Great.

I'm going to call the select board meeting to order for Wednesday, September 24th, 2025.

Of course, the meeting was called to order an hour ago by Oscar, and I thank him.

And at that time he asked John if the meeting had been properly warned.

And it was.

It was, yes.

And so I uh invite you all to our regular meeting.

And um do we have any adjustments to the agenda?

Nothing that I'm aware of.

All righty.

And um let's approve the minutes of September 9th.

Do we have a motion?

I move to approve the minutes from our last meeting.

Great.

Uh Amanda has moved to approve the minutes of September 9th, 2025.

All select board members in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

That's 5-0.

Uh now, Chair's remarks.

First, um, I understand that it is Rosh Hashanah, and we tried to schedule this meeting uh to avoid it, but I think we're still on the cusp of it.

And I just um wanted to um wish um our fellow citizens well.

And rec Rebecca Ballant posted something that says, Shana Tova, happy new year to all who celebrate.

And I I wish the same to all our citizens.

And um we tried to avoid scheduling the meeting um, but we on this holiday, um, but we encroached a little bit onto the holiday, and I apologize for that.

And I want to say that we have in the meantime heard from um the congregation that we now have their holiday schedule and will make sure that um any further encroachments don't occur.

And I have another note, and that is that um the select board was invited to witness the clearing of an abandoned encampment, and I did uh uh last Thursday.

And it was no a week ago Thursday.

And it was the police, the health department uh, well, the health officers, public works, and groundworks collect collaborative, and they cleaned up an abandoned uh encampment at the high grove lot, and there were approximately 300 needles and associated trash was removed and uh from town property.

And I wanted to thank all those involved.

And it reminded me of a line from Tequil Mockingbird where they said some people are born to do our dirty jobs for us.

And I want to thank them again because it was a hard job, and um they did it in a good spirit uh for the betterment of our town.

So I thank you.

Yeah, I have a few announcements tonight.

The state has issued a burn ban and the fire department can't issue any burn permits until the state lifts that ban, so don't ask them.

Uh I wanted to announce that the October 9th meeting on the Western Ave intersection study will be held at 6 p.m.

on Zoom.

If people don't have access to Zoom, they can attend in the planning department here at 230 Main Street.

The consultant will be presenting remotely.

Uh applications for the FY26 human services funding can now be found on the town's website.

The committee, the human services committee will hold a question and answer session with interested applicants on Wednesday, October 8th at 4.30 p.m.

in the municipal center.

All applications are due on Wednesday, October 22nd at 5 p.m.

Interested applicants can send their applications to Jessica Stickler at J Stickler at Brattleboro.gov, or they can bring them in or have them sent to the town manager's office.

Please email Jessica if you have any questions about that.

Finally, there's still time to sign up for a library card during library card sign up month.

And that is free to all residents and property owners.

That's all I have.

Great, John.

Thank you.

Are there select board members who would like to comment?

Well, I just wanted to thank everybody who participated in the listening session that we held recently.

Yeah, and I want to um express gratitude for rain and um a uh a calming down of um the dust and uh fire danger, though um I hear that loud and clear.

There is a burn ban, so don't even think about burning anything.

It's already burnt.

So um let's see.

Public participation.

Are there people members of the public who would like to speak at our select board meeting about an item that is not on tonight's agenda?

Lisa.

Hi everyone.

I'm hi.

I'm Lisa Ford.

I'm the board chair of the Boys and Girls Club.

I haven't been here for a while.

Um, and I wanted to bring some good news.

I wanted to say thank you to all the partners that worked with us, the Boys and Girls Club, including DBA, NEYT, BratRock, um interactions to hold the two teen block parties on Flat Street.

I want to thank the town for shutting up, you know, for allowing us to shut down the Preston lot that night.

It was a huge success, and it really feels different on Flat Street, um, especially during those times.

And I know the police with a brat team and I think the regular police are around as well, and it just feels really good.

And I saw that there's some activity now down in the um the um parking authority where the parking police usually is, the office.

So I think that's the substation beginning.

Um, and we're excited.

And I just wanted to say thanks.

It feels different.

I'm so glad.

Thank you.

Uh Susan.

Am I on?

Can you hear me okay?

Yes, you do.

Uh so uh this month in the month of August uh board materials.

Uh the police department provided a report of a summary of their activities for the month of August.

Um the calls for um this past month were 1,337 calls.

That's 14.5% higher than it was one year ago.

That evolves in 243 calls per day.

We're not out of the danger zone yet.

We still have a long ways to go.

There's been comments made recently that uh because we haven't been talking about it, that the emergency is over.

It's not over, as evidenced even by Elizabeth's report around the cleanup of the one site at High Grove parking lot.

Um we really really need to still pay attention and be vigilant and work on getting uh resolutions to community issues in a safe manner.

And um I I applaud that the public works department, the uh fire department, the health officer, parks and recreation, and so many other people participate in um helping people and uh making the town feel safer, uh, right down to cleaning up the streets after overnight activities so that uh the evidence of some of the stuff that happens is not readily visible during daylight hours.

Um I thank them for doing that, and they don't get make it publicly known how much work that they do and how much time and money is spent on those endeavors to keep the streets uh looking well um, particularly downtown.

Thank you.

Thank you, Susan.

Uh next.

Alyssa.

Hi, can you hear me?

Yes.

Great.

Um, I don't know if anyone's brought this up.

However, I just wanted to bring um a little more visibility to the fact that um when people are driving eastbound um down from Western Ave onto Green Street.

Um, if in fact that traffic pattern has changed, can we have some sort of posting, some sort of signage to inform drivers that there has been uh change in that traffic pattern?

Um my understanding is that now there are white lines creating um a pattern where you wouldn't normally travel down high street from Western Ave and you would have to put your right blinker and then kind of go around a little bit, take that right turn and slowly go down green.

And I imagine it's to slow traffic down because people fly down Green Street from Western Ave.

So I really think it's important that we post signage, um, informing drivers that the pattern has changed if that if that's what has happened.

Um the lines are white.

I don't know if maybe they should be yellow.

I maybe I should look into those laws a little more.

But if in fact that the traffic pattern has changed, can we please have some signage informing drivers that that's the new pattern?

Um it's getting a little hairy down there.

That's how I travel home from work off of the highway, and there I've started to observe that kind of curve.

Throw on my blinker, take that slow right turn down onto green, and I have people flying on the right side of me.

They're still flying down green down from Western Av.

So it's dangerous, and I'm I'm hoping it can be addressed.

Um hopefully soon.

Uh great.

Alyssa, John, do you want to comment?

Yeah, um, I understand from the DPW director that those are temporary lines out there, and that they'll be uh when the paving's all done, it'll it'll be um f finalized.

So you're muted.

You're muted.

Finalized back to the way it was or finalized in a new pattern.

Well, there's um there's it'll be finalized for the winter, and then uh this spring there'll be curbing put in.

So it will actually, you know, make it better defined.

Yeah, be much better defined at that point.

So I wonder maybe even a couple cones if there's a problem right now.

Would that be an option?

I I you know yeah, I'm a safety coordinator.

Um, so I just really think that you know that's that's an uh an administrative control.

I mean, we need to people need to be informed of how they need to navigate that space um and do so safely.

Yes, so Alyssa, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

It's on you saw mine.

It's on John's radar, and I'm sure he'll address it with public works.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Anyone else in the room?

Okay, Gary, you're up.

Hello, and how are we?

I just want to say, John, thank you for keeping me up to date on the latest with the beach rant.

You're keeping up on that.

I spoke to a couple of people there, and they're doing you know, a marvelous job.

Um, and also I want to give kudos to DPW working alongside with them.

The streets of gold are looking brighter and better each day.

Uh, I guess the final synopsis is I'm just trying to get a a uh idea or one that end date or what's going on with Amtrak, how soon their completion.

Or do they have a completion date down there?

So that also could be utilized as well.

Also, and uh just trying to get like an idea because I haven't seen anything on any of the uh uh websites or anything stating what what they're up to.

Maybe that can be probably the next meeting.

Thank you.

Look into it I don't know okay, great.

Thank you, Gary.

All right.

Uh let's move to uh the first order of business, which is the consent agenda.

Um does anyone have any comments on the select board regarding pulling an item from the consent agenda?

I move to pull the local emergency management plan um for either later in the meeting or table it to a future meeting just to be able to um all right.

Um I think it might be best if we had it at a subsequent meeting.

Is that all right?

I think we can do that.

Yep.

Is that all right?

We can do that.

Let's just be finding time on your agenda.

Very good.

All right, then I would ask then for a um motion to approve the consent agenda as modified.

Oscar.

I move to accept the consent agenda as modified.

Great.

All those in favor of approving the consent agenda as modified, please raise your hand.

Aye.

All right, we have another five zero.

We're off to an excellent start.

All right.

Um regular business.

The first item is a public hearing for Detman Drive Bridge from the Vermont Community Development Program Grant Application.

So look, here's Sue Phillian, our planner.

Good evening, Sue.

Thanks for joining us.

Good evening.

John, is there anything you'd like to introduce?

