Good evening.

I'd like to call the November twenty-fourth meeting of the governing body to order.

First item, please.

Administer Administration of Oath of Office to Lawrence J.

Wolf, City Council Ward One by Mayor Patrick Collins.

I Lawrence J.

Wolf.

I Lawrence J.

Wolfe to solemnly swear or affirm.

Do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support, obey, and defend, that I will support, obey, and defend.

The Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution of the United States.

And the Constitution of the State of Wyoming.

And the Constitution of the State of Wyoming.

That have not knowingly violated any law related to my election or appointment.

That I've not knowingly violated any law related to my election or appointment, or cause it to be done by others, or caused it to be done by others.

And that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity.

And that I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity.

Congratulations and welcome.

Thank you.

Dr.

Aldrich, present.

Mayor Collins.

Here.

Dr.

Emmons, present.

Mr.

Escobel.

Here.

Mr.

Leborn.

Present.

Mr.

Moody.

Present.

Dr.

Rinney.

Present.

Mr.

Seagrave.

Present.

Mr.

White.

Present.

Mr.

Wolf.

All members are present.

We do have a quorum.

Would you all join me in the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation under God.

Indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Consent agenda.

All agenda items listed with the designation of CA are considered to be routine items by the governing body and will be enacted by one motion.

There will be no separate discussion on these items unless a member of the governing body so requests and support by two other members is received.

Any item removed from the consent agenda will be considered in its normal sequence on the agenda.

All right, are there any items a member of this governing body would like to remove from the consent agenda?

Dr.

Rennie.

Item sixteen, please.

Concur.

Concur.

All right.

Mr.

Seagrave?

That was it.

Anyone else?

Mr.

Labourne.

Number 15.

Concur.

Number 15 has been removed.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes, sir.

Number 21.

There's a bunch of 21, sir.

Concur.

21A.

Okay.

Concur.

All right, 21A is also removed from the consent agenda.

Anyone else?

Hearing none, I would entertain a motion.

Second.

Moved by Mr.

Seagrave.

Seconded by Mr.

White.

All those in favor of the consent agenda, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

No.

The consent agenda is approved with items 16, 15, and 21A removed.

They'll be considered in their normal sequence on the agenda.

Next item, please.

Number seven, ordinance, second reading, annexing to the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Various tracts of land completely surrounded by current city limits situate in eastern Cheyenne, generally located south of Laramie Street, east of T Bird Drive, north of East Lincoln Way and U.S.

30 and west of Parsons Place.

All right.

This is a continuation of our city council goal to annex city pockets surrendered 100% by the county.

I believe we have 20 properties this time.

We'll go out to the audience and see if anybody in the audience would like to speak to this effort to annex these 20 properties.

All right, hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Second.

And seconded by Mr.

White.

Comments for members of the governing body.

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye aye.

Those opposed.

The ordinance is approved on second reading.

Number eight, ordinance, second reading, amending the official zoning map of the city of Cheyenne, establishing the zoning classifications of MR, medium density residential, MUB, mixed use business, and CB community business for land annexed to the city of Cheyenne, generally located south of Laramie Street, east of T Bird Drive, north of East Lincoln Way in US 30, and west of Parsons Place.

All right.

When you annex a piece of property, the law says we have to give it a city zone.

And our effort is to try to find the city zone closest to what it was in the county or the purpose that it was used for in the county.

Um is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak to this effort to establish a zone?

Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Dr.

Emmons.

Comments for members of the governing body.

Dr.

Alders, do you have your light on?

I do because I'm getting ready to okay.

Mr.

White, okay.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

This ordinance is also approved on second reading.

Number nine, ordinance, second reading, annexing to the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming, land located south of Story Boulevard, west of Converse Avenue, and north of East Carlson Street.

All right, this is an owner.

Uh requested annexation of 20.41 acres for future residential development.

Is there anybody in the audience here to speak to this annexation before us?

Hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Is that Mr.

Wolf?

Yes.

It's going to be taking a little use and use to that voice.

Thank you, sir.

Um comments from members of the governing body.

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

This annexation is approved on second reading.

Number 10, ordinance, second reading, amending the official zoning map of the city of Cheyenne, establishing the zoning classification of AG Agricultural for land annexed to the city of Cheyenne, located south of Story Boulevard, west of Converse Avenue, and north of East Carlson Street.

All right.

Again, uh, we as we annex property, we have to give it a city zone.

Uh the closest to what's there now is AG.

And so we're going to establish that as the uh underlying zone for this area.

Anyone in the audience want to speak to the establishment of this zone.

Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Seconded by Mr.

White.

Comments on the zone by the governing body.

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

This zone, the established zone is approved on second reading.

Number 11, ordinance, second reading, amending the official zoning map of the city of Cheyenne, changing the zoning classification for land located south of Story Boulevard, west of Converse Avenue, and north of East Carlson Street from AG Agricultural N C B community business to NR3, neighborhood residential high density.

When the established zone doesn't match with the intended use is the owner can request a zone change, and that's what's happened here.

They're requesting the NR3 zone, which would allow for a multifamily development.

Anybody in the audience want to speak to this proposed zone change?

All right, hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Dr.

Emmons.

Comments from members of the governing body.

Hearing none.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

The zone changes approved on second reading.

Number 12, ordinance, second reading, amending specified sections within chapter 8.68, camping on public property of the municipal code of the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming, to increase the associated penalties and require removal from premises if in violation of the code.

All right.

This is an ordinance that would raise fines for camping on public property from $50 to $750.

Is there anybody in the audience would like to speak to that?

Hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the item died at the public services committee due to a lack of a motion to approve.

However, for the sake of discussion, I move to approve on second reading.

Is there a second?

This item dies for the lack of a second.

Number 13 ordinance, second reading, amending section 5.76.050 residential door to door solicitor restrictions, prohibited practices of the municipal code of the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming, to expand the types of soliciting prohibited at a residence with a no solicitor's notice to amend the permissible hours for soliciting and to clarify existing code.

All right.

We have some changes to our door-to-door solicitors' rules.

Is there anybody here today to speak to that?

Mr.

Lloyd, are you here to do that?

Mr.

Mayor, members of the city council, I am a private citizen named Seth Floyd.

I live in Ward One.

Um, you will some of you may know me from my day job, but today I'm speaking on behalf of myself.

Um I am a little bit concerned about the way this ordinance is coming to pass.

I'd prefer to keep um soliciting for commercial purposes separate from the non-commercial purposes.

If we could divide that in code, I'd much rather have that be the way the ordinance goes.

Um I also as a homeowner myself, I have a no soliciting sign on my house.

I might be crazy, I might be the only person in the community, but my no soliciting sign distinctly means no sales.

I am more than welcome.

I'm more than fine and would welcome discussions with any politician or religious person who wants to come to my door.

In fact, I'm a little upset that I missed one of our state representatives when they came to my door and left a pamphlet.

So I would prefer that the no solicit, um, you can get a no soliciting sign that says no religion, no politics, no um fundraisers.

Um, I'd prefer that this section of code say something along the lines of um for the religious and politics section, say if the sign specifically says no religion or no politics, just because um you can clarify that.

Um and finally on this item, I'd like to uh be very cautious about making sure that all non-commercial speeches treated the same.

Um, in my day job, I do work with speech on regular basis, and it's my understanding that you can't treat religious speech any differently than you treat, say political speech or any other non-commercial speech.

So we need to make sure I'd want to make sure that any changes to this um are the same.

Um, I wasn't able to attend the committee meeting, and I apologize for that.

I just wanted to be there.

Um, but there was an amendment about pamphlets within election um people, but I want to make sure that if a politician can put a pamphlet on your door, then a religious person can put a pamphlet on your door, or a follower of Emmanuel Kant can put a pamphlet on your door.

Um, we need to make sure that's all consistent.

So those are um my opinions on that matter, and I thank you for your time.

Mr.

Lugberon, second reading, so you'll get a chance to see the next committee meeting.

So thanks for being here.

Anyone else?

Representative, welcome.

Thanks, Mr.

Mayor, members of council, and my new city councilman.

Uh I just wanted to bring, you know, I totally understand uh the idea that we had a hail storm and a bunch of people were knocking on doors and begging to replace roofs, siding, all these different things.

There's a lot of door-to-door sales going on at the time.

But the one thing that that uh bothers me about this uh rewriting of this ordinance is part five, which is the door-to-door canvassing.

Uh all of you up here political candidates, myself included, and so many others.

And as we know, when we go up and knock on a door, we're not selling them anything.

We're not asking for money for goods.

We're not trying to give them a service and ask for money for a service.

We are most of the time listening, is what we're doing.

We're listening to their concerns, their gripes.

What's going on in our neighborhood or what they don't like going up the state level or even city level?

Um, so I think when we look at this ordinance, I think that number five, I'd like to just see it amended and gone.

And there's a there's uh also a few other things that I didn't get this to you guys fast enough, and I wish I would have.

But this has also been fought in the Supreme Court many times ordinances just like this.

The Supreme Court has ruled.

It is a fundamental First Amendment right when it comes to religion and free speech for uh political organizations and canvassing for candidates.

So when we when we think about that, is if if we go forward with this and we just leave five as the way it's written, or if it's not gone, you know, it could be easily challenged in court.

But anyways, uh mayor and city council members, I appreciate your time and I'll stand for any questions.

