City Council.

Please stand with me for the Pledge of Allegiance and remain standing for our invocation by Councilmember Boyette.

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag stands.

As we gather to conduct the business of this city, maybe we may we be guided by reason, empathy, and a commitment to justice.

Let our work today reflect our shared values, respect for each other, care for our neighbors, and stewardship of the community we serve.

Together, may we create a city that thrives through cooperation and understanding.

Thank you.

Tony, would you uh please call the roll?

Councilmember Shaw.

Uh excused.

Gullich.

Nice.

Present.

Owen here.

Rogers.

Here.

Kennedy.

Here.

Aspen Leiter.

Tidswell.

Boyette.

Rupsis.

Mayor Cole.

Here.

Council, your first item of business are the minutes from October 27th, 2025.

Councilmember Gullick pointed out a correction earlier where Northern Industrial Health should have been Northern Industrial Hygiene, and that change has already been incorporated in the minutes.

So is there a motion or further uh changes to the uh minutes?

Councilmember Gillick.

Uh I move to approve the uh minutes from uh our October 27, 2025 meeting.

Very good.

Is there a second?

Councilmember Rogers.

Uh any discussion.

Seeing none, if in favor of the motion to approve the minutes of October 27, uh please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay.

Uh motion uh passes unanimously.

Um that brings us then to uh uh council courtesies.

I've got several uh myself.

Uh one, I just want to comment that the reason Councilmember Kennedy or Councilmember uh uh Kendra Shaw is not with us uh this evening is she's actually um I believe in New York City uh um uh making arrangements for the publication of her new book.

Uh she's written a novel that has a major publisher called, and the book is called the uh pillager's guide uh to um the the pillager's guide to Arctic Pianos.

So stay tuned.

That's a little teaser.

We'll I'm sure we'll learn uh uh more in the future.

So congratulations uh to her.

Um also uh this is our first meeting since the election on Tuesday night, and I just want to uh acknowledge the fine uh job that uh all the candidates um did in meeting with the voters, getting out their respective messages to the public and uh all the time while maintaining a high standard in my opinion of fairness and positivity in the election process.

In my book, all the candidates deserve a lot of credit.

Uh campaigning is hard work, and it takes a lot of time, emotional energy, humility, and in some cases, uh thick skin.

Um, as our existing council members know, um uh who are up for election uh no better than anyone, uh campaigns require difficult juggling of other responsibilities and a lot of sacrifice, not just by the candidate, but also by their families, friends, and supporters.

So thank you, council members and other candidates for having the courage to put yourselves out there in the public and the public spirit to serve your fellow citizens.

You deserve a lot of credit for not just sitting back and um engaging on social media, but really getting into the arena and fighting for what you believe in.

So uh congratulations to you all.

Um also uh uh I want to remind everyone that tomorrow, uh November 11th is uh Veterans Day, and even though our city employees do not have the day off, it's important to remember the sacrifice and service of all of our veterans and their families that they've made uh for our country over the last 250 years.

Um more than 10 percent of Montanans are veterans or active duty military, a number that is roughly twice uh the national average.

And many of our city, county, state, and school district employees are also veterans, and every day they use the skills, discipline, and character that they developed in the armed forces to better serve our citizens.

Um but before we uh get to tomorrow, uh today is also a very special day in our nation's history.

And to tell us more about that, I'd like to uh hand the floor over to Councilmember uh TJ Rogers, who, in addition to being an active duty military mother, uh formerly served for many years as a volunteer with Billings Young Marines.

So, Councilmember Rogers.

Thank you.

Today we celebrate a really big deal in American history, the 250th birthday of the United States Marine Corps.

I want to take a moment to recognize all Marines, past and present, for their courage, their discipline, and their devotion to our country.

The Marine Corps has a proud legacy of service and sacrifice that continues to inspire us.

I'm especially grateful for the Marines from our own community, including my son, who is currently deployed for the honor and commitment they bring to everything they do, as well as the fact that all the other branches of the service need heroes.

Thank you.

Very good.

Thank you very much, and thank you for your son's service and yours in supporting the young Marines.

Um, Councilmember Kennedy, you also uh had a curse able.

Thank you, Mayor.

Tomorrow is Veterans Day, November 11th.

And Friends of Yellowstone National Cemetery and the American Legion Post number four are honoring veterans tomorrow.

So we invite you all, 10 a.m.

tomorrow at the American Legion Post for 15th in Broadwater.

Um for the ceremony at 10 o'clock, the ceremony begins.

We'll be honoring uh some veterans tomorrow.

Colonel uh James Mariska, um, Army, Sue Gillespie, Air Force, Doug Wood, uh, use Gene Serra detachment of the Marines, uh, Ken Callahan, Army, and we have some veteran supporters we'll be honoring tomorrow.

And then it will be uh Paul Songer, uh, rapid tire out of Laurel and Didi Baker, uh dog tag buddies.

And so at 10 a.m., we'll have uh the ceremony ringing of the bell at 11 with volley and taps, and then lunches served afterwards, hosted by the American Legion Post.

Thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

And speaking of heroes, uh uh Chief St.

John, I believe you have some uh words for us this evening.

Thank you, Mayor, Council, good evening.

Um certainly uh a tough act to follow with the uh impending Veterans Day and the honor uh on all of our veterans and the birthday of the Marine Corps.

Um I have several Marines uh in the police department.

I find myself having to speak slower to them, but um, they are still uh great employees.

Uh with your permission, Mayor, uh Chief Hoppel and I will try to uh to match the honor that uh our veterans are going to receive tomorrow.

Please.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh Officer Shane Schaefer, please join me at the podium.

Tonight may I have the distinct honor of recognizing Officer Shane Schaefer for his exceptional courage and commitment to public safety.

On July 27th, while responding to an unrelated call at Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks office on the east side of Lake Yelmow, Officer Schaefer and fellow police department and fire department personnel were alerted to swimmers in distress on the opposite side of the lake.

Without hesitation, Officer Schaefer and several others proceeded to the boat ramp area upon arrival.

They quickly assessed the situation and determined that immediate action was necessary.

Officer Schaefer and firefighters O'Brien and Welton removed their gear, grabbed rescue equipment, and entered Lake Elmo.

They swam a considerable distance to reach two struggling swimmers, a father and a daughter.

Together and along with two citizens that you'll meet later, they stabilized the victims, provided flotation support, and remained in the water for approximately 30 minutes to safely escort them back to shore.

Officer Schaefer's swift response and disregard for his own safety were instrumental in saving two lives.

His actions reflect the highest standards of professionalism and valor, bringing great credit to himself, the police department, and the city of Billings.

In recognition of his bravery, Officer Schaefer was previously awarded the Department's Medal of Valor.

He exemplifies the very best of our public servants, dedicated, selfless, and courageous.

And it is my privilege to introduce him to you tonight.

Your Honor, Officer Schaefer.

I would just like to take the time to thank the council and thank the department for this recognition and this great honor.

And really, it's when our citizens act to help each other.

That's when our community is at its best.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

With your permission, I would like to yield the podium to Chief Hoppel.

Very good.

Chief Hoppel.

Mayor and Council, good evening.

And thank you for giving me the opportunity to recognize a recent award recipients that we were awarded last month.

Something the fire department hasn't been very good at is recognizing our members in public, and I'd like to change that.

So as fire chief, I believe it's vital that we recognize these individuals and our team members tonight.

It's my privilege to introduce my members and fellow citizens who have exhibited exemplified service, uncommon courage, and quiet professionalism to keep our community safe day and night.

A special thank you to Assistant Chief Training Training Chief Chief Chris Fowler, who is in attendance tonight, our awards committee, IAFF Local 521, as well as those who took the time to nominate today's honorees by telling their story.

Tonight's recognitions tell story of quick decisions made in seconds, of teamwork under pressure, of training that becomes instinct, and of compassion that lasts long after the sirens fade.

Some of those stories belong to our firefighters.

Some belong to the citizens who, without hesitation, step toward danger to help a fellow citizen.

Every one of them reflects the best of who we are as a community.

Our first award is the Citizen Heroism Award and Life Saving Medal.

It's presented to individuals who take action under duress or hazardous conditions to perform a remarkable feat or deed.

This award may be awarded to individuals who themselves, as or as a member of the community, perform life-saving measures, which result in a life saved.

Miss Sadie DeBusque is unable to join us tonight as one of our citizens, but in attendance we have Miss Haley McPherson.

Please join me at the podium.

On July 27, 2025, at Lake Elmo, a 10-year-old girl fell off her flotation device.

As the child attempted to swim back to the her flotation device, strong winds made the task extremely difficult.

The child began going underwater for increasingly longer periods of time.

Citizens Sadie Debusque and Haley McPherson, Hallie McPherson were paddle boarding on the lake and witnessed the incident.

They immediately recognized the seriousness of the situation, and without hesitation, Sadie and Haley, Hallley paddled to the scene.

I'm sorry, I'm used to Hallelujah's her real name, but it's Hallie.

Sadie managed to grasp the child before she went under again, lifting her onto the paddle board and placing her own life jacket on the girl.

Sadie proceeded to the Billings Fire Department rescue swimmer who took the child the rest of the way to shore.

The child was in and out of consciousness before expeditiously transported to the hospital where she made a full recovery.

While Sadie was tending the juvenile victim, Hallie raced to the aid of the child's father and uncle, who were nearby and also in danger of becoming victims as they fought the wind and water trying to reach the child.

Hallie placed her life jacket on one of the men and managed to get both men onto her paddle board.

She then entered the water, towing the paddle board to shore as she swam.

What Ms.

DeBusque and what Ms.

McPherson did on that day likely saved multiple lives.

They risked their own lives for strangers, not seeking recognition or attention, but simply doing the right thing.

They are the embodiment of what it means to be a good Samaritan.

The Billings Fire Department is proud to have presented Sadie Dubusque and Halle McPherson with the Citizen Heroism Life Saving Award.

Please join me in a round of applause.

On the night of June 21st, 2024, Engine 5 and Squad 2 were dispatched to an apartment on Phyllis Lane for a patient in labor.

Firefighter paramedic Jacob Ellis and Firefighter Paramedic Levi Vandersloot assessed the patient and quickly began rendering care, at which time it became apparent that there was a high probability of a precipitous delivery of preterm twins.

Ellison Vander Sloot continued providing care with AMR en route to the hospital.

During transport, they assisted in the delivery of two premature infants, one of whom was BRECH.

After delivery, Ellis and Vandersloot provided respiratory and temperature support for the infants.

Firefighter paramedic Ellis and Firefighter Paramedic Vandersleut's actions likely saved the lives of two infants and their mother.

Their demonstration of skill and bravery and service embodies the values of the Billings Fire Department.

For that reason, the Billings Fire Department has recognized Firefighter Paramedic Jacob Ellis and Firefighter Paramedic Levi Vandersloot with a life-saving medal.

Please join me in a round of applause for Firefighter Ellis.

Give him the mic, but he has his medal with him.

This is an award that we give out, like I said, but uh if you'd like to say a word, you can.

All right, for next ward recognition, firefighter Latendra.

Please join me at the podium.

On December 6, 2024, Engine 5 was dispatched for a male patient who had been run over by a semi-truck.

The patient was suffering multiple serious injuries.

Firefighter paramedic Corey Latendra quickly began providing life-saving care along with his crew.

The need for rapid transport to the hospital was immediately recognized, and firefighter paramedic Latendra continued his care, assisting AMR en route to the hospital.

During transport, firefighter paramedic latendra recognized the signs and symptoms of attention pneumothorax, prompting him to successfully perform a needle decompression of both lungs.

One week later, the patient was awake and speaking to family members.

Again, please join me in a round of applause.

I'm going to ask him to remain at the podium here for our next reward.

Uh, along with have Engineer Matt Strain please join me at the podium.

