Okay, good evening.

Welcome to the Historic District Commission for Tuesday, August 12th.

I'm gonna start with a roll call.

Laura.

Present.

Josh.

Present.

Glenn.

Present.

And the Chair Brian is present.

David, Nancy, and Don are not here this evening.

I'd like to uh ask for an approval of the agenda.

Um any changes to the agenda for this evening.

If there are none, commissioners, if you after I say um, do we approve the agenda?

If you would please say aye.

Do you approve the agenda?

Aye.

Great.

So the agenda is approved.

Um Anna Scott, are there any announcements tonight?

Um yes, um, we're going to remind the commission that we still need a commissioner to do training to fulfill our CLG or certified local government training requirement by the end of September.

Um we've shared a link to the state's website that has training opportunities if you do like a webinar.

I think you have to watch three of them and then fill out the virtual training um participation form, which we can share out again if you if you need a copy in that.

And it's it's one commissioner needs to take care of that before the end of September.

Okay.

Um and uh we'll also remind you to speak into the microphones.

Um just get familiar with it.

Yep, green light on.

No green light, it's not on.

Um thank you, Sharnika.

Uh, any petitions this evening?

No.

Okay.

Uh I do think we need to read the public charge.

So I actually think you all will read a section and then I'll read a section.

Yeah.

So I'll let you go ahead and take care of that, please.

I'll now read into the record the following.

The commission operates under NC General Statutes 160 D-940, which gives local governments historic preservation authority and the Chapel Hill land use management ordinance, including Article 3, which establish the local historic districts and sets forth regulations governing them.

And the Chapel Hill Historic District's design principles and standards, which sets forth standards for changes in the historic districts and the rules of procedure adopted by the Chapel Hill Historic District Commission, as well as the significance reports from all three historic districts and photos.

I also call to your attention each of the applications and associated materials in your agenda packet.

All of these items are hereby entered into the record.

Thank you.

Thank you, Anna Scott.

And I'll now read the public charge.

The advisory body pledges its respect to the public.

The body asks the public to conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner, both with the body and with the fellow members of the public.

Should any member of the body or any member of the public fail to observe this charge at any time?

The chair will ask the offending person to leave the meeting until that individual regains personal control.

Should decorum fail to be restored, the chair will resess the meeting until a genuine commitment to this public charge is observed.

Okay.

So Sharnika distributed a copy of the agenda to the commissioners in advance of the meeting.

Approval of the minutes from the June 10th meeting is the first item on the agenda for approval.

Were there any comments on those minutes?

If not, I'd ask for a motion to approve.

I move that we approve the minutes of the June 10th meeting.

Thank you, Josh.

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Uh the chair votes aye.

So that passes unanimously.

Thank you.

Um the administrative certificates of appropriateness uh were really there for information purposes.

Was there anything we needed to clarify on those?

No.

Okay, and just for for Laura and for Glenn, those are um items that staff approves uh because they're within their permission to approve them.

Larger things come to the commission.

So that's really what those notes are in the in the agenda.

Okay, with that in mind, I'd like to start with new business, and we're gonna start with 603 East Franklin Street.

If you're here for that application, if you'd please join us at the podium.

Thank you.

Sorry, I'm looking to see if so you can sign this one.

Okay.

Good evening.

Hello.

Once Anna Scott's got you set up, there we go.

So this is while uh they're getting set up.

Do you want to do conflicts of interest?

Sure amongst the board.

So uh we ask about conflicts of interest, which are ex parte communication with the applicants or any unauthorized site visits.

Does anybody need to disclose perfect?

No.

No, we do need to be able to do that.

Thank you for the reminder to use the cursor.

Shoot over that way.

I'm afraid of mine.

So just back and forth.

Okay, perfect.

And and we have a panel uh on the podium, so we're not looking at your knees, we're just looking at this podium, even though it's protracted here also, just if that's a little disconcerting for you.

Uh so I'm gonna read a statement, and if you would if you agree with that statement, say I so affirm and state your name, please.

Uh I affirm that the evidence I shall give to the Historic District Commission on the referenced application 603 East Franklin Street uh shall be the truth and nothing but the truth I so affirm.

Yes, I so as far.

And your name is John Fuller.

Sorry, the last name.

John Fuller.

Fuller.

Thank you, Mr.

Fuller.

Please go ahead.

Sure.

My name is John Fuller.

I'm with with Renewal by Anderson here of the Carolinas.

Um nice to see you all, committee members.

I'm here for the Historic District.

