Good evening, everyone.

Welcome to the April 15th meeting of the Chapel Hill Town Council.

We are very glad to have you join us.

Um, this evening we have four items on our agenda for discussion or action.

Um, the first is to consider affordable housing program allocations.

Uh, the second, which also relates to affordable housing, is a public hearing for our 2026-2027 community development block grant annual plan.

And that will be followed by an update on climate action implementation.

And then our last item will be a public hearing for an incentive agreement with Chapel Hill Ventures LLC.

Um Council will also be making an appointment, or sorry, appointments to the Orange Water and Sewer Authority Board, and I'll announce those names at the end of the meeting.

Um to begin this evening, we would like to honor and celebrate the life of Miss Maybell McLendon by presenting a special resolution in her memory.

Uh Councilmember Miller Fushi will read the resolution on our behalf, and at this time we invite family and friends and her entire fan club to join uh Councilmember Miller Fushi at the podium for this tribute.

I saw her.

And Miss May was a pillar of that organization in many organizations throughout our community.

So this is a great honor.

Whereas on March 17th, 2026, our community lost the incomparable and beloved Maybell McClindon.

Whereas Miss May, as many called her, was a pillar of the community, who dedicated her life to public service, social justice ministry, and spreading the divine love of God.

And whereas Miss May was committed to a lifetime of service, sharing her time and talents as a board member, and a faithful supporter of the Interfaith Council, poll worker for the Board of Elections, and a member of many local organizations and missions, including the local chapter of the NAACP, Public School Foundation, Habitat for Humanity of Orange County, and more.

And whereas Miss May was extremely proud of her daughter, Miss Anisa McClendon's organization, the E3 Camp, which provides middle school students of color with activities, field trips and skills and the arts and STEM fields.

Whereas in March, she received the Duke Energy Citizenship and Service Award from the Chapel Hill Carrborough Chamber of Commerce in recognition of the positive impact she has had on people's lives.

And whereas on Tuesday, March 24th, hundreds of friends and family gathered at the United Church of Chapel Hill to celebrate the life of Miss Maybell McClendon.

And whereas the church, which was standing room only, was full of folks across the immense landscape that Miss May touched who gathered together for beautiful homecoming service for one of the most prolific residents of Chapel Hill and Carlborough.

Now, therefore, we the Chapel Hill Mayor and Town Council do hereby acknowledge and celebrate the immense contributions of Miss Maybell McClinden to our community and know she is peacefully at rest this 15th day of April 2026.

Thank you.

Council members, would you like to do a group picture?

I'm a back row girl pretty much every time how I live.

Yes.

Should we put this in?

Oh, good idea.

Well, you know.

Anybody here to receive this?

Hold on.

Council members, do I have a motion to adopt resolution R1?

Second.

Moved by Councilmember McCullough, seconded by uh Mayor Pro Tem Barry.

I almost, yep, I'm there with you.

Um, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Thank you for joining us.

And Chapel Hill is a better place because of Miss Mae McClendon and her legacy will live on in Chapel Hill.

Um next, we have three proclamations to announce.

Um, the first is Poetry Month, and this evening, we are pleased to be joined by Chapel Hill's poet laureate, the great Dr.

Donovan Livingston, Dr.

Livingston, will you please join me up front?

Good evening, family.

How are y'all doing tonight?

Good.

I literally came to rock the mic.

Um grateful to be here as usual.

Um, I'm excited to take a step back.

My bad, I'll just do it.

You guys, you're excited, I love it.

Um, I'm gonna say something real quick, and then it's gonna be your turn.

All right.

So, welcome, Dr.

Livingston.

We are so thrilled to have you join us.

Um April is National Poetry Month.

It's a time to celebrate the power of words to connect us, um, tell our stories and inspire change.

Poetry helps us understand one another, uplift unheard voices, and reflect our shared humanity.

Here in Chapel Hill, it enriches our community, promotes equity, and brings people together.

To help us continue building a community rooted in creativity, compassion, and connection, the Chapel Hill Mayor and Town Council proudly proclaim.

April 2026 as natural national as National Poetry Month, and we encourage all residents to celebrate celebrate poetry and honor the voices that shape our stories.

And with that, we invite Dr.

Livingston, who has his words about him always better than I do, but um he's gonna share some words with us, and then council will join up front for a photo.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh uh, good evening, everyone.

Um, as the mayor mentioned, it is National Poetry Month, and I'm really excited.

I have two really important calls to action for us to consider um as a body, right?

Um, this is um uh a beautiful experience.

The poet laureate role is um stewarded by the great folks at Chapel Hill Public Library as well as uh community arts and culture, and it's really important that this continues to be um uh uh an endeavor that's supported financially and um culturally, and so I really hope that we continue to carve out spaces for poetry to exist and bring people together across our community, and because it is poetry month, um, I do charge everyone under the sound of my voice to do three things for me this month.

Read a poem, write a poem, and share a poem.

Can you say it with me one time?

Read a poem.

Write a poem, and share a poem.

Now it could be a limerick, a haiku, a two, a couplet, whatever moves your spirit, whatever makes you stir.

But um, I think it's really important to understand how the written and spoken word both allow us to create community together.

Um, and I'm really grateful to have been in this role to carry on the legacy of CJ Suit and Cortland Gilliam who preceded me in this role, um, and to continue to carve out spaces across the community for poetry to exist and create community um where it is always existed.

So thank you.

And oh, I do have a piece.

Is that okay?

Is that okay?

Who's waiting for that part?

Yeah, so uh in my role, I do a lot, whether it's hosting youth uh uh writing workshops or community writing workshops, um, performing at festivals, could writing commission pieces, I even teach uh songwriting class at Orange County Correctional uh once a month and have been doing that for the past couple of semesters.

Um one of the things that I was charged to do most recently was to write a piece at the installation of the Faces in the Forest exhibit that was created by local artist uh Levi Yukubu, who's a ceramicist and uh uh pottery expert and woodworking expert.

He created faces um literally on the trees uh that surround Chapel Hill public, Chapel Hill's public library.

And so this poem is entitled Familiar Faces, um, as an attempt to think critically about what the trees might say about us as we navigate life.

So I saw you, wayward wanderer, wafting in winds, unrelenting wrath, believe it limbs succumb to the whim of forces unseen.

May the breeze be gentle.

A forest unclaimed does make a sound, howling at moons, hoping you'd hear us, see us, be us, beaming with pride at seedlings tumbling atop the underbrush.

You've come to us, awestruck, twisted trunk, a nervous churning in torsoul's mourning souls lost in a woodland of your own design.

Taking, breaking, aching for what you destroy, making pine boxes a forgotten simpler days when sun's rays slip through our fingers.

Remember what it was like to hold the light with chlorophyll-coated palms.

We sang psalms, hoping you never let go of your glow, those pine needles we brandish landed a mighty blow, punching holes in fallen skies, hoping you'd photosynthesize divinity, summoning energy, required to press on to keep going, growing, sowing golden moments into the fabric of time.

We console the unwoven, the loneliest spirits severed from root, untethered from sediment, bloom where you are planted.

These branches are hands dancing with clouds.

You too were made to promenade across creation, embarking on a journey, a whirling four billion year backspin with this yellow dwarf star.

We see you, wanderer, far from home, combing through pine cones, roaming listless, missing the forest in the trees.

It is human nature, after all, to recognize beauty when it is too late, to watch a leaf suffocate and marvel at a colorful death.

May your breath, each one, that one, the last one, be a spectacle of peace, an autumnal feast for the senses.

Remember you are not.

Rather, you are surrounded by the red bud and oak, the dog wood, black gum and holly, the mighty pine and poplar.

We are one.

Proof that the clay that shaped you also nurtured our roots.

Thank you.

Well, it could have been a little less excess if you were going to ask me to do my own.

All right.

Come on, Council.

Well, maybe I'm going to be in the front of the room.

I know, I'm so aware.

Wonderful.

I know.

It's a little science.

I have somebody.

All right.

Um, Dr.

Livingston, thank you again so much for being here with us tonight.

Um, and for sharing your words and your voice with our community.

You do amazing things all the time, not just when you're here with us.

So your poetry helps us slow down, listen a little closer and see one another a little more clearly.

So thank you.

Um that brings us to volunteer appreciation week.

Um, for this announcement, we'd like to invite any and all community volunteers in the audience to join Councilmember McCullough up front.

We don't have some anymore.

Oh, I know, I know.

Don't be shy.

Everybody to volunteer.

Come on.

That's all volunteers.

All of them.

For anything.

I see some others in the audience who would be eligible.

Good evening.

I'm glad everybody's here.

Tonight in celebration and recognition of the invaluable contributions of volunteers in our community.

The Chapel Hill Town Council is pleased to proclaim the week of April 27th through May 4th, 2026 as Chapel Hill Volunteer Week.

Volunteers are vital to our future as a caring and productive community.

Through their service, they inspire positive change, strengthen connections, and demonstrate the power of civic engagement.

During this week, we honor and thank the dedicated residents of our community who give so freely of their valuable time, energy, and abilities.

And we encourage everyone to join us in recognizing and supporting those who volunteer and serve.

And we also encourage everyone to join in volunteering.

So thank you all.

I'm sure we go into this.

Oh, that's fine.

Yeah, it's not necessarily very necessary.

It never gives me a chance.

A waiver.

Thank you so much to all of you who give your time and your talent and your energy to make Chapel Hill and the world a better place.

You make us stronger, and we are grateful for all you do.

Um, third and final announcement is for Earth Day.

Um, Councilmember Amy Ryan is all set to make the announcement, and we'd like to invite Chapel Hill sustainability manager John Richardson to join her up in the front.

Expecting a slump.

Tonight we are proud to recognize April 22nd, 2026 as Earth Day, and reaffirm our community's commitment to environmental stewardship, sustainability, and resilience.

This year's national theme, Our Power, Our Planet, reminds us that each of us, individually and collectively, has a role in protecting the natural systems that sustain life.

The proclamation emphasizes the urgency of safeguarding biodiversity, addressing the climate crisis, and ensuring a healthy, thriving environment for future generations.

As we observe Earth Day, we invite everyone in our community to honor this shared responsibility and to take meaningful actions that support a more sustainable and resilient future.

Yeah.

Thank you, John, to you and your team for all you do all year round.

And of course, for members of our audience, there are many ways to make a difference this month, and many great opportunities like Lights Out Chapel Hill, which aims to protect migrating birds at night, and there's also volunteer work days at Pritchard Park this Saturday.

So please join in.

Okay.

That brings us to announcements.

I have three quick things to share.

First is a huge shout out to our staff and our many partners and volunteers on their hard work to bring the Savannah Bananas to Chapel Hill and to make the weekend a tremendously positive experience for everyone.

We heard that we were friendly and helpful, and we were a great place to play banana ball.

Which is something like I have never seen before.

Second, tomorrow morning, council will be meeting with our state legislative delegation and several statewide partners for our 2026 legislative breakfast.

This is an opportunity for us to talk about the General Assembly's new session and to advocate for town interests.

And third, council's next meeting will take place on April 29th here in town hall starting at six.

Council members, anything else to share.

Okay.

So next up we invite members of the public to comment on items not on the printed agenda.

For members of the public in attendance who are wishing to speak, which which there are none, so I'm going to stop my instructions on that.

Okay.

Um that brings our us to our consent agenda.

Um council members, there has been a request to pull item number seven, um, campaign contribution limitations, and item 10, the resolution of intent to consider changes to council size and the mayor's term.

Um due to timing, item number 10 will be moved to the first discussion item on tonight's agenda, and item number seven will be scheduled for council discussion at a later meeting.

So do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended?

We're moving items number seven and ten.

So moved.

Second.

Move by Councilmember Ryan, seconded by Mayor Pro Temberry.

Um, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Um, do I have a motion to take up item number 10, which is a real resolution of intent as the first discussion item this evening?

So moved.

Second.

Move by council member Nollert, seconded by Councilmember Miller Fushi.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Okay.

So first up is discussion of the resolution of intent um to modify the mayor's term and to change council size.

And I don't know who's presenting or what is happening.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

Are we discussing the actual content of the item or just discussing whether to bring it forward to a public hearing?

This is just about bringing it forward to a public hearing, is my understanding.

Yeah, council.

Um, this is a resolution of intent uh which gives the public notice that you're interested in uh considering this topic uh and uh schedules a future discussion at a public hearing.

Uh this was on consent.

Um I understand uh council member Nollard had an interest in discussing this before it was voted on as opposed to just having it on consent.

Um I didn't inquire the detailed nature of of what he'd like to discuss, so I'll defer to him.

Yeah, thanks.

Um I I I wanted to just bring this one in front of us for a brief moment to talk.

I know we'll have a chance at the public hearing to discuss it further.

Um and I think it is worth having a public hearing because I I do see a lot of merit in the idea of a four-year term for the mayor.

Um I don't see and haven't been persuaded in my conversations yet that there's much merit in the idea of shrinking the council.

Uh the the main things that I have heard, and perhaps I'll hear something else in a moment, is um that shrinking the council would reduce the number of council members that any one of us has to talk to between meetings, that it might decrease meeting time, that it might make the council more collegial and less factional, and that it would save some money.

And as I've reflected on those, you know, I've watched this council as an outsider and then as a member um really go through I think a pretty significant culture change in the last few years.

I I feel that it's a very collegial body currently.

I think we have good conversations.

We've accomplished a lot of significant things together.

I mean, before I joined um the police reform occurred, uh complete community was adopted, um, we've done housing choices.

That was before I joined.

There have been important bonds since then, another text amendment.

