Yep, yeah.

All right, Mark, let's get started at six o'clock.

And our roll call, we have Fred Swift, Nick Kessner, Emily Ergott, Barry Simich, Matt Uber, and well Fred.

Oh, Fred, you're the first one.

I already said you.

And then Mark and Alex are in attendance.

Um approval of minutes from the February 12th meeting.

Would anybody any comments on that or anybody see any?

I move that we accept the minutes has written.

Second.

Okay, and um in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

No.

All right.

Um then let's move.

Did you want to move up the almond drive up to here?

I would say let's go through like the basics.

Yep.

Okay.

Okay.

Certificate of appropriateness review.

Anything?

None?

Okay.

Report on staff approvals.

None of those.

None.

Nope.

Financial report, Alex.

Um, yes.

So the uh most up to date numbers are the budget is 42,018 and 99 cents.

With a non-reverting fund of 233,434 and 64 cents.

Oh, these numbers are subject to change because um I just saw um Matt's final project for the last year's spring round.

So try to think how do you know if I'm sure you you would have no better.

What was your amount you'd be approved for?

Okay.

So that would obviously take a chunk out of the numbers I just said.

But those are the numbers as of tonight.

Okay.

Um I'll just also add real quick.

We still this is on me, still have not filed an invoice yet for our services.

Um I should have I should have done that by now and I haven't.

So we're still here tonight as a freebie.

Okay.

That sounds good.

Well, we'll get that figured out.

And I think did we have any other communication from them about trying to make sure if there's any other things that we could do to make sure that our money is uh the yeah.

I mean, it's just sort of it is what it is.

It's what was passed by the council, and so we're working with what we got.

Okay.

Um are there any other budget updates?

No.

Okay.

No.

Um let's go.

Do you want to move the let's the demo delay on 1013 Almond Drive West?

And I think that came in the email with um that Alex sent.

Yeah.

Yes, so Alex did prep a staff report uh that I think you all received uh for the property.

Um I think I talked a little bit at the last meeting about Almond Drive and how when we had approached that semicircular neighborhood initially, we were thinking it could be a uh a local historic district in and of itself uh at the time.

And back then and around 2013-14, I would say 90 percent of the neighborhood still survived, and so it was still pretty intact, and so that made sense.

Um by the time we did the updated survey in 21 uh that that was completed, um the neighborhood had been and and you all know because some of those have come before us uh have was pretty uh eaten away, let's say by demolition and and deterioration that it occurred over over those intervening years.

So unfortunately, the Almond Drive neighborhood today, and by the time we did that survey no longer was considered to be a historic district, so they identified individual structures throughout the neighborhood that were and retained some of their significance, um, of which this was considered to be one that um the applicant is Patrick Chittenden is with us tonight.

Um and he can certainly talk a little bit more about his thought process and plans.

Um he did submit uh what we have visually up on the screen, which are some examples of what has occurred.

Is that correct?

In those are all real real pictures.

Right, in the neighborhood.

Um so whether these are ones that came before you or not, you know, because again, if it was one that was not identified on the survey, it would have you would have never seen it.

So it's one that was, which I know we have had some, uh a few that we've looked at, uh those may or may not be reflected on the sheet that you're seeing on the screen.

Typically, what we like to see from an applicant, at least is a sense of what it is that is going to go there on the property, and and as far as I know, we do not have plans or renderings or or some specific drawing that has been provided of what is being proposed.

Um, so we can't react to that.

Um and you guys will remember the one that you heard at last month's meeting was a revisit because we did not feel that at his first meeting with you that he had provided adequate documentation information of what he wanted.

In this case, what's a difficult is we have a 60-day demolition delay hold on this application that was submitted, I believe on January 20th.

Um so we were able to push and and Patrick couldn't be here last month.

He had a conflict, so we're able to push him back to this month and still hear it within that 60 day window.

But we unless you made a decision to extend that demolition delay hold to April, which by the way, we believe now is indeed switching to the last Monday of the month.

So we are switching, and we'll talk about that later on the agenda.

Um that uh we really need to kind of look at and make some decisions tonight.

So why don't you, if you don't mind, come up to the table if you push the button on the microphone there at the base, uh it becomes like a red color, uh, and then you can speak and everybody can hear you.