No, but I I do think you need to open a public hearing.

Oh, all right.

So I think there might be some language in your book there for that.

There is, yes.

All right.

Then I uh would ask someone to move the motion that is in our booklets.

Please.

So I motion to hold uh public hearing and to approve an application to the Vermont Community Development Program, BCDP, disaster recovery for the implementation grant in the amount of 1,833,475 for the design and construction of a replacement bridge on Detman Drive.

And to adopt the resolution from the State of Vermont uh excuse me, from Vermont Development Program for the grant application authority, and to identify Brian Brann as the contact person and John Potter as the authorizing official.

Great.

Pete has made a motion to hold a public hearing and to approve an application to the Vermont Community Development Program, VCDP, disaster recovery for an implementation grant in the amount of 1,833,475 for the design and construction of a replacement bridge on Detman Drive, and to adopt the resolution from the Vermont Development Program for grant application authority and to identify Brian Bannon as the contact person and John Potter as authorizing official.

And so if you wanted to open the public hearing, uh Sue could give you some background on this these motions, and then once you you have a conversation about it and hear from the public, you could close the public hearing and then um vote on that motion that Peter made.

Excellent.

Does that sound good?

Sounds good.

Take it away soon.

So officially open the public hearing, Liz.

I officially open the public hearing.

Thank you.

That felt unnecessary.

So I think it was in 2000 2023, maybe that, or it could have been last year, 2024, that the town of Brattleboro took over a portion of Detman Drive, which is one of the entrances to Mountain Home Mobile Home Park in Tri-Park Cooperative.

Um because there were two bridges into the park, and uh there were problems with both of the bridges and the cooperative could not afford um to replace both bridges, and they were both in in pretty poor shape.

Um Tri-Park, particularly this park has a substantial population of the town's population that live in the park, and it was really problematic when heavy delivery trucks and school buses could no longer use um that.

So the town, uh the select board voted to take over that road, including the bridge.

Um, and we have been looking for sources of funding to help do that bridge replacement.

Um Brattleboro is eligible for um grants from the uh V C D P disaster recovery um funds.

Those are funds um that were congressionally directed uh from the housing urban development hub.

Um and they were as a re they were a re-results of the federal declarations um of disasters from 2023.

Um so we are proposing to apply to this grant for the large amount.

It would include design and construction of a new bridge.

Um the bridge would be um would maximize the park access during major flood events.

It would be a wider span, it would be higher and um built to withstand uh 15-year floods, 10 to 15 year floods, which are kind of the heavy um intense rain localized rain events that we've been having that in 2023 actually shut this bridge down.

And it would also help reduce um or would be built to uh reduce scour that happens in the flooding events.

Um the project would be to demolish the existing bridge in its entire entirety.

I mentioned it would have a longer span in an elevated bridge deck.

Um actually I think I said it would withstand the 10 to 15 year old 15-year storm, but it would actually be designed to convey a hundred year flood.

Um abutments will have deep foundations capable of resisting hydraulic pressure and scour from erosion.

The stream banks in the right-of-way will be regraded to remove an existing berm and restore a more natural floodplain profile.

Um there'll be plantings of a wetland seed mix to restore the riparian buffer and trees would be planted along the roadway for the riparian in the riparian buffer area.

Um again, the project is driven by frequent bridge closer closures with attendant emergency response evacuation, inspection, and repair.

Um this will, you know, obviously improve that situation and also take care of a major infrastructure obligation that would probably otherwise have to be bonded for.

Um I think that's it.

I would just say it's complimentary to the town's other work that we've been doing over the years to ensure resiliency for Tri-Park Cooperative, um, including the master plan and the plan to relocate homes out of the floodway that they have been working on.

Thank you, Sue.

Um I recall that um I guess it was last year the select board had a field trip.

It was actually 2023, it was the first year it was on the board.

Well, I'm glad it was memorable.

It was it was a it was a field trip.

No snacks, but we can talk about that later.

And uh tell me, Sue, what happened to the other bridge?

Um there was it was redecked, so Tri-Park had been setting aside um funding to do that work, and so they were able to re-deck the bridge.

So it is currently able to handle you know the the load.

Um it is still you know, it's at risk in a 10 to 15 year storm.

Um so it that could be closed off if all the more reason to have this bridge.

Yes.

And and was it difficult to find uh uh a sponsor for this federal money?

Was it was this a difficult process?

So this we had originally had approval from the select board to apply apply for a hazard mitigation grant um through FEMA, and uh that there were so many projects that have come in.

Obviously, there's been so much flooding that's been happening around the state.

And so um that was kind of waitlisted, and they suggested that we look for other sources, um, and this is a good fit.

We've had a pre-application meeting, and they're good.

It's a good fit.

Yeah.

And I know you grant is going to be needs to be submitted tomorrow, so the resolution form is also um important to be accomplished or tonight.

Whatever happens, we you get your paperwork.

Um I again I I applaud all the work that your department has been doing with Tri-Park and all of their planning work, and this is of a set.

And and again, as you mentioned, it is eight or nine percent of our town population, so it is very important.

Um there other select board members who'd like to comment.

I just remember from that initial meeting when we went out seeing the the disrepair it was in, how how much of it was closed, um, conversations about getting a fully loaded tanker truck uh you know for fire suppression over that bridge was gonna be sort of a gun it and close your eyes situations that um a lot of the oil deliveries that they would um receive just from on a day-to-day basis were made towards the end of the day when the truck was lighter.

Um so that was the level of concern.

So kudos for finding this money, honestly.

I mean, it's just really important as Liz pointed out, as you've pointed out, you know, there's eight to nine percent of our population lives out there, so it's really important that we focus on them.

So thank you.

Yeah, I mean it's really awesome.

I um curious, will it be tie into Route 9 in relatively the same location, or is that to be determined?

The new bridge?

I think it will tie in in the same location.

It's just the the ramp up to the bridge might be a little higher and longer.

But yes.

Uh thank you, Sue.

This this is an application.

Is this something that we think we're just applying for, that we have a reasonable expectation that we're probably do we have any sense around that?

I I think we have a pretty positive we had a positive meeting with V C D P staff, and they were very encouraging, so I think we're feeling pretty good about it.

Um great.

And then I believe the answer to this is yes, but just to say in public there would be no town match or anything like that for this project.

That's right.

That's correct.

This is a hundred percent funding.

Fantastic.

And then side note, I had coffee with a member of sort of a large regional organization this morning, and she specifically called out you and Brian Bannon as you know best in state planning department stuff.

So thank you.

Definitely.

All right.

Are there members of the public who would like to comment at this public hearing?

Dick.

Is there uh I didn't see any administrative uh fee in here for overseeing the grant?

Is there any administration money for us for overseeing this?

Yeah, that's a um that's a good question, and I don't know if this has allows that.

Um we'll look into that.

Um if there is, I mean, a lot of the federal grants allow 15%.

Um we could ask for higher if if you authorize that.

Is there a spot for us to authorize that or is that the next phase?

Um can we just add to the end of that first sentence and any administrative costs?

Yeah, allowable administrative costs.

That's what I would recommend.

All righty.

Any other comments from the public?

Are there any online?

Anyone has anything else to say on this matter?

Just remember what did remind me the what you added at the ends, and any and any allowable administrative costs.

And Peter should accept that as a friendly.

Peter, would you accept that as a friendly and I'm really thinking about this hard and I'm screwed?

Yes, of course.

Okay, great.

All right.

Now I would like to close the public hearing.

Uh read the motion one more time, and then we'll vote on it.

Uh the public hearing is officially closed.

Uh and the motion is uh to hold a public hearing and to approve an application to the Vermont Community Development Program, disaster recovery for an implementation grant in the amount of 1,833,475 for the design and construction of a replacement bridge on Detman Drive and any allowable administrative costs.

And to adopt the resolution from the Vermont Development Program for grant application authority and to identify Brian Bannon as the contact person and John Potter as the authorizing official.

All select board members in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Great.

That's five zero.

John, do you accept your role as authorizing official?

Yes.

Yes, I will.

Thank you.

Is there something else?

I want to thank Sue.

Sue.

Thank you, Sue.

All right.

Parking ordinance revisions.

Yes.

So the board discussed the parking budget uh in June, I believe, and passed a parking budget.

And so uh the uh police department and the public works department are collaborating on how to bring back the uh necessary revisions to your ordinance that would implement that budget that you approved.

And so tonight is a first reading uh on that, and and we have assistant chief Evans and um highway superintendent Chico here to uh step us through this first reading.

Good evening, gentlemen, and welcome.

Oh good evening.

We're open to your report.

Good.

Uh it's good to see you all.

Uh tonight we'll be presenting the first reading of the proposed changes and amendments to the town's parking ordinance.

These updates will reflect recommendations made by the board at your June 17th meeting and are intended to make our parking system more efficient, financially sustainable, and user-friendly for residents, visitors, and business owners.

Tonight's presentation is informational only.

No action is required.

We'll walk you through the key updates, including clarifying ordinance language, revising the parking citation appeals process, and formally recognizing our resource officers in Bratt.

