Yeah, definitely outside.

Thank you.

And like I can see both of the random ends.

Okay.

It is recorded.

Okay.

Well, this is the um Draper City Parks, Trails and Recreation Committee meeting for Wednesday, September 3rd, 2025.

And we are in the um conference room next to the uh city.

Um we call the council chamber.

Um we don't need to take role, but I'm gonna so first order business uh is approval of minutes.

Does anybody have any edits or corrections to if you can remember the micro?

Is there a number that John can call into?

Yeah, it's the same one exactly.

Well he says it's been reassigned to someone else.

Yeah, I don't know.

There's no phone.

Oh, it's over there.

But I don't know if that's the same number.

Call J.

Oh.

Is there any side of calling this?

I guess we could call his number.

Yeah, what's his number?

Hey there, hey.

Uh recycling some glass.

It is 801.

Okay.

Eight.

Jamie.

801.

Oh, 301.

2412.

Tell him to pick up.

Thanks.

He's gonna see a number he doesn't recognize.

It's not a telemarketer.

Can we move it over here?

How's it going?

You think it's gotta be above?

Can you hear us?

Yeah.

Can you hear us?

You're in the corner over here.

I don't know why they they moved it.

Well, yeah, when I called it when the company and go.

I don't know.

Oh weird.

I don't know.

So we just figured we'd call you.

So what's interesting is it ran through.

It ran through on the number that I have at my contact with.

Oh, really?

Well, then you can't even add it to your contacts.

Is it the same under the editor?

I don't know if it's a well.

Strange.

Yeah, because I couldn't figure out how to get the number off of this, but well, not here.

Alright.

Oh, we're trying to get the cord out so you can be kind of more in the table.

Alright, then we'll try to.

That's a good idea.

Okay.

So we just uh started the meeting, John, and we just uh we're looking to approve the minutes.

Anybody want to make a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve.

Second.

Second.

Okay.

And then all in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed?

All right.

Okay.

They're approved.

Um popular in it.

We're popular.

We don't have a meeting for months.

A lot of pent up interest.

Okay.

Um e moto use.

Yeah, I'll start us off as basically just uh we received as well as Mike Green Councils received uh various uh comments from residents about eMoto.

Um there's some background on the on the use of that on the screen.

You're getting feedback because we're cracking down?

Are you getting feedback that warranted the cracking down?

Uh I think it's maybe we're getting a bunch too.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Are we talking about like serons?

That's I'd like to say that they are I live right on the you know Port Rockwell, and I'm out there playing pickleball, and I can hear them whizzing up and down there 40 miles an hour.

They're really, really shouldn't be the serrons on that.

And the kids are running up and down that so for what it's worth.

So I think we can discuss a little bit about the issues, but there has been some request about visiting some trails or an area for them.

Uh building a Sauron park.

Where I don't know.

Is there a precedent for that?

Like, do we do you know of other cities or places that have done that?

I wonder when that is.

Is that like a motocross track?

There's plenty of motocross places that those saurons can go if they want to.

Yeah, no lab, there's less desert if they really want to go someplace like that.

Right, I'm just wondering if cities have something specifically in the city.

They have one out by um the I wonder if that's the kind of record I'm looking for.

There's a moto place out there because we play soccer out there at the rack, uh the out close to the airport there.

It's about um yeah, I think that's a little more.

Just off 215, but I don't know what city that's in, but they have one.

Or that maybe that's a county thing.

I haven't heard of any cities accommodating forum for the most part.

Cities are cracking down really hard.

Just because they they've now been designated as off highway vehicles or they're dirt bikes.

Motorcycles.

They just happen to not have motorcycles, yeah.

They don't use motorcycles.

Yeah.

Well then there's another classification of the of the e-bike as well, the class three and class two that aren't also allowed on any of the bike trails and draper.

Correct.

Um having a maybe one directional path that's only for class two and above, maybe speed limiting, I don't know.

The um here here's the next thing that I just was at the bike shop an hour ago, and there's a 20,000 1995.

1995, new bike sitting over there, and I it wouldn't even notice, but some kid said, Oh, there it is.

And his dad said, Oh, the 20,000 dollar bike, and I go, You guys really have a bike here?

That's 20 grand.

It's an e-bike.

It's the level four.

Yeah, special edition.

The person at the counter said, Yeah.

I said, What is it?

You know, what makes it so special that it's so expensive?

And he said, Oh, he went through the list, he said, and you can just switch it and it's a one to a three.

So now it'll go 28 miles an hour.

So that's what we're up against.

I think that's what's coming.

If you're gonna spend that much money, there's a barga out there that's a really nice electric motorcycle.

So anyway, so that's what's coming, I guess.

For those who can spend 20 grand.

I don't think the number of these bikes is gonna decrease.

I think it's only gonna increase.

And I think if you want to get kids off of these trails, giving them another place to ride, it's gonna be personal.

That's my only stance on it.

I'm an adult, I can take our bikes anywhere we want to go.

It's these kids that have got nowhere to go and get chased out of everywhere they do go.

But were you gonna present something?

This is an open question, yeah.

Discussion.

Okay, I wasn't sure.

Yeah.

We have we have PD enforcing it, especially then in high school.

So I'm getting a lot of people angry that want forcing it.

Okay.

But uh good.

So what about the what about the little dumber scooter?

Yeah, how do they enforce it?

That's my question.

Because if the kid doesn't have a license, not a sidewalk or uh, I mean they don't have a light problem.

They're four or five grand, I think.

So if you confiscate them, that's pretty good.

The dumbers are speed limited, so they're class three at the worst.

They're not class three because they don't have pedals.

Right, class three has the throttle and no pedal.

Well, under 28.

The he's talking dumber scooters are completely different than a class.

But the dumber scooter is still 750 watt, but under 28.

It doesn't have workable cranks, so it's not it is not it's not a just makes it a class three.

It's not an e-bike though.

What makes it a class three is it has to have different than a scooter scooter if they're gonna be a few.

It has to an e-bike by state law, city law has to have workable cranks.

It have to has to have workable cranks, and that doesn't include the serron with a little crank kit.

That is in county.

Yeah, nice try.

I can buy a bike pedals and put it on any bike if I really want to.

Yeah, but they have to be workable.

It's a pedal assist, is what it's supposed to be.

Well, pedal assist is level two.

Pedal assist with a throttle is level three.

Level three is pedal assist up 28 miles an hour.

Level two throttle on a three.

I mean, last time I read that that's what it seemed like a different thing.

Class two is class two is throttled up to twenty-eight miles an hour.

So then three what's it is pedaled up to twenty-eight miles an hour.

No problem.

It doesn't seem right, but it's a more actually more closely than the weird, but the three is the only one allowed on city trail.

Well, that's the only one around.

No throttle.

How to make the trail space?

By the way, uh they they are making they are making a battery where you can install a crank that looks like a crank that doesn't do anything.

Yeah, we're just talking about that.

Yeah, yeah.

Surron tried that.

They we we've actually had people ask that.

