Everybody ready.

Okay.

I call this meeting of the Carmel Common Council to order for Monday, September 15th.

We do have a quorum.

First item on our agenda is agenda approval.

All right, please vote.

This passes.

Next up is our vacation.

Do we have Pastor Max Murphy from Kirk Cornerstone Lutheran Church?

Greetings from the members of Cornerstone Lutheran Church located at uh Gray Road and Main Street.

You're all invited to our 11th annual October Fest next Friday from 4 to 10 p.m.

Love to see you there.

Let's pray.

Heavenly Father, we thank you for your work through governments and for the gift of these leaders that you've established to serve here in Carmel.

We pray for the mayor and all members of the city council.

I pray that you would grant them wisdom, discernment, and courage as they gather to deliberate the issues before them.

Guide our city council to govern with integrity, seeking justice and peace for all people.

May their decisions reflect your will and serve the common good of our city.

We pray for an extra measure of your peace, Heavenly Father, to rest upon our nation during this time of division.

Bless our police officers, firefighters, first responders, and all those who serve our city and protect them from harm.

When times are prosperous, may we be thankful and in troubled times help us to trust in you through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amen.

Thank you so much.

Um not a member of your church, but I've been to several events.

You guys do a really great job with community events.

All right, next is our Pledge of Allegiance.

Please stand and place the flag.

Paste the pack.

My Pledge of the Flags of the United States of the area.

All right, next on our agenda.

We had a long day of budget uh workshops the first day.

So we actually have something important but fun today.

Uh for our recognition of city employees and outstanding citizens.

We have the introduction of the new Carmel Police Department canines.

So I'll invite you up.

And uh if you'd like to go to the microphone and kind of uh talk a little bit about what the canines do and introduce them.

There we go.

Ah, there we go.

Uh I am Lieutenant Katie Malloy, and I'm very pleased to um uh lighten up your day with some introduction of our new canines.

Uh I am the canine unit coordinator, a position that I'm extremely proud of.

I'm very happy to be a part of this unit.

Um, canine has always been a passion of mine, and it's great to see these younger officers take on that passion.

Um, these two canines now bring us up to one dog per shift.

So every shift, every 12-hour shift has a dog assigned to it, which is great.

We are going to introduce two of our newest of our four, but first I want to thank some of our canine supporters.

Uh Becky Wanick, who is joined us here today, and her husband Jack Reinhardt.

Jeff and Pamela Greenwalt and the Heroes Club have been amazing supporters of the Canine Unit.

Uh so I want to take this moment to thank them.

First, I'm going to introduce you to Canine Atlas and Officer Mark Parshall.

Notice which officer I introduced first, the dog.

So Atlas is a two-year-old Malinois from France.

His commands are in French.

He was trained at Ultimate Canine in Westfield, Indiana.

And he graduated from his narcotics detection class on February 7th of this year, and his patrol class on August 1st.

So great job by Atlas during his class.

He was awarded first place overall in tracking abilities among all of his classmates.

And that included some canine handlers that had prior experience.

So that is that is a big win for Mark and his dog canine Atlas.

Already they have conduct conducted over 60 deployments.

They have seized narcotics to include cocaine, meth, ecstasy, and fentanyl.

Both of these dogs are imprinted on fentanyl, which is not common, but we're very happy that these guys are trained in that, and it's going to help us a lot to keep the community safe.

He's also assisted in multiple felony stops and warrant services.

So give a round of applause for K9 Atlas and Officer Parshall.

Avoir.

So that's a really again awesome.

This is a first-time handler, first-time team, and they're already killing it.

He has already conducted 19 deployments, resulting in the seizure of various narcotics, including marijuana, cocaine, and other controlled substances.

K9 Rooks have his deployments have also resulted in the confiscation of two firearms from prohibited individuals.

And if you notice the dates and when they graduated, these teams are just getting started.

So we're very happy that they're able to be a part of our unit and complete us so that we have one dog per shift, which is pretty amazing.

Thank you, Officer Willow Height and K9 Rook.

So in closing, I I again, the community support is so important.

Um on the back of our Carmel Canine t-shirts, we have a logo.

Becky, you want to stand up and show off the logo on the back of the shirt.

This is unexpected, but on the back on the back of the shirt, it shows four paws, two feet, one team.

This is the highlight the partnership needed from each officer, human and dog.

Thank you to all of our Carmel PD staff and supporters who have been our vital partners in helping us achieve our unit goals and be our best to serve the Carmel community.

Thank you very much.

Um don't go away just yet.

So first off, thank you.

This is kind of what we need a long day, so it's it's very nice.

Uh when this is on the agenda, though, Jessica asked me, I wonder if we were introducing or swaring, swearing them in, and I was like, How do you swear in?

I don't know what I was gonna do there.

That's a good question.

So yes, yeah, these guys, you just want to introduce them.

Okay, well, great.

Could we get uh a picture of them with the I don't have to know if anyone would take a picture for us, but get a picture of the canine and the councils?

Come on up.

Yeah, if someone volunteered to be out the file.

Thank you so much, and it's a great reminder, everything CPD does.

All right, moving on to our next item on the agenda.

We have recognition of persons who wish to uh address the council, the blue card section.

I do have four tonight.

Just as a reminder, you will go up there when I call your name.

I'll let people know who's on deck afterwards.

Um you get three minutes.

The green light will start when your time starts.

Yellow means like 30 seconds start to wrap it up, uh, or you have 30 seconds.

Red means kind of finish your thoughts because we do try to respect that everyone gets three minutes.

So, first up, we have Rose Popovich, speaking of support for the arts, and then after that will be Kay Gaither.

Hi, I'm Rose Popovich, and I sent all of you something last night with my thoughts.

I got to watch a little bit of your struggles and questions this morning and this afternoon, and was very impressed with the way that you went through things, and so thank you for a long day.

And I know you have more time tomorrow, but I wanted to just reiterate based on what I saw today.

I didn't feel like there was a real definitive decision, but I believe that we probably shouldn't be starting something new when we have a lot of budget cuts coming.

And so I would like to see the arts funded as much as possible for this coming budget year.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Next up is Kate Gaither talking about the city budget, and then after that is Jeff McDerbitt talking about arts funding.

Indiana is a Republican supermajority state.

Republicans have been in control of both houses of our legislature for 20 years.

Hamilton County has been considered a red county for almost as long.

The occupant of the mayor's office and the composition of the city council indicates Carmel follows suit, although voting records reflect a move towards purple.

During the recent election process, during the recent excuse me, election process, all Republican candidates promised to pass a quote, tax break, close quote, if elected.

The governor's candidate, all Indiana House candidates, as well as all Indiana Senate candidates warned they would cut taxes and expect to operate government on less revenue.

Republicans created this crisis.

Their intentions were known.

Predictions of cutting services were made.

Things would not be business as usual.

None of it is good for Indiana, and yet Republicans were elected and sworn in before the legislative session was gaveled in.

As promised, the first action of the 2025 session of our legislature was the passage of Senate Bill.

Indiana residents would quote get back some of their hard-earned money, close quote.

It was obvious in February and March that less money would be available from the state when budget time rolled around.

Elections have consequences, I'm told.

Well, I'm here to be sure that the record reflects Republicans are responsible for this mess.

At the last council meeting, the foreign the four and a half hour meeting, we heard counselors comment about the very difficult, very restrictive law passed in January that it would affect funding at every level, that everyone would have to tighten up, that their hands were tied.

It's your job to prepare a budget.

Stop whining, accept your responsibility, and prepare a budget that is efficient as possible with the money that is available.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Next up is Jeff McDermott speaking about the arts funding, and then after that is Chris.

I apologize.

Um, Garagia.

Um Gajaria speaking about collaboration opportunities between students in the city of Carmel.

Thank you, President Osin and members of the city council.

I've appreciated the opportunity to personally meet with you one-on-one and to also address you collectively.

I know that there are budget challenges this year due to SEA1, and I appreciate that you've got many difficult decisions to make.

Of course, part of my job is to be an advocate for our arts community.

I hope you feel that I've done that forthrightly, and I hope if you feel that I've also done that respectfully.

I don't sit in your positions, and neither I nor others uh have the same kind of information at hand that all of you do.

My goal is to simply speak for the Allied Solutions Center, the Great American Song Book Foundation, and our six outstanding resident companies, and to do my best to uh ask the right questions and attempt to inform and be as informed as possible.

Now many art supporters attended this morning's budget workshops.

We were uh actually keenly interested in the presentation by Kelly Douglas regarding the proposed experience Carmel nonprofit.

What we heard is that nearly 1.8 million dollars is being proposed to fund Experience Carmel next year, and that at some point it's expected to generate some savings for the City of Carmel.

However, we have not heard a clear explanation of how or where those savings will occur, nor have other details been shared.

What we heard this morning is that any purported savings seem to be based on speculation rather than studies.

There's been no feasibility study performed to determine how experienced Carmel will work or even if it will work.

Governing documents for the new organization have not been prepared, and apparently an application for nonprofit status has not been submitted to the IRS for approval.

Until this morning, the name Experienced Carmel had not even been registered or protected.

I'm advocating for our organizations.

I'm not advocating against funding decisions for any city departments.

Of course, Experienced Carmel is not a city department.

It's a proposed city funded nonprofit that would remove responsibilities and personnel from the city's marketing and communications department.

Our concern really is that oddly, the funding for experienced Carmel would come out of the city's arts budget.

Creating Experienced Carmel will cost uh nearly 1.8 million dollars, and the arts budget would be reduced to cover that new expense.

Of greatest concern to me and those I represent is the $220,000 reduction in the Carmel Arts Grant, which uh helps benefit the Great American Songbook Foundation, our six resident companies as well as others.

And the 100,000 proposed reduction to the Allied Solutions Center's management fee.

These reductions are not the result of budgeting constraints caused by SEA 1, but rather a decision to pay for experienced Carmel using arts funding.

I hope in your deliberations you'll ask and obtain answers to the following questions.

Number one, if the marketing and communications department is performing more efficiently now in the past, as stated by Kelly Douglas, why is it necessary to create Experienced Carmel?

Number two, why would the money to fund Experienced Carmel come out of the arts budget when Experienced Carmel is not an arts organization?

And number three, why when the arts have been approved, have been proven to be a sufficient economic and cultural driver in this community, would we reduce funding for it?

I appreciate your service and thanks for the opportunity to speak to you tonight.

Thank you.

And then Chris, you are up last.

Thank you.

You get to go?

Good evening, Council members.

My name is Krish Gajario, and I'm a senior at Carmel High School.

Um so just right off the bat, the two things I'd like to talk about today is one, I'd like to um introduce myself and establish um just some background of some projects I've been working on for the past year, and two, discuss some opportunities of collaboration between the students and the city of Carmel.

So around a year ago, I founded my first nonprofit organization, Pages for Progress, with a very simple goal to increase book availability and accessibility to educational materials for refugee populations across Indiana.

Now I'm proud to say that over these past 10 months or so, I've been honored to distribute around 1,500 books in partner with around five Indiana-based organizations.

But the thing I'd like to emphasize the most is that none of this would have been possible without the giving mentality in support of the Carmel community.

Now, from day one, the Carmel Clay Public Library, for example, has been incredible, notifying me every time they've had books ready for distribution and always being willing to donate them to my cause.

And from the media specialists at Carmel High School to community leaders right here in this very room, thank you, Dr.

Joshi.

I've been honored to receive advice and guidance throughout my entire process.

So for that, I just want to say thank you.

Now, this support had given me the confidence to start my next nonprofit organization, LaunchBed.

And the idea behind LaunchBed is that students in Indiana and beyond that have a big idea are provided with microgrants and mentorship.

So the microgrants are 250 to 1,000 dollars and intended to help them bypass all administrative tasks and barriers that go behind starting an organization.

Firsthand, I've seen how many great ideas exist within the student body of Carmel, and I would hate for costs and administrative funds to be the things to prevent those.

Now, with Launchpad, um I would like to say that once again, from expanding my network to finding funding opportunities, the city of Carmel has been instrumental.

So once again, I just want to say thank you.

Um, thank you for creating a community in which students like myself are able to contribute to something bigger than themselves.

But um beyond just a simple thank you, I would like to ask an important question.

Uh, what opportunities are there for me and other students throughout Carmel to partner with the city council to face important social issues within the city?

Um, between Launchpad and the incredible student body we have here in Carmel, I believe that there's a lot of room for collaboration to address many social issues from financial literacy to resource unavailability in certain communities throughout Indiana.

So that said, um, Carmel has been supportive to me every step of the way, and I believe that right now I'm at a stage where I'm looking forward to giving back in whatever uh whatever way I may be able to do so.

