Good evening, everyone.

We will call to order the Monday, June 1st meeting of the Carmel City Council here at City Hall at six oh four PM.

First item on the agenda is the approval.

Second.

Thank you.

Invocation will be done this evening by Pastor and Pastor Nathan Weibrew.

St.

Mark's United Methodist Church.

Let us take a moment of reflection and prayer as we begin this evening's meeting.

God of us all we gather tonight with a shared commitment to the city of Carmel and all who call it home.

May we be guided by wisdom, integrity, and a spirit of collaboration in the decisions made in this chamber.

Let our decisions be marked by mutual respect and let our focus remain steadfast on promoting the safety, prosperity, and well-being of our entire community.

May God may we work together to build a future that honors our growth while preserving the vibrant spirit of our city.

We thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight.

Amen.

So I will tell you a little bit about them, and then if they don't mind coming up front, and the mayor will swear you in.

Nick comes to us from the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department.

He has over fifteen years of experience and studied criminal justice at IEPY while serving as a cadet officer.

Those are our two new officers tonight.

Okay, raise your hand.

Repeat after me.

I state your name.

Do you solemnly swear?

Do you solemnly swear?

That I will support the Constitution of the United States.

And the Constitution of the State of Indiana.

And the Constitution of the State of Indiana.

And then I will faithfully and impartially and impartially discharge my duties.

Discharge my duties.

As a police officer of the City of Carmel, Indiana.

As a police officer of the City of Carmel, Indiana.

According to the law.

According to the law.

And to the best of my ability.

And to the best of my ability.

So help me, God.

So help me God.

Welcome to Carmel.

They can get in the photo, too.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Chief.

Next on the agenda is twenty twenty-six National Academic World Quest Champions from Carmel High School.

And at this time, I believe Dr.

Anita Joshi has some words.

So it is really exciting this evening to welcome yet another group of champions from Carmel High School.

All this evening.

These four amazing students faced off against thirty-three other teams in two days and ten rounds of intense questions on global topics, including get this, nuclear policy, current affairs, global commodities, and even the FIFA World Cup.

So the wide mastery of their knowledge earned them the national title for Carmel.

And that also included two round trip tickets to Istanbul on Turkish Airways.

And I just want to say our family recently visited Turkey, and you are in for a treat.

Please welcome Grayson Miller.

Mayor Finkham to present you.

Congratulations.

We're gonna invite Ryan Sharp.

Next is Rafa Tajver.

Congratulations.

So I'm I'm I'm obviously not surprised of more champions from Carmel.

But how how was this part of an organization?

Was it independently?

You saw this competition and just decided to enter.

Can someone speak to that?

Thank you, counselors.

Recognizing four outstanding Carmel High School students who've demonstrated tenacity and perseverance to prepare and win the state and national academic world quest competitions, helps tell the story of the Indiana Council of World Affairs.

Among these, for twenty-two years, academic WorldQuest has sent a team of four students and their teacher to Washington, DC for the national competition.

This year, Carmel, as an eight-time winner in the state competition, won the national academic competition as well as the logo design, which will be used this year across the country.

Indian University has been a state sponsor for six years, and this year has become a national sponsor.

For this, gratitude is extended to Dr.

John Chochari, interim provost, executive vice chancellor, Indiana University, Bloomington, and Carissa Garlitz, Director of Strategic Enrollment, and Student Services, Hamilton Luger School of Global and International Studies, Indiana University, Bloomington.

Dr.

Ferris.

As principal of Carmel High School, thank you for your inspired, hardworking social studies teachers who foster an educational environment that encourages in school and extracurricular success.

Got this article.

The U.S.

News and World Reports ranking Carmel as the best place to live in the U.S.

is further reinforced and brings favorable national visibility to Carmel as well as the state of Indiana.

On behalf of the Council and World Affairs, Carmel of City Council, Mayor Finkham, and Clegg at Carmel Clay Schools, we appreciate your support and encouragement.

Thank you.

Now I'd like to introduce the teacher, Dominic Kamara, who traveled to Washington, DC with the students, and she'll say share this experience of the students competing with students from all over the country.

Before you go, would you introduce yourself?

Oh, yes, I'm I've been a volunteer.

Well, actually, I was in junior council on World Affairs in Dayton.

So this has been a interest throughout my career, and then I've been I'm on the board of the Indiana Council on World Affairs and this year was elected president and happy to do so.

Thank you.

Good evening, board members.

Um my name is Dominique Kamara.

I am a social studies teacher at Carmel High School, and I just wanted to take a brief moment to celebrate this amazing group of students.

They have truly, I think it's already quite clear they've worked very hard to bring another um accolade to the city of Carmel and put us not only on the state, you know, on the national stage, even on the world stage at this point.

Um I'm just gonna tell you a little bit more though.

Clearly, you know that they've they've learned a lot about everything from international policies, as you mentioned, nuclear policy, um, everything from Australian foreign affairs and even the complex politics that surround the coffee industry of all things, and 10 rounds of um questions, totaling over 100 questions.

But what you might not know about this group of students is how independently driven they are.

They are incredibly focused on their goals, and a lot of what they put into this title actually came from their own effort.

They they organized themselves independently, they they scheduled their meetings, they made sure that they had the knowledge base, they also made their own study set sessions, they developed their team strategy.

Um, and this was at the height of their high school career.

They're all seniors, uh, they just graduated, they're all going on to university next year.

So, you know, in the midst of all of their AP finals and ending their um high school, they were you know focused on this tournament, which is really incredible.

And then one last thing that I'll mention in true Carmel spirit is just to recognize their competitive nature.

Even while we were in Washington, D.C., they were able to develop a strategy to convince a lot of their competition that they were not, in fact, as um bright as what you would have thought.

They somehow convinced Hawaii's team that they didn't even know the alphabet.

A lot of lovely things about international politics.

So, you know, everybody's jaw was on the floor when they took that world title.

So, really great job, guys.

Um, I tried to convince them during our trip to do a nighttime tour of the national monuments, and they had to remind me, no, Mrs.

Kamara, we have finals coming up, we're not doing that.

We're gonna we will be studying, we will be focused.

So I hope that they will be able to finally take their much deserved break as they travel to Istanbul to just celebrate and relax and get a chance to breathe.

So, really congratulations, guys.

I'm very proud of you, and um truly you make our city proud.

So, thank you all.

Well, I'm so sorry to bring you back, but can you say your name one more time?

Yes, you got it.

It's Dominique, Dominique Kamara.

Well, Ms.

Mara.

The exceptional winnings of these students is incredible, but you are so important too.

And there is Dr.

Ferris, you know, the I wouldn't be where I am today without my social studies teacher that took me under his wing and helped me out.

Um, who the mayor presented an award to earlier in the year.

He was on our very first city council, and he was the department head of Carmel High School for 42 years.

Um the impact you have, not just on these four individuals, but everybody that goes through your classroom is so important and so understated, and I I thank you for what you do.

Thank you.

That means so much to me.

Recognition of persons to address the council, and we only have one.

Jack, welcome back.

It's been a while.

You know the drill.

Hi guys, I have a lot today.

Um, I'm Jack Feldman, I'm a Carmel resident, and I I think I have four things today.

So starting with 12C.

This is the um, these are the amendments for the the LPRs, the automated parking enforcement.

I'm certainly very excited to see automated enforcement coming to Carmel.

Um, I hope that certainly the automated enforcement can also extend to people stopped in crosswalks or people stopped in an active lane of travel, uh, such as happens in Carmel, um, because that seems to be a problem in our city, and I I don't know if the contractor, I don't know if we've selected one.

Um I don't know if their equipment can detect that, if it's just like parking spaces staying there for too long, but I would love to see that included.

Moving on.

14B.

This is um new fines for right-of-way violations.

Uh, we worked on this a lot in land use, and by we, I mean you guys.

Um it was very exciting to see this finally get included.

I know um legal sometimes their stuff isn't kept updated, but this is really very important, and I like to see, you know, more ticketing of people blocking our multi-use paths, more language for accessibility, including accessible routes for detours, um, more fines for pavement cuts.

That's very exciting.

Moving on to 14C, so this is for vehicle noise.

I'm certainly very excited about this.

Uh ticketing people who have, you know, uh are revving their engines.

Oh, I'm out of time.

Sorry.

Uh ticketing people who are revving their engines at intersections or or who have removed a muffler is certainly very important.

The you know, those are public nuisances in our city, and I'm certainly excited to see those uh being ticketed more.

Um my last thing, I think, is um this bike lane that we have out here on Rangeline.

You know, it's very lovely two-way bike lane.

Uh, we removed our planters on that bike lane, I think in March, maybe April.

Um, and they're still off despite the bike lane being open.

You know, there are children that ride out there, and I I guess I take somewhat of an issue with the fact that uh those planters were removed so soon before work was started.

You know, it seems like it would have been worth keeping them out there, even if you know some residents consider them an ISO.

I believe that they are a safety device, you know.

I think they cost like thousands of dollars each, and they're 450 pounds each.

If a car hits that and there's a biker, you know, that biker will be protected.

And I think it would have been worth keeping them out there.

I know a lot of them didn't sell, but you know, that's I guess something to fix next time, which there won't be a next time.

Thanks, guys.

Chad, thank you as always.

Okay.

Uh council and Merrill comments observations.

Mayor Finkham, Deputy Mayor.

Good evening, City Council.

My name is Sohomnarla.

I just completed fifth grade at West Clay Elementary School, and I will share tonight's deputy mayor report.

First, we have some amazing news to celebrate.

U.S.

News and World Report has named Carmel the number one best place to live in the United States for 2026 to 2027.

This is a huge honor and shows how strong and welcoming our community is.

The people who live and work here make Carmel special.

So congratulations to us all.

Carmel was also recognized by the League of American Bicyclists with the silver bicycle-friendly business designation.

This means our city is being honored for making biking safer and more enjoyable.

The Carmel Small Business Network is having their next meeting on June 16th.

The city offers to support your business.

Nicole Pence Becker will be the guest speaker at the next meeting.

She runs two successful small businesses and will share her story.

Finally, on behalf of the city of Carmel, we want to congratulate all Carmel students on completing another great school year.

You worked hard, learned new skills, and achieved many impressive goals.

Your efforts in and out of the classroom show how responsible, creative, and caring in you are in your schools and community to the class of 2026.

Your hard work has brought you to this important moment.

And we wish you the very best as you move on to your next chapter.

Your future is bright, and we're excited to see what you accomplish next.

Excellent job.

Thank you.

Councilor Ayers, I'm sure you have something to say.

We have another state champion.

We do the lacrosse team.

So congratulations to the boys lacrosse team.

One state.

So congratulations to them too.

Another great thing for our schools and our city.

They did.

They finished to a number one and took it all the way to through the championship beating Hamilton Southeastern.

Councilor Green.

Just a quick question and then a comment for either the mayor or the president.

Normally around this time of year, May, June, you know, we get uh some type of financial final report from the Chris Kendall market.

Um June 15th.

Oh, it's on the agenda for June 15th.

Thank you.

Um now related to that.

Um, some of you know I have coffee, you know, and breakfast once a week, you know, with a group of men, you know, about my age, probably a little bit older.

Uh pillars, both formally and informally of the community.

Um, and towards the end of April, one of them asked, um, what was the status of the Chris Kindlemartin investigation?

You know, and I had no idea.

I didn't know what to tell them.

Um, you know, I think the last time it was mentioned in the city council was in October.

Um, so I told him I'd look into it and I'd get back to them.

Um and I went back and I reviewed some of the old council meetings, May 7th, 2025, when we voted unanimously, you know, to investigate the Chris Kindle market.

Um it was 8-0, Council Taylor wasn't there.

Um, and uh, you know, listening to the um you know the recording, you know, watching the council meeting, which I encourage everybody to do.

Um, you know, afterwards, I had lots of questions, I had lots of issues, you know.

I didn't think we should be investigating, but I voted for the investigation.

You know, because you know, I I thought it was important along with the rest of my city counselors.

And even after that immediate vote, I was asked by the city councilor sitting right next to me.

She said she was surprised.

I voted for the investigation and wanted to know why.

And a couple days later I got a you know, phone call from a reporter we all know, asking, you know, she was curious why, because it sounded like I was against the investigation.

