All right, good evening.

Welcome to our Draper City Planning Commission meeting.

Thanks for visiting tonight.

Today's date is November 20th.

I'm Andrew Adams.

We've got our commissioners up here.

We'd like to thank them for volunteering their time.

Also, thank you to the staff for spending all the time with the applicants, uh noticing, uh, you know, working with the uh working on the reports, and then finally staying late on these nights.

So we appreciate you.

And then all our neighbors, we welcome you and thanks for uh coming to find out what's going on in your town.

So let's go ahead and get some things uh started off this agenda.

First, we want to just notice that the agenda will go as proposed with one change.

I believe it's item one C is in Charlie, it's the high point office building site.

Plan deviation request.

That one's been postponed.

So if you're here for that, you can take the night off or stay and watch the rest.

But one C will be removed from the agenda for tonight.

Watch for that one.

So let's go ahead and get things started.

Uh we've got all public hearings tonight.

So the first one is the elite aesthetics conditional use permit request is on the request of Dustin Haas, representing Elite Aesthetics and Draper Land Company number two, a conditional use permit to approve the trade vocational school use in the CO2 zone for this location at approximately 66 East Wadsworth Park Drive.

It's known as application 2025-0253-USE.

And Paul Gilman's our staff contact.

So Paul, go ahead and take it away.

Time's yours.

Thank you, Andrew.

Um, so we will go ahead and so our vicinities were located just south of Bangater Highway, just east of I-15 and around that curve where Minuteman starts.

So we'll go in for a closer view.

You can see the aerial there.

That is the parcel in question.

Um, I would like to point out the parcel directly to the south, is uh has been recently connected with an easement specifically for crock cross-access parking.

Um so that increases the parking for this site.

The uh the land use is community and neighborhood commercial.

So that is a congruent use for the requested conditional use.

Uh the zone is CO2, as was stated.

My apologies for this mouse.

Overview of the request.

So they're requesting a conditional use be approved to allow for a master aesthetics program.

The use will be classified as a trade vocational school.

Uh the business hours that are intended are Monday through Saturday, 8 to 5.

The peak on-site personnel is anticipated to be 26 individuals, and that includes students, staff, and clients.

Um clients are appointment-based, and class schedules for the students rotate to limit the uh number of personnel that will be on site.

Um and the parking rate for the building, including that uh cross asset cross-access easement site is 5.44 spaces per 1,000 square feet.

We've got a couple of our site photos here.

So here we can see that's 66 East Wadsworth Park Drive.

If you have any questions or concerns, uh, I can definitely answer them.

We also have um Troy Martin, the elite aesthetics owner, and Dustin Haas, the applicant here.

If you'd like to direct questions to them.

Great, thank you.

Any questions for staff?

Paul, I have a question.

I'm not quite clear if the um proposed use has enough parking.

It does, right?

I mean, because they have the the lot across the street as well.

Yeah, so if you go through, we'll go back to that aerial view.

All right.

Your mouse lets you.

Yeah, it's a struggle.

I picked the good one.

Okay.

So there was a an easement recorded.

That land just south used to be owned by UDOT, and then when the opportunity arose, um, the uh property owners bought that and recorded an easement recently so that they have the parking per Draper City Municipal Code um 925.

So that's the parking section.

Um the required parking uh for a trader vocational school use is one space per 1.25 students.

Um so the number that was provided was the total rate.

Um the space is 5,810 square feet.

So with the building, the whole site being parked at 5.44 spaces per thousand square feet, means that they're allotted just over 31 spaces.

So even taking into account everyone, not just students, which is what's based off of.

They have more than enough parking.

Yeah, thank you.

I appreciate you clearing that up.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

All right, is the applicant here?

You want to come on down, add anything to that presentation?

You're welcome to just state your name and do you mean to add anything?

No, it's if it's good if it's good for you.

Uh we may have some questions for you.

Any questions for the applicant on this one?

Okay.

Well, we just figured you make the trip down here, we give you your time to shine.

So I appreciate your time.

Got it.

All right, commissioners.

Yep, pretty straightforward.

What are your thoughts on this?

Is this not a hearing?

It's not a hearing, is it?

There's no public hearing.

Oh, yeah, sorry, you're you're right, Lisa.

Yeah, this is a public hearing, so correct.

Yeah.

Let's let's kick this off the right way.

So a public hearing.

Uh we're gonna be uh we're gonna be doing this all night tonight, so get ready.

So there's a little three minute timer up there.

Uh you're welcome to anyone that would like to address this agenda item is welcome to come up and do so.

Uh we just ask that you don't go over, you don't need to take the full time though.

So regarding this agenda item, is there anyone that would like to address it?

Okay, we don't have anyone, so we'll go ahead and now close the public hearing portion.

All right, commissioners.

Now what do you think?

Um I'm comfortable with this.

How about any of you want to make any comments or discuss it?

I didn't hear anything about any conditions that would need to be mitigated.

So I don't have any concerns.

Right.

Okay.

All right, well, let's make a motion then.

I'll I'll make a motion.

Go ahead, Lisa.

I move that we approve the elite aesthetics conditional use permit as a quested by Dustin Haas representing elite aesthetics application 2025-0253-USE based on the findings for approval and subject to the conditions lifted listed in the staff report dated November 6th 2025.

Um there's no need to mitigate any effects, and I um there's plenty of parking, so I'm I'm fully satisfied.

Great.

Thanks, Lisa, for that motion.

Who will second it?

I'll second that.

Thanks, Kendra.

All right, let's go ahead and put it to a vote.

Then Lisa, how do you vote?

Yes.

Kendra?

Yes.

Christine?

Yes.

And Mary.

Yes.

All right.

Congrats on that.

Thanks for coming in.

All right, our next agenda item tonight, also public hearing.

Watch the three minute timer.

So Sunshine Preschool Home Occupation Conditional Use Permit Amendment Request.

This is on the request of Jennifer O'Neill representing Sunshine Preschool, an amendment to a conditional use permit for operation of a limited preschool on approximately 1.61 acres.

This is all located at 11501 south, 700 west.

It's known as application 2025-0239-USE and Nick Whitaker's our staff contact.

So the time's yours, Nick.

Thank you.

So yes, this is the Sunshine Preschool Home Occupation Conditional Use Permit Amendment.

Here is a vicinity map of the property.

It's right here in the center at the red.

Yes, it does.

Okay.

Sorry about that.

Uh so here's the aerial map.

Uh, here's the property.

Um land use map, uh just residential low medium density.

Zoning map is RA1.

So skip ahead real quick.

So in 2017, a home occupation conditional use permit uh to operate a limited preschool was approved by the Draper City Planning Commission.

The applicant is requesting to increase the number of students per session to 16.

And and um the applicant would also like to add an employee.

Uh it used to be that um the definition would only allow the definition of limited preschool would only allow up to 10 students per session.

But in September 20 uh 20 uh, excuse me, in September 2025, a text amendment was made to the definition of limited preschool uh found in DN uh DCMC 9-3-040 to increase the number of allowable pre-elementary students per session up to 16.

Um, and so that new definition reads a home occupation facility where as a principal function, educational instruction is provided during not more than two sessions per day for up to 16 pre-elementary school aged uh children ages three to six per uh session during customary school hours.

So the applicant would like to amend their um their existing uh home occupation uh conditional use permit to allow for up to 16 students per session based on the new definition of limited preschool.

Um and then I want to show the site plan here.

Um the prop the way that the property is set back really works to their advantage for drop off time and pickup time.

As you can see, there's um uh vehicles pull in, they drop off, they can queue up without getting onto the road without queuing up on the road, and then it loops around and they can go out.

Um then the floor plan uh it's just a single room within the home where uh the the uh preschool sessions are taught.

There's two sessions per day.

So the impact analysis and mitigation for adding more students and a uh an employee is that the additional students being dropped off uh traffic will traffic generated from additional students being picked up and dropped off, and employee vehicles parking and related traffic.

Proposed mitigation is that no more than 16 students per class, per class session, there's two sessions per day.

All student drop-off and pickup will take place on the property and continue to the same pickup and drop-off plan that was originally approved.

Um an off-street parking stall is provided for the um additional employee, and I'll show you where that is here.

There's uh an area here where the uh employee can park their vehicle that will still allow for vehicles to pull through and queue up and pick up and drop off their children.

Uh here's an exterior photo of the property.

Again, it's the house is set pretty far back there, and that's uh my presentation.

Thank you, Nick.

I have a question, Nick.

Where in the home is the preschool being held?

I couldn't tell from um the report or your pictures.

I mean this, yeah, this picture, but where is this in the building?

I believe it's on the and the applicant is here tonight, so they may be able to give a better answer on that, but I believe it's in the uh the main floor of the property.

Um but it's just a single room that was part of the original application.

Yeah, yeah.

If you want to just leave this this little floor plan up, and then we'll have the applicant maybe speak to them.

Zether, yeah.

Great.

Any other questions for Nick?

Okay, thank you, Nick.

All right, is the applicant here?

Hi, come on down.

It's like prices are right with no prizes.

And if you just state your name.

My name is Jennifer O'Neill.

Hi, Jennifer.

Hi, all right.

Uh do you want to elaborate on that question that was asked?

Um, it is in the basement.

Um, the way the property is located, it has a walk-in basement on the um south side.

So it has a separate entrance for the preschool.

Perfect.

Anything else you want to add to the presentation as well?

Anything I wanted to thank Nick for putting this together in the city um for um all the work they did to change the regulations and allow me an opportunity to come and present my preschool and ask if I could please participate in the new program.

And I did bring signatures.

I went around and top tell the neighbors that have property that touches mine, or even a couple out, and I have 14 um signatures and addresses from neighbors if you would like to have that um expressing their support for the change.

Thank you.

Yeah, if you'd like, we can take a copy of that, maybe for the just put it in our file.

Thank you.

I have a I just have a question for Jennifer when she's ready.

That's okay.

I have another question.

Thank you.

Um with licensing for having a preschool, is is for this number of students.

Is that why you have the new employee?

Because so that you have two adults.

What are the what is the numbers?

Do you remember?

For the adult, yeah, the ratio.

Um, I actually looked it up um before I came.

It's it can be really confusing with the state guidelines because they have a straight out ratio, but then they have another um another page in their rec their um their qualifications.