They're part of our resource assistance team within the ordinance.

We'll also introduce the customer portal being integrated into our parking system, which will allow people to pay or appeal citations online and manage parking permits online.

Finally, we'll highlight the addition of 12 free parking days during the downtown holiday season.

A step designed to support our downtown businesses while maintaining the financial health of the parking program.

And our goal here is to modernize operations, improve customer service, and ensure that the parking revenues continue to maintain and enhance the downtown infrastructure.

We look forward to your feedback as we prepare for these changes.

And with that, I'll turn it over to Darren.

Hello.

So I believe in your packet uh attachment A, I think it's page 108.

Um, if you want to follow along.

Um I'm just gonna kind of go uh gist of the changes that are uh being recommended.

Um and so we'll start with the uh first one, um, which is these changes are being made in chapter 16 of our traffic ordinance.

Um the first one that we are looking at is section 16-1, which is definitions.

Um in the uh one of the definitions is the term police officer.

Um currently there's a bunch of different uh positions of employers that are in the town, like uh police officer, um parking enforcement.

Um what we're amending is that we're actually going to add the resource officer in there with the Bratt team members.

Um that just gives them authority, uh the same authority as some of these other employees only for this chapter.

So the first amendment would be adding Bratt resource officer to that definition of the word police officer in that section.

The next uh amendment we're looking at is section 16-7, which is the parking citation appeal process.

Um we started to look at this because back in June we talked about um going from two vendors, which we originally were working with T2 and IPS, um, and we're fully integrating with IPS.

So um IPS is going to be taking over our citations in our enforcement.

Um currently they just do our paid parking system.

Um so with that um we'll be able to integrate a customer interface portal, if you would like to call it, um, that folks can get online and pay a ticket, but they can also appeal a ticket.

So there's language now that's changing that um someone can still go to the parking enforcement window to pay or appeal ticket, or they can mail in an appeals process, and now there's language in there that allows them to also appeal a citation through this online interface.

On top of the changes within that section, originally there was two steps to appeal a citation.

Um the first step uh in the original uh ordinance was that they would uh in writing 14 days or within 14 days of citation, um they would give in writing to parking enforcement that they would like to appeal their citation.

Um and then if they were not satisfied with the outcome of step one, they then would have a written request to the town manager um to uh review that uh conclusion of step one, the appeal process.

The new process now is going to be um still kind of the same step as one, but adding that you'll be able to add that appeal online.

Um step two is going to be changing the step two process is going to be that uh you would be able to appeal in writing to the police chief or her design and a process go through that, and then we're adding a step three to this process that if they're still data dissatisfied with the uh outcome of step one or two, they then would um request for a hearing with the town manager on that appeal process.

Um the next amendment that we're looking at in this ordinance ordinance is sex section 16-111, which is uh parking operations.

Um free parking we talked about in June 17th meeting.

Um recall when we talked about this, there was some conversation about when those 12 days would fall.

You all agreed to have free parking for 12 days, but it was never really decided what days those will be.

So, as staff, we recommended um the changes and um those days will be, and I have it right here, and I apologize.

Where are you?

Shall I read them?

Yes, sorry.

I lost in my section here.

The first and second weekends in December, and the seven days leading up to Christmas Day.

That is correct.

And so there's been language that would be added to the holiday schedule for those 12 days.

When we were looking through this ordinance, we found language that should have been changed from a previous ordinance change back when we went from the single poll to the zone configuration, which had time restrictions in some of the parking lots.

And so you'll see an amendment to that to coordinate with our current policies we have.

Lastly, I just want to kind of touch base on the new transition from our T2 enforcement and permit to our IPS.

Previously I talked to you all about this.

This is going to give us a great more uh layout of data on our citations and permits that we're selling and collecting.

Um and so the town has moved forward with this process and currently town staff is working with IPS on building uh the system out, and hopefully we'll have it fully fully operational by mid-November.

Um and so a big part of this is trying to streamline our services and make it easier for customers to you know not have to make it down to the town hall to pay a ticket or come collect a ticket or obtain a permit.

And so um Seth actually has a couple short videos, they're very short.

They're just going to give a quick glimpse on what this portal is going to look like.

Um and so I'm gonna he's gonna play that video for us all, and I'm gonna try to go along with it just to describe what you're seeing on the screen.

And so um when you go online, you'll be able to log in.

There'll be a link to this right on our website page.

You'll be able to look up the permits you're looking for.

You then will put in your user information, which is just going to be your name uh and email address.

Um, and then from here, I think they're still continuing.

There's different ways that you can either do like a single individual or like a group uh permit, and then you would put in your vehicle information.

So fast.

It was a California license link.

Yeah.

Sorry.

And then you'll get an approval once you're done with this, you'll pay for your permit.

You'll be an email sent to you with an approval, and then from there you also have to create an account.

When you've only had to create an account once, and from that point on, you'll be able to manage your permits uh for the foreseeable future.

And that's the pretty much the that video there.

This is going to allow us also to track information once we have all these permits.

Currently, the way we do it, you come purchase a permit, you get a hanger, and that's really we're collecting a small form, it's not put into a system.

So when you're asking us for information on permits, it's hard for us to generate any of that data.

So now with this all, if same thing if you go down and see Carol for a parking permit, she's doing this same process you're seeing online in a in the same database.

And so we'll be able to collect all this data for how many permits we're really selling and where they are, and really be able to portray that information to the select board when they're interested in that information.

We'll go to the citation one.

So same with the permit.

Uh, you'll be able to pay tickets online now, which you could, but uh this will make it a little more easier and also be able to allow us to collect uh data on this information.

Um for this, I believe you have the option to one, either just pay without creating account or create an account.

And so you can log on, you can search your citation by the number that's on your ticket.

It then will pull it up.

The great thing I like about this is it's going to pull the actual ticket up.

It also will allow our parking enforcement to take photos of this the issue that they wrote the ticket for, which then will help an individual see what the citation was written for.

Um you can also go back and search uh previous citations or unpaid citations.

So if you have a history of citation, you go back and look.

And then the other option that we talked about is you can contest a citation.

So when you go on, you can contest this.

It's going to go directly to Jeremy and Carol, and then that process will begin.

There's also integrated in this is a fact questionnaire.

So if you have questions, you can go on there and a chat bot for any questions if someone is confused about how to use the system.

So it's just another way in our you know tool belt for customers and us to for individuals to pay citations.

Um doesn't mean that you still can't do it the same way we've been doing it for years on years.

You can still go to park enforcement and pay for a citation or collect a permit, or you can do it by mail like we have been as well.

The only difference is Carol is just putting this information into that database, so then we'll have all that data.

So the conclusion basically is we're continuing to try to innervate our parking system, be you know financially responsible, and uh create a parking system that both businesses and customers enjoy and like to use.

And so with that is the conclusion of our first reading of the parking parking changes.

That's great, Darren.

Thank you.

Darren, Jeremy, thank you very much.

Um I just have well, I'll open it up to my colleagues.

Who has comments?

Go ahead.

Just really appreciate all the work that you've done on the system and you have taken feedback from the public from Select Board and incorporated it.

Um just looking at the signage around, I'm seeing a lot more signs that are posted.

Um it's it looks like it's gonna be I I know there's a time to adapt to changes.

Um but there's you have the different codes for different zones.

Um so I just really appreciate all of the the fact that you've iterated and been in working to improve the system, make it easier for people who are most affected by it, the people who are parking.

Um and one comment I heard from a member uh a couple members of the public is they would love to see some signage about uh the cost of parking in the transportation center that people haven't realized that it's actually less expensive to park there, and so if it's feasible to put in some sign, you know, curious if it would be feasible to put up some signs like um around you know, like uh might say economy parking or something like that, letting people know about both hourly parking, but also that you can get um if there are permits, if permits are less expensive for the um transportation center.

Um I also really appreciate it.

It's really professional.

It's very like modern age.

I feel like it's a new dawn for Brattleboro.

Um I looked at the town website while you're describing it and I saw where those videos are located.

So I can tell my friends and neighbors.

Um I also wonder are our officers who are on the street like our brat team, if somebody walked up to them and said, Hey, I have a question about parking.

But would they have the answer in terms of zone or how it works or like hey, do you have a smartphone?

You can go on the town website, there's a little video.

Just wondering, yes, they should hopefully have that information available, yes.

Okay, cool.

I'm like one of those annoying people when I visit a place, they'll be like, oh, there's a police officer.

Good.

Thank you question.

So that's good to know.

Oscar?

Yes, thank you both.

Um just quick question for the board.

Um, are we good with these being the 12 days?

No, that we're writing them into the ordin ordinance.

I mean, they seem all right to me, but I just wanted to check in because we never really went through it.

Darren, did you work with the DBA in the chamber on those dates?

Um we did not work with the DBA on this.

Um they you all had conversation kind of with the DBA that back at that last meeting.

Um so these were kind of dates that we took from both sides to try to create kind of an even split between the two decisions.

Well, I'm okay with them.

Um let's ask our our shop owner.

All right, I I remembered sort of having a conversation and kind of boiling them down to those being the better days.