Uh Captain Matt Meeker is unable to join us here tonight.

This award is the Medal of Valor, awarded to a member of the department on or off duty, who intelligently, consciously of danger and great risk of imminent personal harm or hazard distinguishes himself or herself by the performance of an act of gallantry and above the call of normal duty.

On New Year's Eve 2024, Engine 2 was the first arriving engine company to a structure fire on Phillip Street.

Upon arrival, they found a female victim outside with another victim still inside the burning trailer.

As the crew went to work, they encountered heavy smoke and fire.

Engineer Matt Strain quickly got water flowing, allowing Captain Matt Meeker and firefighter paramedic Corey Latendra to knock down enough fire to make entrance into the structure.

Near the doorway, the crew encountered the second female victim laying on the ground.

They rapidly extra extricated the victim from the structure just as the fire was beginning to flash over, saving her life.

Before the arrival of any other additional units, engine two had all the victims out of the fire building and receiving aid.

The actions of the crew of Engine 2 on December 31st, 2024 exemplify the highest values of the fire service.

For bravery above, beyond and above the call of duty, the Billings Fire Department has recognized Captain Matt Meeker, Engineer Matt Strain, and Firefighter Cora Lechendra with the Medal of Valor.

Please join me in another round of applause.

Again, thank you.

It's been an honor to recognize our members and all of the individuals tonight that performed these actions.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief Hoppel.

Thank you, uh Chief St.

John.

And most of all, thank you for uh the great uh men and women in your cruise and what an uh amazing testament it is to our community, uh, but especially uh to your people.

So thank you very much.

Um with that, uh council.

Are there other uh proc or uh uh courtesies this evening?

Any other council courtesies this evening?

Okay, we will press ahead then to uh we have no proclamations, uh council reports.

Any uh reports from organizations that serve on behalf of the city.

Yeah, mayor and council, just a couple items.

One is just to be clear that this city is closed tomorrow on Veterans Day.

So I apologize for clarify for folks that it that is a recognized holiday um and offices are closed.

Uh second one is that there is no ex parte communication that came in uh this afternoon.

So we'll leave it at that.

Thank you, Mayor.

Good, thank you.

Uh, then we'll move to public comment on uh non-public hearing uh items.

So these are things that there will not be a public hearing on later.

Um specifically uh everything on our agenda, with the exception of item two, our budget amendments.

Uh, there will be public hearing on those budget amendments, item number two.

But if you'd like to comment on item one, which is our consent agenda and all of the sub items, item three, the TIFF application for the Billings Hardware Building, or the uh uh deputy mayor election.

You're welcome to do that and requested to do that now because there won't be an opportunity to do so later.

So if you'd like to comment on items one, three or four, please come to the podium.

We just asked that you tell us your name and uh keep your comments to roughly three minutes or something like that.

Uh good evening, Mayor Cole and Council members.

My name is Corey LaFever Thielen.

I live at 2621 Orchard Drive.

Um, I am here as one of the general partners for the old buildings hardware building development.

I am asking for you to vote yes for our downtown urban renewal TIFF grant tonight.

Um, I have spoken in the past about the importance of TIFF, but I'm here again tonight to give you a little background about my family and why this project is important to us and downtown.

Uh my family have been property owners and supporter of downtown buildings for 40 years.

My late dad, Neola Fever, purchased the old buildings hardware building in 2012.

Prior to that, my parents bought the Monte Carlo Casino in 1985, and we have been small business owners and champions of downtown ever since.

We successfully use a TIFF grant for our exterior facade restoration at the Monte in 2022.

Um, I believe that it is important for local small business owners to continue to invest in the communities they reside, which is what we plan to do.

We just need a little help to do that.

In this case, with the tax increment financing funds.

Our family cares about downtown and sees the need for more housing in the downtown area, and this project will help with that problem.

I have several customers and employees at the Monte who want to live downtown, but they are unable to due to lack of options, or they are unable to afford what units are available.

Our project is going to fill the need for the people who work downtown and want to be downtown.

And we have several customers who have expressed interest in moving into our building once it's complete.

The success of our project relies on us receiving the TIFF grant, and when complete, this building will activate a long vacant corner on Montana Avenue and make downtown even more of a vibrant place to live and visit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor Cole and Council members.

My name is Alison LaFever.

I'm a downtown resident.

I reside at 2310 First Avenue North.

Um, I'm also one of the general partners of the old buildings hardware redevelopment project, and I'm here to request your continued support of our TIFF financing grant.

Um, and I just want to piggyback on some of my sisters' comments about um why this why this project is important to our family and a little bit of how we got here today.

Um, as Corey stated, our father Neila Fever invested in several downtown properties over the years.

And in 2010, I suggested he look into buying the old buildings hardware building, then known as the Westwood Building, because it was being included in the newly designated Old Town Historic District and therefore eligible eligible for historic tax credit rehabilitation.

Back then we knew it had enormous potential to be to become an amazing loft department building.

At the time, I had experience working in adaptive reuse projects, both here with High Plains Architects and previously in Seattle, and was preparing to attend graduate school in New York City to pursue a master's degree in historic preservation.

The building was meant to be an investment in a future family real estate development venture that we would develop together.

It took him two years, endless patience and sharp negotiation, but he eventually managed to buy both the building and the land from the railroad in 2012.

Since then, we've been putting our hearts and souls into trying to make this project a reality.

And we faced numerous challenges and major setbacks, including the loss of our dad in 2015, financing issues, COVID, a roller coaster of interest rates, varying market trends and investor appetites, and most recently a government shutdown.

It's been stressful and discouraging it 10 times, but we're still here 15 years later, trying to make this project a reality because we sincerely believe in it and we believe it will be transformative and successful when it's finally complete.

A lot has been discussed about the importance of the historic tax credit and the pending approval from the National Park Service, and we can proudly say we've received unconditional approval on our first submission.

That approval was the result of years of work by us and our design team to honor the building's historic character while also meeting current building codes to transform the building into a modern usable structure.

It's not always easy to redevelop an existing building of this size, but the historic character and sense of place it possesses cannot be replicated.

After 13 years in New York City last year, I quit my job doing historic, historic facade restoration, move back to buildings.

One of the primary reasons was so that I could have more time to focus on the design and construction of this project.

It's important to me that it's done right, and we've analyzed every aspect of it to make sure it's a success both financially and architecturally.

We're getting close to the end, and I just want to ask for your continued help to get us over the finish line.

Thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

I'm uh the owner of company called Computers Unlimited, and we are located on Montana Avenue.

We've been down there for close to 45 years when it was not too much, and it's come a long long way since we've been down there.

I'm here to promote uh the tax increment financing uh for Randy Hafer and the uh redoing the uh old uh um uh billings hardware building on 28th and uh Montana Avenue.

Um what billings needs is a lot more downtown living.

Um I had the opportunity to work with Randy to put one together called Tracy Lofts, which is at um 20 uh 26th and uh Montana Avenue, and that came along real good.

It's it's located on the land between Montana Avenue and the railroad.

Um everybody's seems to think that locating next to a railroad is noisy, but it's really not trains come through down that tracks if they're quiet, they don't blow their whistles, and uh it's never been an issue.

But and uh the um building uh on that Randy is in the process of developing uh is at 28th Street.

Uh it's a long rectangular building, about three, four floors or so, and it'd be a great apartment building for uh for downtown billings.

So there's parking across the street in the garage over there, and there's all kinds of parking over here if you go on the other side of the tracks on uh the Minnesota Avenue side.

So it'd be a great deal.

Uh requesting uh TIF funding of 745,000, which is just a piece of the and total total financing, which is probably gonna be seven, eight, nine million dollars.

So it's gonna be just a real nice apartment.

And uh myself uh with computers unlimited, and uh I'm also a member of the uh the historic Montana Avenue Association, which we've put together for the last several years that uh focuses on safety.

We have our own security system, come through twice a day, once in the morning, once in the evening, check doors, uh remove anybody that's lingering around and uh telling them to go someplace else.

I always say Broadway's where it's at.

So uh I can uh just really want to promote the uh the development project that's gonna be just a great, great place for downtown, especially downtown living.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And Montana Avenue has come a long way, and there's no person who's more responsible for then that than uh then Mike.

So thank you very much.

Uh other public comments at on this uh at this time on items one, item three, or item four.

Is there any other public comment at this time?

Any other public comment?

Uh if you've got sir, if you've got a comment on item one, three, or four, this is your opportunity.

Do you have a comment on item one, three, or four?

No.

Okay.

So there will be an opportunity for items not on our agenda at the end of the meeting.

Um with that then, uh, we'll move to uh item one, our consent agenda.

Uh uh separations.

Um do we have any yes?

Uh I need to recuse myself from items J and K.

And Councilmember uh Boyet, I believe you wanted to recuse yourself from item L.

Is that correct?

Okay, are there other separations or recusals?

Councilmember Ripsis.

Mayor, I'd like to separate uh item one P related to the expansion of the South Billing stiff district.

Very good.

Item one Pether separations, Councilmember Neese.

Uh C G I and O.

Could you uh say those again?

Yes, C as in CAT, G is in George, G as in George, I and O and O.

Okay.

Um very good.

Then any other separations.

Uh Council Mr Boyet.

Well, after that, I move that we approve the items that are left.

Yeah.

Other than JKLP1P, C G I and O for approval.

Okay.

Uh motion is uh at Councilmember Tidswell in the case of the second.

Uh is there any discussion on the non-separated items?

Uh seeing none, if in favor of approval of the non-separated items, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Uh motion passes.

Uh first separated item then is item one C agreement with Downtown Buildings Partnership, Birdworks and South Billings Urban Renewal Association.

Councilmember Neese, was that your separation?

Yeah, I just separated to uh vote against it.

So someone else can make a motion to approve.

Very good.

Uh is there a motion or other discussion relating to item one C.

Uh Councilmember Gullick.

Uh I move to um the item number one C agreements with uh downtown Billings Partnership, Bird Works, and the South Billings Urban Renewal Association.

Very good.

Is there a second, Councilmember Ripsis?

Uh any discussion.

Seeing none, we'll proceed to vote.

If in favor of the motion for approval of item one C, uh please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Baiting voting in opposition, council member uh niece, all others in favor.

Uh motion passes.

Um next item was I believe item one G, final acquisition of 123 acres from the Morled family by the airport.

Council member uh niece, that was also yours.

Go ahead.

Yeah, I I um I I think this is uh we're paying 355,000 over appraisal, 31% over.

I I intend to either make a motion to um deny it or or just vote against it.

Um as I understand, I thought we we couldn't over uh overpay uh over an appraisal.

Even even the report that they reviewed the appraisal, said it was appraisal is accurate.

Um I'd like to have some explanation how we're getting 31% over.

I mean, I think I think it was 10% was the amount that we were allowed to do, but uh so I anyway.

I'll make a motion to only uh approve the uh 1,145 um uh is which is the appraisal amount of the property for purchasing.

Okay, uh motion uh well um I uh let me just uh uh correct this a little bit.

I believe that there's a buy sell, so they have made us an offer.

So um we can't accept an offer that doesn't exist.

In other words, they haven't made an offer at that price.

So uh is your motion to reject their proposal and make a new offer to them, which they may or may not uh Yeah.

So if you're saying if in other words to reject the proposal and do a counteroffer, yeah.

So I guess I would make the motion to reject their offer and propose a counteroffer at the appraise appraise uh of one point uh one 1 million one hundred and forty-five thousand is appraised.

Okay, and councilmember Kennedy indicates a second.

So uh you spoke to the your motion, Councilmember Neese.

Anything further before I uh ask Councilmember Kennedy, and then I'm sure uh staff will want to comment.

No, no, you're right.

I spoke to my motion.

I think that's clear.

Okay.

Councilmember Kennedy, anything before we ask staff to comment?