It's R 381-40-10 um capacity and ratio, and it has um four different tables based on different ages.

So if you have two-year-olds, it's different.

And so I have a an age quite an age range, and that's where it changes, and it'll go up to um no more than 17 uh maximum total of children in the room, 18, which is not a problem here, and then it varies, it'll have to depend on the age of the kids between three to yeah, three and five, and then six as they um have their birthday before they leave preschool.

That makes sense.

I understand that's I'm glad you're watching that.

Yep.

Perfect.

All right, any other questions for the applicant?

No, okay, great.

We'll invite you back up after the public comment if we need you.

If not, we'll just put it to a vote.

Okay.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Appreciate you coming in.

Thank you.

All right, this is a public hearing.

We'll go ahead and open this up to public comment.

Is there anyone that would like to take their three minutes and address this agenda item?

Come on down, and have you just always remember to state your name.

My name is Lane Hughes.

I live directly across the street from the property in question.

If this is a how this impacts the neighborhood, it's negligible.

She has such a long driveway that there is never an issue with cars on the road.

Pick up and drop off.

And I think she's been real asset to the community.

So I would wholeheartedly endorse this.

Great.

Thank you for that.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Anyone else?

All right, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.

Commissioners, have you driven by this place?

I mean, this is a heck of a campus for a preschool.

If it's if not here, where right?

This is a great setup for that.

So what are your thoughts?

I'm happy to make a motion.

Go ahead, Mary.

I move that we approve the amendment to the home occupation conditional use permit as requested by Jennifer O'Neill representing Sunshine Preschool.

Application 2025-0239-USE based on the findings based on the following findings for approval and subject to the conditions listed in the staff report dated November 7th, 2025.

Thank you, Mary.

Who will second that?

I'll second that.

Thanks again, Kendra.

Let's go ahead and put that one to a vote.

So Mary, how do you vote?

Yes.

Kendra?

Yes.

Christine?

Yes.

And Lisa.

Yes.

Perfect.

Well, congrats on that.

Thanks for coming in.

We appreciate you teaching all these old draperites.

How to how to get started.

Thank you.

So let's go on now to we've skipped one C as mentioned before, so that will be postponed.

Uh, if you're walking in late, that one is not on the agenda tonight.

It would be postponed to be determined.

Uh now we're on to our Bangar Crossroads land use map and zoning map amendment request.

It's on the request of Dwayne Erasmuson representing Tom Lloyd and Lloyd's TLC Limited, an amendment to the land use map to the to the regional commercial designation, and a zoning map amendment to the CR regional commercial zone for approximately 17.88 acres.

This is located on approximately 13782 south and 300 east.

It's known as application 2025-0064-MA and 2025 0065-MA.

So Todd Draper's our contact.

So go ahead, Todd.

It's all yours.

All right, thank you.

As you mentioned, this is the Bangor Crossroads.

It's uh application for both a land use map and a zoning map amendment.

Uh this is the vicinity, uh kind of between Bangater Highway, 150 east, third east, and 138 south.

And so you can see the properties that are involved in this application outlined in red there.

Uh here's kind of the aerial map.

The properties are vacant at this time.

And then the current land use map, uh, a couple of different designations.

Uh, some of it is uh medium density residential, some is uh low slash medium density residential, and a small uh portion there is in uh community commercial current zoning map, uh has all of those properties as RA1, the residential agricultural uh zone, uh roughly one acre minimum lot size, and they are looking to amend that to uh both the uh CR zone and then the regional commercial land use.

So this is the conceptual site plan that they included in their uh their packet of uh information from the applicant, and as you can see, uh it also involves the next property that's up on the agenda tonight, also.

Uh but basically this is a conceptual layout uh of what they're looking to do in kind of a retail setting.

Again, the regional commercial land use designation has oops, has the characteristics here, uh wide range of commercial, uh, more entertainment related uses, uh destination, uh, and then uh kind of that regional feel to it.

These would be big box centers, upskill office buildings, or other master plan commercial centers, and they would be in locations with excellent transportation access to major highways, which this property would have.

Again, this is just uh also in your staff port as well, just the purposes of the CR zone, uh accommodation of destination-oriented business, retail, commercial, entertainment related uses maybe established and maintained and protect uh to serve both residents and non-residents of the city.

Typical uses would include the large-scale master plan commercial centers with outlying commercial pads, big box stores and offices.

I've got a list of some of the permitted uses that would be allowed in the CR zone.

This is not an all-inclusive list.

Um whether that be a bank or a bar, uh convenience store, uh gas or fuel storage and cells, grooming service, veterinary, the general retail, which looks to be more of what they're uh going towards, uh restaurant as well, personal care, office, medical or hotel, and then just a list of some of the conditional uses that uh that would bring as well, whether that's higher education, trader vocational schools, uh, auto and truck uh equipment storage, car washes, vehicle repair limited.

Uh, it would not allow a general uh vehicle repair in this zone.

And just a couple of the site photos, if you're not fully aware of it, uh this is kind of looking uh to the north uh across the properties from 138 south, and then from kind of the Bangater Highway section looking uh east, northeast, and then from third west looking in uh towards Bangor on the opposite side there towards the west.

And that is most of my presentation there.

Um you did get the public comments that I've passed out there uh that came in.

Uh they were specific here to the Bangater crossing application, and I'm available for any questions you might have.

I have a question, surprise.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Um Todd, we saw this property before, and um I think one of the uses they had suggested they might do is a hotel.

Um, and I'm a little concerned how close we are to residential to have multi-story buildings.

So it does look like whether they develop it or someone else comes in and develops it, or even in the future development, a multi-story building could be built here according to the uses.

Yeah, I'd have to go back and look at that specifically on the zone.

Um that was one of my questions too, Lisa.

Is just what is the height limitation or height restriction in the CR zone general habit here?

Yeah, I'm looking it up right now.

Perfect.

Um I think there was concern about looking into like neighborhood yards or even into windows of homes.

Yeah, so CR zone is uh 45 foot height limit.

So for a commercial building, you're gonna get a three-story building, absolute max.

Max.

And residential RA1 residential is 35 feet, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, so 35 to 45 feet, just so we can close that gap, right?

That's what we're talking about with height.

Yeah.

So they couldn't do a five-story like what we see over the near Wadsworth and Chick-fil-A, they couldn't do a hotel of that size, it'd be more like a it'd be three stories max.

Okay.

And if you notice where we're going with this, so uh this is also for the public.

What we're doing tonight is a zoning uh request change, not a site plan approval.

So really when we flash up that site plan, that could or could not be what's going in there.

So we're always looking at well, what's the uh I don't know if you want to call it the worst case scenario?

What's the you know what's the whenever we're looking at a at a zone change, uh especially when it uh revolves around retail or commercial, uh, you're looking at well, what's the worst?

What's the if this does get changed?

Um a quick question on the history.

Last time is that the same zone they were pushing for for I think it was a medical office they were trying to put in there.

No, they were um, and it was in 2020.

That the last application was so they were requesting to create a CSD, a commercial special district.

That's right.

Um, and it was primarily office uses.

Okay.

Yeah, it's all coming back to me now.

That was all over Zoom, right?

It was.

I remember not seeing any of you.

I remember it vividly.

So okay, so that's that's what we're doing here tonight as we're looking at that's where we're asking these questions.

So, regardless of what was flashed up there, uh, it's not site plan approval denied.

It's basically saying if we change the zone, what's uh what could happen uh with that allowed zone?

Okay, any other questions for staff.

Do we anticipate a development agreement?

I only ask because I really I don't know that might be something to ask the applicant.

They are here tonight.

Um we'll do as as it stands right now.

That's not part of this.

Okay.

Perfect.

Thank you.

All right.

Well, let's do just that.

Let's ask the applicant applicant to come up.

Is the applicant here?

Come on down.

And just as before, if you'll state your name.

My name is Dwayne Rasmussen.

My address is 1224 West Samuel Holt Drive in South Jordan.

I'm here on behalf of Tom Lloyd, who owns the property.

The company I work with uh is Castlewood Development.

We're helping Tom with some of the construction items that might be associated with this property.

I appreciate the history, Mr.

Chairman, and uh the comments that Todd has made.

As you reflected, there has been a lot of history on this property, some of which you're not even aware of.

Tom's owned this property for probably the last 15 or 18 years, and there have been several proposals on it over the time.

Um of those proposals, as you mentioned, was the office proposal proposed by Gardner Development about 2020.

They had three and four-story office buildings proposed in here.

I think we're all glad that didn't happen, just given the the condition of the office market right now, particularly gardeners and happy about that.

Um then till now, we have engaged in conversations with several major tenants who might want to locate on this property.

Most of them are retail-oriented tenants.

Uh, and we have gone down various roads of negotiating with them.

We do not currently have a deal with anybody, and I'll get into that here in just a minute, but uh that led us to this rezoning application because nobody can go here until the pro the property is appropriately zoned.

The answer to the development agreement question is yes, we are anticipating entering into a development agreement negotiated between ourselves and the staff and the city council to regulate what goes on this property.

We don't anticipate any three-story buildings on this building right now that could be built into the development agreement.

The site plan you saw was probably 10 or 15 iterations ago.

So it really, as you mentioned, Mr.

Chairman, doesn't have a lot of relevance today.

What we're proposing here is a kind of a bookend to the property that's across the street to create a retail district.

And uh we think that that will be a cohesive shopping development district anchored by a major anchor tenant that will provide jobs and generate considerable tax revenue, both property tax and sales tax, which I think goes to some of the comments in the general plan.

Uh, there's been a lot of discussion online today, and I've talked with several people and read some of the comments about a particular tenant.

We cannot announce that tenant because we don't have a deal with them today.

If they come, they will be the ones that will drive the site plan if you decide to recommend rezoning this property to the city council.

So there is not a site plan that was conceptual only.

One of the things that uh we understood as we looked at it is no major tenant nor any city staff would approve a major retail development here without some major modifications to the traffic conditions that exist.

The traffic conditions that exist today are not ideal by any means if you drive that very often.

So we, in conjunction with the staff, commissioned a traffic impact study.

The staff has had a copy of that for a couple of years, and I think it was done in 2022 and updated uh most recently, recommending certain improvements, which I'll get into here in a minute for this area that will benefit it today as well as into the future.

