You can text us.

Okay.

And we're there to help.

Oh, that's good.

I know you have a breakfast coming up.

We do.

It's our fourth annual benefit breakfast and silent auction.

It's on May the 6th.

And we're very, very excited.

We are having Maurice Jones, who works for WHRO, who's the vice president of news.

He's going to be our keynote speaker, but he was also raised by his grandparents.

So you'll have an opportunity to meet him and hear about his story.

And we also have some heart testimonials from our kin caregivers, but also from the youth that are being raised in kinship families.

Oh, that's good.

So are there any opportunities if somebody wanted to volunteer with you to to help or assist or work with you that we would appreciate volunteers?

We can use people volunteers helping with our youth.

We can have them help within the office.

They can help with our breakfast.

We have different projects throughout the year, hope packs, putting together fleece blankets, wide range of things that we can always use volunteers for.

Oh, that's good.

So make sure everybody reaches out to your website and gives in contact to assist in every way possible.

Right.

So thank you for coming today and thank you for having us, Pierre.

No problem.

And thank you for tuning in to today's segment of Tessifique Thrive Show.

Hello, and thank you for joining us for today's segment of the Chesapeake Thrive Show.

Today I have Becca Miller here from the Up Center.

Hi Becca.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Nice to join you this morning.

Thank you for coming out and talking with me today.

Thank you for having me.

Anytime.

So today we're focusing on our school age support priority area with Chesapeake Thrives.

And we're here for you from the Up Center.

Can you tell me what is the Up Center?

What do you guys offer there?

So it sounds crazy to say this, but the Up Center has actually been around for over 150 years.

I know I look really good for my age.

Right.

It started back in 1883, and a lot of what they were doing at that point was helping families who needed like coal to heat their houses, helping kids find ways to school, things like that.

Since then we've partnered and evolved into what the Up Center is now.

But the the main part of what the Up Center does is partnering with families with children and with communities in order to really change the trajectory of kids' lives.

And there are so many different programs that run through the Up Center.

There is early childhood home visiting where they work with birth, where they have a doula on staff, they work with birth all the way up through age five with parenting education and support.

They also have a dad engagement program where they're really trying to help connect dads to the family unit.

Um there's also a foster care program that works with connecting children in need to foster families.

There is a sponsored homes program, there is a RET Pay services program, there's outpatient counseling, there's all sorts of programs.

But my baby in particular is the Team Up mentoring program, which serves youth between the ages of six and seventeen.

Well, that's good.

So why is mentorship important for youth?

So I don't know if you remember years back, probably longer ago than I thought it was.

There was this series of videos that was coming out where they would line people up and they would say, take a step forward if you grew up with two parents in the household.

Take a step forward if you had access to extracurricular activities.

Take a step forward.

And it really showed the disparity between people who didn't have access to those types of resources and those types of advantages.

And what I kind of see mentorship as is it's a way to kind of fill those gaps and bring kids up to where they can meet those needs.

For example, we have a young lady who's in our program currently who her mom is a single parent.

She has an older brother who's special needs who requires a lot of her time and effort.

She's trying to raise both of them on her own.

So she works all the time so that she can support them.

And she's not really able to devote the full time and resource that this young lady like really needs, but she has so much potential and she's so smart and she does so well in school.

But we were able to match her with a mentor who, when she was coming up, was in the IB programs and then went on to certain college degrees and started her own business.

And with having that, it gives her that extra boost where she sees somebody and she can say, okay, this person has done it.

I can do it too.

And this person can show me what steps I need to follow.

They can encourage me along the way, they can support me, they can remind me and hold me accountable.

So all of those kind of things really help fill those gaps.

So besides those, is it anything else that you feel like adds value to the mentorship?

The individual relationship that you're able to build when you have that one-on-one mentoring bond is so so beautiful.

And part of why we ask for a longer commitment from our mentors, because we ask our volunteers, all of our mentors are volunteers.

We ask them to commit for a minimum of a year, and that year-long period really gives them the chance to get to know each other in a way that is special and unique.

And during that time, as the mentor and mentee are growing and developing this bond and becoming closer, they're really able to have a bigger impact because they know that kid and they know who that kid is and what that kid needs.

Yeah.

So not only do they have an impact on the child, but do you feel like that mentorship has an impact on the community at large?

Absolutely.

So we had another case where years and years and years ago we had a mentor who was matched with a young man around six or seven years old, and they were matched for a few years and things were going pretty well, and then he kind of hit those early teen years, kind of got pulled in a different direction by some people who were probably not the best influence on him.

Fast forward into his later teen years, he ended up going to jail for a few years just last year.

Um turned 20, got out of jail, and the very first person that he called was his team up mentor.

His team up mentor who's now this is he was matched when they were six, and now this young man is 20.

Gave him a job at his own company where he works, and has been for the last six months working for him six days a week, showing up early, and has said that he doesn't ever want to slide backwards to where he was before.

He doesn't ever want to live that life.

He wants to do everything that he can to get himself on the straight and narrow and to really really make that significant change.

So even though he took that harsh left turn earlier on, remembering that impact that his mentor had on him when he was younger, something clicked in his mind, and he was like, This is the person who's gonna help me turn my life around now.

So they've had a whole like reinventing of their mentoring relationship now that they're both technically in their adult years.

Right.

And it really does have the potential to fully change not just that one person's life, but if you think about any other things that could have happened on his path if he'd continued in that direction, has the ability to really change the lives of so many people.

Yeah, that's that's impactful.

So, what makes a child a good candidate for a mentorship?

So, when we think of kids, they are and people in general, they are so so full of potential, and all kids are full of potential, all people are full of potential.

But just kind of like that young man that I was mentioning, there's that certain very delicate sensitive time where other outside influences have the potential to take root and to kind of pull too hard in one direction.

The the best time where we want to get to these kids is before that happens.

Because if that seed is planted, even if things do go a little sideways, they have that ability to find their way back.

But the biggest biggest factor that makes a difference is actually the openness of the child, because the parent can want this resource for them all they want.

The community can want this resource for the kid all they want.

The mentor can be like, yes, let's do this, let's go.

But if the kid is like, no, why are why am I hanging out with this adult that I've never met before?

What is this new thing that we're trying to do?

It can take some time, but the more open the child is to being able to have that influence and that impact and make those kind of changes because it's not easy.

If you're headed down the wrong path, or if you are struggling with things, and now all of a sudden here comes this person who's like, I'm gonna help you, but it's gonna take some work.

Right.

They've got to be willing to do it, and they've got to be willing to just really be open, open to any kind of possibilities and have that positive potential mindset.

Like life might not be great right now, but if you can see that it has the ability to get great, that's where things can really shine.

Well, that's good.

So if I were a parent or someone in the school system, how would I go about getting my child or the student connected with mentorship program?

So the best way to get kids involved.

So the upsenter.org is the main website for the upcenter, and then there's a drop-down for youth where you can hit team up mentoring, and right on there, it gives you all the information about our program.

And at the bottom, there's a button that they can click that says they're interested in enrolling their child.

That sends their information to us, and then we call and reach out.

We get a little bit more information, and then we do in home interviews with the family to kind of figure out who is this kid and how can we help them best.

Oh that's good.

It's good that this support is in place that's able to help the children.

But what if I wanted to be a volunteer?

Do you have a need for those right now?

Or how could I become involved?

We absolutely do.

Um our biggest need actually is male mentors.

So that is not to say we don't cherish our female mentors, our female mentors are amazing, but we tend to get a lot more females interested on the mentoring side than we do males, and we have a lot more boys on our wait list than we do girls.

So the need for male mentorship is just so so strong.

And honestly, the best way to do it is exactly the same as the way for parents to get their kids involved is to go to that website, theupcenter.org, follow the team up mentoring dropdown, and there's also a button that you can click to say that you're interested in becoming a mentor, and then we follow that same process.

We reach out, we put them through interview, and we do background checks to make sure that everything is safe, get them fully trained, and then our number one focus is making sure that we're putting the right puzzle pieces together.

So valuing a mentor's specific unique strengths and matching them with the child that they will be able to really pour into as strongly as possible.

Oh, that's great.

Well, thank you for joining today and let us know about the mentorship program and how we can get connected by visiting the Up Center's website and just offering that support and services for not only the youth but the community overall.

So thank you for coming today.

No problem.

And thank you all for joining us for today's segment of the Tesla Peak Drive Show.

You're watching Tessa Pink Television.

Ready?

Good evening, everybody.

The planning commission pre-meeting for October 8th, 2025 is now in session.

Welcome to our pre-meeting tonight.

Thank you for taking part in the business of our city.

First order of business tonight is the agenda overview discussion.

So tonight we have nine applications before us.

None of them are for continuance or withdrawal.

So we'll take action on all nine.

So we will uh now review each of them and determine placement on either the consent or regular agenda.

So the first item is item one, psyches landing.

Mr.

Bell, any updates.

Good evening, commissioners.

Uh staff has no updates on the staff report.

We did receive three calls and one email from citizens, all of whom live in the Stone Gate community, and they were all basically asking about the September lane connection.

Um staff had an initially requested that be connected to the development, however, um, because they're providing the connection kind of north-south to obsidian way.

Um, and they get connectivity and and an additional access through that point.

Um we were fine with them just leaving September lane closed off and only providing pedestrian access at that point.

So that's all I got.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

Bell.

Commissioners, any conflicts?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

Any objection to placing on the consent agenda?

Seeing none, item one will be placed on the consent agenda.

Next item.

Item two, 960 Bells Mill Road.

Ms.

Peebles.

Updates for us.

Good evening, Commissioners.

We've received one phone call inquiring about the project and the wetlands on it, but other than that, um, we've received no other comments.

Thank you very much.

Uh commissioners, conflicts with the application.

Any questions for staff?

Any of uh discussion?

Any objection to placing on the consent agenda?

All right, item two, consent agenda.

Next item, item three, Perry Street House.

Ms.

Neal.

Updates.

Good evening, commissioners.

Uh, we've received no citizen comments, and I have no updates on this item.

Okay, thank you very much.

Commissioners, any conflicts?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

Any objection to placing on the consent agenda?

All right, item three will be placed on the consent agenda.

Next item, item four, Bainbridge Boulevard.

Mr.

Bell.

Updates.

We have no updates on this application.

Uh we did receive one comment form from Brad Moore with the South Norfolk Civic League.

Should have been forwarded on to you guys, just basically uh echoing staff's concerns and agreeing with the denial.

So thank you, Mr.

Bell.

Commissioners, any conflicts?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

All right.

Since this is for denial, it will be placed on the regular agenda.

Next item is item five, battlefield fuel supply and car wash.

Ms.

Ott, any updates for us?

Good evening.

There are no updates and no public comments.

Thank you, Ms.

Ott.

Commissioners, any conflicts with the application?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

Any objection to placing this item on the consent agenda?

Okay.

Item five will be placed on the consent agenda.

Next item, item six, dwellings farm.

Ms.

Neal.

Updates for us.

No updates for you all tonight, but we have received one comment in support and one comment in opposition.

Thank you very much.

Commissioners, any conflicts?

Questions for staff.

Any discussion?

Any objection to place up this item is recommended for denial, so it will be placed on the regular agenda.

All right, next item.

Item seven, 2045 comprehensive Chesapeake Comprehensive Plan.

Mr.

Finn.

Yes, good evening, Commissioners.

I have two updates for you tonight.

So the first on Tuesday morning, staff distributed an update to the staff report that included and the updated master transportation plan.

That'll be considered along with the October 1st version of the Chesapeake 2045 comprehensive plan.

Staff has already gone ahead and uh provided a resolution stating as such.

I believe Jimmy's gonna provide some additional uh information.

Um as for other updates, staff has also distributed um a letter of support from the Chesapeake Board of Chesapeake Architectural Review Board.

Um that makes the total numbers of letters of support um from city council appointed boards uh to seven, uh which is great.

And then staff has received one comment in opposition, um two emails with questions, one regarding um levels of service policy and another about uh the current version of the plan being considered by planning commission uh here tonight, and then also a letter from the Chesapeake Sustainability Network.

Um to address that letter specifically, uh staff made several changes to the October 1st or made several changes reflected in the October 1st uh Chesapeake 2045 comprehensive plan um as a result of receiving that letter um in September, um adding two new policies, uh expanding five additional policies, and made several changes to the supportive text of the document.

Um while the provided language may have been modified and in some cases omitted to maintain a consistent tone within the document.

Uh staff believes the October 1st version uh being considered tonight properly reflects the visions of residents, community leaders, and additional stakeholders.

And happy to answer any questions.

Mr.

Fairn, were you you just addressing um Mr.

Ross's letter?

Yes, okay, which is uh Mr.

Ross drafted a letter on behalf of a newer group within the city, which is the Chesapeake Sustainability Network.

I believe it's a coalition of environmentally oriented groups within the city, not necessarily city council appointed, but made up of groups like concerned with wetlands, the Autobahn, I think is another member, uh yes, Mr.

Ross uh draft provided at the draft letter.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Finn.

Uh Commissioners, any conflicts with the plan?

Any questions for staff?

Um MTP and your comments.

Okay, very good.

Uh any discussion, Commissioners?

All right.

Any objection to placing this item on the consent agenda?

All right, for now, we will put it on the consent agenda.

All right, next item.

Item eight, parking requirements amendment.

Mr.

Hannigan, updates?

Good evening, Commissioners.

Uh staff has no updates to the staff report or anything related to this, and we also did not receive any comments from the public on this amendment.

All right, thank you very much.

Commissioners, any conflicts?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

Any objection to placing on the consent agenda?

All right.

Item eight will be placed on the consent agenda.

And our final item of the evening is item number nine, final subdivision plat, medium and size requirements.

Mr.

Bell, any updates?

Oh, Miss Peebles.

Hello again, everyone.

I have no staff updates at this time, and we have received no um public comment on it either.

Thank you, Ms.

Peevles.

Uh Commissioners, any conflicts with the application?

Any questions for staff?

Any discussion?

Any objection to placing on the consent agenda?

Seeing none.

Item I will be placed on the consent agenda.

So right now our cons uh consent agenda consists of the following items.

One, two, three, five, seven, eight, and nine.

And our regular agenda, um, items four and six.

Everybody good with that?

All right.

Next order of business uh planning commission committee reports.

Any commissioners have anything to report?

All right, thank you.

Next we will have uh upcoming items.

Uh summary of new public hearing applications received.

Mr.

Bostoy.

Good evening, Commissioners.

We have two new applications, and one is a conditional use permit and one rezoning for this month.

Excellent.

Thanks, sir.

Initiated text amendments.

Ms.

Neal.

We have no initiated text amendments to report this month.

Hey, all right.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Now we'll turn the floor over to Mr.

Bagnamera for uh comp plan comments.

Good evening.

So we'll start off with a couple of the small area plans first and then we'll get into the uh master transportation plan.

But first one we're gonna talk about tonight is the Deep Creek Area Plan.

Uh so we had a community meeting on September 17th, and we had around 60 folks that came out there.

It was a really good meeting, got some really good responses there, had some good conversations.

Uh so we'll be taking those that that input and continuing to work the policies as it's related to the document.

Um, but we are getting mighty close to actually having something that will be ready for for uh for city council consideration here or for plan commission consideration uh coming up next year.

So uh we anticipate the a public draft will be out there and we'll be looking to get comments soon.

So the next one that we'd like to talk about is our transfer development rights program.

So I had this one for the first time last month.

Um so the the biggest news was today we did a we had a city council retreat.

We were able to brief council on where we're at with the project at this time uh and got some pretty good reception.

Uh so I believe we we're heading in a good direction at this point.

Uh we'll be going back out to the community and having further conversations as it relates to the to the program to make sure that we're heading in the right direction.