So I'm here on behalf of Mr.

and Mrs.

Rich at 403 East Franklin Street.

They have a home here in the Rosemary Franklin Street Historic District that you're familiar with.

They have the front facing side of their home, has a few windows there that are showing signs of deterioration.

One window in particular we're going to address tonight has significant deterioration to the point to where it does need to be fully replaced.

I have been out to the home a few times, fully inspected.

Our team and our company has been out to the home a few times and fully inspected.

Um I'll get into those details as far as far as why it needs to be replaced, and that a simple repair or just something just fixing it won't suffice.

And then our proposed plan for Mr.

and Mrs.

Rich for you to approve, hopefully.

This is the home here at 603 East Franklin Street.

Um you can see it's it's a very nice value home, value property.

We want to put a good high-quality window back in the unit.

Um we don't want them to go with something that's just gonna take away value from your community and and and more importantly, you know, themselves as the homeowners there.

Um you can't see the unit too well, but I'll zoom in here in a second.

This is just the plot um map for your uh information in case you need it.

Um as far as going back with the unit we're proposing, um, the unit that we're proposing to go back with is a premium high quality window replacement.

It's a wood composite material, so it's made out of wood.

It's not 100% wood so that it won't rot in the future.

That way they don't have problems.

But the idea with renewal by Anderson is we wanted to create a window that's as beautiful as a wood window for these types of applications, but doesn't have the problems that they could potentially face in the future by putting something else back in there that that would rot.

Um it's gonna have the same distinctive look as their current window.

Um we have uh something called FDL grills that's gonna be on the window.

Um so it's gonna have the same distinct beauty of the existing windows, just the a modern unit.

Um this is the specific window unit.

It's we have it uh numbered there as 101.

It's just to the right of their um stoop there.

Um and you can't see it yet, but I'll zoom in in a minute and you'll be able to see the specific damage on on that unit.

Um the proposed window is going back with an exact match, a double what we call a double-hung window with a reverse cottage sash ratio.

And then all of our windows are joined using mortison tin and joints, like a high quality piece of wood furniture, something you'd see that this home probably has throughout the entire home is those type of joints for the construction.

The interior and exterior finish is gonna be our Anderson White, which will perfectly match.

The grill pattern is gonna match the existing units.

Um our craftsmen, carpenter craftsmen, they can replicate all of the wood trim on the exterior so that everything perfectly matches.

Um this is a rendering of the two windows, a side profile, and then also the uh the front profile with all the specifics.

The grill pattern is gonna match as well.

We're using a fibrox exterior grill pattern that will never rot.

Interior wood grill pattern to keep the historic value and to keep the look of the window just as beautiful as it is today, but something that's gonna provide value for the homeowner to last a lot much longer.

Of course, we've reviewed all the applicable um code enforcement and design enforcement for this project, and and these are kind of included here.

We did confirm that the water infiltration in their home is not only destroying the exterior of the of the wood trim, but it's also getting into the wall of the property.

That's why just a simple fix on the outside or a simple repair won't suffice in this case.

Again, going back to the same unit.

Some beginning stages, what it looks like beginning stages from this distance of the exterior right, but again, that water infiltration is going down into that opening.

This is an interior picture of the same window.

And zooming in, we're going to zoom in here.

This is the interior where you can actually see that water infiltration is going into the home.

There you can see the uh lower sash, technically called sash two, of the um of the window also showing that rot.

Um so going into the type of material that we're we're uh proposing to replace this with.

This is our um renewal by Anderson Fibrex material.

It's a hundred percent solid composite material made out of reclaimed wood that we reclaim from our own wood windows that we build.

It's a premium quality material that's gonna last the homeowner much longer than any type of wood replacement.

Modern wood is mostly soft growth pine growth pine.

That type of material rots very quickly, even after it's painted and things.

It'll still fail very quickly.

Um this is the material that we're proposing um to use for this project.

We've been approved to work with we've had approvals all throughout Chapel Hill, um, Hillsboro, uh, Buford, all over North Carolina, the Wilmington Historic District.

So we we have had approvals all over in the historic districts throughout the state.

Um that's pretty much what we're seeking approval for for Mr.

and Mrs.

Zrich.

Um I'm open to questions.

I know this is not probably a very common uh request, but I'm open to questions to see if I can help you guys in any way.

Thank you for the thoroughness of that.

Very helpful.

I'm gonna ask the commissioners if they have any clarifying questions.

I'll then ask you to take a seat.

