It is 5 32.

We will call the land use and special studies committee meeting on Wednesday, October 20th, 25.

We have a lot on the agenda.

We're going to do two things tonight.

What?

August.

I think October.

Oh, August 20th, 2025.

Excuse me.

5 30 here at the library.

On the agenda, we're going to get through two things, though, is what we're going to focus on tonight.

One are two ordinances pertaining to a new development on Old Meridian Street.

Colloquially known as for us up until now, the military, or excuse me, the Veterans Park development now being proposed is Signature 55 Carmel.

One thing we do at all of our meetings is we go around and say who's here.

Go ahead, okay.

I'm resident in the left side.

Mark Brandeman from Remark County.

Matt Steiner, Council.

Shannon Art, Council.

Justin and Hammond, Deputy Clerk.

Trevor Burrus.

Uh second retreat and city book.

I don't know if that's the redevelopment director.

I don't ask your best.

And Dr.

Anita Joshi will be here shortly.

Just ran into some traffic.

So what we have is a little backstory.

There was a development proposed directly next door to the home, home to you, home to suites hotel, and the Carmel VFW.

Something started to go in and then fell apart.

Myself and the colleagues on the council saw an opportunity to make it something more than just another mixed use development.

Having a passion for supporting our veterans here in Carmel is at the top of the list for all of the council.

And since we knew we were going to have a north-south trail, and since the BFW is there and American Legion is just north of there, we wanted to make this a veteran-centric trail.

When this happened, that land became available.

And of course, our primary desire would have been to buy the whole property.

But the people of Carmel's tax dollars are not infinite, and we wanted to be good stewards of that money, build a public space that honored our veterans, but was also conscientious of people's hard-earned money and investments in property.

Approached me in June, December, January, and said, Hey, what's going on?

I said, Well, we're trying to figure out how to buy this property.

And then it's going to be Henry, Chris, then.

And then Henry said, Well, what if we could compromise?

What if we could do a project which would offset your costs tremendously and you could build a better park and feel like everybody could accomplish their goals?

That's what Henry's been working on for the last uh I don't know, six months, seven months, uh through many iterations.

Um and I think he's financially put together a fantastic package for us and the people of Carmel.

Now we're just gonna talk about what the product is.

Um, everyone, Tom, do you want to kind of uh we kind of give an overview of the subcouncil?

Um what do you kind of want to um I'll give the quick overview of 88 million dollar projects, 200 eight restricted units.

So for anyone watching, that means 80% of these units have to have a 51 owner that's 55 or older.

So I think federal guidelines for the developer is gonna um there's also a 12,000 programming space.

Um the project provides 356 parking spaces, 75% of which will be open to the public at any time for time to serve, subject to reasonable rules, like partly for one.

The project's also serving uh providing public bathrooms for parts that'll somewhere in a second, and uh the developer's gonna maintain those baths.

And the developer's gonna maintain those paths.

And uh the developers um we've been there's been a lot of teamwork with our parks department.

So the intent here is that conscious project is a goal, it will uh transfer 1.54 acres of the parks department or below that with two appraisals uh so that the parks department can um put this park together, and the design should be almost concurrent so that uh just regional submitted the detention for the project can become the water feature of the park.

So there's gonna be a lot of teamwork as we work with that.

Um that's essentially the the city's kind of uh way of thinking about it.

Um Tom, you just want to give a lot of the obvious topic element three bar.

Um mentioned the other night, this product type, which I suspect you're to be familiar with now or getting familiar with.

All your really cool market rate apartments downtown that aren't that have no affordability components, no age component, just really cool market rate apartments like the rail yard and station, and independent living.

And across the country, um there the last probably started 10 years ago over 15 years ago.

Um developing a new product type is really we'll say really cool apartments, but age restricted.

So no transportation, no cafeteria.

Um, and so it attracts renters who are generally healthy and generally afford rents at the top end of the market.

Um, which is which we've always said when we talk to City Town, but over land over land use of kind of much flexor.

Um no impact on schools, um uh hits the roads at a different time.

P travel is a different time, so that's less impact on the roads.

Um, even in the ITE traffic manual, we it's a lesser number of when you sort of do the eastern those types of calculations.

Um demonstrably less than lucky apartments, so we have throw less than attack there, but um particularly at communities like yours, we have school referendums and still capture a huge piece of matter for how it is referred to.

66,000 taxes.

I do want to go back to um Henry.

Henry said if I want to make this emphasize this, it is age restricted here, but thanks for around age targeted, age restricted.

Oh, yeah, sure, it's gonna be targeted, it's gonna be this or that.

Um we are what we're doing my raise your hands right now.

We are discriminating against young people.

That's what in essence we're saying, if you're 30, you can't live here.

Um, and that's uncost unconstitutional in the state that again, so the United States.

Um, unless there's a unless there's a legislative attempt by it, so there's a there's a law, there's a federal law code housing for which referring to that.

So you can do that as long as 80% of your leases are with people that are 55 and over, and you market it, and you you you operate it as a as a uh uh project role working.

So that's the law that we're under, and if we ever fail not to do that, then we're subject to lawsuits and other things.

So um it's very and that's our business plan is to really track those type of folks.

So um we do we we compete with uh from an amenities perspective with the high-end market rate apartments.

We try to add things that aren't in every project, um art studios, private lining and living areas where you can rent in case you want to have your family pump post your family for Thanksgiving or something like that.

Um vault simulator, maybe even a racing simulator.

This is um that really building community.

Um so for us the building is important, but what's gonna make this successful or not is how we operate it, whether or not we can build community within the walls of the building and within the courtyard.

So we have a whole process we go through with our property managers to do that.

It's that that white glove sort of resort style concierge living.

Um so that's that's more about the operations, which I think is important for land use.

Um we did was called Dan Moriarty at Studio M, and help us sort of fit in the uh the old Ridian uh main street uh area to be called the flower district.

Um so if any questions meet great as I'll probably let Dan talk more about the site plan and the building.

Sure.

And hopefully you've all got a set of drones that you can look at.

It's on the board so you can't see those very well.

But essentially, is there's you know, the park property line, there's a property only established there.

So the park section of 1.54 acres, which we know that this is just a kind of notion at this point.

That plan can be developed by the parts department community input with uh you know design team and and uh and so forth.

Uh the important point there's I think Henry mentioned just about the drainage for the property and the the uh synergy that can be very helpful for both in that in terms of earthwork here, first work and sneak back here and then drainage from the property.

Right now, those of you who remember this is the low spot back here.

This is believer not about 14 or 15 feet below old grain.

So everything kind of runs that way, then the school knows right here owns the property here uh adjacent to the up for the uh engine.

Yeah, extra backway, and then uh there's a bigger parcel back here that's gonna have a trail that comes through and will connect on up to uh main street and the rest of the uh trail system in town.

So for our development, the thought was we use this path right here that connects the veterans here, and we'll also serve as a uh fireman for any fire trucks and for access for emergency vehicles and things that have to get back to the park and there's um this connection then we'd also need to do some work with the with the veterans on exactly how this works and exactly what it looks like.

But the notion is there's a rendering here of uh Dan.

Do you want us to wait till your manager has questions as you go along your call?

Yeah, that's fine.

Um here's a we can see some sort of brick, you know, pavers or some kind of connection to take you know from the goal to uh trail and down to the park.

This is kind of an aerial shot of uh of the what the park could look like, and that that's important.

This this hasn't been vetted with the parks department, really.

I mean just the idea that uh uh there's some programmed uses here that uh open time to discuss and debate and decide what the best program is for the park itself.

Um Meridian Street, I didn't know it's one we have one mistake here.

There's no entrance here.

There's only one garage entrance here, and because of the grade, we're able to have lower level parking under the building that opens up in the park.

And the one part that you have cut a sort of slack on right now is a connection between the park and the levels of the garage.

You know that whatever the parks department decides to do with the park, there's a lot of grade in there, and it could mean our restroom should be on the upper level, but it could be on the lower level.

The main entrance is on the second level, maybe better in this corner.

So we're trying to stay flexible with that with this back elevation here.

Michael Clinton director of the parks department understands all of this, and we know that this is going to be a an effort that we all want to we know that it did happen.

And Michael was was there when Henry and Michael presented this to the veterans before anybody else to make sure there wasn't a big opposition, and it was quite the opposite.

So you'll see the floor plans or some restrooms shown in one of the corners, and those will be vetted as the park develops, as well as the grades along the build.

We really don't know exactly what the grades should go.

And when we do, uh course according to that, so it all works together.

Um other uh items, of course, all the private amenities for the facility or inside the court yard, everything outside is public.

Um this building here is a lower, as you can see in the rendering here, is a little bit lower lower story, of course.

Um while you're pulling that on the area.

I think it was just we have we had a plan which you had which rendered for us, it really had the whole building front of the four storage fronting uh over idiot, and it looks great, and it's like it's with the other ones, the other streets get along there, but um with the angles, it was like where's the prominent quarters, you know.

What's it so this was an attempt to really sort of really make the corners pop, I think a sold from yeah, it's uh and then that two-story level in the front is more of a hey, this is where the action is right.

Then for leasing, we can get a roof garden up here, and it also allowed you to see from the shape of yours here.

You end up with a large awkward shape in here with a lot of angles, so it just didn't is hard to resolve uh those angles.

So that's just it's kind of sad to look into the range in here and also creating a little bit of reading room off of wooden living there, um, which could be you know spot for smart work, could be the supply district develops, uh, and that program develops.

You know, that's another opportunity there.

Just I'll add one more thing.

So this will be parks property.

This is private property, but as we do a redevelopment commission project, it will be an easement that runs over this trail, making it for the use of public beneficiaries correctly.

So other than serving as a fire lane, this is a true walkway.

That will stay public forever.

Same with the bathrooms, same with the garage, just in case it's not clear for the parcel.

Um as we uh as was presented at City Council on Monday.

Um project 200,000 of that is going to go for the fire lane at the discretion of Michael Plitzing.

So the developer of CRC and parks all working for us where exactly those additional money are helping papers and a better design.

But that is happening with truly teamwork of city developer parts.

Um can I just stop you there real quick?

Dan, did you say there is a two entrances at the parking garage or one?

There's only one here.

I me took that one out.

Um there was another one right here, of course, for the hotel exceptional stuff that you can get with just the one entrance.

