Welcome to the Tuesday, June 9th.

Carmel Finance Utilities and Rules Community Committee meeting.

First item then on the agenda is ordinance D-2823-26.

Benjamin, I may need a little bit of help explaining this, but uh we amended the creation of the public infrastructure insurance recovery fund at the last meeting.

This ordinance that requires a public hearing was not noticed with that name change.

So this ordinance uh first we must amend the ordinance to reflect the new fund name, which is the public infrastructure insurance recovery fund.

Then if it passes at a committee today with a positive recommendation, which we approved all the other items related to this ordinance, so I hope it would it'll go back to the council um and then the public hearing will take place.

Did I cover that correctly?

Benjamin Lynn, officer corporation council.

Yes, so it will go back with your proposed amendment.

Uh the first thing that will happen prior to that public hearing is that the council will vote on that amendment.

Once that amendment has been voted upon and if approved, then the public hearing can take place with that uh with that updated information.

Thank you.

And it's all related to properly noticing the ordinance and just making sure we are transparent on how we approached it.

Correct.

Yes, sir.

Um is there any discussion related to ordinance or any questions for Zach or Benjamin about ordinance D-2823-26?

If it's helpful, I can I can put the proposed version A amendment here to be put on the screen.

Yes, sir, and that was included in your packet.

So as you can see, the recommended amendments are just simply that name change throughout the ordinance.

Pull it down a little bit.

You can see it also has it in the title as well.

So just a very simple uh changes wherever it mentions the old fund name, it mentions the new fund name.

I changed it to the new fund name.

That's it.

Um Mr.

Chair, I move that we um send this back ordinance D-2823-26 to city council with a positive recommendation.

And so you would um send back the amended version.

Amended version.

Proposed amended version.

We accept that uh change that we're sending back specifically the amended version to reflect the uh public infrastructure insurance recovery fund since you second it.

Yeah, yes, sir.

Okay.

We will then call Mr.

Chair.

Do we need to vote on the amendment first?

Yes, please.

Okay.

Motion is approved to amend.

Now is that now um yes, sir.

Move to approve.

Ordinance D-28, 23-26 is will be sent to the full council with as amended with a positive recommendation.

Next item on the agenda is ordinance D-28-27-26.

An ordinance uh of the common council of the city of Carmel, Indiana at uh adding chapter six, Article 5, Section 6 through uh-85 to the Carmel City Code.

Amending chapter 3, Article 2, Section 3-58.

Sponsors are counselors Minar, Taylor, Joshi Real, and Austin.

The synopsis is this ordinance per uh prohibits excessive vehicle noise.

Um is there any uh presentation from the administration on this item?

Um you have the um suggested language in the packet.

Um if we uh Benjamin, if you don't mind just going over the key points.

Okay, so this proposed ordinance um regulates noise, particular noise from vehicles.

Um it addresses behavior, so it doesn't measure it in decibels.

We currently have multiple areas under city code that already address noise issues within the city.

We have our general uh noise ordinance, and that general noise ordinance already regulates it potentially there is a level of overlap here, but the enforcement side of it is is trickier.

Um it requires it has time frames within that ordinance and it requires an officer with a decibel meter reader to uh within has to go above a certain threshold within a certain area um six times within a minute within three minutes or um more than over collectively over a minute within three minutes.

Um it then has regulations in the night time for amplified noise and then business related noises.

That's kind of what our comprehensive noise ordinance covers.

We have also under the animal care ordinance, we have uh nuisance noise related to um when dogs are barking or creating excessive noise, that's an overlap as well.

But we have something specific that can target there.

Probably the closest on point is 871, which is like where we regulated vehicle brakes and it was very targeted to a specific modification on specific vehicles creating a specific noise.

Is that like J braking with semi-tractors?

Exactly.

Yep.

So this is this is more akin to that.

This is targeting specifically um excessive reving or um uh aftermarket mufflers that have been added to exhaust systems to make um louder noise than what was anticipated.

Um this is a tool by which to cut down really on what is a problematic nuisance, um, especially in high populated areas.

It can be tricky for officers as well with decibel meter readers in those highly populated areas where you have a higher level of ambient noise for for that to be measured.

So this is a tool by which any officer um uh can go and if they see one of the violations that occurs and there's a list of them, um, it will give them the the opportunity to speak to the violator to hopefully just correct the behavior and educate.

Um if not, then this is slightly softer um than what we have in other ordinances.

This is sent to the ordinance violation bureau, which we spoke a lot about at the um prior council meetings and and committee meetings, um, where there's an opportunity for them to pay the fine, not have to go to court um specifically for this.

Um I believe it the first violation is a hundred dollars, and I want to say the second one is two hundred and fifty dollars.

Um and then if they don't pay or they deny, then it comes to our office and we get to review to whether we take that to court and file uh um an ordinance violation there.

Um so there's a bit of flexibility here.