So it took into account the problems that exist today and future development of this site for something similar to what we described here in the site plan.

Um I'll re I'll review those recommendations of the traffic study here in a minute.

Uh those we have we have uh engaged an engineer, those improvements have been designed, and they are ready to go to bid.

Both the city and the state have looked at those plans and approved those plans.

And in the interim, Mr.

Lloyd, along with some associates, went to the legislature and secured 3.45 million dollars in funding to be able to bring that to this site in order to make it viable for the city of Draper.

And if this gets approved and those improvements, those improvements are going to go forward regardless of what gets approved on this site because they're needed today.

And I think we're ready to start those improvements in the spring, regardless of what's approved on this site, because I think it will benefit the neighborhood, and it will provide for future development.

Um with regard to the to um well, I I think that basically with with what Todd has said and the questions you have asked sums up our application.

We think we're presenting a very cohesive development.

Let me read from the traffic study before I conclude as to the uh improvements that they have recommended and have been designed and are ready to go to uh go to bat go to construction this spring.

Bangator Parkway will have a a install a third northbound lane from 138th to the freeway.

150 east and Bangater Parkway.

We will add a permissive protected left turn phasing on the northeast and southwest bound approaches, construct southeast bound dual left turn lanes with accompanying receiving lane and add northwest bound right turn pocket off of 138 south and bangator parkway.

It's recommended that they strike for a dual westbound left turn lane uh heading to head south, and then there will be a dedicated right hand turn lane off of 138th onto Bangor that will be protected so that people can make that free running right now and not back up nearly to 30s as they do.

And then the one final phase of that is a dedicated right turn lane off of 30s onto 38 on to 138 south.

So I think that sums up uh sort of the the the basics of our application.

I don't think that you need a lot of additional detail.

If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them.

If uh questions are raised by uh my friends out here in the audience, I'll be happy to answer those when they're through.

Yeah, just as before, after their public comments, we'll invite you back up, obviously.

So get your notepad out, and I'll have mine and we'll see what we can put together.

I have I have a question though.

So do I, yeah, I have questions.

Can we go through the traffic study again?

But this time pointing to each of the locations that are being sure.

I I think it would benefit the audience because many of these people I know live in this area.

Okay, Todd's gonna have a pointer then.

Let me start on Bangaro Highway.

Yes.

Bangout or highway from 138 to uh the freeway.

There is uh a new dedicated lane all the way through 150 east and up to the freeway.

Okay.

The portion from 150 east of the freeway is being designed by UDOT.

That's a U dot road that's not in our purview, but they have told the city and us that they will do that in conjunction with this project.

Number one.

Number two, at 150 east, there'll be dedicated lanes to turn left coming off of 150 east onto Bangalore Highway, and there'll be a right hand turn lane dedicated to go free right onto uh Bangtur Highway and to the freeway.

And and that signal will be upgraded.

There will also be a new traffic signal installed midway between that signal and 138th to allow traffic to turn left into the site, but not left out.

So there'll be a new traffic signal there as well.

That'll be a three-quarter movement again, left in.

Right about where the right about where the cursor is now.

Um then coming down 138, that also gets widened.

And at the corner of 138th and Bangator Highway, there will be a free right available to turn onto Bangator Highway without stopping and backing up uh along 30 east.

Does that help you?

That does.

And what did you say about 300?

Was there something about it?

300 east.

I'm sorry, I forgot that.

Thank you very much.

There is also a uh a right turn lane recommended off of 30s onto 138, a right and through so that people don't stack up there trying to turn left or go straight.

Excuse me, turn left or turn right.

There's more of a flow of rights to get to the highway then correct.

Okay.

But the only lot the only light that's going to be added is the one on Bangator.

Yeah, right there.

And it's only to turn left into the lot.

Turn left into the lot, and you can turn right in, right out.

That that is really similar to what they have over there in the um what used to be the gravel pit area and sandy.

Oh, yeah, where they have the lows and all that.

They have that one extra little light there, and it's just for that left turn traffic, and everybody else just kind of breezes through.

So if you're coming from the freeway.

That's right.

That's what that kind of reminds me of.

And full traffic uh to the full traffic study is available.

The staff has that, and I'm sure they can share it with you and the neighbors as well.

Yeah, thanks for slowing that down, Lisa.

Thanks.

That was good.

Okay, thank you very much.

Yeah.

So more of a concern, I guess, and a question, and maybe you'll have a response.

When we get applications in areas like this, as a body, we like to have development agreements because they limit, they can limit what the developer can do.

When we pass a zone, anything the applicant brings forward after that that's compliant with the zone, is we don't have any discretion to approve or not approve or to force any modifications.

And this is a really unique area with all of the housing that really abuts this property.

And I don't believe our city codes as far as buffers, as far as setbacks, um, access, things like that, height, maybe even, I don't know, but possibly height will mitigate appropriately for the people who live in homes that will be directly adjacent to this property.

So I can tell you right now, I have a lot of hesitation about any approving any zone here without a development agreement.

And and we're not the final body.

Hey guys, okay, we're not gonna we're not gonna have any clapping or we'll just wrap it up, please.

I just that it gives it makes our job a lot harder here because we are essentially saying we're okay with whatever you do.

I understand that, and I and I concur with you.

We are willing to enter into a development agreement, but it's early for that to happen.

And I've committed to the staff and we'll commit to the neighbors that before we start any construction here, there will be a development agreement as well as the major tenants that we're talking to know that development agreement will have to be in place.

I think the the question that just came to my mind right there is in your negotiation, a development agreement takes time and a lot of effort and gets very specific.

You don't have a tenant right now.

Are you even able to negotiate with the tenant if you don't have uh a zone change?

We we are we can't.

I mean, we're far enough down the road with the tenant without being able to announce them that we can do that, and I think we can have them involved very quickly if that's the way you want to go.

Well, you've just heard the temperature.

Uh again, uh Mary, it's a good point, right?

Because if you just say yes to this, they could just you know, 180 and and throw a hotel in or something like that.

Well, and not only that I get it.

We have no reason not to trust you, but anything you say at that point.

Oh, we have more reason not to trust me.

I'm a developer.

I understand.

I'm trying to give you, you know, some latitude.

But we can't go off uh promise made at the podium.

Sure.

And and this is a big deal, and it will have a big impact.

And I am glad to see that there's been a lot of work done on the back end to help mitigate the traffic, and I you know, kudos for getting the state to throw money in for that, but that's not the only issue.

It's a big issue, but it's not the only thing.

What you say, commissioner is not lost on us either.

We we agree with that, and we understand that you can't take a promise at the podium, but you could make the the zoning conditional on being able to uh negotiate a development agreement that's appropriate.

I I do have a question, but maybe maybe staff might be the better to answer this.

What is the order we usually get though with applications?

Isn't it isn't it we do change zoning and we change um land use and then we get a development agreement and then we approve a site plan, or is it before the zoning and the yep land use?

So typically we would start with the land land use map change followed by a zoning map change, and then at that point it would be the site plan that could come in with a development agreement at that point uh prior to the site plan, but we've also had development agreements come in with the zone and land use map change.

Uh typically those development agreements are those that tend to get amended multiple times because they're very basic.

Uh they don't have a lot of uh substance to them like one that would come in with a site plan.

Because we don't we don't need to approve a site plan if we don't agree with it or if we don't think it fits the the nature of the the land use, but um I don't think I've seen I don't recall seeing a development agreement before we change the zone.

We've had them come in simultaneously, just the simultaneously like he's described with this with these big projects, I feel like it's pretty common, although I couldn't throw one off the top of my head, but because we've had this conversation a lot where we say, you know, we're nervous about what could go based on the permissible uses in the zone, and we want the applicant to be held to what they come in and say they're building from the podium.

So it definitely has been done, and I think it's really important in this case.

I mean, if you look at the homes, some of those homes are probably at the minimum setback for their residential um setbacks, which is which is fine, but maybe not so fine if you have a grocery store behind you.

So I I think we need to be sensitive to those buildings that already exist and the residents that already live there.

We also have a neighborhood, um, so just on 300 east, just north of the the cutback of this property, there's another development being built there, more homes being built.

So you can't see them on the map, you can see the lots.

So we have a significant number of really new homes that will be directly impacted.

And I saw somebody making yard improvements and you know, exterior improvements to the house there a couple weekends ago.

So I I think you know, people are sticking around, and we need to do right by them.

And I don't I don't think a zone change without some parameters is doing right by them.

But do you feel that uh that a simultaneous uh development agreement would be the solution to that?

Yes.

Okay, then let me let me ask this.

Have has a developer ever pulled the development agreement after submitting it simultaneously with the zone change and the line to use map amendment.

Have they just pulled it?

I can think of one instance where they pulled it because we changed our zoning to allow for not they didn't need the it was a residential build over there in by Cranberry Lane.

Okay.

Um so like Todd said, it's more we see amendments, so they'll come in with the development agreement with the rezone, and then as they start actually doing the engineering for the site, um the design, they're then coming back in for amendments.

So they're so basic that it's just a gesture or token saying we're open to to land to a development agreement.

So and is that something they can do in between uh recommendation to the city council, whether it's positive or negative, is that something they can uh add to their application?

Their basic I'm I'm just trying to see if there's way a way for that to actually happen.

Yeah, uh a development agreement that changes code standards would have to come to planning commission for a recommendation.

Come here first.

All right, well, let's I I don't disagree with you.

I I want a development agreement for this land too, which is why I was talking asked about you know height and everything.

Just I'm just thinking wondering if we're we're trying to negotiate between someone that owns the land and people around it, and so does it have to come?

When does it have to come?

You know, that's the same.

Well, is there's no guarantee it will come?

Well, and I guess that's a question.

If zone change goes through, it doesn't have to be but we don't have to approve it if a zone change goes through.

I mean, we don't have to approve a site plan.

We can ask that they come back with a development agreement.

Oh, we would absolutely have to approve a zone plan that was compliant with or a site plan that was compliant with the zone.

Yes.

We can't we have no latitude to reject that, and that's my issue.

Is there any particular reason why it sounds like from what you said that you are fairly far down the line with a potential tenant?

Is there any reason why we're bringing you're bringing this now as opposed to waiting until you're at a point where you can have a development agreement presented along with the zone request for the zone change?

