It is six PM.

Welcome to the July twenty-seventh meeting of the Broken Arrow Drainage Advisory Committee.

We'll call the meeting to order.

Time is six PM.

Roll call, please.

Hicks.

Yes.

Hamilton.

Yes.

Wallace.

Yes.

Pickle.

Here.

Parks.

Here.

Mason.

Hendricks.

Here.

Item three.

Consideration of consent agenda.

I would like to note on item A, there are two spelling errors of Madison's first name.

I've circled them on the minutes.

If we can just correct the spelling of her name correctly, I think that the minutes are thank you.

Any other discussion of any of those items.

I make a motion we approve consent agenda.

Second.

With the changes.

We have a motion from Johnny Parks.

A second from David Pickle.

Any further discussion?

Roll call, please.

Yes.

Hamilton.

Jimstein.

Wallace.

Yes.

Item four, there are no items removed from the consent agenda.

Item five presentations.

There are none.

Item six, general committee business.

Subitem A, twenty-six dash one one three seven.

Consideration discussion and possible action to recommend to City Council to expend construction funds for drainage improvements along the Indian Springs golf course.

Case number twenty-six dash zero one five.

So last year at this time.

As a brief overview, the location is south of Jasper Street, and it is between Elm and Lynn Lane and Indian Springs 2 subdivision where it says street flooding, that's Fairway Drive.

This subdivision was platted in 1971.

But we've got two separate items that are actually tied together in this area.

So one that we see Indian Springs 2nd and that blue line, that is not a blue line stream, that is just a blue line.

So I want to make a clarification on that.

It's not a blue line stream.

That is our storm sewer.

We just needed a bolt bolt it out so that it could be seen.

That is a public storm sewer.

It does pick up roughly 14 acres that drains to one single inlet in Indian Springs and then goes in between the houses and outlets onto the golf course property.

That is a public storm sewer system, and on the golf course property, the pipe is broken.

So this is pictures from 25.

So it's a was an old corrugated metal pipe.

You can see not the best of pictures, but you can see it's crumbling.

This is typical pipe failure from the 70s of a corrugated metal pipe to today.

More pictures of the pipe failure on the right.

What you see is erosion that has occurred.

Now here is a something I want to how we tied some of this together.

You see that fence that is there.

The golf course put that fence up to protect the their golf course property and to protect people.

The one on the left, if you can look there along the tree line, you see something that's called a debris line.

Right there.

And I'll point it out for the audience as well.

You can also see leaves around that single single solitary inlet.

Um so between the two of them, the golf course is actually the applicant, but this is a great way to tie the two projects together.

Tonight we're actually going to separate it just a little bit, and I'll get into that as we move on into the presentation.

So as we look at the golf course, you see that fence?

That's that fence.

So these pictures were taken Friday.

So on July 24th, this past Friday.

So as you can see, that erosion has continued going up the city's storm sewer pipe.

We do know that there's a break and a separation in the pipe.

As you look at this picture, you can actually see the concrete pipe exposed.

Right there.

So what the original plan was, we'd got the search, we had a survey performed, did an in-house design.

This is the design that we came up with.

It's all one storm sewer system.

The one done on Fairway Drive, we've got to be done later, and the reason it is to be done later is ONG has a gas line in the way.

We have been working with ONG trying to get them to move it, and they said January of 27th.

There's not much we can do.

We've we've worked with them, we've tried, we've got our utility coordinator and ONG said no, this is the earliest we're going to do it.

Going back to this picture, we don't really want to wait too much.

So we're separating these two projects, and as we do the project downstream, we'll add a new manhole, uh new insection.

This is actually taken from our plans.

So we'll do a new pipe, we'll rebuild the slope and make this area better.

Now, with that being said, this will help some on the ponding issue in Fairway Drive, just because right now you've got a blockage.

So as it's coming through, it's got to push any of the blockage out.

So it it's not going to be a drastic help, but it will help.

What we've got before you is asking for additional construction funds to help construct the uh storm sewer portion on the Indian Springs Golf Course.