Um this is a shot if I was coming kind of from the north from the Blueberger side.

So one of the things we try to do is pretty scale down a little bit by adding kind of answer groups at the top on parts of the children, and so then it kind of pulse out some nicer, uh more prominent pieces.

Um brick in here, there's a brick base that goes around the primary materials in the upper upper portion are um called inclusive private uh on an open part.

Um this, I think you've seen this one as well.

This kind of visionary part at the back and the part for the space owned by the school UFW here, of course, and trail as it were built behind the school here.

It does it does show like the significant distance between those the units and then when the school actually starts.

Yes, yeah, that's so good question.

Well, I do, but is anybody else want to just I and I must have used this earlier.

Um this is all for rent and forestale.

That's correct.

Okay, and any incentives for veterans to help bring in since we are trying to make this amenable to veterans.

Yeah, I thought not the first time we've thought about that.

So um, yeah.

Wow.

I think the school can involve seven questions.

It seems that park will butt up against the school.

Have you had any conversations with Michael has had preliminary conversations?

They know it's coming.

Um he has shared this council, entire council is committed and reflected in the park design that sidelines from the top floor windows of the proposed building to the middle school gym area would be will be obscure, whatever that and Dan knows that for some seven iterations of this.

Um that's to protect the people in the building from being accused of being lucky was and to protect the children.

The uh connection between your hall and the building itself.

Are you guys involved in any of that discussion as well?

Yes.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Great.

So a couple things uh from the veterans commission meeting that were brought up, and I don't I don't disagree with the one, but uh is why no retail.

Why no retail?

Another thing brought up was the request for uh like a veterans met check type thing.

Um then I want to go on and after chetch out that and talk about interface between properties.

But did you go?

Um I was just gonna say that's not the majority of the veteran set.

That was just a topic that was brought up.

Um I don't know if you want me to go now or 23.

Um I might anybody can talk whenever they want this room.

Um but I don't know what you're gonna talk about, so I maybe if I start talking about something you want to talk about, stop my hand.

The commercial piece, though, more so is just how it fits in the district.

I mean, working with the mayor on the flower district and what that means and how that's interface.

And she has said this will be one of the youngest districts in Carnival.

And then we put this in there.

Great.

And diversity is awesome.

But I get nervous when somebody there's nodes of activity and then it stops.

The economics of it.

Yeah.

And I compare that to like they spend a lot of time in Manhattan.

And years ago for people there.

You just go urban exploring.

Well you stop and turn around when there's nothing to interface with.

Yeah.

So I didn't.

I didn't know what the thought was, why there's no there's there's two thoughts.

One is from the building envelopes going to which Tom's better to answer, and the others sound maybe a master planning concept, which I'm probably better to answer.

I was gonna also mix in the master urban planning possible to start this off too bad.

Um didn't agree with that, the activity nodes where the street kind of dying in between.

Um what we saw was um it's it's not super active today.

You got Ruberger, you got the that's not about the street, but it's a cool little building.

Uh then you have us, and then you have the hotel, which is not it's not super active because it's more of a destination for people who are staying there.

So um, so we didn't think that it was from a master planning perspective, it was this a must-have.

Um, and then secondly, just from the there's lots of building envelope parking um was already tight, so that retail obviously makes that tighter if you're gonna think about what kind of users you get in there.

Um, and then finally, um done a lot of a lot of retail development or as an attorney for retail developer.

Um the worst thing you'd have is an empty retail space too, because then that even hurts our upper floor and just the so that that may be a little bit of a risk mitigant, which isn't isn't only the right answer, but that's part of what was part of our thinking and not including retail and marketing that bad parking, kind of where we were on ratios and so forth.

Our ratios are tight because it's tight site, right?

And uh so adding more parking in there will have an impact on how we how we can like them building out and how it function.

There's also a thought that you know the pond here across the street, and then the bond isn't in your till and first or their order on the building here, so it's not that of course the retailing closet are kind of building starting.

Sorry, I mean it's larger than that.

Look, um, but good like the worst thing is empty retail.

And there's a there's a uh a pattern or a um a process that a vibrant ecosystem goes through where it all kind of has to be uh kind of come at once.

You want the people there, you want the retail there, but if you have a too many retail spots that aren't being served, then it creates all sorts of negatives.

So like if you're in midtown, if you have Midtown Plaza, this urban node.

The midtown flats, which is 200 units just up in midtown garage has a 1,000 square foot little shape shop.

It doesn't have massive retail.

It doesn't need to, because it's between city center with massive retail and midtown with massive retail.

And so this building, no, I mean, this isn't meant to be offensive, but from a retail standpoint, this is a we're filling in the places between two major retail nodes, and the Meyer of Providence across the street is a major retail driving area node.

And just north of this, apart from the Ruberger that you can see, we have the icon project building a uh midtown plaza style plaza that's gonna be line with retail, then you have the signature to the north of that line of retail, and Barloo live retail.

So we have these two nodes of major retail destinations.

The bond is already providing the people with money, but not retail here to focus the retail in the nodes.

This is the same thing.

This doesn't need retail because the retail is to the north and to the south, but now people can access both with uh the old meridian frontage, and then eventually a trail on the backside.

So we have two major retail nodes, and this is the perfect project in between to provide the active money baby boomers that are gonna go and visit these retail spots.

And if my callball or some other city planners here, they would say Henry's other.

So between the Avant onto the Olivia, the Icon, and whatever that other one is it called signature, yeah.

Okay.

Well, how many apartments is that are a thousand?

But again, if we're talking about a 200 unit project.

Right, I understand that.

Like Avon we built 400.

What's the ratio on the parking?

Oh you want to.

That's a lot.

But really good.

Um do you guys have statistics on if there's a married couple or two people sharing a unit?

Do they have two cars?

Do they have one car?

Is there some sort of metrics you guys have?

In general, and these are these are nationwide statistics.

In general, the the persons per unit ratio is 1.2 to 1.

Um, the the majority of people who are living here, if you look at national statistics are going to be singles, either widows, widowers, or forced people.

There will be couples, uh, but you're talking probably 30% or less will be couples.

Um in that ratio, um, and it depends on where you're at because you've got your demographic age is if you're you know if you're in your upper 60s versus upper 70s, and what your upper 70s likely one car, upper 60s, likely two cars.

So you're so it will be less than one per bedroom by far.

Okay.

So I know uh correct just I need a refresher with the UDO and C zoning.

C zoning doesn't have to follow specific UDO.

C zoning allows city staff on these um marquee public private partnerships to um have some discretion.

So generally there are parking minimums, C zoning doesn't have parking minimums, but we vet the parking where it the way it makes sense.

So here 360 spaces for 200 units, there's a lot of comfort.

Well that remind me of percentage for public parking.

75% of those are going to be open to the public first come, first or that was a robust conversation at the veterans meeting, just trying to understand that it's really tough luck.

I mean, if you if you live there and you have two people living there, and you you're guaranteed a spot, or however the developer wants to do it.

It looks to be some event at the park.

Yes, some people might just have to uh move their car, or are further away and then move it later.

And that's as if I could like there are competing interests in everything we do.

So the interest of everyone being able to have their perfect spot gets in the way of the city's interest in creating vibrancy and activity, and the flexibility of parking spaces allows us to benefit off developers' money to provide parking for whoever wants to visit this park.

The result that we get is vibrancy.

I often give the example of I I used to live downtown, downtown Indy, and the the where my house was on the street was a parade route.

So I just know that like when pride parade is happening, I'm not leaving, I'm not getting out of that parking spot.

The rest of the time I'm so happy to live in a really cool place.

So that is the trade-off.

There are plenty of places in this city where we provide people their opportunity for their own parking.

And this is a place where everyone benefits from a flexibility of parking on asset vibrancy, and that's yes, and so maybe sometimes people are gonna have to walk a little further, and they know that going in.

But it's their people.

But it's their people, and it's the city that benefits from this flexible.

Um, and so the avant does have public parking on the bond is totally private parking.

That was a deal from about 15 years ago.

The TIFF from that project went entirely into streets, so there is no public parking aspects of the Avon, which was done 15 years ago.

And then also to your point.

Um counselor icon, Olivia, signature, and now this are all the 75% open to the parking lot.

So there's like a thousand free open parking spots just in that.

Plus on um Grand Boulevard, whatever between a bond.

Is that that street isn't the all the time?

Yep, absolutely.

So that additional parking that also encourages people who ride their bicycles.

Matthew Wow starting mobility or left attention there.

No.

Okay, so for for the housing per aging it must be 80% occupied by 55 or older.

At least one person 55 holders on the lead.

And okay.

And then that other 20% can be whoever 30 years old most operators and what we in those popular just won't accept anyway under 55 because then you start getting into the rush money you've got to deal with so it's just 55 is cut.

So do you when you're leafing do you dedicate do you fill it 80% by the 55 or older first and then you allow they're just going to leave something to 55 yeah sorry if I don't understand.

The law allows us to do up to 20% we from a standpoint of operations just no under 55.

Yeah we would I mean your point like one in the spectrum could be we just lease anybody the first 20% just to get bill and get cash flow or whether it would be that that that's that would be okay under the no no probably not because we're rolling 80% okay so that is that it's what you might well that's the card rail um so that's on the lease so when I'm 55 and I want my daughter to live somewhere safe I just lease it out.

But I mean is that a thing does that happen?

I'm not saying that's yeah I'm just curious.

You're allowed to set house rules for nobody under a certain age can live there.

So you've got the lease aspect of it under the under federal housing that you can restrict to 55 and all of a and then you can have another house rule that you apply equally to everyone that says nobody under they just can't move in.

Some people might say that you can that's why there's special there's there is a discretion that's like the 20 minutes expression to be a to be a child has a disability that's under you know it's in their 30s and they're living with their parents who move in the 60s or that those are all things that we would just use reasonable judgments to I'm sure federal fair housing record might have an issue.

Alright so a couple things so you've addressed the lack of retail um sounds like excellent question about veteran center love that for the record the VFW does it want to each other okay so now it is kind of how the building interfaces with its surrounding energy and really probably a okay so what do I have all those boards there on yes all right okay so couple things and these are what ifs so I'm gonna vote if one before he comes back and see what it's say but one request that was loaded out there was could restroom public restroom facility maybe they know that their building is not very attractive they know that beautiful add-on in the back to your country government but one thing they were wondering or possible compromise might be is if they just forfeit it entered an agreement to lose all of this hard space and maybe the restroom public restroom facility could come up here.