Um thing I will say, uh this is just when we're talking about preservation type efforts.

I would like to put it out there on the record that uh our latest round of land conservation programs is up and running.

So folks who are interested uh in in this program, we have uh two upcoming uh meetings, I believe on the 15th of and the is the 21st, October 21st and the 15th.

Uh so folks who are interested in participating in this this purchase of development rights program, uh we will be having those meetings, so check the website for for additional information on that.

But really excited to get that round underway and really excited to say that we've had had some pretty good progress with the TDR program as well.

And no new news really to to uh to report at this time with the Western branch area plan.

We anticipate that this will be out on the market uh very soon.

Uh so we're we're looking to uh procure a a consultant to help us out with this plan.

Um our project manager will be Olivia Knox, uh, who will be our planner from the competence of planning division that will be leading this study, but a lot of the background data is being worked on right now, the the existing conditions, that type of information, so that when we get the consultant on board, we'll be ready to hit the ground running.

Okay.

So for tonight, the master transportation plan.

Um so what you're gonna what you see with the master transportation plan is largely what we have uh had on the master transportation plan for some time.

Not a whole lot of changes.

Uh there's a fly.

Um what we want to you know emphasize here is that a lot of the improvements that are that are required with this plan are you know uh sufficient for the uh for the the type of growth and development that we're looking for.

A lot of it are now is just getting these funded and on the ground.

Uh some of the major changes that I will point out.

So in Western branch, there's been quite a bit of of development since the last master transportation plan, uh in particular to the west of I-664.

Uh there has been some uh movement of uh the main roads in there and uh and the reduction of one of the main roads just due to the fact that uh Java Landing was approved and that road is no longer necessary based on what's on the ground out there.

There's been some other changes as well, some minor alignment changes in particular as it relates to uh the the Centerville area.

Uh so Centerville Turnpike, there has been some modification to uh the alignment to to accommodate where the where the uh the the future Centerville Bridge will be.

Uh same thing with the North Landing Bridge.

Uh so there's been some minor modifications there.

Uh and I think the biggest change in particular with this plan is you're going to see the addition of a lot of two-lane roadways that are new, uh, particularly in the area of Grassfield and uh in Greenbrier.

These roadways are called for by the small area plans that have been adopted by City Council, and we thought that it would be prudent to include these as part of our master transportation plan because these roadways, although they're only two lanes, uh they do make up the core backbone of these new areas as they develop and they really uh emphasize the connectivity that's gonna be necessary as these areas continue to develop.

So these aren't necessarily new roadways uh from from a standpoint that they haven't been in the small area plans before.

We're just now putting those onto the master transportation plan so that when development proposals do come through that we're able to you know include those as master transportation plan roadways uh when developers uh are proposing their projects.

Uh but in large part that's the master transportation plan.

I'd be glad to answer any questions that you have.

Commissioners.

So tonight we are considering it is this because it's an update to the NTP, I guess it's no different than any other update component of the comprehensive plan.

So this is being substituted into the plan, and when we approve the comp plan tonight, we're also recommending approval of this as well.

That's correct.

So this is one action that the resolution would cover both the update of the comp plan and the master trace transportation plan as part of the comprehensive plan.

And it's all or done, right?

So if say the commission was uncomfortable with what they're seeing right here, we would have to continue or take action on the whole comp plan item in order to address this separately.

Is that correct?

So I will certainly rely on legal counsel, but it's my understanding that you know we do have time in between now with planning commission and city council consideration.

So there may be minor modifications that are made to uh both documents uh if there's something that's brought up.

Um so I I believe you could certainly take action and we'll make sure that's included in the minutes if there's something that we are noting that needs to be changed.

That gives us the opportunity to change it between now and city council's consideration.

Yeah, I'm just more it's more the issue of timing.

You know, there was just so little time to look at this and process it and you know it it does look minor uh at first glance, but just you know not having the time to digest it.

You don't know what you don't know sort of thing.

Any other commissioners?

Comments, questions.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

McMarrett and Mr.

Finn.

Okay.

Uh let's see, that brings us to the um end of the pre-meeting.

Couple things.

Yes.

I do have a question.

Uh Mr.

Chair, uh, with your question about uh the timing of receiving this, uh we have put this on for consent agenda.

Do you want to move this to regular agenda?

I'm not sure yet.

Okay.

That's uh not yet.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Um so couple of uh couple of things uh would like to talk about.

First, uh when we vote tonight, everyone just be mindful we do have a couple uh items recommended for denial.

So if you are in support of the denial, you vote yes, right?

It's a green vote.

Just to have something, you know, have that in your head.

Um and if you are against the denial, vote no, the red button.

Uh, we'll be having our uh annual commission elections.

So we need to start thinking about uh who we want to fill these seats.

Uh, just so the commission uh is aware.

Uh I'll be rolling off the commission uh in December, as well as Mr.

Cruz will be rolling off the commission.

Um, Clint's decided not to be reappointed, which is bad news, but I know it's a good decision for him personally.

So he said he decided not to be reappointed.

So unless something changes between now and December, um, these two seats will be open.

So everybody just start thinking about that.

And if you may have some interest, reach out to me or or Clint, and we can we can talk with you about it.

All right.

Anything else we need to talk about?

Yes, Mr.

Bostwick.

I just want to bring to the Commission's attention that the November meeting will now fall on November thirteen.

The reason being Veterans Day is November eleventh.

That's the second Tuesday.

So council's meeting is moved to the Wednesday, which bumps us to the Thursday.

So please plan accordingly for November thirteenth, the Thursday to have your planning commission meeting.

Thursday, November thirteenth.

That will be our next public hearing.

Hopefully, everybody can make it.

And if you can't, please let me know sooner rather than later, so we can we at least need to have a quorum that evening.

If not, our pre-meeting is adjourned at six twenty-five.

May I have the attention of everyone in the council chambers and those outside in the lobby.

Tonight's planning commission meeting is scheduled to begin in fifteen minutes.

If you wish to speak at tonight's meeting, we ask that you complete and submit a speaker card before the meeting begins.

Speaker cards are available on the table outside the council chambers.

We ask that you print your name and addressably on the space provided on the cards, as well as the agenda item that you wish to comment on.

Please submit your completed speaker card to the planning commission secretary before the meeting is called to order.

May I have the attention of everyone in the council chambers and those outside in the lobby?

Tonight's planning commission meeting is scheduled to begin in five minutes.

If you wish to speak at tonight's meeting, we ask that you complete and submit a speaker card before the meeting begins.

Speaker cards are available on the table outside the council chambers.

Planning Commission public hearing for October 8th, 2025 is now in session.

Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

For those who wish to participate, you're invited to remain standing for the invocation.

Commissioner Cruz will lead the Pledge of Allegiance.

The invocation will be offered by Commissioner Gilman.

We gather here today as stewards of our community, neighbors, leaders, and citizens, united by a shared purpose to serve with integrity, compassion, and vision.

May this meeting be guided by wisdom, collaboration, and a deep commitment to the well-being of all who call this place home.

As we discuss, plan, and make decisions, let us be mindful of the comprehensive plan that reflects our collective hopes and aspirations.

Together, let us rise to the moment.

Together, let us serve.

Mr.

Boster, please call the role.

Speakers who violate the rules of the public hearing will receive one verbal warning within the course of the evening.

Upon planning commission action of either approval or denial, the remainder of the item shall be heard by city council next month on either the third or fourth Tuesday beginning 6 30 p.m.

right here in this chamber, unless otherwise announced tonight.

Citizens may contact the city clerk's office or the planning department the Friday after the planning commission meeting to find out on which date the item will be heard by city council.

Okay, our first order of business tonight is the consideration of requests to continue an item.

In the case of continuance, this is the planning commission's policy to continue the item as requested by the applicant.

Mr.

Boswick, are there any requests for continuance?

We have no items requesting continuance.

Thank you, sir.

So the next order of business tonight is our consent agenda.

Um the consent agenda contains those items that the planning staff alleys are unopposed and have a favorable staff recommendation.

Speakers on items placed on the consent agenda will be given a total of five minutes to address the commission.

If you have an objection to an item being placed on the consent agenda, please note your objection when you address the commission.

Commissioner Hackworth, are there any items on the consent agenda in which there are three or more speakers in opposition?

There are.

Okay, what items are those, please?

That would be item number one and item number seven.

Okay, so item one, psyches landing, and item seven, the 2045 comprehensive plan will be moved to our regular agenda.

So at this point, the consent agenda is as follows.

Items two, three, five, eight, and nine.

Everybody concur.

All right.

Mr.

Bostwick, please read the consent agenda items into the record.

The first item is item two.

The project is well, the app number is PLN-REZ-2025-012.

The project is 960 Bells Mills Road.

The applicant is Cohen Residential LLC.

The owner is Garden Homes LLC.

The agency is MAS LD Development Service Group.

The proposal is a conditional zoning reclassification of approximately 5.5 acres from M2, General Industrial District to R10S, Residential District, 1.1 acres, and C1, Conservation District, 4.4 acres.

The location is 960 Bells Mills Road in the Great Bridge Planning Area.

Based on the findings contained in the staff report, staff recommends that PLN dash REZ-2025-012 be approved with the proffers as listed in the official agenda.

Next we have item three, PLN-USC-2025-012.

The project is Perry Street House-SNBOD.

Applicant owner is Chesapeake Land Bank Authority.

The proposal is a conditional use permit to allow one single family detached residential structure in the South Norfolk Business Overlay District.

The location is 1332 Perry Street in the South Norfolk Planning Area.

Based on the findings contained in the staff report, staff recommends that PLN dash USC-2025-012 be approved with the stipulations as listed in the official agenda.

Next we have item number five.

PLN dash USC dash 2025-021.

Project is Battlefield Fuel Supply and Car wash.

Applicant owner is 512 Battlefield LLC.

Agency is Kinzer, Leftwich, and Cayley, PC.

The proposal is a conditional use permit to allow a car wash and a motor vehicle fuel supply.

The location is 512 Battlefield Boulevard North in the River Crest Planning Area.

Based on the findings contained in the staff report, staff recommends that PLN dash USC-2025-021 be approved with the stipulations as listed in the official agenda.

Next we have item eight, which is PLN dash TXT-2025-003.

The project is parking requirements amendment.

The proposal is an ordinance amending appendix A of the City Code entitled Zoning.

Article 19, sections 19-404, 19-405, 19-410, 19-411, and 19-412, and enacting Article 19, sections 19900, 19901, 19902 to provide for appropriate reductions of and flexibility in required parking.

Based on the findings contained in the staff report, staff recommends that PLN dash TXT-2025-003, version dated August 29, 2025, be approved as listed in the official agenda.

The last item on our consent agenda is item nine.

It is PLN dash TXT-2025-008.

The project is subdivision plat medium and size requirements.

The proposal is an ordinance amending Chapter 70 of the City Code entitled Subdivisions, Article 2, Section 70-28, to update the medium and size requirements for final subdivision plates in accordance with changes to regulations promulgated by the Virginia Library Board.

Based on the findings contained in the staff report, staff recommends that PLN dash TXT-2025-008 version dated August 12, 2025, be approved as listed in the official agenda.

Thank you, Mr.

Bostwick.

Commissioner Hackworth, please call the speakers for items on the consent agenda.

First speaker, speaking agenda item number two in support is Sanford Cohen, who has indicated that they're available for questions only.

Next speaker.

Next speaker, speaking on agenda item number five, James A.

Lefwitz, Jr.

Thank you, Mr.

Lefwich.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support of agenda item number five, Vic Nichols.

I'm perfectly okay with this, but name and address, please.

1124, Millate Quarter.

I did want to kind of ask and find out.

There were there was a little bit of back and forth that went on about having certain things so close together.

And I want to make sure that that was looked at in this case and is not a problem.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Nichols.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition of agenda item number eight, Vic Nichols.

Oh, you know my address.

This is an easy one.

My concerns with reducing required parking is this.

Are you going to still have disabled parking?

And if you have disabled parking and you make fewer parking spaces for regular people, they use disabled parking as the I'm only going to be here five minutes, or I have kids, or I have this, and then they block off those spaces.

Seen it happen quite a bit.

So I want to know that that was kind of taken into consideration there as the effects that it's going to have on other people.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Nichols.

That was our last speaker.

Concludes the speakers.

Thank you.

Commissioners, any discussion for the items on the consent agenda.

All right, hearing none.

A motion is an order.

Mr.

Chairman, Mr.

Will.

Who was the first speaker that we acknowledge?

I just wanted to.

Oh, okay.

Thank you, sir.

I just want to make sure.

Thank you.

Okay.

All right.

So a motion is now in order for the approval of the consent agenda with the applicable stipulations or proffers as read into the record by Mr.

Bostwick.

So moved.

Second.

Second.

All right.

We have a motion by Commissioner Squalia and a second by Commissioner Malone.

Commissioners, please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

Mr.

Bostrick, please record the vote.

By a vote of 9-0, the motion carries.

Thank you, Mr.

Bostwick.

All right, the next order of business tonight is the regular public hearing agenda.

When there are three or fewer speakers, each speaker will have five minutes to present comments to the commission.

If there are four or more speakers, each speaker will have three minutes to present comments to the commission.

Mr.

Bostwick, please present the first public hearing item.

The first item is item number one, PLN dash REZ-2024-001.

The project is Sykes Landing.

Applicant is KGLLC.

Owners are Wetherington Incorporated, Ronnie Sykes, Leon Sykes, Jacob Gulciano, Danny Reed, Ella Fayson, and Kelvin Faison, Randy Faison, James Faison, Victor Faison, Wanza Faison, Joanne Faison, Carl Faison, Steve Faison, Valerie Harris, the heirs of James W.

Faison.

Agency is Williams Mullen.

The proposal is a conditional zoning reclassification of approximately 43 acres from A1 agricultural district, 34.6 acres, and R 15S residential district, 8.5 acres, to R 10S residential district.

The location is the West West side of Johnstown Road, south of Sykes Drive in the grass field planning area.

Mr.

Bell will now present staff's findings staff offers the following findings.

The proposed development is consistent with the 2035 land use plan map designation of low design density residential and density prescribed by the comprehensive plan for the suburban overlay district.

The proposal also satisfies an action strategy found in the land use section of the comprehensive plan as the site is appropriate in terms of size, access, environmental conditions, public facilities, and compatibility with neighboring uses.

The proposal accomplishes a city council desired outcome of connectivity by making vehicular connections to the Sykes Farm Subdivision to the north and Stonegate Community to the south, which provides both of these neighboring communities with a secondary access point to Johnstown Road.

The plan also includes sidewalks throughout the interior roads and along Johnstown Road, as well as a trail around one of the stormwater ponds, which provides pedestrian connected connectivity.

And the proposed development utilizes smart growth principles as it features a walkable connected site design, attractive building elevations that feature high quality materials and amenities for the community.

Based on these findings, staff recommends that PLN REZ 2024 001 be approved with the proffers as listed in the official agenda.

Thank you, Mr.

Bell.

Commissioner Hackworth, please call the speakers for the first item.

First speaker speaking in support of agenda item number one, Grady Palmer.

Good evening, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh members of the Planning Commission and City Staff.

My name is Grady Palmer.

My business address 222 Central Park Avenue in the city of Virginia Beach.

It's a pleasure to be here tonight.

Johnstown Estates was my first rezoning.

I and I used to live in Stonegate, so I would drive by Johnstown States every day, uh multiple times.

So I've I watched that community grow up.

Um I'm proud to have represented it, and the applicants for this project were the same uh applicants that did Johnstown Estates.