We're actually doing quite a lot of good things and have have done them in previous iterations of the council and are continuing to do them under this collegial iteration.

I think that we can all look at meetings from other councils around the state and see that there are smaller bodies than us that deliberate much longer than we do, and there are smaller bodies than us that deliberate uh much more viciously than we do.

So I don't think that dropping two to seven members from nine would uh protect us from the possibility of that happening, but I that really feels like a choice that's up to us in terms of what the count uh the culture of the council is that we create.

And I feel very confident in all of you that we can create a great culture together and have already.

Um and the last thing that I'll say is in terms of saving the money that that I think it might save around sixty thousand dollars to drop two members, but sixty thousand in a budget of 180 million is uh not a ton, and I I am a proponent of efficiency, but I think that when you consider that we're representing 62,000 people, even if we are an unusually large council, um we're not unusually large in that we're like 15 or 20 members, you know, two two two members more than what we might typically see for a for a town of this size.

That's still quite a lot of people per council member being represented.

And I don't know that you know, I think I managed to check in with all of you at least once uh a month outside of council meetings and with some of you who are interested more often.

Um and I'm always happy to do it more with anybody anytime.

But um, you know, I don't think having to check in with eight people is a uh uh a crazy high bar when you're representing sixty-two thousand.

Um so that that sums up most of my thoughts.

I I think shrinking the council would really disadvantage um uh challenger candidates.

I think it would disadvantage members of small but significant groups in the town.

I think it would be really hard for young people.

I think I've sent you all a memo uh with some data about historical trends and representation on the council.

I've forwarded you a message from one of the council members who helped support the initial expansion because they thought it would make the town more representative, um uh the council more representative, not only racionally, but also in terms of age and sexual identity and all sorts of other factors.

And I think we've seen some data to support that.

So I appreciate your um indulgence of my desire to talk about this amendment.

I I think it's worth discussing, and uh I thank you for your time.

Councilmember McCullough?

Councilmember Miller Fushi?

Yeah.

So I have the the same kinds of concerns initially.

I was I was thinking, oh yeah, it'd be good to save that kind of money, and it does sound logical, and um I was very much convinced, being a a data um foundational person that the data of past elections appears to confirm the original intent of expanding the council, which was increased representation, and I I think that's more important than saving of money.

Um I do have a question about process.

Um and I don't quite understand what the process is going forward from this.

So my understanding in our um the gentleman to my left will surely correct me if I say anything in inaccurate, but I believe this is um a resolution of intent.

Um then we discuss as a board at uh at a calendared meeting, um an upcoming meeting about whether we would like to move forward.

And then there's things that happen uh out of that, depending on um if the board wants to move forward or not, there are different ways to do that.

There are details about whether we would want to put it to a referendum, or if there's enough people who sign a petition, then it has to go to a referendum.

And so there are some decisions about how we would do that if we chose that we wanted to do one or both of these changes.

So there's quite a bit of process and ability for us and the public to weigh in, and this is just us saying we're interested in in thinking about this, and then the whole process is designed to engage us and the public who can then say either we think you've made a reasonable case or we hate it, or whatever the case may be.

So I think the idea is to say, yeah, we're interested in considering it, but there's there is no other decision being made in until we would officially vote on that, as well as the path forward of how we would want to try and do that.

All right.

Thank you.

Is that accurate?

I think that's fairly stated.

Okay.

Oh, sorry, Councilmember Miller Fushi.

So I've had a chance to really speak to a lot of my colleagues about this resolution and the intent of it.

Um I've written some things down just so I can remain focused and very clear.

Um I am in firm opposition to this resolution.

Um it's not because I oppose the thoughtful structural change, um, and not because I doubt the good faith of my my colleagues, but because this proposal of reducing our council from eight to six members and extending the mayor's term to four years, for me really fails a test of equity.

It fails the test of representation, and it fails the test of democratic transparency at a moment when we desperately need more of all three.

Um let me be clear.

This resolution was placed on our consent agenda.

And I really want to thank my colleague Theodore Nollert for pulling this item for discussion for a fundamental restructuring of our town's charter.

Um that really gave me pause.

And many in our community um only learned about this when it appeared on our agenda, and many still are very unaware of this proposal.

I've had the opportunity to speak with some members of the community, and some of them are really upset and rightfully so, um, that such a consideration of such a major change, one that no board of coalition of residents has asked for you know, potentially moving through a three-week process with minimal public input.

Um that's not honoring we the people.

Um, in the past, I've considered what a reduction would look like, but on further reflection, I better understand what an eight-member council offers our community.

Our eight-member council size today has allowed us to see three African American members simultaneously, likely the most in Chapel Hill's history.

And on my first term, I saw the most diverse council ever.

We had two black women, the first Vietnamese American elected to office in the state of North Carolina, and openly LGBTQ representation was there, and that is not by accident.

Large bodies permit broader representation.

I want to thank you again, Theo, for reaching out to Jerry Cohen and to the manager for sharing with us what he understood in 1975 when they argued for expanding from six to eight members.

And I quote him directly expanding the number of aldermen from six to eight at least permits broader representation.

And I believe he was right.

Then I think he's right now.

Um reducing our council shrinks the table just as more people are still just fighting to have a seat at it.

Um a four-year mayor term combined with a smaller council makes it harder for voters to change direction.

It advantages incumbents.

It raises the barrier to entry for first-time candidates, especially those without name recognition, without wealthy networks, without the ability to run a longer expensive campaign.

And in a town with a large student population, a transient faculty and working families who already struggled to find time for civic engagement, lengthening terms and reducing seats closes doors at a time when we should be opening them.

I quote Gary again, who was writing against the four-year term in 1975 in a community like Chapel Hill, four years is a generation.

And with the large student population and a transient faculty, almost two-thirds of the town's current voters have been registered less than four years.

That's even more true today.

And to lock leadership for four years when our town turns over so rapidly is to prioritize stability over accountability and accountability is the soul of our democracy.

I want to speak very plainly.

At the federal level, we are witnessing a concerted effort to remove black and brown folks from leadership.

To gerrymander them out of power and to silence diverse voices.

And here in Chapel Hill, a town that prides itself on being progressive, on honoring the legacy of civil rights advocates like the Chapel Hill 9, and on remembering and honoring folks like Brox and Fushi, who became the first black alderman in Carrborough, and fought for a seat at every table here.

We are considering reducing representation.

I have spoken to black leaders in our community who oppose this strongly.

They see what I see.

A proposal that would make it harder, not easier, for a black mayor to ever be elected again.

Chapel Hill has not had a black mayor since 1969.

That is 57 years and counting.

And I see nothing in this resolution that moves us closer to ending that drought.

I see only walls.

This has never been a community priority.

There's no ground swells of residents asking for this.

There's no equity assessment done, no public diagnosis to precede this resolution.

A similar proposal was brought forward a couple of years ago.

It didn't advance in terms of considering.

And to me, on an accelerated timeline.

By being placed on our consent agenda.

That to me is not how we do transformal transformational change.

And if we're going to amend our charter, the foundational document of our town, we it I think it needs to be led by the people and not top-down, and certainly not in three weeks.

And I believe in a council that looks like the community it serves.

And we're not there yet.

And reducing our size for me moves us backwards.

And if the community really wanted this, let them propose it.

Let them lead a charter commission and let there be a referendum.

But tonight I cannot support this resolution, and I ask my colleagues to not support it either.

I ask us to remember that democracy is not about efficiency.

It is about who gets to speak, who gets to lead, and who gets left out.

And I don't want us to be the ones who close those doors.

Hi, thank you.

Councilmember Miller Fouchy, I'm really happy to hear you talking in support of transparency.

I think that's super important and including the community in this.

I think there was some unclarity about what was really happening tonight.

I know I saw some things on social media that weren't correct.

I think all we're doing by putting something on a consent agenda is saying we want to bring it to the public for a discussion and to cancel for a discussion.

So I think that's an appropriate procedural move.

I don't think there was any attempt to hide anything, any attempt to keep people out of the discussion.

I think we were, I think it's just a procedural thing saying yes, there has been interest in bringing this, we'll bring it to the public.

Um, in terms of the money question, I that's we have a very big budget.

I mean, we're always looking for for money.

I think it costs a lot more than $60,000 for two council members.

You have health insurance, you have staff time, you have when we go on a I mean on our retreat, just more people is more expensive.

Is it gonna solve our budget problems?

No.

It's some I think it's something to consider.

Um when I look at it, I as you eloquently put about the diversity in the last few councils that we've had.

I think the Chapel Hill voters are voting for broad representation.

Um when the council was expanded in the 70s.

I went back and looked at the minutes and looked who was serving, and there was a desperate, desperate problem.

There were many voices in this community that were nowhere near being represented.

I think we're in a very different time right now.

I think we're in a very different electorate.

Um I trust the people of Chapel Hill.

I think it's strongly in their interest to have a diverse council in the last 10 or 15 years that I've been working with this.

I've seen them do that.

So I I trust them that that is a strongly held value in our town.

So I welcome the discussion and the input.

I look forward to having the discussion with our community and hearing what people have to say.

Um I believe with you in opening access, not closing participation.

Um I would invite the board to maybe think about how that extends to other things like advisory boards that we um we really cut off a whole lot of community participation a couple years ago.

And maybe there's a way that we can, aside from this issue, maybe there's a way we can find a way to expand and open that community participation as well.

So I appreciate hearing everybody's position.

I've had some conversations with other folks.

I'm learning a lot, um, and I look forward to having coming in and listening to our community and having a really robust, transparent discussion about it.

Uh Councilmember Sharp.

Um I definitely support the resolution because I want it to come before the public so that we can have a public discussion about it, and that we can um have that discussion in the context of uh robust data.

Um that you know, and I very much appreciate that that not only was this not uh secretive, because this is actually just the procedure mandated by law in order to take this kind of action, but that also it is the procedure mandated so that we do bring it to the public.

Um because again, this is only in a resolution of intent to open this for conversation.

So this would be the chance for the town to come and tell us how they feel about this, and we are informing them actively right now.

Um I am interested in it because I see redundancy and inefficiency.

Um if it turns out that it it drastically by proof of data.

Uh well, for one thing, I think you can sort of slice data to show whatever you wanted to.

So I think if we're gonna make this decision based on data, we probably need various sets of it.

Um in fact, we should make this decision based on data.

So I think that um that's something that should we should bring to further discussion.

Should we pass this resolution of intent to discuss?

Mayor Pro Temberry.

Thank you.

This is a new one for us.

Um, the way that this has been brought to us.

It's new for me in my four plus years, and I think that's where we're thrown off.

Um Hees, you did attempt to help us with an email recently stating that this would just be for we want to bring it before the community in public hearing for discussion, not this one, but future.

And so I hope that we all can get around that.

I would like to discuss it since it's been brought up.

I would like to hear and engage in those conversations at the next time if we move forward with this.

Um but I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page.

And it sounds like we are getting there, but it's because it's new because it's different.

I think some of us have struggled with understanding where we are in this process.

This is a new step that we've not I've not experienced in my time.

And I started at the same time as Councilmember Miller Fushi.

This is very different.

Um it is right to be cautious when something is on the consent agenda.

I have pulled things from the consent agenda, and I think almost everyone, well, not everyone, but there are significant number of us who have.

And so I'd like for us um to get back to do we want to discuss this?

Um I'm not sure where it came from.

I have feelings about it.

I'm very willing to discuss um my opinions and what I think about this.

But as far as do I want to uh move forward with the decision to with the intent to consider my position is yes, I'm willing to do that.

Uh Councilmember McMahon?

Uh thank you.

And I think part of the reason why I would like to have a hearing on it is particularly what I heard from you, Councilmember Shee, and other members of the public on things that I didn't think about.

So, what was I thinking about when I pursued this?

Um wanting to talk about it.

Yes, there's money, yes, there's efficiencies, but I really want to focus on achieving our goals.

And the question for me is to what effect does the size of our council impact us achieving our goals in a timeline that's reasonable and gets us what we want.

I'm looking at Asheville, Kerry, Morrisville, Raleigh, Durham, Apex, Pittsburgh, that all have smaller councils.

Um do I agree with everything they're doing and not what they're doing?

I don't know, but I do see them moving forward on a number of key goals that we want to move forward on, and maybe it has nothing to do with council size.

Um maybe it has other factors involved on uh why they're able to do the things they're doing in our area.

Um in what I see in some instances a lot more quickly than we're getting to, particularly with our LUMO, particularly with uh stormwater, some of these issues that get kind of they feel intractable or bogged down.

It may have nothing to do with council size.

But maybe I'm simple-minded about it, but my initial thing was these other communities that are larger have a smaller council size, and I see them achieving some of the goals that I want us to achieve.

So the conversation for me is how can we if our council size in any way creates barriers to us achieving our goals effectively, then I just want to have that conversation.

If there are other goals such as equity and representation that um are impacted here in Chapel Hill, uh we always want to do better in Chapel Hill.

We always want to exceed on these issues.

Um but I do I don't I would also wonder all these other communities I've listed.

Do they have representation issues with their smaller councils?

Um I I'm not sure.

I think um a number of these communities do have strong representation, even though they have a smaller council size.

So the the big thing for me is having the hearing so I can know all of these things.

There's a lot of information going around about what happened or how we got here or what impacts will be, and let's have a conversation about it and and uh information that I don't know will come to light, and hopefully information that the community brings to us will help shed light on it.

But personally, my interest isn't just moving forward on our goals faster and figuring out if council size has any impact on that councilmember Rivers.

The two are not a package deal, right?

Correct.

