Before I begin the official meeting, I'd like to welcome our new city manager for um our very first public meeting.

So we just want to welcome Janine Jordan.

Uh she's been here for a couple weeks, but we're excited for her to be here, and so just want to wish her a warm welcome.

Uh council meetings are live streamed on the city's YouTube channel.

I now call the January 6th, 2026 regular council meeting to order.

All councillors are present.

Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

I cleared the leaders to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic over which it stands one nation under dollars in Justice Strong.

Please read the consent minute approval titles.

Approving the minutes of the December 16th, 2025 regular council meeting, the December 16th, 2025 executive session, the December 30th, 2025 special council meeting, and the December 30th, 2025 executive session.

Thank you.

The chair would entertain a motion to approve the consent minute action agenda items just read.

Move by Councillor Bond, seconded by Councillor Haskins.

Any abstentions?

With all counselors voting aye, the motion passes.

The chair would entertain a motion to approve by minute action the January 6th 2026 bills and claims as audited by City Manager Jordan.

So moved.

Moved by Councillor Pollock, seconded by Councillor Jensen.

Any abstentions?

Please cast your vote.

With all counselors voting aye, the motion passes.

As stated in the rules of the council, the mayor and vice mayor are elected by the city council uh from their members.

An informal and non-binding straw poll is taken by secret ballot at this set at this session.

The votes are turned over to the city attorney and the city clerk to count and announce those results.

At the first official council meeting of the new year, the council formally votes on the new mayor and vice mayor.

Therefore, the chair would entertain a motion to formally select um a mayor for the calendar year 2026.

I move to select councillor Pacheco as the mayor for council calendar year 2026.

Oh second.

Moved by Councillor Pollock, seconded by Councillor Jensen.

Would like to abstain.

Please cast your vote.

Council will now select the vice mayor.

The chair would entertain a motion to formally select a vice mayor for the calendar year 2026.

I move to select Councillor Gamroth as the Vice Mayor for the calendar 2026.

Move by Mayor, seconded by Councillor Haskins.

Any abstentions?

I'd like to abstain, please, mayor.

Please cast your vote.

Sorry.

Please regard the vote.

With Councillor Gamroth abstaining and all others voting aye, the motion passes.

I will now issue the oath of office to the vice mayor.

Please follow along with them.

I think I can make it.

Yes, why don't you raise your hand?

Let's start over.

I solemnly swear that I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And the Constitution of the State of Wyoming.

And the Constitution of the State of Wyoming.

That I have not knowingly violated any law related to my election or appointment.

That I have not knowingly violated any law related to my election or appointment.

And that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity.

Congratulations.

At this time, we will take a brief recess as the council will take their new seats.

Okay, at this time, generally the elected leadership offer a few words.

And so I'll go ahead and start.

But before I begin, I do want to start with a sense of gratitude.

First, I want to thank my wife Susie, who is here.

And she is always behind me in my rock and helps be me be able to do the work that is that is so important.

So thank you.

To my parents, they are not here tonight.

This will be the first time that they were not able to come into a swearing in for me as mayor.

They uh certainly are uh dealing with some health problems.

Uh my dad usually sat right there many, many times, and he watches it every week on YouTube to call me right afterwards to tell me I've done a great job.

My parents instilled in me the belief that service matters, that we're each called to make a difference where we can, and that leadership is about responsibility, not recognition.

And to my fellow council members, I want to say thank you.

I am honored and humbled for your trust in selecting me again as your mayor this coming year.

Please know I do not take this responsibility lightly, especially knowing the transitions we are navigating on how much this next year matters.

We have real work ahead of us.

We are moving forward with the remodel of the Casper Business Center to create a new police station that reflects our commitment to public safety and responsible stewardship of our city resources.

We are finishing the six voter approved projects that our citizens place who place their trust in us for us to deliver.

And we are entering in a crucial legislative session that could have significant and lasting impacts on Casper and on every municipality across the state of Wyoming.

The discussion around property tax reductions and the implications for local government is not abstract.

These decisions affect our ability to provide services, maintain infrastructure, and respond to the needs of our community.

As we engage in these conversations, our role is to advocate clearly, thoughtfully, and firmly for Casper, while also recognizing that we are part of a larger state family with the shared responsibility to ensure essential services are available and that our communities remain places where we can thrive.

As we move into this year, I hope and my expectation is that we do do this together.

I say that often.

Unity does not mean we always agree.

Collaboration does mean we abandon that we don't abandon our strong convictions.

I want to say that again.

Collaboration does not mean we abandon strong convictions.

It means we listen, we respect differing perspectives, and we work toward common sense solutions that serve people who elected us.

It means remembering that local control matters, and that people closest to the issues are best equipped to address them.

This council has a shared responsibility to lead with integrity, to partner with our community, and to keep the focus on what truly benefits our citizens, you, the people.

If we remain committed to working together, to supporting thoughtful legislation, and to keeping Casper's best interests at the center of our decisions, I am truly confident we can make a meaningful progress this year.

As I entered this term as mayor, I am more aware than ever that the moment we are, the very moment we are in, we are living in a time marked by deep divisions, sharp ideological differences, and a growing tendency to see one another as opponents rather than neighbors.

Local government should be placed be a place where that dynamic stops, not where it is amplified.

My hope is that this council, this group of people who I consider my friends, and that this community continues to model something better.

So I challenge you.

That we will show it is still possible to disagree without disrespect, to debate without demeaning, and to lead without losing sight of our shared humanity.

If we can do that, if we can stay grounded in service, grounded in service rather than ideology, then the work we do here will matter far beyond any single vote or project that we do.

I am grateful for the opportunity to serve the trust placed in me and for the chance to close this chapter with intention, humility, and purpose.

Thank you, and I look forward to the work ahead.

Thank you, Mayor.

I got a couple of comments, maybe not so many as that, but just a few.

And thank my fellow council members for the trust you've placed in me.

I also want to recognize uh our previous vice mayor who served with dedication and set a strong example.

I'll do my best to live up to that standard.

Thank you, Councilor McIntosh.

I'm thankful for my wife Whitney and my daughter Eleanor in letting me serve our community in this way.

Missed a lot of Tuesday evening dinners at home.

Um, and so the sacrifice is shared in our household for sure.

I'm grateful to our city staff and to the residents of Casper who continue to show up and engage.

We got a great full meeting tonight, which is awesome.

Uh I won't pretend that it's for me or for Ray, but uh it's always really good to see uh Susie at least.

Uh but uh always love seeing uh folks in seats uh because it means they're taking part of the process, and uh I imagine we'll get to hear from lots of you, which I'm looking forward to.

Uh I'm more excited to uh work closely with the mayor and learn from the mayor to support this council however I can and to serve our community with care and respect.

It's an honor to take on this role, and I greatly appreciate all of you.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.

Now is the time that we invite anyone in the audience who wishes to speak uh with the council to come forward.

This is the portion of the meeting that is dedicated to the public to allow them time to discuss matters of public interest and to voice their concerns.

We ask that you please state your name, direct all questions or comments to the mayor.

No personal um obscenities or threats will be tolerated.

Council will not respond to any will all be referred to our city manager.

Uh counselors may ask clarifying questions, but if they choose to respond to matters, they will do so during the schedule council response time following communications from persons present.

As always, presentations are limited to five minutes and no time extensions will be permitted.

Please note the public hearings and ordinances each have their own separate comment periods.

And I do want to make special note tonight the non-consent item pertaining to the Eagle Valley subdivision will have its own separate comment period.

So I welcome anybody that would like to address the council.

Okay.

Please read the consent agenda titles established January 20th, 2026 as the public hearing date for consideration of an application for the transfer of resort liquor license number two from Casper and LLC doing businesses holiday in, located at 721 Granite Peak Drive to HI Casper Hospitality LLC doing business as holiday in, located at 721 Granite Peak Drive, and an application for the transfer of retail liquor license number 14 from RM Beverage Company Incorporated, doing business as Ramcota Hotel and Conference Center, located at 800 North Poplar Street to Mahadev Casper Hospitality LLC doing business as Ramcoda Hotel and Conference Center located at 800 North Poplar Street.

Thank you.

The chair would entertain a motion two by minute action, establish the public hearing dates just read.

So moved by Councillor Swing Sweeney, seconded by Councillor Jensen.

Any abstentions?

I'll abstain from both items.

Any abstentions, other extensions?

Abstentions.

Okay, please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

With counselor Pollock voting aye, the motion passes.

And now declare the public hearing open for the consideration of the transfer of retail liquor license number 34.

You have time for counselor Pollock to make it.

Mr.

City Attorney, do you have any exhibits?

Mr.

Mayor, I I do not.

I believe they are contained in the air before me.

Great.

Thank you.

Madam City Manager, do you have a report?

Thank you, Mayor.

No report beyond what's in your packet.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Council will now listen to public comment.

Public hearing comments are limited to five minutes, and no duplication of speakers will be allowed.

At this time, I would ask those individuals who wish to speak in favor of the transfer of liquor uh retail liquor license number 34 to please approach the lectern.

Anybody that wishes to speak in favor.

Okay.

At this time, I would ask those individuals who wish to speak in opposition to the transfer of retail liquor license number 34 to please approach the lecturer.

Anybody in opposition.

There being no one to speak for or against the transfer of retail liquor license number 34.

I now declare the public hearing closed.

The chair would entertain a motion to by minute action approve the application for the transfer of ownership for retail liquor license number 34 from Dorsey Van Galloway doing business as Galloway's Irish pub located at 2800 CY Avenue to Galloway's LLC doing business as Galloway's Irish pub located at 2800 CY Avenue.

Move by Councillor Bond, seconded by Councillor Sweeney.

Any discussion from the council.

Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

With councillor Pollock abstaining and all others voting aye, the motion passes.

And the application uh for transfer of liquor license uh dated uh December 2nd, 2025.

Great.

Thank you.

Madam City Manager, do you have a report?

Nothing beyond beyond what's in your packet, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Council will now listen to public comment.

Public hearing comments are limited to five minutes, and no duplication of speakers will be allowed.

At this time, I would ask those individuals who wish to speak in favor of the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number uh 22 to please approach the lectern.

Anybody who wishes to speak in favor, Mr.

Johnson.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, Council members.

I'm John Johnson.

I represent Wyoming Spirits.

Uh what this transfer is about is when my brother-in-law passed away unexpectedly a couple years ago.

We uh per the operating agreement had to take him out of the uh business.

This is putting his wife back in.

So that's what this is item under this one, is the same, which is Wyoming discount liquor.

So I just asked for your favorable approval.

Thank you.

Any questions for Mr.

Johnson?

Okay.

Thank you.

Anyone else who wishes to speak in favor?

At this time, I would ask those individuals who is to speak in opposition to the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 22 to pre-proof, please approach the lectern.

Anybody in opposition?

There being no others to speak for or against the transfer of ownership interest of the retail liquor license number 22.

I now declare the public hearing closed.

The chair would entertain a motion to by minute action approve the application for the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 22, Wyoming Spirits Inc.

doing businesses doing business as second street liquor and wine located at 939 East Second Street, suites 300, 400, and 500.

So moved.

Move by Councillor Mackintosh, seconded by Councillor Jensen.

Any discussions?

Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

With Counselor Pollock abstaining and all others voting aye, the motion passes.

So close.

I now declare the public hearing open for the consideration of transfer of ownership interest for retail liquor license number 15.

Uh Mr.

City Attorney, do you have any exhibits?

Uh thank you, Mayor.

I do uh memo dated December 18th, 2025 from Fleur Tremel to Janine Jordan.

