With me for the Pledge of Allegiance and our invocation, uh, which will be by Councilmember Rogers tonight.

Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Lord, Micah 68 tells us to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with you.

We come before you today with grateful and ready hearts, seeking your guidance over this meeting in a time when voices are many and opinions are strong, help us to remain steady in our convictions and respectful in our dialogue.

Help us to speak truth boldly and to root it and wrap it in grace.

Grant us the wisdom to pursue peace, not as the absence of conflict, but as the presence of justice, understanding, and communication.

Let every discussion and decision made here tonight be led by your spirit for the good of all and for the glory of your name.

In Christ's name we pray.

Amen.

Denise, would you please call the role?

Councilmember Shaw.

Excused.

Or I'm sorry, she's available online.

I apologize.

Gullick.

Here.

Nice.

President.

Owen.

Here.

Rogers.

Here.

Kennedy.

Excuse.

Aspen Lightner.

Here.

Tidswell.

Online.

He was on the city.

Councilmember Titswell, can you give us a verbal confirmation you can hear us?

Councilmember Shaw just let me know that she cannot hear us.

Okay.

Boyette.

And Rap says.

Council, uh Mayor Cole.

Uh, here.

And just for the record, Councilmember Tidswell is a visible online, and we're trying to make sure we've got a audio connection to him.

Uh, Councilmember Tidswell, if you can hear us, give us a thumbs up and and uh chime in.

Yes.

Ah.

Very good.

I heard Councilmember Titzwell uh uh say yes.

So here I just I just picked you up, Mayor.

Thank you.

Yes, I can I can hear you now.

Perfect.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh uh first order of business is our minutes.

The minutes from September 8th are pending, but we have the minutes from August 25th.

Is there uh discussion or a motion?

Councilmember Boyette.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move that we approve the minutes from August 25th, 2025, as Red.

Very good.

Second by Councilmember Rogers, any discussion.

Seeing none, uh in favor of the motion for approval of the minutes of uh August uh uh 25, please um please say aye.

Uh aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

Um council courtesies this evening.

Council, do we have any council courtesies?

Councilmember uh Gullick.

Yeah, uh Saturday was a beautiful day for the great downtown uh bike roll.

Um somewhere between 75 and 100 uh residents of uh Billings of all ages uh gave up their Saturday morning to try out the downtown bikeways.

Um this is uh their first opportunity to come downtown, ride downtown for many of them because they don't feel safe riding in traffic lanes.

So uh special thanks to public works for uh giving us some special dispensation to make use of them uh while they're still finishing uh up uh some of the uh painting as well as the signaling.

Um but uh residents want to ride downtown and uh they just need to have a place to do so.

Very good.

Thank you, Customer Gillick, thanks for helping to organize that.

Just to um underline um they are not open yet to the public, and uh we don't know exactly when they will be open, um, or at least I don't, maybe you do.

Okay, but in the near future within the next week or two.

Okay.

Very good.

Any other council courtesies this evening?

Don't see any.

We do have uh uh proclamation and recognition of domestic violence awareness month, and the proclamation reads as follows.

Whereas domestic violence is a serious issue that affects individuals and families in every community, regardless of age, gender, race, religion, economic status, or educational level.

And whereas in the United States, more than 10 million adults experience domestic violence annually, and one in four women and one in nine men have experienced severe intimate partner violence in their lifetime, and whereas the effects of domestic violence extend far beyond the home, impacting children, families, schools, neighborhoods, and workplaces, and placing a significant burden on health care, law enforcement, and social uh service systems.

And whereas the city of Billings is committed to promoting a culture of safety, respect, and justice, and to standing with survivors of domestic violence while holding abusers accountable.

And whereas local organizations work tirelessly to provide shelter, advocacy, and support for survivors and to educate community, our community about prevention and intervention strategies.

And whereas October has been nationally recognized as domestic violence awareness month since 1987, providing an important opportunity to raise awareness, support survivors, and uh renew our community's commitment to ending domestic violence.

Now, therefore, I William Cole, mayor of the city of Billings to hereby proclaim October 2025 as domestic violence awareness month in billings and urge all citizens to speak out against domestic violence, support survivors, engage in prevention efforts, and promote healthy, respectful relationships in all aspects of life.

With that, we'll move on to council reports.

Council, any uh reports uh from other organizations that you serve on on behalf of the uh city.

Any council reports.

Uh seeing none, um, we'll move on to our city administrator report.

Uh Chris.

Yeah, mayor and council.

I've just got a handful of things.

First, uh brief uh update on uh animal control and the incinerator.

We did get word this afternoon that the assessment plan, uh, which is a document created by Northern Industries Hygiene.

Uh that plan has been presented to YBAS.

We've asked WIBAS uh to share it with us so that we can, it is the key document relative to having uh rent uh um restoration uh entity comply with that.

So we had a fairly lengthy meeting with DEQ on Friday.

They confirmed absolutely uh the approach is exactly right that uh the folks at Northern Industrial Hygiene are certified to develop the plan, and by following that plan uh that we're taking the right steps.

So we'll be uh anxious to get that hopefully uh this evening or in the morning so that we can move forward.

We have had a couple of restoration for restoration firms do walkthroughs so they can be prepared once that plan comes out to quickly get us estimated timeline cost so we can get moving forward uh on getting the facility back up and running and open.

Second item is uh 802 Yellowstone Avenue demolition.

So um uh my understanding is the equipment is on site.

There was some talk they were going to start this afternoon, but I don't know that that happened.

7 a.m.

Uh we're being told now that they will start bringing the building down.

So that should happen fairly quickly and and they're out on site.

Third item is specific tonight's to tonight's agenda, which is regular agenda items 9A, B, and C.

Public hearings regarding annexation 25-04 and zone change 1070.

The applicant has requested a delay.

If it is delayed, the public hearing for first reading the ordinance for the ward boundary expansion would also need to be continued.

The public hearings have been advertised, making it necessary for them to be opened for public comment and then continued to October 13th.

That's the request from the applicant is that we move them to October 13.

Uh, the October 13 regular business meeting.

If council honors the applicant's request for a delay, council will need to make a motion and approve the continuance for the public hearings to October 13th regular business meeting.

Um then last, we do not have any ex parte communication that came in uh late this afternoon.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Chris.

Um, we'll move on to uh public comment on uh non-public hearing items.

But before we do that, Councilmember uh Owen.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, Chris, could we just get a quick update on the status of police negotiations?

Um there was sure.

So there was uh per statute, there was a mediation session that took place.

Uh boy, it's probably been 10 days ago now.

We are certainly uh open that those will continue.

Uh I don't know if the next one is scheduled yet or not between uh the bargaining unit and the city, but certainly on the administrative side, we have made our calendars available to get that process uh done as soon as possible.

But the first that that mediation session did not result in a new proposal to bring forward to this body for approval.

Uh, just a reminder, the last two tentative agreements have been agreed to uh at the table, but then have been voted down uh by the bargaining unit.

Okay, but at this point you feel confident that um on the city's side, schedules are open, you are making it a priority.

There is no delay.

Without a question, we've been very clear that we can open and will and are willing to open schedules to to keep things moving forward.

Okay, thanks.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh so we're back to public comment on uh non-public hearing items.

Uh council, you heard the request from the developer to move item uh nine um to the October 13th meeting.

Um I won't ask for that now, but I'll I'll see if there is a motion after our public comp this initial public comment period on non-public hearing items.

Um I'll allow public comment on items nine A B or C if somebody came tonight.

Otherwise, uh uh they may never have an opportunity to comment and they came uh came to our meeting.

Um so we'll uh I'll ask if there's a motion after our public comment period.

So uh now is the time for public comment on anything where there will not be a public hearing later in the meeting.

So that is item one, which is our consent agenda, and any of those sub-items.

Also item 10, which is the uh uh renewal of the citizen police advisory board.

And as I just said, item nine A, uh, which is the uh subdivision uh wet and annex session annexation uh and zone change of the property uh west of 54th Street.

So if you'd like to comment on items one nine or ten, this is your opportunity.

Council member needs yeah, point of order on that.

Um and I can check with Gina on this, but as I understand we're gonna we're gonna hear the item nine, all the item nine eight and all the sub items tonight still, but keep it open.

And so I guess trying to move the public hearing now.

Don't we need to have a vote to change the agenda to hear have the public hearing uh during the this because our again our ordinance is very specific that we can't uh public hearings for non-agenda items are in the beginning and the other hearings are in the uh body of the that's an ordinance unless we have a vote to change that.

Uh I'll defer to our city administrator.

I was looking as a practical matter that if it is removed from the agenda, there will be no public hearing.

And hence the opportunity should be given to the public to comment uh tonight.

If council does not want to remove it from the agenda at this point, uh we could wait and make people um uh wait until we get to that item as well.

Okay, can you we clarify do we want to remove this from the agenda or we just want to uh hear it and delay it?

Um uh Gina, you can comment uh uh my concept was not to open the public hearing and not to close it.

If we if it is simply removed to November or delayed till October 13th, there's been no opening, there's been no closing.

It's just an opportunity for public comment because as a courtesy, people are here tonight.

You know, but if we need to open the public hearing, uh we can uh wait until we get to that item and deal with it as then.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

It's my understanding the request is to uh open the public hearing and continue it to the 13th.

They do not want it removed from the agenda exactly.

And notice has been given, and so they want to simply open it and delay it, continue it.

Okay.

If that is the request, then we will wait um uh to uh uh deal with that item uh when we get to it.

Okay.

And um our city uh administrator is looking to our planning director for confirmation of that interpretation, and they're gonna huddle and we'll get some more on that.

No.

So, mayor, I think what I take is your original approach is the approach that the applicant is requested that it be postponed until the 13th.

So therefore moved.

Yeah, removed from this evening and uh and placed on the October 13th agenda.

I think it's been your habit that since someone may have came here from the public to be heard, hence your point in public comment that that they could be heard by you, but it would not be in the public hearing.

Okay, so that is the request.

Um, and so we'll deal with that after this item.

Thank you for that clarification.

So, as we said before, this is your opportunity.

If you'd like to comment on items one, uh item nine or item 10.

Please come to the podium.

Uh, just ask that you keep your comments to three minutes and and tell us your name.

And uh also um it's always important to speak right into the microphone and keep your voice up so that people uh uh watching on channel or community seven TV can hear us.

Mr.

Nelson.

There we go.

Now we go.

Item P resolution to 10 to expand the district.

This is not what we use tax increment for.

Even I mean, everyone knows that all you want to do is build a swimming pool.

I think the mayor made that pretty clear on his uh radio interview sort shortly after this started.

Uh as a state taxpayer, I don't want to pay for the swimming pool.

As a county taxpayer, I don't want to pay for the swimming pool.

As a school taxpayer, I don't want to pay for the swimming pool.

And a majority of the city taxpayers said no also to the levy and didn't want to pay for a swimming pool.

So for this body, just merely to say, well, you're we're gonna get a swimming pool and you're gonna like it.

Because we'll just expand the district, and then all the state taxpayers they can contribute.

The county taxpayers, they get to contribute.

The school taxpayers, they get to contribute.

And then the remaining city taxpayers they get to contribute too.

And they get it by diverting the revenues or the those mills from the uh those other taxing jurisdictions.

The TIFF district doesn't end.

You think about this till 2046.

So here's a little bit a lesion school just so happens to have some of their boundary in the city.

So in 2008, someone got a pencil around and thought this would be a good idea.

So you capture the Allegian school district in the in the in the original TIFF district in 08.

So here's uh an elementary district sitting outside of the city, gets their taxes captured for 38 years.

38 years.

That's almost five grades will go through that elementary before they ever get any of their money back.

It puts a bad lens on the mechanism of tax increment finance when you just go out and just we're taking your money and you're gonna like it.

I think you ought to concentrate on maybe rerouting those boundaries and returning some of that money before you go out and start expanding it.

Just a just an example.

You had a lesion in here a couple of weeks ago, and you needed to do something for him.

They were struggling to find $30,000 to pave their parking lot.

But then you go into the city and the hotel and convention center, you give him $500,000, partially of the Allegian School District's money to pave his parking lot.

It looks bad, it is bad, and I would encourage you to look to another venue to pay for your swimming pool.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Uh other public comment, please come forward.

Um, Representative Denise Joy, Mayor and Council.

I'm here commenting on item Q uh on the consent agenda.

Um, I would just say that working on the public arts policy was really very fun.

Um I didn't know a lot of artists and billings.

I didn't know a lot of artists from around the state, but I met them during the process.

And I can say that it was the funnest meeting I ever had as a city council member.

We had fun with creative people and the process of thinking outside the box and trying to uh develop art, public art was really fun.

It wasn't uh people say politics are very divisive.

There weren't any politics in the room.

It was about how to express uh uh feelings and uh attitudes and ideas that the public could grasp onto, that the public would enjoy looking at or experiencing, and that's a lot of fun.

And so I'm really helpful hopeful that you will approve uh letter Q.

I do want to say I am very appreciative to the artists I met who took time to work on this to really vet it and to bring that uh creative perspective to what is uh a city policy that can be a little dry.

I really appreciate Riverstone Health and all the people who worked on it there.

I appreciate the public who came by um time and time again at the Strawberry Festival and tried to win a uh stuffed strawberry in order to uh take a poll and and help us to hone what the public would really like in a public arts policy.

It's it was tremendous amount of fun.

I don't regret even one second of it.

I love the meetings and I loved the process that we were able to use.

So I really do hope you approve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh other comment on items uh one, nine, or ten.

Is there any other public comment on items one, nine, or ten?

Oh, and I apologize.

And the initiatives, I should have mentioned that before.

There's also not going to be a public hearing on those items.

They are on our agenda.

So Councilmember Ripsis has uh uh two initiatives on our agenda.