And I told them both, and I felt strongly that it was the testimony from my fellow counselors about how important public trust and and uh um you know just making sure everything's transparent uh was really important.

And regardless of I felt the investigation wasn't necessary.

In the end, there are people in the community who who are worried uh the public trust was being questioned, and I thought it was incredibly important to be transparent.

And I encourage everybody to watch that May 7th, 2025 City Council meeting.

About 60 days later, July 7, 2025.

You know, we voted overwhelmingly to hire the Denton Law firm, you know, to investigate uh both the executive branch and the legislative branch on July 7th, 2025.

And again, public trust test um uh you know, everything being completely transparent was really important to the council.

Um that was July 7th, 2025.

Um I met with two Denton attorneys on July 21st for over two hours.

Um went through everything with them as far as I knew.

Uh the month of August went by, September went by, and then October 20th, 2025, about 90 days after I met with you know the Denton attorneys for over two hours, um, hadn't heard anything.

Um, and that was the first and last time uh the Chris Kindlemark investigation ever came up in a council meeting, October 20th, 2025.

And I encourage everybody to listen to May 7th, listen to July 7th as to why we're investigating how important it was for the public trust and uh transparency.

And then October 20th, 25 was the first and last time it was ever even brought up during the city council meeting.

And when I brought that up, um, and really long meeting, and if anybody wants to watch that meeting, you can fast forward about two-thirds of the way through.

That was the budget um hearing.

And uh when we got to the city's operating budget during the city council's discussion of that.

Um there are questions about the city's legal budget and about the role of the city of uh city attorney uh to refresh everybody's recollection.

And uh I uh I brought up the Chris Kennemarket investigation and kind of what was going on with the legal fees, what was going on.

And uh again, the record speaks for itself, you know.

Um there's not to exceed in the contract with dense, and all the claims are public, so I should be checking the claims, you know.

Um so I took that to heart.

That was October 20th, 2025.

November went by, December went by, January, February, March, April, and then in April, um, towards the end of April, I was asked by you know, people who blew you know, bleed blue and gold, you know, who've lived here their whole lives, asked me what was going on, and I had no idea.

So I went back and I checked the claims for April, March, and February.

I couldn't find anything.

Um so in full transparency, I called the city clerk and the President Snyder to ask kind of what was going on, and um they were completely on it, you know, to their credit, they were um all over it.

Um they said a few months earlier the attorneys from Denton's sent an invoice blowing right through them not to exceed 125,000 dollars.

Um so then I asked, all right.

That's great, but what is going on, you know, if we're not paying attorneys.

Normally attorneys don't do a lot if they're not getting paid.

Um, and counselor Snyder to his credit, you know, was pushing them to get a final report, and I was told the final report is going to be coming soon.

Um so to those individuals, um, to anybody else in the in the public who has questions about the status of the Chris Kennemarket investigation, the report will be coming.

I know there I don't know if there's gonna be a slight delay.

I know the uh mayor's office received a very large public records request and just sent four or five thousand documents to be reviewed by the attorneys, which I think in part due diligence they'll review all four or five thousand documents you know before issuing a final report.

Um but I just wanted to assure everybody the Chris Kennelmark investigation report is coming, and you know, within the next month or so, and uh I'm looking forward to getting getting that behind us.

Thank you.

Thank you for bringing that up, all of this up.

Uh one thing I just want to clarify blew through the not to exceed that was rectified.

So they did not, we did not they have not spent any money more than what was agreed upon.

Um I don't not being an attorney, I don't know what to say or not to say, but um in the one of the meetings, we did um unanimously select somebody to manage this, and I think transparency to your point has been um the primary factor of all of this, and part of that has been not interfering.

Um I did get some pressure from fellow counselors towards the end of last year, beginning of this year, to like what is going on.

Um I waited as not to interfere.

Finally, I did ask the person that's been running point on this.

They've to my knowledge have had conversations.

I don't want to put this individual on the spot if they'd like to speak.

We all nominated one person to speak for us on this.

If you want to speak tonight, great, but don't feel like you have to, because part of this whole process was also not interfering with the process.

So but up to you.

Yeah.

Happy to give an update.

We have made a request back to the city based on all the information in the uh discussions that have happened.

Thank you, Tony, for sharing more information tonight about relationships and things that are occurring at the city.

Um, those are new things that are important to hear and get into the record.

Uh, but there are um there should be a report coming out in the near future.

I think they have all the information they need to start compiling and pulling together what that looks like.

And to echo the sentiment, this was something that the city undertook uh because of information that came through through the affiliate review committee, which was something that was spun up to get information about how things were handled in the transition.

So the premise of doing that right, the premise of bringing in a third party that is exceptionally skilled at doing things like this and taking it out of our potentially highly political hands, as these things tend to happen in this public space, uh, was what we did.

So the idea of ensuring that they have the room, the expertise, the knowledge, the access to information, the feedback from us all as counselors, uh, the feedback that has continued to come in, including conversations that I have had with I think each and every one of you, including Councillor Green, throughout that timeline that he shared uh to give updates as they came through, has been occurring.

So if you do have questions, please feel free to forward them if you have information.

Please continue to forward that as well.

Um, and we will get a response and an answer back from the third-party independent law firm that we hired to do this.

Um, when you negotiate a contract with attorneys and you put it out to exceed and you let them know what that means, they understand it, and they do continue to do the work specifically if they're following their ethical determinations and needs that they have to follow.

So the work is continuing, we should be close.

It all depends on that final responsive documents and where we are with that and what they have gleaned from the conversations and discussions they've had.

So, again, happy to give updates at any point in time, trying to keep it objective and out of the realm of the political landscape to the best of my ability.

Thank you, Councillor Locke, and thank you, Councillor Green, for bringing it up.

I I really are important questions.

They're lingering, and I think there's it's been a long time.

Um I do want to reiterate that former president Austin made the commitment not to speak to Dentons unless it was billing related, and I know he held that up.

I've spoken to Dentons one time this calendar year.

That was about the invoicing and asked for a general update.

They gave me very brief.

Um, so I've I've upheld, I know Council Allison I upheld our commitment to stay out of it, but to your point.

Um sounds like Councillor Locke's on it, and and hopefully we'll bring it to a conclusion, however, it needs to come without politicizing it.

So I I I understand where your group's coming from.

I think we've all heard it.

Um I think now we're so deep into it.

Um we would love it to be over, frankly.

Um, but we made a commitment and we also said counselor lock would run point.

Um thanks for bringing this up.

And um I wanted to bring this up because it was kind of related, but I want to make sure none of this is hopefully coming off as as negative this or that, but we've got an ordinance that's on its 23rd reading that's kind of um related to this, the uh the nonprofit organizations.

Um when the report comes up, could we decide whether we're gonna do something with this or not?

Um, at least I understand maybe the report will reflect it, but at least when we get the report, we could decide do we want to do something here?

And if so, let's do it.

If not, let's just remove it from the agenda.

You know, the mayor asked me about that, and I just wanted to break a record.

Let's get to 50.

No, but I think there was one that was more than that.

What was there's one last term that was like god it was like two years.

So don't challenge me.

I will get there.

Um, but to your point, I I do I do think that uh, yes, this this impetus for this ordinance that remains in committee indefinitely was did have to do, which is the makeup of some of our non-pro-profits, not just Chris Gundlmar, but um just making sure that institutions receiving public funds had some legislative oversight or um just oversight in general.

I believe was as I recall 23 readings ago.

Um, I'm not being critical.

I'm just I'm just saying gently, maybe that would be a good time.

You're not the only one bringing it up.

Yeah, frankly, I'm I'm tired of saying skipping over it, and same thing with B, and I think B under old business is something that we need to have a conversation about as well.

And uh whether or not maybe this does get brought up and talked about.

I I do feel strongly this is the people's building, but they're also practical and logistical considerations to be made.

Absolutely good.

Thank you, President Snyder.

I did want to mention the mayor's advisory commission on senior living had our meeting on May 27th.

We have commission uh commissioner here, uh, no meet paradise.

Thank you for attending.

Uh the commission uh received the results of the community assessment that's part of the AARP age-friendly uh community designation process.

Thank you to Dr.

to the mayor to for creating this commission and Dr.

Gustani and his professional research team at the IU School of Medicine.

Uh they conducted a thorough assessment that otherwise would have cost a lot of money to conduct.

Um the next steps is the committee, uh the commission will be uh working with uh the mayor and the mayor's team on developing the action plan.

We will then file our application with AAR finalize our application with ARARP and expect the designation of an age-friendly community.

That is all thank you, Councillor Taylor.

Councilmanow.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

I wanted to also update uh the the community that the mayor's advisory commission on housing met on May 29th, and we had the UDO scan performed by Opticos, which was part of the delivery service that they are providing for the city.

And it was very exciting.

I would encourage you to go and watch the video to learn a little bit more about it.

We have our final um piece of the puzzle that is going to be done on June 11th.

We will meet again at 9 a.m.

here in City Council Chambers, where uh they will present site selections, and these are all hypothetical.

Again, I will say if you see your address or an address you own with something on it, it's not happening.

It's just a placeholder, basically.

So I would encourage everybody to come or listen to the meeting, watch it live.

And um again, June 11th, 9 a.m.

here in city council chambers.

Next steps for us are to hopefully put some recommendations forward after digesting all the information and bringing it to City Council.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Manar.

Anyone else?

I've got you're about to.

Um, leading the way.

It was announced today that Westfield now has announced their advisory on military affairs.

So they can continue to be behind us, but it's a very great thing.

I'm glad we were way ahead of them.

But uh they did also, and I was hoping we could too, they're really blasting this um function that's coming up that Tony will be speaking at, and can since I don't have the details right in front of me.

Can you bring that up and maybe we can do something about it?

Uh it's an event on June 26th at the VFW.

Um, you know, where a number of individuals will be uh former military uh will be giving their stories um you know through kind of an educational light.

I think Mayor Willis will be one of them.

And I um I'm reading here that his PowerPoint presentation is quite impressive, so please don't let us down.

Uh Councillor Green, forgive me.

It's about veterans' mental health issues, primarily is this event?

Or is that just an element?

This is just um uh stories um through kind of an edge educational perspective, how technology's changed, um different yeah, different types of stories from veterans.

Uh nothing related to mental health uh is and that's Friday the 26th.

Yeah.

Because there is another event on the 27th.

This is what I was asking.

Veterans Mental Health event at three o'clock at the BFD.

Nah, this is two to four ones.

Two in the same week, all to honor our veterans.

So that's I just want to clarify we were talking about the same event if it was different.

So thank you for excellent.

Thank you, Mayor, for um creating the commission, and and I do hope that other communities follow suit because it's very important as as you recognize.

Anything else from the yes, sir.

I just wanted to make a quick statement.

Um there's a lot of stuff happening, right?

We live in a very complex world, and even the exchange you just saw a little is something from the past that's ongoing, it's part of the administration of government.

Um, it's really, really important.

Um, but I wanted to say um, just in the general spirit of June and where we are as people, um, that the nuclear community of Carmel is each and every single one of you, no matter what.

And you're seen and you're heard, and we're so proud, and we're so proud that you're here.

Um we are grateful to celebrate where you're from, your culture, uh, your lifestyle, everything.

Um, and I I say that because in times when life gets hard or things feel weird.

Know that there are people out there, even if they sit on a dais and talk into a microphone and get real consequential on the minutia of government.

Um, that we're here, we care, and we will always fight to ensure that love wins.

Thank you, Councillor Locke.

Um I'm gonna do this under comments, Jessica, because I want to clear this up before we get to it, but I I did receive an email just now from our CFO saying that notice had been posted, and I thought about an appropriation.

And I thought that you said earlier that that it was too late.

I just want to make sure we're clear.

And you're good with that.

Just want to make sure before we got there and in the agenda.

Okay, moving on.

Uh consent agenda, approval of minutes.

Uh May 18th, 2026 regular meeting.

Move for approval.

Thank you.

Claims, general claims in the amount of 5,529,826 and 84 cents, and purchase card 39,222 and 35 cents.

Retirement 136,972 and 44 cents.

Move for approval claims.

Second.

Merrill Vitoes, there are none.

Committee reports, Dr.

Joshi, land use and special settings.