Mr.

File, you know that uh number five doesn't affect the uh city council people.

We do everything perfectly, but uh I do appreciate at the state level there might be some challenges.

So appreciate your being here, sir.

Thank you so much.

Anyone else in the audience?

All right, hearing none.

Um Mr.

Labourne.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to approve on second reading.

Um there were also uh Mr.

Mayor, I'm gonna get a second on that first part if you would mind.

Second, Dr.

Aldridge.

All right, Mr.

Labourne.

Mr.

Mayor, I move to amend on section E on page two to replace 7 a.m.

with 8 a.m.

Second.

Did you have a second part to that amendment, sir?

Yes.

Okay.

Do you want me to handle it that way?

Mr.

Mayor, I move to amend section B, item five to strike and quote and pamphleteering.

So point of order, we had one motion, one amendment and one second.

So I don't believe we can do a second amendment in fully.

I thought it was one amendment that was going to be made altogether.

So we could take a okay, we'll divide and take the first one first.

Um all right, so we'll go out to the audience.

The first one is it's going to change the time used to be uh 7 a.m.

to to uh sunset, and they wanted to change that to 8 a.m.

to sunset.

Is there anybody in the audience would like to speak to the change in time for soliciting?

How about from the governing body?

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All those opposed.

All right.

That one passes, Mr.

Layborn.

Sorry to interrupt you.

Would you start with the second one, please?

Mr.

Mayor, I move to amend section B strike item number five.

And uh in quotes uh and pamphleteering.

Is there a second?

That was seconded by Mr.

Seagrave.

So that amendment basically uh, if there's no soliciting, it would have said that a candidate couldn't leave literature.

Uh we've struck in we've struck that part.

You can't knock on the door, but you can leave literature.

Anyone want to speak to that?

I will.

All right, hearing none, how about from the governing body?

I think both have comments.

Yeah, but I haven't gotten the government body yet.

Please.

All right.

Anybody else in the audience want to speak to this?

Okay, hearing none of the governing body, Dr.

Emmons.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

So uh with the pamphleteering, that's a hard word.

Do we need to also say that it's um they can leave um they can leave documents, but what about the solicitation for money?

I mean, it it couldn't say and give us a contribution, please.

Correct.

Dr.

Rennie, that was your your motion.

Do you want to answer that?

I don't know if I have a great answer.

I to me the argument had been to strike in committee, had been to um strike paragraph B five altogether.

Um to me, I seem that you know you may not want to spend time talking to a candidate, but it's if they actually leave can't some campaign literature, then you're not disturbing them or bothering them when there's a no soliciting sign there.

So um obviously I think that would allow whatever literature a candidate would leave.

So if you're asking for a can't campaign donation, I think that would be allowable from uh the intent of my amendment.

Dr.

Emmons, follow up.

Um thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Can we ask for um our legal counsel to weigh in on that?

Mr.

Brody, did you understand the question?

I think what I heard was does pamphleteering also include a request for money.

I guess uh Mr.

Mayor John Brody, city attorney, I I think it could.

Um certainly.

Um it also raises um another kind of I don't know if concerns the right word or but issue, perhaps, um, with regard to uh the city's code provisions when it comes to the distribution of hand bills.

Um, so under other parts of the city code, um distributing hand bills is prohibited, uh, especially if there's a no solicitation sign um on your on your residence.

Um so there's probably some other issues if uh the council wants to look at this issue more that might be worth um navigating uh in front of the committee.

Dr.

Edmonds, that's section 8.52.060.

Uh, if this passes, we'd have to go back and amend that at a future date.

Dr.

Umor Collins, for you, I'm wondering about with the pamphleteering, and I'm sorry I didn't hear the a conversation at committee um due to another obligation, but the I'm just really concerned uh for one, we know, and I think all of us that go door to door for election purposes know that um when you're leaving a pamphlet or a brochure or a postcard that um it is illegal to put it in a US post mailbox.

So I it never fails that as I'm going door to door during uh campaign season that I see numerous um brochures and pamphlets that have blown off doors or are laying in the grass or and I'm just wondering about the wisdom of allowing pamphleteering um if you're not actually able to hand it to someone unless you have a means of attaching it uh through some I some candidates I think use clear plastic bags to hand it on hanging on doorknobs, which work great unless you have an accessible doorknob.

I just I think that the pamphleteering um eliminating that from being um uh from being disallowed uh leads to a lot of other challenges.

So for that reason, I'll be a no vote on this tonight on the amendment.

Anyone else in the governing body?

All right, hearing none, the motion is to remove the pamphleteering uh section on B5.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

No.

Can I see the hands of the nose?

Mr.

Seagrave, Dr.

Emmons, Mr.

Labourne, and Dr.

Aldridge.

Um, so the uh amendment passes, and we're back on the main motion.

Comments for members of the governing body on the main motion.

Mr.

Mayor?

Yes, sir.

I have an amendment.

I'm listening.

Section B items four and five to delete entirely.

And if I get a second, I'd like to make my second for discussion.

It's uh B four and five.

Yep.

And so that was made motion made by Mr.

Escobel seconded by Mr.

Seagrave.

Uh I think I'd like leaving it up to candidate discretion.

Um I think we all can agree we want to take the money out of politics.

But if grassroots campaigning is the only way uh new candidate that running for any office can get out and go door to door to promote themselves, what we're doing is we're leaving it up to more seasoned candidates that are able to raise money.

It uh also gives an advantage to incumbents.

And uh you know the only other ways to reach their voters is either by direct mail, which is very expensive, or by advertising, which is very expensive, uh and getting more and more expensive as you look at campaign finance reports and how much money actually goes into campaigns.

Uh in my legislative days, I never thought I'd see uh state representative seats going for a hundred thousand dollars, but they are uh some even went for close to a million in this state.

Uh city council seats.

You're you're starting to see them approach the 40,000, 50,000 range.

Um so I think if we we want to take the money out of politics, we should allow grassroots campaigning still.

We'll go out to the audience.

You've explained, thank you.

That for Mr.

Escobel.

Um, the two things the ordinance in each section talks about uh for the purposes of this subsection, engaging or conducting activities as a door-to-door solicitor shall include persons.

And um that would include a number four, those uh for religious organizations and number five, basically political activities.

And so I believe the emotion would be to delete those two areas entirely.

We'll go out to the audience, see if anybody wants to speak to these two amendments or these two areas being stricken from the ordinance.

Anyone in the audience?

Mr.

File.

Lee File, board one.

Amen.

Anyone else?

All right, how about from the governing body?

Dr.

Aldridge.

Mayor Collins for you.

I would like to know from our city attorney.

I guess a couple of things.

One, um, this again only applies to houses that have a no soliciting sign posted.

Um, so with that in mind, is this still problematic with First Amendment right?

I mean, don't homeowners have a right also not to have people knock on their door.

So, how is this a violation of a First Amendment right?

Or is it Mr.

Brody on private property?

That's a great question.

Uh, Mr.

Mayor, John Brody City Attorney.

Um, you know, uh when it comes to people's right to um prohibit or foreclose access to their private property, there really aren't constitutional concerns in this in this context.

Um, it's just as long as as the ordinance doesn't veer into uh content specific restrictions or prohibitions.

We need to stay content content neutral for the most part.

Um obviously there's a little bit of a nuance to that when it comes to um commercial speech.

Um, but to your question, um, I don't I don't see a legal concern.

Um private residences can ask people not to come to their property.

Thank you.

Dr.

Alders Paul.

Um yes, Mayor Collins.

Um one of the reasons that um as Ms.

uh Representative Feiler had stated earlier that this was brought forward was initially from constituents who were inundated.

And even today I received one more phone call from one more company who's going to be in my neighborhood tomorrow wanting to look at my roof.

Um so they it unfortunately have not all gone away, um, even though the hailstorm has gone away.

But um it was brought to uh my attention by constituents who were just inundated after the last hailstorm.

And um had a question about why now.

Well, because there will be another hail storm at some point.

Um, I think that's inevitable if you live in Cheyenne and with our given weather.

But I really I'm just a big believer that no soliciting means no soliciting.

And um, I know that all of us treat that differently as candidates.

Um, and I think most of us um in talking with council members um respect a no soliciting sign and don't um knock on that door.

But um I find it very interesting that um we would say that it's no soliciting for everybody except um religious groups or politicians, um but nobody else can go door to door.

So I just I am really um people put a no soliciting sign for on for their door for a variety of reasons.

Sometimes it's a sleeping baby, sometimes it's because they work a night shift and don't want to be interrupted during the day while they're trying to sleep.

Sometimes it's because they have mobility issues and they can't get to the door in a timely fashion before people have turned and walked away and then they're frustrated.

And um sometimes they have dogs that get out and every time they open the screen door, have been there and done that myself.

So I just think that um no soliciting should mean no soliciting.

Um, and maybe we need to go to the point of asking people in our community to put no trespassing signs on if they don't want anybody at their door, as Mr.

Lloyd suggested.

Um, but I think that when someone asks you not to knock on their door and not to solicit, whether you think you're selling something or not, let's be honest, candidates are really asking for your vote.

Um, and while we may not be selling that, many of us are in elected paid positions.

So we are asking them for their funding, their taxpayer dollars to fund us in that position.

So for that reason, I'm going to be a um a no vote on this amendment and a yes vote on the uh overall uh piece of legislation.