So theoretically, we could extend the term of mayor, leave council the same size.

I feel pretty strongly about the length of the mayor's term.

I think with two years, it's not enough time to set up a vision, and it feels like our mayors don't take risks, they don't get a chance to have full leadership.

And I'm concerned about that.

It's not just about this current mayor, but it's just any of our mayors going forward.

I feel like they're always running.

So I could see theoretically, if we're concerned about you know, extending the length of the mayor's term.

We keep council the same.

So if we don't like the mayor, they have an unwieldy council to do it.

You can curse them but I I I feel pretty strongly about delightful given just theoretically.

Um but I feel pretty strongly about yes, we'll be stuck with someone for four years.

But maybe we'll have someone who in four years grows into the position and has a chance to take more chances under leadership.

Councilmember Sharp, and then followed by Councilmember Nollert.

One of the things that is I'm hearing for the first time in this discussion is that there's all kinds of information flying around out there.

I don't know what that information is.

I'm not on social media.

Um and so one thing I think that could be helpful in bringing this to public discussion is that we would all be dealing hopefully with the same information.

Um I would want to reassure those of you who are really worried about this and for good reason.

I can understand why that should the information that comes forward say we will end up with a less representative council if we reduce the size.

That's not something I would vote for.

Um so I just I just I just want to see how the cookie crumbles and do it publicly so that we can have that honest discussion.

Um yeah, and if there are efficiencies to be realized, great.

If those are at the expense of diversity and representation, that won't work.

Councilmember Nollard.

Yeah, um thanks everyone for for sharing thoughts and engaging on this.

Uh mic reminder.

Thanks, everyone for sharing thoughts and engaging on this.

Um at this time I'd like to move the resolution.

Second um move by council member Nollert, seconded by council Mayor Pro Tembury, and I'm gonna make a brief comment as well during um before we vote.

Um so number one, I do want to assure us and the public that this um has been a procedurally sound and very transparent process.

This was about voting to even talk about it.

And um April 8th at 126 p.m.

Our manager emailed all of us asking if we would like it to be on consent, if we had any concerns, and if we would we were welcome to pull it, and also we could just put it on discussion.

So based on not hearing anything, the staff move forward with putting it on consent so that we could talk about it.

So I just want to um make sure that we are not casting doubt on our processes or our transparency as we debate an issue that we should absolutely have a debate about.

But um that's number one because I think all of us care about doing things the right way and having process that serves the best interest of the public.

Um I guess the other thing that I'll say is that when I was on council, I supported reducing council.

Um and I offered that if that meant my seat that we could take it because I think it is a larger than average size board, and that can be unwieldy and it can um I think make things more difficult sometimes.

However, I also did not want to do something that would impact representation or that would do something that would be counter to our other goals because efficiency is not the only one.

So I did a little homework myself and I looked through who came in first, second, third, and fourth in since 2009.

And overwhelmingly um everyone who came in first was a woman, a person of color, or both, and overwhelmingly the person who came in fourth was um not in a protected class.

So that made me feel comfortable that this was at least a reasonable conversation to have.

Um that was kind of the baseline for me of at least feeling comfortable that this would be something good to talk about.

Um that I sit as mayor, it is harder to have a larger board, and I've talked to other mayors.

Um I've talked to mayors who actually have larger boards and they do not love it.

Um it is it doesn't sound like a lot to talk to your colleagues once a month, but that's not the experience of our staff or I think of the mayor.

Um and I'm not speaking for staff.

Um staff can give you their own opinions if they would like about what is an optimal board size, but I doubt they're gonna do that.

Um but um it is a lot more work to manage a larger than average council, and I believe that there is potentially evidence out there that it would not impact our ability to have um diversity.

Um 62,000 people um will never without districts will never be adequately represented by nine people or eleven or twenty.

So at some point we have to figure out what is the best system given an imperfect system.

So with that, um we have a motion on the floor.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Motion passes eight to one.

Thank you.

Um item number 14 is our local affordable housing funding program allocations.

And Emily Holt is here to walk us through.

Welcome.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Emily Holtz, and I'm the assistant director for the housing in the town county and community.

I think you need your mic.

Oh, not even faking the right one.

Well, we kind of moved it away from you earlier.

So all right, shall I start over?

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Emily Holt, and I am the assistant director for affordable housing in the town's housing and community development department.

I have a brief presentation for you tonight related to our local affordable housing funding program.

Tonight, we are asking council to adopt R6, a resolution to grant the town manager or their designee the authority to approve allocations of up to 250,000 from the local affordable housing funding program.

So basically, we're asking council to increase the amount of funding that the manager has the authority to approve for a defined amount of money.

Here is some context on that request.

A little over a year ago, council adopted a resolution that granted the manager the authority to establish and administer a unified local affordable housing funding program, which combines several funding sources into one pot with one set of priorities, goals, and requirements.

That resolution established a cap on the amount of funding the manager could approve without going to council.

That cap was $100,000 for any single allocation and up to $400,000 in one year.

Another relevant factor is that last November, council approved a modification to the conditional zoning permit for the Hillmont residential development project.

The modification was to replace a portion of the approved on-site affordable units with a monetary contribution to affordable housing in the amount of 1,115,000.

Council approved a miscellaneous budget amendment on the consent agenda tonight that makes that funding available for spending.

This funding is really exciting for the town because it offers a cushion that is allowing us to consider some of our non-development affordable housing funding needs.

The intent of the $100,000 CAP was to grant limited authority to the manager to allow staff to respond quickly to smaller time-sensitive affordable housing funding needs that align with the town's housing plans and council's goals.

As mentioned, the increased cap would be limited to the 1.15 million that the town received from the Hillmont project.

We are proposing this as a pilot on a defined amount of money to see how a larger cap might help us implement some of our key housing initiatives.

So any one allocation would have a 250,000 cap for manager appropriate manager approval, but only for up to 1.15 million.

After that, we would be back to the 100,000 cap, and anything over that council would have to approve.

On that note, we anticipate that the next large pot of affordable housing funding will be released to partners in early fall of 2026.

That and any other funding plans and allocation requests for larger development and preservation activities will come to council for review.

And finally, I want to note that staff are only considering funding for activities that align with existing council approved activities priorities and plans.

So that could be the complete community framework framework, the affordable housing plan and investment strategy, the manufactured homes action plan, and the public housing master plan.

All uses will fall within the eligible activities for affordable housing funding program.

These include construction of new affordable housing, land acquisition and land banking, rehabilitation and redevelopment of units, and this includes town-owned units and manufactured home units, future development planning, rental utility and relocation assistance, and financial assistance to assistance to homeowners like down payment assistance.

Again, this evening we're asking council to adopt a resolution that grants the town manager authority to approve allocate allocations of up to 250,000 from the local affordable housing funding program.

Thank you, Emily.

Uh council questions.

Yeah, council member sharp.

Uh the 1.15 million from the Helmut.

That if I'm remembering correctly, when we accepted that as an alternative to units, we had a lot of discussion about that being something that could subsidize a Litech project.

Is that and and I think that was one of the reasons that a lot of us were okay, just because we would be able to get so many units in a Litech project with that amount of money, and it's so rare for us to have the amount of matching money that we would need.

Um so it seems like now that is not the intended use for that one point.

Can you just walk us through what has happened there?

Um so the money is going into the same pot as our other money, so it's it's not really designated as like it's it's increasing the amount we have available.

So we have a million and change more than normal.

Okay.

So if it were to go to a Litech project, we would because we have this, we still have money for that, and that certainly would come to you all.

Um this, as I said, is we see it as a chance to do some of the things that you don't usually hear us do because we're using often a lot of our money for LITEC development.

Okay.

Um next question is is about a couple things that I saw mentioned is potential things that we could do with the money.

A couple of them seem to me like sort of like um programs that would have extended costs beyond this beyond what we have with this 1.15 million, like a rental subsidy and um down payment assistance program.

That those so like it's not necessarily the amount that I'm worried about for this one, but it's like the types of things that it might I don't recording versus one time, right?

Things with recurring and and and long-term lifespan expenses that we would then need to find other ways to fund.

So I is there some way that we can work around that that would that like you know, if there's something that needs constructing that's costing a ton that is gonna cost 250,000.

I certainly don't want to tie the staffs or the managers' hands and getting things done, but um I also have some concerns about creating programs wholesale that we haven't voted on and that will cost the town money in the future, which we may want it to, but I just think it's something that would need further discussion.

Sure.

Um so that that makes sense, and one of the reasons that things like the homeownership assistance would exceed 100,000 is that we would it could span more than one year.

So it's not that we would in any given year put that much towards that sort of program.

I think we don't have the resources to put up the kind of money that like Durham puts towards that sort of thing.

Um we could with 250 get more than one year of something like home ownership assistance.

So if that's something that makes council nervous, then that we could, you know, we can talk through what interests and concerns are with that sort of activity.

Yeah, it's not please understand it's not that I don't want us to have those types of programs, it's more about like their lifespan and what we would what we would be authorizing without authorizing anything.

Um so yeah, I think that those those types of things would I don't know, is there a is there a way to we have to amend the resolution if we wanted to me that seems like something too complicated to do from the day as tonight would be amending the resolution resolution to specifically restrict the things that the town manager could do.

I mean, I I don't I certainly don't have the expertise to do that on the fly.

Um I mean I don't know if this helps, but I know if in talking to people about their homeownership assistance program, they they have to go with some set number of years back to to renew up um their funding or in some cases like a partnership agreement, like they there is usually a time limit on how many years those can span before revisiting it.

I don't that doesn't quite get it the same concern, but um most people aren't don't have like uh a ne an a never-ending timeline for yeah.

Okay, hold that over.

Thanks.

Any other questions?

Um Emily, the reason that the LITEC project that we thought we were going that we were taking the payment in lieu for it's is not moving forward.

Is that we're talking about the same one?

Um with the 1.15.

Yeah.

Um this is a market rate project that was swapping units.

There was a modification to their original.

They were going to give 43 units and then they came back in the fall and they reduced that to 20, and then they replaced that with there was this there was another LITEC project that's not moving forward with a much bigger town.

The one right here.

Yeah.

Okay.

So not related.

Then I got yeah confused.

I think the LITTEC project that we were we were hoping to be providing the matching funds for with this 1.15 million was sort of like a theoretical LITEC project.

Like, oh, this would be enough.

Or is it with Melbourne?

Or with some that you had on the had in the works, but that more it wasn't for a specific one.

I thought.

Well, everybody thinks something.

I mean clearly we need information.

We all had different ideas, but it didn't that's not happening.

So uh council member.

I mean, I may have caused some of that confusion because when I started asking questions about it, my thought was if we had that kind of money, it would give us the opportunity to have more flexibility in some of the things that we need to have money for, such as a light tech project.

So that may be where this came up and confused people.

I think I actually thought that we were trying to put it towards the one down the street.

But that we hadn't voted on it.

I mean we hadn't done it, but I thought that that was kind of the direction we were going with the conversation, it would have to come back, but obviously that's not happening.

So that's right.

That funding um will come back to the town, it's large, and will you will that's what in fall when we release money, um, it will be part of that and it will definitely exceed.

Which is exciting.

Which is very exciting.

Um council, are there members of the public wishing to speak?

No.

Okay.

Um council comments.

Um council member Ryan.

Thank you.

Um, thank you for your presentation.

Um I support this particular program.

I think we have or this proposal, we have a well-designed housing policy.

You laid out all the things that we know where you're going to spend things on.

Um, and so I think it's reasonable for this thing.

Moving it to a pilot project brings up some other issues for me.

I think that I don't know if we have a council policy broadly across departments about where the manager's discretion is.

If we do have a policy, I don't know how long it's been since we've looked at it.

I don't know, is it reasonable?

Is you know, if have times changed and we've gotten into trouble for it.

I would really like at some point not to bring back this as a specific pilot, but to address it as a broader organizational issue.

I think Elizabeth, that we'd get to some of the issues you have about recurring in one time or you know how how we're thinking about this whole approval.

So I would I welcome to have that discussion separate from this particular issue and just make sure that we understand what our policy is and that it's a good one for 2026 and moving forward and that meets our operational needs.

Councilmember McCullough?

Yes.

Um I support this.

Um I was thinking if it was a pilot, then we would have a chance to see if it worked.

Um, but if we pass it with as not as a pilot, then if it doesn't work well, then we can we can change it later.

But um but one of the reasons I support it is because the way that the costs of everything were are going up.

Um I don't know when the 100 per uh K cap was instituted, but in real dollar terms, um the comparison to today's dollars is not gonna be um that 100k is not gonna get the kind same kind of of impact.

And I think that we need to have um the opportunity to have that same impact on a more um nimble flexible way council member sharp.

Um I mean I think I'm gonna support this in this case because this is it's great that we have this funding and knowing that we have such an ambitious affordable housing plan and um it we are strapped to find the money to to activate it.

I think I don't certainly wouldn't want to pass this up, but I would very much like to express interest in having this come back as like a general issue of like you know, because it isn't just in the affordable housing program that costs of things are going up and that the manager might need higher limits on his discretionary spending.

Um and so I think it is worth probably bringing it back so that we can talk about what ways in which the council is comfortable having those limits go up broadly.

Um council member McMahon.

Yeah, I mean I support this for this individual thing, but just to echo this idea of um updating our policy around when we make these decisions, and I'll just put a plug-in back at the end of March.

I email the manager and the mayor looking at how we update our procurement policy across the board.

It hasn't been updated since 2018.

Uh that was spurned on me because I, you know, on the board of trustees at Go Triangle, they updated their procurement policy.