The reason we're asking for more is as we got into it, it was more complex and the erosion more severe than the original.

Um the money that we're asking for will go towards this portion of the project.

If there's any money left over, we'll put it towards the uh fairway drive portion, and I'm also working with our finance department right now.

There might be some other funds that we can use on the city right-of-way portion.

So there we may not come back in January for an additional funds, so we might be able to do it all with this one here.

That so that's what we're looking at.

But today we're looking for the public benefit to improve the infrastructure, you know, the part that's on private park property, correct the erosion that has happened due to public infrastructure, and staff is recommending to the committee to recommend to city council the this project.

You know, the part that's on private part property, correct the erosion that has happened due to public infrastructure, and staff is recommending to the committee to recommend to city council the this project.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Is it done on any of the golf course?

Yes, some of this will be done on the golf course, and uh the golf course has already signed an easement with the city broken arrow, so we do have all the easements in place to perform this job.

This project is the funds taking into account the any repair that might be needed to the golf course itself after it's remediated.

Yes.

So what we're looking at is trying to access it also through Fairway Drive for minimal impact to the golf course.

So we're looking to impact from Fairway Drive, come down and then through the pipe easement.

That that is our intention to go this way to access this area to build that back up.

Okay.

So we're as much as possible, we're trying to do as least impact to the golf course as possible during this project.

Okay.

Appreciate that.

Thank you, Patrick.

You're welcome.

January may be an advantage to the golf course.

Good point.

Well, if the funds do get approved or do get recommended from council and do get recommended from or do go to council, and council agrees as well.

We will go ahead and get this advertised and try to do this during the dry fall season.

Okay, I know we're in a dry summer season, there's a little bit of fall rains, but we will work on making sure we get this advertised and get it done as best we can during the next dry period.

Okay.

I understand we have one of the we have in the yes.

The applicant is here today if he would like if you'd like to speak or not.

Always want to make sure you have an opportunity to speak if you'd like.

Please state your name.

Tyler Yoke with Indian Springs Country Club.

Uh, thank you all for having us and for considering this.

Just a couple things.

Um, the fence that was shown in the picture from spring of 2025, that was actually the first fence.

We have replaced it.

The second picture that you saw was the second fence that we've now lost.

Uh we put it about eight feet away from the opening.

We're now gonna have to put a third fence up because of the in the last couple of weeks it has collapsed.

It's just terrible soil quality, it's very sandy, so that once that top soil is gone, there's nothing to hold it in place.

Um that little inlet you see heading south off of Fairway Drive.

The country club actually owns that road, and there's a cart path that hooks onto that, so there will be very minimal damage.

Already talking with uh Sarah Walters.

For the most part, there's gonna be one track across the fairway with the machinery will have to go on, it'll only be sod that'll need to be replaced.

But most of the work will be in an area that's not in play, it's rough and hillside that's between two holes.

So there's very minimal uh topsoil disruption for us.

But um, that was all I wanted to add, and I appreciate you all considering this.

Thank you for being here.

Any other questions, comments?

I'll entertain a motion.

I'll second.

I'm sorry, who made the motion?

Oh, okay.

I thought you were doing that.

Um I would recommend that we move this to council to expend those funds to move this project forward.

I'll second.

We have a motion by Madison, a second by Amber.

Any further discussion?

Roll call.

Hicks, yes, Hamilton, yes, Wallace?

Yes.

Pickle?

Yes.

Parks?

Yes.

Hendricks, yes.

Item B 26-1142.

Consideration discussion and possible action to recommend to City Council to reallocate construction funds for design of erosion protection at 3321 West Commercial Street.

I'm sorry, Commercial Court.

Case number 26-014.

Good evening again.

Uh, this case we originally brought before the committee on April 29th of 24 for design funds, and then again on April 23rd of 25 for construction funds.

Um the council did authorize those funds, and since that time, the city has been negotiation with the property owners.

It's been take it's taken a long time for all there's three property owners on this.

I'll go through a brief history of this and then I'll get to where we are today.