So um once again, I'm just gonna wrap up the way I started.

Thank you for all your support.

Um, thank you for contributing to the great city that we have that allows students like myself to pursue such wonderful projects.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um we generally have a rule about not having uh back and forth with, but I make an exception for student young students who doing positive things in the community.

So if you could do us a favor, please, if you don't already have our contact information, we get with Jessica to get our emails so you can contact us.

We'd love to hear more.

Absolutely, I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, moving on.

Um council and mayoral comments and observations.

Uh mayor is not here tonight, so I will start with the council.

Um who would like to start?

Councillor Worrell.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Uh I just wanted to give a quick commercial.

Uh we are literally uh less than two weeks away from the inaugural national civility summit being held right here in Carmel, Indiana.

We have over 50 volunteers who are working hard to welcome leaders from across the country who are coming to Carmel in order to um work on uh putting together plans and tactics and toolkits in order to go back home and foster a culture of civility when they return.

It all started uh January of 2024 when I invited the author of this book to the Carmel Library.

I set up 35 chairs, 300 Carmel residents showed up, and uh that told me there was a need and a desire to uh work on civility.

Not that we're not civil, but that we can do better.

And what I've experienced not only at this dais, but from the community, is an acceptance that now is the time.

So we are working hard, and I'm recognizing or wanting to make sure you know that there are going to be visitors to our community on um September 26th and 27th.

Friday night, former governor uh Mitch Daniels will do a fireside chat and uh talking about leadership and civility.

That is a ticketed event that can be done outside of going to the entire conference.

I would like to tell Chris before you leave.

You asked how can you get involved.

I received from a donor six scholarships to the uh to the uh civility summit.

I would like to create a seventh scholarship, should you be available on this on September 26th and 27th.

You are a great example of the type of person, especially at your age, that would be most welcome at the National Civility Summit.

And I know that we could learn a lot from you.

And so um I'll ask that you reach out to me if that should be of of any interest to you.

Otherwise, um thank you to my colleagues for all of your support and for the encouragement that I received from all of you.

Thank you, Councillor Locke, and then if you want to everyone else speak, please point to me.

Yep.

Um and I just want to thank uh Kay, who comes to all of these uh for reminding us uh to not whine first and foremost, but um to look at all the wonderful things that we're doing as a city.

Like while the doom and gloom of the budget and all the process we get into minutiae comes out when you watch these meetings or come to them.

We just had two super cool dogs.

Um there are there are so many wonderful things happening in this place in this place we call home um from the effort energy of everybody that lives here, of all the people that are engaged in it.

Um so just wanted to thank her for that breath of fresh air.

Um while it sounds like we're whining, um, some of us are, uh, but me specifically, um it's it's truly because this is such a wonderful place.

So thank you for that wake-up call and go Carmel.

Councillor Schneider.

Good comments, Ryan.

I was I was gonna thank you as well, Kay.

Um and thank you for not throwing all of us under the bus specifically.

Um, we we get up here and you're you didn't say a single word that was inaccurate.

I don't know where you're sitting trying to look at.

Oh, okay.

Um your commitment to this community being at every land use meeting, coming to every council meeting is inspiring at the least.

Um I would like if there's any defense to be made to say that I think that this group of the eight people up here, plus one that um has been very ill and couldn't make it.

Um I truly, from the bottom of my heart believe that politics don't enter our minds up here, and I hope we've demonstrated that at our meetings, specifically land use, which is much more conversational.

Um I I'm curious to see how the next election cycle goes here in Carmel.

I really am.

Um I I've I have always run on the Republican ticket, but I always say I'm a Carmel Republican, and it's the human beings in this community of wherever you come from is what I care about, and and I I I can I know I can speak for my colleagues.

That's what's going through their head.

And it yeah, I think we're all disappointed with the the poor decisions that have been made.

Um so thank you.

Um I I everything you said was accurate, and I love that that that you bring that up because it it's true, and um try not to whine as much.

Um much are your sponsorships, counselor?

I mean your uh scholarships.

For the uh full uh summit, it's 195 dollars for uh for the scholarship?

Yeah.

Oh well, I'd be happy to pay that for Mr.

Kish.

Um I say Mr.

Kish because I I don't want to insult you.

Yeah.

Um I I think that's great, and I I want to speak to your summit to some degree.

Uh when you started working on this, I I would be lying if I didn't think, oh what is what what are you doing?

Um this seems so silly.

Uh hearing how you went from an idea to these huge dreams, I thought retirement's really caused you to lose your mind.

Um but then I've seen, I've witnessed at least over the last year, how much work you've put in this going to different cities.

I had the pleasure of stumbling in on one of your presentations a couple weeks ago, I think.

Um I started started reading your literature.

I've started talking to other people that have talked to you.

I for the first time got uh, hey, do you know Jeff Orell doing the civility thing?

Not do you know Jeff Orell because you're on city council with them.

Um I'm very proud of you.

Um I want you to know that you have my full support, endorsement for what that's worth as a as it's both a city counselor and a lifelong resident of Carmel.

I think that your civility push, um, while at first I thought I don't know what I thought is extremely important.

And um I I like to think I've taken a few things from it, and I think we all can, and I I I just want to know that I I look forward to your event.

I'm so proud of you and the success you've had, and I I think that it is something that this whole community should be proud of, knowing that you've got people from all over the country coming into Carmel, Indiana is a really cool thing.

Thank you very much, Counselor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments?

I'd like to set on you can if you want, you can if you want to, Shannon.

Never stop before.

I didn't get to go first though, unfortunately.

Uh I want to thank Kay as well and and Chris for and and to Jeff for coming up and speaking tonight, but specifically to Kay, I would like to think as well.

I'll stop whining.

I'm trying not to.

Um, but to Jeff's civility, I think it's something that we need in this world today.

And I want to applaud you for reaching across the aisle to everybody in every political spectrum.

I know this personally because my neighbor of 26 years is now a member of a board of the of your board, which I didn't know that he was.

And he and I sat down and talked about it, and he had told me I asked him why he got involved, and he's he he simply said it's because what this world needs.

And so I just want to applaud you for that as well, reaching across the aisle and talking to everybody because that's a that's an important thing in today's society.

So thank you for that.

And I would again I'd have to take more time up and echo those comments.

First off, Council Rao gave us these really nice books as a group.

So very nice gesture to the council here.

Um regardless, you know, last week was a very tough week.

There was um a tragedy that uh hit a lot of people, regardless of where you are in the political spectrum.

Um, and it was very disheartening, both because a young father lost his life that he had young children, and it was because he was speaking his mind, whether you agreed with his viewpoints or not, no one should ever have to face kind of those consequences for just speaking their mind.

But then it was also really disheartening to see social media afterwards and the reactions that we saw after that event, and you know, people using this as a way to divide each other even more instead of realizing that a human life had been lost.

Um and instead of bringing us together, it just feels like push people further and further apart.

And I know everyone here at this dais loves this city and ran for council because they care about this community, but I'm sure all of us at times have felt frustrated because of um heated rhetoric or you know, not being able to have a productive conversation with somebody where maybe you disagree on the issues, you don't hate them as a person, but you just disagree.

And so this was needed even before last week.

You know, last week I think even brought even more attention to this, but um not only I think is Counselor Warell the right person to bring this message.

I think maybe they would have been the only person who really could wake our eyes up on this, but um I think you've hit on something that can really not only help Carmel and put us in the spotlight that can make a difference on a larger level.

So I fully endorse what you're doing, and uh I think it's a good reminder to all of us as we get into heated discussions that we all love the community and we just we want what's best.

So thank you again.

Thank you.

All right.

So um moving on to the next side of the agenda, we have consent agenda.

Approval of minutes, August 18th, 2025 regular meeting, and August 28th, 2025 regular meeting, and claims payroll in the amount of 4,166,574 and 62 cents.

General claims the amount of $2,160,000, $558.88.

Purchase card, $31,496.96, and wire transfers in the amount of $2,683,431 and 44 cents.

Do I have a motion?

All right, please vote.

All right, pass this unit.

Action on mayoral vetoes.

We have none.

Committee reports.

Ummittee.

Um Chair Taylor is not here tonight.

Um we do have some meetings scheduled.

Jessica, could you so we have a meeting on Wednesday that is tentatively scheduled for three o'clock?

And we do have a quorum for that.

We believe you have a quorum.

And then we also have a meeting scheduled for September 23rd.

September 23rd.

Which is a Tuesday at 6 p.m.

here in Council Chambers.

Okay.

So we have two finance committees, uh, finance uh meetings, committee meetings scheduled, and then I believe we also would have one on October 6th, is what we had.

Yes, October 6th, which it will be 3 p.m.

3 p.m.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh land use and special studies committee.

Counselor Snyder.

Thank you, President Austin.

Um I'm not sure what we're doing on Wednesday, to be quite honest.

We will have a land use meeting uh on our normal time this coming Wednesday at 5:30 at the Carmel Library.

Uh in our last meeting, we went through the uh signature 55 building that came out of committee uh unanimously in support.

We also talked about project updates regarding the 2024 infrastructure package.

Um we have since gotten updates.

Um thank you to um Mr.

Pease, our engineering director.

We haven't had time to dissect it yet.

We also due to just working on the budget, didn't have our administrative meeting last week.

Um I can't really say I don't know what we're gonna do.

I I I have no idea, and I don't know what's what but what's pressing.

So for those of you that usually come, it's gonna be one of the items on the agenda.

I'm probably probably leaning towards maybe trying to clean up the right-of-way stuff, and then if we get anything tonight, uh probably trying to knock that out because if we're getting it tonight, it's probably time sensitive.

Um if I have any updates, I mean, okay, you're at every one of them, you know most people.

I'll try to at least let you know, but to the community, I don't know how to get that information out.

But it will be one of the many things that are on our agenda given our time constraints.

I just don't know what it's gonna be.

And I I truly apologize for that.

All right, thank you so much.

Uh next up on our agenda, we have other reports.

The monthly report of the Carmel Redevelopment Commission.

Good evening, Counselors Henry Mostetsky, Carmel's redevelopment director.

I know that you've had a long day.

Plus, we just had some puppies in here.

Um I'm gonna try to go through uh last month redevelopment activities here fairly quickly.

It's coming, I think.

Okay.

Construction continues in city center.

Um I always appreciate David Ryan at in the MAC department.

He's got the drone.

He allows us to see these shots of construction in Monon Square and how quickly that's going.

It's gonna be a great project.

First on Maine.

Magnolia continues to build out its condos.

Um I do want to say here's an updated picture of the Civic Square condos.

Uh Mayor Finkam uh did an event late last week.

Uh Council Gorell was there doing kind of a uh enclosingslash top and out ceremony for this project.

Uh I talked to the developer today, and uh 60% of those units are pre-sold.

So that's really good.

Uh Hampton Crossing continues to move forward.

Looking forward to uh a um the headquarters opening probably around December and the hotel being wrapped around the garage, so that's moving forward.

Um nothing new to report.

Uh Icon continues its construction, ATT site continues its construction now.

The building is looking beautiful.

Autolon Plaza continues its constructions now and closing the building.

Um I'm excited for uh people that get to drive into Main Street are gonna watch to see watching the architecture of this building go up over the next six months.

It's gonna be really pretty.

Uh and that concludes my uh presentation.

Uh happy to answer any questions.

I can also get into um the uh uh signature 55 project now or later, uh whichever the council would like.

One question.

Counselor Schneider.

The uh the condos that you just said were six sixty some percent was pre-sold.

Yep.

Is that one of those where we have uh agreement to collect monies?

Yes.

And I don't need the answer because I'm sure they're being vetted, but will that kick in based on the data you've seen?

Um we do the true up kind of at the very end once all the units are sold.

Okay.

But um seems to be going fast, so it's a positive thing.

Thank you.

Any other questions from the council?

All right, thank you, Director Mustatsky.

Thank you.

Moving on to old business, 14th reading of ordinance D 2762-25, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana.

I'm adding chapter 8, Article 5, Section 837, Section 847, and Section 848 of the Carmel City Code.

Sponsor is Councillor Austin.

This remains in the land use and special studies committee.

Ninth reading of ordinance D 2772-25, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana adopting a new Article 8, Chapter 2 of the Sartre Carmel City Code.

Sponsor are counselors Austin, Ayers, Minars, Snyder, and Warrell.

This remains in the Finance Utilities and Rules Committee.

Um update on this ordinance.

Um depending on what happens with experience Carmel, I've suggested that discussion of this ordinance that's been in there for a while should maybe begin.