Yes, so land use uh met last on Wednesday uh the 20th, and we discussed at length the ordinance that you're about to hear later in um this meeting, ordinance uh D 2826-26, um, looking at right-of-way disturbances permitting maintenance restoration requirements and penalties.

So we will discuss that later.

But that was passed back to council with a positive recommendation.

And sorry, our next meeting is on Wednesday um at 5 30 at the Carmel Library.

Can you restate the ordinance real quick?

Sorry.

I believe it has now been put up as ordinance D 2826-26.

And Sergei, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I believe that is the correct number of the ordinance.

Okay.

I just want to clarify this has been worked on for a very long time, but I believe it's new business tonight.

Just thank you.

Um which will be important when we get there.

Okay.

Before I go to finance, one thing I want to say is because it looks like some of this really heavy stuff sometimes gets decided up here.

There are hours and hours and hours and lots of complications thrown in the mix at the various committee meetings.

Umly my fault, I really complicated Chairman Taylor's committee in finance with a whole slew of stuff, and it's gonna get a little tricky tonight, but I have full faith that Council Taylor is gonna be able to underwind this and explain it very coherently.

Um so as we move through both his report and then through some of the ordinances, um bear with us, and if you if there are questions or something's not clear, please just raise your hand and Council Taylor can unwind it further because it there are some nuances here.

Counselor Taylor.

Thank you, President Snyder.

Finance committee meet uh met on May 20th and June 1st today at 4 30 p.m.

Item C, D, G, H, I, J.

I'm not saying the whole alphabet, I promise.

Uh, were returned from the finance committee uh unanimously with a positive recommendation to the full city council.

Item E and item F.

So first we will address um item F.

This is to uh the as stated on the agenda ordinance D-2824-26 says amends Article 4, Section 2-128 Carmel City Code to establish a non-reverting city assets and repair maintenance fund.

Uh there was a lot of discussion about creating a fund specifically for and managing insurance proceeds and creating a fund for long-term capital asset funding and maintenance.

Uh there's a lot of discussion related to this item at the council meeting this evening, also some recommendations from President Snyder on verbiage.

That uh that ordinance was amended to include that language, also presented by uh Zach Jackson, City of Carmel CFO, and that the uh committee also amended language and then also amended a change to the name of the fund to public infrastructure insurance recovery fund.

Item F did pass uh the finance committee with uh unanimously with a uh as amended with a positive recommendation uh to the uh city council.

Um item K is um a resolution five-18-26-05.

It's to actually transfer monies from the general fund related to the insurance claim on the 106th Street Bridge to the um newly named uh fund 90 uh 927, the public infrastructure insurance recovery fund.

We the item uh since the name of the fund was changed changed and to maintain full transparency, item E, ordinance D-2823-26, which is the appropriation ordinance, which requires a 14-day public notice.

Um that item is being held because we decided that and speaking with legal that when we um that though this met proper notice, the names being changed, and for full transparency and ensure the public's aware of what we're talking about, that appropriation ordinance will be re-noticed and was noticed today, so it'll be on our uh June, our next uh council meeting agenda.

Um the goal, the goal of the committee is to one once we finalize the uh the city finalizes its assessment and community uh ass uh capital asset maintenance and repairs that a capital asset maintenance repairs fund that will be established.

So as projected repairs are needed to be made each year, that fund will be funded and tracked.

Um this is a best practice that's been adopted from the way that we operated Carmel Clay Parks.

Many of us talked for uh for uh many years about uh that we have to be able to fund these long-term capital asset uh maintenance and repairs, uh, then to also address the issue to where staff can take advantage of using insurance funds because we will have to fund items that are that are damaged or repaired to where there would be an insurance claim many times well before we ever receive the insurance funding.

Um so uh that's the reason for the rename, and then there'll be another fund that comes that's being uh created that will come on your agenda at the next meeting that addresses the long-term capital asset uh repairs and maintenance.

The next meeting for the finance committee will be on June 19th at 530 p.m.

Or sorry, June 9th at 530 p.m.

Council Staley.

Can I confirm one one thing?

You said that the item E will be on the next agenda.

Uh Jessica, correct me if I'm wrong, we might have a problem with the lead time for publication.

Is that is that true?

This is an item that is actually um publicly noticed on gateway through the DLGF.

So 14 days if that's updated today, then we're good.

We could okay it's not it's not in the card.

I wanted to confirm that thank you.

Yep.

Yep, Zach sent an email while we were at the day as today.

Uh his staff member was able to notice it today.

Same question I had.

You just presented it more eloquently.

Uh thank you.

I know that's a lot.

There's a lot to digest here, but it it all spun out of a really good place.

Um idea and and uh councilor Taylor and I heard the same thing but went in different directions, and then finally realized like no, there this is wonderful.

Let's not try to mash two good ideas into something that isn't as effective.

So that's why there's a lot of moving pieces within this.

Thank you for the reports.

Um other reports.

Uh, the only thing uh on the document for this evening was CRC.

Um Mr.

Msteckski is having an emergency procedure.

So we wish him the best of luck.

So there'll be no CRC uh presentation this evening.

Old business as discussed, the 23rd and 13th.

A and B are still in committee.

C second reading of ordinance D 2820-26, ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana amending chapter 3, Article 2, Section 3-5-8, and Chapter 8, Article 5, Section 8 45 of the Carmel City Code sponsors Minard Taylor and Warell does return from the finance committee.

Councillor Taylor.

This returns there was a lot of discussion, and uh Sergeant Haysey is here to uh answer any questions as well.

Um we reviewed the ordinance, the reasons uh the new uh the new schedule.

Um I guess it'd be infraction schedule or cost, and this was passed unanimously with a positive recommendation returning from finance committee.

Thank you.

Uh we'd like to hear um from Mr.

Hastings, but Sergey, can you also explain?

Because we went round and round about violations, and then you briefed us on something I had never heard of about how violations went through something.

I just would like to understand the difference between the two.

Yeah.

So this, and I don't have a citation in front of me, I don't remember the top of my head from a from a state code.

So this particular type of violation is uh administered by OVB.

So um, what is that?

That is what you would yeah, it's a violation Bureau of Ithaca created.

So a city clerk is uh essentially a body that administers it, and as of right now, the city clerk does not have ability to designate administration of violations to any other party but the city clerk.

So that's what this ordinance does as well, so that we can um have administration by designees essentially.

In this case, it will be police department with um whatever software we decide to purchase.

I think there's there's a um a contract pending in front of BPW pending resolution here.

Um so that's what this ordinance essentially does.

I also uh Sergey, I forgot to mention that uh during our committee meeting there was a discussion around um handicap parking when we reviewed the handicap parking fines.

We felt that uh they were uh extremely low.

Um, and we there was a few items added that's in your packet uh highlighted in green um to change the sections in particular line line uh 67 section three item psych three here a vehicle that is unlawfully parked in a properly marked handicapped parking space in violation of city code H-50 of the city code shall be issued a ticket subject to a hundred and fifty dollar fine for the first violation and a fine subject to the general penalties provided for violations of provisions of Article 5 of this chapter for each subsequent violation in the calendar year.

So I I forgot to mention that this ordinance was returned from the finance committee with that one particular amendment.

So let's move to amend and then Mr.

Hastings can speak on behalf of the police department.

Somebody would entertain that motion.

I'll make a motion to amend as previously stated.

Motion is amended.

Sir Thanks for having me.

Uh my name is Sergeant Hasey with the Carmel Police Department.

I'm the sergeant over our traffic unit.

I've been the one that's been heading up this initiative for quite some time.

Uh we just asked for your vote on this tonight to continue moving things forward with our enforcement um objective.

We've listened to the community for a long time about some of the things that we've been lacking on as far as our abilities to enforce three-hour parking and other time parking spots, as well as like what was brought up earlier, um, have just more dedicated eyes to looking for those types of parking violations.

Um, someone who's just can dedicate their time to keeping things turning over in our downtown area around the high school is where we're gonna start this initiative.

Um, and then we're we're really excited to be able to use this uh this equipment and software to do that efficiently and effectively.

We've we've researched this for a long time, and we think that this is the best option for us moving forward.

Um, and I I welcome any questions you might have for me and appreciate your support.

Um, this is for my fellow committee members on finance.

Am I missing did I misunderstand that?

That we are moving the parking for handicap violations.

Did I miss that?

Yeah, moving it up out of from the fine to 150, but also then moving it a notice to appear.

Yeah, there was a notice to appear, I believe.

But that's uh Sir Gate, could you I wish Benjamin was here because he's the one who worked on it with this.

I believe that I believe that's probably part of section where it says provided for violations provisions of Article 5 of this chapter.

Okay.

I just wanted to be sure.

There's a there's a possibility that it was kicked out of OV OVB.

So OVB of a low level of fences as a fines for violations of city ordinances.

So they go approve a bureau first, and then if individuals or entities decide not to comply with the fine, then it might escalate to uh the code proceedings.

I mean uh court proceedings.

Perhaps the idea there is was to increase the fine so it goes directly to a court proceedings as a uh different type of violation.

Because perhaps that was the intent.

Because otherwise it it it still will be within the OEB.

Tony, I thought that and and Jeff correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we had said there was notice to appear and it would go directly to the courts.

Am I did I miss that?

I could not attend that meeting, so that's right.

Sorry, Rich and that is that is the discussion, but we also discussed it.

That still is the case, but we had to set we set the first time violation at 150.

All right.

If the first violation is at the first violation is at 150, you still within the OVB uh in within that break uh parameters.

So you should be fine.

So uh on the and I'm I'm kind of speaking from emails that I received on on the the topic because there's a lot of there are there's concern about data storage and that kind of thing.

One of the biggest questions is this exclusive for CPD?

Any data collected, any license plate read, is it exclusive to CPD?

And what are the controls to keep CPD from sharing it with other entities?

Uh yes, it is it is going to be kept with for CPD use.

Um the second part of your question I do not have the answer for.

I I'm not 100%.

Benjamin spoke about this a little bit last time.

He's a little more versed in the legality of of how that that stuff is kept.

But um it the the data will be for our use.

And I assume, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but somebody is selling other sorts of demographic data that's not related to what you're collecting.

And it's so the what what we're collecting is is just the license plate number, and then it's gonna be used to basically start a timer within the system.

Um your license plate will also be your permit.

So let's say you live around the high school, you've got a resident, uh, you're a resident around the high school.

You can register your vehicle, it will come to us.

Uh the CPD will verify by your registration that you do actually have that vehicle registered to you at that address.

So now your license plate becomes your permit.

So we will use that for our internal databases just for keeping of uh where the vehicle was scanned for um the timer purposes.

So the this company will build out the software for us so the spots will be GPS coordinated, so whatever we scan a plate, the cut the software will know based on those coordinates, say this is one hour spot, two hour spot, three-hour spot, 15-minute spot, and it'll start a timer.

So we just continually just scan to just if we scan that plate again in the same spot, then we'll know that the violations have been met.

Um plus having these part-time parking enforcement officers um in the area will also be able to dive a little deeper into some of the other stopping standing parking issues that we've got, people pulling on into the onto the multi-use path or or whatever the case may be to make a quick delivery, those types of uh lifestyle situations that interfere with the daily public, that's something that we're looking to address as well by having dedicated resources downtown to look at parking on a more regular basis.

So prior to this, we we've done a lot of work on multi-use path infractions, and I think they're pretty heavy.

Um how does one differentiate?

Do we just go with the stronger penalty or can they double team them?

Like what's the so that those those types of violations for the the multi-use path that we wouldn't really use this tool for that because that's just uh if we see it and it's on the path, we take enforcement action immediately.

This is something that we have to we have to be able to pinpoint and efficiently.

Um we just we can't do it right now without sitting an officer behind a car for three hours.

So as what once we can get the the however you guys decide to go forward with the permitting system with the multi-use path violations and the fines.

I know there's been a lot of discussions amongst you guys about that.

Um that's something that just officers on roving district patrol will keep an eye out for as well.

So this is going to be more targeted towards those the the business owners and the residents in downtown area that that really need that that turnover of the three hour spots to be able to effectively run their businesses and get people to come in and out and spend their money and enjoy what we've got to offer here in Carmel.

One of the things that's right, go ahead, Councillor Chair.