And I've got a number of friends that live in there, and I think it's a fantastic community, and so I'm excited that we can sort of replicate the community that we've built in Johnstown Estates uh here in Sykes Landing.

Obviously, a lot has changed since we did Johnstown Estate.

So the city's architectural requirements uh uh have have dramatically improved.

Um so the project that's in front of you tonight is something we've been working with staff that meets the quality architecture, uh design uh uh of the of the site, uh, pedestrian connectivity, um, and I'll talk about that in just uh more in just a minute.

But I it's a really good project by some local builders that know this area well and have been in great in the Great Bridge uh building building homes for for many many years.

So it's it's a real pleasure to be here uh on their on their behalf.

You can see on the on the um on the screen here that the proposed layout the the property is currently zoned R15 residential along the the frontage and then the back is is is agricultural.

The family's owned the property for many, many years, and the city has sort of come to them.

Um, and now it's time for them to to to look at doing something different.

And so instead of uh you know looking at a conventional zoning, which would have been a piano key rezoning along Johnstown Road, uh the decision was made to try to come up with a with a uh uh interior uh community uh instead of having multiple access points on Johnstown Road.

Yeah, what we've tried to come up with is a thoughtfully designed community.

We know we have neighbors uh uh to the north in Sykes, uh Stonegate uh to our uh west in our south, and so this is this is classic kind of infill.

You've got the the new community being developed across the street, so it's kind of the hole in the donut uh if you will.

Uh the family is has been at what they were what they've been doing for a long time out there, and so that's why it looks the way it looks.

And so I think it is certainly the right time to look at uh building this community.

Um, and I want to thank staff for working with us and getting this uh planning commission ready.

Um I do want to talk a little a few minutes about pedestrian connectivity, because this is one of things that I've I've lived in this corridor for many, many years.

Uh and walking up Johnstown Road uh was always something that was uh ill-advised.

And now we're starting to see the multi the multi-use path uh on the eastern side from drawn uh to the north has come online.

That that was a huge improvement.

Uh we're building sidewalks, and uh and I'll get my last point out here and I'll hold for questions, but you know, there's gonna be a crosswalk uh across Johnstown Road.

The pedestrian connectivity part is really starting to come together out here, and there's some exciting developments in that front uh to come.

So thank you.

I'll stand by for questions.

Yep, thank you, Mr.

Palmer.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Molly Evans.

Good evening.

Um I'm Molly Evans.

I actually live on Sykes Drive at 545 Sykes Drive.

Um, my main concern with this build out is the amount of houses they plan on putting in.

Um we received that in the mail already, and it's counting approximately over just over a hundred houses from what we all received in the neighborhood.

It just seems like there's not enough space for them.

The land right there floods every time it rains already, so putting that many houses in gives me a lot of concern for more storm water hitting our drains, which are already caving in on the our street alone.

The all most of the street drains have already started to cave in and had to be repaired multiple times.

It's only gonna continue to get worse if more houses are built.

Um I appreciate the gentleman addressing the issue with Johnstown Road being so busy.

Um my kids and I bike to school and home every day, and we have to cross Johnstown Road and ride on, and there's no sidewalk, no crosswalk.

Um so I'm glad that that's gonna happen.

If this does pass, I would hope that that gets done first rather than last um because the amount of traffic on that road has already increased.

Um I also think the road traffic on Johnstown has gotten really bad to the point that with the amount of houses going in, the speed limit should be lowered at the very least because cars are flying down that road.

Um, they're not paying attention to what's happening, and with that path having been built, there's a lot more people on it.

Um, and I have seen cars almost even swerve into the path that people are on.

So the cars are going really, really fast.

So I don't want to say I'm totally against new houses being built.

I appreciate that it's going to be more walkable because we do like to go out and walk into Stone Gate, walk into Johnstown estates already.

Um I just fear that the issues that are currently there are only going to compound as more houses get built.

That's it.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Evans.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Greg.

I guess it's Matis.

Greg Mato's 1302 Equinox Landing.

My house backs up to this land, and currently we have plenty of trees, so we don't even barely see the land.

My concern is that they're gonna come in, level that, and then we're just gonna look at construction for a couple years.

Um I've been reading some of this about maintaining some of the existing trees.

Um there's even a part in here that says they suggested planting trees within a wooden buffered area between lots where rear property lines uh but another lot to make up for the loss of tree canopy.

Um it's very vague.

Um there's something about 20% tree canopy coverage.

It's just all very vague, and some of it says that that'll be determined once the construction begins, and it's just not very clear on what's gonna happen with those trees right along the broad um the side here.

You can see it going up uh parallel to Stone Gate Parkway.

It's not many, it's only about 20 feet of trees, but that alone will provide a little bit of privacy, a little bit of uh sound barrier when they're doing construction.

There's probably about 10 or 15 houses that back up to that.

So I just want a little bit more clarity on what's gonna happen with those trees.

Um there's no reason to take them down.

So that's all I have to say about that.

Thank you.

All right, thank you, Mr.

Mattis.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Jennifer Knight.

Hi, good evening.

My name is Tom Knight.

I actually live at your mic's not on.

Hi, good evening.

I'm Jennifer Knight, and I live on Balahack Road.

Um I um really wasn't gonna speak on this tonight, but I was driving down Johnstown Road and I saw the orange signs, and I'm gonna echo what the gentleman um before me just shared.

I have some concerns about it, looks like there are two really old growth trees.

I think they're live oaks.

I'm not sure.

But they're growing so closely together, they look like one gigantic beautiful tree.

Um, and just a really quick Google.

Um, I'm wondering if there's been a tree assessment done.

What's a tree assessment?

It evaluates trees based on factors like age, diameter, structural complexity, um, species, composition to just to determine if they fit the criteria for old growth tree.

I noticed that city council funded a urban forester position on July 1, um, but that position has never posted.

We desperately need um some kind of forester arborist, something to help in scenarios like this.

I'm also concerned, like I I hear everybody saying grass field, and I think about it, and I'm like, yeah, I guess the kids there do go to Grassfield, but it this this suburban development is inching closer and closer to our rural overlay district, which I'll talk more about tonight.

That gives me some heartburn.

Um, also want to know which watershed is this in?

Is it the Elizabeth River watershed or the Northwest River watershed?

Because there are certain protections in each one of those watersheds, Northwest also connecting to Pamico Sound watershed protections for those trees.

So we could look into that.

Um 43 acres of A1 land loss.

I think City Council has been pretty clear about they want to protect um land zoned A1.

Um I'm only one person.

I don't travel down Johnstown Road as much as this sweet lady and her little boy, but I'm not seeing the connectivity piece.

I'm seeing sidewalks to nowhere.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Ms.

Knight.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Sal.

They were goddess.

Thank you.

Um 929 Cantor Street, Salvatore Dear Goddess.

Uh I've got several issues here.

Uh I think uh some of the some of them have already been sort of addressed.

Uh I would like to say that uh building houses is going to open up issues for more flood waters.

Um I know that that was touched on.

But I would also like to add in uh I know it was spoken of that it would help the environment.

I don't see uh how that happens because I know that I listened to other people that are in other areas of Great Bridge where the city has been residentialized, and they complain of power outages in the Stone Gate area.

I've lived here for two years now.

And very rarely, if ever, do we have a power outage?

And if it is, it's very short-lived.

Building more homes over in this area is going to contribute to more power outages.

That's one of the other environmental issues.

Uh I would love to see sidewalks on on Johnstown Road, but having sidewalks does not require us to have more homes.

Sidewalks are a necessity all around Great Bridge, so the children don't have to walk on the road or ride their bikes on the road.

I believe we all have have heard of an accident that happened on South Battlefield Boulevard not too long ago, where a young child got ran over.

And we don't need to continue to happen or have the chance of happening, even on Johnstown Road.

Um there's a lack of schools for the children in Great Bridge.

Adding more homes is only gonna contribute to the school ratings dropping.

My fiance moved here three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, because the school ratings were outrageous.

The school ratings are dropping like a rock right now because you the houses keep getting built, and there's not a there's not enough teachers to handle all the influx of students that are coming into the schools.

We need more schools, not more houses.

That's what the city needs.

I know my my stepson is talking to us, and he said last year his bus was half full.

This year, since they build Stony Lake across the road.

His bus is now packed.

Three kids a seat.

You add in another neighborhood, and that's only going to become tenfold.

This is not to mention that these houses are $500,000 or more.

Somebody has to be very well off to be able to afford these houses.

This isn't low-income housing.

So who is this benefiting?

Thank you, sir.

Time's expired.

Thank you.

Next speaker, please.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Belinda Simica.

You can go to the back podium if you'd like.

Okay, now can you hear me?

Hi, my name is Belinda Samika, and I live at 1504 Avery Trace in Stonegate subdivision.

I'm coming to voice my concerns about the new subdivision that is backing up to us, gaining entrance and exit to their neighborhood through our parkway.

Stone Gate subdivision is a sought-after neighborhood, and especially for the families with children.

Stonegate has been only one way in and one way out since the very beginning, and I was one of the first houses built in that development, so I know.

Stone Gate is sought after because it is considered a safe neighborhood that offers opportunities to attend excellent schools, allows for family bike rides, children playing outside with other children, people walking their dogs, and families taking walks together.

And especially with all the traffic in and out of the neighborhood for the homes that are already there.

There are over 300 homes in that neighborhood, and it spans almost three miles wide.

We have one way in, one way out, and we've been able to manage it all this time.

I was happy to hear that September Lane will not be open to the new subdivision.

I am not happy that the new subdivision is gaining entrance and exit to Stone Gate Parkway through Obsidian Way.

There will be a night this will be a nightmare for the people living on that street.

I don't know if anybody's had a chance to go over and observe it, but it's going to be a straight shot through, and all those people with children are really going to have a time with it.

Let's see, because of the increase in traffic.

If they have children, they will have to be extra cautious due to all the traffic passing through.

Because Obsidian Way is located at the beginning of Stonegate Parkway, it is going to back up traffic onto Johnstown Road.

And especially during rush hour traffic and while the school buses are trying to turn into Stonegate.

Right there, as soon as you make you can't really see what's around until you start to turn into Stone Gate Parkway.

And it's the first place that you come to is where they're wanting it to go straight across.

Not only will it come straight across, but the the traffic will they don't want to come into our neighborhood.

They want to get out to Johnstown Road again.

So they have to cross our entranceway, which traffic is going through, cross over to the other side, and then back out on Johnstown.

That's not in the best interest of the 300 families that are in and that are in Stone Gate.

And I heard it was more like 150 houses being built in there.

Why they can't have a way in and a way out just like us.

Why take a situation and make it worse for Stonegate so that somebody else is at ease when they develop their plans?

Like someone else said about the flooding that goes on there, as I'm looking at that and I'm looking where I'm assuming that's the retention ponds that are at the very beginning of Johnstown.

That's going to be a nightmare.

Okay.

Ma'am, your time's expired.

I'm sorry.

Your time is expired.

Thank you.

Somebody may call you back for questions.

Next speaker.

That concludes our speakers.

Okay.

Thank you.

Mr.

Bell, just real quick.

These this neighborhood will be zoned for Great Bridge schools, not Grassfield.

Is that right?

I believe that's correct, yes.

Yeah, thank you I thought I heard Grassfield, but I think it is Great Bridge.

The planning area is Grassfield.

But it doesn't necessarily correspond with schools to go to.

Yep, thank you.

And I believe if one of the proffers just to answer the one of the last comments that were made, proffer two limits it to 105 homes, not 150.

So 105 homes is the max.

Okay.

Uh Commissioners, uh, any discussion for this item or any questions.

Commissioner Ackworth?

Um Mr.

Palmer, I got I guess I do have one question.

Uh you know, there was there was a concern that came up about the flooding in the area.

Uh and just about, you know, that they've had some repair work done.

So can you just address a little bit about what's being done uh to mitigate any any flooding that may occur?

So the site will be comprehensively planned for stormwater management during site plan review.

Uh and and you heard it the stormwater uh detention ponds, those are ponds that will detain stormwater on site.

So we are required to measure how much uh uh stormwater exits the site today.

Post-development has to be the same amount of flow.

So, in other words, um right now rain hits the the water the ground and it and it goes out.

And so post-development, we can't we have to live within that same parameter.

Um thing that will also occur that does not occur now is a stormwater system to channelize rainwater.

So rainwater will be captured onto the streets within the streets, and then there'll be it'll be channeled to the stormwater management ponds to be held and then slowly released on down the drainage system.

So as it stands right now, water just runs where it runs.

And so with the development going in, water will be captured and channeled to a to a stormwater design system.

So that does not exist on the site right now.

Thank you.

Uh Ms.

Barmer, uh, since you hear uh there was a comment about a question regarding uh environmental analysis regarding the trees.

And I know here in the proffer it talks about uh maintaining some of the tree lines.

Could you talk a little more about uh what developers have regarding the existing trees and creating buffers uh for those property owners.

It's it's always important in this situation when when you're when you're working around existing developed communities to try to preserve as much as you can of what they have.

And now what they have is on not on their property, but it's still important to do that.

And so, you know, what we'll do uh going into the site, and that's why the proffer is written the way that it is, um, is that because once you start taking some trees down, uh, you know, sometimes they're not as um uh it's not as robust as you want, so that's why we'll come in and plant to to create the buffer that that they have now.

But the proffer that the developers are willing to commit to is to go in, select trees that can be preserved as many as it can be preserved, and then plant back trees that can't be preserved, so you create a visual buffer for neighbors.

Thank you.

Other commissioners, all right.

A motion is in order.

Mr.

Chair, uh motion to approve uh PLL uh R E Z 2024 001 with the state of proffers.

Do we have a second?

I'll second.

All right, we have a properly made motion by Commissioner Cruz and a second by Commissioner Gilman.

Commissioners, please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

Mr.

Bostwick, please record the vote.

By a vote of nine to zero, the motion carries.

Thank you, Mr.

Bostwick.

Uh please read the uh next regular hearing item into the record.

The next item is item number four.

It's PLN dash USC-2025-014.

The project is Bainbridge Boulevard SNBOD residential.

The applicant is balanced builders incorporated, owners balance builders incorporated, and Loma LLC.

The proposal is a conditional use permit to allow four single-family detached residential units in the South Norfolk Business Overlay District.

The location is 1312 and 1320 Bainbridge Boulevard in the South Norfolk Planning Area.

Mr.

Bell will now present staff's findings.

Staff offers the following findings.

The proposed development proposes four access points with minimal spacing along a busy arterial road with speeds higher than typically found in residential neighborhoods.

This configuration creates an unsafe condition, especially considering most vehicles leaving these residents, residences would need to back out onto Bainbridge Boulevard.

And the proposal, while consistent with elements of the 2035 comprehensive plan, does not accomplish a city council desired outcome and does not promote commercial revitalization and intent of the South Norfolk Business Overlay District.

Based on these findings, staff recommends that PLN USE 2025 014 be denied.

Thank you, Mr.

Bell.

Commissioner Ackworth, please call the speakers.

First speaker speaking in support, Jeffrey Wallace.

No.

You got to push a button.

Thank you.

Let me try again.

Jeffrey Wallace, uh 2525 O'Connor Avenue, Virginia Beach, 23454.

Um my brother Paul Wallace and myself are the owners of Balance Builders, and obviously I'm in support of the project.

Um this particular product we have honed over uh many years.

Um let me go back.

We we've been building it up for 30 years, uh, much of which was in South Norfolk.

Uh we built Crossbridge Commons, we built Hill Middle Street, uh Country Road.

I could go on, I counted them up a moment ago, over 60, 70 houses in South Norfolk, and then we went on to other pastures and spent the past several years in Norfolk uh building in Park Place and Lambert's Point almost exclusively.