I know this isn't procurement, but it it kind of feeds into updating things to take account for inflation, giving flexibility where it's needed, also providing caution where caution is needed, and just you know, not only cost, but new factors that that play into here with different technologies and different tools available that might um lend updating where we're at as far as manage our discretion on spending in this and other items across the board.

So echoing that.

Mayor Pro Temberry.

I appreciate this.

Um helping us to understand where we are and um the fact that we have this opportunity to test this out.

I'm about experimenting, so I appreciate those.

And I have to echo what my colleagues have said.

Listening to listening to the public radio station this afternoon of just uh jet fuel has doubled, right?

And and it won't be corrected even if we were to if the war were to cease today, it would take time to recorrect.

And that is just one issue weighing on our economy.

So I think that we need to be as nimble as possible.

I think this will not jeopardize um uh where we are because we will be coming back to look at this again.

I think it's a worthwhile um pilot.

Thank you.

Did I miss anybody?

Okay.

Um I too think this is um this is a good idea.

Um I think you all have done a really a lot of work to set up a policy framework so that we kind of know what the boundaries are, and I think that's like kind of the ideal where council sets policy, and then we can allow you all to go do and not be in the way when you need to do things that we want you to do.

Um and I also agree, I think um the cost of things have gone up.

Um I also think you know, I'm hoping there I I happen to trust our manager and our budget director quite a bit.

Um, so I'm not worried about fiscal constraints for individuals.

I just think good policy is good policy, and so I agree that updating and taking a look at what are what are kind of where where should that line be?

I think it protects our staff too sometimes when council actually reviews things or you know, it can be on consent.

Um but what best practice looks like it's not an area that I'm familiar with, but I think um we've seen places where fiscal things have gone off the rails a bit um in the past year and other municipalities, and I think we certainly just want to be able to be transparent and clear about what our policies are and also how we make sure, even if even if we say we actually really want you to be able to spend more, and the there is a good reason for it, and also maybe there's just um a way of making sure that we know and the public knows that it's happening, even if we're not approving it.

I mean, I think there's all sorts of ways to do a good job and make sure that we're protecting ourselves and our staff.

So I support the larger conversation, and I also support um this individual um recommended action.

So, council, do I have a motion?

So moved moved by a council member Mayor Pro Temberry, seconded by uh council member Miller Fushi.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Um motion is unanimous.

And um manager Voorhees, I'm hearing an interest in kind of maybe I guess a work session topic, perhaps.

That's unreasonable.

We'd be delighted to engage with you on this topic.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I knew you'd be delighted.

Um next up, another housing item.

Item 15 is a public hearing on the 2026-2027 CDBG annual action plan draft.

Um it says Lauren Clark and Emily Holt, but I know that's not the case.

No.

Hello, Melissa.

Hello.

Hello, Ms.

Peters.

I'm not either of those people.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Melissa Peters, and I am the funding programs coordinator for the housing and community development department.

The public hearing tonight is the second of two annual public hearings on housing and community development needs related to the community development block grant, otherwise known as CDBG.

The comments received tonight will help the town determine the use of 2026 to 27 CDBG funding and finalize the 2026 annual action plan.

So tonight we are asking council to open the public hearing to receive comments on the draft 2026 to 27 CDBG Annual Action Plan.

There we know further council action required tonight.

The Department of Housing and Urban Development, or HUD, requires that we hold two annual public hearings during the CDBG program year to ensure community involvement and how these funds are used.

These hearings are opened during council sessions.

HUD also requires the town to review currently funded activities at one of these hearings, and that will be tonight.

So the town is classed as an entitlement community by HUD, which means we receive a certain amount of yearly funding from them.

All activities funded by this program must meet one of three national objectives that is benefit to low and moderate income or LMI households, aiding in the elimination of slum and blight areas, which is official HUD language, or to meet an urgent need.

The town allocates all of our funding outside of our administrative funding to benefiting low to moderate income households.

The objectives of the CDBG program are closely aligned with town priorities, as the main purposes include support of social services for LMI households and expanding and preserving affordable and rental affordable rental housing.

The CDBG program is also included in the town's housing and community development work plan and housing is also one of council's strategic priorities, which y'all determined earlier this year.

So the town is part of the home consortium, which is led by Orange County and also includes the towns of Carborough and Hillsboro.

As the head of the consortium, the county handles the draft process for the consolidated plan.

And this plan identifies town and county priorities for CDBG and home funds over five years.

So this CON plan is from 2025 to 2029.

Every year, the town creates an annual action plan that outlines our funding plan and which activities we plan to fund for the next program year.

These projects must align with the con plan's priorities.

And these were developed over extensive community engagement last year.

And they are increase affordable rental housing, preserve and rehab affordable housing, increase permanent supportive housing and housing for special needs populations, and support near neighborhood revitalization and essential community services.

Two of which are internal town projects and programs, and the other six are partner organization projects.

And everyone is doing very well.

And then about 1734,000 from prior grants, undispersed or returned funding.

And council actually voted on reallocating that in January, if y'all remember.

So we staff evaluated the eligible applications using an updated scoring rubric with key areas including organizational experience with town and CDBG projects, population served, and how these projects fit federal and local priorities.

Staff recommend funding seven of these requests along with one town program and administration costs.

So this first category is for affordable housing activities.

Staff recommends partially funding empowerments rehab of a single family home in their rental inventory.

CASA's rehabilitation of five of their affordable rental duplexes, so 10 units total, up to 30 small unit repairs for Hope Renovations older and disabled homeowners rehab program, which will also allow them to train up to 25 underemployed individuals, and two repairs through Habitat's comprehensive repairs program.

That will be 67 households or units total.

So public facilities, we don't typically have any public facilities activities, but this one is eligible because it is a nonprofit owned facility for persons with special needs.

They have three, and they need roof replacements.

So this will be partial funding of these three roof replacements for these buildings, which provide temporary housing for women and families experiencing homelessness.

And that will be up to 45 households and individuals served.

This next category is economic development, and staff recommend partially funding transplanting traditions program to support refugee farmer owned microenterprises in expanding their businesses, strengthening their business knowledge, and receiving translation and interpretation services.

Transplanting Traditions will also be using this funding to implement the pilot year of an agricultural producer hub, which will provide marketing, financial, and customer support to participant farmers.

I have 17 households in transplanting traditions that will benefit from this, but we also expect more households that will be attending this producer hub.

The last category is public service activities.

Staff recommend that the town fully fund our internal summer youth employment program, which employs Chapel Hill youth in the summer in town departments and partner organizations.

Town staff are applying for human services funding from the town of Carborough to allow Carborough youth to also participate in the program.

Staff recommend partial funding of the Interfaith Council's homeless case management position for their Home Start program, which would also assist individuals and families in having temporary housing and securing permanent housing.

So these are all the projects that we're recommending for funding.

Again, that is seven partner projects and one internal town project and then administration funding.

So the total amount funded is 605,595.

We are now at the second step in the CDBG public comment process.

Once the public hearing and the 30-day public comment period are finished, the 2026 to 27 draft annual action plan will return on council's consent agenda at the end of April in time for the consortium and town to submit them to HUD by the deadline, which is June 8th.

So tonight we are asking council to open the public hearing and receive comments on the draft 2026 to 27 CDBG annual action plan.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Council questions.

Councilmember Miller Fushi, followed by Councilmember Sharp.

Thank you.

Um I'm really concerned about the threats to CDBG funding and what kind of conversations we're having with our partners who are, you know, in charge of a lot of this important work that's taking place.

I can have Emily answer that, but actually, if is this about the Trump administration recommending no CDBG funding for the second year, you know, it has to go to Congress and all that.

But yeah.

Um, every year that the administration has produced a budget, they have recommended uh slashing the CDBG project.

I will say it's never happened, and doesn't mean it won't because you never know.

But Congress has uh systematically and continuously showed their support for the program, including as well as home and other um community development projects throughout um this administration and previous administrations.

So we definitely will have conversations with subrecipients.

It's not if this was say the first time that they had recommended cutting it completely, it would be a greater concern, but because especially with last year they actually increased the budget for the program, which is one of the first times they've done that in a long time.

It's not as big as a as a concern as maybe it would be, but we'll always um have conversations with our subrecipients about what they can expect.

Yeah, thank you because like you know, I know like a new tactic now to is like you know saying fraud, is it like CDBG said risk for fraud or something, and so um there are a lot of tactics.

So yes, and there's also a uh National Community Development Association that handles home and CDBG, and they are very active with uh Congress people and making sure that that our needs are heard.

Okay, thank you.

Uh council member sharp followed by council member rivers.

Um in the charts that we were given, which I'm not gonna lie, I had trouble parsing.

There were a lot of charts.

Um, which is purely a comment on my own um insufficient knowledge of what you're doing.

But um in the in the column of prior year resources in some of the items.

Where are those prior year resources coming from?

They're prior C D BG grants.

So is it just because I mean we we allocate our C D C D BG money each time?

So is it projects that didn't happen or that didn't cost as much as we thought they would, or so it's projects, some subrecipients still have funding remaining because they haven't finished spending their past funding, and also this last year we had um the shutdown about two business days before after we received our grant letter.

So we couldn't send it back and agree to the grant, so we couldn't receive our grant for quite some time.

So we didn't actually sign grant agreements until many of them until January or February of this year.

So that's why you'll see some of those subrecipients having their grants still because they simply didn't have the time to spend them.

Got it.

And CDBG has a timeliness test every May, so that means that we need to have less than 1.5 times our grant amounts spent or remaining or how will ding us.

So we do make sure that subrecipients do spend their money when they receive it simply because if we did have a lot left, um we might get money taken.

Okay.

I my my purpose in asking that question is is only that I know that every time, I mean, obviously this time there are there are many things that we we have to choose not to fund.

And so I just want to make sure that we're um choosing wisely, but it doesn't sound like the issue is that you know we're we're choosing to fund things that then don't end up needing the money and other things didn't get money they needed, etc.

That's that's my only interest in in wondering why we have leftover money.

Yes, of course.

And there's prior awards and there's also remaining money.

I know we put both of those on there.

Okay.

Councilmember Rivers, followed by Mayor Pertin.

Hi, thanks for the presentation.

Um what are the reported demographic reporting requirements for these funds?

So HUD has um released new requirements as of last grant year that require subrecipients to report to save, which is um US I always forget the acronym.

It's under homeland security, so yes, but I will say we've spoken to all recipients, sub-recipients.

We spoke to them when we were releasing these funds this year, and we there are subrecipients that are exempt from these requirements, for example, homeless shelters, uh, because it's technically emergency management.

And we also recently there has been a pause in CPD or CDBG grantees being able to register for SAVE, so we haven't actually run anything through SAVE because there's currently a pause on it.

We're waiting for more feedback and guidance from our HUD recipient.

But besides that, there the other demographics are um ethnicity, race, and the AMI level that they fall into.

So it's zero to 30% AMI or um low, then it's 31 to 50, 51 to 80.

And do we have to report immigration status?

I have not had to do that.

I believe that's what Save is trying to have report, but as of now, since that registration is paused, we have not yet.

Can we get an update when that goes into effect?

Yes.

Are there members of the public wishing to speak?

Oh, I am so sorry.

I'm very sorry.

I even said your name, please.

Yeah.

Uh and just for the record, there are none uh registered yet to speak.

Thank you.

So thank you very much for this and walking us through it.

I would love to lift up one um element in here, and that is the youth employment, the summer youth employment.

When I was at community home trust, we had two students I remember vividly coming for the summer, and when you said we're the town of Chapel Hill is partnering with the town of Carberough on this.

Can you help us um understand what it means to place uh young people through these two municipalities?

Where do they get placed?

And I would love at some time to have some of them come in and be recognized for having gone through that.

Oh, I I will tell so um Jackie Yes, Thompson and yes, Jackie Thompson and Zakel Hall run the summer youth employment program, and I'm sure they would love to run that by the same.

Jackie's gonna kill me.

But yes, I've worked with her a long time.

Yes.

So uh Chapel Hill's CDBG funds can't be spent on Carborough youth, they do partner with Carbro because then there's I believe they had 12 to 4 14 Carbo youth last year, they had 16 Chapel Hill youth, so they had 30 youth last year who are placed.

I'm not sure if still in community home trust, but they're placed in many different departments.

We had at least one last year, if not.

Yes, we had one, I believe comms had someone.

Uh we had a few that were in public works, and one with public housing maintenance team, and they are how much am I allowed to?

I don't know how much I can since I manage over them.

How much can I positively speak on the program?

What are their positions?

Yes, those are I think you should brag on the on the program.

Yes.

I will say that uh over the past few years, especially since COVID, they've been working on building it back up, and I know that Jackie and Z have really focused on letting the students get a voice within the program on what they want to do, and that they actually changed the they have a celebration at the end of every summer to just celebrate everyone's accomplishments, and they let the youth choose how to do it last year, and I think it was a really big success.

I'm really grateful for that program.

Thank you.

Now are there any members of the public wishing to speak?

Nobody ran up there while you were talking.

Okay.

Um council, any final comments.

Um yeah, council member Rivers.

Yeah, I just think just want to echo what council member Miller Fushi said about you know the status of these funds, and also eventually we should probably have a discussion if these funds start coming with strings attached to them that we think may put people in danger.

So maybe this is something we should revisit when I'm looking at the Save Act or the SAVE system and it looks bad.

So maybe this is something we should revisit when it is up and ready.

I just uh I want to add that we that Melissa especially has been in communication um with uh sub recipients who were affected by that addition last fall because it came in the grant agreement very suddenly and then the government shut down and did a lot, had a lot of conversations with them about who is held to those and what does that mean?