Um, as you can see, the red circles, that is the project.

It's south of Kenosha, north of Houston, and east of Olive.

So when you look at this, you do see there's a floodplain there.

That floodplains right on the edge of this of the project.

The original project as designed would have been in the floodplain.

There is a sanitary sewer in that red area, the red squiggly box.

That is where the project was.

We also gotta go a little bit closer to the left side of the screen, closer to Olive was going to get larger.

And I will show you that in just a moment.

There we there it is.

That was the proposed improvements.

And during this entire design process, there was a lot of grading, a lot of tree removal.

The property there on the top of the screen, which is south, but that's the top of the screen.

They were good with it, they signed an easement.

The property that you see on the left of the screen with the pool, they signed the easement as well.

The left of the screen is actually the applicant.

The one on the right of the screen, staff, we sat in their house, I was one of them.

We sat in their living room, walked through the plans through the design phase, and they said yes, they said yes, and the owner even said, Hey, I'd be happy for you to remove some of those trees for me.

Okay.

So we kept moving forward with it, and then at the very end, he said no.

He goes, I don't want this project anymore.

We're not gonna do it.

We went a little bit, talked with them again, and then they we actually sent them a letter saying, if you would are not interested, would you please you know just sign initials so that we can put in the file?

They returned that letter and said this we are not interested in this project.

I am not sure what happened.

I just know that through the entire design phase, we walked through this entire project with them a few times, and they were on board at the very end, they said no.

Um so what we're doing is there is money that was set aside for construction that the DAC recommended and council approved.

So for that construction, just to give you a little bit of a pictorial to show what is the situation out there.

That is the outfall that structure that you see at the top of the page here.

And when the water's flowing, it does get over to the top of it.

That is the dry with its the dry stream.

You can see the erosion on the left on the right side.

That's the stream when it's flowing full.

Now, this is not a blue line at this point.

This connects to one, but this is not just a video to show for a fact as to the velocity that goes through here.

So the staff is coming before the committee to not ask for additional funds, but to reallocate the construction funds to go back to design.

We're going to look at a different alternative, a different option that maybe can accomplish the same goal to keep moving this project forward.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

So the video that you just showed.

Yes.

Is that on the property owner who has now declined?

Is it on their properties?

Correct.

The video was taken by the neighbor.

Uh-huh.

This neighbor here.

And the main majority of that is right along the property line, but is on the property owner here closer to Olive.

So for the audience, the video is taken by the applicant, that property owner, and the majority of that is right here on that property owners.

Did they indicate why they were no longer interested?

They did not.

They we were talking with them, and then all of a sudden they just went cold, and they weren't really re turning my phone calls.

Uh, Miss Sarah Walters, she was working with them and did had a great relationship with them, and then after a while, they just stopped returning her phone calls too.

We do not know why.

So you're able to work it without getting on their property now, is that correct?

I don't know.

That's what we want to go back with a design and take a look and see if it's there's anything feasible that we can do to help mitigate this as we move forward, and that's what we're looking for to relocate, reallocate the design or construction funds to design.

I think we'd want to make sure not to get on their property.

And I mean that they're going to be able to do that.

I agree.

I agree.

That that is the goal, and that will be the intent when we talk with uh the consultant.

Is there no part of that property that the city currently has an easement on?

No, we do not.

So there's no opportunity to utilize that at all.

Now there may be some work, the property on the bottom of the page, but they've already agreed in principle to the previous design.

So we will work with them as well if that is necessary, then they believe that they would give us permission again.

If I may, madam chair.

May I ask some questions?

Absolutely pleased you.

Can you turn back to your plan?

Yeah.

So that's a pretty big take on the neighboring property.

I guess that would be the west, correct?

Correct.

How many acres was it?

Roughly.

Ten.

With it with clearing and also getting from the access from olive.

Okay.

And as I said, they were for it at the beginning.

I see a couple things here by looking at your plan.

Can you I know the applicants here for the record?

What is the biggest concern?

The biggest concern is, and this is not this shows proposed contours for those conditions.