Yes, my my biggest concern is how come we're paying over the appraised value because we've always been able to whatever it was appraised at, do that or less, but we've never been able to go before.

So I guess I'm anxious to hear what staff has to say.

Uh very good.

I'll invite uh we have our airport director, that's the logical person, Chris.

Anything that before return it to Jeff.

No, I'm gonna have Jeff as who and his Tim is work who's worked directly on this.

So Jeff.

Very good.

Thank you.

Mayor and council members.

So this uh property acquisition was brought to the airport um as an offer of vacant land.

We went through the process of getting an appraised value.

The offer that was brought to us was over three million dollars.

We received the appraisal and we negotiated um several back and forths with us offering uh the below the appraised value, then the appraised value.

Um we finally came to an agreement for the acquisition of this property uh with the mortal family LLC at 1.5 million, which was about half of what their original offer to the airport was.

This uh property is very important to the airport in that it's at the end of the newly extended runway 725.

So it offers the uh protection of the airspace from future development at on this property.

It also provides an opportunity for future aeronautical development because approximately two-thirds of this property is located at the airport level, so adjacent to the runway taxiway system.

So through the negotiation process, which has lasted many months, we've came to an agreement um with our realtor, Caldwell Banker and the Morledge family at 1.5 million, and they refuse to go below that price for this offer.

So I am recommending for the protection of the airspace at the airport and for future aeronautical development at the airport that we acquire this property at the negotiated price of 1.5 million.

Jeff, would you would you mind commenting on Councilmember Neiss's uh uh question about whether that's legal?

Uh what's the discretion of this body to accept a price other than the appraised price?

Um that would have to be a question for our legal department or someone else that uh all I know is that we have negotiated this price.

The buy-sell agreement was approved by this city council at that price at a previous meeting.

And um, this is the final approval after um our final due diligence for the acquisition of this property.

The FAA will um reimburse us if they have discretionary funding available up to 95% of the appraised value.

So approximately um two-thirds of this cost will be eligible for reimbursement by the FA again if they have discretionary funding available.

Can I add a question there, Mayor and Council?

So but that difference between the 95% appraised value and the purchase price is not coming from the city's funding.

It's coming from it is coming from airport generated revenue.

So initially all of the funding will be from airport generated revenue, but we'll seek reimbursement based on FA's eligibility for reimbursement up to 95% of the appraised value.

Uh okay, can you uh offer any other issue or uh light to the legal issue and the council member Kennedy had a question?

So before we go to the legal issue, then I apologize for making this more conversational.

But what I would want to make sure the point here from me is not that it should necessarily matter that whether the money is coming from our federal FAA dollars or our local dollars as to the willingness to pay play more than the appraised value, but it is critically important that our citizens and you understand that it is airport aviation money that is funding it, not our general fund or not our local tax dollars locally.

So that doesn't answer the legal question, but I want to make that very clear to you and the public that it's not some other thing that we could be doing for local uh priorities.

So with that, I'm gonna have to turn it over to Gina relative to appraisals and our ability to pay over.

Thank you.

Uh mayor council, it's my understanding the question was simply is this legal?

And and I misinterpreted the question, please uh correct me, but it it most certainly is legal.

Um this is actually expressly provided in a resolution that council passed in 2021 in cases of significant need where purchase of property is critical to the success of a public improvement project or would fulfill another public purpose, the city administrator may bring to the city council an offer over the fair market value.

Uh city council will then determine if the amount over market value is appropriate, and if it is, council may accept the same in its discretion.

So you all certainly have the authority and discretion to make such determinations.

Okay, thank you very much, Councilmember Kenny.

So, Jeff.

If we do not acquire this property, then you're saying we could jeopardize the um the use of that uh um landing strip um at the airport.

We could jeopardize the use of it for certain purposes.

That is correct.

If development occurs at the upper level of the property, there is the potential for um land non-compatible land use that conflicts with the future use of that runway.

It also could result in noise complaints or other complaints about activity at the airport if residential development is allowed in that area as well.

So from uh the airport's perspective, it is in the airport's best interest and and the public's best interest that we acquire this property and make sure that no development occurs at the run the northern end of runway 725 that would limit the use of that runway.

Okay, thank you.

Um because this is Gina, because this is a uh critical issue at the airport, you're saying we have the discretion to go above the market value.

Absolutely, councilmember Kennedy.

Um in the case of uh most purchases, council has the authority and discretion to make such determinations to go over the appraisal.

Thank you.

And just one comment.

I think this is the real reason why we're looking at an airport authority, so the airport authority is able to um do business and be able to um make these decisions and move on instead of because the uh um when it was brought to my attention that it was the 335,000 above the market value.

We have never in all the years um that I've been around, um, we have never gone above the market value.

But as long as you're saying it's a very critical piece and it's for the safety and to be able to the function of the airport, I can understand that.

Thank you.

Very good.

Further discussion on the motion.

I I'm gonna comment uh personally just based on past history.

Um uh about 15 years ago, the city had the opportunity to acquire all the land to the west of the airport, which is very important because the airport's landlocked.

And uh they got an appraisal and um uh they used as comparables on the appraisal land that was way far west that was only residential by covenant and that could only be subdivided, no less than 10 or 20 acres.

So based on that appraisal, they offered the owners of this 40 or 60 acres um uh I think it was less than half a million dollars.

Uh the uh owners said, well, give us about a million, and uh the city said no, thank you.

I know that because I was uh representing the uh owners at the time.

And it was crazy because and as a result of that, the city lost the opportunity to acquire all the land that is now west of our airport, owned by the Blaines uh now and uh the the uh uh uh National Guard uh facility.

So um uh I think that will go down in history as one of the better or or one of the worst mistakes that the city has made.

Uh with that further discussion on um uh this council member Nice.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

Um uh you you mentioned that the airport, the runway would be hampered.

What type of development?

I mean, the city council is the one who actually approves the zoning and stuff like that.

Right now it's agricultural.

Is that correct?

That's correct, but the uh property adjacent to um on both sides of this property has been developed for residential development.

Right, and I think uh reverk ranches is not too far from that area, is that right?

Actually, Reburg Ranches uh considerably west of the okay, all right, not north.

So there is residential area not too far from here.

Is it is that right or not?

Am I correct on that?

Much further from the runways system.

And so what type of actual um limitations would happen to the airport?

That's they'd like to understand.

So the FA could, if the certain types of development occurred, the FA could refuse to provide instrument approaches to that runway, which would limit it to day VFR activity only.

Okay.

Um again, noise complaints could result in the air traffic control uh facility not being able to uh direct traffic to that end of the runway.

So and um as we continue to get encroachment around the airport, we will see more and more complaints about noise issues associated with airport activity.

So um those things have encouraged me to look at uh acquisition of as much property immediately adjacent to airport property as possible.

Okay, but this body would have the ability to zone and approve the type of developments that's going in there anyway to prevent any any some of that what you're talking about.

The limitations of the airport.

Do I understand that?

Is that correct?

They may be some, but obviously that there has been other development that's occurred around the airport that is not beneficial to probably in the county, yeah.

Okay, thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh Council Aspeler.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'd like to make a substitute motion.

Uh to approve agenda item one G as presented by staff.

Very good.

Uh second by council member Rogers.

Uh would either of you like to speak to your motion.

No and no.

Uh any further discussion now on the substitute motion.

Motion is for approval of this item.

Okay, we'll proceed to a vote.

The motion is for approval of item uh uh one G.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay, nay.

Uh councilmember knees voting in opposition, uh, all the council members voting in favor.

Um so uh motion passes, um, brings us to item one I uh donation for parks recreation department from Big City Economic Development and Petal United for bicycle pump track at Colson Park.

Council Bernice, that was yours.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

I really appreciate donations going to parks and Big Sky EDA getting involved in this as well and helping with the parks.

But again, I I think um when we look at something like this, we're looking at adding additional expense to the parks department, which we've we know that they don't have the ability for additional maintenance and and things like that.

So I separated this to vote uh to vote against it.

If someone else would like to make a motion to approve it, you're welcome to, but my intent is to vote it because I don't believe the parks department they've stated before they don't have the ability to maintain additional uh uh projects that come in as parks, and this is adding more maintenance costs that the city can't afford.

Very good.

Councilmember Ripsis.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, I think the staff memo says that the umited is going to be taking care of the maintenance of this.

So I would like to offer a motion to approve item one I.

Is there a second?

Councilmember Gullich.

Uh either of you like to speak to your motion.

No and no.

Uh any further discussion.

Okay, motion uh is to approve item one I.

If in favor of the motion, uh please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Nay.

Uh motion uh passes, councilmember Nice voting in opposition.

Um next item is item one J donation to the city.

And uh that's coming from me.

So councilmember Boy, I'm gonna turn this over to you.

So item one J, we have a motion.

Uh Councilmember Repsis.

Uh Deputy Mayor, I think K J N K, can we deal with those together?

Yes.

Okay.

And I offer a motion to approve items one J and one K.

There are a second.

Councilmember Aspen Leiter, anyone would like to talk about this?

I'd just like to say thank you, Bill.

Thank you, Ann.

That's good for you.

To donate to the city.

I really appreciate that.

Our pleasure.

Okay.

So we have a motion on that vote.

Everybody in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

Say nay.

Um goes ahead.

Now that's your turn, Bill.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh uh Councilmember uh or item one L.

Um councilmember uh Boyot will be recusing himself.

This is a donation uh to the police department from various donors, including uh Diane and Mike Boyet.

So um is there a motion on item one L.

Councilmember uh Gullick?

I move to approve item number one L donations to the police department from various donors.

And second by council member Kennedy.

Any discussion?

Uh only only to say um thank you very much, Councilmember Boyette and all the other people and organizations that are on that list.

Um that's how we get a lot of things done in our community.

So thank you very much.

Uh if no further discussion, if uh in favor of the motion uh to approve item one L.

Please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, nay passes unanimously.

Um item one.

I'm sorry, Councilmember Nish.

Yes, uh, it was passed.

Councilmember Boyet not voting.

Uh Councilmember Owen actually was absent for the last two votes.

Oh, I appreciate your pointing that out.

So uh uh both on the items JK um and then some item one L.

Uh Councilmember Owen uh did not participate.

And um I recuse myself on items JK and Councilmore Boyet recused himself on um uh item one L.

Thank you for that clarification.

Um item one oh uh resolution allocating $7,500 council contingency for an open house in New City Hall.

Councilmember Nees.

Thank you, Mayor.

I brought this out to separate because I think the uh $7,500 may be a little shy because one of the things that we've talked about in the operations budget is we're actually and it's been approved in the past to uh provide a um a a uh memorial for those who've died over in COVID uh and which then the city was able to get a lot of funding for this building.

And so that plaque estimates are anywhere from three to seven thousand, or I'm sorry, three to six thousand dollars.

And so I know the cost of what there's planning in spending is gonna be less than seventy five hundred.

So I propose we move this to a about a ten thousand dollar amount to uh help cover the cost to have that per plaque produced as well.

So I would make a motion to uh uh allocate uh 75 or uh ten thousand dollars for council contingency for an open house for the new city hall, including the memorial plaque the memorial covet plaque.

Very good.

Councilmember Rogers indicates a second.

Um Councilman is or Rogers.

Okay, uh so the motion is uh to change item one oh to ten thousand dollars so as to include uh some additional dollars for a brass plaque um in recognition of frankly where the uh the money for this building came from.

Councilmember or council member uh uh Chris and Councilmember Kennedy.

Mayor Cole, uh Mayor and Council.

Uh I apologize.

I don't know where the number comes from, the three to six thousand.

What I want to make sure for the folks who are putting the event together is to make sure I don't need to go find that official number and then say your budget to put the event on is X.

So I don't mind the additional 2500.

What I understood coming into the meeting is we think 7500 be plenty enough to put on uh the the reception.