Well, I've been mouthed off by kids about that.

Yeah, they put those on and they think that they're all of a sudden they're classics.

Well, that gray area is filling up a ton right now, too.

Like Segway just released two bikes that are pretty fast high capacity motorcycle looking bikes with pedals.

They're still set.

I still think they're 750 watts.

But but uh but that I think is why the speed at 20 miles an hour is uh critical thing.

They can put whatever they want and they can modify and do all this stuff, but it's a bit of a number 20.

It's not a class one.

Like even the wattage of the motor shouldn't matter as much as the speed.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah, um I don't know, like I don't know where we're gonna build any more trails, period, let alone build some area.

I mean, if we're is it a question of building or are there like unknown trails that you could your market?

We're not giving up a trail.

Well, I don't think that's very popular.

I don't mean to be too.

I don't mean to be too like it, but I just don't see us saying, oh, you hikers or your bikers are going to give up a trail so the e-bike's gonna have to do that.

The issue I have is we'll get we'll get if we open up something for town electric motorcycles, they're designated as an OHV, then we are gonna have if we open up something to them.

What about the gas-powered motorcycle?

And they're like, hey, we're motorcycles too, why don't we get in?

That open space has got a lot of restrictions on it as far as what we did and agreed with the county.

That's a really good point.

Well, to me, the biggest difference between an electric and non-electric motorcycle is both the weight class that it's in and the noise that it produces.

Um to me, the winner goes to the electric just for those two reasons that you can put them in places where people won't be complaining about the noise and they won't cause as much as much damage to the trail.

They're about half the weight.

Well, Mike has a point though.

I mean, the the all the open space that we have, for better or worse, is in a conservation easement that's restricted.

And so the best thing about that is it can never be uh made into houses, right?

But the other thing about them holding the county holds it, we don't hold it.

So we don't have any say there it's all set out in the the first part of the when we first agreed to put it in the open space.

Okay, and we have some leeway where we can barely put a bathroom in there.

We can put a bathroom, we can put a trailhead, we can put you know certain things like frisbee golf, or you know, there are some things that are are like somebody wanted to do a chair lift.

We can't, it's not in the thing, right?

Yeah, like somebody was like, I'll pay for a lift assist or whatever, and as much as we like people would love that, it's not really you can't really do it.

What about like gravel access roads and those sorts of things?

Like we just went biking up in in uh PACI, and we just rode on a gravel access road that was OHV, and it was a lot of fun.

All of our designated open space is non-motorized, yeah.

You know, we have yeah, we know if you go like a map, there's nothing within 30 minutes of breakfast.

Well, American conservation easement too, the conservation needs meant nobody county doesn't allow.

Yeah, even change it to motorized.

So that's we did that as a council on purpose, so some other council down the way wouldn't undo what we did.

Oh, for sure.

Okay.

Brian, can I make a motion?

Uh it's not an action item, so you can't it's a discussion item.

Um so I don't know if you guys know we saw Mike on council prep for this year for probably the whole three meetings we have.

No, we're gonna we're gonna make up ground.

Okay, we're gonna have three three a month for the next let's do it.

I'm just kidding.

Um just send some options and recommendations you want, and then we'll figure out how to weave into an ordinance on how to handle this because I'd like to.

Isn't there already an ordinance?

There is, but if there's a way that you guys can just get to like a concept.

So I wish that I knew everything and I had all the answers, right?

And I wish I could just do no, but I don't.

And so we have these great committees and all you guys members of the community that are out doing things and know things.

And so I want your expertise, I want your knowledge, and we want to bring that up, and then we can put together a policy that either says no to these outright, and then I get PD to work it, or if there is something that makes sense that's workable, then we're happy to like move that along and get it and get it taken care of through the public process.

But you know, we rely on you guys to bring us the expertise.

I don't know where to put trails, I don't know what the best trails are.

Well, there's nowhere we I can't think of a place where we could put one, and this was one of the reasons years ago when they did the OHV study, is when you talk about how long does it take a person to walk a mile, hike a mile, right?

Or you know, how far can or sorry, how far can they go in one hour?

You know, maybe three miles.

How far can a mountain bike go in one hour?

10, 12, 13.

How far can a motorized vehicle go in an hour on a trail?

We don't have the space for them.

You know, we need we we would need a lot more trails, and also in the city ordinance, now that they're classified as OHVs, it's already in the ordinance that serons are OHVs, therefore they're not legal unless they have the turn signals, the brake lights, the mirrors, and then the whole the whole age for things.

I don't know, there's anything on the road.

Yeah, they still have they would not be on the trail.

Yeah, just to be clear.

Yeah, they can't be on porter rock.

All of a sudden the surrons are got turn signals on.

If I recall when we had that OHV study years ago, seemed like they said a minimum of 50 miles or something.

Yeah, it was something crazy.

Well, the the BLM has a best management practices document for OHV trails, and we felt eight out of the ten requirements to put in OHV trails between proximity of homes, soil type, shade, distance, all that stuff.

And one of the other things that keep you know the to take in consideration is like there are other trails people can walk to them or even ride their bike to the trail but at facility like this every would have to legally fit there they have to trailer it in or bring a vehicle which means a huge parking loting.

And the other thing to take in consideration is if we're the only one you know you're gonna get the only game in town you're gonna get the whole the whole valleys and Park City.

Yeah so you guys go to a lot of conferences and you workshop with other cities and stuff and you're not aware of anybody that's handled on this no they're cracking down hard because there's been the accidents are just it's like rollerblading in the 90s it's like that's what the yard visits are.

A good friend of mine was was hit on his road bike on the Jordan River by a Siron $10,000 damage to his bike broke like four ribs.

Well and the you know I get they're gonna be more and they're not putting this genie back in the bottle but the rules and the rules the laws of law they can't you know like this is not these these user groups cannot come together not to mention the the way the conservation's written but you know we have a hard enough time with bikers and hikers and equestrians trying to get along and then adding that into the mix that it's a it's a hot topic.

Yeah the quest is not the it's to really some of that abrasion if that's impossible.

No I understand I totally understand and that that we have found that the bikes only downhill and you know where it gets the user groups apart and there's hiking only trails it works really that's the best to get them you know and so I understand the concept of it but it's unfortunately where our hands are tied because of the conservation zone.

I'm I'm just worried about these scooters where they're 10 extra 10 inch wheels and they're just gonna be faster and faster.

And that's this like if anybody knows physics like that's the least stable combination that you can put together small wheels and high speeds.

Yeah right there and they're uh I I fear that it's gonna take somebody getting killed on those numbers before somebody finally cracks down on it.

I believe our legal department PD is working up something on this tire scooters because that's that's again that's why it has to come back to speed on building maybe you can shed light on this but I I heard a rumor one time that that the it was very very unpopular for us to crack down dumber scooters because the people who are around here that send their kids to school and dumber scooters would not have it is that are we getting pushback from there's a residents about that there's a business that uh it's a draper business.