Anyone else from the governing body?

Mr.

Wolf.

Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

Um it's probably foolish for me to speak at my very first meeting.

Um I am speaking on and in support of the motion.

Uh, Mr.

Mayor and members of the council, I feel quite strongly that uh the particularly um the B five uh should be struck.

Um in fact, if this goes to committee, I'm gonna make that motion.

I have a fairly extensive set of arguments to it, which will address councilwoman Aldrich's concerns.

Uh, U.S.

Supreme Court has analyzed this in several cases.

Um, and it is a matter of balancing privacy with the First Amendment rights to campaign.

And the Supreme Court has come down in favor of the First Amendment rights of now.

Uh I don't know how this current Supreme Court would act, but uh there are uh a uh and and every community can make this balance in its own way.

For me, I come strongly down on the position that uh elections are really tough.

We need people to run for office, people who run for office shouldn't be subject to uh threats of uh criminal charges.

Uh if they inadvertently or intentionally knock on a door that has a no soliciting sign.

Uh and um the Supreme Court case law as it now stands is clearly supportive of that.

Um so um I'm uh in favor of this motion as it stands.

Uh I uh if this goes back to committee, I will make uh a motion and I'm going to try to make a draft a motion with the help of the city attorney's office that would in fact clarify this right so that people don't have to judge this.

And the one time that I ran for election for the legislature in 2016, I got kind of conflicting advice.

But the no-soliciting signage is been and has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to apply only to commercial activities, and that is not what happens in electioneering.

Keep in mind that uh we want the fifth and sixth pennies to pass.

We might in fact want to encourage people to go out and campaign in support of that.

And they should be able to do that.

And so I'm I'm we'll vote yes on this.

Uh no on having this go forward if it goes forward.

Um, then I will be bringing um some additional materials to the committee.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Escobille.

Mr.

Mayor, through you, I just want to hammer more on the point that I made earlier about the power of incumbency.

If you look back at Laramie County elections, whether statewide, countywide, or or city uh municipal elections, you will see that the incumbent has a distinct advantage over uh a new candidate vying for that office and being an incumbent and up for re-election next year.

You would think I'd be promoting the opposite of this.

Uh I think we need to have a um fairer and more balanced election uh field out there, and uh incumbents shouldn't have that advantage.

And we've really it's taken the money out of politics, Mr.

Labour.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Knowing that the reason we're acting on this tonight is really uh roofing and how that uh has happened with the hailstorm and all this door-to-door sales.

I don't think we'd be discussing this otherwise, but it's really good time to do so.

Um, obviously that point's been made, and it the complexities of this issue are myriad.

Uh I'm definitely interested in a better understanding of how this might apply to other sections of the city code, like the distribution of hand bills and the pamphleteering.

Um, I think that we need to really uh come up with some better language which would reflect uh in a in a briefer way this whole matter.

So uh I am speaking in opposition to this amendment, not because there aren't some points being raised here that need to be considered, but because as we amend and amend and amend, it really becomes less clear.

And I'm certainly no expert on the Supreme Court's rulings.

I think that we need to take that into consideration.

So I think uh certainly we can review this matter.

Uh, we're gonna it's gonna come back to committee.

I think we can discuss some of the things that have come up here, but I hope that we'll have some sort of better uh concepts than have been discussed here tonight in these amendments, because as we proceeded with this, it became clear that there were some really serious issues here that had nothing to do with roofing uh roofers coming to try to sell you something.

And so I speak in opposition to this amendment, and uh certainly uh my vote no on the main motion is an attempt to note that we need to really dig into this.

Uh certainly in committee we can do that, but uh this is a more serious issue uh then I gotta admit I understood it first, but that's the purpose of this process.

So uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Others in the governing body?

All right, we have a motion to amend that deletes B4 and five in its entirety.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

No, can you see the hands in the nose?

Mr.

Moody, Dr.

Rennie, Mr.

Labourne, Dr.

Aldridge, and Mr.

Whiter knows this motion fails.

And we're now back on the main motion.

Comments from members of the governing body.

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying excuse me, Mr.

Mayor.

I I this is just my uh unfortunately being new with this process.

Um what's the effect if we vote no on this uh on the motion to um uh send it to third reading?

Um, Dr.

Rendy, do you want to answer?

If the motion fails um on approval for second reading, then it dies tonight.

Okay, because there are parts of this uh that I certainly don't have any problem with.

And so uh if um if it died tonight, then those changes don't get made.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, um is that correct?

Correct.

Okay.

Doesn't mean a guy can write write another ordinance and come back with a uh a different way to look at it.

Thank you very much.

Yep.

Mr.

uh Dr.

Aldrich, did you want to speak?

I I yes, Mayor Collins.

I would just say that through you that um if this fails tonight, my suggestion would be to all of those individuals across our community who have no soliciting signs and don't want people knocking around their door to invest in a dollar ninety-nine no trespassing sign.

Thank you.

All right.

Or a dog.

All right.

So we're on the main motion as amended.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

I and those opposed.

I see the hands of the nose.

Mr.

Seagrave, Dr.

Emmons, Mr.

Wolf, Dr.

Rennie, Mr.

Labourne.

I'm a nine.

Oh, I I'm asking for the nose.

Okay.

Seagrave, Dr.

Ammons, Mr.

Wolf, Mr.

Labourne, and Mr.

Escobel and myself.

This motion fails.

Next item is 15.

Next items 15 on page three.

Resolution authorizing the city treasurer to discharge uncollectible debts pursuant to Wyoming statute 16-4-502.

All right.

Every year we uh uh look at debt that's over four years old, uh, that is uh uncollectible uh by bankruptcy, or maybe the person is deceased, and we have to write those uh uh discharge those uncollectible debts.

We've got to the audience.

There's 136,820 and three pennies.

And is anybody in the audience want to speak to that?

And when I said three pennies, it made me think of Mr.

Royble.

Hearing none, Mr.

Uh Mr.

Labourne, may we have a motion, please?

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to adopt, and I so move second, seconded by Mr.

Moody.

Comments from members of the governing body on the discharge of uncollectible debts.

Dr.

Aldridge?

Mayor Collins through you.

Well, I recognize that our city treasurer's office has really worked hard um and has a collection agency in place.

We continually find ourselves in a situation where we're having to write off debt.

Um, and it's extremely frustrating.

Um while 136,000 may not sound like a lot in our city budget.

Um, that is possibly two positions.

Um, it contributes to uh things like cost of living increases, all sorts of things that we could be doing with that money if we were able to collect the outstanding debt.

Um, I continue to be frustrated and uh really um quite honestly disgusted that some of our um people that we are writing off as debt are um individuals that do business with the city on a regular basis that are um parking have $900 in parking uh tickets is one example.

Um, or entities that have chosen not to pay uh their trash collection bill or have chosen not to pay for alarm, false alarms for their security systems.

And we continue every single year to write off more and more debt.

And um I well, I know that you know we go through a process and we try and collect that debt.

Um we just for whatever reason continue to have um individuals who don't see that it's their responsibility to pay their debt.

So um I'll be voting yes for this tonight.

Um, but um I would hope that people would take it seriously when you owe the city money that you pay your debt.

Dr.

Rennie, did you yeah, Mr.

Mayor, I um I was trying to find email, I think, from our attorneys, because I'd asked if so I want to I would hope that we would explore a little further.

There were several businesses on that list, and to me, it would seem that um I would like to have the ability if they come in wanting a permit for something else that we can hold that up till they pay what they owe us.

And the other thing is with I know you're soon going to be working on the budget.

Um our treasurer has said that this will still continue to be worked by going to um by a collection agency.

But my experience as a as a small businessman was that I had by the time I turned something over to a collection agency, I was probably not going to see it.

And when I did have success is when um one of my staff members would would take it to small claims court, we would get a judgment, and at some point usually got paid on those.

Sometimes it was a couple of years later, but it if somebody wanted a loan for a car or a home loan, and that judgment was there, they often came in to pay me to clear that off.

So that's a long way of roundabout way of saying while you're doing budget.

Um currently our treasurer's office does not have the manpower, the bandwidth to send somebody to small claims court to process these.

But it seems to me that perhaps we could hire an individual to do just that, then we may make their salary back and then more.

So I guess that would be a consideration I'd like to see for the budget.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Leiborn.

Mr.

Mayor, um I called this or I suggested that this be called off the consent agenda for a reason.

And uh actually reasons and uh my colleagues from Ward 3 and Ward Two, uh, very correctly uh identified some of the problems that we understand with this issue.

And they are um very frustrating.

Um certainly it's uh probably not right for us to uh be issuing city permits to people that have outstanding debt in this manner, but the legalities of that need to be fleshed out.

And my ultimate point is when we go through the budget and the difficulties that we're certain to face.

I think we need to really look at our staffing and note that um there are many, many very expensive projects that we undertake.

And it's very important that there be staff in those offices to manage and detail uh those expenses.

I think we're gonna have to look at some of the planning uh contracts that we do and see if they're really as necessary and as expensive as they are.

So uh I know this is gonna continue as has been noted here, and I'm certainly in favor of um following the recommendation of the treasurer.

This is something we have to do.

Maybe we could uh learn more about it, but it's my opinion that uh it's unfortunate that some people uh don't consider this to be important, but there are much more important matters for our city staff to be doing than pursuing uh a parking ticket or maybe a whole number of parking tickets.