What I don't know is if 2500, if that plaque turns out to be considerably more than that, I will be back in front of you to ask for whatever that difference is.

Uh thank you for that clarification, Chris.

Um I I'm confident there'll be uh private donations if we need to need to get there.

My understanding, Councilmember Nice, you can clarify is that the $10,000 is just a cap for those two things, the party and the plaque and um uh how they allocate it is staff's business, not we're not gonna get into that level of detail.

Is that a correct interpretation?

That's correct.

Okay, so the cap $10,000, how do you want to use it?

It's kind of up to you.

If if what's that?

And yeah, it's not gonna be a problem to raise uh additional dollars for that if needed.

Um so with that clarification, is there any uh further discussion?

Councilmember Kennedy.

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what are you doing for this.

Is it food?

Is it drink?

Is it what is it?

Yep.

It's combination of food, drinks, putting uh a nice reception for lack of better term for people to come in and tour uh this facility that that's been uh reconstructed for them.

So don't forget swag.

Say that again.

December 11th, sorry.

Say it again.

Swag giveaways.

Yes, there's um, but it's I guess uh I just have a tough time right now with so many other things going on and spending even 10,000 or 7500 on a party.

So I guess I'm gonna vote no, but uh um there's a lot of people struggling out there in the city.

Fair enough.

I don't know if it was in the memo.

If it wasn't, I apologize just to clarify, and it's not to push the responsibility one way or the other.

Operations committee recommended uh up to ten thousand dollars and working with the group of employees who are putting on the event.

We thought 7500 was plenty enough to do a nice job.

So that's why we put 7500 as the request.

Thank you.

Very good.

Uh any further discussion.

Okay.

Uh again, the motion is uh ten thousand dollars for uh those two combined uh um things.

Uh if in favor of the motion, uh please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Uh council members uh uh Kennedy and Aspenlighter uh uh voting nay.

All other council members uh voting in favor.

Um with that uh council or uh item uh one p councilmember Ripsis, that was yours.

Thank you, Mayor.

Nothing to say.

I've just uh sub ready to vote against it and stay uh consistent with my prior votes on the topic.

Thank you.

Very good.

Is there a motion or other discussion relating to item one P.

Councilmember Gullick?

I move to approve the second and final reading ordinance expanding the boundaries of the South Billings Boulevard Urban Renewable District and adopting a modified urban renewal plan.

Second councilmember Kennedy indicates so any further discussion uh on the motion.

Uh not by councilmember Gulleg, not uh not by Councilmember Kennedy.

Um other discussion on the motion.

Motion is for approval of item one P.

Okay.

If in favor of the motion, favor of one P, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Nay.

Uh voting in opposition were council members uh Rupsis and Councilmember Nice, I believe.

Um all other council members um uh in favor.

Uh motion passes.

Um that concludes then our consent agenda and brings us to our regular agenda.

Um Tony, would you please read item number two?

Item number two, public hearing and resolution approving and adopting FY2026 budget amendments.

Staff recommends approval.

Very good.

We will take a minute to make sure the technology is working, and then we'll turn it over to Andy and Sarah.

Sounds good.

Yeah, we do ask you to keep that microphone as close to your possible though.

Oh, council member presentation is not on Zoom.

Uh huh, thank you for pointing that out.

There we go.

Now you get hit.

We can see it uh it's small, but also the yeah, the you need smaller panels down the point.

There we go.

Great.

There you go.

Oh, well, that would help a lot.

Okay.

Um so this does make sure that we're complying with the MCA.

Um, but we are bringing five different budget amendments this evening.

The first one is for the East TIFF.

We are asking for a hundred thousand dollars.

This was planned in FY27, but because engineering is planning some projects, they would like to also do the sidewalk construction at the same time.

Um, the second one is going to be for our PMDs.

This one's specific to our Broadway PMD.

The um electrical panel that was attached to the building that was demolished off of second avenue.

Um needed moved and updated, and that cost us 63,690.

Um we also had some we completed a portion of the sidewalk that was left at Centennial in the dog park.

This used up some of the cash that was left in that fund to the tune of 28,900.

And then we have um two larger ones, landfill cell six.

Um, the planning for cell six had to be moved up a year, and this was discussed in the budget and finance committee.

Um mostly so that we can meet our timeline for the creation of cell six, and then the city hall debt fund.

We have received a portion of the historical tax credit payment, and this would allow us to pay the debt with that amount.

Um, so there are sufficient fund balances um for actually for all four or for four except for the parks maintenance district.

Um only East TIFF and Dog Park are listed here, but the landfill and the historic tax credit also have cash on hand.

Um there is, however, a shortfall that is anticipated in the PMD for Broadway because this was not an anticipated expense.

So this um parks will work on reducing some operations costs to the best of their ability in the next couple of years, but it will require an additional rate increase in future years.

So do you have any questions?

Very good.

Uh Councilmember Nees.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, when you mentioned the debt uh to be paid, is that paying off the debt or is just a portion of the debt?

It will only pay a portion of the debt, but it brings us much closer.

And how close?

How much will be left then?

Um I think there's something like five million after this payment, although we will have an additional payment, uh an additional historic tax credit is due once the elevator is complete.

Um I don't know the exact amount.

Okay.

Should should bring us closer to two to three million.

Great.

Thank you.

Uh two to three million remaining on the the debt.

Remaining on the uh uh debt.

Do you know how much we're expecting then in additional tax credit beyond this three million?

Um I don't I I think that that's about what one and a half, two million.

That may be the the last check.

The total will be approximately five and a half million dollars in tax credit in total tax credits for this project.

Roughly $5.5 million for this.

Although it was uh stressful and time consuming, uh it's five point five million dollars reasons why we did it.

Thank you, Councilmember Goulick and others who helped us through that process.

Very much so.

Um other questions uh for Sarah.

Any other questions uh on any of these items?

Okay, very good.

Uh Sarah, we uh we'll have uh this is a public hearing, so we'll open up the public hearing and and then come back to council.

Um if anybody would like to comment on item number two, the proposed uh five budget uh amendments.

This is your opportunity.

Uh please come forward and uh tell us your name, keep your comments to three minutes if you would.

Is there any public comment on item number two?

This is a public hearing.

Public hearing on item number two.

Is there any public comment on item number two before I close the public hearing?

No one is coming forward, no one's standing up.

So we'll close the public hearing.

Uh back to council.

Councilmember Boyette.

Thank you, Mayor.

Umducted a public hearing considered written and spoken testimony.

I move to approve the resolution approving and adopting a res uh resolution for the FY2026 budget amendments as recommended by staff.

Very good.

Is there a second?

Uh council member gullick.

Uh either of you like to speak to your motion.

No and no.

Uh any further discussion on the motion.

Motion is for approval of item number two.

Seeing none, we'll move to a vote.

Uh the motion again is for approval of item number two consistent with the staff recommendation.

If in favor of the motion, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Motion passes unanimously, and that concludes item number two.

Item number three.

Tony, would you please read item number three?

Tax increment financing assistance from the downtown urban renewal TIFF district for old billings hardware development venture LP for its missed mixed use project at 2802 Montana Avenue, up to 745,000.

Downtown Billings Partnership Board recommends approval.

Mayor Cole, while we're waiting for it come up.

Uh yes, Councilman.

I'm going to recuse myself from uh the discussion and and vote on this as my firm uh is the architect of this project.

Very good.

Thank you.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Uh good evening, uh, mayor and council.

Um I will start off and give you a brief presentation on this item.

And then as you already are aware, uh the LaFever family is here.

Um, and uh we also have um Memette Casey and Katie Schreiner from DBP if there's questions uh from them and also the the part of the consultant team for the project.

So um want to give you a quick follow-up on on where we are with this with this project.

So one of the uh directions, city council had reviewed this and um voted to um delay this item from September 8th, the meeting when we brought this forward to you for reconsideration uh due to some language that was in the original approval for this project back in 2022.

Um the um council voted to delay this to this evening's meeting to bring it back in terms of the status and condition of the what where the project was in the process.

And one of the things that the council also directed um the staff and and DBP specifically was to take the project back to the downtown billings partnership board to um review and then make a re a new recommendation back to the council as part of this process.

So the first thing is that the DBP board did uh do just that in that their September meeting, they reviewed this um project again, had discussion with the uh applicants and agents regarding it.

Uh the minutes are attached to your memo, and basically reaffirmed the same recommendation that was in that they had put in place um in terms of the dollar amounts from 2022, which is the award not to exceed 745,000.

Five reimbursements spread out over five years, starting with the year after the project when the project is complete.

Um, and then the one thing that's shorter than normal now is that the development, the developer signed development agreement within 60 days of council approval um instead of we have normally 180 days given the status of this, and that the developer is prepared to sign the development agreement now.

We're that that 60 days uh was put in place by the DBP at their meeting and was and what is the recommendation that you have this evening.

Some other follow-up from the meeting uh council's questions on September 8th was the project impact on the district in terms of the financial impact and timing and such.

So um the council, you you did express concern about the delay and that with this project and time and whether that was affecting other projects uh that might be delayed in the district from moving forward.

Um, in discussions since that meeting with DBP staff, we've uh they've confirmed that there were no known projects that were delayed during this time uh that since this project was approved, and um no projects were turned away because of lack, you know, a funding challenge.

The only reason a project is turned away is if it doesn't meet the criteria for a project in the downtown district per the urban renewal plan, the state law, the city TIFF policy, um, and those those elements.

Um the DBP, we also provided in the with this memo the current uh financial forecast for the downtown district, uh, which is uh what's compiled between city finance and the DBP uh staff.

And um, first of all, and this was brought up at September 8th, also.

This project has been in that budget in the past, but uh remains in the budget, and there is also funding available for other projects that could occur at the same time that this project has been budgeted in there.

So just to share some of that information that was brought up at the last uh at the last meeting.

Uh the project status, and and this is just a quick summary out of what's in the memo for you this evening is and and the LaFever uh family mentioned this uh in their comments earlier, but they have received full approval from the National Park Service for the historic tax credits for the project.

Um they are at 90% construction, uh, the construction documents, and they are now doing final pricing on that uh with uh their contractor.

They're working with First Interstate Bank uh regarding the the full financing package.

They've developed and have released a marketing package for the property that Coldwell Banker uh prepared and that's out now in the public for uh occupancy of the commercial portions of this property, and then they're preparing to submit their permits for the building division to um begin the review of the of the project, the remodeling uh activity that's gonna take place there.

In terms of project merits, um, just to capture a few of those items that are also covered in the memo and the LaFever um family also mentioned this during their comments.

Um, a couple of these items.

So this project answers some housing uh demand in downtown and then safety in terms of SEPTED as well as retail potential for the first floor, which is what's proposed uh for future retail activity.

Obviously, then with this being developed, uh redeveloped and activated, you have that corner of uh Montana Avenue that's been um vacant and actually has been a real challenge and a nuisance property for code enforcement for the city for quite a few years.

Uh this would activate the building, activate the corner, get activity there, um, help with both safety as well as just uh pedestrian and and uh activity within this area of downtown.

Uh, and then it continue, you know, it as before it complies with uh the code and the city policy and the the things that the criteria that we bring against these when we bring these projects uh forward.

Just really briefly by with the numbers, and this just basically breaks out the current assessed value.

This is we do this with projects um each time they're they're brought forward.

Current assessed value, estimated uh value based on after you know, project redevelopment, the property redevelopment, the tax calculation, and then that puts us to about an ROI of nine years to pay back the um amount of tax increment financing funds that would be allocated to this if you um if you move that forward.

And with that, I'd be happy to answer questions.

And as I said, we have both uh the property owners uh agents and the uh DBP staff here as well to help if there's something I can't answer.

Very good.

Thank you, Wyatt.

Uh Council Asplater and Council Bernice.

Yeah, thanks.