Um returns of publication uh as required by state statute 12-4-104A in an application for transfer of liquor license uh dated December 2nd, 2025.

Thank you.

Madam City Manager, do you have any report?

Nothing beyond what's in the packet, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Council will now listen to public comments.

Public comments are limited to five minutes and no duplication of speakers will be allowed.

At this time, I would ask those individuals in favor of the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 15 to please approach the lecture.

Okay, at this time I would ask those individuals who wish to speak in opposition to the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 15 to approach the lecturer.

Anybody in opposition.

There being no one to speak for or against the uh transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 15.

I now declare the public hearing closed.

The chair would entertain a motion two by minute action approve the application of for the transfer of ownership interest of retail liquor license number 15, Wyoming liquor LLC doing business as Wyoming Dis Wyoming Discount Liquor located at 4330 East Second Street.

Moved by Councillor Jensen, seconded by Councillor Macintosh.

Any discussion by the council?

Yes.

I just like to uh thank John for um all this all of this work in the community and people don't recognize the amount of donations uh to different groups and entities uh that all of his operations uh give and give and give uh whether it's a little late or you name it, but uh greatly appreciated.

Thank you, John with Councilor Pollock abstaining and all others voting aye.

The motion passes thank you.

Please read the ordinance on second reading by title only.

Approving a municipal code text amendment to section 17.12.210 pertaining to planning and zoning commission meetings.

Thank you.

The chair to entertain a motion to approve on second reading the ordinance just read.

Move by counselor McIntosh, seconded by Councillor Haskins.

Council will now listen to public comment.

Would anybody like to comment on this second reading?

Any discussion from the council.

Please record the vote.

With all counselors voting aye, the motion passes.

Council will now discuss the resolution regarding the Eagle Valley Edition number three subdivision agreement.

Because this is not on the consent agenda, it will be open for discussion by council.

Please read the resolution by title only.

A resolution approving the vacation and final eagle valley edition number three subdivision and approving the subdivision agreement.

Thank you.

The chair would entertain a motion to approve the resolution just read.

Moved by Councillor McIntosh, seconded by the Vice Mayor.

Madam City Manager, do you have a report?

Thank you, Mayor and members of council.

I do.

So the item for consideration would create two new residential lots being split out of an approximately five-acre tract, which was vacated in 2021.

If those two residential lots are split off, the open space would be reduced in size to approximately 4.19 acres.

The clerk is displaying the aerial map, which is page 29 of your packet, uh showing you the approximate location at the north uh side or the top portion of that map along 29th Street.

Uh Planning and Zoning Commission received nine letters of opposition, heard testimony from multiple citizens at the public hearing.

Uh the staff report, as you know, goes through a detailed chronology of the previous plats, uh, replats and zoning changes made in the subject area.

And as you know, Casper Municipal Code does require this plat to be approved by resolution, and that is what is before you this evening.

Uh I would mention there are two additional map exhibits in your packet on the subsequent pages, page 30 and page 31, showing the zoning for the subject lots and the area, as well as um showing the plat map.

Uh you will note that community development director is here as well as the city planner and city engineer to answer any questions you have, and they may refer to those subsequent maps on page 30 and page 31 uh to support any uh testimony that they provide or answering of your questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, madam.

Council now listen to public comment.

Presentations are limited to five minutes, and no time extensions or duplication of speakers will be permitted.

Would you ask when possible, please points already covered by other speakers?

So I open up the floor, whatever like to come up.

My name's Colby Frontiero.

I live at 1231 30th Street.

Um I guess um this since this was approved in since it was taken back to non-consistent.

So we just kind of comment on what our thoughts are on this.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, for against is oh, it's an open open comment period.

Gotcha.

Okay, thanks.

Um, the comment was made in the opening between I think one of you two, maybe Kyle said it about being unified but not agreeing.

I think that was you that said that.

Not you, maybe you.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

I think I said I think.

Um, yeah, so I I think that's pertinent here because we all live in this community and we all want to see it grow and prosper in the right kinds of ways.

And concerning this subdivision and this rezone or vacation, um, you know, I I kind of consider some of the things that are present when this happens.

Um, you know, who are the stakeholders?

We've got a neighborhood, you know, we've got some business owners, um, got some recreationalists that walk their dogs and enjoy this area.

Um, and so what would happen to that space?

It would be reduced by what, like a quarter acre or something.

Is that right?

Yeah, okay.

So, you know, 10,000 square feet or something.

Um, so that's one thing which doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.

The idea that it could become a park is present.

I think that probably is still an option.

Um with these two homes going in.

Um, I think the concern for losing some views, people who live in the neighborhood who have views.

Um, I don't know how much of a concern that is a lot of the houses on 29th um have south facing garages with no windows, so I don't know if that's a concern.

I do think it's fair to hear those concerns.

I've been on both sides of the fence with rezoning in this particular area, and I've had a great experience with that.

Um the neighbors needed to be heard, and it was fair to hear them and gaining their support was as it should be.

It was it was a conversation that needed to be had.

So I think this is important, kind of like what you were saying.

It's being part of the public decorum and having that opportunity is nice to see the engagement.

Um, I also think about what would happen to the property values, and I think prairie versus a $900,000 home would be probably a benefit for the neighborhood because the other homes in that area would also be comped with that home.

Um, I know Benny's definitely, I mean, he lives in the neighborhood, so I don't think it's in his best interest to do two things.

One to do it wrong, so that he has to deal with angry homeowners who he sells those homes to.

Two, um, I wouldn't build crappy homes in my neighborhood.

So I don't think he will either.

And and I think the homes that he's built in that neighborhood are also quite nice, and you could go up and check them out.

I mean, they're really nice homes.

Um, so I think the property value will increase, which is good.

I think the potential for it to still be a kind of a multi-use recreation area is still present.

You know, one of the other things that that comes up is what about drainage, right?

And I think the drainage, I don't know, hole or culvert or whatever is like it's like over 40 inches.

And I think it was recommended by the city engineer.

Maybe I can maybe they can answer this that it was recommended that they actually restrict that flow.

Um in the event of a hundred year flood, I don't think it would even get half the height of the 40 inch culvert.

So that the recommendation to slow the flow is to kind of moderate that water through there, which I think is probably fair.

So I don't think there's any real concern for flooding.

Um, you know, we can trust in the builder, maybe to the degree that he's supposed to do things right.

And I don't know if building in those two places is a is a concern or a fear that people who aren't buying the home should really worry about.

We, you know, if he loses his money on that, that's nobody else's problem but his.

And so we kind of have to believe in the process a little bit.

I think sometimes we get wrapped up in what could be versus what actually is.

You know, we sort of fantasize an unknown fear versus a known non-fear.

And I I seem to think this would be a good thing for the community in that area.

It looks like there should be homes right there.

There's already utilities stubbed out.

You know, there's it's just kind of ready for the taking, I think.

But I mean, I think it could still be used as a park as well.

So that's my two cents.

Or that's my three minutes and 40 seconds.

Any quite any questions?

Yeah, go ahead.

So uh thank you for coming.

Sure.

Um and speaking.

I'm curious.

Are are you a resident in that area, that neighborhood?

I have property in that area, correct.

Okay.

And you currently reside up there.

No, I own businesses in that area.

You uh business.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Yeah, thanks for asking.

Any other questions?

Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here.

Yeah.

Any others to speak.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Pacheco, council members.

My name is Maureen Young, and I'm speaking on behalf of my husband Clark and myself and many of the neighbors who are here tonight, and those that were unable to come.

Thank you for your time and your service to our community.

Last weekend, my husband and I walked to the neighborhood.

Others shared our concerns.

Many residents were unaware of this proposal, which is troubling in its own.

Once informed, several members described ongoing water issues with water pooling in their yards, seeping into basements, damage that's cost thousands of dollars.

These are not abstract worries.

They're real experiences from the people who live here, and they deserve to be part of this discussion.

We are here tonight because we're deeply concerned about the long-term safety and resilience of our neighborhood.

The proposed changes could shift drainage patterns in an area that's already prone to water in crawl spaces, saturated lawns, and basement seepage.

Throughout this process, I've tried to educate myself about the city's stormwater map management system.

And while I'm not a hydraulic engineer, I've relied on the city's own stormwater master plan to understand what's at stake.

That document makes clear that the tract where these new lots are proposed functions as part of a regional detention system.

Earlier engineering guidance in that plan, in that plan, explicitly warns that altering this area could increase flood risk, specific protections and less specific protections are maintained.

This is not a simple question of a couple of acres in one neighborhood.

It's a meaningful component of Casper's broader flood risk management strategy.

The master plan does not call for eliminating the detention pond.

It calls for formalizing it.

That tells us that the city saw long-term value in preserving and improving this detention area.

Building in the deepest part of the pond does the opposite of what the city's own engineers recommended.

The city has already identified this area as sensitive infrastructure.

When your own plan highlights a foreseeable risk, it becomes a matter of public safety and responsible stewardship.

My parents have lived in Casper for decades.

And they chose this neighborhood as their forever home about seven years ago.

My husband and I came back last year to be with them.

And now we find ourselves fighting to protect their home and the homes of their cherished neighbors.

We're simply asking you to stand with the residents and with your own engineering guidance so that decisions made today do not unintentionally create preventable harm tomorrow.

For all these reasons, we respectfully ask you to vote no on the issue tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Yeah, go ahead, Counselor Sweeney.

So thanks for coming tonight, and thanks for your comments.

When you talked about I guess it would be north of 29th, were they not included in the notification process within I don't know if it's 300 feet, 300 in a circular direction?

Right.

So the people that were directly across the street, they're on 29th were notified because it is, I think a 350 feet uh radius, but everybody else in the neighborhood was not.

Down down below.

Right, right.

Downstream, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then Mayor, if I can so when you talk about the uh flood risk uh plan in um having tried to look at some of those documents, but not really fully understanding.

Yeah.

Um when you visited with some of the neighbors uh north of uh 29th, did any of them indicate that they had any, I guess that would be on Nicholas?

That's right.

Did they have any water concerns or standing water during a heavy rain event or runoff type event?

Yes, on average rain um storm situations.

I spoke with one had um cattails growing in his backyard because he had so much moisture in his uh backyard.

He spent 25,000 having to redo his front and land and backyard because at that time um there was nobody else to help him, and that's the issue that's happening.

I also spoke to another neighbor who'd had um a series of issues in their basement.

Um, the conversations just and then they'd tell me about oh, and then so and so down the way, they had the stormwater um management team come in and um spend thousands of dollars for repair.

And so every time I heard one story, I heard of other neighbors that were telling me um, or they were telling me of of other stories as well.

So it it was shocking.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

Okay, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Good evening, uh, Mr.

Mayor Council, men and women, my name is Andy Sears.

I live on 27th Street just north of where this proposal uh directly across from the pipe that empties onto the uh golf course.

I could tell you that pipe is running water 12 months a year, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Um, I have concerns about what this means uh for the um for our entire community.

I would also say this the city spent a million dollars having Shane Porter uh do this um study.

And um, I know that Shane has voiced his concerns to the engineering department about this very uh vacation and replat.

I hope those concerns are being listened to.

Uh those were public funds uh spent for the benefit of the public, and now I fear we are maybe overlooking those uh for the benefit of one instead of the benefit of all, and that's bad government.

More than that, I would say this.

I am an attorney.

I've been an attorney in this town for 15 years, but I'm not here representing anybody uh other than myself, but I'm a concerned neighbor.

Um I would point this out.

I think this gets lost a lot when we're vacating plates.

Uh section 34-12-106 of the Wyoming statutes deals with vacation of plates.