So just do a high level kind of sure.

Yeah, the so that this is a unique neighborhood that um is starting.

Uh I don't know that 50% of the houses have been uh demoed and and kind of redone, but it's a definitely a neighborhood with all the stuff that's all the great things that are going down um happening in midtown, uh midtown Carmel with restaurants, etc.

etc.

That um that are starting to happen in this almond drive area.

And um that was the idea when we purchased this to be honest, I didn't even know it was on the historic registry when we purchased the property.

Um this one um does not does not have a garage, had asbestos, does not have a driveway, so it was is pretty run-down uh property.

Um some of the other ones are very well kept.

Um this would be this this is starting to turn into an empty nester type neighborhood.

People who are looking to downsize um and be in the walkable to all the caramel amenities is what's going on in this area, and that's these are literally I just took seven or eight pictures of on the on this actual street.

There's way more, there's there's a lot more of these and this will be for our this would be a downsized residence for as my kids move out and move out of the house for us.

I currently live in Westfield.

But I'm I'm born and raised in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Went to Lawrence Central High School, so I'm I've been here for a long time.

I'm a I'm a commercial real estate developer by trade.

We've done we've partnered with Old Town and Justin Moffitt a lot in this uh midtown neighborhood.

We built the Allied Insurance Building, the garage, the uh the uh midtown park, sunking, everything on the east side of the Monon.

Uh we developed MJ Insurance Building, a lot a lot of that commercial stuff.

Patrick, can you maybe at least maybe you don't have anything specific at this point, but kind of roughly like do you think you have like a square footage or what materials you might be thinking about, or anything kind of general?

Yeah, I mean it we would we would hire old town or some of the other builders in the that have done already you know built these in the neighborhood and it would be something somewhat similar to these in this style of the old town style.

I mean um Justin Moffitt is and Jeff Langston are the owners of old town, they've been doing this for a long time.

Justin sat on this this board for I don't know, seems like quite a few years.

Six years.

Six years, yeah.

Uh and I talked to him earlier or earlier today, and he would help um uh in this process, it'd be a I don't know, a three plus or minus three thousand square foot type home.

Would it be two story?

Yeah, it probably would have some type of two-story, probably not full.

Like I said, this is starting to be an empty nesser type neighborhood, so it might be a partial upstairs.

Okay.

It's on the listing, it says it's a point three two acre.

Do you know do you know the size of the lot?

Um I know it's 75 foot wide.

I can't I don't know exactly how deep it is, but most of those um are 75 foot um uh frontages in that neighborhood.

One of our commissioners that's not here, I know has sort of traditionally asked the question about lot coverage, and I think that kind of goes to what Emily is sort of hinting at you know, and back to what I asked about the square footage is that there are zoning related requirements for lot coverage, so and you probably know this in your business, um, that there are going to be setbacks, side setbacks, and et cetera.

Are you going to try to adhere to what the existing uh requirements are for this area, or do you think you're gonna have to need a variance in terms of the size of the structure?

They recently just came through and put all new sidewalks in the front in most of those front yards and did some uh sewer work, and so I from my knowledge that we wouldn't need a variance, we would uh you know abide by the setbacks, but we that would you know a builder and architect would have to help guide us through all that.

So you haven't actually like you don't have any set plans, these are just similar to what you would want to build.

Yeah.

How long do you think when is your calendar your timetable?

You know, that's probably a better question for my wife.

Uh but um she's not here.

I it'll be in the next um couple years um as we go through that process.

Um you know, this one we were gonna um buy it and just keep it as is and rent it, and then found out there's a specis in it and some other things were deteriorating, and it just it was not gonna be rentable.

So if it you you got a 60-day demo delay in January, so does that mean the 60 days is up the end of this month?

Yeah, it would be up March 20th.

Yeah, so okay.

I think uh one thing to communicate about why the car council put the demolition delay ordinance, which is separate from the ordinance that created the commission, it's uh it came along a few years later, is that we have seen a couple of instances that we can identify where folks have come in doing just what you're asking.