So uh at some point I expect the finance committee to um discuss this ordinance.

Second reading of ordinance D 2778-25, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana authorizing the issuance of economic development tax increment revenue bonds to support the rebar old meridian project and authorizing the approving of other actions in respect thereto.

Sponsor is Councillor Austin.

This returns from the land use and special studies committee, Councillor Schneider.

It's section C.

Signature 52.

Thank you.

This ordinance authorizes the issuance of developer TIFF bonds by the city of Carmel to finance certain improvements to support the development of what used to be the Rebar Old Meridian Project.

And if I could just tee this up a little bit since it's not that often I get excited about redevelopment projects at all.

This project is uniquely special.

It adds, I believe, about 200 apartments.

They are all age restricted.

Um they're required to be 80% age restricted, 55 and up.

Uh the developer has said it's just all gonna be that way.

More importantly than the apartment piece, what this does is it takes a piece of land and allows a veteran's park to be built.

So our newest park, Carmel O'Clay Parks and Recreation Park, um, depending on whether Bear Creek Park on the northwest side or this one goes first to be constructed.

And the way that gets constructed is I had pushed hard for the city to buy that land, and we all agreed it was a good idea.

But it was a lot of money, a lot of your money to spend on a parcel of land.

And if we had done it, there wouldn't have been money to actually build the beautiful park, and nobody wanted that.

And this company came along.

Henry did Henry with them.

And we got a really cool opportunity that along the new veterans' trail that's going to be constructed, have this beautiful veterans park that will truly have the input of the community, but specifically the veterans in its full design and makeup, including a beautiful esplanade connecting it to Old Meridian.

It'll connect to the new Rose development and the public plaza there that's very similar to Midtown.

This none of that could happen if there wasn't a compromise and allowed some sort of development here.

And I really appreciate you, Henry, knowing my normal opposition to all of this stuff to find something that not only I, but I think the rest of the council is very comfortable with and can be proud of.

So thank you.

So this item returns from the land use and special studies committee.

Um there was some suggestion earlier that this could go to the finance committee, finance committee afterwards.

After talking to the finance members, um, many of them seemed okay with trying to see if we can get some financial questions asked at the dais.

So let's see if we can do that, and then if we have to send it to committee, we will.

So Director Mustetsky.

Yep, thank you.

Uh I do want to say we have our uh friends from Rebar here today to answer any questions, but uh essentially it's what the councillor Snyder just said.

Uh it's a hundred percent uh TIFF bond.

This is a developer TIFF, so there's no risk to the taxpayers.

Uh the parking pack fees from this project is helping actually to go towards the purchase price of the land.

So at the end of the day, and there's two action items in front of you.

One is approving the bonds for this, and second is the which will hear in a second, but I might as well just reference it now.

The second is the land transaction, and so the way this will effectively function is the redevelopment commission already voted to uh to purchase this land, and um and voted to transfer it to the city of Carmel.

So the second thing in front of you is the resolution to essentially receive the land.

So the way this is would would work um functionally is that uh if this council approves the bonds, which is the first thing in front of you, the developer is gonna design the project.

Um we already have a meeting on the books uh next week with uh CRC and engineering and parks and the developer to all work through the drainage there that's the water feature on the park.

But uh assuming developer takes the next six to nine months and and does uh design and goes through all the approvals and enough approvals that would let the developer's lender actually fund the construction loan for the project, meaning the project's gonna happen.

The second that lender's funding the construction loan, we know the project is happening, that's when we would close on our portion of the land uh as is depicted there, so that we're only funding once we know the deal is moving forward, and once we know the developers building the parking garage that we're gonna use and the free bathrooms that we're gonna use.

So that is how uh functionally this uh deal would be put together between the developer bond and the land transfer.

I believe that uh we have um uh um squeezed every dollar out of this developer that there possibly is.

Uh that is my professional opinion.

Um, but I am happy to have the developer come up here as well and answer any questions uh if any of the counselors have any.

Any questions from the council any for Henry or the developer while they're there if anyone has any questions?

Yeah, I do I do want to point out that the picture of the park is simply a placeholder.

Yes, there's no preconceived notion, it is a complete blank space.

All we do know is there will be some sort of water component just for stormwater reasons, and that it will be tied to uh neighboring property.

That is correct.

Uh parks, the parks department, Michael Klitzing will design the park, working with uh the partners here.

Councilor Jessie.

So we had a robust discussion about this in land use, as we have many times, um, had robust discussions.

One of um, well, there are two points that I'd like to make.

First of all, the VFW was in favor of this project, which was important to me because they are the neighbors, they're gonna be the ones that are most directly affected.

That means that veterans are going to be the ones that are most likely to benefit from some of the amenities around their property in the project.

And one of the things that we had talked about was the possibility that in as Henry so delicately put it, squeezing every dollar out of this project.

There was a hope that some of these apartments could also be reserved or put aside with discounted rates, perhaps for some of our veterans in this community to actually give back to those who gave so much to us.

So that was one of the asks we had, and I just didn't know if you might be able to speak to that.

Thank you.

Uh my name is Tom Dickey, I'm CEO of Rebar Development, and I see familiar faces from the last month's meeting plus the land use committee meeting.

Thanks for having us back.

Um we we had a really nice discussion.

I was as I mentioned land use committee.

I was so very impressed with um Commander Babow.

I think I have his the pronounces last name, um, and just what the what that um what that place is doing, it's just really it is needed, and we we've left there thinking it's gonna be a great amenity for our our community.

And you uh uh just ask us to think about what you just said.

So we've we have we have been thinking about it's it's really a relatively easy ask for us um to because it becomes part of our marketing early on that there's X number and it's a discount, you know, there's a discount rate, which if we you know the odds of that this we're gonna fill this up with veterans is not high, so it's not gonna be true, you know, that impactful for our pro forma and for our numbers.

Um so I don't feel like I'm being squeezed for that ask.

It feels like it's a pretty easy thing for us to do it.

We we intend to we spend some time with the commander after the meeting.

Um, and uh we intend to have that discussion and keep that going.

I think you'll see more of a connection than just you know some units being set aside with with some uh discount.

I think you'll see more collaboration than that.

I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

Counselor Green.

Wait, wait, wait.

Well, what I heard in that is I'm gonna have a project agreement that does say that they are setting a few units aside, and then they'll do more on top of that.

That's what I'm hearing.

Thank you, Director Mistetsky.

Counselor Green.

Uh I want to thank Councillor Snyder for all the work he's done on this.

This project that's going in there right here is much better than the previous one that was supposed to.

That kind of fell apart.

Um so I really appreciate uh you know all the work that's been done and it was fully vetted at land use, and I really don't see a need for finance to take a second look at it.

With that, any other questions or I would entertain a motion.

So moved.

Second.

All right.

When you're ready, please vote.

All right, this passes.

Next up on our agenda is resolution CC08 182501, a resolution of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana authorizing certain actions with respect thereto, an acquisition of a certain real property by the city for public use and matters related thereto.

Sponsors, Councillor Austin.

This returns from the land use and special studies committee.

Director Mistetsky.

This is the second part of this.

Yep.

Um I generally talked about this about five minutes ago.

I do want to point one thing out uh from land use committee, if that's okay, Councillor Snyder.

One of the things discussed was once the city takes title to this land, meaning we know the project is happening.

It is the intent of the city to then transfer this land to the parks department.

Uh I know that CRC is going to work with Sergey to make sure all that happens as requested by council.

All right.

With that, any questions or comments?

If not, I would entertain a motion.

So moved.

Second.

All right.

When you're ready, please vote.

All right, this also passes.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Council.

Thank you.

All right.

Getting some things moved off our agenda.

Moving on.

We have second reading of ordinance D 2779-25, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, fixing salaries of appointed officers and employees of the City of Carmel, Indiana for the year 2025.

Sponsor is Councillor Taylor.

This remains in the Finance Utilities and Rules Committee.

Um I think Councillor Green, you'll be running the meeting on Wednesday, and this is probably the priority for that meeting.

Yeah, this will be the priority for that meeting.

Okay.

All right.

Well, then moving on.

We have second reading of ordinance D 2780-25, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, amending chapter 3, Article 1, Section 344 of the Carmel City Code.

Sponsor are counselors Austin and Taylor.

This remains in the Finance Utilities and Rules Committee.

We also have second reading of ordinance D 2781-25, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, amending chapter 8, Article 5, Section 846 of the Carmel City Code.

Sponsor is Councillors Taylor, Austin and Warrow.

This remains in the Finance Utility and Rules Committee.

And then finally, under old business, we have second reading of ordinance D 2782-25, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, amending chapter 8, Article 3, Section 817 of the Carmel City Code.

Sponsor are counselors Austin and Taylor.

This was tabled at the August 18th, 2025 meeting.

Now I want to bring this up here because we do have Director Pease who could answer some questions about this.

I know at our last meeting, it was a long meeting, and it was kind of felt it was best to maybe table this item instead of talking about it at 10 o'clock at night.

So a couple couple options tonight.

Discuss whether it's something we could act on this evening, or the other option, we'd be sending it to committee.

And if we do send it to committee, I would send it if this is okay with you, Councillor Snyder, to the land use committee, just so I can even out the committee's workloads.

So let's hear from is that all right?

Yeah, the yes, and if it did, it would be discussed Wednesday.

Okay, awesome.

So we'll give Director peace to give a presentation.

We'll ask some questions, and then we'll kind of decide what we want to do with this tonight.

Thank you for that introduction, uh, President Austin.

Um good evening.

I'm happy to uh introduce this uh ordinance.

Uh at the PowerPoint.

So Carmel Clay Schools, uh, one of the best schools, public school systems in the country.

Um City of Carmel, one of the best cities in the country, the best city.

Some of you might yell at me for not saying the best city in the country.

Uh, tonight I get to tell you about how the best school system and the best city get to work together on an exciting project.

Um, and I think you're really gonna like it.

So this is the state of our current school zones.

Um 25 mile an hour, uh, 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

Um at the time that we made that, we targeted simplicity, so they're all 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

Um so we have consistency in our rule, but we do have some varying styling or text in the in the signage or overall look to the signs, as you can see.

So uh the school is making an upgrade, the Carmel Clay Schools was making an upgrade to their system.

So at that time we wanted to kind of review some of these uh assumptions and take a look uh at what was going on.

Uh the first thing was that time 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

Um and targeting, you know, is that when students are there?

Uh is that when they're actually arriving or leaving, and so we kind of looked at those times.

And then did we have any issues with compliance that we knew of?

Um, and did drivers get the message based on how the sign set up when they needed to slow down.

So to address consistency and style, this is uh sort of what we're proposing.

Um this new apparatus, which again we want to replicate, so it's the same everywhere.

You get the idea.

So it's 32 locations, they'll all be the same.

Uh so it's a big project, and I think will be meaningful.

Trying to go two for two on power points today.

So uh you'll see um uh this wind flashing is different than the times before.

Uh so why are we taking a look at that?

Um what if the the lights only indicate when they need to?

Uh the rule becomes sort of self-evident.

Um drivers know immediately is it schools owners or not school zone uh versus looking at their clock.

Uh students, not that they need to know if it's a school zone or not, they should be protected at all time, but they see the flashing, they know if it's a school zone or not, whether they know the time.

Um it's flexible, so it provides some flexibility.

It's not at static 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

If there's any reason why that would need to be changed or updated in the future, we have that uh kind of availability with this update.

Um the technology now exists.

It didn't before when we have the 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

to kind of make that all seamless.

So details of accomplishing this is sort of in two pieces, uh, an ordinance and not both pieces need to happen.

So uh the first one is changing that 7 a.m.

This is what they would say now, and this is what we would kind of propose.

Even up there, you can see it's a little bit simpler to read, and again, the the rule is then self-evident.

So that's just one piece.

So it could be 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

in the ordinance you have before you, though.

We again looking to target when the students were there.

And most of them will be 7 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

in that schedule you have, uh with the exception of one of the middle schools where there's significant activity even there after 6 p.m.

So sort of just a slight change there.

Um so along with that ordinance and passage, we're gonna upgrade uh all these flashers for a more modern networked and uh remote control uh units.

It's a solar panel there, so uh protects against you know hits to conduits or power if the power would go out.

Uh the flashers which are used to.

This sign is roughly the same, but with the wind flashing, and then a significant piece is this radar feedback sign.

So we will be adding this to all those units at all the locations.

Um data and research as far as things that can help control speed besides infrastructure itself.

This is one of the biggest uh tools or one of the most effective tools we have, so we think this will make a real a really big difference.

Um we'll also get a lot of data from these radar feedback signs, so it will tell us the speeds throughout the day.

