All right.

This meeting of the Central Dora Committee for Tuesday, August 26, 2025.

It's 4 30 p.m.

It's now called to order.

We do have a quorum.

And we have one excused absence.

Also want to introduce Matt Fry, the owner of Bubs Burgers is our new member.

We've hit we had a resignation from someone who is their life did not allow them to do this, so we want to welcome Matt to the to the committee.

Thank you for your time and thank you for serving.

All right, we are going to uh start with any public comment.

Um part of the purpose of this committee is to make sure we give the public an opportunity to voice concerns for any vendors, any of our businesses, and I am seeing nobody that is moving towards the podium or give me any indication out of this huge crowd here today.

So uh we are gonna move on to update on cup issues.

There um seems to be kind of a uh I've got a couple of I'm looking at my emails.

I've received a couple of thoughts of people who would like us to move to plastic.

Uh and we debated that as a committee last month at our regular meeting.

I think we came to a good conclusion.

We base that discussion and that decision on current situation uh such as availability of cups, price of the cups, value to our community and how they look, recycling, and um availability.

So if so if anyone wants to raise that issue as another discussion point, I'm happy to take time here this morning to or this afternoon to discuss that.

If it is a settled matter in your minds, I have informed the committee that there is one of our uh establishments here in Carmel that would like us see uh like us to move to plastic, and I've had two counselors give me their thoughts on moving to plastic.

But I will say I do not believe that they've got the whole story because they always reference the lack of availability, and we've solved that.

Unless anyone tells me differently, and Kelly, if you know of anything different, please speak up.

We're we're good.

We are good.

I have not been in the Dora delivery system for since last meeting.

Okay, excellent.

Jeff, I do have a question.

Sure.

So catching up on all of this, I'm missing that one discussion.

Are you moving to plastic or are we gonna keep?

So yeah, thank you.

So the um there was a disc so we entertained the idea of moving of adding plastic to the aluminum.

And for a variety of reasons, including confusion, uh probably everyone would just move to plastic, not the image, not the value to the community.

We this committee uh the motion did not carry.

So we are staying with aluminum cups that are now available.

Okay.

Thanks.

Okay.

And I just want to make sure I'm giving everyone plenty of chance to argue or to disagree with that assessment since you've slept on it.

Okay.

All right.

Um, then the next and and I did plan that this would be without any public comment, that this would be a fairly short meeting because I'm gonna lose a couple of people that I know about here shortly.

So um update from MAC department on signage.

I don't know if you knew that was on here, but we know so uh let me just kind of um uh give some color to that why that's on here.

Do you believe or have you heard that there are any issues with our signage?

Um slipperiness uh peeling up.

Is there is there anything that is other than just an anomaly?

Is there any kind of a trend you're seeing and do we need to be thinking about this in the winter?

Whatever.

I have not heard about any issues recently.

I know when they first went down, there was some adhesion problems because it was put down while it was still wet.

Okay.

So um I don't know of anything now.

Great.

Okay.

So I'll just um if you do hear of anything, we probably need to look at that again.

Um and I did see one pulling up the other day.

I can't I gotta remember where I was walking.

So um I'm also gonna let the street department know they need to let us know if they're seeing something where they're coming up and they're not sticking, and we think they are.

Yeah, they would probably be a much better source of info on that.

Excellent.

All right.

We had some issues.

I got some.

Yeah.

Um as far as I know, they went or going to go and put down new with more adhesive.

Okay.

Great.

Super.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um Ms.

Chair from the slipper slippery uh perspective.

We have not received any concern in legal departments far as any tort claims of any kind.

I I have one uh a couple in my way to work, and I whenever it rains, I test them.

Yeah.

And they are surprisingly less slippery than I thought I I thought they would be definitely material that doesn't really slip.

Great.

Okay.

Well that's the case.

We haven't heard of any issues.

I know there was a concern.

We were on the lookout for any potential slip and fold tort claims, so we haven't received any to date.

Great.

Okay.

I would add uh if there are any issues, just reach out to the street department and we'll we'll look at those.

Beautiful.

Okay.

Excellent.

All right.

Um okay, I think the so then the next uh item of business and why we're probably really here today is to exclude certain days from Dora operations.

Sergey or Kelly, who wants to kind of lead that discussion what we're talking about?

Uh I think we decided that there are several days that should be excluded, or at least um days and times and locations, and that's due to um other festivals happening.