The biggest concern, and let me turn around, is as this is flowing through here, there is a big hole that is coming and it's eroding, and it's right next to the neighbor's property.

And also you can see there's an existing sanitary line right there.

So and that's what I thought.

That's what I recall from years ago that there's a drop in the property, and it's it's eroding quite a bit.

I see the uh storm sewer on the south side of the, or I guess that'd be the north side of the property.

Uh is there a lot of erosion at that discharge point?

No, sir, there is not.

The uh the outlet structure with the concrete is uh protecting that.

So um again north is down on your picture here.

Correct.

Uh so the property to the right, which is the west is eroding um in to or close to the applicant's uh property.

It may not even be on the property quite yet, but there's a pretty good hole and a pretty good drop.

So some of the discussions that we've had, since we can't go to the west and re-channelise and take five, ten acres, whatever it is, and turn it into a major ditch.

Um can we put in a cutoff wall?

Can we put in either a sheet pile wall, a concrete wall, or something that would stop the erosion onto the applicant's property?

So that is an essence one of the things that we want to look at.

So just letting the committee know we have some other ideas, but we need to look at something.

So you're looking to move committed funds for construction to redesign.

Correct.

Perfect.

And the applicant is here.

Is that you?

Would you like to speak?

Um please just say your name for the record.

My name is Sue Grickson.

Um, some of you may remember me from the last time we we did this.

Um basically, yeah, it's it's a an ongoing concern.

It has been for a number of years.

Um love the project that they came up with and gutted the that's not moving forwards that way.

Um the water is relentless.

Yes.

Um, the amount that comes through, the speed it comes through, you've heard the noise it makes.

Um, and it would just be really nice to have something done to mitigate what's going on because every time it rains, it it's coming a little closer and and just a little ways off from our property line is I I think we'll have some to measure it at some point, but it it's a really big drop.

Um which you know, if it's on any kind of public property would be incredibly dangerous.

Um but that that's the situation as it is, and uh yeah, maybe forwards from our point of view, we will do whatever is necessary easement-wise to accommodate what the city can do with this.

So okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

May I ask her a question?

Certainly.

Come on back.

Yeah, so the the erosion is the biggest concern right now.

So the the erosion is the biggest concern right now.

And the the water coming over the spillway from the pond.

Uh I know it comes fast, and I know there's a big amount of it.

Is that causing a big problem on the property, or is that kind of contained?

We've kind of got that to the point where it's quasi contained.

Yeah.

Yeah, but um it's sort of with the the knowledge that at any time that situation can change.

Okay.

Um, but that's yeah, we we dealt with that it we've dealt with all we can kind of on our property.

Is the erosion, and forgive me, it's been years since I've been out there.

Is the erosion when that water from the pond cuts across your property right by your pool is the erosion plunge pit right at the end of where it goes on to the next property, or is it somewhere else?

Uh we it it was quite bad there.

We slowed that down by dumping a ton of rocks down there, which stopped the drop-off being quite so dramatic.

So now it's a little bit further good further back.

But there's a lot of um trees where the boots are gone now and they're starting to run over.

I think since we couldn't re-channelise and rework this discharge, I think the approach that we're looking at it's erosion protection approach, so I would greatly support removing or moving these funds over to continue to look at a different option now.

So based on what you just um shared with the tree roots being washed out and them now falling over.

What is the risk and or obligation when those trees fall, and now we have blockage in that stream causing potential flooding.

Uh depending on what the trees are.

I mean, the uh property owners are aware of it, the neighboring property owner, but it also depends which way it falls and stuff.

Um that's that's hard to predict.

Uh you can allow erosion to occur on your property.

So the neighboring property owner can allow it to occur on their property.

Um, but now you're getting into that very fine line that it's approaching their property.

I like I said, I think this is a good approach and use of these funds to see if we can come up with something different.

This has been here for a couple of decades.

I know they were you're the first and only property owner, I believe.

Uh no, there was a one before we we've been there, oh gosh, probably about 20 ish years now, but with somebody before us.

