Okay, good evening, everyone.

Welcome to the April 8th work session of the Chapel Hill Town Council.

We are pleased to have you join us.

On our agenda for this evening, we have three items.

First, there will be an update from our economic development team.

Second, we'll be discussing our rewriting our rules, the town's land use management ordinance rewrite.

And third, there will be an update regarding planning for the extraterritorial jurisdiction 15501 in Southern Chapel Hill.

Affectionately known as Weston.

Before we get started, we just wanted to remind our audience that the format of a work session is slightly different than our regular meetings.

Work sessions are an opportunity for the council to dive more deeply into specific topics.

They're more conversational, less formal, and we don't vote.

Anything that would need a formal vote, we'll come back to the business meeting.

Finally, we value public input and do want to hear from you on these topics.

So there'll be opportunities for the public to speak at upcoming business meetings.

Our next regular meeting will take place next Wednesday, April 15th at 6 p.m.

in town hall.

And another good way to give us your input is by emailing Mayor and Council at Chapel Hill NC.gov.

So with all that said, we'll move on to item number one, economic development with David Putnam and Sarah Park.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Can you all hear me okay?

Yes.

Great.

My name is David Putnam.

I'm your economic development director, and got the full team here.

So we're going to do a quick round of intros for them.

Small but mighty.

Small and my need.

Hi everyone, the evening.

I'm Sarah Potter.

I'm the Partnership Manager.

I'm Sarah Grace Acker.

I'm the marketing and communications coordinator for economic development.

So we are a small but mighty team.

And we're here to share with you all some of the work that we've been doing this year.

And also have a discussion with you guys to better understand how we're aligning with your strategic priorities and how we can look at our program of work for 2027.

So to start off, just some uh I guess setting the stage.

I'm going to do some kind of grounding slides first, and then we're going to get into some more kind of like content for the department.

At that time, I'll take a pause after each major slide that we cover, and then I'll ask for questions or comments from y'all at each section, and then we can move on from there.

Just to you know, help the flow of the discussion really prosper, and then we don't lose any train of thought as we're shifting from subject to subject.

Um, because we understand that this could be a nice discussion with some really exciting information.

So to kick us off, this is our first grounding uh slide.

It's really symbolic and representative of you guys setting your strategic priorities, helps inform our work and guide our work.

So it's really one of our core grounding uh principles for the department.

Um so the priorities that you guys have set for this council cycle are complete community, environmental resiliency, housing, and organizational and fiscal sustainability.

And those icons that you see are important.

You'll see those throughout the slide in the presentation, um, and they'll flash under each of the economic development subjects that we'll be talking about, and then you can see how the things that we're working on connect directly to your strategic goals and priorities, which is important for our work.

And then some other grounding principles.

Um, these are professional grounding principles.

This is the economic development profession unilaterally professionals in our network care about generating revenue and growing the tax base, um, creating high quality jobs in the communities that we serve, and then attracting new investment in the community.

Um those two grounding slides are really important because if we can't connect what we're doing to either of those things, it's not appropriate for us to do that.

And if you're not careful, economic development can be sort of a catch-all subject, um, which is really dangerous territory because then you can experience mission drift and you get off track, and then you're not able to you know really accomplish what your community is trying to set up and do.

So, filtering a lot of what we do from from that high level, um, we've developed these five strategic priorities for the department.

So we have product and posture, and product and posture is really what is our product that we have, where are we selling, what is our recognition and our brand and how are we marketing ourselves locally, regionally, across the state and nationally.

Community partnership, I like to say that the team, you know, economic development is the ultimate team sport.

We can go farther together than we can independently.

And that's why it's a core strategic priority for our department.

Business vitality, that's our existing business support function.

It's the most arguably one of the most important things that we do.

And that's why we have a whole person that's dedicated to exclusively business vitality work.

Real estate and active projects is where we spend a lot of our time focusing on things that you guys have entitled or made policy decisions on.

After you've made those decisions, how do we get shovels in the dirt?

And so our department is always working to try and make these projects happen, be successful, and then be executive.

We also look at other real estate that the town owns, and we you know assess its valuation as we've done most recently, and we try and leverage it to maximize your interests and your opportunity for other strategic goals you might have, like, say, for instance, housing and affordable housing.

And then this is also the bucket that we couch a lot of our parking services support work because that's a core you know product that you all have, and it's actually you guys own the spaces and you can offer them as we've seen most recently as credits and other things, but also it's an important revenue driver for the very focused on that.

And then finally, access opportunities.

While it is a part of everything that we do, we try and have a pillar of its own, uh holding up kind of our uh sort of our equity work and our equity lens, and we've really got a bunch of activities that are standout alone that we're really excited to share with you all today and things that we're working on.

So now we're getting the part.

Um after each slide that I'm about to show you, you guys, I'm gonna ask if anybody has any questions, and then we can discuss them further.

So, product and posture.

What I wanted to do to start off is to share with you all kind of our five what I like to call pillars or strategic priorities, and then really not get too granular, but to stay at the strategy level after that of what are some big things that we're working on and working towards, not necessarily tactics for them, but what are some things that we're working towards to try and achieve those strategic priorities.

And I believe a handout was shared with everybody earlier this week that had actual deliverables that we had accomplished under each of these strategic priority areas and strategies that sheds better light on kind of what what they look like in action.

But the first thing we want to talk about is this idea of activity nodes and the innovation district or corridor.

So this is a really important strategy for achieving this strategic pillar because we know through your complete community work, you guys have these great and tremendous commercial nodes, and we're trying to strengthen those nodes.

Fundamentally, it's very important that we strengthen them so that you know, I actually criticize this expression sometimes, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships, but I think when it comes to commercial nodes and especially our downtown, that sentiment is true.

If you have strong commercial nodes, you will find other commercial nodes pop up, or activity nodes pop up.

And if you have a really vibrant and strong downtown, you're gonna see more success in other areas of town.

Sort of like the spillover effect or cross-pollinating.

I mean, it's very common practice.

And that was set up really well in your complete community strategy.

So we're trying to champion that as much as we can.

A part of that is this idea about an innovation district or corridor to better connect our economic development activities to the work that UNC is doing, so that we can work together and create high quality jobs and drive new investment to the town of Chapel Hill with a focus initially on downtown.

It's such an important place.

Then we have prospect development, and prospect development is sort of like think of it as our project pipeline.

That's where we're actually going out, generating new leads for new companies to come to Chapel Hill, working with regional and state partners to generate those leads, generating them ourselves.

And then bringing the trying to our best to bring those investments to the town.

Then we have product development.

We can generate all the leads that we want, but if you don't have a quality product, you don't have a project.

And so product is our people in our places.

Similarly, if we don't have the spaces for those jobs to locate, we don't have buildings that are ready to move in, we don't have sites that are equipped with all utilities, we don't have all those things, and we're not going to recruit the companies that desperately need those sites and products within the time frame that they're hoping for because other people have them.

And finally, we have marketing and memberships.

And this is also a very important part of product and posture because that's how we're representing ourselves to the local partners that we have, regional partners to the state, to the national, to the international marketing is such a core principle of economic development, which is why we have such a strong relationship with your marketing comms department.

Sarah Grace, I'm going to pick on, is funded through our department, but she's housed in the marketing and commons department because we're her main client.

And so it's a very uh proud relationship that we have with that department.

Um and I think we've seen some great benefits already with some of the work that we're doing, and some of the work you guys have literally in front of you.

The Savannah Bananas swag, the big event coming up this weekend.

Um that is a result of the great partnerships that we've had in the marketing and membership space.

David, can I just add to that that while the things in front of you are pretty to look at and festive?

If you look in the banana game plan, it's fast.

Inside that has some really in-depth work with our downtown businesses to feature them where they're featuring unique venue items or discounts, and they've linked to the Savannah Bananas group that you have a group of super bands called the K Club.

I assume that's referenced to potassium.

I think so.

There's also a group of seniors.

There's like the banana something.

There's like a group of seniors or cheerleaders.

I was told today by a certain nine-year-old.

And so that connection where we're reaching out to the K Club with all with these brochures don't get them.

And we've got our businesses connecting back to specials.

I mean, that's a level of in-depth connection to our business community that is noteworthy.

And that I just wanted to call that out.

It's more than just a pretty face, it's some deep relationship working.

Yes.

Yes, and I can add that.

Um our team did all the coordination for the businesses, so it was more on us and not on them.

Our goal was to make this an easy process to really leverage that relationship, talking to them and things like that.

Um, and we we've never really happened an event like this than type of business engagement like this, so this process has also helped us build the framework to be able to recreate this for future events that have similar engagement.

Not to brag too much, but uh their whole leadership team have shared with us that we are the new community model for their whole operation.

Like when people ask who's done it well and where do you want to go get no questions asked?

They're gonna say Jack will happen.

It hasn't even happened.

But yeah, good work.

Oh when is the composting?

Should we wait?

Now is it actually the perfect time for questions and discussion?

So it's not a question, it's a comment and observation.

Who's doing that?

Is it me?

Okay, Sarah.

I'm senior.

Um with the business community.

That's the question coming up with.

And I really appreciate a whole team.

I've seen all three of you know about.

But this clearly is a result of the relationships that you have nurtured.

Thank you.

So under the first one, under activity nodes.

I know, like at it always comes to me out by the Cross Blue Shield building.

Are you guys looking out there too, or are you prioritizing, or what yeah, that's a great question?

So we're actually really excited about this work.

Um we are going to hopefully bring before y'all in the community.

Um one of next fiscal years, so thank July to August or September, sorry, brain spray.

Um we are actually going to bring to y'all a report that highlights our commercial nodes and our activity nodes in a new way.

And we're modeling that work after some really successful products that we've seen in comparable places like Washington, DC, who has published the whole neighborhood's profile report that we find just fascinating.

It's used as both a business support tool and a new recruitment tool and just uh an educational tool that describes data, like it's essentially a data book for each of those commercial nodes and places.

And you're actually right.

We have more than just downtown.

We have you know, I think a total of eight that we're gonna be unveiling to y'all, modeled after your complete community work and strategy work.

Um but we are looking at some of those other places and how to better activate them and also strengthen them because what we have found, especially in our peers who have done that work really well.

Let's pick on DC again, is that you can prop up one, right, and make it really, really strong, and eventually it's gonna split into two, and then you'll have a whole cluster of commercial or activity nodes, and so we feel like that's a really strong potential strategy that we have in Chapel Hill where that whole parkline area um could eventually be like East Town on one side and then parkline on the other, right?

Yeah, and funny you should bring that up because I think East Town, as we know, has some significant structural stormwater issues long term, and so um you know, whatever we can do, I think to taking a very long-term view of things to shift our commercial activity that way to higher ground and right near the highway and right near Durham, then it's a really good place.

You mean EastGate?

I'm sorry, Eastgate.

Okay, Eastgate.

I was I got there eventually.

I always get yeah, I was confused.

Yeah, so Eastgate with the flooding and all, if we can think about shifting stuff that way, and um just occurs to me that that could be a way to use stormwater funds.

I I dream of 50 years coming back and seeing seeing Eastgate being a beautiful lake in the park, and then a thriving commercial zone on highway.

Anyway, so I throw that in, but yes, I'm glad you're making it for the other report.

Thank you.

And on just one more comment on that.

We think downtown is the first like thing that we need to put a lot of support into, right?

So that's why we have it specifically called out here, and then we get a ton of success in downtown, we're gonna see that spillover effect, and then we're gonna start focusing those efforts in other commercial nodes that we actually have time for.

So can I just follow real quick?

So downtown to me is kind of it's my entertainment destination, it's kind of a specialty thing.

Places like Eastgate are where I get my groceries and I go to the drugstore and I you know I do all those three times a week daily needs kind of stuff.

So do you I don't know how economic development professionals think about commercial like that, but do you see downtown becoming more of a daily needs thing or just becoming a richer version of what it is now?

Yeah, some of that is policy decisions that y'all will end up making, of course, but I think we do envision downtown as being a holistic complete community place.

Thank you, Theo.

Yeah, my question is sort of a follow-up, like you said if downtown is we see a lot of success with our efforts downtown, then we will turn to other places.

Have you defined what success downtown means?

And if so, what is how is it defined?

Yeah, that's a great question as well.

I think for us to define success downtown, um we would see just to use some examples, we would see shovels in the dirt from projects that have been entitled, right?

Like moving those projects forward.

We'd see assembled sites occupy.

We would see the town land optimized.

Um we haven't put exact like actual metrics on the success of downtown, but we know that as we find success downtown in completed projects, new announcements, more investment, um overall, that's how we're gonna objectively look at success downtown.

Does that help a little bit?

It helps a little bit.

Um I think one of the questions I'm wondering about is uh if if downtown is a focus area for the department's efforts for some period of time, um are there I mean we we I think council's interested in working out what qualifies council level policy questions and what count is sort of operational decisions.

Is that is there a distinction between those things in the focus on downtown?

Is it entirely a sort of operational decision making uh arena?

Is there some level of decision we need to anticipate deliberating about at the council level related to uh economic development framework and where where which parts of town we're prioritizing or not?

Yeah, that's the question.

I would say a really strong tool that y'all have at your disposal for helping shape the success of downtown and finding it further.

You're already working on some of that with what you're doing with Lumo, right?

Um, but I think your authority to zone properties is a very strong participatory tool that y'all have to find success.

You guys can, you know, I don't want to see too much for our planners, but y'all can help zone stuff, you guys can create new zoning districts.

I think right now a lot of efforts are on LUMO because that gives you the structure in order to help define what those next steps are, particularly the zoning.

Um but that is one way that y'all can be really involved at that high-level policy decision in downtown.

So would it be fair to say that the content of that answer is sort of like when we say that council has policy making authority, that is there's a sort of like specific legal area that we have policy authority, and that's things like ordinances and zoning and things like that, whereas there's sort of uh call them strategic policies, for example, a choice to invest department time in a particular part of town, which you could in sort of common language call that a policy choice, but uh it sounds to me like that's not a council policy choice under the current operational framework.

Is that a fair description of how you see things?

I I'm I think um some of this is evolving.

Um we um because we have a metrics around specifically around success, I think we're gonna want to test that back with council because that is that that's where the sort of policy and operations crossover kind of happens.

So I'll give you an example of something I've been thinking a little bit about.

We hear of a lot of people speak to the issue of too many t-shirt shops, you know, like is that is that the level of success when another business opens, it's another t-shirt shop.

It's like shouldn't we be looking at some more diversification?

Okay, yes.

How do we do that?

And so if we were to say, well, we need to invest in some different tools, whether it's recruitment tools to some other goal or some analysis work as to what would be the types of successful businesses that would be an alternative.

Um we might need a budget ask to do some of that work, and then that's absolutely where your policy level could come into that place.

Um and we would want you would want your different feedback on what success looks like there.

That wouldn't really feel like we made progress.

We weren't thinking that that was diversification.

So thanks.

Appreciate everyone letting me ask a few questions as well.

Not trying to play gotcha, but I think informationally in a lot of my one-on-ones, this question of like, what are our lanes?

What does what does council does policy mean in practice keeps coming up?

So the spirit of the questions is trying to figure out with this group, what the answers are.

Camille and Alizina.

Thank you.

Can you revisit product development?

Share that again, please.

Yeah, so product is we in our profession we define product as people and places.

That is going to attract new investment, expansion, all sorts of things like that.

And we define those people and places through places being buildings and sites, and then people being, you know, workforce in your town pipeline.

And it's not just enough to have, you know, some people mistake like acreage and available land as a site.

It's not just enough to have a the land.

So at those sites, I'm glad that you clarified that for me.

