Good evening, everyone.

Uh welcome to the June seventeenth meeting of the Chapel Hill Town Council.

We are very glad to have you join us.

Um as a note to the clerk, Councilmember Miller Fushi will not be joining us tonight.

Um council members, before I continue, we have a suggestion or a question consider um to consider regarding tonight's meeting agenda, which currently includes three discussion items in a closed session.

Um last night the planning commission discussed the LUMO item, which includes fifty slides.

Um and it took them uh between three and four hours.

Um so based on a conversation with the manager, um we'd like you to consider a couple of options for managing our agenda.

Um the first option would be to go into closed session immediately following the complete community item, which would allow um the related staff for closed session um and consultants who are on hand for that meeting to go home at a reasonable hour.

Um we can then come back into council chamber to start the lumo topic um and potentially complete it on Monday.

Um the second option would be to go into closed session immediately following the complete community item and then hold off on the entire LUMO discussion and start fresh on Monday.

Um thoughts.

Uh Councilmember Ryan.

So uh Taz is a superman.

It was an amazing reading last night if you guys have a chance to look at the video.

Um it was super informative.

It took a really, really, really long time.

And it's very complicated and interrelated.

Um so my preference would be to just put it on Monday.

Um, Mayor Patel.

Thank you.

I received the request after the time that I go dark, um, in preparation for this meeting.

So uh when I saw it uh please understand.

I that's a regardless, so didn't have to say that.

I would like for us we have our staff who are prepared to present to us this evening.

And I would like for us to start that if we need to stop at a certain point, so be it.

But I would like to hear from our staff what they have prepared for us.

No, um I'm open to hearing others.

But I would like to open the discussion.

Yeah, I would like if we did it on Monday, we would meet normal time at six o'clock and that we worked out the details on that.

That's up to us and the staff.

You would notice a special meeting and choose the time.

Yeah.

Unless we continue to a date and time certain.

Thank you, manager.

Oh, uh-huh.

Okay.

Is there a world in which we can see how we get through the rest of the stuff and then or do we have to decide this right now?

We certainly can.

It means that then that staff is sure.

Sitting here and then maybe doesn't need to be here, but that is not it's something that certainly has happened before.

Um I think I would maybe frame the question a little bit that I don't think we're gonna get through all of it tonight.

So the question is I think would you like to divide it in two or would you like to tackle it all at one time?

I don't necessarily see a world in which we're getting through the number of agenda items that we have, and then even if we divide it in half of what the planning commission did, I we are still going, I think a little bit unreasonably long mayor pretend.

Mayor, how long did the meeting go last night?

Four hours.

Okay.

Given that, once again, I would like for us to start tonight because we are then considering going as long as if we'd like to be as thorough as the planning commission, four hours.

So could we consider getting started and then picking up also I did see a message from um council member Fushi?

Is she able to join on Monday?

Did she say that?

I haven't heard from her.

Okay.

Oh I have at some point had to stop paying attention to that.

Sorry.

Okay.

Sorry, sorry.

So that would be my recommendation for us to at least get started.

We can agree on a time for cutoff.

But why set us ourselves up for that length of a meeting?

Uh and replicate what happened with the planning commission.

Councilmember McMahon?

Yeah, um, I uh I anticipated a Wednesday potentially being on the calendar, but not a Monday.

So I had a Father's Day trip planned, and I'd really um would not like to cancel that for Monday.

So um we if you all want to meet on Monday, that's fine by me.

But I am not gonna be able to make it.

Taz, how's Wednesday for you?

Yeah, it any time next week is fine for me.

Um I don't technically serve at the pleasure, but what whatever you guys need.

Let's not be unreasonable.

Um so that would be the 24th.

Um Mr.

Voorhees, any input on the Wednesday versus Monday?

Well my general preference for the whole thing is to you know try to get started and just see kind of where we land.

Uh and then if you want to continue, continue to uh an agreed upon time to the best of your ability, that'd be great.

Um Wednesday's not particularly good for me.

Um Monday and Tuesday would be pre preferable.

Okay.

Uh Councilmember Sharp.

I um I just realized I'm not able to attend on Wednesday.

Um, but given that I'm thinking we should probably at least start tonight and see since next week it sounds like there are various nights when various people can't.

Well, as predicted, yes.

Yes.

Although I echo.

Do you all want to do it on Wednesday?

That's okay.

You would not be devastated.

Yes.

When is the puppy available?

She said she said she can't do Wednesday.

Okay.

Well, what's the case?

Council member McCullough?

I just want to say I'd I'd prefer to get started tonight.

I if we're lucky and we're efficient, then we don't ramble too much.

Maybe we'll make more progress than we hope than we think.

I would certainly encourage us to be as distinct as possible.

Um I think I'm hearing a preference to start tonight.

And can you all be thinking about in case of needing because I would also like us to decide on a time that we're gonna cut it?

So would you all like to cut off at 9 30 or 10 9 30?

Going once, going twice.

But you see, council member McMahon.

Um I I participated in the planning commission meeting for four hours last night.

I can do four hours again, so I'm willing to stay here till ten.

Yeah, I think so.

Are you okay with 10?

Sure.

Okay.

Let's go ahead and say we're gonna cut it off at 10.

I would approve I don't I'm not trying to we're not gonna move it to next week.

I don't know if I try and we're not gonna move it to next week.

We're gonna split it in half.

I don't think the discussion benefits split it in half.

I think it's gonna make the discussion worse.

No.

I would have preferred for us just to do it all next week.

I also don't think we're gonna get better deliberation the later we go.

Yeah.

I think we will people just hit a wall physically around nine o'clock.

I also point out we're not we're not really deliberating it tonight.

It's really an informational presentation.

Like we're gonna deliberate it in the fall, so I think that lends itself to the possibility that we could actually move it a pretty fair clip.

We can people can re-watch the planning commission hearing, but it's I think it's really more of a sort of informational presentation that we don't I don't think we're gonna get trapped where we like have to make a decision tonight and we get stuck until 11 30.

Then I I would prefer we stop at 9 30.

Um I don't wanna be a masochist about trying to get as much done as possible.

I'm in favor of too.

Council member Ryan.

Yeah, I just um so I like Wes was in the meeting last night, and it's just it's a lot.

It's a fire hose of information.

Um I was by about nine o'clock, I was wiped out and just sitting at my at the zoom in my house, and by 10 o'clock, it was it it it's a lot.

It's a it's a lot of information.

It's all interrelated in very complicated ways.

And I would say the planning commission didn't spend a lot of time getting back and forth.

Most of it was the informational presentation with some questions and follow-up, but it was uh, but they kept up a pretty decent um brisk schedule, I thought, but it just was a lot.