Uh they have nearly identical architectures, uh time frames and all those uh different characteristics, and so um our product uh fits well in the South Norfolk area.

This particular house we have built uh and designed, we design all our own homes.

Um we designed this one years ago uh in Park Place and have built it uh over 40 times and sold it very successfully and to great accolades.

Uh I have several elevations for it, and I'm able to adjust it to fit all kinds of situations.

I also have several other designs, not a one-trick pony.

Uh in this situation, what I wanted to do was defend, I don't think anybody uh questions the product.

It seems the only question is whether or not I can have four aprons or two.

And so I just wanted to come and defend why I oppose the uh two different propositions that they gave me.

One was to offer a turnaround space in the backyard.

Um again, this product very successful.

This would be a detriment.

I would add a considerable of concrete, taking away the green space, which is a good family space for kids to play.

It's a really well-rounded product, but I won't go on selling it.

Moving the garage one way and creating a hammerhead suggests that people will turn around and come out nose first, but it also suggests there's only one car involved.

Many families have two, three cars would have to back out eventually.

It also suggests that just because you provide it, they will actually obey it.

You know, who's going to turn around every single time?

You would have to actually pull into the garage.

You have to open the door, and turn around.

The second configuration, same thing, but they attached it to my house and changed the entire view of the backyard.

So to that end, that suggestion is just not practical.

People are going to back out anyways.

The shared driveway proposition.

This is definitely a detriment to value.

Uh what we offer is a full package.

Every house we build, we provide a very nice cedar fence and we provide uh window blinds, the full turnkey experience, because many of our buyers are military.

They come into town and they want it ready to go because they have to ship out soon.

And so we provide all that cartilage, all that personal space, and to share it with the driveway would be a loss of value.

And so you also suggest that this would somehow either A, reduce the number of cars, which it would not, people have the number of cars they have, or B that they would automatically again not back out on the street.

So the two apron uh suggestion does not solve any of the alleged problems.

I understand the 35 uh mile per hour speed limit and it being an artery slightly faster than 25-hour neighboring streets.

But again, we built this several times throughout parkplace, and two of the main arteries through there, uh 26 and 27th Street are very fast.

They go 35 and in Norfolk, not a lot of people obey the speed limit, but I digress.

Those houses, the same exact configurations, the same exact design, close to the street, garage set back, very desirable, fully fenced, giving you full cartilage, and people back out onto those roads, 35 miles per hour plus.

And there have been no accidents that I'm aware of, or even close accidents, or even reports to my building company that this is a detriment from the city or the buyers.

So that's my defense for it.

Uh I think it's a great product for this neighborhood.

I think they'll be very happy, the citizens in the neighborhood and yourself as well.

And uh you can see by our reasoning success on those Chesapeake land bank lots.

Those built and sold very smoothly, and uh they sold right as I finished them, which is exactly what a builder wants.

I thank you for your time.

I value your decision, and I hope you decide to approve.

Have a nice evening.

Thank you, Mr.

Wallace.

Next speaker.

That concludes the speakers.

All right.

Commissioners, any discussion?

Commissioner Berlin?

It's a question for staff.

So the four parcels that are involved in in this uh process, can you talk about what's on either side of those four parcels?

Are those residences also?

So there is an existing residence on the northernmost property um or parcel.

Um, and then uh to the north of that one is I believe a residence.

There's uh a business use at the corner of Jefferson Street, and then uh it's all residential to the south of these.

And those would have entrances to uh the roadway as those as the other four parcels would.

So the ones to the south, um there's actually three buildings there, and they all share two entrances and have parking in the rear.

Um, and then the ones to the north, as well as the one on the subject property, I believe, uh, have their own driveway.

Thank you.

Uh-huh.

Other commissioners.

All right, a motion is in order.

Oh, Commissioner Ackworth?

I I guess I do have one quote.

Uh I was looking at the setbacks, and of course, the, you know, we're talking, I guess, 14 feet from the street, excluding the porches.

Is that the normal of what's of the houses that are on Bainbridge right now, or is it Yeah, and so what we did with the uh recent tax amendment for residential in the South Norfolk Business Overlay District is we left it fairly open-ended as far as setbacks go, um, and just provided guidance that council would approve it as like a stipulation uh and that the main goal was to match what the existing character of the block is.

In this case, they're they're kind of not necessarily established all as one setback, but they do generally range between five feet to 15 feet.

So we thought that 14 feet was was um compatible with that.

So I I just I mean, uh familiar with the area, I guess my concern is just looking how close the houses are with the driveways there and thinking about backing up and knowing that you've only got 15 feet from the the corner of a house to the roadway.

Um I don't know what happens in Norfolk, but I know I know Bainbridge Boulevard pretty well.

So uh I will tell you that's uh that's a huge safety concern for me uh backing out and whether there's an accident or there's been accidents, you know, at this particular area.

I just think that's uh that that's the concern for me.

So other commissioners?

I have one more.

Yep.

Commissioner Lund?

And this is for uh Mr.

Wallace.

Is he still here?

Yes, sir.

So given that the that the existing residences have turnaround areas that are not off of Bainbridge Road, would you consider for consistency purposes doing the same with those properties?

Um sorry, what are you asking me to do to them?

Have a turnaround area that's not off of Bainbridge.

If you look at the the property to the south, um you can you can clearly see cars parked behind the building.

And the property to the north, you can also see the same thing, cars parked behind the buildings.

I think what you're suggesting is that um you do nothing different, you just have them have people back out on a Bainbridge.

And what I am asking you is, would you consider for consistency in the community, since those other two properties have parking in the rear of those buildings?

Would you consider doing the same thing?

Sir, uh you're speaking of just to uh to underneath my proposed uh the very dark area there.

That that entire backyard is a parking lot.

Um it's not what we're providing.

I'm providing a family home with a grass yard that you can put a swing set in, and that's my argument is that uh uh uh two things.

Again, you're suggesting I mean that's then that lot is considerably wider, I'll also point out.

My lots are fifty feet wide, that one's a 75 footer, so he has also additional space.

Um I don't think having a parking lot for a backyard is in continuity with the adjacent historic areas, sir.

And so um while I understand the concerns on backing out, I really do.

Um it is not the raceway people make it to be.

The the proximity of the house again is the same that we did all throughout Norfolk that has the same problem.

Um the density and then the number of cars in modern day.

These are houses conceived in the 1910s and 15s in Norfolk, they had a trolley system, and they have the same problem is cars, right?

We all have them.

But uh to the detriment of uh uh the product, the two I don't have the drawings with me, uh city uh uh person sent me uh backyard drawings, suggestions connect the garage and have a turnaround in that way.

Um suggesting that you have to pull into the garage to turn your car around each time.

Most people would keep stuff in their garage, this kind of thing.

I'm suggesting that what you're asking me to do to a product that I've been very successful with uh will not solve the problem.

It is a nine uh foot narrow way.

That is a 75 foot lot, not a 55 uh 50 footer, and uh it the whole yard.

Look at it, the entire thing.

Where is the grass?

Where is where's the garage?

Uh so I see why you're asking why it couldn't be like the one next door, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Question for the applicant.

Mr.

Wallace?

Yes.

Just real quick, apples to oranges, I know, but you mentioned 26th Street in Norfolk, and I'm born and raised in that area.

Oh, isn't there parking available on the street there?

Uh now, indeed, yes.

They had three lanes.

Uh, it's one way in either direction.

It's a raceway, and even after they added parking and uh bike lane, that was their big push is to get bike lanes in.

Uh, again, you're aware of the the driving and on those two lanes.

And so I would easily argue, uh, I would bet money that the uh traffic count on 26 and 27 street on any given day uh is orders of magnitude higher than Bainbridge.

While Bainbridge is an artery, uh its artery days are actually diminishing.

And Mr.

Um I forget his name, Tate, I believe, uh the engineer who who you know rightfully quoted the book on number of interests should be less, also admitted that the city has considered taking it down to three lanes instead of four, which would be one in either direction and a turn lane, which I would support as a stakeholder in the area as well.

So um again, I uh the success in Norfolk is is very real, and the success on Liberty Street is already proven my product, and I look forward to building these, but it needs to be the product that we need.

And and and that works with the neighborhood.

The entire neighborhood that has driveways has them like this.

It is not unusual.

Uh I would call the one below that a corruption over time if somebody turned the backyard into a parking lot.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Other commissioners.

Excuse me.

Mr.

Spook?

I'm looking at it, and uh born and raised up in the Bainbridge area, and that's the old Bainbridge, as what I'm saying is saying I'm wanting to put some beautiful homes there.

And uh I don't know how that gonna increase the value of a home as one to move in and move out.

And also back onto Bainbridge, uh, especially during the business hours, school hours, how safe would that be on a 50 feet?

On 15 feet from the street.

Yeah, the cross guard comes out every day just to stop everybody getting across.

Um I'm sorry, was the question?

The question is I don't see the safety of that, and also how will to say the reset value of those homes be in that particular business area.

Um I'm sorry, I'm just not following.

I don't feel it don't look safe to back out onto Bainbridge.

How would they feel safe backing out?

Yes, and the next thing is that the resale of those homes in that particular Bainbridge area, would that be feasible for someone to move in and move out?

This area, again, the reason we're here this evening is because this is B2 zoning.

I wouldn't even be here if it was zoned residential.

And it is transitioning again, my argument, and I believe the city agrees because you wrote this in uh January of 2024 to bring builders like myself over to build residential on these arteries in these business areas because the business is not filling the void.

This lot has been vacant for years and years.

I bought it from Mr.

Creekmore right across the street, who has been trying to sell it as a business law for years and years.

I even looked at it, but it did not entice as a business lot.

I was drawn back by your legislation.

This is what I provide.

I cannot guarantee anybody's safety any more than any other safety backing out of a driveway.

Um the the proximity to the street is what it is.

I backed out of the driveway at the existing home there.

And and I understand you have to back up and you have to wait until it is clear.

But it does clear on Bay Ridge.

It's not a highway.

It is a neighborhood artery.

And so I I cannot change the nature of backing out of a driveway, nor can I, in my years of building houses and parkplaces, and throughout Chesapeake in South Norfolk.

I have learned a lot about the behavior of home buyers.

All right.

And Norfolk, they argue for rain barrels, like we live in Norman Rockwell times, and everybody is going to water their garden with a little hat on.

But the fact of the matter is, most people buy my houses barely weed the little bush bed in the front.

And they never sit on the front porches because they have air conditioning in the summertime.

And so behavior is something difficult to control.

Again, you ask me to come with a residential product, and this is a great residential product.

The driveway is what makes it.

And the backyard, the green area, and the separate garage detached, which is more expensive to build makes it.

People are attracted to this product, obviously.

I sell it repeatedly, and this is what I'm offering to.

Thank you, Mr.

Wallace.

Thank you.

Commissioner Squelia.

Mr.

Chair, I have grave concerns about the safety of people leaving those properties, pedestrians walking, and also of motorists driving.

And for that reason, I move to deny.

Second.

Okay, we have a properly made motion by Commissioner Squelia and a second by Commissioner Malone.

The motion is for denial in accordance with the staff report.

So voting yes is for denial.

Commissioners, please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

Mr.

Bostwick, please record the vote.

By a vote of 9 to 0, the motion carries.

Thank you, Mr.

Bostwick.

Please read the next uh item into the record.

The next item is item number six, PLN-USC-2025-024.

The project is dwellings farm bomb.

The applicant is dwellings farm LLC, owner Jessica B.

Diffenbach trustee, Agency Pool Brook Plumley PC.

The proposal is a conditional use permit to operate a meeting and banquet hall on a 41-acre parcel with an alternative parking surface.

The location is 2349 Baum Road in the Southern Chesapeake planning area.

Mrs.

Neal will now present staff's findings.

Staff offers the following findings.

The proposed use will impose substantial impacts on public health safety and welfare by significantly increasing noise, traffic, and light pollution in a rural part of the city and in close proximity to existing residential uses.

The proposed use is inconsistent with the quality of life section of the comprehensive plan and incompatible with adjacent and nearby residential uses that will be impacted by additional traffic noise and lighting associated with the proposed use.

The substantial impacts from this use cannot be adequately mitigated by administratively feasible stipulations.

A reasonably viable economic use of this parcel exists under its current permitted uses.

Based on these findings, staff recommends that PLN USC 2025-024 be denied.

However, if planning commission decides to approve the conditional use permit, stipulations are listed in the official agenda for consideration.

Thank you, Ms.

Neal.

Commissioner Hackworth, please call the speakers.

First speaker speaking in support.

Brian Plumley.

Chairman Gerloff, Vice Chair Cruz, how's everybody tonight?

Everybody doing all right.

Great.

Fantastic.

Honorable members of the Planning Commission, Brian Plumley, 4705 Columbus Street, Virginia Beach.

I you know Grady was speaking of years gone by, and we talked about the Northwest River watershed.

There was a time when the largest planned landfill in the United States was going to go 1,500 feet south of the border of Chesapeake, and I represented the city, and we defeated that landfill from being constructed and protected in Northwest River watershed.

And I have to tell you a banquet hall on a farm will provide your residents the opportunity to experience rural Chesapeake and support the caregivers of the land with some revenue, something other than building landfills, industrial uses, large home development sites.

That's what it is about.

And Chesapeake supports that.

I protect landowner rights.

I've done it for almost 30 years.

My clients, Jessica and Michael Defenbach are hardworking people.

They're two of the nicest people you'll ever want to meet.

I know some of you have had a chance to go out and see this site and appreciate the site.

They're pigs, uh cows, chickens, goats.

Um they've birthed calves out there, they have chickens they get eggs from out there.

There's an area for observing the animals.

This is an application separate from the farm that you approved.

Um I guess it's been a few months ago.

It's a it's a different site.

There are wide entry points for vehicles.

There's not a question of a narrow road or anything of that nature, a lot of parking.

Um there are fewer people that were asking to attend these.

So it's limited to 125 uh people to attend these events there.

This is a 41-acre site on the outskirts of Chesapeake, about as far as away as you can get from the center of Chesapeake.

Um 36 of them are in civil cultural condition.

There are no homes truly very close to this site at all.

Um the closest neighbor, Mr.

Wakefield is 88 and a half feet away.

Think about that.

Most typical buffers between houses about 20, 30 feet max in a city.

This is 88 and a half feet, and he wrote a letter in support of this project.

The other two homes nearby are 350, and this is right out of the staff report and 522 feet away.

We've agreed to a large number of conditions to reducing the time for music and the time that these events can be held.

We've said we'll set up exterior lighting so as not to create glare.

We'll do it under uh the terms and conditions of the city set.

We'll submit to uh fire safety plan, uh emergency safety plan, we'll do a final approval plan uh with the planning department.

We've submitted to all that.

Um it's because we're trying to walk the balance with the city on this project.

Um we have had a number of community outreach meetings.

They're all listed going back months, but they've they've been over and over meeting with their um their folks.

Am I done already?

Well, let me just say this in closing.

There are some people that are opposed to this, but there are many more in favor of it, and including the comprehensive plan, which encures encourages agritourism.

So I I hope you'll favorably consider this.

These are these are important things if we're going to be preserving land.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Plumley.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Michael Diefenbach.

Good evening, uh Chairman and Commissioners.

My name is Michael Diefenbach, and I live at 2441 Bomb Road in Chesapeake.

I'm here tonight to ask for your support and approval of our proposed agritourism venue at our family farm.

We began this journey by hosting a handful of events under special event permits.

The response has been overwhelmingly positive, not just from our guests, but from many of our neighbors as well.

That encouragement is part of what brought us here today.

Throughout the process, my wife and I have made it a priority to engage with our community.

We've hosted open gatherings, met individually with neighbors, and listened carefully to both support and concerns.