Thank you.

Two things.

One at the sites, and you brought up like you know, you gotta have the power, gotta have the water, but also if there's going to be a restaurant, right?

You've got to have the appropriate ventilation and other needs.

So we've seen the business suffer and go out of business.

I know that there's going to be another one, but because they could not flourish there, how do we, as a town, it may not be us, but how do we how do we get in on the front end?

Because we've said, oh, we love multi per we love multi-use structures, but how do we make sure that what the developer says they're going to be targeting as a business coming in?

That business can flourish there.

Yeah, you know, I think this goes back to principle that y'all have discussed before about functional design, right?

And being really intentional about what can go in certain places and then the overall design elements of that.

I think as developers are going out and you know, telling you this is what we want to bring to the area, and you guys do this in your council meetings already, some degree, you ask them, well, like what how does that need to be designed in order to be successful?

Right.

So you know, if somebody says, well, we want to do multifamily or mixed use, and then we want to have a bunch of retail on the bottom, and they're just talking about they want to have a restaurant on one in particular.

Um probably a great idea to incorporate some form of setbacks in that design, or some other design elements that will allow for functional costs to be incurred so that they don't have to like rent a giant crane to put HVAC on top of the building, right?

And so asking those questions of the developers, like I hear from you that you guys are wanting to recruit, maybe it's a maybe it's like a another restaurant or some sort of like retail user, right?

Asking questions like what what types of design elements are going to lead to success in that is a really important way to do that.

And your planners also do a great and excellent job looking out for that.

So as they just missed it with but I think you guys are setting the stage for not just this council but future councils to come by like making that a sticking point, it's going to be really powerful and set the stage for the future as well.

Thank you.

The second part of that support to you.

Second part of that is the sites being the shared the community space.

So help us envision how you are helping to develop that or encourage us to have that developed.

So, and I'm just asking a clarifying question.

Are you asking about like how we ensure like some public benefit on sites or the incorporation of that?

Yes, I'm assuming, right?

If I were a business owner and I'm thinking of relocating or bringing my or going to invest in people there, and I'll speak bringing the this would be something else that I would want is some public space where my people and the public can interact, and there's a greater chance of people coming in.

And so I'm just curious, am I receiving correctly?

So we will certainly advise folks on their development strategies, and we actually have a really strong approach with Taz and Brian Peterson where we get we call it how we get to a good project.

And we meet with prospects, the very early stages, and we try and articulate to them like you know, the vision, the opportunity, and then the realism of doing business in Chapel Hill, and also like what is that space going to look like to be successful?

And we hit on some of those notes about you know this idea of public space in that because it's an important part of your complete community strategy too, right?

And so we're trying to be good champions of that.

Um the other thing with this is like we're we try really hard to be great matchmakers for businesses and tenant prospective tenants, just people that are looking for new space, you know, we see our role very differently.

We don't get a commission when somebody moves into a space.

We're trying to play good matchmaker because we don't we don't have a stake in it.

We're just trying to pair people with the best space possible so that we don't encounter some functional design issues and things like that.

And so that's another way that that can sort of interact.

Yeah, I and I plan on talking about it a little bit more, but one thing that we've been really emphasizing is in building relationships with businesses.

I've been able to get ahead of people before they sign basis.

Most of the time.

Most of the time.

And um I've been working really closely with building development services, and there's been many times that we've gone out on the remoffers and gone over all their desired changes, and we'll be honest whether or not we think this is the right fit for them, or what are we thought we need to do for what they want to do?

Thank you for the Camille.

Are you asking about like a downtown gathering space, or are you asking about just individual projects and like having good urban design either or either or I must be trying to do it with Elizabeth?

And then here, I think I might derail us a little less if I hold off until further on the presentation.

Okay, just raise your hand when you're ready again.

I just feel like it's like a little more those are still kind of broad.

We have four more pillars.

Uh, Paris.

Thank you.

My question kind of piggybacks off of some of the things that um Camille was talking about.

I'm thinking about within our downtown, a lot of that downtown space is like really out of date.

And um just thinking about canes, right?

How long it took for them to you know bring it up to code and all of that stuff.

And so what examples have you all seen across the nation where there's this privately owned um infrastructure that is very much prominent, you know, within a town, a city, um, where the burden then falls on you know whoever can afford to upfit and upgrade and you know, bring things to to code, um which becomes the barrier, right, for small businesses that we want to attract, local businesses that we want to attract, versus the larger commercial canes who have deeper pockets to be able to do that thing.

And so I guess my question is um you know what have you all seen in terms of like partnership with whoever owns that from a town perspective to um bring these aging crumbling sometimes, completely out of code infrastructures, buildings that become a barrier to us achieving our goals.

You just hit the nail on the head with uh something that we talk about often in our office is that you know sometimes these deep pocket institutions are the only ones that can afford to update one of these spaces, um, and it's a really tough point that we've got to contend with.

Um it's a really tough point that we've got to contend with.

Um we have great relationships with some of our utility partners that own that essential infrastructure in the area that will then feed to the private side.

Um and we're in ongoing discussions with them is like what can we do collaboratively to address the need for update this essential infrastructure.

But you can't move into a building if you can't wash toilets, right?

You can't run a business in that.

Um I'll say we're still figuring that out.

We're assessing what that looks like and what we can actually do collaboratively together.

It is a huge barrier for our downtown because of you know a few factors, one of which being that the overall age of some of the infrastructure in the buildings in downtown.

The other thing we've seen outside of being collaborative with your utility providers, the design programs and plans that can best support that need.

The other thing that we've seen is great property owner engagement, and we have started to compile what we really already have a compiled up-to-date property owner lists that we're constantly monitoring, just like we're building relationships with business owners, we're trying our hardest to build relationships with property owners.

Because sometimes they live like 10 states away, right?

And they're just absentee.

And so it's important for us that we let them know how important it is that maybe you know we're trying to fill a retail gap in a certain area, or trying to not maximize your return on investment or the lease amount that you're generating, but fill the space with what could be a thriving business, so that then you don't lose a tenant in you know yeah, five months because they just say, ah, well, this isn't working out anymore.

Um so we're constantly, we're we don't have a perfect answer today, but we are working on that, and I appreciate you asking about that.

Okay, I'm not bubbled off in one because of Paris is on control.

Okay.

So one of the things you see, we're talking about policy things.

I wondered if one of the um in our experience as downtown business owners, uh, we have found and in you know, talking to um different real estate property owners, real estate brokers, etc.

One of the barrier main barriers to entry is that outfit cost of like, and particularly because um things can fall so far out of code under one owner, that then when someone new comes in and tries to, or one tenant, and then someone I should say owner and tenant.

Sometimes it's the tenant, sometimes it's the owner, but scary responsibility.

Um then you know, if you want to do even a minimum amount of upfit or per put a certain type of business in there, the amount of construction that that would that would need that would be required to do that kind of upfit and kicks you into uh an area where you have to bring everything up to code, which landlords are very, very rarely willing to help with the cost of.

And even if it's not, like you said, like you have to have toilets that flush.

So, like even if it's not a code issue, it's like if the ceiling is rotting, that might not well, actually, if it's restaurant health department, not like that either, but um, the things that health department or other people don't seem to care that the health department doesn't like.

Um but uh yeah, that cost that that I think is probably the main barrier to entry, and we know several different like successful entrepreneurs who have had businesses in Durham or other parts of Chapel Hill that have tried to put things in downtown that like have been looking for years and haven't been able to because the the landlord relationship is so fraught and unreasonable.

And the other thing I'll say, in case anybody thinks that the answer is to tear everything down and start over, um places where we have seen new buildings, the rent that the developers want to charge for the new spaces are sometimes $15 a square foot more than even on like you think of like main street downtown real estate as being like the prime area, right?

Well, University Mall wanted to charge $15 a square foot more, which I don't know if it's might be hard, but that's a lot.

That's a lot more.

Um and I know South Creek, we've seen several different people who were interested in putting makes in South Creek walk away because the rents were so so high.

Um, and so I think it's sort of the same thing that we see with with home building, you know, the new stuff is more expensive.

Um policy-wise, I would love it if we could pursue incentives not just for bigger companies, but for either landlords with older buildings or small businesses who need to do upfits that somehow subside the cost of that infrastructure upfit that could help a wide variety of businesses who aren't just the canes of the world come in and and bring these spaces back to code and to like successful business shape.

I think that's something we could really work on policy-wise.

And I think you guys probably have a lot of examples for us of like where that has happened and how it's gone well, and I don't think we probably would have to reinvent the wheel, but yeah, that is right.

I guess before we move on, I just wanted to.

I thought Theo's question was really good and helpful.

And I guess the the thing that I have experienced on this council was like you know, we did our revive plan as an emergency plan for pandemic recovery, right?

But before that, we did have an economic development plan, like a strategic plan, and we created our incentives policy, and we did these things that I guess um, and and please be brutally honest.

I'm not saying that we have to do things the way we've done them, but I have always seen a very strong role for council in setting that high-level strategy instead, and then and then we get to throw those things on the table, right?

Of like, well, can we update our incentives policy to be more targeting of certain things?

Um, when we talk about downtown, we want a 12-month-you're downtown, so that has implications for having kind of um certain types of housing where people would actually be there during the summer, right?

Like, there's all these things that I feel like I'm just very unclear about.

Like, we're clearly shifting from the pre-pandemic economic development plan, but I don't feel like the council has been specifically involved in that piece.

So I'm just like this all sounds great, and it sounds like you're doing your job really well.

Like it's not, I'm not trying like it just is hard for me to figure out where that updating of that plan happens, or if you're feeling like that wasn't an appropriate role for council to have in the past.

I you know, I'll say we would love to have the economic development strategic plan that's fresh, it's up to date.

We don't have that, right?

Um, the last time we did it was in 2017, taking up the revived plan.

Um, and it's it's pretty regular for the profession that have you know a sort of a long-range policy level document that is driving not just the work of today, but the work of you know, next year, the year after, and then that we make progress towards that, and then that is a policy-level decision that helps everybody define what success.

And then you create the metrics, right?

Like that's so why aren't we doing that?

Um, I was gonna say one thing too.

Like, I think would David coming in should be really direct and honest.

Like, I think we were really focusing on kind of building up those foundational pieces we were really missing, and that's what we've been focused on for the past you know, year and a half, two years now.

Um, you know, building those transparent and authentic relationship with business in, like, we didn't have an existing business program like at all.

And those are like really poor pieces of our work that just weren't there.

Um, and maybe at least what we're hearing about maybe it's time to visit about it, yeah.

Well, I don't, I mean, if if that would be a council decision, obviously, I just thought that that was where we were headed, I guess.

And I am curious what council thinks if that's a reasonable way to spend our time.

Like, I very much think it is, and if you're telling me that it is helpful and that it's valuable in order to drive work and also drive kind of measuring outcomes and deciding what we prioritize because we can't do everything.

There's three of you.

And one of you is in a different department.

Like I I just I guess like that feels to me like a functional people being their lanes, but I I do want to know what others think, or you know, um, yeah, less and then well, I'm mindful of time, but I would like you said it'd be like be nice to have it.

Let's look at where we're at.

I think we have to have it.

We've got lots of different threats and pressures.

We talk a lot about opportunities, but you know, Carolina North's gonna be built.

What opportunities are around there, or what are the threats around there for that area?

Um we have a school system that like other school systems in the state are losing funding, they're affecting the number of families that can move here.

There's a lot of factors going on.

There's federal money, there's state money.

Um we've got Chantal, we've got threats to areas with with climate change.

Um I feel like it's something we have to have because of there are so many different uh factors, different things going on that weren't here before COVID or pick a time frame.

I feel like it's important for us to look at for you to feed up into us all of the the new realities that we're in, not only now but in the next five, ten, fifteen years.

I feel like we're in a we're in a moment of like asking who Chapel Hill is, where we're going, what's possible, what's not possible, and all of that is to me very important and very uh it the time is now because things are moving fast and and the conditions are changing.

So I would hope we'd be on board for looking at how we can be very proactive and thinking about what the future of Chapel looks like from an economic development standpoint and what all these factors are in that make it different now than it has been before, and it will be in the future.

So I'm on board for it.

I mean, yeah, and this is a really good discussion.

Um given that this is a work session.

When I first saw this item, I was expecting more of that kind of discussion than your report out, which is very useful.

But again, the work session is you know, it's a it's the only opportunity we have for really good back and forth with you guys and with each other.

Um and I know looking through the presentation, then I saw some things like talking about more of uh our destination stuff.

And our old our older plans were always more focused on kind of innovation and that kind of thing.

So as I'm working through the presentation, like, well, is this are we have we made a policy change?

Are you guys recommending a policy change?

Then I you know, then please tell me why, and you know, if the old thing isn't working, what we need to do, or so I'm really feeling like that that's a discussion I was hoping we were gonna have tonight, and I hope we have it soon.

I I agree with what I said because I understand why you've been doing what you're doing and getting the good foundation in, but um, but as we plan to move ahead, I think it's really important to get things at a high level set early.

Everybody has by that means you guys have support, you have clear direction, and then just go do your thing.

So I'll just have a word uh yeah, I am on a suggestion because I sense the desire to want more.

So could we rather than pause for questions after the next four, I mean after the next three, just speed through them?

Sure.

Push through them, and then we can pose our questions at the end because I also wonder if there are some things that we've raised that we should have saved for the others.

So how about we don't pause for questions after the next few until you've completed number five?

Yeah.

Sounds great though.

So we're gonna speed through this.

Um so the next pillar that I want to touch on is community partnership.

Um really fundamental to understanding the work that we do.

Um so we collaborate with partners often.

Uh partners like the team.

Partners like empowerment.

Partners like launch local, or uh sorry, excuse me, launch.

We've got a few different programs with one of which we launch local, which we're really excited about.

Uh we know that you know some things that those partners do, it's better for us to help amplify and work with them because we are a small but mighty team.

We don't have the bandwidth to be doing all of this, right?

So we have to be able to do it together.

Yeah.

Um, and the one thing we want to want to call attention to you as one other area we're really interested in, but don't have the bandwidth is is workforce development.

Um, and the chamber has been a really great champion of that work and made a ton of progress being pulled together.

A workforce council that we are part of one the town in terms of just as economic developers in the community, but also as the town is a major reporter in this community.

So then advising on that, and we're making great strides.

I think one of the biggest things about the last two years is really recognizing that we have a lot of resources that are really under leverage, right?

There are tons of organizations doing really great things, but just people don't know about them.

And so a lot of the work in that workforce group has been identifying what is already going on and how do we leverage that better to kind of fit our community needs.

And then another function of this work is working with partners.

Sometimes we have performance awards and contracts with them.

And so we're doing we have a slate of sort of outside agency contracts that we administer, and we make sure that you know the partners that are receiving funds are and those vendors are also meeting performance metrics that help us achieve those high-level townwide policy decisions that you all also make, which is really important to just collaborate, to be honest with this is where Potter's gonna shine.

But I will try to talk fast, which is good because I all then aligned with Bracknorth, so I do tend to talk fast.

Um but as we kind of alluded to before, a lot of my work has been kind of building up our existing business program from the ground up.

Um, and the first thing we did with implement a business box program.

Um, so kind of highlighting those commercial nodes we talked about, we picked kind of six areas to kind of cluster folks together just for planning purposes.

And myself with Sarah Greese went out and visited every single physical business that was out there that was customer facing, um, went and introduced myself to make sure they knew who I was in this new role I was serving in, um, understood what our department did and what we can help them with and really build those relationships.

Um, we also asked about immediate needs and long-term concerns and things that they were just seeing, whether that was you know individual to them or something they're seeing in their industry.