And then kind of bring them more into this veterans poll.

Another concern is I really don't love, and I know this isn't a you guys thing, but engaging with the hotel, like the dumpster.

And I don't know where that could go.

Again, not necessarily a rebar problem, but as we're looking at how this all interfaces, and then I do want to point out that this.

So Odom Woods used to be a lot bigger where we had science class.

So it's going to feel like this part bleeds in.

That's one thing that the schools are either going to have to sort of accept or we're going to have to work on, but it's going to feel larger.

We do know that we, as part of the trail project, which does kind of meander through the existing footpaths, want to have a direct connection to the back of the VFW, eliminating this drainage basin behind it, so that it becomes one kind of flowing flowing park, similar grade all the way through to maximize the usable service space.

And I think I believe that the VSW encourages that because they want people, they want to tell their story.

They want people here.

So how the building interacts to move people from the building, the promenade, the trail, and more specifically the public parking, then I assume the handicapped row would be through here, is there an elevator to get up to this grade.

Yes, there's a new world there or something.

Yeah.

Um I haven't, I don't think it does any sponsorship.

But I mean, just knowing that a lot of the VFW uh able-bodied would park there, and then maybe the smile, maybe the VFW makes all these handicapped for knowing that if you're able-bodied, you can literally park here and walk about the same distance as you would park here.

But this interaction I think is critical, and that does impact how the building interacts with the neighbor.

Uh I quoted the idea while you're gone about the you had brought up, and you know, maybe there's something to do with granting an easement from this hardscape to make this more seamless, but putting a public restroom up here to help help the facade of this.

I said you know you know your building's not the most attractive building.

It's only going to look worse as more beautiful things get built next to it.

Uh so that I tease that.

I'm going to talk about that.

Well, one of the one of the bonuses for us, and I've got to listen to things I want to go back.

It's your turn.

Um, one of the bonuses about the parking is we do a lot of events, and we don't have enough parking.

So that will allow us to have more parking, and it would be better for the patrons that come there, knowing that they don't have to go to Park and Meyer and then walk or find a spot down the street, they know they can just walk basically half the length of the parking lot already right now.

But I do want to mention a few other things.

Do you mind if I hear that now?

Go ahead, man.

Um obviously, as you guys know, I'm the commander of the BFW, so I'm speaking on behalf of our members.

So we have 437 members right now.

I've got a few notes, so I want to make sure I hit the points properly.

Um we're 100% supporting this project for multiple reasons.

But as we call, I'll call the flower district because that's the thing with now.

But as the city's been developing this, um, our recruitment has gone up and our financial stability's gone up.

Um we're an all-American post, and an all-American post means that we hit every requirement for national level.

There is posts around the state that are literally going out of business and have to close, and post around the country not to close, which means veterans have no place to go.

And we're actually the 100% opposite of that.

We get 103% membership every year.

We've made all Americans, I think, the last five years.

When I took over, we were doing about 25 breakfasts on a Saturday.

Now we do over 200.

And we do over 200 with full staff, and all the money that we raised that goes to the VFW helps veterans.

Um I think it's important that we have to remember that the development that we're doing in this area brings us more awareness.

And the more awareness that we have, we're again we're open to the public seven days a week.

So you don't have to be a veteran to go there.

But when someone goes there and it's a civilian, they go in there and they say, hey, this is a really fun spot.

We have a beautiful deck, we have new bag music, we do events all month.

Then they say, Oh, you know what?

My neighbor's a veteran.

They've never come here before.

So then we actually end up getting more membership.

So we get more membership by more development.

So the more membership we get helps the veterans.

But on top of that, the civilians that go there that are spending money helps us financially, and that helps us help more veterans.

I think I hit everything.

Most importantly, we're 100% supportive of this project.

We love that the idea there's going to be a trail, potentially a park down the road that's going to help more veterans walking and some low serenity area.

But at this point, just the building alone bringing that many more people.

It's just going to help veterans every single day because we do lunch every day, we do dinners, we have live music in the summertime.

There's so many events that we do that by having such a presence of individuals, especially 55 and older, it's a home run for us.

Can I ask a not to interrupt you?

I just want to ask you a question.

Sure.

Do you guys have a I've been in the hall many times, but do you have a specific space where veterans who have maybe PTSD or struggling, give a spot in your building where they can go and talk to another veteran or something?

Yeah, so we have a commercial in the back where we do VA, so we actually rant that out to the public as well.

Yeah.

But we also have a spot when we do we have a service called a veteran service officer DSO.

So if someone's having some sort of issues, which a lot of veterans do, then we get chat with a VSO, and the VSO will either go to their house, meet with them, or if they want to feel safer at the post, then we just go in the back room, and it's quite useful.

That park will be peaceful.

Absolutely.

A nice place to sit and so when a temporary expectation the park will not be peaceful.

That was heard loud and clear that it's to be an active park.

But in the wood, the woods leading to it is where they were talking about kind of having offshoot trails that are more serene and I think the most important part for everyone that's listening that to understand that there's so many posts that are just in Jeffy, it's because of membership.

It's because of lack of people going there and buying their $2 beer or their sandwich or their church and dinner, whatever it is.

But we're open for Christmas, Thanksgiving, and we're full on those days because there's a lot of like a lot of times people think a lot of times people would say, Well, are you guys open at Christmas?

Aren't you going to let the employees go have business?

These employees are volunteers.

They want to be there because they know that there's veterans that don't have a place to go.

And a lot of veterans don't even, they still don't know they have a place to go.

So the more awareness, the more growth we have, the more development we have, it just spreads the work.

So again, on behalf of the VFW, as post commander, and I've been the commander now for three years, and I was House Committee Chairman two years before that.

Over the last five years, I've been in charge there.

Um hundred percent supportive of this problem.

Thank you.

And uh would never be shameless, but I will be author, back to both crew, podcasts, hashtag everyday GSP, and it's all around fantastic.

Thank you.

What the family is like former special forces.

Um IT is the bathroom fee, so I don't know if that's something I'm not speaking out of place.

No, you're not.

We are we want to do want to put a bathroom outside for multiple reasons just because we have a lot of outdoor events, but also, especially if they're potentially a trail back there.

Again, if they someone has an opportunity to come in, they have to use the bathroom, and also they say, Oh, okay, we can now go in, go to the bathroom.

So it's something we want to do, and we we financially um have set money aside.

We've got a very generous donor that is willing to participate in that, and obviously, if we could get help of the city building that would be great, and I think it would be a win-win on both sides.

Um, and it's the same thing when we talked about um giving up part of the parking lot.

It's kind of comical, right?

We're giving up like this much of the parking lot, and we're getting hundreds of more parking spots.

So we're really not giving anything up.

That's not even that's uh that's a great trade for us, but it's it's not even realistic in the global decrease.

It's like thank you to the city, right?

Can I hear temporary expectations?

The developers building bathrooms that they're funding and operating forever on their own guy.

We have I just want to temper expectations about what the building footprint is, and since we're taking asking the developer to take on this forever liability, I just I just want to explore how it probably best fits within the building envelope and this the project site, because even that connection to the VFW is a that's me and Michael Blitzing using the park impact team that we have for the trail to put on someone else's land because the a paper walkway is parks infrastructure.

But this I just want to be very careful about asking the developer to do something that adds an insane amount of money to what they otherwise would have done.

I didn't ask the developer.

Yeah, I want to make sure maybe I misunderstand.

I want to make sure it's included should this get approved and how the inter how things interact.

Sure.

I mean, I think right now we thought, or my expectation was that the public bathrooms are as close to the park as possible, so they serve the park.

And so I just am cautious about moving bathrooms, putting them in their own standalone building versus where they could be already right now, and the increased cost that's gonna add to the developers.

So I just I don't have a final answer.

I just think the should this should Michael putsing and you and the veterans and ratio's gonna sign it, all collectively think that's a good idea.

Well, you and for whatever reason, if we need sanitary, if we need if we need if there would need to be some infrastructure.

Yeah, it I mean it feels to me, I mean whether the whether the impetus is a restaurant or not.

Just hearing this discussion, which I'm just really enjoying, and here you talk about the the post.

Um, I just think, wow, I didn't know that you were there, concerts in the evening, and you know, so my mind's a churning, but it doesn't look like there's a node there, rather than just hey, this trail was past a look you can cut through some mulch and get me sidewalk there.

But if there's more of a node there that doesn't, this is a parts question.

You don't want to take away from they must have it here, but maybe there still is even a I don't know the same.

Maybe there's a bet, you know, four wars.

I mean I don't I don't know, but right it does feel like that.

Let me say within the context that that southern trail is also a fire lane for the fire department to provide fire coverage to this building.

So imagine that at some point with driving a fire engine along this thing, putting out operators, and pushing water onto the building.

We we need to provide that space for them, but within that context, I think we can all continue exploring this.

And one of the things I I want to go back to just real quick, I don't know, forever moving, but one of the reasons we don't want retail in that building, because we think that actually would take away from what the whole project's really the benefit for us at this point.

So if you happen to put retail in there and there's a couple restaurants, then that's gonna take away from people coming in and buying food that we're selling, and then or people are gonna be walking there and they're gonna maybe stop it and shop instead of coming to see us, but now they've got to walk by from Bar Louie, go by it.

They're gonna go by Providence, they're gonna stop, they walk by home two suites, we stop it in the VFL.

Happens all the time.

Gas from the home two suites, so you know it's a little too cold, I don't want to go down to Providence Well Meridian, they come to the VFL.

We get those people all the time.

So that's one of the main reasons we we want it to be just like this, without uh counselor, one of the things that you mentioned in the offline conversation, and maybe working to get the w some additional signage off the whole gridium so we can see that better.

So that's something we're also gonna explore next to that final thing.

That and parks.

I mean the park used to be clearly identified, that's the yes.

Uh and then through this, because this is this the success of this could be on its own, but the driver for this is the east-west, the Autumn Greenway Trail that connects to this to bring people from Midtown and the Monad safely to the flower district.