Um I'm I'm trying to find a way to get to yes here with this.

And you know, I get it.

Government shutdown for 41 days has created some some problems.

Uh nobody nobody expected that to go that long.

Um so I can I can empathize with that for the to some extent.

Well, have we ever in approval of these things?

I mean, we've set agreements and and we've set completion targets and things like that, I believe, in TIFF contracts.

Have we ever set a target that says, hey, you know, 25% of your construction budget has to be spent by a specific day or your TIFF allocation goes away.

Not completed by a specific day, but 25% of your construction budget has to be spent by a specific day.

Have we ever done anything like that?

Uh council member Aspenliger and Mayor and Council.

I am placed in an agreement like specifically like that.

No.

So follow up.

I mean, could we do something like that?

Sorry, say that could we do something like that?

Who do who could?

Oh, could we could.

Sorry, could um I guess not having uh like looked into it further.

I'm not sure um how that could work.

I mean, our development agreements are you know, we've set those up with the city and through legal to decide what the parameters are with those and what's required.

Um, so I mean we'd be doing something different in there and having to set, like you said, some target there for um completion of the project at some level.

So I don't know if if um city attorney has any comment there.

I guess I wouldn't say no.

I just I don't know, you know, it'd be something we could look into.

But I don't know if there's anything to thank you, Wyatt.

I I yeah, I mean, I'm not really sure how much I would have to add to that, but we can certainly negotiate different terms.

I don't see how that would be an issue.

Follow up, Mr.

Mayor.

Okay.

This is a comment, and then maybe it's a question for Mr.

Haifer.

Um my concern here is that at some point the project's got to start.

And generally, I I've got concerns that too often I think TIFF dollars are the first money in when they should be the last money in.

And they should be the dollars that push a project over the the finish line, not the the dollars first in the door used to try to negotiate and leverage the bank.

And so my question, I guess, for for Mr.

Hafer is if I uh if I made a motion to to support this, but it was contingent upon 25% of your construction budget, not including your land or your acquisition costs, but 25% of your construction budget was spent by what day trying to get you to start the project, like get the project going, spend the money, and then the completion date we can be flexible with, but actually get started with the project.

When would you say that that 25% of your construction budget could be spent?

Councilmember Aspen Leiter, that's a good question.

I can't say at this moment, I can say to your sort of broader question that if any of these issues that you're talking about had been part of the development agreement that we were presented in the first place, we would have been coming in front of council and telling you why we weren't finished or why we weren't somewhere along the way.

Because I I realize that you think apparently that we haven't been doing anything for five years, which is absolutely not true.

And but at this point, I get that it looks like that.

So we are at a point right now where we if the things you saw on the the board as well as the permit drawings were submitted today.

Uh, we're in that process of getting final numbers, getting permit things that the bank needs in order to be able to finish up the an agreement with us for the loan.

We already have a contract with the contractor.

So all of this should happen very quickly at this point, from this point.

When can we spend 25% of well?

I don't run the construction.

We're not supervising that.

Obviously, they want to get going, we want to get going.

I don't have a schedule from him yet because he doesn't hasn't gotten to a place where he can say, okay, I'm gonna be able to start on January one or whatever.

We will have that.

We can certainly come back and tell you what that is as soon as we get there.

Um also to your point about the TIFF money being last in, it's it is last in.

It doesn't get it's a reimbursable.

It doesn't get paid unless we've done the work.

But it's important that we have for our capital stack to present to lenders the approval of that because their loan ends up being dependent on that.

And if we don't have that, this well, we would this project, we wouldn't be able to stand here at all if we didn't have that as part of the capital stack.

It will not be paid.

The city's not at any risk for that this money somehow gonna go away or it's gonna just go into a pit and we don't get finished.

The project has to be finished before we receive reimbursement.

Uh follow up there and then council member Nees and Council Member Boy.

And just a final comment.

Like I have never said you're not doing anything.

And I have I I fully understand because we run TIFF projects too.

How the TIFF money is is paid upon completion of projects.

I get it.

But I also, because I do TIFF projects, I also understand how the financing on a lot of these TIFF districts actually a lot of these TIFF projects and TIFF applications work.

And they are set to go before a TIFF application comes.

You look at the vast majority of the entire South Side, and and you can tell me that those projects are different than downtown redevelopment projects.

And yes, that there are different challenges associated with both.

But fundamentally, I you and I will always disagree that you have to have a TIFF commitment before you can go build the rest of your your finance, your capital stack.

Fundamentally, I disagree with that because it's been done by others differently to the contrary.

And what I want is I want to see the private dollars actually getting spent.

And so we're not continuing to kick this can down the road.

I mean, if we said, yeah, give you an agreement and we and we set an arbitrary date for two years down the line for you to have completed the project.

Again, you don't know.

You don't know when you can complete, and you don't know when you're gonna get finished.

And and we're gonna we're gonna be in this spin cycle.

I don't want to be talking about this anymore either.

I mean, I wanted to be home 20 minutes ago.

I thought this was gonna be an hour meeting, and here we are 90 minutes in.

So I'm trying to find a way to get to yes.

And I'm trying to find a way to say, hey, if you can't get this moving and 25% of your capital spent by the next eight months, 10 months, whatever that date is, then this goes away and we're and we're done talking about it because we're we're always kicking the can down the road on this.

And and that's that's my concern.

So I'm I'm done with comments.

I would just like one one response that I'll make is that when we applied for this in 2022, at that point in time, we thought we were going to be able to move within six months from that date.

If you remember, that's when about the time that interest rates started going up and inflation started, everything changed.

So again, I if there was something in this process in the development agreement that we received that said if you're not at some point by such and such a date, you have to come check in.

We would have been happy to do that.

That was not asked of us.

It's pretty obvious that the the economic climate was a mess.

But but if you're not in it, you don't necessarily know what all that means.

And so I'm just saying that we'd be happy.

We would have been happy to do that.

And I apologize that we just didn't do it.

Um, but we are where we are at this point.

We've got everything lined up.

We expect to be under construction soon.

And I, but I, you know, as soon as I say a date, it's gonna be wrong.

So I don't have a date yet, but I can just tell you everything that you saw up there and everything that we said we could have done by this date because it was already in motion, has happened.

So we're on track.

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Uh Council Nees, Councilmember uh Beal um Boy, Councilmember Ripsis.

Yeah, and Council Mr Rowan.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Randy, while you're up there, I do have a question for you.

Thank you.

Um the um is Council Mayor Member An Spellander said, we've seen a lot of TIFF applications, and a lot of these have got going and and they have the funding or some kind of commitment from the bank uh and things like that.

I mean, this has been going on since like you mentioned, 2022.

Have you how many banks have you talked to and have any of them given you commitments or denied the project?

We had a commitment from First Interstate Bank at one point.

Okay.

And then circumstances changed and prices went up and all that, and we had to do it all over again.

Okay.

And so, because the letter that we got from that I think that was included in an email, it wasn't the packet, but it we really wasn't very committed.

It just says, hey, we're we're working on it.

And so that's a real little concerning for me that they there's not even a any kind of committal um of them moving forward on that.

So is there anything changed since we got the letter?

I think yesterday or today.

No, and I would just say though, that I was frankly a little bit surprised that they even did that.

Because frankly, it's not information that they're particularly interested in sharing.

But the fact of the matter is we have been working with them for several years.

We did have a commitment from them.

Circumstances changed, that commitment was no longer valid.

We had to start over again.

And so we're continuing to work with them.

They continue to be interested in the project.

They've had some questions.

We're working through those things.

One of the big ones really is getting final numbers, which we are in the process of doing right now.

Okay, thank you.

And I did have a question for Andy.

Uh is Andy uh Zeller still.

There is way in the back.

There he is.

Okay.

Andy, and in the memo, the um, let me pull up the document again here.

It was the um the cash forecast.

It looks to me like the cash forecast for available projects, even with the old buildings however on there, we get negative up to 1.1, 1.2 million dollars.

How's the city or the TIFF district going to cover that over those years where it's negative?

Everyone mayor and council, councilmember.

I apologize.

I have not uh familiar familiarized myself enough with that.

I'm gonna open it up here, but yeah, it is in here.

Yeah, I see it.

I don't know why it's not opening.

Um however, what I can say is in the case of the situation where cash does go negative, the all of the development agreements have the language that essentially say they get they get paid in a prioritized manner, and those that are not able to be paid get pushed until there is cash available.

Okay, so then they just won't get paid for 27, 29, 30, 31.

Potentially a few years.

Um we have been in that scenario at one point in time, and I have it open here now.

Uh we did have to renegotiate with Alberta Bear.

That was quite a few years ago.

Um, but we have been in that situation and have executed it.

With having this type of forecast, wouldn't this impact any kind of financial uh ability for them to even fund the project, knowing they're not gonna get paid for multiple years and and we'll ask the uh partnership representative to comment on the cap slow issue when uh Andy's done.

I'm sorry, Councilman, I interrupt you.

What was your question for Andy?

My question was wouldn't I mean if this forecast shows that that we're not gonna be making payments in in 28 through what is it, 30, 32?

So I get new glasses and they don't work like they expected them to.

Um then uh I mean, wouldn't that impact any kind of um projects viability?

I mean, because suddenly they're not gonna be able to, we're not paying them once they get finished.

And so I mean that that's gonna be especially if it's you know 500,000 on this one or roughly.

Um I mean, isn't that it a consideration or wouldn't that be a consideration of financial institutions and know they're not gonna get paid?

So I'm probably not qualified to answer that.

I mean that would be between them and their lender.

And then you can just say that and I'll move on.

I would uh want to say just I appreciate the build the downtown buildings association or the board looking at this again and approving it.

I did find the minutes in that where it was unanimous.

And so thank you for doing that and reviewing this project again.

And Council Bernice, I uh Andy said he really wasn't familiar with these numbers, so I think we're better off.

I saw some quizzical looks back in the back benches.

So can we ask uh uh Mamet or somebody else from the partnership who is more familiar with those cash flow numbers to comment on your question?

Yes, I would be fine.

Okay.

No, yeah.

Uh mayor and council, uh I was just gonna make the statement that uh if if there is um such a negative number, I'd love to have a copy of that forecast too, because the version I have has FY32 at the lowest cash flow of 1.4.

And that's the most recent one we worked on with the finance department.

So counselor needs sounds like there's just a fundamental uh uh disagreement on facts here.

Can you tell us what you're looking at?

In the memo too.

It's in the memo and you uh the cash it's the uh fit fiscal year 26 cash forecast as of 918 of 25.

Just pulled it up and I looked at the bottom and it started in 28, it goes negative through and and I'm sorry, what page of the staff memo and which paragraph?

Um it's uh it's online.

I pulled it up online, so I'm not sure if you've got it if it's in the hard copy in your pack.

So not in the narrative part of the staff, but an attachment.

Okay.

And um Yeah, I don't see it in the hard copy, so it may not have been included in our hard copy packet.

Uh the cash forecast.

There it is.

Downtown TIFF fiscal year 26 cash forecast is the title to the top of the document.

Uh as of uh oh nine, eighteen twenty five.

That's what we got.

Okay, so that's the the document that we're looking at.

So Chris, you want to comment?

Sure.

Mayor and council, uh the disadvantage we all have here, I'm not comfortable just kind of going off the fly.

You're correct.

What we gave you in the packet is dated uh 918 25.

Mamet's showing me something from earlier this week that indicates we don't get into a negative cash carryover situation.

Uh what I would would need to see to be more comfortable on my end would have been the cash flow sheets we've used the last projects that you've approved, and how does this project affect it?

I do believe in our projections in the past, we included this project because it was approved earlier.

So we're not as if this is a new project to the list.

Where did this uh spreadsheet come from?

I I can't answer that.

Because it's I mean, this is with the project.

I would imagine it was supplied to our staff as a part of the packet material.