Um, and after all those kind of areas, we would regroup, look at our notes, and assess kind of what the charges were, um, and if there was immediate needs, address those importantly.

Um, and so totally we visited about like 350 businesses total.

Um try to hit everyone possible.

Some businesses, you know, they're not within during normal business hours, so I tried to do targeted outreach to see if they wanted to be at a different time or to set up that point with them.

Um, and then I also did um one-on-one visits, site visits with major employers.

Um, so people like Vitmans and Honor Bridge and Carol Woods, and just went and sat down with their key staff to hear from them about what they're doing because it might also folks who are more like child care focused that might not want a stranger coming in unannounced in their business.

Um, so met with some daycarers, places like School Rock, um, just to hear how they're doing so.

That's everything like that.

Um, and then something I touched on a little bit before, but um really trying to be proactive with our support for businesses, so finding entrepreneur who are getting money to open their first business.

Um, I think one of the most common phrases I hear happen to existing businesses is I wish I could do this earlier.

Um, one of my major goals has been to decrease the amount of times people tell me that and make sure they're getting all their information and resources so that you can make smart decisions to help their business start.

Um and then one of those other things we're working on is a small business roadmap.

So we're kind of creating these one-stop guides to how to open a business for your particular industry in Capital Health.

And it's part of our one thing I think we did mention is our website.

Um, so we are in the process of um new website like updated with the new town brand.

Um, and so our goals to launch those roadmaps with the new website.

And then kind of unfortunate project fell on our lap was to develop an economic recovery center, really focused on Sham Towel.

Um, and a lot of the post work that went into that was also understanding like what information proactively can be provided to folks who may have not experienced something like this, but can help them in the future things would happen.

Um, how to have and think about fund insurance, how to have conversations about what location is best for your business.

So all that work.

That's a lot.

And I will say about the Economic Recovery Center in particular, that it's it's sort of blurred lines here.

We felt like it was important to call it out here, but also a really important part of the community partnership because we didn't just do that work alone.

We collaborated not only cross-departmentally, but the chamber played a very active role in giving us the infrastructure on their website to prop up something for a different audience, which is you know, some of these major employers in the area that were being affected, and they were looking towards a resource like that.

And we also partnered with Carborough, economic development on that too.

So that was really important work that we did in this space.

And I can answer any question, like how that is for out.

So another the third pillar that we want to brief y'all on is real estate or fourth, excuse me, real estate and active projects.

You know, we do a lot of work in this sort of bucket area.

So as I mentioned before, this is where we have things like incentive maintenance and fulfillment, active project maintenance, the things that you guys approve at a policy level, and then what happens to them.

They're not just like shovels don't go in the dirt the next day, like we have to nurture that project and get it to that point.

Um also leveraging real estate interest that the town does have and leveraging it effectively, parking services support, of course, and then developing in the town of Chapel Hill advising folks on how to do that effectively and efficiently, and that sort of that how do we make a great project approach that I mentioned earlier with Taz and then Brian Peterson?

Um, on these uh the pillars is access opportunity.

Um we've done a ton of recent work in language access uh for entrepreneurs and businesses, again, working cross-departmentally to achieve those interests.

Um we're working on access to capital and benefits.

Um, just a quick call out on that is you know, there's a new statewide initiative supported by the NC chamber, and our chamber participates, and we help nurture that program as well by marketing and advertising it.

Um I believe it's like NC Healthworks or NC Health Care Network.

Um, but basically there's a deal out there right now where if you're a chamber investor at either the participatory chamber or the NC chamber, um, you can have access to Blue Cross Blue Shield coverage that's way better than what you can get in the market.

So, like heavily subsidized, very unique, and BCBS essentially takes a hit on it, but they're offering that because they're committed to small business success, and it was a barrier.

And so we try and amplify those types of things as well.

Um, new business creation and attainment, so not only supporting new businesses like those free walkthroughs that Sarah mentioned earlier, helping reduce those barriers, but also helping businesses get the attainment credentials that can be competitive in state, federal, certain departmental uh contracting opportunities, like you know, HUD has a whole priority for MWBE certified businesses.

Well, if you're not a certified MWE vendor, how do you know what steps to take in order to bid on those types of projects?

Yes.

I'm so sorry.

Um MWBE is minority women-owned business enterprise, and there are certain certain certificate programs or attainment programs for those types of businesses.

There's also veteran, there's also BIPOC, there's a number of different attainment tools out there for businesses to further make themselves competitive in those types of opportunities.

Um, and then of course, reducing barriers of entry for entrepreneurs across the board, and that's you know, I mentioned launch local earlier.

We're really proud of that partnership that we have with launch.

Um just to quick note on that, we had budgeted for I think 20, 25 participants.

The program was heavily oversubscribed.

We had like 45 applicants, right?

So there's a real need for that type of program in this market, and what launch local is focused on is on think of like small businesses, mom and pop shops, you know, not necessarily chain rush um uh companies or restaurants, but really just like organically grown businesses and communities that are really important for the crop.

Some of our longer term opportunities, and we talked a little bit about this earlier.

We see, in the spirit of the work that we've done with partners on the Savannah Bananas, for example, we see catalyzing Chapel Hill's destination industry as a really strong opportunity.

It generates and boosts sales tax, it generates and boosts occupancy tax revenue.

It makes us a more vibrant place overall.

And so we're doing a lot of work in this space right now.

Additionally, the NS Rapid Corridor Investment Strategy, that is actually scratching the itch, if you will, for a focus on innovation as well.

So we have a window of opportunity with the federal disaster declaration of Tietchan Call and a federal funder of the Economic Development Administration or Agency called the acronym EDA, their house in the U.S.

Department of Commerce.

They have a grant program.

They're willing to offer us Capitol Hill to apply to it.

We're normally not eligible.

But with the disaster declaration, we can.

So where they would take on 70% of the bill, and we might do 30% bill.

And we came to them with the original idea of like, what if we did an innovation district strategy, right?

Like an innovation district corridor strategy.

Focused in on that.

They said, you're not thinking big enough.

And so we zoomed out and we looked at, well, we came back to them and we said, what about if we did the whole North South Bus Rapid Transit Corridor?

And they love that.

So Innovation District is a part of this book.

It's a chapter of this book in a priority place.

But it's looking at other town wide long-range policy decisions that y'all have made, other objectives that you've set, and try to amplify those as well.

And we think this can help us further some of the current commercial node and activity node work that we're also doing.

So that's a really exciting opportunity.

And then streetscape and wayfinding implementation.

Y'all did a ton of great work with adopting plans for streetscape and wayfinding.

And we're, you know, that's not something that we can just do overnight.

It's more of a long range, both negotiating ability that you've empowered us with when we're working with private developers, especially in downtown, but also framework for implementing wayfinding really strategically in downtown, so that we can refresh and update some of our portals that are really important.

So we're constantly working on that as well.

David, could you because we're on this one, could you talk a little bit about the opportunity zones and how those are, I think, I mean, they're being refreshed or whatever, right?

And they may be different.

And I guess I'm just wondering if we know what that means, or how we how we capitalize on that.

Yeah, that's a great question.

So opportunity zones are a big deal.

It was a they were first enabled with the tax bill that Trump passed in this last administration.

Um now we're at 2.0.

He passed the new bill, and he's sort of setting them all up again.

Um the last time opportunity zones came around, they followed the census track, and actually the census track that we just built a new parking deck in, and that you know, we've kind of minted as innovation district and a place of focus for new growth and development, that was in an opportunity zone.

Still is in an opportunity zone.

It will be in an opportunity zone until 2048.

But the program to be able to participate in that program, that time has lapsed.

So they're refreshing it to 2.0.

And the governors of every state are tasked with assigning or basically identifying what opportunity zones they want to choose.

Last time it was really important for the governor to sign at least one opportunity zone in every county.

So they did at least one at every OZ in every county.

This time it's going to look a little bit different.

You can only improve so many.

There's going to be less.

So maybe it's not one in every county.

But back to some earlier comments, we at least know where they could be.

We know the likely eligible census tracks for opportunity zones.

One of them is the same census track that Carolina North is in.

Yeah.

Which is a big deal.

And the way a good way to think about opportunity zones and how you can leverage them.

And why it's so important this time around is because we actually know how to use them.

And they really come into effect when you're talking about capital gaining tax.

So not everybody can participate.

Capital gains is a certain threshold of tax where you're thinking six figures and above.

And it's mostly about the selling and disposition of properties and the reclamation of properties.

And so when you talk about new development and remediation, that's really important.

And so it's a program we're hyper focused on.

We're advocating with our council of governments, not TJ Cog anymore, Central Pines.

And we're also working closely with our county and the university to try and figure out how can we best maximize that option.

And so you said that if you already are in one, so the the and it's the one before was over, is over by the parking deck, right?

And so you said it's active through 2048.

Is that right?

Yeah.

But you already have to be in it.

Like you already have to have done some activity in it, right?

Yeah, so you would have had to make qualifying investments by 2026.

So like start of this year to be able to participate in the capital gains that are gonna, the benefits that are going to survive until 2048.

I see.

So it's got to be delivered, invested in now, or else you're not going to be able to take advantage of that IRS tax credit.

So we missed the vote on this one already.

Not entirely.

The building that Brooke refurbished and remediated and remodeled, that took advantage of opportunities and tax credits.

That was able to happen because of this program.

And so if something was entitled down there or on the way to be entitled, and they were able to actually like invest the capital before next year, then it would also be in the program, is that right?

It would have had to be invested at the start of this year.

So it doesn't qualify anymore.

Got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We committed to getting all this table.

I had a council question come in about where are we at with incentives?

So this is our incentive fulfillment table that we have.

You guys have four active cash-based performance agreements with vendors.

Those include Caraway Village, Wagmans, Glen Lennox, and Welldock.

These are cash-based performance agreements.

You'll notice we're not including the credits that y'all have offered on the parking opportunities, right?

So which well dot is participatory of, and y'all have recently approved the East of Seeds project.

So you have a few of these that are actually rolling off pretty soon.

The Glen Lennox one is this fiscal year, right?

We're at the last bit of that.

I want to call special attention also to Caraway Village.

What y'all approved was not an expiration year with that agreement back when it was first getting designed, but it was more of like a high watermark.

So they had a total pot of money to draw from, and they've been chipping away at that, but that's why it reads 72,000 is planned for next fiscal year, not 265,000, which was awarded in the past.

So that's the end.

Yeah.

And then the Glen Lennox agreement is in red because we're still working through the fulfillment process on that.

But you know, we're they invoice us and we're delivering on that commitment for you all.

Um so the planned uh cash-based performance awards for next fiscal year are described in the state.

And that is the official end of this presentation.

Uh and happy to questions away.

Questions, discussion, and have thoroughbox.

Here so I just wanted to revisit the HUD WE.

I know that we partner with Empowerment with Bright Path Solutions, and they um are uh HUD certified for housing.

Um have we had any conversations with them in terms of becoming certified with in conjunction with Bright Path Solutions for HUD in W.

That's a great question.

Uh we have collaborated with Bright Path in the past for um they have their their own business accelerator program that they can put folks through, and we do collaborate with getting those businesses that come through, making sure they're aware of the attainment opportunities, uh making sure that they have all the information that they need to be successful, and that we have also shared that with Bright Path solutions in the past as well.

Um we're always happy to support folks through that process and find the best attainment that suits their need to other council questions.

Not a question but comment, but uh just for me, I would say if if you're gonna use this table in the future, I would love to see this.

Looks like a lot of money going out, but I'd love to have it with the money coming in and showing a net like what we're getting for it because right now it just looks like we just gave away a bottom, we just gave away a bunch of money, and I want to make sure that we tell a story, the complete story of we we did these incentives, and what we got out of it was this.

I think that would that would um that would tell us what we need to know, but also tells a compelling story of how these incentive works and what we can get, what we can lose.

We will absolutely amend that and add a chart in um future presentations because this table comes up a lot, but you're right, it doesn't tell the whole story.

Yeah, so we'll add a chart.

Y'all know I like my cumulative cash flow chart uh that describes you know what the return on that investment is.

I'll help you.

I we um we did a great data visualization workshop.

So I learned a lot about how to make a good data table based on psychological psychological principles of memory.

So I will be editing your table.

I'll be editing your tables ahead.

Fantastic, uh Elizabeth.

I want to go back to Amy's comment about and well, a little bit about if you know a strategic plan, and if that's I mean, I'll be in it sounds like it's certainly appropriate to revisit.

Umxious, can we talk about time for a strategic plan because it feels like when we do those things sort of stop until we have a new strategic plan?

And I think that you guys are again there are only three of you, and one of you is in a different department, and so um it's not that I I 100% agree that it's critical so that these things are happening according to a unified and clear vision, and also how do we achieve that without um everything blending to a halt in the meantime?

Um because capital investment and how it happens will continue to happen whether or not we are steering it, and so we want to have a say in how that happens and whether or not it's happening in our town and how it's happening in our town, we kind of can't just like let that drive itself in the meantime.

Um I also then wanted to go back if we're you know, if we're talking sort of like high-level strategic plan, Amy's comment about like we had an innovation focused, and like you know, seeing the note about destination, you know, sort of solidifying ourselves through destination and the destination industry.

I don't think we should think about those as separate.

I think that they're really intertwined and that the one feeds the other, um, and then it places our looking at where to I mean, I think I think it even goes as so far as workforce, right?

Like you're gonna have more highly trained um a more highly trained workforce and people more eager to come work in the businesses in your town if you have a town that is pleasant and um interesting and viable to be in.

And so I really think that they all I don't think we can look at like are we doing cool things or are we doing innovative things?

Like they kind of have to happen together in order to support each other.

Yeah, um I just wanted to uh say that it sounds to me like you probably have a good idea what your strategic work plan is and that that may in fact be the strategic plan.

Um it seems that um if there are things that you know in your work plan that needs our decision making because you guys have done the outreach, you guys have done the you know, you've got a plan, you've got priorities, you've got all this kind of stuff.

I don't think we need to do so much a strict strategic plan for you.

It sounds like it's pretty much done, and and that you just need to ask are there any things that we need to give you decisions on to refine it for um utility of the future.

Is that that right?

Yeah, that's a that's a really great point.

I mean, we do have a good grasp on you know what we're doing, and um Sarah mentioned it a little bit earlier when I got on board, we honed in on the fundamentals, y'all.

Like it's really important to do the thing about MASO's hierarchy of needs.

You've got to have an existing business support program.

You've got to focus on the fundamentals.

You can't you know be just going road and doing whatever you want.

Um that's a core part of our strategy.

We can't do a destination marketing engagement without having right on the word that's not.

I'm just saying it's it's difficult to envision David going road.

You'd be thrived.

So, you know, that's a core function.

I will be honest, the the stuff, this content that y'all have seen, these strategic pillars, this is our annual program of work where we start thinking about long-range stuff, these are the long-term opportunities that we've identified, right?

And so that's the extent of what we you know what we do.

We're not just you know uh not going road, but flying without a purpose or building plan as we fly.

We we have some intentionality of what we're doing, right?

To your point.

Um so yeah, we've just sort of structured it in an annual program of work sort of fashion, um, not five, ten years down the road.

Because we don't have the bandwidth for that.

I mean, honestly, we we just simply do not.

We've got to make sure that we're doing the fundamentals really, really well as a team.

Thank you.

When I was suggesting an um, I was suggesting an update.

I was hoping not hoping that we were starting from scratch at all.

Um I would imagine that you guys would be telling us things that we need to know or that you know that are obviously gonna be part of it.