Um we'll get reports of that, and that will be really rich data that will help us um make other decisions in the future.

This is the technology inside that's gonna help the schools uh because they can schedule it and know if it goes down, um monitor the school zones.

Uh the city can also monitor all that kind of uh data live.

So that's sort of the vision of what we're looking for.

Um again, the goal is safer for our kids, safer for the parents, uh smarter for drivers.

Uh so it again, only flashing when it matters to really highlight the attention to catch uh uh to when they need to uh slow their speeds, uh, and then simpler for the schools and maintaining them and managing it.

So uh again, it's aligning Carmel's world world class schools with Carmel's world world class infrastructure.

Um I think you put those together is something that's very meaningful for our community, and I think our community will really like it.

All right, thank you.

We'll open it up for Councillor Joshi and Count Lacasteral.

Okay.

Uh so the first thing is so great idea.

I love using technology, so thank you for that.

Um I either I'm speeding, isn't the school speed limit 25?

Yes.

So that's a sample.

This is a sample.

I guess I should have photoshopped that oh, you caught me on the experience.

Not that I'm paying attention or anything, but I don't want to speed in a school zone.

So uh so anyone listening, it's don't go 20.

Um, and then what did you decide on the earth?

What did where did we land on hours?

Are we sticking with seven to six?

Yeah, you should have it before you there's a table right now.

It's seven to six p.m., except for one of the middle schools, uh, which is still seven to seven.

So they have a they have activity from six to p6 p.m.

to seven p.m.

We worked with the school resource officers, carnal police, um, and coordinated with them when are kids there, when are they not there?

Um I think someone asked me, well, why don't we just do it 24 hours?

Well, really loses its effect at 24 hours because it doesn't bring attention to it when you want to.

So the idea is to really bring attention to the times that we want to target.

But again, it's two pieces.

We could keep it as is, status quo with the 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m., get some more data, and with this upgrade, we can always come back and update the schedule.

Yeah, so I I think the comment that I'm gonna make just for the public is that this is not about saving anyone four seconds uh to get through the zone.

It's not about saving time, letting you go faster.

It really is about um consistency and knowing when to slow down because there might be children present.

That's what I love about this, and I'm I'm all in.

I do not have to go to finance committee for this one.

Um there are questions, comments?

Counselor Snyder.

Oh, Councillor Josh, and then we'll go to Council Storm.

Um so a few things because um uh obviously my concern is always gonna be safety of children, especially being that that's my wheelhouse, but um I want to know who is gonna be responsible for the timing on these, because I heard you say, you know, 7 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

now, except for one school, which sort of leaves a little bit of grayness there for me.

I don't I don't know why the need to drop down to 6 p.m.

at all if you just keep it where it is.

I don't think people are.

I understand people want to, you know, it loses its effectiveness, supposedly, but if you're flashing, it doesn't lose its effectiveness at all because it would be flashing that entire time, right?

And then you would be very well informed as to when it's flashing, and also who would be responsible for it.

So in case there was an after school activity or something else happening, is it the schools that are gonna set those flashers?

How is that gonna work?

So uh so it's on like two questions there.

So uh who's gonna control it?

So the schedule is the schedule as we have it.

It's gonna be flashing those schedules on school days, so it's not uh there's an activity, so it's on today and not tomorrow.

So it's we'll get the school will have the schedule of what school days are, and those are the days that'll flash from those hours, seven the eleven hours from 7 a.m.

to 6 p.m.

Uh the reason for the 6 p.m.

again is it's there's the psychology of it's based on trust.

The community has to trust that we are being meaningful with the hours that we set.

Um so that that's why it's there.

Again, we're talking about an hour difference.

Um we can do one part of this ordinance without the other, like I said, but it's that 24 hour thing.

If they're flashing 24 hours all the time, well, they can always see them, but they don't trust that we've been thoughtful with when students are there and people have less compliance at that point.

Yeah, no, I'm not suggesting that we do it 24 hours.

What I was wondering is if there were to be parent-teacher school night, after school event, something like that.

Would you uh would the school have the discretion to then say, hey, we need this flashing on X day because of this?

So the technology allows for that, the ordinance as written does not.

So no, that that wouldn't be part of it.

They don't have discretion, they have to follow that schedule.

Councillor Snyder.

Thank you.

So I my from my frustration with this is just some really one of them is on the back of Dr.

Joshi.

But more so is that this is a um it's called an ordinance regulating speed limits for school zones.

And I think that's rather disingenuous when this is a sign replacement project that's costing a substantial amount of money.

Now I am all for that.

And if that makes those signs make our community safer, that's great.

And we should do it.

But I don't like that it's being sold as a speed limit thing.

And if it's going to be a speed limit thing, then I do believe that the schools or the school resource officers should have control.

Like, why does City Hall doing setting timing for uh school events?

Because I mean I've I grew up obviously with a mother that taught her whole career.

I I know how things pop up.

There's events that aren't posted at the beginning of the year for the whole calendar year.

There are snow days, there are all sorts of things.

So I I want to support this, but I want to support it in a more meaningful manner.

One, probably with an appropriation.

Uh if you're if you because if you already have the money, I'm curious what isn't getting paid for.

And then two, with a uh something that defines that the schools will set their own speed, their own their own times, or they'll be flashing when they need it to be.

And then there's a greater conversation of because almost all the schools, it's it drops from 30 miles an hour down to 25 miles an hour.

Except for a couple that's one's 40 or that's probably a bigger discussion about the 40 mile an hour speed limit, period.

Not this.

So I don't care w if it goes to a committee or not.

I'm I am going I will vote no, but not out of lack of support.

It's because I want it to be better, and I know it can be better.

Um and I just don't think City Hall should be setting speed limits for schools.

Councillor Green.

Um have we gotten feedback?

You said the school resource officers, but as the like the uh Carmel Clay school administration um or PTO, have we gotten feedback from like the stakeholders?

Yeah, um we worked with uh Dr.

Ostrike um and he coordinated with SRO, and I don't know what all his constituents were, but we didn't host those conversations with them.

Um so I don't know if he engaged PTO, but it was mostly the professionals when I talked to them that we talked about SROs, after school people from parks, I think their programs, their ESC programs and stuff like that.

And I like the the concept of you know, because the technology has the ability of having some flexibility, you know.

But today it's what seven to seven citywide, you know.

There's no thinking, there's no seven to seven, versus you know um too much flexibility, you know.

Is that does that become a safety issue?

Yeah, that's why I I would only support this or be involved in this if it was the when flashing for that flexibility.

That's why we have the 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

And I was a real advocate at that time because I thought we could train everybody, and apparently it worked that you don't have to look at the sign anymore.

But there's plenty of people outside Carmel that are here and don't know that, right?

So that's some amount of our population, so they still are looking at the time.

But I agree with you, and that's the whole point of the when flashing, you see it, and it's self-evident.

But that was the whole point of the original.

Counselor Lott.

Sure.

Um, and my questions are kind of twofold.

One kind of on the financial front, what are we looking at?

Um, and would love just kind of a breakdown on those finances of what this is going to cost.

I do I want to echo, I love the idea of modernizing the system um and having it be something that's set across.

I love the idea of getting the data on how fast people are going so we can start to kind of look at how we're enforcing and doing the things we have to in these in these school zones.

Um, but would love to know kind of what that cost is, and then the second will be um based on the modernized technology, wondering um the flashers are new for some places and not for others.

Do we know how much energy we'll be saving?

And this is Climate Action Advisory Committee coming out just for kind of a fun tidbit, but the idea of making these sustainable in a way that they're helping kind of meet this infrastructure need without being a draw on energy that wasn't there before is the other side of that question.

So, first um I think full if you take the whole package, 450,000-ish and 50,000 is being contributed to Carmel Place Schools because they are already buying this remote controlled technology upgrade.

Uh so that's sort of that cost that we're looking at.

Um the second one, energy, it's gonna be less energy.

So right now we have some plugged in, uh we have very few solar right now, just a few of them I think are out there, most of them are plugged in.

So this is a self-sustaining energy.

It's gonna take solar, put it in a battery, and use it so it's nothing from the grid, no coal, straight off the sun.

So should be a net negative for your committee.

Okay.

And and I do just one iteration for this.

When this first came to us, we were giving the ability to set these times to the BPW, and that has been removed.

So I do think this is a step in the right direction.

Love the idea of taking this to a broader approach and looking at how we're creating a better, safer environment on our roads around this.

Um, but do think starting somewhere makes sense, and I do think that this piece of the equation when going through our city, um knowing full well that there are people moving in at every block north of us into perpetuity for the foreseeable future that are going to drive through our city to get to the city that they're gonna work at.

Um it makes sense to have some kind of visual kind of trigger, like a flashing beacon um that tells them when they have to slow down uh to protect our kids.

Uh Counselor Minard, the Councillor Snyder.

Yeah, and just I I had heard that some of the um signs actually had to be manually turned on and turned off.

Is that true?

Um that's probably true.

Like I don't know what they're doing exactly right now for all the schools, but yeah, there was a time when I'd say it probably is true.

You go out to the box, and I think it has a time clock and they have to set it and they can set the 365 days at the beginning of the year, and then the next year before school starts, they'd reset it.

So now it's remotely controlled on the computer, and again, right?

Easier to know if one's down or not down, and we don't get a lot of calls about them not working when they're supposed to be working, so we trust the school who's responsible for maintaining them uh to to continue to do that and do a good job.

But yeah, it should be a lot easier for them to do that.

Perfect.

And I echo all my other counselors' comments, so that I won't dribble on, so you can just drive on.

Counselor Schneider.

Turn it off.

Someday.

So I I I won't 100% what we have now is rubbish.

And I think you're right on some of them, Shannon.

Um they're incandescent bulbs.

These are gonna be LED, much brighter, which flashier.

Um again, awesome idea.

Sold as a speed limit thing, it's a sign replacement project.

And I would much more love to see I also think there's a little bit of no, it's the word I'm looking for.

I think there are those, I think that some are being left out.

I I'd much rather see you take that 450,000 and put that into some sort of matching grant program for all of the and I it'd take me a minute to pull up the data, but something like 51 educational facilities that aren't getting new signs.

Um then simply ask the council for the appropriation, or out of the I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth, this would have to be a greater conversation, or out of our our pedestrian improvement line item, and we know there's gonna be some reworking of some of this stuff with some additional monies.

Um I am also concerned about the preschools, the daycares, the independent schools, um all of the educational facilities that aren't getting these.

So if there was a way to take what you were already gonna spend and then allow that to be a matching grant for those that were interested and maybe applying to put some of that in, and we could just fund this thing, is just an idea I'm throwing out on the table.

But again, it's a sign replacement project, and I think that the schools should have control, and you just said they maintain them, so why wouldn't they have control over when they are on?

And and you're and I think you're right that if they were flashing all the time, they don't have any effectiveness.

I 100% agree.

So kind of uh the less less consistent they're flashing, the more effective they would be, would be my art.

Potentially, yeah.

Um again, we will get a lot of data and kind of figure that all out.

There's not a lot of data on these type of things for those detailed kind of questions or making assumptions sometimes about, but I don't disagree that could have the effect.

Again, this the radar feedback sign is gonna have a meaningful effect.

We have the data on that.

So the school zones and the flashers are pretty effective.

Uh fines are doubled.

That's kind of how that has an effect.

Um the radar feedback sign works off of shame.

That's how they work in neighborhoods and everywhere else.

Everyone else gets to see the speed you're going, and that's why they have an effect.

But they have to do that.

Because when I was at that age, we did we tried to max them out.

Can you talk to the improvements that are made on that?

So we uh it wasn't us that figured that out, but somebody figured out you were doing that, and they changed how they can control them now, so they will only go up so high, and then they just say stop or something, so you can't get a 99 on there trying to fly by it.

Uh but again, I I think that's a quadruple effect in a school zone that everyone sees that you're speeding in a school zone.

Why are you doing that?

Uh so I think it would have a tremendous effect on uh on the schools.

Uh this could be the leading example in all the Carmel Clay Schools, and we can follow suit with all the other places.

So there are three private schools here, all the places we already have these we're doing, so there are three private schools that we're working with as well uh that could have these, but daycares and some of those other things don't currently have school zones, but something we could look into.

So I wanted to give a little background on some of those because people ask kind of where we got with some of these things.

So back in July 17th, I think maybe that was the date that we received uh a copy of this ordinance uh from you, Director Peace, and um, you know, on the first uh version of this ordinance that as Councilor Locke pointed out, we were giving our authority away as a city council to set speed limits to the Board of Public Works, who would set them.