There's a business that uh made a lot of uh issues to include a uh to include uh threatened litigation over certain things so um we kinda adjusted strategy with that a little bit but they still be able to enforce it have you driven that drop off at the middle school I'm all for drummer scooters just that's the other side of it right it does have that but my my fear is at least if you've got a 16 year old or above driving it's like you know the way runner right kids don't have to take like a it's a big big course yeah because some legislator had a kid or a grandkid or somebody got killed on a weight runner.

And guess what?

Now there's a big huge thing and it takes like literally four hours to take it.

I I joke that my kids could navigate by the stars and cross the ocean you know after taking this course it's crazy.

But that's so that you can ride drive a wave runner legally on the lakes because you're gonna kill somebody right and so that that's my concern with the dumber scooters you got these 10 12 14 year old kids that don't know a thing about the traffic laws or young they're just zipping across in front of people and right out I've seen them come out on across streets where they don't even look I I've had and I just I'm so scared on those little surveys right at our car I saw the other day like barrel down ramp with made a right hand turn on to highland without even looking and the car was coming down highland for you know 40 miles an hour someone's gonna die an adult is going to feel guilty the rest of their life it's terrible but so I I you know the threat of litigation from some business I mean at that point we have to also look at the safety of the citizens you know at some point that was part of it so um at least with the dummers they do have throttling on the state right so again I put those in a little bit different with the classification is then like the surround style bikes which really have no place but I think the real problem with folks comes with they're really white the decision the city council made like six months ago or a year ago to allow them on the sidewalks.

But it's true.

But I think the real problem with folks comes with they're really the decision the city council made like six months ago or a year ago to allow them on the sidewalks.

Which makes no sense to me at all.

They asked them to ride on sideways.

Yeah, side street.

At least use the bike lines if you're gonna need you so there's no bike lanes everywhere.

Yeah, sidewalks is a really bad idea.

Those things that can go 40 miles an hour.

The other thing that that's got pedestrians we don't have sidewalks.

The salespeople at these places are telling these kids that buy the surrons and you know that they can ride them on the trails and they can't.

It's a sales pitch.

You know, they're like, oh, you got all those trails there, and they can't, you know.

They don't once they make the sale, they don't care.

You know, and they're they're kind of misrepresenting it.

So maybe maybe that is another ordinance that every everyone sold in the city has to have a a sticker on it.

So this is not allowed to break your trails.

Yeah, that would go a long way towards uh the salesman not being able to screw around with the truth, you know.

Maybe that's part of the working system.

I'm happy to look at that and see if that's something we can make is a requirement.

Yeah.

Sometimes that gets tricky.

The state has done something similar with e-bikes as well.

The law they passed last year.

E-bikes and I want to say serons too, they've had to make it clear that this is not an e-bike.

When the e-bike explosion happened a few years ago, salespeople were doing the same thing before they were allowed, yeah, in Corner Canyon.

They were telling them, Oh, you're good, you're ride them anywhere.

Yeah.

We accommodated those, but as you say, there's no safe way to interact with user groups in Corner Canyon.

And I and I would say that you know, we we kind of I think we approached it with a uh we'll do a pilot and we'll see how things go, and we'll reserve the right to res you know rescind that.

And we've had pretty good, I mean, you're always gonna have conflicts, but I think for the most part, there's a few bad apples, but it it's no different than any other user group.

I think that they've been pretty good because they respect the fact that if we're no but if we're not behaving, we're gonna be kicked out, you know, and and and we're forward thinking, like Moab didn't allow it, Park City didn't allow it.

We're ahead of the curve on that.

I've had a lot of other cities at other conferences and stuff ask us how we dealt with it.

I said, you know, it really hasn't been that big of a deal.

Yeah.

Um I said, really, our issue is you know, someone going on an e-bike really going fast uphill.

I said, other than that, it's yeah, you know, the whole weight thing and tearing up the trails, it's there's no restriction there.

We've been there several times.

We we have people go with us every time and rent bikes and no restriction.

So they're another they're they're kind of a mecca of mountain biking, and and I don't know what park cities ever gonna do, but you would think that those are they put it, they put it to the citizens and like with like 70 percent they said no, and they've got a couple little trial areas.

Or you gotta be on which town.

Their problem up there though is that they don't have any enforcement.

So people are I know people are right up there all the time with me because they know nobody's gonna say anything to them.

So anyway, at least we have a ranger.

Oh is it safe to say that everybody on the committee feels the same way about the Siround situation?

I would love to find some accommodation or place for them, but I can't think of one.

But we should not dismiss it outright, maybe that we could.

I mean, you got American Fort Canyon five miles about the only places that are half an hour to an hour drive, and that's it.

And they all interact fine in American Fort Canyon, you get motos and mountain bikers and hikers and equipments interacting.

Not always peacefully, yeah.

But they interact where you don't go to American Fort Canyon.

Yeah, and and to be honest, American Fork, some of that is kind of not fun anymore because it's so chunked up, it's so torn up.

Yeah, and it's really had a bad effect on the on the really bad conditions of the trail.

And and Greg will tell you, you know, we get private help to build these trails, but then you know, we have limited resources on maintaining, rebuilding, you know, all this stuff.

It just becomes, you know, it's like the old Golden Gate Bridge thing.

You get done painting and you go back to the other side and start painting again.

You know, it's we just can't keep up with what we have.

So I don't know how we would accommodate anything like that.

And people all the people that I know I have several friends who have serons, they love them.

They all also own motorcycles.

And they none of them even consider riding here because they just know the rules of motorcycles, so they go elsewhere.

So I agree that I think that if we if we open it up, we'll have everybody in the valley coming out here.

Yeah.

And then we found it's harder to take stuff away than to not allow them in the first place.

I mean, it seems like the sandy draper area is kind of a desert.

There's not really anything super close to us.

But if you go anywhere else, there's other places that are close to people.

So I don't know if I agree that people would flock to here.

Unless we build something amazing.

When we opened up e-bikes, and when we f when we first had probably 12-15 years ago, we did a test off leash area and we had signs at all the junctions and everything, people flocked here.

Really?

The majority of the day would come from Park City to here.

Oh yeah.

Park City saw Lake Bountiful.

You could do the same right now.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It's that way with mountain bikes already.

We have to be our downhill.

I mean, we're like still known for mountain bikes.

But then word gets out, they'll be we'll be known for we'll be known for surrounds too.

That's the problem.

Yeah.

There's a there's a little thing called social media that unfortunately.

Why about a lake for paddle boarding?

That would be nice.

Yeah, that would be great.

Is there a lake in parks?

They were gonna do that one in Highland and they it's been on and off again for a while, but it's off again.

I mean, from my budget perspective, that canyon has become a regional park, and Draper pays for it exclusively out of general fund.

We have park impact fees, we have donors, right?

Yeah, but I have to account for that.

We're paying for that in people from Sandy, West Jordan, yeah.

Alpine Lee High.

Right.

And so we have an amazing facility.

But from a fiscal spot, I'm like, well why am I paying for everyone around?

Right?