For instance, I will just pick on Chris Kindle Market because they have a lovely boot that people collect and have a beverage in, um, and I don't think they really want to collect that with a Dora sticker on it.

So we would move to exclude Chris Kindle Market.

Uh we would also move to exclude winter games, which is in the middle of January.

There are not many people outside having a beverage.

Um it's a very small location, and during this event, there are a lot of people that just bring a cooler and it's a corporate game on the ice at Carter Green.

It would make sense to just have that be excluded as well.

Devali, this is a new one for me, actually.

Um, because originally they were not going to have alcohol at this event, but now they are.

And next year they would like to also be excluded, and I have two dates.

I don't have a firm date, so I don't know how that works exactly.

Um gazebo concerts.

Uh and that's due to the fact that a lot of people like to bring their own wine for those events.

So we would just move that during gazebo concerts, we lift the Dora from that section.

Okay.

Any questions?

Go ahead.

Do you have a question, Jeff?

I was just gonna question on the Diwali.

Is it a uh are they gonna be doing something similar like Chris Gringle where they're providing a specific fun cup?

No, they actually have the exact same, I mean they would have a cup.

I don't know what that would look like, but I think that it was more the fact they wanted to be able to have cans of beer.

So um, and they have one um beer license and one wine license, as I understand it.

And um I think there's probably some brand recognition that they would like to keep retained.

I have I do have a follow-up question on that.

Is DeWali now moving from midtown somewhere else, or is it still in midtown?

It moved to Carter Green.

That makes it a little bit easier because obviously Midtown, there's so many businesses that rely on Dora that I think it would be a tough sell for them, but um Carter Green is a little bit different since right now, but not that many.

So, Sergey, wasn't um wasn't the whole concept of doing this Dora partly for the festivals.

And so it it seems to me, and I I get Chris Kindle.

So I'm gonna kind of exclude Chris Kindle from my comments, but aren't we starting to kind of tear this thing apart?

Um, and is that something we need to discuss further?

Yeah, I think it's a fair point.

Um Chris Kindle Markt is obviously as Jeff as you mentioned is uh is a very different beast because they have uh different cups, they have a Wundernacht that has even more different cups, uh anything from ice cups and uh rum drinks and some other containers, etc.

etc.

Um winter game, same thing.

Um gazebo concerts, different issue there, uh more of it rooted in tradition and what that event is.

Uh but beyond that, yeah, I think it's a fair point.

Uh it's if Dora is made operational and if we uh reduce the supply issues with cups, it is making a lot of events much easier.

You don't need a festival license anymore.

You don't need outline outlining the um the periphery of the event anymore, you don't need signage anymore outside of what's Dora, et cetera.

But it's um but there are some issues that ATC probably did not contemplate, such as um what if you want to have your own branded cop on for a specific event or branded the beer, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So it I I think a lot of communities are going through exact same questions as we are.

And uh this is exactly kind of question for committee to discuss and debate.

Does it personally do I think it's um it makes sense for uh to have kind of uniformity among all the events and keep Dora uniform?

Yeah, I think it does.

But I also recognize that there are certain events that wherever brand recognition is very important.

So um so I I'm sure there are arguments on both sides, and that's that's what the this committee is for.

But if we're just from a legal perspective, simple from a legal perspective, we don't have any guidance from ATC on issues like that.

Because Bear, it is also new for everybody else in the state of Indiana, including ATC themselves.

Okay.

So a lot of the times they're kind of uh leave it up to municipalities as long as as long as we follow general rules in a Dora statute, I think we'll be fine.

And they told us again and again, as long as you follow those general rules, you can regulate the rest of it yourselves because everyone's spelled is slightly different.

Okay.

So you know we can take each one of these separately.

Do you have a comment?

Okay.

Um let me uh there's a chair I will yield to Matt.

Go ahead.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

It would be important for everyone to to hear the city ordinance, because I know the police could possibly be confused with someone in their car bringing alcohol to a public event, open space, not fenced in, drinking alcohol that was not provided by someone with a license.

So what is the current city ordinance?

Is that is that at our discretion as a city and for the police?

Sure.

Yeah, that's that's that's a very good question.

I think it's uh uh goes directly into a gazebo concert uh discussion.

Is that currently there is no open container law in in the state of Indiana or or in uh city of Carmel?

So um you could, as long as you're not violating the public indox laws or any any other related um state codes, then um you could bring your own alcohol to an event um and consume it within you know uh as long as you're not violating any other state code.