Um there we are uh have important work to do.

I'm sorry we can't collect better, but uh this isn't really uh the magnitude that we would want to be uh hiring another person in the treasurer's office to be a bill collector.

Thank you.

Last comments, Mr.

White, Mr.

Mayor, through you uh I agree with uh everything that my colleagues from Ward 3 and Ward 2 had said.

Um perhaps there would be a way since uh many of our processes are now um automated that we can red flag those businesses who uh have not paid their their debts to the city and perhaps make those folks ineligible to bid uh on projects or uh even as Dr.

Rennie had mentioned uh obtain a permit.

I think that that would be uh something that would probably rectify a lot of the problem.

Mr.

Moody?

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor, through you, and I agree with my colleagues, but one option to look at at the state one is if people don't pay their tickets after 30 days, you know, their license gets suspended or registration gets suspended.

Some states do that.

I know uh Commonwealth of Pennsylvania does.

There's some for our state reps look into.

Thank you.

I wish we had that authority, Mr.

Moody.

That's a great suggestion.

Anyone else?

All right.

The road resolution is to uh discharge uncollectible debts.

All those in favor, please signify by saying I.

Aye.

Those opposed.

Thank you.

The resolution is adopted.

Number 16 resolution authorizing the execution of an outside user water service agreement between the the Cheyenne Board of Public Utilities and Wyoming King Gold Mining Company, Inc.

for section 36, Township 14 North, Range 70 West of the 6th PM, Laramie County, Wyoming.

All right, as a governing body, we uh approved an outside user agreement with uh the gold mine, but they couldn't get the easements to get it across a couple of ranches to get it to the gold mine.

So we had to come up with a plan B for adding water, which would be to take it out of Crow Creek or Cotrow Creek Crystal Reservoir or uh the pipe that comes from that.

So I will open it up to the public.

Is anybody want to speak to this?

Hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to adopt, and I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

White, Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Seagrave.

I move to amend by substitute dated November 17th, 2025.

Second.

Seconded by Dr.

Rennie.

And ladies and gentlemen, I believe the uh amendment is just from a comment that was made during our uh committee meeting, uh, that there needs to be a clause for remediation at the end of the lease uh or the the term of this agreement that uh Gold King would clean up all of the things that they built and bring it back to the way it was when they found it, or uh unless the uh Board of Public Duties liked the way it was and they could choose to keep it.

Did I get that right, Mr.

Strong?

Uh Frank Strong of the Shining Board of Public Utilities, yes, that's correct.

Uh Dr.

Aldridge made that comment.

We verified it wasn't there, felt it was appropriate, so we added it in.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate you doing that.

Um anybody on the governing body want to speak to um Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

I did attend the Board of Public Utilities meeting last week ago, and they considered this change to the MOU and the VPU board did approve it.

So it just needs our approval to move forward.

Thank you, sir.

Mr.

Moody.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you, and I do want to thank uh Ms.

Strong for calling me explaining everything.

And for the public, just note this is very common.

I know in the coal mines up at Gillette, they have a similar agreement there.

If there's B outside water usage, so thank you so much, sir.

Appreciate all the information.

Mr.

Lady.

Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

I speak in favor of the substitute since it basically um covers uh the protection of as I consider it, the ratepayers like myself, who if there is a call on the river and there's some serious uh cut our water system that is so reliant on the Colorado River, um the ratepayers will be uh paying, uh, but uh the gold mine will uh basically have to face the reality that there's not enough water for them too.

So this is uh I think something that certainly is occurring uh up by Crystal Reservoir on the way to uh our as a part of our water system, uh, but a very important part of our water system.

It's happening out in the county, it's regulated very strictly by the state of Wyoming, and there's going to be a big change for sure.

And the rate that they're paying one and a half times is certainly uh indicative of its special status.

So I'm very much in favor of uh this arrangement that's taken some time to work out, but the point is we're going to be selling that water, and most I'm sure I'm not alone here in opposing generally outside user agreements with our water.

And this is a very substantial one.

But in this case, I do believe it's appropriate.

Thank you.

Dr.

Alders?

Mary Collins for you.

I just wanted to say I appreciate uh the Board of Public Utilities um bringing forth this substitute.

Um, have quite a bit of experience with uh mining operations outside of uh Custer, South Dakota and Rapid City, South Dakota, and have seen um projects similar to this where the remediation wasn't done for the property once they were finished, and um really causes a lot of damage and um problems later on down the road.

So appreciate you taking this seriously and bringing forth the substitute.

If there's no other comments, we're gonna vote on the amendment um, which adds the uh remediation clause.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye, those opposed.

That motion is passed, and we're back on the main motion for the outside user agreement.

Um comments from members of the governing body.

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Mayor, I've generally been opposed to outside users agreements.

Uh this one is a little bit different uh as has been spoken to.

Um, there is a clause that uh, if we are restricted, they they are restricted as well.

The other thing I wanted to make sure the public understands this is a very limited time.

It's estimated to be 10 to 12 years.

It will create hundreds of jobs.

Um lots of uh income for the city, the county, the state.

Um, with all of the protections involved, including the substitute.

Uh, I will support it tonight.

Thank you.

Other comments.

Hearing none, all those in favor of the outside user agreement, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

The outside user agreement is approved as amended.

Number 17 resolution authorizing the submission application to the Wyoming Business Council under the business ready community grant and loan program on behalf of the city of Cheyenne for community readiness grant for the purpose of purchasing 8.37 acres of land for the development of affordable housing.

All right.

The city is uh asking, or I'm we're asking for city's permission to apply for a grant that would support building affordable housing in our community, specifically, this would uh allow for a hundred and eighty-four affordable housing units to be built.

Um, we'll go out to the audience and see if there's anybody in the audience that would like to speak to this.

Welcome, sir.

Everyone, this is uh I'm Jerem Johnson with the Wash group and uh representing Kamaka responsible development.

We focus on affordable development.

I know there's uh been some discussion on the different segments of our business.

So, you know, I wanted to talk a little bit to what our affordable division does and its focus, which is exclusively building affordable projects in the Western states.

We brought a gentleman uh into the organization a little over 20 years ago, one of the foremost experts in low-income housing uh developments, and he has assisted us in pursuing building senior projects and 4% bond projects like the project that is is looking to be developed on this parcel.

And those projects are uh allowed to work inside of a tax credit program that requires uh our application through the state's authorized uh you know scoring metric.

And so that can be somewhat nuanced, it can be uh a little bit complicated, but this structure that we've been working on allows us to optimize that application so that we can build as many units as possible um with that four percent tax credit program.

So we're excited to be in the city of Cheyenne.

We've been uh welcomed here.

We we really appreciate that.

We built a market rate project in a different entity that focuses on on those development, and we do master plans as well.

We don't do them here in Wyoming, but we do those in the western states as well.

So thanks for being here.

Anybody want to have any questions for the developer while while they're standing here before us?

Mr.

Moody.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you, thank you, sir.

Is Wasatch a private equity firm?

Wasatch is not a private equity firm.

Yeah.

So Wasatch property management is a management entity.

That's a single purpose entity.

Wasatch Equity Partners, which was referenced in that article that was written, is a single purpose entity that focuses on partnerships with equity investment.

They're unrelated in that Kamaka responsible development is unrelated to Wasatch Equity Partners.

They have a principle that is the same, but the structure of the entity is focused solely on affordable development.

Thank you.

Mr.

Moody, did that answer your question?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Mr.

Labourne.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to adopt an ISO move.

I thought you were asking a question, Mr.

Labourne.

Um I'm going to go back out to the audience to make sure everybody in the audience has had a chance to uh um say anything if they wanted to.

Hearing none, okay.

Mr.

Labour made the motion.

Was that Mr.

Moody that oh, Mr.

Wolf that seconded that?

Okay, now we're back to the governing body on the resolution allowing us to apply for a Wyoming Business Council business ready community grant.

Mr.

Mayor, Dr.

Rennie.

I do have a couple of comments, but before then, I guess I want to know just how we wound up in this relationship with this developer.

So and I know I'd asked that uh I and also a member of the public had asked that question at finance committee.

So can you give me some background on that, please?

Um, I would love to.

And um, you know, building affordable housing has been one of the goals that you know we've talked about as a governing body, but it's been really an important goal for me.

And um, as I looked at the way we build affordable housing in Wyoming currently, really the way we do it is we use nine percent low income low-income housing tax credits.

And that's a wonderful program, but it's really limited.

Um, there's only 3.5 million dollars of those dollars in the state of Wyoming every year.

And so if we're really lucky in the state of Wyoming, we'll build a hundred units in a calendar year.

Uh we just did Robin's point uh that we just opened here um uh just a couple of months ago.

That was a nine percent low-income housing tax credit.

And so we we're doing those with uh like the Wyoming Housing Network uh and other companies here in Wyoming, they have the capacity to do that.

So the question I was asking is how do we get larger projects?

How do we get more projects built, uh more housing built?

And when you start to look outside of Cheyenne and outside of Wyoming, you find out that they're using a program called a 4% low-income housing tax credit.

Uh, to my knowledge, no one is building new housing using 4% light uh light tech projects here in Wyoming.

So I met with a group called the McDermott Group out of Colorado.

I met with a company called Blue Line out of Montana.

Um, I met with uh Lincoln Capital.