It's a it's a it's a tool by which to enable um being it really uh um a good neighbor on the street um to um being uh caring about the nuisance that your vehicle and and the noise that you can create from that vehicle, and this is a tool to change that that behavior.

Discussion.

Councillor Alright, thank you.

Um I'm glad I saw Chief uh come because I've got a few questions.

So I've I've taken a couple of calls regarding this based on the um I think the article probably that was in the current and a couple of things.

There is some concern from some legitimate um motorcycle and car enthusiast that um he the the gent one gentleman that I spoke to most recently was concerned about rev matching, uh which is a new term, and um it it but basically as he's down shifting, there might be a little spike in noise, and he's saying, I don't want to get in trouble, you know, for doing that.

Well, I'm I'm I'm going over the ordinance with him, and the language that I like is um you know, excessive, and I just had it now uh ex um I see.

So now of course I can't find it.

But anyway, uh the the adjectives that you used excessive engine reving, modified exhaust system, aggressive acceleration, uh excessive vehicle noise, those all seem to be to me um outside of normal operation or nuisance or obnoxious, and so I just want to make sure that we're on solid ground that if I'm an officer, you know, and I can and I see this that everybody is on the same page as what this looks like.

Um and I'm absolutely a hundred percent in favor of this.

I can hear some of those.

I've I've now got a little list going of the color of vehicle, the kind of vehicle, and um they're awesome looking cars, but they are noisy, and they're revving them on purpose, or the motorcycles stopped in front of Muldoons, and when they take off, they are just screaming out of there.

That's the kind of thing we're going after, correct?

That's correct.

I mean, there's obviously going to be some level of as there always is, but especially with this, there's going to be a level of opposite discretion to use a discretion based on the facts that are that are before them to have that conversation.

You are correct, we have um so on the excessive engine revving, it is uh repetitive or sustained revving.

Um the practical sense, I I don't know enough about the the shifting revving aspect of it, but um Main Street is not terribly long, and I don't know how many times you're gonna have to shift between gears um within within that um and if it is part and parcel of the regular noise that it makes without being an off the market um addition um because the exhaust system refers to it being modified so admitted by the system, so it needs to be higher than that admitted by the system originally installed by the manufacturer.

Yeah.

And he was actually making the point that there is some um original equipment that is also noisy as well.

So I guess I'm just concerned about our officers.

Um I hear a lot about well, it's not clear or whatever.

So I just want to make sure.

I I guess I'd be curious how are we going to uh train our officers or what are the instructions going to be that I'm interested in?

And then the other thing is that I think we have to address is I did witness a uh what I would call a police chase of um two cars, lights and sirens chasing a motobike.

You know, I mean, obviously we passed that ordinance and they were after them, but they got away.

You know, there was no way a car was going to catch these kids on that motorcycle, that electric motorcycle, once they hopped on the Monon, they were gone.

So what are the what are the odds that we're gonna be successful in issuing tickets to these motorcycles and that we're gonna catch them and that they're not gonna run and all that business, because I only saw it once, maybe it's happening ten times.

And then what happens with correcting maybe the equipment, do I am I required to correct it?

Do I just promise not to use it?

I want to know about that.

So some of those kind of issues, because I think we're dumping on you.

Um and you're the one that's gonna be stuck with making sure we're all happy.

Uh and I just didn't know if you had any experience with the J braking when we passed that.

I think that was 12 years ago.

Um, you know, is that effective?

Is that working?

Does you know are we are we stopping J braking?

So all those all those things went through my mind.

Yeah.

Um so a few things.

So kind of as Benjamin mentioned, this is certainly a quality of life issue that I hear about quite often, something I've heard about quite a bit in the past two and a half years.

Uh so I appreciate the the city's uh effort to you know codify this and make it so that our officers can have some enforcement.

I think to kind of go through, I was writing down some of your questions uh to go through the training officers.

Uh Benjamin and his team do a great job of issuing you know legal updates and they're not afraid to come to roll calls and train all of our officers.

So I think uh between him and and some of our training team and our supervisors, I think we can definitely uh put some some measures in place to make this ordinance successful.

Um I think that uh one of the things I talked to Benjamin beforehand, one of the things I like about this ordinance is that it does provide it's not so uh specific uh like the noise ordinances.

It allows it does give us some discretion.

Uh and so I I think our officers are pretty reasonable.

I don't think they're gonna go out there and hammer every single, you know, late model vehicle with an with a loud exhaust with you know tickets, you know, until they can't do it anymore.

I think uh I think it's primarily on the education component.

Um and I think you know, obviously, as Benjamin said, the the citations do go to the OVB, so you know, kind of that lesser standard of uh of where those will will end up.

Uh and then to address the thing on the eMoto, uh, yeah, the um we've had to certainly adapt uh here in the past few weeks as we've taken a more aggressive stance on the emoto devices.

Uh our officers are have been out there, you know, getting after it, trying to make sure that those that ordinance is being um followed, uh, but we're not in the business of chasing kids on bikes.