So, and this is the parts thing, but really bolstering the wayfinding on our trail network to say, hey, DFW, VFW, uh the new whatever's gonna be in the Rose Rose building, like that, this way, uh KP's, I can't Brockway, this way, Meyer, the you know, really actually starting to treat our dedicated trail networks as conveyors of the human being.

I like the idea of having a huge sign that says VFW here, call or welcome.

Yeah, part of that's realistically the where where this where this fire lane slash trail you called meridian, we're gonna get into a conversation about a potential trail head that we work with Michael Clips and maybe it's got that green parks and red signage that we're all familiar with.

It's like an instant go here, something cool is here.

Let us work through that a smart part of the code.

And then can you get with engineering at one point it seems like it would might be a good idea because it's all median now that uh where uh through across the street that that would be roundabout?

Yeah, and that would kind of change some things because I know Michael wants to put a crosswalk there.

Um if there's a roundabout there, then your right turn right in right in right out isn't so annoying for the people exiting the building because they just go right there.

Uh I would I'm happy to bring that up to our engineer, city engineer uh uh uh keys, my comment would come with no funding for a roundabout, so we get it.

It's pedestrian safety.

Um would it be helpful if I make a couple points on the ordinance in front of you in the next one?

Just to explain what it's and five seconds.

Shame on you!

I just want to make sure it's yeah, go ahead.

Okay.

So uh you have you have two items in front of you which were discussed at the city council funding.

The first is the bond resolution for this.

The um the one amendment I would ask is right now that bond resolution for up to 11 million dollars, up to a maximum rate of 8.5.

I would request that that rate is nine percent tax rate.

It doesn't mean they're gonna hit it, but we try to get the development as much flexibility as possible.

So that's the first action item that you have.

The second is the land transaction, and so the develop the CRC in six minutes is going to vote for uh purchasing this 1.54 acres and then transferring that at at below the average two appraisals, then transferring that property to the city.

The two action items at City Council on Monday was the bond for this, and if the bond is passed, accepting the transfer of this land from uh from the CRC to the city.

And how it actually works is, and I discussed this on Monday, if developer gets approval for the bond, developer designs in conjunction with the parks department.

When developer's done designing, they go through all their processes in the city to get their VCA approvals, get their plan commission approvals, get their CRC architecture review committee approvals.

Once they do all that, then the city gives them the building permit, which lets their lenders know that it's time to fund the project that the project can be built.

At that point, the CRC would close on the land, meaning that, and and because of these two resolutions, the CRC transfer, purchase and transfer to the council, council acceptance, it means that the council, at the closing, can use their 2024 bonds, their earmarks specifically for this to purchase the land that we specifically are talking about.

So that Michael Flutzing and Parks will spend some design money now, but that position money is only happening knowing that the developers move forward with the project.

Because on all the pieces of land where we might want to be careful, this seems like a good piece of land to be careful about a project actually happening.

So those are the two action items in front of you today.

And I there isn't there's a amendment, sir.

I don't know John, but I would I would like to see before I would vote on the acceptance of land, and that is, and I don't know for how long we must hang on to it, but if it says then the council is bound within 180 days or one calendar year, I want it in law that we have to transfer it to the parks.

I just don't want that missed.

Now normally in these gee, sorry.

Do you want that uh I wonder if that makes the resolution to accept the CRC land more complicated than these feeding because council can just vote to transfer at land at any time, and I think under when council voted with the 2024 bonds, I think it was even a discussion that some of the money is land for parkland that eventually goes to the parks.

We've got a lot of eventually and a lot of things that I I just would feel more comfortable for future councils, or if something happened after all of us, that that part was safe and secure in the park's hands.

We have a little bit of the same resolution accepts it, and then we'll probably transfer later.

I'm only speaking by myself, too, so I I I don't think you have to disagree with that.

I mean I said, Yeah, yeah, that's the incessant number.

But probably I'll just invent the only concern.

We try to match a mirroring resolution.

So CRC resolution is exactly the same as the council resolution, which is what you try to do when you do an intergovernmental transfer.

So I'm just scared that this additional condition messes up these mirroring resolution.

That's probably something we need to talk to Bradley.

Yeah, we need to come through the point of the ones that it's a pretty straightforward requirement of street code, so I'm not sure if it would be something.

But we'll we'll think about solutions accomplished.

If it needs to just be a free salary, it would be executed.

And MOU would be how we comfortable with that.

Yeah.

This entire transaction is happening this way.

So the CRC's conditional purchase if the project happens with these specific thoughts is a fetch.

Yeah, I like that I think the MOU I do think that in your way I guess that way doesn't muddy the waters.

I'm not gonna be the one that frames out what you guys want to do, because I I'm so biased on this project, it wouldn't be right.

So I'm we can wait and see what they come back with.

No, I'm comfortable with that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'd like to see what they come up with.

Come back to the trail.

Oh, I guess we can't, never mind.

No, no, we can't.

What do you want to wait for?

What's it do your time limit?

I mean, I mean it's a good thing.

Which isn't the force.

Let's for anyone watching.

I mean we're in land use.

You usually financial questions like this go to finance committee, and the reason why is because the the we think through the design, but there is nine months of design and coordination answering basic questions that need to happen.

And the developer is not doing any of that until council responds on these different projects.

So usually we in these situations we understand what council wants and council plus staff to figure that stuff out, but they're not going to go design bathrooms and they need to know that generally the council wants to see something like this before they can spend the next $500,000 on I do think whatever you whatever you come up with, maybe it's a new thing that about the incentive for veterans would be very interesting.

From additional programming, additional opportunity, you are again now as a developer, you are getting something extra.

And maybe you were not even as aware of.

And so in my mind, as a counselor, I'm like, okay, well, you know, you're not going to do this project unless it's going to be beneficial and going to make money.

I mean, business is business.

So let's make sure that if you're now getting additional benefits, that we we as a community and our veterans also get additional benefits, whether that's a good you know, conversation about what infrastructure can be blended into this project, how can this be done so that people actually see the value of having done this?

What incentives do we provide for our veterans to encourage that they not only you know come out there and be there, but for those who might be able to want to live close to the VSW that they may have some opportunity to do that.

I think all of those questions I would like you to take very seriously and not just as a you know tabletop fund discussion.

I think it really matters to us as a council that these things are done in the right way.

Is that are you talking as well, Anita, about um financial incentives for the apartments because I've talked about it?

Departments are price, they're going to be from your description at council the other day.

This is not necessarily going to be for the average veteran, but perhaps we can include some more of them by providing some percentage or some opportunity.

So I just want you to take that very seriously.

There are some benefits to being located there by them for both partners.

Right.

This is what we do, we do public private partnerships we have to fit in, and so we'll take it seriously and look at that.

Um I still want to hear words, which is temper some expectations.

And I'm not going to be whining because we're developers, and this is the risk we take.

Um like tomorrow I'm driving to Edwardsville, Illinois to show this to an investor.

And um the reason Henry exists is because without public investment, there's too big of a gap to make that happen.

Well, with what we're with what the ordinance says with that indoor pro forma, it's razor thing as evidenced by the other developer walking away from it at the different tip levels, so that helps.

So um, but the idea of having a program for um for veterans to be able to lease have a discount is fact.

I think it's really a good idea.

And the reality is we're not going to have a hundred you know veterans live there.

We have three, and that costs us X thousands of dollars a year, that's perfectly fine.

So I think that is something we can think through.

I think it's not it does make the connection.

At the end of the day, you're in business to make money, everyone has right?

Or you wouldn't be in business.

And people do business with people, right?

And what you guys are already doing is going to help veterans.

So if there if there's a little more that you can do, awesome.

It has to be a win-win for both parties.

And right now I feel like we're as the VF governor, it's a huge one.

Yeah, I think I just think that I think we would be brought up potentially a discount on it could be one unit or two units.

Maybe who knows what it is.

Yeah, it could be something small, but at the end of the day, right now it's already only for us.

I appreciate that, but I understand why you're saying pretty much less more than that.

We'll have more to say about that second reading if I don't have all the project.

Do we cross my okay?

Yeah, yeah.

We'll say what he wants to do will be with uh I don't know the process that I think from your processes would have been council.

Okay, yeah.

So I'm comfortable.

Yeah, I think we can depend finance with what what Adam can't, yes.

Oh, I think at least if the day is yeah, yes, on Monday, Council President.

There have been times where CRC project was sent both to land use and to finance.

There have been times where it's gotten sent just to finance.

It seemed from Monday, of course, this can change that Council Austin said this will be heard of lands, which is your so I'm not sure that anyone said it will also been second week over the finance, which is of course entirely up to you.

Well, this group's not not any less competent than the members of finance.

Right.

It's in the titles are titles.

Anybody can do anything.

One thing that I think might give some comfort, gives comfort to me is that we we do have a sort of silent for now this going, guardian, and that is the our uh owner's rep, like the person that represents this project.

And he's sitting back there with David Ford, and the very unique thing about this is he acts as an extension sometimes of Henry's staff.

Yep, but he is an extension of Michael's staff.

So he's overseeing this.

There's a hundred percent trust there.

The uh on Henry's behalf, and he's overseeing everything else on Michael's behalf, which is I've I can't even say it's rare, I've actually never seen it before.

But having that one person engaged by both parties to represent the city is a unique situation that I think gives us a level of protection.

Yeah, you got a job again.

Good luck.

Thank you.

Take care of it.

And I don't know, I don't know if it matters, but um, without you and a few other people, we wouldn't have the debt that we have that have started the growth of the V, which is absolutely a huge game changer for us.

So I know your your heart is what's up in veterans.

Um again, I I love the idea if there could be an incentive.

But at the end of the day, it's gotta be right for business.

And at this point, it's the home run for our posts and veterans.

And if you know there's another little stick away, awesome.

You know, we would love that, but we're very excited about it.

So when I horribly misestimated the deck, our owners are made up the difference.

Yeah.

Well, um, Matt, you're the leader of this group.

What's on your mind?

I am I am too biased to be the one that calls for a vote.

Have a vote.

If you guys want to do a vote, I am going to vote yes.

I I personally would like it to get out tonight.

But I also want to be very respectful.

Teresa, what are you thinking?

Are we dead set on 200 units?

Is that can't from the yeah, I mean is it the TIFF, you just all the math balances closely as I can right now.

Um if it's less than 200, then it's less you know increment uh starts to fail.

Uh we were we're actually higher start with the lines and small ones into twos.

Um what was the original original project?