Mayor Proton.

Um we have all prepared for tonight's meeting.

We have spent 10 minutes, not full ten minutes on this because we got started late.

I think we can proceed and get started.

Uh I think we can manage 10 o'clock to close.

So I would be in favor of getting it done because we all agreed that this was on our agenda and that we would address it.

I think we should honor that.

All right, I'm gonna um I am hearing that people would like the majority would like to discuss it tonight.

Um I am going to suggest that we cut it off at 9 30.

Um, since we have many other agenda items, and I think there's no reason to burn ourselves out um on one item, but um, I'm gonna urge us all to also be brief um as we can while also, of course, giving it the attention and seriousness that it deserves.

So um having worked all that out, um I have one other thing to note for our audience, which is that we will also be making appointments to three of our boards, and I will read those names at the end of the meeting, and I will also submit my ballot shortly, as usual.

Um are we still moving up the closed session?

Um I believe so, unless I hear otherwise.

I think that's a good idea to let um folks who who want to go home go home.

Does anybody have any concerns about breaking for a closed session after the complete community item?

I'm good.

Great.

Okay.

So just remind me, because I will forget that we are going to take a break after the complete community item.

Um to get us started this evening.

We have one proclamation um for parks and recreation month.

Um council member sharp is on board to make that announcement, and we'd like to invite Director Atuya Cornwell and members of the parks and recreation staff up front for that announcement.

Good evening, everyone.

In the town of Chapel Hill, we value our parks and natural recreation areas, which provide space for children and adults to enjoy the environment and live an active lifestyle.

We know that our parks and recreation programs, camps, classes, and events bring our community together.

For this and many other reasons, we are excited to proclaim the month of July as park and recreation month and to highlight the national theme, the power of park and recreation.

We encourage our residents to visit parks and recreation facilities in Chapel Hill and participate in recreation programs this summer and throughout the year.

And we thank our parks and recreation staff for their dedicated service and wish them an enjoyable park and recreation professionals day, which takes place on July 17th.

Thank you.

Do you want the full council?

We never can read that.

Thank you all again.

And Atuia, please extend all of our thanks to the entire team and all the amazing things you do for kids and adults and everybody across Chapel Hill.

We really appreciate you all.

And you do an amazing job.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay.

That brings us to announcements.

I have a couple of quick things from the town calendar to share.

Tomorrow.

Is that possible?

No.

Is it Friday?

Yeah, I'm like I'm like, it's not Thursday.

On Friday, uh, Chapel Hill will be celebrating Juneteenth.

Um, all members of the community are invited to um join in the festivities at the Hargrave Center from four to eight p.m.

There'll be live performances and art market, food, music, dancing, and more.

Um, also to allow our staff to celebrate and honor the day.

Juneteenth is a town holiday, which will affect many town operations and facilities, so please check the town website for more on that.

Um, looking a couple of weeks out, uh, the town will be celebrating the 4th of July in a different way this year, uh, with a drone show over Chapel Hill High School for more details on the some people are excited or I don't know, just excited.

Um for more details on those events and other town events and meetings.

Please make sure you're signed up for our town, our weekly e-newsletter, or visit the calendar page on the town website.

Um, council members, does anyone else have something to share?

Okay.

Next step, we invite members of the public to comment on items not listed on the printed agenda.

Take it away.

No.

Nope.

Uh that's on consent, so that's that's where it needs to be.

Okay.

Great.

Okay.

Our first speaker uh and only speaker for this portion, Joe Patterson.

Thank you.

Uh thank you.

Uh trust you can hear this.

Um, I'm Joe Patterson.

I'm representing the interests of the uh speaking.

It says green.

Oh better?

Yeah.

Give me a restart.

Um, I'm Joe Patterson.

I'm speaking on behalf of the interests of the people, uh, the residents of Cobb Terrace and North Street.

Um speaking of the concerning item 11 on your agenda, the exit uh from the north from the deck onto North Street.

I trust all of you received the information we sent you and hope you had a chance to receive it.

And if you did, you know what I'm here to talk about, and so I'll just cut to the chase and go right to the heart of the matter.

We made an agreement with the town four and a half years ago, in which we agreed to withdraw our objections to that exit in return for the town designing an exit, which prevented traffic going through our neighborhood.

It prevented traffic turning right out of that exit into our neighborhood or turning left from our neighborhood into that deck.

This basically inoculated us from any traffic, and so we were happy to allow to allow that uh exit to proceed.

That agreement was written down, it was copied to the mayor, it was copied to the town manager.

Uh it was subsequently reaffirmed uh in writing by Chris Blue.

And uh we have since and since that original date seen nothing.

We have never gotten any action from the town staff on the design of the set of design of the exit that we had agreed would be constructed.

We have asked repeatedly for a plan, we have asked for construction, we've gotten nothing.

In the last year, we contacted Mr.

Voorhees, who was not around it when any of this was taking place, of course, and asked him to address the issue.

We in the absence of a plan, we drew up our own, uh, which is consistent with all the other bollard installations around town.

It's very inexpensive, requires seven bollards, and can be done without any impact on anyone else.

Except the only benefit, the only person benefiting is us, and no one is being harmed at all.

What we can't understand is why is there ongoing resistance to this?

What we want this town council to do, please, is to instruct staff to honor the agreement that we signed, or that we agreed.

The agreement, the terms of the agreement that we made.

Um if we can't count on if we as residents cannot cannot count on a good faith agreement made with the town, and the town actually keeping up its end of the bargain.

Uh, we're all in real trouble.

And uh it's and that's basically pretty much everything I have to say.

It's uh I hope you will take those steps that are necessary to make that happen.

And I'd be happy to discuss this with anybody at any other time when I realize you've got other things to go along with, but uh thank you for your time.

Any questions?

Thank you, Mr.

Patterson.

Um while we no longer have a formal petition process, um, sharing your concerns and ideas with your local government is a valued First Amendment right and something we continue to welcome and support.

Um, council does not take immediate action on these requests, but they are carefully reviewed by the town manager and staff who will review the matter and respond to us and to you.

Thank you.

Okay, council.

That brings us to our consent agenda.

Do I have a motion to approve consent?

Some moved.

Second.

Moved by um council member Ryan, seconded by council member McCullough.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous, eight to zero.

Um next up is item number fourteen on campaign contribution limitations, and our town clerk, Brittany Hunt, is here to walk us through.

No, I'm the town clerk.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

I'm your town clerk Brittany Hunt, and tonight I will discuss the campaign contribution limits.

Staff is asking council to provide direction on how the campaign contribution limit should be calculated in future even number years.

Options include keeping the current formula, consumer price index, and number of registered voters using CPI only, or exploring a different option the council may want to consider.