Just real quick, the item that uh creates this sends us directly the jurisdiction of the court is um line 59.

Um excluding tickets under 8-50 that shall be under the jurisdiction of the Carmel City Court.

So thank you.

Um Matt, just sorry, sorry.

Counselor Taylor.

Counselor Snyder.

Um, I did receive a couple of emails about that specific question, and and Chief Sterling responded to it.

I'm happy to share his information or share it with you offline publicly.

Whatever you think if it's relevant to the public, it's relevant, it's information.

But those questions were more regarding to the flock camera system we're already using, so it was separate issue than the L VRs, which uses similar technology.

I think I think the core of a lot of the questions are is that we in order to get the timing in place for the bond refunding, we had to hold a committee meeting the same evening that land use was also meeting.

So let's Zach, I think it would be Sergeant AC.

I think it'd be uh helpful if you start from the beginning just to rehash where did this derive from, drive from the parking study, how you guys went about it, the sit generally the system that you're going to use and the features and benefits of it uh that and which is driving why this ordinance needs to allow the clerk to designate other people for this matter.

And to add to this, can you one of the positive a great positive um uh how do you see this unrolling in a larger way?

And one of the things that counselor, well, a lot of us have sat in people's living rooms that live in the urban core and the whole neighborhood parking permit, and and and how that might expand, how they apply, what are the boundaries, that kind of thing, and then also the cost recovery because that was one of the biggest questions was there was a number thrown out that was well outrageously higher than anything the city's ever collected before, and I just want to help reconcile that a little bit.

Sure.

Um, so uh this started at the at the bare bones level um when we were listening to you guys reaching out to us from your constituents with concerns about um people overstaying in the time parking areas downtown in front of our businesses in front of some of the the multi-use areas in in downtown, and then also some of the areas around the high school where it's difficult for one or two officers to enforce a five or six hundred car problem on pickups and drop-offs.

That we got that ordinance passed.

Um it we we do go out there and we do do enforcement.

It's difficult to do it on the the scale that we need to be able to do that.

Um so we started looking at what types of options were out there, um, and then working with with engineering uh once we finally got the uh parking study back, it was actually the recommendation of the parking study to look at an LPR enforcement type system, which is the direction we were leaning anyway.

We looked at some other AI-based things, um, and just the way that our downtown is built uh with the tree canopies and and things like that, the existing infrastructure of the fiber and the power downtown.

We worked with some of the IT folks, and it's just it wasn't a feasible option to add more to the pre-existing structures, so we had to look at some other alternatives.

So we found this license plate, uh the slices plate reader system.

It's it's essentially the industry standard, it's used just about everywhere where parking enforcement um is taking place.

So I know Indiana University on their campus, they use they use LPR, they also use some of the other techniques that I discussed, but this is this is an efficient way to do it.

So we started looking at at some options versus uh us running it in-house um or contracting it out.

So we we looked at kind of like the the denison parking model, like what a noblesville would use.

Um they completely have outsourced the entire operation.

That's not what was gonna fit for us.

We want to be able to use this as a educational tool as well as be able to offset our costs by generating whatever the ticket revenue would be.

I know there was some discussions about increasing our fines because I've been here 17 years and the fines been 25 dollars since I've been here.

But essentially, what this is going to do is we will we we've been holding interviews.

Um we had a lot of interests over five over 105 applicants for two part-time parking enforcement officers.

So we're looking at trying to get them up to 28 hours per week each, um, and then I'm gonna sit down with them and work out scheduling based on availability.

Obviously, our important times Monday through Saturday, whenever businesses are thriving around 7 a.m.

to 8 p.m., 9 p.m.

or what we're gonna be trying to stagger those hours to get as much coverage as we can with the two part-time folks.

We have a vehicle identified that's already in our fleet that we're going to repurpose for this this opportunity.

So the cameras will mount to the exterior of the vehicle.

It will be marked like our current community service officers.

It's got their community service officer patch on the side, and then it'll say something to the tune of parking enforcement or we haven't dove that far into the details yet, but it's going to be a uh a hybrid Ford Explorer that we've already got in our fleets, a little miles, it's in good shape.

That's gonna be a shared vehicle between the two part-time parking enforcement officers.

The goal here is to not have them working at the same time so we can maximize coverage.

We also are getting part of the or part of this uh part of the suite of the equipment that we're looking at is three handheld LPR units as well.

So if it's a nice day, what I've been telling, what I'm my model is going to be I encourage them to go out, walk, communicate with with our business owners, talk to them, what are they hearing, what are they seeing, what are problem areas, be involved in the community uh from the parking enforcement standpoint and education.

So, what we're looking at trying to do with this is to change behavior.

Um we we like I said, we we want to encourage people to come and spend time downtown.

It's hard to do when it's hard to find a parking space right in front of your favorite restaurant because somebody's parked there all day.

So this is gonna give us the opportunity to do that.

Um the handheld units will talk to the car units.

So if, for instance, we've we've got a slow day and an officer wants to go and and walk the George district, is what we call it.

It's our downtown area that we we have dedicated resources down there.

They can take a handheld unit and scan a license plate, those will still talk to each other.

The the in-car system and the handheld system all runs the same software, it runs off of a um an Android tablet.

And then once either on the in the car or on uh in the vehicle, everything's done electronically.

So if a violation is observed, uh the enforcement officer will get a notification on the computer.

Hey, this vehicle's been here for four hours, this is a three-hour targeted spot.

You can take enforcement action.

And there's gonna be officer discretion on what that looks like.

If if they feel like a warnings necessitated, great.

If they feel like a ticket's needed, they can print off a ticket right there, leave that copy on the vehicle's windshield.

Then where this specific portion comes into play, this account, um, the main reason why we looked at this this system is the software side of it, because they handle they passport the company that we're that we're asking for approval to make an authorized account.

Passport handles all of the payment processing on their end, so it it minimizes the manpower involvement from the police department end, it streamlines this process tremendously.

Um so essentially what will happen is when someone gets a ticket, they can scan a QR code that will take them to Passport's website, they can pay Passport, Passport gets gets the money, and then we've decided on a monthly basis to get payment remitted from Passport minus whatever fees that we would owe them.

So they would take the fees that we owe them, and it's gonna vary by month depending on what the violation load looks like.

But they would take their fees out of whatever generated revenue can come in and then would remit the difference to us if it's if it's in the positive, or if we still have to pay for using their services if we didn't have a bunch of tickets that month, then we would have to work out paying the difference on whatever the service costs would be.

If somebody wishes to so they can they can admit the violation or they can uh choose to deny the violation.

If that's the case, um we will on on the police department and we will then and Benjamin explained this pretty well at the at the um finance committee, but essentially we will then trigger that into our e-ticket system that all of the police officers use that goes into the court system.

So this is this is right now it's an administrative fine, the way that it's set up with Passport.

The administrative fine would then go to Passport, and then they would give us the money back.

Once they choose to have it adjudicated, if they want to go see the judge and and and have their day in court, which is which is fine, we're going to generate that ticket into e-ticket, which is then going to generate it into the court system.

Then that will give them a court date, but it will also incur court costs because those are set by the state.

Um so we'll we will have notification on and we're we're gonna work together on what the packet is gonna look like, the trifold that we're gonna put with the ticket on all the information on where they can pay, how they can pay, what they can do if they don't want to pay, uh, what their options are, and then from that point it will uh it will generate it into the court system and then it will give them a court date, and then they can go to court just like they would on any other speeding ticket or or whatever the case would be and have that adjudicated in front of the judge.

So that's kind of the 30,000 foot view of of what this looks like and how we got to this point.

So I didn't have a question.

So I support parking enforcement, absolutely.

But I just have a question.

So I park in a spot that's you know, three hour spot.

I don't park more than three hours, I don't you know commit a parking violation.

My license plate is being scammed.

Um where is that data going?

I didn't commit it's it stays within passport system, so it's not like it goes to a cloud or anything.

That it keeps it keeps the the information within the software to be checked against all the currently scanned.

So there's a and how long is that data?

I do not know.

So there's data of where I've where I go and where I've been, if you and if I didn't commit a parking violation, could someone access that for other police resources?

You're doing an investigation, you want to know where somebody is at some time.

Is that accessible?

With within the my understanding is within the police department, we can use that information like we would with the the flock information.

But this is different than the flock information because the flock information can be shared amongst all the other all the other agencies uh that participate in flock.

But my understanding is that this is held within our system and our account, and it's just it's checked against each other every time the plates are ran based on the location.

Okay, so it's so you can be it will it can and would be used for more than just parking enforcement.

Yeah, so if if yeah, if we were scanning plates and our detectives needed to, like, hey, was this was this car it happened to be scanned in Carmel last night by parking?

There's a bar fight between two people, and someone says I wasn't at that bar, you can say, yes, well, you we can see that you were there because the parking's yeah, because you were parked in the parking, yes, yes.

And it it it takes a picture of the license plate as well, uh or it takes a picture of the of the car from the the uh cameras are gonna be mounted, usually they're on like the the top corners of the vehicle, and then maybe one down on the front just to get multiple different angles to be able to accurately scan the plate.

But all of this has to be double-checked by a human before the ticket is written.

So whenever the violation comes up, our parking enforcement officer is going to look at the first scan, the second scan, verify the plates correct, and verify that it is the same vehicle, it's in the same spot, the coordinates match before enforcement action is taken.

And this data can only be accessed by Carmel Police officers.

It's my understanding that yes, this data will be held within our Carmel Police Department account with passport.

That's my understanding.

Okay.

I forgot to answer your question about permitting.

Um for merchant merchant parking, um, for instance, uh, let's let's say you're your deli downtown, you've got six employees, and you want to be able to have them park in the merchant parking spots.

Now you would have to you would have a representative from your company would come to the police department, have to bring all the registrations documentation that this VA this person works for you, and that this is the vehicle that you want, and then we give you a little hang tag.

The way that this would work is you would identify an agent from your company, you would get an account on passport that we would be the overseeing body of that.

So your deli, you go online, you you have all of the plates of the vehicles that you want registered, that comes to us.

You can upload a photo of the registration, uh, we verify that that is the registration for that car, and then now we approve those uh we approve the the plates as merchants that are approved to be parking in relation to your company, and now your license plate is your permit.

So whenever the whenever the the cars are or the handhelds are going around scanning plates, if your vehicle is scanned in one of those merchant parking areas and you are an authorized merchant parker based on the requirements that you've met and been authorized, then you're exempt from those time limits in those certain spots like are set up now for merchant parking.

Same thing goes with residential parking.

So the resident will be able to create an account on passport to to upload their photos of their registration and their vehicles.

So then we at the records department or at the police department, we confirm that yes, this is your vehicle, yes, it it belongs to you and it's registered to you, and it's gonna be at your house.

We that your license plate then becomes your uh your permit for residential parking.

Same thing goes with uh visitor parking.

So if you've got visitors that come to your house and you need three parking permits, you can submit that information, then you could get the authorized visitor permits for uh the designated time per ordinance.

I can't remember exactly what it is, but it would be designated for that certain that certain time limit based on when you get the vehicle and put it into the guest software.

Uh so could someone is this open to public records request?

I do not know.

I I that Benjamin would eventually would be the good one for the answer to the I'm not sure.

Someone wants to say somebody, I don't even live in this area, so this isn't if you know, but I'm saying, hey, who's been at so-and-so's house?

Could I submit a public records request to find out who's been parking at those things?

So if if this database will be maintained by the city, then it will be subject to public documents requests.

Absolutely.

It doesn't mean that this documents will be produced, or several exceptions, quite a few exceptions actually, for uh personal information for um what can be released, so that would be reviewed by our office.

We have a designated attorney that does all of those requests.

So uh, but again, if it is maintained by the city, or the city has control over it, it will be subject to someone could request I want everywhere that so and so has been.

It would be uh denied for too broad.

I hope so.

So again, it has to be a very specific request.

Uh uh a person already would have to have quite a bit of information to narrow it down for us to even response to it, respond to it.

So it has to be uh reasonably particular.

That's uh that's a standard.

I think I think one discussion we had at finance committee, which is very, very important, and the reason why you and your team have recommended keeping this in-house versus hiring a denison or a third-party provider to do the ticketing, is because the goal of this is not to create a windfall of parking violation revenue.