If anybody likes to comment on those, uh please uh make uh make shelf at home.

Hello, good evening.

God, is this all right?

Okay.

My name is Susie Casper.

I was born and raised in Billings.

My father was in business here for 50 years.

He owned Casper's Photoshop.

Um, I went away uh to school and uh lived away from Billings.

I moved back in January, and when I moved back, uh I moved into the Shiloh Commons apartments, which as you know are for uh uh buildings along Shiloh Road.

Um the good part is I've got a beautiful apartment.

The bad part is is that the noise is absolutely unbearable on Shiloh Road.

Uh there's souped up cars and motorcycles going all manner of the day and night.

We can't keep our windows open.

We cannot sit out on our balcony, and very often even the closed windows don't do any good.

Uh my neighbors Sam and Joan Minner and I, Sam is here today.

Uh met with our consulman, uh Tom Repsis to see what can be done.

Tom was absolutely wonderful, very cooperative.

And I think probably because he feels our pain.

Uh, he lives in the neighborhood.

Uh, as a result of that meeting, we decided to petition the city uh to see if there's something that can be done to mitigate that noise.

This is not just a Shiloh Commons uh problem.

As you know, there are residences all the way down Shiloh Road down to Zoo Drive that above Shiloh.

Uh I would have to guess there's probably hundreds of people who are feeling this.

Um we wrote a petition which outlines the problem and some potential solutions.

We received permission from Mike Stock, who um owns Shiloh Commons and said to say hello to you, mayor.

Um and uh three weeks ago, Sam and I visited every single apartment uh in the complex, except for two.

Everyone who was home and answered the door was thrilled that we were there to try to get something done about this.

They were thrilled to have us come in.

We met babies, we had a drink, this and that.

Um they wanted to uh sign the petition and share their nose story, noise stories.

Uh we had the petition here, and Sam is going to say a couple things, and then he will drop the petition off.

We have copies for all of you.

Uh I just want to point out the reason the numbering seems off is because we had people sign our petition, and then uh we were also allowed to keep one in the leasing office.

So people assigned there.

So uh anyway, thank you so much for your time and for your ear.

We're very, very grateful in hope that maybe you might be able to help us out on this.

Thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

And you can just leave the copies of the petition with the city administrator and he'll distribute them right there.

Good afternoon, everybody.

My name is Sam Miner, and I'm a you know, fairly new resident to Billings, been here about a year, moved up here, or uh son and daughter-in-law live in Laurel and uh they got jobs up here.

He's an attorney, she's a oh, I'm sorry.

Uh, my son's an attorney, she's uh oncologist at Billings Clinic.

I try to get that in.

Son a lawyer, daughter-in-law, a doctor every time I can.

So anyway, and um, and we moved up here after we retired.

My uh wife was a teacher.

I was a university president in New Mexico before I moved up here.

So, first of all, I know that time is limited, but you know, you're talking to a new resident here.

I mean, Billings is great.

We just love it here.

And I I think maybe I'm not supposed to do that because I tell my friends, oh, it's wonderful.

And so uh I don't know how many people, many new people, additional people you want to move here, but Billings is wonderful.

We've just loved it so much.

Your trails, the farmers market, the uh museums, the cultural amenities, the dog parks.

I mean, uh even my experience at the D DMV was just a wonderful experience.

You don't hear that every day, but it really was.

So you all are doing a really, really good job, and those before you have to.

But so we took an apartment on Shiloh Road.

It's a great apartment.

We're very happy there.

The noise, though, the street racing.

Very dangerous.

People doing wheelies up and down from one roundabout to another goes on especially Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night.

Last night, I um uh left my I found an app that measures decibels and I put in there and so last night, just last night and this morning, 9 49, 1012, 1102, 1109, 1145, 1206 a.m., 133 a.m., 218 a.m.

And I just gave up.

Just roaring up and down that road.

It's just out of control.

Several of the residents we spoke with, Susie and I, um, are moving.

I mean, they're moving away from that apartment complex or moving away from billings.

It's just terrible.

I was walking my dog by the sidewalk, some young man doing a wheelie, going, I don't know how fast came within feet from just hitting us.

So something really needs to be done.

What to do?

I don't know exactly.

We we've talked about um uh numerous possibilities, uh, ranging from I guess cameras, sound cameras, and visual cameras for face recognition aren't allowed here.

So I guess that's off the table.

Noise dampening uh solutions have been used in some towns.

We used one on the campus where I used to work, uh speed bumps, but really it's really greater enforcement.

That's what we need.

I mean, some of those folks need to get tickets and they need to pay.

But you know, what is that?

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight times in one night.

I awoke with the noise exceeding the limit.

So anyway, so thank you so much.

If there's anything that you can do, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Uh, thank you very much.

Thank you for your comments, and welcome to Billings.

Jordan.

Hi, I'm Jordan Weber.

I live on Park Lane, and I had zero idea that the uh noise initiative was going to be on the on the agenda tonight.

So it's just a happy coincidence that I'm here.

Uh I live on Park Lane, which if you don't on the north side of Park Lane, which means my backyard butts up right against Rim Rock.

And there's been more than one night where I've been woken up at 3 a.m.

to uh sport bikes, lifted trucks, blaring down Rim Rock.

And that was obnoxious before I was 40 years old with a two-year-old.

So I I'm begging you move forward with this initiative because I'd like to get a good night's sleep again and not have to worry about somebody with a big truck waking up my two-year-old at three in the morning.

Um I I feel the pain of Shiloh.

Um, one thing about the the uh parkland, we're below Rim Rock.

So Rim Rock Road is at about your level for us.

So there's nothing stopping that noise.

Um, so yeah, please, please.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Any other public comment on items one, nine, uh 10 or the initiatives.

Any other public comment before we close public comment period?

Any other public comment?

No one's standing up, no one's moving forward.

So we'll close public comment period um on those items and um move ahead with our consent agenda.

First, council, are there any uh separations?

Conspepper asked me later.

Thanks, Mr.

Mayor.

I would request that we separate agenda item one D.

Uh one D contract for professional services, uh work order 2524, safe streets for all.

Uh any other separations?

Councilmember Ripsis.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'd like to separate one P to expand the boundaries of this burrow.

Very good.

Any other separations?

Uh Councilmember Nish, uh one Q.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, one Q.

One Q resolution estapsing public arts policy.

Uh anything other separations.

Okay, don't see any others.

Uh we'll uh move ahead uh with the non-separated items.

Councilmember Boyette.

Thank you, Mayor.

I move that we approve the agenda or the consent agenda items except for one D, one P, and one Q.

So council member for Rupsis.

Discussion, uh discussion now on the motion.

Is there any discussion on the motion?

Seeing that, we'll proceed to a vote.

Motion is for approval of um uh the non-separated items, uh, which uh accepts those three separated items.

If in favor of the motion, uh please say aye.

Uh aye.

Aye.

Uh if opposed, say nay.

Uh motion passes unanimously.

Uh first separated item up is item one D contract for personal services.

Councilmember Aswater, that was your separation.

Did you want to uh lead off on that in any way?

Yeah, I don't have any questions.

I think my my email um got my point across primarily.

I I don't think we're being effective or efficient in the way that we approach this project.

Um I think it's it's overblown from an engineering perspective.

I think the cost is well over what it needs to be to get done, what we need to get done here.

Um I think we have conflated this into a much bigger project, making it uh, you know, we're spending way more dollars on soft costs than we are than than is what's not necessary or needed for sidewalks and trails.

Um I appreciate the explanation, but the explanation to me was more of a justification of why and not a willingness to sit down and take a look at how we actually do these things and how we do them better and more efficiently and effectively.

Um, I'm gonna vote no.

I don't have any questions.

Um, my questions have been answered or or they're not going to be answered.

So somebody else can make a motion and we can move forward.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh any uh is there a motion or other questions or discussion?

Council Boyet.

Um I would make the motion, but I'd still like to hear from uh our uh public works director.

Just as a comment on this D before we vote.

If she's uh I believe um uh either a public works director or actually our city engineer Mac Fogelson, I think was the one who was designated to respond.

So evening, Mayor and Council.

Yep.

What council member Aspen Eiter said do you have a comment one way or another?

Yeah, uh obviously we sent the response sort of detailing the elements there.

I will tell you that whether it's this project or any other project from uh from the city side of the coin, if you will, we are always looking for opportunities.

Um we detailed out some of the elements that are what I would say maybe conservative, and we don't know if we're gonna use those yet, but we are we don't go into that saying we're going to use those.

We go in with the the base level and then we go up from there.

So I that that's my explanation for that.

Okay, counselor boyet.

So let's say we we we deny this.

What happens next?

Where would you go from there?

Um potentially we would uh one thing would be to reduce reduce scope.

Uh we would have to look at some other mechanisms there.

I don't know that the, I mean, sometimes you would go to firm number two.

Uh I don't know that that's an appropriate element here because uh the the other firm there had at least some of the budgeting numbers were were very, I would say, conservative.

So I don't know that that's a good approach.

I will tell you that probably the solution getting it uh council members Aspenlighter's root question.

Are there things that we can do?

Let's say council accepts this tonight.

Our our MO would be to knowing that, how do we most efficiently execute this work?

Are there ways to, when we get into the design, say we don't need that element of work?

Uh so we're not gonna we're not gonna do that.

Um, but we don't know some of those elements until we get into them.

But I guess we would have to tell the council here as the as the team working on the project that we would be stewards of the money and uh work diligently.

And if there's something that's not needed, uh I'll give you an example with our downtown two-way uh project.

We've you know, we had a budget there.

We have not used all that budget.

We've uh done design uh within our scope of work, and there's been things there that we haven't needed to do.

Um we were we were flexible on the fly, like when we took the the backing angle parking, council said uh work with the funds that we have.

We've done that.

We have not come back for extra funding.

So I can't tell you the exact creativity that we have to use there, but we will do something uh to keep that in line with the budget.

Okay, very good.

Uh uh councillor Owen, Council Nees.

Thank you, Mayor.

So Mac, if I'm understanding kind of what you talked through, to me, the idea of reducing scope doesn't solve the problem, right?

Because just saying, well, do four projects instead of six doesn't actually address the the overhead costs.

Why can't why aren't there some things that we the collective we, the city can take on?

Why, for example, can we not do the public outreach?

We have a website.

Why can't we put these projects on there?

Why can't we take some things off the table and bring down those overhead costs?

And and I think that's you know, what you know, day one, let's say we approve this tonight.

That would be a perfect example that maybe the website we can do internal.

Uh we expect during construction to do a lot of the construction inspection internally, um, those kinds of things for sure.

So if I could just push a little bit more, I I'm not sure I feel comfortable approving on a maybe.

Is there a way to, you know, between now and I don't know, our next business meeting, drive to a more clearly narrowed soft cost side um and direct more dollars into the actual construction?

I think we could.

I I think I I think um in terms of dollars, you know, the websites, there's probably 15,000 or 20,000 there.

We're talking those kinds of elements.

And I guess I'd like to tell the council I think we can do those without coming back.

Does this as a matter of fact, you know, kind of as a promise, if you will, to work, you know, to get those things reduced.

Uh very good.

Uh um I had recognized Casper Nissan Councilmember Shaw.

Thank you, Mary.

Mac, I think in your letter, you I it was mentioned that you were able to bring some of those uh costs down, I think from the consultant's perspective from some number down to 13%, but still higher than 12% standard.

So if that were to be brought down another percent, how much would this contract be reduced?

Uh another percent is probably that's that's what 30,000 or so.

Yeah, I mean, we're not we're not we're not far off there.

We're not far off on there.

Yes.

Okay.

So is there a reason why if this is a standard?

I guess the question is is if we're gonna do something above standard, there usually is a good rationale why we're doing that.

And I didn't quite get that from the memo.

Yeah, I I think at the bottom of that summary, we we talked about some of the the federal uh elements that we need to uh incorporate, like the environmental analysis, the the uh federal reporting, we have to do that.

There's a tail period two years after the project.

Um those are the those are some of the whys that we don't normally do on like a standard city project.

And so if those weren't in in a standard city project, what would the percentage be then?

It would would it be at the 12%?

We would be more in the in the 12% range, yeah, yes.

Or below or do you know potentially below on this project?

Okay, but we don't really know where we are.

It's what what percent how much percent this is the federal portion of this is increasing it.

Um there was a there's a there was a summary at the bottom of that email.

I think it had it was maybe third the federal component of this project uh scope is about 13%.

So it's you know, 10% of uh 650 is 660 some thousand, and there was a breakdown of that.

Okay, thank you.

Very good.

Councilmember Shaw.

Thank you.

I'd like to move to approve item one D.

Okay, we have the uh uh motion.

Uh is there a second to the motion?

Motion is for approval consistent with the staff recommendation.

Uh Councilmember Gillick makes a second.

Um council member Shaw, did you want to speak to your motion?

Sure, I will.

Um I think good discussion.

I totally understand where people are coming from.

Um, but we've been hounding staff to get after these safe routes to schools, and we finally are moving forward in a really significant way with some federal funding.

I do not want to see this delayed or held up.

So I would encourage us to move forward with this tonight and continue if there are additional questions, shooting them to Mac or whatever needs to happen, but please let's not delay this um major investment in safe routes to school for our community.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Gullick.

You had the second, did you want to comment?

Quick.

Uh yeah, um appreciate the looking into this in terms of over engineering.

I see that as a possibility, but I I I also know um I'm working on a federal project right now, and the amount of time we have to spend on reporting is is huge, and someone has to pay that cost, and and we can't take in the shorts.

So thank you for the analysis staff on that.

I understand where that's additional the premium was coming from.

So I will be supporting the motion.

Very good.

Any other discussion on the motion?

Uh uh Counselor Boy.

Um I had one more question.

He ran away, of course.

What happens if we say no to this?

What happens to this federal grant?

