Start the meeting.

We'll do roll calls.

Libby?

Mike.

I'm here.

Good that you're here, Chuck.

Sure.

Wes here.

Last meeting.

John.

I'm here.

I'll spirit.

I'm here.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

And I'm here.

Uh so approval of the agenda.

There's been a request that we have in of the new business, two items, and that we foot flop them.

Um anybody have any reason why that's a problem?

Just do a quick uh all in favor say aye.

Opposed.

No.

Okay.

So that is what we'll do.

Anything else for the anybody want to add anything else to the agenda?

Okay.

Announcement.

Petitions from the PC.

Didn't look like it was anyone in the uh public.

No, I don't think we have uh any members of the public mission for your petition.

Okay, so now we have two uh minutes.

The earlier ones, Josh made an earlier approval.

That was um October 21st.

Yes, the change in the October minutes uh was just to correct that it was uh there's that last vote there.

Yeah, was in favor.

I think I had Mike in favor when I got staying time so on the November 18 minutes.

Um they don't show who attended the meeting.

Oh right, in the roll call section.

Okay, we did not have a roll call vote, so it did not pop up.

Okay, did we not?

Uh no, last meeting was just a discussion with Ted.

Um, and I asked to delay the minutes.

So I don't think we had a roll call though.

I think it was just the approval of the agenda.

I didn't call roll, huh?

I know you called roll.

I did not get the roll call recorded in a vote.

Um we can throw it in the roll call section.

Okay, okay.

Oh, populate the minute.

I move approval of the October 21st minutes.

Sorry.

All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed done.

So should we just wait for the how about I mean, do we can we put it?

Assuming we agreed.

Can we um I move approval of the November 18 minutes, adding in the names of the people who attended it?

Which was everyone, right?

Was anybody not here?

You were not here once.

I was here.

Everybody was at the meeting with um Ted.

Yeah, so we had everybody.

Yeah, I'll second.

Can we do that?

Is that okay?

Uh any discussion?

Any other issues on those November meeting minutes?

Because let me say that.

Um okay, all in favor?

Aye.

Aye.

Extensions, okay.

Wow, we are moving through our minutes.

Okay, the old business done.

New business.

So we're gonna start with the um elections, and um I am the one I think who will ask for, are there any nominations for we'll start with chair?

Oh, I would like to nominate John since he's been trained as the vice chair in this chair.

John, will you accept the nomination?

Sure.

Good, sure.

Okay, any other nominations.

I'll nominate myself.

Okay, Jeff.

And I've done you accept no.

Okay.

Uh so there's nothing required, but maybe if John and Jeff just want to say a couple words about.

Are you all good with that?

John, any uh um what you would do in this.

I'm I'm willing to do it if uh folks um would like me to.

Um I don't have a grand agenda uh for the next term.

I think we did a lot of proactive stuff this term.

Um I I wouldn't be inclined to you know come out hot in the next term unless you know conversations with council members suggested that they um have an interest in our pursuing specific topics.

Um so I would anticipate, you know, a fairly um that the next term would be a little more reactive to the happenings in the town and to requests for feedback from us.

Okay.

And uh when would this term what would be the kind of term of this term?

Uh chair and vice chair are appointed for a year.

Uh I think we may have gone a little over this time, but we'll we'll start on December.

December.

Okay.

So it'll be a December to 7th.

Okay.

Um Jeff, would you like to uh Yeah, no, I think you know, I think I think there's opportunities for Planning Commission, and I think Wes may learn this beginning tomorrow at 6 30 p.m.

Um for planning commission to have a uh a more visible role in the development process.

I'm saying more liberal visible role in the development process and and just have uh, you know, I plan if I'm fortunate enough to be um elected chair, would be to meet with the different council members.

I have relationships with a number of them and just ask what would be helpful for them to see from the planning commission.

Like what ways can our recommendations, you know, do they find our recommendations helpful?

Would it be helpful to have more detail?

Would it be helpful for us to do for the members of the commission to do what the Durham commissioners do, which is to write explanations for their votes and to submit those to the council for their um review as they're making their decision?

Um so that's I think what I would like to do.

Um I have previous experience um running town advisory board meetings as chair of the um former chair of the board of adjustment.

Um so I do have I have a little bit of Robert's rules sort of familiarity um and I'm comfortable sort of handling the running of the meetings.

Um and I I think you know uh I want Planning Commission to be I want us to our role to be meaningful.

Um, and so you know just notwithstanding what the ordinance has, it's all about what those seven, you know, nine members of town council, the mayor, and eight council members um think of you know the work that we do, and I want to sort of work on building those relationships to make sure that when they have material from the planning commission um that is actually proving helpful and influential as they make their decisions.

Okay, are there any uh questions that anybody has for either of the candidates?

So I guess for you, Jeff, would you meet with all of trying to meet with all of the council members?

Council members, yeah, one-on-one.

I think so, yeah.

Um I'm trying to think if there's anybody.

I think there's nobody there's nobody in the new council that I would have trouble meeting with.

Except maybe Wes.

Yeah, he's a little to ask John, you know, what well would that be in the old plan as well?

I mean, I think there's a value of meaning and you know, making this more effective, more value.

I mean, there's definitely value, but just kind of constantly improving on the value.

That that's a that's is that something you think you would consider?

Yeah, I mean, I have um pretty good relationship with most of the council members.

Um and um talk except was talking to them, you know, from time to time about planning commission, how we can be useful.

I think we'll the commission is in a has been in a difficult position the last couple terms just because the council's been so fragmented that they don't have a unified view of how we can be helpful and that it just makes it quite difficult for us.

But you know, I'm hopeful that as the council evolves that there could be more of uh more room for cooperation within the council and therefore more room for us to advise them without being um sort of caught in the crossfire.