So I didn't mean to imply that we were just scrapping things, and also I mean putting anything on hold.

I don't think that's I don't think we can, and you've been operating for a couple years now without an a refreshed strategic plan or of economic development strategy, and so I don't know why you would stop.

Um we wouldn't want you to, but I do think I think I guess to me, if we as a board are not coalescing around certain things, then when you come to us with budget requests or with other things, it feels like it feels out of stink, I guess.

Yeah.

And what I you know, just uh reinforce some of what you're talking about.

We really see this NS Rapid Corridor Investment Strategy as a potential opportunity to achieve some of that interest, right?

Um, and to you know, do that really cost-sufficient way.

I mean, getting a federal partner that could potentially do 70% of that, that's really great.

So that's what we're shooting for.

Um yeah, we're not we would never put anything on pause.

Um but no, I mean, even with the revive plan, a lot change.

Right?

Well, I think of anything before COVID is like I call that in the before times.

Yeah, you know, that's it's sort of totally different market conditions back then, you know.

So yeah, we're we're constantly sort of trying to update our own program work and refresh, be modern, um just deliver on the results that you all want to see.

Oh, this is um going back to that chart at the end, there's the Glenn Linux line.

I wonder if there'd be a chance to hear a little bit more about what's going on down there.

Some of the neighbors are concerned that like maybe deviated from what we originally thought.

So like, you know, update, and it's not something we have to do now, maybe respond later, but just like an update, so we can share it with the neighbors of like, hey, we thought this was gonna happen, but this has happened.

I don't know that they're I think that they haven't submitted anything, right?

So I'm not sure there's anything to say.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I unless they submit something, I don't know what there is to say.

We don't have anything to react to until they submit something for that sort of discussion.

Um, but what I will say is you know, our planning department does a great job liaison for those types of bills um as it relates to the overall development.

I mean, we can we'll talk with them and work with them on you know, maybe gathering information.

Yeah, that would be great.

There's a lot of concern down there.

For sure.

Do you have any thoughts on refreshing hard strategy?

I like the idea of like I want Louis little suggestion of like maybe you could just like present like your strat what you think that it sounds like you have a strategy, like Melissa was saying, and like if we have a chance to respond to it, and that could be a place to like so you're clearly integrating our conversations around like um walkable communities and all that.

So like if there are other high-level things that we think about our beside, I could think about like we probably want to have like you're probably already doing this with like an emphasis on resiliency and like climate future, so like if that could be like another pillar.

I'm not saying that has to be one, but like something like that.

Yeah, so and I just want to react really quick to that.

Um two things.

Number one, I mean, this is our what what I've shown you all today is our strategic plan.

This is it.

Um as an annual program of work, we are rooted in these sorts of activities, right?

And uh we do have a unique collaboration going on with um uh around sort of environmental resiliency, commercial property assessed clean energy was recently passed, and it's acronym CPACE.

Orange the state passed it, and then Orange County passed it, and now anybody can take advantage of it if they find a participatory lender.

And essentially what CPACE does is it provides a subordinate lien on your property tax bill so that you have a reliable uh I guess source of payment from the lender's perspective for qualifying improvements.

So to break it down for you, if you want to install solar panels on your property as a commercial business owner or commercial property owner, if that's something that's really important to you, you can go to a private lender, let's say um starts with not Punch.

Pinnacle?

Pinnacle.

You can go to Pinnacle, for example, you can say, Pinnacle, I want to take out a loan to support installing the solar panel.

Well, pinnacle loves that they don't have to come to you every month for a payment, right?

It's not a reliable way to secure that money.

They just work through the CPACE program and get it through your tax bill, and that's how you make your payment, and then they're able to offer you less of an interest rate on that lending note.

So that's a really important new tool that we have, and that we're collaborating with John Richardson and his team, um, other partners across the state on, uh, and we're still figuring that program out.

The first two projects, one happened in Raleigh, and I think the other one was in Gaston County, and I can double check that.

Um, but we're just getting up to speed.

It's something that was really popular elsewhere in North Carolina is kind of playing catch-up.

Can I can I add one kid to that?

And now there's the theory is that you're paying for it with your energy savings.

That's the goal.

I I like that way of going forward.

I also like that idea that you suggested like we think about in the long term of like how can we get away from like trouble spaces like ECAD?

So that can also be part of like our long-term strategy.

I really like that suggestion.

Yep.

Uh well, Elizabeth, and then Pierce.

Or did I not see you?

Oh, sorry, Sarah's.

Yeah, sorry, West.

There's some Midwest.

Okay.

Yeah, just in track.

I was just something too that just to go back to the downtown and those aging, is this also an opportunity there?

Yeah, it certainly is.

One of the qualifying investments or improvements you can make that CPACE can pay for or help pay for things like weatherization of your building.

Are things like updating HVAC systems?

Right?

So there are some big energy improvements that people sometimes don't think of directly as maybe being qualifying.

And so we're frequently educating people of those new tools and resources like CPAS so that they can know and be aware and help them.

And that would be on our new website.

Yeah, it is, and it's on the current website too.

Yeah.

So we have some you know, really cursory information about CPACE on the existing website if you go to the economic dump tech.

Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'll just be the last thing I say in it, but I do think whether it's a strategic plan or or whatever it is, there's something about these big level visions of what we're gonna be.

Um climate tech is taking off on RTP.

Are we gonna be a center for climate tech in these corridors?

Um the dreaded or perhaps opportunity minded AI stuff, the university's making big investments in AI.

How are we gonna deal with AI investments?

We're talking about small businesses.

If we want to invest in small businesses, just like we're talking about Wasamba, we gotta make public investments in infrastructure to get the results.

Do we got to make public investments in infrastructure for small businesses if we want to be a beacon for small businesses?

What about work from home?

Do we want to be like the work from home capital of North Carolina?

Who knows?

But I mean, seriously, like what is but we don't know.

And so the community is looking for us to have an idea of like who is Chapel Hill, what are we doing?

Five years ago, I would have said we're gonna be a biotech hub on Rosemary Street, Longfellow was a big deal you all talked about.

Where's that at?

Is Chapel Hill going to be a biotech hub anymore?

Evitols.

We have local people interested in uh personal electric traveling air vehicles, and the governor was in one on an Instagram post because North Carolina's picked as one of the 20 states that's getting federal assistance for that.

So who are we?

What are we doing, and and what is that story we're telling about where Chapel was going and how we make those investments?

I think maybe the narrative piece is what we're missing.

Because like I think we've discussed a lot of kind of long race, strategic things, but I don't think I don't know if the narrative is there.

And I think that's important if we're gonna communicate it to the public.

I think there are actually decisions there though, too.

I mean, I think there are, and I think it's really I think it's really smart to have that longer range knowing that you all are doing an amazing job on the on the day-to-day and the annual, right?

And I think having that information again, we're always right, council should be at that longer range.

We're not supposed to be at the tactical weekly, monthly, yearly, right?

And so I think being able to get back up to that level of this is the longer range plan, and then hopefully those work really well together, right?

Like that's the ideal, but it's not to say that you all are not doing amazing things or that you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing.

I think you are.

I just think we kind of need to do what we're supposed to do.

Um and making it explicit helps the community understand and helps us remember and you know, we said, oh, we'd like to do this.

You say, no, no, you adopted this plan we're doing.

Yeah, that's right.

Okay, holding us accountable for that.

That's true.

It's important too.

This is really good feedback of the kind that we were hoping that we we would get from putting this in front of you.

Um just to build on that the bio research, long fellow web lab, that vision was probably a viable one when it was put in play, but times have changed gone, and that market has changed significantly.

So we've already identified that as a probably a chapter that we need for the page on around where we go next.

And so bring back to council for your concurrence and uh advice is appropriate and agree.

Yeah, thank you.

When you started this, uh put my laptop away instead of just watching this, just remind us next time these icons.

This is where we're lifting up our priorities because some of the things that we commented on, you you had it there, we just didn't we may not have seen it.

Um the narrative part I will say will be helpful for us.

I think you all are doing, I and I don't think that I'm the only one.

Uh you all are doing a fabulous job considering who's on you know how few are on your team, not who's on because of who's on the team are doing a fabulous job, and I just I I cited you last well, I referenced someone said, How do I help some a friend who just launched a business in a different town?

And one of the things that I suggested was to get in touch with your community's economic development office because I believe a lot of newbies have no idea that you are there for them and not just part of the government, right?

Yeah, people forget that the government is for them.

We do a lot of demystifying, we're here for y'all.

Like we're we're working to help you, and you don't get a commission to do anything.

That's how they go out and search for that because they always look at it.

So, council, am I hearing that there is support for updating the plan looking at and you all have to help us be smart about that?

But you know, maybe there are opportunities to update our incentives policy.

You'll have you know, you'll have to tell us what we can do and what we can't do, and what what's smart, but I think um I'd also really like to understand kind of how these things fit together with our other, you know, downtown for instance is a good example to me of um we I think we're we're getting there, um, but trying to figure out who does what, who's best positioned to do which task?

There's there's a downtown organization, there's the town, there's the university, the visitors bureau, there's you know what I mean?

Like, there's so many players, and I think even understanding who how that is all gonna work together to create this thing we want it to be, which I think it is really well positioned to be.

But isn't that the tactical?

I don't think so.

What roles everybody's playing?

Yeah, because I would think that it may shift, and that it is what's that word that I'm looking for, that it is um constantly that's not it.

But it's I would think it's more fluid than you know, if if they explain to us what it is today, that it could very well change the training upon those partners' situations, and that it has to shift.

I remember when you all did shift.

Um we had a partner that was doing something like business vitality, and yours is much different, much more enriched.

So I would say that that is more, I wouldn't I would think that that would be tactical rather than strategic.

Just to be clear, I don't want to dictate who does what.

I want to understand that all of it's you know, like that it's all coming together to meet the goals, not that we're like, okay, that's that's a downtown partnership, and that always has to be the downtown partnership.

I think it's more about obviously we're working with other organizations, and so if we just report out on what we're doing, it doesn't even equal the totality, like our goals could be met through the downtown partnership instead of Sarah and David.

I'm like David Potter, okay.

Um so it's not to dictate who does what I think it's to understand how our goals are being that holistically is more what I'm getting at.

But certainly whoever's as long as it's getting done, right?

That's what we care.

I think so.

My challenge, what I was challenging was do we just hear who the partners are rather than who which things the partners are doing because that could be very fluid that that could change, and you're not does that mean you agree with me, or are you just following along?

I think there's a little bit of both, to be honest with you.

Um I think there's some evolution with any sort of role that some entity plays, and so it's really hard to prescribe that and then it'd be like written as so, right?

There's always going to be some evolution there, and I do think it's valuable to look at some of your so I'll pick on well, I'll pick on some of the community partnership stuff, right?

Like it's valuable for us to look at things like workforce development and say, you know, who's operating in this space?

It's important to us to do, it's essential for us to be somehow involved.

Chambers doing.

But yeah, I mean, do we need to be the ones at the table doing this?

We actually see chambers be really successful in their work with workforce development.

Now, are they always going to be doing work for us?

I don't know.

Um, we know some constant players there, but for right now, we know that we can collaborate with the chamber on that, and we see it as a real opportunity.

Um, but we'll certainly evolve those relationships and roles, and you know, over time so that we can meet those objectives and interests, I think.

Um and be quite responsive to when you know an NSP needs potentially not do something.

If we need to build the gap.

So am I hearing generally that people are up for a economic development plan refresh?

Yeah.

Um as long as it doesn't derail and take so much time that they I don't get derailed.

I feel like like somewhere in between.

Because as you said, you already basically proposed just strategic development.

So I'm I mean a strategic plan.

So I don't feel like my appetite and what I thought I was hearing, but maybe other people are that sounds maybe last we're looking a little more structured and like look more like the parks master plan, etc.

But um my preference would be for a middle road.

Can you do a sort of something?

Well, I was gonna ask this, maybe we're hearing there are certain things that you're presenting tonight that you want to have some more discussion on, or hear more about why we came to this.

Is that maybe where we're I don't think that's what I'm suggesting, but maybe council wants that.

I I mean I think it's good to be clear so that you're not going and doing 20 things, or you know what I mean, or but I guess what I was suggesting is more um looking at the old plan and saying, like this either is still great, this doesn't like you know, long fellow income.

So, you know, like this is a place where based on trends that you guys will help us be smart about or things that are going on, like you've been telling us like there are kind of some choices, or there are some longer term strategies that we need to make some choices on, and then obviously we're not in the getting into the day-to-day of the things that you're doing that are like just good economic development work.

Um that makes sense to me sort of a middle road, like taking the old strategic plan and sort of like redlining it like, okay, based on where we are post-pandemic and the interests that we've heard from council, here is how it like, and then rather than like as you said, not starting from scratch, like rather than just doing that just like presenting us with a refreshed revised version.

But I think we need to have the policy choices be clear.

I guess that's my only thing too, is like when there are real choices, I want to understand.

I want you to give us a recommendation, but I want you to help us understand what the choices are, and then and I don't want it, and I and I if the old plan, you're like, guys, this is just not how it's done anymore, then like great, then I then we shouldn't do that.

You know, I was gonna like it sounds like what we've heard tonight, but this is what we're doing.

This is our like annual plan.

Yeah, well, I'm not sure how much our whole plan is really relevant anymore.

Like David, how much is that telling us?

So you're sort of heading in a direction I was gonna offer y'all.

Uh sounds like there's interest for potential middle ground here.

And the old plan was in the before times, it's not all exactly relevant anymore.

Um we have this.

We do this really well.

And so maybe what we do is we a lot of these are annual activities that we take on for our program of work, right?

Maybe we stretch them.

And we bring y'all something that clearly articulates the connection to your four strategic priorities, leverages these pillars, but then stretches them out in some long range fashion, like just picking on these three examples right here, right?

Right?

Is that sort of I feel like that's some middle ground is building on what we already have furthering it, getting out of the day-to-day in the annual and looking long range policies?

What are long range policy decisions and goals that y'all can set that affect community partnership that affect product and posh?

Like those sorts of things.

And we can rename them as we go through it if y'all want to, but the spirit of them we can amplify.

Yeah, I think for me, knowing that how long have you been in this position?

Two years.

Yeah, I think about two years, and um you've been able to like assess and look and see where we're at, and what are her early on where there's some real gaps that we're missing, and now you said some core foundational things, and I think um whatever you bring to us will help down ground us in that um and help us move forward.

So moving us from where we were to where we are now and project into the future.

So I think that middle ground, this yeah, I feel like strategic.

I think you've already been thinking about it.

I know when coming into a new job, like I the first thing I said was where's our strategic plan?

I can't get anything done without that, and I spent the summer doing that.

And it just set the course for the whole year, and so I feel like you've done some of that work bringing us along, um, understanding as the uh mayor just said, like you know, those key policy points that you can help guide us, you know, along with all of our interests.

Does that sound reasonable to everybody?

I think that's I'm hearing that that would be great.

Um thank you very much.

Thank you for all the amazing work you are doing, and um we will look forward to talking longer-term policy level uh when we come back with you whenever we can meet up.

So thank you very much.

Um thank y'all very much for giving us the opportunity to share this with you okay.

Um thank you.

Uh item number two is our LUMO whys and what's discussion.

Um, so council members, um, tonight we're I you know we're really trying to focus on reaching consensus around kind of the goals and priorities for the land use land use ordinance rewrite and the goals represent the why.

Um the priorities represent the what we're trying to accomplish under each, and um and I'm really hoping this is about setting the foundation for the work ahead of us.

Specifically, we're being asked to confirm the five-goal framework as a starting point.

So um I have no attachment to this list, it's all up for discussions.