It's but it expressly says no plat or portion thereof within the corporate limits of a city or town shall be vacated as herein provided without the approval of the city or town.

That's what gives you authority to hear this issue tonight.

So often the sentence before that is overlooked.

Um in case where any lots have been sold, the plat may be vacated as herein provided by all the owners of lots in such plat, joining in the execution of the writing aforesaid.

When you purchase a lot in a plat, you are taking on obligations and responsibilities.

A single party to that plat cannot unilaterally change those obligations and responsibilities.

Once a proprietor sells lots in a plat, he cannot vacate them without the written consent of every owner in the plat.

I would invite uh those who are able to read Carter Han v.

Lewis from 2012.

I know the case well.

I was a law clerk for the judge that really originally wrote that decision.

Uh I helped write that decision, which was then affirmed by the Wyoming Supreme Court.

And in that case, it discusses the fact that once plats are sold, you cannot vacate them without the consent of everybody within the plat.

Not to mention the fact the vacation statute, the partial vacation statute provides that um any vacation shall not abridge or destroy any of the rights or privileges of any other proprietors and said plat.

And that's a major issue in this case right now, because this is going against the expressed uh the express recommendations by a study that was commissioned by this city and recommended that those areas not be platted, that they not be built upon.

I think this thing has litigation written all over it.

Um I think if we go forward with this, uh I foresee a lawsuit uh in which the uh Mr.

Hansel and the City of Casper are co-defendants.

Um I would ask that the city of the city maybe short circuit that today.

Um certainly burdens of proof have not been met here.

The fact that this replat even has the ability to destroy the rights and privileges of neighboring uh lot owners, particularly by taking away flood protections that were built into this plat.

Means that anybody who wants to vacate and replat this area needs to come forward with strong evidence that um explains why the original study is no longer in effect and how this replat is not going to impinge others' rights to enjoy the properties that they have bought within this plat.

Uh so I would respectfully ask uh that you vote no on it today.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Hold on one second.

Yep, no, you're good.

Any questions?

Yeah.

Council Sweeney.

So uh thank you for coming.

Sure, thank you, sir.

Kind of addressed a couple of my concerns that I that I had in my mind as far as um because we we've had other vacation uh type type issues and city park and um uh that were part of a different whole different subdivision, but um so on 20 is 27 um the furthest north.

Uh, do you face the golf course, municipal golf course?

My front porch faces the municipal golf course, and to be fair, I'm not in this plat.

My consent isn't required, but the consent of my neighbors south and night 29th is absolutely required.

I would point out, uh Councilman Sweeney, that several years ago they did a vacation of part of this plat, and every single owner in the platform on it.

That's the appropriate process.

Process hasn't been followed here.

Um thank you, Mary.

That's good.

So you're saying that um 29th in that vicinity, that process has not been followed or was it followed in relationship to the plant that the replant before this.

I don't know the entire history of how this plates be.

I know that this was replatted and zoned several years ago so that twin homes could be single residential homes.

And if you go look in the proprietor at that time, sent out a letter to every single lot owner, ask for their consent, obtain their written consent.

I would say that in my opinion, that is the proper proper process.

They don't have to get my consent.

I live down the street, but I'm concerned about the long-term ramifications of this because the pipe uh that we're talking about that's supposed to um um divert stormwater during a hundred year event runs directly under my house, and I see it running water all the time.

There's kids down there gigging frogs uh all summer long, and you know, it keeps that it keeps that um, it keeps that pond over there uh full.

And I guess I would also point this out uh councilman Sweeney.

I have grave concerns that this water is eventually making its way to the Platte River and entering the interstate commerce commerce.

Um we have set up a um stormwater management plan that I believe probably has federal ramifications.

I wonder if anybody's asked the Army Corps of Engineers to do a jurisdictional determination on this because it could have this thing doesn't end with a few lots uh you know south of 29th street.

This thing has major implications, and those major implications have not been followed.

I'm not saying that those lots should never be up there.

We got a long way to go before we have the evidence we need to say this is a safe and appropriate vacation in repl and replat, in which all the neighbors have been given the proper information that they need and have been given an opportunity to approve it, like Wyoming law requires.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Oh, sorry, I was just gonna answer this question that we know about that, but no, that's okay.

Good evening.

Good evening.

Thanks for allowing me to speak.

My name is Benjamin Hanseld.

I'm the applicant for this re-plat my wife and I, my wife Michael sitting out here.

We live in the neighborhood at 128 East 27th Street.

Our house also faces the golf course, and we own the lots across the street from Mr.

Sears that he talked about.

Um, I think the precedent he's talking about is for a PUD, a planned unit development where everybody has to sign off on the replat.

This is not a planned unit development.

So I I would say, you know, let's not set a precedent that everything we do has to go through that.

Um, so anyway, thanks for allowing me to be here.

I trust you all have received my letter uh that I sent to every council member uh via email and by mail.

And I'm I'm happy to answer any questions.

Um the Eagle Valley number three edition will add two beautiful lots on 29th Street.

Um the lots are already set up with utilities, and our intent is to build very nice residences on the on the lots on the property, and it only makes sense, and it was part of our plan when buying this development land four years ago.

Um we've tried to communicate our intent to folks in the neighborhood, and there's been a lot of opposition, as you can see.

I I wouldn't say a lot, but you know, a few vocal voices.

Um we haven't heard from the other 65,000 people in Casper yet.

Um maybe five or ten though.

So my first point is diversion.

Um the real reason these folks are concerned is because a few of them are going to have their view blocked, and that's understandable to be concerned about that.

But uh this is not open space.

This is private property.

It's property that I spent my life savings to buy.

And I was promised I could develop it when I bought it.

We've gone through all the proper city channels to do that.

Now it is not a precedent to do all the engineering studies before you plat a piece of property.

Although, rest assured, we are doing engineering in about three weeks.

We'll have an updated drainage study.

There was a 2006, a 2011, and a 2013 study.

We'll have a 2026 study by stamped by a professional engineer.

We'll get three if you need it, civil engineers.

Three of them, outside consultants, they'll all stamp it.

And the drainage myths will be dispelled.

Um I want to be positive.

So let's talk about economics.

My wife and I live in the neighborhood.

We would never proceed with development that would hurt the economics of this neighborhood.

We own like 20 lots up there, our houses there, our dream home also.

Uh everything we've bit built has been above board in quality, aesthetics, efficiency, durability.

We can confidently say that our development has increased the value of the neighboring homes, and that is a fact.

That's a fact.

Engineering.

The city engineer has already vetted the viability of the development of these lots as stated in the memo to all of you from the city manager from from the community development director.

We will update the drainage study, and it's in for the entire Upper St.

Mary's alpha.

We'll update that drainage study.

We should have it done in about three weeks.

It'll be stamped, like I said.

We have an outside consultant working on our engineering.

Um, additionally, I employ two professional engineers.

I'm a professional engineer by trade myself, and so we have uh we have some knowledge.

We're we're not gonna do things.

So here's here's my sentence.

With that being said, safety and proper engineering are fundamental aspects of our work.

You can be assured that we will do our due diligence as it pertains to development, including drainage of these lots, as we have done with every parcel of land we developed.

We are not scared, we're not scared to move forward and do stuff.

Lastly, landowners, some of these folks were offered options to purchase this property.

The petition writer was provided that option.

These folks.

It would be irresponsible of us to throw away our life savings, our hard-earned money, especially since we're able to address concerns with facts.

We have the re we have a responsibility to ourselves and our neighbors.

Okay, thank you.

Any questions?

Questions.

Yeah, go ahead, council.

Council Sweeney.

Thank you.

Thanks for coming in.

Um concerns.

Um, unfortunately, I didn't wasn't able and didn't get a hold of you.

I did visit with some of the folks that did reach out and visited the property quite a few times, trying to get a better feel of the lay of the land.

Um in uh council materials, which I'm assuming uh it's obviously public record on the acreage that you have said that you bought, um, which includes you know, this this retention area in drainage where you're proposing the the two lots.

Um it's also in the plating at um, and I don't know what page in the packet this actually is, but is it your intention the way you've got um page 46?

Um is it your intention and push Nicholas all the way through from 29th up to where the uh the I don't currently have any plans to do that.

Okay, but it's platted.

No, no, it's not platted that way.

So um I don't know if we're able to ask staff, but that's a storm water, that's where the pipe runs where the okay, so that's an easement for stormwater that the city when I originally platted that whole neighborhood to the south.

The city engineers required, and and the development department required that I plat that 50 foot easement for drainage.

Okay, Alex, Alex, the city engineer shaking his head in agreement.

Okay.

So in the in that, so the neighbors would have your total assurance you never plan to give total assurance.

This is private property, Mr.

Sweeney.

Um I mean, not saying I have any plans to develop that, but it it is private property.

That 50 foot is a drainage easement, so there will never be development on that.

That 50 foot all the way down the middle of that tract is a drainage easement specifically for the purpose of stormwater drainage.

Okay, and if I could ask a different question further south, um I guess that would above uh where it marks the curb, there's a couple of new homes up there.

Those homes are south of Palmer Drive on a little extension of Nicholas, yes, that you're referring to, and then it it appears more development is taking place uh further south.

No, that lands in the county, but I own that land.

Um so it it appears that's a horse property, okay.

And if it appears there's more drainage work against the wet land taking place in the county.

Uh uh well that was part of the original Eagle Valley development, which included Palmer Drive there that connects to the mountain road, and then the eye doctor clinic built right there.

That end to Nicholas and that little drainage uh modification was part of that greater development.

The first I would call it the first plat of Eagle Valley.

Okay, so there is no more work taking place there.

Just we need to do a little seeding in the spring to get it back to uh could I ask a question, Mayor?

Um you own that property up that's in the county, yes, sir.

Okay, and it's on X.

Okay, thank you.

Anything else, Mr.

Sweeney?

No, okay.

Any other questions?

Thank you so much.

Appreciate your comments.

Others.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Pacheco and fellow council members.

My name is Ryan Waterberry.

I reside at 2729 Nicholas in the neighborhood.

Um I'm between 29th and 27th, immediately downstream of this development area.

Um I am employed by Mr.

Hansel, but I'm here tonight on my own behalf.

And I have talked with some of our neighbors.

Um, I have a professional engineering license.

I am a licensed civil engineer, and I served on the plenum.

The development that Mr.

Hansold's proposed.

I think it should be first understood that yes, in the 2013 drainage study that the city had done, it did identify that as a potential detention basin, but it was never procured by the city, and the recommendations in that study were never done.

And I have a hunch that that was never done because the city of Casper owns the municipal golf course, which is immediately downstream of our neighborhood, and has two small ponds on it that the city uses for water.

So I I living downstream of it, whether it never become a detention basin, and seeing what Mr.

Hansel has proposed, extending the existing 48-inch drainage pipe.

I've looked at the studies, I've looked at the numbers.

It's more than adequate to handle the 100-year flood that was identified in the original drainage study for Eagle Valley and the back nine.

So I don't have any concerns about the the area being built on, right?

And I just like to make clear that it is private property, right?

And Mr.

Hanseld would work with people if they wanted to procure the property.

You know, I think I may be speaking out of turn, but when the Eagle Valley was originally platted, I believe there was discussions about being it dedicated to the city as park space.

But that also was not acted on.

So that's what I have.

I have no concerns about the development.

I mean, it is what it is, and it's private property, and let the man do what he needs to do.

Any questions?

Okay.

Thank you so much for your comments.

Good evening.

Good evening, Mayor Pacheco and City Council members.

I'm Darren Drears.

I live at uh 2839 Hogan Drive.

I've been there for about six and a half years now.

Uh retired out of the military and came back to this beautiful area which I grew up in.