We've been um so um yeah, I think whichever of us you want to be chair, we'd probably both have the meetings and see uh if we can get some feedback from people because none of us wants to be spinning our wheels and putting effort into you know um giving advice that isn't um wanted or can't be actually both of you you feel that the commitment has been caught in the crossfire with us how many years?

More than two years, I mean well, I've been on for what four years or so before foreign change, I think.

Well, I've been on for what four years or so for foreign change, I think.

And um you know, when I started out, we were pretty pretty reactive to most of the stuff coming in at the specific time that I started out, and uh we generally didn't um memorialize votes in any written memo or anything is sort of like we took a vote and then it was um sort of packaged by staff and council package um in a fairly minimalist way.

Um also a lot more things coming through.

There were a lot more conditional rezonings at the time, but it was we would have meetings going to a lot of them right here.

Yeah, that's pretty normal.

Um, so um, you know, most of you probably weren't here at the time.

I was chair once before, like three years ago, and uh one of the things I tried to do after Michael Everhardt was chair, I discussed with him is why don't we um try to have more of a method to our manace and our discussions and the the complete community uh matrix sort of grew out of that to have a system and we record things and we pass it along.

I think that worked pretty well.

Um, and maybe maybe there's an opportunity to refine it or to have another sort of um device that we use um or system that we use to convey feedback or to analyze things.

Either one of you see the value of AI as the chair and what we've done.

I mean, yes, with caveats, I use it every day for various things, but I don't sort of rely on it with you know without checking.

Um I I guess I see sort of a pretty limited use because I don't think we can go out with sort of recommendations that aren't like fully fully vetted by humans at this point.

Um, if we're collecting information, we want to find comps and we want to take a shortcut to go, you know, find links to things that are out there to compare.

Um I can see that.

What do you think, Jeff?

I mean, I think that I think there's potential for AI and planning.

I think I think it could be helpful for creating transcripts of our meetings, um, which is the one use of AI I found very helpful.

Um, and I think you know, it might be something that planning staff might find useful in some ways as a practicing planner.

I haven't found a lot of, you know, I play with it periodically to like look at zoning codes, and I haven't found it to be supremely useful because it gets a lot of things wrong.

Um I you know, we are appointed to serve as sort of the citizen, you know, we're not really an oversight body, but a citizen body that reviews um proposed uh applications, um, changes to the land development regulations.

Um, and that's you know, it's sort of requiring our human review and insight and experience and bringing that to bear on the development application or the proposed ordinance amendment.

Um I am not sure where AI sort of fits into that role.

Well, as each of you, um so this is the first we just had the first half year that a lot of other commissions boards are no longer in existence.

Do you feel that we should be thinking about or tracking any of the issues that were previously covered by other boards?

And so, how would we even think about thinking about it?

I think that's a case where I think meeting with council members and hearing what would be helpful for them.

Um I I you know, the the reasons for reducing the number of advisory boards was multifaceted.

And you know, there was a stormwater board that went away, there was transportation connectivity advisory board, and just you know having lived in the town for 17 years and sort of knowing the interplay between these different bodies and town staff, um, you know, they're they're advising the town council, but all you know, really they're interacting with town staff through the meetings.

Um I I you know, I think a lot of those boards you know that we haven't had very good town staff now, present company excluded.

No, just but we have you know, we have great folks working in transportation.

We have um, you know, stormwater professionals um who have the expertise and the knowledge to um understand what's working well, what's not working well in the community, um, and propose you know, proposing ways to make our regulations better, the way they're enforced better.

Um, so to the extent there are duties that these boards had um that relate to planning, you know, I think there's more work done on the everywhere to everywhere Greenways plan um and ideas for that come out.

I think we would be the appropriate body, hopefully the town council to review and make recommendations on that.

But when it comes to say the you know, some of the work the stormwater advisory board was doing, I don't you know, I don't know that that is something that it needs to be, you know, that we need to sort of step in and support.

Yeah, um, I think it's tricky.

I don't disagree with anything that Jeff said.

Um I agree that when a lot of these boards, most of them were created, including the planning commission.

Um we had a smaller and in a way like less specialized and professionalized town staff, it's just a different era.

Um as the town's grown and the town staff has grown.

Um there's a real risk that we're like a third wheel.

You have you have the council, you have the staff, professional specialists in these different areas.

You have a planning commission.

Some of us are specialists in some things, but generally not replicating you know, expertise or really improving upon expertise that's at the staff level.

So I don't have a blanket answer except to say I think we need to be sort of sensitive to that and sort of pick and choose the areas if we're gonna be proactive to where we think that we could add value and not be sort of um you know competing with staff in a way that's not you know sort of constructive.

And should that affect as we pick new people say to play replace Wes's spot?

Should we be thinking about these what people's skill sets are, knowledge base, life perspectives?

I I think so.

I mean, I mean I think Jeff has been um a key contributor to this commission over the last well, his entire term, but over the last year, it's been very interesting that you hear just perspectives on Lumo stuff given that he drafts these sorts of documents for a living.

Now, I don't think we're gonna be able to replicate that in all different specialties, but um given that the town is required to have a planning commission, we have a planning commission.

It seems to me like we might as well, if available to us, have people on it with expertise that could be um you know useful and might have some perspectives, um, you know, technical perspectives to add that we can harness.

I think it's useful.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want you know a planning commission with seven professional planners.

That would be a painful and long meeting.

Um you know, it's it's in all the different communities I work, I haven't found any planning commission that has sort of appointments based on different areas of expertise.

Now there are historic boards that have those requirements.

Um there are some more technical boards, but planning commissions they're either you know appointed by the executive body by the mayor, um, or they're appointed, you know, you might have a uh a seven-member council and seven planning commission members, and so each planning commission member, each council member appoints a planning commission member, or you do what we have here in which they you know elect everybody, you know, they they just vote on who's appointed.

Um, and I think it's helpful to have a diversity of perspective, but it's hard, you know it's hard to sort of you know, you have different people applying every time, and I would not want to sort of exclude somebody who you know would be a great fit in some way because we need you know, someone who's a stormwater expert, someone who's an architect, um, particularly when you know town council hasn't explicitly given us direction to find people um who sort of fit into the different slots.