We'll have a brief discussion and we'll make a decision.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Any commissioners have clarifying questions for Mr.

Fuller.

I have a quick one.

This is Contai, sorry I was late.

Um so I wasn't clear.

Are you gonna be replacing the head jam and seal materials?

Yes.

Okay.

Let me go back.

That is correct.

When you replace those, are you gonna replace sound like you're gonna replace them in kind?

You're gonna match the profiles and moldings and they're that's exactly correct.

That's correct.

And just clear for everyone here, it's uh SDL, so that means you have a bar in the middle as well as a frame on the outside and the inside.

Yes, yep.

And the frame you showed a picture of was kind of what I would call a putty shaped frame.

Is that what the actual profile of that mollium is gonna be?

Um talking about this picture.

Keep backing up there.

Um sorry, I've been further along.

It's okay.

There you go.

That one.

That one go one more.

One more.

Okay, two more.

There we go.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, that's what is that what the profile is actually gonna look like?

Pretty much.

This is a side cut, uh, Mr.

Tees.

So it's it's a side cut, so you're not really gonna see into the side like that.

Yeah, but that profile shape, yes, that is that is about what it looks like.

That's a nice shape for older windows to have that putty profile.

Yes.

These full divided light grills, uh they're they're the high end premium, it adds a lot of depth, it adds a lot of character.

It's something that we would use in this particular application.

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome.

So the one you're using, I can't read that exactly, but the um the mutton is uh is that three-eighths of an inch high?

Tim.

Um yeah, on the X it's uh three exterior.

Yeah, on the exterior, it's about three quarters of an inch.

Okay.

So it'll have a good shadow line.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Yep.

That's what I want to know.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

And from the exterior, it's going to look just like the other windows.

Yes, ma'am.

You know, so any time we replace one unit of anything, right?

Um, it's gonna look slightly different, but it's not gonna look like taking an old window and just moving it over.

You know, it's gonna look slightly different, but we're doing our absolute best to match it like for like all the exact exterior trim um like we talked about, and color and and shape and style.

But yeah, the overall shape and style will look exactly like that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Any other questions?

Okay.

Give us a few minutes.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Um from the public here to comment on this application.

Okay.

Uh we'll now entertain uh discussion with the commissioners.

Is there anything we feel like we need to discuss?

Anybody have anything they want to talk about before we go to a vote?

I appreciate how the remote application is.

Okay.

Quick question.

Uh, I'm new to the HTC.

Have we reviewed and approved window replacements before?

I'm just curious.

Yes.

Okay.

A lot.

Actually.

Okay.

Yeah.

I will say that I I do like the seven-eighths, the depth of the mountain on the outside, because I think that's going to come closest to replicating at least what most traditional muntains are like in windows.

I haven't looked at this house specifically, but I'm familiar with many historic um divided, true divided light windows.

And the muntains are pretty deep.

Um this one many times the the replacement windows have shallow muttons, almost flat bars.

Right.

And this case, this looks deep and it looks like it's going to come closest to replication.

Which gives you dimension on the window.

It gives you dimension and shadow.

Any other points of clarification?

Josh, I see you reaching for the Yeah, I can if you would.

Um I would move that the application is not incongruous with the special character of the historic district according to the application of the relevant provisions of LUMO and the HDC's design standards based on the facts that are presented in the record.

Can I get a second for Josh?

A second.

Thank you.

So Josh, uh put a motion forward, Laura put a second.

I'm going to take a vote if you would either say uh yay or nay.

Uh Laura.

Yay.

Josh?

Yay.

Glenn?

Yay.

John?

Yay.

And the chair votes yay.

Passes unanimously thank you very much.

Thank you, committee members, and thank you on behalf of Mr.

and Mrs.

Rich and Renewal Anderson.

Thank you.

Thanks very much.

We're going to move on to 208 Hillsborough Street.

So you did you want to say anything?

Is this you?

Okay.

You can go ahead and find your name here and print it and then fill out your email address.

While we're taking care of that, does anybody have any ex parte communication or unauthorized site visits to disclose thank you.

And so this is speaker mode.

This is what they're seeing down here.

And you can use the arrows to go back and forth to go forward and back.

Okay.

Perfect.

Hello.

Hello.

I'm going to read a brief statement, and if you agree with that statement, if you would say I so affirm and state your name after, please.

Shall be the truth and nothing but the truth, I so affirm.

I so affirm.

Jody Brown.

Thank you, Mr.

Brown.

Good evening.