But as of right now, there is no regulation in Hamilton County, as far as I know, it definitely not in the city of Carmel.

So um I I think we need to talk I think we've got a couple issues going here first.

So I'm gonna as the chair throw out that we handle Diwali first.

So share with me again what is their logic.

I uh uh here's what I heard.

I heard they want to serve cans of beer.

Well, so does fork and ale.

But they have to pour it into a Dora cup.

So what's the difference between Diwali and any of our any other festival?

Um our international arts festival that uh you know they're serving the can to beer there on the side of the street.

So why would we steer away from our main premise that if you're gonna walk around it has to be in a Dora cup?

I think that on in this case, um and I'm it's up to you guys to decide.

But I I see both sides of this.

I think that they're getting sponsorship dollars from a beer vendor as well as from a wine vendor, so it would be nice to have them recognize and they can see the brand as people are walking around.

I will also say that it's the same footprint as Chris Kindle Market.

So by virtue of the space, they're probably gonna be staying within that space anyway.

So um it's already sort of roped off essentially, which is what you would need to do for a festival license.

Um so I feel like it it falls and aligns pretty nicely with that.

Um just because you're removing the restrictions of Dora for that particular event doesn't mean that it's not still happening within the rest of the city, and I think that's what's really important is like, yeah, this has an effect on events, but it also has an effect on the rest of the city and the fact that people can go, you know, to a restaurant and get a beverage and walk around and shop while they're waiting for a seat.

So I mean, all of that still happens.

It's just that in the ICE at the um Carter Green, that location would be not within the Dora district for a certain period of time.

So the other issue I would raise is is if they're doing this for branding reasons everybody's going to do that.

And we already discussed this last time about we don't want to get into that.

I I can't support um a festival I mean and I'm just speaking for myself but I cannot support removing Dora from one festival so that they can uh do their branding because that's that's opening in my opinion opening a can of worms and is reducing the effectiveness of this so and I know you're just the messenger I got it.

Yep that's just my take on it.

Are there any other comments or questions for regarding Diwali?

I I would agree uh that I I think that we have these annual the Chris Kringles that are annual that that uh we need to grandfather in and and that's what it is and uh because there's going to be festivals and there's going to be new ones Dwali is in year two and they've already moved once you know so we don't where they're going to go next year you know so I I I look at it as some Chris Gridlow has been around for 15, 16 years where uh has I think it's a two-way street I think it has to you know the the the mugs, their collector items uh you look at the different color every year I look forward to them.

So I I I think it's just two different two different animals and I also think Chris Kindle is what three weeks or I can't remember how many days um you know multiple days I know it's a lot where we're talking Devalle's one one afternoon and and evening so are there any other comments?

Yeah I would just say that I agree with you uh as well one question I do have is if we remove Dora for certain days or certain events then that means if they're going to serve alcohol that they have to go get the regular licensing through the state right that's exactly right.

Yeah and so uh we did I believe we did talk to Chris Kinelmarked and they do want to use the festival license for it as they have in the past we do have that system figured out pretty well I believe I use a Brookshire license for it.

So it for Chris Kittlemark specifically it will be business as usual really Dora for them does not necessarily make things easier.

Because of that collectible items and variety of different ways of alcohol is served it within the Chris Kinelmark grounds and uh from my experience you know I we go absolutely every year the vast majority of people don't take it out of the very much designated area of Chris Kittlemark.

It's completely roped off except for designated entry and uh and exit points.

So it's it makes it very easy for festival license to be utilized because you have a very specific footprint and perimeter of the event.

Thank you.

All right so I I will entertain a motion if anyone wants to make a motion but I'm not seeing any movement in that direction all right um uh the so I do want to explore the comments regarding the gazebo concerts now I know I make you very uncomfortable when I talk about uh the training that we had at the Dora conference about um a community's right to enforce the law which is I'm using those words of that they communicated to us so get ready for where I'm heading on that but um can you tell me what the problem is or what problem we're solving by removing Dora from the gazebo concerts okay I think I can take this one yes it's a little bit here we go it does have a legal perspective on it so what Dora does uh and following up on my previous comment about uh the open container law in the state of Indiana and the city of Carmel is that Dora creates as a certain um basically an open container law within Dora you cannot bring outside beverages and consume them within Dora then Dora is operational you can only buy them from designated permittees and vendors which and again the enforcement issue is separate different municipalities and form differently but um you know technically speaking just when you look at the at the law itself Dora essentially creates one it with exception of Dora beverages that are properly purchased um unfortunately or fortunately is just the way it is because gazebo concerts it's uh as far as I understand it it's been a tradition to you know bring your own coolers with a little bit of wine or beer or what what have you and so far so far as I know we've never had an issue with that.