Any other questions?

We can have a discussion.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh I will say for procedure, I do have written ballots for the Planning Commission uh recommendation.

We can also use those for the chair uh election if you prefer.

Uh I do need your name on the ballot, so you don't have to say it out loud, but it will go on public record.

And will both?

Uh yes, it's very funny.

More informal.

Yeah, yeah.

My question would be who else here has interest in like the chair and the vice chair, there's a lot of work to do, and people travel for work.

And um, in my experience, having the chair and vice chair work well together is really effective.

And so is who for me uh it would be good information to know who else would be interested in vice chair, and if we're looking at a chair and vice chair here, it's something I mean.

I don't know if anyone else in this group wants to be vice chair.

Well, let's how about that would inform that would inform my why don't we first say Jeff, if you don't win, would you run for vice chair?

Would you be willing to John?

If you don't win, would you be interested in running for vice chair?

Uh sure.

Okay, so that's how that helps.

Um I am you.

I am willing to, but I'm also happy to let these uh these two guys do it.

I'm not sure if John is uh truly interested in vice chair.

We've done that for two years.

And uh yes, I I guess I would note that you have to make sure not disqualifying.

There you go.

Oh, you can't be vice chair.

Sorry.

Um board officers may serve a two consecutive terms in their position, but that's the limit.

Got it.

And is anybody else interested in mean vice chair?

I'm saying not the experience at the moment.

We'll answer that question next year.

Next year, okay.

I am not interested in this problem over commitment than I'm volunteering.

Okay, and Wes, I don't think we have to how about you, Wes?

No, I am busy.

No, we're busy enough.

Libby, did I ask you?

No, you didn't.

Libby.

Um I think it's more of a time commitment than have available at the moment.

Okay.

So Jeff wins and I say no, then that's the person that we choose.

Someone else.

Uh the first person who's gonna be appointed soon will have to be appointed to vice chair.

No, I would be willing to be vice chair if uh if we get to that situation.

Sure.

Um, but let's vote on chair.

Okay, okay.

Uh so if you could fill out on the back of this, I'm afraid I did not bring pins.

So if you have pen, I have a pen so I can have to pass it around again with the same.

Yes.

Uh on the blank side as the other side has the planning commission recommendation.

Um the idea you get yours back, or would you please invent?

Uh I would like to get them back with your name on it.

And then you'll hand it back to us to put the other thing.

I mean, it's a public right, it's a public record.

So it is a public record, it just means we don't have to do this by voice.

So okay.

So these are given that we're doing the planning commission recommendation by this way, seems consistent to do both votes in this manner.

Okay, so I'm gonna just do a line and do it on one.

We can only vote for the chair.

Currently, we only have Synth.

Yes, we currently only have chair nominations, um, and you can only choose one person.

Just work them as president.

Okay, doing coach chair.

So then we put our name on top.

You need to have your hands.

No, right there.

Yeah, sure.

No, you have two minutes for that.

We are saying it's the digital meetings, and then are you are you gonna um yes?

I'll tally them up, I'll announce who's one chair.

And then we can nominate vice chair.

This was gonna be such a little no lecture.

You two not those.

No, I'm head.

Oh I think we have one working head.

Yeah.

It's like carrying strategy.

Well, there's a thousand little pencils in there.

Okay, true.

We have two.

Yeah, let's get those for vice chair.

Not to mention and should we put our name like the order of the document?

Yeah.

Well, I think I'm hopeful.

Let's see.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I did a clean one.

Okay.

Is everyone does anybody still need to pen.

You need a pen?

Yeah, but it starts real quick.

I'm stacking them here.

Stacking them.

Here you go.

There you go.

Thanks.

This was our quality.

This is crazy.

It's all up here.

Then if you look at the screen to see yourself, we don't see your face.

Yes.

Just say something.

If you want to show up, just say it doesn't always follow perfectly, but that's even enough about the rest of us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I believe on a five to vote.

Uh John has been uh appointed as chair.

Okay.

Congratulations.

Does he take home at the meeting?

No.

No.

All right, so all right.

Nominations per vice chair.

Since no one else wants to do it, I'll nominate myself.

Okay.

And you don't have to, I'll nominate you.

I have been a good we had a good partnership with John, but if he is okay, I'm gonna let Jeff take this.

Uh and but happy to continue to help out in any way.

Yeah, I'm very happy to work together, Jeff.

Okay.

Um let's have a uh vote.

All in favor of Jeff being vice chair.

Thank you, Jeff.

All opposed.

How about news?

Yeah.

You're in favor too, right?

I raise my hand.

Yeah, we'll see.

Okay.

All right.

So that's good.

Well done.

Congratulations to you both.

Okay.

Um the next uh item is the applications, and I just want to give a little uh backstory here.

In the past, sometimes, but not often the candidates actually come in.

Um who interested will come and talk with the um get interviewed by the planning commission, and the planning commission gives recommendations to um the council, and the council is the one that obviously makes the decision.

This uh originally they were gonna be invited but didn't get invited, which is not a big deal because last time we decided we didn't even want them.

It's a little awkward, you know, doing that.

But so instead we thought this is what we do, have a discussion tonight of the candidates.

We've got a nice, very healthy crop.

Um at that point at the end of tonight, we can either vote and make our recommendations, or if we feel that actually it would be helpful to have a uh discussion with one or multiple, we will add that to our January agenda, and we will then make do the voting in January.

There's no urgency, the council is not gonna act on this before that meeting.

So um, what do folks?

Do you have a does this work for everyone?

Yeah, and then at the end we'll go through.

I think maybe let's just talk for a minute or two overview and then go through each one of the candidates, have a discussion, and then we can decide if we're ready to if we have a clear um preference, or if we want to bring some of them in.

