The Monday, March 16th City Council meeting.

First thing on the agenda is uh approval of the agenda.

Move for approval.

Next up is uh invocation.

Pastor Benjamin Keith Snyder, Carmel Friends Church.

Thank you, Mr.

Snyder.

No relation.

Just a good last name.

Um tonight I thought I'd share with you a name that's uh going around in politics and some words shared by him.

You may have heard the term speak truth to power.

That was by a Quaker, a gentleman named Bayard Rustin.

I wanted to share another quote by him that says this.

If we desire a society of peace, then we cannot achieve such a society through violence.

If we desire a society without discrimination, then we must not discriminate against anyone in the process of building the society.

If we desire a society that is democratic, then demo then democracy must become a means as well as an end.

And I'm mindful that today uh there are many people in this room who are in places of power, and it's not just the people sitting on this side of the building, but the people sitting over here as well.

Continue to speak your truth to one another through democratic means, and we will achieve democratic ends.

And I'm thankful for that.

Let's uh assume an attitude of prayer.

God of justice and mercy, we are thankful for this community where you've placed us.

We're thankful for this opportunity to speak to one another in democratic ways.

We seek justice and mercy.

We seek the good of our community, and we pray today that you would keep us mindful to be neighborly to one another, to treat each other the way we would want to be treated.

We ask that we would listen well, not just wait for our turn to speak, to seek to understand more than to be understood.

For this and all things, we will be thankful and give you praise.

Amen.

Have a wonderful meeting.

Uh Pledge of Allegiance.

Councilman, if you could lead us, please.

One nation under God, indivisible liberty and justice for all.

Recognition of city employees and outstanding citizens.

Once again, there's too many to have any here tonight.

Um recognition of persons who wish to address the council.

We do have a number of blue cards this evening.

Oh boy.

Now in the past, I've been pretty lenient, but we do have quite a few, and we are going to hold to the three-minute limit.

No uh outward signs of a motion, please.

Um this is a time to hear, not a time to uh debate.

So I look forward to hearing everybody's comments.

First up is Nicholas Miller.

On deck.

Uh, we'll oh, I'm sorry.

So you'll go to the podium, make sure the microphones on.

You'll get a yellow light when you have a minute left.

And when it's red, please finish your sentence.

Okay, uh, my name's Nicholas Miller.

And I just wanted to um celebrate the fact that this is about the 10-year anniversary of when this group and the mayor uh had promised us that there would be no commercial development on uh west of Spring Mill Road, uh, with the exception of the village West Clay, so about 10-year anniversary.

Um so I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that, and also uh remind you that there's never been a PUD that the BCA hasn't approved a variance for.

Thank you.

Next up put these in category by topic.

Uh Jill Meisenheimer.

Um Good evening.

My name is Jill Meisheimer.

Um I'm asking that you approve the U.S.

31 sub area plan.

I'm not opposed to reasonable and responsible development or redevelopment, but I do care about what's being proposed and approved next to me because soon it could happen to you and other residents.

As many of you know, I've been writing CCRC, Carmel Citizens for Responsible Zoning emails since 2011 when the Bridges PUD was proposed to share information about proposed developments that might impact neighbors.

I lived in East Carmel for 28 years and have now lived on the west side of Carmel for 20 years across from the Bridges PUD.

I've attended most of the meetings regarding this plan since the public hearing of Plan Commission in July of 25.

I really appreciate the land use committee previous chair, Matt Snyder, and current chair Anita Joshi, that they have included input from the public.

Public participation in this process has been refreshing, energizing, and I believe necessary to craft a strategic plan that will benefit redevelopment in Carmel and protect nearby neighbors.

I thank you all for talking with listening to and considering the concerns of neighbors who might be impacted by the US 31 sub area plan.

I thank City Councillors and DOCS for including on pages four and five of the plan the names of the neighborhoods that are adjacent to the sub area plan.

I thank you for providing protections for neighbors who live adjacent to the plan, even though they may not know how close they may be to a redevelopment proposal or if it might affect them.

And if you're wondering, I think all the residents in this room would probably appreciate what is being included in the transition area, which is 300 feet of existing single family property, that there should be buildings no taller than three stories, that there should be resident sensitive setbacks that include meaningful landscaping, greenery trees, and pathways to create a natural transition between the site and the neighborhood streets or residential areas, and measures should be taken to mitigate noise, light spells, signage, and other sensory pollutants that negatively impact neighboring residential areas.

I urge that council committees to continue to include public input before voting on a development or redevelopment proposal, especially when there are suggestions for change.

And I think that our city, our residents, developers, and businesses will benefit from this plan.

Thank you.

Mr.

Dewart.

Good evening.

My name is Mark Dewart.

I'm on the board of the Spring Lake Estates Homeowners Association, and I just want to make a few comments about the U.S.

31 sub area plan.

When I travel and I'm talking with people who don't live in Indiana, and they find out that I'm from Carmel, Indiana, I can usually tell that they've already heard of our city.

And when some go on to ask me how we became the well-known city that we are, the adjectives I find myself sharing are intentional, well thought out, community-minded, and things are done well in an uncommonly nice way.

And I think it's by paying attention to important details.

And this is what the comprehensive plan that was adopted in 2022 reminds us that we are supposed to be doing when we are engaged in a sub-area planning process.

Objective 1.3.2 says conduct planning in greater detail in critical sub-areas and corridors.

These small area plans are critical where development pressure meet local needs.

And I think those details aren't just unnecessary complexity.

They're important details that the comprehensive plan tells us that we should expect to find in a sub area plan.

And the important details, the series of the land use committee meetings added, are also a sign of a city trying to create an intentional, well thought-out and community-minded plan.

And this is going to be a plan then that has a good chance of resulting in future projects that are done well in an uncommonly nice way.

I hope you will vote to approve the sub-area plan and include those important details.

Thank you.

Mr.

Navarro.

Good evening.

I'm Gus Navara, and I'm a longtime resident of Carmel.

And most recently the last seven years in Jackson's grant.

And as a result of living in Jackson's Grant, I've been to a few of these meetings in the last seven years for different reasons for different development projects that have occurred and that we've been invested in and very concerned with.

And I have to say up front, I really appreciate this city council version.

I've never been in the last seven years working with such a council that listens and works to find a solution for all parties involved.

And I think that's what's been done here.

So thank you for that.

As I said, I live in Jackson's Grant.

It's over 400 home sites.

And it's along Spring Mill Road, which is one lane north and one lane south.

And so it's very busy a lot of times during the day, especially, of course, during the peak hours and uh morning and evening and the intersection at 116th and Spring Mill has been notorious for fender benders and some traffic accidents and overcrowding at times.

So the traffic there has become somewhat concerning.

So my request to you is as you complete the US 31 corridor.

Please manage the growth effectively.

Please manage it so that the residents in the area are protected along Spring Mill Road as much as possible.

And please include a significant, well-defined transition area as you go east toward Illinois, toward Pennsylvania, etc.

Mark mentioned that intentional and well thought out are very key descriptions of our area.

And that's what I'm asking for as you develop the IUPUD and the US 31 Corridor.

Initially, our group and our neighborhood was really against extending that line as far west to Spring Mill Road.

We didn't really see the need when you're talking about US 31 Corridor and the 31 Highway to go that far west, and there were different reasons why that was given.

But what I appreciate is the solution that you've come about with with the verbiage to work within those boundary lines.

And as long as there's protections in place, we support that.

And I again thank you for your support to come up with a solution that's workable for the majority of residents that live in the area.

Thank you very much.

I need to hit the button.

And Ms.

Box.

Hello, counselors.

I'm the Fox resident of West Carmel, and I carefully followed the review of the proposed US 31 plan.

I thank each of you for your time and efforts that have contributed to improving this plan.

And I want to express special thanks to land use committee chairpersons, counselors and Joshi.

They invited residents who attended the committee meetings to speak and actually participate in the sub-area discussions.