It's a couple years out, they demo the property, and then something changes in their life that they end up not building it, and then we've got a vacant lot without improvements on it, um, which will still have value, but um the point is if we're striving to try to keep what we have with those improvements generating taxes for the city, um, just having a vacant lot sitting there is an ideal.

So, you know, I mean, I guess are you thinking that you would move to demolish it immediately, or when you think you have everything ready to go for instruction?

I mean, we've engaged with the demo company who is whose um Casey Bertram has done all of them in this, a lot of them in this on the street in this area, and um it's just a deteriorating asset right now.

It's it's wide open and and just for lack of a better term, prodding everything, all the all the uh I didn't even know it was on the historic register.

We all the uh uh utilities have been cut off and and it's just sitting there at this point um until we got a notice that that um that the demo was gonna be delayed.

So I mean the goal is to get going on on design and fake and and and move the process forward.

I think um Mark is sharing what my concern is about, you know, there's been other instances where empty lots are still just sitting there, empty lots in neighborhoods that I mean, not that this is a you know, a great example or anything, but it is still a home sitting on a lot in a neighborhood, so it's just better to have something than nothing.

But I would rather if you as long as you're going in a direction, like anybody else have anything else to say?

Questions to ask?

Anything, Fred?

Ready for a motion?

Yeah, I'm go for it.

Would anyone want to make a motion?

They have a motion in mind.

Like I would just say, Fred, if you want to make the motion, I mean the staff did recommend to allow for the demolition of the property, so just adoption of the staff uh recommendation is fine as a motion.

Following the staff's recommendation, I move that we allow the order to proceed with demolition on the I was gonna give the address.

10 oh 1013 almond west.

I second all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Okay, motion passes.

Thank you, Patrick.

Thanks for coming.

Thank you.

Did we get a demolition notification of any kind on Grammarcy apartments?

They tore down an apartment house today.

And they're going to tear another one down tomorrow.

I don't think that's a problem.

I don't think I now that you mention it, I'm sitting here thinking that doesn't sound but now that you mention it, I think we did get that, but it wasn't on the survey.

And so this happens just so you guys know.

I mean, I've said this before, but I get notifications about demolitions.

I think Emily is on that now.

No?

Okay.

Well, anyway, I get notifications in Carmel on a regular basis.

Um I just prior to leaving to come up here signed off on one that's on 146th Street.

So I think the Gramsity Apartments was one that I just said yes, it was fine because it's not on the survey.

And so they probably then proceeded, got their permits and moved out.

I think that's what happened with the house on Westfield Boulevard.

That I was like, they just tore down a house on Westfield Boulevard, and you said yeah, it wasn't it wasn't significant, and it wasn't on the survey.

So we didn't have an opportunity to discuss anything because it wasn't significant.

Yeah, so staff still sees it.

We say, you know, it's cool, go ahead.

And then the demo there's like 15 people copying on these emails, and there are people like Duke Energy or the water uh company for Carmel and you know, you other utilities and et cetera, that the city engineering department, all these different people look at it that are copied on and give sign-offs emails back to the city permitting department.

And then once they have everybody in, they've checked the form, they issue the permit.

So let's go move on to old business.

New meeting room day, which you kind of gave us a little bit of a.

I think Alex has done more of the communication with Sheila.

Um is it much?

Yeah, who who is the um chief of staff's uh assistant.

But she seemed to indicate that if you all did want to go ahead and proceed with it, that we could start meeting on the fourth um Monday of the month, um, starting in April.

Um so could you get out what that date that is, just so we can make sure that we're gonna do that.

Yes, that would be April 20 seven.

Okay, so April 27th would be your next meeting, and we'll of course send you notifications and for reminder purposes.

But the one little bit of a glitch we ran into there is that the fourth Monday in May is Memorial Day.

So we can't meet that day.

So I don't know what everybody's schedule is, but they said because we will begin meeting concurrently with the Board of Zoning Appeals, which will be in here, we will be in the caucus room, remember, is where we'll shift to.

Um that they will meet, if I recall correctly, on Tuesday after Memorial Day, so the next day.

Um so that would be then the next same day we would meet, would be that Tuesday, and again, the materials we send you will reflect that.

Um, but then uh it will be so it'll be at the same time, six o'clock, Tuesday evening, we'll be in there, they'll be in here.