Okay.

Quick question.

The same process applies where we'll make a recommendation and then council will also interview these folks.

Yeah.

Yes.

I think we have not yet uh got the council interview process set up.

Um I think after the organizational meeting, we'll see how the mayor wants to handle that.

And Josh, two questions for you.

One is do we know that all these people are still some of these were older applications, so we don't know if they're actually actively interested.

Yes, I think that's the one benefit of speaking to them uh that we do not have for sure is that while all these applications are valid, all applications are held valid for roughly a year to a year and a half.

So some of these folks may have applied a year ago and they may not be interested in position now.

Um we don't know that off the top of our heads.

Um that's yeah, and and for that we might want to rank a couple of people if particularly in case someone had to be interested.

Um my second question is when was this is for Wes's term.

When was that is that coming up in June?

Uh I will double check.

Do you know when you're current term?

Wes are you I feel like this is the end of your term.

Feels like it.

I'm pretty sure I think so with this person, so they're not gonna you know get on until February at best.

Maybe not.

So they'd have a few months and then reappointment.

Yes.

Would it be sort of almost automatic?

I mean, they're not gonna like have to go through this again.

Uh we will go through this again.

I think it is fair to say that a someone who has partial served a partial term on the planning commission can continue to serve and then they can continue to serve two full terms.

Um it is still up to council to decide in June when the term expires how they would like to handle it.

So it's it's a real um provisional sort of thing.

Right, yeah, so it's likely appointment unless there's four cause, you know.

Right.

But I think the presumption would have to be the town that wouldn't make the same.

Yes, and I I would say uh once that member has joined, you do still make a recommendation on their C in June.

Once you've had a couple meetings with them, you'll have a chance to decide if you'd like to recommend them again.

These applications that still be roughly the same um come June.

Okay.

Um, and I will also point out that I did not look at when everybody submitted, but uh John actually pointed out to me that Strather and Eric both applied prior to when they were kicked off.

They applied because they were both due for second term in June, and then they got caught in the kind of still downsizing right, but it was this downsizing and they timed it wrong so that by the so that they lost their.

They were supposed they had been told that they would still be allowed to do a second term that they were grant, and then they didn't, and so we don't know that they actually are interested or not because this is their old application.

That's correct, right?

This is their old application.

So I don't know if anyone's talked about and you know, but we can keep that in mind.

And I noticed there were two, I think, candidates.

This wasn't their first choice.

Might have been three, yeah.

And their applications really didn't reflect a strong what they would have written if they were strongly interested in possibly serving on the planning commission.

They seem like great candidates for the other boards, but yeah.

So why don't we say they're bring that up as we go one by one through them?

Okay, uh folks have the names.

Okay, any other like overarching question um Josh.

Yeah, so there was a student candidate and last year we had the student representative, but I felt that she was put up signal for a seat, an actual seat.

I I think that's I think these are different things.

We have a picture of a high school liaison, and for some reason they didn't give us a new one.

Yes, we have uh that was Teresa.

Is that a name?

The the Chapelville Youth Council may appoint liaisons to the planning commission.

Um they have not appointed uh liaison since Teresa's term expired in July.

That we know of and Teresa was with us for three years actually.

Yeah, well and then guy, I think it was can't remember anyway.

We had very good uh Lia before that, but this time.

So I suggest I don't know if folks have these that we just do them in the order of the packet.

Is that the same order?

Yes.

I can and um I think we'll just uh make a name and uh see what folks think.

So we'll start with Julia Chamberlain.

But PC is her first choice.

And let's just see when she'll find graduating from UNC in uh spring.

Ah I didn't catch that.

So she's graduating this spring, but of course the terms only till July one.

Yeah, okay.

Uh I do want to correct myself there.

Bless's term was set to expire in 2027.

So a partial term year of 2027.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So right, she might be leaving Chapel Hill, although um she lives here and is she applied in July, and so I'm thinking maybe she thought she'd have a whole year.

Yeah.

Uh I thought she didn't seem uh I thought she looked like it'd be nice to have it as a a young student.

She seemed knowledgeable, obviously, about Chapel Hill and the area.

Not agents.

Yeah, go ahead.

I mean, she's she's not doing urban design.

She just she's done research on urban planning, but environmental science.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I thought she seemed great if we had nine members, but you do worry about students having sometimes they overcommit and make the commitments.

Yeah.

You have to think about that.

Last student we had lasts about two months.

Um he looked like a great candidate.

He had much strong.

And the application is well done, it's thoughtfully done.

I thought it was like a very strong application.

She's like hesitate graduating in uh you know a semester, but it's it's nice to have continuity.

It takes a while to get up to speed.

Yeah.

And this is where it's hard to work off the paper.

I mean, we don't know.

Maybe she intends to stay in town, right?

Maybe she has a job lineup.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I will note she is a noted she is a Chapel Hill resident growing up as well.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I know Julia.

She worked uh she worked on a justice campaign this year.

I had a lot of interactions with her.

Um she's very smart, she's very educated on the topics.

I just again not knowing what the next year will be.

And we have a lot of other candidates that um don't have uh a major life change coming up, you know, and continuity might be an issue.

Um but qualified candidates should bring a lot of perspective.

She she she knows how to work.

I you know, the the flip side of her not knowing what she's doing is this could be great for her.

Uh if she stays in this area and she's already engaged in a lot of these things, this would be a perfect person, and clearly it's good to have a young voice.

Um we don't have any way to convey what is important to Julian her generation as young as I am.

Okay, so I think we should also think about before we make decision if we knew that someone Julia or they we had some information about a person like Julia definitely gonna be here next year, definitely interested in this.

Would that change our ranking if so we can move this to January and invite her or at least have at least let Josh have a conversation to find out if she's still interested before we make it so we don't if there's a lot of these open questions will entirely if she thought she was gonna be here, has the time and so forth.

I think she would bring them fold and also interest and perspective.

Right.