Um, and then similarly, what we always do like a um orientation when we release our funding, and in that we had several slides that really walked them through the same thing.

What does this mean?

Who is gonna be held to this?

Because there's exemptions, a number of our subrecipients aren't um, and then we um have you know, of course, offered for them to talk to us.

We've had lots of conversations that I mean it's never enough, but I don't want you all to think that um we aren't communicating at that.

I mean, it and right now it's frozen, so we did all that, and then it turns out that people aren't held to it right now.

Um, but just wanted to put that in.

Thank you.

Councilmember Miller Fushi.

Yeah, I want to thank um Councilmember Rivers for saying that because um just going back to what I was I said stated earlier, like there are attempts of like there are ways where yes, it can still be funded, but there are also ways to make it difficult for those who need the funding to get it by putting in certain requirements for this type of funding that is meant to strategically um target um the kind of social ums that um some folks don't want to fund, um whether it's with immigration status or whether it is with you know you have to be working in order to like putting these stipulations um in certain things.

And so I just really want us to stay on top of like all of that and it coming um to us so we can um be able to respond if needed to it all.

Um thank you.

Um, thank you for this.

We will see you for the final vote.

Um I just wanted to thank you all for working under these conditions.

Um it it's it's um it's been a little while now that things have been so chaotic, but I do think it does have a huge impact on us at the local level in many ways.

But um this all seems, I guess to me, and I think all of us like a no-brainer that these you know, trying to get a roof repaired on um one of the shelters or trying to keep you know seniors in their homes with minor repairs is not it's a very small amount of money.

Um, and we're spending one to two billion dollars a day on um direct military expenditures.

Um so I know that that is demoralizing, but I think you all um and Ms.

Jenks uh looking at you two are working um under conditions where I don't know that we can tell you enough how much we appreciate you, but um, but thank you for doing what you're doing, it's really important, and you don't have enough money to do it.

So with that, um we will see you back for the final uh vote, which is when?

The 29th.

29th.

Okay.

So we will see you soon.

And it's consent.

Yes.

Sorry?

It's consent.

So you won't see me.

Oh, you don't want to come for consent?

Working conditions.

Um, thank you very much, Ms.

Peters, um, and thank you to the entire team.

And um with that, we will move on to item number 16 with it, which is an update on our climate action implementation.

Mayor, we we do need to open the public hearing just for the record.

Oh, okay.

Council, do I have a motion to open the public hearing?

Move by Mayor Pro Temberry, and then I'll say Councilmember Miller Fushi, because I don't know.

Um, all those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

No, no, no, no.

No.

It'll come again in pro vote.

Hello, Mr.

Richardson, welcome.

Good evening, Mayor and Council John Richardson.

I serve as your community sustainability manager.

Um I usually come about once a year to talk to you about our climate action plan.

And uh so that's what I'm here to do tonight.

Can I uh is it faint?

A little closer.

Okay.

Um we're a couple of headlines here for tonight.

We're ahead of schedule on our climate goals.

Um our current projects can take us even farther, and we'll soon engage with the community about a planned update.

So a little bit of background about where we are.

Um when it comes to the work that we do with climate action, we mainly care about sort of two big buckets.

One is what's causing the emissions here in Chapel Hill that contribute to climate change, and also how do we um react to a change in climate and respond and adapt.

But this slide is focused on the emissions side, and so we measure our emissions looking backwards at the year 2005, that's our base year, and we're measuring against what the emissions were then versus what they are now.

And this council set a target back in 2019, uh, planning that we would be 26 to 28 percent lower by last year.

And so that was the target.

Turns out we are actually at 32% below that number, so we're a little bit ahead, which is good news.

Some of the key drivers around that, you may be interested to know.

UNC's efforts to move away from coal and use natural gas at the COGIN plant, that's a big factor.

Utilities like Duke Energy doing the same thing to green the grid, moving away from coal, moving to less uh carbon intensive fuels, that also helps.

When they make decisions about their carbon plan, so you all just mayor signed on to a letter recently advocating for a more transparent and uh expedient plan.

Um that sort of advocacy helps.

And then also coming out of COVID, we noticed that people got more comfortable with teleworking and micromobility and things like that, which are also helping.

Uh the plan itself, which was adopted five years ago almost exactly.

I think we were on Zoom, if I'm not mistaken, um was uh is focused on these four main action categories uh buildings and energy, transportation and land use, uh, waste, water, and natural resources, and resiliency.

So the examples I'll talk about tonight, one of them, or they they fit into these four buckets, I should say.

Um intersects with uh each of your strategic priorities.

The most obvious being the environmental resiliency uh category, but even with complete community, we are focused and working on with planning the LUMO rewrite, for example.

Um, and then when it comes to organizational and fiscal sustainability, when we do lighting upgrades or we make changes with our fleet that lead to savings, that's part of uh that effort as well.

Um we work with a lot of departments.

Our small office of two works with everybody, uh, and we have lots of outside partners as well, and lots of help, I should say.

Um we have internal and external funding sources, as you all know.

We have a general fund annual allocation, which we call the climate action fund, uh, but we also get grants local, state, and federal, uh, incentives, mostly utility, and then um in the last couple of years, we have been able to apply for inflation reduction act benefits, which are basically uh credits, tax credits that used to only be available to the private sector uh with the IRA, they changed that and they said local governments, other governments can now tap into those.

So for the electric vehicles we've purchased since 2023, we have filed for rebates for those.

Um so that's a new uh revenue for us as well.

Okay, just some highlights over the next few slides.

Um things we've been working on lately, and I just want to say quickly uh to sort of set the stage.

Um 97% of the emissions we generate in Chapel Hill come from two sources the energy we use in our buildings and the energy we uh use to uh in our vehicles.

And so um that's where we focus a lot of our attention is on those two sectors.

Uh and staying with the theme of buildings, this is the rooftop of the library.

A big focus for us this year is completing a study, we call it the sustainable facilities study.

We're looking at 11 of our largest facilities where we have the most opportunity.

Um we've done uh lighting upgrades, we've tackled a lot of the low-hanging fruit for several years now.

Cedar Falls Park, we redid the lighting out there, um, the library, and we will continue to do projects like that.

But this project is a little different.

This is um more of what we call kind of a big swing.

So I mentioned to you that we're a little bit ahead of schedule on our target, but our next target is 59%.

Okay, so we've got a big jump to make by 2030, and it's gonna take projects like this operationally to help get us there.

So this is a study where we are going to try to maximize, find out how we can maximize rooftop solar and battery storage while also expanding our EV fleet and our infrastructure that supports it.

Um it'll be wrapped up by July of this year, and what it will do is uh give us total cost of ownership scenarios for these investments.

So it won't just tell us how much these things cost, it will actually uh tell us how much value there is wrapped up in each of these investments.

Uh we're also focused on EV charging stations, which are really important, like I said, for reducing the emissions that come from our vehicles.

Um, well, if it's if it's charging off of a grid that's connected to a coal-fired power plant, how is this better than a regular gasoline powered vehicle?

The University of Michigan answered that question a few years ago.

Uh EVs on average are about 62% cleaner on emissions than gasoline powered cars.

EVs on average are about 62% cleaner on emissions than gasoline powered cars.

And that's from all that goes into building them all the raw materials all the way through their lifespan.

And so last year we actually added 20 stations to the Rosemary parking deck, and that doubled our capacity the stations that we the town host and maintain.

I say stations, it's a little bit of a shorthand.

I really mean plugs like the literal handles, because sometimes stations have two and it just gets confusing.

So I think you know what I mean.

We are very close.

It's it's we're just getting over a little hiccup and hurdle, but we'll be there soon.

Um I'm proud to say that at Public Works we have our first fast charging station, which was put in to support our first EV refuse truck, which will soon go into operation.

Um it will have some decals like normal, but it will also have some stickers that talk about what it is and how it's different.

Um and then at the police station, we have uh we actually added four new charging stations over there, and we took the old ones from down the street and we use those as backups.

It's always nice to have a backup.

Um, and then we actually applied for a grant uh to put in a fast charging station over there, uh, knowing that fleet or sorry, the PD is the largest fleet within our fleet, if that makes sense.

So we need more infrastructure so that they can keep buying more electric vehicles.

It's kind of the uh field of dreams model, I guess.

Um this is Brennan.

I think everybody knows Brennan.

Um so last year we launched our first e-bike lending library.

Uh this is really a program designed to help residents test drive an e-bike for free.

And um we have had over 500 signups to date, uh, and it's picking up again now that the weather is nicer.

Um we really like this program because we think it's a good complement to the work that um is going on with the mobility plan.

So that's Bergen's team and public works helping to expand infrastructure.

This is a program that we hope complements that that work, and we know that's a long-term effort.

Um really, like I said, the goal is to try to get somebody to think could I get to work or could I go shopping using a bike here in Chapel Hill?

And we like e-bikes because we have a lot of hills in Chapel Hill.

Uh it's kind of tough otherwise.

Um we work with two local bike shops, Trek and uh the bicycle chain, and they manage and maintain these bikes.

And I'm very happy to announce, and again, credit to Brendan.

Um, we've just launched our staff side of this program.

So this month we've got staff e-bikes that have been sent out to our departments, and now they can choose if they want to jump on a bike as opposed to getting in a car to get somewhere.

So pretty cool.

Um a little bit more on the natural resources side of things.

This was our fifth year uh for the Leave Your Leaves campaign, and of course it's a good campaign because it helps support our ecosystem, our birds, our insects, our soil health.

Um, a tree expert told me, and this is what stuck with me.

He said, if you really want to think about why it helps, it's because leaves equal tree food.

So if you um leave the leaves, then they naturally uh degrade into the soil, and the trees can use those nutrients, and it's their food, but if we blow them away, we're taking the tree's food from it.

So I don't know, that kind of stuck with me.

Um we have had more than 200 signups this past fall.

Those are new sign-ups.

About 55% of those came uh from right here in Chapel Hill, which is typically uh what has happened over the last couple years.

Uh we partner with the New Hope Bird Alliance and uh keep Durham Beautiful, as well as the partners you see on the screen.

Um we estimate over 600 signups over the last three years, uh, but probably more than that because we know anecdotally that there are folks who don't take the time to pledge or grab a sign who are probably still doing this and they talk about it.

So all right.

Um this is my last section.

This is talking about the plan update.

So uh, like I said, uh, or maybe I didn't say this before, but every five years we have made a commitment to update our our climate action plan.

Um why do we want to do this?

Well, there are some things that change pretty frequently.

I've got a few of them on the screen here.

Number one, technology, um, just as an example.

Battery technology is so much uh farther along now than it was back in 2021.

Uh funding, uh, I hate to say it, but state and federal funding is so much less than it was in 2021.

Um let's see, federal policy.

So these are things we think about and also our utility partners, are they still sticking with their uh decarbonization commitments?

Because we know what they do has a really big impact on uh what our numbers look like.

So this is um an update that will not be a uh rewrite.

That's not the intention here.

Uh instead, what we want to do is um share about the progress we've made over the last five years.

Um we want to assess where we are relative to our targets, and I've talked a little bit about that tonight.

And then we want to sort of explore internally and with the community, what changes, if any, uh should we be making for the next five years to make sure we're still on track.

So this is my last slide.

Um this is the schedule.

So starting this month and moving into the summer, we will be doing uh public education and engagement on the plan update.

Uh again, really trying to focus on questions like what kind of programming has been working, not working, what kind of program would you like to see?

Also, how is climate change affecting you?

Uh, and are there things we can be doing about that?

Um August through October, that's when we'll analyze and assess what we've learned, and then we'll come back to you all in November to share uh a proposal.

Uh I also should say the engagement project website goes live this month, and I think you all are familiar with Engage, but we'll have a uh dedicated page for this project.

So with that, I will stop talking and see if you have any questions.

Thank you.

Questions?

Uh Councilmember Miller.

I'm gonna go just down.

So Councilmember Miller Fushi, followed by Councilmember Ryan.

Thank you for this presentation.

Um I think for all of us, top of mind is budget.

And um I saw that you all were unable to like reach one of your goals due to shortage of staff on one of the charts.

Um and so I'm trying to form this as a question.

So I guess I'll just direct, I'll be really interested in the upcoming budget um discussions to see um if we're able to fund something like that.

Um, how are we thinking about how we build out our infrastructure?

And I will hearken to Tropical Storm Chantel and the destruction of that infrastructure, and we saw where we built things with concrete versus asphalt.

Um, there was some stamped sustainability there.

I I think those so let me address the first question or the point you made.

Um I should clarify, we we still have the funding to rehire that position.

Okay.

Or at least we've got that in the budget, the proposed budget.

So the hope is that we'll be able to do that, maybe starting a process later this spring actually.

So we're funded, we just got to get the person in there.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So I didn't mean to make, I think I could sound more dire than it I intended it to be.

Um as far as planning for infrastructure, I can remember uh I wasn't part of the project team, but when that infrastructure was being planned for the the greenways.

Uh and I think the the area I'm most familiar with is um near the police, the old police station site because I go there a lot connected to the coal ash remediation project.

And um I remember one of the project managers saying specifically we asked them to try and design this to engineer this to be flood resistant.

And what I learned when I went out there was they said, you know, actually, when you look at parts of it, the the concrete itself and some of the the rock underneath, it actually held together pretty well.

But what we didn't anticipate um is all the land that disappeared just just to the side of it.