I mean, this is the public record of what we have to rely on, and I'm sure the financial institutions gonna look at this and say, wait a minute, if we're if this is wrong, then we're probably given a bad picture of what the TIFF district viability is.

Well, just to clarify customer needs, you're looking then at that first line, the beginning cash balance.

The very bottom it says estimated available cash for estimated available cash for projects.

Very good.

Thank you.

It shows in fiscal year 29.

If I'm looking at the same sheet, right?

267,000 267080.

Yeah.

And then 228 starts goes goes up from there and then goes uh back to black in FY 33.

32.

Um, so what I'm gonna do here um is uh we're gonna move along with questions, but uh Andy's back there huddling with Mamet, and we're gonna ask them after we've had a little time and they've had a chance to look at that, come back and update us a little bit.

That's all the questions I had.

Thank you for calling out to your attention.

Uh we had council members uh council member uh boyet Rupsus and Owen.

Council member Boyet.

So, Randy, another question for you.

You can't run away now.

So this has been going on three years.

Could I could I say, okay, I want this started by I want a hole dug in the ground by June 1st of next year.

What can you live with if as far as a point?

We need to get this going instead of sitting here.

That's my question to you.

What can you live with?

What do you think is reasonable?

I know you have to guess, but we can't have this sit down forever.

Well, my expectation, how about that?

Because I can't guarantee anything.

Obviously, it's been an incredibly difficult project.

But I expect that in the first quarter of 2026, we will be under construction.

And I anticipate the construction period taking about 10 to 11 months.

Uh council member or uh Randy, uh, we had a request that you repeat that just because we had some problem hearing that and say it a little more loudly.

Okay.

Sorry.

Um my expectation is that we will be starting construction in quarter one, 2026, and that the construction time period will be 10 to 11 months.

Uh the end of what?

10 to 11 months.

10 to 11 months.

So depending on whichever month in the Q1 we get started.

With a lot of luck, we could be done by the end of 26.

It might be Q127.

Okay.

Council Boy.

So if if we the council said, Well, hey, we want you to start by the deadline.

If you're not started by the first day of quarter number two, we're done with it.

Is there anything you can live with that gives us some better uh holding that yes, it's gonna start rather than say, well, I don't know.

That's I mean, I don't know about a lot of things, Randy, and that's the problem.

We just need some reassurance that this thing is gonna go.

That's the main thing.

The re the reassurance I can give you is that we work on this every day.

And we've been over all kinds of mountains to get to where we are today.

And as I mentioned earlier, everything that we need in order to be able to start in Q1 is in place.

We didn't expect a government shutdown.

I don't know how that might impact us.

Um that hasn't been particularly a problem for us yet.

But we don't control any of that stuff.

We haven't controlled anything on this process since we began virtually because COVID happened right after we got started.

So I'm telling you what my expectation is at this point.

That's really the best I can give you.

I'm I can't guarantee anything.

We can't build it if we don't have a loan.

We can't build it if we don't have all the components to the capital stack that we've put together, which includes this.

Then that that puts us in a predicament, then it's not a guarantee.

It could be just we're just betting uh betting right now.

What what you're at?

50% chance, 100% chance of this happening?

It's my expectation.

That's 100% expectation.

Okay, we'll proceed uh with our council members.

But Chris, you did you have something on this before we move to our next council member?

So my recollection is because we had a few over the last couple of years or at least one, where the council and the board did set a deadline for the project to be completed.

It wasn't a start, it wasn't a partial, but it was a completion.

And we actually had to turn down, we notified that property owner.

It was, I won't be able to name it.

It was the project immediately adjacent to the corner of 27th and Montana Avenue.

That project was under construction and remained under construction, and it got extended and extended, and finally a uh a drop dead deadline was put on the agreement, and they didn't meet that deadline, and they're not eligible for any reimbursement.

So we have, and that's not the only project we've put a deadline on, but it's been a generous date.

I mean, and in general being speaking generally here, it was quite generous.

I think those dates that we've picked for the completion of projects that they have to be done by a certain date, um, or they're not eligible for reimbursement.

Uh there may have been some phasing to those as well.

There was no phasing on approval, but like I say, some extensions were granted as people came in and computing communicated extenuing circumstances that had them asking for more time.

So the my point being you've put some deadlines for completion.

We haven't had them as partial components, not as Gina said, you can.

It's just got to be negotiated.

It's a new concept.

Okay, very good.

Thank you.

Councilmember Rupsis, Council Mr Rowan.

Um Mayor, I'm why don't you go ahead and skip me?

I'd I'd like to hear more from staff when they figure out what's going on with these uh projections because what was what was included in the uh DBP's report for at the October meeting uh showed a surplus throughout the period as well.

So uh I'd like to know really let them figure out what the discrepancy is.

Okay, when they're comfortable with that, we'll come back to that.

Councilmember Owen.

I'm sorry, is Andy nodding because he's comfortable now?

Are they our uh uh Andy, my mat, whoever is our current spokesperson.

All right, Mayor, if you'll bear with me, I'm gonna share the screen here.

I determined what the difference is.

Um what was included in your packet shows 1.5 million dollars for remaining construction for the two-way street conversion down near the bottom.

I'm gonna try to talk and uh what do I gotta stop sharing that?

Sorry.

Um the cash flow projection is supposed to only show the operating cost, and we borrowed funds for the two-way conversion project.

So that should not have been included as a use of cash because we do not include the debt proceeds in the cash balance, nor do we include the expenses associated with that.

Oh the corrected one that was presented at the October meeting as well and was not included in your packet.

And that's my apologies on that.

Um screen.

This one.

Let's hope I open the right one.

So in your packet, there are two changes, but the the main one is that construction.

Um if you go down right here in the bottom, you'll see CIP two-way conversion construction.

You'll have a number of about 1.5 something.

It is not included in this again, because the beginning cash balance does not include borrowed funds for that project.

Um, so either we could increase beginning cash by the borrowed funds and leave that in there, or consequently, what we've done is just remove that because it's not available for grants or other operating costs.

This one here is accurate.

Uh the other change you'll see is we moved the Rockman project million first million dollar payment out.

Um, and that's just due to the timing on that project, I believe.

Um, that doesn't change the overall projections, but that that would change some of those early years because there'd be a million less paid out on the in FY27.

Okay, so Andy, just to summarize then, when the proper treatment of the two-way conversion, either revenue or expenses are dealt with correctly.

Um, it is a uh however you want to find significant, but um uh positive cash balanced through these years uh from roughly 2.7 million uh to some I think whatever the numbers are, but they're always uh two uh several million bucks positive.

Your lowest point is FY20 or 30 or so.

What is that?

Okay, Councilmember Ripsis, this was your uh you want to come back to this?

So yeah, thank you, Mayor.

So with that understanding, thank you, Andy, for clearing that up.

Um, I'd like to make a motion uh just to get something on the table.

We can start deliberating that.

Um I moved to conditionally approved tax increment financing assistance from the downtown urban renewal TIFF district for old buildings hardware development venture LP for its mixed use project at 2802 Montana Avenue, up to 745,000 as recommended by DBP board.

Very good.

We have a uh motion for approval consistent with the staff recommendation.

Is there a second?

I will second that then for uh discussion.

So that's the motion that's on your table.

Any further discussion from you, Councilmember Rupsis?

Yeah, I'll go ahead and and um put this out there.

Um I think I think if this project were to come to us today, uh, and this is how I'm looking at it.

The the motion uh as staff recommended, um is the same exact language that we use with every TIFF district uh grant that that we do, right?

It's we are thinking about this as a new TIFF grant.

They were this were coming to us fresh today uh in this position where the developer is ready within 60 days to sign the development agreement, a development agreement that will have a drop dead date for uh final payout uh for completion of the project, and they're ready to go.

They've got their tax credits uh available.

Um, to whatever extent the bank would ever offer uh support for a project like this.

We've got a letter, you know, giving that kind of very ambiguous, yeah, we're we're working with them kind of uh language, which is more than we ever really get from banks.

Um we would be jumping up and down.

Um so excited, as we were in 2022 to have this project that was going to be uh renovating, restoring a historic building uh right in the core of our downtown.

We'd be very happy with this.

Um the fact that it has been delayed getting to this point is frustrating for everybody.

Um the fact that we didn't have the uh original um application voided after 365 days because it didn't um because that was in the original staff memo that should have kind of kicked into that process.

That's a procedural issue that we have to deal with staff, and we probably should address that separately from the consideration of whether or not today we want to approve the uh assistance, TIFF assistance for this particular project.

Um it would be nice to say that um a a developer should always have their entire capital stack with bank financing in place before we give the TIFF uh um uh assistance, but that's just not how the projects work.

Um and in my mind, there is a significant difference between the projects that we've seen over the last four years for downtown um development versus those we've seen in the South Billings.

In South Billings, we've approved TIFF grants for landscaping at a fast food restaurant uh for assistance for a uh a um uh an oil change uh facility.

Uh the types of business uh private investment um that we've assisted in the the South Billings TIF Disc district really don't meet that but for qualification that we like to stand on.

Whereas the projects that we see downtown, they almost always do.

Whether it's this one, the AC Hotel, the old town flats, what have you, they've all kind of got that element in downtown of needing that extra TIFF assistance just to get them across the the finish line.

Um this is a great project.

It's a worthy project.

And again, if it was coming to us fresh today, no question uh we would approve this.

Um we could at this point turn it down, ask the developers to go back, submit a brand new application.

It would probably come back at a higher number, um, and we would still approve it, or uh more accurately, the next council will likely approve it.

And it will cost us more, it will cost the developer time, which is something we always try to uh minimize because we know the cost of delays uh as those get added on to to developers to do their projects.

So um I would hope that we're able to kind of put our frustrations on what has happened over the last five years aside tonight, look at this fresh and say, yes, the developer is ready to go.

They're in a position where almost no TIFF applications ever come to us.

Um, and put a put a good um development agreement in place that says uh the it will be completed by this date and and go forward and encourage uh the developer and the entire uh community to get behind this project and support it.

Um and and uh really be happy, excited about this great project coming to the community.

So I'd hope we could support this and and move on and get councilment or asking the ladder home uh before it gets too much later.

Very good, Councilmember Repsis.

I had the second, so I will speak to that, and then I'll recognize Councilmember Rowan, who we had online and Councilmember Kennedy has just a um asked to be recognized.

Um I I'll support the the motion because the um I agree the LaFears have a great project here.

And this project I think is closer to completion than a lot of other TIFF projects that we actually ever see, despite these past delays.

Uh the Billings Hardware project really is in the heart of downtown.

It sat empty for I understand close to 30 years.

Um it was just incredible.

And that's uh right in the middle of our downtown.

And so the LaFevers have a uh proven track record of getting things done.

Uh they're clearly committed to the project.

They've done a great job on the on the uh Monty.

So I think it's got great promise.

Um uh if the developers do have to come back, Councilmember Rups has touched on it.

I have some concern that uh they'll ask for more money.

This this was put uh, you know uh the the dollar value of this has actually gone down every year, and they have not come back and asked to increase that.

And I have some concern that it'll put more pressure on the TIFF district if we um have to have to delay this.

We don't want it to last uh another 30 years of of delay.

And I I mentioned that it's farther along than other uh TIFF projects.

Um the fact that they've got now 1.8 million dollars in tax historic tax credits that they did not have in September when they came back is absolutely fundamental.

Um that's a huge piece of equity for any bank, um, including FIB, the 90% construction contracts or or uh uh documents that they have should give them a good idea on on construction costs.

Um they've got a marketing agreement on that first floor on the commercial, those are all really positive things that we often would not see in another project.

Um I also don't think that it's realistic to expect that any bank would make a commitment before getting TIFF uh uh uh commitments, unless there was tons of other um uh dollars out there.