Yeah, for the ability to but I think it'd be strong to to to kind of uh put it in the terms of saying anybody can be here definitely because any of us could be moving.

Correct.

Yeah, I mean it's not fair to it's not fair enough.

Yeah, something to learn to anyone else.

She doesn't know what she doesn't know either.

I mean, she's graduating.

Most likely she wants to stay around, you know, being in the border.

So but it's just we just gotta, you know, I think the mentality is you know, people are working for other countries and they're working remotely needs to be.

Yeah, anyways, yeah.

I'll just you know, I I really think we need to sort of make our decision based on what's in front of us.

Yeah, we are not making the decision we're recommending to Wes and his future colleagues about who they should appoint.

Um, and they may have very different criteria.

Um, so I think while it'd be nice to know if she were staying, it'd be nice to interview her.

I don't know that um I I think we're just gonna have to say we're not gonna have that information and make a recommendation of some sort tonight.

It can be uh this person or we think Julie and Milton is too maybe you could just dip through the rest of these and see where it's based on paper.

I mean, there I thought these I really thought all of these people well with I mean that the there was one guy who mentioned the grievance hearing board, so this may not be his first choice.

Um but I thought they were all yeah, they would all bring interesting perspectives.

As uh Libby said, it's too bad there's only seven positions, yeah.

So maybe Anthony who mentioned a grievance hearing.

Oh, are any of these well, I guess ETJ doesn't matter at this point.

No, these would be for a chapel residency.

Yeah, okay.

Um yeah, okay.

So let me just say, was there anybody that you saw that you particularly wanted to?

I think there was a couple.

I mean, you know, Strather and Grade Peter, I believe it's the Duke of the environmental I know of him.

I actually he's fairly worked at the EPA now, I think it's said on his resume.

Um the meat packing lady was very interesting, but I think she would be great and dynamic on the town.

Um although her first choice was the I thought Data Partnership.

Right, right.

And that would be great to get something like her involved.

Um I think some of the others were the ones that I think those are the main ones that jumped out at me.

Julia, um I mean of her Robin Lands.

I'm sorry, I forgot to bring my notes.

Robin was five.

She lives near downtown.

She volunteers with the dispute settlement.

She works, she works or worked for the EVA for 18 years.

Um, I mean, there's several strong candidates for Peter plus Julia and Okay.

And there's nobody that you didn't see any huge red blood.

There's maybe a little bit of a red slide.

The second one.

All right.

Okay.

Okay.

Ari, well, thank you for joining us.

Appreciate you squeezing us in.

We know you have a trunk with today.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Um, everybody.

Um sooner.

Good luck, change.

We'll see if thank you guys.

See you on the other side.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

We'll leave your cell phone before.

Okay.

The um, I think we're not gonna make a decision on anyone.

Let's go through them all and then we'll go back and run the group.

Does that work for everyone?

I like that.

Yeah.

So we're gonna go next to uh Anthony.

He was so his first choice was a different uh grievance for agreement support.

Yeah, doesn't mention anything about planning.

Right, and he didn't really put a huge amount of effort into this application.

Like why does he want to be on any board really?

Uh I mean, with such a strong group, I didn't see anything that made me forgive them the top of the list, but sure he would be fine if we had him.

Um yeah, I didn't get the sense that he was um especially interested in this board as opposed to the Great Support.

And I think um the grievance part would make maybe more sense even what he wrote here, but yeah.

Yeah.

Anybody have anything else to say then?

Robin, we should go next.

Okay.

Robin is just started to round PC is Robin's first choice.

Uh worked for EPA for 18 years, focused on analyzing the impacts of different policy options.

Yeah, she looked interesting.

Sort of an efficient application.

She didn't she didn't mention it, but I Googled.

She's on the board of the Animal Aid Alliance of North Carolina.

Okay.

She didn't really say, well, I guess in the beginning why she wanted to do this.

That first paragraph had that.

I think you know, she volunteered, she said she volunteers with the dispute settlement center, which possibly be helpful, you know, when Chuck and I are at Festicuffs.

Yeah.

Well, you and your chair.

Um right?

Yep.

Next is another EPA guy.

Yeah, well, there was a lot of people in EPA this year who said that.

Looks like he's still there though.

Yeah, because this is a November 9th application.

Uh still standing.

Has lived here a long time, lives in a new place that didn't exist back when he grew up.

I think it, you know.

Can't sort of economics sense.

Yeah.

I thought it was a very strong application.

I did too.

I was well.

Why do we get so many EPA people?

I mean, how many EPA people are in the triangle?

It's like a third of our applications.

Yeah, that's what I love.

Oh no, it's not about that.

Melissa worked for EPA.

This is before anybody lost the job.

This was years ago.

Melissa called council members.

Well, it's true.

UNC.

I mean, just they're working remote.

It's just a huge EPA.

I think it's the largest government agency in RTP, isn't it?

And so if you're gonna be fed.

I mean it benefits us, so we we get good people, you know.

Yeah.

Just interesting to see PA.

By far the largest single employer be even including UNC, I think.

We didn't even get UNC applicants for this board.

He has a doctorate in anymore.

I'm in science, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, management.

I think he'd be great.

He certainly says all the right things here.

Yeah.

Anyone have anything else to say about Peaver?

Okay.

So Judith is on board of adjustment right now, is that sure?

Yeah, I served with her briefly on the board, I think, and that's her first choice, so I would say he probably wants to continue serving there.

Yeah, I think she's a good fit for what we're already on the board of assessments.

Right.

Sure, term is is up.

Oh right.

So we can she said it was her first.

Was she reappointed?

I will check.

Um I know that these applications are birthday was in April.

These applications are from July forward.

Unless she submitted in April.

Okay.

I don't even know they're on there anymore.

I know they had to job great people.

So maybe that's it.

Maybe she asked.

That's right.

Judith was appointed for her first term in July 1st, 2025.

So this was the application for that.