I don't think that's safe.

And I don't think that's the intent.

So we've had to adapt a little bit.

We've uh we have resources, we have drones, we have things like that.

Chances are if they're riding any moto device, you know, through the city, you know, on Thursday night, they're probably gonna be out on Friday night.

Maybe we'll have a better chance to catch them then.

So you know, we have to act a little bit reasonably when it comes to that stuff.

But but we have had you know quite a bit of success with those as well.

We get you know, multiple times a week we're you know able to stop those those e-moto devices and either you know educate them potentially uh you know cite them, uh, and then we've even gone as far as is towing some of them.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

Counselor or councilor Minor?

I'll take that compliment Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Um this is actually a question for Benjamin, if I may.

Uh like Councillor Orrell was talking about, I I actually received a few emails and phone calls from constituents in my district who are saying, well, it it specifically states mid town, uh city center, Main Street, but it doesn't say anything about the areas outside of those districts.

Does that do is this all encompassing?

I mean, is there language that we need to add?

Because I one of one neighbors specifically and the Spring Creek neighborhood has a young man who consistently violates this actual if this were to pass this actual ordinance, and are we applying this all over the city?

Um because the language to me, and I don't necessarily disagree, doesn't necessarily state that it's outside of those areas.

Does everybody read it that way as well, or is am I off base here?

It's in there in the ordinance, yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

I mean, so it was a good catch, but I don't know how my fellow counselors feel that Benjamin, I don't know how legally does it cover everything outside of those specific areas on lines 16 and 17.

Which line?

Sorry?

16 and 17, where it says um unnecessary or unusual loud noises near places?

Yep.

So um the recycles are incorporated in into the ordinance, but the ordinance itself is drafted to be citywide.

This would be applicable citywide.

So the just the whereas just happens to call out where the highest concentration of issues have been reported.

Exactly, including but not limited to is kind of its reference.

It doesn't have the not limited to, but it's um that this the reason that the council is doing this is because there are issues that have come to our attention in these particular areas.

Just because the issues have come to attention in those particular areas doesn't mean that the ordinance is it might be targeted to address those issues in those areas, but should they um and they can spread beyond those areas, the ordinance itself does not limit its its enforcement.

It would be within the city's corporate limits.

Thank you.

I appreciate the clarification.

Thank you.

Counselor Green?

None?

If not, uh thank you for counselor Austin for joining the finance committee tonight.

Had a few questions, Councilor Alson?

Yeah.

If there's no one else on the committee for a sound jump in front of you guys.

Go ahead, sir.

Um I got a couple questions.

First, um, I appreciate what you said about officer discretion versus writing the raw law too narrowly with you know doing it just based by a sound decibel meter, uh, which I understand.

But we do have another noise ordinance that's already on the books that um while this helps complement that could someone be cited under either one.

How does how do those kind of interact together when it comes to um the the previous noise ordinances written about distance, you know what I'm talking about?

Sure.

So it's um again, I think that would be officer discretion in relation and also prosecutorial discretion as well.

And and if the officer writes it under both as a belts and suspenders because they don't know necessarily which would apply, um, that would then obviously come to our office uh for enforcement related to it.

Um it doesn't mean we're giving them two tickets under each ordinance, right?

No, okay.

I mean it it would be uh you would choose the most applicable would be our advice.

Um but at the same time, sometimes uh officers can use their discretion to to issue both to the extent that it might have the facts might better apply to one versus the other with a with a facto-based analysis as to whether it applies, and then for the discretion of the prosecutor to make a determination as to which one to take forward.

Uh and then I have another question, is that okay if I okay?

Um how this kind of interacts with state law.

So and I am just doing internet research, so if you know more than me, please let me know here.

Um but I did see that some there's some state laws that already ban some of the modified mufflers.

Does that are we duplicating that?

And if so, is that okay?

Is it okay to duplicate the state law on that instance?

And then there is also something unless I'm incorrect that carved out or exempted um registered antique classic cars from some of the muffler modifications and noise ordinances.

So if they were exempt under the state law, would they would we be unable to enforce a registered classic antique car uh under our ordinance?

So where you have stepping back for for for everyone, where um state law already, this is the point that you're making, already regulates on a particular topic, that would preempt the city from regulating to the extent that they are exactly the same, right?

In in this particular instance, I believe uh the state law uh regulation.

I'd have to take a closer look at it.

Um saying it's related specifically to the equipment that is what is allowed on and what is not allowed?

Yeah, I'll send this to you, but if you could check that out, specifically what I'm most interested in is if they're exempting um the antique cars, would that prohibit our ability to um uh not exempt that as well?

I just wondering that question.

So my understanding here is um it's the uh sound related versus the actual equipment, right?

So it's the regulating of the noise that it creates.

Um but we can take a closer look at that for sure.

I am supportive, I just wanted to make sure that we set reasonable expectations.

You're raising that.

Yeah.

Additional discussion from the committee.

Um couple things I wanted to highlight.

