good news or am I gonna get yelled at when I call her?

We completely understand.

We know that you want to be able to report back to your constituents a time frame.

And the best answer that I can give to you right now without um we really don't know.

So the contractual aspect needs to be taken in depth look at when we get the data back, and then conversations with Red Speed themselves about possible installation to the four locations that we just talked about, maybe three.

Then it would be the implementation phase.

So that's like engineering aspect.

Uh have to have a power source, have to be able to get the permits to be able to put them in, and where are they physically going to be, what line of sight?

So some there's a process of that, that's a amount of time, and then finally the full rollout.

So I can't give you a phased-in exact time.

Uh I don't even want to speculate and say a goal would be within six months or a year, but as soon as we efficiently can get everything in order in specificity to make sure that it's correct.

Again, if you if we look back at 2017 and the implementation or the rollout wasn't done correctly, and I I would I think it's fair to say that that caused problems, and we don't want to revisit that.

Um I'm glad you mentioned the process of installation and requiring permits, etc.

Um would you be able to get us and work with public works on what our code requires for permits and where we can find ways to streamline that process to install speed cameras because I want when we finally approve these locations and get everything ready, I want that to go as quickly and smoothly as possible without long drawn-out meetings, long planning commission hearings, hypothetically, board of appeals hearings hypothetically, and then three months in the planning and zoning office.

I want us to be able to get a permit that day and be able to plug it in within a week.

Um so if you wouldn't mind teaming up with uh public works and figuring out what permits and processes needed and where we can find some streamlining, I would greatly appreciate that.

Sure.

Um I just wanted to mention so three of the four locations are city streets, so we don't need any kind of permits for those.

Oh as long as we can get public works um, which we're working with also to um they're gonna come out and make sure once we are ready for installation implementation, we'll have a member of public works come out, one of their engineers just to make sure the location is is viable um for co you know to make sure it's within code.

Okay the only location that we do need um permission is West Street, which is a state highway, but also working with public works, he has knowledge on that process to get the permits.

Okay, thank you.

Well, I want to ask the question at this time.

Um are there a certain amount of cameras we can have in the city, or if if I find by me being new, if I find an area that I would like the issue, um maybe getting a speed cameras because do I notify you guys or how how do I go about it?

You can um the limitations on speed cameras deal with the location.

So the state law has specified that cameras can be put in school zones, and those cameras are operated eight to eight, six to six to eight.

Six a.m.

till eight p.m.

Yeah, six a.m.

to eight p.m.

Um Monday through Friday.

Um and then they recently expanded the location to also include area residential areas where the speed limit is 35 miles per hour or lower.

Um and for it to be a residential area, it has to have a believe 300 feet.

Yes, 300 feet of residences.

So it's not how it's zoned, so it's not has anything to do with the city zoning, but it has to do with 300 feet of roadway with residences along it.

So that does somewhat limit, you know, where we can put a camera.

And then the citations only are issued if someone's going at least 12 miles over the speed limit.

So if someone is complaining about speed on their street and it's a 25, you know, most people are still going under 35.

It's just they it's, you know.

But we're happy to do speed enforcement.

So Sergeant Wang is the sergeant in charge of traffic safety.

So if you pass along any complaints about that, that those type of things to Captain Thacker, he can make sure that both the traffic safety unit and the patrol officers do enforcement you know in those areas.

And we always say the squeaky wheel uh gets the oil.

So like, you know, if we get a complaint, they'll do like like Tyler and Stephanie's is a is a frequent place where our traffic safety goes out and does enforcement because the elementary school on Janwall and people you know cut through between Forest Drive and Hilltop.

And uh, you know, they go out there regularly.

Uh other areas they may only go out for a couple weeks after they get a complaint, and then they'll kind of lay off, and so then the resident will be like, well, they were doing it and now they stopped.

It's just kind of you know, they're always moving different locations.

Oh, okay.

Thank you very much.

Is there anything else?

Um Yeah, thank you.

Uh just a few follow-up points.

Uh so was this contract something that was put out to bid?

Um at the time, yes.

Okay.

And how many people, how many firms do we have actually get back?

I have no idea.

That was 2013.

That's how long we've had this contract.

The contract is that old?

It's been amended and amended.

It's been amended and such over the years.

I've not been involved in any of the renewals, so but now we're working on it.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, it was 2022.

Was the last like major update?

Major update in my experience in the county, it contracts typically don't extend last that long.

Well, this isn't directed to you.

I'm just off to I think I'm gonna ask our purchasing department because that's really odd to have a contract that old for this kind of thing, but I think you know, um I think it's an issue that you know, with um a lot of different personnel changes and things like that.

So we're working on it.