They said that the uh Sheila said that the Board of Zoning Appeals does not meet in December because at the end of the month, that last Monday is during the holidays, so they just don't simply simply don't meet.

We of course have met in December typically.

Um so whether or not we would do that or not, we can evaluate as we get closer to the end of the year.

But does that still work for everyone?

You seem to indicate you were okay with the fourth Monday.

I think I'm okay.

Okay.

For me.

Okay.

So that's the So just look forward to the change of time and or change of venue and date.

It'll be the correct same time.

Same same time.

Just different day.

Yeah.

And then beyond May, it will be back to Monday, Monday and June, fourth Monday in July, you know, from there.

But it's just we have this hiccup with and and we've we've had that before, I think.

I'm trying, no, we haven't.

I was gonna say we've had that with Labor Day, but we haven't because that happens earlier in September.

But um, so yeah, well, so that should be the one.

Will it always meet in the caucus room?

Will we always meet for the caucus room?

Which for some of us who started out there when the commission met in the caucus room, it's sort of returning to our old stomping grounds, so it's not that big a deal.

Have is there anything we need to do about recording?

Um I think between now and the 27th of April, George and I will kind of discuss you told me there's some, it's not as frankly, probably not as good as the stuff in here, but there's some recording technology in there, audio and visual.

That it won't be live streamed necessarily, but it will be recorded of some sort.

Okay, okay.

And I'll make sure I'm here earlier that day to make sure it works.

Okay.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Um moving on to new survey properties.

Yes, and I was I was sitting here looking at it, going, what was I supposed to do on that again?

Um I do remember that um I when I reported last month that I talked to the council about this issue, and there was interest in us moving forward with it.

I just have dropped the ball yet.

I need to talk to the city attorney about drafting the ordinance that will, or resolution, it's not an ordinance resolution that adopts those properties and adds them to the survey.

So we are moving forward.

Uh Alex has been working hard on this to already mail out to the same folks we typically have in the past for the facade grant program.

So it's about 500 or so mailing addresses that that went out to.

Um, but certainly hopefully we will get the resolution in front of council to add all the additional properties here in the next uh month or two.

Okay.

Sounds good.

Um rangeline road preservation plan.

Yeah, and it's interesting.

I was telling Barry that I ran into my collagen on the way in.

He was he was on his way out.

Um we're still working on the actual plan.

Alex has been doing some research, he's been up here, he's been up at the Hamilton County Courthouse looking at records, um, and I'll let him talk here in a minute if he has anything to add to what I have to say.

But uh he's been at Carmel Clay uh History Center talking with them.

So he's gathering all that historical data that makes up a part of the plan.

Um he's already done the on-site, you know, work, photography, et cetera, looking at boundaries, all that has been completed uh already.

So I think what we want to do is start to, and and he and I have already started to review a draft of the plan.

We made it what maybe a third of the way through, um, so we still have more to do in in that editing process to get the plan moving forward.

Um but a reminder that at the and I think I talked about this last month, but at the council meeting where I gave that update, and this is what I was sharing with Barry, that um they had wanted us, I think Councillor Austin specifically feels that we need to make sure that we look at the impact of the designation on the property owners in the area, that they already have, and and Nick referred to this last month too, the the overlay uh that is in place for that North Rangeline Road area, and then some of the buildings, not all of them, are what are called character-defining buildings, which makes them harder to demolish through the um DOCS process.

However, like the process we have, it is not impossible.

It's just a little more difficult in terms of the review.

If we put this plan into place as a conservation district or historic district, you all could tell an applicant that's saying, I want to tear this building down, you could tell them, no, you can't do that.

It's too significant.

We don't want a building to lose that cultural heritage of the community.

So it would be a stricter than what's in place now.

Um I think, at least from my conversation with Mike just now, he said he feels like that's needed.

But what my question for him was out there was one of the other, I think maybe the current president of council pointed out that Dr.

Yosh Yoshi that chairs the land use committee would like to work with us on this plan in the sense that because there's already these existing overlays, and here we come and be putting in another one in place.

Is there a way to streamline that process so that property owners maybe are only coming here and they're not having to deal with those other two, or they're coming here to deal with one and zoning before the plan commission, and that's it.