One is it's public property only.

Correct.

So if a person was parked on private property, um and they were creating these noise issues, then another section of the of related noise-related ordinances would have to apply.

That's correct.

Okay, yeah.

Um lines uh 64 through 66.

It specifically says um shall cause to be operated any public street, alley, parking lot, or public property.

That's the the limitation.

And we I had a question from constituents about art mobilia, so that would be covered under vehicles participating in a city permanent event that would be correct.

Okay, and then for the public.

Did you guys were you guys able to pull up the law?

Look it up.

Yeah, okay, great.

Um for the public, I think it's important to discuss about not only officer, uh, if you just you talked about it a little bit, but there's officer discretion, but then also when these ordinance violations are sent to your office and prosecuted, there's also a second look from the city as to whether or not the ordinance is enforced.

That's correct.

And the and the fines are applied.

That's correct.

Yep.

So there's not an automatic um uh path to court.

Uh, once the OVB ticket is issued, there's a date set on the ticket that says that they must appear before the ordinance violation bureau clerk, which is the city clerk by X time.

We then get notified if they do not appear and do not pay.

They can also appear and deny, right?

And we'll get notified of those as well.

Um sometimes that's actually helpful on the denial side because there's usually an explanation that goes with it, and we have contact information beyond just the address to work with.

Um, but then from there we can take a look at it.

Um we have access to Axon, which is the um both the the dash cam and the um body cam.

Uh we have the uh any report that is being generated.

We can also speak to the officer and kind of find out a little bit more about what's going on in that particular situation.

Then what we have to do if we decide yes, we're going to take this forward, um, is we have to prepare a summons and complaint.

And then that gets filed within the court, and then that has to be served, and then they'll have their initial hearing, which they can then deny.

And at that point they deny, we then gain more direct contact information.

And typically I would say my practice is when someone denies there's typically a reason why they've denied, and I'd I'd like to be able to have the opportunity to discuss with them what their theory is, and I'll explain what our theory is of the case.

And then there's opportunities even after that.

We have deferral, which is an option that will be available here, which is a means by which a violator can forego a judgment by entering into a time-based deferral that uh foregoes um court costs, and it's set for a time period where if they do not commit the same violation within that time period, the city will then dismiss the ordinance violation that's pending within the court.

Um, and so there is no judgment related there.

If they do violate in that time period, the original offense is deemed admitted.

Um, a judgment is obtained, and we'll also move forward with the next violation as well.

So it's a little bit of um a double-edged sword if you're a continuing violator, but if you are someone that violates once and you like, oop, no, I know that, and I'm not going to do it again, um, then it's a fantastic tool to be able to avoid a judgment and to almost uh always have less uh fine um in the cost side from court fees and a fine that would apply.

Um so that that's probably more information that you were looking for, but it's a process, right?

And and so the first step here is having that uh giving police officers the opportunity to be able to engage probable cause to engage with individuals that they believe are violating a city ordinance and to have a conversation about changing that behavior.

So you know, we have the best police force in the state and not the nation, and first of all, you know, I truly believe that our officers have a culture of trying to change behaviors versus trying to hammer people with fines and penalties and ordinance violations.

I'm just saying these things to sort of provide some relief for the public who may be concerned or listening, and then two, there's prosecutoral prosecutorial review, and then three, they also have their ability a day in court if they believe that they were truly not violating the ordinance.

They absolutely do.

Yeah.

Um talking about the practice.

Um I obviously I sponsor of this ordinance and I um support it, but um one thing I wanted to talk about is enforcement.

Um really for this to be enforced, it's and we do have a lot of officers in our downtown and our midtown, it's really gonna most likely have to be witnessed by an officer, or is there a way for enforcement that could take place by a complaint?

Could you go over that, please?

Yeah, in in this instance, um it would be my strong preference that it is witnessed by an officer.

Um that doesn't necessarily that it means that it has to be the case.

Um the burden of of proof here is preponderance of the evidence, which is more likely than not.

So if the officer was to obtain additional evidence somewhere else through witness statements and so forth, um, there are a lot of burdens there though.

I mean, our officers uh speaking with the chief, they undergo uh hearing tests, and we know that they are within that normal range of hearing, and um you know, with when it comes to your particular witness that you may have.

We have we have situations that occur where an officer doesn't necessarily always witness the violation, although it's ideal.

A dog bite, for example.

The officer's not going to be there typically when a dog bite occurs, right?

And so when that dog bite occurs, they're going to look for evidence that a dog bite has occurred and they're gonna um whether it's the marks on the victims or the statements of the victims or witnesses passers by.

Um that is that would still be applicable here in order for the officer to be able to then move forward and issue the ticket.

Of course, I mean but there could be a possibility where a citizen witness it, maybe multiple multiple times, reports it, and if law enforcement is able to find additional evidence related to the violation of this ordinance, that the that the uh there could still be a fine or corrective action taken to try to change the behavior.

I believe that it is a possibility, yes.