Um the Becker Development Homes are beautiful.

Uh, I will tell you all the houses that Benny has put up to, including my parents' house, uh over um where they reside now, they're all gorgeous houses.

Um I have faith that the future houses and the other lots that he has are also going to be the same.

I will tell you, however, that all three of my neighbors' neighbors have flooded within the past year and a half uh across the street, um have flooded more than once uh to the point where he has decided that he has now moved out, and now new neighbors have moved in uh behind us.

They have moved also.

Um I don't know if it's all due to the flooding, but I know they were all very frustrated with it.

Um the continued development of the St.

Mary's drainage, I think causes us all concerned just because we all have two or so uh some pumps in our basements.

We all know that there's a flooding concern in there.

I want to read you uh a couple excerpts from a letter written by an individual and his wife that weren't able to be here tonight.

Uh Dr.

Edmund and Laura Renneman.

Uh they just have a few concerns they want to share with you.

We've resided here for at our current address at 2816 Nicholas Drive for almost 11 years.

During that time, there's been extensive development to the south of 29th Street and to the east up to the base of the hills.

Many more structures, streets, and concrete, none of which absorb water.

Additionally, the slope of the hills to the east has been modified, which will result in a change of water flow patterns with significantly less available open ground and soil to absorb the water, along with the change in slope of the hills to the east.

We're concerned about the excess water and where it will go.

Currently, it will go into the Eagle Valley holding pond.

Additionally, we're concerned about the smaller ponds that were further south of the drainage drainage that are no longer there.

Any studies that have previously been completed, we request that they be updated by an independent party, taking into account all the changes that have been taking place in the past 13 years.

I think Benny just kind of addressed that they plan on doing a new study in 2026.

Um currently, when there's a thunderstorm, Nicholas Drive becomes a small river with water flowing above the curbs and sidewalks on both sides of the east and west of the streets.

Some of the homes in the development already have water issues.

If we did not have a French drain in our backyard, we would have a lake when we receive uh thunderstorm or heavy spring rains.

I don't believe any of the property owners in the development are in need of more water running through or around their properties.

To be more transparent, we request that every property owner on Nicholas Drive and Palmer Drive should receive a letter from the city advising us of what is being considered.

This decision by the city council is a big deal for us, and it cannot be taken lightly.

Every property on Nicholas Drive, some on Palmer Drive, some on 27th Street, could be seriously damaged by water and a breach of 29th Street.

A couple of my neighbors were not even aware of this item was even being considered tonight.

I know that's addressed, so sorry.

Should a breach occur.

We with properties and homes being damaged, insurance claims will resort result.

Everyone's property insurance in the area will increase.

Litigation will take place, and property values will decrease as a result of water problems created by a decision if you make that so tonight by the city council.

We feel the risks exceed the potential benefits from our perspective as property owners.

Um, I think we all request, or at least a few of us request that we table this, try and get a new drainage study and uh get the information so you can make an informed decision.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Yeah, go ahead, Councilor Sweeney.

So did you say you lived on Hogan?

2839 Hogan.

So I am on the corner directly opposite south of 29th Street.

Okay.

Okay.

So I'm one block over from Nicholas, the center of the drainage.

So this proposed track changes to the east of me.

Okay.

And then the letter from the doctor that you read.

He is right on Nicholas Street.

2816 Nicholas.

Okay.

So I mean, I the notification point.

Um but you know, our evidently our regulations were absolutely followed with the note of um I too have concern that uh the neighboring properties, um, especially to the north.

Um that I do believe should have been notified about all of this, but you know, according to our process, um, you you weren't.

Um they weren't uh down further on, Nicholas.

But I'm pretty sure the requirement is only 300 feet away from the proposed track change.

Um, so anybody that's two houses down is too far away from that 300 foot.

So I believe I believe that process was followed, but there's a lot of folks that really would like to have some information since that water is gonna flow right down the street or it flows right underneath them right now, you know, on what could happen.

Just so we're more informed informed, I believe.

Thank you.

Other questions.

Thank you so much for your comments.

Others good evening.

Good evening.

Mayor Pacheco and City Council members.

My name is Dave Driggers.

I live in Eagle Valley on Palmer Drive.

Thank you for removing this from the consent agenda.

It's an important item, and we appreciate the opportunity to give you our public comment.

Every day, homeowners in the Nine Iron and Eagle Valley subdivisions are reminded that they live in the St.

Mary's water watershed because of water in their crawl spaces.

It is not surprising that we are very water aware.

But when the conversation escalates to include stormwater management and flood prevention, we go from awareness to concern, particularly when we feel that certain tenants in the city's own 2013 stormwater management master plan might have been forgotten.

I plan to present to you what I feel are three undeniable truths and show what the stormwater management plan says about each of them.

The first undeniable truth.

The city council has not been given current or more importantly, projected five-year imperviousness ratios needed to determine current and projected excess runoff.

Imperviousness ratios for St.

Mary Street outfall were estimated in 2013 by the management plan.

Meaning the assumptions made in this study are no longer valid due to large current and projected development in Neagle Valley.

Should monitor land use changes whenever the land use changes result in imperviousness ratios that exceed projections identified in this study.

Steps should be taken to further limit increases in stormwater runoff through the use of additional on-site detention, not less thereby reducing runoff rates volumes and potential for increasing flood damages.

You have land use control powers, and I believe this is extends to private property when your constituents' welfare and property are at risk.

Number two, the city council has not been given updated detention pond volume capacity after the two proposed lots are developed.

The two proposed lots are located in the deepest part of the detention pond where the most storage capacity exists.

Mr.

Driggers, excuse me.

I'm going to ask you one more time.

Please do not speak out.

This will be the last time I'm going to ask you that, the one and only time.

Thank you.

May I retain my time?

Yes, thank you.

The storm management plan estimated the uncompromised storage capacity of the detention pond at 24 at 24 acre feet.

Since this detention pond serves as the first real safety valve against major flooding, the council needs to know how much water capacity capacity displacement occurs with the development of these two lots.

As noted in the management plan, additional detention may be needed, not less.

The detention pond must have at least one foot, one foot of free board during the 100-year event before over overtopping 29th Street.

13 years ago, this was identified as a problem in our year 2013 study with a presumed updated current and projected five-year imperviousness ratios indicating a greater runoff and presumed decreased water volume capacity in the detention pond.

The city council needs to know if there is still the required one foot of free board.

This is our community's last safety valve.

Uh and if if it is breached 29th Street, uh we'll will have an overflow in Nicholas is right in the middle of it.

So I asked the this com this council to vote no on this proposal.

What will what will a no vote mean?

It will mean that you are unwilling to make an uninformed decision, and you're unwilling to take the flood risk to my neighbors on Nicholas Street.

In closing, I have a proposal for you.

Mr.

Driggers, I'm going to give you 25 seconds because I had to interrupt you.

Okay, I'll be real quick.

We're all looking for the truth in this matter.

And I believe the only accepted truth will be one from a study from an independent environmental or water engineer hired by the city.

And I hope the city and the developer would join me in that proposal.

I'd be glad to answer any questions.

Any questions?

Yeah, please.

Um your address was at.

Um 3,05 Palmer Drive.

Palmer.

Okay.

And um was your property, not that it's 100% uh relevant, but was your property that you purchased um built by Becker or by Ben?

By Ben.

I have not heard anybody say that he builds a bad product.

I've heard just the opposite that it's that's that's the reason we bought our house on Palmer is because we viewed the quality of his construction to be excellent.

Uh we've you know, we're happy with where we are.

We we've obviously made almost a three-quarter million dollar investment in that area, and we don't want us to be identified as a flood zone, which will decrease the value of that investment.

So in your comments, um do you believe if council were to table this?

Which I don't know personally, I don't know if we can uh and wait for um his study that's going to come out three weeks and take an evaluation of that.

Um you think that would satisfy um you know what once we look at it, would that satisfy some of your concerns?

You know, I I in this process I've probably visited 15 homeowners in Eagle Valley and not nine are in what I believe I can say with relative assurance is that we want an independent study by a water engineer or an environmental engineer that studies hired by and sponsored by the city.

I appreciate what Ben is doing with his study with his engineers, but there has to be a certain amount of trust, and I think the city council is in an excellent position to provide that trust.

One last question that I should have asked uh earlier, and perhaps staff would be able to address as um you know underground.

Um is there gravel or is it Cody Shale that this whole area is that's that's a great question.

And what I've done is I've looked, I think it was the two things study that identified the different soil uh permutations throughout Casper, and it identified the basin A area, which is you know just south of this, you know, this uh development as having relatively uh impervious soil, it's got a lot of clay in it.

And so if you look at the study that I'm proposing, is you look at what they call basin A, which is that area south of Palmer, including where the radius church is, our new beautiful uh eye clinic, but those all have new parking parking lots.

They weren't accounted for in the original 2013 study, and they didn't do soil sampling, or at least it wasn't part of the study that I saw in the 2013 study that the city sponsored.

So there, you know, without new a new independent study, everybody in this room is speculating on both sides, and all I'm doing is asking that the city being the arbiter, and recognizing you're in an excellent position to you know transparently resolve this issue.

I I am I am more than willing to accept whatever the findings in this new study would show.

If it says we're good to go, we don't have any problems with a hundred-year event.

I'm willing to accept that.

And I hope everybody in this room would be willing to accept that.

The issue is transparency, trust, and the only group in this room who can provide that is the city council and the mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Any others.

Good evening.

My name is Lawrence Heim.

I'm speaking on behalf of my parents, Pat and Maryheim, who live in a home adjacent to this proposed lot development.

They're in opposition to this change and would ask that you consider the following brief points.

The only technical study included in the replot application and cited in the memo to council is a 2006 drainage study performed prior to the area's development.

The report highlights the importance of the quote, well-defined storm truck, end quote, located in tract A.

It states the report should be amended as development takes place in the and concludes by emphasizing that if the neighborhood is developed in the future, quote, detention should be planned, end quote.

That report also laid out how the 29th Street culvert was to be sized.

In doing so, it estimated the amount of development in the area around tract A, and certainly never directly within it, as this change proposes.

That specific area has seen significant development in the last couple of years.

And as the report highlights, increasing impervious structures in a detention area creates the risk of less absorption, increased concentrated flow, and water levels rising if a covert like that one is restricted.

Anything done outside the assumptions of that report meant that it needed to be revisited.

There have been no amendments to that report in 20 years.

That brings us to the city's 2013 stormwater management master plan, which highlights the following about the specific drainage.

Not only is Tract A assumed to be free of development, it's listed as a defined detention area for stormwater runoff control, part of the St.

Mary Street outfall, one of eight key drainage systems that the city has.

So if this happens, it would eliminate the pond's layout as called for in the master plan.

It would significantly reduce its size and capacity to retain stormwater.

It would change the dynamics of the overall detention area, reducing the water absorbing soil.

It would result in water safety issues for my parents' home.

There's homes in the neighborhood, and downstream into the city.

What remains is now threatened by continuing development, end quote.

So clearly, the dust the justification in the 2021 rezone somehow granted this area as usable open space is misleading and incorrect.

So to knowingly allow development on a city documented detention area and on a priority detention pond without providing any supporting hydrology data or justification as to how the stormwater master plan will need to be amended, will clearly increase the risk of flooding for the homes in this neighborhood.

The role the drainage system within track A and the detention pond EE27 play in the master plan is well documented.

My parents feel that the city's own documents provide guidance on what should be done.

And without any supporting data, a replat of Tract A will deviate from the stormwater master plan, not conform with the adopted land use plan, and will not benefit the overall welfare of the community.