And so far, so far as I know, we've never had an issue with that.

So from a legal perspective, though, it creates a bit of a conundrum, and especially an enforcement issue for our police department where you know the statute, the status the state statute tells them like, hey, there is an open container law now within Dora.

That event is within Dora during the door operational hours.

Um it's up to municipality to enforce it or not, but it seems to me that there is at least an argument to do so.

Um so excluding that specific event that has had that tradition for many a year would reduce um at least that pressure or make having to make a choice for police department.

Hey, do we are we enforcing it?

Are we not enforcing it?

What does administration telling us?

What is council telling us, etc., what is our own directive?

It in it's excludes that argument in its entirety.

So we will revert back to where we were uh before the operation of Dora.

Got it.

So again, from a legal perspective, it's actually would make things easier for our police department because now we we're worried about you know public in talks and other violations that might result from alcohol consumption, but not from alcohol consumption itself.

Okay.

So just and I'm uh uh if you've got any comments on that, but I do want to ask um okay, so how about late night on Maine?

It's also been a tradition to bring your own alcohol to that.

That's right in the heart of our Dora.

Um my understanding is there's no enforcement of that night, you know, which is the municipality's choice.

So uh square I I get I I'm starting to understand now the deal at gazebo, that's a whole thing, but are we are we now causing problems with Porch Fest, late night on Maine, where we've said bring your own alcohol, all these things.

Yeah, so Porch Fest is a little different, it's actually outside of the Dora.

Um, and that's part of a reason why we excluded that portion of Old Town.

So Porchfest is for that exact reason we excluded it from Dora boundaries, so it's a little bit easier.

Late night of May on Maine, actually I I wasn't aware that that was a tradition as well.

So but it's the same argument would apply.

Yeah.

So you want to exclude late night?

Um it's up to a committee, but um go ahead, Kelly.

Well, part of having Dora is the economic vibrancy.

Right.

And considering that late night on Maine takes place in the heart of our Carmel Arts and Design District, I would say that that space should still stay within the Dora district.

I would not take that out.

Here, gazebo concert, there's not as much ability to go and purchase a beverage.

We we have one place now, but um historically there really hasn't been a lot, so I mean yeah.

Okay, got it.

Okay.

So did you have a comment?

Yeah.

Yeah.

On the um gazebo concerts, we would be in support of um not having them be part of the DORA during those concerts.

Where we have discretion as police officers, obviously, but where it becomes an issue is if someone complains.

Like I call the police department because I know that the gentleman next to me is not supposed to have that cooler of beer.

Now that's where it gets put us put in a position of we have to do something because a citizen has made a valid complaint.

Um so I think it would be easier to exclude the.

Okay, great.

Jonathan, did you have a comment?

So to your point about late night on Maine.

We potentially have an issue there.

Goes back to discretion again, so I'm gonna look at you, Shane.

But we've got a situation where we want that economic vibrancy in the downtown, obviously, we've got late night on Maine.

It's a great community event.

A lot of people come there, bring their own coolers.

We also have the policy or the law that says you can't have outside beverages in that area in the DORA.

How do we how do we handle that, Sergey?

It's it's a great question, and I think some of it comes to individual responsibility as well, and some of it comes to policymaking.

Uh, you know, if uh if we were to follow the Dora up to the letter of a law, then late night on Maine would be a target potentially for enforcement.

But again, it it does come to individual responsibility as well.

So but yeah, that is a that's a unfortunately ATC did not provide us with an alternative.

Their position has changed a little bit as well.

So we're you know, in in the past we were able to use those festival licenses.

Now I say that hey, if the event is within DORA, you have to use the cops.

It just for them, I think it's it was just easier to have one straight rule than um dealing with every single event and how it's run with within every municipality but has a DORA.

And plus for enforcement issues as well.

You just don't know which is it an event that's is um organized under festival license, or is it a DORA sanctioned event, et cetera?

So I think for them, I understand their reasoning behind it.

It's just easier to have a clear-cut rule that hey, if the event is within the DORA, use Dora Cups.