Is there any time limit?

Um that says you have to use it or lose it by X date or whatever.

Um I would have to look into that question.

Uh I don't know that answer.

Um we kind of worked with planning on the grand side, so I'm now more in the execution side of the of the piece.

I'd have to find that out.

Very good.

Uh further comment, uh, Council Raspeler.

Yeah.

And to clarify, I had a couple conversations with Director Melling on this today.

I'm 100% in support.

And I think our TA dollars should be spent on safe routes to school.

What I'm objectionable to is that we use these on soft costs and not actually shovels in the dirt.

And we have to be more efficient.

I understand.

I'm I'm on the transportation commission for MDT.

I get it.

I get the the strings tied to federal projects.

That's not lost on me.

But there's a lot of stuff in here and in that long analysis that we got that also seems a bit ridiculous.

And so in my conversations with Director Melling, um, she assured me that we will deliver this project under contract, uh, below the contracted value.

I suggested to her that she could start by reducing the $55,000 that we're proposing to spend on public outreach for projects that have already been included in a safe routes to school planning document for things that have already been talked to death about.

Um that would be a great place to start, you know, cutting that at least in half and being more targeted instead of scatter shooting all over the place with public engagement.

I don't think we need a project website for a bikes and trails project.

That seems a little ridiculous to me.

Um, so I'm gonna vote against it.

I think we need to move these things forward.

I'm gonna vote against it in principle.

Um, but we need to be smarter about how we approach these things.

I think we got the answer and the contract we got because of our process.

We did not get our process is the problem.

The the contract is not the problem, our process is the problem.

And that's something that we need to figure out and fix.

Very good.

Thank you.

Any other comment?

Uh I'll just comment.

Uh, I found this uh discussion uh uh educational.

It's uh uh far above my pay grade, uh, understanding a lot of these details.

But um I appreciated uh uh Max uh detailed response for any member of the public who is interested.

I think that went to the council, so that'll be on the public's website and you can get a little more detail there.

Appreciate uh Council Aston Liter's um expertise.

But um I also know in my own experience there are such things as economies of scale.

And if there's anything that this project does not have, it's economies of scale, because it's really 19 different projects.

Now it's better than truly bidding them out as 19 separate projects, but whenever you have to uh deal with 19 different locations, it means you gotta go to 19 different places, different paperwork for 19 different projects.

And uh when we are talking about what our standard percentages, that's on a on a on a single project.

So um I would expect that any combination of a series of small projects is gonna be more expensive to deal with.

And um ultimately, though, I have to trust our staff.

I also also have to trust the market.

Uh, this was advertised for five weeks.

We got three responses.

This is what we have.

Um, that's the market at rate or at work.

So I have some confidence.

Also, um, when you divide those the the total cost, 672,000 by those 19 projects, by math, my math it comes to about 34,000 a project.

That's a lot of money for some of those really small things.

It's a very little amount of money for some of the much larger projects.

But um, once you divide that out, and it's not just design, that's only two of the 10 elements of each project.

Um, each one of those then has a series of sub-tasks.

I counted up 77 subtasks in total, times 19 projects or about four more than 1400 separate individual things that have to be done according to our scope of work.

So again, it's confusing, but I I it's it's a I I'm I'm content to rely on our staff on this one.

But if we can make it more efficient, improve the process, um, by all means, let's do that in the future.

So, but in the meantime, um, I'll vote in favor of this to keep moving the safe routes to school projects uh down the road um or down the sidewalk or whatever it is.

So, any further discussion before we proceed to a vote?

Okay, so if in favor of um uh the motion uh by council member Shaw, um uh in favor of item one D, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say uh if opposed, say nay, uh say nay.

Or if but yeah, if opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Uh voting in opposition, council members, Rogers, and Tidswell.

Um, all are uh council members voting uh in favor of the motion passes.

Uh next separated item is item one P.

Councilmember uh Ripsis, that's the resolution intent to expand the Sabura boundaries.

Uh that was your separation.

Thank you, Mayor.

I just separated this, so I I intend to vote against it tonight.

I um have had reservations about this, but I'm inclined to support the expansion of the the Super TIF district.

However, as I I said during the work session, I don't want to do that without seeing a financial projection of the the current district and what we have projected to to spend on uh not only the rec center, but what we might project to spend on the the pool and other major infrastructure projects in the uh in the expansion area.

Without that, I don't think we can give the people in the expansion area a an accurate view of what types of things we're actually be able to handle over the next uh 20 years.

So um like I said I'm I'm I'm generally inclined to support it.

I would love to see that list and that projection before it comes back to us to actually uh do the expansion so I could support it.

Um I might be the only one though so if I am I probably won't get to see that.

Councilmember Ripsis did you want to ask staff whether that is something that is in the works I don't know.

Yeah happy to ask um I don't know Chris Andy uh Wyeth is coming forward hey council member aspinlighter ascuse me council member ripsis and mayor and council um so if I'm I think I'm understanding your question in terms of um projects you mentioned both in the current uh district um also in the expanded area obviously specifically with the pool uh as one project but other projects that would be identified um so part of so the I guess the first thing is no we do not have that today we we certainly have it for we have a whole budget for South Billing so that's readily available and there's the numbers that have been proposed for the uh for the pool and um Andy you know we can we can certainly share that uh in terms of the area for expansion um what part of what we have to do and we're working on literally right now is we have to amend the urban renewal plan uh to reflect that we're including this expanded area and talk about um both the goals and priorities in that uh moving forward and so some of those are more general goals which you would see in the current plan like it talks about focusing on you know or supporting school improvements and school on school properties uh talks about uh public infrastructure like the evidence facility it talks about um pedestrian and safety projects so some of that would be the same in terms of at that level but certainly in terms of identifying some of the projects some of the information we we've collected as part of the effort to do the initial findings of blight analysis would go into that so there's going to be in that urban renewal plan draft um more information on projects and specifics within the expanded area um I don't know terms of exact numbers and such I don't know but I think we'll be able to share at least some of those uh project you know the infrastructure deficiencies and stuff that we've been looking at thank you and and I understand we're not going to be able to get to an exact dollar amount um my concern is just as as you remember when we uh a couple years ago we went through this discussion of whether or not we should be paving all the streets in the existing Sabura area and there were conversations that were had and promises that were felt to have been made um and I just don't want us to get in the position where we're talking about all the great things that can happen in the expansion area um but because we've already bonded out for the the rec center and the pool and some some other potentially large infrastructure projects which could we could probably just get a thumbnail like we we know these really big things have to happen and we just you know we'll throw a dart right um that that there may be very little capacity there to do other projects uh throughout the district and I just want to make sure that we're prevent presenting an accurate uh representation of what we can do or what we have some expectation of being able to do not which specific projects necessarily which is you know exact dollars we can't hold ourselves to that but um I just want to know that we're gonna have the capacity to do that before we make these promises so so for tonight I'm gonna know for that reason because I haven't seen that but if we can get there before it comes back with the actual resolution to expand then then I'll be happy to support it.

Thanks.

Very good uh uh further discussion councilmember gillick and and just a reminder we don't have a um uh motion on the table yet council member Shaw after council member gill it okay um Wyatt uh I spent a little bit since I read this um item but uh it's a it's a resolution of intent it is the idea that it's this isn't the final vote on this either we just we gotta have some sort of indication um that we're we're moving forward um continuing the process before we invest a lot of time to a uh a solution that addresses answers all of our questions is that fair to uh is that a fair character characterization uh council member gullick and mayor and council so uh to some extent yes I mean we've we've done some initial work obviously to determine that the area qualifies the expanded area for the expansion um we're in the now we're moving forward with the uh and analyzing as I just mentioned the um analysis looking at the current urban renewal plan and what uh updates

Is that fair to uh is that a fair character characterization?

Uh Councilmember Gullick and Mayor and Council.

So to some extent, yes.

I mean, we've we've done some initial work, obviously, to determine that the area qualifies the expanded area for the expansion.

Um we're in the now we're moving forward with the analyzing, as I just mentioned, the um analysis looking at the current urban renewal plan and what uh updates and amendments would need to be reflected there.

Um, but you're correct in the sense that tonight is kind of the council putting the community and the and the property owners within the current district and the expansion area that yes, we are intending to move forward with this process.

We're intending to now tonight set a public hearing to actually make the decision on the process.

And we're actually going to, as part of this, uh have a community meeting on October 9th at Orchard School to provide information about the process, which isn't part of the statutory requirements, but it's something we always that we do.

And we have to also, as part of that, notify everyone within the existing district and the expansion area.

So this is that piece that says yes, we're moving forward, we're setting the hearing, we're gonna have these things happen in the meantime, and then it will come back here for the ultimate decision in the end of October.

Great.

Thank you.

Uh Mayor, I'd like to make a motion.

I move to approve uh uh item one P, the resolution of intent to expand the boundaries of the South Billings Urban Renewal District.

Very good.

Um Councilmember Shaw indicated uh she wanted to make the second.

So uh I'll do that.

Uh, did you want to speak further to your motion and council member Shaw?

Thank you.

No, Councilmember Shaw.

Yes, thank you.

I just wanted to add um because there'd been a public comment at the beginning related to this item that um we have seen applications from schools within these TIFF districts come forward.

In my time on council, I've never seen council turn them down.

Um, and so I I know we've done a number of things over the years, so for the school districts that keep that in mind that this is also a potential resource, especially for those small dollar things.

Because I think council member ripsis is right.

We've got to get a good handle on you know the total scope of money, but there will be hopefully as the increment builds some more small dollars here um that can be spread around um not just some of the city focused projects, but to the school districts as well.

Thanks.

Very good.

Thank you.

Further discussion now on the motion.

Council member.

Thank you, Mayor.

I just wanted to speak um to the motion to speak in favor of the motion.

Um, I think it's would be hard to define a part of billings more in need of urban renewal than what is being expanded here in the uh in the in this boundary.

So I think this is the probably one of the most square fits into statutory language that we have.

And I I think I just really want to compliment the planning department staff for the thoroughness of the report.

And I think it's important we remember too that these TIFF districts are not static.

So while the financial projections that exist today are what they are, this opens up a tool to attract development to a part of the community that desperately needs it, where there's clearly identified infrastructure gaps, many of which can be filled through the private sector.

This report does an excellent job of identifying vacant buildings that can be rehabilitated to be neighborhood grocery stores, to be new residential mixed-use developments to bring some revitalization to the part of the community that quite frankly has been neglected in economic development.

And so I think this has um enormous potential, not just to make critical investments with the revenue that exists in the TIFF district now, but to attract development to an area where uh the development might go to a you know greenfield part of the community elsewhere.

I also think um it is important to remember that by expanding this district rather than looking at this particular part of the community for a new district, that the impact of the taxing jurisdictions is much much shorter.

So this will expire when the rest of the the TIFF district expires.

Um, and then hopefully if we have done a good job, and I think we must do a good job of investing in this part of the expanded district, there will be additional revenues that flow to all the taxing jurisdictions in a much shorter time than if a new TIFF district was uh implemented.

So I think this is very thorough analysis.

I think it's the right thing to do.

Um, and really looking forward to seeing this move forward.

Very good.

Thank you.

Further discussion on the motion.

Is there any further discussion on the motion?

Okay, we'll proceed to a vote.

The motion is for approval of item one P.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Okay.

Voting in opposition, council members Nice, Councilmember Ripsis.

Uh all other council members uh, I believe voting in favor.

So uh the motion passes.

Thank you very much.

Um the final separated item is item one q resolution establishing the public arts policy.

Councilmember Nice, that was your separation.

Did you want to start off?

Thank you, Mayor.

I just wanted to compliment the city and this and the staff and the committee who developed this um policy.

It's it's better than it first came to us.

It's changed a lot.

I I I separated out because I still uh am not gonna support it.

So that's the reason I separate it, but I do appreciate them working and and trying to get this so it's a no cost to the city.

I hope that remains a no cost to the city uh in time time to come.

But um I'll I'll let any someone else entertain the motion to pass.

Uh Council Barbara Rupstus.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'd make the motion to approve uh consent agenda item one Q.

Councilmember Boyette.

Uh Councilmember Rups, Council Boyette, either you want to speak to your motion.

Casper Boyett.

Um thank you, Mayor.

Um last year a friend of mine had uh was a uh artist uh making metal sculptures and he said, How am I gonna I have something I'd like to donate to the city?

We ended up going to Mike Pig, and he said, Ah, just put it wherever you want.

That's not what we need this.

We need somebody that knows what art is, they have some standards, where to put things, how to do things, some starting.

So we really need this moving forward.

Is it perfect?

Probably not, but we need to start somewhere right now.

Very good.

Any further discussion on the motion.

Uh seeing now, we'll proceed to a vote.

Motion is for approval of item one Q public art policy.

Uh, if in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Hey.

Uh voting in opposition, council members niche, council member Aspen Lider.

All other uh council members voting in favor.

Um motion passes.

Um that concludes item uh one, the consent agenda brings us to our regular agenda.

Uh Denise, would you like to uh please read item two?

Public hearing to receive input on FY 2024 and 2025 draft um comprehensive annual performance evaluation report.

Um that's the CAPER.

There's no action necessary by council this evening.

Excellent.

You're doing great.

Yeah, almost.

I want to almost there.

Whoops.

Uh get your start up at the top.

Okay.

You go.

Okay.

Very good.

Welcome, Brenda.

Brent, if you would introduce yourself and pull that microphone down so it's uh real close to your mouth, please.

Thank you.

Right.

Hello, folks.

Um, Mayor and honorable, honorable mayor and city council members.

I'm Brenda Beckett with the community development division.

And today we're doing a short presentation on our comprehensive annual performance evaluation report.

We do this every year.

Um, and we'll have a public hearing as well.

Oh, there we go.

Good.

Just a tiny delay there.