They are extremely concerned that the primary purpose of this detention area, which is to absorb and control stormwater runoff within the city is going to be compromised and put their home at increased risk of flooding.

Thank you for considering our comments and concerns.

They respectfully ask that the vacation and replat of Tract A Eagle Valley be denied.

Questions?

Yeah, Councilor Schmidt.

Thank you for coming.

And did you also uh at planning and zoning uh was it you that I went back and watched the tape?

Um were you the presenter of during that portion?

Was this the same?

Yes, sir.

I was and was this the same speech.

The same major points, yes.

Just pared down a little.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So which I I thought that was um very good comments in uh appreciated your comments tonight.

Thank you.

Um but uh I don't think we've got any other questions.

Okay, sorry.

Any others?

Okay, thank you so much.

Hello, Mayor Pacheco and City Council.

Okay, you're good.

That's pretty sad.

My name's Tammy Avazian.

I live on Palmer Drive.

And I was asked just to tell I had water issues at my house.

And um, I was just asked to come and talk about those for a few minutes.

Um when we um moved in and were looking at buying the house, water was a question we asked about, and Ben had assured us that he had put in a French drain in the retaining wall behind the house and along that between the two houses, and that that should take care of it.

Um I had wanted to do my own landscaping, so I had asked not to have grass put in.

And um after one of the first big rainstorms, took several days for the water to clear up in my backyard, and Ben said, Well, I we if we put some sod in, if you let me put sod in, that'll take care of it.

So that was our first try.

And um, we did that.

Um and it was winter, things went through.

The spring, we had a it was spring of 24, we had a pretty rainy spring, and we found that we had a lot of standing water, po not standing pools of water in the backyard after rains, and um after one pretty moderately pretty heavy rain, um, it was pretty close to the house.

Um one of the neighbors saw me because I was in a panic.

I took buckets and was taking it out.

I didn't know what to do.

And anyway, I talked to Ben, and after a few days it drained, and I talked to Ben about it, and he said, Well, if it all drained, then it's doing what it's supposed to.

So I thought, well, I need to take care of this myself, so I got a hold of some landscapers, and I had a landscaper come and he gave me some good ideas.

Um, but it was I was just really nervous about wanting to do this right, and so I thought I'm gonna talk want to talk to an engineer.

So I started, I was gonna call around and I called um I always get the letters wrong.

CEPI was the first um engineering firm I called.

They patched me through to one of their engineers, and it turned out to be Ben's engineer.

And he said, you know, we did everything by the book, and I and I don't doubt that they did.

Um you just can't predict what water's going to do.

And um he said, I'm sure Ben will take care of it.

And I told him, Well, it you know, it did eventually drain, so Ben wasn't gonna do anything more about it.

And um, so that was kind of we talked about the landscaping, and that was probably it, and then um the next couple days later, we had a pretty heavy rain, and Ben did come and look, and he did later put in a drain from my backyard to the street, and since then we have had no problems, but I guess my point is it was all done right, but we just don't know what water is going to do, and um cutting this drainage area down just is a big concern for myself and a lot of our neighbors.

Any questions?

Yeah, counselor Sweeney.

So thank you for coming.

Um, do you have a crawl space?

Yes, and do you have multiple sump pumps or we have one?

And do you know if you had water we we did until um once Ben put that drain to bring the water?

We haven't had any issues.

So like I I'm happy with that that the issue was solved.

Um like I say my point was just we just you just never know what water and that's our our the neighborhood concerned thank you others thank you so much anybody else good evening pacheco city council members.

My name is Brian Ivazian.

That was just my wife you spoke.

I'm not gonna speak to her points, but I want to look at something a little larger.

First off, as I said at the P and Z meeting a few weeks ago.

Ben builds wonderful houses.

I mean, that's why we're there.

That's soil of our neighborhood.

The issue is not him as a uh a builder, but it's the landscape issue.

Um there's two types of water.

There's the water that flows through the surface, and there's groundwater.

My wife spoke to the groundwater issues.

And you know, follow the code, follow the principles.

You can still have issues.

You don't know.

Um presently there are a number of homes built on both the east and west flanks of that uh impoundment area.

Those homes are built primarily, substantially, if not completely, on original uh ridge, though there are some parts of their backyards that you know have been filled in.

Still, those houses were built with uh pylons.

Again, very smart.

The concern is with the proposed new lots.

And I misspoke at the P and Z meetings.

I said it would have to go 40 feet down to get to the present level of uh the drainage.

What I meant to say was to get down from street level to the ground and to find solid substantial footing for houses, you'd probably have to go 40 feet or more.

Again, that's unknown.

But given the fact that that's the lowest part of a pond that's been there for a lot longer than any of us have been around.

You know, there's a lot of stuff that have accumulated there.

To build the houses on the flanks, again, they're mostly solid.

The proposed new lots, that is gonna be 100% fill.

Um as my wife pointed out, there's unknown movements of water.

Man plans, God laughs.

We don't know.

And the more information we can get before we make a decision is very helpful.

One thing I didn't point out at the P and Z meeting was that uh since those proposed new lots of 100% fill, they'll be compacted using modern machines.

Uh still will not have the level of compaction as you'd have from national natural setting over centuries, if not millennia.

That's at the lowest part of the drainage.

So any water that comes there is going to be sitting there, and that water can percolate up.

So you can always have moist soils.

I believe it was 1983 when Casper experienced, you know, a decent size earthquake.

The home I owned at that time experienced cracks in the wall.

If you have a lot that is a hundred percent fill, that is substantially well hydrated, at least at the lower levels in an earthquake event.

There have been numerous examples around the country where wet soils are subject to seismic forces, they liquefy.

You know, it's just one more thing of you know, Ben builds wonderful houses.

I wouldn't be there if it wasn't.

But is this the right place to build those houses?

And it's one area of concern that I have.

So I thank you for your time and attention.

And you know, if not outright voting knowing this, I would suggest you at least table to get more information if you decide you do need more.

Questions.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate your time.

Any others.

Okay.

Yep.

Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor.

And uh thank you.

Uh to everyone who shared your opinions.

I want to thank the gentleman who characterized us as the arbiter of truth and transparency.

I don't remember who that was, but uh I appreciate it.

I'm sure there's certainly people that are gonna disagree with you on that characterization.

But um, I do think that uh our group does a really good job trying to be objective fair and open in our decision-making process, and hopefully this will be an illustration of that.

Um so appreciate uh the faith and kind words.

Uh this job is made both harder, but also uh we're gonna have a higher quality product when we hear from so many people given their diverse feedback.

Plenty of folks spoke both in support and also opposition to this replat.

And uh, but uh um, you know, obviously very mixed um feedback, which is what makes it so hard, but I do appreciate everyone being so articulate in their responses.

I also especially love when people cite city planning documents, state statutes, and other primary sources.

I'm definitely a data guy.

Uh I love seeing those sorts of citations.

And uh for me personally, the most compelling arguments are always gonna be uh facts with uh good quality citations to support so uh to support those facts.

So I really uh really like all the all the uh comments I heard this evening.

There are uh gentleman in the back mentioned, I believe it was Wyoming State Statute 3412106 uh regarding vacation and replats.

So my first question is to the city attorney.

Uh uh, I want to apologize to anyone in the crowd for maybe appearing distracted or not paying attention, but I was reading through this statute and uh kind of doing my best to analyze what the intent and uh um you know uh the intent of the statute is.

And so I'm just looking to the city attorney.

I don't know.

Uh I saw you potentially combing over it as well.

And so just wondering if you had the same reading of it that I did, my interpretation after reading it through and doing some research up here on the days was that that consent requirement of uh property owners, uh the requirement statute is only met if there are other property owners in the same tract affected by the vacation and replat.

And so I don't know if you're able to give me a legal opinion like on the spot uh, sir.

But uh I'm curious what your interpretation is of that statute and what merits are to that argument.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor, uh Vice Mayor and Council.

I uh was feverishly uh combing through not only 3412106, um, but Carnahan v.

Lewis, which was cited by attorney Sears uh in in his commentary.

Um and the statute does kind of plainly state um in case where any lots have been sold, the plat may be vacated as herein provided, comma, by all the owners of lots and such plat joining in the execution of the writing aforesaid.

Um in looking at the the case uh that was was cited, um the the Supreme Court uh did hold that uh in that case, uh Table Mountain Ranches was the subdivision, and they had sold lots within the subdivision at the time the Griffiths uh, which was a party sought to vacate the plat and then held in order to vacate the plat.

All owners of lots and the plat had to join in a written instrument duly executed and acknowledged and recorded, declaring the plat to be vacated.

That all being said, I have not had an opportunity to um visit with our city planner.

Um I think that there is some history and some nuance here that I'm unaware of.

Um so I I feel a little bit nervous giving a definitive uh legal opinion.

Um I would say, however, that uh my reading of the statute and and the subsequent case does give me pause and not to to portend to tell counsel what to do, but uh I certainly would appreciate some additional time to research this and come back with a solid answer.

Um, because I think uh this is frankly, it's a threshold question.

And if uh the determination is that there needs to be unanimity and and and approval, then I I my recommendation was that would be that this can't move forward from a legal standpoint, um, despite all of the technical uh uh testimony.

Um so anyway, kind of my answer, non-answer, um, but but I I that did give me some pause.

Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, city attorney, for your candid uh feedback.

Um I was also feevisly looking up definitions of plats, subdivisions, and you know, uh trying to make the most sense of it.

And so uh certainly if you still have questions or lingering hesitations, that to me um it is uh reason enough that I think we need to give this a little more time.

But um, since we're kind of in the middle of it and uh we have lots of folks interested in this conversation, uh I have one other question at the moment, and it's for our city engineer, um, if you don't mind, sir.

Uh we had lots of commenters referencing, I believe it was the March 2013 stormwater management master plan.

Took me a little while to find that up here, so I'm hoping we can make that a little easier to find in the future.

Uh it sounds like we were all having that problem.

I eventually got there.

Uh, but uh so um sounds like there were lots of folks arguing that the proposed development is in contrast to the findings of that plan.

It's not incredibly long, it looks like it's about 65 pages.

Uh but unfortunately, being up here uh kind of uh on the spot, I haven't had yet the chance to really digest it.

But considering how many people spoke to that this evening, I was wondering if you could provide some feedback on the stormwater master plan and its relationship to this proposed development.

Thank you.

Sure.

Thank you, Mayor Counselors.

So the 2013 Stormwater Master Plan did indicate that this pond area could have an improvement done to it, which would make it a formal detention pond.

Basically formalizing it to attenuate or reduce the amount of flow that's going through the culverts that around the same time with the uh I think before the uh the nine iron estates had a 48-inch culvert um put through it, um, that it I guess increases to about a 52-inch that goes into the golf course.

Um the that master plan did indicate that that there could be an improvement to reduce the flows that go through to the north um with formalizing this detention.

Now the the shape of the detention currently as it is right now is very similar to how it was in the master plan.

Um there's no doubt that um with the development of both these lots, that would change.

Um being that those two lots would be developed.

Um that drainage easement that is there, it's a 50-foot drainage easement that does go all the way through, north to south.

That would have to remain.

Um but but nonetheless, you know, the there would have to be some sort of a study that's done that looks at how these two lots impact what was done from the master plan.

Thank you, Mayor.

Follow up.

Thank you, Alex.

Appreciate it.

Um you're speaking to a need for an additional study, uh, how these proposed developments would affect that existing uh plan or those findings.

Um the uh developer spoke to a drainage study being done here in the near future.

Would that satisfy that?

You think is it would that cover that?

Or would it need to be above and beyond?

It should.