The goal of this is to change behaviors so as the study pointed out that we have churn on our proper churn on an our on-street parking and to change behavior to alleviate some of the parking problems we have, and then also to create efficiencies right now for those who want a residential permit if we per pass an ordinance that requires only residential permit parking on a street.

Those people now they have to come, which they don't even know how to do it.

Many of them when we've passed this, they have to come to the Carmel PD public records, submit all this stuff in person, wait a period of time, then get a get a permit issued to them.

Now, this is so much easier for our residences and our businesses in our central core to be able to get their permit, apply for it online, get it in place, and not have to worry about a little sticker, whether or not tag they have in their car or not, their license plate is in.

And you know, a lot of we did have some questions about flock and uh privacy, and you know, you can't enter in the city of Carmel, really, I don't believe, without your license plate being read by a flock camera.

And that's that's a that's a standard practice, it's used all over.

These LVR, these LPRs are used all over central Indiana by Denison and by others.

It's just you want we want to do it the Carmel way versus the denison or other way that's driven that money is the motivating factor.

Our motivating factor is changing behaviors, not creating a streamer revenue.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that.

And I'm sorry, I would have had people in finance ask this question, but I didn't think about it until tonight.

Um the first edit to 358, which is the violations bureau, and this might be a legal question, but um, is a broad expansion of the ability to designate for all of the purposes of that bureau to third parties.

And I I guess I would love to kind of dig in and ensure I understand when we say appointed agents and designees and/or designees, it's a broad category, it could be really anything.

And based on the conversation tonight, it sounds like we've got a contractor set up that's gonna go both sides.

One is the enforcement side with the technology for collection of the LPR, the second is the financial side where they're collecting the payments and remittance of payments, which is exactly right.

To me, the clerk side.

So wondering as we look at the contract and thinking about it, um, and I sent Benjamin and Sam just to request I would love to kind of look at that language as we get it perfected and can share it.

Um is this a dual contract where the clerk who with that statutory authority, which is derived by state law, then put into our code, manages and owns this, or is this something that's being transferred to the police and then follow up to that again because it's a broad expansion for all the purposes of that violations bureau?

Is it should we narrow it to the purposes of just this parking enforcement at this point in time, or are we comfortable with the impact it will have on cleric operations for all the other violations that fit under that scope?

Yeah, it it is I think it's up to you at this point um whether or not to expand it beyond the purposes of this particular ordinance.

But you're right.

I mean the designee would be the police officer, so be enforcing it and potentially passport who will be administering the payment and process side.

I will make sure to review the contract that's pending in front of BPW to make sure that we aligned with the uh clerk as you indicated, Council Locke.

Um it isn't on due till uh Wednesday if if this body passes this ordinance or next time if if you decide to table it or send it to committee.

So um, but generally speaking, that amendment was designed for this ordinance, but it you're right, it will expand it for other purposes as well.

So it is an open-ended designation by the clerk to enforce uh ordinance uh violations to designates a third party essentially.

Yeah.

Again, I'm not asking of opinions, I'm just repeating some questions.

And then the thing about this and why there's so much deliberation and committee in here is it really kind of dictates the path we're gonna go.

Is it gonna be this very efficient way that some people think is a slam dunk?

And and then there are other people that think this is just a lot of technology.

Um is there any like like the Fox system uh you know that is there, you can't get past it, and you you go through it coming into Carmel.

But now we're talking about the potential um to Councilor Austin's point of really building a case against somebody before they've done something wrong, and that's why I'm gonna really need to know how long data is stored.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um because otherwise somebody could do something, and all of a sudden you've got a pre-built case of every spot they've ever been, and that to me is guilty before Pruman innocent.

Um and then when reading these plates, does it anything else trigger if you've got a warrant?

Does it trigger it?

Nothing.

So people that have a suspended license, I mean, I'm not condoning this, and I I mean I'm just saying I'm trying to understand the scope of it's purely parking.

Correct.

Okay.

So yeah, uh, I I can jump in on that real quick.

The yes, so these part-time parking enforcement officers are not going to be police officers, they're not gonna have the ability to run a driver's license, a license plate.

This is not gonna go through IDAX or NCIC.

This is purely taking a picture of a license plate, storing that license plate as a picture, as a number, and then checking it against the other license plates that have come in to see if there's a match in that same location.

This is this is not anything like flock.

This is this is purely uh think about it like a photograph service.

I mean, that's essentially what it is.

These these officers are not going to be, they're not gonna be running.

I say officers, I use the term loosely.

They're they're we're technically gonna categorize them as community or uh community service officer twos.

I think is how we're gonna how we're gonna uh do that.

But they're not gonna have any police power, they're not gonna be special police officers like our current full-time community service officers.

They they are strictly going to be enforcing it based on the photograph that that they have seen, the the plate where it was scanned.

Um, this like I said, this does not trigger any warrant hits, suspended license hits, it does not run anything in the back end um aside from what the license plate number is and checking it against our own current scans of of recent uh recent place scans for the for the for strictly enforcement of parking.

Well, I think it's good we're revamping the difference between Flock and these for me.

I still want to know how long the church is.

Yeah, and I I'm gonna follow, I just have a follow-up to that.

So before you move on, Sergeant Hasty.

Um so to Matt's point, basically, when when it reads the license plate, does it come, does the license plate come up and say this is Jo John Smith at 2020?

Okay, so basically, I just want to be clear that all it is is a picture compared to a picture and a time frame.

Correct.

So there's no identifying information other than when the ticket is actually then if it's a violation, then what happens?

That's the question.

So it if it's a if it's a violation, it the part of what we're paying passport for is they will do the they will do the back end driver's license lookup of just the license plate and it will come back to the registered owner.

So the ticket will be issued to the registered owner of the vehicle.

Now there's going to be situations where your kid was driving the car, and and whenever we get these tickets, and then they're gonna go to uh they're gonna come over across the street and they're gonna review all the tickets if somebody wants to deny it, or or whatever that appeals process looks like, um they'll have ultimate authority on hey, you know what, yeah, it wasn't this person, and we can make that decision on our end, which is to counsel Taylor's point, something that we're interested in doing to be able to have our our hands on this to do it the karma way, not the predatory parking, trying to just generate revenue.

Um we're trying to do this with with our with our citizens in mind and our business owners in mind to try to efficiently turn over those spots.

We're we're not we're not trying to to be predatory about this.

We're just trying to answer their calls for help on on how we can efficiently do this.

If I can follow up on another question about data, just to give you a little bit of the background, um we have updated our data protection cybersecurity addendum a couple of years ago at this point.

We worked closely with IT department, and in fact, we're still meeting every other week on Thursdays with IT department to make sure that we are staying in state of the art when it comes down to cybersecurity and data protection, and including in that addendum where some severe limitations on how the data that's collected from the city is being used by our vendors.

So uh there's limitations on commercial use of that data, there's limitations on how you can store it, what's considered in identifiable information, personal identifiable information, how that's to be stored, how it's to be shared, et cetera.

So it's quite a comprehensive uh list of things, and in fact, it's increased our contract by about 25%, just just in incorporating the data protection, cybersecurity protections and our service agreements.

So I just have two questions.

One is um currently, what is the permitting structure for our residents and our businesses?

Do they pay for permits?

How does that work?

They're all just generated and given it.

Yeah, all we I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Uh yes, all of our permitting is free.

Um they just have to come to the police department to our records window, provide their registration, we verify that the plate on the vehicle or the or the vehicle that uh they're trying they're wanting to register is actually registered to them and their address, and then we issue them their permit right there.

So it's gonna eliminate some of that cost as well of having those those made every year whenever we can just utilize your license plate instead of having to make different colors of hang tags and stickers and things like that.

Sure.

So there may be some efficiencies in that system as well.

Correct, yes.

Um the second piece of this is um I recognize that we're not trying to punish residents, that the intent of this is to try to change behavior.

However, there is a cost to doing this, which is your two part-time officers, handheld devices, um, the vehicle that you're gonna be using, the software itself, and the monthly fees that you have to somehow recover.

So I'm just trying to have an understanding, just uh as a fiduciary responsibility to just understand what are those costs going to look like and how are we going to ensure that we can um change behavior and absorb those costs effectively and still not you know inconvenience our citizenry.

Sure.

Um so it we really don't we don't know how big the scope of this problem is because we've not had the ability to ever enforce it.

So we're we're not gonna know what we're getting into with this until we get into it.

We we've listened to our residents and we know that it's a problem.

There but they've been telling us for years that this is a problem.

Uh so we're we're not gonna know until we get into it.

This is this is a three-year contract right out of the gate.

So once once we get in, once we get into year two and a half or whenever we start looking, that we need to see, hey, is this working?

Is this not working?

We can we can address that and and if if we see that this is a benefit going forward, we can have those conversations.

Um we could reevaluate at that point.

But this is this is just kind of the ground zero to get us started somewhere to get the ball rolling on this Mr.

President.

Um so um so I've been kind of sitting here listening and um thinking back to the um years of um trouble that we have had with parking in our downtown as the downtown becomes more popular.

Um so I don't know that we will not inconvenience our citizens because it is um while maybe um not intentional, there is a proclivity to uh seek convenience which may inconvenience somebody else.

Uh the parking lot near uh indie coffee roasters or the neighborhoods around the high school or the the parking spaces in front of the dry cleaner um and restaurant pickups.

So I am not fearful of inconveniencing residents.

I I I actually want to try and make it better for everyone in our core uh because I do see that there um there is a lot of uh strife going on with parking and just uh you know I think there are inconsiderate uh parkers as well.

So um so I I want to thank you for all the work that you've put into this.

I want to thank you for um doing your research.

I guess I just want to ask both you, Sergeant Hasty and Sergey in your professional position, uh you as uh police enforcement and our legal department, are you both comfortable with the way the data is being managed?

Are you comfortable with this tool?

Do you see any downside?

Do you see any danger?

Um is there is there something that worries you?

And um and I'm asking that question because I want to know if the good outweighs any possible bad, which is the only reason to do this, in my opinion.

So could you just answer that question?

Do you are there is there anything that worries you or that you see as a possible problem for this program in the future regarding data?

Regarding the data, I I am not concerned.

Um the the flock data that we're gathering every day that you that that we're all traveling uh throughout the state is it's more comprehensive than even remotely close to what this is going to be capable of.

I I'm not concerned at all with with what we're gonna be collecting and the the data that we're gonna be collecting for for this.

I'm not concerned whatsoever.

The only concern that I have, and it's it's kind of the goal of this is if we come back in three years and we're like we're not writing any more parking tickets, like so.

We've changed the behavior.

So now what does that look like going forward?

We can we can take a step back and say, hey, is this something that we need to continue to invest in, or is this something we can downsize and we we've got the problem under control with some spot enforcement?

Uh we can look at what what that looks like going forward.

But I mean that's that's kind of what our goal is.

But I mean I I could see this becoming effective and us not having nearly as many parking issues as we've got because we change the behavior.

So um I I do not have any concerns.

Uh to answer a question, I do.

But uh let me just reinforce something that Surgeon Hasty said as well.

We collect enormous amount of data.

As a city and as every department, et cetera.

I'm always concerned about data protection, data security, how it's used, how it's stored, how it's returned to us, how it's destroyed, etc.

etc.

etc.

I would be the most concerned about data that's collected for our HR department, for example.

There's a lot of personal information there that's stored very securely.

We review those provisions incredibly carefully.

And these provisions as well.

As far as my concern goes for this specific ordinance and the corresponding contract, it's the least concern.

Because they the type of data that's being collected and the amount of data that's being collected is incredibly low relative to other contracts, agencies we're dealing with, et cetera.

So do I have a concern?

I always have a concern about how data is stored.

It's can we eliminate the risk through zero about the data breach on a particular agency or particular third party or particular contractor or vendor?

No.

We cannot.

It's just a is just the truth of it.

But as far as where my concern is, it's the least concern.

Because again, the type of data and what is being collected.

All right.

Sounds like managed risk.

So thank you.

All right, thank you.

So I think you're right, and I hope that in three years we're coming back.

And I want to, I don't know where he went, but one of the comments Jack made.

Jack's still here.

I want to support him.

Uh was you know, is there the ability in the next in three years?

Let's say it's not parking.