Well, so does law office know or you perhaps like is there a provision we can utilize just to say, look, it's we just need to get let's cancel this contract, we need to get new one in place, put it out to bid.

I think that's a conversation that I'll have with the office of law.

I can ask Ashley, she's obviously the contract person in our office, so I can ask her and then circle back.

Okay.

Um, speed's up in July.

I guess it might be a good opportunity.

I mean, it sounds like the county already has some kind of piggyback agreement with Montgomery County, you said.

But um, I'll follow up with city manager on that.

Um, I guess it um could law office also just ask Ashley to Miss Leonard to provide a summary on just the existing, or at least send the contractor provide some summary of the existing conditions.

Uh because I'm also curious, another reason I think perhaps to have a new contract, you know, one of the reasons obviously the primary reason for having these is safety.

Uh and part of our understanding of of what was authorized from the state is that and what we did locally is authorize some of the money after administration costs that they can go towards actual safety projects.

And so I know it's one of the things on my mind is under the contract, you know, what's an estimation based on the fee and the administration costs, how much money would we potentially get based on the data we have coming back to us for actual safety projects.

Right, and I know that portion of the code needs to be changed as well because it's not in line with state law.

So we will um we'll be asking for changes on edits on that as well.

Well, I think we'd I think we addressed that when we got it passed.

Did we did you hear from the state as well?

Do they have concern with how it's worded?

Um there's a portion in our code that says it it will be spent on um mobility.

Yeah, and that's that um is not specifically safety related.

We we took that into consideration when we drafted it.

I know the wording in the code is the concern though.

I know I'm saying we took that in consideration because our goals mobility, but with the safety lens for sure.

But I think I remember at the time we had not heard any concerns from the state about it.

I'd be hesitant to change it unless we actually get something from them saying it's a violation.

Um other question, so yeah, the waterfall.

Um so who would be able to get that estimate, assuming we have to go with this existing contract of what the waterfall would be as far as coming back to money that's able to roll into after how much after administration is taken paid for, how much will come back to safety projects?

So we have four three officers in traffic safety that administer the program, so it would have to be much over their salary and benefits to then go.

And right now we're not bringing in that much.

We don't have the studies back yet to say you know what the proposed revenue might be from these different locations, and then we also um don't know what the new fines a lot of times when they do the speed studies, they don't break it down into the same miles per hour violations as is provisioned in the fine schedule.

So it's hard to extrapolate so quickly um you know what the revenue would be.

Uh all right.

Well, I mean, wouldn't that be part of the contract?

Be important to know from contract negotiations, make sure the you know, the estimated amount of money raised would pay for all their costs, measured costs per the contract.

Sure, I'm sure we'll have some sort of estimate, but it probably won't be broken down by the fine schedule.

Once we have the studies of the violations, we'll have at least the base of the 40 fine as an estimate to look at.

You say we would get that report we did actually we didn't say when we were getting that report.

We're waiting we're awaiting it.

Do you know when they may get that back?

You may get the back.

We're talking are we talking about the second speed study?

Yeah.

Um it should be really any day now.

Okay.

Um less contact I have with them.

They said they were working on it.

Um in this was uh early December.

Okay.

I mean, another reason I'm asking about this data is it'd be important to know we're entering into the budget, and um if we need we need to know, I think if we have to increase those fees to pay for the program or to pay for, you know, basically to pay for the program and associated um programs.

So uh, you know, we kind of we do this assessment for our other utility fees, and this isn't necessarily utility fee, it's not a utility fee, but same concept would be helpful.

Uh so that may be included in the speed study, or is that gonna just focus on the safety and the speed study will definitely have the number of violations that it issues, and we can do an estimate based on the lowest fine schedule at least.

Okay.

And as far as the process colleague brought up permitting process, I think we should check with the city manager because there may be other things that plan if if they have if it has to be hooked up to electric, presumably a planet zoning might want to have some involvement with the electrical inspector, but maybe we can.

Yeah, I think we'd have to figure out exactly what might be needed in order to identify where we could streamline the process.

But all right, that's all I have.

Thank you, madam chair.

All the minutes shouldn't want to thank you, madam chair.

Uh you said that the cameras only activate at 12 miles an hour.

Uh that is is that state law that requires that?

They don't, it's not that they are activated, that's when you get a citation, and it is state law, yes.

Okay, so nothing we can do to start them off at 10 or 5 or no.

Okay.

Um do they still collect information if someone is speeding at five or 10 miles over, though?

Like if we let's say we have a street that does I don't think they they um capture the speed data when it's below um the state has a requirement that there are cameras there that and we have used them in um say the um some accidents that we've had where there's a speed camera in the area um and they will capture some footage um and we have to get a subpoena to get that information if it's not a citation, you know, so they do capture some information sometimes that is helpful for investigations, but we have to subpoena that per state law, so that's what we do in those cases.