Um I tried to just take all the previous work and put it into something, or you know, take from what would already existed.

But are there any major gaps, misalignments?

Um we're staying high level at this point, so not really wordsmithing, but we think we're gonna be missing, um, and then reviewing the priorities under each goal.

So again, looking for major gaps or misalignments, um then you know to ensure that um you know, revisiting the goals is just to ensure they still reflect kind of our intent, and at a later stage, then staff will work with us on the house.

So the how the specific LUMO changes are needed to achieve these goals, but I think if we can get through those first two chunks tonight, then I think we'll be really well positioned, and I'm what I'm hoping is then we can give some really good guidance to staff and they can go and work and not have to um be talking to us as much over the summer or kind of having um then we have a position or uh a way of moving forward as a board.

Um so my first question is um I think Melissa gave some really good feedback, and I tried to update the chart based on her which input piece of right.

So that's the question.

That's what I'm I'm getting there.

Okay, um, so there are two charts in front of you.

I would suggest we that we use the one that was updated that Melissa gave us that is bigger.

Um if anybody is not okay with that, then speak down.

Okay, so let's try using that one.

So let's try using that one.

And I think we can.

I think if we go from here, we'll be in good shape, but we'll hand it over to Taz and then you tell us when you're ready.

Or do you want us to just jump in or you guys going first?

Yeah, I think it would be helpful for us to um run through our our deck real quick.

Um I think what you'll end up seeing is that there's a lot of cross-pollination between uh the slide deck.

Attention library patron, the time is now 1050 p.m.

the library closes at 10 minutes at 8 o'clock.

Again, it is 1050, the library will be closing at 10 minutes.

Thank you.

I just want to say pass it off when it's time for someone else to talk.

Go ahead.

What when the library is close?

I'm like, Dad's go ahead.

Um I mean Mary Anderson, uh there's a lot of cross-collination between the documents, so team this up as uh a starting point, and then I think we can refine it or kind of hand a session off to you all um to take it from there.

Um so you know, our our our goal for tonight um I think Marin, you set it up really well.

Um our goal really comes directly from you all.

We heard the last time we uh talked about the Lumo rewrite, um, for many of you all that it would be really helpful that before we start talking about in or you know, restart conversations and jump back into details about the how and the what, you know, how are we meeting your interests, or it would be helpful to make sure there's alignment of what those interests are.

Um and so again, that's our goal for this evening to affirm that set of shared interests to guide uh your review of the draft LUM.

Um I do want to kind of reiterate this is about shared interests for reviewing LUMO, not necessarily about what staff we're gonna be writing or working on over the next couple of months, um, but it does make sure that everybody's on the same page for what the conversations uh are centered on over the next many months.

Um so these key interests um are things that should not surprise or any of you, right?

Because they're they're coming straight from you all.

Our our goal is to reflect back what we've heard um from you all, what we've heard from the complete community framework, what we've heard from our comp plan, um, that whole kind of ecosystem and universe of guidance that we've received.

Um I want to again just kind of put a binder in a point on how staff plan to use the conversation and discussion this evening going forward um over the next several months.

So um, you know, we're we're kind of here, right?

We're affirming these key interests.

Um what we intend to do is use this key interest conversation as kind of a framework for for the next major conversation around Lumo, which is most likely going to come in in June.

Um there's gonna be kind of two documents uh that we use to really move move the ball forward on the rewrite in June.

One is gonna be this alignment guide.

Um think about that as I think where you mentioned kind of that next set of details, starting to uh draw lines between the why and the how.

So think about key interests we all are doing today is setting up the scaffolding, setting up uh um the general framework for style of interest.

Next uh we'll talk about a little bit more detail how we're meeting those interests.

Um it's possible that some of those interests aren't going to be uh aren't gonna have kind of strong solid line size specific implementation areas.

Um and those are opportunities in root or opportunities to add the remote um if capacity in time allows uh through the legislative process before that, or maybe going forward, but um it's an opportunity to understand where there's alignment or potential again opportunities for more work.

Um the the next document that will come and again at the same time as this alignment guide during that June meeting.

It's gonna be a summary of the whole limo draft.

Um this is you think about again increasing levels of curiosity, increasing levels of detail when I want to be able to speak to.

Um this is think about again increasing levels of curiosity, increasing levels of detail when I want to be able to switch to this is gonna be that next document that really goes through uh in pretty exhaustive detail uh the whole thing probably gonna end up the LUMA's right end up being a seven or eight hundred page document.

We know that some of you all being interested in jumping into that, others may not.

Um for many of you all, this document should be kind of your stopping from as far as the level of detail to get into.

Um but we know that for many of you all it won't be, and so um there's some uh it won't be.

And so the the kind of other loaded details obviously the the full draft itself.

And so that'll be coming um unlikely for it to be like the the night of that June meeting, but that'll come shortly after once we've gotten back from our consultants that are able to give us kind of that final uh set of quality control and insurance before putting it out to the public.

For a totally administrative question.

Um I'm looking at the time, and I we have another item after this.

Um so um we can we can we can push through, we can um bump it where we could get it as a as some sort of written report.

Is that about right?

Yeah, that would be fine.

The only uh question I have for staff is I think uh I think you might need to be on the mic, sorry.

I'm sorry.

The only question I have for staff is do you want to is whether uh OWASA is expecting um some interaction with the council on this.

It asked for some feedback, but it's a fairly technical answer if we were just gonna provide that response as far as I'm understanding is there's something else or any reason why we would couldn't just do that by providing a written update to council as opposed to having an interaction here.

That should be fine.

And you need some sort of feedback from council, is that way or no?

I I don't think we do.

I don't think in I don't think there's a whole lot you can do uh to change the circumstances on the ground.

Yeah, I think the the asking the Owassa board has been to kind of uh offer some clarity around the the town council's vision for the southern area, uh but specifically in the context of these density assumptions that that we kind of originally started to work with.

Um one of the things we're going to share with you all this evening is that really the assumptions that we've started with cover a very wide range of potential development outcomes.

Um I would be hard for us to think of a of a change to council's kind of vision for the area that would bump us beyond what those density assumptions call for.

Um so there's really no decision that we're we would be asking for tonight.

It's basically just uh an assurance that the information that's already been provided, the assumptions have already made them analysis are reasonable and continue to be reasonable.

So I just clarify and then Elizabeth and then Amy.

Um for quick clarification, are we or would would we be skipping the OWASA discussion based on what we've just said, or because I have questions about that Alasa item, and if we're skipping it, I'd like to ask them now, but if we're not skipping it, I don't need to divert us.

Well, for let's I guess what I was asking is given the time and that that's the third item.

I was asking if people wanted one of the options we have is to power through and do three items.

The other is to if there's if there's a lot of questions, I think what I'm hoping is we could bring it back a different time if people are not feeling up to powering through three items.

I don't think there's a lot of things.

And if there's no time sensitivity, then what it would be fine to just bring it back to a different work session.

I'd like to go through it.

I don't have a whole lot of questions.

Um I'd just like to give the feel if like folks are like really questioning about it.

And if not, then let's give it definitely.

So you're suggesting power for the so we have a power-through advocate.

Anyone I mean if it's 10 o'clock when we finish LUMO.

Why don't we just set o'clock that would correct it?

Well, because I'm assuming there might be people here just who might not be.

I don't know, but I always just want to make sure that we're not going to be able to do that.

I mean, I can we can see.

So we can we do it just.

Do we need to decide that now?

Then can we say I don't think Venice should just have that now?

No, we're we're gonna do LUMO now, but um if people want to do the full thing, we can, or we can do a lightning round, or we can postpone it, but those we need to make a decision and then move on.

I'm okay with powering through.

Let's see if we power through now or to it later.

Well, if it's not time sensitive, then I would recommend that we that we bump it.

But I don't think there's a reason unless there's a time sensitive reason, then I think people should go home at a reasonable time.

Is my thought.

Staff included.

Is this in the interest of staff or is this in the interest of the case?

Good evening, everyone.

It is now eight o'clock in the library is closed.

We open again tomorrow at 10 a.m.

Have a good night.

Yeah, I I want to say that again because I do want this to be clear.

If it's for staff, then we can make that decision when we get to that one on the agenda.

If it is for other people, I don't think that that's appropriate that we do it based on that community because they could go and watch it on the screen.

So I think we stick with the schedule, and then when we get to that point, we decide if it's gone too long.

Council, can I have a thumbs up if you would like to power through?

Can I have a thumbs up if you would like to postpone it but still see it?

Okay.

Let's do that.

So we will postpone and figure out in time to free calendar so that you all can walk us through and make sure people have a chance to ask them.

Great.

Sorry, sorry for the interruptions.

Okay, renewed sense of energy that I'll be getting on more.

Um so yeah, I mentioned you know the the goal of this evening is to affirm these key interests that'll guide your your decision making going forward, and how we talk to you all about um the ordinance, how we package information and facilitate those conversations.

And so what we've synthesized is again five kind of broad buckets that shouldn't come as a surprise.

I think these these brought largely reflect uh what we've heard from you all, uh what we have integrated into the community strategy and various parts of the company.

Um so at a general level, we've got housing, economic development, sustainability, public realm, and then process and usability.

Um we'll go through each of these, have an opportunity to drive drill so a little bit deeper, uh, put finer points on each of these high-level interests.

Um as we're doing that, the the questions of what we all kind of think about and have the back of your mind is have we accurately reflected your interests and what's missing.

Uh we want to make sure that we've got kind of a full list as we move into the next stage.

Um just saying that this is again by design going to be high level.

Um we don't want to get um into specific implementation strategies or provisions of the ordinance or anything of that sort tonight.

Uh the goal again is to say it's as high level as we can.

So um as we're moving uh along the the first high-level interest is housing.

Um what does it mean if we define our point on prioritizing housing within um we know that there's been an interest in expanding housing supply?

Um there's a strong interest in promoting housing affordability and supporting housing diversity.

Um again, uh a little flavor of kind of the level of interest that we're hoping to see that for the evening.

So I'll go through each of these and then there will be uh ample time for the session primarily opportunities for you all to make sure that you're aligned on these interests.

Um we look at kind of the next major bucket but not development um high-level interest associated with that.

I think this would echo those uh earlier presentation, making sure that we are supporting small businesses.

Uh there are obviously ways in which an ordinance would do that.

Um not a wide range, there are opportunities there.

Um attracting new employers and then expanding uh the tax space and I've probably add there kind of not just expanding but also creating a robust and sustainable tax space.

Um becoming kind of uh a broad topic because we know that a lot of different factors um play into how sustainable the town is from an environmental perspective.

Some that really rise to the top are making sure that we're strengthening some water management standards as broadly as possible.

And then encouraging encouraging density, right?

We know that one of the biggest things that a local government that a town can do to support sustainability, not just in our backyards, but locally is just to grow densely where we are.

And then making sure that we're improving the organization and usability of Lum, making sure that people that want to do business, that want to build homes, are able to interact with this very consequential set of rules in a way that again doesn't in and of itself create a barrier to entry or a friction point where those don't necessarily need to exist.

And so zooming back out, again, the kind of five major topics are in front of you, and I think well reflected in the document that I believe has been passed around.

So the question on the table is with these five topics in front of you and the specific top subtopics we mentioned on the individual slides.

We accurately reflected the interests that you all have shared over the obviously lost time at this point that the many uh discussions you've had about the and is there anything there anything that's simple can we add to this to have a more complete picture of your interests.

Okay.

Yes, me, yeah.

So I thank you for this discussion.

I'm really happy that we're gonna get the chance to before we dive into that big rewrite before to make sure that we're real clear with each other and with our community and with staff about what we were actually trying to do here and what the yardstick is that we're going to be using to judge the scope of it.

I think this is a really really really important discussion.

I think you um sorry.

Um I know that there's been a lot of back and forth about with this document and different things.

I I think that we're all very close.

I think you have stayed very high level.

Um I think there's some things that are missing that that haven't that I would like to see captured in that.

Um I think the shorter the list we can make it the better.

So yeah, I don't know.

I for me it's more important the list of the individual items, and some of them could go in multiple places, different people were playing with it, and some putting things in one bucket or another.

I don't really care what bucket it ends up going into.

Um but I just want to make sure that that all the really important elements are there.

And I don't know if you want to suggest for getting us to that discussion quickly.

Um yeah, so I guess my I think that's a really good framing.

I don't think and has I would you know tell me if we're off base, but I don't know that it matters as much how we organize it.

I mean, I think it's helpful for the way we communicate it or the way you know perhaps just think about it, but as long I think as long as our goals, if we're like, yep, this is it, this is right, then I think that's okay.

But I mean, does that sound fine from the staff side of things?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean these five categories that become any number of things, you can mix and match, doesn't it doesn't matter to us as long as there's clear vision going forward.

So I guess my suggestion would be that we um there's this alternate goals list, which I think was trying to kind of frame a little bit more about around company community.

So I would recommend that we use the list on the right side.

Um and I think if we can start with the first page, the goals, and just affirm edit whatever you all feel is appropriate.

I have no particular attachment to these in front.

I really tried to just take all the materials from a few years of paper and put them into something that I thought represented.

I myself am not really sure, for example, about economic development, if that is one of the highest level goals for me, but I think it would just be helpful if we can agree on those and then go through and say, are these um are these kind of um priorities the ones that we feel good about?

Then I think we can go as quickly as we can.

Um I think the other thing that will help us go quickly is I think we're all naturally going to go into the why or the um the house, right?

That we're gonna get into well, we should be using this or that tool, or we think we should liberalize zoning, or we should do something, and I think if we can use our index cards to note those down, um, and and hopefully we'll have time we can share them with each other and get them to staff, and that can help inform the next phase.

But I think if we can just discipline ourselves to stay at this altitude, then we can move to the next phase, and it'll it'll flow out of this one.

Just to have this one form button.

I think he's feeling a little long other than that.

Yeah.

Melissa, were you first?

Oh, thank you.

Uh Louie.

Um, so when I was looking at this the first time, I was sort of thinking about this as being.

Yes, please, that would be great.

Yeah.

Um I was sort of thinking about it as the way we were organizing the LUMO.

And um of the things, and that I've been thinking a lot about this list and how we might change these key interests.

Um I'm not sure that that that's what you're talking about these five areas as being.

Um I'm not articulating this well.

The the thing about the key interests in the lumo is that they aren't individual silos, everything is integrated with everything else, and and there's going to be multiple ways we could slice it up.

Um, and no matter how we slice it up, um, it's still going to be crossing those silos.

They're all still going to be very integrated.

And so I think we're um I'm not and and part of the part of the reason I'm talking about this is because, for example, I didn't understand why we had business development in here, for example, when business development isn't a specific thing that is done by the LUMO.

There isn't a specific um kind of permitting process for for advocating it, building small business in in town.

And so um I'm a what I guess I'd like a little bit more of a context about how we're taking the key interests and and bringing the things that um the the mayor has gone to great um research and the effort to talk about the sort of things that will fit under alternative key interests.

Um and I don't know that any of us were gonna argue with with those kinds of things that are gonna end up under some of these things.

So I guess I'd like a little more context about before we start really discussing this in great depth of how you see these key interests, then translating into what LUMO is going to be and how we treat the LUMO and how we're um seeing all these things coming under the LUMO is more detail and how we are looking at integrating them across whatever silos or whatever key interests we happen to pick, if that makes any sense at all.

It makes total sense, and I understand the um like potential consternation because when you look at these topics um if you have ever looked at our current LUMO or any other main use organs from any other town, um, these aren't topics that you would likely see in an ordinance, and and these topics, none of the goals that are identified here or it's very unlikely that any of these goals would you know be articles or chapters within the new LUMO.