I think it was 28.

That was with the cross with 180.

Um that I know we don't have a vote, but like I said at the beginning.

We have 437 members, and and we are 100% supportive of this.

So I I wanted to ask Henry a question, and maybe you gentlemen can answer this for me.

Is the reason he's asking the max 8.5 to 9 to be moved to 9?

Is that because of time constraint?

Um sorry.

The industry learning is from 5 to 9.

Um is it just because of the it uh I don't know why that's tied to the ten-year current or something.

Oh, okay.

So yes, the treasury starts getting nuts and I can tell you exactly what happened.

One of our fisheries deals, we had a cap of 8%.

Yeah.

And um the spread that we had to pay the the buyer was X.

Yeah, and that ended up with the interest rate really for the buyer was like 8.15.

Yeah.

So we didn't get the proceeds that we had in there.

So we had the jock, we had to scramble for the closing proceeds.

So that just gives us some cushion.

The market's out there instead, it's gonna be what's gonna be.

But if it's if we cap up the ordinance and wouldn't want us to come back, you'll that's a horrible discussion.

Let's raise the nine to nine a quarter, you know, because there's problems.

The Wall Street Journal on your side that you read the article today.

No.

About apartment building.

Oh, yeah.

Yes, you did.

We have the uh the uh actually, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, oh yeah, that's that's the trends around the country right now.

And the building.

Okay.

One argument or one lobbying point I would make is Michael can't start on any of this stuff until this gets approved.

So when you said the layout of these back windows to the school, is this how it's gonna be is this how the building's gonna be so that the uh tenants aren't facing the school or the but they're directly facing it, but yeah, so what is their phasing this basing the I thought you didn't want that to happen.

No, the the sideline, the visual sight line.

So if you're at 42 feet, then you take you take the 42 feet height, you take the distance from the bottom of the building to the wall, and you factor what the hypotenuse to see how tall the wall needs to be so that the line of sight is not is not directly at.

I mean you're gonna see the school building.

But okay.

I must have misunderstood you.

I apologize, Council Spiner.

No, no, it's just when they're out there in their gym shorts, is what most of the right, yeah.

Yeah.

I get your point.

Teresa.

It's a very good point.

Very good.

Okay.

Yeah.

So there's enough distance here.

I'm glad you asked that question.

I wouldn't have thought of it.

Oh no, not our aesthetic.

Yeah.

I didn't hear it, so I'm glad I don't know.

Teresa, I need you what else, what other questions did you have?

I mean, I have my typical concerns about apartments.

I always do.

I you know, I wish I had a little I've done a little bit more research on this.

I obviously it's gonna sit there.

Your uh your points really weigh heavily on I mean that is very important to me.

So um, and obviously the park.

Um so I you know it's a lot of apartments right there.

I think it is more than a thousand, but not to this um buy it, not to do this ranch.

What do you mean?

Okay, they are specifically 55 and over.

Oh, right, and no, yeah, that are right for anybody.

That's the other portion of it.

Yeah.

So okay.

If I I would like to make a motion that we send this back to city council with a uh new uh positive recommendation.

Those in favor.

Aye.

Aye.

Did I hear four eyes?

Yep.

Uh so it'll go back with a unanimous positive recommendation with caveats that you will bring back research on better incentive.

Um in the continued collaboration on things that the BFW might want to do improve their location, you can work together with Sarah.

Will you work with um who's gonna tell us who's gonna work with Henry for the MOU?

Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate that.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you.

Thanks so much.

So, Matt, would you want if you were in science class right there?

I think it would be a good interface with the schools, and we're calling it the flower district.

The kids can decide if it's red lights that are gonna go in.

They grow at different heights.

They grow at different shines.

You don't like a fan.

This is an educational situation along that.

So we'll get into anybody there.

And that's some things that grow slower, are you put a ginkgo in there?

It's gonna be tall enough that it's gonna be a good one.

But it's gonna take a long time for that ginkgo to grow.

The kids know that they were here with dinosaurs.

I mean it just is very good.

Um that's one of the things we're excited about students of potential department there.

Because not only will that bring trap to us, but if we can have awareness and you know, there could be a rotating monthly or quarterly thing about each war or about a specific veteran or a local veteran.

So when the kids are watching with their parents, can explain to them you see those little placards and stuff.

So I have a I have a favor to ask.

Go on.

We have two gentlemen here today that came to talk about the micromobility um piece of our agenda, but it doesn't look like we're gonna get to that tonight.

Um I just wanted to ask uh a point of privilege if they could just very quickly just say why they came and and um thank you for that introduction.

Um my name's Dakota.

I I've been good friends with George and started a group called Strong Towns.

We talk a lot about micromobility, and I know you're you put in a lot of work for an ordinance that is currently in development.

I'm not sure if it's moved up from where it was very last week.

Um I just wanted to offer a few thoughts to the guy who rides the bike for most of my trips around Carnival.

Um I emailed the counselors who are working on the ordinance.

Um an excerpt from an article recently was called Who's Afraid of a Class and Bike.

She writes in this this kind of uh column.

Quote, just because a bike can go 28 miles an hour does not mean that you're gonna feel comfortable doing that, and most people don't.

Um I learned this firsthand on that trek last ride, which technically allowed me to achieve two or deference level speeds, but only for a moment while we're just on a handk flat road.

For the most part, going fast wasn't just difficult, it didn't feel natural in the places that I tend to like.

So I'm sharing this because the bottom line is as I see it.

Um the reckless riding that we often see on the bone on and other mixed use isn't happening from class three bikes, it is from bikes with wattles, or I actually heard a couple of the gentlemen earlier tonight talking about the electric um like dirt bikes or electric motorcycles, they are a different thing.

Um I'm just here to advocate, and while I understand that it probably has happened that someone has written recklessly on a class three bike.

Um I think the machines that are more likely to enable that behavior are the class two throttle or these other things.

It's kind of hard when you start classifying them, right?

I have a class two bike, please don't.

Well, right.

Um again, when you when you see the often younger uh men who are on these machines, they're not like pedaling like they're in a cycling tour event.

They're pulling a throttle and whipping through people, and that's what makes us uncomfortable.

Um again, I ride my bike a lot.

I write it for air in social outings, so often to go out for dinner at home with money on.

I wrote it to the library tonight.

Um there's endless data, which I know to different levels you all appreciate and have consumed that shows e-bikes increase the miles righters can and will travel for a trip, but also be a number of trips that they will take on their bike.

Um those are all I think ambitious and noble goals that leaders we should strive for.

Those are all, I think, ambitious and noble goals that leaders we should strive for.

Um every time somebody takes their bike, that's less stress on our infrastructure, less traffic on the road, less congestion, less pollution, and generally contributes to a healthier um citizenry, right?

Like we have people taking bike trips, that is a good thing.

Um so I just wanted to ask.

I know that there might be federal or state guidelines that have informed how you think about what's allowed and not allowed in certain places, uh, but I ride class threes.

I think there might sometimes be misunderstanding into what they are and what they're capable of.

Um I also think intuitively when you look at class one, two, and three is like the three books the worst because it is the highest class.

Um but again, it doesn't have a throttle, and to make this thing go fast in a way that is like unsafe and intimidating is in effect just as difficult or easy as it would be on a cycling uh like a two-ring bike that has no assist.

We often see those riders in spandex getups flying through the trail as well.

So you can understand that just because it has a motor doesn't mean it isn't inherently going to be doing those speeds.

So I'm just asking for as you continue to mold this thing and turn it into the law or caramel land how to consider this and and not set us up for a future where you know 30 somethings going to the grocery store end up getting a line because they are on a class three bike, not necessarily riding recklessly or irresponsible that material.

So the the intent in the the language currently has you you can't be pulled over for riding it right.

Just existing bike.

Uh you'd have to be doing something stupid about it.

And then what it does is it gives the police officers teeth, right?

Um, but they will have the same T for T for all types.

It's just the class three, uh, and you can say it is it's placating the public, but that is the so having stronger teeth if you're jackass on a class three versus a class two, right?

Likely stays, but you will know you will not get pulled over or fine.

I mean, the police officer they don't know how to tell the difference, so they're not going to.

If it has pedals, you have to be doing something dumb to get stopped.

Yeah.

Um, I don't know if that helps you or no, it does.

So just to be clear, it for my understanding, what you're saying is the way it's written in the ordinance, is to uh please a general public who might be upset or afraid of the irrespensable class three.

The collective opinion of the public, which is who we're charged to take care of, of course.

The class three bike, and maybe it is intuitive because it's the number three, and can go the can go the fastest, but it takes a lot of work, right?

Poses a larger threat than one that can't.

I understand what you're saying about throttle, which is not throttle.

Um the bikes that have been stopped that are not the electric pellets bikes, have primarily been class three.

So there's a little bit of empirical data.

Not enough to say that all class three bikes are bad, um, which is why we did not want it to be, and the police don't want it to be you you're going to be discriminated based on what type of mic.

Right.

If it's manually, if it's got a manual assist, you you have to break off.

You have to be a real jury.

So I and then yeah, if it's on a class three, it is I think it is a stronger fine, or but all of that is also at the police officer's discretion.

So one more follow-up, and I appreciate all the context, so thank you.

Um in the ordinance, it specifically says they are prohibited.

So in the printed one that I reviewed from the last meeting, maybe that language is changed.

Yeah, I don't think I sent you the most recent one.

So that's what worried me.

I worry that if something happened, like I don't I have a I have a nice bike, I would hate to get it impounded because we've written uh legislation that is uh impounding class three bikes.

So whatever it might be.

I don't believe that is our intent, and if that's not translated to ink, then that was a good thing.

We'll fix it to change it too.

Yeah, so because that one, yeah, and not the invisible.

Well, I should have said that initially, that the prohibited word it said class one and two are permissive to read the prohibiting.

So I read that we are, it did say that originally at least I remember that.

But I I think we changed it in the second iteration.

Maybe.

I don't know.

I should have asked that before.

I said, No, no, no, it's not a subject to greater fines.

Um I don't know.

We'll have to do that.

We have we have there have been seven iterations just on my side, so I've here's the thing.

I appreciate that change.

And I think it's really important, Dakota.

I first of all I want to thank you so much for meeting with me and having that discussion because I I would I have an understanding.