Um it is it's not the ideal path on a prosecution.

Um ideally, I would I would want the officer to be the witness, but yes, it is possible.

I mean, the the problems associated with that, you uh would be um tracking down the alleged offender, yeah, right, and information related to that, but potentially as taking down a license plate, right?

Right and information related to that, but potentially it's taking down a license plate, right?

And and then it is um you will have a uh the whether or not the witness statement is credible and doing an analysis on that on that basis.

Um I I think you know what this is seeking is a little bit more akin to um neighbors that have barking dogs.

I I think where there is tip it's typically not going to be the one-time offense where they where the dog is being from a different city and being walked through a park and barking excessively, right?

It's going to be a repeat offender that keeps coming back and they come on on the so I think the more information that can be provided to police, then um the easier it will be for them to be able to catch them in the act, but to your point, um I'll put it in approved preponderance of the evidence, so it is possible that a ticket could be issued at the office's discretion based upon the credible witness states that are provided or other additional evidence that comes to uh the office's hands.

Thank you, Benjamin.

Those were just uh my questions.

Any uh any other discussion or questions from the committee.

Councilor Austin, did you have anything else?

Thank you.

Would the chair um entertain a motion?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Uh I would make a motion to uh send so first of all, I guess I want to just start out by saying uh thank you.

I think I think our citizens, our residents are very appreciative of this.

Everybody wanted to make sure we were doing it the right way, and that we were making sure we understood what we were doing, and that it is enforceable.

So now that we're doing this, we've got to see a reduction in the behavior.

So that that will be my goal, and I certainly will will try and help if I see something or the vehicles that I see on a routine basis.

I'm gonna call you chief.

Okay.

So having said that, I would make a motion to return this to council uh without amendment um as written and recommend approval.

Second.

We have a motion by council royal, second by counselor green.

Please vote.

Motion carries.

I will just want to say we will review the concerns raised by Council Alson and to the extent there are any things that we continue to have concerns with with duplicity within state law.

Uh we will suggest a a recommended amendment come um.

I support the more I wasn't trying to derive.

I supported just asking.

We appreciate the feedback, and we'll take a look at it closer just to make sure there um isn't uh any overlap.

No, Council Austin, those are good questions.

We don't want to be preempted by Indian estate law when we could have fixed the ordinance before we pass it.

So thank you.

Next on our agenda, our annual review of our property abatements in compliance with the statement of benefits.

Um we have the compliance tracking for the four abatements, only four that we have throughout the city of Carmel.

The Alliance for Cooperative Energy Services Power Mark Power Marketing LLC, otherwise known as ACES, Mid-Continent Continent Independent System Operator, Inc., MISO, Schlage Lock Company LLC, ZP Investments LLC, and Zotec Partners LLC, which are under the same abatement.

We've uh been provided the compliance tracking sheet for each of these items.

First, I would um ask that if there's um any concerns about any of these abatements um from our CFO and in the administration nothing has been brought to my attention with any concerns.

Questions from the committee regarding the uh four abatements we um we review each of them.

Uh it's very easy.

You have the requirements at the top, commitments at the top, the commitment year, um, and then um what percentages they have met related to their commitments or retained jobs, percentages salary retained jobs, percentage of additional jobs, percentage of salary of additional jobs, percentage of real uh real property investment, and percentage of personal property um investment.

Questions for Zach related to any of these items.

Seeing none, I believe Benjamin.

This is uh different than approving an ordinance.

So the uh if we if the committee agrees, the motion should state that we recommend we state that we believe they're in compliance or recommend uh maintaining the abatement.

Only one I saw was um, and maybe it's not maybe they're not in red just because it they haven't been through, but it the only one that I saw where there was a number of them, though they're not in red, which I don't quite understand, though they hadn't been hitting their percentage of additional jobs, salary, additional jobs, and personal property and investment is ACEs, but that's a recently new um abatement.

Um otherwise, and they're not in red.

I don't I don't know why, but the percentages are lower, so I'm assuming they just need time for hiring.

Counselor Taylor?

Yes, sir.

Um ACEs, and um since that's one more recent, and when we um you know had them come present to us and uh talk about kind of what it meant for those.

Do you have any more personal details or talking to them or just kind of what's beyond we see in the dashboard or just to those conversations are those conversations with you or they held with Nick?

Yeah, I I think they are uh it's either Nick or or Henry in terms of from an economic development perspective.

I received no feedback from staff, any negative feedback from staff.

I was um having done this for many years.

We're I was um to me that is easily explainable.

Um and so I didn't have a problem with that when everything else is on the right trajectory.

So in my mind, there's no reason to disrupt anything that's currently in place, but that's just my opinion.

Do you have a motion then, sir?

If there's no further discussion, I would make a motion that um that we we send this back to full council having uh that we did our due diligence to review and everything all of the abatements that are currently in place appear to be working as um as intended, and that uh that we do not remove the abatement.