We felt included, truly listened to, and that our thoughts and suggestions and concerns were valued.

This was new in the committee process, and it is so appreciated.

Also, a special thanks to the Department of Community Services for accepting many of our suggestions for incorporating them into the plan and for making the revisions to the document.

And thank you to all who were involved with inclusion of the plan of an actually effective transition area around this large area.

Special thanks to Councillor Locke for enabling us to envision this transition area on a map.

We needed help.

Our needs were met for including strong protections for established residential homes and neighborhoods and existing PUDs from the intense Meridian Corridor redevelopment.

I hope that attention to strong transitions to protect established residential neighbors will become the norm in future developments.

And our concerns were addressed to prevent further encroachment on Spring Mill Road and West Carmel by intense development creep from the West.

And last but not least, many thanks to the Carmel residents who have persevered and participated throughout this review process to improve and clarify this plan.

I think this is a good plan that everyone worked hard for.

It does not take anything away from or make anything worse for the Central Meridian Corridor development and redevelopment.

It provides for both needed redevelopment in the Central Meridian Corridor and effective protection of the adjacent neighbors from potential negative impacts of intense development in the Meridian Corridor.

This is what balanced responsible development looks like.

This is what Carmel residents have been seeking.

I hope you will approve this plan.

And thanks again.

Good evening, everyone.

What I'd like to address tonight is kind of on a general topic of what appears to be a continuing lack of notice and transparency regarding infrastructure projects that impact folks in various neighborhoods.

And the example I'd like to use is the city's current plan or proposal to put 10 parking spaces along Autumn Drive.

Now I found out about that project informally, and I prepared an email that I sent to all the members of the city council outlining various objections and issues with the placement of those parking places.

It turns out the project was addressed by the finance committee on Tuesday, March 11th.

However, the day before, no agenda had been posted for that meeting.

That was as of about 11 o'clock the day before, and I did not attend the meeting.

However, in reviewing the video of the meeting, the email and the objections were discussed in depth, which I really appreciate.

All of the objections were dismissed.

The one thing that kind of troubled me though was during the meeting, one of the counselors who was present noted that I wasn't there even though I had notice, which turned out not to be accurate.

And I don't think anyone should be penalized after sending in a written objection for not coming in to defend it in person.

I do note that the business owner in favor of the parking places did have notice and did appear, and was the only non-committee person who was present.

You know, basically that haphazard notice, I don't think is right or proper.

And I don't see any reason why the city can't simply post a simple sign at the location of a proposed infrastructure project, that maybe even a QR code that just says here's what we're going to do, here's what the project is, here's a date, time, and place where it's going to be discussed.

Similar to the signs that we see at proposed zoning changes.

Folks shouldn't have to sit there devoting time and resources going into rabbit holes to find out what the city plans to do with projects that impact their lives.

It only breeds a degree of distrust, and for a city that really touts itself as being world-class, the current lack of notice and transparency is pretty disappointing to say the least.

We're the owner of the building at 630 Third Avenue Southwest.

Um we appreciate uh Councilmember Taylor bringing before you all uh the potential of adding more parking spaces along Autumn Drive.

Uh our business owns and operates the building there along with Lowman ICAR and Hippoldistry.

Um we have been the de facto accidental parking of Chris Kindle Mart and uh sometimes the summer market as well.

Um we would appreciate additional parking there.

I think it would just benefit all of our businesses, appreciate the opportunity to speak before you all and to consider the matter uh so small, comparatively speaking to the US 31 project.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Deb Carpenter.

I live at Tingley Lincoln Court and have been living here for 27 years.

I prepared a lot of comments that uh I was running through pretty quickly, but I wanted to comment uh about how many other people had said uh things that really touched me about what my concerns are, and that is that the planning in the city has been very community-minded, and that's part of the comprehensive plan, and it's been very intentional.

Um, and the and the intention also is to protect residential neighborhoods.

Um I'm I'm here to speak about the expansion of the restoracy project that uh is uh proposal for, as you know, um I think it's 14 or 24, 22 additional beds.

But basically um that is starting to move into the neighborhood of um uh uh Concord Village and at the ends of our courts where we live.

I'm concerned about one of the things that was mentioned in the um the Carmel uh core, the urban core uh downtown development, about how essential it is to have uh responsible uh land use that also preserves residential neighborhoods.

And we know that already one home will be purchased and um will be you know given up for uh that project, but also uh it speaks specifically to the uh the thoroughfare of Richland Avenue going from um 131st Street to um to City Center, which is a project that those of us who have lived there for so long have heard about for probably 10 years in a variety of different ways and a variety of different sources from the city that never came to any kind of fruition or um uh any uh resolution at all.

Um repeated requests to find out what that was gonna mean for our neighborhood.

Um that just were not able to be answered except what we don't there's we don't have money for it yet, which is um understandable certainly, but um it wasn't surprising to see and and see that in the plan.

So definitively, and it was also um something that made us all think that if this expansion does go through, that's gonna take additional homes in our neighborhood to build out the Richland thoroughfare because it's not gonna be able to just take one or two homes, which was the original thought, and mine being one of those two homes, but it's gonna take more.

And this is a community that is incredibly dedicated to each other.

It's enriched my life so much being able to live in this community of people.

And these are people that have affordable housing in this city, and one of the intentions of the restorers stated, was that people could age in place, that people could stay in their communities that they got older.

But adding these beds does very little to maintain the neighborhood.

So I'd like you to consider that, please.

Good evening, my name is Allie Messler, and my husband and I have lived at nine Lincoln Court for nearly three decades.

I'm here tonight to once again highlight our neighborhood, our neighborhood's flooding problem.

It is not new.

It is a decades-long infrastructure failure that continues to worsen.

For more than 20 years, we have documented repeating repeated flooding, contacted city officials, hosted site visits, provided photographs showing impacts on our homes and our yards.

The correspondence with the city officials over many years reflects the same pattern.

Acknowledgement of the problem, promises of future fixes, and continued flooding.

The results have been devastating.

We have experienced tens of thousands of dollars in water-related damage.

And just last year, my husband and I discovered 141,000 in structural water damage to our home, which insurance denied because of the flooding had been going on for too many years.

This issue predates the latest proposal before you tonight.

I previously raised these concerns at the Plan Commission meeting and also communicated them directly to my counsel, my city councilor Teresa Ayers, and I thank her for her support.

Every time new development is approved, we are promised that underground detention or retention will solve the drainage issue, but the reality on the ground is very different.

Fewer trees, more concrete, and more asphalt always produce the same result, more runoff and more flooding.

Our neighborhood has already seen the effects of increased impervious surface and aging drainage infrastructure.

Residents on Lincoln and Concord Courts continue to experience standing water, overwhelmed drains, and property damage.

There is also a larger planning concern.

As my neighbor Deb mentioned, the parcel proposed for expansion sits on the land long associated with the extension of Richland Avenue in the city's comprehensive planning discussion.

Approving development there today may prevent the city from acquiring the land in the future in a way that could save two or even three existing family homes when the road is ultimately built.

Once the land is developed, that option disappears.

Mine is not an opposition to senior care.

Carmel absolutely needs more senior care capacity, but this proposal adds only 24 beds while potentially complicating infrastructure planning, worsening worsening stormwater problems, and increasing long-term costs for taxpayers and residents.

So my request tonight is simple and I believe reasonable.

Please pause the extension until the city fully addresses the flooding issues in Newark Village and clarifies the future of Richland Hour, Richland Avenue.

Before I close, I want to you to picture something very simple.

Imagine watching the same flooding happen in your backyard year after year, documenting it, reporting it, and being told repeatedly that the solution is coming next year.

For decades, we have been told help is coming next year.

Meanwhile, the flooding gets worse.

Fix the flooding first, then plan the growth.

That is all my neighborhood is asking.

I thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you, Mrs.

Messler.

Next up, this does conclude the public or the blue card session.