We're not seeking adoption tonight, just direction so we can prepare the ordinance amendment accordingly for a fall consent agenda item.

This ensures the updated limit is in place before the next election.

Some background and context is that every even number year, the clerk's office gathers the data needed to calculate the campaign contribution limit as required by ordinance.

The item was pulled from the April 15th consent agenda to discuss whether the formula should rely solely on consumer price index rather than a combined CPI and voter count calculation.

Tonight's discussion will help staff determine how to proceed for the 2027 election cycle and going forward.

Some legislative context says that Chapel Hill received special legislative authority in 1999 to set its own campaign contribution limits and adopt stricter caps than the state.

The intent was to create a more level plan field and reduce the influence of large donors.

The limits were intended to maintain fairness, transparency, and be responsive to changing economic and population conditions.

In 2010, the town council adopted an ordinance requiring limits to be updated every even numbered year using two factors.

CPI beginning in 2009 and growth or decline in registered voters.

In 2016, staff realized that the CPI had been added to the formula every year since 2009, which resulted in higher than intended adjustments.

In 2017, council clarified that CPI must be calculated on a two-year basis, measuring inflation since the previous even numbered year, not since 2009.

The voter base adjustment and rounding rules remain unchanged.

This slide shows the statewide standard used almost everywhere else and how it is applied in recent years across North Carolina.

The vast majority of municipalities, including those in their triangle, use the statewide campaign contribution limit established and administered by the NC State Board of Elections.

CPI rose 6% since January 2024, but register voters were around 35,000.

The decrease in limit is driven by the voter adjustment, not by CPI.

If council direct CPI only, we take the last adopted amounts and apply the 6% CPI increase since January 2024, given $390 contribution limit and $40 disclosure limit for 2026.

To recap, council can keep the current two-factor formula, move to CPI only, or direct staff to explore a new formula entirely.

Following to not discussion, staff will prepare the ordinance amendment that reflects council's direction.

That amendment will return on September not as a consent agenda item unless council prefers otherwise.

This timeline ensures the updated limit is in place ahead of the next election cycle.

And that's so.

Thank you.

Thank you for the clear presentation and the options.

Council, any clarifying questions?

Any members of the public wishing to speak?

Don't have any.

Okay.

Council comments.

Oh I love that we have contribution limits.

I think that I would love to continue doing that.

And I think going to the CPI only makes sense.

I was really surprised when you were all of a sudden we could spend less money than two years earlier, which didn't seem to make sense to you.

Councilmember Keller.

I'm wondering how low we can go.

I would love to be able to set something like a hundred dollars, no more.

Um what's the possibilities?

We can set our own formulas, however.

You have to have a formula.

Uh we have special legislation that allows us to determine our own limit.

We could set a firm limit, but in light of changes, prior councils chose the formula.

But the legislation has wide granting authority.

You can go where you want to.

I think the barrier should be as low as possible.

Okay.

Councilmember Sharp.

Um I also really appreciate that we have contribution limits, and I take a little pride in how different they are from the state limits, and also just given how insane campaigns have gotten nationwide at all different levels of government, particularly in the last year.

I think I I think I'm proud of us for this.

But um I think it makes sense to keep something that can flex given how much things continue to cost more and more.

And so I like the idea of just sticking with just the straight up CPI adjustment by annual adjustment.

Councilmember Nollar.

Um Jim, do we have authority to restrict individuals from making unlimited donations to their own campaign?

Because like you know, in state law, you can give yourself an unlimited amount of money.

Can we restrict that locally?

Our ordinance doesn't address that, so the interpretation has been that you can fund your own campaign.

Okay.

So then I would be against the $100 limit because it would mean if I have tons of money, I can spend $20,000 on my campaign, and if I have no money, I can only collect $100 from an individual donor.

And I'd support the CPI adjustment.

Council, oh uh Mayor Partem.

I'd like to chime in that I also support simplifying and therefore the CPI adjustment.

I share council member Nollert's uh concern about um the advantage that someone who is extremely wealthy would have running for office if we were to set that limit so low.

And that was something that was addressed during my first campaign when I was asked to put even further restrictions on who I would accept donations from.

Um all that to say that I support the CPI.

Thank you.

It's funny, I was waiting for a motion, but I'm like, we're just discussing this.

So I too support the CPI only option.

Thank you.

You want to make a motion?

Oh, I'll move.

Oh, we are we doing motion.

We do not we don't need motion.

I'll put it on the next step.

No, it's just giving directions informally, and they will bring back the ordinance.

So I think I also support the CPI and taking out the um the population, which I am hearing a pretty solid majority for.

So that's where we are.

Okay.

I'll bring it back in September.

Thank you.

Thank you.

One down.

Um item number 15 is update on complete community implementation.

And we all know this guy.

Our manager, Ted Voorhees.

Please don't hold it against me.

Uh, good evening, Mayor and Council.

We'll try to do this as quickly as possible.

There are sort of three points we're trying to get out here because we've talked uh quite a bit about complete community over the years.

We just want to talk about how we define this, how we um center this in our work, and then how we report back to council on our progress.

So what do we talk about when we talk about complete community?

How can we tell what we've uh accomplished and what we're working on and how are we going to measure this?

What do we talk about?

Um essentially, you've defined this, um, you've adopted some language.

Um, but uh it boils down to planning for the future strategically.

Uh one key element is expanding and delivering new greenways for everyday life.

We've talked a lot about that.

We've got a study ongoing, and we've got some quick wins planned to begin the summer.

We want to be green.

We've talked about um how we have our natural areas um model and then plan for excellence in the public realm everywhere, a commitment to our public.

So we're gonna focus growth in these areas.

Uh greenway uh greenway focused development will maximize walkability and minimize cars.

Our transit corridors will also create uh density and uh better use of transit.

Uh and as we focus on the north-south BRT, that higher order transit will be better utilized.

With large infill sites, we'll work to better use our land and remediate some past practices where we haven't instituted the proper density, and for small infill sites we'll will uh reduce barriers so that we can increase housing diversity and inclusivity.

So ultimately, our community will be a place where people can live in a variety of housing types, easily get around without a car, enjoy parks and natural spaces, access vibrant commercial areas, and live work and play in thriving neighborhoods.

So, what have we accomplished and what are we working on?

Clearly on the agenda tonight.

We have planning system improvements.

We've talked about how we've uh reduced barriers and speed speeded up the process for uh permit approvals, our stormwater regulations.

We just had a a great uh session with our public yesterday, uh but you've also adopted the hundred-year uh design standard.

Uh multiple LUMO amendments have already been approved, and we're beginning to get into the big update.

Uh we have a raise grant in hand, and we're working on that with our consultant to do our everywhere to everywhere study.