Is there any way to get them to do that or have any type?

So even if it doesn't lead to citations, because here's my think where my thinking is going.

Let's say we have a road where we don't have a lot of 12 miles an hour over speeding, but we still have 10.

Uh it's a 25 mile an hour road, but people are going 35 on it.

That's still a dangerous lethal speed if a pedestrian is struck in the majority of cases, but they're under that fine amount.

I think we still need to do some type of speed enforcement until we restructure the road to make it more encouraging of the 25 mile an hour limit.

Do these cameras offer any tools to get that info, or do we have any tools in our toolbox to capture that?

We have other things like officers writing tickets and making stops, and we also have a speed sign that we put up in different neighborhoods to hopefully bring people's awareness to their speed.

And then um, but but and then there's speed studies that they do all the time in the city, you know, to like actually get data about how fast people are going.

So those are our tools that we can use at this point.

Okay, thank you.

Anything else people was well, thank you for coming out this evening.

Thank you, madam chairperson.

Thank you.

And having just chaired my first meeting myself just last month.

I'm I'm reading for you.

So you'll be continuing the discussion of this at the next meeting.

More can we have more discussion of it at the next meeting by the cameras?

We can certainly if you want to invite us again.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Have a nice day.

Okay, next on the agenda.

Um, transportation department update.

Mr.

Marcus, welcome.

Oh, well, good afternoon, madam chair, members of the uh transportation committee.

Um for the record, I'm Marcus Moore, Director of Transportation.

I'd like to give you um provide you with an update what's been going on at my agency over the last uh few weeks or month or so.

Um one big thing we're pretty excited about is our electric vehicle charging infrastructure has started um the work to um put that in the ground and all.

Um the installation started probably uh just after Christmas and expected to be finished with the uh cities portion of it in March, and then BGE will come in and do a lot of the bigger work with the substations and all that.

We're hoping to have everything done by the middle of June.

Donovan Harold, um, our civil engineer in Central Services is uh actually the project lead and been getting updates and meetings with him every other week.

So we're really pleased to see how that work is being going is going on.

Um we're working with the procurement officer to secure another vendor for an electric bike and scooter contract.

Bird bike and scooter ended uh the relationship with us back in uh September.

Uh so we've talked about it in our last meeting, and hopefully get that RFP on the street um sometime the um in the next 30 days.

We'd really like to get it in place um by let's say uh May or the springtime when we have bike to work, and you know that was a really good effort that we had, especially with the scooters.

Bikes didn't get used as much as the scooters, but the scooters were really uh cool way to get around.

Uh one other thing we're working on with um you probably heard some information about City Doc, the next phase that's going on on um Monday the 19th.

Uh we're gonna lose a little bit more parking in this next phase until the conclusion, um, probably in the you know late 2027.

This Hillman Garage is only like two tenths of a mile away.

However, you know, I know that some of the businesses are wondering how do we you know connect those dots and all that kind of stuff.

We do have the electric cart, it's only a five-seater, it is a fair weather vehicle that's owned by the city, and we've created a route that we can um you know, maybe do after uh change, you know, daylight savings time, which is around about uh March 9th, all the way through the end of October, depending on weather, early November.

But the route would go from here, 145 Gorman.

You know, if I could take you through it real quick, um up Gorman Street, make a left onto conduit, make a left onto uh Duke of Gloucester, go down Duke of Gloucester to Green Street, make that left, go down green, back onto Maine, Randall Street, and make a right onto City Dock.

Uh continue up City Dock and make that left onto Craig, left onto um Prince George, left back onto Randall, come around.

About eight or ten minutes.

Um there's a big challenge to you know to doing that with Green Street during the week because of school.

You know, just like St.

Mary Street becomes a parking lot here on Duke of Gloucester.

Green Street is kind of the same thing around that time.

It's just you know, you you're gonna get stuck there, but weekends it's not.

We can you know, try it out as a pilot to see if it works.

Um we're still working on some other things for additional type of parking programs that we can have at um Hillman.

Uh Alderman Savage.

Sorry, could you just back up a little bit?

You said that this was uh a pilot program, so like a shovel to serve Dock Street.

Well, right right now it's it's thoughts that we're looking at doing nothing is there now, but we're gonna lose more parking.

Um it's gonna probably have 55 to 65 spaces now.

I I mean my first thought is you said up front, it's two tenths of a mile.

Why the hell would we run expend all those resources to run a shuttle?

Well, it hasn't unless it's kind of like handicapped or like seniors, but like it seems nice to read.