Next up is Council and mayoral comments and observations.

Councilman.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Uh, I would just like to remind everybody that on Thursday, March 26th, we have what we call the what everyone calls the missing middle expert coming to the City of Carmel to go over what we can do in our UDO to possibly make some meaningful changes or no meaningful changes.

But the important piece of this is that there is going to be a after this gentleman gives his presentation about what our city is and how it looks and how it's developed and what we can do to maybe find some of these missing middle solutions.

We have an hour, we're going to adjourn our meeting.

He's going to make his presentation at 10, adjourn the meeting at 11 o'clock, and from 11 to 12, there will be an open session of questions and answers open to the public.

So if you have any compulsion or um ideas that you think would like, you know, you'd like to for us to consider, we'd really like for you to attend this meeting on Thursday, March 26th, 10 a.m.

Excuse me, 9 a.m.

in City Hall.

The presentation from uh the gentleman, Dan Perolik will be at 10 o'clock.

So I hope to see all of you here.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

I just wanted to uh make a few comments on the uh US 31 plan.

I want to thank uh the committee for their hard work.

I originally uh came out uh and spoke out and requests the removal of the residential homes uh next to Clay Terrace from the plan completely and the I uh the Clearing North PUD from the plan completely.

Um after further conversation with staff and the committee, they did a tremendous amount of work to put in the protections for which my request was also helping to achieve, which was to protect those residential neighborhoods and to uh not allow promotion of upzoning on the IU health uh campus parcel that this plan may allow.

However, with the additional buffers and knowing that uh this plan does not allow uh does not incentivize the PUD to amend it to create more density or more height, um, and also from finding out more information about the current zoning of the homes next to uh Clay Terrace and with the additional language of uh specific specifically protecting of those areas.

I am in support of the residential homes remaining in the plan with the protections near Clay Terrace and uh keeping the IU uh parcel in the US 31 sub-area plan based on the protections that the committee added.

So I appreciate the uh work that everybody's put into it.

I think also you'll see um there's additions to the plan that actually shows the focused areas for which we need have redeveloped, which I think was very important, and to counselor Austin's point was the whole reason for this plan is to address declining assessed values and vacancies in a very important corridor of our of our community.

So I appreciate the committee's work and uh wanted to make uh a statement on that.

Thank you.

I was gonna say this for the other gender.

If you're bringing up US 31 now, I'll I'm gonna say something real quick about this, not just generally on the plan.

Um I think a lot of really good work has been put into this plan, and I want to take a minute to really thank um everyone on the committee and everyone in the public for all the feedback that's putting put in.

Um counselor Joshi, Counselor Minar, you know, previously on land use, Counselor Ayers and Counselor Locke, some great feedback there, and I had some really good conversations um with counselor Locke about kind of a way we can kind of move this forward that makes everyone happy.

Um I think some statements may have been misconstrued.

I never wanted to remove the protections.

What I was concerned about was removing the redevelopment aspect of the plan that seemed to be getting lost and not as highlighted as it once was in the past, so I just wanted to see that back.

Um but I do want to say one other thing too.

I bring my daughter to these meetings.

She's seven years old, and after we got home from that meeting, she said, Daddy, why were those people so angry at you?

And it just broke my heart.

And I'm glad we have a format where people can have constant conversation, but I we've got a I know people care.

I know people are emotional about these things.

But if I don't feel comfortable bringing my daughter to a meeting anymore, like that is gonna become an issue.

I've had people where why do I bring her?

Gus, are you saying that?

I'm wondering why it's a public meeting.

Because I am a do because I'm a divorced man who has my daughter 50% of the time, and those are the days I have my daughter.

Is that an issue for you, sir?

Please, no.

Matt.

All right, well let's just keep this on the dais, please.

Okay.

Please because I think this is to this is to his point.

Yes about time and place.

Yes, and we've also had instances where people have followed people to the car after meetings to continue to have conversations with my daughter there.

This has got to stop.

So I bring this up because I was heartbroken at her respect response.

And I'm sorry if you're offended that I bring my daughter to a meeting.

But we should be able to conduct ourselves in a way that anyone could be present.

And that's all I want to say on that.

So I um I'm just gonna use this opportunity to say, Adam, thank you for bringing her because I enjoy having her there at these meetings.

I think actually there is no harm in bringing a child to a meeting.

I think we are um a community that is thoughtful and also passionate, and sometimes can get caught up in the desire to do the right thing.

Ultimately, I think what has happened with this process is that we can show that we can do the right thing.

We can get to a place where we're comfortable having these conversations, but we can do so respectfully.

And I do think that there are ways to ensure that that happens.

And I do want to thank everyone who did come out to speak on this meeting.

I believe that the words were used, you know, that transitions are intentional and well thought out, that the way that we worked through this process was to do that, was to bring the care and the compassion into the room.

And I will certainly do my level best to ensure that care and compassion is always at the root of how all of us function together as a council and how we try to all lead together.

But I know that is sometimes you know, uh, we're all human and we all have passions and we all have moments, but I want to thank everyone for coming, and I think that um uh I appreciate counselor um Taylor's remarks on this as well, and I think that the um work that continues to make this plan both a developer uh development plan as well as a protective plan for neighborhoods can function.

I believe that we can walk into gum, as the saying goes, and I think we will show that as a community that we can do it effectively.

Sorry, um, I just want to say to all of you, everybody in the room, everybody that's been a part of this, you specifically, Councilor Housen.

Um this is a city led by love.

Um the idea that we can disagree, that we can have big feelings is important, but the minute our kids watch us and they see what we do and we interact with the public and each other, I think it gets directly to the heart of what the pastor tonight was talking about.

We have to defend the things that matter to us, our community, our loved ones, um, and be that example.

So I say that like I'm so grateful to be up here, to be a part of these conversations, to get to have this.

But it it's it can be a lot.

Um there are a lot of things happening.

And I'm so proud of all of you.

Um Jeff included, he's not here.

Flight issues based on other stuff outside of our specific control.

But um, and I'm I'm proud of the community for coming and showing up.

These are not easy conversations we have.

These are our homes, these are the places we've raised our children, our loved ones, our dogs, um, all the things that matter to us.

Um, don't for a minute stop bringing feedback.

Um, but don't also for a minute forget that we're setting a stage for what it means to be a carmelite, a human.

That there are seven-year-olds that are brilliant that sit in the back of the room that are quiet.

I have a five and a three-year-old who would blow up every meeting so loudly.

Um I would love to bring them, but they they cannot come.

Um the fact that we get to set that example of working together to do that matters almost as much as the work we ultimately put out on paper, um, even if it's a plan that ends up being something that people in the future will ignore or work around or will need to change.

Um, the work we do today together will echo um for each other and for those seven-year-olds that lay on the floor and watch their computer, even if they don't want to be there.

So thank you.

Um that being said, we do have a few more tweaks to the plan based on feedback.

Um, none of them will impact any of the work or discussions we've had so far.

Um they will actually just make it stronger and better and will help um to the feedback that Councillor Ozman shared and the Counselor Taylor shared with me after more discussions with DOCS uh to signal places that we do need to see things improve to make the quality of life for all of us a little better.

So thank you.

Uh don't stop showing up, um, even if there's bad notice, uh, we can work on that.

Um but thank you, thank you all for making this worthwhile.

Um a couple things.

Uh the mayor, who by the way is never obligated to be here, um, but does nearly always come ahead of unavoidable conflict.

Uh Council Warrell, um, absolutely uh wanted to be here.

His flight got canceled and canceled and then canceled again.

Um he's stranded.

Uh and I anybody you guys have known Jeff a long time.

I I can't count how many meetings he's missed on a few fingers.

So we're sorry that he's not here.

And I want to stress the importance of this on many levels.

Now I'm probably pretty clear where my opinions are.

However, given House Bill, the recent House bill, it has done a lot of things.

It's triggered a lot of actions that need to happen over the course of this year.