I I think that the land use and the zone are two different things.

There's two two two deals in front of you tonight.

One is the land use and the other one is the zone.

I I think you could change the land use, and that would give us some comfort, but the zone is gonna is what's gonna give the tenant comfort uh that they can in fact build here.

Now I know what's going on in your mind and minds of my neighbors out there, and that is they're gonna do whatever the heck they want to do.

Um we could get to the basics of a development agreement fairly quickly.

Uh setbacks, fencing, landscaping, lighting, those kinds of things which most generally impact these neighbors.

I know they have other issues with this, but those kinds of things I think could be um negotiated out with the staff right now and presented to you uh height, for example.

Uh those kinds of things could be uh I think negotiated and dealt with in fairly short order, but I I would like this to go to the city council so that they know that this is coming forward, and they want to I think they want to deal with it in the same way.

I've had a couple of offline conversations with a couple of the the uh city councilmen, and they have those same issues in mind that you do.

So we're not we're not trying to run rough shot over everybody here.

That's the reason we're doing the road work now while we prepare the site and get the site plan ready to go.

I think we can appreciate that.

I just think the concern is is given the role that we're in.

Sure, our hands are tied if we approve the the land use and the zoning uh amendment that's before us without some of those conditions more clearly laid out.

So there's just a lot of concerns for us that in moving forward without more of those details, we're just put in a situation where we have less control because once that zoning amendment is granted, then our discretion is curtailed because whatever is allowed under that zoning is permissible.

So we're right now with the zone having not been passed, we have a little bit more flexibility to ensure we're trying to find a more balanced approach between you as the developer, any potential tenants you're talking to, as well as the community at large, which is a very important role for all of us here.

Sure.

I I I understand what you're trying to say, and I I'm not sure that you can do this, but if you were to pass this forward to the city council with a recommendation and not go forward without a development agreement before you see it, that would that would give everybody a certain amount of comfort that we are moving forward.

Um and again, I'm not trying to end run you here.

I'm just trying to move the thing forward, if you know what I mean.

Well, the good news for you is that it moves forward regardless of our recommendations.

It does.

It does and I understand that, but I want you to know that.

We want to cooperate in every way that we possibly can.

So good working relationship with the staff.

So go ahead.

Sure.

So Chair Adams.

Yeah, sorry.

Um, our city manager who is here would also like to chime in if he could.

Perfect.

I know where we're listening to our legal counsel tonight.

I think he'd like to add something.

Yeah, let's let's do that.

Hold on one second, Mike.

So what keeps running through my mind is that this right now is zoned what RA1?

Those are one acre, one acre, beautiful one acre McMansions, right?

Those are that's that's what that's what this is zoned for right now.

So if we were going to change this to retail commercial, is that like is that bad?

Do we really think that we're gonna have people building one acre homes on this?

I I think if if this were gonna go residential, you're gonna have elements, this development right here with those tiny tiny lots, and you're gonna try to cram 300 of those in there.

I have a hard time believing this landowner has any interest in residential because we've not ever seen exactly so.

Yeah, exactly.

So I so again, right now it's zoned for single family homes with one acre lots.

Okay.

So there the zone change is coming.

Well, of course it is, it's coming.

Like, and so the question and the question that keeps running through my mind is this is this the best zone for this area.

I think the biggest problem that I I will say that I have with this is I don't think there's any question that the vast majority of this is likely going to be commercial or some type of commercial that's right along the uh Bangaro Parkway heading to the freeway.

I think the biggest concern is that area along 300 east that abuts all of the residential areas, and the bottom line is I think I'm concerned many of our community members are concerned.

A grocery store that abuts 300 east, and how is that gonna impact?

We have Channing Hall right there on 150 East.

Um we have crosswalks for Willow Springs that are right down the street from this development.

So I mean uh knowing what's in that neighborhood, I would imagine the type of traffic that is going to be there is concerning, and the primary area of concern is not necessarily right there along Bangar Parkway, it's that area along 300 east.

Well, what would you put there?

Let's say you had a development agreement and you said, Hey, it I can wave my magic wand and put whatever there, what would you put there as a buffer?

Well, unfortunately, I can't make wave my magic wand.

But the development agreement is almost is like that.

You could you could say, hey, this is what we're gonna put in here.

Well, right, but again, that those decisions are made by the developer and the property owner, but some sort of buffer.

I mean, right now, what we're seeing is a grocery store that's back end is right there along 300 east.

Right.

Given what I do and the type of traffic in the trucks that are gonna be coming, I don't know how they're coming in and out.

That gives me great pause.

Yeah, so if we're so really truly, if we could do it right, we'd have buffering between that whole neighborhood and brown farm, right?

With our half acre lots and some that are close to an acre, you'd have smaller single families, then you'd have townhomes, then you'd have condos.

Yeah, and by that time we're already out to Bangeter.

So with the with the with a perfect world buffeter.

Well, so but that would then be residential, all it would be high density residential, which no one's been in favor of here.

But it doesn't matter what we want.

Right.

That's the same thing.

Well, I'm just bringing it up.

What it doesn't matter what we want, what we've been asked to look at is and so I'm just looking at it saying, well, now it's RA1.

That's wrong.

That's not the right fit.

But we've been given one option.

Yep.

So notificating on other uses is gets us nowhere.

Yeah, it gets us nowhere.

We have one option in this application.

Yeah.

Is this the same zone they were trying to push through in 20?

No.

No.

No.

Okay.

So the one in 2020 was uh a commercial special district.

Good.

Well, let's let's hear what Mike go ahead.

I I kind of cut you there, so go ahead and take over.

No, it's your it's your meeting.

I'm gonna put my latent city attorney hat on and and remind the planning commission that you can make all the recommendations you want to the to the city council, and I think what you've raised tonight is perfectly valid.

Um but I hear the word if we approve, if we approve, and you're not approving anything, that is the city council's purview.

They bear the burden of whatever final decision they make.

They've got to account to the folks in this room and others in the city.

Um, but making recommendations from a planning perspective is absolutely entirely appropriate.

Yeah, um, and that's why we welcome these dry rounds, don't we?

Because this is where this can kind of come out, and and I promise you the city council listening in on this, right?

It's recorded, they can listen in.

Um, I I welcome that.

So this is why we do that.

So, yeah, I keep it coming.

I mean, that's what that's what this is all about.

Um I just want to say thank you for clarifying.

I think we fall into the I approved because we don't pay attention to the distinctions in many ways in the discussion, but thank you very much for clarifying for us as well as for um the members of the community here what our role is.

But talking about it is still helpful for the community, but also for our applicant to see what we are interested in and what we're thinking about.

There's nothing wrong with that.

And the city council can take or leave our recommendations.

So we can make them or not.

It's been very interchanging.

Thank you.

That's a nice bow on that.

Thank you.

Yes.

So any other questions for the applicant.

No, not right now.

All right.

We're gonna have to get you a bar stool or a little chair there if we keep you up here much longer.

Thank you.

We'll bring it back up after public comment.

So all right.

Here the time has come, it's a public hearing, and it's time to hear from the public.

So again, uh, just a couple guidelines on this, the three-minute time limit.

Uh just we asked that you don't go over that.

You'll hear a nice beeper if you get uh get right up to the buzzer.

Um, and then if there's there's uh you might hear some things like traffic or I mean, we've seen this movie before.

We do welcome uh new ideas.

So if you're maybe the third or fourth person that talks about the same thing, then just you know, uh, we get it.

Uh also it's not a question-answer uh forum, so you'll kind of form questi form like questions to us, and I'll sit here and look at you kind of goofy and not answer your question.

I'm listening, we're writing those down, and then that's when we bring the applicant back up.

So for that awkward pause when I'm just staring at you there, just blinking back at you.

That's what that's all about.

So just if you have questions, just state them out there as open-ended, and then we'll uh hopefully get some answers for you.

Uh we are keeping notes on on everything you're bringing up.

All right, so with that, who would like to open up the public hearing here and talk about this item?

We'll give your three minutes.

Come on down, and if you would just state your name for the recording.

Yeah, my name is Matt Smith, and I live at 329 East Brown Farm Lane.

Commission commissioners, thank you very much for your service.

Really appreciate it.

Um, after reviewing the traffic studies that Mr.

Rasmussen um referred to, I'm deeply concerned about the traffic and the impacts that this will have to the neighborhoods.

All studies done reach the same conclusion.

This project adds enormous new traffic onto an all already very strained corridor.

One of the studies estimates over 10,000 new daily trips that funnel through very few access points, guaranteeing spillover into the residential areas that we just talked about.

The two traffic studies rate key intersections with an F grade, which is the lowest grade possible for these intersections over the the long term.

When intersections fail, we all know what drivers are going to do, they're gonna find different routes.

In fact, the studies explicitly state that drivers will learn to adapt and reroute, which means that drivers are gonna spill over into the residential areas.

They become bypass routes for shoppers, delivery trucks, gas station traffic.

That means residents in those areas are gonna face more noise, speeding, block driveways, and reduce safety for children.

Cue lengths are already extreme.

We all know that up to 700 feet on 300 east and over 1,000 feet on 13 uh on 138 south.

I'd invite everyone to read those traffic studies.

That's what they say.

After the proposed improvements, the Mr.

Rasmussen talked about that the improvements are designed primarily to help the store, not the residents.

That puts more pressure onto the neighborhood edges without preventing cut-through traffic or preserving the residential character.

Once again, long term this the traffic studies all indicate that the intersections reserve or receive an F rating.

But this is bigger than traffic.

This is about the integrity of Draper's master plan, a promise between a city and the residents about the community that we protect.

Changing 17 acres of RA1 and residential land use designations to regional commercial, the city's most intense commercial zoning directly contradicts that promise.

RA1 exists to preserve Draper's semi-rural character.

Families north and east that we just talked about, live on large lots where children play outside.

Streets stay quiet at night.

Introducing a regional shopping center with gas pumps, loading docks, bright lighting, late night activity, and multiple parking stalls fundamentally changes these neighborhood neighborhoods forever.

We all support economic growth, but the master plan said did not say growth at any cost, nor that residential areas should be sacrificed because a parcel is one of the last available.

Draper has succeeded because it has respected zoning transitions and protected established neighborhoods.