Okay, Matt.

I I agree with you 100%.

If there were wine vendors around the gazebo area that could sell wine, that would make sense.

And tradition would carry that on, but it'd be a challenge.

I also agree with you as well that inconsistencies of a law or ordinance, whatever, is only gonna confuse the citizens.

And it's gonna take a strong public service announcement to say things have changed a little bit.

So to keep it consistent with the Dora district would make total sense consistently with every event.

Jeff?

I was also gonna comment that the whole goal of DORA is to get people to sign up.

And we went from 11 to 18 in the first three weeks, and she was trying to become uh they were trying to get her to be a distributor, and that's where we ran into problems.

Now we have this that solved, and and as we continue to get more and more, uh our volume is gonna go up.

And but as far as uh main street, you know, it would it would push vendors to sign up.

Yeah, but if I'm on Main Street, I'm like raising my hand because of the success of others.

And uh is the committee in support that we need to start advertising no outside alcohol?

I think that's where where we're heading.

And this has been a known issue uh from when it, you know, I took the training three years ago, it was ATC was saying you can selectively enforce, you know, whatever that and and but to the point I'm hearing up here is we need to be consistent.

So we need to start probably talking more about please do not bring outside alcohol as we train our community.

And I'm sure it would be at the discretion of the police chief and the force after one or two, you know.

Hey, just so you know, next time, the next late on Maine, you can't do this.

Right now, it's citation you now, but if it keeps recurring after the sixth or seventh, and people are blatantly ignoring that.

Yeah.

So I'm sure it's at our discretion.

Yeah, with any new ordinance that comes out, we typically have a two-week to month period where we just write warnings for just to educate before we start writing any tickets.

Okay.

And you know, another consideration is uh and when we're dealing with late night on Maine specifically, before DORA, and most of us places didn't have carry-out license.

So you couldn't have an alcoholic beverage is bought at the bar or a restaurant and take it out.

So if your only way were either to rely on vendors but were there already, or bring your own.

Now on Main Street, how many DORA participants we have at least six or seven maybe, or within that general vicinity.

So now there is a choice of all sorts of beverages, whatever you want, wine, uh, alcohol, liquor, cocktails and beer available within you know, 50 feet away from wherever you are on Main Street.

So but things have changed, but options definitely have been added because of Dora.

Okay.

All right.

Um would would there be a motion to make a recommendation regarding the uh gazebo concerts and yeah, I'm assuming you have the dates.

We're gonna do it by date.

So let's see if there is a motion and a second, and then we'll add uh the date to the motion.

Jeff I have a quick question for they how specific do we have to be like this date and time, or can we just say Wednesday night concerts at the gazebo are exempt?

Yeah, so I think uh this one, and just to be clear on this one, this one would require uh amendment to the ordinance.

So the motion would be a recommendation to council, so favorable or unfavorable to exclude gazebo concerts times from operation of DORA.

And whoever's going to make this motion, I would ask you to include Chris Kindle Market in your motion if you I just wanted to bring up one point.

Um you said during the times of gazebo concert, which is seven to nine, and people do show up before that.

So I was just gonna say maybe five, give them a little bit of extra time.

You get to say that because I'm gonna ask you for the date.

Is there a motion?

I would make a motion.

Can I just say so moved with everything that was announced?

Um eliminate DORA at Gazebo Wednesday concerts, dates we're gonna do, and Chris Kindle Market during its operations.

Is that the motion?

Correct.

Okay.

Is there a second?

Second.

Do we have a we don't have anyone taking this down because I'm gonna have to give this to the Calics?

Um but yeah.

Uh and so as per the dates that Kelly's gonna read into the record.

Sure.

And then I can hand you this paper.

Thank you.

As well.

Gazebo concerts from 5 p.m.

to 9 p.m.

That would be May 27th, 2026, June 3rd, 2026, June 10th, 2026, June 17th, 2026, June 24th, 2026, July 1st, 2026, July 8th, 2026, July 15th, sorry, July 15th, 2026, July 22nd, 2026, July 29th, 2026, August 5th, 2026, August 12th, 2026, August 19th, 2026, August 26, 2026, 9, um, September 2nd, 2026, and then um actually September 9th, 2026, and then we have two rain dates.

So September 16th, 2026 and September 23rd, 2026.

Great.

And Michael, would you be able to give us the dates for Chris Kindle Market?

For 2025 or 2023.

2026.

25.