And these topics, none of the goals that are identified here, or it's very unlikely that any of these goals would you know be articles or chapters within the new book.

This is really just a way to talk about what you said is cross-cutting across a vast document.

Talk about it kind of divorced from the limitations of how that document has to be structured.

This is just a way to talk about again, high-level goals.

I think that that kind of uh alignment guide that I mentioned earlier, that document is really intended to be kind of this like Rosetta stone almost that links this like foreign language of ordinance writing to plain language of of goals and high-level interests.

So something like business development, for example.

Um we can definitely point to things, make those linkages between the high-level interest and stuff that you might find scattered throughout that 800 page document.

Um I would say uh don't when we're thinking about the goals, you don't have to worry about the the organization of the final product because we'll make those connections.

Um make those connections, but you don't have to worry about it during this discussion.

Okay.

Just to go to you what you were thinking.

You know, the address your point, Melissa, what I think about is like this is a reader guide.

We care about user friendliness, we care about the house and diversity, we care about these things, and they're in the document, but they're not called those things.

So there are things that support those things within the document.

And this is just a way for us to communicate these things that we care about, and our community cares about easily.

So like this will help us do that.

And like if we go to that last box at the very bottom, we'll but we've all seen that that kind of matrix.

I think that's gonna be really key.

Because that will explicitly do a crosswalk.

So, like you said, all these categories kind of blend together, but that less that I think a lot of people will go to that.

Like, I care about this in middle house that's to address like economic development and house and diversity attainability and supply.

So, like I think all those things will show up.

And yeah, I like the way that we're kind of thinking about this.

Great.

Harris.

Yeah, real quickly, I think Tash, you you touched on something that has really like I'm really struggling with just what it is that we're about to do.

Um, because my biggest concern is about audience and thinking in terms of this document that's coming our way, and it being a very technical document.

And so which audience are we communicating to?

And so there's so many layers here.

One from a policy standpoint, um, we have to have a document that we can also digest, but as a um outward facing to our community, a document that they can digest as well.

And so am I under and I'm speaking to my colleagues.

This process that we're going through right now is meant to be a tool that we can approach a very technical codify document with language that we understand that we can articulate and communicate to our community about.

Right.

And so it does more than that.

I mean, I think that it's a great way to use it, but I also think that it allows for us to then review the document with council shared goals, right?

So that when I when I hear like, oh, we'll all go in over the summer and review it, but if I feel like if we haven't coalesced around these things, then I'm reviewing for one of nine instead of oh, it it met our shared goals that we have like affirmed and said that's how we're all going to review it.

And that's what I that's actually I think a really for me a really important part is not just being able to communicate it, but also saying, even if I don't like one of these, I happen to like them, but like let's say there was one I disagreed with as one of nine.

It that's already been put to bed, right?

Like we're I'm not gonna read it and be like, but Taz, it it like allows for something, and and it's like, well, no, but this was the thing we agreed on.

This is how we're moving forward.

So making those decisions proactively, I feel is like makes us all prepared to go into the review phase and the tweaking phase with a board vision position, whatever.

And I think that's a really important.

Yeah, I think you're you're um saying what I'm saying.

You just hadn't said it yet.

You're right.

You were not here.

I mean, no, no, no, I mean I'm serious.

Yeah, I'm right.

Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm trying to say it is um the thing that we will be able to use to be able to approach this um as a collective around coalescing around um the goals that we've clearly stated, um building on the multiple conversations that we've had um, and that staff has taken and digested and presenting to us, and so it's a very tech just thinking like writing and audience of communication, the best way to go about doing that thing because it's a very highly technical, codified.

How do we take goals and use it and codify it, right?

Y'all will do that, but then you need to on the flip side reverse that, and that's what we're doing right now.

We're doing the reverse of the codification as it how it speaks to us as goals that we are apply.

That is very, very clear.

We understand that this code, the the why and the what, um, and then you all being able to come back and say this is how we get your why your what?

I don't know, right?

Yep.

You're just checking to make sure you're yeah, because I'm really trying to understand, because this is about communication and understanding, and I'm just getting some clarity on exactly what it is that we're doing.

No, that's great.

I figured about communicating to like the public.

Well, at some point we will because I think I thought that's part of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I was trying, no, I agree with you there.

I was just trying to make sure that we were yeah, that's good.

Um so um, unless y'all tell me otherwise, I think going through looking at the goals list, making sure we're okay with those, and then affirming I I really don't think that we're gonna find anything aberrant there, but I think that's the exercise before us.

Is everybody good?

And we're working on the right-hand column.

Well, Clark work on the right-hand column.

At this point, I think the best thing was a dung move model.

So if we don't have I'm just like if we if we find that like some of the things that we think should be in there aren't in there, I think we're devoted to like this being a limited document.

We're not gonna wait 20 years to revisit this again.

So like I think yeah, we'll have a chance to get some of these things back, or you know, address it in five years.

So I'm not I'm not saying that we don't really focus in on the details, but I'm also saying that like let's not let that stop.

No, no.

I mean, that's I think that's the one other thing that I would say that what I'm hoping is that if we can be really aligned and locked stuff, that then we don't have to have a bunch of work sessions or wait a long time to go into the legislative process or take a long time in the legislative process.

Like I'm hoping it just tees us up to say as long as it does the things that we want it to do, then we want to vote yes, right?

And then I think you're not wrong if there's something in there that's really misaligned that's just a huge lift to change, which I I don't know that I'm anticipating that, but I mean if that was the case, I wouldn't say that we wait till next year.

I mean, I think certainly we're gonna have to update it and keep it fresh anyway.

Yeah, so I think that's a great point.

Yeah, basically we've always the the roadmap to just the next omnibus test amendment or even yeah, at the most, right?

The longest you would have to wait, is just whenever we do the next omnibus, and very much wanna use an opportunity to create that culture of engineering movement.

Yeah, and then it won't be so broken, so then an omnibus wouldn't be as awful.

All right.

Oh, sorry, I was gonna say I was gonna go on.

I feel like you've brought a board game to the party, and I may not know all the instructions, but if we start playing, we'll figure it out.

We'll figure it out.

So let's start playing, you'll definitely lose.

Yeah, let's figure it out and then as we go here.

So if we are in um in the big picture list on page one, um our goals as of now are user friendliness, housing diversity, attainability and supply, um economic development and complete community land use, environment for a complete community, environment and sustainability, and there are whys under each of those.

Um does anybody have heartburn about those?

Does anybody have suggestions?

And I think we need to have TAS also weigh in on, you know, are these reasonable and anything?

I'm hoping that as we're talking, you can also help us think through if that's a reasonable edit.

Yeah, thank you for for inviting me to the conversation.

I will definitely you've got pivotal in the conversation.

Um I don't have great voter base.

I will uh we like that.

Whether invited or not, I I would have referred to the case.

Brutal honesty is what we have asked for, and that's what we expect.

Um yeah, I mean I think all five of these uh track very nice of the five we did um even our end, it's uh definitely on board would be fine.

Great.

Yeah, can I I I just think that um having complete community land use and then built environment for complete community is redundant.

Okay.

I would take it away from the economic development and let economic development stand alone.

Oh, okay.

So you want to just cross out and complete community land use for number three.

Right, because built environment for a complete community is basically that.

I think that's that.

GD, do you have another one?

I didn't get that.

What there's a second.

Um the the reason the reason that I I think that I I was advocating for environment and sustainability and not just sustainability because from the sustainability space.

Um there are a million definitions, and if you look at the at the most um universal, it's it's the whole triple bottom line economic environment and and um and equity.

And and if we're gonna take sustainability, some people look at it as a triple bottom line, some people look at it as only environment, and I think we need to be clear that on as we're talking about it here, we're talking about we're talking about um environmental sustainability as opposed to the economic, which is under economic development and equity, which I hope is everywhere.

Um but that's some of the things that you know we need to that needs to be clear, and I don't know how we put that in here, but equity needs to be a key um overview of some of some sort.

And maybe we need a like overarching overarching values as part of this key interest thing because um equity is so huge.

Yeah, I mean that that's an opportunity.

There could be some of these values that are so cross-cutting that we don't even need to explicitly mention them in each of these goals.

It's just it's imbued in all of it.

But but if we don't note that, then some people are gonna go, wait a second, why is equity not here?

Yeah, because equity is a part of our part of everything our um complete communities, and that's one of the things that I noted as well.

So we'd know.

So where would you put it?

Would you put it as like an overarching versus kind of like I think when we shove it in everywhere, it doesn't quite work as well.

I that's my thought.

I I would suggest that we do that with complete communities and equity.

Like those would be cross-cutting goals across all the other goals.

Okay.

Because they should show up in all these goals.

Uh-huh.

You could actually do the same thing with sustainability and then have environment be separate.

Yeah, I think arguing for those three concepts to be like overarching possible.

So that'd be fun.

Yeah.

I think that would be helpful also.

Like if we go back to what Paris is saying about this being a communication tool eventually.

Like having that up there is gonna call people being like, you didn't think about this.

We go to communicate it.

Exactly.

Okay.

Okay, so if I can make some suggestions just about words to accomplish that.

So number three, then that would take out complete community.

Yeah.

Um one's gonna shot.

Number four, take out the complete community there and change it to built environment and public realm.

Complete community.

So that would just be built environment and public realm.

Yeah, if we're taking community, complete community to that higher level.

Uh-huh.

Um I think that will then we would just have environment instead of environment as well.

And it's okay.

And Melissa, would you have environmental resilience or just environment?

Actually, environment and resilience would probably be excellent.

Okay.

So I know we uh we'll have multiple strides on this.

I think it'll it'll serve all of us well to then just be able to reconcile different versions.

And this is super helpful that you're doing the track changes up there so that we have kind of a thank you so that everybody can see what we're doing.

Yes.

So does anybody have any heartburn about this?

Are we happy?

Yes.

The complete community setting that's one thing that's the overarching everything.

Oh, that is overarching.

Integrated into everything.

Yeah, got it.

Okay.

Okay.

Um now that we feel happy about that list.

I think we can go down, and um, the first goal is user friendliness.

Um here are kind of based on previous materials, etc.

Um, and I think previous conversations, I tried to just put what I thought I heard, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right.

So y'all need to affirm those or edit them or whatever you want to do.

I can we hear from staff first if there's anything that gives that for sure.

Yeah, I was just really quick, Stan.

Um largely looks really good.

The the one thing I would see careful of is um language like the in the last bullet the uh the modifier of especially by smaller and first time builders.

Um being careful about um calling out specific people or entities um that's something we want to put back on for land use uh so can we say it in a different way that doesn't name kind of those groups, but maybe just talks about the thing they do that we want.

Yeah, I think it'd be just a lot of things.

I think that's the the first part of that, the first clause, I think in that statement.

Um, audiences question.

Sure.

This is purely a review tool for us internally, correct?

No, it would be communicating with the public also.

I think is this something we're publishing for the public somewhere?

I don't know that we're publishing it for the I mean I mean the intent of what we're creating here is an internal tool for us if we read that.

I think it could be used for engagement too.

Is it going to be used for engagement too?

I think it depends on what the final product looks like.

Um that the intent is that we're building something that is to explain the what we write to the public, or is it intent that we're building a tool for ourselves to have a an aligned understanding as we review that?

Yeah.

I mean, it just seems like I think we can we plan public engagements or um thinking about what the message is, what um the community needs to know in the same time.

That's really a good thought for these interests, and here's a good document.

So I think right now it is the like a tool for all of you to make sure you're aligned on what you're trying to achieve when it's time to communicate published, you can use it as you're speaking.

So it's if there's a document that needs to be published, I think we want to involve our processing and make sure it was really something that got the messages off of the way.

I just thought that might help us as we move forward with framing the other.

No, no, it's not done.

We we're not but I guess I would advocate though that I mean the way I've seen this work.

If we like let's say we were starting from scratch, which we most certainly are not.

Um I think ideally you would have this process happen um with in partnership with staff and council, and then that would drive engagement, and you'd be testing things and communicating to the public using this framing, right?

Kind of past that.

That's that's sort of why I brought it up.

Is that yeah, I I was under the assumption that that we are here to agree on the high level holes that we are going to use in our own heads as we review the document, not so much that we have to worry about like anyway.

I just thought it might ease us moving forward as we go through all these things, not stressing so much this is like a published thing that we're using to communicate exactly what we're doing, and more just like that this is a framing for our own brains.

The stakes are very low of what goes into this in other words.

Well, I mean, I guess we want to agree that we're all framing it and this like we're all reviewing it with the same framework, but not necessarily like the semantics are not making what is.

And I I will definitely be careful about um too much of a lawyer with some of this stuff.

Um but you are.

Yeah, but not your alert.

Because we're like, you know, one of us were reading as being like, oh, but we have to make sure this especially works for smaller and first-time builders, and it doesn't, then that's a different, then that's a misunderstanding that would be a misunderstanding in our brains.

Yeah.

So that is we're just I thought it might ease us flipboard if we if we were all on the same page if this is something we are using for as a tool for ourselves.

Yeah.

And I feel like the best way to think about it to borrow a planning curve is like there's like a there's gonna be a curb cut effect to this, right?

Um something that benefits you all.

Um there could be collateral benefit of how we can take the shell with sure.

Um that's definitely not bold.

Probably the primary goals.

Okay.

Melissa?

Yeah, I just wanted to say that I'm I tend to think of these as the um the things we hope to accomplish, right?

Um I I would I would say that um we probably shouldn't think of this as being a carved in stone complete comprehensive list, and and I don't I don't want people to think of that because these guys are gonna have to come up with some other stuff that fits under these goals.

Um but well, yeah, and also I mean the is going to be 800 pages, so there'll be stuff that has nothing to do with these things, which I think implicitly we're kind of saying like that's we know that needs to be there, but that's not council's concern.

Slide the three last.

Yeah, like I you know, we're not gonna be talking about that stuff.

So you might see that we're missing something here that really is an important high-level call, and that would be very helpful.

Um, is there a way to um I forget the word that I'm thinking of, but there's kind of it's not small and first-time builders, but it's kind of like that much.

Huh?

No, I think I think that you're being very.

I think they're maybe thinking about like remote relevant.

Sorry, incremental development.

Yes, incremental.

And again, I think there is we really want to focus on on the what, not the do.

Um, the this notion of in bill and build housing development.

Gets us there.

Yes, that's locally driven.

Then is everybody say that?

Oh, sorry, there the audience.

I sorry, I mean this is a completely serious suggestion.

I I think this is a really helpful narrative tool.

Um I I'm I'm curious if there are five members who feel like we we don't need to make any further edits and we can move on.

I think it's I need I did tend I need five minutes just to read through it again, just to make sure that this is five minutes one.

I think it's a great tool.

I just I don't I don't think we I don't think we're gonna find a lot of places where we're not even talking about.

I don't want to keep my answer like that.

Well, it's helpful it's helpful for me to have tasks.

Yeah, just to say don't say the who don't say that.

And I think we can also like discipline ourselves, right?

Me too, myself included um to to be fast, but I do think it's worth it to go through them and make sure people are okay that there's nothing really missing and that TAS is open with stuff.

I think that is a valuable use of our time.

Okay, that's the response with that.

Okay, so goal number two.

Um heartburn missing, misdated.

We're gonna do it.

Oh, I'm gonna go back.

Welcome.

Could we can we just put in like create a wide range of attainable housing choices?

Uh you mean housing diversity?

Um I was just struck by like expand permissions for this in the mindful way.

Well, yeah.

Because it's in the house, yeah.

Yes, I think it's in the head.