And in this case, uh the letter from FIB, I I agree it's it's not a legally binding thing, but if you've ever dealt with a bank, you know you're not gonna get that uh from them.

And the fact that they would sign anything from the bank president, I think does is a is means a lot.

It sends uh uh a positive signal.

So I don't see any reason to uh uh attach to this um project uh requirements that we don't apply to other uh projects.

In my mind, that would be just asking uh potentially for a lawsuit, which is not to say that I'm not sympathetic to putting in some sort of a deadline here for construction, but I think it would have to be with the agreement and thoughtful uh participation of the of the LaFevers.

Um I kind of like Council Member Asmelliter's uh idea of some sort of uh partial uh uh contribution rather than completion of construction because so much can go wrong in the course of construction.

And um, but I I do think if there were such a deadline, it should be pretty generous.

We just want to get uh my understanding is something uh incorporated in the way of a deadline, maybe even um uh construction to commence or 20%, 25%, you know, by the end of 26.

But um, I think we want to error if that happens, we'd want to err on the side of um uh uh being sure that it's gonna uh happen.

Um so anyway, uh I've spoken uh to the motion.

I'd recognize council member Owen before and council member uh Kennedy.

Council Member Owen.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor.

I apologize, but I still have questions.

I did not get a chance before the motion was asked.

That that's you're welcome to pose those questions.

All right.

Brandy, do you mind answering a few more questions?

So there's this sort of representation that you know, I don't do construction projects, I don't do project finance, but there's this representation that everything's in place, but everything's not in place, right?

The financing's not in place.

So tell me why you keep standing here saying we've got everything in place when we don't actually have financing in place.

What am I misunderstanding?

I'm not I'm not sure I'm totally following your question.

You've said a couple of times tonight, everything is in place for us to start construction, but financing is not in place.

So what's the everything?

What's everything else?

I'm not sure that's exactly what I said.

Okay.

What I said was we have all the pieces moving that will allow us to get the final the financing finalized and be able to, so we've submitted for permit, we've gotten our part two approval from the National Park Service.

We've we've got a lease uh leasing agreement with Coldwell Banker.

I mean, we've gotten all the pieces together that were not at that place in September.

We've been working on all of these things for a long period of time, but all of those things are ready now.

So it's like a chess game.

Everything's lined up.

We're gonna be able to start making moves soon.

But we can't make them yet because well, we're making it's you know, we're making all of them all the time.

I mean, it's all moving forward, but it doesn't happen.

So we don't have the pricing back from the contractor yet.

He has the drawings, he's been working on it for a couple of weeks.

We will get that those numbers in a couple of weeks.

Once we we're gonna probably have to spend some time with him to because things have undoubtedly changed since the last time he priced it.

We'll work that out.

That's a number that obviously the bank absolutely has to have.

Once they have that, then other things can start to happen.

And so I still think there's a chance that we can have all of this done by the end of the year, the first part of the quarter one.

And then once we do, we're ready to go.

Okay.

So But there's there's just there's it's I don't even know how else to say it.

I mean, we don't obviously everything is not final or we would go.

But everything that we need to get final is in play and is close.

And then certain dominoes will affect other dominoes, and we can knock them all down.

So it's your understanding that the finalization of financing is dependent on multiple things, not just the approval of a TIFF award.

Correct.

Absolutely.

How much of your go no go?

Your decisions are based on the marketing interest.

Are you sort of saying we need to have commitments for 25% of the square footage, 40%?

Is that part of your capital stack?

Are you leveraging against rental agreements?

How is that factoring in?

We are at the present time not being required to have any commitments on the commercial spaces.

So there's nothing being held up by that.

One of the things that the bank wanted was a bridge loan.

They didn't want to do the bridge loan, that the bridges the tax credits, so we found another lender for that.

We just talked with them today, in fact.

And they're interested.

All of these things just have to happen.

I I didn't mean necessarily for the financing, I meant for your internal decision making.

Is there a point at which you won't break ground until you have a certain number of lease agreements or as soon as we have the money, we go.

Okay.

We have no other things that are causing us pause except the fact that we can't start until we have a commitment with a construction law.

Okay.

Those are all the questions I have.

Thank you.

Uh I'm just gonna speak real briefly here.

Is I just don't think I can support this tonight.

And it presents a real conundrum for me.

I'm concerned about the downtown.

I really am.

Um, and I'm not feeling the kind of urgency to get this project done in a way that will inject the energy into the downtown that we need.

Now I recognize there's a flip side of that is if this project doesn't move forward, that's equally bad for downtown.

But this project and the futurity tower, these are big leaps, they're big swings, and they're just not happening with the urgency that I think we need to see.

And I think it's important that council say if we're going to make this commitment that we need to see projects move forward, we need to see them move forward in a reasonable time frame.

I I actually am beginning to get concerned that if we continue to sort of twist and find ways to make this work, that we start to look like we're giving preferential treatment.

I'm not sure that I agree with council member reps.

This is that we would accept anybody who came in with this.

I'm concerned that it's starting to look like we're trying to find a way to make something work that maybe shouldn't work right now or at least isn't working because we're three years into not being able to get this project to move forward.

There's clearly been momentum.

Um, and this isn't an easy decision, but I'm not hearing a willingness to commit to any deadline.

I'm not hearing a willingness to, you know, adopt any sort of change of behavior that convinces me that we will not be, or that the next council won't be having the same conversation in 12 months.

So you know, I'm happy to hear debate from other council members and be persuaded I'm wrong.

But at this point, I'm I'm not able to support this tonight.

Very good.

Thank you.

Uh council member uh Kennedy.

Thank you, Mayor.

I'm gonna make a motion to amend um and an amendment to the motion to add to it that we have an 80% completion through March 30th of 2027.

So just to restate the motion is to uh add a condition in the development agreement that um the project reach 80% completion by March 30, 2027.

Did I state that correctly?

Yes, and Councilmember Astman Leiter indicates he wants to make a second.

Um did you want to speak to your proposed amendment?

I do.

And um, as Chris said, we could have you at full completion by that date.

Um, but you may have something come up that you aren't able to get it completely, but you've had the majority of it done.

Um Randy, when you said you're ready to go, you just need the money to be able to go in January or February, and you talked about nine, 10 months or so.

I'm just going out and trying to give you enough time.

But if this is delayed and you can't get it, uh, you can't swing it by March 30th of 27, then I I think we're shooting um into the wind.

And and so um I'm just trying to move this on and trying to get the project going.

And we have done completion dates before.

Uh Council Raspberry.

Yeah, and I the only way that I'm gonna support the application is if there's some kind of actual firm commitment to to getting it done within the next 12 to 15 months.

Um I'm done with the extension stuff.

I'm done with that.

Like there's got to be some kind of completion date.

So I'm a no on the out on the original motion unless there's some kind of firm deadline that this is going to move meaningfully uh forward.

Um I don't care if that's an 80 percent, I don't care if it's 25 percent.

I I like I none of that matters to me necessarily, but I want some kind of commitment so that we're not continuing to kick this thing down the road, because I'll still be here in 27, and there is no way I will support, and I'll be your your biggest opponent, biggest and loudest, and I'm the biggest up here at the moment.

Um I'm the loudest generally.

Um I'll be your biggest and loudest opponent to to to kill this or to try to to encourage council to kill it if if not.

Um we just have to get a commitment.

Uh very good.

Now uh discussion on the proposed motion.

Uh I'm sorry, I was gonna recognize Council Member Boyet, but Councilmember Ruffice, you want to what I want to do is say, Randy, you heard that motion eighty percent completed by March 30th of 2027.

Can you live with that?

Yes.

Okay.

Um council member uh rips us, council member all and council member Nees.

At the risk of just sounding completely um I don't know, wishy-washy or something.

There is no difference between um in terms of the TIFF payout, there's no difference between March 31st and June 30th, right?

Because it it doesn't happen until TIFF doesn't get paid out until the fiscal year after completion.

So I I wonder if we should be saying by the end of June 30.

And I I don't know how we're even gonna measure 80 percent.

Is somebody is there uh an actual way to measure 80 percent?

Um, I think if we were to just say completed completed by June 30, 2027, no extensions in the development agreement.

Does that difference of three months um make a difference to somebody?

Uh I'm gonna ask Council Raspelinder's got uh uh more experience in this.

You also have to be able to measure uh substantial completion too.

So but Council Raspeler.

And I'll I'll ask for concurrence from the the movement here.

To me, 80% completion is uh I'm not gonna be in there counting studs and counting nails and and finish 80% of your budget is expended by that point in time, and there is a set date for completion.

The this 80% completion mark does not negate the fact that we have an actual completion date also.

So I would expect staff then to set the completion date similar to what you're suggesting.

80% has to be done by March, the end of March, the end of Q1, and the project has to be completed by the end of fiscal 27 at that point.

That is that okay.

So so Randy, uh the discussion as I understand it, let's let him consult his client.

And so Randy, before you say anything, let me just uh tell you my understanding of what was just said, which was that there was a request that the motion be clarified to include two elements before it had one element, namely 80% by the end of March of 27.

Council Rasmider was was saying that part's okay, but he would like to graft on top of it an actual uh substantial completion date of and I'm using that term substantial completion um specifically because I think that has some legal meaning behind it.

Uh substantial completion by the end of uh three months later, June of 27.

Um so that's that's my uh understanding of what we're talking about is those two elements.

And then Councilmember Boyette asked, is that okay?

I said okay.

I said yes to the 80 percent on March 31st.

Haven't responded to the June 30th yet, and I would we're not comfortable with that.

It might need to be July 31st.

It's gonna be right in there, but certain things happen sometimes at the end of construction projects, just drag them out.

And that's always unfortunate when that happens, but it happens.

But 80% to your whoever made that.

I guess um Bill, you made that.

We we can agree to that.

We can meet that.

And we can put some other date in there for 100%, but it needs to be more than three months.

Okay.

So he's spoken to that uh council just so uh we have a the motion that we have before us from council member Kennedy is the one element of 80% by the end of September.

The um uh Randy said the uh he and his client apparently are comfortable with that.

Um I'm not gonna allow a so-called friendly amendment in this case because it's very substantive.

Technically, those aren't okay under Robert's rules.

So um that's very substantive.

Let's uh if somebody wants to amend it further, of course, that's a possibility.

But at this point, the motion that is before you is the 80% completion by the end of March of 2027.

Um I think I'd represent or recognize Councilmember Roops if you address that.

We we're then going down here, Councilmember and Council Member Nees.

My question was also how we measure 80% completion.

And I'm I guess I'm a little concerned about the only metric being budget expenditure.

Um, I think there's ways to obligate budget funds that aren't don't actually result in construction moving forward.

But um, I I trust that there's sort of conventional practices in the industry that can be looked at.

So that was my question too.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh Councilmember Nish.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, this question may be for you because typically when we have a TIFF agreement, um, under normal circumstances, we approve it, and then the development agreements gets done, I believe, within 60 days, and then sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it they they start the project and finish it.

Other times the the DBA is telling them, hey, they're reminding them you got to do something, otherwise, then then they take the whole thing away from them.

So they they've kind of handled the fact that you suddenly you're you've lost an award.

So what's the I mean, do we as a council expect, is there an expectation, or is there any process that says, hey, once you start a project, you have to be done with an X number of years, days, months.

Is there any expectation that we stipulate to them?

Uh council member niece and mayor and council, I guess just a couple things to point out, and this is exactly to your question in terms of the development agreements.

I was gonna mention this a little bit earlier.

There's language in our development agreement templates that talks about there's conditions precedent that have to be met in there, including financing, proof of financing, budget permits submitted, etc.

And the way the language is written is that after the development agreement is executed, after 90 days from that execution, if those conditions precedent have not been met, then the parties can decide to come back and say, what's going on?

What you know, where are we at with this?

And this was something that was put in place a few years ago because we had a couple of projects as you're referring to in downtown where they weren't going getting done, and the and the board was asking what's the status.