As I mentioned, the natural features model is currently in use and being used by staff as they review plans that come in, and then we have numerous bike ped improvements, some of which are being put in place uh this summer, and some of which are under design.

And there's a lot more underway.

You've got the LUMO on your agenda to get done uh before the end of the year.

I mentioned the study, our north-south rapid uh construction projects underway.

I just signed today the agreement with uh uh the university and the health system for uh acquisition to their property to build the project.

We have 90 percent design plans in hand.

We have an economic development corridor study with the US EDA uh that we've applied for or we're applying for in July.

Uh our climate action plan.

You received a presentation on that uh within the last 30 days or so, and we're doing the update uh over the next few months.

And then our next big planning project is our comp plan update following LUMO adoption.

But we can't do it alone, so we'll continue to work with our partners, the university, the schools, the county, our neighboring town of Carberro, our development partners, and our affordable housing partners.

How are we measuring progress and reporting to council?

You don't want to just hear my words.

You want to know that all town departments use this framework as their playbook to to achieve your strategic priorities.

So we've got them working on their business plans right now, and in those business plans, we we're asking for them to specifically link their work to your strategic priorities.

This is how it looks on an arrow chart, and from those projects, programs, and services, we'll get uh indicators like miles of greenways, multimodal use uh projects planned, built or improved, number of affordable housing projects planned, approved, built, and number of grants applied for.

These are just a few examples, but each of the departments have been asked to give a specific performance metrics that will come out of their business plans that are useful and meaningful.

And we will be reporting those back to you.

Once we complete the LUMO adoption, our next major policy process will be an update to the comprehensive plan, as I mentioned.

And one of the very first steps in that process will be to center the complete community framework that you've already adopted into the comp plan as council's principal visioning policy document.

And then the comp plan will reflect that framework in both policy elements and in mapping on the ground.

So that's my presentation to you to show you how we're linking your plans and linking complete community as a framework into all the work we do with a planned reporting uh framework to you.

Happy to answer any questions, but we'll be seeing more of this as we move down through the rest of the year.

And in the interest of time, I've tried to speed this up.

Any questions?

Councilmember Rivers?

Yeah, thanks for the presentation, Ted.

When you when you develop those metrics, you'll share those with us, right?

As they come online.

We will.

Okay.

Councilmember Ryan.

Yeah, thank you for this.

Um I'm a huge supporter of Complete Community.

Was here when we passed it, have run on it, the compute, the uh community really supported it.

I think it's a very important thing for the town of Chapel Hill.

Um of the things when the consultant was talking to us, she said the first principle of complete community is first decide what you're protecting.

Can you talk a little bit about how that has happened or how it can happen in the future?

Well, I'm not sure I'm the person to speak to this at in depth.

Uh the council has adopted that framework as policy.

The way the protection happens is in typically if you're talking about new development, that comes in through the planning department applications where they're using the natural areas model to assess where we have vulnerabilities, where we have resource protection areas, and then they're uh reviewing plans with a mind towards um making sure that those are protected to the to the maximum extent uh practical.

Uh then we have our uh hundred-year storm uh design, which our stormwater team is using to review the uh the stormwater regulations of the stormwater facilities and practices on those plans.

Um I think uh there's also conversations being had in uh review with developers uh as to appropriateness of of a of a plan.

So if someone brings something in that's a lower density than we might want to see on a transit corridor, that would be a time for staff to have a conversation with them.

Have you thought about something different?

Uh so that type of work goes on, you know, with our staff on a regular basis.

Um are there other parts of protection that you'd like to have more information on?

I mean, it can be it can be anything.

I know we have there's there are wetlands in town, for instance, that aren't currently protected, and I know that there's we can actually get money from the state for putting those into conservation.

Um there's a lot of areas that the natural features map shows, and I know you've done a lot of work with the triangle connectivity collaborative, especially in that kind of northeastern part of town.

There's a lot of areas in there that are that really need protection.

Um I know Taz addressed last night some of that is a um it's a question of being able to go out and actually make sure that you've got all of that data that you need, but I know that we have some areas in town like that that are important.

Um there was we did a stormwater LUMO study that identified that suggested in our ordinance that we protect wetlands, not just RCDs, that we put buffers around wetlands.

I don't know how many of those actually exist in town, but that could be another thing.

Um, and it can extend to cultural resources.

Um it could extend to neighborhood protections for important historical neighborhoods.

It could it could protection can be written broadly, it's not simply environmental protection.

I just I don't want that to get lost.

That was an important early principle of what complete community was about.

So, you know, and then you you protect those things, and then you say, okay, in exchange for doing that, we're gonna allow that other density in the other places, right?

So instead of smearing things everywhere, we're saving some things and we're allowing more growth in other places.

And I think that's the that's the balance that we're trying to achieve for that.

Thank you, Councilmember.

And I think uh as we get into the comp plan, making sure that those policy elements are explicitly stated in our updated comp plan would be very appropriate.

And we can also ask our stormwater team to provide some updated information on what extent uh they've uh explored proactive protections for any of the wetland areas.

That would be a good idea.

An example of another thing we've done is just since I've been here is we've uh strengthened our um uh regulatory uh protections for um water watershed areas that's that's happened.

Yeah.

Uh one more quick one.

So um part of what the consultant recommended was to do pilot projects to show to kind of demonstrate to the community what complete community was.

And I know there are fiscal constraints and all kinds of things, but um is do you have any of those on the horizon?

I know lot two was kind of identified as a possible way to show kind of that walkability, gathering space, public space aspect of the of the complete community plan.

Yeah, lot two is definitely on our list, and uh David and I will probably update you a little bit in closed session about some things um that we're considering.

We've had some conversations about a lot too.

Great.

Thank you.

Councilmember McMahon.

Yeah, uh, thanks, Ted.

One of the questions I have, I wish I could go back to the the matrix that we did that had goals and priorities, and then Taz, you were very good about saying that's not something the LUMO can address.

Um and then we've got some other tools at our disposal, like you've mentioned the stormwater plan, the natural areas map, um, some of these other things that are outside the limo.

I am wondering if there's a way to to have an example of an area and then where each of these different plans intersect at getting the complete community goals that that people want to see.

I'm having a hard time explaining how some of these different um plans or tools that we have intersect to put together a whole picture of of how we get the outcomes we want for an area.

And so I'm just wondering how I can get a better example of what are the things that are done outside the LUMO to achieve the goals, what are the tools we have right now, and how do they all work together in one piece to really get at this complete community concept?

So I'm just trying to figure out how we could create uh uh image or representation of how these different things all work together.

Thank you for that thought.