That's how preservation commissions and boards of zoning appeals or planning commissions, whichever community has supposed to work anyway in tandem is that we do design review, they do land use.

So I think there is a way to work that out.

And Mike said to me outside, yes, I think we can do that.

Um so I said I would get in touch with him and set up a meeting, come up here, meet with he and Angie Khan and try to set up a process that we could propose to the land use committee of council that would just make it a lot smoother for property owners, whether they're making improvements or doing an addition or hopefully not demolition, but at least look at that.

And you know, most of Rangeline Road north of Main Street is still relatively intact now.

And I think that's the way most of us, even people that are pro-growth, I think are want to see it stay that way as kind of old caramel come in from the north through the into the arts and design district, and and you've got this continuity of housing stock that even in some cases is being used for commercial purposes, but uh we're built as historically single-family homes.

So do we know the difference between like the overlay that's already on some of those properties and our like your historical um guidelines that you stick to, are they in line or are we stricter than what the overlay asks them to stay within?

Do you do you know that either one of you?

The overlay has architectural requirements.

We don't have any arguments.

Well, we will.

That's what the plan we're putting together will do.

Yeah.

So they would be in tandem.

They would they would probably be parallel on the if we leave uh if the council adopts our ordinance, because it will be an ordinance to designate that area, um, then and if nothing else is done, then yes, there will be our plan and our guidelines and the architectural review process.

What I think I'm suggesting to Mike, and he seemed to be open to was that we would be then taking on that responsibility for the design, the architectural review process.

That's what you're intended to do.

Yeah.

Um, then if, say, somebody is coming forward, they want to buy a historic home that's on North Rangeline to put a you know clothing, women's clothing store in, for example, um, then and they are currently the property is currently zoned residential, then they're gonna need to have it rezoned commercial, or say there's something they're gonna do to the property for which they need a variance.

They are not coming here for those.

They're going to the plan commission that I think Nick used to sit on.

They're going to that entity for those changes.

So, you know, I would say I I would say the one place that does that differently is in Indianapolis.

Their city county council passed an ordinance that enables any zoning changes or variances of the kind as referenced to not go to their plan commission, but to go to the preservation commission within historic or conservation districts only.

So not in anywhere else than the rest of the community, but like Woodruff Place or the Old North Side or Lockerby Square.

If you have a zoning change within those areas, you're going to the preservation commission like you all, and not to the Plan Commission.

So now that is not the case in any other city in Indiana, so I doubt that is going to occur here.

So those uses of each body would still be there and separate one from the other.

It's just you're doing the design review.

I would say the issue, some from what I have researched with the original overlays is that some of the stuff that it said or the requirements, having now looked at some of the houses on rangeline.

It seems that at times, not always, but sometimes exceptions were made.

So stuff that they said wouldn't happen occasionally did happen.

That's been kind.

That's a nice way to put it in the case.

Yeah, exactly.

Um other comments on the preservation district on rangeline?

No.

Other business?

So just a couple of things, um, or one in particular that's coming to mind is I I don't have anything to report on this, but I did get a call, and I know Matt has specifically expressed an interest in this, um, although I know the rest of you care too, but um that I got a call today about Blue School.

Um I did return the call, but I haven't didn't the person didn't answer, so I don't know what it's referencing, like is has some decision been made at this point uh about its future or not.

I don't know, you know, and maybe they're wanting more consultation with me or you all, but we weren't able to connect, so I don't know what they wanted.

So or we're going to report.

So I can if I learn something, I can email out to all of you just to let you know that kind of good, bad or otherwise, what that is gonna look like.

You know, I drive by it often.

I haven't seen anything, any changes.

I think there may be a black cat that lives there now, but other than that, um, I haven't seen any kind of activity except for in the fall, late summer fall when they tore down a lot of the trees, trees and stuff that were surrounding it.

So I haven't seen anything.

There's hasn't doesn't appear that there's any.

And uh that they had talked to the church and uh where are they moving it?

Over to the park on the river where the house with lawheads house.

Yeah, so uh Hazel Hazledell Landing, which is like 106 dead-ins into or 106 dead ends into Hazeldell.

Yeah, you go across into a park there.