In this though, we there was an attached table of what those suggested hours would be that the recommendation that would be given to the Board of Public Works.

And you know, I don't read all of this, but uh it was uh Carmel Elementary till 5:30, high school till 530, uh, you know, Clay Center till 4:30, Clay Middle School till 7, Clay College would till 5:30, uh Smokey Road till 6, Town Meadow to 6.

So all the kind of times were all over the map, which I thought first glance that created an issue of lack of consistency.

Now I know that's not a problem if you can just look at it and say when flashing, but I do think there's a benefit for me as a motorist that before I even enter an area, I kind of generally know, hey, is this a school time that I need to be slowing down?

And I think that's helpful.

Um the other thing that immediately caught my attention, you know, my daughter goes to ESC, the after school care, is that many of these elementary schools um were spending before ESC was over.

And uh that ends at six o'clock at every elementary school in our city.

And this is an after-school program.

Um, you know, parents who have to work, and you know, they actually it's a great program, by the way.

Um, and I asked Director Klitzing of the Parks Department, they manage ESC, said they were not consulted in this, and their official position, which he wrote in a letter to council and say to city council meeting is that he would like to see them till 6 p.m.

Um with that, I talked to every single member of our school board, and I talked to Superintendent O Strike.

None of them seemed to have an opposition if we kind of kept the elementary schools at 6 p.m.

Um high school and middle schools, I didn't know really where they should go, but I felt certain that you know the elementary schools based on the expertise of our parks department, my own personal experience, that those needed to be till six.

These are kids that are the youngest and have the most possibility of running into the street.

Um with that, I talked to Mayor Finkham, saying kind of where are we at with this?

Um who was driving kind of these um decrease in the hours of our speed limits, and she urged me to decrease the hours of the speed limits, saying, hey, there aren't kids at these schools at this time, please decrease the hours.

Um I would have been happy to say let's just keep it at from 7 a.m.

to 7 p.m.

Um I just again trying to work with her in a productive manner.

I said, Well, I can't support anything lower than 6 p.m.

From there, she told me to pass along to you and illegal, just change it to 6 p.m.

And then that's how those hours were set.

Because you know, for the elementary schools, I said I would not vote for something any earlier than 6 p.m.

And I think others may have said similar things.

The parks director said the same thing.

That's kind of how those hours were set.

Is this based on any sort of data that we have from the schools?

When I asked them, it didn't seem like there was any data that I was provided to say that this is why it's 4 30 at one school, this is why it's 6 30 at one school, this is why it's 5 30.

But with this new technology, we can actually get some data.

Yeah, so there's probably two pieces of data that were used to come up with that.

So uh the police department ran uh uh a report of how many tickets they were given, so we kind of tried to have those numbers.

Yeah, and you know, sort of less in the afternoon or in those evening times.

Um but the other pieces it was pretty informal of just talking with the SROs, and I I was told that they talked to ESC, maybe Michael didn't get the you know, it was just how long are the students here?

Maybe they didn't know why they were answering that question.

But they wanted to know when are the students here, and sometimes it was most of the students are gone by 5 30, and that's probably how they came up with that number.

So uh those are kind of the two pieces of data because we don't have a lot of data out there.

Uh if we can get these radar guns out there and we can get all that data, we'll see.

I can tell you exactly from 5 30 to 6 p.m.

how many people are going 25 miles an hour, how many people are going more?

You know, obviously I can connect with Chief Sterling and we can figure out how to make sure people are going 25.

Okay.

Um any other questions or comments from the council on this.

What are we thinking we want to do on this?

Do we need to have more discussion at committee?

Do we need to hold this, or do you think that um we are ready to act?

Don't speak all at once.

If I can make one exactly so we targeted the beginning of the school year to have these in.

So schools in session, and we don't have this out there.

And we all agree this is safer, but it's not out there because we're in the weeds on it.

So my preference would be to pass something and know that we can always change it.

That's the beauty of this, is we can change those times.

So I would I would say we're in the weeds because that's our job.

Uh and to your point, I think, as you said, it's now a data collection sign.

Like it has nothing specifically to do with changing speed limits.

I don't know who came up with a title at the apologies.

Somebody did, and that's not what it is.

So I think we can do it better.

I think we can appropriate the money, pay for this, and then give those less fortunate that aren't on the teeth of the taxpayer the opportunity to at least get in on the program to make our children safer at a reduced cost.

I think we can do it better.

However, I'm happy to move to approve this tonight, knowing that I knowing where I stand, I uh is it fine as well.

I just know we can do it better.

Any other thoughts?

Councillor Green.

Well, um, if it's well, what worst case scenario, we're voting on this two weeks from now, right?

No, it'd be uh three weeks, I think October 6th.

The next council meeting.

Yeah, you know, but uh it um so I'm good with it depends.

It's it's the long day.

I I'm good with voting on it today, you know.

But if we can make some substantive changes and we just postpone things, you know, send it to land use, postpone things three weeks, and then you know have it uh come out of a better product.

I'm I'm good with just uh sending it to the land use.

There's also if you guys well I don't want to put us on the spot, but if you guys felt like this could come out of the bond, the pedestrian piece of the bond.

Um it takes council initiative to change definition of that section.

I mean, I'd be open to that, knowing that it'll be backfilled by redistribution of uh some can't uh canceled item or a postponed item within that list.

Um I where did the 450,000 just magically appear from?

I guess that's another question I have.

Um it's it's not magic.

We have the CCI, C C D LRS funds that we went through earlier, so that's the kind of thing.

But what would what would it have been spent on if this hadn't happened?

Um curb ramps in front of schools, uh speed humps, the the different things that come up throughout the year.

ADA compliance.

Well, sometimes added ones, but yeah.

Mr.

President, yes, Councilor War.

Um I'd like to encourage us to look at this pragmatically.

Um we have our professional engineering staff, we have uh the school corporation weighing in, we have our police department, and I'm worried it feels to me like we're letting perfect stand in the way of good.

And what I mean by that is that I see this as a better way to regulate speed in a school zone.

I know that I am sometimes aware or unaware, and a flashing light to me just seems like common sense.

Whether it's a sign ordinance or a speed ordinance, I don't know.

But I don't really care.

I really would like to see us do something now and make at least our nine schools or eleven schools, whatever it is, in my opinion, more safer.

So we can certainly go back and look at um Councilor Snyder's ideas as far as adding more and making this a bigger project.

But every time we make something bigger, it takes ten times longer.

So I would like to at least see us see if we can get five votes to at least do what we can do now and still um deal with Councillor Snyder's concerns, but I don't see that holding this up.

That's just my opinion.

Councillor Schneider, and I'm trying to compromise here.

Because I I do kind of agree with Council saying, is this something that we could act on in the October 6th meeting?

I don't want to send it to land use and have it sit there for months, though.

No, you guys are good.

You guys are pretty good.

I'm just asking.

No, I think this is a is a math problem and one to make sure.

I mean, uh does uh does my kids' school get one?

What school does your kids?

It's uh it was on the list.

But what about on the the same school on the east side?

It's every school that currently has a school speed limit.

So we would have to to expand what you're talking about, we have to first go find where all these other school speed limit zones that you would like to have.

So this is just all that we have.

We're talking code.

What school are we talking about?

Where do you can't?

Oh no, our lady.

I wonder because but every almost every church has some sort of educational school program.

So I think it's unfair that our lady then gets this just because they already had one because they were there first.

Um and then other churches that don't have them, even though they have educational components.

I will we have we added quorum day of school like earlier this year, I believe.

So somebody lobbied hard for it.

But again, if there's other school zones, we can pass this now, and then October 6th, you have another school zone, we'll add it and we can buy it.

I mean, if we get the money, we can add and add and add and add.

But we're delaying these other 11 schools right now to get it.

You have these in stock.

I have a contract to order them.

I'm waiting to hit go.

And what's the lead time?

One month.

We want to get these in before the end of the year at this point is the goal.

And install time.

Install time one week.

So delaying it makes absolutely no difference in getting them in by the end of the year.

Three weeks of school, yes.

Councilor Locke.

Yeah.

Um I will say we this is the second time this topic of like fairness has come up today in a process where we're talking about creating a safer environment.

And like I well, I hear it.

Like the idea of pragmatically putting 32 new speed signs that will help at the majority of the schools with the ability to move towards perfect after that makes sense to me today.

I I do have financial concerns, which I think is just something we can kind of hash out, or if we need to find more money, we will, specifically in this time of doing the budget.

But this has been on the BPW agenda now for a month and a half, or uh as a is a going out for bid item.

So it's already moving, um, which is another point of medium.

Um but I I I do agree, I think that where we stand with it now, it's simple enough.

The changes that we have, the work that we've put into this, put it in a position that moving what we're moving tonight to get 32 new signs that will make safer environments at those places happen with the intent to say we're not closing this, because we're it's not the state legislature, and we've talked about that before, but like we can make iteration iterative changes to this as we go from here, we can see what happens.

We can see if there's more, we can find more money, knowing that there is more need.

If you're a if you're a different school or you're looking to create safety for your students, reach out, um, send us all an email um and we'll put you on the list.

We'll make sure that we're moving towards that and finding a way to make this a better system.

But I I do think moving what is here tonight for me is reasonable because it sets a stage where this becomes a topic that we're working on and we're moving towards as opposed to kind of putting a pin in it or or waiting for it on that front.

Um specifically if you already have it in in your budget, you're already moving it based on the fact that that money is money that you're spending for this in the budget for 2025 as it stands, and we already have a procedural bid out at the BPW to do this work and and waiting to hit go on it.

Um I I do think that makes sense.

It is a little frustrating to put it kind of before all of these questions are answered.

But that being said, we're we're talking about safety in school zones.

And and again, there was rhetoric at the beginning of this that this came from the idea of it's annoying to have to slow down in school zones.

Um so we are very methodical, we wind quite a bit and are still winding tonight, Kay.

We will work on it another night.

But like the idea of taking those iterative steps, looking at things, getting the data, talking about the data, figuring out a way to implement things that have a better go forward result that will allow us to do more good for the city after that is something that I would be willing to kind of move now.

If it even if it gives us three or four weeks a faster return to get to those secondary questions in a better way that you've asked, Mr.

Snyder.

Yeah, I mean, I I just wanted to make the comment that I do think that if we can I'm comfortable with a 6 p.m.

on all of these.

I just was questioning the 7 p.m.

one, but if that's better for that school, and that school has weighed in on that, and you have had substantive conversations with them, and that's what they've decided.

I don't have a problem with that being the you know timing at which these flashers are gonna go off.

The data collection piece for me is important.

I agree with that.

And I think trying to put this in place because it will increase safety from what I understand.

I'm I'm comfortable supporting this, but I just want to make sure that we have the opportunity to continue to look at that data and then revisit it and then consider allowing you know for more times when we use it, not less, but more times when we use it so that it increases safety.

Thanks, Anita.

That was one of the things I agree with you on 100%.

And the other the other piece that I agree with uh Ryan is that there are several schools in our district right now that don't have flashing lights, one being Mohawk Trails, which is by my house and another school.

I don't believe Prairie Trace has one either.

So in that vein, I'm happy to move this forward and to Ryan's point.

We can continue looking at this and build upon it.

We can find the money to do it.

So you said that you're comfortable with the 6 p.m., but that's not what we're doing.

Just clarifying, right?

It's when flashing.

There's no state of time.

No state at time, but it'll flash from 76 pm.

But it won't say that.

Right, it will not say that.

No, no, no, I don't want it to say that.

That's not I just wanted to people to understand that we didn't go to a 5.30 or 4.30 or an arbitrary time zone.

Uh when this gets through, will you send me this contract that you're ready to push the button on for acquisition?

Because I'm curious if we bought a hundred of them, how much it would drive the price down.

I don't think anyone's ever bought 32 of them, so we probably got pretty good pricing.

But yes.

Well, you don't know that.

I'd be I'd be thrilled to buy a hundred of them if you're and who's doing the install.

Um I think it was Morphe construction.

I'll double check.

Okay.

Mr.

President, yes.

Um I would make a motion to approve um second reading of ordinance D 2782-25.

Do I have a motion and a second?

Uh any last discussion.

Okay.

Well, we'll we'll vote.

Go ahead and vote.

Okay.

Not a coward.

You're not a coward.

All right.

It passes uh seven yes.

Um one abstain.

And just for the record, too, you know, I know everyone would have stifled debate, so I was okay with three more weeks, but I just want to make sure that we're um yeah.

So I think no, we're good.

We're good.

Yeah, we're good.

We're moving on.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I did think of just one last thing.