We'll put our heads together and see how we might be able to do some visioning, illustrating graphics to be able to communicate better rather than just a narrative as we think about what the comp plan looks like.

I have a couple questions.

I guess one is um well, first of all, thank you for this presentation, and thank you for continuing to center complete community in this really important way.

Um I guess my first question is um maybe a follow-up to Councilmember Ryan.

How does the natural areas map actually maybe it's a question like an example or how is it being used to actually protect the environment or make a better decision, or you know, because I thought something Taz that you talked about at some point was it kind of has limitations in terms of playing a real regulatory role.

And so I guess um, and I hear that, and that's helpful.

Um so I'm wondering what exactly is it doing, and also is there something that it's missing, or is is there something that would make it better to actually serve a regulatory role, or is it, you know, I guess I'm just still not totally clear how beyond kind of knowing more that it's helping us do what it's supposed to do.

It's not a regulatory tool.

Right.

Um, it's a piece of information that staff use to help make sure that uh an application um is responsive to something that we know about.

So if we didn't have it and people submitted a plan set that did not indicate some of the features on the site that might be there, otherwise, staff might fail to interrogate uh appropriately the proposer and might miss opportunities to direct them in better out to better outcomes.

Um but it also is not perfect.

It's a it's a tool.

Um so I think it facilitates better design conversations and uh then the attempt to uh implement that becomes part of um you know the negotiation towards what is finally put before council if that's the case or what's put on a site plan if it goes that route.

Um so it's a it's a tool, it's information, and we've not come up with a way where we think it could be a regulatory um uh you know, form a basis for a uh uh a regulatory tool.

It just doesn't exist as as we understand it in development law.

Or let me let me clear let me um let me um I misspoke myself, which is I'm not asking if it is a regulatory tool in itself, but how is it informing regulation?

I guess I'm not the practitioner.

Uh I I can defer to the planning director um if she would like to take a stab at explaining that, but um that or we could provide a written update with you on that.

Later.

Or we could let you pet Nico and hope hopefully.

That is also required by ordinance, but I was just going to say we we definitely can get you more information on it, but to the question of how it informs regulation.

It is a tool that it identifies features on the site that it really just alerts us to the sensitivities of the of the site.

But the level of specificity that it gives as to what is actually on the site is too broad.

It's not detailed enough for it to be regulatory.

Um it shouldn't be a hard fast if this portion of the map is a certain color, nothing should happen here because there's too much nuance to how we do development.

There's too much nuance to the size and the other restrictions that might apply to that particular site.

And it's particularly in Chapel Heel, more so than any than other municipalities that could have a similar tool.

Um we continue to explore how we can make it more practical and um improve the data and try to find ways to make it more applicable as we do those reviews, but it is something that staff uses regularly to for that first stab.

Is it these are the things that we need to be sensitive of?

These are the regulations that might need to apply because we have this happening on that site.

Um and for that reason, it's useful, but it it's not quite where you're leading that you may want to see it, like as far as a regulatory tool.

Like that's that's a step further than we are right now.

But we can get you more information as to what staff continues to do as it evolve.

That would be great.

Thank you.

And also Nico can just stay like right there and peer over the desk.

That would be perfect.

Um He did.

He looked like he wanted to interject something.

Um I guess then I'll wait to hear more.

I guess um, I'd mention, Mayor, that like what used to happen in this realm was a similar thing with steep slopes.

If we didn't have maps about steep slopes, then again, you didn't know where they were, and the applicant would come in and you had to take their word for it.

But when we started getting better maps of steep slopes, then people reviewing plans were alerted saying, oh, I better be on the lookout for that.

Maybe I need a survey and not just use Xeroxing a USGS map and calling it a day.

Um so we've refined that process.

Same thing with our RPAs.

In that sense, the map is somewhat regulatory, but then it can be um adjusted by survey because at that level of granularity, you're you could be off just a few feet and it might make a big difference uh on the site.

So you really do need to to be more specific with survey, but then we have processes to grant waivers in that area when it makes sense for the quality of the development.

So it's a good idea.

It's a mixture of the same thing.

And so it is helping us to enforce regulations, is what I would say.

Like we have a steep slope.

We have rules around steep slopes.

Right.

And so it is helping us to make sure that we enforce them or they don't get through the cracks.

So in some ways, I mean I'm not I'm not trying to sell it, but I mean it does sound like it's actually helping us to be more accurate or to make sure that we're paying attention to things that do have regulation behind them.

Correct.

Okay.

Thank you.

I guess one other thing I wanted to ask about, which you know, we talked about it a little bit yesterday, but is this this definition of how do we come to agreement on what the definition is?

Like, you know, I think some of us, most of us not.

Oh, old.

Um most of it as at the dais did not go through the complete community process with the consultant, but I think most of us actually ran on it and have a firm support more recently.

But I guess I'm wondering like when I look at the website, I don't see something that I guess resonates for me, or there are things there that I'm not sure are totally what I would say it is, or what the important pieces are.

And so I feel like there are times where I'm just not even sure that we're agreeing or that we have a general idea of what the definition is.

And that's why I think this um first step in our comp plan process needs to be to pull out that adopted document and reaffirm it by the board that's sitting here now and center it right at the beginning of the policy statement portions of the comp plan.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Um, when you talk about the metrics, it sounds like there's these um business plan metrics, which feels to me like a more internal thing that I would also love to see them, but that's not something that is our job to kind of track kind of what staff is doing on a day-to-day basis.

So I'm more wondering about those bigger picture metrics that I think are not uh bottom up, that they're a top-down um interest about how do we communicate to ourselves and to the community, which is different than a departmental metric.

And so I'm wondering how we're gonna, I mean, is that also a comp plan activity or when does that happen?

Uh I don't think or does that even make sense to you?

No, that does.

And we've actually talked about how our business plans are too dense uh and long and are not used as well as we would like them to be, and so have actually been piloting some different uh ways to demonstrate the the metrics and we're looking more and more at the notion of instead of having them come out of departments in their sort of departmental labels to feed the most important metrics on complete community into our uh open data platform as a collective set of metrics around complete community progress.

So then that people won't have to look, oh well, what did we do on this?

So I gotta go to the public works business plan, what do we do on that?

I gotta go to the planning business plan, what do we do on that?

I gotta go to um OMG or um sustainability, and then I gotta piece it together.

Instead, we're looking at how do we consolidate all the metrics that we think are uh informing progress on complete community into a sort of single portal that that lines those all up, even though they may be coming out of different departments, they'll they'll live in our probably our open data portal as a complete community scorecard, metric dashboard, something along those lines.

Thanks.

Anyone else?

Uh council member and all our yeah, I wanted to come back for a second to the natural areas map and ask if um if part of the value created by that resource is that coming into conversations with developers given given the reputation excuse me.