Oh, so she's off.

She's his application from April.

April.

Yeah.

Okay.

This is we can we don't need to look at this via what her name was.

For her first.

That is uh what's the board roster says?

It may have been a partial term before.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, that yeah.

Okay.

That makes that easier.

Okay, next one is we have Strather and then Eric.

I like them both.

Yeah.

And they were valued members.

If they want to do it again, all right.

Are these the guys you were talking about earlier that they were before the commission was nine?

And Strather has a very interesting background.

She was in the State Department, has lived all over the world, and her husband is from Condo, and she has um children who are I assume with him.

And so she just when you first meet her, she just seems like you're North Carolinian, whatever.

And then she has this very wide global.

And I will say she was really pissed that she wasn't allowed to work to uh do a second term.

She felt really insulted.

She had gone to the people's academy to kind of learn how to engage and felt that Chapel Hill really was not interested in public engagement.

She took a very prepared, she was kind of just hitting her stride.

Right.

As far as feeling comfortable making comments and and um, yeah, I would like to see her messages.

You were talking about interviewing someone.

I mean, you guys five, seven of you know this person.

Yeah, he's just like you all need we worked with her for a couple of yeah, I know a couple years.

Like uh almost like a grade candidate for based on the you know previous experience, okay.

In my opinion, we kind of owe her the awkward community.

Yeah, they need to do a second term.

Yeah.

If he if she's still interested, but she might have moved on to something else.

Eric Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, Eric's in the same boat.

Eric is very much in the same boat, and he uh not he ran for council and didn't win.

He was the person who ran against Wes and others and didn't win.

So who knows if he's interested in coming back to planning commission, but his name is here, so is this uh application?

Application's from June 10, I think.

Yeah, I know.

I'm just saying, so is is the the fact that his name is on well so they both so they were both applying for their second term in June.

So these applications were before that last June.

So we don't know if there's an interest in any we don't know.

They never got to we know that when we had nine members, they were reapplying to be members even nine.

Now that we have seven members and they have been off the board for a couple months, we don't sometimes pass like that.

And just context uh the original ordinance that came around that was going to um eliminate some of the boards was going to into effect September first.

Yeah, as adopted and went into effect July one.

So is it ethically incorrect to contact them and say hey the this you know there's a interest for them?

Let's let's discuss this at the end about like how do we make the thing of going forward.

Um anybody want to say anything else about Eric.

We might as well just even know he's not next on the list.

He was a valued member of the planning commission.

I I valued his uh perspective.

Um welcome to have you background.

A specific background he had like um in environment or anything specific.

So he he's uh very active in the nonprofit sector and particularly for um Latino advocacy statewide, okay locally worked for um El Sancho Hispano and Carro.

Okay, I think it was chief operating for a while.

Yeah, um there it is.

I'm correct.

Okay.

Oh, enough community work in real time, yeah.

What does it say he's doing right now?

Uh community solutions.

nonprofit sector and particularly for um Latino advocacy statewide okay locally worked for um el centro hispano and carbo okay um i think it was chief operating for a while yeah um okay oh there it is i'm correct okay oh enough community work sending real yes what does it say he's doing right now uh community solutions his own firm i guess uh uh his own consulting yeah yeah non product consultant but he's done a lot for the local community particularly who bad if he isn't here and yeah and he ran for council which is a lot right yeah twice twice and he also um he also thinks a lot about affordable housing that would be his his prime focus I would say or at least on the plan commission that has been okay okay two more people so uh Mitchell I don't remember who Mitch oh you just want you just want to pass the C V but there's uh application um first app first choice was the town council vacancy um well set your seat high for someone that here less than a year why not their their application um we can move to the the C E V might have a little bit more information I guess he works remotely yes they he has a valid technical address so that's true that's a good point Josh is driven to his house made sure he was there well certainly says all the right things yeah I mean unless you're a student though I think you need to live here more than a year is my opinion so that was I was here on 12 process yeah that's not very well and there's not much depth to what he says like saying all the right things so it wouldn't be bad but there's nothing here that makes the uh jump up and down all right any other thoughts Mitchell okay um mered it a meyer round my currently an HOA president uh states secretary sorry she's the person who applied for the downtown partnership first uh but did have planning involved oh this was her so hers was in May I guess she wasn't appointed to the downtown do we know it was I don't know uh I will double check I do not think who's uh say that I will double check her first choice was to uh be on a downtown partnership yes that's correct okay I missed this one I don't know who needs a bit of oh you're all right I did the meat packing business you know I mean hers is I mean she could be great um but it's hard to tell by reading this just yeah so I certainly hope when you get to council um and throw around your influence Wes that you make sure that they interview folks that you know sort of meet a cut um because I you know I think you know she is currently staying at home with her three kids and you know worked and I think she might have a really neat perspective on what it's like to you know how the land uses in Chapel Hill affect being a parent I also note that the meat packing business improvement district is uh like the downtown partnership uh for the meat packing district in New York a little bit bigger she is not likely not a meat packer okay accustomed butchery yeah no but you know that a sausage is made yeah other thoughts about her she's interesting yeah she's also one of these applicants that didn't write it for the planning commission so she might have had a different he wrote it for the downtown partnership which would have been more yeah when we're when we're done with this I'd like to make my to Josh my repeated plea for better applications formats this should not this did not need to be 66 pages.

When we're when we're done with this, I'd like to make my to Josh my repeated plea for better applications formats.

Yeah.

This should not, this did not need to be 66 pages.

I would agree.

I think unfortunately the CDs add.

Oh, I think the CVs are fine, but I think the basic information about each person other than the essays could be on a half a page.

And we don't need um, we don't need nine copies of the ethics statement.

Okay.

Any final comments on Meredith?

So we do just how about I'm gonna recommend this, just as kind of a straw poll.

Let's do a hands up for each person that you think is worth the council interviewing.

Okay, just to get a sense of like where we are on all this.