So I've makes me want to like have a mountain b mountain bike club fee.

Yeah, makes me it makes me want to have like some type of thing.

But I can't I think you want to be you want to make it open, right?

Like your Draper Resident It's free, but um, you know, if the canyon gets too crowded, I mean that's an option that we have to start exploring because at some point in time they're not paying paper city property taxes that we are.

And we're the ones who are paying for it's a tragedy of the commons.

I don't know if any of you guys have ever heard of tragedy of the commons where everyone's cow goes on the everyone doesn't bear the cost of the pasture and the pasture eventually gets destroyed because everyone's putting all of their cows in the pasture.

And so we're if we get to that point, we're gonna have to start figuring out how to make that a toll good instead of a uh instead of a public good.

So we we want to be very cautious of that and encourage ever use with really or have a competition once a year as a fundraiser.

Theoretically there's some economic benefit right to people coming here, but I don't think it's ever been quantified.

Right.

It's we ha we have software that can look into some of that and it's it's interesting to see that scary software.

There is some very scary software, but yeah, people it was pretty enlightening to look at it.

People come from all over the country, yeah, you can see at times.

The draper days data that they presented yesterday at the council meeting.

It's the same software.

It's terrifying.

Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't it doesn't just need your phone.

Well it uh it it does it flock.

It's it relies mostly on phone.

And yeah, it does a lot of LPR to license plate for years ago.

No, this is this this is all very they're very big road.

It's all based on phone, and if you have any sort of app that tracks your location, your track Google but if you look at look at how many bikes come across, you know, from I I think about if we sit up here at the Chevron on a any any time of day or especially on the weekend, and you look at all the cars turning with bikes on and stuff, okay.

They're not they're coming from like Sandy's a half mile away, right?

They're not coming.

There's not that many draper residents that live there, you know.

So we know, and you see them on the freeway, you'll see bikes and they're all getting off on the exit, you know.

So yeah, it it brings people from along but I think we do have a great trail system, and so they it's we're loving it to death over that.

But anyway, I don't know that we can entertain that because of the restrictions on the I understand the plight, but anyway, we should probably move on.

Um Greg's gonna give us a review at a Maple Hollow downhill trail.

Oh yeah, so um talking with Dustin and Rick, uh Dustin's currently working on Carpe Diem.

The plan was to have him go start on Octum.

Um but Rick's been riding Maple Hollow downhill a lot.

He's like, that needs it a lot worse.

There's lots of skitter routes, there's lots of erosion, there's places where we need a machine in there to widen some things, and I know Doug's shaking his head.

I am too, because I I just I think it needs it, but it gets a fraction of the use that Octree does.

I've talked to Dustin extensively about it too and skipping over lots of parts of it.

Really just going in and fixing some of the erosion issues, some of the skinning routes, the shortcuts.

How far does that put back the Octune project though?

Probably next spring.

I mean, it all depends on the weather, you know.

Yeah, most of the things we'll send them in there to fix the switchbacks.

Yeah, most of the stuff is below hands, or just barely right above and the stuff that we did a couple years ago is still in good shape, but some of the lower stuff that WAFT had originally built the hand.

Yeah, the the one landslide area.

It's awesome.

I don't think so.

But that's my opinion.

Come out of some of the drainages and stuff.

There's plenty of room downhill.

Yeah, this maple hollow downhill is it has a primitive feel that you can't get somewhere else.

And I've had that discussion with Dustin about leaving it, and he's like, oh yeah, I know.

If if you're gonna turn anybody loose on it, though, it needs to be dusting.

Yeah.

Please.

Well, and please like I wrote an internally.

I'm begging you.

I wrote Carpe Diem the other day, and I I really was you know hoping that we could kind of keep the same feel, and I think he really did a good job.

I mean, it's it still feels narrow enough that it feels like there's a lot of a lot of complainers on social media, but it's a bit of a freeway.

The problem the problem though is that I wrote I wrote that the top part that you read it, and it's awesome, and you're flowing through there and all that, and then you get to the next section, and it's all overgrown because nobody's riding.

Right.

So that if the people want to complain, then they should more people should have been riding.

It's the same thing that's happening with Zuropa.

It got super overgrown because everybody hated it.

Yeah, and nobody wanted to just wasn't fun.

Now I have to send Dustin down there, yeah.

And yeah, it's a flow trail.

No, I mean, but it's one of the most popular trails over there now because he did such a nice job.

There was even some idiot in here that wanted to keep the original alignment.

Yeah, but I really like it.

I really really like it.

It's the one I picked to go down.

I wish we had the time and the money to do a single hand-built trail.

It's just we learned our lesson on the case.

Yeah, and it just didn't work.

Yeah, no.

But I will say that um I looked at like some of our our hiking stuff over by over Gaussians Falls over in there, and I think I talked to you about this.

Like that feels like hand cut, but a lot of that was or most of it was done with the machine, it's just very narrow.

That's what that's the trade-off, and I think you can do a little compromise and use that small machine and do that where it feels like hand cut, but hand cut takes too long, and if you have people some of the rocks and routes that we run into, it just we saw with that carpet deal.

And the crew we had, they weren't a mountain bike.

They weren't, no, and they didn't know what they were doing.

But but it I was up there a lot because I I felt for them.

They're camping up there for crying out.

Like we would take them treats and stuff.

And they bless their heart, they didn't know what they were doing.

So but there was a lot of stuff that was almost unimaginable.

Do we need to decide which goes first, Octana or Maple Hollow, or have you already decided that?

I've already decided that.

Okay.

That wasn't a discussion.

It wasn't a boat.

Got it.

And I mean, chances are weather depending, it may not happen until next year.

Yeah.

So but then that pushes back to him back for.

Well, Dustin's had some, he's had some issues.

You know, he broke his leg, and then he had to go pick up some equipment, drove all the way to San Diego, and it hadn't arrived yet, and he had to pay like you know, import taxes or something.

So if we're talking about fixing some of the things on Draper Downhill, Maple Hollow Downhill.

Why did that ever get changed, by the way?

Is it Draper before?

It was always Draper Downhill in the beginning.

Oh, yeah.

Before your time it was even downhill.

No, it's always been it's always been Maple Hollow because originally it was a multi-use trail that was built by Troy Duffin that was horrible because he had a he had to build it within the sewer line.

Suncrest paid him to build that, and it used to exit right out into the neighborhood.

Um, like like two houses up from Tasha, because that's where the sewer line easement came through.

Troy Duffin built that before I before I started.

He built it without a snowing yet for Suncrest.

And we later talked on an aerial, like, oh what is that?

So we went up and looked at it, and like this trail was steeped.

And then it was a map, and he's like, I'm I just built it where the developer told me to build it.

In my mind, the biggest things we need to fix are the switchbacks above hands.

But we need to move the intersection.

So you can go straight across either straight across, but ideally do a flyover.

Like that's in Lehigh.

Lehighs Dream.

And that can't be that expensive.

And I think you know, Brad and I have talked about looking at there is there is that uh um geocut just a little bit past the entrance um to the south.