I'm here.

I'm the architect on the project.

I'm representing the homeowners, uh, Fred McLaren and Avery Russell.

Avery is here if we have any questions for her.

Um this is a project on 208 Hillsboro.

Uh here's an overview of the house.

Uh it's a colonial revival home.

Um we think it dates to about 1910.

It shows up on the 1915 Sanborne maps.

Uh it's part of the historic district, obviously.

Uh it's uh it has a covered porch in the front.

It has a screen porch on the right-hand side, which has been converted into a sunroom, and it has an addition on the back, which we think was originally a porch that has been enclosed.

And it has an addition on the back, which we think was originally a porch that has been enclosed.

Here's a view of the back of the home.

What we're proposing is to do a primary suite addition.

There's currently not a bedroom on the first floor, so we want to do a primary suite addition in the back of the home, which would include a bedroom, a bathroom, a walk-in closet, and a small laundry area.

Here's a site plan of the property.

The gray area is the existing footprint, and you can see the small area that we're the small area that we're adding on to in the back.

The only change in the in the pavings and the stone walls are there's a stone path that currently goes through where our addition is proposed, and we're relocating that stone path around the new addition.

This is the existing plan.

So you can see the new construction in the upper right-hand corner to contain a bedroom, closet, bathroom, and a small laundry.

This is a view aerial view of the back of the house as it currently exists.

And then this is the proposed new addition.

You can see the primary suite addition here.

And there's also a small porch between the former screen porch and the new addition, which needs to get rebuilt, partly because of the geometries of the new addition and partly because it's it's starting to rot and needs need repair.

One more existing view, and there's a proposed of the addition.

One more existing view, and then the proposed addition.

So you you can't see it from the street.

From the side, the only thing on the this is the prominent side that you can see as you're walking down the street.

The only thing we're doing here is these two windows are currently aluminum sliders.

Um, and we're replacing those with eight-light divided light windows instead.

Uh the opposite side, you can see the addition off the back of the house to the right, and the little porch addition in between.

Was we treated it like an addition in that it's secondary to the main house.

It's a one-story instead of two-story.

It has a lower sloped roof than the main house, and it has slightly simplified detailing.

It doesn't have shutters, for example.

Uh, and the Eve returns, it doesn't have those.

The materials used are all uh basically matching the existing home.

The roofing is asphalt shingle to match the existing house.

Siding is a wood lap siding with a profile to match the existing house.

The trim and corner boards and fascia all match the existing house.

Windows are a six over one wood double-hung window.

We're using Marvin Ultimate with a simulated divided light with a shadow bar.

Uh there is one door out of the primary bedroom, which will be a wood patio door, single light to match the existing door that you can see in this photograph.

Uh the porch railings are matching this rail, uh, which also matches the porch rail on the front of the house.

And the foundations are brick to match the existing.

Uh the stone walk.

This is the existing stonewalk that will get rebuilt in a slightly different configuration so it'll match the existing.

That's basically what we're planning to do.

I'm happy to answer any questions.

Great.

I'll ask commissioners if they have any clarifying questions and then we'll move into another discussion.

Clarifying questions from commissioners.

I do have one question.

Are you matching the roof slopes for the other first floor ground floor roofs?

Yes.

Yeah, it's basically a three and twelve slope for the existing first floor additions, and we're matching that.

So the upper roof is a steeper roof, and then all the ground floor roofs are similar extreme twelve.

Exactly right.

Can you um help me understand where you have shutters and where you don't and what the philosophy is on that?

So the the new edition does not have shutters on any of the windows.

Um the sunroom edition on the side is similar, it doesn't have shutters.

It has shutters on the front, but not on the back.

So the the idea is I should get towards the back of the house that we don't use shutters, and in the new edition we're not using shutters.

Uh partly that's because we have a triple window, which would look ridiculous with shutters.

So we made that decision to simplify the detailing as we got towards the back.

Thank you.

Any other clarifying questions?

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any member of the public here to comment on this application?

Yes, sir.

Hello.

Um my name is Is this you?

That's me.

Great.

Uh my name is Tim Carey.

I'm the owner and uh resident at 206 Hillsboro, which is facing 20 right where the people on the 208, or the people on the right.

Uh we've lived there for 15 years and just wanted to say uh reviewed the packet completely consistent with the neighborhood.

We have no objections at all.

And hope this goes well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else wants to comment?

Okay.

Thank you very much, Commissioners.

Let's discuss.

Is there anything to discuss?

No.