If there is a material change to the very cool other than the zero turning into a five on the sign that you showed, if there's a differentiation or there's a desire to put anything else on it.

I would love for us to hear and see that if there is a difference.

Not we just put up signs that were not approved recently.

Um just want to verify that the signs are what we have been presented, and they're gonna look like that, and they're very they're obviously road signs, so they're different.

Yeah, but um if there is something that comes back that is not what we have seen tonight, would love to know that ahead of time.

Well, the 20 to 25 that council well astutely pointed out will be fixed, but yeah, thank you.

I have a question.

Hey, Brad.

Does the MUTCD allow for any attachment to a school zone sign?

I I'm not sure you're allowed to add any other I will uh get the particulars of that to you.

If you could, because uh that would be an amendment that it shall not have any other signage other than yeah, I'll get that to you.

Okay.

All right, moving on.

We got some stuff moving.

There you go.

Uh public hearings.

First reading of ordinance D 2783-25, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana, authorizing approving additional appropriations of funds from the law and for city law enforcement aid fund, fund 910, spouse sponsors are counselors, Taylor, and we're all move to introduce our council we're out.

Would you read the synopsis?

Uh this ordinance appropriates funds to cover costs within the city law enforcement aid fund number 910.

We're looking at 94,374 going from city law enforcement aid fund to city law enforcement eight fund 910, line item 4467099, other equipment 94374.

All right.

Uh Chief Sterling, would you like to present the good evening, Drake Sterling, Carmel Police Department?

Uh the purpose of these funds is to uh purchase CPD share of the vehicle mitigation uh vehicle barriers uh for special events.

I think I'd shared that information with you in lead up to this meeting.

Okay.

And there's another um uh under new business.

We have some other item connected to that as well.

That is a separate um resolution that is to pay off a capital lease.

There's but I was saying for the street department.

That they do they is that item F under new business?

Is that Zach?

Is that correct?

Yeah, there is some overlap there in terms of the street department's portion of this as well as uh street department moving dollars to pay off capital leases as well.

Okay, so when we reach that item, this it'll be connected to this.

Okay.

All right, counselor questions or comments on this item.

I do.

All right.

Count you in a second, or no, good.

Counselor Snyder.

Um Chief, I uh 100% support this.

Are these they're scary looking?

And I'm just wondering if we can do better.

Um I don't want to live in a community that feels like uh the White House anymore.

I mean, where this is a noticeable and scary visual cue, which maybe is the intent, but I are there others that don't look so like institutional.

I mean, this is hardcore based on what you sent us.

And I I'm curious if also there's technology that could maybe they're a little more permanent that I we've had the failed ones out in front of between Carter Green and the Reflection Pond forever that have never worked, but those are also 20 years old.

And I'm just wondering if there are other means.

These are great for like sort of those emergency things.

Like yeah, they should be scary and catch somebody off guard, but for events and what I my understanding of what these would also be used for, is there a less is there a version that where the public doesn't say, oh crap, should I even be here?

There are options that are potentially more aesthetically pleasing if that's uh what you would desire.

Um I will say that this project to research these actually precludes my time here.

This was something that uh Travis Taback from the Street Department has been working on since at least 2023, trying to get through.

Um obviously with some of the vehicular attacks that have occurred in the last couple years, we tried to step on the gas we best best we could.

Um and so this was the recommendation that came out of both streets.

We also convened a committee uh which included law enforcement, fire engineering, streets, and this was uh the most desirable because of the the crash test rating and just as a solution.

It's also um interchangeable, interoperable with EMA systems, it's the exact same system.

Now there are some attachments that could be um that could come with this system where you can put some signage.

Um so that could be another option.

Um, and I can send some of those to you afterwards.

But uh, this was uh the preferred option as far as safety and security.

And thank you.

And uh I've known Travis for 20 years, and if this is what he's thinking, and and I never connected what he that this is what he keeps talking about.

That this was it.

Um so I have no problem with this.

I want to do it.

I I just I want to make sure that we're not scaring the public is really so it has nothing to do with being synthetically pleasing, uh although it does in the fact that the feeling of being that we need it is alarming.

And I you guys do such a wonderful job.

I I I think that when we are using these, just needs to be thought out, or at least to your point if they can be dressed up a little bit, is all but for what it's worth.

We have deployed EMA because EMA has I think 10 or 20 lanes of closure with these as well.

We've deployed them in a few events this year.

We haven't had any feedback, good or bad.

Excellent.

Council Rao.

Thank you.

Yeah, uh, Chief.

So we yeah, we literally have been looking at this.

Um there's a couple of practical uh things going on with these.

Number one, you know, right now we use a dump truck or some kind of vehicle, Carmel Fest.

We're trying to get around, you know.

We've got we've got to get an ambulance in, we've got to find the keys to the dump truck.

These are um we we did go now.

This is before all the changes, but there was a lot of work put into these.

I actually want them to look like you should not try and mess with them.

So uh that was the whole concept, yet it'd still be easy for us to quickly take it down so we can get an ambulance in, or frankly, just move it so we can do something that we need to do.

So um, you know, dressing them up, we could probably wrap something around them, but we do have to move them, you know.

They and so that going into the ground or some is not something I'm gonna be thrilled with if the break and and where do you put them?

You know, every every festival is a little bit different.

So that's just my two cents based on working on this a couple years ago.

Questions or comments?

All right, I will open the public hearing on this item at 7.39 p.m.

Anyone wishing to speak for or against this item, you know, please come up to the microphone.

Not seeing anyone, we'll close it also at 7.39 p.m.

suspend the rules.

I hear a motion to suspend the rules and act on this ordinance.

Do I have a second?

All right, please vote.

We are acting on this ordinance.

Do I have a motion to approve?

All right, go ahead and vote.

All right, this passes unanimously.

Uh next up is first reading of ordinance Z 701-25, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana.

Sponsor Counselors Ayers, Joe Sheep, Minar, and Snyder.

This uh do I have a motion to introduce?

Move to introduce.

Okay.

All right, Councilor Manar, would you read the synopsis?

An ordinance amending UDO Article 1 relating to the unified development ordinance foundations and general provisions.

All right, Sergey.

Good evening, Sergey Gruchukin Office of Corporation Council.

This item was originally introduced in Lend Use Committee.

It's a part of a UDO update that actually this one was the very first item that the land use looked at over a year ago and uh received a very long review uh section by section, article by article.

So it's finally comes uh to you in its final form back to council.

You sent it to Plant Commission, which we did have a public hearing on this on August 19th, 2025, it was certified, and certification expires on November 17th, 2025.

The ordinance number now is Z-701-25.

But it was only one correction made, which is a very small correction on line 91 through 93.

It removes the reference to joining agreement with township because all the land in Carmel has been incorporated since the passage of a UDO originally.

So it's just a minor house clean correction.

Everything else is the same.

I would be happy to go line by line, but we've we've done that the very first time that because it was a council initiated ordinance.

We've done that before, but I would be happy to go line by line again.

I'll answer any questions you may have.

Any questions or comments from council?

Reminder the public, this originally in land use, council has considered it, went to plan commission.

It's back to council.

I will open the public hearing for this item at 7.42 p.m.

Anyone wishing to speak for or against, please come to the microphone.

Not seeing anyone, I will close the public hearing at 7 42 p.m.

Do I have uh any kind of motion for this ordinance on first reading?

I move to suspend the rules and vote on this this evening.

Second.

All right.

Go ahead and vote to suspend the rules.

And this passes.

And then do I have a motion to approve?

Move to approve.

Second.

All right, go ahead, please vote.

This passes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh sir.

You may want to hang out there.

I think the next one's probably you.

Um next stop is petition to vacate a public way.

571 First Avenue Southeast, Jamie Featherstone.

Sergey, do you have uh presentation or some comments on this?

Yeah, let me let me introduce it first or give you a little bit of a background.

We have a petitioner here that um this is this is a public hearing as well, and presentation should come from petitioner, but there is some background that you need to be aware of on that particular property.

So uh the property in question, if I can have uh oriented way here.

So the property the property in question to be vacated is this highlighted area right here.

It's off um First Avenue Southeast between parcels, 570 First Avenue Southeast, and 530 first 70 Southeast.

But 530 uh First Avenue Southeast petitioned for a partial vacation of that alley back in 2017, and it was granted in 2017 by ordinance D-2362-17.

At the time, uh the neighbors to the South, 570 were not included.

I'm not sure why it was before my time, but regardless, only a half of the alley was vacated and included in the 530 parcel.

You will see that uh 530 parcel is a little bit bigger, it's a little bit wider because that's the alley used to be right here.

So that portion was vacated in 2017.

Now the owners of 570 first Avenue Southeast are petitioning for vacation of that second um half of the alley.

Every property surrounding it has been either vacated, the property to the west, this parcel has been vacated already.

It used to be a uh an alley there, and obviously the road goes Walnut Street, turns into First Avenue, and then um so there's no way for that alley to be utilized anymore.

And the the engineering department has reviewed it, recommended a favorable recommendation, so it so did BPW.

And now I believe we have a petitioner here.

If you want to add anything, but that's essentially what is being asked.

Petitioner, if you'd like to add any comments.

Um good evening, council.

Pleasure.

Jeff, you you are wonderful with civility, and I've never seen anything but positivity from you.

Um the property was actually vacated back in 2017.

Um I wasn't for it, obviously, because I had already been granted uh most of that property through a judge and a judgment.

So this happened, and it just took a toll on me, and I didn't have any fight in me, and I just gave up and kind of said whatever.

So here we are.

I'm just gonna accept this, move forward, put it in God's hands, and uh I just want to live the rest of my life as long as I can here on First Avenue and enjoy my time here.

So I guess that's pretty much all I had to add.

Any questions for me?

Questions from the council, Council Snyder?

You had a question?

Well, I just clarifying the city is vacating it.

And transferring the ownership to you, correct?

Well, yes, but a judgment had been made uh back in 2002 with the prior owners uh that it was given to them for taking care of the property since 1955.

But now you're getting it.

Presumably you've been taking care of it, I assume.

Sir Gatsy, is there some conflicting information here?

No, not conflicting.

I just want to make sure that we're on the same page here.

What we're talking about, and that I was if I made the oh yes, absolutely.

I'm sorry.

The only the half of an alien was vacated in 2017.

So I'm not sure what judgment is concerned, but this is not what's in front of you today.

What we're talking about is just the second half being vacated, as it probably should have been, because usually we're split between the two adjoining parcels.

It just wasn't done in 2017.

But essentially correcting a clerical mistake of sorts.

Uh I'm not sure why the 570 parcel was not included on that petition, but it wasn't.

Can you I and I'm I'm sorry, I I there's no I have no fundamental, I have no opposition to this.

I just want to make sure I understand it.

So 570, okay.

Did was the piece above the highlighted portion vacated 2570 or 2530?

To 530.

So okay, so they split it in half.

530 got half, and now 570 is getting their other half that probably should have been done.

You exactly.

Okay.

Are you excited about this?

Are you just you seem upset?

So I want to make sure like I'm not missing something.

I still lost property.

I still lost property in this deal.

I went from basically two lots to one lot.

They went from one lot to two lot.

The man came in, saw a discrepancy, the property happened to be for sale.

He bought the property, he moved the garage, he ended up with two lots, and I I lost I lost a big part of my property.

Or no, the follow, so it was split into two parts.

You think you lost or you lost the this north part or this the second part?

Okay.

Yes, I lost property.

But the point is is that it's over with.

I should have never maybe never even brought this up tonight, but it was a I was a land issue like none that anyone had seen before, but I just didn't feel like I I received the attention on the issue that I should have because it's all it's all I have.

When I brought bought this property, I bought it uh taking care of my parents, and this is my IRA.

This is this is you know all I have to fall back on, and I knew what I was going to potentially get, which has been reduced probably at least $300,000.

But you know, I just hope this doesn't happen to anyone else in the future.

That's that's you know one of I I would just like to say, like, I'm sorry that that has happened from a process standpoint and totally understand what you're going through.

And I yeah, it's uh that's a big burden to bear for as long as you did, thinking from 2002 to 2017 that that was all yours and it became not.

And I I would say as we go into things like this, this is a good example of a thing that doesn't come to the council very often.

Um when it comes, like the context of what you've been through and your grace and saying it's let's move forward and move on with our lives on it, even with all that stress.

I think gives us clarity that something we should look at when we're splitting parcels and somebody comes with a request like this that there is not an outstanding judgment or lean on that where ownership has already been decided in some other capacity.

And I could see how this could get sticky if 15 years go by, there's a new owner, he made a claim to come here and receive what's being kind of created tonight from a legal perspective on that top half without a full validation of what the actual legal standing to the land was.