It's not all day, it's not every day.

You know, it's what we were using as a pilot in ESPO.

So looking at six hours a day, two days a week.

That's a lot more than eight tenths of a mile in Eastport.

This is Yeah, and it wasn't just absurd.

I'm sorry.

That's it.

It may not be needed.

These are thoughts that we're you know, we're thinking out loud, and maybe we should have uh you know I would rather have a go towards another you know, bus program.

You know, we I tried to get some money set aside for looking at expand uh doing uh expanding the circulator in Eastport or something.

This just I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, we can I know it's we can talk about it a little more later.

One of the things when we look at those kind of changes that you're making, um, you know, the magenta shuttle, you know, you can have a really good route with a really good time frame, expanding that you might end up diluting paid revenue, paid service, or making it no longer feasible on the route that it's working now.

That one carries quite quite a bit.

We we aligned that one three years ago, and it that was like uh uh you know a really good hit.

So what we're looking at, um some of the uh ideas of the amendments you were bringing up with um Eastport and the Force Drive Edgewater, Edgewood, um, would probably be better off better served standalone.

Not increasing this one to go further, but something similar to that to serve other areas that um have the need.

So that's another conversation.

I I totally understand.

Yeah, I totally understand where you're going with that.

That's something that we're just um you know, talking about to see what we can do.

Um showing the businesses and others, because you're right, you know, could be handicapped.

Um that would be a big help, but how many um what is the help?

You know, what is the percentage?

You know, that's what pilots kind of do.

And like our go time, you know, it's been a year and a half or some of the others that we we pilot it to see before we become uh um a a part of our transit operation.

So I see where you're you're going with it, and it makes sense.

Yeah, I mean it it just perpetuates that kind of uh autocentric.

You know, we could probably use the same amount of money and put a dedicated bike lane.

Dock Street, but yeah, truly understood.

But one of the things that you you're most um wanting to hear about Alderman uh Savage is like the AVL, and uh for the new folks on the committee, AVL automatic vehicle locator.

So we talk about vehicle, but in our uh aspect would be for where's my bus.

We currently have an AVL on the Magenta shuttle.

Um TransLock is what's used.

You see a little dot that's moving across a um a pattern, and you can kind of look at where it is and gauge yourself where um what time it'll be there where you where you're going.

So one of the things that we're looking at um with doing that um is how do we get that without having an RFP process?

Uh we may have to go to the RFP process, but one of the things we were looking at with the county, and as you know, with um a lot of these grants within the state, sometimes there's a little leftover that we can piggyback on another contract.

So once we reached out to Ana Ronda County Department of Transportation, we were directed to take a look at the others that are using that same contract.

And the steps that we're in right now on December 10th, you know, a formal request was sent per peruna county to Howard County because that was where it went next for their utilization of this contract for the ITS information technology routing, dispatching hardware and all.

Um they directed us to St.

Mary's County, which you know, they got it a reassignment there.

So they're looking at their numbers to see if we could actually get on that uh PASIO contract, which would be the best bet because we're part of the county.

All else fails, you know, we would just go out for bid and do our own with whoever the best case scenario would be.

So our December 18th, we reached out to St.

Mary's County to see where we are, and we're expected to get a uh determination from them, probably not until the middle or latter part of February.

We do have money in the budget for this.

Um we have 19 revenue vehicles.

The big, you know, so we've had money that you know, our local share, the state share, and the federal grant um comes down to play with this whole whole mix.

And the biggest part of it with a the PASIO contract is the reoccurring operational cost per vehicle, which could exceed um 18,000, which will be a part of our operating budget for the next fiscal year.

So most likely at the next meeting, next transitation committee meeting, we'll have more firm update.

This is something we plan to do.

Um it's definitely something that will be very helpful, very beneficial in a lot of a lot of ways.

One of the things that we want to add on to this this technology um would be an application to assist uh passengers, um, like it's automated automated announcements.

So with an automated announcement, that's you know that will help eliminate possible uh the possibility of a passenger missing their stop or knowing what stop is best for their desired you know destination.

So weighing our options with this, we will we we hope to you know have something towards the end of this fiscal year, but clearly by you know the Jan July one of FY uh 27 or but of this this calendar year.

Getting it right the first time is really the biggest thing.

Um we we have a good system with Translock.

There's quite a few companies that are very much interested in partnering with us, uh just trying to make the best use of the of the grant money that we got for this particular project.

I'm ready to entertain any other questions you might have um other persons and chair Savage.

Do you have a um Alderman Shaf?

Savage.

Um that's a great news director, as far as the AVL.

Um, and just backing up, you know, I so just for colleagues in public sake, you know, the benefit of this AVL is that people can then see on the transit app, right?