I know there's been part of the public that's been asking for an independent study.

Um however, I know um other than the stormwater master plan, which was um funded by the city, other stormwater studies that have been done typically have been funded by the developer um pursuing that work.

Thank you.

Yeah, go ahead.

And I'll get you can go, Counselor Pollock, and then I'll get Counselor Sweetie.

Thanks, Mayor.

Um Alex, can you talk a little bit about the in the memo?

Um, it looks like the determination was that um you believe that the existing drainage is adequate.

Can you talk about how your process to take the 2006 information?

I think was referenced to that memo.

Um considering today's the current developments, the differences between when that study was done and when what we see today to come to that conclusion.

Yes.

Uh thank you, counselor.

Um, so um in looking at, you know, from a high level, when we look at you know, plat reviews, um, we try and look at what's existing there now in in the terrain, in the stormwater infrastructure that's surrounding the area, um, and then what's going to be proposed.

Um as we look at that, we didn't see that there was a major significant impact to um the pattern of the drainage.

Um there would be some in the capacity, but that's what uh a new more detailed study would do, specifically noting the developments.

When we looked at um the 2006 study, um, and then even in the master plan, there was some uncertainty about what type of development would occur in those.

And and that's taken into account with some of the recommendations that are put forward in those studies.

Um so really from from looking at it at this point, um, we would require a study that would look at something that would look at specifically these two developments, and then what recommendations would come that would go into the details of the construction aspect of it, so that that could be applied and make sure that the drainage is not impacted negatively.

Go ahead.

Related follow-up.

Um so it's it sounds like when we make these types of comparisons, we compare to what we have now and what the impact of new development would be.

Uh, we've heard quite a number of um indications that there are already drainage problems.

So I'm my concern is that what we have now is is not adequate, and a study wouldn't necessarily be looking at that, it would be looking at the change, which is possibly based on what I've heard, not adequate in the first place.

So how do we contend with that in our planning efforts?

Uh mayor counselors, I I can't speak to like the groundwater issue specifically to the private lots there.

Um, however, um you know when we look at um development uh in a water scenario, we try to make sure that post-development, it does not um supersede pre-development um as far as stormwater runoff and everything.

So um that that would be our first goal is to make sure that what imperviousness is created by the surrounding area um and drainage from that um does not supersede um the um the impervious um of what it counts to the drainage there.

So anything that adds to the the volume is is equated by pre and post-development.

Does that make sense?

I hope it doesn't.

So um, but we we don't want anything that's created from the development to be more than what was before the development.

You're good.

Okay.

Counselor Sweeney.

Thank you, Mayor.

So um my understanding in it, I may be totally wrong, um, where Nicholas is now uh to the north of 29th, which has all been developed, uh not but not by Ben, but previously by Beckers.

But my understanding that the existing drainage uh was an open space originally.

I don't know if it was platted later with that 52 inch uh going down Nicholas uh or not, if you could speak to that first.

Sure, uh Mayor Counselor.

Uh so that's the I believe the uh the nine-iron estates um that was uh developed.

Um and then that the back nine, um I think uh now it's equal valley, but but that area there um that was platted and the recommendation from the the stormwater mass or not the storm the stormwater drainage study, um, I believe it was 2006, um, indicated to have that 48-inch culvert, that pipe as um a hundred-year storm flow that could uh basically convey the water to the north um and turns into a 52-inch as it outfalls uh into um the the municipal golf course.

Okay, and then Mayor, if I could follow up.

So on the uh what I believe is um applied in uh that was yeah, not I don't know which page 46, I think.

Uh so it's indicating the 50 foot uh right away which happens to line up on both ends with in my opinion to Nicholas.

Correct.

It it's right in that um that line.

And I think at one point there was a um a plat that showed that the street going all the way through there.

Um, but that is the that's the real close to the natural drainage pattern that goes through there.

And it it's not a right of way necessarily now.

It's it's a it's a 50-foot drainage easement, so it's just for conveyance, and that's what it acts as now.

Um it is not formalized detention, it acts to carry that water, and there are areas where um there's um a little bit of detention in there um because it's not you know a smooth pipe that flows the water directly south to north, um, but that area that 50 foot is dedicated for active conveyance of storm water that had historically been going through that area from north or from south to north.

drainage easement so it's just for conveyance and that's what it acts as now um it is not formalized detention it acts to carry that water and there are areas where um there's um a little bit of detention in there um because it's not you know a smooth pipe that flows the water directly south to north um but that area that 50 foot is dedicated for active conveyance of storm water that had historically been going through that area from north or from south to north so uh mayor if I could be back um so if um the developer uh down the line uh you've got these two lots on 29th there that is you know uh is in front of us uh tonight that planning and zoning said yes um and but it seems to me um to stop and how does he develop the rest of that drainage down the line might be 10 years from now um it may not totally be the intent but how does that work just like on the I guess that's nine irons below uh 29th to the north um would he have to come back to have that platted for additional lots and put a 48 inch if that's what the study shows uh and fill that all in so just i let me make sure i'm i'm hearing you correctly counselor so you're asking um if if these lots get developed then if um in the future um because this is it tract a is private um what would it take to develop everything in that area um it it would have to be i i'm just from i mean it have to be have a legal opinion but i mean looking at it looks like it would have to have um some sort of a replat if new lots had were going to be developed there um again stormwater is a huge consideration um in all of this um so all of those would have to be looked at again to verify that there's adequate capacity to handle large storm events and the negative impact on the surrounding properties new and that are already there are not outweighed um so I I really it wouldn't be recommended but it it is private um so um but I do think there has to be would have to have some sort of a replot or something some mechanism in order to do that again um because that that is that's a large tract right there that is designated for storm water um and it is it is private thank you vice mayor do you have anything anybody else yeah counselor bond um alex if you could um I don't want to get too much into speculation but I just want to clarify um so that that 50 foot that easement that goes through the middle that tract uh will that drain pipe be underground or above ground so so right now uh counselor just uh channel uh currently right now there there is no pipe in that tract a yeah currently that is all surface water yeah that is following that drainage pattern um at um palmer and then at 29th that is where the pipe um outlets into the south and then inlets on the north and then heads and both of those are 48 inch inlets on both sides anything that would be any new um development that would happen including lots one and two it would have to have a modification to that 48 inch storm culvert because that there's no way to let water convey through there um with how that is laid out so anything that would happen would have to have an extension to the south um and again this is our from our review that is a um a less detailed review from the platically from from construction um and construction details but um generally speaking that would have to have an extensions to capture water before it reaches around those properties um and there would have to be some armoring and some um some grading done in order to um alleviate that um that from any any negative impact to those those properties right there that are proposed okay thank you i've got vice mayor first and then i'll come to you okay vice mayor uh thank you mayor thanks alex for sitting up here and let us grill you uh this is all good stuff though um i really appreciated counselor pollock's question earlier and uh

Um and there would have to be some armoring and some um some grading done in order to um alleviate that um that from any any negative impact to those those properties right there that are proposed.

Thank you.

I've got vice mayor first, and then I'll come to you.

Okay, Vice Mayor.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Thanks, Alex, for sitting up here and uh letn's grill you.

Uh this is all good stuff though.

Um I really appreciated Counselor Pollock's question earlier, and um I'm not sure I'm quite satisfied or clarified.

Um, you know, uh I think the antenna for a question is um what was the initial analysis before any development took place up there, what what did the analysis look like from a stormwater or groundwater perspective?

Um, because I think the point was that whatever it was at that time was not um satisfactory enough.

You know, we we've heard all these anecdotes this evening of people having water issues, and so perhaps this is an issue that is outside the scope of this current conversation and would require a future agenda item for another work session.

But I am curious what that analysis looks like before any development takes place regarding uh groundwater, um stormwater drainage, because it sounds like at least in this case, it wasn't satisfactory.

Um and so um I guess that's my question uh because it sounds like there might be um uh uh potential to do things better in the future.

So uh do you mind speaking to that?

Yeah, no, no worries, and I can um I can get back to it.

So so definitely um when um that there is a geotechnical study that is done.

And in those geotechnical studies, um they do um take borings of the soils in there and they do um indicate groundwater that is there existing.

Um so that is um on a um a soils perspective um to see what soils are there, what it encompasses, and then it also relates to how um the homes are built as far as the foundations that are put in place.

Um that has to be done on I I believe all developments.

Um there has to be some sort of geotechnical study done in order to understand that.

This area is a a natural drainage.

So um there is groundwater here.

This this area I don't believe is a flood zone, um uh a flooded area.

Um I I don't think it's it's that at that level.

Um, but it is an area where there's historic drainage that comes through there.

Um and that can potentially affect groundwater um for the surrounding area.

Um however, um I believe that in the development here with um with the the geotechnicals done, um, and what I've been um associated with, which is Eagle Valley One, um, those geotechnical studies indicated that homes could be built there without a negative impact to the groundwater.

Now that's in the more recent development.

In the other development, I I haven't looked into that.

Um I haven't looked at the the um the previous geotechnical studies or anything like that, like the nineer states or um the back nine.

Um but sometimes it's localized.

Um sometimes it's part of a bigger watershed that's underground.

Um I don't know what that is specifically.

Um but but as far as I know, in most um, well, as a requirement for building a lot, there has to be some um indication of the integrity of the existing soils that are being built upon so that the structure can be built with integrity.

So um, so there's no no major issues in that that does include groundwater.

Okay.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh no additional questions.

Uh and I I want to hear from uh Councilor Bond and anyone else that has comments, but I you know, I do think we've heard enough public comment uh this evening.

Certainly for me myself, there's enough lingering questions.

Uh sounds like the city attorney has some homework he'd like to do.

I would certainly like the opportunity to really digest our stormwater master plan and um kind of analyze how that fits in with the proposed development.

I do think it says a lot that uh even the folks opposed to this project uh this evening uh sing high praises of uh the uh gentleman here uh proposing this project and the quality of homesy bills.

Uh so I think that uh absolutely says something.

Uh, but there's enough lingering questions uh for me that uh I don't feel informed enough or prepared to make a conversation make a decision this evening.

And so I I would hope that uh my colleagues and I would uh you know table this at least for another meeting to give us a little bit more time to get some questions answered and um you know take in all this information that we've got.

So thank you.

I'm gonna go with Counselor Sweeney for our last uh part of that just because we're running on time here, um, but I'll make a comment.

So counselor Sweeney.

So I want to make it clear that I uh I don't know what the intention is.

And when I asked the developer, you know, the specific question of extending Nicholas um in basically the reply was, you know, couldn't say whatever.

Um which is totally understandable.

Um he is um at least according to the testimony that was giving at planning planning and zoning, and that's all I'm going by.

Um he doesn't intend uh he um to develop further these would be million dollar plus homes with a view of the mountain.

However, um what the other thing that that concerns me is um how what are the soils with this retention area, you know, is there Cody shale?

How deep?

Um obviously they're gonna have to put in some strenuous uh stem or uh detention concrete quite thick, uh quite deep, in my opinion, um, having built uh a stem wall that had to go quite deep to protect another structure and a whole uh pool uh swimming pool weight, uh, but pressing against it down along the river um with different hydrology mix.

Um, but do you will the developer have to come back to city engineering for those STEM?

I'll call them a STEM wall, uh, which would be to the south of the lot one and two uh for the divert and hold those uh um basically lots with less jeopardy.

Mayor counselors, uh typically uh you know, for for private lots, um we we can make recommendations to to how it's built.

Um I I certainly agree that um any time you have uh fill material, um, the foundations of any structure that is put there um even the soil that is filled um needs to be retained and and um and built um robustly.