And Councillor Minar is leading that initiative.

And I think she's the right person to do it.

She knows more about this stuff.

She reads more about this stuff than anybody.

So it's not just, hey, come hear this guy speak.

It's really setting the tone for how we're gonna navigate more mandates from the state while still being able to protect the residents, which is ultimately our and our goal.

So as this process moves forward, um we're really leaning on Shannon, her committee, this whole process along with city's legal staff to keep us in compliance, make sure we satisfy the state's requirements, um, and do so in a thoughtful, meaningful way that accomplishes something but without any adverse impact to the residents of Carmel.

Um which brings me to the US 31 subplan.

I absolutely love everybody at this day.

This for some reason the first three months of this year has been a lot.

It's been a lot a lot for everybody, um really a lot more than it the first couple years of our our term.

I think it's because there was so much unfinished business from last year, it transferred over, there was a lot of change, um, and and frankly, House Bill 1001 combined with Senate bill from the prior year has created this just awful storm where digesting it all has been has been difficult, and we're we're we're all coming at it from different points of view on how to best serve the people, and that sometimes creates conflict amongst us.

And what I love about these guys, uh my colleagues, is that it's very brief flashes in the pans.

And what I you know, councillor Joshi and Councillor Austin and Councillor Locke and heirs and land use really worked hard on this document.

Um when the document started with me, I I had a complete misconception of what it actually was.

Um that takes some vetting, it takes education, and a lot of the meetings are education, and then we got to a spot where we were close, and there were still a difference of ideas, but it was quite clear that the end goal was the same, and I'm really proud of the two very intelligent gentlemen to my right and left um who both saw the same light at the end of this tunnel but with different ways to get there, and and they they really hashed it out in a very productive way, and I think that's what the community should expect from all of us on every issue, and and I I hope I believe truly believe that's what we provide is we're not all the experts on everything, but we do hash things out, we work towards the end goal, and we have those uncomfortable conversations with each other, even when we know we're gonna upset the other one.

We know it's not personal, it's just on that issue.

So I'm I am so proud to serve with everyone up here, and and because of the personalities up here, uh I think we do a great service for the community, and no one up here claims to have all the answers, and that's why the public engagement piece is so important because every time somebody speaks up there, we gain a little bit of knowledge, we get a tidbit that we didn't know.

Um something that helps form our view as it pertains to the greatest 55 square miles in the world.

Um recently the mayor put out a statement um about some rhetoric online, and she's not here to speak about it.

I'm gonna make a comment.

I'm so proud of the people of Carmel.

Over just the last few months, I have seen demonstrations, I've I've seen walkouts, protests, running the gambit from all various different things.

Some I believe in, some I don't.

What impresses me is that the people of Carmel do it in a very thoughtful way.

They do it in a way that is respectful and civil.

And it needs to be the same online as well.

And I'm not gonna mention what the comments were.

If you didn't read them, you didn't I'm not gonna give them any more credit than they need.

But being a keyboard commander, it doesn't do anybody any service at all.

Any one of us will take a phone call, even if it's something you know we hate, you know we disagree with.

I'll just be your sounding board.

Just yell at me.

If that makes you feel better and keeps you from doing something that you might regret in the future, speak to us.

But posting very hateful things online about a demographic doesn't fly in the city of Carmel.

And I thought the mayor put out a pretty good statement about that.

Some of my colleagues followed up.

Um we'll clear the air on that.

We'll call that just a blip in the system, because this community never ceases to amaze me with its approach to civics.

To the point of the sub-area plan once more, because of some of the edits, the there won't be a vote on that tonight.

We want to make sure it's perfect.

Uh one of the uh comments I might have been counselor Austin was you know, the while the language has been refined and and agreed upon.

Um wanna make sure the map is reflective of that language and not complicated since 99% of people are gonna look at the map and not read the words.

Uh want to make sure that that's done in an appropriate way that reflects the great changes that Dr.

Joshi and Councillor Locke and and Taylor really came together and and and wrote.

Um so that will come back at the next meeting and and we'll vote on it then.

I'm sure DOCS will present it in its entirety.

Um so when we get to that, obviously anybody can can discuss it, but I didn't want to set the press for those here if you're waiting on a vote.

Um the vote's not happening tonight, although this is the first time we've had this many people show up in support of an ordinance.

Um with that said, uh we'll move on to consent agenda approval of minutes from March 2nd.

Move for approval.

Second excuse me.

Claims, payroll, 4,524, 823.38 cents.

General claims, 2,272,092 eighty-seven cents.

Retirement 136,972.

Wire transfers two million fifteen thousand three hundred sixty-nine dollars eighty-one cents.

Move for approval.

Second.

Action on mayoral vetoes.

There are none.

Uh committee reports.

Uh Dr.

Joshi.

Well, I think we've all heard about US 31 coming back from land use, so I'm not going to discuss that any further.

Um we also had two other um agenda items from the last land use meeting there are coming forward tonight.

The first was um uh the Illinois Town Homes PUD, um, which comes back with a positive recommendation, and the restoracy PUD, which also comes back with a positive recommendation, and I know we will be discussing both of those later this evening.

Um our next meeting is on Wednesday, um this Wednesday at uh Carmel Library at 5.30.

Um it will begin at 5.30, it will end at 6.30.

The purpose of that meeting is to hear about the home place sub-area plan.

So none of this is going to um to dissuade us from continuing to do good work together as a community, and we just want an opportunity to hear about the plan and then listen to feedback.

No decisions will be made that evening, no other comments.

We're just going to want to hear feedback from um our uh docs department and also from uh citizens who'd like to weigh in.

Uh Dr.

Joshi.

Um so I I saw the notice on the agenda there were some other items there.

We will we probably not get to those.

I only asked because if so, I wanted to invite people for those topics.

So I I do not think at this meeting that we will get there.

I'm so sorry, but we will get there.

No, no, we don't.

I'd rather, yes, totally on the same page.

So Taylor.

Thank you, President Stein.

Can I make one comment down?

Just for what if I say you are you're good.

Just to correct the record, the restore CPUD received a negative recommendation to one.

Not positive.

From land use, if I remember correctly.

Restore CPU D received a negative recommendation, not positive.

From Plan Commission.

But not from land use.

Not received positive from land use.

Yes, it was a two to one positive recommendation as my recollection.

Jessica, do you have that?

Yes, and then I need it.

I was sorry, then uh then.

I sincerely apologize.

My recollection was a little different, but um apparently I wasn't there.

No, you were we were all doing uh good job that evening, don't worry.

His name's Sergei.

You can find him on the law department website.

Counselor Taylor.

Thank you, President Snyder.

On uh Wednesday uh March 11th, we met to discuss one item, uh ordinance D 2811-26.

It um is not an infrastructure project.

There's been some information that's been getting confused with the autumn drive uh autumn trail.

Um it's one change in the ordinance on line 29, uh changing no persons shall park a vehicle vehicle at any time in the following locations from on both sides of Autumn Drive to on the south side of Autumn Drive.

So there will be uh the intention is to just remove the signs there on the north side of Autumn Drive that say no parking at all, and add uh a sign that says parking is allowed with the required buffers from both entrances of the road.

Um that uh was passed with a positive recommendation to come back to the council.

However, I had been in discussion with a couple of uh residents over there, and one asked me in an email in the afternoon uh whether or not it was gonna be on the agenda uh that evening.

I did not see that email, did not respond.

Engineering and us had been talking regularly.

I'd offered my cell phone numbers for them to speak with me.

Um are these properly getting our finance committee meetings?

The meeting is the meeting was noticed on the 6th.

But um is it are we not including those on the we are including them on the website?

I uploaded it on the fourth.

Um I uploaded it initially as a notice, it's a notice slash agenda.

Then I thought better of it a few days later and I moved it to the agenda slot, but it should have still been there, the exact same document for anyone to see.

Okay.