Yes, uh the transit app that will allow them to see where that bus is, the red around the green and all one of the biggest things with the app that the county's using, you get that um you know the seamless journey of you know we the city are part of the county.

It would be great if it all comes together and we're able to use that one app that they're using.

But you're absolutely right in your definition of it, you'll be able to see where the bus is.

And so that's the the transit app.

It's called transit, right?

Uh it's called PASIO.

Pasio Pasio.

Um that's what the county is actually using.

But I thought they're uh transit app is is like a broader um, I'm kind of hard to explain in uh technology terms, but you have a lot of different pieces of this, like translock is who's who we use, we partner with with a magenta shuttle.

Okay.

Not sure if that can be also viewed on the transit app.

But when you look at the county, um there there could be a place uh and I have to do some research on that to get back with you to see if that once we get the the hardware to operate AVL, can it reside on the transit app, which is really big for those that don't know that the um the transit app is all over the country, maybe 450 plus uh locations around, you know, with New York to LA, uh whether it's subway or bus or um things of that nature.

And it would be good to be able to reside on something like that, as Alderman Savage is saying, you open it up on your um your your phone, put on your location finder, and you you're at the mall and you uh put in um 160 Duke of Gloucester, and it'll be able to tell you um the green route when the next time will be coming to you and predicting it in real time, and that's one of the biggest things.

And there's so many other add-ons, and what we want to do with this to get it right or the best we can, you know, automated announcements, and now you're looking at the other population that may be um um some kind of impairment, or you maybe you know, daydream, you know, and say, you know, you now you're hearing that you're you know going down West Street and you're approaching the Michael Bush Library, transfer here for whatever, or 80 West.

It's like now you can transfer the Baltimore 70 bus and the other routes that come through there.

So it's really helping out that population that would need the um you know the audio to go along with it, not just the visual that you will have on your phone.

So I'd like to continue this conversation as you've asked for like the uh police there too to keep you updated and where we are with this very important project that will just help the city.

Yeah, thank you.

That's um it's it does look like you're in the transit app, you can I can see the county, some of the state shuttles, they have a little icon if you can see the live position.

But I don't see the and I see our buses, but it's not live, but I don't see the circulator on there.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

I'm glad you brought it up because without having AVL automatic vehicle locator, you're gonna see our routes, but when we say it, it's a predictor.

So you have an electronic schedule of the time it should arrive at a station or destination without knowing any other mishaps of a light failure and waiting, letting you know the police are letting cars go by intermittently, or there's an accident or reroute.

So, yeah, you're right.

You're gonna see our buses, but they're all um an electronic schedule format.

No, you see on there.

Oh, there it is.

Um would the so with the Howard County, is that is that an instance where you're saying it would be the city and Anarundal piggybacking on the Howard County contract?

Well, um, let me get some more information exactly how the state contract went and other agencies like what we're trying to do, is if there's there's room left on it, we would like to already piggyback on it because they've already been vetted by the state, and we can kind of do that without having to go out to a full RFP.

Uh a lot of jurisdictions within the state of Maryland or other states will do the same thing with bus purchases.

Instead of going out on your own, MTA will actually say, okay, we already have this contract with um, you know, you know, Gillock, and you know, there's certain amount of room for you to buy X amount left from what Howard County, Montgomery County, whatever is already used.

So it behooves us, because you don't have to go through the whole RFP process that that is already been vetted, and if there's enough room for the amount of buses that you need to do with the AVL or the number of buses that you want to purchase on this particular contract.

Our two electric buses was a part of that, a Washington state contract on the federal level that we we were able to um piggyback on a Washington state contract.

So when you do those things, it's already been vetted by the federal or the state um agencies to allow us to.

I wouldn't use the word bypass in RFP, but to all to use what's remaining of that RFP.

Okay, thank you.

But yeah, I I definitely like to uh continue this because we'll have a you know more information.

I know our next meeting is uh February 11th.

We might not have much then, but we can keep pushing the envelope to continue the conversation, and it'll be really exciting to see um when this comes to fruition.

It's something that we really want and need.

Okay, we have another um concern from Aldam and Shademak.

I can say it is such a great convenience knowing when and where your bus actually is versus the stated schedule due to the various things that can happen.

Um that said, one of the main things you said you want it to work right, you need to ensure that your drivers have their transponder actually on.

You you are absolutely right, and that goes back down to our our dispatchers and supervisors.

You gotta sign the bus, or else you're gonna see it parked somewhere like never moved.

So you're you're right.

So give you an example with um uh magenta shuttle right now.

We have four buses that have been outfitted with the the device.