Because I I would I have an misunderstanding of what I mean and you're you're you're an expert in this might, you know, these types of bikes, so I appreciate that.

Second of all, I think it would be great once we put it back on the agenda that you come back and be a part of the conversation.

You and Jordan, be a part of the conversation.

Please come back.

And if I have to notify you just to let you know to say, hey, it's good definitely going to be on the land use meeting tonight.

When we do decide to do the deep dive back into it, you both are a part of that conversation.

And understand that this will be introduced to the next council meeting, and there is a lot wrong.

Yeah.

From page to page.

But that's because we don't know what we're doing.

Yep.

But we have we can't just we we've seen it for months, we've been talking about doing it, but until we have something.

We we have to introduce something that then can come here.

It'll come and then we can pick up.

So don't be scared of it.

When you see it, yeah, when you see it on the agenda for city council.

Sorry, I should have said that, Matt.

Thank you for bringing that up.

Because it will come back, Helene.

It's not going to get passed on day and the way it's written, it's atrocious, and no one can read it anyway.

No, they're going to say atrocious.

Oh, come on, it's less atrocious.

I agree, but it's still pretty bad.

I appreciate it.

You did a great job.

You did a great job as a Don lawyer, but we really need it.

Okay.

Well he cleaned that part up.

And he's working on it.

So please, please come back.

Um you'll see it on the city.

I think it's coming this uh 28th.

The 28th, right?

20th.

28th.

We have we have a claims meeting on the 28th.

Exactly.

Because there is no meeting the first Monday, it's Labor Day.

It's September.

So the September 15th.

That's right.

Plan Commission September 2nd.

So can you can you get whatever your final bird survey to Jessica so it gets on the agenda?

Um put all the training in that room on the right.

It's it's 8-7.

Okay.

We can talk about that later.

Yeah.

So you guys don't have to stick around if you don't want to.

Um this is we're going to talk about infrastructure projects.

Oh, okay.

Well, all right.

Well, yeah, thanks for sharing.

I'll send this to you.

That means we did something right.

We've been known from time to time.

From time to time.

Yeah.

We did that.

Yeah.

But when it comes back from City Council September 15th, it'll get sent to land use that.

17th, sorry.

Yeah, the 17th.

I mean it'll be in my own.

Yeah, it'll be on the 17th here.

So put that in your calendar and I'll send you an email of it.

Yeah, again, I appreciate the time.

We all see the same problems, right?

Um much appreciated.

I absolutely love it.

And thanks for coming tonight.

I really appreciate it.

That's good.

Yes.

You're welcome to stay.

Yeah, we're going to talk about projects.

I'm hoping you might answer.

You might be interested.

I mean, I just don't want to bore you guys.

Yeah, here.

That's cool.

Thank you guys.

Appreciate all of that.

Thank you.

I've got that, please.

Real quick, while you're on camera, uh trail comes up and say, I'm not sure.

Thank you.

Which one?

What are we on here?

I think company for a record.

Okay.

And this is what the CR is going on for Matt right now.

That's a good point.

Um we need to actually do we do that tonight.

Do we need we need to send this out as well?

Well I thought we did them both.

No, we only did one.

We didn't.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We need to actually let's can we just can we just put these on the record?

Just do it.

All right.

All right.

Okay.

So I'm going to uh r remove rescind this last vote that we did and rewrite re rebote.

Is that something we can do today?

Or can you just vote on the other side?

Can we just vote on that one?

Oh, just the next one.

Okay.

All right.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Making it more complicated.

Resolution CC 081825-01.

Um I move that we send this back to City Council with a positive recognition.

Session.

Hi.

We good.

I'll take the nodding circle, yes.

Sorry to complicate my matters here.

Okay.

Projects.

So in October of 2024, this council and primarily this body embarked on a very ambitious in what I would without bashfulness, say the best infrastructure project the city has ever seen as far as thoughtfulness in the projects.

Here we are, eight months later.

Here we are eight months later, ten months.

October?

And I'm not sure everything that's gotten done.

So I want to go through the project list, talk about the projects.

Are they being done with the intent and spirit that we intended them to be?

We can get an update on Mr.

Ford is here to give us an update on the projects.

He is overseeing for the city, please, sir.

I printed off the MOU.

So if anybody wants the MOU that was passed, what this did was really give some teeth to our desires so that it couldn't be misinterpreted or undone or one.

Oh it's a packet.

Yeah, sorry.

You should start emailing her.

No, you don't have to treat these you have.

I know what the MOU says, so and I can share with Matt so if we can.

I got funny.

I just didn't know if Jordan are okay with that lease.

Okay.

There we go.

Yep.

Okay.

So on the back of the emotion, the very is the appendix, which is in extremely fine print.

So I printed off just the appendix and much larger print.

So we would have it.

He's nice that.

Yeah.

To the old ladies.

Thank you, Matt.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate that.

So this journal.

Okay.

So what this is is what got through the final BPW everything.

Approved.

Then the last thing is the final worksheet we had.

So in theory, these should land these, but there may be some language differences.

I think it's important to have this, because this had a well not legal words, descriptive words of what our intent was.

I did have the exhibit.

I do have the exhibit for the ordinum exhibit A, which gets credence to everything we're doing, but not that I think we all have read it.

Yep.

Is it just anyway?

I didn't know if you were 47 feet.

I thought it was 45.

No, sorry, can do it fast.

Don't try to steal my mind from all over the interest.

But anybody got you.

Everybody's good?

You got it.

Okay.

Oh, I said this was final.

It's not exactly final.

The last update I got on this, on these projects, on all of our, and it's not just these, was March 20th.

A lot of this is now dated and inaccurate, but at least it kind of gives us an idea of how well we estimate timelines.

Thank you, sir.

Okay.

136 and ironwood drive roundabout with enhanced crosswalks.

We initially had allocated 4.750,000 dollars to Mr.

Ford, you've got uh portion of that one.

That's the trail.

The the uh part the part uh my understanding is that it's been under design and that we are just waiting on the uh line work that shows the exact boundaries of the roundabout and demolition before so I'm gonna do my best to not be overly critical this evening, but if this was a municipality I represented, and this bond went through in October, I would have engaged on nearly all of them that we knew we were doing the whomever the engineer was going to be right after and started working through that.

They could have even started some design work because there's no engineering firm out there that's not gonna start working with the hopes that before or on the funding date, which for us was late December, they are going full bore, and some things can just be designed, some do take a long time with land acquisition and environmental stuff.

This is one that I thought we would be further along on.

I really did.

But there's been some moving parts, and I do oh you wanted to make you uh in part of it, I'm not saying you slowed down the project, but part of it was you took the time to make sure, because it was a little bit controversial to go and spend time with homeowners.

So that does factor in.

Um so I would say anticipated, I'm guessing here, but I can tell you what what Brad told me.

Please uh he believes that we will be able to have the pool demolished by the end of this month, early part of September.

Duke is done with their, excuse me, the utilities are done being marked.

So now the final design process for the actual roundabout is in progress in process, excuse me.

And um he's just, as you said earlier, he is waiting for um right-of-way, he's also working on right-of-way as well.

So there's a lot of moving parts on that.

Utilities, and actually, to be honest with you, it wasn't just me who held the project up, but utilities was taking a very long time.

One specifically, they just wouldn't come out in the market.

So the way a design works is typically you do some vague line work that gets approved, and then you go to what's called 30% set, and at that 30% set, you have your boundaries.

And I feel like we couldn't bring them there already.

Because that doesn't utilities don't matter in that situation.

Yeah, no, I disagree.

Then also, I don't know when the designer was hired, and it is a very good design firm.

I'm not gonna throw them out of bus here, but I I because we don't know what they were directed to do, and we've had a little bit of staff changes in that department.

Um so I think that project I would say is on track.

So we're I don't think there's any disagreement between the council and tent and that.

Okay, you know.

Um we, as a council acquired one of those properties within the first few months we were in office.

Um I forget why I was going.

Oh, I spoke with there was another parcel that would have made this easier to build, and the family there asked the city to take the property.

And I I don't know where they are in that.

I do know that Adam uh Councillor Awson had gotten some concerns from neighbors, and it was a hundred percent misinformation.

The three houses going.

North were being torn down, and it just none of it was accurate, but he is working through, and we'll do a public meeting with them, but I would anticipate this one moving forward and doing well.

The thoroughfare study for 116 between Keyso and Gray got extended to Hazel Dell.

And the only reason I know that is because I was driving by and I saw somebody I knew out there and asked what they were doing.

So little things are exactly what we asked for.

They expanded it, which I think is okay.

So long as we stayed within the dollar amount, and that I don't know.

But I think it's been made apparent that 16th Street needs help.

So I think it's good money being spent.

Um drive.

This is one that I have a million questions on.

Because we put 12 million dollars into this.

But there was already one roundabout funding.

There was the Grammar C roundabout that I believe was throwing a million dollars at it, or pulled that out.

We got nothing from Grammar.

No, not anything.

Awesome.

Uh there's the road connection.

I got a call from a gentleman on Kinzer asking if we had forgotten about the commitment to connect Kinzer to Carmel Drive.

So no, nobody's forgotten.

Um I would say that Buckingham has done fine, but this is one of several that are tied to other things where I think we need to start putting I wish I would have brought it up today.

Uh timelines on when they must start.

You you know, you have six months to start to break ground or your deal's bully because there's they waste time and try to judge market conditions.

And and what's gonna happen is like the 111th and pen that was approved however long ago, we'll start construction in ten years when it's a vastly different landscape.

Matt, just so you know too, at BPW today, um there was some money allocated for design for this.

I don't I don't know what it was for.

I have to go back and re-listen, but for this caramel drive roundabout, they voted on something at BPW.

Okay.

And I'm not sure what it was.

I think it was design, engineering design.

But the the intent, I believe, it was the intent was, and if it's changed, I'm not saying it's bad, but I think we need to be brought up to speed, was you come off of out of a neighborhood and then it's boom, caramel drive.

And it's to shrink that, make it feel less like a racetrack, put in multi-use paths, try to keep the existing storm sewer and just put structures, move in the inlets and tie it back, is how it was presented, at least to me originally, of what the plan likely was.

But that what I don't know is how we're doing at the MPO.

Because so much of this is contingent upon federal funding, and we banked on that, and I don't know what we've been awarded and have it.

And I'd like to have better updates on that.