And so I think um one of the things that we're trying to think about, and and I'm not directly involved in this uh per se, but I think it's part of what public works and parks and rec and others are starting to think about or continuing to think about with um with engineers as they look to redesign is how much more uh do we need to fortify these areas so that if a storm hits, we're not just protecting the literal trail, but maybe the area that's next to it, which is just as important because as I'm sure we've all seen, some of these places have a little bit of a drop-off now with a protected barrier.

So I'm I'm not an expert there, but um I think that's part of the thinking.

I see our bike ped infrastructure as a huge um place to really concentrate a lot of our efforts on being able to reach some of our climate action goals.

And so my question is around what you all need to hear from us.

Um because this isn't siloed in terms of like how we're thinking about reaching our goals.

What do you all need to hear from us because we have so many budget constraints and we're not getting those federal dollars?

Um what are ways that we can, and you're probably not the right person, but um how would you how can we signal um more innovative ways of getting that infrastructure built out?

Yeah.

So I'm I'm probably not uh exactly the right person, like you said, but um one of the things that comes to mind is um the ways that we can uh rebrand existing infrastructure even and get excitement around from the community and maybe from outside funders thinking about wayfinding.

So we have uh uh a bike wayfinding strategy that was approved a few years ago.

There's now one in the downtown.

We're starting to reconnect conversations around um thinking about a pilot project and how um that could be transformative uh in terms of um thinking about uh spaces that are traditionally thought of as recreation and transforming that thought into it's it's um it's a transportation corridor, that type of thing.

So um there's more to say on that, but that's one thought that comes to mind as I think about your question.

Thank you.

Um and lastly, umlocating I'm making a comment, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna make the comment.

Allocating um right?

Um I really see an opportunity for us to think about how much we're allocating right now towards our bike ped infrastructure.

Um right now is just not enough with all the costs and inflation and all of that.

And I just feel that that is really hindering us from being able to reach our goals.

Um but we also have very limited funding.

Um but I just want to put out there that I'm gonna be really interested in seeing how we can allocate more funding in our budget so that we can continue to um attain our climate action goals.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Um Councilmember Ryan, followed by Councilmember Sharp.

Okay, that's a great segue.

Um so I noticed as I was looking through all the great information that you provided that our greenway projects are consistently lagging.

Um and I know I was told years ago that the Western branch of the Morgan Creek Trail was going to be started winter 24, and we're still we've had some trees tagged, but so um just do you know, is that more of a question for the mobility office?

I I'd be yeah, I can take it back.

I I don't have details though.

Okay, because it seemed like across the board all the projects are just are running behind, and I think um Councilmember Miller Fushi made a really good point.

I mean, those those greenways are an integral part of our resiliency and sustainability strategy of our complete community strategy or development strategy of our environmental strategy, they're really, really important.

Um, and I would agree with her that I'd like to see how we can accelerate that investment.

Um kind of a taking it up a notch.

So has anything changed about our goals from what I know you're not redoing the whole climate plan, but you know, as you say, we're five years into it, things have shifted.

I'm sure there may be places where we've been too ambitious and it just doesn't look like we're getting there, or where we can afford to be more ambitious.

How are you guys thinking at that high level?

We did um well, it's a good question.

So we did make one adjustment after the plan was adopted.

Um we uh initially had a 50% reduction was our 2030 target, and um it was brought to our attention and a lot the attention of many local governments in the United States um that we really need to be thinking about this from uh the perspective of our share of the uh carbon contributions globally as a as a nation that produces quite a bit of carbon.

And so there was something called a science-based target and adjustment that was made.

And so that number actually went from 50 to 59.31, I think it is.

And um it's a calculation, it's a formula, but it it accounts for the fact that uh we're not just setting targets, but we're setting targets here in the United States.

Um you're asking me also, I think are there things that have changed about what we thought we could do versus maybe where we think we should be heading now.

Yeah, and I can remember one of your metrics was the number of um different modes for commuting, for instance.

And I this is from a while ago, but just watching it initially with there was really great progress, and then it things level off, and so I don't know if that's a goal that gets changed or if we're still like, yeah, we want to do it, but yeah, I it's funny.

Somebody was asking me the other day uh why do we set just a general question?

Why do people set targets um that are so ambitious?

You know, doesn't that seem a little impractical if you haven't exactly mapped out how you're gonna get there?

Um of the things I'll say is that when we advocate at higher levels, it is helpful to have ambitious targets because we know we can't do this by ourselves.

Um we're asking our utility partners, when we're asking others who have more control over the things that lead to the emissions we're trying to mitigate.

Um it's nice.

And we, you know, other communities around the state are in the similar position where we are able to say this is our target, we know it's science-based, we know we need to reach it, we know it's ambitious, and we know we can't do it by ourselves.

Um so looking at the the teleworking or the the mode shift, that that's certainly something we probably will look at, although we've been pleasantly surprised to see that it didn't drop off completely after COVID.

So people are still, like I was saying before, the teleworking, the micromobility, those things are still showing up in the census data, which is good to see.

Um my personal feeling about some of that though, too, is that uh the infrastructure is so important because we can we can provide bike programs, we can um talk about it a lot.

But if if folks don't get up in the morning and say, I know it's easier for me to get on this bike and get from point A to point B than it is for me to get in the car and do the same thing, chances are they probably won't do it.

And I know I'm not saying anything y'all don't know, but it's just I think that's where the infrastructure investment over many years is so critical because they have to start to feel uh and make behavioral choices that are reflective of the infrastructure we have.

Well, and you get to that Paris tipping point, right?

Where nobody was riding a bike and now the whole the whole city is riding.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Um let me say it too, there your question is sort of at the heart of what we want to address and in the update as well.

Um and so getting back to the update.

So how how is engagement going to work?

How is policy setting going to work?

You know, how is that gonna go back and forth between the the organization and the council and the community?

How do you see that all interplaying?

We um so we know engagement's gonna be um well, it will be run through Rebecca's team.

So we will be, you know, attending, for example, we've got we'll be at the library on the 22nd.

There's a um a movie being shown that night on Earth Day.

Uh we'll be there tabling, for example.

That's that's one thing.

But we will be going to a lot of places and doing engagement at events where we know people will be gathered.

Um we'll be doing some combinations of e-bike promotion and climate uh uh climate action plan update together.

It's hoping that the bike is the attractive way to come to the table and talk to us about the plan.

Um so we're mapping that out right now.

Um as far as how we bring it back to you, uh we know we want to provide you with a structure that shows um how we can uh how you all can track or see that we're tracking progress towards your policy goals over time.

So um exactly how that looks, I don't have an answer for you tonight.

That's part of what we're going to try and come up with, but we think it's connected to I think something broad more broadly that the manager has talked to you about as well.

Okay, because I think this is it's reminding me we had a really good work session the other night on LUMO things where council actually reaffirmed the policy directions that we were doing, and um I found that a really good uh a really good exercise, and I think a good way for communicating with the community going forward for making sure that when you come back to us, we know well, we asked you to do this and you're doing it.

I'm can't ask you to do that because we didn't ask you to do that.

So I found that a really useful thing, and also so the community understands what council is trying to do, so that when you go out and engage with them and you say, what do you want?

You'll say, well, here are here are the things that the high level, this is where your council is trying to take you.

Um you're welcome to disagree with that, but just understand that that's the direction that we're moving.

So I think it would be really useful as we move forward in this whole process.

And I know this is just an update, it's not a whole revamp.

And I think that update, it kind of seems like there's some new things and there's a lot of reporting out.

It's kind of got two components to it.

But I think it would be really helpful as we move forward to make sure that we've that the places where you see the policy issues that we've been through the exercise of making sure that we're all on the same page and that we've really strongly affirmed or reaffirmed what's going on.

Before we get to that final step.

I think that's I think that that's super helpful.

I think the LUMO example worked really well.

That makes sense.

And I get let me just say too, I don't think I described it very well or uh provided enough confidence.

We we feel very good about the plan that was adopted in 2021, and so I don't mean to come to you and sort of suggest we're we're talking about major overhauls here.

I think we're we're gonna be tweaking things here and there where it makes sense, but as far as the broader policy and the focus and the things that we think will continue to deliver on good outcomes, those categories, those actions are still largely um intact, we think.

Okay.

Yeah, and I get when councilwoman Miller said, hey, maybe our infrastructure, and as you mentioned, maybe that's a place we need to be elevating the policy realm.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Sharp, and then I'll come this way.

Um Mayor Pro Tem.

Thank you.

Um the electric bicycle um program, I did stop in a truck uh this week or last week because my gym has relocated to over there, and that's a nice pairing.

Uh I saw the standard bike there available.

Do you have other types of bikes that are there?

Because I saw in your example the trike, the um the cargo, but they just have that one there.

We we do, and if you'll I should have talked about that.

Um we do off so at that specific location.

My memory is that we have the standard and the trike.

A track.

Um, and then at the other location, we've got the cargo and the standard.

Okay.

All right.

And then what is available for the staff to use what types of bikes?

Uh all three.

Okay.

Nice.

And um let's see.

Oh, how many electric vehicles would you say were in the fleet in the PD fleet, and then if you know overall?

But I'm really curious about how many at the police department.

I'm smiling because I can't remember the exact number that's in the PD fleet.

I can tell you that the fleet itself is up to what this year's purchases, I think it's 7% of the total fleet is electric.

And of course, we have hybrids, we have um biofueled powered vehicles as well.

Um so that's not to say the rest are all are all just traditional, but we are out seven percent, and that number has almost doubled each of the last couple of years.

Okay.

And with the location.

Oh, that's gonna be a comment.

I'm not gonna do that.

Um can I so I'm gonna turn this one into a comment.

So is your department working with other departments?

Probably so.

Uh one in particular is several of us just heard from um transit about the multimodal um pathway that they're putting in alongside um the NSBRT.

And that that is where we've been able to get some.

So are those ways?

That's a leading question.

But are those ways that you are you are working with our department with other departments?

I mean, um, I would I would give more credit to Bergen's team on that uh particular example.

But I can tell you in the case of um well, in the case of transit, they they do their own thing, and we just sit back and smile because they're such a good leader on electric vehicles and support vehicles.

Um it's they're a great partner in that it's sort of like we just sort of cheer from the side.

Um but in the case of uh fleet we work more closely and we are involved in the decision making process year to year on replacement.

And so uh the process is is one where, for example, we look every year, can we replace the vehicle with an electric vehicle?

Do we have that option or would it work operationally?

If if the answer is yes, we try to purchase it if we can't make that work.

Would they we then go to well, what is the the next most efficient vehicle we could buy?

Is it a hybrid or something to that effect?

Um and that works for a lot of the passenger vehicles and and trucks and other things.

It's not as easy with the mid-size, the the larger vehicles, the heavy duties because there just aren't as many options out there.

But this refuse truck that we're bringing in, this electric refuse truck is the first one we'll have in that class, and so we'll pilot that and see how it goes.

Very cool.

Thank you.

Councilmember Nollert or Councilmember McCullough.

Am I skipping over you?

Well, all I would say is uh I I am one of the 500.

Uh it was a sick program.

I enjoyed riding the bike.

So Councilmember McCullough.

Yeah.

Um I'll get to my first thing first.

But yeah, my tenant was one of the people, and and he really he really loved it.

Um but the the fact is that for some of those people, e-bikes are still out of reach, and it'd be interesting to figure out if we could do some sort of program where we would where we would partner with um somebody and and be able to get discounts on e-bikes.

Um that we can get more people on the permanently.

I I agree, and I think last time I was here, Councilmember Miller Fushi, you asked about sort of a similar question related to landscape equipment, electric.

So we've got, I didn't talk about it tonight because it's not fully baked yet, but there's an electrify the triangle program that we're working on, similar to the Solarize the Triangle program, and we're still trying to figure out if bulk purchasing is possible, but that might be a way to get at both of the interests that you all shared.

Wonderful.

And my next question is why was that NCDOT funding for greenways delayed and um is it that delay cast in stone until 2031?

That I will need to check with Bergen on.

Okay.

Thanks.

Yep.

Councilmember Councilmember Rivers.

Yeah, thanks for the update.

Um I have a I guess two or three questions.

First for the e-bike program.

What I'm concerned about the safety and like norms around e-bikes.

Do we offer any type of like training or safety when people pick up the bikes?

The um each of the shops offers uh a training before somebody gets on it for the first time.

So um they they kind of ride it around and get familiar with it before they um take it away.

And it would be great if like uh I know UNC is also also looking to expand their e-bike usage.

I'm not sure if they have some type of training.

So if there's any coordination there, that would be great.

Okay.

Um I also like the comments that council member Ryan said about maybe coming back to us where we're working session around like the goals and policy aspects of it.

Um you tell us a little bit uh about the resiliency hubs.

So I was like going through the paperwork.

Like, yeah, I just like to hear more about those.

So um the hubs, I can't remember if I've I think I've told you all this, but we got a there was a $500,000 planning grant that we got um we and other local governments, and it was for 17 resiliency hubs.

That money was um uh frozen initially and then canceled.

That grant was canceled.

So um, but uh Central Pines, we did have a second grant, and Central Pines has um it's a smaller grant.

They've offered each of the partners who were part of the larger grant the chance to apply for a grant within a grant, so to speak, um, to see if we could do uh sort of one of the buildings within our jurisdiction.

So there will be two total buildings done of the 17, and we don't yet know who's going to win the grant.

Um we applied and um I think everyone else did too, so we'll see.

But the hope is that we might get some funding to help do that.

And then I guess the final maybe for Ted also is there a way that we can think about the overlap between our stormwater work and our climate action plan in terms of like recovery after climate events, and like I'm not sure what type of coordination happens there right now.

Well, my initial reaction, Councilmember Rivers, is there's definitely a relationship.