Yeah.

For free parking.

And and um so the two days on the weekends that's Saturday and Sunday.

And then I was wondering if there were any changes in this fee schedule.

I feel like I mean I've already forgotten, even though it was yesterday, but I feel like I parked in the parking garage and it was sixty cents an hour.

So I was just wondering if there are intentional changes in here or maybe it should.

There should be no fee changes.

Um definitely can look at that.

I know sometimes when you if you're paying at a kiosk or on your phone and you're at a certain hour in the day, it may tweak it a little bit, but uh we can definitely look into it, but no.

There should be no fee changes in this ordinance change.

Uh schedule uh fee schedule change doesn't have to be an ordinance change, it's just voted on uh from the select board.

So that is that why there's nothing in here about fee changes.

Okay.

Yeah, so this probably isn't the time, but when we do well, at some point in this process, I do still want to kick around the idea of um adjusting these a little bit based on some of the usage numbers we saw before, like maybe Harmony and I think High Grove go up five cents and the transportation center goes down five.

I just think it's worth messing around with.

And I also am for some reason stuck on the idea in a good way of the downtown economy parking signs or something like that.

I feel like I see that when I go to other towns.

You know, you go to Northampton and you see signs pointing you to the big parking garage.

And I was on Elliott Street today, someone was very upset about how expensive parking was and how expensive it was for his customers, and he didn't know until I told him then that it's a third the price in the parking garage.

So and he was very happy to learn it.

So you know, six or eight signs around town pointing there could be helpful.

I think um your comments and Isaac's comments are uh a little bit at odds because if you posted if you had a sign made for this year's and then next year changes the fees, I think it would probably be better.

I mean, you could say economy parking in the garage, but then I think there should be something that leads you to the website or the app where the rates are posted so that we don't have to make up a new sign every year.

I think that makes sense to me.

We could talk about that more.

But anyone were you finished?

Yes, John?

Um I just wanted to get clarification from Oscar.

Are you uh were you looking for options on some of the different lots to come back at a second reading or or were you?

Well, I don't know when during this process, when would be the right time to talk about changes to the fee schedule?

I think now would be really helpful, and then they could bring something back that um was in line like where the board is thinking for that.

Well, did we want like a how much data did we want before I mean you're talking about a data-driven change, right?

So we need some time for that, right?

Sure.

Yeah, and yeah, certainly don't think to be.

Like a year from now.

Oh maybe.

I don't know.

We we saw usage data, or maybe that was just me talking to you, John.

But um I think we could table the fee part of it for now and we need to.

Um honestly, just just because like this this whole transition has been not as smooth as I think we'd like.

And now as as it's just starting to smooth out to change it again, I think is just asking.

It's all smoothing out as the roads are being paved.

Exactly.

It's all kind of gelling.

Yeah.

Did you have anything else you'd like to say, Peter?

No, I'm good with this.

I thank you for all the work.

Appreciate it, appreciate the additional signage as well.

I've been seeing it as well.

I think it's becoming a better system.

So thank you for that.

And and I note that uh a lot of people were concerned that changes were coming in like November, and here we are again, and there's changes coming and in October.

Um, but these are all changes that are smoothing out the rough edges.

They're more like additions, right?

So the still the same practice that we're in now with the same citation and permit is still available.

We're just giving us a new option that would help be beneficial to some.

So they're not huge changes.

I think the big change that we saw with the zone configuration configuration is the hopefully the last big parking change we'll see for a while.

So wonderful.

Well, I the board appreciates it.

We all appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Is there anything else?

Oh, we have Gary.

Well, we have people.

Let's go with Gary first.

And then Heidi.

Well, you well, you know what?

Dan just answered my question, because I was always wondering we litch in the matrix or our disruption in the system or something happens.

What backup do you have to collect those fees as well?

I mean, during even during this weather, your internet could be disrupted anything.

Um in that type of way.

Um what what other method did you mention, Dan?

I guess.

Um is there for people if there is an issue of going online and trying to connect to the internet downtown, which could be very exhausting.

Um what would you think that would be so you're not losing that revenue?

Darren?

Yeah.

So the uh the same policies we have now or will be still in place.

If like we're talking about citations, uh uh someone who has gotten a ticket can still go to the parking enforcement window to pay that ticket, they can still mail in that ticket and pay.

Um and now with the addition, they'll be able to go on to this online portal.

And and I sorry, I'm going to rephrase myself a little bit.

There has always been an online paid citation section that you can pay your ticket.

Really the addition is that you can appeal it online now.

So um it's we're really just adding the those old being able to do, you know, if you keep uh internet's down, you can still come to the parking window and pay your citation.

Oh, okay.

I guess the last question is they from out of state can't make it back.

Is there another option that they can appeal?

I don't really like a Zoom or something like that and speak into reference to that.

Is that something because I've had issues like that in Rhode Island, so for my experience, sometimes you can't travel back there.

Is that an option or something that can be implemented or sometime in the year 2030, maybe?

I don't know.

Go ahead.

Uh for the appeal process, we've done it uh both ways so far.

So we've had some appeal processes that have made it to us that we've done online and uh we've also had the ones in person.

So we've based it on how best we could serve the person that was that uh put in the appeal.

That sounds great.

Right, that makes sense if you really want to get into Jamaica back to Brad.

Thank you.

Heidi.

At the risk of sell Heidi Fisher District 7.

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, I will say I want to share a little experience I had the other day.

I finally downloaded the app thinking, yay, I'm gonna move into the 21st century here.

I s parked in a space on Grove Street to run because I needed to run in and mail something at at the post office.

I literally sat there for ten minutes, and I am not an idiot, and I'm not the techiest person, but I can use apps.

I could not find how you pay on the app for parking.

To the point at which I got so frustrated, I said, forget this.

I ran inside.

It took me less time to mail my package and leave than it did sitting there for ten or twelve minutes, and I'm not exaggerating for the time.

And I was not alone, and the person I was with could not figure it out either of how to pay to park there for five minutes to run into the post.

Well, heidi.

I'm sure you don't want to hear that there's fifteen minute parking in front of the post office.

Which would have given you a three whole minutes to run in.

But the point being that I'm not far into using apps and stuff, and I could not figure out how to use the app.

Well, maybe we can get Seth maybe he's already made a little video tutorial.

I mean, I thought could there be a tutorial or if someone's willing to just give me a tutorial, I'd be happy to appreciate it.

I can do that for you.

Great.

I've got to I would love that.

And I will say that uh a lot of people find the texting uh really uh an easy way to do it.

So look at look at that option as well, folks, if if you're looking for an easy way to to do it.

Dick first and then no.

One I do travel a little bit and uh I do find that uh the rates in Brattleboro are probably the cheapest of anywhere that I go and park.

Two, can you tell me why um we can't transfer from zone to zone after we pay for parking?

And we should have that ability.

So if I if I'm down on Flat Street and I paid for an hour of parking and I go up the other end of Main Street, I'm in a different zone, and I still have 40 minutes left on my hour, I have to go out and buy more parking.

That seems like uh it shouldn't.

Yeah, we should be able to transfer zones.

Uh and not get a parking ticket.

Let's ask Darren what he says about that.

Yeah, I guess what has changed?

When there were single meter polls, you couldn't pay at the meter and go to a different parking space.

I believe also this conversation was had when we first transitioned from single polls, um, right?

I mean, if we wanted to have that, we would just have the town of Brahro as one big zone and we just have one rate and everyone pays.

And then we went into big discussion about this back way when Patrick Morland was still here, um, about that, and it was determined that we wanted different zones because some zones were priority and we wanted more turnover, and so there's different hour rates and and or m hour limits and then different rates.

So that is why those zones were configured and you know, and that's why you know nothing's changed from us being a have having single meter polls.

You couldn't do it back then, still can't do it now.

I believe those conversations we had and the select board wanted this layout, and so yeah, that's why Darren.

Yeah, so I guess we all have to be more judicious about where we park and for how long.

No.

Well, given the technology that we have, we shouldn't be able to do that.

I can understand the polls.

Yeah, frankly trying to.

Right, but the same system was incorporated so that we can have different charges in different zones.

No.

Uh no, ma'am, district eight.

Um only just because I was reminded by Heidi's comment.

I use a lot of apps.

I have used that app.

I've on two occasions got in tickets because one time I updated my payment method and it didn't start my session.

Uh and the second time I paid, I walked away from my car and I came back, I had a ticket, and then on the app it said I started it like like five literally like five minutes later than I had, and that was on Main Street.

So it's all to say that I think to some extent there is some validity in the frustration with the the tech issues of the app.

Definitely.

And I think also that those are concerns that might be part of any appeal process.

Yeah, I I have been lazy on that front because I don't know how to prove it when it's like I did this thing on my phone, and I then my phone said I didn't do it.

So that's part of my issue, but um just to add another voice, and I don't feel intimidated by the app, but I did still have those experiences.

It's nice to hear that a young person is frustrated by the app as well.

Madam Chair, I just want to add as well, um uh you may have seen them.

We talked about this at our last meeting.