Uh another when you're talking about um Carmel Drive in Kinzer, that was in Planning Commission last night as well, um through um DP.

They were doing their DP for part of their parcels, the South Empire.

That back up to 502.

And that actually came up because Jeff Nola had made mention that he didn't want to see that that intersection the road to be wider, but apparently city engineering wants that road narrower like Kinzer is now in order to keep traffic slow through that intersection.

So I just I wanted to.

I would agree with engineering.

Yeah, well, and I agreed with it as well.

So I just wanted you to know it was a topic of conversation.

Thank you.

There's also designed um pictures.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So here really it's about where's our budget?

There's 12 million dollars there.

We could be if if we got MBO money, we could be well below that if we didn't.

And and that's why it's important because if we did get money and we don't know, and all of a sudden it only costs eight million dollars, then where's that four million dollars going?

Yeah.

One people land here, that might be a total thing.

One thing you can land there is that we might be a total thing of a portrait so that's wait what complicated things as far as computer features.

I just might be to opaque and over commercial building.

They're gonna tap tear down an entire building to build it.

Sure was known.

Of course, there was a building that told us a little bit like an update you're doing all kinds of places.

Okay.

So well, and that's fine.

It is progress, but I would call that a way outside even an unforeseen circumstance and where who's gonna pay for that.

I'm not sure we agree to pay for that.

Um greenway trail, Mr.

Ford.

Um designers have been hired.

Uh there's a meeting next Wednesday, whereby they're going to bring to the table with the par to the parks department their proposed alignment.

So uh from that point of view, the autumn trail in particular, it's a little more difficult because there are right-of-way issues involved.

And so it's more likely that there will be land acquisition, whether or not eminent domain comes into play.

So if you look at scheduling of that when that one probably will be later, certainly than what the veterans trail will be just trying to sort out where exactly can the trail go.

And one thing I want to add the land acquisition since I'm a bulden number quite a bit for a city problem.

Unfortunately, you can initiate the land acquisition unless you do toll kit, but you know you need the entire parcel until the design is complete.

Um by that we mean the engineering design, the right-of-way design, which takes significantly amount of time.

Only after that you can do one of the computer learning positions.

So that's why unfortunately you can't do some of those things simultaneously unless versus full things.

Wait, I'm misunderstanding.

You're saying that in the right-of-way with after all after all this is done, but you would have to take the entire parcel.

I'm just I thought I misunderstood.

Yeah, there are two types of acquisitions that the city does.

When we know that we needed the entire parcel, right?

The the uh ironwood is a good example of it.

We know we just take the whole thing.

I don't need to wait for the design to acquire the plus, and that's exactly what happened.

So it was kind of the hard before the course if you will.

So we acquired it very early on.

And then the the other parts of a project were kicking in.

Most of the time, we just need a sliver or uh a portion of the parser.

We can't do that until the right-of-engineering is done.

Um the design has to be done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because we just don't know where the line is going to be what they you what's what kind of utility coordination is going to be, who do we need to give or acquire easeless from et cetera.

So and unfortunately sometimes the net acquisition thinks takes down special car.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um back then I call it North Spur.

Now it's Veterans Trail.

But uh we got an update on that.

We pretty much know where that one is.

Um Bear Creek Park.

Uh they are in the process, uh council for the parts departments in the process of preparing documents for the RFP.

So uh the hope is to get that out by next month.

Uh, get responses to the RFP, have their reviews, and within three months, elect a VOT developer, and so progress can start making that gate can have it.

We'll need you maybe double and ground that would say next spring.

By the time they design everything else, it's not gonna be it's gonna have to be compiled.

And this is something like a design build above.

So we work a little bit ahead of structure.

Um River Road.

So he uh well, I don't want to waste your time.

What other projects do you have?

Uh let's go down to the number of element station 341, expedient saving downstairs, corral, and the training center upgrade.

Okay.

Uh because of uh let me jump down first to station 345.

22.

So that is for design of new bunk houses on station uh 45, 44, and 45, 42, 46.

Um construction will only be for station 45.

So the other two fire stations are going to be designed because they are they are the exact same station.

So the exact layout, everything.

So what you do to one, you can do to the other.

So right now, hopefully it you can do today.

They did the approved contracts, the DLZ for station 45 and Etika for Station 42 and please.

So with that, then we'll arrange to have a kickoff meeting that will start the preliminary layouts, the release them.

Um get those done.

Uh once those are approved, um, you're gonna do a layout first, have the fire department look at them, everybody less at that, then we'll get to go towards start actual construction drawings and get that done.

The plan would be to bid station 45 in the spring.

Um and then probably start construction probably in May or two minutes.

And that I prepare a budget, that's in the hands of uh Brad P at the city, that's my contact I'm going through.

So limiting budget, I see we have enough funds to do.

So that job, and I might backtracking then because that dropped took priority over station 341 and so now that once we get that kicked off, I'll get back to Brad.

We'll get figured out uh that work is not in contact before we're designed, so that would be the next step.

There's a lot to that little fitting project to the 410.

Yes.

Well, okay.

There's not a lot of um sorry, is this there was nothing at BPW41 today?

Did I recall?

Oh, this one?

Yeah.

No.

There's nothing to done in that one.

Nothing else.

Okay.

And um station 341 did go through some renovations a couple years ago as part of the township project.

Um so, and then HAC system was kind of talked about the uh there needs to be some additional improvements to that.

River Road and River Road Street enhancement.

Um that job, uh we we walk the job, um, parks department along with China Prairie.

We walked the road.

Um obviously the parks department you don't know is putting the trail that goes uh next to that on the east side of it all the way up to 146th Street.

That trail should be completed by the end of this year.

Um downward road now, you see a lot of stuff going on.

Uh some of that sorry, the trail for the parks, some of that is kind of prairie doing their work for what they're gonna be doing, so it's kind of we're kind of commingling forces right now and playing nice on the same.

So um Michael Crochelle is being hired, he's putting together a few proposal.

Once we have that, we can start going to like to try to get this all coordinated as we finish the trail.

Or at least as close as you can.

And we'll say I blocked it.

If you walk the whole trail, it's frequently.

Yeah, quite dead.

Not my actually marked it.

Yeah.

So there's talk, I don't know if kind of furry is going to do it, but they may make that retention area that was just going to be an actual cost.

So which I think would be very nice coming in there seeing the water scene and so just a whole.

But um that that's that ground out there is pretty sandy, and so it percolates, so they got the clay liner and thank you.

Um uh on a level one priority, yes.

Okay.

So on all those jobs, if you have questions.

He represents the city.

Go free.

Oh, you're gonna be sorry you said that, Dave.

I for the last seven, six years, how long have it been?

I have just sorry.

So I'll get three questions.

You're welcome to study.

It wouldn't have been root.

You left whatever you want.

Okay.

I think that's featured.

Good to see you.

Okay.

16th and River Road roundabout.

And I've been told this has been going for years.

It has been designed.

And I one point I was told it was going to be federally funded.

So I don't know.

And I'm kind of reading this on the record, not to show that we're not being kept informed, but help us also stay accountable and know what questions to ask.

But again, it's a funding question.

Like how much did it actually cost?

Because as we get to the end of the year, we need to we need to know where we are.

According to Brad, when I spoke to him last week, he said everything is going to be tight.

And whatever that means.

But is it tight based on what we wanted, or did they add things in?

That is like what I really really wanted now.

Because like when they first started your project, or not your project, but the ironwood around about, and we got a document with 216 houses they were going to take, because they had anticipated running a multi-use path for Miles.

Yeah.

Which is not bad, but it wasn't what we wasn't within our scope.

Yeah.

Um I didn't even know that that happened to be perfectly on.

Oh David missed one.

Number nine, he's handling.

I was at the eight house today, so I can tell you that they are there.

You know, you know what they did?

I will give you an update on that map just so you know.

I was there two weeks last week with Renee.

They had had to dig out the concrete and repo it for it's all framed out, had to re dig out this is that all out, report the cement, and Renee said that it's probably going to be installed in the next month or two.

September is the death, they're going to open it in September.

That's what she told me.

Excellent.

It looks so cool.

I concur.

I concur what I heard from today.

That's awesome.

It's amazing.

Um we put in 250,000 for my for just general crossing improvements at 106 and 116th Street as kind of a stop gap.

Yeah.

To get us to number 12 and no.

Where's the tunnel?

No.

Yes.

Yeah, number 18.

To get us to number 18, and probably there's another one on the tier two.

At 18, you said that's the front.

That's that part is just the trail part, and then we have the actual bridge, like the number.

18 River Road Streetscape enhancement, is that what you're talking about?

No, no, no.

You're talking about we were talking about the 250 for the 1611.

Right.

Those were just stop gaps for those Monon crossings.

Yeah, by the bridge.

The puzzle bridge by the a refresh, if you will.

Uh huh.

Preparing though for number 18, tunnel and or bridge at 106th Street.

Which, and then the same project is somewhere on here.

I'm just not seeing it for 180.

Number 19.

Thank you, Teresa.

Number 19.

Right below it.

Now, these are probably 10 million dollar or more projects each.

We funded the matching dollars because we were under the impression that one of these would get federal funding.

Did they get federal funding?

I don't even know they're going to play for.

So I I don't know.

But I think they are a priority project.

I mean, those are dangerous.

I mean, number 18 was Michael's preference to do get that first.

And these are kind of the reasons why I wonder where every dollar has been spent on these other ones so we can aggregate collect and put it where we think.

Well, so it wouldn't Josh.

I mean, just it's just here for a second.

They've been going to BPW and allocating the fund.

So there has to be a running tally from the engineering department under this sheet.

There's got to be something there that has the total dollar on it.

Which is why this agreement is so important because it talks about exactly how they change how they can change any of the project.

And I'm this isn't like a gotcha.

I don't think the city's doing anything wrong.

I it's just a different.

This is different than what we've done in the past.

Because I think we all took the collective initiative that we wanted to make sure that every human benefits from these in the best way possible.

And sometimes things get thrown into projects, which is not bad, but they have to explain and convince us that it is a the same benefit to the project that the initial scope was.

So I don't know, and I really was hoping to get one of those done.

Just because it is dangerous.

I mean, it's all the Monon crossings, the exception of William very dense, and even those could make the argument just as dangerous, maybe to the motorists more than the walker at times, but in this in this MOU, refresh my memory with the change orders, we we gave engineering basically carte blanche, right?