Uh climate impacts grow, um severity of storms happens, frequency changes, uh though not always increasing.

Sometimes we have seasonality that's disrupted and it's we're in a drought right now.

So the bottom line is impacts are happening and and we need to understand those.

Um I'm not sure that I can uh connect the dots between the work of our um climate action program in the area of carbon reduction, uh, because those those targets are very clearly about emissions and and our facilities and fleet that relate to emissions, different sort of metrics on flood damage and and water volume.

Um so I don't know that we've done a lot to sort of connect that, but we are certainly aware uh that we need a more resilient stormwater system uh and we are actively pursuing uh additional monitoring and modeling uh as part of our approach to that so that we can be more responsive as the uh climate data evolve.

Yeah, I I think in our last meeting there was some desire amongst council for more green infrastructure, like rain garden so much at like neighborhood scale.

And it'd be good if that was connected to like our climate action plans, you know, in some type of way.

So there'd be overlap there.

So like, you know, those type of maybe low-hanging fruit.

Well, nothing's low-hanging fruit.

Or we could try to think about that type of coordination.

Uh on that point, I I will say staff has uh reconvened uh following your uh work session, and we've uh I guess uh lined up a a response uh to that input and uh um we we have a good idea of of what we plan to report back to you about, and that does include uh several of those uh ideas uh in terms of um grant opportunities, technical assistance, uh uh small scale projects, those are all included in what we're planning to report back on.

And I did just recently hear back as well from NC State who uh uh sort of started the ball rolling on what it what it might take for them to do or review.

So we're we're we're beginning to move forward on the the items we discussed.

Yeah, thank you.

Councilmember McMahon.

Thank you for uh this is great.

I'm excited about all this stuff.

I have a few questions that are specific, but then also more overarching.

Um thanks for bringing up the resilience hub.

Uh Councilmember Rivers.

I was wondering uh thinking about this idea of resiliency overall as a higher focus or priority that might be different than uh 2021.

So when you talk about the policy things.

I know our community will was coming together through mutual aid and through other types of activities.

My question is where the town can take a lead in coordinating those efforts and and how if it's if it's if we're investing in in resiliency, this might be an area for even without a grant for resiliency hub, what can we do?

Um not with just interjecting money, but coordinating among community partners.

So I think community partnership is something that may not be as pronounced in all of these efforts.

And I think that uh it might be a place to look at how we could beef that up.

Uh another example of that is the alert system.

My understanding is a question and a statement.

My understanding is the alert systems are good because they give us data, but it's couched in here as a response system.

And I my my question is we have the sensors there, which are good to collect data, but if it's an emergency response system, where does that data go?

How does it I mean do you sign up to the sensor text alert?

Like I mean, I really think there's a a fuller question of what's that full response system if those sensors are supposed to act in that capacity.

Yeah, it's uh it's a great question.

So uh when I when we say response, um what we mean right now is really more of an internal process.

So that's where um our emergency management team would get an alert on because uh a water level on one of our creeks, the threshold was tripped.

And usually at that level historically we've seen down uh downstream flooding, for example.

So the response in that case is is more internal than it is external.

Um we are also looking at ways of uh putting these uh sensors and their data on public systems like Feynman is an example.

Um that's a system that anybody can uh go to online and I think set alerts for locations near them, for example.

That's not a perfect solution, I realize.

Um there are other things we've also considered um related to phone-related notices and things like that, but that's a little further down the road.

So for for now, um it's an internal focus, but in the long run it could be more potentially.

Yeah, and I think it's just important to continue to uh manage expectations with the community, and then if we have these sensors and we're talking about them in emergency response, how how you know we have a lot of flash flooding too, so it's kind of like how can you how can you get ahead really quickly?

And I think with Chantal, we might have some room to think about hyper-local alert systems that aren't relied on your random Google search for how much rain is coming.

We might be able to develop our own hyper-local system.

I mean, if we're thinking about investments that are going to save lives and prevent property damage, I feel like there's a lot of work that you're doing there that can be dovetailed with emergency response and and public works that could really provide a hyper-local, very targeted um resource to people to help save lives and prevent property damage.

So we can I would love to, as we go through this process, to think about how a good example of something big that's changed since 2021 is this focus on resiliency, particularly for for floods.

Um the CPAs, the CPACE program too is something I look forward to hearing more.

Um that ties in there as well.

So I think uh as we talk about how we're going to assist business owners, um I can see that in there and just thinking about how else that can be expanded under this resiliency topic.

Because if we're talking about spending money, I wanted to go to where we're gonna see the best bang for the buck on that.

Uh going back to the idea of dovetailing the stormwater, we've been talking about these programs that Carborough and Raleigh and other folks have about helping people with technical assistance in their own homes and their yards, um, developing some of these things that are in the plan that say helps with climate flood risks.

Um thinking about how it's all coordinated with the multiple lens of your work, but also public works.

So that's another good example of how making sure this work is integrated across the board.

Another example of that for me is transit.

I know there's a focus, you I didn't read the whole plan again before tonight, but the document you gave us, the transit stuff was very focused on greenways, which is great.

At the same time, I think we really can benefit from telling the whole story of the investments we make in transit here.

And and I know transit's doing their own thing, and you're what you're watching from the sidelines, but I I think there's an opportunity here to integrate this better because their successes should be your successes, and it's the whole town's successes.

So capturing everything we're doing as a town, not necessarily the Office of Sustainability or Public Works or uh, you know, parks and rec.

So figuring out how you can we can capture all the work that we're doing.

Um so I didn't see transit in there.

While we're on the topic of transit, um I don't think we're a GoPass partner with Co Triangle.

Um we could look at ways to get hooked up with Go Triangle so that town staff could could ride the bus to Raleigh or ride the bus to Durham outside Chapel Hill Transit jurisdictions.

That's something we could um look at as a transit investment uh regarding uh the LUMO rewrite, you talk about working on that.

One specific thing that comes to mind is someone was talking to me about permitting for solar panel installation on my residential home.

Are those the kind of are you working on those kind of things with the planning staff or what's an example of your work with planning staff?

So um one recent example is um streamlining the the process.

We we've actually worked in the past with planning to streamline the permitting process for rooftop solar.

Uh we're now shifting with that same approach to EV charging.

And um we we know that in some cases uh some permits have taken longer than they should have, and so that's where we're working not only with planning but with building and development services and the other players who are in that review process to try and make that as streamlined as possible.

Um so that's that's one example.

The other thing that we're doing is we're looking at um a model sustainable development code uh that's put out through the APA and looking at at what they recommend and comparing that to what we're trying to do with this.

And the good news is a lot of what we have and where we're headed are already embedded in that work, but it's it's an exercise of sort of going going at that together and trying to identify code um improvements that could be uh that are that are already part of the best practices in that code.

Great.

And this is I'm might be a little too specific, but I didn't know if it's legally possible or if it's advantageous to us at all, or to what extent we're doing it as far as the requirements that we have for our vendors.

Um I keep talking about this idea of procurement updating how you know who we partner with, who we invite to use town dollars to do work in town.

Maybe there's opportunities there to make sure that we're evaluating them for how they're hold upholding some of our values in climate change and resiliency.

That's an idea of something I think about.

But overall, I love this work and I just see this great opportunity.

I I feel like before Chantal and I may I may have been alone, but I really felt like this climate change work we're doing was for the far off future.

But I think we're now at a moment where everyone realizes that it's come home to roost and there's great opportunities for the work you're doing and then making sure that it's interconnected and intersected with all the departments in town.

So I look forward to more.

Thank you.

Can I just say one thing, Mayor?

Um that is our intention is to try to uh n to showcase the work of all departments and to highlight that.

Um so I think I might have been a little too glib when I was talking about transit.

We certainly work with them uh but I take your point.

Yeah.

Um yeah, thank you for this presentation.

Um just I think two quick questions.

Um what's the next steps on COLASH?

Good question.

I'm so the the next immediate step is in fact tomorrow.

Um we have a consultant, an engineering firm that the town has hired um for on call services related to Chantal response, and we are going to talk about getting their help to um uh assess the feasibility, the engineering feasibility of uh the retaining wall system for the cap and cover scenario that we talked with you all about.

And the the the goal there is just to again continue to try and figure out the engineering feasibility of what we were talking to you about um the last time we were before you on that topic.

So um that's the next immediate step.

Okay.

Um and then I guess after tomorrow, um, is there kind of uh and I I'm not asking for super specific, but is there some sort of timeline of you know yeah, I was I was too literal.

Um maybe I was too literal.

I uh so the next step is is um I think we may have shared a version of this with you.

We plan to do the same thing we said, which was uh come back to you with some visual scenarios of how the site could be redeveloped under a cap and cover using the land uses that are permitted by the state.

So this is a feasibility step to make sure that that would work.

And we'll also bring in Brian Peterson to get his help to do some um some sketches that will uh provide you all with some concepts that you could look at.

And so is there a step in there where we kind of talk about the uses.

I know that there are limit there are limits.

Um but I guess I'm just wondering if there's a step where you can elicit from council what particular uses they're interested in, and maybe I'm not sure if you already have that information or not, so just correct me if I'm confused, but I feel like um it sounds like a lot of effort to come back with different scenarios when maybe you could just figure out what the council interest is in terms of uses and then do that.

Um but I and uh not that we wouldn't want to see some kind of options, I guess, but like it just seems like if there are things that council can just give you some kind of initial guidance, maybe it streamlines a bit.

It could.

Um we could certainly talk about that.

Um I can also ask Brian too.

I mean, it could be I guess um when I say sketches, I think they're pretty high level still.

And so it may just be that what Brian created.

Like a development parcel versus where you have to do other stuff.

Exactly.

It wouldn't be too too set in stone more really just uh tools for you all to react to so that you could actually answer, I think the question that you're I see.

So it's not, I mean, I understand what you're saying now.

So it's not about putting all the uses, the potential uses or like having certain ones, it's just about where you can even do something.

It's it's that well, it's it's more than that.

We were thinking um it would be where you can do things, but also if you did, you know, rec courts, this is where they might go, and this is what they could look like.

Um but we were imagining that that would be something where you all could give us feedback.

So not that it would be something you would ask for, but really just a way to have that conversation.

Okay.

Yeah.

I just didn't well, yeah, and you all obviously can decide that, but I just didn't want you to be doing tons of different renderings if we could tell you what we'll check with Brian.

What the uses would be.

Um my other question is um given that Carolina North is kind of you know, it's really picking up, I guess, and you know the work on it, um, but we won't have that point at which, you know, as the regulator, we would be able to look at you know, environmental concerns there or something that would make a lot of sense there.

I'm just wondering if we're thinking about anything that we want to ask for early on so that we have more of a chance of potentially getting it.

Um from a design standpoint.

I I have no, I don't have anything in mind.

I'm just thinking like, you know, I know there are some streams in there.

Are any of them a problem?

Like are any of them flooding out the neighbors, or um is there some sort of environmental sustainability component that we think would be really smart to put there and that would be like a win-win, or I don't know.

I you know, I I don't know what I don't know, but I'm just wondering if there are things that we should be asking them to consider early on, since we it's not gonna come to us or to you all for official review.

I I think I'd want to consider that question a little more.

I um yeah, I want to get back to you on that one.

Okay.

Great.

Um there members of the public wishing to speak.

Looks like sorry.

Theo said he enjoyed the bike.

Oh, did you have to do have a question?

Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

Okay, I was just debating if it's worth asking.

Could you explain why it isn't the case that we just say like um uh we we want to cap it, uh do an RFQ, and if it costs too much, we just won't go forward.

Like why why do we need uh I I'm I'm reminded of the scene in Spaceballs where they're like, why are you always planning?

Just go.

And then it backfires in the scene.

So like I'm expecting the answer to be that it's not a good idea, but I just don't understand why we need to go through it because it seems like we've been talking about this forever, so like why don't we just say like this is the option, someone bring us an estimate and then go do it.

Well, we it's a fair question.

Um we uh we have a general sense of the costs.

The feasibility study can help us refine those costs a little bit for the cap and cover.

Um it can also tell us uh a little bit more about functionally how the retaining wall system could work.

So um you know, sort of in a really crude way, um for some of the planning purposes, it's it's sort of a big monolith, right?

But we I don't think we that's not necessarily the aesthetic that we would want necessarily.

So um the feasibility study could help us explore uh um different uh terrace levels, things like that.

I'm a little out of my depth right now because we haven't had that conversation, but I think it gives us um more flexibility in terms of the design, which will help us narrow in on the cost.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um council comments.

Councilmember Miller Frischy?

Yeah, just one last thing.

I just want to piggyback a bit off of what you were saying.

Um council member.

Um about resilience and thinking about um tropical storms.

Um I'm wondering how we're gonna be thinking about resilience as it pertains to these extremes that we're seeing in heat as well as um cold and the real impacts that it has on our community.

And right now, like we have a pretty robust system when it comes to our unhoused community members and being able to, you know, find spaces for safety, because heat is a is a real thing.

Um but I'm afraid that with these rising temperatures, what that means for our grid, and ultimately our community if we start seeing um rolling blackouts and stuff like that, where families everybody's gonna be, you know, dealing with the heat or whatever.

So just throwing that out in terms of us for us to think about in the future around what resilience means for our community.

Yeah, I'll just say real quickly, I'm glad you brought up heat and you all saw the plan from Orange County and your consent agenda.

That's something we're looking forward to working on, and it will, you know, to to the point about what's new from a policy perspective.

I think that's an area of emphasis that might be uh something we want to work on, obviously, for the next five years.