We got a motion by council Royal, a second by councilor Minar.

Any further discussion?

If not, please vote.

Motion carries.

Next, um, though it was not on the agenda, um Zach just wanted to provide a brief update about the ERP implementation, selection and implementation.

Nine slides.

And one of them is a cover slide, so it doesn't even count.

So eight.

Just want to make sure you're presenting this for the public record.

I we can try.

You remove the pretty picture in the smaller fonts, you probably could.

But so uh thank you, uh Mr.

Chairman for the opportunity to talk to you tonight.

Um first few slides again, just kind of reiterate why we're we're going down this path.

Um so as Kirst and I were talking about this earlier, the the first three are the what, why, and how.

Um so what is project cornerstone?

It's essentially our opportunity to modernize the core financial and administrative assistance systems through the implementation of an integrated ERP uh platform.

And you know, with our project here, we'll be cleaning up outdated systems, processes, and replacing them with modern efficient uh modern systems and more efficient processes.

Um why do we need this over time?

Several of our legacy systems have become outdated and uh hard to support.

We were talking about we we use something for procure for creating purchase orders now that was created by an employee that retired 12 years ago.

That was the IT tool was created by somebody that retired 12 years ago.

I couldn't tell you when that person created it.

Um access database.

Yeah, it is older and homegrown systems are more vulnerable to cybersecurity attacks, modern systems reduce risk and approve improve efficiency.

Our existing system does not share data across different platforms, and so there's a lot of manual entry paper being moved from one department to the finance department and back.

Um and then finally, better access to our data just means better uh reporting for decision makers such as yourself, yourselves.

Um how are we going to measure the success by reduced manual work and uh uh reduced duplicative systems, uh improved financial tracking, transparency, reporting capabilities, uh higher confidence in the data that we pass out, better stewardship of taxpayer dollars, and just more reliable supporters supportable systems for our IT department.

So, in terms of status, um, since we've I've last presented on this, we have hired our our project manager.

Uh he started about a month ago.

Uh we have selected our ERP system, and we wish to go with workday.

Um we would be buying that through an omni the Omnia Cooperative Agreement, and on there, iron brick is the licensed reseller of work day.

And so, as uh as we move forward, you might hear of an iron brick contract.

That is our work day, that would be our workday contract.

We also want to go with uh you you can choose uh that same company to do the implementation, or you could choose some sort of uh uh authorized uh vendor to do the implementation.

We actually want to go directly with workday.

It we just believe that the accountability uh will be improved by by you know one, whether you want to say one uh back to pat or one throat to choke.

We have one uh one group of people to hold uh uh accountable at work day.

What is included with this?

And and so sorry, uh you can see the font.

Okay, I guess uh there are several HR-related and finance related modules here.

Um, and I'm happy to go through these one by one if you want, but essentially uh but I'll I'll go high level first and tell me if you want me to get in the weeds here.

Uh human capital management, we don't have position tracking today.

Uh I I think Councilor Warell asked me last year to like run a report for vacant positions, and I gave you like a really weird answer.

Like we can go out and ask department heads like what they have vacant, but there is no report that shows vacant positions.

We don't track vacant positions.

Our system doesn't do that.

Um we'd have integrations here with with uh for for benefits, for payroll processing, uh recruiting, talent optimization.

I'm gonna skip a few and keep talking about some of the HR related ones.

Time tracking, and so uh whether we're talking about the the actual time sheet function and then the workflows for approvals, but then also tracking time according to which project somebody's working on.

Um absence management, one where essentially today a lot of these things are done by either side Excel spreadsheets, uh email, things like that, but this gets all of our HR and payroll needs into one system.

Uh going back through the list to talk about the uh the finance related ones, uh core financials.

I mean, that is the heart of the accounting system.

Uh the financial uh planning module is functionally the the budget development and budget management module.

Right now, what we have in in um Pintimation or Central Square essentially just is for reporting purposes.

You can't do analytics in there, it's just once you've once you've chosen a number, go put it in there.

But it doesn't help you get to the right number.

Um the expenses module, second from the bottom is that like uh employee expense reporting, so like travel reimbursements, things like that, and then procurement uh counselor Taylor.

This is what we were kind of joking about a minute ago.

Our our um one of our apps now that we use for procurement or purchasing system was built uh in a Microsoft Access database type system at at least 12 years ago, but I'm not sure how long before that.

So these are all the modules.

There's 12 total.

I think in total there's about almost twice of these that we are twice as many that we could have selected, but these are the core ones that we feel like we need the most.

Payroll data is one where I I'm I'm not sure at this point how we get our data out of the payroll or existing ADP system and into the new system, and so we might need some help with that.

Obviously, we won't we won't sign up for any help that we don't need, but I just I won't know till we get there.

So the the known costs at this point in time are that uh 2.2 million.

My funding request is uh is a $2 million appropriation transfer from the general fund, and then um through talking to utilities, uh you know, their fair share of the above numbers is uh $350,000.