It this is a sympathetic um addition.

I think it is sufficiently delineated as different from the main house.

It has that, it has enough separation.

Um the three windows on the bottom actually, the triple window do reflect the triple windows above it existing in the house.

Um I I feel that does something to tie them together as well as having the siding match in terms of exposure and material.

So I feel this is a pretty sympathetic addition.

I think this is a really good example of the amount of detail and the matching with the guidelines and principles of the historic district, which make it easier for us to make a decision about this because it's complete.

Not long but complete, if you know what I'm saying.

Well done.

If there is no more discussion, I'd love to entertain a motion.

And there's a script right there.

Don.

Okay, so this one right here.

I move that uh the application is not incongruous with the special character of the historic district according to the application of the relevant provisions of the LUMO and the HTC's design standards based upon the facts presented and the record.

Could I get a second for Don's motion?

Second.

Thank you, Josh.

Okay, I'm gonna take a vote.

Uh Laura.

I vote to approve, John.

I say I.

I yep, thank you.

Uh Josh.

Aye.

Uh Glenn?

Aye.

Don?

Aye.

And the chair votes aye, that passes unanimously.

Thank you very much.

Good luck with your project.

Yes.

Okay.

So I think our last item on the agenda this evening is a discussion about uh officer elections.

Uh Anascott or Shanika, would you like to remind us about that?

Maybe the one thing I'll say is context is that the uh council did approve some changes to the historic district commission, a few other boards over the summer, which took our commission size from nine to seven, uh, which helps us with quorum, uh, which is I think good news.

And uh with Laura and Glenn now joining us, we're actually at a full commission, which is great.

We don't have um David and Nancy with us tonight, but that kind of rounds out our group of seven.

Um and we need to have officer elections, I believe, next month.

Maybe you all will maybe take it from there, please.

Yeah, I think the HGC usually has officer elections in September.

So at um next month's meeting, you'll vote for a uh chair and vice chair.

I think we'll just do the two um officer roles since our board size was reduced to seven, so we don't have the I don't think there's a need for the deputy vice chair.

Um but we'll look into updating the rules and procedures to correct that.

And so I have served two years as chair, so I believe based on the principles, I cannot serve another term as chair.

So just to clarify that.

Um Nancy has served as an officer, I think, for three years and has expressed an interest in continuing to support if needed, but would prefer not to.

So just ask everybody to think about that and we'll have a discussion about it when we're together in September.

And I'll make sure that both Nancy and David know that also.

I'll also say uh since we are going to have to amend the rules of procedure to eliminate the vice chair position anyway.

We may also want to consider eliminating the uh rules regarding the the number of terms that a member may serve as an officer.

Now that we're we've you know uh removed two seats from the commission, we've got a smaller pool of applicants to draw from for these two uh these two roles.

Um so it may be worthwhile considering whether the board um is interested in in amending or modifying those rules to allow you know more consecutive terms or to make that more flexible in some form or fashion.

Okay.

Um would that be something that so how what would be the appropriate way for us to consider that?

Would it be a discussion we'd have here next month?

Or would we want to do that?

Yeah.

I I think that'd be fine if you if you all want to think about that and and bring whatever comments you all might have back to us next month, then we can work on you know whatever we need to do to get the rules of procedures, uh rules of procedure amended and back to you, and then I think also to the town council, but I may be wrong for final approval.

Okay.

Yeah, so we can look at um the what the process is for updating the rules um and procedures.

I think we'd also want to check um like council's overall um board membership policy because I think that addresses like the officer roles too in the Yeah, and I think there's benefit in us being consistent.

So I don't know if we want to do a one-off just for the historic district commission.

We probably should follow the policy's been set.

Yeah.

And I think there were three others that were also um rescaled, I guess you would say, with that change.

So I think it's probably to their benefit if we just all follow the same rules.

Yeah, I think the only other note on that is we do normally have a uh council liaison has been uh Camille Barry.

I think she's anticipating that she's gonna get reassigned because she's been our uh for two years, but I suspect the mayor will take that up sometime in the new council year.

So maybe the next time we're all together, we'll have some news on that.

In the meantime, if there's anything we need advice on, I'd still go to Camille.

And I think that is it.

Kevin, Sharnica or Anna Scott, did you have anything else for us tonight?

No.

Other than welcoming Laura and Glenn and saying thank you for showing up.

We'll try to keep them all.

Just keeping it interesting, Don.

That's all.

Okay, I think we're adjourned.

Thank you.

Excellent.