We're actually adding kiosk.

Um, and so there actually was two that are put in place.

They should be operational first week or second week of October, but you'll see those one is on Main Street um by the key bank area, and another one got added on Elliott Street.

Um, and the plan is to purchase two more um and add more.

So we are slowly adding kiosk for the folks that uh don't like the app and just want to pay out of kiosk.

So we are doing that, we're in the process of that.

So you'll see more kiosk in the future, which will help you pay there as well.

Great.

Yes, sir.

Bill Harvey District 8, and as long as it's a discussion forum.

What I would like to see is I would like to see the parking garage, Elliott Street, um, flat street into a gated garage where you have a gate going in, a gate coming out.

If it was monitored by one person, was one person could control both gates.

Um I think that would be very, very helpful because the way we have it now, you pay for a set amount of time.

And if you run out of Jean's barbershop and go put more money in your meter, you lose your spot.

And some people go downtown and they want to talk with people and to make a sale, and suddenly you realize, oh crap, I've got to go pay more money to my meter, and the whole thing is broken up.

If you had a parking garage where it was gated and you paid for the amount of time you were there, regardless of how long that was, it would really help.

And I'd also like to see that for safety reasons.

I think if you had a person there at a gate and you had a monitor, it would really resolve a lot of the issues people have parking in that particular garage.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Those are good suggestions.

Do you want to comment on that?

Yes, I just wanted to say that I was at Jean's today, and that was where I had my conversation about parking being too aggressive.

So Gary, you really need to weigh in again.

Well, like most department stores, you get a ticket when you go through the gate, it rises up the time you went in and when you leave out, you give them that ticket and you pay.

Just the amount of time you're there, though, whereas the way we're paying now, it's a set amount of time.

We put our card in, you put put in for how long you want to be there, the time runs out.

If you're in a parking garage, you can be there as long as you're shopping, and you won't get a ticket, you simply pay the full amount when you leave.

Okay, gentlemen.

This is the process that we have, and it's you know, requires user input, and so everyone will have to decide how long they think they're gonna be in the parking space, because we're not gonna hire another person that we can't afford in our municipal government to you know provide that service for us.

And so everyone will have to decide how long they think they're going to be in the parking space, because we're not going to hire another person that we can't afford in our municipal government to, you know, provide that service for us.

It's a nice suggestion, and we'll keep it on our list of suggestions, but also the app will allow you to extend your parking right from genes.

It'll work anywhere, but Gene seems to be there.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Uh shopping, yeah.

You could always go on your app and send your stay.

We're losing our focus here.

I'm gonna call us all back.

Are there any additional comments on the parking?

Right over here.

Yes.

I really appreciate that Heidi and Nell shared their challenges with the parking app.

Um and I really appreciate that Peter has offered to give a little tutorial to Heidi.

Um, but you really shouldn't have to come to a select board meeting in order to be able to use our parking system.

And so I'm glad to hear there are more kiosks that are going up.

And I think something else that we've talked about is just generally more signage, which you've already put up around the zones.

But I could imagine you know, a few signs pointing to the nearest kiosk could also probably be cheaper than five more kiosks or ten more kiosks, um, and might do the trick for just making it really clear where you need to go if you're not up for using the app or it's not working for you.

Thanks.

All right.

Hi, I'd love to say one thing.

And I appreciate Seth, if you're willing to do, I know this is John's I mean, your admin, but I mean your town manager, but putting a tutorial on the website is a great idea.

I'd love it if Peter could do a like a YouTube demo.

Seth is being interrogated.

Um so there was a parking video that was produced, and I do need to update it with the new zone information.

So the current video that exists is slightly outdated because of that.

So that is forthcoming, and I have to adjust all the the zone ones and all of that in the footage and where I actually say it in the video.

We just keep Seth too long at these meetings.

All right.

Let me thank Jeremy and Darren very much for all their hard work and for their presentation this evening.

It's much appreciated.

And and so no motion is needed tonight, and we'll come back with a second reading uh next meeting.

So thanks.

All right.

Town charter process and warning plan.

John?

Um I guess I guess I got this one.

So the charter changes are in the air, and uh the charter, as you know, the charter revision commission's been working since 2023 on revising the town charter.

And I guess so they met with you, I think in July, and then they came in August, and you were all talking about the idea of possibly doing away with representative town meeting and instead uh conducting a form of open town meeting.

Umce those discussions happened, as you know, there have been two petitions that have been filed by uh members of the public, uh petition advocating for the use of Australian ballot instead of representative town meeting and a petition advocating for an open town meeting.

And so both of those petitions have now been certified, and you talked about those at your September 9th meeting.

In fact, you had an extensive discussion on how to proceed with the proposed charter changes and uh the board wanted to revisit this issue.

Uh staff took away a sense uh from your last meeting that of uh really uh that you were sort of leaning towards tackling the whole issue in March rather than doing something in November.

Um to that end, we developed uh a schedule that's in the memo uh uh in your packet with a charter petition warning plan that you could consider using uh which hits the right notification requirements and um would warn the adequate number of public hearings that you're required to have on a charter petition.

And uh essentially that is that the petitioners would have to file the charter language with the town clerk by December 19th so that it could be incorporated into your warnings.

Um the first warning would be uh uh done uh at your December 30th meeting, or no, it would have to be done at a special meeting on December 30th.

Uh the second uh the warning for a second public hearing could be done at your January 6th regular meeting.

And then you are going to have to you would have to do a special meeting to warn the ballot on January 27th.

The town could then hold the first public hearing on January 29th, which would be at least 30 days before the election.

And a the second public hearing could be held on February 5th, which would be no later than 10 days after the first public hearing, and then the election would be on March 3rd.

And so that was just one idea, one way we could tackle this, uh, but totally open to whatever you might suggest.

We're we have the town attorney here to talk about his recommendations and also answer any questions that you have, and happy to get into this.

Great.

Um let me first have a tally of board members.

Are board members um are there any board members who are contemplating a November ballot?

We got one.

Would you like to discuss that?

Well, you know, I mean, just in the simplistic uh nature of it and being able to kind of roll it out, I was the more and more I think the the research that I've done and and with uh the town attorney's uh suggestion um just being able to message out the one thing um RTM up or down uh seemed like the easiest, easiest way to go.

I'm I'm outnumbered in that.

I just wanted to basically say that I think that would have been the easiest way to go from what I'm hearing uh from people who are talking to me, is that they feel like RTM has run its course and are feeling better about a chance of being able to uh show up and have their voice heard, and if we could do that in March as opposed to RTM, that would be their desire.

Personally speaking, also I I lean that way as well on on that particular issue.

Um but if it's got to wait till March, it's got to wait till March.

All right.

Well, let's let's hear from Bob and Hannah.

Um, I'm somewhat confused by what you did under consent agenda with accepting the petition.

And then in this, it talks about in accepting and do voting on this in consent agenda.

This talks about the vote being taken on March 3rd.

So if you go to consent agenda and read the note, you will see that you've already made a decision to have a vote on March 3rd on the petition that you received, so maybe somebody can clarify that.

The petitions, as we discussed in the last discussion, have to be on town meeting day election.

What we were originally contemplating in November was RTM yes or no.

Isn't that right, Bob?

Right.

So that came in by petition and that's been accepted, that has to be at your next annual meeting or primary or general election.

So there's no general election this year, so the next one would be the annual uh town meeting March 3rd, voting day, Tuesday.

Um that takes care of that.

John's uh outline of all of the meetings and when those need to be warned is all correct.

Uh with regard to the issue of having a vote on whether or not to rescind representative town meeting, the town has to have a vote on that in order to rescind, because the law says that once you have representative town meeting, you continue that until there's a vote uh to to rescind that.

Originally, and and I saw the the leaning at the last uh meeting, uh, and my recommendation was to that's voting on whether or not to rescind RTM.

When you get with these petitions, deal with open town meeting versus Australian ballot, so deal with one issue in November, deal with the other issues in March.

It's not illegal to do it all in March, but if you if the board's inclination is to not have the November meeting on whether or not to rescind representative town meeting, then it would be our recommendation that the select board warn as part of the annual town meeting election day, March 3rd, uh an article on whether or not to rescind representative town meeting.

You'll probably say, why do that when it's already in one of the petitions?

The reason for that is that the petitions are both for charter changes.

Those will not take effect until the legislature approves them.

If you warn that article on whether to rescind, and so you're going to do all of these on the March 3rd election, then you would be making a decision that doesn't require the legislature to approve.

And so if representative town meeting uh is rescinded in March based on uh an article that you would put there, then you would warn a special open town meeting, you'd essentially cancel representative town meeting, warn a special uh town meeting, and have that probably sometime in April.

But all of that would enable you to act in accordance with the wishes of the town of Brattleboro voters as compared to waiting for the legislature uh to act on that.

So I think that works.

So we've had conversations in in trying, if you want to put it all that it's all going to be decided in in March, we think that would be the best way to do it.

So for purposes of your tonight's decision of whether to warn a meeting in November, uh we can certainly work and staff can work uh with doing it all in uh March.