They can up to a dollar amount.

Well, six million.

350,000.

Right.

Well, that's gonna be tough to do when our budgets are higher.

Yeah.

We may have caught a uh yeah.

Uh because that was the controlled project amount, but that doesn't apply to take a look at number section two at the bottom.

That's our facilities workshop at City Hall.

Sorry, I need to open that cancel.

No, that's good to know.

Um that was scrapped.

Which one?

Number 27.

I'm on page two, sorry.

I probably skipped a bottle.

We skipped skipped.

Okay, let me go back.

We were on number 12.

Well, we jumped around because number 18 and 19 were with number 10.

Yeah.

So 11, you said you were pretty much on a standstill, sounded like the um I can say I can the um 16 pound is done.

And I would like I'd like to know how much it costs.

Like I just don't think that that I want to get in the habit of Right.

What was the final bill?

Right.

Right, sure.

Yeah.

And it does take time for some reconciliation.

And May I have your attention, please.

Holy crow.

The Carmel Clay Public Library has to go.

We'll be closing in 30 minutes.

If you have items to check out, need to make a payment, or register for a library cars off my line.

Please do so at time.

Thank you.

So I'm gonna we it's I apologize, lack of time management skills here, but um I don't want to I don't want to stop this conversation.

Okay.

Um primarily where things start to get odd or muddy for me is on all of the trail connectivity pieces.

Yeah.

Because there was already a whole lot funded.

Yeah.

So I want to know you need to delineate where did that stop?

And where did our money get spent?

Yeah.

Or this bond money.

Right.

This bond gets spent on it.

Um the 12 and 13 are done, but we just need to know the amounts.

Right.

So we need to know the final amount of funding.

And then all these west, northwest trail connectivities, I just I don't know, and I know Ryan Lock has been championing and and just staying on them, but I don't know how it how it ended up.

Yeah.

And we go through some Hazel Delp Canton, that we know that'll that's that's in progress.

That'll be that'll they're gonna break ground.

They're they're in the process of right-away property.

And then when we put in a crosswalk throughout the city.

Oh bless you.

Over here.

Thank you.

I wasn't saying there's something in this error right now.

Sorry.

Mentioned 17 identify it.

I don't feel like we've done 17.

The Western Cross.

Yeah, yes, we did.

It was the ones on Hazeldell from uh score.

And then at 116th Street.

And oh bright there.

Um we have not we have not completed five.

No, we haven't done, but that's what that was.

Oh, I know.

Yeah, yeah.

But it was we got a whole list.

And I want to see if that list stays the same.

Because we got we were sent a list.

17 planned crosswalks.

Has any work been done at Shelburne?

Uh yes, but I think not for the crosswide.

They're working on the um draining.

Yeah, they're working on the multi-use bat that connects up to Shellbourne.

That they're doing.

Um that's on 116.

Um, but I don't have to go back and look.

So we we've got a vagueness here.

And then we did, we gave them leeway to kind of pick what were the roundabouts that needed, and that's fine.

Yeah.

But when we were told it was gonna be these, I just want to make sure that those were done, or they're just what was the reason why?

Like why did they do a different one instead?

Or you pr you asked them to be prioritized.

I do remember we we did have that.

We had the prioritization of the more dangerous ones.

I do know that.

I think we did this was one and then went through, and then yeah.

141st Shelburne roundabout.

I don't I have not heard anything about that.

I don't know.

Um facilities construct uh site selection feasibility for potential seven and eight.

Was told we no longer needed that because the state did a study.

I disagree with that.

Number thirty-seven.

Yes.

Okay.

I still think sorry.

I'm just trying to I know it's been so long because we're right, right?

Yeah, right.

Okay, so you start I interrupted you.

I no, you didn't you're fine.

It's I I was told we no longer need it because the state did one and we sort of know where it's going.

Station seven anyway, except that we also have we ha somewhere in here we've got facilities you study for where they think they might want it to go.

And if you've driven by there and seen all the construction they're doing at that site.

I I sort of been convinced, although it's the easiest site, it's the best site.

You mean by the um are you talking about by the water tower?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But if we could if if the collective consensus is that we don't need to do a study, fine.

I think we should wait and stay church.

Right.

I think we should wait to see what happens with um fire in the EMS with uh yeah, I'm not waiting that long ago this fire standard.

No, we don't have to, but I mean, right.

Because then we know it's staff is funded.

Yeah, it's yeah.

Um are you saying for 37 and 38 you don't know?

Well, 38, I I I feel like we need you got two two of the largest departments crammed onto a spot that never had houses around it.

And now they're trying to do industrial operations in a neighborhood.

It doesn't make sense.

Yeah.

Okay.

If my opinion were asked about CNO, centrally locating our street department to be more efficient for the city in a nice office building where they're not sitting five to a cubicle might be a good idea.

K agrees.

Thank you, Kay.

You made me laugh in the middle of the clock.

Well, I think we should, I think we should do that, Matt.

I think it should be done.

Okay.

It shows good faith too.

We are supporting the street in water.

I think it shows good faith.

They can take care of themselves.

We learned that.

Yeah.

Just kidding.

I'm putting it out there and I was just joking.

Um, so the two parking studies.

Yeah.

Where are we with those?

Yeah.

Yeah, I I didn't we never got it before.

Yeah, I mean, we've really emailed Brad or did you be in the mood to email Brad.

Oh no, that Teresa.

I'm getting mad when you're good.

Go.

I mean, they terrify me.

I'm not gonna lie.

Yeah, seriously.

That Teresa is scary.

Uh that one?

I like that one.

I do.

Yeah, I love it.

Um, I can email him and copy all of you, or just you know.

Yeah, I love it.

I would love it.

Put everybody in there?

Yeah.

Um 45, I'm I'm frustrated with because it that should have been like a two-week project.

Um and they told us it wasn't enough money, or that it was going to be included with another project that's never gonna happen.

For which one?

Uh number 45.

Oh, okay.

Oh.

So they said no.

Well, I haven't done anything.

Okay.

It's literally just purchasing.

The money's there.

Go purchase it.

And if what you want.

Who's supposed to do it?

Um.

Yeah.

Because they want one and it came in at X.

And like you either need to go ask somebody for more money or find one that fits within.

Why?

Um, they would have awning.

It's an awning.

Oh, yeah.

It is.

Okay.

It's needed though.

It really is.

I hope you disagree.

Yeah.

100% agree.

It's needed.

Yeah.

I'll call Bob tomorrow.

I'll give him a little nudge.

And I don't know if it's his all his delay, because somebody had kind of interjected and said, well, maybe we can tie this to something else to get you a little more money.

I actually do remember talking to Bob about a related issue, but I was working with them all that awning came up.

Specifically the renewal of the um catering agreement.

Oh yeah, that's right.

I think we were don't think my word on the football, but I think the ideal was that maybe we'd be splitting 400 plus.

Yeah, because that's you know what I did have this conversation as well because he said it was unfair.

We did execute the agreement for the catering.

And that was a couple of months ago.

I'm not sure where it was standing on the splitting of the cost, but I think it was brought up.

You have that.

Yeah, I'll find out.

Yeah.

Okay.

The big the big elephant in the room here, number 29.

Libraries closed in the time.

She's telling you.

There's 14 million dollars allocated for C CNO.

And uh money's gonna be reallocated.

Uh this is not in any means slight slant to the project or people that support the project, but there is a timeline in which we can spend money.

There's nothing that's gonna happen.

Relatively soon.

Soon.

So the mayor knows that.

This is not no surprise.

Yeah, again, this is not punitive or anything.

And when we are able, hopefully very soon, to do another infrastructure bond, continue to improve our community.

The money can go back when there's a plan that we agree on.

But now there's 14 million dollars that needs to be spent on infrastructure.

Oh good, now I can do my section of the 116 between Michigan and Shelborn, which I was told with an extra 14 million dollars if I asked them to put that barrier in there.

I had a conversation with Brad on there between the streets and for the fence?

In just that section.

Okay, well, since I'm pricing the identical thing right now on an identical stretch, I'll let you know if that's actually money there because that'll support that.

I mean, there were some questions we can talk about this off.

Well, no, but I think that if as we go through this, I think we can make a recommendation.

I I wanted as many counts here as possible for this.

Okay.

But we can recommend like projects.

One I would advocate for as part of some of one of the moon on process.

Uh I would like to throw something out there as well.

Just on the record.

It's not it's not anything I've spoken to the neighbors about yet, but at 146th Street in Hazledell South, that path that runs along the west side of Hazel Dell from 146 to Canton Drive is a path that is rickety rackety.

About 50 feet into that trail.

And it's gonna go from eight feet eight feet wide path to then four foot sidewalk that is the net.

And so they're doing the roundabout work on Canton Drive would be the best for me, having not talked to the neighbors yet, but I'd like it to be considered if we can finish that pathway from Fazildell South at 146th Street, Canton Drive, that would then pick up the the rest of the multi-use path that's just south of there as well.

Because Brad told me there wasn't any money in the budget to do that.

Um, there's three and a half million for Hazel Dell and Can't Drive, and it's a tiny, tiny insignificant roundabout in the scheme of dollars and cents for rounded up.

So if you can't squeeze out building that path out of it.

About $300,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It should be in there.

$300,000.

Pay it with gold.

I'm being high end.

Not meaning high end.

I'm just overestimating.

I'm overestimating.

Because there might be some limited acquisition that might have to happen.

I'm I'm totally fine with that.

I mean anything connectivity, I think it's been a mission follower.

So it's so ultimately what we really need is a full page of all these projects, what the money was that was already set, what is what can be reallocated, and where we can potentially reallocate it to so that it gets used in a timely manner in which we had legit for correct?

Yeah.

And the sum summary of and you know what would really be really nice is if they had a spreadsheet that would just basically uh add a column here that should be.

And contract amounts.

Contract amounts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Contract amounts and um and I I want to say this, I'm gonna say this on the record.

We would be foolish.

And the attempt would never be not to ask the administration, the mayor, if they have ideas for this as well.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Because we did dedicate that to her.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To the administration.

To the that project, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So but we can we can provide what we can lobby for what we think is best, and I'm sure we would find it somewhere.

It is seven forty four adjourned.