Um it's just it's a challenge point.

So she's the legal.

I'm not gonna answer any legal questions, but that would be uh civil suits on that.

So okay.

Okay, thank you so much.

Any other questions?

I'll entertain a motion.

I'll make a motion that we approve uh 26-1142 or case number 26014.

I'll second and that's transferring funds.

Yep.

All right.

We have a motion by Donna, a second by David.

Any further discussion?

Roll call, please.

Hicks, yes, Hamilton, yes, Wallace, yes, pickle, yes, parks, yes, Hendrix.

Yes.

Item C 26-1143, consideration, discussion, and possible action to recommend denial to city council to expend funds to mitigate erosion on city property adjacent to the oaks at Indian Springs neighborhood case number 26-016.

Good evening again.

This one is actually a new one.

So this one is a new application that came before us.

Um just stating this, there have been a few other applications that have come in, but some of them were maintenance related, and we're working with our streets and stormwater on maintenance issues.

So there have been others, but we do look at those applications as they come in.

If it's a true maintenance item on a system, clogged storm drain, as an example was one of them.

We work to see if we can get it through a maintenance item before bringing it to the committee, just for the record.

That if you with all the rain we had this past few months, there have been others, but most of them have been maintenance items that we've been able to address elsewhere.

So this application, uh, before I get started, I will say that I have reached out to the applicant and they were unable to attend today.

It would just he had a conflict of schedule and was not able to be here.

So the location of this one is south of Jasper, 131st, and west of 9th Street or Lynn Lane.

What you do see at the bottom right where it says COBA WWTP, that is our wastewater treatment plant.

So that's that's how far south this is.

Um the location of concern is that's Tarif Port where you see the red uh box there.

As we go over to the other one, the actual concern is off site onto the neighboring property to the south of the applicant.

City Broken Arrow owns that property.

The property that you see is a part of the property that we own for the uh wastewater treatment plant.

So it's all one big parcel, so it is owned by the city of Broken Arrow.

It is a steep slope, and what you see where that little floodplain is, that's the Arkansas River.

So it gives you a little bit of an idea as to where this is at.

The erosion that they have asked for help mitigating is just on the south of those three properties that we have seen.

Uh staff did go out in July.

I guess this is July.

We did go out in July.

We took a look at it.

There is uh myself, streets and stormwater since it's City of Broken Arrow property.

There's a few of us that went out there to investigate this site.

So what we have found is that the only thing draining, even with our site investigations, is about half of the yards, 0.18 acres.

That is about 7800 square feet, and each of them drain to the south towards the broken arrow property.

So there's no utilities that are back there.

We did take some pictures.

What we see here is those two pipes, that's 12 12-inch pipes.

That one of the applicant or not one of the people, not the applicant, this he's the neighbor to the applicant.

He installed a system in his backyard, and what we were told is that those pipes at one time were actually more I'll say flat, not vertical.

Yes, they drain, but and they installed this on City Broken Arrow property.

They did not talk to us first.

So this is installed, and over time in that sandy soil, it's some of the same type of soils that we saw in the Indian Springs area.

Um it's just eroded back.

The riprap, the rock that is up there, that was also installed by the property owners on the north side, whether it's the current property owner or previous property owner, but was not installed by the city broken arrow.

Um, and that just another view of the backyard.

Well, you can see the fence, we're out we're standing on the city of Broken Arrow's property when we took this picture.

The little it looks like a manhole there at the uh upper left.

That's actually a pot.

That's a plot for a potted plant.

And I just wanted to bring that to your attention.

You can also see some of it has some good vegetation, which is helping.

There is some erosion, it does drain through the people's yards and ends up concentrating and coming out.

Um, just another picture of looking in the backyard over a retaining wall.

Um we have looked at this, uh staff has gone through, there's not any utilities.

It does appear that they've directed the water onto this onto the city broken arrows property, but we have not found a public benefit for the expenditure of proposition six funds.