We have taken thoughtful steps to ensure that our property continues to be an asset, not a disruption to the community.

We're not just a small, but we're not just small business owners.

We're part of the community, and we value being good neighbors above all else.

We feel incredibly incredibly fortunate to live on a beautiful piece of property in rural Chesapeake.

It's a privilege to share that space with others, friends, neighbors, and visitors, and to deepen the connections that we've built with those people over the years.

For us, this is about more than a business.

It's about preserving open space, honoring the land, and creating something lasting that we can share with future generations.

Across all parts of our property, we're committed to protecting open space, trees, and cropland.

And we've taken that commitment a step further by placing a preservation easement on over 30 acres to ensure it remains undeveloped and safeguarded for years to come.

What's started as a personal dream has grown into a shared experience that brings people together.

That's why I'm here tonight to ask for your support so we can continue sharing what we've built and contribute to the vitality and character of this community.

We're proud to call home.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Diefenbach.

Next speaker speaking in support, Jessica Diefenbach.

Good evening, Chairman and members of the Planning Commission.

My name is Jessica Diefenbach of 2441 Bomb Road, and I'm the owner of Dwellings Farms.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight regarding our request for conditional use permit to host events on our farm.

At its core, our goal is simple: to preserve agricultural land by keeping it active and valuable to our community.

Hosting private events such as weddings, birthday parties, and farm picnics allows us to sustain our farm while sharing the beauty of rural life in a way that respects the character of Southern Chesapeake.

Michael and I, along with our small team, are hands-on in every part of what happens on our farm.

We're the ones cleaning, cutting grass, making repairs, caring for the animals, coming up with creative ideas, planning events for our neighbors and friends, engaging with clients, and celebrating with them on their most special days.

We built this space entirely from the ground up.

We designed, planned, and created every detail ourselves.

What began as a personal dream, a place for our family to enjoy, for me to get my fuzzy cows and start our my little farm has grown into something many want to experience.

Each a beloved part of what makes our venue special.

Guests love being up close and personal with the animals, asking questions, learning about farm life, and even helping with the evening feedings.

Families light up when they get to toss carrots and treats over the fence.

These small moments create a genuine hands-on connection to agriculture that you simply can't experience at most venues.

This combined with the barn and acres of trees creates a true farm setting for guests to enjoy.

Thank you, Mrs.

Defenbach.

Next speaker.

Next speaker, speaking in support, Milton Stademauer.

Good evening, Chairperson, Commissioners, and City Staff.

My name is Mr.

Suttermeyer.

I live at 100 Marcy Street.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here today about dwellings farms.

Dwellings Farms was created with one simple goal to bring people together.

We're not just a venue, we're a place where families, families, couples, and neighbors can gather to celebrate the most meaningful moments from weddings and reunions to community picnics and local gatherings.

What makes us unique is that we combine agricultural heritage with moderate hospitality.

Our property is surrounded by open farmland, a pond, and natural landscapes that showcase Chesapeake's rural beauty.

And we take pride in maintaining that character.

We understand the importance of ensuring our operations align with the city's expectations.

Over the past year, we've worked closely with the planning department to ensure that our use of the property remains safe, compliant, and respectful of our neighbors.

We've already taken steps to address concerns by limiting event hours and noise levels, establishing proper parking and traffic flow, and creating clear policies for waste management, lighting, and guest conduct.

Our goal has never been to disrupt the peace of our community, only to add value to it through responsible stewardship of the land.

Beyond business, we're building something deeper, a place of legacy.

Families will return year after year to celebrate milestones, and couples who marry here will come back with their children to take photos by the same pond or under the same oak tree.

That sense of tradition is something special we want to preserve for generations.

In closing, I respectfully ask the commission to approve our conditional use permit for dwellings farms stands very stands ready to continue being a positive, compliant, and community-minded venue that reflects Chesapeake's values, family, faith, nature, and hard work.

Thank you for your time and for your careful consideration you give to this small business that strives to do things the right way.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Stademeyer.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Jennifer Economy.

Good evening, members of planning commission.

My name is Jennifer Economy, and I reside at 2708 Cedarville Road.

I am here in support of the application for dwellings farms.

I am excited to see an application for a family-owned agro tourism business.

This unique property is on agriculturally zoned land with a beautiful barn and farm animals in a rural setting and the perfect place for a farm experience venue.

My daughter rode horses for many years growing up, and I have seen firsthand how successful agro tourism events on farms can be.

Seeing the smiles on a child's face when it sees that farm on animal for the first time is so heartwarming, and it's inspiring, possibly encouraging others who want that lifestyle, and most likely the reason why I now have my own little farm net with animals nearby.

A few months ago, I attended a Chesapeake Agro tourism workshop.

According to the speakers, hosting events on farms has become increasingly popular, and growth in this industry will continue due to rising consumer interest and experiences that connect people with nature and a more traditional lifestyle.

Events in rural areas not only benefit not only benefits the local economy by job creation and support of other local farms, restaurants, and businesses, but also community building and cultural preservation.

My local hairdresser has done the hairstyle for a bride who had a wedding at this property and had only positive things to say about the venue.

Not long ago, when Greenbrier Farms announced they would no longer be holding public events, the community was heavily disappointed, and the public outcry proved that rural Chesapeake could use more options to hold events in a farmland setting.

Attended an event or even met the applicant.

It seems more like an influence personal attack and not based on the merits of this application.

I have attended several events at this property and was quite impressed.

I have asked the applicant many questions about this project and how he would mitigate certain concerns from a few neighbors.

To me, the applicant has done his due diligence and has offered reasonable proffers.

I hope the city is willing to work with the applicant as other localities have successfully done with agritourism venues in rural areas.

The applicant has also expressed a willingness to host community events for such things as 4-H and Scouting.

What an asset this could be.

And at the agritourism workshop, while giving a comprehensive plan update, Mr.

McNamara stated that small businesses make up the heart of our community.

Agro tourism allows people to connect with the land, its history, and fosters a greater appreciation for the local way of life.

This application is fitting for the area and is not a rezoning, not more high-density housing, not a data center or battery storage facility, and will not add to our overcrowded schools.

I ask that you please vote to approve this application.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Economy.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Linda Tendall.

Good evening.

Linda Tyndall, 1045 West Road.

The dwellings is a fabulous location for a wedding, birthday party, corporate event, political fundraiser, graduation celebration, or family reunion.

It generates tax revenue, provides jobs, and creates a much needed private rural venue option for our citizens.

My son was married last year at a similar similar agricultural property in Mannequin Sabat named Dover Hall.

His bride and her parents could not find anything like it available in our community.

Dover Hall is on a beautiful scenic two-lane rural road that is even narrower than Baum Road.

It is lined with farm fields, deep run hunt club, cattle operations, horse pastures, private homes, bed and breakfast, and vineyards.

Traffic was not an issue.

After all, it was a wedding, not a Luke Bryan concert on a two-lane road.

Their events will not generate 12,920 vehicle trips, like the high density housing project or PUD with 1,292 units on a similar size property in Grassfield called Springton.

This family is asking for a conditional use permit that will complement and help to support their agriculturally zoned property.

How can farmland and open space be preserved if only high density housing and developments are recommended for approval by the planning department?

Or is that the goal of our urban-minded city planners?

To develop everything.

Chesapeake is quickly losing its charm.

Please support these rural residents and help to keep their property in agricultural use.

Their venue does not contribute to school overcrowding or the traffic issues surrounding the schools during parent drop-off and pickup times.

And the noise level will be far less than the football games, track meets, and other sports events held at our local high schools that have been built next to private homes.

And don't get me started about the high-intensity lighting.

The dwellings provides an appropriate agritourism activity and is compatible with the area.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Tyndale.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Mark Brown.

Good evening, Chairman and Planning Commissioners.

My name is Mark Brown.

I live in Blackwater at 5905 Blackwater Road, which is right around the corner from the dwellings farm.

I also own a farm located at 5917 Blackwater Road called Wild Acres Farm.

Our farm is on the Virginia Beach side of Blackwater, and we were just in City Council for a youth recreational training facility on our farm, which was approved.

I feel there is a need for our cities to allow agro-tourism-style projects like these to exist to help landowners sustain the rural land and lifestyle.

When landowners in our rural area have fields planted by a local farmer with crops such as beans or corn, there is not much that the landowner receives for leasing this land.

Twenty-five acres of our farm property is a bean field farmed by a local farmer.

We barely receive enough to cover the land taxes each year.

This is one of the reasons the land around us is being built up more and more.

These properties might mean something to today's generation, but when the next generation comes in, there is no emotional tie to the property and is not worth keeping, so they sell it off.

Projects like the dwellings farm allow owners to enjoy their land and others to enjoy the land as well as the rural lifestyle.

It creates something that the generations will cherish and want to keep agricultural.

I have attended Christmas parties and birthday parties on this property at 2349 Balm Road, and it is a very beautiful property.

They have animals around the barn that greet you when you walk up to the property, which really gives you that country lifestyle vibe.

While explaining where I was going, my daughter said, is that where we feed the animal crackers to the goats?

This showed me how directly impactful the dwellings farm has already been to my family.

I hope the city can approve this project for our area.

Thank you for allowing me to share my support for the dwellings farm.

Thank you, Mr.

Brown.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Cindy Williams.

Good evening.

How are you, Commissioners?

Um, I am Cindy Williams.

I live at 23 2433 Balm Road.

So I'm a close neighbor of both Jessica and Michael's home and the dwellings farm.

Um I just find it very refreshing that this young family has found a way to combine their love of rural life and found a way to also have a small business at the same time.

Um the barn and the surrounding farm animals have truly added beauty and character to our rural road.

There's um, you know, there's no uh so people kind of do whatever they want to do.

Um, and Michael and Jessica have made everything very lovely out there.

Um I think they were there and having events for probably I don't know, maybe a year before I realized they were even having events.

Um it's tucked back off the road.

It never got in the way of me driving up and down Balm Road.

Um, I never heard anything.

Um I just I I find it a beautiful, beautiful venue.

Um, you know, dwellings farm um also, as Jessica was saying, has those pretty fluffy cows that um my mom is somewhat enamored with.

Um, and Michael and Jessica have been very sweet about letting me drive her down and let her hang out with the cows, uh feed them, and just enjoy watching them.

So I really appreciate that too.

Um, you see, Dwellings Farm isn't just about making money, they're also about remembering rural life and sharing it with the people who rent the farm, the neighbors that are living nearby, and Michael and Jessica want to share that with their boys.

They do a lot of farm life stuff, and they haven't talked about their boys very much, but um their boys are living the life.

They're outside playing, hanging out in the mud, taking care of animals, and uh I think it's is truly um wonderful to see uh all of that.

Uh recently, my family had an opportunity to use the venue for a baby shower for my daughter.

Um, Milton, who was just here speaking, um, is on their staff, and he was there the whole time.

He helped park cars, he helped us set up, he helped us break down, he managed everything while we were there.

And it's my understanding that's what he does for every event that's there.

Um the day was beautiful, it was well organized, and all the guests were just um excited, and they felt like they got to do something that they don't normally get to do.

I got a lot of phone calls and text messages about how cool it was to feed goats and get to hang out and do those kind of things there.

So I believe that Michael and Jessica have proven that they're responsible neighbors and they monitor the noise and the traffic, and their events have little or no impact on our neighborhood.

So thank you for listening, and I hope you'll vote in support.

Thank you, Miss Williams.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Jennifer Cobb.

Good evening, planning commissioners.

Uh, my name is Jennifer Gobb.

I live at 2333 Balm Road, so right adjacent to uh Dwelling Farms.

As an adjacent neighbor to dwelling developments event venue, I can speak firsthand on the incompatibility of this commercial business in our quiet rural residential neighborhood.

This commission just voted a couple months ago to approve this applicant's other event venue, which is less than a mile from this application before you tonight.

The Ansel Road event venue proposed 175 people an event, and the application before you tonight is proposing 125.

Our rural residential roads cannot withstand an additional 300 people and cars coming and going.

Now add the amplified music outside at both locations and alcohol and windy roads, and it is impacting the quality of life of the residents who reside out here, not the members of the applicant staff that are paid to speak on his behalf last time and here tonight.

Everything done on this property has been done without approval, a complete disregard for codes and compliance.

The applicant is a builder, that is his primary business.

He knows what permitting is required for construction.

Also, the primary use of this land is an event venue, a commercial use, which can be seen on their social media posts.

They brag about the number of events they hold.

Again, a detriment to his neighbors.

They cleared the land and it had a bunch of gravel for the parking.

Again, no approvals.

I simply ask for you to respect the choir rule setting established in Southern Chesapeake and to vote to deny this request as recommended by staff.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Cobb.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Ernest Smith.

Good evening, Commissioners.

My name's Ernest Smith, and I own the property adjacent to 2349 Baum Road.

At the previous May meet a planning meeting, the owner stated to the members that he used this building to store his farm equipment.

However, the members noted and commented on that all the pictures provided by him provided showed only storage for his chairs, tables for events, along with a fireplace and kitchen.

There was no farm equipment in these buildings.

It appears that no CO was issued for this structures, so how could this be rented out when it was only permitted for farm use and not commercial use?

The Chesapeake police have been called on renders of the site previously.

The city approved a agro tourism for dwellings development corporation for a property that's actually less than a quarter mile away on Ansel Road.

Do we really need two agro-tourism commercial sites within a quarter mile of each other owned by the same corporation?

Dwellings development stated that they have a max number of 125 people will be attending this.

Who was monitoring this people?

As previously noted by the planning department, there have been more than 30 events in an eight-month period.

And citations were issued for those.

While they were only authorized for 12, which shows a lack of concern for any codes.

Dwelling developments state that they will provide permanent restroom facilities for all these people.

How is a septic tank going to accommodate all these people?

Is this a rural residential area or is this commission turning this into a commercial venue area?

I would recommend the commission follow the recommendations of the planning board and vote no on this.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

Smith.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in opposition, Jennifer Knight.

Hi, good evening.

I'm Jennifer Knight and I live on Batlahack Road.

I don't believe that this application is compliant with either the old or the new companies, and hence the conditional use permit.

And so we have to look really carefully at what are the baseline qualifications to acquire a conditional use permit.

There are two operative words, subordinate and incidental.

So the event space has to be subordinate and incidental to agricultural use in our part of the city.

So I keep hearing that they own farm animals, but I'm not sure that owning farm animals make you a farmer.

When you dig down into the definition of what is a farm, whether it's USDA, Commonwealth of Virginia, it's the production of something.

So I guess my follow-up question would be what's being produced.

I saw the silviculture, and I would agree with the planning department.

That is such it is one of the most vague and nebulous definitions you have ever seen in your lives.

What is silviculture?

And it's highly dependent upon the landowner's needs.

So I feel like it's a shame that the last time, I think it was May or June we were here, that those baseline qualifications for conditional use permit were not applied to that first application because it squeaked through.

And so when our Chesapeake Public School buses can't pick up or drop off a little girl for school, but we're given the thumbs up to an event venue for the same road, hundreds of vehicles, you know, many of whom, you know, the drivers are probably in consuming alcohol.

Like, what does that say about us as a community and our values?

That um bothers me.

Um during the last meeting, there was a question regarding the bridge on Indian Creek Road, and Mr.

McNamara shared that it was indeed funded this year.

So I guess my follow-up question is how many prior budgetary years was it also funded, but it hasn't been repaired.

I think it's been funded three or four years consecutively.

So is that a public safety concern?

Um I also found an article from the Farmville Herald dated March of 2023.

And the article paints the applicants as PUD developers.

Um and it says that they've uh built more than 500 apartments similar to Longwood Village.