Um well, seeing all this, when we get to the ordinance, I'm going to make a motion to ask since it's already been out of committee and put back to the count full council.

I'm going to make a motion and request that it be sent back to finance committee to allow those uh couple of residences that miss that meeting to come and uh speak.

Um so uh that's what I'm uh that's what I uh we'll do once we get to that item on the agenda.

But again, we're just move removing signs on the north side of Autumn Drive saying that say no parking.

There is already street parking on that road.

It's just uh further down, it's for residents only, and we're um looking to remove those signs and allow no parking on the south side, but there'll be about 10 spots that would be allowed on the north side of Autumn Drive for the request of the administration and engineering.

Um so we'll bring hopefully if you guys agree, we'll vote with me.

We'll bring this back to committee.

We will hear uh we have our next finance committee meeting on Tuesday, April 14th, and that's at 5 30.

Is that correct, Jessica?

At 5 30 here in the council chambers.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor Taylor.

Hey, Jessica.

Um is there a do we have like a list?

A sign up list where so people just get email notice no public notice emails.

Is that a thing?

It is a thing.

Um anyone who would like to be on my master distribution list can reach out to the clerk's office and I will add their preferred email.

Additionally, with our new website, we have a feature where you can subscribe to get an email notice when something new is uploaded for specific groups.

So if perhaps you're interested in plan commission but not BZA, what have you?

You can choose which you'd like to get an email notice when something new is uploaded.

So general comment, maybe on one of one of our future meetings.

I know that the website is a monumental effort re redoing it, uh, but maybe when it's in the close to finish stage, we can do an education to the public on here's how to stay connected, but not get a whole bunch of stuff you don't want.

That might be a good in the spirit of transparency to make sure to make sure everybody knows how to access as much information as they want without being inundated with spam.

How specifically do they I'll put that in my next newsletter?

How specifically can they sign up for the emails at the clerk's office?

They can they see in the email request or how would they do that?

They can email me specifically.

Okay.

Um or you can go to the clerk's website, the clerk portion of the website and find our telephone line, and that'll get routed to me, and I can speak to that person.

I did actually send out um specific instructions on how to sign up for these subscriptions in an email list that went to the people who are already on the email list.

So I can maybe find a way to make that public on our clerk's page, and that could help people figure out how to do it.

That'd be helpful.

And one more question.

Are we moving?

I had heard some talk about moving away from laser fish into something else.

No, darn.

Um the uh city codes.

Is that changing at all?

Is that I'd heard about maybe the search for that might become easier.

Is that a thing?

We will be moving from uh our current host, our current website host, to Civic Plus.

Civic Plus is the platform that our new website is on.

Um it's going to be quite user-friendly, I believe.

So that we expect that transition to happen mid-year, June July.

So maybe June July, if we could just get a general clerk's update, since you guys are the underrecognized department, uh, other body of government.

Um to showcase what you do and some of the great changes you all have made over the last couple years and to make it easier for the public to navigate about everything in the city.

Sounds like a great idea.

Thank you.

That's awesome.

No, probably not.

I mean, if you want me to.

Okay.

Old business.

Uh 20th reading of D 2772-25 remains in committee.

Excuse me.

Uh 10th reading, ordinance D 279525 remains in committee.

Third reading, ordinance D 2811-26.

Uh Councillor Taylor.

President Snyder, I would re make a motion to move this back to finance committee.

Second.

Is this required?

Okay.

Thank you.

So that's a great question.

This did require because I didn't think so.

Uh, and then I was advised by Sergei.

So take that for what it's worth.

Um write about that part.

I'm just kidding.

We love Sergey.

But because there was action on it in committee, there had to be action on it in council.

If nothing is done at committee, it comes back and the original recommendation holds.

If anything is edited in committee, you will it would be voted to be reopened in a new recommendation vote would be had in committee.

So uh extra words.

We want to make sure we're doing it right.

Um resolution C C 111725-03.

Uh this is the sub-area plan.

I'll I'll spare you the rhetoric.

Uh does anybody have any further comment?

This will be represented in its entirety at the next meeting by DOCS.

Uh resolution CC 12012504.

Uh resolution of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana approving the amendment to the Carmel Comprehensive Plan to incorporate a new sub-area plan for the home place area.

Sponsors Councillor Minar remains in committee.

Dr.

Joshi, do you want to read that synopsis and just reiterate you'll be what you're doing at next land use, please?

Sure.

The resolution amends the Carmel comprehensive plan to incorporate a new sub-area plan for the home place area and makes associated revisions to the menu of street topologies, thoroughfare plan map, and the mobility and pedestrian plan map.

Thank you.

And that will be discussed this coming Wednesday at land use 530 at the library.

Third reading of ordinance Z 703-26, an ordinance of the common council of the City of Carmel establishing the Illinois Street Town Homes Planned Unit Development.

Sponsor Council Austin, this has returned from land use with a positive recommendation.

Adam Hawson, you sponsor, would you read the synopsis, please?

Um, sure.

Well, um, this ordinance establishes the Illinois Street Townhomes Plan Unit Development District, the Illinois Street Townhomes PUD, the ordinance we rezone the real estate from the MC Meridian Corridor to a plan unit development district, allowing the development of a residential neighborhood laid out in the style and character as depicted in the concept plan attached as exhibit B, which includes um for sale townhomes.

Good evening, members of the council.

For the record, Zach Burton with Poulty Homes, um 11 uh 595 North Meridian.

Um thanks again for the land use committee.

Uh we worked on architecture and then you know talked through various other items.

What you see here is site plan 27 town homes for sale located along a um single drive, uh various six-unit uh five and four-unit building configurations.

A significant upgrade from our um initial proposal, we have added multiple layers of brick uh as well as one stone elevation going from two to almost one and a half uh structurally.

We cannot put brick above the uh bump out, three stories, and uh so on.

We have also adjusted the stoops to line up, which creates more green space between the units.

The side facade and rear facade have also been upgraded.

Um you can see we have moved from one story of brick on the side elevations uh to two, and we've also added a significant amount of windows.

Uh we're up to one story on the rear elevation, and the neat thing about the rear elevation is it is required to match the front in the way of color and material.

So if you see board and batten on the front facade, you will also see it on the rear.

And the masonry colors match as well.

Uh with that, we'd um politely ask for a favorable um vote uh from the council.

Thank you.

Put your time on for construction.

If it were to get approved, when would you want to break ground?

Sure.

Um if we were to get approved tonight, we would file for primary plat, go through those processes.

Ideally break ground November 1st.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Burton, for your presentation.

I'm really happy to see that you had changed the masonry from what it was originally after it came out of plan commission.

So I told you you'd get beaten up by that committee, and you certainly did.

Um so I just want to say thank you for that.

But one of the things I did want to bring up to council, I just wanted to make sure that everyone's aware and the public's aware.

Um, one of the things that I did ask for specifically, which you guys agreed to, so thank you very much.

There are rental restrictions that are the same, rental restrictions that are associated with 146th Street in town.

Um for me, that's important because homeownership is important, and so I want to just thank you for that.

I appreciate it.

I also appreciate all the hard work.

Um and the railings were also added.

I believe that was an additional ad that you you made from for a safety standpoint um going up the stairs to add railings on both sides for um people who might need a little bit of help getting up those stairs.

So another safety modification that we appreciated.

Um thank you again.

So again, thank you.

I'll be voting for this tonight.

Um I actually voted no at Plan Commission.

I voted yes at land use committee.

And this is where kind of the process can get confusing when you have Plan Commission or committees that are advising projects as they go along the steps.

A negative recommendation, which at the I knew there was five other votes, so I think it was the sixth vote, it wouldn't have made a difference.

But what the goal there was okay, can we get maybe some improvements in the project?

Which I'm gonna give big credit to Paul T because when we said hey, we'd like to see some improved masonry, they reacted and definitely delivered on that with some really nice architecture there.