Tonight, you're not only voting on a zoning change, you're voting on whether the master plan still matters.

Whether Draper continues to honor its commitments to residents or allows incompatible commercial creep into its established neighborhoods.

So I urge you, please protect the master plan.

Please protect our neighborhoods.

Please deny the request.

Thank you.

Thanks for that.

Next you guys are so polite.

Just come on down.

Well, we're neighbors.

Yeah.

Okay.

Carolyn Phippin 363 Brown Farm Lane.

Um, I do think that one of the big points that's being made by city council members is that this is about maximizing uh sales tax revenue.

Government was not created in the United States of America to maximize sales tax revenue or to maximize tax revenue.

We seem to have forgotten that.

I work a lot with the legislature.

This is a constant conversation.

This is a constant point that I'm making.

The United States of America is not simply an economy.

We are a nation.

We are a country.

People purchase properties based on that promise and commitment between Draper and property owners.

When a property is purchased, it is not purchased with zero encumbrances.

This property was purchased, zoned, one acre residential.

That doesn't mean it can never change.

What it means is that the community has the right and the responsibility to make the decisions about how it changes.

And the maximization of sales tax revenue, if you polled 90% of residents of Draper who would have this in their backyard, I guarantee you that that would not even be on their top 100 list of what they want their government to do for them.

And so I think it's important that we remember what the purpose is and what a community actually is.

So while a community has the ability and the right through their elected officials to make changes to that zoning to the commitment that is made to current property owners, it always comes at cost.

One of the biggest costs has been mentioned, and that is the traffic issue, the right of other property owners to utilize their properties efficiently and with the promises made by the community to them.

By the way, we don't want to be sandy.

Um, by the community to them, those are impacted when zoning goes from one acre residential to massive commercial, surrounded by homes.

And there are a lot of homes right here on Third East that was brought up.

A lot of homes on Third East, they're brand new million-dollar homes on teeny lots, but people are paying over a million dollars for those homes.

And this, um, to put this there, that hurts everybody's um property values.

And the fact is, some people, when these zoning changes are made, some people gain value on their property and other people lose.

We have to acknowledge that.

The losers are every residential property owner in the area.

The gainer is the individual who refuses to accept any residential on the property that he purchased with encumbrances requiring residential one acre on his property.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Next.

My name's Rosemary Thomas.

Our family has lived on Brown Farm Lane, just adjacent to the east for 23 years.

When we moved to Draper on 138th and Bingator, it was a flashing yellow light and a three-way stop.

And we've watched this area grow, and we understand that change is part of a healthy city, but growth must be done thoughtfully, especially when new commercial projects are proposed directly next to long established neighborhoods.

This proposal does not fit what Councilman Mike Green said in his most recent Facebook post, stating land should be zoned with the use matching the development pattern around the existing property.

Our primary concern is the protection of Third East and the transition from the new development to an already established neighborhood and some brand new homes built on Third East.

It's increasingly becoming a busy residential street and allowing any access into this proposed development from Third East would create more traffic problems.

Once commercial or high density traffic is introduced on to onto Third East, it will no longer function as a neighborhood street.

It becomes a cut through from the proposed development.

That directly affects safety, livability, property values for all of us who live in this area of Draper.

We strongly urge the commission to require no access point onto Third East now or in future phases.

Additionally, if commercial is approved next to existing residential areas, the buffer and berm must be meaningful, not symbolic.

We need a substantial landscape berm and a true buffer.

It enables both commercial to be developed and protects and upholds the quality and integrity of the neighborhood.

Finally, zoning should reflect the character and history of the surrounding area.

For years, this part of the city has been designed defined by residential neighborhoods.

A zoning change should enhance that fabric and not disrupt it.

Compatible land use, adequate buffering, and protected access are the foundation of responsible planning.

We ask the commission to prioritize long-term neighborhood stability by requiring no entrance or connection to Third East ever.

A substantial Burman buffer to shield the existing homes and zoning that aligns with the established residential character of the area.

Thank you for your time and considering the people who already call this neighborhood home.

Thank you.

My name is Christina Kessler Day.

I live at 448 Brown Farm Lane, which is just on the west side of the Dam Janovich farm.

I've lived there for about 22 years.

We've owned the property about 22 years.

And the people who preceded me in speaking are also part of our neighborhood, but I know that there are a number of other people here representing other neighborhoods and other interests who are residential as well.

This property that we're talking about right now was purchased with the understanding that it was zoned residential.

And I've watched this happen for decades.

Over and over again.

But they're not listening to us.

It's the fact that people live here.

We have little kids on our streets, not just in my neighborhood, but in the other neighborhoods.

And we don't want a gigantic commercial development there.

We don't want our property values to go down the drain because we've got huge lights in our backyards and people can see into our houses from hotels or whatever.

And if you listen to us, and we matter because I remember Draper City making master plans about this.

If you listen to us, and we're citizens, and we're the ones who pay property taxes right now, and you know, we're we're trying to help you guys out.

We're telling you that we don't want this.

We just don't want this.

And I hope that city council listens to us.

If they're if you guys are filming this, then they're gonna hear us.

We don't want this.

And he doesn't care.

Which is why he keeps pushing this through again and again and again.

So I don't know how everybody else feels, but I know a lot of us are tired of this.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Remember to state your name.

Stephanie James.

Um, we're fairly new to this neighborhood.

We live just across the street from the property in question in Rock well square, the condos there.

And um, so I get a good view of 13800 south throughout my um window.

And there are times that our cars are just standing still for long periods of time.

I mean, it is really bad.

And um, another thing to consider with the traffic I don't know, um, is a lot of times the ambulances will come down 13800 south at least once a day or twice a day.

So how is the traffic in interfere with them getting to the people in those neighborhoods?

So I just wanted to bring that up and just echo what everyone else has said that I like to keep it residential and not commercial.

Thank you.

Thank you.

My name's Lee Holliday, and I'm actually in one of the brand new homes.

I think Mary, you were referencing uh in uh on Concord Farm Lane.

I'm actually not opposed to this for a couple of reasons.

I've lived in several communities that have things that are kind of mixed together.

And I wouldn't be building my personal house, you know, next to something that I had concerns.

I do have concerns, the hotel, yeah.

Of course, I wouldn't want that.

But you know, backing up to that, I mean it's gonna go to be something, you know.

At some point I know it's gonna turn into something, and what that something is, I don't know.

I agree with you where you mentioned that there should be some sort of development agreement.

Um, you know, we brought up traffic.

I think the traffic right now, currently, I think it does get an F.

You know, I know you mentioned that you know it has uh F ratings, and I think something needs to be done.

Um I do think that just having this zone residential, I don't think really works.

I don't think it works for you know high density, but it also doesn't work for that.

So, you know, I'm not opposed to it, but I do think there should be some consideration with some of the neighbors with some of the you know berming or masking or whatever whatever terminology we want to use that you know kind of goes up against that, you know.

I think currently I would probably be the closest one to the store.

I'm not opposed to it because I'm gonna probably shop there.

Let's be honest.

You know, I know a lot of people are opposed to it, but you know, I'll probably see a lot of these same people in that store at some point.

So I'm not trying to rock the apple cart, you know.

I just think that change is hard, and you know, it's I get it.

You've been there somewhere.

I currently have been in the house that I've been moving from for 20 something years, and you know, a lot of change there, but I do think there's to be some thoughtful ways that we can finish this and make this look nice and try to blend it into the community.

So that's that's my thank you.

Thank you.

Bob Clark, uh, we live on third east.

Hi.

Uh we built a house there eight years ago.

We've lived on 50s for about 18 years.

So we certainly had a good chance to watch things happen.

And this thing kind of reminds me of groundhog day because it keeps coming back.

But the reality is it's zoned the way we bought to live here was because of the zoning in the area and our desire to live in Draper.

Uh the difference between the last um effort on this property and this effort is simply that the traffic has expanded.

I think it's worse and worse and worse all the time because we keep adding people.

We've also done a great job of widening 138th, which brings more people to that intersection.

So we don't like the traffic on 30s.

My wife and I cross the road every morning, go for a walk across there, and our 90-year-old neighbors have to have some help getting across there for a long spot where you can get a spot to get across the street.

But it now backs up um because of the um traffic problems on the freeway.

I guess we're routes to 30s.

We all know that.

It now backs up uh further than the the two roundabouts going north.

I've followed that.

What Matt mentioned about people trying to get to their homes.

I mean, I already know the routes I go to through Brown's farm and so forth to get me home so I can get the right way to get there.

When there's problems, but um, you know, I'm I'm there, so it's okay.

We love being there.

But my feeling is that we have a bigger pro problem besides of the the the traffic that we're talking about is the traffic coming out of Draper.

You know, we have three exits basically without a draper.

And back, I I grabbed my notes from the the meetings back in the the first score round in 2002.

And we Terrell and I sat on 150 on the corner there, and we sat on 130 in the corner and did traffic studies the last time around.

And the traffic has just got worse.

Now it's a backing up all the way back past 138th.

There's people go to work in the morning and come home at night.

There's just too much traffic.

And I don't think you can solve the traffic by adding changing this this thing to from a residential to a commercial application.

I mean, to me, I'd say leave it where it's at, you know.

You buy the land, you take that risk.

I mean, you have to do what's best for you, and of course that land is increased in value, and so whoever has it's gonna win anyway.

But the traffic that people are coming to, people are coming from all over Draper to come down and get on the freeway right there, and they're coming back home at night.

I mean, that last survey they did a few years ago said there was like 88% of the people in Draper commute out of the city every day, and so there's just a ton of traffic there.

And it's just my opinion is to leave it where it's at.

Uh fixing something to put commercial on there is not gonna help the traffic, it's just gonna add more and more.

And everybody knows that you know, residential traffic is gonna create much less traffic than any kind of commercial that comes in goes out of there.

So that's just my opinion.

Appreciate your time.

And we know you all live around here and appreciate the same stuff.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Nick Smith, I live on Fort Street, so not backing up to this, but I I don't want to beat a dead horse on the traffic, so I'm just gonna say we're trusting in UDOT to fix this.

And UDOT has filled many communities around us, and I just don't think that they are going to solve a traffic issue when they've shown so much failure.