Um, I believe they're I think a Los Angeles-based company, I'm not positive.

I've met with a whole bunch of different companies to try to understand why is it that they can do those projects in those other states, but we can't do them here.

I also met with the Wasatch Group when they very first came to Cheyenne to build the uh the apartment building complex that's on the corner of Converse and uh Carlson.

They're building, I think they built over 300 and they're in the process of getting that to over 500.

And during that meeting, we talked about a promise they made to build a thousand units because we had that WCDA report of uh we needed to build 5,000 units by the year 2030.

And so I challenged their CEO.

Could you build us a thousand units?

And they said we can, and they're on the they're well on the way.

And then I I asked, I said, Do you guys happen to do um affordable housing projects?

And the answer was yes, they do.

And the couple of the gentlemen that are sitting there now flew in and visited with us to talk about that.

And so we've been working literally uh and talking about this for the last three years.

And I think that the challenge is is that well, let me go back.

I took a deal that was done in Denver by um the McDermott group down there, and I gave it to some of Wyoming's low-income housing tax credit builders, and they can't do it.

It's it's it's a really complicated, challenging thing to be able to do all the machinations that are required to be able to build a project like that.

And uh they said they just couldn't do it.

They're gonna stay with their nine percent.

So we started to look out and and try to recruit companies from outside of Wyoming that could come and have that capability.

And uh, so I literally I met with Mr.

McDermott, I met with uh I met with all these people with a hope that someday somebody would figure out how to make it work in Wyoming.

And I think the challenges here are that um our rents aren't as high, our population bases aren't as high, and these projects require larger projects, like this one's 184 units.

So you in order to be able to make these work, you know, you have to match all of those components.

And uh what they need um is a small amount of local money in order to do it.

When I met with the companies in Colorado, they said sometimes between around 20% of a project has to be paid for with what they call soft money or money that comes from the community in Denver, Dura, the urban renewal authority down there will put money in.

The state will put money in.

The uh uh the county will put money in.

Um in this case, um, it's an over 40 million dollar project, and we need to put in about 3.5 million dollars.

So it's significantly lower uh to do that.

And um that's kind of how we got here, sir.

Was uh the we started with market rate housing.

Uh, I was looking for ways to build much larger numbers of affordable housing, and the only way I could figure it out was low-income housing tax credits at 4%.

And the fact of the matter is I don't think anybody who doesn't get 4% or 9% low-income housing tax credit dollars can build a low of an affordable housing project like this.

We're capitalists.

HUD sets the rents, and you got to be able to make your project inexpensive enough when you build it to meet those HUD rents.

Well, you can't buy land and you can't do all of those things.

I guess unless you're a billionaire who just doesn't care about making money, um, you know, we're capitalists.

The only way to do it is these kinds of projects.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, because I I appreciate the explanation.

I wanted, as I said, wanted to understand why we weren't using a local or Wyoming firm.

But if you've contacted them and they don't do 4% Litech, then at least they've been asked.

Sure would be nice if they would get to learn how to do it, but that's where we're at.

So, Mr.

Mayor, I guess my comments on this are we did get a little bit of pushback um in committee and have um also in the public hearing on this, and the comment was made that it's not our business as a government to be involved in private industry and housing.

Um private industry is doing this, but we get to get the tax credits, they do need some help from us.

And I do want to point out to the public one, first of all, the money's being used with CDBG funds, which are to be used specifically for something like this.

And also a gift from a new company in Cheyenne that was given to the city specifically for this use.

So it's monies that it's not coming out of the general fund, it's not coming out of anybody's property taxes or coming out of anybody's sales taxes, but it's money specifically used for this.

So I wanted to make that clear.

Um I also want to point out that the US Chamber of Commerce recently started a new initiative and had a meeting called Building for Growth Housing Solutions for Stronger Economy.

And one of the statements that came out of there as is that when workers cannot find a place to live, businesses cannot hire, when businesses cannot hire, communities cannot grow.

And we so if we're going to continue to attract new business, continue to grow our economy, which we need to do, um, we need to have housing for people, and we need to have affordable housing.

And this is a great way to for us to um try and address that issue.

So thank you, Mr.

Mayor, for giving me the floor for my Dr.

Rennie, thank you for bringing that up.

We do have to match the WC or the Wyoming Business Council grant.

And as you said, uh a half a million dollars that will come from our community development block grant dollars, which are designed to help the low low-income uh group in our community, and the rest of it is gonna come from a grant that we got from related digital, a new business here in town.

They uh promised $3.5 million to help us build more affordable housing in the community.

And what the Wasatch group has said they will do instead of just building 184 units, we'll take the WCBG money and a small part of the uh um related digital money, build this first 184 units, and the leverage the second have to build a second 184 unit project in our community when they can find the appropriate place to do that.

So uh we're gonna get a little bit more than what we bargained for when we first started.

Dr.

Emmons.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I think that this is a great example of a private part private public partnership, which is critical.

Um when I decided to to try to run for city council, the two things that I really harped on was the fact that we've got to have more for more housing that people can afford.

And second of all, one of the most critical ways to do that is through a public-private partnership.

And I think this is a great example of both of those.

But I think we also have to be realistic about the fact that we've been talking about inadequate housing for a bazillion years.

I don't know.

I can't remember a time we weren't talking about this, and it's not getting any better.

So obviously we have tried the tried and true, tested way, and it's not worked.

So it's time that we've got to get creative.

We've got to look outside the box, we've got to take some chances.

Um, and I think this gives us a wonderful opportunity to do that.

So I am very supportive of uh going forward with this issue.

Mr.

Seeger.

Mr.

Mayor, I'll be very brief.

Anyone that doesn't think government should be involved in helping develop affordable housing is living under a rock.

As recently as two weeks ago, there were elections in this country, and affordable housing was the primary issue.

Uh there was a meeting last Friday, but between the president and the mayor, the mayor elect of of New York.

Primary issue is affordable housing.

At every level of government, affordable housing is the primary issue.

This is a very unique way of doing it with CBDG grant matching funds with with help from a private uh source.

As you mentioned, there are no local tax dollars going to this project if we can obtain this grant.

So by all means, uh, I'm going to support this.

Um, and I have little or no uh interest in hearing that government shouldn't be involved with this.

This is our number one project.

Thank you.

Mr.

Wolf, did you have comments, sir?

Uh Mr.

Mayor, thank you very much.

Um, and uh speaking on and in favor of this resolution.

Um the comments of uh my colleagues uh on the council, and I just want to pay all of you a compliment.

Um, I've just been watching this issue from afar.

Uh and uh I think the uh the level of attention that you paid to it, Mr.

Mayor and members of the council and your staffs um is um is really remarkable.

And um what you have uh been accomplishing and continue to try and accomplish.

Um, I'm fully supportive of it and hope that uh I can continue to as a member of this council to uh support the efforts to to get these projects uh up and running.

And thank you for all of your efforts.

Thank you.

Mr.

Escobel, uh Mr.

Mayor, through you, uh you briefly touched on it, but the 25% match through the Wyoming Business Council was difficult for smaller communities in Wyoming to try and meet that.

And we were lucky enough as the uh sitting member of the city council on the advisory council for the community development block grants.

Uh that was repayment and carryover money for land acquisitions.

And when we looked at that in this project, it was the perfect place to put that money and leverage in that 25% match.

Uh you know, like I said, we're we're in a fortunate position and I'm happy to support it.

If I could, when we were first elected um in 2000, uh when we uh the Shine Housing Authority had about a thousand families on their waiting list.

Uh, when we were elected here um almost a year ago, that list was about 2,000 families.

I think that demonstrates the need for affordable housing.

To your point, Dr.

Emmons.

Anybody else?

All right.

We have a motion to uh uh authorize us to submit an application to the Wyoming Business Council.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, no.

Mr.

Moody is a no.

The resolution is adopted.

Next item is number 21A on page four.

Agreement between the city of Cheyenne and Safe Harbor, a children's justice center to provide a safe and secure environment for families who have been affected by abuse.

All right, we have a contract with uh Safe Harbor uh that we put into our last budget to provide uh uh forensic interviews for children who have uh undergone abuse.

And um we'll go out to the audience, see if anybody wants to speak to this contract before us.

Lynn, welcome.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Lynn Heiler, uh, director of Safe Harbor, a children's justice center.

Um, members of council, um, children are your most vulnerable city residents.

Um, and I I am very appreciative of the partnership that we've had with you for all of these years.

Safe Harbor's been in operation for 26 years.

It's kind of hard to believe that we're we've been doing this for this long.

Um child abuse and neglect cases are very complex.

And because of that, there's multiple entities that work on these cases.

And Safe Harbor provides a structure that everyone can work together on these cases, because that's where children fall through the cracks.

When entities are not working simultaneously, law enforcement, social services, prosecution, um, victim advocacy.

When we're not all working together, kids fall through those cracks.

So Safe Harbor is a children's advocacy center, and we support that model of everybody working together.

The other thing that we do is through forensic interviews, we do them at Safe Harbor so everyone can come and watch those interviews.

We're a neutral entity.

Um, and we provide that level of skill across the nation.

Forensic interviewing is the is the best practices model of how you talk to children who have been maybe abused and neglected.

And so we provide that that skill set, that um ability.

And then everyone who's working that case comes and sits and watches that interview.

So that child does not have to jump through multiple hoops um while they're going through a very traumatic situation.