Um so I guess I'm just you know, I have some heartburn.

Are they gonna try to put PUDs out in rural southern Chesapeake too?

Thank you so much for hearing me tonight.

Thank you, Ms.

Knight.

Next speaker.

That concludes our speakers.

Thank you.

All right, Commissioners.

Uh discussion.

Commissioner.

I have a question for um Ms.

Neal.

So when we looked at the last application from the applicants compared to the current application, can you talk about the differences between the two?

If there were any significant differences?

Oh the reason why I ask is when I look at this application, I see something in there about tenting.

And I don't recall seeing that in the other applications.

I'm just curious if there are other things like that that are significant differences.

Excuse me, can you repeat the word you said you don't see tenting?

Tinting.

Um with this application, it is uh adjacent to residential uses.

The last application was pushed back out in a very rural area.

The concern with the last application was Ansel Road itself.

If it weren't for Ansel Road itself, that application would have been more likely to have staff you know support.

Um for this application being so close to the adjacent residential uses that are there 88 feet away is the closest one.

Um, and it being somewhat of a rural residential community with a lot of uh residential uses there along Bomb Road.

Uh that's the main gist of the differences between the two applications.

Okay, thank you.

And I I have one question for the applicant also.

Yes, sir.

So there was some discussion uh by I don't remember the young lady's name.

Um but agribusiness.

Can you talk about what agribusiness is is occurring on that farm?

Yes, so the city has already permitted the site for picnics, hay rides, uh farm production sales.

That's already uh development of permits have already issued a permit for that.

I think last February, last January time frame.

So that's been going on.

Also, there have been separate special event permits issued for quite some time here.

Initially, when my clients approached the city and asked for the permit, they were told no permit was required.

That's what they were informed of.

After their immediate neighbors called the police themselves, Mr.

Smith called the police.

He didn't have to say somebody called the police, he called the police.

When he did that over and over, finally they said you probably need to go down and ask the city for a conditional use permit.

That's how all of this came about.

Um they've had uh events at this location.

Typically the events are quite small.

The conditions are extensive that that are part of this, limiting the hours of operation, lighting, um, all the final site plan approvements, um, improvements to the entryways, all of that.

Um these are typically for smaller events at this site.

Um the weekdays, they have to close shop by 8 p.m.

They can't have an event on the weekday past 8 p.m.

at night.

Well, um the planner indicated the closest home was 80 and a half eighty-eight and a half feet away, that is a supporter.

That person is in support.

The other homes are over 300 feet away, 500 feet away.

I mean, this is a perfect location for agritourism.

And agritourism has been defined by Virginia Tech.

It came out in 2014.

State legislature supported.

State legislature said under state law, we don't want the cities to even regulate this.

That's why there is so much confusion by the owners who live out in these rural areas.

Because the state keeps saying if it's farm related, you don't have to get a permit.

If it's farm related, the cities can't regulate you.

So how do the cities regulate you?

Well, they say go ahead and apply for a permit.

So these folks have voluntarily come, submitted their application.

They don't want to take this to court and battle it out in court.

They say, okay, regulate us with fair regulations.

And they have done it.

Is there active farming in progress on that property?

You are talking about the 41-acre site.

That is what is called silviculture, the 36 acres.

Those can be logged, okay.

That is what silvicultural is.

It's logging.

But that is a smaller parcel.

There are farm activities.

There are pigs, cows, chickens, all of that going on at this location.

So, you know, how much is enough?

I can tell you there are some people out here, it ain't never going to be enough.

It doesn't matter what they do.

So God bless everybody, but you know, it it is farming.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Commissioner Williams?

Sir.

I got to go back to the question.

The parcel that we are speaking of here.

Yes.

Is there any type of production that is being done?

Yeah.

That's being potentially something is being raised or grown or anything like that that's being then in turn sold.

Yes.

Is that taking place?

And what would that be, sir?

Pigs, cows, eggs, hens, uh, goats, milk.

Just curious.

Where would I go to get those?

Well, you can pull up to the farm, you know.

Uh are you saying where can you go into the store at maybe it's uh farm fresh and buy their products right now?

Farmers market in Virginia Beach.

Somewhere like that.

I'm just curious, that's all.

I you know, frankly, I don't know.

Eventually, pigs, they have to be taken and slaughtered.

Okay.

Um and cows have to be taken and slaughtered.

Uh it's what happens.

Chickens lay eggs, the eggs have to go somewhere.

You know, this this idea of what agritourism is under the state law, it's very broad.

Uh it's extremely broad.

And so to define it saying, well, you know, if you only log your property once every 10 years because you are waiting for the trees to grow, are you not a civil cultural farm?

Of course you are.

Under state law.

Those treats can be logged right there.

That is recognized in the staff report.

So that's the point I want to raise.

I don't mean to be cynical about it.

I I grew up on a farm.

I know what happens to these pigs and cows.

These folks own 800 acres.

This is 40 acres that's set aside out of that 800 acres.

Um, are you doing enough on every single parcel you own as a farmer?

Well, that that's a that's a very complicated question.

Um, I ra I grew up with animals too, sir, and we didn't just I know the pigs business as well.

Okay.

Um, one other question for you.

The um the limited permit that the folks have for doing these events.

Does that specify how many events they can do within a calendar year?

No.

Um there was also uh some confusion on that point.

What they were told initially by the city was if it was under 50, they didn't need a special permit.

And if you look at the code of the city, it says if it is under 50, you don't have to accommodate bathrooms and all these things.

So there wasn't a permit requirement for that.

If it was over 50, then you had to get a special permit.

In fact, the special permit says 500 people.

But they submitted, I think, and were approved for 12 or 14 of those special permits.

And by the way, all this conditional use permit violation stuff came off of one Facebook posting by their folks.

Those were for all kinds of events on different sites.

So, you know, all this stuff that people want to do on social media, it's attack first, ask questions later.

Those are not people that come up and ask questions of this nice family who are putting a tremendous amount of money to do this in code with the city.

When you buy a farm and you are already putting money out, trying to pay taxes and do all this.

That's why the law is so strict about not over-regulating these places.

And when they submit for a conditional use permit, I think you have to genuinely consider it an opportunity to regulate them.

Thank you.

I have one more question.

Mr.

Titter, could you clarify or confirm some of the information we just heard?

Happy to.

Do you just want me to confirm or is there any species?

Okay.

So I took the opportunity here and I pulled up section 131504 of the zoning ordinance, which is the section on special outdoor events.

I'm hoping I've got our zoning folks in the back nodding.

So I got to the right section of the zoning ordinance.

And what's what's interesting is that in this section of the zoning ordinance, there is no distinction based off of the size of the event.

If you were going to do an event that meets the definition, which is listed as it gives some examples of some type events, and it says includes outdoor meetings, auctions, bake sales, yard sales from other than residential properties, carnivals, special outdoor entertainment, and similar activities which are not part of the property's normal use and which are not otherwise permitted on the site.

So that's the definition of special outdoor event.

And then the requirements in subpart B of that section list certain requirements that the event has to meet.

And that's where we get into the limit or the cap on the number of events.

So an event cannot last more than seven consecutive or non-consecutive days up to a maximum of four times per calendar year.

So that seven non-consecutive up to a maximum of four times is how we calculate how zoning calculates 28 one-day events throughout a calendar year.

There's the limit.

But this section of the zoning ordinance does not have any distinction based off of the number of people attending.

There's not a, if it's under 50, you don't need an event.

If it's under 500, you don't need a permit.

It just, if you meet the definition of a special outdoor event, you have to get the permit.

And once you have to get the permit, you're subject to the requirements that are listed in this zoning ordinance.

And that is section 13.

Section 4614.

Any private owner desiring to use the property or permit to use the property for an open-air tent or other outdoor meeting or event attended by 50 or more and not to be conducted in its entirety within the permanent building shall provide adequate sanitary facilities, et cetera.

This is what was quoted by the zoning administrator at the time that we were asked that my folks came more than a year and a half ago to the city saying, what do we need?

And that's what they were told.

So there has been confusion on this point.

And there's been a lot of work.

But I will point out Section 152, 2288.6 of the State Code says no locality shall regulate the carrying out of any of the following activities at an agricultural operation unless there is a substantial impact on the health safety or general welfare of the public.

So under State Code, it's not to be regulated.

So when you're told by the State that they're not to regulate you, the city, you go to the city that says, well, you don't need a permit.

There's some confusion that arises in that process.

Can you give me that code again, Mr.

Palmer?

Yes, sir.

It's 15.2-2288.6.

I've got it here.

Anyone wants to look at it.

Did the city tell them they didn't need a permit?

Mr.

Tate or somebody from my clients right here, and they can tell you who the same thing is.

Well, I'd like to hear from the city, Mr.

Plummer.

Sure.

I'll ask them as well.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Well, we uh Mr.

Palmer just said his clients were told they didn't need permits.

And I guess that started some confusion.

So I'm just were they told that?

Um we've been told that they were told that, but you know, we are pretty good at keeping records of giving out information, and we couldn't find any record of that.

Um, the only thing I would say is that it's not unusual that people start a business and whether they knew the rules or not, there's enforcement that commences and then they come and they try to get back on track with a use permit, and I think that's what they're doing here.

Um, it's up to planning commission and city council to think do their prior acts factor into this application.

You know, our approach is the rules or the rules, and when you put in the application, we evaluate the application based on where we are that day.

Um, I do think some rules were broken.

I couldn't tell you for sure whether they knew they were breaking the rules, but we try to get people back on track, and that's where we are tonight.

Okay, thank you, Mr.

Tate.

I know my fellow commissioners have questions too, so sorry to have jumped in here, but I guess I'll ask Mr.

and Mrs.

Diependorf if they want to address this question as well.

Just answer the question if they were told they didn't need permits.

So initially um we had one event.

We didn't know anything about, we had somebody came to us and said, Hey, let can we have our uh I think it was a company picnic at your farm.

And I was like, Oh, perfect, sure, you know, and we got it all ready.

Um we had the picnic and we were like, wow, this went really well.

And everybody, you know, who came was asking for our information, business cards, we didn't have them, you know, it's just me and him.

Um so I'm like, okay, there has to be rules on this.

I look up all this state codes on agritourism.

I'm like, I don't think we have to do anything.

It says we're protected.

Um, but I'm like, we have to have a business license or something.

So we go to the business license office, I guess it is.

Um, tell them what we're doing, and they say we don't need a business license because they can't tell us not to lease out our land.

Um basically we just lease it out to the person for that day.

Um, and we have staff there that monitor it, but we're like, uh, okay.

So we leave.

Um, and actually Michael went that day, and I was like, are you sure that's what they said?

Like, there has to be rules.

Um, I don't even know if we had any more events in between the time he came back, asked again, and still no, you don't have to have a business license for this.

So we kind of go on our merry way, we do like a couple small birthday parties for like our kids' friends, and like the Facebook post that people are referring to with the violation is 30 events.

Okay, that was my kids' birthday party.

That was, you know, uh it's not all these grand weddings or or extravagant events.

Um eventually me and Michael come back to the business office, and I'm like, we just want a business permit.

Like I just want something so the city knows what I'm doing.

I feel like I'm above board, um, and we tell them what we're doing, and they write us up something.

I don't even know what it says on the business license.

And they're like, okay, well, the new rule, I guess there's a new rule that you have to go to zoning to make sure it's in compliance and uh permitted use.

So we go up to zoning, and I believe we met with Joe that day, um, told him what we wanted to do, and he was like, Technically you need a conditional use.

And I'm like, well, it's agro tourism, you know, we have farm animals, we have eggs that I could sell.

I have we birthed a cow, we sold a cow, like, you know, I'm not saying it's some giant beef organization or um anything like that.

Like I'm well aware that we're not out there, you know, selling 10 cows a day.

Um, you know, we own other properties right nearby, Ansel Road that's leased out to a farmer.

We have 30 acres, 32 acres, I think it is that we put in conservation that's leased out to a farmer.

Um so I'm not a farmer, but I feel like I own farms, own land.

Um so anyways, we talked to Joe, and he's like, you know, we used to we worked with this guy that did I guess it was like drive-in movies, and he was like, he used this special events permit, and you can do this and 28 events a year, and he referenced that it was only over 50 people.

Under 50 people, we could do what we wanted.

There was because people have birthday parties at their houses, people have small weddings at their houses and don't get permits for them.

Um so we ran with that.

I mean, we were in the zoning office and told that.

Um, and that's what we did.

We would have grandma's knitting club come out and that's an event, you know.

Um we have a guy that does blacksmithing, teaches a class.

That's an event.

Um so we ran with that, and then we we've tried to get a conditional use permit, and we were told we're not a farm because a farm is you have to have 51% of your they couldn't tell us of what to be a farm.

So we're like, okay, is that the amount of space you have to be considered a farm?

Is that the activities?

And there was no explanation.

So we were told that our our permit couldn't go any further.

So we pulled it, and then next thing we know we're getting violations for our Facebook post about 30 events.

But I'm like, I was told I under 50 I could do these things.

Um and I'm a rule follower, like I really don't like being in trouble.

Um, you know, and I feel like like in my heart, this is a really good thing.

And I really believe in it.

I wish everybody could see that.

And I understand, like, and I understand you move out there to be quiet, but it is agriculture, and people really enjoy this, and this is a really great place.

And anybody who's been out there, I think can agree.

Um, and we are trying to follow the rules.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

One more question.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Mrs.

Devendorf.

Sorry.

What was the year of that initial event that you said you did for the company?

Uh is that 2040?

I don't know.

Maybe we would have in my January or something or something like that.

I think so.

I'm not exactly 23-ish.

Okay.

23-ish.

And it it wasn't like we had events every weekend.

Sure.

So with that, you live super close nearby.

Correct.

Yes.

You bought this property in 2017, is that right?

Correct.

Yeah.

What did you do with it between 17 and 23?

And what was your purpose for buying?

So I was riding around with my son in the car, he was asleep.

He was a toddler, and I was like, I'm a real estate agent, so I have you know my real estate app.

And I'm like, I'm just gonna ride around.

I'm a country girl, grew up, did not grow up around here.

Um I'm we lived in Pungo, but in a neighborhood, and I was like, I gotta get out of the neighborhood.

Like I just want to be out in the country.

So I'm riding around, I find this piece of land, I pull in, and I am like, this is it.

This is my this is where we're gonna build our house, we're gonna live here.

So we buy the property and trying to save up, get our stuff together to build.

Um, and we just work on like clearing it.

There was like an old house, an old falling down barn.

We cleaned it up, got it ready, like literally just brought our boys out there to ride around four-wheelers and stuff like that, um, with hopes of building a house.

And then we found the property on Ansel, which is like on the Northwest River or Smith Creek, and we're like, actually, that's where we want to build our house.

Um so plan shifted.

We still haven't built our house, but um so now we have these two properties.

I've always had a dream of having farm animals, so we kind of slowly getting got the farmhouse.

We got chickens first, then we got goats, and then we got the cows, then we got the pigs, and then it just kind of morphed into something that was for us that we were gonna like combine with our home little homestead, and that's just how it grew.

Um question for you or Ms.

Robinley, what are the odds of having events going on in both spaces at the same time?

So our intention is not to be doing that.

Um we're very like hands-on.

Um we have Milton who spoke, who we trust entirely, um, and he's our guy.

So he can only be at one spot um if we're not there.

So um our intention is one event at a time.

I'm not saying that if we have an event like a wedding on Ansel, that maybe the bride or groom wouldn't be maybe also rent out the barn to like get ready or something like that, but our intention is like crowd, the crowd would only be at one spot.

Um it wouldn't be at two things, or if you know, the blacksmith group wants to meet at Bomb Road while we have a wedding, he's got like five people that come.