Yes, to the sound worth rerouting both of them if we could use the geo cut to go under.

Yeah.

But you can you if you reroute.

I haven't looked at it.

My my thinking is this I think we ought to keep the original entrance to Maple Hollow downhill that's been there forever because it's at the top or at Anne's at Ans.

Okay.

Um rather than move that location because that that is that is one of the earliest trails that we had out here.

And it's a filter.

And you've got that feature that is kind of iconic to that trail.

And I don't know.

I'm waxing this nostalgic, but I don't want to see that changed.

But well, here's my question though.

Well, if you have a flyover, aren't you coming off that flyover with too much speed for that?

That's i like part of it is maybe maybe if you did a flyover, you yeah, I see your point.

In the way maybe you have to have the ands people go over in the other.

That would be harder to do that for sure.

But the w where Anne's is in there, and's is a much gentler grade, it may be a whole lot easier to reroute and maple hollow downhill.

How does that help though?

I don't know.

Maybe you have to do your flyover somewhere else.

You could reroute and downhill to where we drop into that pit.

Geocut.

Oh yeah.

Do a bridge over that.

So just below and you do that little ramp and then you drop you drop it down into that geo cut, reroute ands, and have ands go over the downhill.

Do you know who built that flyover for Lehigh?

Yeah.

Um single tracks.

No.

Was it?

No, it was uh the ones that other guy the one that called trail.

I thought it was single trail.

It was an anvil.

No, single trailer.

Oh, um trailer.

Nature trails are single.

No.

Blazing trail.

Blazing.

No, it's blazing and then it's a it's not blazing.

It's nature.

It's not a word the conversation.

So what am I sent for?

Well, you you have a pretty good idea what what those bridges cost on uh maple hole south.

What is a bridge cost?

Like five grand?

I don't know.

Depending, I mean flyover's gotta be similar, maybe a little bit more.

I would say 10 to be a safe bet.

My guess is that footing over is gonna have to be three times as long to make the break.

Yeah, so you're probably looking at 15 but that's still because if we reroute and lower and go over that.

It would be no like it would be easier to have the flyover for a multi-use trail potentially than for a biking trail.

That's a cool feature.

Then we would then we could just leave Maple Hall down that was saying.

But you still gotta make it a straight.

You're saying the flyover would be what?

The bridge section of it would be for Ann's trail.

Okay, and so the bikes would go under it in the geocapit.

I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

I think if we can point out also, I'd like to maintain some of the original fuel.

Oh, well, so yeah, I don't want to it would be routed so that ants goes around some of it, you know.

There's some cool rock features and stuff too.

But on that section there, lands is fairly flat or level, so we've got a lot more to work with to make up grades versus you know, trying to make up something on a downhill, it's a lot more complicated than it would be just to make it.

Have you guys go do a site visit and figure out and already got rerouted and through there at least twice, didn't it?

From its original alignment.

If you guys project, it was a different alignment.

That's something we get in October.

Way back.

Yeah, that was hand building.

Because we would go through places and you could see where the the trail was supposed to go through a clump of trees and they would go down.

Yeah.

Question we have though is does there need to be access from Ann's trail to the maple hollow downhill?

Yes, probably okay.

Yeah.

And that that's easy.

That's easy.

You just make a little off ramp there, and so yeah, you know, this access to maple hollow stay right to go on and just like it already is, yeah.

Yeah, or just wait for you to fly over, then like a off ramp or something.

Yeah.

You you might just have to merge that off ramp down a little further.

So one of the beauties, I think, Greg, of Draper Downhill, Maple Hollow Downhill, is the options that you have different lines that appeal to different people.

Um, and that's I know you're concerned about too many trails popping up in there, but some of the really good stuff in there wasn't there originally.

It's there now.

Yeah, uh, but it's good.

And maybe we don't have to get rid of all of it.

I mean, is there is there a reason we can't have out lines?

Yeah, I mean, some of them you know, luckily the soil there isn't like what we have up above the upper road.

It it doesn't erode as bad.

Um, but on a lot of those skidder outs and stuff, the erosion is just gonna continue to get worse over time.

And you know, the original intent of corner canyon is to preserve the resource, it's not about having fun on fun lines, and those skitter outs have become more popular in places, especially social media.

So we would have to look at each one kind of individually and say, look, if there's two here, what are you doing?

You have to keep them all.

Yeah, I understand your point, but I think we shouldn't limit it to just one single line down the no.

I mean because you have you have to take a split to hit um I mean you you take a split to the right to hit the the wall right, which is a sanctioned feature.

You have to take a split to go to the left to hit the uh the rock jump, which is also sanctioned feature, or straight down the middle to hit the gap jump, and I I think it's great to have all three options, um and there's a couple other places in there, but yeah, it's funny.

There's some options in there for when that was very first built that we went when we went in with wafta like two years later.

So there's still some carcinite in there if you can find it.

We had some, you know, it was mostly a black trail, but we had some blue options, yeah.

No one used them.

Okay, they all got overgrown.

So that's something that we'll consider going in there too, because it is nice to have something that the trail itself is a filter.

If we I mean we're already getting a bunch of feedback about buffing out every trail and corner canyon.

If we if we do that on Draper Downhill, we're really gonna hear it.

It'll be minimal buffing, and you'll and you'll hear it from me too.

It'll be minimal buffing, but the thing we need to remember is the resource comes first.

The resource always comes first.

And I agree.

Um problematic from an erosion standpoint.

Uh and I get it.

But one of those is still really fun to ride.

But it's a great feature now.

I but I know it's been there, it's been there for years, and I looked at it on the other.

Oh, this one, this one's new.

Just appeared.

That's well, also one of the potential issues we have because if it's not part of the official trail, then we may face, you know, sure.

We've already I've already uh I was able to quash one lawsuit because of a social trail.

Um all I'm saying is I would love to maintain the flavor that it already is the best route we can and address the problems that need to be addressed, but not turn it into a sidewalk.

No, I'm saying we don't need another zoo rope button.

No, and there's nothing else like this one anywhere.

Exactly.

Well, I look at let's go vertigo.

But that's not all different.

Yeah.

So we're doing this with Rattle and Hum, and we're doing this with vertigo where you've got a separate line.

You know, like uh I wrote I wanted to talk about that in a minute before we leave, but the top part of rattling home is amazing, it's fun.

Because we have lots of rocks there, yeah.

It's cool.

But and so I I like that the kids who are just getting their you know, their their newbies, they're they're going down the middle or just doing the rollers, and the other kids can do that on the side.

And and you look at what we've done on Vertigo where we've given A B lines and they don't have to do that.

But in effect, it's like two trails, right?

So to Doug's point, having a couple different lines keeps that interesting, and it and it also keeps them from like, oh, we need another trail, you know, let's build another this, that because we've got multiple lines on that one trail.

So I think that we do need to try to keep the lines if we can where possible.