Um, we're really proud of the relationship that we have with the Cheyenne Police Department.

We love our detectives.

We love our detectives because that's who mainly we work with.

Um, just recently, um, and looking forward, Safe Harbor is going to start working on maybe training some of the patrol division.

Because what we've noticed is that sometimes when patrol gets the case first off, um, maybe they need a little bit of skills on how to gather that information so that they don't hurt the rest of the case.

So we're going to be working with patrol on doing some training, and that's really exciting for us.

Um, I I don't know, but I like I'm a I'm a numbers geek.

Um, last year our numbers were down all over.

Um, and I checked with other entities, and that was kind of across the board.

Child abuse was down a little bit.

I will hate to say that's not going to be in 2025.

In fact, I think our numbers gonna are going to be higher, but that's that's child abuse.

We can't predict it.

It's not one of those that I can I can predict how it's gonna go.

But interesting, and I think from the committee, this was kind of interesting.

So females are more likely to be abused than males, which I think is interesting.

Um, between ages of seven and twelve are your highest population who are more likely to be abused.

The person most dangerous to a child is a parent, unfortunately.

It's kind of split between what we see at Safe Harbor between sexual abuse and physical abuse.

It's kind of 40, 37.

And then if you are have disabilities, you are at higher greater potential for abuse and neglect as well.

We so appreciate the money that you give us.

Your dollars only pay for the forensic interviews that we do with Cheyenne Police Department.

Other entities pay for their interviews as well.

I am a nonprofit, and so we have to have money that flows in to be able to do what we do.

So the sheriff's office pays for their interviews.

Um, Lair Me, Mayor, Lair Me, Wyoming, because I do a few for them.

They pay for their interviews.

I get VOCA, Victim of Crime Act dollars from um the federal government through the division of victim services that pays for any outside agency entity um that come up because we're global.

So I do do forensic interviews.

So if you um the crime was committed in, say Matitzi, Wyoming, but the family now lives in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

We do the interviews here.

A lot of times those are um the assisting outside agencies.

Um, and we do a lot of those because families are very global.

So your dollars do go support the forensic interviews.

And when we talk about the forensic interview, it is the life of the case.

And there's no statute of limitation in Wyoming on abuse, um, sexual abuse.

And so I can do a forensic interview at say one point in time, and it can be five years down the road before it ever goes anywhere, goes to court, it has enough information to kind of build a case.

So you're getting my skills for the life of the case as a forensic interviewer.

You're getting my skills to go and testify in those court cases as well.

Um, and to defend what we did as the forensic interview.

Um, I'm very proud of our our relationship that we have with you guys and with Stan for any questions that you might have for us.

For me.

Anybody in the governing body question for Lynn?

Thank you for being here.

Thanks for all you do for us.

Thank you.

Anyone else in the audience want to speak to this?

Hearing on Mr.

Leborn.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation from the finance committee is to approve in an amount not to exceed 20,000.

And I so move.

Second, second way.

Was that Mr.

Moody?

Comments for members of the governing body.

Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

Layborn.

There's a reason I asked to have this uh removed from the consent agenda.

I think it was important for all of us to hear from Lynn on what she does and how she does it because about the most important people in our community.

And when we look at something as difficult and as horrifying as child abuse, it's something that I think this city can be very proud of that we've had this long-term relationship for this amount of money.

It's uh really to me a very important point that should be made.

And uh as was pointed out, we don't know how or why uh these processes happen.

It's uh very tragic.

I applaud the fact that we are going to be helping to train those patrol officers, because I think we can all imagine the responsibility that officer has when they go to a home and have to document in some manner um those facts that will be coming forward, and it is really critical that that child be able to have enter into something that is very difficult for them, which is eventually testifying in court.

And so um I think it's worthwhile for us to talk about this as a group, and it's certainly worthwhile for those that are watching this at home or following us through other uh means to understand uh our commitment to this, because it's not just a commitment of this agency, it's a commitment of our police department.

That information goes to the courts and what and certainly there are uh the right of those people who are accused of abuse to bring their attorney and try to poke holes in this matter.

So this is one of the best things that we do, and I think it's important that we note it as such.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Mayor Collins through you.

I just I wanted to um express my gratitude for the work that um Mrs.

Hyler does, and I think that you know, while we're we this one particular item was pulled off um of our agenda this evening.

Um, it really is um just representative of the investment that we're making in our most vulnerable populations when you look at um the three items that are being approved tonight, um or stand to be approved between VOA, which deals with rehab and addiction, and then also our Laramie County Senior Services.

I think those all of these are most uh are our most marginalized groups in our community, and um I really appreciate the work that is being done.

Um I've had an opportunity to um work with Lynn and her office and her um services and had her come into my classroom um every single semester for years uh to talk to our teen parents because if we can prevent it from happening on the front end, um that's a better investment for our dollar.

So appreciate the work that all of these groups do on behalf of our most marginalized citizens.

Anyone else from the governing body?

All right, we have uh an agreement with Safe Harbor.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

This agreement is approved.

Next item is number 21D, professional services agreement between the city of Cheyenne and HDR Engineering Inc.

for the compost operations plan project.

All right, is there anybody in the audience who'd like to speak to us about this professional services agreement?

Hearing none, Mr.

Labourne.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of finance.

I have you turn your microphone on, please, sir.

Thank you.

Second.

Second by Mr.

Escobel.

Comments from members of the governing body, sir.

Dr.

Aldridge.

As a point of information, I'm just curious.

My um the cover sheet I have says $93,580.

That's what I have also.

Okay.

So okay.

Um let me take a look here and just make sure I got it right.

Cool.

Mr.

Mirror, we've broke something, Mr.

Liborne.

Thank you for uh catching my mistake.

Um the uh request, Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to approve an amount not to exceed 900, excuse me, 93,580 and I saw move.

Second.

Still have Mr.

Escobel as a second, we have the corrected dollar amount.

Now comments for members of the governing body on this professional services agreement.

Yes, sir.

Dr.

Aldrich.

Mayor Collins for you.

Um, I'm wondering um it this talks about um the information that we received talks about evaluating the contract would reevaluate current operations, productivity, and potential improvements and provide an actionable plan for the facility.

My question is, is that in um keeping the facility, the compost facility at its current location, or will this also include or is it a plan that would include moving the compost facility?

Greg, thanks for being here tonight.

Craig Lavoy Public Works.

This plan is not site specific.

So it is we're roughly at 18 acres where we're at now, and that's where we would probably look for a new if we were to relocate, we would probably look for the same size of lot.

But it can be adjusted.

It's but we need about 18 acres.

So this is kind of a best practice is if you had 18 acres, how would you set it up?

That's correct.

Thank you.

Follow-up, Dr.

Aldridge?

No, that's what I wanted to know.

Thank you.

Mr.

Leyborn.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, this is pretty serious uh matter.

And I have a question from Mr.

Lavoy.

Go ahead and ask it, sir.

Mr.

Lavoy, um I think we all know that uh there's been consideration over time of bringing the compost facility into the immediate adjacency of the transfer station and thereby the uh uh sanitation department that manages it.

Is that correct?

Mr.

Lavoy.

Uh through you, Mayor, the ideal location if we were to move would be nice to be next to the adjacent transfer station through D Wyoming DEQ, it would allow us to incorporate that facility into our existing transfer station permit.

If we were to go to another location, it would have to be a sole permit for that location only.

So that is the ideal spot, but there's only so much land available by the transfer station.

So whether we go there or not just depends on the ease of it.

And and we've discussed this with DEQ, and they too agree that that is a good site for co-locating those two operations.

Mr.

Mayor, I'm concerned that we're um taking this action without a better understanding of what's to occur, because fundamentally the compost facility is a large um uh facility that uh very important to keep that uh uh organic waste out of the landfill.

It's uh sometimes produces odors that neighbors don't care for too much and takes a lot of property.

So if we're not talking about locating in at the ideal location, what in the world are we talking about?

There just are not a lot of places within the area that uh either the city or individuals bring that uh waste, that organic waste that really is uh quite quite large.

I'm I'm concerned, Mr.

Mayor, and and uh I think we're gonna be discussing this as time goes on, that we're beginning this process.

Um guessing as to where that's gonna go.

Well, there's no guess where it's gonna go.

There's only one place that makes sense.

And I think we all know that there's been discussion of that.

So I guess as time goes on, we'll learn more about this, but I think this is not the proper way to uh begin this matter.

Um, I think we need to be very clear where we're considering moving, why uh we're moving.

I understand that uh the airport board uh believes they have a responsibility to get market rates for such a facility.

I can't imagine what kind of an analysis you have for market rates for such a unique and unusual uh facility.

It's really um unique and unusual in our in our community.

So um, although I'm certainly not speaking in against uh planning, long-term planning and efficiency, I'm speaking against and I'm gonna be voting against this idea.

We're gonna hire this group of this, these individuals for this amount of money, and be alleging it might go here, it might go there.

I think we know where it needs to go.

I think it's where we've talked about and planned, and that so this full explanation is necessary here.

Um certainly uh having noted since the creation of the Comfos facility, uh, what a service it is, um, how we actually financially benefit somewhat from the sales, and that it is uh really important in in a variety of ways, and it certainly could be uh more efficient if that's the determination.

But um at this point, I think this is uh premature.

I think we need to be able to say where we're gonna move it to.