Councilmember Rivers, followed by Councilmember Ryan.

Or did I make up that you wanted to speak?

As the heat plan is good, I'm using it in class.

So cool.

Yeah, thanks.

It's nice to see.

Thank you.

Um Councilmember Ryan, followed by Councilmember McCullough.

Yeah, just real quickly want to just um echo some of the things that people have said about community efforts and how we get get those working.

Um the small scale efforts like what Michael Dupree has done in in uh Carbero, I think are really important.

Um I was glad that we're looking at the Carolina land and water fund conservation ease of the program.

I know I know there's some ten on property that's basically swamp, and it would be lovely to get a little money for that and make it permanently conserved.

And then just that final policy interest in making sure I think you've heard some things around tonight, especially around resilience, maybe that biking infrastructure, but maybe those are things that as you do the plan update, there's just a little bit of a there's a policy addition to what you currently are doing.

Thank you.

Councilmember McCullough.

Yeah.

Um, I'm very excited.

I'm I'm looking forward to the update.

Um I'm looking forward, especially I think to the engagement.

Um as council member um McMahon was saying, I think that it's McMahon.

Um that there are still well educated and informed people in this town who just don't still understand the nuances of how this problem came about, where the sources and and how um urgent action is.

And and so I'm I'm hoping that we use that engagement process to really do more um education to help imbue this sense of urgency without this, you know, without the paralyzing fear that can come with it.

Umphasizing the the um sense of of um action and control as a way to diminish climate anxiety.

Um but also I think there are too many people who who have gotten to the point where they think that it's well it's already here, therefore there's nothing I can do, and uh and to get people to understand that that's that's not true.

We're we're keep everything we do is keeping it from getting as bad as it could be.

We are gonna do damage prevention, and so um just some things that I think about when I talk when I think about this whole engagement process and and getting us to get more people on board and and more people supporting the work that we we need to do.

So thank you.

And I am I am very um pleased with our staff, and I hope we replace Elizabeth ASAP.

Our sustainability person, Elizabeth.

That was a little hot.

She whimpered up a little bit.

No attacking other members for the dais.

I'm kidding.

Um thank you so much for this.

Um I think and it won't be coming out of your office, it will be coming out of the communication because you talked about engagement, Rebecca, Rebecca is now housed in the communication office, correct?

And so one thing that I want to stress again, and I want to share this with the with the manager, is that um the communication is such that the community understands um how this is happening.

I know that we are working on this, but being clear with how the community can engage, where they can learn more.

I really appreciate the wayfinding uh that you mentioned.

We need more of it.

Um, and I'm glad that it's that there's uh a start in your area for for bikes and and pedestrians as a means of of commuting.

So that's really good.

I'm so sorry, I can tell that I'm rambling.

What I want to say is that we continue to communicate.

There are a lot of great things that your office is doing that I think that the public just doesn't have a sense of, and so the more that we can amplify that.

Um as we went, um, I was out recently and I um saw something that was shared about work that we're doing.

I would like to see more of that, especially in your area, because I would like for the public to know how far ahead um we are, then we overshot, which is awesome.

And then we're gonna have to keep doing that, and we need their help.

Um, so it comes down to communication.

Thank you.

Um thank you for all the excellent work.

I know um it's a very small team and you all do a lot, um, given I think pretty uh minimal capacity.

Um I think um I do feel like I guess for me as one of nine, I feel like there are some policy shifts that I'm interested in, but I also don't assume that I know enough to know they're the right ones.

So I feel like I would really, really like to have that conversation with you and the board and um I think I guess my concern about the timeline is that I think um if the engagement is happening, but the council hasn't decided kind of where we want to go, then it feels like we're asking people questions and then we go somewhere totally different.

I don't think we're gonna go somewhere totally different.

That's an overstatement.

Um but then we say like, well, actually we really want to be leaning into resiliency and we want to be looking at these other things, and then the public often says, Well, why didn't you listen to us?

Why are you doing this other thing?

Well, it's not that we weren't listening, it's that we didn't have any part in figuring out what we wanted to ask people.

And so I think that is a process issue.

It's not uh intentional or um, you know, I just think it's a process issue.

And so what I'm hoping is that we can have a really good policy conversation, then let you all figure out the best way to engage the public and what questions you can ask to get at the things we kind of want to test or that we want people to think about.

And I think that way it um it hopefully would keep us out of the position of looking like we're ignoring the public when really I think it's just we're talking about maybe two different things.

So I think having that policy conversation first, I think would just be very valuable in the type of feedback we get back.

Um so that would be my plug for if we can just have a little bit of a different system, and then I think too, we could stay at a policy level instead of diving into some of the details that we often do when we see it last, where then we're like, oh, okay, well then can you tell me about this tiny piece?

And I would rather us stay at a policy making level and then you help us be smart about those choices, I guess, and give us those options and tell us like, well, guys, yeah, you can do that, but like you really don't want to.

And we'll be like, thank you.

You know, we don't we don't want to do dumb stuff.

Um, but I think that would I guess I think that would hopefully make us move faster overall and would help us engage the public, I think, in hopefully a more meaningful way.

Um because I do hear an interest overall of kind of pivoting a bit to resiliency and um mitigation, not just carbon reduction, which I think is really important, but I also think it's like we're c we're past the point where we can where we can reduce carbon enough to like not be in trouble.

So I think we still want to do both, but um that would be my request.

But I think you all are doing amazing work.

I think you're doing really important things.

I also agree that I think engaging we have such a small piece that we actually control, and so having a real thoughtful kind of what are other folks doing, or what could we do to engage the community even more?

Um and I think like council member McMahon said, how can we also help with um coordinating some of the things, the good work that's happening out there that they could use some help helping each other to?

Um so thank you very much for this work.

Um and we'll certainly also be looking forward to the coal ash conversation, which I know I'm sure you will be also very happy to never have to talk about that again at some point.

Um, but we want to get that uh fixed as much as you do.

So thank you very much.

Thank you all very much.

I don't know if I go so far as to say we're looking forward to it.

Sorry.

Oh, looking forward is maybe yeah, overstatement.

Hoping to get it done.

Um we have one more item, which is our item number sever 17, which is our public hearing um for Chapel Hill Ventures LLC incentive agreement.

And David Putnam has been waiting patiently to bring us that information.

Can y'all hear me alright?

Excellent.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is David Putnam.

My colleague John lowered this for me.

I appreciate that.

Not as height gifted as him.

I'm your economic development director, and I'm bringing to y'all today a project I think is a presents an opportunity for you guys to invest in.

And I think it's a good one at that.

So this slide uh sort of outlines the deal of what we're talking about.

Um Chapel Hill Ventures LLC, commonly referred to as the Rosemary Hotel Group, right?

Um they're proposing a new capital investment of around 28 million dollars.

Uh they would help activate uh corner of downtown that has laid dormant since some prior approvals that y'all assigned to it.

Um and the project is proposing to create 35 jobs with a range of 40,000 to 112,000 average wage.

Um then for the towns part in this opportunity.

Um the current negotiated deal is parking credits not to exceed 280,000 over five-year period.

Um so annually, we would break that up and they'd be performance-based.

Um what that translates to and what the client needs is 90 spaces at a discounted rate across that five-year period.

Um they would certainly have to provide evidence of the investments that they're making to qualify for the full credit amounts.

With capital-intensive heavy projects, I always like to demonstrate the projected cash flow and what that means for this project is accumulation of some upfront costs that are associated with the project involving a land swap that uh the town council had formerly approved.

That's that $430,000 uh in 2026.

And I'll also add this is in thousands, um, so the chart's not misleading.

It's not $430, it's $430,000.

And then after that, uh the green bar that's raising uh that first list $219,000.

That is a combination of both parking revenues that we are forecasting for the project on those 90 spaces, and the property tax revenues that are anticipated per the project's performance schedule.

The red bar that is below the green bar is the incentive or the investment that y'all are proposing to make, or I'm suggesting y'all uh consider.

And then the orange line is the cumulation of all the revenues versus the expenses related to the project over the life of the project.

So by 2036, for example, you could estimate a 2.6 million dollar you know cash flow performance over the course of those performance years and periods of this project.

So just a quick summary of what investing in project periodic looks like in project periodics, the project code name we assigned this proposal uh ahead of presenting it to y'all today.

And that looks like uh helping activate a dormant block, of course, um providing customers the parking deck and increasing the revenues at that parking deck, um, increasing the tax base and uh making y'all some money to spend on some really cool initiatives that you have, like say, you know, housing and environmental resiliency.

Uh and then it also provides jobs for the community.

Um the project also it housed within activating a dormant block.

There is a kind of a pocket park that is scheduled, harking back to the prior entitlements of the project and that conditional zoning.

Um town council awarded it.

Uh there would be a park delivered for downtown that's adjacent to the old town hall.

So the project profile really, you know, why I'm presenting it to y'all today as an economic development project is that it has experienced significant uh disruption related to cost increases and construction increases.

Um the project is working to recruit new investors and new capital sources.

Um this does involve a land swap that I had mentioned earlier of 208 Pritchard Av, um, which y'all would be in receipt of after this exchange.

Uh and then the difference of that value is that 430,000 that I had described in the chart before.

Some important notes for y'all to consider as you think about making this decision.

Um the town council approved the conditional rezoning for the site in 2021.

Um in 2023, town council approved uh the manager to exercise a land swap opportunity on the site and the project.

Um as I said earlier, the project has the potential to activate old town hall and the areas around it with a pocket park.

Um and obviously the project has struggled to you know put shovels in the dirt leading up to this point, and we feel like this can be an excellent motivator for the project to actually put the next steps in action.

To talk a little bit about the location of the investment.

Um that is shown here, and you can see some of the elements that I've been talking about in the image displayed.

As with any economic development project, we look at competitiveness as a really important factor.

Um we have evaluated um evidence from the project, and we feel like this is a competitive project.

Um they have cited other areas that they're looking to make investments if y'all do not approve this opportunity today.

Those include Atlanta, Georgia, Providence, Rhode Island, and then Cleveland, Ohio.

So uh my recommended action for y'all today is to approve resolution 2026 415 R7, uh, which would offer incentives of an in-kind parking credit and an amount not to exceed and up to 280,000 to be paid in that five annual payment uh credit amount not to exceed $56,000 per year.

Uh and this would be based upon capital investment and performance standards of the project.

Thank y'all very much.

Thank you.

Council questions?

Councilmember Ryan.

Has anyone looked at whether this will impact the point at which the deck is paying for itself?

I mean it affects it positively.

Uh we haven't crunched the full comprehensive numbers, but it affects it positively because this is adding to long-term tenancy potential of the deck, which we've not subscribed any of right now.

Um I think it would be supportive of helping us reach a you know a sustainable place at the deck, yeah.

Yeah, I know that um when we were crunching the numbers on the deck many, many years ago, there was a kind of a pneumatic relationship between how much you're doing your daily and how much you're doing your long term, and that the long term are good, they're a good base, but they're not really making you all that much money.

So I just want to make sure I I generally support this kind of incentive.

I think it makes sense, but I do want to make sure that we're not nibbling away at the apple on how we're gonna actually get that deck to sustainability.

Councilmember Ryan, I think we have have enough plenty of room right now for these sort of lease arrangements, but I take your point and we'll be launching the parking study very shortly and having some good conversations with the consultant about kind of what that place is number might look like and bring that back to you.

Okay, thank you.

Councilmember Nollard?

Uh I'd like to move the resolution.

I'm assuming there's no one from the public wishing to speak.

Tammy.

Um move by council member Nollert, seconded by council member Miller Fuchee.

Any discussion?

Mayor.

Before you take the vote, we do need to open and close a public hearing.

Oh yes.

Move we open the public clearing.

Second.

Motion to open the public hearing by council member McCullough, seconded by Mayor Partan Barry.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

There is still a motion on the floor for approval of the resolution.

Is there anything else that we need to do?

Closed.

I move that we close the public hearing.

Move by Councilmember Barry, seconded by Councilmember Miller Fushi.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Motion on the floor.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Very much.

And we hope it comes out of the ground soon.

Okay.

We have appointments to the Awasa Water and Sewer Authority Board of Directors.

This evening we are pleased to announce the appointment of Susanna Dancy and Judith Miller to the board.

We appreciate everyone who applied for this position.

At this point, yes.

Just before you closes, I decided.

Sure.

But I didn't want to.

I just want to see.

Oh.

On the appointment.

Oh.

Well, we're about to end.

So I just want to make sure you will finish.

Oh, oh, yeah, go ahead.

Yes.

Yes, ma'am.

So Monday I was invited by the Office of the Provost to attend a session, a discussion on what I got wrong and what I learned.

And so I want to bring that lesson forward to this evening.

The mayor was correct in the email that was sent out by the manager regarding the consent and whether we wanted it.

And I completely missed that.

And so I wanted to acknowledge that and apologize in any way if I put any like shadow on the process of our transparency with this.

And just you know, send my apologies to my colleagues for that.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I'll throw in that I missed it too.

There's a lot of emails.

Thank you for that.

And we all uh hope to follow your lead in acknowledging when we have made mistakes and also supporting each other as a board.

So thank you very much for that.

Um okay, council.

Um we have a closed session.

So um uh Mayor Pro Tem Berry.

Yes.

Motion to go into closed session under general statute 14318.11a6 to discuss a personnel matter.

Move by uh councilmember Barry.

I mean Mayor Pro Tem Barry seconded, but you can you tell I'm getting tired.

Um second by Councilmember Nollert.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Um the meeting is recessed, and we will try to quickly get across the hall.

Thank you, everybody.