One thing I do not want to do in there is dumb it down, if you will, you know, I don't want to build it so that all of a sudden that you know there's really young kids or something going down on it when it's just not.

But in all the years we've done the mountain bike team when we were doing it, you were no ride leader was ever.

That was very, very clear.

The one place you cannot go is there.

Yeah, and that needs to say that.

We want to keep that flavor.

There are just some erosion issues with the colour.

But if you take machinery in there, you automatically we're gonna walk with dust and come up with the plan though, too.

Because there's that's not an easy place to take machinery.

And maybe maybe you go along on that wall.

I'd love to.

Because I went with Dustin when we did Zeropa, and it was it was good.

It was good for him to have feedback from somebody rides a lot.

And Zeropa turned out nice just because I went, probably.

He is a master trailer, he really really knows what you're doing.

We definitely want to keep the flavor in there.

There's just a few rows and issues, and then the landslide area.

You know, we had to go put a band-aid on it again this year, and any time we get a thunderstorm, you know, I got I get a little bit of PTSD over everything up there.

It probably will do better now because it's been ridden in honestly.

You know, it's compacted pretty much people are riding the land slide now.

Oh heck yeah.

That's the feature I'm talking about.

See, there I know there's another one down lower.

I I wrote it with Chris from Go ride, and part of it was just the design from the beginning.

There's a couple long switchbacks, and everybody just goes straight down to where the sewer line is.

Is it is it a G out?

Where you come up the other side?

I I've never been down sort of like that.

Oh no, the landslide is the problem.

It's loose.

We'll look at all maybe the run-out can be fixed.

It's when I talk about the landslide, what even Rick and I have talked about is just looking going back to the where the trail goes straight, cutting back into the hillside some more so that we don't lose the tread again.

So we can still utilize that corner.

Yeah, that's the job.

I think letting Doug walk on the reconciles, yeah.

When we get to it, we'll invite you.

All right.

But I love the line slides right here.

I did want to say something about Rattle and Hum that I think I I'm gonna make the suggestion, and you guys where we had tied in to Woods Hollow, where the entrance used to be, and we close that entrance off.

But I was up there, I've done it twice this week, and it is really fun to ride.

It's just below Eagle Crest, right?

And it's it's kind of what's on the right.

And letting us ride that like a downhill, which is fun, right?

But then we have to get off our bikes and hike down across all the you know, the gravel in those that's you know, people are sliding down a hill to get to because we don't want to go all the way to the bottom.

We just want to use it for that section and then get back on Eagle Crest, right?

We want a downhill specific part of Eagle Crest essentially.

You would use the why not just why not just make a little connector there.

And why do we take that connector?

If we reinstated that connector, you would have people, you would in effect have two-way traffic up there where two trails, one's the uphill and one's the downhill, and you separate the users.

So we talked about I know, but yeah, and here I can't remember why we opted to close it.

I don't Brad, do you remember why we you know where I'm talking about where the entrance to Rattling Hum used to be?

Okay, for some reason there was a discussion, and it was decided that that entrance would be shut down.

Yeah, it is.

I know, but I've ridden it a couple times the last week, and I'm like, why?

It's a really cool little downhill, and then you just jump on and go up and get back on Eagle Crest, and you'd have two-way traffic right there.

You'd be able to session the very old section.

Yeah, we why do why do we can we reopen that?

It I it doesn't make any sense to me why we would from a we we talked about it, and there was a reason.

I don't remember.

I think we guys were just afraid that people were gonna get on there, and then there would be a corner and that might have been it.

Yeah, the old track, uh, there's a switch boot, and then right as you go around this.

But but if you just made a little ramp, here's my proposal.

Above that switch back, you just take have somebody make a little offshoot that goes above it and then connect back.

People will not be riding if they are riding up, they'll be looking right at the people coming at them.

So we have like a little two-way connector.

We did discuss that.

And I think that's a good one.

Because I think that's a cool little section to ride.

So you could just session that topic.

You can section session that part, or the more important thing is when you're coming up that and people are coming down, you wouldn't have two-way traffic.

Okay, so here's your assignment.

Go back through and listen to all the old meeting out the business.

But anyway, we were here.

Your idea is someone would take the new portion of their own house.

And then if they want to continue east, yeah.

Yeah.

We had that as a plan.

If we can't think of the reason, it must not have been a good one.

Yeah.

No, I think it'll be cool.

And I really do think it'll be a two-way.

We've talked about the same thing.

Between Ghost Falls and where Rush Mid section gets, we've talked about doing two-way there for that same reason.

Like you have people going one way, and if you just separate them by 20 feet, like that section is, then you've got separated traffic.

And it's fun.

I mean, because we have it's a cool little section, and kids could session it.

And if I've got a choice of riding it to, I'm gonna write it once the jumps.

There's our field trip tomorrow, Brad.

Yeah.

But I think you'd have to do it.

My thought is instead of having it, if you went around the switchback and then made it come in, you will have people coming off that and trying to merge in.

And that might be dangerous.

And I think that was a discussion.

And maybe if you do it above that, if we just have it go above the switchback, so it might draw both.

And then we for sure can do it a lower one.

Yeah.

But why don't we ever do the up?

We should have at least a one.

So basically you're tying into woods hollow, technically.

Yeah, yeah, we tie back into just that last.

I think it's maybe a tenth of a mile of woods hallow.

And then you just ride up that little, there's a little gentle climb up back up to Eagle Crest, and then you can so next time you drag your bike through the weeds and trees there, flag it.

So if we did that, you'll have to do it with a machine.

Would you be able to get on?

Would we make it so that you could ride up woods hollow and then you could just jump on basically the bottom part?

Okay.

That's up that's up for discussion.

Yeah, I don't really care about that part.

I guess we'd have to look at the intersection.

Yeah.

That might not be a bad idea.

I would say if you're above that.

That's true.

No, I remember.

Yeah, I don't remember that.

If we make it a gentle climb up to that above that switchback, that last switchback, then people will be going very slow and they'll be looking right at the traffic coming at them.

So that's better than having them below the switchback where you've got fast traffic.

So I think you make it above the switchback.

There's already a lower entrance at the bottom of Woods Hollow.

This would just be another one.

So for people coming into woods, if they're riding Woods Hall, they want to jump on, they would they basically enter at the top of that big switch back.

Yes.

I guess that's the thing from there.

I'd be concerned about it.

Well, you just flattered a big entering.

You have to make a landing there, probably.

Anyway, I I think you ought to look at it because it's it's a cool little section.

So we've just been walking across it, but it's not the best place to walk across because it's really they did a good job messing it up so people wouldn't do that.

It's not good.

I don't know if it's kosher for non-committee member to speak out here.

No, yeah, but uh I uh I love the idea for that, and it makes me also think about the ability to maybe add something in the area of maple hollow downhill where it widens out so that people could climb back up and session some of the areas where it's wider there.

I do that occasionally right now because it's so sparsely biked that you can get away with it if you're talking about upper section only.

The no, no, I'm talking well, yeah.

I'm talking below ends.

Maple Hollow North, the downhill, yeah.