I oh, do you have them, Kelly?

I'm sorry.

Oh, do you want like very specific dates for that?

I do have a well it's something to something.

Yeah, I have November 18th to December um 24th, 2026, and it would be Wednesdays through Thursdays, 4 p.m.

to 9 p.m.

Fridays and Saturdays, 12 p.m.

to 9 p.m., and Sundays, 12 p.m.

to 8 p.m.

There are special holiday hours the Wednesday before Thanksgiving is a new seminar.

Okay.

So the operational hours of okay, and you meant 2025.

Um we can do this was 2026 because I was working in advance of 2026.

I can pull um and give you the 2025 dates then.

November 19, 2025, uh 5 teams 9, and a pop, which is carried after Christmas Eve.

Okay, because there's nothing else going on there.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Great.

Okay, super.

That makes a lot of sense.

Thank you.

For 2025, whatever those dates are.

Okay.

All right.

Is do I have a I had a second, right?

Okay.

Is there any discussion?

Did we put the 2025 dates for gazebo in there also?

Is that just 26?

Is there any more?

Not, because we do have but we do have several more.

Um, I have to get to council.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen because the way council works when we need to give notice for a new ordinance or amendment amended ordinance, and then we need to publish it, and just by the time we do that, 2025 gazebo concerts will definitely be over.

Yep.

Absolutely.

Okay, any other discussion?

Good question.

All right.

Um all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, that recommendation passes.

Thank you very much.

Um couple of other things.

Do we have in the FAQs that go out to businesses that are or are vendors?

Does it say in the FAQs that if you do not want other merchants alcohol in your facility, even though you're a Dora vendor, does it say you must post a sign to that effect, or you must, you know, we don't provide that sign, it's its own sign, no outside alcohol.

Um we have three okay, I'm trying to follow that.

We have three different signs, but if you don't put up a sign, it's assumed that you will accept Dora beverages within your establishment.

Yeah.

So what we're running into is um if you have the blue Dora sign, then the assumption is that you will allow other vendor other vendors alcohol in your establishment.

However, we do know that there are Dora vendors who are a Dora vendor but do not want outside alcohol.

In order to do that, we informed them early that they had to post signage to that effect.

Otherwise, the assumption is it's allowed.

So as an example, the one email I got today is upset because people are bringing in outside alcohol.

I went and took a picture of their front door, they've got the blue sticker up.

Obviously, they don't know.

So I didn't know if we could add that caveat to our FAQs.

Well, if they have the blue sticker on, they're allowing it.

Yeah, so uh a blue sticker killer remind me that it says what exactly Dora beverage is sold here or welcome here.

Uh-huh.

Because those are two different things.

Um the the blue is welcome, the green is sold.

Right.

So it that is on them in that particular way, sorry.

It's the other way.

So right.

So um if if you put the sign that Dora beverage is a welcome here, then you can bring you alcoholic beverages from other.

This is blue.

And it's sold.

Yes.

Blue is sold.

So they need to put you know, no other beverages, or no outside beverages allowed.

Correct.

And you do that, right?

Yeah.

So and Matt would do that probably.

So but what I'm saying is, could we put that in the FAQs?

Because they're not understanding that.

So I've got one of our legitimate big time vendors who does not know that.

And it may already be in there, Kelly, because we did cover this early on, but I just didn't know.

Yeah, I just know that the FAQs are also a living document.

So as we get these questions that come in, we are uh updating that on our website.

So because we knew going forward that we had answers.

Yep.

But then we also knew that things were changing from ATC and that we were just learning things as we were going along.

So we were just keeping a record and then updating it as we went along.

So green, the green sticker means go for it.

In and out.

Um the blue is supposed to mean only out, but that's where I think the rub how is the public supposed to know that?

Yeah.

So we've been kind of telling them put up your own sign that says no outside alcohol.

So you can't you can't put the blue that says sold here and then a red that says not welcome.

Right.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, no outside beverages.

Yeah, we can make that more explicit in there if it isn't already.

But I just wanted to bring up we didn't um make a motion on winter games.

Oh, sorry, forgot that.

Sorry.

Okay.

Um then we gotta start over.

All right.

Uh so the winter games, I don't have any problem.

Does anyone have any uh any questions about winter games?

Uh that's a What are the dates?

Chris Kindle.

That's on the ice.

It's January 24th of 2026.

It happens on Carter Green where there isn't much of anything available for people to have a beverage, so it's kind of nice to look at the same.