I just have a couple of questions.

Um I really don't like the legislators um deciding our fate.

And um I wondered just in the same way that you're recommending that we ha have our own article on the ballot to say RTM yes or no, can we also have on a select board article that says Australian ballot and a select board like can we have an article that says Australian ballot open town meeting?

And it be not a charter change, but effective immediately, and then the results of the petitions can go to the legislature, but we'll have our vote in the meantime.

We talked about that, and the consensus was that adds such a level of confusion.

I think the technical answer is yes, as to you could warn a vote on whether well you could do that after you have voted to rescind representative town meeting.

So if you had an article that said in the event that representative town meeting is rescinded, then you're at open town meeting by default in the statutes.

And then having a vote on whether or not to employ the Australian ballot system is a vote that's allowed by statute to take place.

The problem there is that you've got petitioned articles that essentially cover the same material, but the petitioned articles are for charter changes and require legislative approval.

So I think technically the answer is yes, but then people are gonna be like, why am I voting uh twice on this?

So our conversation from a couple weeks ago was how to make it less confusing.

We thought that that uh may make it more confusing to try to do that.

Did you want to add anything, Hannah?

The only thing I'll add is that there was a lot of discussion last week about voting twice on this discontinuance article and this proposal would avoid that.

And is there some way that the legislature, I mean, does the actual vote count on the petition on the petition ballots have an impact on how the legislature will respond to the charter changes?

The uh I can't speak for how the legislature is going to respond to it.

No, of course.

We would hope uh that on the petitions one is voted yes and one is voted no.

Then that is going to send a wonderful confusing message to the legislators and who knows what they're going to do with it.

So the gentleman who I don't see here tonight but from the last meeting said make sure if you're voting yes on one that you vote no on the other that was pretty good advice.

Yeah I think that'll be a matter of educating people on the cause and effect of how you would vote on each article and that was something that was brought up last time too and putting this off until March gives a lot of time to make that very clear.

I agree.

But I think it's important for the public to understand that this has to go up to the legislature and if we could give the legislature as much guidance as to what the voters wanted I think that would be helpful.

Yeah comments Oscar Yeah so I want to talk about the option that I think was most in the room last meeting which was do it all in March but just put the two petitions on there not adding a select board placed statutory remove RTM article which would mean that whatever decision was made it goes to the legislature it doesn't take effect right away I know Liz you asked if any of us were contemplating November I have contemplated and talked to a bunch of people I'm leaning pretty hard in favor of March one of the reasons I don't love the idea of a vote in March that determines what kind of town meeting we have like a month after that so Anna you look sad?

No sorry I just I I just to again to be clear yes it would affect that vote but neither of the petitions would go into effect that year.

But if we do what you guys just proposed the RTM vote would be binding on March 3rd right?

Yes so if it was voted to remove RTM we would have an open town meeting and if it was voted to keep RTM we would have an RTM that year in 26.

That's that's the thing that I don't love yes.

Oh so you don't have to decide that tonight you have to you would have to decide that before um warning the ballot January 27 yeah um unless you wanted to do some components of that in November you could decide to proceed with this plan and then address that issue in January.

That's true.

I I'm happy to speak to why we are suggesting adding that select board vote.

As Bob said otherwise everything goes to legislature as a charter change and they can basically do whatever they want to the proposed charter language, decide what to move forward on what not to move forward on but we would basically be in this sort of purgatory for lack of a better word until they make a decision and that decision could come in conceivably like you know before the 2027 meeting and you would then have to immediately say over when that gets approved by the legislature and it it's it's just provides you more certainty in that you know right away whether or not RTM is discontinued and rather than waiting for the legislature to act on the charter changes.

That's that gives the voters the say at least this initial part rather than the legislature.

I just personally I have no worries that the legislature is going to disregard if there's a vote yes discontinue RTM and yes to one of the two things I expect the legislature will amend our charter in the way we ask I I'm not sure how concerned I am about some sort of legislative revolt against the decision we make.

And I'm worried about I don't know I think it I'm trying to strip away layers of things and I feel like this adds at least half a layer of complexity or possible confusion and I think it's almost a feature that if we do it if we just put the petitions on in March then we're just we're just doing exactly what we have to do which is put the petitions on in March.

We get complete answers to everything, and I think it's almost a feature that we know we'll have RTM in March, and we're not sort of guessing and trying to prepare for two outcomes.

And final thought before I hand it off is that I've seen well, no, I'll I'll leave it there.

Thank you, Oscar.

Isaac.

Yeah, and then it looks like Amanda also has something to say.

I picked you.

Yeah, I know.

I just wanted to make sure you knew she's I know she's over there as well.

So uh I would want to ask if we could move forward with the recommendation of the town manager, which is to vote on what's proposed here, and then discuss Oscar's concerns and the recommendation of the town attorneys at some point before January.

Um you would like to make a motion.

I would.

Why don't you?

Um but I'd like to hear what a colleague has to say.

Absolutely.

We're just uh making the motion, Isaac.

My motion is to direct staff to implement the charter petition warning plan as presented.

And do you have any anything else you'd like to add to your discussion before I go to one of your our colleagues?

That I I think we should come back and consider this question, this possibility of adding a third article on that um March third town meeting ballot.

Um that the town attorneys have suggested.

Thank you.

Amanda.

Um I guess I just wanted to say I'm I glad you made a motion.

Um I also wanted to just confirm with Bob and Hannah that so there will be RTM elections on this same ballot in March, correct?

So people will foreseeably be doing their just a regular uh depend.

Okay, so people are also gonna be running for RTM.

Yes.

Even if we choose even if not we, the voters of Bratleboro choose to terminate RTM.

That's correct.

That that was one of the reasons that I spoke to last time about why I thought November made more sense, because then you would if the vote were to dispense with RTM, you wouldn't have to do all of that.

And and there's about 15 new open spots.

So we're not talking the level of concern that we had last year.

Yeah.

Um and I just um wanna say that in discussions, you know, with the charter uh at the last meeting, and you know the way that the charter is written now, it assumes RTM is abandoned or rescinded.

I forget what the word you use.

Discontinued.

Discontinued.

Thank you, Hannah.

But we need, you know, the voters of Bratterboro to weigh in.

And and I think that the the way that you suggest allows for, you know, the most democracy.

And I think uh, you know, we're we're contemplating making a very large change in our town government, and having that ballot as you suggest in March allows for the public to weigh in and on four and and having the ballot initiatives does as well.

So I think we really need all three items on the ballot, and um we need the most public, the most democracy we can get um before we go ahead.

Yes, Oscar.

Just to confirm and say out loud the decision we would be making if we vote yes on this motion is that we will be ruling out the November option.

So we'll leave open the two March open options, but we'll be ruling out the November option with this vote, possibly.

Yes, that's correct.

Other members, yes, there are.

I see Dick and I see Heidi.

Dick, you go first.

I strongly encourage you to vote this motion down.

It's really disappointing to me that you're afraid to have an election in November to find out if we should have RTM.

Uh it would actually what Liz talked about a few minutes ago when she asked if we could have two questions on from the board.

If you actually had the question in November to vote whether we wanted to have uh open town meeting or not, and then you could if you have that vote, and if the vote is we don't want to have uh town meeting anymore, then your other question could be put on the ballot for March 3rd.

That way it would be less confusing than have both of them, as Bob said, uh to have them both on the March 3rd uh ballot.

But I'm really confused as to why you won't uh vote to have that arbitrary question in November, which would settle a lot of issues for people in town uh about this election.

And uh, you know, fish would like to see that, and and I'm confused as to why you don't want to see it, because it would settle a big part of what's been going on in our town for a while.

And if people were happy with RTM, this would all be moot and we'd be talking about something else at this point.

But people aren't happy about it.

But you seem to the majority of you seem to want to delay this process, where I believe in having this vote in November would really help this process move along and clarify a lot of the issues that we that you seem to be talking about.

Well for myself, uh I've thought both sides of this issue, and I'm just landed on the side of um it's a short time frame between now and November 3rd.

Um it's confusing to have a separate election just a couple months later on the second part of it.

And so I would I'm erring on the side of more voters on election day.

Heidi.

Heidi Fisher.

My question was partially answered, I think, by what you said previously, Elizabeth, but I still have a question about um where's my head?

Okay, my understanding is that if this is doesn't all happen till March, then whatever decision is made affects what the Charter Committee has done because they've written their changes with the assumption that we're moving away from um RTM.

But if it changes then to no, we're gonna go with Australian ballot, does that delay the process of getting the charter uh sent to the yes state because it's gotta be redone again?

Yes.

No.

Yeah, would you like us to clarify that?

So the petition is for a charter change, so that would require a new charter based on that petitioned language, separate from the work that the charter committee is doing, which is not on the table at this time.

Oh okay yes, but Hannah, if I from what I understand Heidi's question is, the outcome of the March election would further modify or has the potential to further modify the Charter Commission's work and has the potential to delay the Charter Commission's work to not be on the March election, but to be either in a primary or the November election next year.

I as a member of the Charter Committee, I will I'm just want to make it clear.