Yeah, I know what I mean.

Yeah, like the three-pack joke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you've got some people tops, and you got the I mean there's so you can go back up or up.

Yeah, so right now you have to go all the way out and up to do to do it officially the full thing.

And so I yeah, so it's so you don't want to ride up the the sewer line.

Anyway, there's enough space there that if we were to add a little uphill, yeah, you could session that area and spark.

I know there somewhere.

But that we used a lot of that.

I'll be honest with you.

I would like that just to get to the top, even if I'm not sessioning, that's a little bit if you're in a hurry, you could use that to get up there.

Go through the tunnel.

That's some people because there's there's a nice jump around the corner just before the three-pack.

Um a lot of people go that way, but some people still do.

That's one of the outlines I'm referring to.

That's another option.

Look at it in there.

But are you so you're saying before you get to the very bottom, just another another little uphill to do that?

Yeah.

Well, and now I feel guilty because I've haven't been riding the uh blue lines, obviously, and they're getting it over.

I'd like to hit every single option.

You're saying like it would leave ands and go up, and then they would just ride that top section back down to ands.

You're talking about that.

No, I'm talking about all down.

Oh, down towards the bottom.

Yeah, just so once you hit the jobs, basically right after all the way down below the original.

Just to get you back up to the top of the chip.

That actually is but not connecting all the way to the bottom, correct?

No, not right now.

Or all the way to the top.

I mean, yeah, there's just before all those trails converging.

I don't know how that shouldn't be that hard to do in there.

In fact, we've had discussions in here about this is all recorded, but we've had discussions in here about making another trail in there.

So because we have so much room and we're really not utilizing them.

I don't think so.

So maybe we could have a return.

Now, if we're gonna build a return though, maybe we do need to think for the future, just put it in a place that if we ever did want to build another trail in there, we don't restrict ourselves or have to do a flywork.

Like we ought to consider that at least.

That's something we could look at of it if in Dustin's in there just have put that in.

I mean so is it I did that we put back on itself or loop it up to Ann's Trail.

No, no, no, just loop it back on the cell.

Yeah.

Just like just a return for some of the features.

And that's probably safe though, because right now people in session, they're pushing their bikes or walking their bikes up the main line.

Yeah.

So if you have a return, you'll get them off of that.

So I think for safety it might be good.

I think there's room there.

Should be the room.

Yeah, if there's an old trail there, we might be able to use actually.

Or any access.

You know, a lot of times when they're building that stuff, there's something access road or gravel road or something.

Anyway.

Um I sent out an email a while back.

I could really use volunteers if anybody's around.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Remind me of the date.

Twenty?

I think.

Twenty, September 20th.

Yeah.

I'm I'm 820.

Not you, but yeah.

The event.

Okay, just let me know.

I'll put Geneva down and I'll probably put you.

You've done it before, so I'll I'll try to remember to next to close calls.

Okay.

Oops.

So I'm not getting as many of the mayor's youth council that weekend because there's a a race, uh mountain bike race, and they're teenagers.

I mean if you need more volunteers, then I can see if there's anybody else that wants to.

Maybe.

Thank you.

All right.

You wanna you're gonna do a presentation on the presentation?

Yeah, so you don't have a PowerPoint for it.

No.

Um Greg and I attended the trust conference this last spring.

And of course went to different classes.

There's a couple there's a class I wanted to bring up.

Um I went to the universal design adaptive mountain biking, which was really fun.

It's you know the different adaptive bikes and you really see the problems on it.

Problems that you think are problems on a regular bike are not problems, and other things which is not a big deal on a regular bike are problems.

Just like the little tiny soft shoulder is a problem, and that's where I dipped over.

But then there's some of these rocky sections that are like on a bike, I because it we have little bikes, whatever bikes too.

It was difficult on a regular bike, but on adaptive bike because you have three wheels.

Yeah.

Very stable.

It was fine, yeah.

So it was really eye-opening, and I did the year before, and that's why I did it again, just because it's yeah, I remember you talking about putting it before.

But um and a lot of it's minor changes to the existing trails, you know, and um you know, kind of trimming back some bushes and stuff.

And but it's a cr it's creating so many obstacles they can do.

Now, one thing I wanted to bring up at the end of the workshop, someone asked the because there's some there that got you know their handicapped and have to, you know, like adaptive bikes.

And they asked what their favorite trail system was.

What's a good example of adaptive trails?

Yeah.

I was I was thinking, because we have a really accessible, easily accessible shuttle, we have nice berms and nice trails for them.

But the gaps they probably can't ride levitate, I'm guessing, but the other trails they could probably ride really well.

Yeah.

And they and they also mentioned how the city staffs would be responsible.

They'll call Greg or Rick and say, hey, there's a little, you know, just a little tweak you need to do, and they'll go up there and do it.

There was a section on the the one section on Canyon Hall that always gets narrow, you know, we'll go we've cleaned that once or twice for them and because it just it gets too tight for 'em.

It's really cool.

But it's mostly because everything's machine built.

Yeah.

Well, and that you know, we have a recommendation.

Joey Klein talks about it.

He uses us an example, you know, to other communities and people.

So I think we do have that reputation, so it's good that you know one of the biggest obstacles you see is at the trail bed.

So we said a lot of trails out there are usable.

It's just you can't get on because some of these places could have been a motorcycle problem, they'll put a we could do a step over.

Oh kind of like the cattle guard things.

Yeah.

So we don't have any of those in our system.

So we've talked, we've seen those things.

We've talked about them.

But that I didn't think about how that would pack impact.

Yeah, yeah, but that's good.

We don't have maybe that's all right.

Um I talked a lot about it kind of earlier.

I went to one on you know, e-bikes and serons, and we've kind of you know beat it to that.

Other cities and stuff are having issues with serons and stuff, and there are a lot of discussions on you know what to do about e-bikes and other places have looked, and I just I don't know that we need to do it just yet, as far as um a lot of ideas were thrown around, nobody's done it yet, but you know, different signs that you know e-bikes yield to all, you know, like even on uphill, and I'm like, do we need to make it more confusing?

Um there is a group out there, and all their signs are like free to download, and it's more of like you know, slow and say hello, and just some real simple things about passing and stuff.

I've downloaded some of those.

I haven't started making the signs on on those just yet.

Um you know, the whole speed limit discussion was a was talked about, but it's like it comes down to enforcement.

You know, we could put 15 mile an hour signs up there, but it wouldn't work.

By the way, when I rode Lower Rush, somebody put a sign, I guess you guys put a little sign on a new feature or something like that.

That's a really really good idea.

We if you look because people get used to stuff, and I think there's where you're gonna open up yourself to a lawsuit if you have like all of a sudden there's a new jump or uh the jump is bigger for it's yeah, just just putting something that says new feature is is at least makes them think, oh I gotta check that out before I shoot.

We we had that last year and we were threatened because of that.

And so now at all the downhill signs you'll see new signs up there that say pre-ride ride on or something like that.