Um, how we were going to acquire uh that property if that's the case.

And so um, there are questions that need to be answered here.

Um, and certainly I know down the road we're gonna be talking about it, but I want to call uh the council's attention to the way this is being handled.

Thank you.

Mr.

LeVoy, if I could ask a follow-up question, is I understand this plan.

If we don't move, you want to improve the efficiency of your current site.

And if you do move, you want to have a plan to be able to do that.

Uh yes, Mayor, this plan's not site specific.

It's going to address things, how we mix, how we blend ours, how we turn them, how we take temperatures, how we test the quality, what product we're producing.

Um, whether the piles located in the corner of any lot, it doesn't matter how we're rotating through.

It's not really site specific.

Thank you, sir.

Any other comments or questions?

Mr.

Moody.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through I want to concur with my colleague from Ward One.

Um again, we're just looking at fish to see an actual site plan saying this is where we want to move it and have the actual locations.

Uh, that's why, again, I'll be in no vote as I was committee.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Dr.

Aldrich, yeah.

I'm sorry, Mayor Collins.

I had one more question.

What percentage of this plan would have to change?

Like if we had to do a change order, uh, Mayor Collins for you, if we were to change the location of our the site.

Um how much of this plan would we be able to use that we're paying this $93,000 for, and how much of it would have to, we'd have to basically have to do a change order or another contract on if we were to change locations.

Mr.

Louboy.

Uh through you, Mayor.

I I would guess that probably very little.

It's really not site-specific.

I mean, we're if we're talking 18 acres, we're talking 18 acres.

It doesn't, whether it's square or rectangle or diamond shape, I don't see the difference.

Thank you, sir.

Anybody else?

All right.

Before we have a professional services agreement, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

No.

No.

Dr.

Aldridge, Mr.

Labourne, and Mr.

Moodyer knows the professional services agreement is approved.

Next item is number 24A on page five.

Report detailing planning and development department findings in accordance with city council resolution number 6489 regarding recommended amendments to the UDC that better balance the city's long-term tree canopy and environmental goals with the practical needs of smaller lot development and housing affordability considerations.

Mr.

Bloom, do you have uh an update for us?

Mayor members of the council, Charles Bloom Plan Development Director.

Um, first of all, what we will be asking today is that you all acknowledge receipt of this.

This is similar to other reports like ones for the urban renewal authority that we have given before.

So that's what I'll be referred to committee.

This is in follow-up to the resolution that was passed or adopted back in October, which asked the planning and development department to provide a report within 45 days regarding recommendation, recommended amendments to the UDC that would better balance small lot development and housing affordability considerations.

One thing I would like to note this isn't a discussion point regarding should trees be required with neighborhoods, should street trees be required, should ornamental trees be able to substitute.

It really was geared at looking at how does the street tree requirement for larger canopy trees relate to smaller lots that have utilities in close proximity, and how does that affect overall affordability?

45 days is a pretty tight timeline, but we were able to do it.

We ended up having a lot of discussion within staff prior to inviting the stakeholders to try to figure out the best way to tackle this and dissect exactly what was expected as part of this resolution.

In the end, we had a meeting on October 6th with staff where we had finalized our direction as to how we're going to move forward with this item shortly after that meeting.

We had invited a total of uh it was about 14 stakeholders that were from all across the industry in construction to attend the meeting that next week.

Um, that was sent out by calendar invite seven days prior to the meeting.

Uh, some of those folks, I don't think they were aware of it initially.

We called to follow up with them to alert them of that.

Um, in the memorandum, we have folks that were represented at the meeting.

Uh, we had uh local realtor, uh, two folks uh very familiar with construction of housing on small lots.

We had several landscape architects, we had a representative from the state forester department rooted in Cheyenne, uh, several landscape uh businesses here, including Big Bird Landscaping and Magnum Tree Service.

We had the city forester, uh, we had um other staff representatives and a representative from the Board of Public Utilities.

Um, during the invitation process, there was an invite to Black Hills Energy, and we had a lot of discussion with them.

But over time, we've worked really well with Black Hills Energy, especially when it comes to their overhead utilities that um are more oftentimes a limit on these sites.

Um, in those cases, uh, we have a process built into our development regulations that allows for uh smaller ornamental trees to be placed.

So they don't interfere with those overhead utilities.

Um, in the end, um, it was discussed and and noted in the discussion that occurred after about a 30-minute presentation on the trees.

Um, that there are challenges that are oftentimes unique when placing large canopy trees or any tree or landscaping within a small front yard area.

Uh, it gets more challenging when a sidewalk waiver is granted.

However, the developers did clearly state they do like that sidewalk waiver.

They do like the attached sidewalk because it holds up better uh during construction.

Um that's not what our code says right now.

You have to have special permission for that.

And when they said those challenges are things like utilities, uh, there are challenges um that um are uh there uh with water and sewer, but it's not impossible to plant those trees in those locations.

One of the primary issues that they had indicated is that when they called the 811 service for locates when they're putting the utilities in, not all the time the franchise utilities were properly located, causing unnecessary cuts.

Um but they said with further coordination, um, that could be something that could be alleviated.

Um, secondly, there was a discussion about how that message was relayed to the developers and the builders as to when that tree needs to be put in.

Specifically, in most Novembers, the weather would be a lot different outside.

And folks would not be aware of, well, do we have to put the street tree in today, or we don't get a CEO?

That's not the case.

We need to do a better job of getting our information out to say you can provide a financial security where that tree can be delayed and have a planting for six months or so until the weather is nice.

Um, in addition, we uh did look at the overall cost of housing uh from permit based on permit valuations that were provided, as well as uh average lot cost in the community and the average cost of a tree.

Um, that overall cost for a tree, even rounding up to a thousand dollars for install.

Um, it equated to approximately one-third of one percent of the total construction cost of a 1600 square foot finished floor area home.

Those are ones that are commonly being built up on Thomas and Ridge right now in the Saddle Ridge development, and there are some other ones in Whitney Ranch that are floating right around that square footage.

I mean in the end, the consensus of those that were present at the end of the meeting there was that some of the key takeaways with with our street trees are number one, uh they really are an aesthetic item, trying to build that broader canopy.

Number two, winter maintenance continues to be the biggest issue.

We have winter watering specifically where people don't water their trees during the winter.

Trees need water during the winter.

If you have new trees right now, they probably need water, so you should water them.

Um in addition, there needed to be a lot more descriptions and access to our recommended tree planting list for street trees.

Um, as of publication of this memorandum, we've ensured that the street tree list is now online.

It's on our website under our supplemental information.

And we're going to continue to expand that, not only just to have the list because everyone's not going to know what the list is, but essentially create a book that has images and pictures so you know what you're getting, and then identifying which ones work in tight areas and smaller areas and have lesser uh of a of a span and coverage over them.

Um, secondly, we understand that there's additional need for better um education regarding winter watering.

Um, so we can look at ways to provide information to folks as they complete the development process.

And the final thing was that we needed to look to continue to improve our interdepartmental communication regarding when plans shall be submitted for tree plantings.

Um, and in fact, with a subdivision and road development, one of the requirements under present code right now is that a tree street tree planting plan be provided.

Um, that has generally happened, but we need to make sure that that plan uh continues to be something that is visible and known by the developers throughout the process.

Um, our recommendation this time is that the unified development code does not need changes in response to the direction provided by the resolution 6489.

However, we do understand that there still is a lot of discussion and some concern from the community regarding just the requirement that they plant a specific tree and there isn't freedom to do whatever they would like when it comes to planting.

That discussion uh we believe would most be most appropriately handled through the unified development code annual review, where comments are um being accepted for the upcoming January and February meetings with the governing body and the planning commission through January 9th.

Um, I'm open to any discussions that you all have or questions regarding this item that you all have.

Dr.

Aldrich, did you have a question for staff?

I do.

Thank you.

I'm here calling to you.

Um I really appreciate that uh you your time and effort to do this.

Um, I just want to reaffirm that the opportunity for input from the community is still available through the portal uh for changes to the UDC regarding trees through January 9th.

Um, if there are things that were a result that did not come out of this as a result of the meeting with the uh six individuals that were stakeholding stakeholders who were invited along with the staff.

Mayor, through to Dr.

Aldrich, that is correct.

And that unified development code uh comments period is open all year long every day.

So one can make an application.

We simply collect all of those comments that first or second week of January to give us a little bit of time to dissect and research and any comment receive, any comment, um, it always is brought forward to the um city council at that work session and that planning commission at a later work session.

And a second question.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Um, I know that in talking with you there we had some conversations about um evergreens versus deciduous trees and um the misunderstanding or an uh lack of awareness by the public that those are not on that approved list for being planted in front yards.

Um, and the reason for that, um so I'm wondering when you put together this booklet that you had talked about, um, if there will be a clear delineation of trees that are approved for front yards versus those that would be approved for backyards, um, and where um evergreens versus deciduous trees would be allowed to be planted.

Mayor through you to Dr.

Aldrich and the council.

Um, for clarification, the requirement is one street tree, which is typically between the sidewalk and the curb.

If that can't be done because of an attached sidewalk, then that street tree has to be 25 feet from the back of curb, essentially, the property line.

Um that would be a minimum.

Any trees in excess.

So if there's an additional tree that could go in a larger lot or even a smaller lot, like a pine tree or even an ornamental, those could be in addition to that street tree.