We have two, and our contractor rest and sh rest in limo has two.

And you know, when they put another one in service, you keep seeing this bus sitting at South Street lot.

Why is it moved?

They didn't change it over.

That's gonna be a really big deal to make sure every single morning every bus is turned on that is in service, so it doesn't look like it's sitting at our depot.

You're right.

I have missed the last bust out of DC due to the not having the thing on.

That's not fun.

No, it wasn't.

Okay.

So that concludes your uh information for us today.

It does, unless you have other questions.

Okay, then well, we will continue at the next meeting of next month.

Okay, I have some question unrelated to our bus system.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you, madam.

Um, thank you for the breakdown of the bus system.

Uh, I am now gonna talk about everybody's favorite subject uh parking.

So we recently reduced the fines and fees for violation in Hilming uh Mills Hillman Garage.

Um this is good, but I know that we were asking for drive-in, drive out.

And I know that you were fighting for that.

This is not me venting frustration at you.

You are definitely an ally in this.

Why are they fighting on us on this still?

It's it's not a fight, it's it's the programming part, and I do owe you an update.

Um, as we met with the uh the AMRP Medco folks um late November, uh, we probably have a meeting set for the end of this month, early next month, clearly before the next meeting.

Um, a lot of that, yeah, two different systems, and just the programming to to make it right.

Um, but I'll be able to give you have an update for you, and I can do the research behind the scenes, but we can definitely have um a representative from um premium parking uh at our next meeting.

In fact, that's what I thought we wanted to do, have both of the contractors and I really appreciate you guys giving us um agenda topics so we can be ready to speak on whatever it is you want.

We can do a little bit of research.

So I know this will be one that we want to see where we are because we've asked for it for a while.

Uh Alderman Chandelmar, you're absolutely right.

And you know, hopefully it won't be as long as it has been, and it should be you know right around the bend, but I can't tell you exactly that time frame, but sooner than later.

So I would like to give an update on the 11th of February.

Because how it currently operates is prepaid, yeah.

It's not acceptable, and I voiced along with Alderman Savage how we felt about it during our last economic matters hearing last year, how we felt like they were being frankly predatory to us and taking advantage of a loophole with the prepaid going, well, we'll treat this like a meter.

And if they don't do the drive-in drive out, I do want to get the divorce papers ready.

Understood.

That's all I have to say on that.

Well, okay.

Well, again, thank you for coming out this afternoon, Mr.

Marcus.

Thank you for having me.

See you at our next meeting.

Next, we have the transportation board update.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi, uh, I'm Tara Ashmore.

I'm the current chair of the Annapolis Transportation Board.

Um I did share with you all where we have a presentation on covered where we got the Could you please turn your microphone on?

I apologize.

I've been informed by Mr.

Chairman.

Oh, it was not on.

Forgive me.

Uh Tara Ashmore, uh, chair of the Annapolis Transportation Board.

Um, hopefully you all received the email at the beginning of the month, which showed the representation from the different wards that we have on the board, as well as from St.

John and the U.S.

Naval Academy.

And if you have uh any volunteers that would like to join the committee, we'd welcome them.

Please just let us know.

Um the AETB is really focused on buses, bikes, uh, and parking.

And um we are voting on Monday on just a recommendation to the Annapolis Transportation Committee.

Um, and that will be things on the Hillman, the Mills Hillman Garage specific to reserve parking spaces.

Um someone on the committee is observing that there seem to be quite a few vacant spaces.

I noticed there were 200 on my way up, um, and that a hundred or so of those are reserved for monthly or dedicated parking spaces.

And the question is whether that's actually good utilization or if there is opportunity there to make better use of the parking at Hillman Garage from non-monthly users.

Uh so you'll see that, and then there's also going to be uh a comment or recommendation on um electric vehicle charging stations in the garage around signage uh and ease of use.

So um we'll have that for you shortly.

Um I did know that you were gonna be talking about the um the speed cameras, and this came up last year as well.

And I could not find the Annapolis agreement, but I found a Bladensburg agreement with that same red speed company, and it looks if we're similar, they get 33% of revenues.

You have 60 days to terminate without cause.

If you go to put in a speed camera and you don't get a speed camera installed, you decide you know, Annapolis decides to pull it, then you owe them 30,000 or so for them not being able to put in the services.

So they get a $30,000 recap fee.

You have annual reviews and you have monthly reports.

So I would offer that if you guys can actually hand me the 2013 agreement and all the amendments since then.

If we could get the monthly reports and the annual reports from Red Speed, we'd be happy to look into it and do an analysis for you.

If we have this four cameras requires three police officers, right?

You'd have to have about $550,000 in annual revenue from those four cameras in order for you to have accretive funds going back to your safety programs.