And therefore, staff is recommending that the drainage advisory committee reject the applicant's respect to expend funds on this project.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Is the property owner's concern is that it's eroding and will eventually erode part of their own property?

Is that correct?

Yeah.

That it will get back into their property.

Well, if it's sand, it will.

Eventually, yes, it will.

But there's nothing back there as far as city infrastructure.

Correct.

I will back up a few slides.

So as you're looking at this, there's there's nothing back there but the hillside and trees.

Is there a walking trail or anything like that?

No, there is not.

We forged through the uh so there's not even a stream that's no ma'am.

It's just the hillside.

It's just their runoff from their yards that have caused this.

That they've you know that was directed to a point at that that they directed to a point.

How many houses?

So I guess in them trying to mitigate worse.

Correct.

Um I did talk to the applicant.

I said that this was that we the city that we were staff was going to reject, or not reject, staff was going to recommend rejection, but that since he wasn't able to be here, that I'd be happy to meet with him and talk to him and walk through different things that we can do in any work back here, obviously at this point, make sure they get the proper permits to be on the city's property.

So I'm assuming that when they laid the the drain pipe it was up flush when they put all that in there and it's fallen now.

Correct.

There was no end treatment placed on that to to protect against undercutting.

And for those that don't know what undercutting is, is as it's coming out of the pipe.

If there's nowhere to protect the soil underneath, it will eventually drop and just eat underneath the pipe and then undercut that pipe.

And that is a prime example of what can happen with it.

You said these are just two pipes?

Two 12-inch pipes.

Coming from two different properties at this point.

One property on one property owner did this.

So he was just taking his drain water and put it in the pipe and brushing it out then.

Is that correct?

To the he took it out to the edge of the hill at the time.

Well, our definition says it needs to benefit the city of broken air before it's been any funds, so I don't see that we really have a choice.

Right.

Which explains the recommendation.

Right.

And there's nobody else here to speak on this.

You said the property owner was correct.

The applicant was not able to attend, he was unavailable today.

And out of the three homes, this is the only one that has this piping, whatever.

Correct.

I'll go back.

The one that has the piping is the one on the far left.

Okay.

And that's coming out, and then the one in the middle is uh is the applicant.

Okay.

And so it's affecting because it's right at the edge of his property as well, but even on his property, there's erosion that is coming off.

Um he's done work to maintain back there, because he wanted a green area.

Instead of letting it go, the one the house on the right has actually let all that area grow and had a deeper root system established.

So his yard, that area still has some erosion, but not nearly as bad as the other two.

Right.

Yeah, looking at this picture, I'd assume the one on the east had the biggest problem, but you're saying it's actually the one on the west.

Correct.

Just so it is just vegetation, like they're up.

I thought it looked like the one on the right, also, because it looked like the the soil was eaten up, you know what I mean in this backyard.

Yeah.

I I would agree with it for based on this, but being out there and with where the location of the pool is, just looking at it, it visually being out there.

That is I didn't take that picture.

Streets and stormwater took that picture.

There is a swimming pool on this property.

For the crowd, there's a swimming pool back here.

The other two did not have, but that one does have a swimming pool.

It just proves the water does what water wants to do.

Looks like the pool is kind of on the hill side too.

That's I'll make a motion that we send it to the uh council recommended denial.

I'll second that motion.

The motion by Johnny, a second by Donna.

Any further discussion?

Roll call, please.

Hicks.

Yes.

Hamilton.

Am I saying yes to the motion?

Or no, we're not going to do it.

Yes, yes, we are.

Yes to the motion.

Wallace.

Yes.

Yes.

Pickle?

Yes.

Park.

Yes.

Hendricks.

Yes.

Item seven, adjourn.

So moved.

Motion by Donna.

Go ahead.

I'll second it.

All right.

Motion by Donna second by Lori to adjourn at 6 37 p.m.

Roll call.

Hicks.

Yes.

Hamilton?

Yes.

Wallace?

Yes.

Pickle?

Yes.

Parks.

Yes.

Mason.

Hendricks.

Yes.

We are adjourned.