So we have language in there that does refer to that regarding several of the criteria, the conditions that you're talking about.

That's in the document and will be in the executed document for this project, like it has been for the other.

So that's one thing to make a point of that after 90 days from execution of the DA, those conditions after any time after that that can be revisited.

So that's one thing.

Is that agreement in our packet?

No, I there's no development agreement.

I didn't I didn't include that because we end up finalizing it and making sure it's matches after you take action.

But the conditions that you have in there, the 60 days and the reimbursement requirements are that is what gets reflected in that document.

Um, the other thing I just want to mention brief really briefly, in the draft DA right now with for this project, we also have the reimbursement maximum, and then it also talks says the reimbursement period will begin in FY28 as long as the project is completed in FY27.

The deadline for that reimbursements would start July 30th, 2027, obviously to your discussion, assuming that the project has to be done, otherwise, no reimbursement.

So that's another piece of language that's already in there that does have that end of fiscal, that um fiscal 28 as the first potential year that reimbursement could occur if they've completed the project.

So just wanted to mention those things.

Those are already things that are in our agreements.

That part is in this one specifically because of that expectation that it won't be done and couldn't even come for reimbursement until that fiscal year.

So who does the extensions on the agreements if they're if for some reason they're short, something comes up and the project is going to take an extra three months to complete?

Is that something that comes back to city council?

Or does the the partnership uh approve that extension?

Um and I can have, I mean, Mamet can speak to this a little bit.

My the experience to this point has been that initially, like the board has the DBP board has entertained those requests and then you know made act made some made decisions in terms of that based on what's in the development agreements.

I think we're with the new advisory committees and that we're I would I I'll say we're looking at that because of how that advisory committee is now advising you.

So it would really be advising you directly versus the DBP.

But Mamet could speak, I guess, in more detail on that.

So this amendment that we're hearing right now addresses it to be completed in July of 27.

And I think the the D the development agreement is saying uh 80 percent uh I'm sorry, 80 percent at the end of March in March, end of March in uh in 27.

And but the agreement that they would be signing uh states it has to be done by the end of 27.

This has the the deadline for yeah, they have to complete the project by the end of fiscal 27 to then request reimbursement in 20 uh fiscal 28.

So that and that deadline for that fiscal year is June 30th of 27.

So a few months past the March, that would be if the project's complete by that June 30th, then reimbursement could move forward in the next.

Oh, because it's the fiscal year.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we ask you so June of 27, they have to be completed anyway.

For the fiscal year, yeah.

In order to get reimbursement in 28.

Correct.

Okay, I see.

Okay, uh Councilmember Kenny, and then we'll at some point we'll need to move to a vote on this amendment.

I do think we need to move to a vote, but I I just want to say we got a commitment of um eighty percent through March 30th of 2027.

Wyeth just told us that if it's not completed by the end of 27, there isn't any reimbursement by 28, because that's in the document.

So I think we've hashed over everything.

Let's move this on and uh and go forward.

Very good.

And uh a question, I guess for uh Wyatt, uh there've been some perfectly legitimate questions about how you measure 80 percent and those sorts of things.

My understanding is if we approve this, it the the uh final terms of the development agreement will then have to be addressed um by staff and the developer, and you could work out some of those details uh to the extent there's any question about that.

Is that correct?

That if we have this general principle that uh um you can work out some of those details.

Uh mayor and and council, I mean, yes, if the if yeah, you're if you're approving that deadline um and also that percentage, then yeah, we will put that in the document and also um determine you know at least some kind of check in terms of that percentage.

Okay, and and the terms would have to be acceptable to the developer, they won't sign the agreement.

So okay.

Uh Councilmember Rupsters.

Thank you, Mayor.

I didn't want to prolong this, but I heard both Councilmember Nees and your questioning and Councilmember Kennedy say something and and and why I just want to make sure everybody's clear.

What Wyeth was saying was that if they're not completed construction by the end of uh June 2027, they won't get reimbursement in the following year.

Not that they won't get re reimbursement at all, right?

So and I think I I just kind of came out a couple different ways.

So I just wanted to make sure everybody was clear on that.

The development agreement will have a drop dead date in it, um, but we haven't determined what that is yet.

Is that right, Wyath?

Yes.

The development agreement will have a must be completed by X date, or you have to request an extension uh formally where there will be no reimbursement.

Um Councilmember Ripsis and Mayor and Council, I guess I'm not, I don't know, Mamet, you want to chime in?

Mayor and council and councilmember Robesis the current date on the development agreement right now in its draft form is June 30th, 27.

And historically, when a project did not meet that deadline, the payments got carried over the following years.

We've had four uh contracts that defaulted historically, two have been corrected, one has been withdrawn, one has been terminated.

And all of these instances, that's the practice that was exercised with.

Is there any ability to request an extension from that June 30, 2027?

Correct.

That's also in the language.

Okay, so that would have to be a formal request, and that's where Wyatt was saying we'll have to figure out how we handle those with the new advisory board, how that request for an extension comes before council.

Yes.

Okay.

Um thank you for that clarification.

We're talking about more or less the standard uh agreement and its terms, but one very important unique agreement, which is this 80% um uh completion by the end of March of 27.

Uh that is the motion that is before you only the amendment, not the rest of the agreement.

So we'll move to a vote on Councilmember Kennedy's proposed amendment to impose that uh timing requirement.

Is the motion clear on the amendment?

Okay.

If in favor of councilmember Kennedy's proposed amendment, please say aye.

Aye aye.

If opposed, please say nay.

That votion that motion passes uh unanimously then.

Now we have the amended underlying motion for approval with that um uh condition that has been added.

Any further discussion now on the amended motion before we proceed to a vote.

Okay, uh we now have the amended uh motion before you for approval with that condition.

If in favor of the amended motion, please say aye.

Aye.

If opposed, say nay.

Motion passes unanimously.

With one exception, Councilmember Gillick, uh, who kept his mouth uh closed the whole time.

Must have been difficult, but you did.

Very good.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Council.

Thank you, uh LaFevers, thank you, Randy.

Thank you, uh uh Downtown Belly's Partnership staff, everybody who's worked on this project.

Go forth and build and go forth and get financing.

Um Councilmember Aspeliner, anything else on this before we move on?

Uh you're pointing out the time.

Is we should no item.

Oh, you didn't want to take a break.

Okay, council.

Uh we've got a request not to take a break.

Uh we'll proceed uh if that's okay uh with everybody.

Okay.

So um uh uh Tony, please read item number four.

Item number four, nomination and election of deputy mayor.

Staff recommends council nominate and elect a deputy mayor.

Uh very good.

I uh did consult uh a little bit with the about the procedure on this with Gina.

Um she referred me to uh our code provision 2204.

Uh we have to have uh a voice vote um on this uh per Roberts Rules of Order Section 46.

Um the way that should work is we just receive nominations from the floor.

No second is needed, it functions as a the nomination sanctions as a as a motion again.

No seconds needed, and then we'll just proceed to uh vote on the nominees.

So I will then um if there's no correction from uh Gina or uh Chris on any of that, I'll just uh ask um uh whether there are uh uh any nominations or nominations are now in order for the office of um deputy mayor, council member um Aspenlighter.

I move to nominate and elect council member Mike Boyta's deputy mayor.

Okay.

Um we've got that uh nomination, then um uh are there any other uh nominations um before us?

Any other nominations seeing none, um it is possible then to just recognize uh by acclamation uh that council member uh Boyette has been um elected to this uh uh well-paying job.

Uh so hardly.

Um yeah, I my understanding is there's no even no note for a vote, it's just done by acclamation.

So council and uh Gina is nodding her head.

So that uh resolves item number four.

Is there public comment on non-agenda items?

Anything that was not on our agenda tonight, if so, uh we just ask that you keep a comments to three minutes and your name and address if you're comfortable.

Thank you.

Evening, uh my comments are brief, I assure you.

Uh my name is Susan Jurovich, 3032 Solar Boulevard.

I'm here representing the city's Human Relations Commission.

I'm here on behalf of a coalition of faith leaders who are coming together to confront a growing concern in our community uh regarding hate, discrimination, and bullying.

Next Tuesday, November 18th at 530 p.m., we invite you to join us at first congregational church at 310 North 27th Street for a round table titled Confronting Hate Together.

The gathering is not just for clergy, it's for anyone who believes in the dignity of every person.

We'll be sharing stories, listening to those who've been impacted, and exploring solutions to support victims and build a more compassionate billings.

Your presence matters.

As elected leaders, your attendance would send a powerful message that our city stands against hate, that we're willing to listen, learn, and then lead with empathy.

We know your schedules are very, very full, but we also know that moments like this, moments of standing up for the dignity of every person are worth showing up for.

So please come join us.

Come stand with your faith communities, your neighbors and constituents, and let's show Billings what leadership looks like when it's rooted in compassion and courage.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

Very good.

Thank you.

And thank you for your service on the commission.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other public comment on items not on our agenda this evening.

Thank you very much.

Council Mayor Bill.

Um I had to address this.

And sir, we just need your uh name and address if you're comfortable with it.

I'm sorry, sir.

Um need your name.

Denver Slater.

I had to address your city council some months ago uh regarding an issue with the uh rescue mission at that time when I uh explained briefly after you know nine o'clock of very relevant issues.

I thank you, Nicole, for um I was escorted out after explaining how detrimental counterproductive that language was.

Thank you for giving me the time at this point.

A couple of issues I'll be caught, I'll be blief.

I'll be pretty uh initially um I have uh ridden the bus systems from Seattle to Billings to all over.

This med bus system is one of the best, one of the best, one of the best staff, all excluding one, perhaps two.

The driver on bus number five, older gentleman.

I use the term gentleman loosely.

I had ridden that bus relatively consistently over the course of about the last year, and invariably it surprised me how inconsistently courtesy and courts on professionally skilled that guy was.

I said, you know, I've seen a 16-year-old kid and driver head that knows how to utilize or break panel system better than you, professional.

Um he takes issue with that because it means this consistently now.

The thing that I take so much issue with with Josh.

And I asked him to be here tonight because I've tried to talk to him, check that.

I have spoken with him on the telephone three times.

Very calm to meet melt toast.

The first time, the second time I questioned to speak with Jack.

I were the good Lord Christ of my witness, was sitting on that bus at number five, right in front of Billing Sting High School.

Oh, listen, high school kid.

You know, but this one little Asian kid had half the fear.

Half.

And that went and grabbed that kid.

And I said, Oh, you kind of and I stood up and I said, You push your hands on me.

That's child abuse.

Are you kidding me?

So, Dan, if you can just uh wrap up because the three months.

Mayor.

That man should have been terminated immediately at that point.

Should have.

Wasn't last week.

I got on that bus with a road up sleeping bag and walk.

A couple of homies.

I was saying, right the bus got ready to go.

Got out of heap.

I didn't mean on that bus in six months.

Six months.

Very good, Dan.

We appreciate you got over quite a bit, but we appreciate your calling that to our uh with all due respect.

I'd like to clear up by saying our Billings Police Department.

I have an issue and a case against clinic.

I'm not gonna go into details.

Why?

Uh we spend a lot of millions of dollars here.

Why are we, why are we not supporting our Billings Police Department, our Billings Police Department?

Why do they run how to code it?

You're already behind.

Okay.

Okay, well, very good.

Thank you for calling that attention.

Uh we've got over a couple minutes, but uh thank you for uh bringing that uh so that we know about that.

That's a very good thank you.

Very good.

Is there other public comment on uh non-agenda items?

Any other public comment on things not on our agenda tonight?

Any other public comments?

No one is standing up, no one is coming forward.

Um so we'll close the public comment period.

I believe they're I'm not aware of any council initiatives.

So with that, I believe we are adjourned.

Thanks, everybody.