For three officers?

Yep.

Going off what I, you know, it do an average, you know, Annapolis police officer median salary plus 50% for benefits, right?

So call that 120.

That's $360,000 just for the Annapolis budget going against the incoming revenues.

So Red Speed would have to be collecting $540,000 in order for all of this to break even.

They'd have to collect more than that for you to see money going into your safety programs, roughly, if we have a contract similar to the Bladensburg contract.

Calculating here sitting here while I was listening.

So I mean, this is all discoverable.

You can figure this out.

And I and I might suggest four additional cameras.

The question is, do four additional parameters require three more police.

Right.

I mean, they're writing 90 tickets a week if they're at that max revenue at the original 40 ticket and granted the Maryland law change, and so you might get more than 40 dollars a ticket.

But you'd have to have 13,500 tickets at 40 bucks to break even, which is an officer writing 90 tickets a week.

That doesn't seem burdensome to me.

Doesn't seem more burdensome.

But that's where you need to get the scale.

If you put in four more cameras, do you need three more police, or are you gonna get the same amount of work from those three people?

Or is it an automation tool that helps those officers do it more efficiently?

I'm surprised we had three.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe they're also doing physical surveillance and ticketing, but if they're just sitting at a desk doing ticketing, that seems not very efficient.

But you see what I'm saying?

If you put in four more cameras and you have to have three more police officers, you're not gonna get the economy of scale, where then you have more money going into your safety programs.

Does that help at all?

Very uh questions.

And again, happy to uh look at the contract and do that sort of a study from that point of view.

If it helps.

Yes.

I appreciate your breakdown on that numbers for us.

It's estimates based on an Bladingsburg contract, not ours.

That's still very helpful to have that snapshot.

Um something that I've been trying to work on with Alderman Huntley, uh and we're hoping to get some enabling legislation through the state this year, is um stop sign and crosswalk cameras.

Uh I believe Prince George's County allows them and some of their municipalities.

I don't know if you're familiar with those, but basically you push the little uh if someone were to roll past a stop sign, treating it as optional, it would ding them.

Or in the case of my crosswalks on hilltop lane where we push the little flashy buttons and drivers ignore those putting pedestrians at risk, it flashes and dings them.

So we're hoping to try and get enabling legislation to start putting those out as well because pedestrian safety is becoming an increasing issue for us in Annapolis.

But if you're aware of anyone, uh I think Prince George's is has those uh in some of their jurisdictions, and if you would know of any of that you could contracts that you can look at there, that'd be one of the yeah, uh we can Google that.

I haven't seen that.

I I just don't know.

I also um sorry, as part of the study that Red Speed is doing for the location of the new cameras.

There should be heat maps.

I mean, Maryland Department of Transportation keeps uh a data source of all accidents.

So there really ought to be a heat map layered over the locations of the cameras that tell you whether those are the most critical areas.

Granted, you're also school zoning or resident zoning, but you should be able to pull a heat map from the Department of Maryland Department of Transportation that would help guide you as to what would be the best prospects, highest prospects for locating those scale.

Showing accidents, yep.

Yeah.

We want to accept my screen.

Yeah, thank you very much.

Um this is very helpful.

Um my plan is to request some of this additional information, the reports.

I need to I think we need to speak with the city manager too to figure out because we need really need we should have had somebody doing this analysis in-house already, frankly.

Um bit flummoxed, but uh you're doing you're doing quite a bit of research, and hopefully you'll continue to be willing to help us in that regard.

Um personally trying to get my head around this program.

We need to get our head around this program for the upcoming budget as well, as I mentioned.

Um and I I'm afraid you're you're not gonna find much there to redirect towards other safety programs.

Yeah, maybe well, maybe not.

I mean, it all depends on it all depends on where we set the actual fine.

Um and I think your hope would be to have it set high enough where we could bring in some money via some kind of waterfall.

But to your point, to do that, we need to really understand the total program costs, uh, how many officers would be needed per camera.

We would need to know how much um the contractor's gonna be spending how what their administrative costs are.

There's a lot we need to.

Yeah, if they're getting a percent, then what you really need to do is see the historical revenue.

Sorry?

If if if they're getting a percent of all revenues, if they get the first 33% of all revenues, all you really need to know are would have been the historical revenues for four cameras, right?

And you can make a good estimate there.

And then also the um I thought that the fines are actually based on state law.

No, not the my recollection is the state law.

I don't think they I don't think they specified what the fines a maximum when we adopt.

425 425 dollars for somebody being 40 miles per hour over the speed limit.

Was that in the state kind of have to look at it again?

Yeah, MD, it's it's easily it's easily found.