All right.

So it covers the period um of the last fiscal year for HUD from July 1 through June 30th.

Um today we're looking at achievements, and then we also ask for um current community needs from the city council and the public.

Our board always wants input for the application process, which we will begin um designing our applications um later on this fall.

And governing structure, you all know the basic governing structure to the city council and um right.

We also have two board openings right now.

Well, we have one board opening right now because it sounds like we got one assignment uh today during the consent agenda.

That's so that's fabulous.

Thank you so much, uh Mayor.

For that.

Um this is the fifth year of our um consolidated plan reporting.

So um and we, you know, you folks had just um approved this the consolidated plan for the next five years in April.

And so what what we're kind of looking at during this time period is uh from 2020 to 2025.

And the most significant thing that happened during that time, of course, is COVID and then um us managing um COVID-related impacts and after effects for those programs.

So most of our regular programming was um kind of suspended because we closed a lot of homeowners early on in that five-year time period, and then it trickled down just to a few every year.

And um, I think we ended up closing 107 first-time home buyer loans during the the entire five years.

But the um highest impact that we had was through the coronavirus funding that we received and also home ARP funding.

Um, and those were also uh COVID and pandemic related allocations from HUD.

So just a few of the accomplishments, you can, I'm sure you'll be able to check out the rest of the accomplishments in the CAPER itself.

But uh Mitchell Court Affordable Housing Development Project, it'll be 32 tonal units and home assistance is actually assigned to six units.

So whenever we see the reporting outcomes for this, it'll it'll be six units, but we all know it was 32 units that were currently under construction.

I believe that they're looking at um completion of construction and lease up by December.

HVAC replacement in the Washington School.

We actually didn't see this um accomplishment in our last reports to you, but we wanted to call that out.

It was a 300,000 um allocation for HVAC, and that was spurred on by the Delta variant that happened at the end of 2020 that um that targeted more children.

Uh Boys and Girls Club Foyer expansion.

That was another large project.

If anybody's been there before the before the expansion, there was just kind of a channel to bring people in, and there was no way to offer uh social distancing.

So that was facilitated by this by this funding.

And of course, the public restroom.

I I was shocked by there's almost like there's a hundred fleshes a day just about in that thing.

So I I was absolutely um surprised by that the high use that that unit gets downtown.

Other um parks amenities, um, yeah, at North Park, you can see all of those.

Um there's the there's the ball belt.

We had a question about that today.

And um adult um exercise equipment that's also been very popular and touchless features and uh and a new restroom.

Uh the St.

John's closure foreclosure program.

Um that property is finished and it is um up for sale.

We have a little sale flyer that is uh kind of being circulated circulated everywhere, and I believe it's also been listed on Zillow over the past couple of weeks.

And the current project is the Park Hill Drive Foreclosure project, and um, it's a very, very big house.

Um I'm hoping to get everybody there for uh a tour whenever it's completed.

It's a beautiful historic home.

So home ARP, um this home ARP funding is just for supportive services, and you can see the services under each organization.

And right now, I think that district seven HRDC and alternatives have done um they have re-upped on their grant agreement.

So I think that they're at 200,000 each.

And the Native American Development Corporation is still working on their first hundred thousand dollar grant.

Um, and so those are the services that are being um that are being offered.

And you can see that hundreds of families were served from July 1 to June 30th last year.

We're also working on a lead line, a lead water line replacement assistance program with public works, and um, this is the work that has been done to date for that.

Um our staff has boiled down the list of homeowner-occupied residential properties.

And um, and there's also a an information postcard that's been put together with a little uh QR code for a survey that says, are you going to be interested in this funding, interested in this um this program?

And um we're also working on policies and procedures, but we also need to wait for the public works department.

They have a flyer that needs to it has requirements that uh for public notification that have to be met by um as issued by Montana uh Department of Environmental Quality, and so they're waiting for that clarification from them.

Today we're looking at holding a public hearing, and the CAPER does not require any action.

That's it.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh Brenda, I'll ask counsel if you've got any questions for Brenda after which we will open up our public hearing.

Again, this was not an item that requires approval, but we do have to have the public hearing.

And it is an opportunity for questions.

So does anyone have questions for Brenda?

Councilman Rupsush.

Thank you, Mayor.

Actually, it's not for Brenda.

Would it be okay if I asked your question to Chris?

Absolutely.

All right.

Uh so Chris, in the um in the CD memo attached to the uh the the staff uh report, it mentioned that um knowledge of fair housing laws is one of the impediments uh to fair housing choice.

Um as you know, council approved a small amount of uh money this this in this year's budget to help boards with their own community community engagement efforts uh to communicate with the public and collect information from the public and share information, uh all those things that they they could really do.

Have the boards been um informed that this exists and know how to tap into it.

It seems to me that I don't want to put any uh you know words in their mouths, but it might be something that this particular board might want to tap into.

Councilman Arupsis, I I believe they are because I think we've had the conversation, the questions come up from some of those boards is how to best use those resources.

I don't know if there's anything more specific that maybe Wyas could clarify, but we've had a few conversations about that.

Yeah, sure.

Thanks, uh, Councilman Rupsis and Mayor and Council.

So I think um maybe one thing is further clarity on on those funds.

I think what and we have talked about it certainly with the community development board at at their meetings.

Um I think part of what we probably need to clarify with you and the with the budget is that our understanding was potentially some of that, or that was initially, you know, might be used for some research and investigation into different housing models and programs and things.

If if it's able to also be accessed for some outreach and educational components, then we would also look at that.

So I guess it may be partly on us and and just understanding what they're doing.

That's actually two different things.

There was one allocation uh for the boards themselves to do, and the other thing is we were talking, we were talking about that housing programs.

Right.

Um, that's that's a different.

I'm just asking about the money allocated for the board specifically to do community.

Okay, okay.

Then we'll I yeah, we'll have to follow up on that then.

I appreciate that.

Thanks.

Very good.

Uh again, so opportunity for questions for Brenda or or staff.

Um, are there any other questions before we open up for public hearing?

Uh I don't see anybody online, don't see any raised hands by the board.

So we will now open the public hearing uh for members of the public who are with us this evening.

This is your opportunity to comment on item number two.

Um the comprehensive annual performance evaluation uh for the community uh affairs uh or uh community development division of the city.

If you'd like to comment, please come to the podium.

Is there any public comment on item number two?

This is a public hearing.

Is there any public comment on item number two?

Before I close the public comment, last chance, no one's standing up, no one's coming forward.

We will close the public hearing on item two.

Um and uh move ahead.

If there's nothing else from council.

Um and and Chris, uh uh you may be about to say what I was about to say, which is I after all that discussion, I simply forgot about item number nine.

I never asked for uh whether you the council wanted to address that, and I apologize for that.

Uh, we did give an opportunity for the the public to comment.

There wasn't any comment.

So I think we're good.

If there's a motion you want to make that uh now, we can deal with that.

Otherwise, if there isn't a motion, we'll deal with it when we get to item number nine.

Council Mr.

Boyette.

Thank you, Mayor.

Okay, I'll make the motion to uh move item number nine with A B and C to October 13th.

Um, and to continue the um public hearing at such time.

Yeah, or begin the public hearing.

Okay, uh that's the motion.

Is there a second?

Second by councilmember Gulek.

Any discussion.

Uh Councilor Bernice.

What was the reason for the delay?

Uh we we did get uh an email, Chris.

Can you summarize that?

So applicant did give a specific or some loose ends.

Hunter Hunter uh was their contact uh person, so he'll give you the lowdown.

Thank you, Honor.

Good evening, Mayor and Councilor, Councilor Needs.

Um in brief, there were some traffic concerns um regarding the overall project as a whole that we were not comfortable with continuing uh this approval process until those were uh figured out.

So uh after confirming with the applicant, we wanted to delay this project until the next city council meeting in order to ensure that we have all the correct information uh regarding the traffic in the area.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

And then uh Mayor Gina, this uh this uh as this motion is before us is not gonna have to require re-notice is everything's done according to what you want to see done so it's not have to doesn't have to be renoticed for the October meeting.

Actually, it's so if I'm understanding correctly what what Wyatt has said, and the motion is to remove it from the agenda, place it on a subsequent agenda.

It will have to be.

Okay, so they are gonna read Reno's, but the whole process doesn't have to start over.

No.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Just the hearing notice.

Yeah.

Very good.

Any other discussion?

Okay, we'll uh proceed to a vote.

The vote is uh, as you heard to uh delay this item to October 13.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

Thank you.

Uh now uh Denise, would you please read item number three?

Public hearing and resolution assessing um weed abatements can hear me.

Can you hear me now?

Okay, you can't move yours.

Okay, I'll just speak really loudly because I don't know what just happened.

Here, how's that?

There you go.

All right.

Public hearing resolution assessing weed abatements.

Um staff recommends approval.

Andy.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

I have a few items before you, so we'll work through them in order, of course.

Item three is the weed abatements.

There were 34 properties.

Uh there are 34 properties on the resolution before you presently, totaling $7,000.

Uh these uh we we do this twice a year.

These are to assess the uh weed chart.

Um the weed mowing uh when it's not addressed through code enforcement.

Uh some pictures there for you.

And just a sample of before and after.

Uh since this agenda has been published, we have had seven people come in and pay.

Uh so I would ask that you amend exhibit A to that uh resolution to replace it with this exhibit A, which has seven fewer properties uh since they have paid.

So the total outstanding as of I think 130 this afternoon is five thousand five hundred and ninety-nine dollars and eighteen cents.

That's all I have for this one, mayor.

Reminder, it's a public hearing.

Very good.

Uh questions for Andy or motion.

Council Bernice.

Uh public hearing.

Or I apologize.

Thank you very much.

Yes, we're this is a public hearing.

Um, if you would like to comment on item number three, uh, the proposed weed abatements, please come to the podium and tell us your name and keep your comments to three minutes.

Is there any public comment on item three?

Any public comment on item three?

This is a public hearing.

No one's coming forward.

We'll close the public hearing.

Uh now, council.

Any questions or motion?

Councilmember Nice.

Mayor, having um conducted a public hearing, considered written and spoken public testimony.

I move to approve the resolution uh assessing weed abatements as recommended by staff and with the exhibit being adjusted uh by the uh removal of the properties who have been paid.

Very good.

Second, second by councilmember Boyette.

Either of you like to speak to your motion.

No.

Any discussion by the council.

You heard the motion.

Motion is for approval with the amended uh exhibit a.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay, motion passes unanimously.

That completes item three.

Denise, would you read item number four?

Public hearing and resolution assessing nuisance property abatements, abatements.

Staff recommends approval.

Andy.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

There are two properties uh that are we're requesting uh be assessed for new sites property abatement, uh, both identified in the staff memo as well as up on the slide.

Uh a total of about $1,500.

These funds will be used to reimburse the general fund, which code enforcement pays for the abatement initially, and then these funds would reimburse for that.

Um here again, a few before and after photos.

And uh Tina here is here.

If there's questions specific to this, on these ones, there is no need to make an amendment as those two properties are currently outstanding.

Okay, very good.

Uh any questions for Andy?

Uh don't see any.

So we'll this is a public uh hearing.

If anyone would like to comment on item four, the proposed nuisance property abatements.

This is your opportunity.

Please come forward to the podium.

Is there any public comment on item number four?

This is a public hearing.

Last chance.

Any public comment on item number four?

No one's coming forward, so we'll close the public comment period.

Casper Braspeliter.

Having conducted a public hearing considered written and spoken public testimony.

I move to approve the resolution assessing new nuisance property abatements as recommended by staff.

Second.

Second by Councilmember Nice.

Uh, either of you like to speak to your motion.

Uh just to thank Tina and her team for the work that they're doing.

Um, this isn't tough.

This is tough work.

It's not fun work, uh, but it is important work in our communities and keeping keeping our community clean and safe.

So thank you for for the work that you and your team are doing.

Okay, good.

Thank you.

Uh anything else, Councilman?

Just did.

Council, anything else?

We have uh discussion.

Uh okay, we'll proceed to vote.

Motion is for approval.

Item four, uh, no changes to the uh two properties identified in the exhibit in the staff report.

Uh, if in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

Denise, please read item five.

Public hearing a resolution assessing false alarm responses.

Staff recommends approval.

Andy.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Uh, this is actually the first time you've ever assessed false alarm violations.

Uh, a couple of years ago, you guys passed an ordinance for false alarm uh charges uh on commercial properties, believe after the after the second free one in the calendar year, it's 250 dollars per visit by police and fire.

Uh and the ones that remain unpaid, uh your resolution or ordinance, I don't recall which allow for the assessment to go on to taxes.

These are all significantly past due.

Um here again, we did have some come in and pay.

Um, so the total now of the amended exhibit A is 11,750.

Uh so asking that you prove this or these assessments with the uh with the amended exhibit A.

Very good.

Questions for Andy.

Um Andy, I'll just start.

How's it going?

Now that since this is the first time we've done this, um, is everybody happy with the terms of our ordinance or not that we're gonna do it tonight, but just uh looking down the line, uh, do we need to make any changes?

Um I I've heard comments, although I don't know that there's data to support it or not.

I'm not saying that wrong, but I've heard comments that perhaps uh increasing it at a maybe another tier might provide more of an incentive.

Um some of some of the larger abusers in town uh did not respond in the way you know the idea was they stop having false alarms.

Um I think some of the large abusers just wrote the check and keep on going.

These are just the ones who haven't paid.

So um, you know, there's there's a few people who didn't seem to change their ways, but I don't have any data to support whether that's true or not.

But you know the total number of uh uh assessments that we have levied, paid and unpaid uh since we started the ordinance or per year or yeah, I I think annually we bring in I want to say about fifty thousand dollars combined between police and fire assessments.

It's not small.