I'm speaking as myself, as hasn't been discussed.

We haven't had a meeting since the last time we were here.

But because of the uncertainty and these other charters, we have basically put a hold on all of our work.

If another charter change is approved by the voters, it still has to get approved by the legislature, and whether or not the charter committee waits until the end of that process is a discussion we would have to have after, but that's not something that happens at this point.

Go ahead.

So um one thing that the attorneys told me today, which I hadn't realized, but now it made it a little more clear was that because these are charter petitions and the petitioners will provide language for charter changes.

If one or both of those are approved, they automatically get sent to the legislature.

There's no further work of the charter commission or anything like that except as potentially a subsequent effort down the line after maybe the legislature moves on the charter petitions to do all the changes that the charter commission has been talking about or different things, you know, cleaning up the school board and all that, unless the petitioners they they can't even include a lot of the language that's irrelevant to what was in their charter petition.

Am I getting that right?

Or is so the answer to your question, Heidi, is yes, it does delay.

Yeah.

So and it just to un for clarification, it leaves us at the spot of the defaulting to open meeting in that time lag of waiting to hear from the legislature.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Well, only if only if only if we have only if we have a uh additional article on the ballot that says RTM yes or no.

So can I can I weigh in here?

I'm I'm I'm just gonna I'm gonna make my push for for a November vote.

Um as as somebody who has spent pretty much a majority of my life trying to message out things and get people to understand them, um, understanding how confusing this particular topic is, and it is it is really confusing to a lot of people.

I know that I'm I've struggled, I've literally called um outside sources to make sure that as it was explained to me as how it would happen.

Um if you take this to a November vote up or down and it and it passes, we know what we're doing in March.

If it doesn't pass, we know what we're doing in March.

So either either way, we know what we're doing in March.

It's simple, it's one thing, yes or no.

You can put the other two measures uh on the ballot, then you have to message that out.

If you like this one, don't vote for that one.

If you like that one, don't vote for the other one.

Um and uh and some explaining doing it to me, just on a messaging platform to get um mom-pa voter out there to understand what they're voting for when they step in, because a lot of times these things are written in a very confusing manner, and I want to make sure that we are leading with our with our best foot forward.

If we open this thing up to a November vote, and it goes it goes down, and then people realize, well, I wanted RTM to go away, why do we still have it?

We get a second bite at the Apple in March when we can add it on there as well.

So I mean, my I'm I'm not gonna support a March vote today.

I'm just not.

I think going um doing it in November, um, letting our people go, and and I understand voter turnout, that's there's virtually nothing, this less people could show up in March than in November, um, just because it's more confusing.

So my I'm I'm not gonna support a a a March vote.

I'll go along with it if that's if that's the will of the board, but I I need to I need to make clear that I am pushing for a vote in November up and down for RTM.

Amanda.

I'd love to respond to Dick's question and also what Peter just said.

Um do you have concerns that the voter turnout will be small in November because it's an isolated sort of special election where there aren't any other things on the ballot?

Well, do you have any concerns?

The day that we have uh selected for this vote, I believe if you were to open up your phone would say election day.

Right.

So do I have concerns?

I have concerns overall with voter turnout, even in bigger elections.

All right, I don't I don't feel like enough people do their civic duty of going out and picking the people who run our towns, our facilities, our countries uh in a voting situation.

So I have an overall concern.

Uh do I have an overall concern for this?

I think it's an easy enough thing that people can decide on.

It's um it you get to choose whether you you want open town meeting or you want RTM town meeting to happen in March.

That does not have to go in front of uh in in front of our lawmakers for decision, it we just default to that, then we move forward.

Then I'm understanding that in March we would make that charter uh decision a little bit more formally with a vote, and then that would have to be what goes to our legislature.

Am I understanding that correctly?

The petitions have to go on for the right, they have to go on in March.

So we at some point in time we need to get the legislature involved either way.

But the messaging behind behind the vote in November is easy, and then by making that easy, we can either decide if we want to take a if it didn't go the way our constituents wanted it to go, we could put it back on in the March so we get two shots at the same thing.

Um, but then it's more of a charter uh a charter thing.

So all I'm saying is November, it's easy.

March becomes really, really difficult to explain.

Uh board members?

Osber.

Yes.

Um, to reply to Dick with all good humor, I'm not afraid to put it on the ballot in November.

I actually I don't think it's some disaster, I don't think it's the most consequential decision in the world if it's November or if it's March.

But I've gotten a lot of feedback about this, and the overwhelming response has been people asking to put it on in March.

You feel strongly about November, but there are people who feel strongly about the opposite.

And what has been sort of compelling to me as someone who doesn't really have a dog in this fight is that feedback has been coming pretty equally from all quarters in terms of what people want for the actual form of government.

I have heard from all three groups people saying March makes sense.

Um the voter turnout is one reason.

The simplicity of a single vote is another reason.

And just I don't know.

I I see what you're saying, Peter.

I also think in some ways I've heard the argument that it's easier if it's just one vote, because then you write your op-ed and you say, I support RTM, so vote no on getting rid of RTM and you're done.

And oh I want open town meetings, so vote yes on one and no on two.

Um I think that's doable.

And I think we heard feedback and arguments last time that there's a downside to the gap also, that you have this big push and debate in November about town meeting, you have the vote, and then you have to start the whole thing back up again for March.

So I'm uh I think March makes sense for me.

I it's not going to be some town wide tragedy if we do it in November.

I think your arguments make sense, but I'm I'm on March at the moment.

All right, are we ready for the public?

Millicent Thank you.

Millicent Cooley Um District is approved District 9.

Um a little confused by this too.

I'm trying to understand if we go through with the scenario for March, what the ballot itself would look like, would be would the ballot say all three things on that ballot?

John.

Um and so it would say do you want to get rid of RTM?

You know, do you want to rescind RTM?

Yes, no.

Um if you want to rescind RT, if if um if the person answers no, I don't want to resend RTM, they're gonna be then able to answer the other two the other questions as well.

I'm a little bit correct.

So this is the exact point I'm making.

And if I can just call you out for a second, yeah.

Millicent is one of the people who has done the petition.

And and now this poor woman is confused by what we're talking about.

I think it's confusing in any event.

I mean, I actually think that I think that March makes sense because I'm just trying to understand it.

I mean, I'm not saying it's it's I think it's hard to understand in any event.

Um and it's gonna be a lot of work to make it clear.

Um I I think that the um the process that you go through to to make a voting choice.

I mean, if you're standing up and saying, do we want to get rid of RTM?

somebody's gonna say, okay, what are we gonna do instead?

And they're not gonna be able to answer that question for another four months.

So that's kind of why I lean towards the March thing.

But um I'm just wondering what that ballot looks like.

Um also I think that there are people who um want who who do want RTM.

I mean, most of the people who have spoken so far in this room seem to be people who don't who want Australian ballot.

But I think that there are people who want RTM to stay, but if RTM was ended, they would then want OTM because the two things are one is a variant of the other.

Um so I I wonder if there's going to be an opportunity for those people to say yes to RTM, but if RTM is ended, yes to OTM.

Is that going to be possible in the way the ballot is structured?

Would be structured.

It will be structured so that if it's not as though if you don't vote to discontinue RTM, you don't get to vote on the other two articles.

Okay.

So you would the ballot it would be all in one ballot and it would say um do you want to end RTM?

And if you say no, I don't want to ar end RTM, then you still can answer those other two questions?

Right.

Because for instance, if you look at the Franks petition, it says in the event that the vote on Article 1 is in the affirmative, then it's the next question.

So you're going to have the if that then this type.

That that's the way the article would read.

So if RTM ends um we okay, I think I think I hear your answer.

Just in addition, Millison, there's going to be all the elected officials, the RTM members, and then these questions.

So it's a regular town meeting day ballot.

Yeah.

And this is just a bonus.

Yeah.

Well, I do think, and I think you made this point, Elizabeth, is that when you're thinking about ending RTM, part of the answer that's going to go on in your head is if not, what what then?

And I think for the voter, it kind of makes sense to be able to think about those all at the same time.

So that they know the consequences of ending RTM of that decision.

Thank you, Milson.

John?

Yes, and just to add to that, um, of course, the petitioners will bring their language for what they want to see in the petition, and that will be shared with the public in your warnings, as well as at the two informational meetings where all this can be discussed and everyone can know what they're voting for or you know what it how it all works, and that's kind of the reason for having those information uh hearings before the ballot.

Um the man with the blue hat and then and then David John Lightfoot, District 9.

Um I have a question for the attorney, if I may, um, which is is there a path to Australian ballot without going through the legislature?

Yes.

Yes, uh statutorily there is.

However, there's been a petition to ask the question to if RTM is discontinued, then the next article would be shall the town employ uh and change the charter to uh vote by Australian ballot.

So because that's been petitioned as a charter amendment, it ha the the select board doesn't have a choice.

They have to put that on for the March meeting.

Absent that petition, so that petition had never come across the the town clerk's uh desk.

If there's a vote to discontinue representative town meeting, then by operation of law you would have open town meeting.