Given the reputation Chapel Hill has for scrutinizing projects, if having that tool means that they learn fairly early in a project what we've identified on their site and know about, and if it sort of then increases the likelihood that they design around those things out of fear that they might get rejected if they don't sort of pro even if it's not a sort of technically technically or legally regulatory tool that just awareness that that information exists for us and will be available to us as a deciding board sort of influences how they think about what they want to put on land that they are designing for I'm I think that's a reasonable assumption uh because if we s if if we're showing it, then it's hard for them to to say they don't know about it.

I'm I think that's a reasonable assumption because if we s if if we're showing it, then it's hard for them to say they don't know about it, but I I wouldn't um necessarily uh feel comfortable um speaking from their perspective in any more detail than that.

Thanks.

Mayor Protenberry.

Thank you.

I don't think it will be in it wouldn't be in the limo, but in the comp plan as we talk about where affordable housing will be.

Will we get to the point where we talk about desires for types of affordable housing?

You know how low or as far as area median income or um number of units, what types of of housing, because I can think of a couple of projects where there have been competing interests, affordable housing full stop to affordable housing for different size um households.

So will we be able to see that or is that not a reasonable request and we should get that elsewhere?

I think we should have some conversation about um where that lives, because we do have an affordable housing plan that sort of lives on its own, but the comprehensive plan is where all our policies in theory would come together in a way that would help communicate better um you know what the collective community interest is.

And so um is there a world in which we just refer out to a separate document?

I think that's a reasonable one, but another reasonable way to do it is to pull in from that plan and update some elements of it so it lives in that unified document.

And I I don't think we've made that decision.

Uh so I think we should work through that.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

Do we have members of the public wishing to speak?

Okay, council comments?

Councilmember McCullough.

Yes.

Um thank you for putting this together.

I found it really helpful and and encouraging.

Um I I want to say that I do agree with a council member, Ryan, that I hope that we can figure out how to use.

I understand the difficulties with the data used and and the and the granularity of the data used in the natural areas map.

So I understand why we're not using it regulatorily per se.

Um, but I but I do agree that I'd like to see where we can use it proactively to do protection.

Um example I was thinking about was might there be RCDs that uh need expansion, or where we should say in the upper RCD, it's especially good um habitat and be able to identify those kinds of places that we might want to consider need extra protection.

Um so I'm glad to hear that we're um looking at that as a place to to do additional survey uh and evaluation, especially with response to stormwater and um and the green infrastructure functions that exist in the RCDs and places like wetlands.

The second thing is that one of my concerns about the complete community process in general was um how are we going to institutionalize it?

And I feel much better about how it's being institutionalized with your report, with all the places that it's being integrated into the work and the thinking.

Um I'm very pleased about that.

Um thing I I wonder if you might want to or consider is a sometime uh some kind of a cross department team that would meet on a regular basis, for example.

Um a lot of sustained a lot of communities will have sustainability teams that that have memberships from across different silos.

They meet on a regular basis, they identify um possibilities for synergies or conflicts.

And um one thing that I found is that that very often really good ideas come from the bottom up, and and that might provide some opportunity.

So I I am very pleased at how you how it's being institutionalized, and and thank you for that.

Um I think that's all for right now.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Ryan.

Yeah, I'd like to second what com uh Councilmember McCullough's call you council or a congresswoman.

You got a promotion.

Next election.

Yeah, no, I would like to second what she said about exploring cross-departmental work as as kind of the C complete community leadership team.

I think that could have some good potential.

So complete community was really a paradigm shift for this town.

It was a direction we had already been going, but it took it just a little bit, it took it farther.

I'm really happy to see that you're institutionalizing it.

I still don't think we have fully operationalized it yet.

So I know I was glad to hear you talk about metrics and talk about measuring.

But I think one of the one of the ways that it will become a really valuable tool is if we think about it in terms of a 15-minute city concept or a walkability score concept and actually look at different areas of the town, divide the town into areas and say, okay, we have a list of the 12 things that make it area complete, whatever whatever that is.

And then every area gets a score, and nobody is expected to be able to do everything.

But we really we have a goal that each area does 60 percent or 75%, whatever that is.

And then you can say, okay, when we're doing long-range planning or when a new big development comes in, you can say, hey, well, you want to be in area B.

Area B is great, but we really um we've been told that this is a great place for retail, and we really we really want to prioritize there.

We know it can be economically successful.

We appreciate you coming in and wanting to build just housing, but we're not sure that's gonna meet our needs, right?

So it just gives us a way to sort of, or to go out and say, hey, we know this area can be successful, we know David can sell, so we uh sound send him out and say, hey, you know, we have this great opportunity, so we can be proactive about things.

And then as we know what those metrics are, and we can see over time, you know, we're making we're making great progress here, here, and here.

This area we've got to bring up.

We're really we're doing pretty well here.

I think that actually having that again, you you don't get what you don't measure.

So I think if we can do that on it in a way that will allow us to use it as a an analysis tool and a planning tool and a proactive tool, I think that would um I think that would hit at the heart of complete community for me.

For me, it was really we know that we have to work with the market.

We don't get any, we don't build things, we don't pay for them.

We have to be we have to be open to the market and we have to be reasonable in what we're asking of the market.

But we also don't have to take just anything that the market wants to bring to us.

We can know where we're going, what we want, where we want it, and try to get it.

So um I would really encourage you as you're thinking about all this to think about that kind of operationalizing in our long-range planning.

Thank you.

And again, I think the comp plan is uh is our our next best um regulatory framework, if you will, visioning frameworks uh place to operationalize that.

Um can imagine a county that says, you know, the north part of our county is rural and we want to protect farmland and the town here is a place where we want to allow housing and maybe we'll allow a little bit outside of it, and then this uh area over here is an industrial park.

And I've read comprehensive plans that look like that.

The level of um detail, the elements of completeness that we're talking about are far more detailed and would lend themselves to a much different looking comprehensive plan.

And so I think that's that's where that if you if you if you come from anywhere out of if you come to any community that has any kind of planning, the idea that there's a comprehensive plan and a zoning map, and that's how they do how we do regulation and and look at plans, that's sort of a universal way across the country.

So if we can take our complete community uh elements and and nest nest them into the comp plan and to our zoning ordinance, that's how I think we're gonna really operationalize that.

So I appreciate those comments and and we'll be taking those thoughts to heart as we figure out what that next comp plan looks like.

Councilmember McMahon.

Yeah, I'll just add on with um the Council Member Ryan mentioned area planning, and I think it's one of those things where how do we define complete community?

And one of for me is coming back to we're talking about people.