Um so yeah, I I don't know what that necessarily equates to in number of violations.

Okay, all right, thank you.

Yeah, other questions or uh comments or uh and we will have to have a public hearing.

Councilmember Denise?

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

Um Andy, I noticed the top first one is the Billings Hotel and Convention Center.

Have we paid them or the TIF funds yet?

Are they have they already done their project and we're paid out?

I believe so, yeah.

Okay, yeah.

All right.

They they have since paid this.

They have.

Yeah, that's they're scratching.

Oh, I see that.

That's a new list there in front of me.

Sorry about that.

Very good.

Uh any further questions for Andy before we have our public hearing.

Councilmember Gillick.

Andy, then these fines, do they go to the police department or do they go into the general fund?

They go to the public safety fund of the AD family.

I should make them.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Anything further?

Uh Councilman Gillick.

Um, sorry, we need to.

Yeah, we have to have the public hearing.

So okay, this is public hearing.

Uh, if anybody would like to comment on the uh false alarm uh assessments, uh, which is item number five, please come forward.

Just ask to keep the comments to three minutes and uh tell us your name.

Any public comment on item number five?

So there's a public hearing.

Or I close public hearing, any final opportunity.

No one's coming forward.

So we'll close the public comment period on item number five.

Back to council.

Council, we have two even eager beavers down there.

Uh uh, whose birthday is closest to today?

You can get make the motion.

Okay.

Well, Councilman Renee said.

You don't even know when mine is.

Exactly.

Having conducted a public hearing, consider written and spoken public testimony.

I move to approve a resolution assessing false alarm responses as recommended by staff and with the amendment uh adjusted as the staff uh gets payments.

Very good.

Councilmember Elick, you want to make the second, I'm sure.

All right.

Uh either like of you like to speak to your motion.

Council Bernice.

I would thank you.

I I really appreciate this seeing this as working, seeing the funds that are coming in.

That's like half a police officer, you know, as far as what you're talking about.

And so it's it's good to see that the the business owners that are causing some of the work being having to pay for it uh and paying for for things.

This is something that uh I have one of the first things that I think Frank and I worked on a long time ago on city council trying to get other ways of revenue to offset some of the costs of the city.

And so this is one great one.

I hope we look for others in the city that we can do something similar to this.

So thank you.

Very good.

Thank you, Council McGulik.

Nothing.

Uh other council members.

Any further discussion on the motion?

Seeing none, uh proceed to the vote.

The vote is or the motion is to approve item number five um with the revised uh exhibit.

Uh if in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

Um thank you.

Denise, uh, would you please read item number six?

Public hearing resolution re-leveying and reassessing SID 2925, work order 2207.

Staff recommends approval.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council.

Uh, what we're seeking this evening is essentially respreading SID 2925.

Uh, what happens sometimes or many times is we we will borrow funds based upon an estimated construction cost.

You guys assess that over the SID boundary when the construction is complete if there are unspent funds, in this case, just under $75,000.

Those are used to basically pay down the debt early, and then we reduce the assessments by that amount.

So the property owners aren't paying it.

Um so this would be respreading the remainder uh over the term of the debt, which is 10 years remaining on that.

That's all I have, Mayor.

Very good.

Any questions for Andy?

Okay, we'll uh open up for public hearing.

This is a uh public hearing.

Uh, would anybody like to be heard on item number six?

Any comment on item number six?

This is a public hearing.

No one's coming forward.

We'll close the public hearing.

Uh council, council member boyet.

Thank you, Mayor.

Having conducted a public hearing considered written and spoken public testimony, I move to approve a resolution re-levening and reassessing SID 2029 as recommended by staff.

Second by Councilmember Gillick.

Uh Councilmember Boyack, Council Gillick, would either you'd like to speak to your motion.

Councilmember Gillick.

Just real quick.

That I mean, it's it's nice to see the numbers coming down uh a few years back.

Uh they were all going up, up, up.

So I I really appreciate that.

And I I guess for the um for a citizens of the community, it's nice to know that the city's keeping track and and uh and it a little bit money back.

So good work.

Good.

Thank you.

Um further discussion on the motion.

Is there any further discussion on the motion?

Seeing none, we'll move to the vote.

Uh motion is for approval of item number six, consistent with the staff recommendation.

If uh in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Uh motion uh passes unanimously.

Uh brings us to item number seven.

Denise, would you please read item number seven?

Public hearing for land use contrary to zoning to install an electronic message display um wall sign at Alkali Creek Elementary School.

No action is necessary.

Thank you.

Very good.

Here we go.

Welcome.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Um, tonight we have land use contrary to zoning, application number eight.

Um it is for Alkly Creek Elementary, which is located at 681 Alkly Creek Road.

Um, it is a public two zone, and they are requesting an EMD sign for the front facade of their school.

Um, this is just kind of a reminder of the land use contrary to zoning process.

Um, this is just to open a public hearing.

We are not going to be voting on this.

So here is the aerial of the school with an arrow pointing to where that sign location um is proposed.

So here's the existing sign that currently sits where that arrow was pointing to.

It is a manual changing um message.

And they are proposing um so a stagnant wall sign that just says so the outcly creek elementary will be a stagnant sign, and then to the right of it will be the electronic messaging board.

And that is the presentation.

Any questions?

Any questions for Tate?

Councilman Gillick.

We did get a couple of messages from members of the public concerned about bright boards.

So I recognize that we as uh city do not have the ability to determine whether or not this sign can be placed.

Um but how about um if it's it's too bright?

I understand our ordinances um there's certain requirements that at nighttime in particular.

Um signs can't be too bright, and they need to have some sort of setting that reduces that.

Is that still within the purview of our zoning ordinances to enforce that?

Yes.

Yeah, so that will still be enforced, the dimming um at nighttime, so that way the sign is not super bright.

Okay, thank you.

I'll make sure to um notify members of the public that at least they have that uh if it is a nuisance to them.

Very good.

Uh any other questions for Tate.

Okay.

Um we'll open up our public hearing then.

Uh, just again for the public.

This is not something that we uh will vote on, but we are obligated to have a public hearing so that the public can have an opportunity to comment.

If you would like to comment on um item number seven, uh the proposed electronic message uh display wall at Alcali Creek Elementary.

This is your opportunity.

Please come forward.

Is there any public comment on item number seven?

Is there any public comment on item number seven?

Final opportunity.

This is a public hearing for item number seven.

No one is coming forward.

Uh, we'll close the public comment period.

Um counsel, before we move on to I eight, or are there any any other questions or or comments of your own?

You also have the opportunity to comment.

Okay, seeing none, we'll uh move on to item number eight.

Um, Denise, would you read item eight, please?

Public hearing is special review one zero zero one.

A special review to allow construction of a new surface parking lot for energy laboratories at 1108 and 1110 South 28th Street.

Zoning Commission recommends conditional approval and adoption of the findings of the nine review criteria.

Welcome again.

Thank you.

Good evening again, Mayor and Council.

Let me just get this pulled up.

Okay.

So tonight we have special review 1001.

Um it is for a new surface parking lot, generally located at 1108 and 1110 South 28th Street.

Energy Laboratories is the owner, and Stephanie Donovan with AE Design is the agent.

Um, this is just a little overview of the special review.

Um, think of them as special exemptions within the zone district, so they are not by right allowed uses.

Um, and the proof of the compatibility with the use kind of falls with the applicant to kind of prove it through those nine review criteria.

So here's the subject parcel.

It's actually two lots.

Um together they make about a 0.4 acre sized parcel.

Um, it's currently zoned CMU two, so corridor mixed use two.

Um, it's kind of surrounded by a mix of zoning.

To the east, we have DX, which is downtown support.

So that's that blue kind of slatted lined um colors on the map.

Um to the south, we have industrial zoning, so both industrial one and two, those grays, as well as some CMU one, which is that lighter pink or red color.

Um, to the north, we do have residential zoning.

We have N1, as well as some mixed residential, so some higher density units.

And here's that development, just so you can kind of see on an aerial view to see the development kind of around.

So here is a view of the subject parcel.

Here is a view looking north on South 28th Street.

Here's a view to the south.

This is looking east across South 28th Street, and that is energy labs offices.

Um, just so you guys know.

This is looking west.

Um, so this house is currently on one of those parcels, and they do plan to demolish it and deconnect it from um any kind of utilities.

All right, so the zoning commission is recommending conditional approval based on the findings and recommended or conditions of approval.

Um they found it to be consistent with the growth policy and the infill development policy um by meeting or by having a development on uh near existing city infrastructure, which helps to reduce costs.

Um they also found that it meets the strong neighborhood goals of the infill development, as well as producing a neighborhood that's safe, attractive, and provides essential services.

And it also meets the prosperity goals of promoting successful businesses that provide local jobs that benefit the community, as well as um community investments that will attract and retain a strong, skilled and diverse workforce.

Um so this is a well-planned site, like I said, on an infill lot.

Um it's compatible with the surrounding uses.

It will be minimized there, sorry.

It will be impacts will be minimized through landscape buffering, fencing, and shielded lighting.

And it's going to provide 40 off-street stalls that will reduce congestion and on street parking in the area.

So here are the conditions that we have established.

They are pretty um standard conditions.

Uh I will note after talking with the applicants or the agent, I should say, the landscape architect.

We did determine that it would be better to place the bicycle racks closer to the building rather than on the street in the parking lot.

So there was a change to one of those conditions just of the movement of the bicycle racks.

Um, other than that, like I said, pretty standard, just to build that 40 stall surface parking lot.

It should be developed within the site uh conformance with the site plan.

Um they'll apply for all and necess all necessary permits, then that bicycle rack condition I mentioned, which we would be moving to closer to the building just for the ease of the users on the bikes.

Um no construction between or before seven and after eight.

Um and then just basically that all development will meet all parts of the code and that this will run with the land.

So here is a site plan.

So you can see their plans.

Um they will have landscaping around all sides, and they're also replacing there's an existing chain link fence um that exists on the north side of the property.

They'll be replacing it with a vinyl fence as well to just kind of help with that buffering.

So here's just more uh a civil plan so you can kind of see.

And just another kind of existing condition versus what they have planned.

Do you guys have any questions?

Uh questions for Tate.

Council Mayor Bruce is thank you, Mayor.

Tate, do you have any idea of why um north of the energy lab building right on 27th is a very nice grass area?

The grass looks really nice, but why aren't they using some of that as parking instead of uh knocking down a house and no?

Yeah.

So this is kind of coming on the heels of a plant addition that they're actually going to build in that grass area.

Um this parking lot is going to help with the required parking that will come along with that added square footage for the addition.

Um, so this is just kind of to mitigate it since they are going to be building on that lot.

Great.

So to follow up on that, um, it sounded like from the staff memo that the extra parking spaces were not necessarily because of the addition.

Um, they may add jobs over time, but they don't necessarily need those job, those parking spaces for the addition.

Is it accurate to say that they're creating those parking spaces because city has code that says you need so many parking spaces if you have a building?

Um I'm sure the agent can needs.

Yeah, and the agent will speak more on it now.

Um, they have an already existing issue with parking.

Um, I believe they have a kind of a gentleman's agreement with the church next door that they're actually using some of their parking right now.

It just gets pretty congested on the street parking um for their employees.

So that was kind of brought up as another reason why they would need this parking lot to kind of help with that congestion of street parking and allow the church to keep their parking lot for their their own uses when they need it.

All right, I guess we'll ask for the the agent when they're up.

Thank you.

Very good.

Council Shaw.

Thank you.

I I am really appreciate the landscaping around the parking lot.

I was reading in the memo that it there it also includes lighting, is that correct?

I just wanted to confirm that.

And then my second question is related to septed.

I just from the drawing, it looks like a lot of trees and tall bushes.

And I think I don't think anybody wants to create an enclosed space that um where people can hide and who knows what could happen after dark.

So um, if you could just address those two questions, um lighting and then septe of the landscaping around the parking lot.

Yeah, so for lighting, there are proposed lighting um that will be included.

Um, I believe it's gonna be on the medians of the parking islands.

Um and then as for SEPTED, uh the landscaping was done in accordance to our landscaping code.

Um, so I would imagine uh that the trees and everything like that and bush height is all kind of addressed in our landscaping code to ensure that it's not kind of creating, you know, uh an enclosed box of a parking lot.

If it's not, we definitely should address it in the landscaping code.

Um but I can't remember off the top of my head if what's in there.

So thank you.

Appreciate that.

Yep.

Very good.

Thank you, Council Bernish.

Yeah, mayor.

I I guess I'll ask why at this because subtevs been talked quite a bit, but I did not I guess you can refresh my memory, but I don't think SEPTED is in our landscaping code.

I might that's something that kind of came after this code was developed that the council has been pressure, you know, kind of pushing this forward.

And so can you speak to that?

Because I agree when I look at all this, I think there's gonna this is going to get overgrown and it's gonna cause some hiding places.

And I'm concerned that we this the code doesn't address that.

Um, council member niece and mayor and council.

So and um hopeful, you know, I it'll be good to have the applicant's agents speak a little bit to the design because what so your first question, um, our current landscaping code, yeah, we don't regulate septed in our landscaping code.

The city has not decided to incorporate that into any of our current regulations, building landscaping, uh, you know, other other code.

However, however, however, um we what we are seeing is that the design professionals as as projects are coming in, uh, they are um addressing and reflecting septed principles.

And so we're seeing the the types of plantings and stuff that are you know that stay low, they don't grow up, they the trees have to be you know trimmed up.

Um, and in this case, obviously we also have um uh property on the corner.

So we're you know, there's clear vision, there's some other things.

So I would just say that yeah, we're we're seeing that happen uh in the community with the development and landscape professionals, but um, we don't currently have anything that's yeah, that calls all that out throughout our codes.

Right.