Um so you know, sometimes these processes they start off, you know, okay, we're we're not there yet.

There's a negative recommendation, but then when you work together, you can get a really nice project across the finish line that I think is going to benefit a lot of people.

So thank you.

Mr.

President, I just want to reiterate what uh councillor Austin said, the the process through the planning commission.

Planning commission was tough, you know, requested a lot.

Um in uh polltee is kind of worked through uh took that feedback and what the land use, more feedback, more um request, and uh over the course of time this project's really come a long way through the planning commission and uh uh land use and and the the feedback I've gotten from constituents has all been positive, so I appreciate the work that everybody's put in to get the project to where it is today.

Thanks.

If there's no further discussion, I would like to move to approve this uh PUD.

Second someone, yeah, thank you.

Item G, third reading of ordinance Z 704-26 and ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel amending the greenhouse cottages of Carmel Planned Unit Development District, which was Z594-14.

Sponsors Councillor Austin and Minar.

Uh this has returned from land use, and then this is also tied to item H, so we'll probably discuss both at the same time.

Um do you want to read the synopsis again?

Sure.

I don't know if we do we serge.

Do we need to read the whole thing into the record?

I just honestly uh ordinance establishes an amendment to the greenhouse cottages of Carmel Plan Unit Development Ordinance number Z 59414, which amendment shall be referred to as Z 704 26 Greenhouse Cottages of Carmel Amendment Ordinance.

This Z 704 26 Carmel Greenhouse Cottages PUD amendment uh amend certain provisions of the original Greenhouse Cottages Carmel PUD ordinance, ordinance Z 59414, the original Crown RTP ordinance.

That is very legalese, but uh thank you.

But you read it very well.

Good evening, counselors.

My name is Rachel Connor.

I'm an attorney with Denton's.

Uh our address, which I still haven't memorized myself, is 10 West Market Street, suite 2700 in Indianapolis.

Uh I'm here representing the petitioner, MBR Carmel Health and the Restoracy of Carmel on behalf of my co-counsel Kyle Reziteritz, uh, who has a prior scheduled conflict.

So you've seen Kyle before, uh, I'll try and do as well as he might.

So uh we're also joined tonight by Brian Lindsay, who is the director of operations and one of the co-owners of the restoracy.

We are pleased to be back before the full council tonight uh after the petition received a favorable recommendation.

My guy Sergey.

Maybe afterwards you'll see lawyers have fisticuffs at the parking lot from the land use and special studies committee, uh, as well as the the plan commission.

Um excuse me, I've got a couple of exhibits to show just as a reminder to everyone that this is the way the project appears.

Maybe like this looks a little bit better.

There we go.

This preliminary site plan reflects input that we have taken through the process.

And reflects what will ultimately, if approved, be uh the final plan subject to the the project is not done, subject to development plan approval and architecture design, exterior lighting and landscaping approval.

One thing I certainly want to show coming out of committee are the changes to the landscape plan.

This is the conceptual buffer landscape plan.

It has been affixed as exhibit E to the restore a CPUD ordinance and referenced several places throughout the document.

You can see here that there are the red line is the proposed fencing.

There are a couple of examples of potential fencing options.

And we also show on here a substantial number of new trees that will be installed.

There are green trees circled, those are trees that are existing and will stay.

Some of the existing trees will come out because they've been damaged over time through utility maintenance, uh, which is just caused enough damage that those trees are no longer healthy.

So some trees will come out, uh, but in excess of 200 new trees will go in.

I spoke on the fact that the proposed fencing will be composite wood or a similar material in brown or a natural color, and the fencing is shown in red.

That fencing will block the back patio areas of the proposed two new cottages as well as the new drive and parking area.

At the request of the city's engineering staff, we revised uh the petitioner's commitments to also reference an obligation to dedicate a 50-foot half right of way along City Center Drive and an additional right of way shown southeast of the the new rain garden, the triangular polygon shape towards the bottom.

Uh the engineering department requested those changes, and and we have no objection.

Um so those have been made and updated to you, and I believe printed copies of our commitments, both clean and in red line were provided to all of you.

So we believe the the written and oral record and the ordinance documents as revised uh satisfy the standards upon which the council must reply.

We ask that you do approve these two petitions, and I'm happy to answer any questions as I can before you take action.

I can I can go I'll point out that the council has no standard to apply other than the protection of the residents of Carmel.

Understood.

Um it was said to me at the very first my very first interaction that there was no knowledge of this proposed road.

And that among other things has driven a lot of conversation around this project.

But the first record of this road being discussed was in 1988.

Then it was mentioned in corridor studies in the mid-90s, identifying the need for additional grid connections.

Then it was for formally incorporated in 2008 into both the comprehensive and transportation plan.

Then it was reconfirmed again in 2022 into the comprehensive plan.

Carmel Elementary aligned their building and constructed road to account for this road, as did the library.

Now we had we do try not to scare our residents.

Certainly they hear about they see these plans and they wonder, but when documents are just put out in the ether showing their houses being torn down, it is a cause for alarm.

Now I understand so long as this road is in the comprehensive plan, transportation plan, I can only assume it's going to be built.

And the way it's drawn, it shows five houses coming out to build this road.

It wouldn't have to be that way, could just be two houses, one of which spoke tonight, and the city could work very well with them, as we've done many times.

Almost every roundabout project we take down property or house.

Now the question has been asked why do I care about this road?

Well, my opinion on the road doesn't so much matter, it's the city's opinion.

And the city, many many years ago, put this into a plan, and the city has made a commitment to increasing its grid structure wherever it can.

The reason why it's important here is because currently you've got an elementary school that dead ends, which is a public safety concern.

We forced the school to align a certain way to accommodate this road, the library as well.

Now there's also 150 residents homes in the Carmelview neighborhood that are putting up with traffic that has no way to get out.

Uh that traffic has increased with the new elementary school because of dad's club and after school activities and everything else, it's just a busy place.

So I do support this road.

Now, others may not, and that's and that's completely fine, but it's still in our plan.

And so long as it's in our plan, I want to treat it as if it's being built tomorrow.

Without restoracy, that road can miss three houses.

Now, I do think the restoracy expansion could have still worked.

I think it could have been designed in a way that added the same number of beds or more, frankly, and achieved both their goal and our goal of protecting the residents.

They've got proposed rain gardens for their stormwater.

Now we heard tonight from people that are being absolutely devastated by stormwater.

Now, this wasn't caused by phase one of restoracy or cottage homes.

It wasn't caused by the elementary school, in my opinion.

They all would have been required to submit drainage reports that engineering would have signed off on.

There was no building, so existing water had somewhere to go.

If you look at historical maps, there was a creek that ran into where creek might be a strong word.

There was a conveyance of water that would run where the cottages are now.

So while the independently satisfied the needs of engineering, what happens so many times is it's the last man standing that reaps the devastation, or in this case, unfortunately, the first people.

Now there are huge stormwater issues that cannot be attributed to the development around its age, its neglect of years and years and years of a system that is just beyond capacity and needs repair.

One of the potential solutions that has been brought up to me by engineering was this this new road could be in tandem with the stormwater project.

It could cover up a new trunk line, it could store water underneath it.

Um but the rain garden in my career, I've never met an engineer that has said with a straight face that a rain rain garden is a long-term solution to stormwater.

The reason they're in plans is because the engineers can pass the red face test by saying with appropriate maintenance, they are a long-term solution.

I have never seen anyone do the appropriate maintenance.

I've never seen a VAC truck anywhere at any existing rain garden.

So I do think the concerns of the homeowners who already have horrible issues are very valid.

And perhaps they won't see any ill effects of this development right away.

But as that rain garden fills up with sediment, as they do, uh the water goes somewhere.

They are in the lowest spot.

It's for these reasons.

That with the fact that a I don't believe development should override long-term planning.

Um I still have concerns about this.