And you know, we talk to people that are you know can't find a place to live here, uh they want to walk to a coffee shop, they're worried their home's gonna flood, they're worried that our natural areas aren't being protected, and they're worried about housing density that just increases traffic.

Um so one of the things when I think about how you define something is well, what's the opposite?

And I think it's very clear that the opposite is we we do these things without connecting them together.

Like part of my question earlier was like, how do we better capture uh and integrate this idea of all these things working together so that people can see that um all of our efforts are combining.

And I think when we talk about the LUMO, people get concerned that the LUMO is gonna do everything or not do everything, and finding a way to really get to this idea that the LUMO is just one piece, primarily around freeing up our housing and figuring out how we can integrate those other pieces so that it really is you know, creating this full picture, and it can allay a lot of fears about what we're doing and reinforce the great things that we are doing to create the community that people want to see and um creates opportunity and allays their fears.

So that whole thing of what are all the other pieces, how do we integrate them, get them together and communicate them so that people can know that those of us up here are really working hard at this and we care about it and we want to see it happen.

So any way that we can keep pushing this idea that all of these things work together, that we're doing these things in an area so that people can see um the benefits is helpful.

Thank you.

Mayor Pro Temberry.

Thank you.

I want to build on that.

Um what I'm hearing, manager and staff, is that we would like to be informed to the point where we can help explain what's happening.

Uh visualization will be very helpful if we could have that of how these pieces go together.

Um and just as we will have the definition restated, and I agree if we can keep that in the forefront of what the complete community is, but also help us with the definition of what is a LUMO.

So, and it may be there on our on our site, but this is what the LUMO delivers.

And this is it uh as we continue just helping us to understand it to the point where we can express it.

Because if we can't express it, that makes us very uneasy.

And if we can't express it, chances are our community is not getting it, and that makes them extremely uneasy.

So, what I'm hearing, and what I would like is for us to have uh to be equipped with information that we can also share.

And um I do share the desire to have that visualization to understand what each of these pieces are, what we can and what we cannot regulate, and if we cannot regulate it, how we will go about trying to accomplish um preserving, protecting.

I will say though, that I do have a concern about um some preservation methods have been put into place across this country, and it has um had an unfortunate consequence where it has impacted the ability of certain groups of people to be able to uh do things with their property because of that.

So I'm going to be looking closely at that to make sure that as much as I can because I'm not that educated, but I will be curious about as we put restrictions, what could be the unintended consequences?

But I think it would be helpful for us to have that information.

Thank you.

Um again, thank you for this presentation.

Um I guess one area that I kind of wanted to have you help me understand is when we talk about these more public-facing or council-facing metrics.

Um I envision that as being something that council is engaged in or that council is um working with staff on creating those.

But I think what I'm hearing from you is that the current philosophy is that that is kind of like a amalgamation or kind of coming up from the business plans.

And if if you're envisioning that council doesn't really have much of a role in developing those, I guess I would like to understand that better.

I don't and and I'm not assuming that that's maybe what you're saying, but I guess I'm trying to understand better how you see that.

Sure, I'm uh happy to respond to that directly.

And we're then we would be more than happy to seek your input to get refinements.

Um if they're not useful to you and this is your policy goal, then it'll be a bit of a waste of our time to track them.

So let's come up with goals that we can all agree on and then uh hold ourselves accountable collectively for for achieving those goals.

So uh while we do view it as our role to sort of create them to start with, um we'll ask you to check our work and uh recommend refinements or something different if it doesn't meet your interest.

That's great, thank you.

And I mean while we will be tracking our own work, uh you know understood.

But but if we're gonna do sort of but I also kind of don't want to put in your business on that.

If we're gonna do community reporting, we we need to do that in a way that is meaningful to the governing body as well as the community.

That's great.

And I also I really do like the idea of us also holding ourselves accountable that if there are things that if there are decisions that we're making um that impact the success of our goals, then I think that's really important for us to also think that way.

So I like that framing.

Um I went back and looked at what we approved unanimously in 2022, and it said the complete community strategy is designed to guide how Chapel Hill grows in a way that is inclusive, sustainable, and economically competitive.

Um a complete community has diverse types of housing, active and transit transportation with connections, pedestrian-oriented design with cycling and walking paths and mixed use buildings, and then it goes on with the goals that you had.

Um I don't um I think that's a great place to start, and certainly we should think about does that still resonate for this council certainly, and does staff have um updated ideas of how we should be thinking about that.

Um I generally um I certainly agree with the idea of cross-departmental um leadership on piecing this all together.

Um and I also really do support the idea of having um the natural features map do as much as we can to help us actually regulate or protect things while we're also being very intentional about densifying.

And I think um one of the things that I really like about this way of thinking, this, you know, like council member Ryan said, like the 15-minute city idea is also that we do have housing goals.

So I think obviously we need to know more than just affordable, even though that's critically important to us.

We also need to know how much middle housing, you know, where are the gaps and how are we filling them strategically?

But I I think you know, it's really been about a more proactive, holistic approach.

Um and I'm I am not sure that we've totally accomplished that yet, but I'm really excited about the progress that we're making so far.

Um and I do think that tracking and not in a punitive way, but really understanding where our gaps are will help us, even in zoning to think about you know if if we have a lot of something, it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not a gap.

And so how are we strategically aligning our regulations and what we are targeting and what we are requiring so that it fills in gaps?

Um, and so I think that's really important.

But I think overall, um I think council is still supportive of complete community, which is great.

Um and I think you've gotten some really good feedback and we'll look forward to the comp plan starting, which I'm sure staff can't even imagine doing anything different with their lives.

Um and can you just remind us a general timeline you're thinking that starts once we approve the LUMO?

I think that's that's right.

I mean, to the extent that there's sort of pre thinking about it going on, I I Brittany's all always leaning forward on things, but the we don't want to take our eye off the ball on LUMO because that's uh that's a that's a big lift.

Um but so and then the zoning map comes after those.

Yeah, the zoning map would come after the adoption of the LUMO.

That would be the next step, but we would start preparation for the comp plan to follow shortly after.

I see.

But if we don't know what the gaps are or where the strategic areas are for certain uses, then how do we do the zoning map first?

Well, it can it can evolve too.

I mean, you've got to put you gotta put the existing zoning on the ground once you uh adopt the new districts, or else you'll be sort of in a gap between what we have.

Um but uh you know clearly if there are I'll give an example if you have um and I'm not gonna use Chapel Hills zoning classifications, but for this example, if you have a long MLK, some area that's zoned residential, and you switch in the LUMO to call it mixed use two or something.

Um but then after when you get into the comp plan, you say, you know what, that really needs to be um transit-oriented development.

Let's I'm just making this up.

So we need to change the mixed use two districts on that court or to TOD one.