I mean, are there add-ons, other things?

The sound ordinance, other perhaps there'll be technology where they don't have to be vehicle mounted that can pick up other items, the the noise, the other things that might be better collected through an automated process.

Um I think that's what Jack was was trying to get to as far as pedestrian safety.

Uh do you see that being a future?

Yeah, I I kind of in immersed myself into this.

This is this is pretty much my sphere.

This is what I I do.

I get I get emails weekly from people trying to show us their their cool new products.

And this technology is rapidly evolving.

There's some really neat stuff out there.

Um it's very new, and I'm not sure how it would fit in yet, but from even from the parking study that we did, the best thing that we can do right now is this form of enforcement.

And that was what our we paid the parking study to tell us.

Um, and that that's what that's what we've seen is gonna be the most efficient route for us here in Carmel going forward right now.

But you're right.

I mean, this this technology is is growing and there's always gonna be a need for it.

Um, but one of the nice things about Carmel is we don't have paid parking.

So we've got to and I I'm a fan of that.

I want to encourage people to come here, but we've got to make sure we encourage them to move on as well when it's time to do so.

So um I I think this is this is this is gonna solve that problem for us, at least in the short term, to be able to start turning those spots over.

And in the future, I'm excited to see what what's gonna be available, and hopefully we can stay on the on the leading edge of it going forward because that's obviously what we pride ourselves on.

So there's some neat stuff out there.

Um I'm constantly going to conferences and and talking to leaders in the industry on on what's up and coming.

So I'm excited for what the future is gonna be on this.

Thank you.

And if you could, assuming this gets through tonight, if you could prior to the execution by BPW, just satisfaction how long data is stored by Passport.

Um then after the decisions made on this, uh Councilor Taylor, if you would take up fees in your committee, because to your point, a $25 ticket is I'll pay that for premium parking.

I'll pay a lot more than that.

So it really needs to reflect the community and yeah, and and just uh on that point, um, I I elaborated on this in the the other committee, but to bring you guys up to speed, I I looked at some of the uh the comparable cities to Carmel um uh as far as population and demographics and everything that we're usually compared with as far as the best places to live.

So I I reached out to a lot of their different municipalities and their agencies on how much their parking fines and fees and structures are.

We are incredibly low.

Um I mean it less than half of the six places that I looked at, our fines were less than half of what all of theirs were.

So I think now's a good time to look at look at addressing that, but just to give a little confidence there that we we do need to step up to the plate on this, and now's a good time to interview.

Would you be willing to attend the committee meeting to absolutely what your thoughts are on what the absolutely happy to?

Are there any more comments?

I'm uh we have to um uh vote on the amendment because it was amended out of financing.

Did we already do I think we did that?

We did that.

I move for approval the approval of amended ordinance d 28-20-26.

Second.

Okay.

And it uh did you get your contract question the designation of power question answered?

Sure.

Congratulations, Sergeant.

Good luck with the new endeavor.

Second reading, second reading of ordinance D 2A22-26, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana authorizing the issuance of general obligation refunding bonds for the purpose of providing funds to refund certain outstanding general obligation bonds of the city and to pay incidental expenses in connection there with the sponsors Taylor and myself.

This has returned.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So a lot of these items are related due to the bond refunding.

So we're gonna turn it over to Zach Jackson, City CFO to address any questions and have further discussion.

None of these ordinances are resolutions were amended in committee, so they are as presented.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Zach Jackson, uh CFO and controller for the City of Carmel.

As Councillor Taylor mentioned, there are uh technically five here before you tonight, kind of all a part of this same packet.

You have uh one ordinance that authorizes the issuance of the geo bonds up to 12 million, and then four uh resolutions uh authorizing issuance of the different bonds.

Um I have several folks here with me tonight if uh we want to get in the weeds on some of the uh any questions here, but essentially what we have is an opportunity to uh refinance.

I think we're talking 157 million dollars of debt at lower interest rates.

Uh the idea is that if we're able to strike kind of while the before interest rates uh potentially go up again, uh we'll be looking at up to 12 uh.3 million of savings.

Uh what we've done is try to target uh as much as it that makes sense towards fiscal years 27 and 28, really that the idea of lowering our operating cost, uh we won't have to pay as much for this debt in those two years to kind of help us get through what uh uh the state has pushed on to us in terms of SEA one.

Uh outside of those general fund savings that I was mentioning of the maybe up to four million a year, uh we're also uh refinancing our stormwater bonds from 2016 and 2020.

Uh that's expected to save uh about a half million a year.

Um so far this kind of bundle has been through uh the redevelopment authority, the redevelopment commission, board of public works, as they are the board of directors for the stormwater department.

Um and then we're back here tonight on on second reading uh for these.

Um I counselor Taylor, you did mention um there was there was one amendment we struck where we struck.

Could you explain that one line in item G resolution 5-18-26-01?

Yeah, if I can, I want to uh invite Brad to come up to assist with that one.

Good evening.

Uh Brad Bingham, Barnes and Thornburg, we're bond counsel to the city on this refunding.

Uh as Zach mentioned, uh, it's resolution G in the agenda, uh 05-18-26-01.

There was one sentence, um, and I forget which section that was in, but it was the last sentence, and I think it was section two.

Um, that it the original resolution said that upon the issuance of the refunding bonds, the pledge of lit to that particular lease would terminate.

We want to get rid of that language because we do want to keep the pledge of lit in place to that uh particular financing so long as the existing lit is around under current law through uh uh July of 2028.

Do you want to go ahead and make that amendment?

Do you want to wait until we get to that item?

Oh, I'm sorry.

It's on G.

Thank you.

If if I can add one more comment, uh Councillor Lock, uh at the last meeting, you had mentioned kind of uh being prepared to talk about like what what are our trade-offs here in this situation?

And and I would see two.

Uh the first one I mentioned it is is a little facetious.

We're we're trading the ability to refinance at a higher interest rate later on.

We as we look at the kind of economic trends, uh, you know, we now have a window to refinance that that uh hasn't existed in the last 10 years.

In the near future, we think that rates are going to go up probably later this year.

Not exactly sure how long they stay up.

This uh what we're losing would be the ability to refinance later if rates do go below uh what they are now in the next 10 years.

Uh another way to answer that question would be I I think when we've done refinancing or refunding in the past, it's usually been what more can we build or do with this freed up dollars, and that's not our intent here.

Our our intent is to lower our our uh our operating cost, if you will.

Uh we won't have to pay as much for this debt uh over the over the remaining 10 years compared to what we're on track to right now.

Thank you, Zach, for that presentation.

Um I've been noticing some chatter on social media and I've been getting emails from constituents that talk about us kicking this can down the road and um uh paying off the debt, and I had a really nice conversation with Heidi Baker.

Um and I think it's worth just a couple minutes of or you or Heidi, whomever would like to talk about it, really just hone in that we are not kicking the can down the road here.

To that point, if we don't refinance the debt, when is it paid off?

If we do refinance the debt, when's it paid off?

I think that's yeah, that that uh yeah, this uh the the uh we are largely refinancing 2016 bonds that uh will mature in 2036.

We're we're not changing the maturity dates of those at all.

We'll still pay those off on the same time frame.

It just won't be as expensive along the way.

Um the 2020 stormwater bonds do uh reach maturity before a little bit earlier, I believe, and we're not extending those as well, but I don't remember off the top of my head what yeah, those uh mature January one of twenty thirty-three and those will remain maturing in January one of twenty thirty-three.

Um though we are going out to the market with one bond issue if there are pieces that mature before um twenty thirty-six, then they will continue to mature um at those periods of time.

We are not extending the maturity date on any of the existing bonds.

And one of the um one of the comments with this scoop and toss or kick the can down the road, um that is typically discussed when you are moving principal towards the end of the bond issue.

And we are not doing that in this case.

We are paying principal and interest throughout the life of the bond issue.

Um every single year there is savings on the bond issue of let me pull it up real quick.

Um in the 27 and 20, as Zach mentioned, there's four or five million being saved, and then thereafter is about 1.3 million every single year that is being saved in interest costs.

So we are not pushing principal back.

Um we are merely releasing some of those debt service reserve funds.

We have a bond premium that's allowing the par amount of the bond issue to be reduced.

Those mechanics are allowing us to have more savings up front instead of spreading that savings across the whole bond issue.

So but there is there is interest savings every single year of 1.3 million.

So when we look at this, let's make a assumption that the cost of doing business in the city 143 for general fund one forty-four-ish, one forty four million dollars.

And let's say the cost of running the city again next year is 144 million dollars, but now it were less for year one, four million dollars that depending on the mayor and the council could use to help see fund the long-term asset management fund or other things.

Is that is that a logical way to look at it?

It's freeing up capital.

It is freeing up capital that is sitting in accounts right now.

There's over 3.9 million that are sitting in two debt service reserve funds for the two stormwater bonds that we're we are refunding.

Those are both going to be released and used to help pay down this bond issue, which is allowing the city to realize those savings when they are to clarify Zach, this is we obviously we're not in the budget process yet for next year.

We don't know what that's gonna look like.

The premise of that argument that this is freeing up money that we pay to the debt reserve.

We have to pay the debt.

It frees it up because we're saving it.

Has there been discussion about the savings, or is this an attempt to make up lost revenue based on SEA one as a whole to get back closer to where we were with the original revenue forecast from three years ago, whatever it was.

And I I asked that because I think it's fundamental to the premise of why we are refunding now, because we are losing the opportunity if rates fall and things are dire, or we've got very cool exceptional projects in the future that we wanted to put money into to refinance, it frees up revenue in a different way.

And without a broader discussion of need, other than just saying that the finances changed and we are set up now to have less money.

Um we have struggled, I think, to cut um or to discuss cutting or to find ways to minimize expenses for things that may or may not be worthwhile in a time of potential austerity due to state funding requirements.

So when we talk about four million next year, five million the next year, would love to know just your take on whether or not that is purely trying to make up revenue by minimizing expenses for bonds to pay for the things that are there in a way that we continue, and is this the right time?

Um are there other discussions we should be having because as rates change or things move?

There may be a better time in the future to refund these bonds.

We can only do it one time, right?

That's the way that the mechanism is set up.

I so are we trading now presently for the moonshot of attempting to make up revenue that is now lost into potentially perpetuity without knowing what it's going to look like next year as a matter of course, or is this referring it up to put money into our reserve account to ensure that we can make sure we get through the next couple of years of weird financing a better way?

Yeah.

Um I'm gonna let Heidi answer the if if if not now kind of what we're market side of things, yeah.

Actually, you want to do that one first and I'll I'll answer different things.

Yeah, as far as the bond market goes, obviously no one has a crystal ball, right?

We don't know um where we're headed.

Well, we don't know what the future is going to entail.

I should say where we are headed, we know this year and what our pricing director is telling us based on all the market trends, all of the economic data that's coming out is um the municipal market follows the Fed futures rate very closely, and that right now is projected to go up into the end of this year and into the end of next into the beginning of next year.

Um so we do know interest rates are going up.

So I mean, we do have a sweet spot and time to get into the market now if if that is a desire of your um council.

Um so we know interest rates are gonna go up.

Obviously, there's only 10 years left on this bond issue, so you know what how uh much of a bet do you want to make that they're gonna come down more than what they are right now in the next 10 years?

I mean, that's uh up to somebody that's willing to bet.

You know, it's just it there is an opportunity right now to save the city millions, so you want to is so if we we finances now and it closes in what 90 days?

Um July.

July?

Yep.

So is there a wouldn't there be some savings realized this year then?

Or how does that yeah?

I there's a probation our our next it's probably based on the next payment that would be due after Yeah, and I can share my screen if you or I know the handout that I handed out last time, page two of that, it shows you the annual savings each year.

And so for the January 15th to 27 payment, we are anticipating about 373,000 of interest savings on that payment, and then you'll realize the majority of the next two payments after that will be 2.5 million each and then about two million the next two.

The net present value savings also is being created by the debt interest reserve funds prank paying down the principal since and these bonds were only callable until now, so this was our first opportunity to do something with that.

That is correct.

And um when we go out to refund this bond issue because it only has a 10-year term, there will be no um no opportunities to call the bonds after this point in time.

So do you want to be transparent on that?

But again, what is the market gonna do in the next 10 years?