Just a good reminder if we do more of these moving forward to verify that we're we're checking on those interests that might already exist.

So that's mostly what I just wanted to get across.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um with that, um, this is a public hearing, and I will open the public hearing at 7.51 p.m.

If we have anyone to speak for or against, please approach the microphone.

Seeing nobody, I will close this public hearing at 7.52 p.m.

I don't think we even have to suspend the rules.

No, you just move.

We don't need to suspend the rules today.

Uh the ordinance will be brought at the next meeting since this was just a public hearing to for on a petition.

All right.

To have a motion to approve.

All right.

Go ahead and vote.

All right, and the ordinance will come to us.

I hope this, while this doesn't fix the whole thing, I hope this provides some improvement for your situation.

Thank you.

Yes.

Just for my own education, can you explain uh that process?

I just understand.

Sure.

So on a land on a land issue.

There's a is there a legal reason the ordinance has to come after the hearing, or is there uh well just because we didn't know what the result of a uh hearing would be of a petition.

We didn't know if that would to be granted or not granted.

Um and so we'll bring the ordinance as a secondary matter to conclude it at the next meeting, and you will see exactly what I mean a little bit later on your agenda.

And speaking of that, moving on to new business.

Our next item is first reading of ordinance D 2777-25, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana, vacating a portion of public right-away known as Calvert Place.

Sponsor is Councillor Austin.

The motion reduced.

So moved.

Second.

All right.

Sergey, we've already unanimously voted on the first step of this at a previous meeting.

Right, exactly.

Just to a reminder and uh council Schneider, another reason why uh we need to bring it back is because we need a an actual legal description.

So once once you approve the petition, we'll bring it back to you so it can actually be recorded.

So that's exactly what happened in the uh petition that you already approved last um last meeting.

There was a public hearing on this.

So this is the ordinance that actually acts on your approval of petition.

It has a legal description, will be recorded and then it will be finalized with the recorder's office.

Do we have any questions?

If not, I'll entertain a motion on this first reading of an ordinance.

Motion to suspend the rules.

All right, motion second.

Please vote.

Wait for the button.

There you go.

All right, we can now act on this ordinance this evening.

Do I have a motion?

Second.

All right, please vote.

All right, this passes.

Next up is first reading of ordinance D 2784-25, an ordinance in the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana, amending chapter 4, Article 6 of the Carmel City Code.

Sponsors are counselors Minar and Taylor.

Do I have a motion introduced?

So moved.

Second.

Alright, Councilor Minard, would you read the synopsis?

An ordinance an ordinance amending and clarifying requirements of Chapter 4, Article 6 of the Carmel City Code relating to the residential rental dwelling registration and permit program.

Alright.

Sergey, could you give a little synopsis of this?

Well, so let me give you a little bit of a background how this uh came along.

As you know, you passed an ordinance on the rental cap uh with 10% rental cap for residential dwelling units.

Uh our department, as well as DOCS as well as administration and um police sometimes occasionally received a lot of questions about the ordinance, how it will operate, when when a legacy dwellings will kick in, when can we register, etc.

So as of right now, DOCS is working on implementation of the ordinance.

They are we contract it with a software provider that you approved.

They are in testing mode right now, so it's it's getting it's getting close to being almost fully implemented.

But um administration asked our department to draft an ordinance that would clarify frequently asked questions if you will.

Because there are some questions that ordinance did not address.

You contemplated that it will but potentially it may be changed as we receive feedback from a public.

We have received quite a bit of feedback.

So this ordinance clarifies certain things and then just cleans up certain things that uh were not done in the first first order first ordinance.

So I would be happy to go kind of line by line because there are quite a few amendments, some of them are cleaning up amendments, some of them are substantive amendments that hopefully will make ordinance a little bit easier to understand for the public.

Please do spend more time on the substantive if that's all right.

Sure.

If I can if I can have the yeah, there we go.

Okay, so the the first the first amendment comes on line 33 through 37.

So it makes it clear that uh in order for to receive a residential dwelling permit and to register a building actually has to be constructed, and you have to have uh certificate of occupancy.

We receive that question quite often.

What if I would like to construct a building in the future?

Can I register it today?

And the answer is as far as I was reading the original ordinance is no, you have to have a building that is ready to be uh let for uh to be a rental rental unit.

And uh except for renovation or replacement, this language will come later, and I'll explain why as well.

And uh another important clarification is in order to seek a permit, you uh the owner may not claim the homestead exemption on that property.

So that's a defining factor.

That's what makes it for software easier to recognize what properties are rental units, what properties are not.

So that is an important factor as well, uh clarification point, rather.

The uh next amendment is partly substantive, partly clarification on line 44.

It's it's not that on or before January 1st, 2026, all owners have to register.

It's period.

All owners of uh residential rental dwelling dwellings have to register.

It's a legacy dwellings that are affected by January 1st, 2026 deadline, and that's what amendment makes it clear.

But to maintain legacy dwelling status, all owners of legacy dwellings must register such dwellings by December 31st, 2025.

Um after after December 31st, 2025, the legacy dwelling status will expire for those wishing to register new units.

So that's amendment clarifies that uh next amendment is on line 59.

Again, it's uh addition addition to the um residential rental dwelling unit application, which adds a verification that the residential rental dwelling is constructed and ready to be led for occupancy.

Eight uh subsection eight on line 61 also amend also been amended.

It's um it requires an affirmation under penalties of perjury that owner that owners beneficial owners of a residential rental dwelling has not been cited for violation of any requirement imposed by city code, is current on on all city of Carmel utility invoices and has not been the subject of more than free civil citations or criminal charges within the preceding 24 months.

So that's again that's uh discussion has been had of how do we confirm that you know the owners have not been cited under our code or have been subject to criminal persecution.

Uh we thought it would be a good idea to have an affirmation under uh penalties of perjury because occasionally that information is can be pretty complicated to check.

Uh another clarification is on line 84.

If ownership changes after December 31st, 2025, a residential rental dwelling loses its status as a legacy dwelling.

That would that is probably number one question that we received.

So this is clarifies that if one of the ways to lose your legacy status is to change ownership of your residential rental dwelling.

Um obviously before December 31st, 2025 it's irrelevant, but after December 31st, 2025, uh the legacy dwelling status will be lost if the ownership is changed.

On 8789 is just a small clarification, it's not substantive.

91, it is just a mistake.

There was before it's not home rental dwelling permits, it's residential rental dwelling permits.

It just corrects that.

The sections 98 through 108, it's it's just uh makes it a little bit shorter and references affirmation and information that's already been included in section 4-501 without a need to spell them out again.

Same with small uh corrections through the end of a page.

Another uh correction comes begins on page sorry um line 124 goes through line 130.

Uh we wanted to clarify that the determination of whether the 10% cap has been met is at the time of application, not receiving of a permit, but that's the time of application.

So it's first come, first serve basis when you submit your application.

That's when we will check whether 10% cap has been met.

Uh another substantive change comes from.

Oh, sorry, one more correction on 129 for 130.

When a registered residential rental dwelling with a valid permit is being renovated or rebuilt, the rental permit will remain active.

We received that question a couple times as well.

What happens if I discontinue renting my unit, but I'm actively renovating it or even rebuilding it.

Uh the idea is to avoid any sort of plighted buildings.

Uh the idea is to encourage renovations to rental dwelling units or even rebuilding of rental dwelling units without without a threat of losing your permit.

So that's that's a correction there.

On um line 132 for 135, it's a pretty substantial substantive correction.

Indiana Code allows $5 registration fee annually to be charged for a running of a program.

So that was not done at the first ordinance.

DOCS Department of Community Services requested that it be added.

So a five dollar registration fee, annual fee for each residential rental dwelling permit is added.

Again, it is the limit that Indiana Code establishes, so we cannot go higher than that.

But additionally, a late fee of up to 200 may be charged if the owner fails to pay the annual registration fee within two months of the renewal date.

So it again it's adds a rental registration fee of five dollars and uh a late fee of up to 200.

The rest uh corrections on that page up to 159 are um just minor corrections, but no substantive.

Um another small correction comes from the line 159 for 161.

It's a service of service, it has to do with service of process and notices.

So the ordinance does require uh certified mail.

However, unfortunately, sometimes certified mail is not picked up, and um it gives a DOCS director an opportunity if it's been returned back as undeliverable to um deliver notice for personal service or first class mail to the address indicated in the registration form.

Remember that um rental units owners have to provide a registration on the registration form where we like to be served.

Certified mail unfortunately has that limitation is that you actually have to pick it up and sign for it.

So if that happens, that allows DOCS direct director to use other means of service.

Sergei, can I interrupt you for a minute?

Because I I think confusion here.

Yeah, so um, thank you for going some of these changes.

So uh here, Councillor Snyder, do you want to kind of explain?

So uh I I guess I uh I didn't read line by line on these edits because I hadn't made the assumption, and then what caught my eye was the sponsors.

Um this is not the ordinance that was sent to you.

It says no that our legal counsel put together and sent to you, and then Adam sent a follow-up email that said, hey, here is what the city council's council has put together, and it was a full ordinance.

It was sent to you on June 16th.

And this is subsequently different than so I'm I'm curious.

Rich isn't here to defend himself, but like what conversations have you had with the initial author?

Just I want to jump just so everybody knows the the ordinance that and I think that it councillor Minar, you were a conversation with Councillor Taylor about this, uh amending the original um uh rental cap ordinance to include condominiums.

Um this is I had sent that to Sergey and Rich and said, hey, I know the mayor is working on changes.

Can we take this and the mayor's changes and maybe get them into one ordinance that we can look at?

But this appears to be just the mayor, the changes from the city hall and and none of the changes requested by council.

So I can address the condominium issue.

I uh we did talk to Councilmanar as well as Councillor Taylor on the issue of condominiums, and they were both comfortable of not including it this round of revisions.

So if that's not included, is it's because we received a green light not to.

When you say this round, was it uh councillor Minar, I mean I didn't I I just haven't been updated.

Do you want to kind of do we want to address that later?

Because we have an ordinance here now.

Did we want to look at it or what did we think?

I'm sorry, ask me your question.

I was reading, so sorry, ask me your question again.

Sorry.

So we had an ordinance written that addressed condominiums, and it was, you know, at kind of the request of you and Councillor Taylor.

Yeah.

Um are we still pursuing that?

And if so, would we not want to just include it at this time while we're at this open?

You can't.

I mean, Sergei can tell you that it's there's some legal um statutory laws that would it's just not feasible to do it.

So um and and some really good legal precedents for it.

And I not I I totally understand all that.

I just oh I did, yeah, about the other I just would love to hear that too.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Can just how why the condominiums can't be.

I'd love to also have to kind of say Oh, I'm sorry.

I'll I'll let yeah, I'll let Sergey explain that to you.

And and another clarification is to answer um councillor Schneider question.

I did send this final version to both Councilman R and Councillor Taylor.

Um, I believe in sometime in August when it was drafted.

So all of that has been coordinated with the two original sponsors.

Um as far as condominium regulation, there are several reasons why we did not, our department, meaning city legal department did not recommend including condominiums in this ordinance amendment.

Um because condominiums are regulated by condominium act, it's an Indiana code.

Um although it does not regulate um the rental caps, it's just it it doesn't have it.

It has a lot of relationships that are being regulated in that code, including the ownership, ownership of units, ownership of land, ownership of um common areas, um, etc.

Relationship between the owners of the association and individual owners, um, etc.

So in many ways, regulation of condominiums are preempted by the state.

It's it's simple as that.

Number two, the way we define the neighborhood, and that's is really where logistical issue comes in, is the neighborhood is divide by the type of subdivision on your property card.

Unfortunately, a lot of the newer condominiums that we have today have mixed units.

A proscenium is one example of that, there are a couple of others, where the same neighborhood, but we define it's a foundational piece of this ordinance includes multifamily units as well as condominium units.

So it would be um next to impossible for the software or otherwise to separate which unit is is which.

So for all those reasons, we recommended not to include it.

We'd be happy to look into it more.

Um, but as of right now, those amendments were not included in in this round of um clarifications.

And let me let me um just say this to you, Matt, and to the rest of the council.

I had not realized that you guys did not have a full copy of this document.

So that is I will fall on the sword on this one and tell you I apologize for not sending it to you and that you didn't have a chance to read it.

However, I felt, I mean, by looking at this, is there something, and I'm I'm just asking, are there things in the um in the changes that were made that you see issues with specifically?

So I mean I'll jump in and then we'll look at the council.