Yeah, it's a different amendment.

All right, is there a motion?

Move to approve.

Okay.

Is there a second?

Second.

Any discussion?

Okay.

All those in favor say aye.

Any opposed?

All right, that motion carries.

Recommend to uh to the full council.

Okay, and then the other the only other thing is um Shane, I don't know if you can answer this question, but if I will hide who's on this, but if of um somebody else were if a one of our merchants were to be were to allow their customers to leave the Dora district with something that looks like a Dora Cup, would would the police do anything about that if they noticed it?

As we talked earlier, officers have discretion.

Um we don't have officers that are out there policing the cups, so probably not unless the person was causing some kind of issue.

Okay.

Yep, and that's that's okay.

That's a great answer.

So now my question is if a citizen or um the competition who says I am obeying the rules and somebody else isn't, what should they do when this kind of situation arises?

I would just call in on the emergency line.

If there is any concern, but uh or address it to the city.

Yeah, I would think isn't that more of a permit thing or you know, uh being oh yeah.

So I guess what I'm asking, what's our what should we tell somebody?

Because it is happening.

So what what are what's our policy, what's our process, what do we want to do?

Kelly, or excuse me, Mac, legal, mayor, police.

I've got to be honest with you, in this particular scenario, um enforcement might be a little bit complicated because you don't know if it's an alcoholic beverages inside that cup.

If it's uh I ST, for example, which is not spiked, it is perfectly legal to walk around but anywhere in the city and sip it.

So for police to enforce it, but I would need to have an alcohol testing kit with them, or you know, to have some sort of a you know field test uh for something like that.

But uh in this particular example, the enforcement will be very very difficult.

Okay.

So I don't think I'm talking to enforcement, and we're not talking about going to Sing Sing here.

But if but in order to keep our program, the integrity of our program, it seems to me that we should have a way for the businesses who are following the rules, not to call the cops, but that we say, hey, you can't do that.

You know, uh and please don't do that anymore.

Um that's what I'm talking about.

It's a process to complain.

And of course they could come here and stand up on camera and raise the issue.

I don't know that we want that either.

But I'm talking about who should who should we advise people to call at the city in order to have this addressed?

Understood, sorry, I miss misunderstood the original question.

I I think either legal department or my department would be fine.

Um I would be happy to collect those kind of complaints.

Okay, you okay with that, Kelly?

Unless Kelly feels strongly that her department should I know she has a look on her plate as well.

Why do you not?

And I can I can talk to uh our uh admin staff and designate somebody who would accept those kind of complaints.

Okay, that's what I'm looking for.

All right, so everybody just want to raise the point is it possible that this person or businesses previously had these cups?

Because these cups were popular prior to Dora launching.

You know, a lot of beer manufacturers.

So it was it was something before DORS, so just so we know that possibly he had these or she had these prior to the Dora cuffs, and maybe once they're out of them.

I mean, chances are there's alcohol in there.

Well, well, hang on.

So I so what we're talking about is this leaving your establishment.

Yeah.

That's on you, correct, not so whether they had them or not, if someone's gonna leave with it, right?

That's the responsibility of the of the operator.

That's the same thing.

Yeah, and plus a very serious disincentive to do so.

If, for example, if you don't participate in Dora and you trying to piggyback on Dora, trying to use the cups that look like Dora, that's a pretty serious violation of excise rules.

So I agree.

Uh I mean that you can lose your license over it.

So if if you are willing to do that and subject complaints and the complaint is substantiated, that's on you.

And that is entirely on you.

So um I wouldn't really have too many tears to to shed over the case.

Just for the record, everyone kept looking at me, it was not bugs.

No, it wasn't.

It's not bugs.

It's the same vendor that wants us to move to plastic, if that makes any sense.

The uh the other uh again, the reason we went with these is to not have uh seven different brandings, right?

And I think that's the other challenge here is is I could get a ton of vendors to to make a cigar.

Sure.

But but you know, for us all, you know, one's uh one's gonna say Jim Beam on it, one's gonna say, you know, Tito's on it once we don't want that.

We want a clean, you know, cup, a high end look that represents carbon like it should be.

Agreed.

Yep.

Everybody good with that?

Yeah.

Okay, that gets through our um our agenda.

Is there any other issues that anyone wants to bring up?

Thank you both uh from staff for being here.

Uh seeing no other issues, we adjourn.

Thank you.