Um the we what uh we intend to do um and what we typically do is you know in a plat review, make comments um to what um to what we think is is needed um if if the development is needed, um and then if it gets approved, um then um we uh provide a permit and we provide um uh requirements of that permit that get more detailed um in the construction aspect of it.

And um we would ask to see how the the armoring, the grading, everything is done um that can be protected there um and to look at that from from an engineering side.

Um the on the on the the lot side um that it would part of the to be part of the um the building department would help have to help look at that um and look at um what is built and how how it's built.

Thank you, Alex.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you.

So before we um I'll make a motion, um, what we need to do next.

There's a couple things I just want to um address.

First of all, I want to make it very clear that this is this tonight in the decision of this council, whether it's um a table or whatnot is not about being asked to anti or against development or anti-business um or anti-private property.

I want to make that very, very clear.

What it's not also is neighborhood um individuals and neighbors coming together because of their emotions are too high.

Um, or maybe they're not knowledgeable enough.

They have concerns.

They brought that to us, and I think that's going to be an important understanding of what's going on, and we should be heard.

I think our focus, my focus tonight is about process, it's about risk management and compliance with our adopted plans.

I don't think we have all that information.

I think this warrants us to table it tonight.

We're looking at technical and process concerns, risk and liability considerations, consistency with adopted city policy, responsive developer contracts um response, um, of how we deal with those things.

What does that look like for us in the coming um weeks?

So I think it's going to be very important for us to look at that.

Um I also want to make it very clear that this is not an admonishment of P and Z or our city staff.

I think our city staff are top-notch.

I've said that many, many times, and I think our PNZ is um is is amazing.

Um, but I don't think we have enough information.

Uh and so um to me, um, I think we should table that tonight to get more information.

Yeah, Mr.

City attorney.

Uh thank you, Mayor and Council.

So just to kind of a procedural point, I I've heard the term table thrown up.

So, what do we need to do, sir?

That was my next question.

So, tabling um would be a non-debatable motion that would table it indefinitely.

Um motion to postpone to a date certain is debatable.

Um, and that would that would delay the decision to uh a specific date in the future.

And I and I would defer to our city manager.

I think um postpone it to a date certain would be our preference, but uh I'll defer to to our city manager to speak to that.

Yeah.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, yes, I I concur we'd like a date certain council, and I'd be willing to recommend one.

Um like that.

Great.

And I think yeah, I would like it to be a date certain as well.

I think uh Mr.

Hanslett um deserves that as a developer, uh, to give him the opportunity, obviously, for time and so forth.

We understand that time is money.

Um so that's your recommendation for a time to table for a day certain or postpone, sorry.

Don't say table.

Right.

Um, yes, Mayor, we I would recommend you postpone to February 3rd based on what we've heard so far this evening.

Gives us about a month.

Um, we would also have the potential to come back to you in a work session and address more fully some of the concerns and assuage your worries, I guess, uh, if we're able.

Okay.

Counselor Sweeney.

I would appreciate that.

Um and uh, but I don't know if February 3rd gives enough staff time to gather everything together.

It would possibly um give time for the developer to finish his study, but that's gonna be tight.

Um I don't I don't know, and I totally agree with you.

Um I am a big uh property personal property rights advocate and development and um, but at the same time, um I have to listen to other constituents that have concerns over all of this, and you know, some from a previous developer had been promised nobody's gonna build behind here because it's a detention area.

Um they'll have a great view of uh into a living room or a bathroom off their back deck of the neighboring property.

Um but if that comes to pass, but I I too would agree we need more information.

I just don't know if February 3rd's gonna be it may be too quick.

Madam City Manager.

Thank you.

Um, Mayor through you, Counselor Sweeney.

Um very appropriate observations.

Um, I know the mayor's summary, I guess.

I think is what you were trying to accomplish, summary of the major categories of concern that we've heard tonight process.

So I do believe that staff can adequately update you on process in the next four weeks, four weeks.

Um the second item was compliance with adopted city policies and plans.

I think that we can adequately uh apprise you of that within the next four weeks.

Um there's discussion of risk management, and I think that that uh Rich is this this gap that you heard your city engineer start to talk about at the end of his uh presentation, which was moving from plan level or parcel level review and stormwater into uh actual construction and building permitting.

weeks um the second item was compliance with adopted city policies and plans i think that we can adequately uh apprise you of that within the next four weeks um there's discussion of risk management and i think that that uh riches this this gap that you heard your city engineer start to talk about at the end of his uh presentation which was moving from plan level or parcel level review and storm water into uh actual construction and building permitting so i think we can talk through at least that process and and make sure that council uh understand the points in development where those various levels of review occur and differentiate disentagle groundwater from stormwater management flows so we can do that uh i will also offer in my experience developers particularly this time of year um are a little bit anxious to understand if they have a green light to move forward with development in springs so for that reason that's why I offered four weeks as a starting point um I would also note that if uh we are unable to satisfy all of your questions in that four week time frame we could certainly uh move that item back to the floor this is my understanding our city attorney and our city clerk are gonna check me if I'm wrong on Roberts rules uh but you must move that motion on the date to which you postponed for certain but you could always table it again I believe and uh excuse me postpone now mayor you got me saying unable but um I think you could re-postpone it if you would so choose if we haven't satisfied all of your concerns and answered your questions by that time from a staff standpoint good okay so it sounds like moving forward if the council um is okay with postponing to a date certain which it sounds like um the madam city manager said that uh february third is doable um if we don't get enough information then we can also move forward to find out um if we need more information or what what that may be um so it sounds like that that will be the case um just want to let the residents that are here um the developer that is here as well my final comment is this is a um the process of government and this is one of the things that safeguards us when we talk about issues and concerns and so um I want to thank both the developer and I want to thank the uh residents for coming here tonight and expressing their concerns um we certainly want to um be thoughtful um and use common sense we make these decisions so we'll mayor let you know mayor yes we need a formal motion and second and a vote yeah which you might I would make a motion that we postpone to the third agenda item 10 dot a non-consent non-consent resolution for Eagle Valley edition number three subdivision agreement any seconds discussion yep counselor thanks mayor just considering the public interest and how much engagement we've had already I just want to make sure folks are aware that uh in addition to February 3rd we'll have another regular meeting on the 20th it won't be on our agenda but you could certainly take advantage of the public comment period if you felt like you wanted to speak to it again before then thanks Mayor yes sorry I'm my script okay go ahead um mayor the the only problem I've got with February 3rd that's a regular full council meeting so what's the concept of uh staff all would we need a work full works full work session go ahead yep um looking behind me Jimmy sorry yes sorry uh thank you mayor um I hope to visit with staff tomorrow to maybe uh rearrange our schedule a little bit for the January 27th work session possibly January 20th work session as you heard from council member gamro but those are the two opportunities for work session where you can unpack this a little more fully and with less procedure um so I think we can move a few items on the 27th out based on just some quick conversation here at the dais um and we will let you know but we will definitely give you an opportunity in a work session to really flush through this some more that makes sense counselor thank you mayor thank you uh city manager my only problem with I'm I mean we need a work session without a doubt my only problem is with a work session um we can't hear testimony uh for or against and unless they're part of the presentation so that's the only only problem so you know once it does come back to council at a regular meeting that that would be the only opportunity that the public would have to weigh in with the results so yeah okay thank you call for the question thank you okay cast your vote please record the vote with all counselors voting aye the motion passes thank you everyone but uh before we move on both let these guys move out oh thank you well we'll take a short recess where everybody filters so if you need to use a restroom

I know nobody else is here.

Except for oil city.

Oil city's the only one here.

Let's go ahead and move along.

Council now consider consent resolutions.

Slib or for slip for the purpose of the San North Platte Sanitary Sewer Interceptor Rehabilitation Phase Two Project.

Authorizing a release agreement between the City of Casper, Wyoming, and Mountain West Technologies Corporation.

10 B7, authorizing a memorandum of understanding with the Wyoming Department of Transportation for mowing maintenance, litter abatement, and weed control and designated state rights of way within Casper City limits.

10 B8, approving amendment number two to the purchase and sale agreement with Charles E.

Piercell Chapter Isaac Walton League of America that extends the time timeline for property repairs.

10 B9 authorizing amendment number one to the fiscal year 2023 to 2028, five-year memorandum of understanding between the city of Casper, Wyoming, and then Natrona County School District regarding joint facility use.

10 B 10 authorizing amendment number one to the fiscal year 2023 to 2028.

Five-year memorandum of understanding between the City of Casper, Wyoming, and then Trona County School District regarding joint facility use for the Casper after school program for education and recreation.

And 10 B11, authorizing a procurement of goods agreement with Meta Technologies Incorporated for the 2025 Solid Waste Portable Litter Fencing Project.

Thank you.

The Chair doesn't attend a motion to adopt the consent agenda items just read.

So moved.

Move by Councillor Pollock, seconded by Councillor Bond.

Um comment on any of these items.

No.

Excuse me.

Any abstentions or nay votes from the council?

Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

With all counselors voting aye, the motion passes.

Council will now discuss amended action item regarding the designation of the city's official newspaper newspapers for 2026.

Because this is not on the consent agenda, it will be open for discussion by the council.

Please read them by title only.

Designating the Casper Star Tribune and Oil City Weekly as the city's official newspapers for the calendar year 2026.

Chair Duntertain a motion to approve the consent minute action agenda items just read.

Move by Councillor McIntosh, seconded by Councillor Sweeney.

Yes, although I'm going to engage some others to help with that report if I can there.

So as you know, you must designate a newspaper each year.

Or uh if it could be multiple, and also to look into a little bit of uh the options in terms of the greatest reach for maximum effectiveness to get information to the public and also the cost of publication.

Um I worked with the city clerk and the city attorney assisted us well with legal review, and these two fielded a meeting yesterday to gather some of that information.

I was not able to join them and get out of other meetings, so I would like to ask them to give you information that they were able to uncover, and of course, the city attorney will weigh in on the legalities of designating newspapers.

Thank you.

Great.

Thank you, Mayor.

Counselors.

Uh, so your city clerk Ms.

Ainsworth and I had the opportunity to meet with Sean Hauke and uh a couple members of his staff from Oil City.

Yesterday, as I'm sure you're aware, and as the memo states, wanting state statute requires a municipality to designate a legal newspaper, um, and that's contained within 1511.

Um we did uh discuss this internally in my office, and I'm of the opinion that um it requires at least a uh legal newspaper does not prohibit us from naming multiple.

I believe that uh back in the day when we had the journal courier, there was some precedent for the city designating two.

Um, and specifically uh 1511 uh speaks to the publication of the minutes of regular and special meetings, salaries once a year, um but there are a host of other statutes that require publication, um anything from um planning and zoning uh uh issues to uh liquor license renewals.

Um there is a uh requirement that to be a legal newspaper, there'll be a hard copy published, um which oil city began doing uh approximately six months ago.

Um they have a once uh a week uh hard copy that is distributed uh both through a subscription but also um at various uh points throughout uh the city of Casper.

And so it is my opinion after meeting um with Mr.

Hauke and his staff that um oil city does now uh meet the criteria uh set out in statute to to be designated as a uh legal newspaper.

Um you may also note that in 183519 uh there is a statute that talks about um for the county uh to to utilize a paper, it has to be publishing for 52 weeks.

Um one, I don't believe that uh that binds the city, but even if it did, I would argue that they've been publishing electronically prior to that.

Um and then uh uh so so I I feel that they do uh meet the criteria.

Um after discussing uh internally, um we feel that it's probably in the city's best interest uh to designate both the Casper Star Tribune and Oil City as legal newspapers uh for the city of Casper.

Uh Mr.