Yeah, that you know, trail conditions can change daily because we had several several things come in, threatening lawsuits and this and that, and of course, when I'm I'm an excellent rider.

I'm like, I didn't say it, but I'm like, well, then you should have known to look before he leap sort of thing.

Um so yeah, we've we put those signs up, you know, especially on nude stuff or something that's been tweaked a little bit.

I think it makes sense, it just protects us, and you know, I think it's worth it.

We're we're I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I mean it went all the way to the top, and because we went changed it, jump and somebody hit it thinking it was like it was a week or two ago, you know, trail conditions change daily.

So I mean it's the same thing if there was a flash flood, and then all of a sudden there's a big hole in the trail and somebody rides it and they crashed.

Yeah, well, you see it on the ski resorts, you know.

Yeah, conditions change all the time, so yeah.

Okay.

You guys have anything else?

Anyone have any I think it's already already reached out.

I know I have some neighbors asking about the master plan.

Yeah, so I replied I said it's on the master plan.

You know, the best bet is to get a bunch of the neighbors and express interest to council that hey, what can we do to get this thing moving forward?

Okay, um, Brad, I looked at you know, a trail alignment around there yesterday too, and what can be done, how big of a playground.

Sorry, uh up in the Hidden Canyon states, there's that open tension pot basin.

Yeah, um, and on the master plan there is a pocket park there.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Lots of neighbors who are like no we would love to have a park.

I've heard people say that too.

This is that basin that's in the edge homes.

Yeah, right above the town on the west side of the tunnel.

Yeah, the only question I have, and I couldn't remember from the plan was where is parking?

Is it just on the road?

Since it's a pocket park or anybody, you know, okay.

That's right.

Yeah, we we wouldn't do a parking lot.

Because the idea is people should walk there.

Perfect.

Yeah, we don't really want to encourage the road.

No, it's on the it's in our national.

Yeah, and then I wanted to ask about there's also one out on the road too.

But it's not in the next one.

Everywhere uh but in hidden meadow, I had neighbors that were asking about access to hidden meadow for the dogs with the helmet thing built where they had carved trail for a little while.

So there is now we were luckily given a um emergency and maintenance easement access.

That's now been cut in.

Okay.

So just look for it on lot 45.

I'll go I will look for it.

And because of the developer, the only sign I'm gonna put on that at this point says authorized vehicles only.

Okay.

Um I had a lot of I had a lot of people ask me, well, we were told if we want to use the trails, we need to go over to Peak View, and we can't put a gate in our backyard.

I said, I don't have an issue if you put a gate in your backyard, but don't go build your own trail connecting to our trails.

If you just walk on it, it's fine, but don't line it with pavers or anything like that.

I don't have an issue with that, because the developer can't really tell you what you can or cannot do what you own the walk.

Like that one that somebody built from their house to Fango.

Do you remember that one?

Sun Press Drive.

Yeah, we that kid did a good job on that trail.

Should we officially adjourn and then we can have more discussion about this?

So anybody want to make a motion?

Uh it would be um what's the day?

It's October.

I think I can do it as well.

That's not bird time.

But then one the agenda items I'd like to make sure that we can get you guys to give us your feedback on that trail at Maple Hollow, the return trail that Chad was talking about, and then the reroute of that little section there where Rattling Hum is, and then what was the other one?

There was another one.

Yeah, it was uh there was another one.

We talked about maybe have you guys look at Naple return.

Well, just uh whole people hollow down here.

You're gonna have to go.

Oh, no, it's oh the place for the walk the flywheel.

Yeah.

See if you can figure out a place to put that.

Maybe you can show us.

Yeah, that'll be Brad and I have been doing a lot of exploring on Thursdays, and you know, it was flagging, and now we've just been looking at obscure things and our window tomorrow got cut short from another meeting.

So the rattle and home should be doable to look at tomorrow.

Um the other thing about the flyover is just as a you know, a trail.

When we take kids up on like uh Kyle Wave and and tsunami up at Deer Valley, like everybody and adults too.

Everybody when they first go there, it's really cool.

Like the flyovers aren't just I think they uh we like them because they keep people from running into each other, but they're kind of a feature, you know, like people look forward to doing them.

So I think it'll be cool to have that.

Like I think it's just not just the traffic thing.

Like it get it adds something to the traffic.

I mean, we've talked about it too, and you know, we ought to I I still think we ought to do one where vertical and levitate cross.

Yes.

We need to do something there too.

Definitely on hands and people with levitate, the way that Ari, you know, you can almost do like some of the ones at par at parts uh Deer Valley, when you come off of them, they have step downs.

Like you can do something fun with it.

We we've had to we found a spot.

So if you're at the junction facing downhill and you just go back up your left, there's a big geo trench right there.

And so we had looked at just some minor reroutes in there, and we could make it work.

Yeah.

It's just time and running.

Yeah.

The work you guys did, by the way, on South Maple Hollow, the bridges and the repairs.

It's amazing.

Most of them were awesome.

That is great stuff.

And it hasn't rained since.

They're still gonna redo the bridge first.

Uh yeah, I think I'm waiting on an email for a quote.

Well, that piece that they can do a table.

We're we're getting that same darn, you know, on um above Ghost Falls as you go up, there's a little meadow there if you go this way, and then you go back around and it starts back in the single.

There's still that little spring there, it's still running.

And I don't know if maybe we ought to think about just doing a little bridge there.

Because it's it's been that like that since it was built.

Every time we fix it, we we put pipes in it, and we just put several pipes in there to be done with.

It's not gonna have to be anything long.

That's the downside of the way it is now.

Well, it's just got it right now, it's got like it gets big chunk and a hole, and then it cools water there.

And then everybody's moving left.

Yeah, although they're making a new trail.

And the trails widen because of it.

So it's not just that your feet get a little wet.

No, no, no.

Well, it's in fact, I think.

It can get kind of muddy right there.

Yeah.

Right now it's not bad because there's not much water.

We have that spot, and then there, I don't ride it very often, but there's a spot above Mike Weir where there's a little and we almost need a boardwalk there.

It's really bad.

Like it sits at the bad spot.

Red Rock?

It's about before you get to Red Rock, I think.

Just for that stream and it's on the BST.

Oh, yeah, we call we call that the tri bridges area because if you look really close and think like the red cut yard.

There's uh there's a bog bridge, there's a pipe, yeah, there's another bridge because that screen canyon is a big thing.

And then we've been dealing with once we paved Potato Hill, it changed the whole dynamic of it because it sends so much more stuff down there.

Yeah.

Well it's a few ones.

Where the fire was.

Uh just above Mike Weir.

Yeah, closer to there.

Then there was a fire right on Mike Weir.

Is that the one you're talking about?

Oh the car fire that spread into the bushes?

Yeah, like a firefighter like next meeting is October 1st.

Motion to adjourn.

Seconded.

Yeah, we're there.

So let's turn the corner off.

And um, one other thing too that Rick and I had planned, but we never got to it this year.

There's a section of the BST if you're going from County Hollow.