We're replacing their accounting system as well as part of this, and so I would have an available budget of $2.35 to cover uh 2.2 million of known costs.

Um there might be some more costs.

Uh I you know, I can't at this point I cannot guarantee that I I won't be back ever asking for some more uh funding, but right now I think I have you know that it's I need 2.2 million, and uh I've I have a 150,000 buffer for uh other costs.

There's a lot of numbers on this next slide, but I but I really kind of like this one.

And so this looks at the ongoing licensing costs, and so everything to the if you see the red circle or the red oval up there, the columns to the left of that are what we're currently paying for.

And so we currently pay for ADP for payroll for for all city employees.

The utilities department uses Great Plains for their accounting.

Superion is technically the name of the company that provides Central Square, also known as Intimation, Parks uses QuickBooks, uh, the Bond Bank, which is operated out of my office, uses uh uses QuickBooks as well.

And so these are our known licensing costs today, and you can kind of see they range from uh let's see, the 2026 estimate is 295,000, um, and then growing to 345,000 uh over the next 10 years.

And so the the what I've circled in blue there, their costs, and and they break it down, their ongoing cost into two buckets.

The license plus training.

A lot of the training is front loaded in the first year, but then there's some ongoing training each year funded after that.

Essentially, we're looking at roughly about 30,000 a year more for this newer robust system with a lot more features than what we were getting out of the five systems that we were paying for in the past.

And so the again, the blue is the total license cost.

And just to clarify, the prior slide was the one time.

This is the ongoing.

The last column represents the differences, and so and that is basically that what's the difference between the the new total and the current total.

You'll see the first two years, it's it's higher, and that is because we're paying for licenses for the old system and licenses for the new system.

But then after that, uh, you know, starting in 2028, you have this uh we just we're essentially paying 27,000 more for this more robust system, uh growing to about 38,000 more by the end of a 10-year contract.

I should mention that you know I what's being proposed is a 10-year contract, but I would see this as a solution that should last the city uh at least 15 years, maybe 20, maybe longer than than that.

Uh Workday is a very new and modern system, and I don't think it's going to I I think we'll be able to get a lot of useful life out of it.

Uh we'll have to pay for licensing cost after 10 years, but I think it's money well spent and and that'll stop there.

Let me go to the last slide here, and that is just what I see as the next steps.

And so next week at council, I'm asking for the creation of the ERP implementation fund.

Um that's the same kind of fund I was floating.

The idea, not an official ordinance form last year, but had floated that draft.

Um I do can uh this is meant to be a one-time fund.

Um I've essentially got sunsetting language in that uh two years out once the implementation's done.

Um there would be three requests at council the new fund, the transfer of two million to the uh from the general fund to this fund, and then the appropriation of that two million, and then um essentially uh once uh uh it once council is okay with that.

Um next stop will be BPW for review review and approval of that uh workday iron brick contract.

Um we'll get started right away.

Uh we've already started on on our end, and um we have an anticipated go live of next summer.

Questions for Zach Councillor Alson.

I think I agree with this just asking this because you know sometimes people ask these questions.

Um looking at the modules here, you know, you mentioned ADP as one that you know you thought about keeping, but they're growing up their cost.

Some larger private companies will use workday, but then for whatever reason, keep some other platforms for some of these, and the reasoning they'll say is the difference between this is pretty good at it to this is the best at doing this one thing, whether it's um you know, beeline for entering workers or Coupa for procurement or Kronos for time tracking, they they'll have like five different contracts.

Um you are not going to come back to us and say, hey, you know, we were happy with this, but hey, this one platform is really good at this one thing, we need to add this on top of there.

No, you you're exactly right.

Um one of the things that workday does kind of pride themselves in is their ability to uh kind of be agnostic on some of these modules, and and just like you're saying, if if you're happy with ADP, they are set up to connect directly and easily with uh other modern state-of-the-art modules like that.

Um I think for us, this was we are paying so much for this ADP contract because we've not managed it very well over the years, and it was just set to auto renew year after year after year with uh with an adjustment that was never uh uh negotiated.

I don't think there's any one of these systems that we are so tied to today that we would really want to stick with.

We are getting better at ADP.

It was not initially implemented very well, but again, just because what we're paying for it, we we like the idea of switching over to work day.

The only major system that uh is not included here uh is the city's um city works contract uh system which is which is more of a like a uh uh a job order management uh yeah like a uh a job order in terms of this asset needs this maintenance, you're putting in a a work order for that.

Um I don't know that work day has a good answer to to uh to that tool um and and nor have we decided whether we want to stick with it or not, but right now we would completely replace all of these and not be coming back asking to we change our mind, let's put ADP back in.

So even if you're like, well, Coupa's a little bit better, you're like we're not gonna grab another contract for some one of these other platforms just for that reason.

No, I it and it it's funny because like some of these things there might be something that's more state-of-the-art marginally better, but but for some of these things, I mean, we're we're going from paper to or or Excel to actually a system that does it.