12 to 15 miles per hour with the speed limit is 40, so that's the baseline that officer was talking about.

And then if you're 16 to 19, you go up to 70, almost double, 20 to 29 over is 120, and it wraps it up.

Yeah, see, I mean I know they had specific restrictions for school zones, but outside of that, and does it set a floor or is it set as 40 and 40?

Same full R 40.

Yeah.

This was October legislation that passed in Maryland.

But I happy to happy to put some numbers together if we can get the contracts and get all the back reports.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um and I don't who would receive those.

I mean, the contract is so old, I wouldn't be surprised if the city doesn't even get the annual reports.

Uh but presumably the police department.

But I you know, I haven't seen the contracts.

I don't know who the contract is with.

Okay.

Maybe it just goes to city manager.

Although in 2013, we I don't think we had a city manager.

We may have still had a city administrator.

I don't know.

We'll have to do more research.

Okay.

But I in a nutshell, if it's gonna require three additional police, I don't think you're gonna have scale, and I don't think you're gonna find it to be a creative, but it is an important safety program.

Yeah.

Can I can I just um intervene and just ask um the equipment of those boxes that's up on the polls, they put a speedy the people who speed, right?

Um we have one in front of our church, 87 West Street.

And several people almost hit their hats on it.

Can it be moved up some?

I don't know.

Not mine, not my area.

Who would handle something like that I think you need to talk to the police officer that is has you know yes, it's a great it's a big box, a huge box, and I mean why seeing one person struck the head, you know.

But yeah, you got to really watch coming across the street with that box right there waiting.

So I'll I'll find someone who's in charge of that and see if they can adjust it some kind of way.

You can ask the city manager.

I'm not sure if that'd be a if that's a speed camera or uh regular.

Yeah, I don't know which one it is.

Yeah, street uh crime.

Because I know they have that little walkway right there.

I think so.

It's something to do with that little walk and cross the walk.

Yeah, what street is it on?

Right, West Street from our church.

Asbury, right, Dave.

Several people almost struck the head.

Okay.

Well, anyhow, do you have anything else at this time?

I don't think so.

Uh I thought that was good food for thought.

Um anything you need us to do, please let us know.

And will you be joining our monthly meetings?

Okay.

Anything else?

Shall my like Ward 5's newest contribution to the board?

Pardon me?

How do you like Ward 5's contribution to the board, Phineas?

I I can't hear it.

What?

How do you like Ward 5's newest contribution to the transportation board, Phineas?

Oh, thank you.

Sorry.

I just wasn't hearing you correctly.

Uh he is extremely uh enthusiastic, and he's already been put on a subcommittee on buses.

Um, so you'll probably be seeing something from the committee on that pretty soon.

But he um Marcus and I were talking about it.

Um I think he's I think he's on a mission to go on every bus route multiple times.

So uh he's he's been a good ad.

Thank you.

He is fired up.

Uh Did you see he's already got uh uh um um is it a Facebook page with his membership?

I mean, like that was instant.

I thought that was I thought that was a real sign of enthusiasm, yeah.

He is fired up about fired up.

Yep, yep.

You know, we've had we've had people before and and they they are fired up, and then we sort of lose them because it gets uh monotonous.

I don't know.

We go over the same things a lot, and so I I do hope he sticks because there were some other ones that we did lose pretty quickly that that were younger, brought a different viewpoint, and it was nice to have their viewpoint.

So I hope he does stay.

Yeah.

Uh so there should be one other.

We haven't really done any appointments, I don't think this Phineas was the couple of new ones.

I know I have one, Brendan Boyle, not actually from my ward, right on the boundary though, but uh he's been a an advocate for transportation cycling, so hopefully you'll be seeing his name once we get.

I don't think we have a board's uh commission's coordinator right now.

Um so once we get somebody, hopefully you'll start to see some names.

But how many vacancies did you say yet?

It's quite a few.

I don't I don't know that I mind the vacancies.

Um it just would be nice to get a broader range of people, so that's why Phineas was such a great ad.

Um we only have right now ward one, two, five, eight, St.

John, U.S.

Academy, and three at large.

I think there were four openings.

Okay.

Um, and I wouldn't really worry about ward representation because at this point with that many openings, you know, somebody on the border, I'm sure would be just fine.

Yeah.

All right.

All of Michad is thank you.

Anything else?

All right, thanks so much.

Thank you for coming out.

Is there anything else what a good of the of the uh meeting for today?

If not, we're gonna adjourn.

Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion to adjourn.

Second.

The meeting has adjourned.

We have to take a vote, Madam Chair.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Let's take this vote.

All in favor?

Aye.

All anyone opposed?

Well the meeting adjourned at 5.15.