Done.

Hypocrite.

Consistency.

Guys, we should encourage him when he joins us back.

I'm just refocusing him on his thing.

That took 30 seconds for those.

Okay.

Okay.

Is there any is everybody?

One thing, uh I'm not saying I'm not okay with the word or the language, but I just be careful as we're talking about when we move on forward, and this was, I think, mentioned in in Dave's presentation as well.

What exactly we mean by public spaces?

Um public can mean a lot of different things.

Um the same way that we talk about affordable, we can talk about kind of like capital P public that you know owned by uh a government entity and uh legally accessible to members of the public.

Um there's also this notion of pops of privately owned public spaces.

Yeah.

Um a lot of what we traditionally think of as third places are probably pops, they're sort of privately owned, but they are they're welcoming, albeit not uh public in the So is it publicly accessible amenities?

I think it's just amenities.

Um they they may be publicly accessible, they may be uh accessible to certainly numbers.

I'm sorry?

I was just saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That sounds good.

Okay, all right.

Okay, strike that public.

Okay, so three?

Okay, number three.

Right.

Goal number three.

Economic development, and we took out the rest.

Right.

Oh, but yeah, this is the one I again.

I I think some of these are some of these not particularly well directed.

Yeah, um I think that there was um Mary Jan point out the the kind of public green space pops up again uh down at the bottom of uh of that section.

Um, equitable access part.

I can't hear you find you.

Sorry, it's all you have to set up page.

Is that last one that does expand?

Oh, oh, thank you.

So they have the areas and I think the point is it's allowed in every zone stuff.

Um but whether the but expanding it is a different department or a different function within the town.

It's not that we don't want it, but it's not a limo thing.

So some of these are um it could be support the expansion of, and that that may be getting um to support the expansion of it's it's again that that curse of planners is that we can permit and we can prohibit, but we can't really do much not that.

Yeah, but that's when we like go get David.

Other people back in here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

So like the first one, are we allowed to reduce regulatory barriers for small and local businesses personally?

Yeah, that's the who can't you can't do it for you can't say uh a locally owned business can go through a certain route.

Yeah, so I think it's just um you know you can you can be mindful of regulatory barriers.

Um there are probably some regulatory barriers that uh are more burdensome for smaller businesses relative to others, but I think this is uh an opportunity to again we just back out of the detail a little bit um and just say reduce regulatory barriers.

Um is there a way to um is there a way to you might say no and that's fine, but is there a way to kind of look at it from the size, like to try and get smaller, just smaller or smaller retail space?

I don't know what it I don't know what the words are, but it could we attend could we like try to get at that goal by looking at the size as opposed to the locally owned or that it's a small business?

I mean we talk smaller local.

Can we talk about affordable business?

No, absolutely.

That was the brittle honesty we were looking for tests.

Okay, so do we just need to get rid of this one, or is there like no is there no is there no saving it?

I think the first four have a shared problem.

Um really more about the work that economic development does.

And I think what has getting at is it's in your why.

You want to support a diverse thing local.

Um so it's really more about supporting the ability to provide multiple kinds of businesses and so forth.

But these specific incentives and initiatives are really in a different problem.

Okay.

But maybe it would be helpful for us to think about it in terms of like the the lummo is the stick, not the parent, right?

And like what we're trying to do is make it a shorter stick, uh less brutal stick, and in that way, but uh but we can't we can't make anything happen in a little bit.

So we have a little bit of carrot.

Okay, never mind.

Yeah, we need carries and takes so I and Mary Jane.

So are you happier with these with the way they are now?

Or would you prefer that we remove those four?

What's the first four?

Should we just take out the first four?

I think the shorter the better.

Yeah, I think so too.

Okay, so did you go?

I would just But did you hear us?

We're happy to take them out.

Okay.

I think you should go.

I think it's team.

And that's so what we do our economic development plan refresh.

We can just go right in there.

Um that's great because I think this one had a lot under it, and that will probably just help anyway with a focus.

Okay.

Um, so can we move on from goal number three?

Yes, I'm gonna do it.

Yes.

Let us go.

Wikidy split.

Oh, turn it like that.

We we are we are good at this.

All right, goal number four.

Um this one was built environment.

We changed the title, but that's okay.

We'll just or maybe we need to know what it is.

Uh we got rid of it.

It's built environmental.

And public realm.

Right.

So what can we cut?

That's my question.

I don't think that's the job.

TASE simpler.

Does any does anything give anybody Heartburn particularly TAS?

I think the second bullet is.

I was wondering about the public realm.

It's got small that that's very judgment oriented.

Well, yeah, that's hard to myth.

That's what that's probably.

That's not a smart goal.

So can you take that one out?

What's not smart?

Publish realms.

Well, having public realms that are attractive, comfortable, welcoming, destination connected, and economically vibrant, and I don't know how your well, I also don't know how your LUMO does that.

Yeah, I don't think so.

It has to take it necessarily guards against worst-case scenarios, but can't really shape the ideal scenario.

Yeah, yeah.

You can prevent bad, but you can't like force good.

Okay.

Um that need help?

Like the civic spaces.

That's really up to us to what we do with our public, with our counsel what we do with our property.

But is that using civic spaces?

I guess that's a then that's a question, right?

Like obviously civic spaces are up to us, but in terms of like creating zones or creating allowable uses, is that something that the LUMO has to support?

Or is that just like we just do it?

Well, we talked about it.

Well, the public are subject to your own regulations.

Um there's just making sure that we're not um shooting ourselves in the lip, right?

Um saying, for example, that uh a park isn't allowed in a residential district or something for like that.

So it again's like worst-case scenarios where we could really go awry in this one, but it's uh relatively easy win.

Um just make sure the limo doesn't keep it.

Yeah, and you know, I think if we talk about it in terms of are we supporting these spaces, part of that means um residential density near the spaces that ensures that they're actually going to be used to their highest and best use and they're not um you know built and invested in and then never utilized.

So they can be met in a lot of different ways.

So where are we landing with this?

Are we keeping it or is it going?

Yes, change support.

So sort of work everybody okay with keeping it?

Or do you is that is it like important enough that we want to keep it, or is it not like a critical, I don't think it's critical for me.

No, I I I like it.

I think we need to do something about civic spaces and those are the things that we own as well as what we could as well as what we can assess.

This is the look at the public realm as anything outside of the buildings then already in the world.

It just says it says I think it says built environment and public realm.

Yeah.

I think this is saying that we want it everywhere.

Yeah.

And then we want to allow ourselves to do it in places that we can.

So we want to make it like a thing.

Okay.

Um any other because we don't have another same experience.

Um is that mobility infrastructure goal?

It seems redundant with the last one.

Not the last one, but the building form is like I guess they're more?

I'm sorry, or I didn't hear what you said.

You guys want to say they're fine.

Yes, okay.

It's fine.

Yeah.

One one thing that I would just um point out.

Um, so this uh second last one on on the page, uh, integrated greenway networks.

Um relying on land use regulations as a way of providing public infrastructure is is fraught, right?

Um we can we can regulate that somebody build a greenway, but making it publicly accessible, integrated into broader network isn't something we can force somebody to do.

Um can't force you to make your your front yard publicly accessible, for example, right?

So it's the same principle.

Um so I would maybe move away from looking at the ordinance as a way to build out the network as a whole, um, or to tie it to the network.

I think there's there's other interests that have been talked about here, just like mobility infrastructure, you know, backing out a little bit but not tying it quite as closely to um.

So you're saying get rid of it, or you're saying just say support mobility infrastructure?

I think there's other bullet points here that that meet this the same interests without tying it um quite as tightly.

Well, it's that where would we put um those places where we would be setting aside by zoning possible greenways or greenway corridors or wildlife corridors?

If we're looking at doing that, where would that go?

I think that's actually more of a comprehensive plan um topic, and it's I was gonna ask uh bring this up within very last bullet, I think on the next stage of infrastructure coordinated with land use to support long-term community whenever you're thinking about what's the long-term plan, um, that's where you're looking at the land use plan and or comprehensive plan.

Um there isn't a zone that's greenways that's you know 30 feet wide that you apply on a piece of property.

So they're allowing greenways, um, you know, for what to see you ask people to build them.

But um those sort of those infrastructure pieces that have planning for infrastructure really doesn't go along with them.

This is just telling people what you can't keep on.

Okay, all right.

Got it.

So with that, I would recommend starting that or glass role and from the infrastructure for neighboring uses for long-term community because in order to build something, you're gonna have to have barcode electricity, access to a road, all those things and a plan for that really is a big direction.

Thanks.

Yeah, so what about then the reduced dependence on parking through context appropriate standards?

How is that yeah?

Um I'm not sure what that would point to.

Um I just kind of open it to uh if anybody I'm not sure who the authorship credit goes to in this one, but there could be an opportunity to explain that a little bit more.

I think, you know, we have for example, um I think it's parking standards, right?

What's the trying to accomplish that something?

I think you're trying to have this little parking lot.

Yeah, so just reduce parking.

I mean it could be just reduced parking maxims, right?

Um I think that it's not reduced the I think the parking maximums are the how, right?

Like we're trying to get people up, we're trying to encourage my question was not the I was not trying to get to the how.

I just wanted to know does that suit here or does it not?

Um appropriate for this is my question.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think it fits within that broader framework and a broader interest of um encouraging multimodal transportation, yeah, discouraging car dependence.

Right.

Um we've got to be really careful.

I think we've seen with with parking maximums.

Um we can sometimes uh place you know fine.

We can sometimes be the rock that a developer then finds themselves between a rock and a hard place where they're forced to meet our regulations and the expectations of investors, um customers, things that are so far beyond our control, and so we just be very careful about not creating that pinch point.

Um but it is it is a tool that we have at our disposal.

I just I don't know these which we would be able to drastically raft it down.

Um so should it be in here or should we see that as part of it?

I'm just trying to strike it through, and especially things that aren't that clear, I don't think we should have them in there.

And I mean this this could be at as I'm saying, you know, I I don't expect that there's gonna be an implementation tool that would be high very directly to this.

Um that doesn't mean that y'all can't be on the record is saying that it is still something that's important and that we want to move to words.

Um I think then it's just a matter of for y'all to decide whether you you want things like that in this document or whether we focus on it.

I would rather you tell us oh, this is for your blah blah blah plan.

But I I'm okay with that.

I mean, I as one of nine am OK with you saying you should put that in a different plan.

That's just not MUMO, and I'm totally fine with that.

And I don't want to lose it, but just tell us where which tell us where else to put it.

But then we see that.

I'm almost thinking thinking of the the text amendment changes that we made earlier, would fit underneath there.

Because they did the way we shape those text amendments did change parking standards.

So wouldn't that be that would fit right there?

Like that could be an example of that, or am I thinking about that wrong?

No, that's how I would hear it really.

Yeah, you certainly could say that.

Um we we got rid of you all got rid of town wide parking minimums, which is a huge set of towards that.

Um it takes out one of those those pressure points.

You know, there's a lot of other influences on parking, but you got yourself out of that um that conversation, which is a huge set.

So if that's the only thing we can do, I mean if that's the only thing we can do, then let's take it out.

If if it's really just that we've already done the thing that can be done in Lumo, then let's figure out where else we achieved that go for it.

Just so like it's still a goal.

It's still a goal, we still do something to be there, even though it's like a check.

Yeah, we did this.

Is it oh you just won't get credit for it?

Sometimes you write the to-do list after you've done the thing, and that that can feel good.

Okay.

I mean, I don't care, but it's not actually something we're gonna be looking at.

If we've already done it, why include it?

So the going back to like this communication aspect.

So this is not a communication document.

I'm not trying to go back to let litigate that.

But when we do use I could see this document as being like a guide for me when I go to talk to people like what's happened with the LUMO.

And like if that's in there and I could be reminded of that.

And also I think is it would be extra important because that text amendment was that was something like people wrote beds about.

So if we could go back and say like how this is connected, I think that would be worth our time.

Do you want to show heads for the minute?

Uh I just want to say also that um, I mean, when when we wrote regulations with EPA, sometimes you make room for technology to change.

And in some respects, I think that the leaving it in creates room for conditions to change and and for there to be opportunities to do something like that.

For example, when you look at something like the call desec development in Tampe, which is this really cool completely car-free development.

And if there was an opportunity created for something like that to happen here, and we have a bit, you know, we've got it as part of the goals of this.

That's where I see it having utility.

So council add support at the beginning?

Yep.

Support reduced.

Let's go.

I would almost say like that's a uh a rule of interpretation of the document that like support, encourage, promote, those are almost implicit um lead in C of these statements.

Council, are you okay with leaving it in?

Okay, cool.

Let's go.

Um anything else in here that needs to be discussed, or are we fine?

All right, let's go to five.

Yeah.

Rounding the corner.

Uh and this one was environment and resilience, is that right?

Okay.

I don't understand what strength means.

It's very vague.

How do you come codify like strength in like I don't yeah?

Well, I think it's based on what it was, right?

Like it's a new draft.

Actually, we're strongly protections, not structured in the RCDs.

Yeah.

I will say the first one does give me some pause because I don't know if there's consensus on the direction in which the R C D rules need to be kind of dialed up or down.

Um we generally have or we do have very strong RCD rules.

Um we have stronger or more expansive buffers than most communities.

Um I have not seen an encraft in the conversations um the consensus around which way those need to be.

I actually think the way that we talked about it, and you'll tell me if you if I'm wrong, but I thought we were kind of I thought what we were trying to get at was that we're not strengthening across the board.

It's that we're but I don't know if this is possible in LUMO, right?

But that there are places where we might want to do more of something, but there are also places where it's like that's a that's not an important one, like we can let that go, or that's like a place where there's this really great opportunity that this is hindering something that really is appropriate, and so I guess how do we get it back?

Part of where it becomes difficult to to codify a lot of that is that that becomes such a context-specific decision, um, and is based on such different levels of data um that are constantly evolving, are verifiable at different levels of assurance and you know um avoiding a garbage and garbage out of the system.

Um and so we just have to be mindful of of the data that can feed into that kind of decision making.

Okay.

It's data that's really helpful, and we're starting to see that in conversations around um conditional zoning applications where there's that ability to be a little bit more fluid.

Um modifying it is just a very broad territory.

Yeah, so um I think that strengthen is problematic when the group hasn't agreed on that.

I would just say protect the resource conservation districts and street buffers, and that leaves it open to what what level I will note that when we did have a storm or person come in and look at our room and their report did have extra protections, and it's very technical.

I won't get into it, but something about if you if you take RCD away at one elevation, you need to put it back somewhere else at that same elevation.

So it has been recommended to us that there's things we could do.

So but I think for the purposes of this document, I think if we we already protect them, I don't think that's making a value judgment of more protection, less protection.

It's a value, yeah.

Yeah, and I was gonna say that like with um the whole economic thing, like putting it there, like where are there opportunities to uh which document does that need to be explicitly stated, not to negate anything that you just said, um, but also when it comes to these types of things, like oh you're saying like which plan, like maybe this like maybe it's tied to the natural areas.

The natural areas or something like that, yeah.

Okay.

So do we need to in the execution and south?

What you're asking about will get captured when in this the review procedures.

So if something is a conditional zoning, it's gonna pass out view.

It's then only that natural areas have exactly decisions.

I think that's the process we know.

Yeah.

Oh, so then this will contain process though, right?

So maybe that in the process section, yeah, it talks about this.

I think a house member wise um has the interest and then it would execute to the process.

That's what we're I just wondered um when the when the um like nutrient rules come in and any JLO possible alternate ways of meeting those rules.

Um is there anything that we would need to do specifically or especially in in the LUMO to account for those?