We probably probably allow that um and have somebody there, but no big events would be happening at the same time.

Commissioner Swalia.

Thank you.

One more question for you.

Um I noticed that your plans said um 35, well, 30 parking spots and then five.

And and I think I remember seeing some things about like activities for young children and for age and things like that.

So I mean, I'm envisioning like moms bringing their kids during the day and like a mom and a kid or a mom and two kids, and so I'm just trying to make that math math.

Sure.

Um, you know, our events would be limited, you know, the amount of people, no matter how many parking spots we have.

Um, and we've you know, the parking spots are along a like gravel road, and then you would kind of pull off.

Um so parking is not an issue on that site.

We've never had traffic backed up on bomb road or anything like that.

Um so where would people park if they have more than 35 cars?

So we have lots of gravel space because we have trailers and things like that.

Um so if we needed to move trailers and farm equipment out of the way and put them on the property on Ansel, but would you know to do that in the moment when people are very like if we think we're gonna have too many cars, all the equipment is gone.

We clean it out.

I just wanted to also point out there's a alternative, there's a request for alternative parking on grass uh with this because they don't want to harden too much of the surface out there.

So that's also part of this for alternative parking.

Doesn't Mr.

McInhair, doesn't that cause some issue with the agro tourism piece of it?

Parking on the grass and so forth.

I don't believe there's a direct connection between uh the the parking on the grass and the agro tourism aspect of it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Bearfield?

Yes, I I just want to get some clarification because we're talking about the and the bomb road property.

Is that where the water is?

No, the water is over on the Ansel site, which is the larger field.

And that's why there is some confusion because there are two sites, and they they have several sites, but this is a 41-acre site approximately going down Bomb Road.

They're only using a very small part of this acreage, which if you see that very top uh because it looks like Oklahoma flipped on the other side, you know, the the the handle sticks up.

That's at the top of the handle, that's bomb road.

And so their activities are just right inside there.

So but the greater part of it you see is all those trees and walk paths in there and places to go, walking in there in those mature trees that are there uh on that side.

So those trees can be logged, no doubt about it.

Makes it silvicultural, makes it farming.

That's all you have to be.

They're trying to preserve.

That's what they want.

That's what this family wants.

Um I, you know.

Uh these folks have been through a lot uh with the city, and there's clearly you can hear from Ms.

Diefenbach been confusion with how to interact on this subject.

There is a gray area between state law and city code, and it is not well drafted and it's not well understood.

And so we're asking for a conditional use permit which regulates them, which takes care of the secondary effects uh for the neighbors.

The closest neighbor, as I told you, has written a letter in support of this.

So anyway, I ask you to prove it.

So I I guess I I got a couple of legal questions.

Um we've talked about two events and about having you know maximum number of people here and and on this one, well, we probably wouldn't want to have two events, but we could allow the you know, somebody doing blacksmith than to come in.

Because these are really two different properties and two different can it if this were to go through, can you put a stipulation on that property based on what's happening on it on the di on the other property would be my first question?

Yeah, I would advise against that just because we do need to look at applications separately and what we need to be concerned about with the stipulations is mitigating the impacts from this use, not from what might be going on on other properties that in this case would just happen to be under common ownership and be used for similar things so so if this was to be approved, we would we would maximum and they would have the potential to do two events there, even though they say, you know, I know you like to be hands-on.

That the advice would be to keep them separate and whatever would be approved would be approved.

Or would the maximum allowed would be allowed, correct?

Correct.

If if both applications were approved, then the applicants would be able to operate in compliance with whatever stipulations apply to that particular property.

Okay.

And then my my second question or my last question was Mr.

Promley brought up the 15.2-2288.6, um, which you know said that no locality is supposed to regulate.

However, we're sitting here today regulating.

So I'm sure there's got to be more added to this law, or there's something because so can you just clarify?

I know there's some murky areas and and we don't necessarily always, you know, the law there's a reason there's lawyers, right?

Uh and judges.

Uh but can you just talk a little bit from your perspective as far as that goes?

Yeah, you know, I think your point, Commissioner Hackworth, that there's more here is an excellent one.

You know, when you're dealing with the law, most of the time there's more than what might just be seen at the surface level.

And what is the more here in this case with agro tourism, is that localities do have the ability to regulate uses like this when there is a substantial impact on public health safety and welfare.

That is the fundamental concept in land use, and that is where the zoning power comes from from the locality's police power based off of protecting public health safety and welfare.

So in the cases of agritourism, you know, one, the property, the use would have to actually meet the definition of agritourism, which it's been kind of talked around here this evening.

That is a broad definition.

But more importantly, and more directly to your question, there is the section of the State Code that says that localities can regulate those uses, even agritourism uses when there is that substantial impact on public health safety and welfare.

Just like we did with the previous application on Ansel Road, that's why we're here, because there is the substantial impact as discussed and noted in the staff report that you have reviewed.

Thank you.

Other commissioners.

Commissioner Williams.

I got another one for you, sir.

And this is probably a quick one.

Alcohol.

Is there do events have alcohol there?

Yes, they do.

And how does that work?

Yes.

So there would be alcohol.

I believe they are required to get their own permit, ABC permit when they hold the event.

So all of and that's another stipulation here.

All these conditions have to be put in every contract that they have with the folks.

So I believe that's a requirement with any of their agreements that that if they're going to have alcohol, they have to obtain uh proper approval from the State Bureau of Alcohol.

Thank you.

Other commissioners.

Commissioner Bearfield?

Yes, I guess I just need to get it straight in my head.

What is farm, what is residential, what is agritourism?

Because I was trying to get a percentage of how much of the time this property is devoted to farming, which you've said nothing, it seems.

Agritourism and residential use.

Now I know they don't have a house on there.

Right.

But how do we even term this agritourism?

What is going on so much that it could be called that?

So this is agriculturally zoned property on it or trees.

Those trees may be logged.

That is farming.

Silvicultural is included in the definition of farming, and no one can deny that.

No one.

So as I said, ANSEL is a separate parcel, you know, a couple hundred acres approximately, something like that.

Um, which is when you think of a farmer, you think of a farmer out there with a tractor, ploughing fields, doing all that, doing something on a production level.

They have pigs, cows, goats, chickens.

You may not see it as enough.

Let me just tell you what I know about farming.

A lot of farmers go bankrupt without government subsidies, period.

And it is difficult to own land and protect it from the taxes and all the other things.

If you can't find some source of revenue, these folks have already put 30 acres in preservation.

They want to put more in preservation.

They see this as a personal mission to put it in preservation.

So getting into the definition of farming is broad.

Um Virginia Tech did a very good job of what agriculturism is defining it in 2013 in this study.

It includes all these activities that they are doing out on agricultural property.

All this property be can be cleared and can be farmed for soybeans.

It can be far.

It's not a question of what is actually occurring.

That is different.

What can occur?

It's agricultural land, and it can be farmed.

So I I think that's the point that gets lost, and maybe I'm not connecting with you on the question.

I got it.

What is or what could be.

And so and so that's that's what needs to be understood.

So these folks have 800 acres in various places.

That is farm fields.

So they have a large operation.

Um they're looking at this as a place for these small events to have, and you can hear all the confusion that comes into the code section.

Lawyers get paid to fight over it.

I remember um Dan and I talking about the fact that we're one of the few people that go to sit in a chair, work every day, knowing somebody else is getting in their chair just to fight us, and us to fight them.

Uh uh anyway.

So I hope that answers your question.

Mr.

Williams?

Mr.

Is the city's viewpoint of the same as Mr.

Plumley's.

I'm gonna have to say no.

And the reason that I'm gonna say no, I take issue with Mr.

Plumley characterizing and saying it's not what is about happening on the property, but it's about what could happen.

By that definition, every single property in Chesapeake that has a tree on it could cut down that tree for logging and put agro-tourism.

I mean that's a little bit reductio ad absurdum, but you see the existence of the hit your mic.

Gosh, they're trying to mute me.

All right.

I guess I talked about is my time up?

Anyway.

Um the definition of of the regulation of agritourism 152288.6 that we've been talking about refers you to definitions in 3.26400.

That definition says agro-tourism is any activity carried out on a farm or ranch that allows members of the general public for recreational entertainment or educational purposes to view or enjoy rural activities, and then it gives some examples.

I'm getting to the point here, I promise.

Farm or ranch means one or more areas of land used for the production, cultivation, growing, harvesting, or processing of agricultural products.

It says use.

Now, agricultural products, and this is where there is agreement with Mr.

Plumley and I, I will acknowledge that the State Code defines agricultural products as livestock, aquaculture, poultry, horticulture, floriculture, viviculture, civiculture, or other farm crops.

So yes, civicultural is in the definition of agricultural, livestock, poultry, those are in the definition of agricultural.

But when you look at the definition of farm or ranch, it means areas of land used for, not could be, not might be, not hope to be directly used for these purposes.

If somebody has a question for you.

Thank you, Mr.

Titter.

Mr.

Williams?

Yeah.

I I got one more for you.

So if you boarded, if you boarded horses or something along those lines, is that considered you be on a farm?

Meaning that you just you didn't you didn't do anything with them.

You just provided the space for other people to house their livestock on your facility.

Well, and I think you've gotten to the issues here and the gray area.

I would submit the gray area is not with city code, the gray areas and the state code that has these ambiguous definitions.

So, you know, I in terms of is that agriculture, if you're if you're boarding horses, is that a farm or ranch possibly without researching to see if there's been any case law or a attorney general's opinions on that.

I can't say which way a court would would fall on that.

When you're looking at agro-tourism, boarding horses would only qualify if it allows members of the general public for recreation.

You know, so if you did camps or classes or events or things, then that might qualify as as agro tourism.

Thank you.

Other commissioners.

All right, if no other questions or comments, a motion is in order.

Mr.

Chair, I move to deny.

Do we have a second?

I'm sorry.

Uh Commissioner Squalia moved to deny for the staff report.

I second to deny.

Okay.

We have a second by Commissioner Sprule.

So we have a properly made motion for properly made motion for the properly made motion by Commissioner Squelia for denial, and a second by Commissioner Spruel.

So again, a yes vote is for denial.

Uh Commissioners, please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

Mr.

Bostwick record the vote.

By a vote of six to three, the motion carries.

Okay, thank you very much.

Mr.

Bostwick, if you will please uh read the next um item.

We have a ten minutes.

Okay, we've been asked for a recess, uh ten minute recess.

We'll uh take that ten minute recess.

We'll be back at nine eighteen.

No, I'm not.

We didn't need a ten minute break.

No, don't worry, uh sure they're quite they can sit there and run on after I'm in my mouth, I'm out of here.

I gotta be up before I am to go to a real city that has real rents.

None of which the city has the comprehensive plans.

So what's the point is another city?

Some some of us some of us were not in the job or two jobs, but we're gonna senior manager at main jobs.

And my other job is reading now.

Like fifty percent because I actually work I show up you know it would be quite a high design.

So well, yes, but they don't ask like what not these are but yeah, I had it the problem was yeah, I had meeting at nine, and then meeting one, and then they drew another meeting at three.

So it was like, you know, I can't sit here, even though it's five minutes from the council floor.

I can't sit here in trying to go back because I got projects.

You know, and believe it or not, I can't find does not have access.

That's why we're gonna talk about it.

Well, yeah, because I was over here's the other thing is I said there I said I sent a message to the to Cameron to what handling that because I'm going back stuff.

I did not notice council meetings.

So I know what's going on.

So now it's not while I'm sitting there looking at what they will do.

I'm like I've got some good dates on this issue around.

But yeah, they were they were supposed to have those stand down things.

Yes, they would have been done before, and I went in check.

They're not one year, so I'm gonna sit here and go, okay.

Do you want to lose start passing the shit out doing what you're supposed to?

It's not the quote's office.

I know that.

It's the management.

Oh no, no.

They they were supposed to okay, like two days.

I get the else don't refer to that.

So they have to add the equipment.

They are too yeah.

Well, they need the second here.

I don't know.

They had actually the process that they should have added now.

Because they said that there's no way that they didn't sit there at 8 30 in the morning to put all that together due to John Swords, actually.

So look, we ain't need no ten minutes.

I know that something on us more.

Okay.

You gave us all the paper.

I'm sitting there looking like this one and uh the head.

I don't know.

It takes real small, because I got my own mouth and not one of those tasks.

That's okay when it's Josh is gone.

Two minute warning.

Two minute warning.

Uh I can't put it on the wrong time, but that's it.

All right, we're now back in session.

Thank you for allowing us to take that little break.

Mr.

Bostwick, if you'll present the next public hearing item.

Yes, our final item of the evening is item number seven.

PLN dash C O M P dash 2025-003.

The project is a resolution to amend the 2035 Chesapeake Comprehensive Plan as necessary to repeal the 2035 Chesapeake Comprehensive Plan and adopt Chesapeake 2045.

Mr.

Finn will now present staff's findings.

Staff offers the following findings.

Chesapeake 2045 will be a robust action-oriented plan to guide the city for the next 20 years and community engagements was conducted throughout the planning process in order to involve as many residents and stakeholders as possible.

Based on these findings, staff recommends that PON COMP-2025-003, Chesapeake 2045 version dated October 1st, 2025, including the Master Transportation Plan 2050 as shown in the staff report updated data October 6, 2025, be approved.

Thank you, Mr.

Finn.

Mr.

Hackworth, please uh call the speakers.

First speaker speaking in support, James Young.

It's not on.

The light will come off.

There we go.

Okay.

Hi.

Good evening, uh Chairman and members of the Planning Commission.

My name is Irvin Young.

I'm the new chairman of the Historic Preservation Commission.

And we're here with a letter of support that we presented to City Council last month.

The City of Chesapeake Historic Preservation Commission was established to act in an advisory capacity to the City Council and Planning Commission to implement the historic preservation plan.

Among HPC's responsibilities is to provide recommendations to city staff and city council on preservation of historic and cultural resources within the city.

To that end, the city staff requests that HPC provide comments on draft comprehensive plan Chesapeake 2045.

Over the last several months, the HPC conducted a detailed review of the sections of the draft of comprehensive plan pertinent to our roles and responsibilities as HPC Commissioners.

As part of this review, we held thoughtful discussion, planning staff regarding the draft at our July 10th, August 14th, and September 11th, 2025 meetings.

We are writing at this time to express our support for the historic preservation section of the draft comprehensive plan and highlight some of the feedback provided by our commissioners throughout the our review process.

HBC greatly appreciates the opportunity provided by the planning staff to offer our feedback on the draft comprehensive plan.

We are grateful for their thoughtful consideration of our comments and engagement with our Commission throughout the process of revising the document, which given its size and scope has been no small task.

Again, we express our support for the historic preservation section of the draft comprehensive plan and recommend city councils, and this was presented to City Council for City Council's approval.

Thank you, Mr.

Young.

Will you state your address as well?

Oh.

That's right.

James Young, James Irving Young, 608 McRolland Way.

Great.

Thank you, Mr.

Young.

Next speaker.

Next speaker speaking in support, Tom Kennedy.

Good evening, Chair, Commissioner, City staff.

The comprehensive plan update is very good, and there's no doubt that it will and should be approved.

But please, please do more to support shared solar power and community scale solar projects.

That can work along.

Also, please do more to encourage and support conservation landscaping practices, such as planting native plants, preserving trees, and protecting wildlife.

People have this idea that trees are going to blow down on their house or that limbs are gonna fall.

Well, in doing that, the trees are protecting houses.

And it's just a real shame to see developments old and new where people want to cut down.

So things like city arborists and being active with educating people, please.

Mr.

Kennedy, will you state your address?

Please.

That's okay.

Written right there.