And I don't want there to be this disportionate trade-off between 24 beds for a for-profit expansion versus the potential displacement of homeowners, which we would not even be talking about had the developer and or their law firm not on their own went and talked to the homeowners and told them the road was going through their house.

So with that, I still have concerns about this development.

I think it's noble.

I of course want them to make money, and you know they're trying to hit a deadline that makes them more money.

But I do want to protect the integrity of our planning process.

You could add more rooms.

It just requires getting creative and spending a little more money on architecture.

So it's is there a desire to make this happen or not?

And it appears that there was not the desire to think more creatively with their designers.

So that's where I stand on it.

Um I think that the neighborhood, uh Lexington neighborhood has been neglected for so long, and we are working hard.

I know Councillor Ayers has been speaking with some of the homeowners.

There's going to be a town hall coming up here in the near future.

Um because every time we say we're going to do something, to your the speaker's point, it's next year, and you know, my hope is we could fix it all at once, and that just may not be it because these homes are continuing to flood on a daily basis.

I think until we solve their problems, we probably shouldn't do anything that's going to exacerbate the issue.

Thank you.

Uh President Snyder.

Um, I agree with all of the things that you're saying, and um my concern is and always will be the health and well-being of my of these current residents, and they have been of all residents, but um they have been passed along for for years, and uh I would like to see this issue fixed before anything else moves on further.

Mr.

President.

Um, you know, I've had a I voted yes at Plant Commission and I voted yes at land use.

I'm still a little bit on the fence today because there are some two issues that I see on this.

Um, I desp I see the desperate need for more facilities like these in Carmel.

Um it is very important that we have places for people to age in place in our community.

Um they can be us one day or parents, and having that is very important, and the demand is there.

Um they have been a good partner with their existing property.

Um, but at the same time, uh I do feel for the neighbors here.

That's part of the reason why, while I'm not sold on the road, uh I and to be fair to Councillor Snyder, I did uh think it was important to have the right-of-way in there because I don't believe in closing the door to the road.

It's in the comprehensive plan, and it can't be something that could possibly work.

My fears at the moment are one, taking homes, you know, we've never had a moment in the history of Carmel where we've taken homes uh unless someone wanted to sell their property.

We've never used imminent domain to forcibly take a home from someone, and I don't think we should start doing that.

Of course, this is also a road that we don't have funding for at the moment, we don't have a plan for at the moment.

Um, so I wasn't eager to have this debate on the road, and I don't know if people want to have a road through their backyard, even if their home is preserved.

Um, but the petitioner did bring it up and highlighted it quite often in the plans, kind of forced our hand to have this conversation about the road in order to accommodate its possibility.

Um, you know, I was concerned about does that limit our uh ability to add more stormwater um resources here.

I think they talked about moving or reducing the size of the uh rain garden as a result.

Uh in you if I'm wrong, you know, correct me here, because to accommodate the right of way and the possible possibility of a roundabout there one day.

Um so I see both sides, but I'm also gonna give uh restora C credit because through the plan commission and land use process, every time we asked them to do something, they did kind of comply with it.

They did reorder their buildings, they did reduce some of this, they did kind of change some of those things.

So short of stopping their project, I don't know what more we can ask for them to do to improve the project.

So I'm gonna listen to the rest of the debate tonight.

But that's that's kind of my thoughts I'm gonna share.

Thank you so much for your presentation.

Couple questions.

I think I heard at the land use committee, and uh you can correct me if I'm wrong.

The the beds, those are important.

I I totally agree with that.

We always we need more beds.

But I want to ask you specifically, and I just want to refresh my memory.

Do you have a waiting list at your current facilities?

You want to talk about Carmel preference?

No, I want to ask you do you have a waiting list?

There is yes, there is a waiting list at the current facilities.

There isn't demand for more beds.

Correct.

Is there a preference for Carmel?

There is not now, but there is going to be going forward at land use committee, Kyle Reziteritz testified, my co-counsel, that we did not have that in place because it has not been in place.

Uh that is going to be changed going forward, such that if all things are even and someone does not have an immediate health need for a bed, such that someone is in danger in their home and needs skilled nursing immediately.

If all things are even between two applicants, an existing carmel resident will get preference over a non-carmel resident.

But with the waiting list you have right now, you could fill those beds immediately.

Correct.

I don't how many people do you have?

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know.

That's why I'm asking.

Would you like me to call him up here?

Sure, sure.

Speaking of the microphone.

Yeah, that'd be great.

I've just I'm just curious.

Hello, my name is Brian Lindsay.

Um, so to answer your question about our waiting list, um, every month we turn away about 80 residents or applicants to come stay with us.

So the the size of the waiting list is over a year over a thousand.

We don't have a thousand people that are on a waiting list.

We're turning close to a thousand people away every year.

Does that answer your question?

Are there other questions?

No, that answers my question.

Thank you very much.

Oh good, sorry.

Yeah, um a little more pragmatically, like as we look at kind of process tonight, trying to figure out what to do.

Is there is there an openness to have more discussion about how to shape this?

And obviously, there is a water issue that we've seen.

I just pulled up all the historical maps up here.

And if you look at the timeline based on it, the email that I was forwarded this afternoon in the bill, the only thing that changed in that time frame was the addition of the property as it stands today, which then triggered in just immediate theory.

I don't have data other than what I have just looked at on the GIS system to see that there was a shift.

So the idea of making sure we address that issue before we move forward, and I this might be a Sergey question, and I will not disparage you because you are awesome.

Um the um timing process here, I understand that there's a financial faster the better.

Um there are people that need services that are not getting them because they're not beds for them, but the idea of having time to make sure that we address or assess that water issue in the plan that we were putting forward to ensure we all get to a point that makes sense, and including then that master idea of ensuring that the thoroughfare is fully vetted and taken care of.

Is there time or appetite to continue those conversations?

Or is it something that on all fronts we want to decide and move tonight?

And I asked the council and I asked the petitioner because it seems to me to be an open conversation to ensure that we take into account those longer term things, and maybe tonight's not the right night to move in either way.

For our purposes, we do not see tonight as the finish line to development.

The project still has to receive a development plan approval and an architecture design, exterior lighting, and landscaping approval.

Good evening, and apologize again.

I completely messed up two different petitions, uh, two different items, and my brain malfunction.

So again, apologies on my on my end.

Um this is a rezone.

So this is a as a petition indicated, this is a kind of a first step in uh development process.

So one thing that you have to keep in mind is that you have the legislative body has 90 days from Plan Commission certification to act if we so choose.

If you don't, then the rezone will uh be deemed approved as certified by Plan Commission.

That expires, I believe April 15th or April 20th.

April 20th.

22nd.

22nd.

So you actually do have one more meeting you can act on this petition if you choose, because your next meeting is April 20th, or there's no meeting in the beginning of April because of spring spring break.

So you do have one more opportunity to tweak this petition to address whatever you need to address.

But just keep that date in mind.

Again, if you don't act, it will be passed as certified by plan commission.

But petition is also correct that this is not the last step in the discussion of certain development issues, but uh addressed in development plan and ADLS.

ADLS will address landscaping, which can be relevant to a discussion of some of the water issues, and also development plan addresses those issues as well from and there's an engineering component there as well.

So if I will be back to address some of the more in-depth issues on the process uh on the project on a later date, and yeah, so my my thought process there is like this the rezone is the thing that triggers the process to move down the path.

Um but it is our last kind of attempt to ensure that we understand what's gonna happen before that's taken out of our hands and moves to a different part of the process until it comes back.

So my question, I guess, and request is as we think about this, should we use that?

Knowing we've got a meeting on April 20th, which is two that gives us two days, Grace.

But is there enough time between then and now to have deeper conversations to understand before we make that judgment call?

And do we want to do that?

And then again, back to petitioner.

Um is that a conversation that seems worthwhile to have in that time frame, or does it make more sense for us to vote tonight and see how the cards fall?

Um and I say that I based on the outstanding kind of questions and the things that are there.