And the sub tip was mainly that we as a city want to adopt that, but volunteer for the businesses to and and encourage them that it's best for them to look at this type of principle to design that way.

So um I guess while you're here, the only other question I had is what we not too long ago just approved an exception for Allegian school to build our parking without these middle type uh medians because adds expense not only in the construction of it, but then the ongoing maintenance of this.

Do we know how much this is going to increase their cost just to operate this parking lot because they're gonna have to now the their people are gonna have to plow differently and charge them more because it's costing more to plow around these things, and then also what what cost increase this design by having these center trees uh what kind of added costs is that to this development?

Uh council member niece and Marin Council, I do not know anything about that.

Um, I do know that they're part of the plan is uh within those two um center parking islands is where their lighting is located also for for the development.

But yeah, they're meeting the requirements, and I'm not even sure if if it's exceeding, but it's certainly meeting the requirements of our uh current landscape regulations.

Okay, well, I I I appreciate that.

And I maybe this is the what they want to do, and they're accepting the cost.

I just think sometimes our designs are adding cost to the projects, and I'm not so sure we we we we can probably get the trees that we need, the landscaping we need around a project, not without having to add that additional cost in the future.

But if that's our landscaping code right now, that's what it is.

I think we need to look at changing that if it's costing developers more to not only build, but also to maintain.

Councilmember Nees, yeah, I I think to trying to balance that between, yeah, having the right improvements, also addressing, you know, there's there's other things like stormwater and you know, management of that across properties.

We do have requirements based on the number of spaces as well.

So that all comes into play depending on how you're laying out your site.

One of the things with the Allegian project was they were incorporating further landscaping along um an area where they're gonna continue to expand.

So we were kind of dealing with a partially developed but ongoing project there versus this one where they're gonna complete it and be done.

But yeah, and again, maybe the applicant can speak to some of the the design elements as well.

Okay, thank you.

Very good.

Um further questions for uh staff.

Okay, we have um uh this is uh uh public hearing, so we'll proceed to the public hearing.

Um is there any public comment on item number eight, special review 1001?

If so, please come to the podium.

We just asked that you keep your comments to three minutes and tell us who you are.

If you're the developer, we'll be generous on that three minutes, but Stephanie Donovan, agent for energy labs is now a good time to speak up.

Okay.

Um, so I wanted to address some of your questions that you had um just a few minutes ago.

You asked about uh the number of required parking stalls.

So with that new addition, we're estimating that 53 stalls are required.

Um so that parking lot we just saw has 40.

So we would make up the remainder in the existing parking lot that's just south of the existing energy labs building.

Um so we're we're pretty much right there with the number of stalls.

Um and then to address um questions about um just the landscape.

I can just kind of talk about the landscape design briefly.

Um all the shrubs are low, they're 30 inches or lower, so they're not tall, um, which meets um you know septed standards, you know, they're they're not tall enough for people to hide behind.

Um yes, all of the um trees are required, all of the shrubs are required.

So the um it's required to have 75% organic coverage on the ground.

Um so if you use, you know, for example, like stone stone mulch, you need 75% of that ground cover to be live, like living.

Um, so that's why it might look a little bit busy on plan view.

Um when they're first installed, they're really tiny.

So they'll they'll grow eventually.

Um and then in terms of of tree height, you know, that comes with maintenance and trimming those trees up higher so that um nothing is growing too low.

Um right now, you know, energy labs, I think does a really good job of maintaining the property they have.

It's pretty clean and maintained, it's not full of weeds.

So um, you know, they'll be working with their new with their landscape crew to keep to maintain this new parking lot for them.

You know, they they want the same things, you know.

If their employees are gonna be parking here, they don't want an unsafe condition.

They don't want to lead them to that.

So they're really going to be on top of making sure that land that uh parking lot and the landscaping feels safe for their employees.

Um I'm sorry, go ahead.

Were you finished?

Um, I think that was it.

Was there anything else?

I guess any other questions that you had that I can do.

Any questions for Stephanie?

Council member Ripsis.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Um so you said 53 parking spaces are required.

Correct.

Um are those required for new hires?

Uh existing employees, or is that a 53 that are required because it's the the size of the building that's put in?

Yes, that's a great question.

So um the way the parking code works is that it's based on type of use.

So some of that building is dedicated to office, some of its lab, some of it's storage.

So they take those categories and calculate parking requirements based off of those categories.

That's what the city calculated as parking that was required based on the expansion of the building.

Yes.

Well, we're how many how many new parking spaces are required to meet the organizational operational needs of energy labs?

Um that I would have to check on.

Um, you know, we were just meeting code for this, but um yeah, it may not be that high.

Um that's it didn't sound like it was that high from the staff memo.

It said that it sounded from the staff memo that new employees might be hired over time, but this was primarily a a lot that we're gonna be paving over simply to meet a requirement in the city code.

Yes, yes, primarily yes, so that we can move the project forward, but also yes, give them that opportunity to grow, you know, to keep filling those the that parking lot as that business grows.

Um so you know, it doesn't make sense from a staging and construction like standpoint to like build it piecemeal either.

So if they they don't have 53 employees, you know, it doesn't make sense to build half of it and then come back a few later and build it again, like you get much better cost by doing it all at once as well.

Thank you.

Very good.

Any other questions uh for Stephanie?

Does see any?

So if you had anything else, go ahead.

But if not, um we'll continue the public hearing.

Yeah, I think lastly, those islands were required.

So we're putting them in.

Um all the trees are required.

So I know you had a question about the islands.

So I don't have a question.

Uh council.

If you were if that was an option not to put those in, would you design it without those?

Would that be a better is that is that less expensive for you to build and operate and maintain?

Yes, it would be because it's less less landscaping, a little bit less curving, a little bit less, you know, work, like you know, labor to form that.

It might make it easier to plow.

Um potentially, I mean, this is just my opinion, but you know, maybe for the size.

Do you have any any any cost estimates of what this is adding to the project?

Yeah.

No, I wouldn't know that off the top of my head and went without breaking it down.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh Council Gillett.

Well, uh, just to I guess a follow-up question on that point.

Uh would not the islands be helpful in reducing the urban heat island effect and shading vehicles and reducing um just I guess uh maybe the car would be a lot harder, I guess, without the trees.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yes, it does support that too from that standpoint.

Um, absolutely.

And they do require canopy trees in those parking lot islands.

So they have to have like a 30 foot uh diameter at minimum.

So something like that in a parking lot is is definitely gonna shade those cars, yeah, reduce how hot it is and miserable is when you get into your car.

So there's definitely pros and cons to having islands and trees.

And and maybe one further thing, we did it.

Seems like uh best practices I've seen design practices typically require that there be a certain amount of trees, uh, spacing uh uh on parking lots of all sizes, I guess.

And this one's maybe on the smaller end of those things, but uh when you have really large expanses of basphalt, it you know, does this seem like a uh a best practice for design of uh parking lots?

Um from that standpoint, yes, I would agree.

Um I love being able to shave shade pavement as much as I can as a designer, and if I have the opportunity to place them in an area where um it really optimizes that that shade from with that southern exposure, I will do my best to do that.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Very good.

Any other questions for Stephanie?

Don't see any.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you.

We'll continue the public hearing.

Is there anybody else who would like to be uh heard on item number eight?

Any other public comment on item number eight before we close the public hearing?

Any other comment on item number eight?

No one's coming forward.

We'll close the public comment, period.

And uh look to council.

Councilmember Ashlighter.

I've been conducted a public hearing, consider written and spoken testimony.

I move to approve special review 1001 and adopt the findings of the nine review criteria as recommended by the zoning commission.

Very good.

Councilmember uh Rogers, in the case you'd like to make the second, uh either of you like to speak to your motion.

No, no.

Further discussion on the motion.

Council Member Rups is Mayor.

I'm just gonna vote against this.

I'm gonna find um for criteria number one.

Um it doesn't appear to me that there's really any business driver for this.

This is this is not a fault of energy labs.

It's a fault of our own um uh policies, uh requiring excessive parking.

Um there this is an area where there is tons of street parking, uh parking readily available within a block of of this facility, and simply because they're putting up a new uh building, they're being required to pave this these lots.

Um I think that's exact opposite of good smart and field development.

Um, and so I'm gonna find against criteria number one.

Thank you.

Very good.

Further discussion.

Customer Bernish.

Mayor, I think I I agree with uh Tom uh on this.

I I think we're over over requiring uh businesses and development to do things that maybe isn't the best interest for the business.

So I I'm gonna vote against this.

I don't think it's something we can change tonight to say, well, maybe you don't have to do it, or maybe we we need to relook at the code.

But I I think I think we need to send a message to somehow we need to get review this so we're not causing businesses and developers to jump through and add more expense to their their operations as they they go to develop.

Thank you.

Further discussion on the motion.

Um for proceeding to vote.

Um I'm just gonna join the Lorax and speak for the trees.

I like trees.

They cool our area, they add value, they keep crime away, they keep property values up.

I like trees.

So with that, uh anything else before we proceed to a vote.

Okay.

Uh if in favor of the motion, which is for approval, item number eight, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Nay.

And it's not against the trees.

Yeah.

With that condition.

Council Member Rups is council Radis voting at the opposition, all of the council members voting in favor.

Uh, the motion passes.

Um that concludes item eight.

We previously uh uh adjourned uh item number nine to a later date, bringing us into item number 10.

Um Denise, would you read item number 10?

Resolution renewing the citizen police advisory board for four years, December 31st, 2029.

Expiration staff recommends approval.

Chief.

Mayor, Council, good evening.

Um the Citizens Police Advisory Board was created in 2021 uh by resolution.

Uh in that it stipulated board makeup and also an um tasking and an expiration date, uh, which is approaching the end of this year.

Um what was provided for you in the packet was uh a red line, uh copy of the resolution and then a clean copy for your consideration with some changes.

Uh specifically, we do not have uh content experts in the area of continuum of care and substance abuse connect.

Those organizations no longer exist.

And uh the board has simply requested seven at-large members uh rather than uh specialty areas.

Uh and other than that, uh there are no other significant changes uh for your consideration.

Mayor.

Very good.

Uh questions for the chief.

Well, I guess uh uh Chief, this is um who's making this recommendation.

Uh I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'll put words in your mouth.

My understanding is this is what the board itself was proposing with your uh agreement.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

Um further questions, Councilmember Boyette.

Thank you, Mayor.

Chief, uh, as I remember back in 21, you were the one of the people that advocated for this.

That's correct.

Has it done any good?

Has it achieved what you wanted?

Is it good, bad, or indifferent?

Please give us your opinion.

Uh certainly there has been some progress, council member.

If you look at the duties of the board, uh recruitment, retention, um, crime prevention, community support and engagement and data collection.

Uh, they've worked tirelessly to provide that.

Um, if you recall the uh onset of this committee coughed and sputtered.

Uh we had some delay in appointments.

We had some resignations, we had some no-shows.

Took a little while to uh to get up and running.

Uh, but once they did um a pretty significant impressive body of work.

Uh they also presented to this body, um, I want to say in March, April, um, of the progresses uh on that.

Uh and from my point of view, what I would say is that um it provides uh yet another avenue for citizens to uh learn about the police department.

Uh we've had people bring complaints uh to uh to the uh police advisory board.

Um it has given them an opportunity to learn about the police department from our uh staff as well.

Uh they put together a safety campaign, uh, which is on uh the city's website and the department's website.

Uh that too kind of died on the vine for the time being uh with the loss of the city's PIO.

They were leaning very heavily on that.

So working on on that.

Uh from my standpoint, council member, what I would say is that they have validated, in my opinion, what it is that we're doing across the board.

Uh we're doing the right things the right way.

Uh they bring fresh ideas.

Some of them are way out there, some of them there are doable, but nonetheless, that's what you want.

Uh as you're well aware, sometimes you get so close to the issue that you just can't see anything else.

So bringing uh a uh wide variety of expertise, um, I should say experience in the community, uh, has been helpful just to listen to other things.

An internal debate that we certainly have or we can have uh is we were currently we meet monthly.

Um I don't think we need to meet monthly, but again, that is uh not your concern.

Uh what we would ask is that you allow this group another four years to continue to build on uh those four tasks that you have you've given us there.

They made some pretty good headway, and I think we can continue to do the good work.

Thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

Um other questions for the chief.

Councilmember Nice.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

Chief, you gave us some good specific specific items that they've helped you with.

One of the things I've when we formed this, we were really looking for more data collection and analysis and how they would help the department kind of revamp their entire data system because it's so difficult a lot of time to get reports and information out of that.

So can you speak to what they've done as far as the data collection and analysis for the PD and how that can improve and what they're working on?

And Chief, before you uh give your answer, which I obviously encourage you to do.

I'll just ask um uh uh Jordan Weber, who was just added to the board.

That's his expertise.

And so that was one of our goals.

So I'd like to ask that same question to him when you're done.

But I just want him to be uh aware he's gonna be called on.

So Chief, go ahead.

Uh thank you.

And I will defer to uh to Mr.

Weberette.

Um I mean, candidly, nothing uh at this point.

Uh, but what we have in place now is a uh a new crime analyst, which is bringing uh all sorts of uh of uh of new information, new ways to look at uh things that we're dealing with.

Uh and then of course, Jordan just came on board and uh, you know, they're going to get together to look at some stuff.

Um keep in mind, um, you know, the crime analyst has other things to do than crunch out numbers for the police advisory board.

And also, I mean, we're working with uh the U.S.

attorney's office, county attorney's office.

Uh just had a uh hour and a half conference call with a University of Michigan professor to really refine our project safe neighborhood, which is essentially a program going after the worst of the worst uh of violent crime.

Um and our crime analyst is key.

Uh there's nobody else in the county that can do it, uh, do that type of work.

Uh, and I'm afraid he's gonna turn into a PSN crime analyst, which I already said that's not gonna happen.