I'd also like to remind everyone that just across the freeway, we have a massive development that's gonna come in, bringing lots of tax dollars.

So for the city council to think that that's gonna help, we're already we're that's going to be solved across.

We're gonna have entertainment, we're gonna have just so many things.

And um, I I just do not think this is best for our community, and I appreciate you, Mary, for bringing everything up.

I I think those are great concerns, and you do have if you're just passing the buck to city council who is already strongly showing that they're for this, you can stop that right now.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Oliver Herrera.

I actually live um more up on 123rd.

Um, but I'm more here for curiosity.

Um I have questions too.

Um one little statement I have is like Draper residence phase, annual increases in taxes and fees.

And many of us want to know if this project is meaningful to offset those costs.

If the city has models showing that the relocation provides because they're relocating the Smiths, correct?

Is that I think I've heard something about that.

They're not, but adding to it, adding um uh already existing, you know, store in front of us uh Harman's is that gonna be increasing or improving, you know, tax revenue.

What economic studies revenue forecasts or comparative land use evaluations where you should determine that the second store um uh uh is a good anchor on the same block of an existing one.

Is it best long-term financial responsibility for Draper?

Um, are those studies out and public and do we have access to those at all?

I guess are more of my questions.

So I'm more I'm curious on the uh logistics and fiscal responsibility.

So mine's more of an open question to think about.

Um so thanks for your time.

Thank you.

We're writing down furiously, Oliver, so we'll get it down.

Hi there.

I'm Darcy Anderson.

I too live at the condominiums at 248 East, 180 or 138th South, and um, it's a four-story condo building that is on the south side and faces this property in question.

And to exit our parking lot, we go north, and already it is very challenging to get out of our parking lot turning left on 138th.

In fact, we have a solid yellow line on 138th, so really we're probably not supposed to cross that.

Um, the only other way out of our building is to go through the business parking lot to the west of us, down by the gas station out to Bangator.

And so my concern is that already we can't enter 138th, and our parking lot is a cut through, and maybe you've noticed that, but a lot of people are going north on Bangator, but they want to be on 138th, they don't want to wait at the light, and they cut through our parking lot.

I anticipate that to get much much worse if commercial goes in there.

And um, I'm already watching the um Chick-fil-A going in, and how the heck are those customers supposed to get to that restaurant?

And it looks like there's two more cement pads um next to it.

So uh my question is uh my first questions is how are people supposed to get to Chick-fil-A, and what are the two businesses going there?

Why we needed a Chick-fil-A there when we have one on 123rd.

How about a culverse?

My dad wants a culverse, but um and um perhaps you know there um some people have alluded to this that there's a city council member that posted on Facebook that it may be Smith's going in to this property, um, that Smiths is leaving 123rd, no matter what, and that we as Draper residents need to consider the tax impact of uh Smith's leaving.

And um, I don't know why Smiths would need to go there when there's a brand new Smith's 1.4 miles to the west.

And um, so I'm wondering if you can confirm or if the gentleman can confirm if it is Smith's.

Um, but I beg you to not have commercial go here.

I agree with Andrew that it probably can't stay as the one acre lots, the R1 or whatever.

Um, but please have it be residential.

Um before the interest rates went up.

Um people would walk into our condo building asking how they could live there.

They were wanting to live in Draper, but they can't find housing.

And so please make it residential.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Larry Dixon.

Um I concur with everybody who spoke.

We don't want it.

Uh we have a plan.

Residential is great.

I think we need more housing, not more IKEAs and Walmarts.

Um I haven't heard from the city planning department if they recommend this or not.

I don't know if they're allowed to uh make a recommendation or if they just have to.

Okay.

Uh my opinion is we need more housing.

Uh we have schools that are losing students.

Let's put housing in there and use the schools that we have.

Um I really don't trust big money and venture capitalists, and they're going to not look out for draper's best interest.

They're gonna take their money and run.

And uh I think we need me aware of that.

Um we have a master plan, we have good zoning.

Um let's follow it.

You know, it's been residential for at least 20 years.

Maybe RA2 or RA3, but certainly not like more IKEAs.

And traffic is going to suck worse in the future.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, um, I'm a guest guest Bernardo, I live at 13608 South Sher Lane.

I uh moved to Draper four years ago from Farmington because I want to leave in Draper because of the beauty and the the parks and the trails, and uh my house is directly my backyard would be directly against this property right on the northeast side right there.

And uh I asked uh the planning committee to take in consideration or the residents that live right around this area, like it was is being said here by several other people here that has to come and talk to you uh uh or how's it gonna be if this becomes commercial?

Is gonna be light, it's gonna be traffic, it's gonna be noise, it's gonna be if it is a grocery store, it'll be docking uh areas over there that would be trucks delivering you know merchandising and and it's just gonna impact us tremendously, including the traffic that is being mentioned um on 300 east.

Uh this is how my access to go to my home.

I well, me and myself and my wife in the morning we leave to go to work in the morning.

We have to sit in our street to access 300 east to make a left turn to go north.

We already have to sit there sometimes to five to ten minutes to wait opportunity to be able to access our street.

I cannot imagine bringing more commercial their houses is gonna benefit us, or is it just gonna make our the value of property is gonna just uh make our uh qual quarterly of life miserable living here in the area.

And I and I came here to Draper.

A lot of hopes that I I came to the right area to live, and I enjoy being here.

I just want to continue that if possible.

So I think please take in consideration the ones that live in the area and and how this is gonna impact us.

So to keep the this zone residential to us would be the best probably solution, because uh you when you're talking about grocery store and other commercial properties in there, this is gonna be a lot more terrific, a lot of more extended business hours now through the night, no late at night.

And so anyway, I I just feel like uh to take in consideration the ones that live there and even making the street uh improvements like it was the gentleman was saying, like on 300 east, he's gonna make uh if you come in south, you're gonna be able to have a designated lane to turn right.

There is a house right there in the corner.

I don't see how they can add another lane in that corner there.

I don't know why you dot has planned, but this is gonna be pretty tight, and and the traffic is not gonna flow as it's mentioned because especially putting another traffic light on on uh uh banger there between the around the middle of that property.

How is that gonna make traffic flow if it is traffic is stopping on that line?

Appreciate your comments.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, team.

Um, my blood's been bloody boiling since I found about this uh a few days ago, so it's gonna sound like a record.

What was your name?

Oh, my name is James.

James full name James Carter.

Okay.

All right, and I'm uh right on 338th, uh right on the corner there.

Um to me, it kind of just contradicts the general plan uh for controlling density in your established residential areas.

Um I purchased my home, I did so knowing what the zoning was like.

So if kind of the the rumors and the planning are true, it just feels like a massive slap in the face that I may have a docking station that I get uh that my master bedroom now gets to look at and view all day with commercial trucks coming in and out uh delivering products, whether it's retail or not.

Um I don't think it's a harmonious integration.

Uh I think it's a utterly and massive revolting mismatch and it's not gonna control density around uh the resident residential areas.

Um I'm worried we'll get taken advantage of, and nothing will be in place to take care of us.

So I want to make sure that whoever comes in that we get insurances that our quality of life is still maintained.

I'm not having lights blaring into my living room, I'm not having noises.

Um I think it's too big for what we have.

Um if the proposed uh store on 123rd is moving here, we're just gonna be bringing the same bloody problems to our area.

It's still the parking lot's gonna be a bloody mess, traffic is gonna be insane, and it's just gonna be a complete uh cluster.

So I'm not about opposing growth.

Uh it's about the right growth in the right places, and I don't think it's it, and so yeah, I'm very clearly against this.

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

Good evening.

My name is Mike Stout.

I live by the dog park.

I only see that there's that commercial, the dog park.

I just thought that was funny.

In any event, everybody's covered everything.

I just want to we moved here in 2010.

Uh my wife worked at Channing Hall, still works at Channing Hall.

Our kids went to Channing Hall, and when we first came, it was like you could get in and out of there with not a single problem.

Now it's one of the biggest complaints in the area, and everybody blames Channing Hall.

It's not Channing Hall that grew, actually has less enrollment now.

Maybe in part because it's so hard to get in and out every day.

Who knows?

But traffic's been addressed.

Here's the only concerns I have.

Mr.

Rasmussen mentioned bookends.

You can turn the book this way, or you can turn it this way.

And for all those people who, except for the one exception, which I was uh surprised to hear, all those people just built those homes, and when they look at what is surrounding them, they thought it was residential land.

Now, could they say, well, we don't know what's going in there, but since we've been here, it's been up in the air.

I believe Ivory talked at one point about trying to acquire that land.

I don't know why someone like that doesn't come in.

I don't know what um councilman uh or I'm sorry, Commissioner Adams mentioned who one acre lots.

I live on a half acre lot.

Why wouldn't somebody come in and putting in acre lots there?

I mean, we're putting in homes everywhere.

So um the problem I have with it is the fact that everybody thinks the council believes that this is a foregone conclusion.

It's not uh Commissioner Squire has a good point.

If you approve this, and you give your blessing, and the council approves it, all the zoning then moves to a different legal standard.

I'm usually on the other side of represented plenty of landowners in this same thing.

Up in Summit County, before a deal like this, Commissioner Squire has it right.

They put a development agreement in before they make the zone change.

Summit County will not do it in heated instances like this.

So don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

Your recommendations here tonight mean something.

And I think you hear the public, they say don't recommend it.

I'm for that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

My son does.

We've been in Draper for over 30 years.

And so we've seen a lot of changes.

We've seen lots of master plan changes.

And a lot of us would like this to be something desirable for our community that does have commercial and restaurants and amenities for our city.

Because we don't have that like other cities do, so we're always driving to other cities.

I there's a lot of, I would also say there's a lot of steps still to approval with the city council.

So to think this is a foregone conclusion and there's no more control after this is totally inaccurate.

There's a lot of chances to impact all of the design, all of what's approved, all of the traffic, all of these things are going to get handled, and there's gonna be a lot of layers.

So I just wanted to remind you that Draper is more than just the people who did choose to build on streets that honestly have been main arteries since Draper was paved.

So I feel bad for them.

I hope that there are mitigations that are appropriate, but I don't think that it's only up to keeping them happy.

That's all.

Thank you.

And heard all about the traffic and what shouldn't go there, what you know what it should be.