I mean, this ordinance here, I don't see it feels very clean up, and I don't see very many objections to this, although I would you know could always take more time.

My only thought was I had some counselors who felt very strongly about something, um, and it may not even be my issue, but then it was not included in there.

So I raised the question if if you wanted to have that conversation, um, what would now be an appropriate time or not?

Counselor Locke.

Well, I think um I mean it it feels like it's time too for this to go back to land use to talk about this issue and what we've run into to begin with.

Obviously, when we passed it, there's a lot of feedback and a lot of discussion on what it could be, what it could look like.

Um trying to shape it, there's obviously been some some feedback on things that needed to be tweaked, which I see in this as I read through it.

But I I see other things like the the fee.

There's a the provision under statute that kind of put us in a position where we're talking about doing this at all on the front end says that you can't charge a fee for a permit, um, which was the reason there was not one to begin with.

So I would just really as we go through this, I think this needs to be fully vetted again.

Um and probably add land use to go through kind of those things and then maybe fleshing out what it looks like the condominium piece is concerning if we are attempting to do this with the intent to limit rentals, um, that leaves a glaring loophole in the process.

Um just even a procedural question.

Do we know does DOCS have kind of the registration open?

Can you can the legacies get in now or changing the language to say you must have we're still in the testing mode?

I did see a presentation with a software provider.

At this point, I think it's been about two weeks.

And um they were quite long uh definitely, but we hope that we will finalize it in the near future.

I don't know, I don't have a date for you, but um very definitely working um very deep into the process.

Let's go.

So that was my one there.

I would just verify that that adding a fee doesn't isn't just a poison pill that automatically kills this.

The fee is directly from Indiana Code, but that allows five up to five dollars, but it's limited, limits it for registration rental registration program.

That statute has nothing to do with the CAP, just the registration program.

So this is where it's this.

I am gonna send this to land use.

Um, but with that being said, any other last comments or questions?

Because it will go to land.

Counselor Schneider I mean I Sergey, I well, I'm 91 days I've thought that we've been working on one thing, and then tonight I find out we're working on something else, and that frustrates me.

Um but it did cue me to start filling out the link.

I am starting to get nervous though that the December 31st day is approaching fast, and I don't know how we're gonna get this out in its final form, and I think that's one thing we should probably have a conversation about.

Um so and here's here's a question.

I am filling out one of these, this pre-registration form.

There's no way where does that go?

Is it will I have to do something else?

Will I get something back?

As in I don't know, I guess.

But details, I don't know those details yet.

I can some the community is being asked to fill out a form online, where's it going?

DOCS.

And is that is that all I need to do?

DSCS is an administrator.

Um I can ask uh director Halibah to appear at the next land use meeting or a representative from DOCS to update where we are exactly in the process.

Again, I'm my information is a little bit obsolete on this.

Okay, but I know that it is approaching its uh completion.

And I'm not I'm not sure if we are a couple weeks away, maybe a month away, but our hope is that general public will have at over a month, if not over two months, to submit registrations for legacy dwellings.

Matt, if if I can clarify too, one of the things that Director Hollibal had mentioned at some point was that the telemont telling me telling me does all the administrative work, so you should get a kickback.

I mean you should get an email that kicks back to you that says you it has been received, it's being processed.

I do know that piece of it if that gives you any consolation whatsoever.

And also one more thing to clarify that these round of amendments, they will not stole the registration program itself.

So if registration program is still being implemented, and this is not going to affect it.

So once it's operational, once it's online, people will be able to start registering their rental units regardless where it is in the process.

This particular amendment.

So then we need to look at, and this probably needs to be taken down as I read this.

Says on this form, there is no registration required at this time.

Completion of this pre-registration form will allow the city to easily contact you when it does open.

It just says the system will be completed.

It doesn't say you have to do anything by then.

So it's in conflict with our existing ordinance.

I will I will contact our um marketing and communications department to see if we can update that as well.

Um again, we hope that but we'll be at least a month if not longer for uh residents to register their units.

I don't have an exact date when the dilemma software will be operational, but hopefully so.

All right.

We'll send this to land use committee.

And uh moving on, we have first reading of ordinance D 278625, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana amending Chapter 6, Article 5, uh Division 8, Section 6-158, D7 of the Carmel City Code, sponsor is Councillor Joshi to have a most introduce.

Move to introduce.

All right, Councilor Joe, she would read the synopsis.

The ordinance amending the noise exemption ordinance to include a night before the Diwali Festival of Lights.

All right, Councillor Joshua, do you want to explain this?

Yeah, so basically, as most festivals are are celebrated in the world, there is usually an eve of the festival and the festival day itself.

So think New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, same thing.

There is what we call little Diwali and Diwali, so it's kind of the best way to explain that.

So it's the night before.

So many um I had gotten some some questions about is it possible to have that extra evening, knowing that Diwali is a floating holiday and doesn't always arise on the weekends.

Um it is always presented sort of this issue, but having that extra day allows for people to potentially celebrate on the weekend.

I did have a good conversation with Chief Sterling on this, who was comfortable with that change and didn't feel like it would increase any issues for his officers or the department.

And I did also have um in full transparency a conversation with um Chief Thacker from the fire department about obviously safety of fire fireworks during the October, sort of September, October time frame just to make sure that we had some understanding of you know if there was some issuance of a notification that it was too dry or unsafe to set off fireworks, that that could also be part of this.

Um we could adjust it to that, but wanted to make sure that we talked about this completely.

So really talked about all those issues and they were both in support of adding this one day to the ordinance.

So that's really all the amendment does is add the one day.

And then we would have to we do this on an annual basis, depending on the dates.

Um no, I think if we just say the day before and the day of Diwali, it doesn't then have to come back year after year after year.

It's just on the yeah.

Awesome.

Any questions?

I I do have clarification on that.

We actually already allow fireworks on a day of Diwali.

So this is what what it looks now.

The simple amendment is just editing but day before Diwali uh at 5 p.m.

to 11 p.m.

All right.

Any comments or questions?

If not, um this is a ordinance on first reading.

Motion is suspend the rule.

All right, please vote.

All right, we have a motion is passes.

Motion to approve.

All right, please vote.

All right.

This passes.

All right, next up, we have resolution CC 915 2501, a re a resolution of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana approving a transfer of funds within the police department budget 1110.

Sponsor Counselors Taylor and we're all the motion or move to introduce.

Second.

All right, Councillor Row would read the synopsis.

All right, yes, this is a transfers 87,000 within the 2025 police department budget.

We'll take uh uh the 87,000 from line item 41100 into split it up into two.

Uh cars and trucks will be 61,000, other equipment 26,000.

All right.

Chief, any comments?

No, that is as a reason, and CFO Jackson has more info in case you have any specific questions.

So this is paying off capital leases early.

That's right.

There are three transfers on the agenda tonight that either uh that move dollars for the purposes of of uh uh paying off capital leases.

Some we are technically paying off uh uh one, for example, with the the street department uh we we uh we're paying that off because we we want to trade that asset in on something that meets our needs better.

Uh the several of these though, we are moving dollars into place so that we can fully encumber the the life of the uh all remaining payments, but it does not make financial sense to literally pay it off today as the interest rate that we're getting at the bank is is higher than the interest rate on the the capital lease.

But counselor Snyder John in principle, like all these make sense.

Um but is uh my my only question is the timing is we're in the middle of reviewing all the budgets and then we're moving money around, maybe in the future we just either do this before the budget's presented or after a budget is approved.

Just to eliminate one more cog in the machine that's happening.

Yeah, and understood it, and you're right.

These facilitate the the numbers that are in the budget by by buying down the ongoing appropriations using one-time dollars, but you're exactly right.

Any other questions or comments from the council?

This is the resolution.

Motion to approve.

All right, please vote.

All right, this passes.

Thank you.

Uh next up is resolution CC09 152502, a resolution of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana approving a transfer of funds within the engineering department budget 2200.

Sponsors are counselors Taylor and Wurell.

Do I have a motion to reduce?

Move to introduce.

Second.

All right, Councilor, would you read the synopsis?

All right, transfer 60,000 within the 2025 engineering department budget.

So we'll go from full-time regular 60,000 into automobile lease, $60,000.

All right.

Anything else you want to add, Zach?

Same description as before.

Any questions from the council?

Do I have a motion?

Motion approved.

Second.

All right, please vote.

All right, this passes.

We have resolution CC09152503, a resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, approving a transfer of funds within the Street Department budget 2201.

Sponsors, sponsors are counselors Taylor and World.

Do I have a motion to reduce?

Move to introduce.

Alright, would you read the synopsis, Council Warrell?

Okay.

This one is transfers $394,000 within the 2025 Street Department budget.

We're going from full-time regular $394,000, down to cars and trucks, $394,000.

And does any of this go towards the barricades too?

Or that's correct.

The uh in part this is going towards uh the the half that's owed by the street department for the mobile barricades.

So part of it's for barricades, part of it's for paying off capital leases.

That's correct.

What's and what's the amount for the is it $300,000?

What's the amount just for the barricades?

Yeah, the grand total for the barricades was $360,000.

Okay.

I'll just divide that by two.

Um there questions, comments from the council.

They have a motion on this introduction on this resolution.

Motion to approve.

All right, please vote.

All right, this passes.

Next up is resolution CC09152504, a resolution of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana amending certain uh central designated outdoor refreshment area locations and hour of operation.

Move to introduce.

All right, uh second, then read the synopsis, Councilor Warrell.

Moving this along.

A resolution amending the central designated outdoor refreshment area by excluding certain locations and hours from the area's operation.

Um I'm gonna try and make a case to give you comfort to approve this tonight, but I fully understand it could go to committee.

But in essence, uh the door committee, we um have discovered that there is a real challenge with no alcohol coming into a specific door area for specific events where there's a legitimate reason to have other alcohol like Chris Kindle market with their boots.

Um let's see, what was the other one?

Uh now I'm gonna miss it.

Uh and the gaze well, the gazebo concerts is a little bit different.

Gazebo concerts, we've trained everyone to bring their own alcohol.

There's nowhere else to buy alcohol on site.

Of course, the whole purpose of this thing was to increase uh sales.

So um so we've so we learned that we could actually exclude the Dora district on specific times for specific reasons.

So this is outlining for you, Carter Green, January 24th, for the oh, winter games, that was the other one.

Winter games uh at the ice thing when we don't necessarily well we have the the Chris Kindle is you know well we don't even have that, but there's just no alcohol to buy there.

So that's what we're doing winter games, gazebo concerts, Chris Kindle Market.

This uh did pass unanimously, it was well vetted, there were good reasons, and it just will make it easier for our wonderful police department to not have to deal with um Dora in those very specific areas where it does not benefit us.

And when you say pass the the Dora committee vote Dora committee, correct, yeah.

All right, Councillor Snyder, and then please point to me if you want to comment.

I I just want to say we we set up a process that gave this committee authority.

Admittedly, I haven't been in your meetings, but boy, I don't need to.

I mean, you've got a committee, your committee vetted it, made a recommendation.

That was the process set up, and I'm comfortable following the process.

Thank you.

Councillor Manar Yeah, I I'll motion, I'll I'll motion to I'll move to approve it after this.

But um I just want to say I watched the entire Dora meeting when you guys discussed this, and I think it you put a lot of thought and process into it.

So I I have no issues with this.

Thank you.

You watch the meeting?

Oh my gosh.

I watched them all.

I watched BPW.

So I that's her Netflix.

Move to approve.

We don't need to suspend the rules for this, do we?

No, it's a resolution.

It's just a resolution.

Okay.

So move to approve, please.

You got a second.

Second.

All right.

Any other conversation?

If not, please vote.

All right.

This is six.

Yes.

To abstain, it passes.

Moving on, we have no agenda ad items, no uh other business.

I'm gonna talk about this quickly.

I don't think we're acting on this tonight.

We have a city council appointment as part of um the changes to the Carmel Chris Kindle Market Board.

We have two city council appointees.

One of them is Councillor Snyder right here.

The other one is to replace uh Maddie Augustus, who has stepped off the board and she has already stepped off uh as she goes on to maternity leave, and she will not be returning to the board.

So we get uh a nomination that the council will all vote on and then goes to the mayor.

Um it is a two-year term beginning August 30th.

Um I do not expect that we would act on it this this evening.

Um my other question, and just think about it too, is I know there's been conversation about whether or not experienced caramel would absorb the Chris Kindle Market Board.

So another reason, well, it was in the public comments they made.

So another reason that perhaps we'll hold off on making this nomination, but please start thinking of individuals.

Um announcements.

Do we have any announcements?

All right, if not, I will injure.