It'd be a straight shot across there.

I don't know that uh that would be an easy move under any circumstances, but it would be an easier move than who's paying for this move going around corners and moving it miles away.

Well, if it's the parks department, I assume the city is paying for it.

I don't know if you want to talk to somebody uh rather than the church, uh which never seems to know very much about it.

Uh maybe you might want to talk to Clitzing at the uh parts department.

Yes, if they are indeed gonna do something, that's I'm surprised I hadn't wouldn't have heard from him already because we're dealing with him on the um that Matt Snyder's the one that told me okay.

That's what I was gonna say.

Did you hear from a like a reliable source that maybe that was City Council member or president?

That's pretty reliable.

Yeah, that's pretty that I would be fine with, honestly.

Like, because I feel like where it is now, I don't feel comfortable that it's gonna have a wall of life.

Yeah, and so I feel like it would have more protection, especially since aren't they putting something in at that park that can is gonna connect the Noblesville, like the river is gonna be like a right over the greenway, yeah.

And eventually it would go from 96th Street up to 146 street.

And I think there are pretty big plans to have like possible dinner cruises, which would have to be barges of some sort.

Have you heard that before?

That there was supposed to be some sort of like you know they're trying to make that a to activate the river.

Yeah.

Thinking about something like it.

Because you know they're gonna move their offices over to this side this side of the river.

And uh have a small retreat center with some yesh brooms and stuff on this side.

So I think they're trying to kind of you know make the river happen for something, but I don't know if they all know it's like knee deep.

So it would have to be some sort of barge that would like travel.

I'm I'm not sure but I've heard kind of rumblings about they're trying to kind of make that a thing and I think they're trying to bring things to the river especially with Jess's house and that being brought in well and they bought that property because of the trail the greenway that Nick referred to to to help uh make that happen in that area.

So this doesn't sound maybe that it's that far fetched it could be could be I guess you gotta believe that if they're gonna spend the money to relocate it that they have a an intended purpose for it.

So that exactly and I haven't heard about this until tonight so I don't know I wonder if there's gonna be a money exchange or that maybe what the call with the it could be extended to you for that could be well keep us posted who has a call do you remember I don't because the way it came in it was just the number and no name because I I hate my our system it's on Teams through the computer and it just shows a number and it doesn't have a unless somebody said their name would it show so there was they didn't say their name so it wasn't in the message so I don't know.

Keep this posted.

Yeah I called back and left a voicemail and so we'll see.

Mark are there any other announcements?

Just uh Matt, I know you raised via maybe email or something about kind of the process of a COA and what that looks like and I didn't know I'm not necessarily suggesting tonight but um you it sounded like might have a COA that you're gonna be bringing in because of your property being designated is that accurate yes that was um yeah just thinking about as we're moving into phases most specifically because we've had some we've had some different thoughts and iterations on that originally we thought because of where the drive was that we were going to make that the front of the house even though it was the back of the house.

Right.

And the more we have just peeled it away and gotten it back to kind of what it more what it was it's clear that the front of the house is the front of the house.

So we're going back to that but then that's been some interesting things with the just little things right but they're just things I think they should be looked at and okay um example is right it's got old historic railing on the upper deck the upper sleeping porch that's that's very prominent when you look at it right and it's that old Z and I just kind of I don't know there's a way to get the old Z railing done right just because it's can't be more than a four inch gap and that kind of thing.

So getting the the right railings and getting some renderings and things like that just to make sure conceptually right especially for that very forward facing piece that we're on track and we're we're we're doing it right and then telling oxide this won't be the end of things we do and things we plan and so I just wanted to know what the process was.

So this this little one it's kind of little but then I I my estimation is also that although we looked at and had planned for there to be a detached garage on the property that as we do that would mock that up and bring that through also I think it makes sense I mean it's just there those are some changes so hopefully I didn't fully look at the process the form but didn't look at the examples and that kind of thing so you got what you needed from Alex though in terms of like here's the COA application and etc etc okay so I don't hold me to it but hopefully by next meeting maybe maybe when when the COA they'll be yes we have one we actually have one yeah like yeah that would be nice by the way we do send letters specifically to Alex has done this before to the property owners who are designated because we don't know that maybe some of these properties I know of at least one of them has changed property owners multiple times since we designated it and the question is do they actually remember that or are they told that it's a designated property so we send letters saying your property is designated and if you're gonna make some sort of fiscal change to the structure you know you need to to the exterior you need to come into the commission to just do a friendly reminder.