By statute, you can then have an article on whether to employ the Australian ballot method of voting for essentially three different topics.

We already have it for election of officers, the second one is for public questions, and the third is to adopt your budget by Australian ballot.

So that ability all exists in statute absent these petitions.

It's the petitions for charter change that are making it complicated here.

We can't we've got the petitions submitted already, so we're we're we're dealt our our cards for this hand.

I hope that helps.

I think so.

Yeah, thank you.

David Mr.

Thank you, David Lovemok, District 9.

So there's I think a suggestion from the select board or some members of the select board to add an article to rescind RTM and then to present the two petitions afterwards.

If I remember correctly, the Australian ballot petition has two parts to it.

One is to rescind RTM, and the second is to adopt Australian ballot.

Is that going to be a single article or those separate articles?

Separate articles.

In which case you already have the rescind RTM in there.

So you don't really need the select board's rescind RTM.

Actually, that's the that's the thank you for bringing if I may, I sorry.

Please go ahead.

Thank you, because obviously I did not explain it well enough early early on.

Because that is as a petitioned article, if you leave it the same without the select board making on its own motion an article on whether to discontinue our representative town meeting.

Then that Article 1 is part of a petitioned article for a charter change.

So that does not go into effect until the legislature approves that.

The difference is if the select board, and the select board has until January to make up its mind on this.

If if the select board on its own motion makes Article One of Mr.

Frank's petition a separate article, uh put on the warning on its own motion, then that would be a vote of the voters of the town of Brattleboro.

And if the answer is yes, representative town meeting is discontinued, period.

Then Article 2, you wouldn't have the same article in Mr.

Frank's first article of his two article petition because we're allowed to correct it for technical uh changes.

You would have already voted on what was his first article, but instead of having to wait for the legislature, the answer on that, if it's in the affirmative, would take effect right away.

So you're not so so you're you would really still have three articles based on uh the two petitions and or if the select board does its own article on whether to discontinue, but in either event, and we've got time to decide that uh you've got three articles.

Thank you.

Does uh anybody have a tile at all?

I'm getting a little bit of a headache.

Are you pregnant?

I'm okay.

Um I I just I just do want to kind of point out that once again, like this thing is just seems unreal.

We were gonna put potentially now four things.

Thank you for I forgot that that Frank's petition had two parts to it.

Um seemingly asking the same thing.

Right?

In in translation.

I think it's only three because the first part of Tom's would be rescinded.

Right.

Okay, so three, but still seemingly asking the same thing.

And I and I just think it's highly confusing.

So I'm just gonna say November again and we'll move on.

Um have we heard from the public?

All right.

Have we heard from the board?

Are we ready to vote?

I you know, I will disclose that my needle is moving.

My needle is moving towards Peter.

And um and in c this conversation, it it actually does sound like it's the simplest option.

And um my concerns were that we'd have a larger voter turnout in March.

It's important for the democratic process.

The entire process, whether it's, you know, um once this vote occurs engaging the Social Studies Department at BUHS, we have voters there that can vote on our charter and any decisions and still can in March.

Um, but that this simple question.

Should we have RTM or should we not have RTM could be answered in November?

It could be answered, and then we have the next ballot in March.

And that does I'm a simple person, and that seems like a simple option.

So my needle's moving.

I just wanted to disclose that for no surprises, because I came in here firmly March, and I'm I'm moving.

Um John, um what are the consequences of the needle moving?

We'd have to have a meeting on October 3rd.

Yep.

Um so we would call a special meeting on October 3rd for you to warn a November um 4th ballot, and you would probably have to move your November 4th regular meeting to November 6th so that this space could be available for an election, because we don't have any place else reserved.

Um there are certainly some logistical issues around that with uh the uh current absence of our town clerk.

Um we would do our best to try to accommodate that, but it it would be challenging.

That's more information.

Thank you for it, because that it is it gets harder.

I would hate for that to be the reason you decided one go one way or another, but it is a factor that we would have to grapple with.

Yep.

Yep.

Dick has the last word.

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

You know, one of the things I think about when I go and vote.

Oh, I didn't see that.

Thank you.

How many people don't flip the ballot over and don't vote for articles or issues on the back of the ballot.

And another reason I say for that singular vote in November.

Um what John talked about, I don't think any of those issues are certainly insurmountable.

We've had multiple elections in this room.

Uh and so I don't look at that as our as a hurdle.

Uh so I am somewhat encouraged by a board member moving off a position that one held.

Uh because a lot of times when I speak or other people speak, I don't believe that they're really listened to.

And uh it almost feels like we come to the game and we've made up our minds.

And I don't think that's a good process.

Uh I think whether you agree with me or not, I think it's a it's for me, it's a clarifying question, and I think it's a lot easier, just what you were talking about, Amanda.

I think it and Fish talked about it.

It makes it a lot clearer and a lot easier.

And I would hope that that's what you would want for the voters.

Uh that it's clear, it's easy, it's concise.

And then the only thing you have to figure out is do I want this or don't I?

And so I would I would hope that uh there's two, and I'm hoping that someone says, yeah, I think I think I can change my mind and go there so there's three votes.

Thank you.

Randy, Randy, if you can hear me, I'm asking you to unmute.

Randy, you should have a request to unmute.

I must have disconnected.

Right.

Um, let me just ask you one more clarification.

Um there would be the second bite at the apple, regardless of the outcome of November.

Is that correct?

Not regardless.

Correct.

In the event that the you had a vote in November and that vote was to discontinue, you wouldn't have a second bite at that in March.

If on the other hand you had a vote in November and the vote was to continue representative town meeting, then Article one of Mr.

Frank's petition uh would still need to be put before the voters.

So only in that circumstance would there be a second bite at the apple.

But then that would have to go to the legislature.

Correct.

Well, you could warn it as your own vote again in November and not March if you wanted, but in order for either of the petitions to move forward, you would have to have that vote first.

So thank you.

All right.

Are we ready?

Okay.

Um made the motion.

I didn't have to be able to do that.

Isaac.

Yes.

Isaac made a motion to direct the staff to implement the charter petition warning plan as presented.

All those in favor of that motion, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

All those uh against, please raise your hand, say nay.

Nay.

Okay.

That's three to two.

Thank you very much, everyone.

And thank you to our attorneys.

Thank you.

Um let's take a break.

Uh five whole minutes.

Let's call the meeting back to order.

Thank you very much.

Um the next item on our agenda was the finance committee update.

But members of the finance committee have uh asked to be um uh removed their their presentation removed to another meeting.

Um and I know there are meetings in October.

I don't know how fill full they are, but um that will be discussed in the agenda setting committee.

Um do we have um this was an informational item, but I would appreciate the board's acceptance of the ability to move this to another time.

Do we have can we do it in November?

Well, we'll do it whenever John tells us it's a joke that was my joke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, yes.

Very good.

Thank you, Millison.

Sorry, my thumb is up too.

Yeah, very good.

So now the final item on our agenda is the FY25 committee and board vacancies announced.

Oh, yes.

I'm sorry, but point of order for the minutes.

Do we need a vote to table something?

I don't know.

Do we?

Um you could do that.

Let's take one.

Let's make a message.

I like to move that we table the discussion.

Sorry.

All right.

Go ahead, Isaac.

Isaac has made a motion to table this item until the next available meeting.

All in favor.

May I make a comment?

Yeah.

I just for the public record.

I want to know.

I want everyone to know that we value this time to discuss your suggestions from the finance committee.

And it is by no means a slight on the effort that you guys did to table this.

And I just want to know I want the public to know that it was at Millicent's request.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Millson.

Okay.

So all in favor of tabling the finance committee presentation to the next available slot on our agenda.

Please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

That's five zero.

So thank you.

And thank you, Millicent.

Now, our next item is committee vacancies.

And we have three.

Well, John, I I'm a little confused by um so I explain.

So you have um two uncontested appointments that we're suggesting that you make tonight.

One um additional uh opportunity has two um applicants for one position, and normally you would do an interview for that.

We did not schedule that in.

I think the one of the applicants came in later, and so um I would propose that we we schedule interviews for that at one of your upcoming meetings and do that appointment later on.

Great.

Okay, all right.

So um let's have a motion to create a slate with Amy Thornton Ballin on the arts committee and Tim Kipp as a fence viewer.

Can I have such a motion?

I'll make that motion.

Great.

What you said, all right.

All right, Peter has made a motion to have a ballot consisting of Amy Thornton Baylin at the Arts Committee and Tim Kipp as fence viewer.

All select board members in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

That's five-zero.

Thank you very much.

And there's one more item on the agenda.

I'll motion to adjourn.

Great.

Peter has moved to adjourn.

All in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you.

That was five zero.

And good night to all.

Thank you, Millison.

Thank you, Seth.

Thanks for the question.

Thank you, Millison, for staying and keeping us company.

Thank you, John.

Who else?

Oh, BCTB, of course.

Thank you very much.

Oh, I lost my and Oscar and Amanda, please do stay and sign these documents.

We will.

That's so we can apply for the grant tomorrow.

Yes.

Thank you.

Hi, John.

Thank you.