Alck did indicate that they're not quite set up to start taking um legal notices, but they could be uh in as soon as 30 days.

Um they have not uh uh solidified their rate schedule.

Um and so uh what we would request uh recommend to council is to designate them both, and then when oil city is prepared and ready to take public um notices, uh staff can decide what makes the most sense in terms of the cost benefit analysis, um going with the the cheaper option.

I I would also uh add that in our discussion yesterday, um it sounds like oil city is is printing 3,000 3500 papers a week, um once a week, uh, which uh is uh a fair bit more than what the Casper Star Tribune is uh publishing, although they do publish multiple times a week.

Um and they have nearly 200 um uh subscriptions at this point, uh even though that's a new uh uh fairly new service for Oil City.

Um and the Casper Star Tribune at this point has somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 um subscriptions in intronic county.

So um we we feel that uh they oh and and finally um oil city uh indicated that they would uh be putting them on their electronic platform, and as you may know, they're not behind a paywall, um, which the Casper Star Tribune is.

Um so I think there's an argument to be made that uh utilizing Oil City could actually improve the reach of our notices um with our citizens.

So uh with that, that would be our recommendation to designate them both, and certainly uh happy to stand for any questions you might have.

Questions, yep, I'll start over here.

Go ahead.

Counselor Pollock Thank you, Mayor.

Um not a legal question as much as a technical question.

If we have two publications that we can be utilizing, is do you imagine it working that um we we get bids from both and then select one that we use through the year or that we would be bouncing back and forth as um certain circumstances dictated?

Yes, I was imagining that we would compare their legal ad fees.

So right now um oil city does not have a legal ad fee established.

So once they do, I think we would just compare and just see which one is more cost effective.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yep.

And so once that comparison was done, we would presumably select the and carry forward with that through the year, unless these changed or we needed to re-evaluate.

Yes.

And I believe oil city will be cheaper.

They said that they were they wanted to be competitive and they thought they would be at 75% of the cost of the start tribune, but we don't know yet because we haven't received their prices.

So Sweeney, okay, you mic.

Um thank you, Mayor.

So um in your reading uh does subscription base in this in the state statute.

Uh mayor counselor, it it talks about uh um published and and regularly distributed within the community in the city.

And so, you know, whether it's it's um through a subscription or whether it's made available, I I think it's really kind of the total total readership.

I and so I'm sure that's a moving target in terms of what those numbers are from week to week, month to month.

Um, but but what we've been presented with, um, I'm satisfied that that you know both both publications would meet the minimum requirements set by statute.

Thank you.

Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor.

I got Vice Mayor, then I'll get you.

Thank you.

Uh appreciate it.

I've I've brought this up multiple times during my tenure on council, and kind of the language of statute has always kind of prohibited us from exploring other options.

It's very frustrating for me that that statute hasn't changed for 40, 50 years, uh, considering how quickly the media landscape changes and uh uh trends of how uh viewership and uh uh you know folks consume media and get their information, it's changed drastically since the 70s and 80s, and so I think we need to change accordingly.

Uh and as the city attorney pointed out, there's some things that have changed recently as far as uh oil city publishing a hard copy.

And um, yeah, so I'm glad we're having this analysis.

We have a responsibility as counselors to be not only fiscally responsible, but also as transparent as possible and making sure that the things that we're doing, the decisions we're making, uh, the uh, you know, uh requests for proposals that we're uh publishing are reaching as many people as possible.

And so I'm looking forward to this analysis and um you know looking forward to it as all.

Thank you.

Counselor Bond.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh my question was along the same lines too about um and and I'm wondering if this will turn up in your in your investigation of her research of you know whether they have like I for example, I I've subscribed to both, but I imagine there's folks in the community that don't.

And so is there one, I mean, and I was particularly interested in that cut in your comment, I think Eric or maybe Amanda about the you know the reach of the of the newspaper and so forth that um whether there's you know overlap or you know, I guess the the broadest reach.

And to me, it seems like the broadest reach is you know, there's probably gonna be folks the majority may be subscribed to one but not the other.

And so in that in that vein, I I would kind of error.

Hopefully, it'll turn up we could get some consensus around that.

But that would be my preferences to you know to again go for the broadest reach and broadest distribution possible, but that's not not necessarily as important as consideration.

So thank you.

Any other discussion?

Not to rehash what everybody has said, but I agree.

I think this is also a question of of fiduciary responsibility, um, competitive um prices.

I think that's important for us to cons to consider.

Um, especially with the um the high level that the oil city has grown as well um and continues to grow.

So um I'm comfortable with it.

Okay, it's true vote.

Oh, there's a motion.

Jeez, Louise Ray.

You there was a motion already.

Oh, that's right.

Please cast your vote, sorry.

I did, didn't I?

Please record the vote.

City managers probably think, what did I get myself into with this mayor?

That's my first time being mayor.

Jeez.

Okay, please read the consent minute action titles.

11B1 reappointing Mary Beth Plochek and Joe Hutch Hutchinson to the Casper Planning and Zoning Commission for three-year terms expiring December 21st, 2027.

11B2 approving the appointment of Brett Hobza to the Casper Historic Preservation Commission, and 11B3 acknowledging receipt of financial disclosure information from city officials with public fund investment responsibility for calendar year 2026.

Thank you.

The chair entertained a motion to approve the consent minute action agenda items just read.

Move by uh counselor Pollock, seconded by the vice mayor.

Any abstentions or nay votes?

Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

This time we ask counselors to bring forward any relevant concerns or items of interest because of time.

Um I would ask you to see if you could limit it for about five minutes, if you could for a few comments.

I know maybe we hold something to the next next time over, um, just because it's getting late, we still have an executive session.

So I'll start with you, Counselor Lartson.

Council Bond.

Counselor Sweeney.

So highlights, just the highlights, Sweeney.

Okay.

So we can your microphone's not up.

Thank you.

Um, but sorry, Charlie.

Um but uh WC Map, uh great great individual, long time um 70 some year resident of Casper graduated from NC in uh uh great great individual.

Um also uh uh on Saturday um tended the biker ball, uh Vietnam vets, uh great turnout, uh super super great thing.

Uh uh great turnout, uh super great thing.

Um and then also on Saturday, uh visited a number of constituents up uh with the development and tried to get the lay of the land.

Uh really appreciate council's uh willingness to listen to their concerns, the developers' concerns.

Um, and um I think we're heading in a good direction.

Um I too want to make note uh staff and our planning and zoning commission.

None of my comments should be taken against uh any of them.

Um they were doing exactly what they're supposed to, uh notification, and I tried to point that out during uh some of my questions.

Um Monday um uh uh attended uh our former superintendent of uh uh schools, Judy Catchpole's funeral and uh reception.

It was uh attended by uh Governor uh Gordon uh presented flags uh to uh the family.

Um Governor Garager was there, and Governor Sullivan was there.

And um Senator Barrasso amazingly, I don't know how he does it, but he was there also.

Um wonderful service, and um all nine grandchildren um did a poem.

Um and it it was really an ex excellent uh memorial and celebration for Judy.

Um thanks for the invitation to the Midwest Avenue um uh opening and really want to compliment uh uh the staff uh for putting all that together.

Um and uh uh the other thing I'd really want to mention is uh Darren Homar's commitment to the Yellowstone District and uh that new facility, he didn't have to put brick on the outside in uh he could have done a metal building if he wanted to, um, and probably still had design standards, but he went over and above and it's a beautiful uh facility.

So I hope he does well with that and his commitment to the city of Casper.

Um also yesterday afternoon attended uh uh DCBA uh had kind of a planning session, which was very good.

Today uh attended senior district um uh meeting as uh community lay liaison and uh uh all three agencies kind of presented um what the needs are going to be in the future, uh more to come.

Uh lastly, uh uh just like to mention that um appropriations uh is meeting uh uh this week in in particular today.

They talked uh the Department of Health uh went through their the Rural Transformation Act that uh we the state of Wyoming through their good efforts and communities inputs across the state.

Uh we were awarded uh the state of Wyoming was awarded 205 million those announcements came um while I was back in Pennsylvania and um Pennsylvania received 193 million, and if you look at a per capita basis on what our health department in our state produced, now it's up to the appropriations committee and the legislature, which I'm concerned about uh with the bear care um and the comments that were made by appropriations today.

So I encourage citizens to get involved and talk to their legislators to move that forward.

Lastly, I'd like to thank our uh former vice mayor for his dedication and his continued dedication and service and uh appreciate his service and trying to prop the mayor up at every chance he had.

So thank you, Mike.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Sweeney.

You counselor Pollock.

Um I have two meetings forthcoming that I'll update you on next week, but didn't really have anything last week with the holidays, so nothing to add for now.

Thank you.

Council Haskins.

Oh, yeah.

That's over there now.

I feel like I have a torch to carry.

I'm kidding.

I actually only have one thing.

Public health falls on a work session, so I'm digging deep for them this time.

There are multiple places in town, including public health and all your pharmacies that still have flu shots available.

It's not too late to get a flu shot.

Please get a flu shot.

Casper has the flu.

That will not kill you, but the flu might.

There's my PSA and my soapbox.

That is all.

Thank you, Counselor.

Appreciate that.

Counselor Jensen.

Well, I had an epiphany.

Nothing really.

Today's the epipathy.

It is true.

I had to.

Very good.

Anyways, mine is to defer to Kyle because I know he's gonna take up my minutes.

But I don't know.

I did um just attend it, and uh Sweeney made mention of it too, but the uh open house or ribbon cutting over at Home Axe and for Midwest Avenue.

So that was um a pleasure to be there and exciting, and it's just the transformation has been miraculous over that area from when I started running that thing to three crowns, you know, and it was dodging potholes with a stroller and to see that nice uh pedestrian area now and have the crosswalks and everything.

It's been amazing.

So um excited for what's more to come.

So that's it.

Councilor Macintosh.

Yeah, uh just want to thank Kyle for stepping up and taking over as Vice Mayor.

The hardest part is making sure that Ray stays on task with but you will do a great job and uh thank you everybody for uh the opportunity that I had to serve last year.

Vice Mayor.

Mayor, I don't have any topics.

Kyle had an amazing woo.

Sorry, he had an amazing speaking part, and he did well as his first role as vice mayor.

Anyone's ever heard the best unfortunately didn't get it on video.

Oh, you're kidding.

But it was really good.

I had a small speaking part, and it was great.

All right, we'll run uh running off the cross.

Everybody's safe.

All right.

Um, the only thing I've got is um a swearing in next Monday um for place, just one person, Chief.

Just one.

Um within the last two weeks I've done two, so that's amazing.

Thank you.

Um the only other thing that I really would just like to wrap up and just say thank you to uh counselor Macintosh for the last year.

Um was great working with him, and he indeed kept me in line um and kept me kept me on on task.

Uh so you have a lot of work ahead of you, Vice Mayor.

The next uh meeting of the city council will be a work session to be held at 4 30 p.m.

on Tuesday, January 13th, and a regular council meeting to be held at 6 p.m.

on Tuesday, January 20th.

A notice of an executive session to take place at this date and during this meeting was given.

We have matters to discuss related to personnel.

The chair to entertain a motion to adjourn the uh into the executive session and the the conclusion of the executive session to reconvene the regular meeting solely for purposes of adjournment of this regular meeting.

Move by counselor bond, seconded by counselor Pollock.

There are a majority of counselors present, and a motion to adjourn to an executive session has been moved and seconded.

This motion requires a two-thirds majority of the council present.

Please cast your vote.

Please record the vote.

With all counselors voting aye, the motion passes.

A greater than two-thirds majority of the council present present voted.