And the question is, do they actually remember that or are they told that it's a designated property?

So we send letters saying your property is designated, and uh if you're gonna make some sort of fiscal change to the structure, you know, you need to to the exterior, you need to come in to the commission to just do a friendly reminder.

Um I would also hope that the permitting department here, which has been fairly stable in terms of staff, that they would say, Oh, you're a locally designated structure or landmark, and you need to go in before we can issue you a permit, you need to go to the preservation commission to get a COA.

So this is a question.

Does it does that something like that pop up on an MLS when a property is listed?

Does it it it depends?

Is that homeowners' responsibility to share that to realtor, or is that just kind of an automatic thing that might yeah, it depends.

Um the MyBoard, which is the Metropolitan Indianapolis, has adapted their forms to reflect that.

Okay, where a uh seller would need to um, you know, in in that form where you're saying, yeah, our roof is good, bad or don't know, or whatever.

That's sales disclosure form.

There is a box on there now that you check if it is historic or locally.

As a matter of fact, we're about to Indiana Landmarks is about to acquire a uh former YMCA building in Newcastle, and I was just doing the the wasn't a sales disclosure form, but uh uh form on among the documents I had to prep as part of the purchase agreement, and um it's there specifically on there.

Is the building designated as historic?

Is it in a historic district?

I mean, this in the this stuff is on the general uh realtor accepted realtor uh documentation.

Um I'm assuming that people should reveal that if they know that it is, but so I like I don't know if it's probably not regular, but with our property, because landmarks had it, right?

It's got I mean there's a covenants that's attached to the property that's which is the same as mine, so you could never not see that with our property, but right yeah.

So I'm just curious, like if like we've both attained our properties.

So title searches are gonna reveal that.

So like when you go to sell the property to somebody else, they're gonna do a title search, it's gonna reveal the covenant.

They're gonna go, what are these covenants?

And then usually they either contact us or that's the owner, whatever, to supply a copy of the covenants, and then they can look them over and say, Okay, yeah, I'm fine, buying the property and with the covenants and move on.

Um, but that's how that happens.

Local designation, though, through a city government is different.

And we did look into, didn't we, about whether or not that ha those the designation process needs to be recorded at the county courthouse.

And the way the language reads in the ordinance, I I think we went over this.

It says something like might or shall.

No, it doesn't say shall, because shall would mean we'd have to do it.

Yeah, it's it's something very amorphous about whether it's like might.

Yeah, like whether or not it's supposed to be done or not.

So May, yeah.

Yeah, I think maybe it is May or something.

So we've always been kind of like, okay, so the early ones uh ordinances that we passed with the commission and the council, did those get recorded by city legal?

We don't know for sure.

So um so the they are designated, that's unquestioned.

It's just that it's not required that we had to go record that at the at the county courthouse.

So just thought about this in this conversation.

Don't know if it matters, but I've I we are going about where I have submitted and worked with the city and the GIS to have the address of our property.

Oh, yeah because it's not so that's it's not smoky row anymore, it's now Grisham Drive, right?

13725 Grisham Drive.

Yeah, because that's where it accesses.

So I've got I don't know if that needs to be updated anywhere.

But in we might want to update that too in the covenants, just so that somebody in the future knows the property versus Do you get mail there yet, or is this just not yet?

Yeah.

Not yet, but that's one of the for permitting and for all these things that one of Duke's requirements for coming and setting the meter and stuff if you have to have a visible address from a from a right-of-way.

So gonna have to put a mailbox in, so I figured I'd better know what the address is by that time.

Yeah.

All right.

That's all I have.

Yep.

I think we're good.

645.

Let's call for an adjournment.

Um that's it.

Sorry.

Okay.

Move to adjourn.

Yeah, move to adjourn.

Second.

Okay.

All in favor?

Aye.

All right.

See you next month.

You know, off the record, just we're finished.

We don't have to put the