Um he supports PD operations.

Um and so uh yeah, looking forward to him working with with Jordan on stuff.

Um again, a different look, fresh um fresh ideas of what it is that we're doing.

I'm looking for validation, or are we doing the things the right way or more efficiently and effectively, which goes right down the old uh uh CPSM report?

That was the whole gist of that, and we want to build on that.

And um, if there's no further questions for me, your honor, I'll uh step aside and just don't go too far away.

There may be some other questions.

Before he leaves that podium, I had one more question for him.

And this could help some maybe set Matt up to talk about it.

But so, Chief, um, if I were to ask you for a report like I did several years ago, it's probably three to four years ago.

I um in fact it was probably when he formed the committee in 2021.

But um, is it still gonna take you know two days and two or three officers half a day each to get a report on stolen guns in the city?

Or is is that or is our data still that cumbersome to get?

No, we should be able to get that.

Um again, new uh new personnel working on it, refined system.

Um, so I think we'll be much more efficient than that.

Okay, that's really helpful.

And I may ask you for that report because I heard that there's kind of an uptick of stolen guns coming out of vehicles here recently.

So thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

And I just want to uh welcome uh Jordan, the Central Police Advisory Board.

Um, Jordan, I wonder if you could tell us just briefly a little bit about your background.

You've only been on the board for maybe maybe a meeting.

Uh so two, and then I missed one.

Okay, so we're not gonna have uh uh expect a lot of uh uh detailed analysis from you, but you might have some ideas uh where you'd think we could be helpful, and we might have some other questions for you.

So I'm happy to help.

Uh my name is Jordan Weber.

I have my master's of psychology from Montana State University Billings, uh, and just shy of 10 years experience in various uh data professional roles working for nonprofits uh focused on addiction recovery and then uh five years with Billings Clinic and then a few years freelance on my own.

Um happy to my apologies.

Excuse me.

So uh I've heard a few ideas that that you guys have brought up about uh what data that you'd be tracking, metrics we'd be looking at.

And the and I'm actually working on some data suggestions and proposals to submit to you guys.

We're hoping to get that done in the next few months as a first draft, and then we can get the conversation could continue from there.

But the problems I'm seeing right now is a question of manpower and leverage.

Um, because some of the reports and some of the things that I've heard you guys want to want to see, and they're great things that you want to see.

Um they in themselves are enough to be at least one, if not two full-time positions for a year to get those things built.

So that's so that that's the first question is where where do we find the manpower to build these reports, consolidate this data?

And the next issue is that a lot of these questions that I'm hearing aren't just city questions.

These aren't things that are handled just by the police.

It's what our community partners are doing.

And I used to be basically the point person for the um for grant data with Billings Clinic, and any time an outside organization, it didn't matter who was supporting them, came to me and said, Hey, can you give us this data?

From a cover my butt perspective, my first response was show me the contract.

What have we agreed to show you?

So the Citizen Police Advisory Board doesn't have that leverage with any group.

So if we really want to start taking bytes out of the data questions, um, my recommendation right now, just to get this on your guys' plate, is figure out a handful of uh of this group who wants to be on a basically a subcommittee and then get those community partners engaged too and find somebody.

Um, and I'd be happy to facilitate this for you guys, um, who can help you navigate those questions of what are the metrics we want to know?

How um how do we does that data exist?

If so, how do we get that data?

If not, how do we generate that data?

Um, and then from there, if you have staff within the city and within the city who are able to leverage um a good reporting platform like Power BI.

I know Google has one, there's several out there.

Um definitely leverage them, or uh partner with a contractor who can build these things for you, because it's beyond the scope of CPAB to build these things right now.

Very good.

Can you identify more specifically who those top partners uh uh might be?

I'm assuming uh county attorney's office is top of the list and the sheriff's office is top of the list, but any others.

As I said, I'm as you pointed out, I'm still pretty young in this group.

Uh but the attorneys, um, city attorneys, um the um sorry, it's it's been a long weekend uh with illness in the house, so my brain's not firing as well as I'd like it.

Um the uh mayor cole, if I may, as the chair of the citizen police advisory board, I'd love to help out with uh some of the plans we've been making around that area.

Uh sure.

It uh I'll just come back to Jordan.

Anything further before we ask uh Kerry to comment?

Uh not right offhand.

Okay, Kerry, we'll get back to you.

Uh appreciate your presence.

We just had another question for uh Jordan.

Counselor on Jordan.

Uh thank you for serving on this committee and welcome to it.

Um the good news is the infrastructure for what you're talking about already exists.

So Yellowstone County has a criminal justice coordinating committee, which the county commissioners have recently formalized.

They've passed a resolution, it includes every criminal justice stakeholder in the county, um, including federal and state stakeholders.

Uh it has eight committees, one of which is a data and technology committee.

Cool.

So I think my question then to you and to the chief, if he has an opinion is how do we integrate these two?

Make sure there isn't duplication.

If the chief wants a sounding board that is just for BPD, that's fine.

Um, but I don't want us to run things in parallel because everybody's resource in the system is very, very tapped.

So um you don't necessarily have to answer that, but I sure would like us to consider partnering in existing systems that exist rather than creating new ones.

Um, because I do think this data and technology issue, when we look at the county's jail analysis, the efficiency of how we move things through the system, whether it's deploying policing resources, tracking cases, um, dealing with turnover in any of our detention facilities, the data issue is fundamental, and we need much more integration.

So not a question that you have to answer, but an insurance that that infrastructure does exist, and let's brainstorm how we can better connect to it.

I I'm actually very happy to hear that.

Uh, that makes me very excited.

Um it tells me that we're really trying to look, at least at the county level, um, trying to look more towards the future and how to leverage technology to better outcomes across the board.

Um, I'd say, you know, definitely maintain those conversations, but this does extend beyond our standard governmental agencies.

Uh the local nonprofits who are involved in housing the homeless who are um, you know, um helping with the uh diverting individuals who are helping with victims of domestic violence, like they are outside of that scope, which says you have to provide this information necessarily right of hand.

Thank you for saying that, because while the membership of the um council itself is limited to the criminal justice partners, the committees are not.

So um, I think a great thing for the advisory board to think about is who those right people are to have at the table.

So again, that we're looking systemically and not just at our piece of the pie.

So basically, you are the we're actively working on the things I was recommending to start with.

We have achieved your recommendation already, is what I've been happy to tell you.

Excellent.

Okay, very good.

Um, thank you, Jordan.

Appreciate it and appreciate your service.

Look forward to seeing more there.

Um, I was gonna uh give the chairperson of the uh committee an opportunity, Carrie Boiter to comment.

Councilmember Rupsis, did you have anything before we do that that you that'd be great?

Carrie, we're we have somebody ready to make a motion, but if you want to comment briefly, please feel free, and then I'll turn it over to Councilmember Rups.

Yes, absolutely.

Um, thank you, Mayor and Council.

Uh my name's Carrie Boiter.

I'm the chair of the Citizen Police Advisory Board.

As you know, we work in partnership with the Billings Police Department and the Chief to address those four goals that you've assigned to us.

Um, all of our terms do expire at the end of this year, including Jordan's.

Um, but we've really begun to work in synergy together to get some things done.

Um, as you heard the chief say, the last four months we're planning to dedicate to data collection and analysis, Councilmember Nice, as well as the workplace recruitment and retention.

Um, Jordan did put together a data plan that we are planning to look at and hopefully bring to you all.

Um, as well as the other thing we're working on is the safety campaign.

Um, so we want to be able to uh to council member Rupsis' point earlier in the meeting.

We would like to be able to apply for some funding from that allocation to help with the community outreach that we weren't able to do once the PIO left.

Um so we we don't quite have the budget piece of that together yet, but we do have some deliverables and ideas.

Um, and we hope to bring that to you forward as well before the end of this term.

Um as far as the meetings, uh, we planned that when there's seven new members who join at the beginning of the year, if you renew this resolution, those members would be able to determine their own meeting schedule.

Um I think that that answers all of the questions that you had uh that that I could answer.

So, but I'm happy to answer anything else you may have.

Very good.

Thank you for your service and your efforts.

Uh uh, we'll look forward to further reports, assuming if this passes this evening.

Counselor Ripsis?

Thank you, Mayor.

We have to go ahead and make the motion.

I move to approve a resolution renewing the citizens police advisory board for four years through December 31st, 2029, as recommended by staff.

Uh Councilmember Rogers, in the case you'd like to make the second.

Um either of you like to further speak to your motion.

No and no.

Uh council, any other discussion?

Councilmember Neys.

Yeah, Mayor, I I I will support this, but I I really I'm hesitant to because um it's been there for four years, and I just really haven't seen a whole lot of results out of it.

Uh, I I'd I would prefer to only go another two years to see.

It sounds to me like to finally ramp it up some stuff if they had if they were actually to be successful in the next couple of years, then to continue it on.

But I don't think there's appetite to change that.

So I will support this, but I encourage the council members over who will continue on here to really hold this committee accountable.

I think they they can do some great things for the city and the police department, but um in our community.

But I I think it's the first four years is it's it's all we heard was excuses of how they ran into trouble getting started.

So maybe they finally get started, Jordan.

I'm excited to hear you have you on there.

Hope you don't leave, because I think you've got some good ideas and maybe can move some of those things that I'm looking forward to through this committee to come forward.

So thank you.

Very good.

Any further discussion on the motion?

Okay, we'll proceed to a vote.

Motion is for approval item 10.

In favor of the motion, please say aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Uh councilmember Rashbladder votes in negative.

All other council members vote in favor.

Uh motion passes.

Um that concludes item number 10.

Thank you very much.

And again, thank you, everybody uh on the uh uh commission who's been with us this evening.

Thank you for your service.

And uh stay tuned for the next four years.

Um we'll move then to public comment on non-agenda items.

If anybody's still with us who would like to comment on something that was not on our agenda tonight, this is your opportunity.

Is there any public comment on non-agenda items?

Any public comment on non-agenda items?

So you know the routine, please come forward and just ask that you uh tell us your name.

Keep your comments to three minutes.

And speaking of that uh microphone, hopefully that's working.

I know it wasn't last let's give it a try.

Yeah, sounds great.

My name is Paul Clark, Ward 1.

Councilman, Mayor.

I would like to find out.

Did we get any response from Governor Giofortia about the swamp that's at the underpass?

Do we know anything?

If not, we have a lot of people that do a lot of septic tanks that gladly would fill that up with a lot of of that disdained water.

Perhaps drop it up at a federal building or or the state capitol and let them deal with that.

Uh mosquito ridden problem.

Another thing is what are we doing about the sixth street underpass itself?

When it does rain, even a half an inch of rain or less seems to flood up.

We just spent four and a half million dollars for this construction.

Is it doing any good?

I don't think so.

There's still water there.

Uh the other thing is what do we know about the Yellowstone Valley uh animal shelter?

Are we still letting the police department, the state, the feds use an incinerator built for animals to be incinerated, not dangerous drugs that emit fumes into the city that uh is right in the middle of the city?

Over a hundred thousand people could be affected by some noxious gas.

That would be number two that my comments are about.

A number three, uh, listening to the problem with the energy lab and about how they were uh some sort of code that'll has to have a paved parking lot when you can go three blocks over to the west, and there's just a sugar factory, and they have a 200 people parking lot that is dirt gravel.

So why are you making a company that is barely 50 people at most compared to the sugar factory that has well over 200 people and they are parking their vehicles in a dirt lot?

Those are the three that I got.

Um another thing is let's not forget about Charles Kirk and his religious beliefs and how he was prosecuted for public uh for the first amendment.

I don't think the people that argued with him realize what they had until now it's gone.

So don't let uh this like a public forum for me or anyone else that would like to come up and address.

But again, this is more about learning how to deal with civic duties.

And I, for one, am learning how to deal with civic duties.

So I'd like to uh that'd be the number three.

You guys, it's political season.

I see there's a couple people up here running for mayor and other council jobs.

Um Mr.

Ed, I know it's not gonna run.

There's a debate coming up.

Maybe we can make note of let's get some people to come up and again, let's do our civic duty and try to get people to come up and ask questions and listen to the debate.

That's all I have.

God bless.

Yeah, that was good.

Good timing.

Thank you very much.

We'll get um I don't have any information for you about the Sixth Avenue Interpass.

We'll get back to you if we can uh if we do.

Any other public comment on non-agenda items?

Any other comment on non-agenda items?

No one's coming forward, close that uh period, move on to our last items, which are council initiatives.

Um I think I'll just turn over to Council Member Repsis.

Um Thank you, Mayor.

Uh and and just by way of introduction, normally we'd have Denise read them, but I'll just say the first item up was your aggressive driving and excessive vehicular noise reduction item.

So counsel.

Thank you, Mayor.

Council, I apologize for uh sticking these at the end of what has turned out to be a pretty long agenda.

But since we're it's only 745, we've got a couple hours left, right?

Um I I would love to be out of here by 745 if we can make this quick.

Um hopefully these are two non-controversial items.

The first one, aggressive uh driving and excessive vehicular noise uh reduction.

Hopefully, you all got my email this afternoon.

The the email, the the memo that was attached to uh the agenda this week was was a working copy that wasn't actually uh what I distributed a couple weeks ago when I introduced introduced the initiative at the uh work session.

Um really just looking to set up here some time at a work session to talk about aggressive driving, vehicular noise reduction.

What can we do?

Understanding that law enforcement will always be a component of this.

What else can we do?

What can we do from an environmental factor, from a technology factor, from a legislative factor uh to help move this uh move the needle on this problem in our community?

So we've all heard from our constituents in public comment here and and outside of these meetings that this is a problem, we need to address it.

And and honestly, I don't have a set set of solutions.

Uh I think the only uh wrong answer is we can't do anything about it.