I personally feel like I need more information for a positive vote, um, which I don't know where that would put it.

We we could see if we vote.

Um, but ultimately it puts us in a position to figure out if there's a desire to have a deeper conversation about those two specific issues before that time runs out.

Mr.

President.

Oh, don't don't disagree.

Obviously, I'm kind of on the fence on this too.

Thinking out loud here though, because I don't think we're gonna have an answer on the road between now, like in a month from now, whether that is what's happening there.

Um storm water.

Uh my question, you know, I guess what I'm wondering is, and I'm not disagreeing with you here.

Are is something going to change between now and a month from now?

And if not, I think we should vote.

But if there is something that we can that will change from then and now, then yes, let's wait.

I don't think the road doesn't change until mayor planning and we vote to get rid of it on the comprehensive plan and or build it.

And go ahead.

I had a question for Sergei Legal.

Um, if um to counselor Locke's point, if there was, let's say uh there was um let's say this didn't pass ordinance, the rezone didn't pass this evening.

Um, how long must they wait to reapply?

And uh maybe that would give the city time to look at um stormwater improvements in the area to help the residents.

So for a failed rezone petition, the petitioner would have to wait one year to reapply under our UDO.

And those can't be waived.

Um this is a UDO requirement.

I can look into the waiver issue, but as of right now, it is a it is in that ordinance.

I would note just for your consideration, counselors, that you also have the power, as uh the president pointed out, you you don't have any standards that you're held by, but you certainly have the power to take legislative action.

You have the power to amend an ordinance that you have passed.

In fact, our first request is an amendment to an existing ordinance.

You are certainly welcome to amend the second new ordinance any time you see fit, even during our development process, so long as you are clear that it's retroactive and impacts the ongoing development.

I would think Sergey, tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe yes, sometimes a change is grandfathered against or a development is grandfathered against a change, but they have the power to be retroactive specific to a PUD so long as they're clear about the retroactivity.

We would like to see progress going forward just because the need is there, and and we have put the work in and we would like to continue working with the city to achieve the goal of having people age in the community that they have worked and lived and paid taxes in for many years.

That is yes, we are a for-profit business, but we are a for-profit business serving a need in the community, a demonstrated need.

So we would like to see progress move forward and are happy to continue working with the city to achieve all of its goals.

So there's no financial incentive to getting this done quicker.

I'm sure that we save time and money.

I'm I'm not particularly cheap, to be quite honest.

So the uh the client saves money the less that I have to appear here.

I'm sure we're saving engineering costs, but ultimately the goal is to continue moving forward to see progress made.

Well, the the comment was made to counselor Ayers and I that if you don't break ground by X day, you don't make money.

And then it was followed up with if you don't do this, people die, which I find extremely offensive.

I'm not familiar with those comments, sir, so I apologize that you were offended by someone's commentary that's not within my knowledge, and I'm certainly not happy.

Here's what we can do.

I don't know when you're gonna discuss this if you want to make changes because your land use is already booked.

We've got until April 2nd.

Um does finance want to crack at it?

So we can object and call for the vote, see how it goes, and they can reintroduce once they uh if they have a better project, and and I'm completely open to explain the waiver if they come back with something substantially different, but um or we delay it and I don't know what changes.

So I'm gonna put voting tonight.

So I don't think anything's gonna change.

Is that a motion?

No.

Um I prefer not to motion.

Yeah.

Mr.

President.

Would you accept one more comment from the petitioner?

Some of the com I Brian Lindsay, um, with the restore I see.

Some of the questions were the timeline, um, what we stand to lose, if the timeline is not met.

Um there is a licensing process with the State Department of Health through Indiana that closes on June 30th.

And so we have a deadline to submit documents, uh, architecture designs and other things.

So if it doesn't go in by that, then another year goes by without those licenses.

Um the project that we that we provide, or the service that we provide for this community is highly specialized.

Um I've worked in senior care for 19 years.

Uh, most of you that have been to a nursing home have have seen what they typically are.

Um when we bought the greenhouse cottages um three years ago, it was a one-star facility.

It was on the front page of the Carmel Current.

Um it was not even close to full.

It was it was uh a bad representation for senior care in Carmel.

Um today it is a four-star facility, it's full, it'll be a five-star facility in April after the last eight review.

Um it is highly specialized.

Most nursing homes.

There are over 500 nursing homes in the state of Indiana.

There are four that are the small home concept.

We own three of them.

We are swimming upstream.

Um I am on a mission to change senior care because I know that the general population is not happy with senior care.

That's why I left the traditional nursing home model and started the restoracy.

The state mandates that these the size of the homes are what they are 12 beds, no more.

So the efficiency is lost.

Large nursing home chains will not touch this project because they know it is not a moneymaker in the percentages that they make.

So we are operating mission driven.

It is for profit, and we have found a way to be profitable to provide an elevated service to our community.

It's incredibly difficult.

Adding two homes to an already inefficient campus of 72 beds, which is under under the average size of a nursing home, makes our mission more replicable and ability to grow and to serve more hoosers.

So our petition is that we are allowed to continue this mission to serve more all the and any requests that's come to us as far as how we can change the landscape, the layout, anything we can do to be creative.

The size of the home is even dictated.

It can't be more than 8,000 square feet.

We can't do multi-level.

You can't the the state really constricts our creativity in trying to come up with different ways.

And so with this two-acre plot that we are hoping to purchase and develop, we are we will do anything that we can to fit it within that plot.

And we we certainly have empathy for the residents.

We don't want to cause more problems.

We are our intent is to solve community problems for the the aging demographic for this community.

But we are doing everything that we can to be uh utilitarian in our approach to the most good for the most people in this community.

And that's all I have.

I vote to not approve the PUB amendment.

Move.

What?

Sorry.

So it's been moved.

Second.

So move and second, and all those, or let's vote.

Sorry, is a yes meaning because Sergey, we make the motion in the affirmative, right?

This particular motion was made in a negative.

So this motion as it stands is that's okay.

So if I vote yes, that means I'm voting to not approve it.

Correct.

Okay.

Okay.

So yes means no, no means yes.

Wait, so again, is that you voted not to approve?

If you want the development, vote no.

If you do not want the vote development, vote yes.

That's all right, sorry.

Okay.

I would encourage the petitioner to meet with the land use chair and or myself.

We'll take a look at the UDO.

The there's a long history why there's a year-long moratorium on reapplying that probably needs to be looked at anyway.

Um maybe you can come back and hit your the deadline for next year.

We thank you for your consideration.

I get jobs.

In spirit of staying consistent, we're gonna do the vote, the question in the negative again.

So moved.

Oh, come, yeah, the one that's isn't this a negative.

Okay.

We have no new business.

We have no agenda add-ons.

Do we have other business?

Any announcements?

One more time, Shannon.

I'll wake up, sorry.

Again, Matt, uh, Councillor Snyder, I thank you for bringing up House Bill 1001.

How and how important this is this collaboration between our missing middle expert and um right now DOCS has had them looking at our UDO to identify places where we could possibly make some thoughtful, maybe positive initiatives for the city of Carmel.

And so I would really encourage everyone who's interested in housing in Carmel to come on March 26th, Thursday at 9 a.m.

Dan Parolick, our specialist, our expert will be giving a presentation about what he's found.

So I hope you can all be there.

We'll adjourn at 11.

And from 11 to 12, there is an open mic session.

I'm gonna call it where you can have your questions and concerns addressed.

So thank you.

Hope to see you there.

So real quick announcement.

His team has conducted our citywide assessment as part of the AARP age-friendly community process.

For uh that uh presentation will be presented at the commission meeting on April 2nd at 5 30 p.m.

in these chambers.

From that uh from that, our commission and the administration will be working on an action plan uh to do to uh address the uh issues found within the assessment based upon the AAR friend work uh framework to then become an AARP age-friendly community.

So excited to get that um rolling and accomplished this year.

Thank you.

Adjourn.