So I I think uh I think just having this tool will will knock our socks off.

One thing I really do like ADP is very known for secure for people's information, which is really important.

So I just uh want to real quickly um uh pass on kudos to your team, and this is this is great.

I appreciate the update.

I think this is a solid plan, and I said this before, but the um I I asked some of our consultants who I've worked with for years and years, and um I trust, and they said this is a good thing, good team to implement it.

So I know it won't go smoothly um and I wish you luck, but uh you know, thank you for being so organized and and presenting a great plan and you know I I think we need it.

I I I appreciate that, counselor.

It will be a very large lift.

I mean, yes, workday will be doing a lot of work with this implementation, but the the finance department, the HR department, the IT department.

I mean, it'll be a heavy lift for all of our all of our teams.

Counselor Minor.

I echo everything uh counselor said, and I just want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to sit in the meetings and be a part of the discussion to get through this process.

Learned a lot, and I just want to wish you all the best when it when it happens.

I'm excited to see.

One of the things I think I'm most excited to see is the amount of time savings and and the um I don't know what the word is I want to use.

Um becoming more efficient and and not wasting hours of the day doing paper and pencil and I'm looking forward to that.

I one, I appreciate your support, and and two, uh you're exactly right.

I mean, the the savings uh or the costs that I've shown here don't even consider the the time savings yet.

And and um, you know, I we will have people, especially in finance department, who who you know spend hours a week on on tasks today that in the in the new uh once implemented you spend 20 hours a week manually implementing it or manually keying this in.

That's gonna become a five-minute job going forward.

And so uh for us it's an opportunity.

What you know what where can we step up at finance department?

What where are kind of blind spots where we uh could do a better job on risk management or or uh you know looking at purchases before they're made as opposed to after they're made, things like that.

I I think there's a lot of opportunity for us to step up our game with a better system.

Good, and maybe there's a module that they have that they can actually track that information.

Yep.

Who knows?

Thank you.

Yep, thanks.

Thank you, Zach.

Um I was actually having a conversation today with the county commissioner who long been long time in the industry and is the president of a board of commissioners for one of the fastest growing counties outside of Hamilton County.

And he made he he said something that stuck with me is that we we shouldn't be afraid of property tax reform.

Why?

Because uh just like Governor Daniels did with state government, it's in a it's in a push us to become more and more efficient, and this is a great first step.

I'm actually supportive of the um ERP implementation fund.

Um I think it's a very transparent way for us uh from the council standpoint to be able to track the expenditures versus uh buried in individual budget.

So I I appreciate that.

Um I do have one important question.

So I saw that um my question originally without seeing the uh systems that were gonna be replaced was um how is Carmel Clay Parks fit into this?

Um because of pentamation's lack of reporting and uh uh providing um reporting financial reporting for a managerial purpose like a sm a business would uh they had to implement um QuickBooks.

How what is the conversation been like with uh Director Clitzing?

Are they still gonna be able to get the uh because of the cost recovery mandates uh related to the Monon Community Center Fund 109 um, etc.

Are they gonna be able to get the reporting out of this that they need to properly manage their cost recovery mandate at uh the Monon Community Center?

Yeah, uh great question and you're spot on.

Um they they do use a a secondary system.

Um they have to pay for a secondary bookkeeper, actually, even just because the the interaction with uh the current system is is so slow they cannot get the real-time revenue feedback of of how things are trending more uh quickly enough.

Uh right now they are completely uh on board with with using this new accounting system.

We're going to uh uh what what will be slightly different for them compared to other departments is that uh their employees are not city employees and we will not be migrating them to uh to work day for payroll purposes.

They'll continue to use their current payroll tool.

Um maybe at some point down the road they would migrate over, but at least for now, I mean that there are completely different rules about their leave time, all of those things that just didn't make sense for us to take that on at the same time.

But they will be using uh uh workday and and getting the time.

Which modules, just the financial reporting section, because they they use ADP too, but as a separate technically municipal corporation, basically they have their own contract with ADP, etc.

I think they use they use UKG or uh if they use ADP2, it's it's it's then a second one, but I I know they use uh UKG for some of their payroll purposes.

Uh in some instances they may be firewalled off because of you mentioning different um whether it be different methods of accounting or just a completely different uh business unit, but they will be able to use our system and and do the type of uh reporting that what they currently do.

Yeah, because the at the time the clerk treasurer now the uh controller's office is res where their financial reporting goes through.

So um I just wanted to make sure that they're gonna have the tools needed to make business decisions they need to make related to the Monon Community Center.

Yep, we're we're we're trying to be as holistic in this and uh you know utilities, bond bank, parks, some of those that are often you know not quite uh uh aligned with the general fund and way we operate the general fund.

We're we're trying to include all of them.

Okay, yes, that was my only question.

Any other questions seeing none?

Uh is there a motion to adjourn?

Second.

We will adjourn at 6 37 p.m.

it looks like thank you.