All I you know want to add in is I have two small kids that go to Willow Springs Elementary.

There is no crosswalk for Willow Springs.

I actually called the city and asked about the one um school zone that was there, and no lights ever work.

And they're like, Oh, that's actually for Channing Hall.

So I had one time I dropped my kid off at his friend's house, got home, and five minutes later they came.

They're five-year-old kids crossing 300 east.

Um, and I have had to go up and meet my eight-year-old at Stokes Avenue, and they're still people that blow through that crosswalk and do not stop.

They will not stop, they don't look, they don't care.

And my kid has almost been hit.

So the only thing that I can add that I am concerned about is once again, yes, the traffic.

But what is going to be placed there for the children that are gonna be crossing the new homes that came in and the new homes that are around may have children, and they may go to Willow Springs, they may go to Channing Hall, who knows?

But it is already packed, and I've called the city about maybe putting in a Hawkeye system.

I was told too expensive.

So, what a like what are we gonna do to mitigate that for the children that are gonna be around here?

Um, if this turns into a commercial, because there's gonna be a lot more, and like I said, my eight and five-year-old, we do not trust them to go across 300, and that's probably why a lot of parents drop their kids off at Channing Hall because they do not trust their kids crossing 300.

Um, it is a major thorough thoroughfare now, but I can probably say it wasn't a few years ago.

Okay, it wasn't it's never been a major thoroughfare thoroughfare.

That's always been 138 and Bangatur Parkway for sure, but this 300 is a small road, and it's never been that way.

So that's just all I have to say.

That's my only concern is what we're gonna do for my kids and any other food you kids that may have to cross 300.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Hi, Steve Bowler, 941 Triple Lane Draper.

Um, I'm here to voice my support for this.

Um I am a commercial real estate agent.

I specialize in shopping centers.

I was involved with the Harmons that took place across the street.

I helped bring R.

C.

Willie to Draper.

Uh floor and decor.

Um, heavily involved with the Draper Peak shopping center when it came to town.

And unfortunately, I am sympathetic to the neighbors.

I think that there is a lot that can be done to mitigate noise, lights, traffic.

But unfortunately, this is a fabulous retail piece of property.

There's currently commercial on three of the four intersections.

And I think that there are opportunities for retail that should be serviced here.

That the tax benefits that can be brought to the city of Draper for this site should be taken into consideration.

And I do believe that a lot of things can be handled in a development agreement that can limit the height and the different things that need to be managed for this site.

But it is a great opportunity for the city of Draper to capture this property to bring services, employment, and the tax benefit for many years to come.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, thank you for being here.

I live at 13590 South, 3rd East.

And I'm also representing the 90-year-olds across the street that she comes, tries to come over on her walker, and it's like death.

And my neighbor next door, they neither one can back out when Google Earth puts it on, the traffic is flubbed up on I-15, then our street does not move.

And so I talked to Doppel, and Doppel told me this is recently this week, told me if it's a grade D or F.

That's a high concern.

High concern.

And he explained what an A is.

An A is if you're the only one on the road and you can go.

But if you're a D or an F and you can't even do the speed limit, there's a major problem.

So anyway, a couple things.

Um this comes from Draper City Ordinance 25060 E2, the standards to judge the application.

And I'm using E, and it says whether the potential effects of the proposed amendment have been evaluated and determined not to be detrimental to public health, safety, or the welfare of the recipients of an overall community.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop there.

People on Third East, we can't back up.

And I have I have well, I've got 17 grandkids, but I've got five little ones, and when they come over to visit, boy, do we watch him because they gotta go hurry and get in the house, get the garage door down, and get in the backyard because or in my house because third east is a major problem.

So anyway, when I talked to Doppla also on this, um, the one in front of um what do you call it?

Over uh on Bangater, they told me you cannot put a light between 138 and Bangetor.

There have to be an half a mile, uh half mile distance.

He said, I said, is there any questions I need to ask?

And he said, unless a politician says there needs to be, then there's a possibility.

So that's it.

Over and out, and thanks for being here.

Thanks.

My name is McKay Nielsen.

I live at 13796 South Farm Vista Lane.

I'm right at the intersection of 138th and 3rd East, the very corner house there.

So I work out of my home office.

Um I see, I mean, that's my view, is 138th, and I hear it every day.

Um I know firsthand just how bad it is right now.

I I didn't know about the F grade, but it makes perfect sense now that that's been explained.

Um I mean I have to wear earplugs at night just so that I can like get enough sleep.

We hear the motorcycles running down, and we hear people honking constantly, like it's it's rough.

And I knew that when I bought the place, and it's it's tolerable.

Like I've been able to figure it out.

Um, so I'm not gonna beat the dead horse of the traffic, it's obviously an issue.

I don't see how it would get better even with the proposed um solutions.

Um, I did want to ask a couple of pointed questions about how it would work if it passed because we're right at the corner, right?

He was talking about adding an a third lane on third east to be able to turn right on to 138 south.

I that I don't know how that works exactly because we have our houses on the one side of 30s, then we have the other house right on the corner of 138th and third east as well.

That road's gonna be widened.

I mean, my primary concern is that if if we're gonna make this traffic situation work, that that road's gonna need to be widened, and I don't know what's gonna give way for that because there's homes that are right there, and my I just don't want to lose my house.

I don't want to be forced to sell my house to be able to make this project happen.

That's like my primary concern.

Um, obviously the traffic and everything else sucks, but I don't want to have to leave my house and sell it.

So um that's my main concern, of course.

I don't know how the if it's a Smith that goes in there, the the trucks are gonna turn left on to third east, so they go to the back of the store to do all the loading.

And like I just had tried to have a delivery done the other day, and it was a larger truck, and it didn't even like it didn't know how to deal with that third east intersection, but like having big semis turn left on the third east and then come into the Smiths parking lot so they can load up against the back and like put everything into the store.

I have a hard time like visualizing how that's going to work, which comes back to my main issues.

If that road needs to be widened, what's going to give?

And I don't want to have to sell my house to do that.

So um, yeah, obviously don't want this to happen.

I hope you guys make the right recommendation and thank you for your service, and that's all.

Thanks.

All right, anyone else?

Okay, it's looking pretty quiet out there.

So we'll do last call.

There you go.

You want to come up with something?

Come and whisper it in my ear.

I'm Kristen Thomas.

I live on Brown Farm Lane, and traffic for commercial people are coming going all day long.

It's very different from traffic from residential on that property.

Okay, traffic for commercial.

No.

Traffic for commercial traffic is much more dramatic and it's heavy, it's constant.

Over residential is not.

It's not.

I have some prepared statements, but it's mostly been said already.

So to approve this amendment, you must find consistency with the general plan, harmony with surrounding development, no adverse impacts on neighborhoods and adequate facilities and services.

The evidence in the staff reports contradict all of those findings.

The plan calls for residential and office service.

The neighborhoods uh around the site are residential traffic and adequacy traffic and adjacency impacts clearly exist, and infrastructure concerns remain unresolved.

These aren't optional considerations, they're legal criteria that must be satisfied, and they aren't.

No one here is against business or progress.

This is simply the wrong project in the wrong place.

Draper has an appropriate commercial nodes, and this is not one of them.

You have every justification, both factual and legal to recommend denial.

Um, so I respectfully ask that you reject.

And just on another note, my children used to go to Channing Hall, and um their crossing guard was hit by a car cross crossing third east.

The traffic is horrendous there all the time.

Frequently we have to go the back way out of our neighborhood to find ways to get on to 30 instead of heading west on Brown Farm and turning left.

We have to either rely on the mercy of other drivers to let us in, or we just have to go around and come down 138th to get west on 138th.

So not a fan of this.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh my name is Fernando Lurch.

I'm the owner of 1372, uh, the the love right in the corner.

And I would like just to add uh or suggest to consider a significant buffer structure, could be uh green belt, another street, uh, or significant uh you know structure between the existing property and the rest of the residential area, regardless of the rezoning.

Even if you go to you know medium or higher density, uh, you know, resoning, I think this could be very beneficial for everyone based on the comments.

Uh you know, here noted, you know, thanks.

Perfect.

Thanks.

All right, we'll go ahead and wrap this up.

Going once, going twice.

We will close the public hearing.

Thank you for all those comments.

So there are a lot of questions posed, open-ended questions.

Thanks for doing that and playing along.

So let's go ahead and invite the applicant back up.

And uh we'll just go through a couple of those questions and then some observations.

So bring your bar stool up with you.

Thank you.

So based on that, I'll I'll kind of let you go first.

Any questions that you heard that you want to address just uh before we lose your train of thought?

I don't think so.

I think I understand everything that they have said.

I understand a lot of their feelings and and where they're coming from.

I'm not unsympathetic to it, but I think a lot of the issues, although I don't think they agree with me, can be handled in a development agreement in terms of buffering, etc.

Recognizing that they don't think this is the right use for the property, uh, but I think it's needed in Draper, and I think there are ways to address the majority of these concerns, and I do believe the traffic study is accurate.

It was accepted by the city, it was accepted by the state, and uh those mitigations will greatly improve conditions today and also satisfy the long-term development.

One uh question was posed that was very open-ended, but is there in your in your work with these potential tenants?

Um, is there a way that you forecast revenue?

Is there a way that you forecast what that would bring to a city?

There is one one comment was you know, is there somewhere publicly that people can see the amount of revenue that that'll come in?

Because frankly, the city lives off off tax revenue, and if it's not retail, it will be property tax.

So every property owner in here can be exposed to higher property taxes, retail.

I I think that more than half of our budget is based on retail, and my understanding is that is down.

So even though you know we're supposed to have a good economy now, but that is down.

So um what what data do you have that you could kind of share or direct people to in your travels?

I don't have any at my fingertips, but I will get some to the staff as to what might be generated out of a store of that size, yeah.

Uh, and whether or not it will have any impact on Harman's across the street and other retail.

If one of the retailers on 123rd were to relocate, I think there is plenty of tenants that will that will fill that space and create additional retail sales, and then this new retail will be will be even better.

So I don't have those at my fingertips, I'm sorry, but I will get that information.

It was just it was a it was a great comment, so I just wanted to bring that up and see you know if you had any resources for that because that really does help things here.

I mean, we all do live here, and if we're gonna go through any kind of pain and hassle, uh, you know, what's the what's the upside?