That includes Stroder and Eric.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Uh Julia, this is the student.

Okay, Anthony.

Okay, Robin.

Okay.

Peter.

Okay.

Strada.

Mitchell.

Okay.

Meredith.

And Eric.

All right.

So I think we can take Anthony and Mitchell.

We can just don't need to talk about them at all.

Um the people who got unanimous um hands up were Julia Peter Strother and Eric.

Yeah.

So Robin and Meredith both got definitely got support, but not unanimous support.

So why don't we talk between the top four?

And if we want to also portray the way I mean, we don't have to just give them a name or four names.

We can say we think you should interview these people.

And from our reading of their materials, we would whoever we want to rank most highly we can maybe give an explanation why.

Uh but everyone except for Mitchell, Judith, and Anthony, we can say uh worth an interview at this point.

Is that sound fair?

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

So let's talk about those top four.

So there's Eric and Strather.

And then Peter and Julia.

So should we talk about Eric and Strader first?

How to in my opinion, I think they one of the two of them should be offered the first thing.

I just think that's only appropriate, and we can talk about which one.

I respectfully disagree.

Um let me let me just before I figure it.

I think they both should because I think they were promised a second term, and I think that is appropriate when the next position comes up that they should be offered it.

But the flip side is I think that the amount of time they spent learning how this commission worked is worth something, and whoever we bring in is gonna have to go through that.

So we have a small enough group.

Why not?

We have if they obviously want to, we've got people who want to who were promised it and are already have shown that they're good members and are framed up.

So all right, go ahead.

No, I'll agree on your second point.

Um, I think on the first point, they weren't promised anything.

I mean, they serve at the pleasure of the town council, and their terms were expiring, and there was no guarantee that they were going to be appointed.

Um, you know, there are other people who may have applied.

I don't know if we looked at, I don't remember if we looked at applications at that time, but there may have been other people who the council um in their discretion may have decided to appoint.

So I I but that wasn't what I mean.

That's a different issue than I brought up.

It's not that they they weren't allowed to compete.

There wasn't a spot.

There were no there were no vacancies for them to fill.

So it's not that they were not allowed to compete, it's just that two seats were taken away and there were no more vacancies to fill.

And they had been told that there would be a seat remaining if they would their seat would be grandfathered, essentially.

That's what I think it was Taz told them that.

Yeah.

No, and uh yeah, but TA and Taz Love has Taz doesn't appoint people to the board.

No, no.

Uh okay.

Question just so the process is your the objective now is to put these four in order of movie things the best, because some of them may not even be interested.

So when you know, if there's an interview or the council wants to talk to anyone, they may go through the first one, the first one may say, hey, no longer interested, and then a second, I'm no longer interested.

So we just put them in the order that that's the objective.

Well, I mean, we can decide what our objective is in my mind.

The thought is the council's gonna interview they're gonna they appoint a subcommittee, and that subcommittee will pick some to all of the people who have applied and have interviews with them.

So we're trying to say, hey, we think you should interview these people, and our recommendation is if we're up to us, we would appoint in this order, depending on how the interviews go.

Okay.

Is so um uh is interview part of the process, or or should are we saying that this is what we recommend, they choose if they want to interview or not?

Is it part of the process?

It is part of their project council's process.

It is yeah, Mike, were you and you were interviewed, right?

You weren't interviewed.

Cali process goes differently.

Oh, yeah, he wasn't appointed by the council uh as planning commission, you get to make a recommendation on who you think should join the planning commission.

Council ultimately will set up their own process to figure out who they would like to join planning commission and they'll make the appointment.

Um that process usually includes an interview committee, um, which is what you may want to set up set them up for to recommend who is interviewed by the interview committee who are council members with limited time and may not interview all of these applicants.

Yeah, I feel like we're just I I I would I think we're just saying, are we gonna give them four names or six names?

Basically, yeah.

I I I think I don't personally think we haven't, you know.

If I would feel behind the eight ball if we were acting you know, if we were the people actually appointing, just you know, without interviewing them.

So I I mean, my preference would be just to send along names that we think the council should interview and not try to say this is our top try to get consensus on however many names that we pass along, um, and not sort of rank them.

Does that just uh the fact that I what I mean learned?

I would have said absolutely yes, but the fact we learned that these the top two that we pick may not want to be even running for this, they may not be interested.

Yeah, if they if they if these guys were absolutely the the one that wanted to run for this, then then I would say you were right.

But I think in a situation that the top two we've we may pick and not even be interested.

Oh, I'm saying we should pick six or four or five.

Yeah, I'm saying not ranked.

Yeah, the four that is is unanimous is a good good starting point.

Do we want to?

I mean, we could just stop right now and do those four.

We could um take those four and uh add a sentence or two after each saying we start think this person would be particularly valuable to the planning commission for blank.

Oh, just give those four names.

And we can also say that uh and add in uh Robin and Julia is kind of a second tier still worth interviewing them.

I mean, if I was on the selection, if I was on the interview committee, I would look at all of them anyhow, yeah, and then use this as just part of the decision.

So um, you know, uh say the six we all raised our hand for be fine, or if we want to sum it down to four, but I think that that committee we only raised everyone raised their hand for there were six that had some hand raised.

So it doesn't matter, and it might um help save somebody at least a few minutes to mention that we excluded the people who didn't select the PC as their primary choice, or who have been appointed to other boards in the meantime.

Right.

That's kind of how we we got here.

No, there's the one, yeah, uh in some cases.

Yeah, no, yeah, you're right.

Um Mr.

Counselor De B.

Would it be helpful if you're on that subcommittee, which I imagine they would appoint you to?

Maybe given your knowledge, one would hope.

Um do you think that it would be valuable?

Obviously, you're sitting in the start.

Right, but if you weren't for us to have a list that explained why we put the various people on, or do you think that's superfluous?

I I think it's fine to say the reason why we didn't pick the people we didn't pick, but then for the rest of them, it's like we think they're worthy of an interview, and the council should interview them.