The street tree intent is to create that urban tree canopy to offset some of the uh just the heat and everything and and everything that's caused by development of concrete and increased impervious surface.

It's to create that shade and keep those temperatures down.

So it's and to answer your question regarding the um informational material.

Yes, we will um be including what are acceptable pine trees and those types that could go in into the ground here, and we can clarify that how the street trees relate to that.

Thank you.

But Mr.

Boom, I want to make sure people know evergreen trees are not illegal to park in your or plant in your front yard as long as you've already planted a street tree.

Mayor, through you, that is correct.

I just make sure that that that sound bite got out.

Thank you, ma'am.

Yes.

Mr.

White, did you have okay?

Anyone else?

Mr.

Mr.

Leighborne.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um it comes to this issue.

You mentioned uh Mr.

Bloom that uh the annual review was probably the time to include this in the recommendations.

Could you give us a timeline of the annual review?

Mr.

Bloom.

Mayor, members of council, council member Layborn.

Uh, the annual review window is open 24-7, 365.

It's an online um application.

You just fill out a form, no cost, and it logs that concern.

It can be anything from a I have concerns with uh building materials, what a building looks like to a specific request saying, I want to amend the code to read this way.

Um, those are gathered up all year long.

And then in January, we start to pull them together and we formulate a memorandum that goes to the city council at a work session and then the planning commission, where we have a summarized list of those items.

The goal for us during that annual review process when we go to the city council's number one to see if there is a temperature where the council wants to actually have us proceed.

Um, and then the second item um at that meeting is they can just direct us to make those amendments.

The next meeting of the planning commission also is one where we relay what we heard at the city council work session, and then per the unified development code, the planning commission is able to direct us to make specific amendments on their behalf.

So really it's uh everything wraps up the end of December, goes to the governing body for review, and then it goes to planning commission for review as well.

Thank you.

Mr.

Moody.

Yep, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you, uh, thank you, Mr.

Bloom.

Can you just email the uh council the link for that form, please?

Mayor through you to uh council member Moody, definitely I will.

Thank you, sir.

So I all right.

We have before us the acknowledgement of a report.

Any other comments from members of the government or uh any comments from the audience or anybody from the governing body?

If not, I would entertain a motion to acknowledge receipt.

Second Seagrave, Dr.

Aldridge.

Last comments for members of the governing body before we vote.

Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

Report is acknowledged.

24B voucher report.

Is there anybody here in the governing body or in the audience that would like to speak to the vouchers?

Bring the next item, please.

Revenue report.

Same thing.

Governing body or the audience, anybody want to speak to the revenue.

Next item, please.

24D announcement of a public hearing to be held December 8th, 2025 at 6 o'clock p.m.

in city council chambers, 2101 O'Neill Avenue, Cheyenne, Wyoming, and via electronic conference meeting for a transfer of ownership of retail liquor license application filed with the city clerk's office for Cheyenne G S L L C doing business as high market, Cheyenne 215 East Lincoln Way, Cheyenne, Wyoming.

License currently held by scooter scoreboard LLC doing business as scooter scoreboard bar, other business.

All right, we'll go out to the audience.

Is anybody here to speak to us under other business?

Welcome.

Hello, I'm Katie Brady, uh, executive director of the Laramie County Senior Activity Center.

Um, I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to the mayor, the city council, and the city of Cheyenne for their continued support of our work at the Laramie County Senior Activity Center.

You we could not do what we do without your help.

Since opening our new facility at 4100 East Pershing Boulevard, we have had made remarkable increases in participation of all of our programs.

We've expanded our offerings by 40%.

Some of our newest programs include cribbage, knitting crochet, art classes, and more exercise opportunities.

Following the closure of the YMCA, we were fortunate to welcome two of their former instructors who now lead our new line dancing class and also uh three additional exercise classes.

As a result, since August to October alone, our activity participation has increased by 60%.

Since our doors opened in July, we have welcomed 1,239 new applications to the senior center.

And we continue to serve more than 2,000 meals per month.

Our social media presence has grown significantly with the with engagements rising by 60% from May to October, demonstrating that Cheyenne residents are truly interested in staying connected with what we do.

The senior center also operates a free medical loan closet available to anyone in Laramie County.

Individuals can borrow gently used medical equipment, such as wheelchairs, walkers, canes, and more at no cost.

We are open Monday through Friday from 8 a.m.

to 5 p.m., offering both breakfast and lunch each day.

We host more than 20 weekly programs that support the health and independence and well-being of our senior community.

We would like to say thank you to Dr.

Alrich for reaching out to us concerning civic conversations, which will begin in January 2026.

Um last week we hosted our Thanksgiving feast on Thursday, and we served more than 220 seniors.

That's a hundred more seniors than last year.

We thank you again for your support at the senior center.

Your help keeps our seniors healthy, happy, and independent.

So thank you.

I love your new facility.

Thanks for being here this evening.

Appreciate you guys.

Anybody else in the audience would like to speak to the governing body?

If not, we'll go to the city council.

And I first thing I'd like to just say to everybody is uh it's my favorite time of year.

Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday family gets together.

And I'm not just not always the same for everybody, but uh I just wish everybody a very very blessed Thanksgiving.

Anyone else?

Mr.

Mr.

White, we'll start at you.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, I too wanted to wish uh everyone, particularly city staff and their families a happy Thanksgiving.

Um, it's one of my favorite times of year as well.

Um the second thing that I wanted to discuss was earlier today, and we've heard on a couple of occasions this evening that our most valuable resource in our community is our children, which I couldn't agree more with.

Earlier this morning, two young boys walking to school, were hit by a car in a crosswalk.

While the crosswalk was flashing a walk sign.

So the uh driver was my understanding is the driver was sighted.

The morning sun did play a part in uh impeding the driver's vision.

Um, so that is certainly regrettable.

Thankfully, thankfully, those two young boys are okay.

Um, minor injuries, but it does demonstrate how much work we still have to do when it comes to crosswalk safety.

And I don't know what what part uh the governing body can play in that, but we need to play some part.

Um, it's obviously that we're not doing enough.

Also, though, drivers need to really really put down the phone.

Uh the phone was not uh part of this unfortunate incident.

Um, but we we know that distracted driving is still a huge, huge issue.

And so um I'm I'm so grateful that the driver was going slow enough to where uh this wasn't a very tragic situation like we've seen uh in the past over the years.

And I certainly hope that uh we can do more as a council as a city.

I know our city engineer sits on the uh district uh safety committee.

Um maybe one of us needs to start going to those meetings too, because um it's still an issue.

And um, hopefully, hopefully together we can uh we can work to really not only bring more attention, which I think the ForMac Foundation certainly has done uh very effectively, but but really put in some play into place uh some mechanisms, whether it be uh better crosswalks, more hawk systems.

Not sure what the answer is, uh, but we we really need to uh be proactive.

Thank you.

Mr.

White, just this was not a hock system, this was an uh a typical crosswalk.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Escabel.

Yeah, I was gonna speak about that incident as well.

So it's Rossman Elementary that sits there on the corner of college and Walterschein, and those two neighborhoods to the south there.

Um unfortunately the the kids don't use the underpass there.

It is one of those ones that's in a bit of a flood zone and usually gets full of water.

Uh one of the kids even told me they found a rattlesnake down there, a live one.

They didn't play with it, but you know, so there are other dangers out there and uh like my colleague to the left of me.

So we definitely have more work to do, keeping our children safe in this community.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Uh Mayor Collins, I just wanted to um remind everyone that umce you've uh made it through your Thanksgiving dinner that um our community does have a big Christmas parade that will be held on uh Saturday evening starting at I believe at 5 p.m.

Um there will also be a lighting of the um Christmas trees on the plaza um that is being done and I believe that's all uh starts at 5 p.m.

And then the parade will is after that.

5 15.

So there is Santa Claus's.

I hear that he's gonna make an appearance at the depot as well.

So um just there are a lot of things going on on our community, and I hope that uh people will get out and support our uh small businesses and our community uh business owners um as we approach the holiday season and all of the festivities that are planned for the community.

Mr.

Moody.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor through you, and thank you to my colleague from Ward One.

I know both my colleagues from Ward One here.

We worked hard on the uh for safety and worth traffic and crosswalks.

But you said we got more work to do.

It's very unfortunate happened, you know, to our children here.

But Sam want to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving.

Uh, don't forget about our military, our firefighters our police officers, our sheriff's seputy state highway patrol and our uh nurses and doctors at the hospital as they have to work on Thanksgiving, you know, doing their job and also to keep us safe.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Dr.

Emmons.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I think that you all received an email on Friday from um the Symphony, Cheyenne Symphony Orchestra.

I sit on that board, and I just wanted to make sure that those of you who didn't see it, um, they had a wonderful symphony last weekend, two weekends ago.

And um at that time they recorded a commercial album, which was amazing.

And um the people who were doing the recording, they are Grammy winning sound engineers, and they were very complimentary of Chris Muggenberg and the Civic Center crew, and um commented that he wasn't sure what he was gonna get when it came to Cheyenne.

Um were but they were very impressed with Chris's knowledge and leadership of the team and with our facility in general.

So I just want to recognize um our civic center team and their leadership and um thank thank them for that and encourage everybody to go to the next symphony too.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

If not, we're adjourned.

Thank you.

Everyone have a happy Thanksgiving.