216 Sparrow Road.

Thank you, Mr.

Kennedy.

Thank you.

Next speaker.

Next speaker, speaking in opposition, Vic Nichols.

Let me see.

There are parts of this I like, I will say that.

There are parts of it I like.

But the big problem that Green Bar has the decision of we don't want to build in Hickory or anything, so we've got to build somewhere else.

So we're going to dump that on Grassfield and Green Bar.

Grassfield does not have a TIFF associated with it.

That's one problem.

Green Bar does.

But about 10 million dollars every year for the past at least decade has been taken from Green Bar.

Big problem is if you want to develop in Green Bar, you got to have infrastructure.

It's not there.

When I broached even just water meters, the cost of those, things like that, oh, we can't do that.

But we're going to approve a plan that dumps more people, more residents in Greenbrier.

Why?

Okay.

I'm also very concerned that when I start talking about how the repercussions of what happens for suggestions, I'm basically silenced.

City didn't want me to speak.

That is a huge problem.

One of the big ones that I can see just right off is that people have an issue with the Carter on Volvo is two lanes.

Instead of making it three, we allow Dollar Tree to build right on the end there.

You can't enlarge that.

You're trying to put more and more people on there, and it doesn't work.

When you try to use Eden Way North, that is a one-lane road, only meant for our PUD from the beginning to the other end.

That is all Greenbrier PUD.

Those on that section, because we have two other sections in different areas, not on Eden Way.

That's over 1,500 homes.

The problem now is using that as a cut through now, and we're not even extended out to battlefield.

Traffic is already backing up to the lake, because we have a lot of people that use that as a cut through.

Rather than over a period of a couple of years, even telling council of how we can maneuver this to get people off that road and those backups that can take 10 minutes, you don't fix it.

So my part is no because of what you're doing with Green Bar.

Thank you, Ms.

Nichols.

Next speaker.

Next speaker, speaking in opposition, Rogard Ross.

Good evening.

I've been coordinating efforts of the local good environmental community through the Chesapeake Sustainability Network, a new group.

We submitted detailed comments on the draft comp plan to the planning department in September 25th.

Our letter was signed by 40 individuals and seven organizations, including the Friends of Indian River, the Cape Henry Audubon Society, the Wetlands Watts, Chesapeake Conservation Landscaping Council, Coastal Virginia Conservancy, Southern Brands and Nursley, and Tidewater Compost.

Overall, we applaud the draft of the Comm Plan for providing a strong vision for creating a high quality future for the city that protects green and open space, works to connect people, and respects the unique character of different parts of the city.

We did identify key areas of document that could be improved upon.

Some of these recommendations were adequately addressed in the October 1st draft that came out last week.

We do have a few key areas that need to be addressed for sustainability and environmental resilience in our city.

In the past few days, been going back and forth with the planning department to talk about these edits.

A key area is educating and connecting residents and businesses and institutions about conservation landscaping, such as the use of native plants, creating pollinated gardens, rain gardens, and reducing lows and Doug Ptolemy's book, Bringing Nature Home.

It's a groundbreaking book, talks about what each of us need to do to protect nature.

It's not just out in the Great Dismal Swamp or in Southern Chesapeake, but in all of the city, we need to protect nature.

And we have a lot of groups in the city working toward doing this, and we need continued support from the city.

Some other missed policies include connecting farmers with cross-share programs that help them implement best practices that improve city environment and help farmers preserve their land.

There's wording related to the modeling of renewable energy to rooftop solar.

There's the value, including to taxpayers of reducing the amount of residential yard waste going to landfill, encouraging community solar, evaluating sea level rise at the Northwest River Treatment Plant.

It's going to be at risk.

And some policies from the last 2035 plan include educate residents and officials about the importance of protecting wetlands, identifying city-owned land for tree preservation, and encouraging farmers' markets and community gardens.

These are some small changes to be made to the plan.

They'll make some big differences.

So what we're asking is, as you approve this, please ask the planning department to take the two or three months we have before it goes to city council to incorporate these comments and tweak the document, make it better.

I thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Ross.

Next speaker.

Next speaker, speaking in opposition, Jennifer Knight.

Do we have three minutes or five minutes?

Three.

Okay.

So I I don't um oppose the entire comp plan.

I don't even oppose the rural rural growth management part.

I just have some questions.

Um is the rural overlay district enough to protect us from high-density urban and suburban development?

Um will the rural overlay district protect us from the calamities that we have endured during this current comp plan, the coastal Virginia Commerce Park, the Dominion Corridor study, T Cods, conditional use permits that don't fit the minimum basic requirements of subordinate and incidental uses.

No citizens were in favor of any of the A4 mentioned calamities that I mentioned.

Um there were groups, um some might call them lobbyists that were in favor, but citizens were not in favor of it.

So if we're truly serious about protecting rural Chesapeake, do we need a green line, a blue line, a standalone agricultural or forestal plan?

The Commonwealth of Virginia has given the power to us to have a designated agricultural district.

We the people can talk about exactly where the intact prime farmland, livestock, equine, forestry, horticulture, and fishery areas are today, and designate them as agricultural districts, just the same as urban.

Why aren't we?

Let's get really serious about protecting all that truly makes rural Chesapeake the crown jewel or hidden gem to our city.

Well, why do I say that?

Like what do we have in rural Chesapeake that deserves to be protected?

The Great Dismal Swamp, currently undergoing an assessment by the National Park Service to become a national heritage area.

The Northwest River and its watershed provides the it's the primary source of drinking water for our city, historic waterways dating back to the Revolutionary War, churches predating the Revolutionary War, churches that were burned to the ground during the Civil War that the Union used to stable their horses, antebellum homes, we have graves with both Union and Confederate soldiers all resting peacefully.

We have soybeans and corn, um, the largest private industry in the commonwealth, 82 billion dollars.

They're globally sourced from Chesapeake.

We have local residents from all over Tidewater, north of Portsmouth, Newport News, visiting Hickory Ridge, Historic Greenborough Farms, and Burghees had a thousand people go through their corn maze.

Why do folks come from all over Tidewater to Chesapeake?

Because those spaces have been obliterated in their cities.

That's why.

That's why they come here.

In rural Chesapeake, our locally owned businesses are like our neighbors to us, whether they are septic companies or butchers or local garages.

But most importantly, the people in rural Chesapeake.

We are tough, we are resilient, we are hardworking, and we want to protect that land for generations to come.

And I ask is the rural overlay district enough to do that?

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Knight.

Next speaker.

That concludes our speakers.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Commissioners, any discussion.

Commissioner Cruz.

Just a comment.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Yes, I had a question for Mr.

Ross.

So in your statement, uh you indicated that the current plan talked about the promotion of green spaces, such as community gardens and things like that.

Did I hear you correctly?

Did you say that the current plan has been a good question?

The 2025 plan, it does have a policy statement in there to promote farmers' markets and community gardens.

And I would like, we would like to see that policy carried forward into the uh current plan.

And the other two we mentioned.

Thank you.

Mr.

Bearfield.

Yes, I was just going to comment to Mr.

Ross.

I did read your comments and I think I agree with you that there are some areas that should be expounded upon.

I like the idea of the trees staying in the neighborhood where they are cut down.

I mean where they instead of taking them somewhere else.

So I just wanted you to know that I I agree with some of the suggestions.

I just have a I have a you know I know that this has been a considerable process and undertaken.

Uh and I don't know that we'll ever get it 100 percent to what everybody thinks it should be.

Uh so it has been a tremendous effort, and I applaud everybody who's put in the input and and uh considered this.

So my question would be is once it goes through this planning commission, um, how long does it take before it gets to actual city council?

And then are we still modifying the is there any modifications that can go on to the plan between now and then, or is it presented as is and final?

Yes, sir.

So we intend uh to have a a period here where we will continue to make changes to the comp plan based off of conversations and input that we continue to receive.

Uh you know, the we anticipate that many of those changes will be minor in nature uh based off of the input that you are seeing uh and the direction that you do give.

Uh typically with comprehensive plan amendments, we take a month in between where we give we have a city council work session and talk about the progress made to date, so what happened during the Plan Commission public hearing, what changes are being proposed, uh just to brief counsel on where we're at.

Due to this being late in the year and uh briefing them in November, we did not want to take action in December uh due to the holiday.

So we anticipate that this will be before before City Council in January.

So that gives us a couple of months to make any of the necessary changes to do that.

So um yeah, hopefully that answers your question that you know we if there's guidance given to you know modify, we can certainly look into making those modifications.

Yeah, I think I just you know, uh like I said, we you know, we had a couple people that spoke in and uh even Ms.

Knight talking about you know listing out quite a few of what makes Chesapeake unique, whether it's the Northwest River or whether it's the Dismal Swamp.

I mean, that that's uh you know, that's that's a pretty neat thing to have within your city and and just making sure that they are protected.

Uh so I just want to make sure that we, you know, we take those comments and we can continue to develop and make sure we capture what we need to plan.

So thank you.

Mr.

McMurrett, kind of a follow-up to that question.

Is it City Council who would determine that the document is substantially different enough that it would have to come back to Planning Commission?

Absolutely.

Yes.

So if there was a an opportunity where something had substantially changed, they could certainly remand it back to Planning Commission for consideration.

Commissioner Cruz?

Yes.

Uh so uh Ms.

McMirror.

Uh regarding the uh comment from Mr.

Ross, uh what's currently in the plan regarding green spaces, farmers market.

I think there's an area in the plan about economic resilience.

Is the opportunity of us to review what is currently in a plan and there is an opportunity to maybe incorporate those recommendations in Portland Ford and the correct areas for this existing draft plan.

Mr.

Cruz, may I take a moment?

So Kevin Finn, I believe has a you know we we've had some discussions with with Mr.

Ross and his group.

I would like to ask Mr.

Finn if you could talk about some of the conversations that we've had and some of the changes that we have made in the plan as a result.

Thanks, Jimmy.

Yeah.

So as we discussed in the pre-meeting as well, several policies were added as a result of the comments submitted by Mr.

Ross in the Chesapeake Sustainability Network.

That includes expansions to when I give abbreviations, those are for the policies within the related uh focus area section.

So EVN would be an environmental resilience.

Uh just for just for a note.

So we expanded EVN policy number 40 to include all residences and businesses.

Um that specifically references some of that conference uh conservation related design that Mr.

Ross um and other speakers mentioned.

Uh we also added policy DES 42 on page 217 uh that states encourage the use of native planting native plantings in conservation landscaping and public and private projects.

Again, you know, pulling that language directly from Mr.

Ross's letter in the Sustainability Network's letter, um, incorporating that directly into the comprehensive plan.

Um this is certainly something that we have discussed a good amount during our updates, especially during the work session that we had with planning commission.

You know, likely one of the most vocal groups and a comment that we heard um quite consistently from all areas of the city and all sorts of stakeholders was the you know a an active effort um to continue to preserve open space and particularly to preserve trees uh within the city of Chesapeake.

So I would say that the 2045 Comprehensive Plan as currently proposed expands upon what the 2035 plan um includes um quite substantially in that regard.

Um we do have, and it was actually brought up earlier tonight, um that City Council is part of their uh most recent uh capital improvement program uh did approve um or did allocate funding for an urban forestry plan.

Um so certainly while you know staff made note of the Chesapeake Sustainability Network's comments related to preservation and such.

Um staff felt that some of the policies could be provided in greater detail as part of a future um urban forestry plan as it were to be developed with consultation from the planning department and very likely uh parks, recreation and tourism that's leading that effort.

Um I can, if you would like go on to discuss other policies as well, but I can stop there if anyone has any questions.

Uh Mr.

Flynn Flynn, you did a good job.

Thank you for uh answering my question and give me clarification there that we are addressing those concerns and uh seeing opportunities to incorporate those in the uh draft plan.

Anyone else, other commissioners?

All right, if no other discussion or comments or questions, a motion is in order.

Mr.

Chair, I make a motion.

Uh PLN dash C O MP-2025-003 be approved as recommended by staff.

I second.

I'll give you that one, Cruz.

Thank you.

So we uh have a properly made motion by Commissioner Hackworth and a second by Commissioner Cruz.

Uh Commissioners, please prepare to vote, please vote.

Mr.

Bosterwork, record the vote.

By a vote of nine to zero, the motion carries.

All right, very good.

Mr.

McNamara, do you have any items to bring up at this time?

So I think it would be remiss to you know forget this moment to thank the commission for all your help uh during this this planning, this uh this comprehensive plan update.

Uh I know that you know many of you have attended many meetings with us uh throughout the community.

Many of you have given your input throughout this process, and we really appreciate that.

We know that uh you know this can be a difficult job on occasion, you know, particularly when we're trying to weigh uh many competing interests in many cases, and we appreciate your input along the process and uh uh you know hope that uh you know when we send this off to uh to to City Council that they see the the hard work that you guys have put in on this as well uh throughout the process.

So thank you very much.

No, I thank you to Mr.

McAmary Union staff held a pretty robust and successful public process, a lot of meetings, a lot of input.

You gave us the opportunity, the work session to review it and provide comments.

Really appreciate that.

And you know, the one person that's not here too, Lucy Stoll was really excellent uh in keeping us updated and and kind of molding the process.

Kind of would be nice to have her here, but you know, good.

Lucy, thank you as well.

Uh and Kevin, great job.

You the whole staff did a great job.

Okay.

Um the cancellation of the October 22nd, 2025 meeting is now being considered due to there being no business.

Any commissioners have objection to canceling the meeting.

Hearing no objections, the October 22nd, 2025 meeting is canceled by unanimous consent.

Any other business to be brought up for the good of the commission.

Everybody remember November 13th.

Next public hearing, Thursday, November 13th, will be our uh November meeting.

All right.

If there's no further business to consider, the meeting stands adjourned at nine.

Yell, Commissioner Spool, that's right.

Yes, just one little thing.

Had an opportunity to uh look at the public safety operational center off of South Mills Highway.

Uh, Dr.

Sharon Chamberlain and Miss Kimley Combs did an excellent job of showing we are prepared for any safety uh illness that may come to the city of Chesapeake.

It was just a totally awesome thing, and also see the uh out of control.

I was fascinated by it.

Unfortunately, it's closed on Wednesday, but possibly tomorrow I get an opportunity to see for myself.

The ladies did a fantastic job, and at some time we need to thank uh uh these individuals who run up particularly center.

We are definitely in need of um dispatchers that I went through that that building.

We have maybe like five dispatchers, including supervisors, and they're putting in a 12-hour shift.

So we we might be um if we know someone that possibly know someone, let's reach out to them, telling them uh uh the opportunity is there to have Chesapeake Road and specimen come to uh our safety for all the citizens.

Thank you.

Great, excellent.

Thank you, Mr.

Sproul.

Nice to end on a positive note.

All right, with no further business to discuss, we're adjourned at 9 45.

You're watching Chesapeake Television, and I'm not sure.

Earlier in the spring, Penny and I visited one of her top favorite parks, Oakbrook, Lake Park, and what a view.

There's no swimming allowed, but it has a great multi-use trail.

One lap around the lake is a mile and a half.

Observation and fishing platforms make it easier for visitors to take in the view and even see some turtles and other wildlife.

The walking and biking path does make it easier for us to avoid or welcome any oncoming trail traffic.

And there's even workout stations along the way.

This park has a fantastic state-of-the-art playground for kids and plenty of picnic shelters and tables.

One of my favorite places to walk my dog, a very nice loop around the lake, and the paths are nice and wide there, and there's a nice mix of shade and sun, so it's a lot of enrichment, a lot of good smells for your dog, and uh enjoyable for the human as well in a beautiful area of Chesapeake.

You know, being part of the Humane Society, I would say that the best place to take your dog is home after you've died.