Is what we're saying, yeah.

Yeah, so I'll make a motion that we we send along six names that we identified that we all that somebody at least voted for as potential candidates that the interview committee should interview, and then also note the reason why we didn't select the others were as John stated that they'd already been appointed to do the commission, or um, they did not list the planning commission as their first choice.

So you're not gonna pick you not gonna distinguish the six from the four we could do we could say these four names had uh all the votes, and then these other two names had partial votes.

Yeah, I face back what do you want to all right?

I I feel like we could do better than that.

Our conversation clearly has strongly supported four people, I think, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think any of those four people would be a really good asset.

We're leaving in Robin and Meredith, who in my mind could be fine, but at least on paper are very much inferior to the other four.

In my mind.

How many people raised their hand for Robin and Meredith?

For Robin, I think we had a remind me if Libby was in the room at this time.

No, he was not.

Okay, we had a four or two for Robin, we had a three-three for Market.

And the others were six six sides.

Um I just didn't think Robin's application was as strong as no, I don't think so.

Someone who amended, so then someone amended to do it as a hasn't received the second.

Oh, yeah, okay.

So then there we go.

So make it fail fail.

And your last meeting with a failure.

Um, sure.

Um let me just remind myself about Robin.

Um she was from the EPA, also, I think.

Yeah, she's the animal once and the dispute settlement center.

Yeah, I will say Wes is likely to be on the interview committee.

So one would think, I mean, that would make sense, right?

But know this for a fact.

No, no, no, no, no.

I just said we'll find out your appointments when you get um it's only for one position also.

So is it is the so is the sense of the commission that we should recommend five or the five who did receive a majority of hands of the people who are present?

I'll motion for four.

So this is part I think you spending a lot of time in here to make a recommendation, and then using the amount of time they have to take, so they're gonna go into view.

It's just gonna give them a list of four instead of five.

Okay, six.

So just is our filtering in here is what we're going to help them out.

So I heard on motion.

Is that a motion?

That's a motion.

I'll second that.

Yes.

Uh motion and a second to recommend four.

Can we do it?

Can we can we would you do a friendly amendment to actually name the people just for the record?

That I'm yeah, oh, it's not the motion.

Julie Chamberlain, yeah, which Manilop Strather, Murray, Mingda, Bingda, and Meredith Rademai.

No, no, no.

I mean Eric.

And then go ahead.

That's why we named the things.

It's recorded.

Yeah, it's gonna know.

So do we have so do you accept that friendly amendment?

Yes.

So I have a motion to recommend these four, um, and the second.

Let me get some clean sheet paper.

Here is so we have a motion to recommend four applicants, these named applicants to be interviewed by the town council for planning commission.

Uh I guess that's the wording to think.

We interviewed to be as candidates and planning commission applicants.

Should be interviewed by the council as candidates, right?

And Mike, just you should confirm that's accurate to your intention.

Yes, it is your question.

Should be that look accurate to I guess you can see the recommended, unless we did this, they're a commended applicants or not not in any specific order or so.

I thought you know it's not ranked.

Yeah.

Let's just go alphabetical.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

That's good too.

Good, good.

Yeah.

And in fact, they are.

Yeah.

Okay.

And if true vote.

So we don't have those other two names on there at all.

You fine with that.

You remember that, those two names in case you need to.

Oh, yeah, no, I just I was trying to read the room if we wanted six or four, but uh either way.

Okay, it's fine with four.

I think this is good.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um let's take a vote.

All in favor.

Raise your hand or say yes.

Yes.

All right.

Any other business.

Should we have a plaque for Wes?

Right.

I I'd like to make a motion that on behalf of the Planning Commission.

We appreciate the exquisite service of Wes.

And hope he takes all he's learned from us and applies it to his next venture with the town council.

Don't forget us when I won't forget you.

Um I second that.

I also would like to um acknowledge Liz's service for two years and change as um chair, and I think she did it um gracefully and diligently.

And uh really much appreciated your service to the town.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

And thanks to the two of you for taking up the mail.

We appreciate that too.

It's about to get more acrimonious.

Shit's shit's getting real.

So Les, you can't just kind of go, right?

Why?

I'm gonna be back here.

Yeah, let me tell you guys, this is what you can do better.

Council.

Paris and Elizabeth Sharp are gonna be like, no, no, put Wes on there.

That's right.

No moss.

All right, we adjourned.

You know, you need this.

One last thing.

I think you need the Junior.

Uh you said it was uh for the vote.

Yeah, there you go.

So we've got new Theo, Amy, Alyssa.

Well I said corporate PC members, yes, yeah.

It's almost a majority.

It's yeah, it's four.

I just want to provide a bit of tradition here, or explain a bit of information.

When I started the on the planning commission, it was in the middle of COVID 2020, and that was the first time the planning commission had ever not met in person, and so they used to have this annual sort of Christmas tradition, a festivist tradition, and do you know about this, Jush?

No.

I was really preceded me, so I never fully understood it, but they would have some merriment.

Anyone know?

Do you know about this?

It's a John I I believe it to be a John Reese creation.

I thought John was oh the the poll.

You got it last year, right?

Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Well, anyway, just to tell people in case it should show up at some point.

There's a tradition with John Reese, who was uh previous, previous, previous, previous chair.

But I thought he was continuing something that already existed for the case.

Oh, he I think he made it up.

Yeah, that's a sounds like a John.

Does it sound like a John Reese thing?

Yeah.

Anyway, it may show up again at some point.

Someone may get a poll, and then they have to move it on.

They have to keep it and store it for a year, and then they have to make it appear on somebody else's stupid.

Yeah.

Uh on the planning commission.

So all right.

Well, I actually now let his wesk, so you can just leave it in Piscass if you were anything we're gonna get.

No, no, I both be adjourned.

Okay.

Is this the um that fighting?

Recording stopped.