Yeah, most definitely.

I mean um our uh is where you find the previous iterations of those rules.

Um and so there are definitely going to be implications for one of them once we get the new rules from the state.

Okay, try to see what the scroll up.

I was I was just wondering about the first bullet.

Yeah, the first bullet, sorry.

Okay, yeah.

Was it a respect?

Oh, okay.

Um and and just if we if we when we write up the the draft of the limo and um and we put in whatever it is about the Jordan Lake, then when the Jordan Lake changes, will we have to make changes to that, or can we say include it by reference so that when it changes there, we won't have to change it in the LUMA?

I so I don't know specifically about the Jordan, the the new Jordan Link rules.

Um the way a lot my understanding of the way a lot of these rules that are kind of delegated down to the state work um is that the state does expect that the rule gets codified at a local level and typically that ends up being in whatever jurisdictions equivalent of their leg use ordinance.

Okay, thank you.

So are you saying you can just reference that rule that may change or you have to actually pass like implementing regulations at how low level?

Got it.

Okay.

So I so the second bullet there for low impact development isn't that's something we can require, like we require stormwater regulations, for instance.

Is do you think it's not something we can do or something that it's not wise to do?

Um I think part of the consternation for me is is actually the second part of the green infrastructure in site design.

Um we we typically find that um when we're looking at things like stormwater management, um there are ways we can set general perform performance standards, but being very restrictive in the way in which developers meet those can be problematic.

Um right now of kind of uh speaking to respecting the RCD, um, thinking about you know saying, for example, if you're gonna put your storm water control measures in the RCD buffers, um some amount of that needs to be green stormwater infrastructure, uh you know, tying those two together so it's not a prescriptive standard for the development as a whole, um but kind of linking some some common interests there.

So can so if we took out the green infrastructure and site design more generally, can we require low impact development?

And is that something that would give you harbor?

I think then it just becomes uh low impact development is uh it's getting close to a term of art um that there are you know guides for low impact development that is prescribe certain types of development, um which may go beyond what we're trying to accomplish here.

But um if we're we're really just using um yeah, so getting away from specific something that could be construed as a specific standard, um I think would be ideal here.

So um I think a lot of these the interests that are captured um in lower impact development, not as a term of art or you know, capital letters um that is I think achieved for a lot of the other interests that are listed here.

Okay, um so I think either keeping it very soft as a as a promote or deleting it, I think would be my suggestion.

Take it out.

How glad it was?

I feel your nuance meter creeping in here.

Like if you give us a recommendation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Take forward.

All right, let's get it back.

Take it out.

Okay.

I'm very sorry to lose that though.

I think that's an important.

It just means that we understand we can't regulate that, right?

Well require.

We can't.

I mean, I think we have other functions.

If we can't use the term apart.

Is there a trouble with the energy?

Uh what my land use nerd just texted me and was like, yeah, yeah, I can't do that.

Yeah, the ones I've highlighted here was going to be something I've I've suggested we remove.

Um it's not legal.

Yeah.

Building performance is not a problem use thing.

There's opportunities for incentives around energy efficiency.

Um it's like written in the 16D, but um requiring it, I think it's better to better keep software on that.

Okay, you scroll that incentivize in here?

It's invalid to consider it's part of things.

But it's but then maybe that's in our sustainability plan, not at our demo.

Right.

Is that right?

Distributed to our own price.

Yeah, cycles.

What's that she said?

Oh well.

Um the theatrical.

Yeah, you're on a move to site that from the record.

Um, I mean, I I think it incentives around energy efficiency are something that we are we're thinking about.

We hope to be able to include.

Um, but again, it's one of those things, and we talked about this in different context.

It takes a lot to move the needle, sometimes even just a little bit.

Um, and when we it is something that we're gonna be working towards, we're gonna try to include, um, which is I I can't make any insurances on that front, but I I wouldn't say it's like off the table as long as what we're talking about are incentives and we can say can we say incentivize and then obviously if we come back later and you're like it's just it's a bad idea, then you know we're not gonna ask the race.

Yeah.

We try it and we get but at least then we kind of track it and know that it was a goal, and if we can't reach it, then we're gonna address it.

Can we soften the stormwater one above it?

I mean, I agree with that spirit, but that just seems considering the conversations we've had a high bar the idea that we're gonna mitigate flooding, modern it modernizing our stormwater requirement.

I don't know how other people.

We're saying we're trying to that's like a piece of it, but I mean to address or is that even strong?

I think that's stronger.

Yeah, I would either support or incentivize stormwater mitigation.

Well, no, they gotta do that.

Um still slow.

I would say I mean I think this one is probably pretty good as it is.

Um we we are we talked to you all about this before.

Um we you've all made some really significant moves with the hundred year storm, plan to go further with it with some reasonable nuance.

Um, but yeah, I think this is good as okay.

So I am curious all the way down the other suggestions.

Uh given what you shared with us, does that still appropriate the increased public mind spaces?

Yeah, I would I would not include it.

Okay.

So that's the increase bullet comes out.

Yeah.

The whole thing, I think.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

And then what about the last one?

Can I just that one first?

Nope.

So these ones that are um that are deleted, can we farm those out to other types of like can we just map them elsewhere so that's help us, you know, because some of us are getting a lot of different things.

Well, it's not I don't want to get into the why of it.

I'm just saying, like if those if those aren't appropriate but we still want them.

I mean, no, yeah, we're where.

Could you tell us later?

Don't tell us.

Yeah.

Tell us later where those will be.

So if we can just like create that list of we deleted it, but it needs a home.

Yeah.

Then that would be very helpful, I think.

Um that way we're not driving you crazy, but we think there's very I don't know if there's anything that was deleted here that is just inappropriate for a governing board meeting.

Yes, not to be condemned to be advanced.

But to be pedantic.

Could we get rid of the address in front of climate risk?

So they would so modernize stormwater requirements to mitigate flood and climate risk and improve equity.

So that mitigate would be modifying flood and climate risk.

Yeah, say that again modernizing.

So we just get rid of the address.

Done.

Yeah.

Yep.

And the actual does you want to be really pedantic and there.

He did.

He did.

We all look at look at you two.

To mitigate flood and yep, okay.

Okay.

And the last bullet encouraged climate aligned operations.

It's gone.

Oh, it's gone.

We gotta, well, trap on it finding a new home.

It's being re-polked as well to the fall.

No, it's not a part.

Yeah.

Okay.

So look at us.

I know.

Look at us go.

So is everybody now okay with this is five.

The whole now we're at five.

And I think we've cut out a lot, which is a good thing.

Um, if you come up, if you review it and you find other things, then you'll tell us.

Like, no, no, no.

And I guess to me that then how do you want to deal with this next step of like taking these and kind of putting them into that crossbox type, you know, thing on the bottom, like on the bottom page.

I gave a very like clumsy example because I don't know what the examples should be of options, but how do you like what's a way that we can integrate this into our process?

Yeah.

So this is again that that next document, the alignment document.

And I think what is what we very much wanted to get out of this conversation is what is the framework for that next document, and we have absolutely achieved that.

Um I think you know we'll need to think about there's this example on screen.

I think there's a certain level of detail that that may not be feasible.

Um, like you know uh providing options or alternatives for for each of our kind of policy directions.

Well, some of them may not have.

Yeah, no, it's not meant to be.

Yeah, yeah.

There I think there could be really key one that I think this example is actually something that we have identified in recent conversations where there is a little bit of a warp in the road still.

Um but for the most part, I think we would want to really limit uh instances where we are still asking for that sort of decision at this point.

Um but generally speaking, I think what we have really accomplished this evening is there's a clear framework for what these high-level interests are.

Um it gives us a really clear set of instructions in how we start talking about the new LUMO.

Um and at this point it's just about starting to draw those those solid lines, some dotted lines, and then some like to do.

How are we gonna determine topic areas?

Um I didn't hear.

So for this, how are we gonna be determined topic areas?

Are those gonna be topic areas that we haven't?

Well, I think there are these bullet points, but they're not going to be able to do that.

We can't do all the bullets.

No, no, because some of them are not, some of them aren't good for this.

Like some of them there's only one way to do it, or some of you know, it doesn't, but this is if there's any in that list that have more than one way to accomplish it, and there's kind of a like said like a fork in the road, then we go through this process, right?

And I think that then also the alignment memo just shows that it's been addressed and this is how it's been done, right?

I mean that's what I'm thinking.

Does anybody have concerns about this idea next step?

Yeah, yeah.

I had to write it down, so bear with me now.

And I want to read what I wrote.

Okay, so um go back to the minute.

Wow.

So like my gut level concern that I'm really like struggling to like articulate as I like look at like this matrix.

Is like trying to produce like outcomes rather than rather than creating the environment for achieving our goals and potentially undermining the process.

So first I want to focus fundamentally on the difference between a prescriptive predictive regulatory model and a permitting and enabling one.

Now I know we all can agree that you know land use can't guarantee specific outcomes.

So please hear me out.

I'm not saying that I believe that we're trying to suggest that anyone is trying to say that we're predicting outcomes.

That's not what I'm saying.

We all know that a lot of this like really depends on market forces, developer decisions, and external factors, a lot of this does.

But trying to force these predictions can lead to just bad code, I think.

They can be overly rigid, um requiring complex impact assessments, um, and create barriers that kill projects, which is why we need a lumo rewrite in the first place.

So my instinct is to focus on the inputs, the the rules, the provisions, the standards, and then assess um proximity to our goals.

Um this to me sounds like more real sound policy thinking.

Um so I'm perfectly fine with the what and the whys as these high level um goal statements.

What gives me pause are the proposed um did we meet relevant goals and how do we measure success?

Um that's where the outcome prediction trap lies for me.

Um with this kind of pseudo-predictive metrics.

So I would like to offer and suggest a reframing of the matrix success column to focus on implementation monitoring and qualitative assessment as opposed to like outcome guarantees.

So I think staff has um given us kind of an answer of the we've provided the the whys and the what's and waiting for that alignment document to come back that threads that needle of the how is what I feel comfortable with, and I'll shut up.

So this is a retrospective matrix, right?

This matrix isn't gonna determine how anything's written.

This is like a way for us to go back and see how things are written.

Yeah, 100%.

So what we have like this exercise this evening, um, as we mentioned, the start of the discussion was not about creating new direction for what gets written in the ordinance.

Um opportunity for you all to be aligned on how you talk about it, um, what you kind of focus your own attention on.

Um but it's not directional, what is included in the ordinance.

Um I would certainly agree with um Council about how we measure uh outcomes is uh it's really hard, I think, it would this sort of work to proactively kind of define measures of success.

Um I think like we saw with the recent omnibus assignments.

We we are always monitoring, we always have our ear to the ground as staff, as elected.

Um it's kind of this beautiful mixed methods approach where we're we're looking at data, we're talking to folks, um and that's ongoing.

Um I I would agree that that doesn't necessarily need to be.

I don't think I would intend uh for that next document we provide for to get into like measures of success.

I think that that can come.

I think eventually though we do have to measure success.

I think we do too, and I don't know that this is saying that we can't use you know, it doesn't mean that the LUMO that we're saying that sorry, it doesn't mean that we're saying the LUMO is gonna by itself do the things we want, right?

So I think first of all, I think it's reasonable to say, well, it's not going to guarantee you anything, so you know, but these would be signs that it's working.

I mean, I I don't know that it has to always be a quantitative measure, but I think saying like when is what's a sign that it's working as designed versus we should come back for a text amendment.

I think that's more like success doesn't have to be that it did the that it did the exact thing that we're hoping that it promotes.

Well, I I I like what Paris said.

I think it's maybe a measure of both.

So like we have these qualitative observations going on, but eventually we want to get to like some type of measure of success.

So like I can see like having space for both of those things in that last box.

And maybe for the first two or three years, we'll just have these qualitative observations.

Yes.

But eventually it's some type of measurement of success.

Well, but then I think we're measuring more than the Luma, right?

We're measuring all of our plans and how they're interacting with Luma.

So, well, if that's what we were thinking about doing, we may want to.

Well, no, I'm just saying if we're like doing a a real measure, then you then you're measuring more than the that goes back to like you know, Paris' point that like maybe this is for another document.

I would like to say the thing.

I mean I don't know if we have to decide this tonight, and I would love for you to put that in writing so that I can remember what you said and then know what you're honestly to fully understand what you're talking about versus this.

So I think my question is does this part of the process have to be determined tonight?

And if so, fine.

If not, I would love to get what you just said in writing so I know what you're talking about so that I can understand it, and then we can have a conversation about it.

Does that work?

That does for me, Monique.

And uh I also think that um I agree completely.

Um but I think that this is something that we all agree we need to figure out how we're meeting goals.

And I think it it that these guys have gotten that message, and that I think we should just let them go and do the next phase and and start cogitating about how we're gonna do this and let them bring something to us.

That's that's where I landed.

Yeah, that's things that was much.

What I can offer is um we've had a lot of talk about what the next phases are.

So you'll get that alignment document, you're going to get the drop LUMO, you're going to get supporting information from the staff about how the vision connects to the technical um document, 700 pages of the light board meeting.

Um then it's yours.

Um you'll have a schedule for adoption of the LUMO.

If it is checking the boxes, that's great.

If there's something you want to talk about more or any or revisit when you put a schedule being moved on.

Um then it is a living document.

I think Council Member Burger said this earlier.

And part of the ongoing monitoring in the staff and the community and computer perspective is going to be, are we getting what we want?

And that's one way that you'll know, you know, if you start to see development that looks like what you want, you know it's working.

If there's something you want to do, you can.

Um, it'd probably be hard to do line by line from these goals because this is your guiding vision.

Yeah.

Um, but you may over time identify a few things that you're really looking for that you want measure.

Um so that I think there will be some time to figure out what the right metrics are for is this document successful.

And it doesn't have to be line by line here.

On the document right on top of that saying that the moment you adopt a new ordinance is the moment you start creating the list for amendments that we learn or implement what isn't working right at what isn't working as intended, what is what is just a technical correction.

So you're gonna have, I mean, I would expect this to run a technical correction package as an omnibus package once or twice a year at least for a little while.

Yes.

And the term of evaluation is a very relevant piece.

I mean, it it would be a waste of our time to try to tell you with six months, hey, look, it's working.

Well, is it?

Or did you just have one successful project and everybody's all thrilled about it?

You probably need to put some mileage on the tires before you assess whether they're handling it correctly.

And I just wanted to say, like, I share that I'm not here and I share the interest of what I'm hearing from you all about when this draft comes to us, being able to have staff like thread that needle for us, that speaks back to the what's the wise thing we've identified.

Um for the reasons that I've stated.

I think so.

Oh, Camille.

Can I just say real quick that if we got one project that everybody was thrilled about, I would count that as a success.

Yeah.

Camille, I'm wondering.

I just I not just say thank you, Jess, for doing the research.

So that we didn't all have to go fast go try to remember what others said, what some of us said, some of you are new.

Some of us are new.

Um, so that was Herculean.

Thank you.

I'm sure Genie helped this also, I think.

Oh, I know she did the rear.

I'm talking about the research.

No, the research.

Steph, thank you for working with us on this.

It feels really good for us to have gone through this process together.

So thank you.

All right, so Asamba.

Yes, real quick.

You got jokes, T.

Thank you all for working that through.

Thank you especially to staff for helping us kind of reality check it.

And um, and I'm very excited that we have something to now coalesce around.

So thank you very much.

It's very exciting.

Um it is 9 30.

We are not doing Osama tonight, despite uh Camille's desire.

And thank you, everybody.

Uh meeting and dirt.

Thank you.