Um, you know, kind of hard to tell, but we do know it's going up.

And we've heard from the FOMC that they might bump it two times between now and the end of this year, even so.

Yeah.

Can you present the net present value savings calculation?

And yeah, and actually I can just put plug this in if you want me to.

Yeah, we've got the other important item I think is a um to discuss is the um tax incremental financing um back bonds.

Um the uh if you pull up that series.

So this is the net present value savings um in the bottom right hand corner.

You can see right now is about 12.3 million.

Our goal is to be between eight and twelve, um, depending upon where we are at in the market.

Um so that's what we're shooting for right now.

Uh what I would it'd say is that how we advise our clients that there needs to be at least three percent savings on a deal to even consider doing it.

So you guys are definitely well above that in this particular transaction.

And these are these savings are net of cost issues costs, so the the savings are after cost.

Correct.

Yep.

And then uh the 2016 A bonds, which are those are the um the ones backed by TIFF.

We can we go to that specific page?

Yes, so that is in a different document.

Do you want just the savings?

Yeah, just or do you want to see like the revenue compared to debt?

Yes, that one, okay.

I know we showed it in finance.

Uh let me get there really quick.

There's lots of so these these bonds, the allocation area expires before the bonds retired.

And so um, thanks to previous council and administration, they establish a um revenue deposit agreement and fund for which would fund the last few years of payments.

Um this helps us we uh they've done an an they did the TIFF analysis early on and showed that um even with the declining AV in the US 31 corridor that the revenue deposit agreement has substantial funds available to pay those remaining was a two years, two years of payments.

Yeah, so yeah, the shortfall that it covers are these these two last years here.

You can see the 2.8 and 4.4 million of shortfall.

And it's got eight plus million in it now, I believe.

The special reserve has eight point eight.

Well, after making all of these payments, it has eight point eight.

So but the current balance on the special reserve um, well, as of let's see, as of the beginning of uh this calendar year was 7.1 million.

So after this year's payments, it's gonna be 8.8.

So it would be like fully funded enough to cover those payments right now.

Right now.

Yeah.

And then this so the the key is here too is that you're reducing this debt service payment for these bonds, which then even makes it even makes the balance that we have in the special reserve account even more.

So special reserve is funded by fixed payments right now.

That can be amended throughout time as needed by the council.

Yep.

But yes, it is fully now to cover the shortfall, the two shortfall years.

So that makes that gap even bigger.

To the good.

Just wanted to ask one quick question for whoever wants to answer it, but one quick question on the so you mentioned that the net um present value um was going to be about seven eight seven point eight three percent is what you you said here on the savings.

Right.

And uh that was after cost.

Can you just just for um my purposes, what is the s an estimated cost if you were to put that forward of actually doing this refinance just for people to understand?

Yeah, yes.

So there are several fees as you can imagine in doing a bond issue.

Um one of the fees is the underwriters, so the underwriters role and responsibilities to take this deal and go find purchasers for it.

Um their fee is a fixed percentage of the par amount of the bond issue, so it's 0.452 or 425% of the par amount, which is about six hundred thousand dollars.

Um, and then there's a line item for allowance of cost of issuance for another another six hundred thousand that covers our fee, bond council fee, local council fee, underwriter council fee, um, rating agency, which we're going to the rating agency this Friday to have a call with them.

Um so all the preparation for that.

Um there are attest station reports that are required as a part of this, so parity reports, lease efficiency reports, escrow verification reports, that is something that our office takes care of.

That's all included in that other fee.

So it's about what was that one one point two, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Any other questions regarding this?

Because what I'd like to do if everybody's amenable is roll through these.

I assume if somebody has an objection to one, they probably have an objection to all, or if vice versa, if we could go through with the exception of the one amendment that needs to be made and just knock out these votes.

But if anybody has any further comments or concerns, please.

Can I I just wanted to ask one sorry, one more question?

Because I was looking at the um the gaps obviously between you know, going out to the market for you're saying max of twelve million total for the first ordinance that we're looking at, but the outstanding principle is obviously less than that currently, correct?

So there's a gap in between that and about a 800,000 plus 810, something like that if you do the math.

So that gap, um, that's what we're gonna be kind of looking at as the differences between what you're gonna get when you go out to market and also the fee structure.

So that's gonna because we're gonna you're gonna go out for 12, right?

But you we only need so how does that just for my understanding.

So the the numbers that are in the legal documents that are you are approving are maximum par amount of the bond issue.

Um those are very high numbers compared to where we're gonna actually go out.

We make them high just so you don't have to come back through the legal process.

If for some reason the premium comes in less than what we're anticipating, we want to make sure that we're covered and to able to do that bond issue.

So the 12 million uh max bar amount is related solely to the GO bond issue portion of the deal.

Um and I don't know if Brad wants to say anything, but um, so what we are actually planning to issue for that particular piece of it all is about let's see, the power amount is about 10 10.16 million.

And you are approving 12.

So there's a gap there, but we won't issue the 12 million, we're gonna come in less than that.

So you'll come in at what you need to come in to cover the costs and allow for that interest rates, bond premium, all of those are moving parts that um those will be finalized on the day of pricing, which we're uh shooting for June 22nd with a July 16th closing.

Uh all of these are rounded up a little bit for that same purpose.

Correct.

Yep.

This next resolution, the the reason I asked that is because this rounding seems less, but then the when you're talking about the um the 10, it may be that it's a different, again, a different structured um um bond.

Um, but that maximum authorized amount seems a lot higher than what we're going in.

So why the big difference, if you could explain that to me.

That's a great question.

Um so like the stormwater bond issues, those have those debt service reserve funds and prior bond funds that are being released.

When we set the maximum par amount, we just assume those aren't there for some reason, which we know they are there.

So again, we just set the maximum like quite a bit higher than um what we're gonna actually issue just to make sure if something would happen that we are covered and you don't have to go back through the legal process.

Yeah, we know the funds are there though.

So counselor Schneider, can I can I answer the question?

I I I never got back to Councillor Locke's initial question there earlier.

Uh this is an attempt to lower our operating cost in response to declining revenues forced onto us by the state, whether property tax changes, changes to our food and beverage tax, how we can use that, changes to our building permit revenues go.

Um I mean, we we will see less revenue for for next calendar year in the general fund than we had this year.

So yeah, I'm I'm looking at every nook and cranny I can to lower our operating cost, and this being a a big opportunity are we gonna talk about any of the ones specifically, or you want to go through these and just I just I the only other question I had was um there was a line that I caught in there on um the oh I can't remember which one it was now.

I'm so sorry.

Um the one's on the spot.

No, it's okay.

I was um it said for I think it was for the stormwater bonds to alleviate or we're alleviating restrictive covenants from 2016 to 2020.

What what are those restrictive covenants that we're alleviating and what is that?

What does that mean?

Sorry.

Jump in here, uh Brad Bingham Barnes of Thornberg.

Thank you.

Can you say the ordinance?

Um was uh J.

It's item J above.

J, yes.

Uh the reason for that is in under Indian law when you do a refunding, there's uh sort of two reasons why you're allowed to do the refunding.

One is for economic savings, so you're reducing your interest costs.

Uh the other is to alleviate a restrictive covenant.

And so in this instance, uh, as Heidi mentioned, we are refunding the 2016 and 2020 stormwater bonds, each of which has a uh fully funded debt service reserve fund.

Um as part of this restructuring, we're gonna we're gonna get rid of debt service reserve fund.

So it's sort of a restrictive covenant in the sense that you have to have a a year's worth of debt or money or cash set aside for for any sort of revenue shortfall.

We don't need that any longer because you're you're healthy in that sense.

And so uh sort of standard language we put in there, but again, if in just in case everybody would ever question it, you could just point to the to the statute and say this is the reason upon which we're doing this this refunding.

And then it says that they're paid out of the available revenue.

So is this debt restructuring then gonna change increases in stormwater fees for caramel residents?

That was my only I mean and again I'm not a bondsperson, so I'm asking this as a citizen because I just want to understand.

Great question.

And then maybe just a step back uh to explain the 2016 stormwater bonds versus 2020.

The 2016 stormwater bonds were expected to be paid from stormwater revenues and have been, but the only source of security it was pledged was a special benefits tax on the storm owner district.

In 2020, it was sort of just the opposite.

The only thing pledged were the actual revenues of the stormwater district.

There was no property tax backup.

To kind of clean up the lien pledge, we said that it's kind of silly to do it that way.

Let's just do it like we did in 2016.

The expected source repayment is stormwater revenue.

The only thing pledged, though, is the special benefits tax.

But there's no implicit rate increase as as a result of this.

I just wanted to make sure we made that clear.

Uh the other one with the restricted covenant was um had the surety.

Yeah, both of the TIFF bond issues that we are refunding have debt service sureties on them.

Again, those are different than a debt service reserve fund.

The reserve fund is cash that was set aside at the closing of the bond issue that are sitting in a bank account.

A debt service reserve surety that will be released.

That is an insurance policy that acts like a debt service reserve fund.

So on large transactions, you often see sureties.

If for some reason the TIFF was to come in short, the surety would be uh polled on and then um and not use the property tax backup.

So those both will be released as a part of this.

So in layman's terms, we don't have to take out private mortgage insurance anymore.

No, no more PMI for the City of Carmel.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um we're gonna take a five-minute recess when we come back, we'll vote on all of these.

I want Councilor Austin be able to vote on these.

I've got to go.

Uh to be frank, but it'll be a true five minutes, no longer.

All right.

We good out.

All right.

We are readjourning at 820.

Um further questions regarding to the bond refinance.

Okay, hearing none.

Um we are gonna start with uh D.

Second reading of ordinance D 2822-26.

Move for approval of ordinance D-2822 six.

Ordinance E being held.

Ordinance F being held.

Ordinance G.

Councilor Taylor.

Actually, you did we actually on item F, we did send it back with an amendment.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Um this is to establish a non-reverting fund.

We made a couple amendments uh to that.

Um is we incorporated the um language into the ordinance based on your email and conversations with Zach.

And we also amended the ordinance to change the name to the public infrastructure insurance recovery fund, which will be fund number 927.

So I move to uh amend ordinance D-2824-26 with the amended language Zach presented and to uh finance committee today, and then also with the name change of the fund to the infrastructure insurance recovery fund.

My that was my fault, and I apologize, Zach.

I do need you to put that on the screen so we can put it into the record.

So this is what uh council taylor was talking about way back in council comments.

Um idea got split into this is one of the the two to keep the city transparent, efficient, and solvent on anticipated things moving forward that uh are require insurance casually claims.

So the original language is up there.

I'm I don't know what color the that is now the chain the amendments are with the the different color.

Yeah, give me thank you.

Yeah, it's so so the red is as I kind of originally drafted this a few weeks ago.

Uh the green is the new language proposed by uh uh councillor Snyder.

Uh the amendment that we talked about this uh a minute ago was changing where it says here the non-reverting city assets repairs and maintenance fund, uh I believe to the public infrastructure uh insurance recovery fund was the was the edit.

But essentially this uh it was rather open-ended before.

This now clarifies that um all insurance proceeds and so forth will be a stat will be deposited in the fund.

Um it talks about the the expenses, allowable expenses would be uh where there's been damage to a public infrastructure, and uh the city is in the process of uh filing an insurance claim for that.

And uh essentially the last section here on the page F uh talks about if the costs for the for that repair uh should be greater than what insurance reimburses uh then we would need to come back and ask for the additional money to to spend in that situation.

Um in some instances, you know, you you may not want to put it back exactly the same way it was, you may want to make make it better whenever you uh repair, or there might be a deductible involved, you're not getting reimbursed for the deductibles, things like that.

And then lastly, on the other page is just a very thorough uh definition for what is included in public infrastructure assets.

We're in a very unique situation where due to Zach and staff and the mayor.

We were able to achieve our budget goals while still taking substantial amount of money from the street department to cover a substantial loss we had to a city asset over a million dollars, but that put a lot of constraints on that department, and this isn't a unique thing.

Normally they're not a million dollar items, but you're always trying to find how do you upfront pay for something.

So now we are in a situation where we have gotten a this insurance check, and the mayor and um finance and and the council think that a prudent way to help keep us from having this issue in the future is to create this fund that will receive insurance claims.