Um, so hopefully uh with that, I would uh move that we would uh approve my initiative for aggressive driving and excessive vehicular noise reduction uh to set up time on a work session to to talk about this.

Uh second by council member Owen.

Um discussion on the on the motion.

Is there any discussion on the motion?

Before we proceed to a vote.

See no little yellow hands.

So uh council member.

Yeah, this is gonna be citywide because I know Main Street, I hear Main Street all night long on the weekend.

So there's lots of places around our city.

It's doing that.

So thank you.

Okay.

Anything further?

Okay, the motion was written before you got a copy um uh distributed before.

Uh if in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

Next one.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, my other uh uh initiative um is simply to codify the um HB 231 levy adjustments.

Uh as we discussed a couple weeks ago when we we passed the um FY26 final budget.

Um, we had 34.71 mills that were uh had been budgeted for you know general fund and public safety and met transit and library.

Um but we had a lot of discussion on that and ended up not um uh with a lot of that discussion talking about well, in future years we could have some flexibility in how those are allocated.

Uh and I think it wasn't anybody's intention to set up this kind of slush fund that uh could just be used willy-nilly by future councils uh uh you know, assess all 34.71 for met transit or for public safety or for parks or for whatever.

Um I think everybody uh is aligned that um those um uh those mills should be uh uh basically uh proportional to what voters have already passed um and to stick with the intention of the voters and also while also complying with state statute as much as possible.

So uh what I've proposed here is uh an ordinance that would go in so it couldn't just be overridden by next year's budget resolution.

If if future councils want to change uh city code, it's totally possible.

It just takes a bit more of a hurdle than just passing another budget resolution.

So uh with that, I'd be happy to take any questions, but I'd ask uh that we move uh staff to ask staff to uh to draft, modify, update uh the proposed language and bring it back to us for approval.

Uh is the motion clear, and if so, is there a second?

Uh second, councilmember Gullick.

Um any further discussion.

You've addressed it, uh Councilmember um Boyad, Councilmember uh Owen.

And I should just ask Council Member Gullick, you had the second.

If there's anything you want to comment on before we hand it over to us, okay, Councilor Boy, Casper Rowan.

So my my one thought is uh bring forth an ordinance.

Could we could we say an ordinance and or resolution based on discussion later on down the road, depending on which one ends up to be the better one.

Um I've talked to the city attorney, and um city attorney thought perhaps a resolution would be a better solution to an ordinance.

Just a just a question.

Um Thank you.

Happy to address that.

Um I thought with it being an ordinance is that uh if we were to pass a resolution saying this, then it could be simply overridden by next year's budget resolution that just allocated the the funds differently.

Uh whereas an ordinance would have to go through a process of uh reverting or changing that ordinance in order to uh do the budget differently.

So that's why I I don't think a resolution is uh sufficient to kind of lock that in.

Um, but you know, I'd be happy to take uh Gina's thought on that.

Um it seems to me that any kind of resolution we might pass might be easily uh overwritten with a single vote.

Um you're asking uh uh Gina to comment.

Certainly if she'd like to win.

Okay, thank you, Councilmember Rexis.

Mayor, mayor and council.

I simply uh advise that it seemed to me that this was more of a policy statement, which uh seems to be more appropriately handled through a resolution.

Um but it certainly could be codified if that's council's wish.

Okay.

Um council member Owen.

Thank you, Mr.

Oh, I apply and then I apologize, and then Councilmember Shaw.

So go ahead.

Okay, thank you.

Um no surprise I'm gonna oppose this.

And I just I fundamentally disagree with the categorizations here.

There's a couple of key points that really bother me.

First of all, I think um I don't know where we'll end up on the final language, but the whereas clauses here, couching any part of this as the will of the voters is to me nonsense.

Um no voter in that I know of asked for this provision in SB 231.

Uh almost every single elected member of the legislature from Yellowstone County opposed this.

So the people those of us on city council who've had concerns about this, the legislators who unanimously opposed it, characterizing any piece of this bill as the will of the voters in Yellowstone County, I think is disingenuous.

Secondly, I think that the law, I think we can all agree that the language uh with respect to our charter cap is very poorly drafted.

It was drafted very quickly.

It is open to widespread interpretation.

I think we have an obligation as council members to interpret that where there is discretion in the way most beneficial to the taxpayers of this community.

And that means allowing us to comply with the law appropriately, which says raise revenues, and we did, and then allocating in a way that actually follows the voters' priorities that we understand on an annual basis.

Right now, we are taking these dollars and interpreting their distribution in the way most likely, in my opinion, to lead us down the path of a tax increase.

Because while we don't, if we sort these out, we don't have to levy them every year, but we certainly could not put them elsewhere, which would put us in the weird pickle of potentially not levying transit or not levying library mills, but then having to go to the public and ask for public safety dollars.

When in fact, we could have just simply had what is functionally a second general fund, not a slush fund, but a we are directed to raise these revenues.

We allocate revenues in the general fund every year in the budget without it being a slush fund.

And here we are taking away the discretion and interpreting this bill in the most narrow, most disadvantageous way to the taxpayer.

And I think that's wrong.

Second, thirdly, we have we have this unknown question of what happens with transit.

And certainly once something is in ordinance, it could be amended, it could be repealed, as Genie has correctly advised.

But we will have given it a color of money that then starts to look disingenuous when we pass an ordinance and come back and say, just kidding.

If we're uncertain about the future, and I think right now we are, we don't know what will happen with transit if it will go with aviation or stay in the city.

We don't know what will happen during the interim section.

And God willing, we will get rid of this particular provision and come up with something much more reasonable in the 2027 legislature.

This doesn't belong in the ordinance.

We can we addressed it competently, clearly and transparently in the budget this year.

We can address it competently, clearly and transparent in the budget last year, next year, without laying the foundation of a future mill levy request.

So respectfully, uh we hear a lot about how ordinance about how initiatives take up a lot of staff time.

I think this is one that where the juice is not worth the squeeze.

What we accomplish here is not more important than what we do in annual budget resolutions.

We can resolve this.

We should maintain maximum capacity and uncertain times to allocate revenues appropriately without asking taxpayers for additional property tax increases.

So I will oppose this, respect the work and the thought you put into it, but this is a hard no for me.

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw.

Thank you.

Um, you know, I could make a case for this or against it.

Um, I think I I can clearly see benefits and drawbacks on either side.

So um related just specifically to the discussion tonight, because I don't want to get too deep into the merits.

Is this being proposed to be put on as on a work session where we will then have a conversation about resolution ordinance, or is this being proposed to come back to us on a business session where we're voting it up or down?

Uh council Rupsis.

Uh thank you.

Uh so specifically, I had thought this was going to be entirely uh uh non-controversial.

I did not expect uh council member Owen to uh make a passion to plea for her for her slush fund.

So um I I had thought that council or staff would just bring us back an ordinance to pass.

Um if we would like to have more discussion on it, I'm happy to do that.

Um, but I I didn't think it was uh necessarily uh required.

Um happy to take any kind of feedback.

I understand staff would want to, you know, possibly tweak some of the language, that kind of stuff.

Um, you know, if there's a strong feeling that this should be a resolution that should just be overridden by a single vote, then uh happy to consider that as well.

But um, my thought it was it was this was going to be a very non-controversial uh topic tonight.

So council roops was just to try to answer uh council member Shaw's question.

Yeah, I thought it could come right back to us as uh a not a consent agenda item, but a a uh business come back on a business session.

So council member Shaw, uh that was not uh council Rips' intent, but he's giving it to the staff, so I guess he's not opposed to it either.

But and he just agreed with with his lack of opposition to it coming to a work session.

So to be determined, I guess.

We should be clear, yeah, on what we're voting on exactly.

Um, because I I do I do have some questions about it, and again, I don't want to get deep into the merits.

I could address everything council member Owen just said, but I think that's not the discussion we're trying to have right now.

So I just want to understand Tom, you gotta be clear.

Which which is it that is being proposed.

I had my motion was to bring it back to a business session.

Um that that was what my motion was to bring back an ordinance.

To coming back at a work session, absolutely.

I would feel a lot more comfortable with that.

Yes.

I hear, I hear, yes, initiatives take up a lot of time, but I think it's a little late in the day to be um jumping on that bandwagon.

Yeah, since we've already approved a ton of initiatives that have taken up and continue to take up a lot of time.

So I I would support it if it comes back at a work session.

I'd be I'd be happy to make that if if uh council member Ulick would be uh okay with that friendly amendment.

Um I had I did speak with uh city ministry or Kikolski about this.

He did not feel like it was going to take much of any staff time, um significant staff time.

So um I I share the concern about just loading staff up with additional initiatives.

Okay, we'll try to clarify that and then we'll turn over to Council Rasmuslighter.

Um what I was hearing is this uh process of a friendly amendment um uh that would allow or or direct that a draft ordinance come back at a for future consideration at a future uh work session.

And just so that we're clear, I am assuming Council Rupsis that the language of your motion is what you prepared in writing for us, which would then read.

So I'm looking at the written version of the initiative.

Um quote, I move to instruct staff to bring forth uh a and I'll would insert draft ordinance to be considered at a future work session that describes the adjustments required under HP 231 uh and ensures the relative allocation of those adjustments across various city funds remains consistent with voter intent, recognize that issue uh in future budget year.

So that's a proposed motion, Council Burber Gullick.

Was that consistent with your intent?

Okay, we'll we'll call that the motion.

And um, Council Rascheler.

Yeah, and I'll uh I will lead pure ignorance at eight o'clock.

Um I've had a conversation with councilwoman owen, and then I was not there at the budget adoption council meeting, so I didn't vote or participate in any of that conversation.

I had a conversation with Councilman Rupsis.

And candidly, I have not dug into this issue.

Um in my mind, this was clear that these things were going to go up and stay with those um those mills as they were adjusted up.

I guess that was my interpretation.

I have not done any work to to determine that otherwise.

I'll support a conversation at a work session to try to dig into this deeper and figure out where where the heck I actually land on that, because I have not done any particularly worthy homework to to have an opinion um tonight.

So I I'll I'll support it to have the conversation and try to get educated as to where I stand from that point.

Very good.

Uh any further discussion, Council Bernice?

Thank you, Mayor.

I guess uh I um I guess this comes down to some things I think I mean, we need to hash out at another meeting.

So I think I'm gonna support this going to a work session.

But Gene, I just wanted to uh ask you, uh, and you don't have to weigh in this tonight, but I mean, this is I mean, this ordinance is kind of pretty pretty much written.

Um is this something that is gonna take a lot of staff time if we decide maybe we want to change it or make a modification or change it to a resolution.

I mean, how much time is this really gonna take up from you and your staff to look at this?

And and and just to be open, I mean Thomas shared this with you before.

I threw a couple edits in here.

Um so I've looked at this myself um in the past, and I thought it looked pretty good, but council member owen brings up a couple of good points that I haven't hadn't considered, and that's why we come to council to talk about different ideas to hear other sides.

Councilmember Nees, um I'm not sure that I can give you an exact number of hours or an amount of time that this is going to um that this would take my office.

I realize that there's a draft here.

I think that there are there is definitely some wordsmithing that needs to happen.

So um, but I appreciate that there's a a pretty specific draft here to follow to that that gives me an idea of what you're looking for, what the initiative is intended for.

So that certainly expedites the process and but it it'll still it'll still take some time because there's the format, the drafting that you know it's not gonna be 15 minutes, but it it won't it shouldn't be like eight hours either.

Yeah, and maybe maybe we need to hold off and make any kind of edits so the council can actually talk about this topic before we even let the staff do any more work on it, just take as is and that I mean there's a couple of concerns I have that was brought up about you know what is the intent of what the state legislated.

The language is pretty uh unclear uh as to whether it's to be in categories or or general.

And so it those are the kind of things that I think uh we're gonna need to hear, you know, what is what is the best option.

I mean, if we do it in one year, just even if it's set a resolution saying we're gonna set spend it this way, and then uh two years later we have a resolution we're gonna spend it a different way.

I mean, if we do it uh in one year, just even if it's set a resolution saying we're gonna set spend it this way, and then uh two years later we have a resolution we're gonna spend it a different way, is that gonna cause you know issues down the road as far as how we're spending this money that state is going on?

So there's some legal issues that I think that would need to be addressed, and how it we're gonna do this if we're not doing it exactly.

Well, either one, either either resolution or ordinance.

Yeah, I mean, if we if we codify it in ordinance and then two years later we change it, is that going to cause some problems because it appears to have tied it to these original mills mills that were passed by the voters or even an ordinance that could suggest that it ties it to those now.

And I'm not so sure that's what the legislator intended because it's not clear in what their intent was, other than to make sure we raise the same amount of money as a city overall, 55 some million dollars.

Okay.

Um other uh discussion on the motion.

The restated motion is clear.

I'll just I will comment.

I'll personally support it because I support this result.

Um I uh uh agree that the voters uh they don't really care about the exact mill levies, the numbers, right?

But they did have in mind a certain relative allocation of resources between these different uh buckets, and I think we need to respect that.

But in the drafting of this, my request would be that we don't gild the livy lily, we just stick with the facts, we get to that result.

Uh we not say things about voter intent or whatever that are not uh uh defensible or relatively clear, but I do support the end result, but there may be devils in the details that require uh a lot of further discussion.

Um anything else before we have a vote.

Okay.

Uh if is the vote uh or I'm sorry, is the motion clear?

Does anybody need me to restate it?

No one is asking for a restatement.

So uh if in favor of the motion brought by council member Rupsick, seconded by Councilmember Gullich with the uh uh amendment to clarify that it would be brought forward at a uh work session at some point in the future.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Uh aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Nay.

Voting in opposition, council member zone, council member Rogers, all other council members, uh, I believe voting in favor.

So the motion passes.

That concludes the two uh initiatives.

And with that, we are adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.