Then I'll be uh there'll be a rezoning uh you know a remapping.

So it's uh there it's an iterative process.

Um you know it's a cart carton horse question, and um if we weren't doing the LUMO, then we would be doing the comp plan uh work to get us to a future land use map that makes those adjustments.

But since we are doing LUMO and we've got to translate between current zoning district classifications and new ones, we we think we need to settle that first.

So did I capture that reasonably well?

And so that would be if a zoning district just no longer exists, is that right?

Or there I mean R1 named R1 will be different, right?

You know, let's say in January of 27, which is like way too late, obviously.

But like let's say January 27 of 2027, R1 is now different, but it still exists.

Does that mean we have to update the map?

Yes.

Yes.

Uh yes.

Okay, got it.

And sorry if these are like clueless questions, but I have no no idea how this works.

Um, and then we wouldn't necessarily be changing to something totally different until we did the comp plan, which would then help decide if it just like wasn't right.

And so it's replaced with the most similar thing until you do your comp plan, and then you can say like that's just not right.

I think that's a fair statement.

Yeah, I I think it's also just important to remember the cycle of of these types of items in in the planning process, um, and how drawn out that cycle has become in Chapel Hill, right?

We have the current comp plan that was adopted in 2012.

There was the LUMO rewrite was technically authorized in 2017.

Took a major detour to adopt the future land use map, which is a good and meaningful roadmap for what um again, some significant changes to the zoning map could include.

Um I think there's there's a little bit of discussion about the alignment between the Flume and complete community principles.

Um but that's you know a a discussion that could be had um independent of a of a full-on comp plan update.

Um I would just be cautious of repeating the the sins of the not so distant past of doing more analysis and then having the the analysis that's already been done just kind of wither on the vine.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh Councilmember Nollard.

Um Taz, can you just reiterate the typical cycle and how long typically takes place or on average between each component of the cycle?

Um I mean it it varies from who you're talking to.

I think a lot of folks will will talk about it in a 20-year cycle with five-year kind of active periods.

So to do a comp plan update, you immediately roll into an update of the future land use map, and then you do your your zoning, uh your your ordinance update and your zoning map.

That's kind of a condensed period of of activity.

Um and then you just kind of let it kind of percolate for a while.

Um but within five years or so, you'll you're you're taking you're taking a look right at that comp plan.

Um you're kind of restarting the cycle, thinking about um how fresh is that comp plan.

Um, is it worth have you know, existing conditions or have conditions out in the world changed so much that even that five-year-old document needs to be reinterrogated.

Um, maybe it doesn't, maybe it is still good for another five years.

But you're you're constantly kind of in that cycle with kind of a very clear vision for the next five years ahead, goals for the fifteen to twenty year horizon.

Um, and it's always kind of marching forward.

Um, and I think it's that constant march forward that in the since the adoption of the Chopable twenty twenty plan in twenty twelve, um, it's that constant march forward that is kind of gotten out of sync.

That's helpful.

Um, I did not forget, we are taking not a break, but a detour.

Um, and I think I believe we're recessing the public hearing.

Moving for closed session first.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

I move that we go into closed session under North Carolina General Statutes one four three three one eight one one A five and one four three three one eight.

One one A six motion by uh Mayor Pro Temberry, seconded by Council Member Nollard.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous, eight to zero.

We will recess to the conference room.

We are back in session.

Um and we're on item number something.

We're on item number sixteen A.

Yeah.

Um go ahead.

Um wanna provide a quick update uh for Wall Stack.

And basically it is just one slide with a recommended action.

Move by Mayor Pro Temberry, seconded by Councilmember Sharp.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous eight zero.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, council.

We are at 9 04.

Um do not believe we have a lot of time for our LUMO discussion, but I would like to understand from you when you would like to do it.

Could we do uh a poll tomorrow where um council member Fushi can also participate?

Because it sounded like there were some dates, including the manager of next week that may not work for folks.

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

I would just also add that the from my for my uh perspective.

I did participate in the entire planning commission uh as well.

So if if so I I heard the presentation that will be delivered in the next meeting.

So um yeah, you know, don't you miss it?

Me missing it is not as uh a big of an issue.

Did you talk during that meeting?

Did you contribute thoughts during that meeting?

Um no.

So okay.

I'm saying that you're correct in saying that I would have things to comment in response to the thing, which I did not have a chance to do in that meeting.

But again, if if it's a matter of scheduling, then uh someone who hadn't even heard it yet.

I would rather they the meeting is uh meets their schedule than mine.

Thank you for that.

Uh council members, just very briefly.

Uh, if we're going to continue this meeting and uh recess it, we need to continue it to a time date and location certain.

Um so uh Ted, you said not Wednesday, is that right?

Well that would be my preference, but um I I I'll be able to make that adjustment if that's where you land.

I committed to supporting him.

Or is there I can't do Tuesday evening, but if you can we extend also the same question to our staff if they have we already asked, yeah.

I think um Taz mentioned that he is um all Tuesday is the only conflict he would have next week.

But he's available by the way.

Would that include daytime?

Yeah, I mean, daytime would just be canceling meetings, and you guys obviously take precedent over any other meetings.

Yeah, and I'm not assuming people can do during the day.

I'm just trying to like give options that might be not at our usual time since that's not working.

So Thursday evening.

We haven't tried Thursday evening yet.

Can I make a motion to do it on Monday?

Second.

Motion for Monday.

Are you saying it's 6 p.m.?

Monday, 6 p.m.

in council chambers.

Council chambers.

Uh move by uh council member sharp, seconded by uh Mayor Pro Tamberry.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous eight to zero.

Okay.

So thank you for coming.

All right, thank you for bringing the puppy.

See you on Monday.

Um, please bring Nico on Monday as well.

And um meeting is adjourned.

See y'all soon.

Oh shoot.

Actually, the motion would be meeting is continued to but also I didn't announce the um I'm gonna say it was an error, we're fine.

Please continue with the meeting.

I am unclosing, which is that um we have uh appointments, and so um thank you to everyone who applied.

We always um encourage folks to be engaged, and um if you were not appointed this time, we hope you will apply in the future.

Um the council has reappointed David Nom, Thomas Wartman, and Randy Herman to the Board of Adjustment.

Um Sandra Sider to the Historic District Commission and Jeffrey Green to the Planning Commission.

Um with that now meeting there's no second planning commission member.

It was split.

Oh that's what that happens.

Okay, so we're past announcements.

I'm sorry to say Jeff Green.

Jeff Green, and I'd like to congratulate the UNC Diamond Heels on their win today.

And they play again on Saturday.

Thank you.

Go heels.

Um we are recessing the meeting to Monday at 6 p.m.