But since we have the seed money to effectively open the new fund with 1,074,842, um, it protects us from having to take from other departments.

It also protects us against insurance denials, accidents where someone doesn't have insurance.

Um we don't various departments don't take the financial brunt because of the negligence of others.

Um we're we're seeding this with insurance, and it'll be used to front load insurance claims so that we can make repairs quickly and efficiently.

It gives the administration the ability to act uh faster than they could otherwise and without having to move a bunch of money around that can get muddled.

Did I say anything incorrect?

Not at all.

I'll I'll just add there's there's technically three agenda items relative to this uh here tonight.

Uh the first one we we skipped over E, which was the appropriation.

We have re-publicly noticed that.

That's the right way to say uh we we've done that again just to um use the new fund name to be as transparent as possible there.

So we've posted that again today.

That will be that will meet the the 14-day requirement to be on council's uh next meeting agenda.

Uh E is the uh pardon me F is the creation of the fund and then later on is the transfer uh out of the general fund.

Sorry, uh K is the transfer of cash, uh the resolution to transfer it from the general fund to the new fund.

Any questions on this?

So we are on we've had we have a motion and a second to amend to amend to amend with the language presented on the screen.

It was okay.

That was K.

That was F.

That was F.

Yeah, F.

G.

Councilor Taylor.

Um resolution C C 05-18-26-01.

Counselor Taylor.

Well on item F.

I was gonna make a motion for approval.

Yes, oh I'm sorry.

Item F ordinance, I move for approval as amended uh the ordinance D-2824-26.

Second.

Thank you.

Now we're on G.

Resolution C C 05-18-26-01.

Councilor Taylor.

Thank you.

This um is part of the bond refunding, so create the new series uh 2026A.

Uh move for approval of resolution C Cero 5-18-26-0.

Well, I'm sorry, item G, we have to make a motion to amend.

I apologize.

I'm I move to amend line uh or uh uh resolution CC051826-01 line striking the following sentence from line 125 in the ordinance upon the issuance of the 2026 A bond.

The council hereby repeals the pledge of local income tax revenues to secure the lease as set forth in ordinance D-2283-16.

And to approve G.

Now I move for approval for the amended ordinance or resolution C Cero five-18-26-01.

Uh H resolution CC dash zero five-18-26-02.

Move for approval move for approval.

C Cero five-18-26-03.

Move for approval.

Resolution C C dash zero five-18-26-04.

Move for approval.

Where'd you vote?

What?

Oh, it didn't work with that.

K will be held.

Public hearings, there are none.

Sorry.

That was really good.

Um sorry, uh first reading of ordinance z707-26.

Uh this is an ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel establishing fees related to zoning and development applications and violations in the unified development ordinance for the city's engineering department and amending the UDO fees to comply with HEA 1001.

Sponsor is Councillor Ayers.

Move to introduce I this is filing fees, I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Okay, I'll have Sarah Day.

Did you want me to read it?

This ordinance amends the filing fees in Article 1, Section 1.29 of the unified development ordinance.

Good evening, Sergey Kirchukin Office of Corporation Council.

There's one note on this ordinance.

This is a UDO amendment, which means it's a zoning ordinance text amendment.

There has to be a public hearing on this portion.

We were not able to notice it in time.

It is scheduled for the next meeting, but we can introduce and send it to committee to start discussing.

But we we just have to comply with this.

This is a by the way this is our code rule.

This is not a state law.

We did amend that rule regarding rezones, so map amendments.

But regardless, this is um as uh councillor Ayers indicated.

This is an amendment of Article 1, Section 129 Unified Development Ordinance, which is filing fees.

It accomplishes two things.

Number one, it complies with requirements of uh HE A 1001.

It's specifically the way the fees that can be increased has changed under state code.

Now we cannot change it yearly as it is now in our UDO.

It uh now it has to be changed every five years based on CPI, and under it certain circumstances it can be amended or increased in in the intermittent period if they the fees go up or other expenses go up so much that uh it creates kind of an extraordinary amendment, if you will.

So this is number one.

Um that amendment is in the first portion of the ordinance in section two.

So it's just literally complies with the state code.

The language is taken directly from state code.

Um but so the second the second portion of the ordinance starting in section four is introduces engineering fees for development fees.

That also director peace is here, he will be able to go through the fees, but it being you moved on to another ordinance though, correct.

You still in I'm still in this, yeah.

Okay.

So these fees are related to uh development fees.

So uh they include such things as development plan reviews, um plat reviews, uh minor plat reviews, major plat reviews, vacations, um major project PUDs, use variances, special exceptions, etc.

Uh historically, the city of Carmel has not charged those fees.

It's um most of our neighbors do charge those fees for years now.

You know uh full well that we have we have had significant budgetary constraints over the last couple of years, and that discussion started actually a couple of years ago as well.

And director peace can give you a little bit more of a background.

But uh, we thought in discussions with the engineering department, the DOTS department, but the administration we thought it is time to introduce some of those fees.

We believe that they're fairly conservative compared to uh our neighbors, and especially considering the fact that we have never charged them before.

And uh, I will leave it to Director Peace to actually go through the fees that are being introduced.

So this has been introduced, all right.

And then presumably the next ordinance is gonna be introduced, which is seven pages of edits.

This has been discussed and talked through not this one in the second ordinance.

Yeah, second one, yeah.

Has been discussed and talked through land use for a while.

However, and the reason I asked the clarifying question at the beginning, it has been asked that it is still a first reading, so it is the first time the full council is seeing all this.

So this will go back to committee one more time for a final review, both both of these.

So I just wanted to bring that to your attention before you speak ad nauseum.

There will be one more opportunity to do this, and we'll vote on it the next time.

And that was that was brought to my attention and I respect the uh the request because it has not been openly discussed in a council meeting.

We did the discussion prior to an ordinance being presented.

And uh one more comment I forgot to mention.

It did pass blank commission since it's a UDO amendment, it received unanimous favorable recommendation with a note, no amendments, but with a note that blank commission believed that the fees being introduced might be a little too low, but encouragement to revisit it in uh council level to perhaps increase them further.

It's just enough from my.

Sponsors, heirs, Joshi, Minar, and myself.

Um this is an ordinant amending uh excavation and right-of-disturbus permits, maintenance and restoration requirements, as well as amending penalties for violation.

So this has been looked at in land use for a year, um, really trying to promote pedestrian safety on our paths, um, where contractors just park.

Um, also uh much like the uh LDRs change behavior um in that regard, and then also uh penalty structure uh and requirements for restoration.

So for development projects, um whether they're impacting our asphalt, any public right-of-way that a development or construction activity may cause damage to and a lot of the language outlines this, but uh restoration back to uh equal or better condition.

Mood introduce.

Thanks, Richard.

Go ahead.

That's it.

You got it.

Thank you.

This will this will go uh back to land use one more time for nostalgia, and um first reading of ordinance D 2827-26, in ordinance of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana adding Chapter 6, adding Chapter 6, Article 5, Section 6-85 to the Carmel City Code and amending chapter 3, Article 2, Section 3-5A, sponsors Minar, Taylor, Joshi, Well, Austin, the whole council.

Um vehicle noise.

Mood introduce.

Thank you, Rich.

One day I'll remember that.

Let's be honest, probably not.

Good evening, Sergeant Chukon for Corporation Council.

Again, this is a lost uh item from legal department.

This is ordinance number D 2827 26, again, it's introduces limitations on excessive noise caused by motor vehicles.

So essentially the scenario, I think a lot of us has experienced it.

I actually has experienced it just two days ago, and startled me and got my heart racing.

It's it's um targeted to address excessive noise generated by vehicles through engine reving.

Um changes to exhaust system or modified exhaust system, so think of mufflers, and aggressive acceleration.

So when a vehicle goes too far into gear, or too fast rather into gear generates a lot of noise with uh certain noises associated with that behavior.

So that that ordinance specifically tries to regulate or rather discourage bed behavior by making it an ordinance violation fine, so it will go for OVB, similarly to the one that you considered earlier in the day.

So it is it is a fairly small fine for first offense, 100, the second and consequent offense is at 250 dollars.

And um again, this is I think it's it's it's been an issue for quite some time, especially in our core midtown, um, range line, city center, etc.

So this is what it does.

I can go line by line if you like, but this is the kind of a summary of the ordinance.

I would be happy to address questions you have.

I'm just gonna just clarify real quick.

Um as we're gonna get into this into committee, but um for anyone that might be watching, so um a lot of the the glass packs and the things that I see that are out there that are making this noise, they've been intentionally added for that purpose.

Right.

So would someone have to remove those, or would they just keep getting tickets?

How does this really work?

Yeah, so this ordinance is uh basically a disincentive to have them.

So it they're not going to be removed, but they will be ticketed every time we use them.

Every time.

Yeah.

Okay.

And of course, we realize that this ordinance is it's not the easiest to enforce, of course.

So you have to be in the right place and right time.

If for that reason it does not have a decibel reader, because decibel readers are really more uh it's a better enforcement mechanism for noise ordinance.

This is a sustained noise.

Think your parties, your barking dog that's repeatedly barking.

Obviously, if a person that was revving the engine going down mono sees a police officer, probably the behavior will stop immediately.

So that's why it's it that's why it isn't an OVB rather than going through city court.

So the the ordinance is designed to curb the behavior as much as we can.

We understand that it's probably not going to end it entirely.

Okay.

But the but but it's good enough for the officer to have seen this.

I I couldn't understand what you said he has to have the decibel meter, or does it not rely on?

Yeah, yeah.

It's not tied to this one.

So this is behavior, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, okay, got it.

Okay.

And actually, you know, it's an interesting fact that we just discussed the ordinance on uh identification of certain of certain things.

And Jack was here actually, and he gave me a tip to look at Newport Rhode Island.

Apparently, we have a system that is similar to identifying the plate numbers, but it's specifically designed for noise, for noise violation specifically for that.

And apparently it's been very successful according to him.

So maybe it's something to look into in the future, but technology is evolving incredibly fast, and um perhaps the enforcement will be a little bit easier down the road.

All right, thank you.

Is is your comment going to committee?

I mean, is that the anticipation?

I don't know.

I I would vote for this right now because I've sat at Muldoons and it's extremely irritating.

Um however, I think there's just so many questions, and I think I don't feel right.

Uh so I'll probably say I want this.

Perfect.

No problem.

This will go to um uh finance and rules.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Agenda add-on uh items none, other business, property abatements, compliance statement with benefits.

We've got we've got four of them.

There's no action here.

Say that again.

It gets reviewed.

It gets reviewed at the next finance committee meeting.

Okay, perfect.

Um these will all go to finance to be reviewed.

Umliance for cooperative energy services, power marketing, mid-continent independent system operator, MISO, uh Schlage Lock Company, ZP Investments, LLC, and Zotec partners.

Uh Councilor Taylor, in your meeting, if I can't make it, um, because I was mailed this packet with the certifications.

Um I the abatements were for schl Schlaglock, which is now a legion.

And I didn't see transfer language in the country in this abatement.

We're also on year nine or ten.

So it's hardly any abatement at all.

But my question is, you know, they estimated 23 million dollars in salaries, they're at 108 million dollars in salaries.

And I'd have a hard time is that all here local, or is that spread out over all the Legion's assets?

Because it makes now that it's a legion, a much larger company, are we reflecting them world internationally, or are we still saying true to why we did this in the first place nine years ago for the local business that was here?

Those are my my questions regarding this.

Quick note, uh President Schneider, so it's probably actually more for Council Taylor.

Uh we need to send it back to a county within uh by the end of a month.

So that's a that's a deadline.

So it's uh one committee meeting essentially.

Yep.

And I'm not challenging anything in here.

I just don't understand.

And we did develop a tool that all the information gets plugged into.

It's very helpful to address some of those questions.

I'm assuming you have that tool, and yeah, we just need to get that.

Thank you.

So this all those abatement reviews, I think they're called, yeah, will go to finance.

We're required to do them annually.

Excellent.

Um any announcements just another quick announcement.

Please attend our mayor's advisory commission on housing on June 11th, where we will do the final piece of um opticos' deliveries.

So hope to see you there at 9 a.m.

Thursday, June 11th.

City Hall.

Thank you.

Seeing none, uh we are adjourned at 8.48.