And I think that's a big upside that we can still have the cool stuff that we enjoy.

Draper provides, like our police department, and I mean we all think that's great, and our trails and and uh everything else.

But again, um that's yeah, uh and we'll do a little bit more digging on that with with research on that, because that would help me to say, well, what would something like this bring out?

Great.

I have a question.

Yeah, there was some early comment about the traffic study.

One of the commenters had reviewed the traffic study.

Mr.

Smith, I believe.

And so it's it sounds like the current grades on some of these intersections is not impressive.

What is the grading or the the projection of the grading after the improvements and with the project in place?

Let me just refer to the traffic study here for a minute if you don't mind.

We haven't been provided that, and understandably, it would not normally demand it out of the staff if I were you, but okay.

Um if you if with the mitigated circumstances that I described earlier, uh the north access at 150 east goes to an A.

The East Banger 150 east and Bangar Parkway goes to a C, which I think is currently failing.

The West Access Bangder Parkway, where I described the new turn signal, that's an A.

138th and Bangar Parkway, that right turn goes to a C, which I think is a D or an E today, because it just backs up so far because there's no dedicated right turn lane there.

Rockwell Square 138, that is a problem that I'm not sure this can this can solve, but it goes to a level of service D because you can't those intersections don't line up.

So that's one that we probably can't solve, honestly.

Um third east and one thirty-eighth goes to a B because you get that right turn lane.

Dedicated traffic light anticipated to be added there.

There is not as part of this project, but I think a Draper plans on doing a traffic light there in the very near future.

And how does a right turn lane work there?

Because that's private, that's private property right there.

Is there enough room there just that that that can be allocated?

Are you saying are you saying a right a right hand?

You see what I mean?

Because if you look at this map up there, it's gonna even if you use your property to create that lane, boom, then it hits this gentleman's you know, corner lot.

Right.

I I if if memory serves me correctly, that lane that is one lane right now, and so you either are turning left or you're turning right, and therefore it stacks up for the people that are turning left.

So if you add a right turn dedicated lane in there, you're shaking your head.

There are two lanes.

There's a middle turn lane that is used as a left turn lane, and then what would be a straight lane, but there's nowhere to go straight.

Yeah, do you think that's a good thing?

So right or left there.

A light there would allow that right turn to occur on a green arrow.

And then when did you say this study happened?

The first iteration was done in 2022 with these conditions, and then there have been some updates done recently.

I don't know that they have been completed and turned into the staff, but they haven't changed much.

We use the in fact it probably has gotten a little more favorable because we used a larger retailer in in addressing this staff.

It was over 100,000 square feet, and now we're down close to 95 to 100.

So that'll affect those numbers a little bit.

But I think in general, these numbers probably hold pretty well today.

I'm not sure.

I see a lot of agreement from people behind.

I'm sure you don't.

And and I drive these roads too, so um, yeah, I how often would we want uh traffic study updated?

So on this project, um, we do have the improvements based on the previous traffic studies.

The improvements are already designed and ready to go that will improve this.

One element that's difficult with trying to project a new traffic study is without knowing specifically what retail you're going to do.

We don't really have a way of fine-tuning it beyond the general traffic study that we have now.

So there's not much benefit in trying to get a new one today versus the one that was done three years ago because of the the cloudiness on the specific uses of traffic.

But we're confident that the increase in level of service in all of these surrounding intersections, it'll be a noticeable difference.

That being said, I-15 does back up, Draper doesn't have control of that.

Whenever the freeway backs up, we get a lot of overflow traffic that we just can't control.

Um but looking at level of service, a level of service D.

There's also an E and an F.

The E and the F is when it's failing in essence.

So an acceptable level of service is a D.

That's not necessarily what we always strive to get, but that is an acceptable level of service when you're rating a traffic intersection.

Just for your information.

I tried to convince my dad for years that a D was acceptable.

I never got a lot of people.

But I we're all very conditioned to not accept the case.

I appreciate what I appreciate what Brian is saying.

And just for further clarification, when this study was done, we did use a large grocery store footprint because those are that there's the interest we had from most of the most of the retailers out there.

So those generate a certain amount of trips per day, and they also capture a certain amount of pass by trips based on the traffic that's there.

And that's another reason.

This is a good site for retail because it sits on two major arterials collector routes.

Um just for the city staff, where can the public get the traffic study?

Is it available to the public?

Uh we do have uh when people grammar G R A M A it.

We do provide the studies per yeah.

I I think Mike had it when he was up here in the first request.

Yeah.

Any other questions for the applicant?

Did we have yeah, did we have a lot of different things?

We can still deliberate this OH.

You wrote down though from public comment.

Well, yeah, there's the but the traffic has been brought up.

Okay, but the one that I think was gonna go into the radar is like you know, all revolving around tax revenue.

Like what would this bring in?

I mean, the comment was made that well, we can there's a Smiths over.

That's that's what is that, Riverton over there?

Great, doesn't help us or the Draper City Planet.

I have no trying to look out for Draper.

Can probably deliver that stuff to this to the staff by midweek next week.

I've used him in other sites, and he'll be able to put a finger on it.

That's that's the only one that kind of flew into the radar.

Everything else is just gonna, you know.

Nothing that the applicant would address.

Anything else?

Like for clarification, I guess people are speculating right now that it's gonna be a Smith, it's not gonna be a Smith.

Do you know?

I can't confirm one way or the other because I don't have that authorization from either of the major tenants that we're working with.

Does it have to be a Smiths?

Can it be something else?

Okay, guys, I can't have you guys popping off because we've just got to be able to do that.

We've got a we've got a recording, public comments closed.

I'm not trying to be a weenie.

I'm just trying to just keep it, keep it.

It's gonna turn to Cedar Hills here in a minute if you've ever attended out there, you can tell my friends out there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is like, okay, maybe people don't want to smith, but what if there was a different retailer that went in there that was more favorable?

Like, would that help?

But well, and that Christine is why a development agreement would be there.

You go.

Yeah.

And and again, it's it's zoning that we're looking at right now, right?

To say, hey, if this goes from a from one acre lots residential to this commercial zone, which would allow for what we've might be sensing it's coming, right?

I mean, uh, sorry, we just can't, it's just an elephant in the room.

We just you know nobody can can say it yet.

But with that any other questions for the applicant.

No, okay.

All right, we'll let you be seated so we can kind of hear the stuff.

Thank you.

Good luck, and thanks for the service again.

Sorry to keep you so late.

No, thank you.

Thanks for being so detailed.

All right, so a couple points.

I don't get to vote, but I've got a couple points here.

Oh, yeah, Mike, go ahead.

I I did have a question for the applicant if I'm gonna go.

Oh, I'm sorry.

You know what?

We're gonna bring them back up.

Sorry, Mike.

One more, sorry.

Mr.

Rasmussen, please.

Can I just make a comment while we're waiting?

Or for a minute?

Um someone someone suggested that um politicians um really um make an impact, but we're not politicians as a planning commission.

We just make recommendations to the city council.

Our focus is on planning, but um, we're not elected up here.

We are all appointed or um by the I don't I don't think they were personally attacking us.

Oh, I don't feel like it's an attack.

I just want to clarify that we're not the politicians.

Well, I'm well paid, I might address it.

No, I think overtime right now.

Go ahead.

We'll let we'll have Mike.

City Council and politicians.

Go ahead.

I'm I'm just curious as to the date of the traffic study that Mr.

Asmuson, you've been referring to, because all the other traffic studies I've seen are almost three years old now.

And so this is 2022, so uh I I referred to the same thing.

All right, yeah, yeah.

Is that fair, Mike?

Did you say it had been updated though?

There are some updates going on right now.

Okay, uh on behalf of the tenants.

Potentially, I guess that's what I'm curious about.

Yeah, some of the conclusions I've read the traffic studies.

Don't see it.

Mike, go ahead.

I've read the traffic studies, and I don't see references to the improvements that are scheduled to go in in the spring.

So I'm just a little confused as to where that's coming from.

But maybe I didn't read carefully enough.

So the the the scheduled improvements that are referred to that I referred to tonight are a part of the traffic study, I think, Brian.

The updated traffic study that you're the if the updated traffic study calls for anything different, we will come in with some recommended changes.

Okay, right now we're going off this 2022 traffic study.

Okay, thanks.

Am I right, Brian?

That's acknowledgement, right?

Yes, Brian.

Got it.

Yes, that's correct.

Thank you.

All right.

One more time.

Last call for the applicant.

This goes to that.

We should just say here at the front, but all right, thank you.

Okay.

Where was I?

I don't get to vote, but I've got some I've got some points here.

So um the these have come up.

So property values, let's talk about those for a minute.

Um the what I brought where uh what I brought up with the uh tax revenue, it comes from one of a couple sources, but retail revenue is great.

We need more of it.

Uh is what we constantly hear that.

Uh whether you know, there's this cannibalism of one store to the next or whatever.

I'm not subscribing to any of that right now.

I'm just saying that we need more retail, and if not here, where would we put it?

So that's that's a question.

So now, as we say, well, they'd like to put that here.

Let's talk about the property values.

One thing that is is hurting affordability is every single thing that goes into paying for a property, and one of those is the property tax that's assessed.

So if we don't have more retail, and I'm not an economist, but it just goes what when we're being told by the city that we're short on revenue, we can either get it from one place or another.

We can stop spending it, you're right.

So well, however, I mean that's a flippant comment right there that we can stop spending it.

Our our role is not to map out sales tax revenue.

Our role is planning and smart planning.

It's to ask is this zone change correct beneficial.

And that's the only thing though.

We do have a lot of things.

Well, is it legal?

Is it allowed?

Yeah, would this be yeah, would this be?

And it has to meet the findings in the color.

Right.

Okay, so that's that's a question on the property values of property taxes could go up.

Uh just uh can I add to that really quick?

So I lived in Sandy when they were building the Walmart sandpit, and people were so furious that they were gonna build it.

There was like a huge campaign that all everybody was all against it.

Um and so far nobody's nobody's properties were were damaged, you know, for all that.

I think they planned it really well.

Um, and the people who were like so against the Walmart, we're shopping there all the time.

So I just wanted to address it.

Yeah, and that and that was all as part of what the amphitheater and everything they have there.

So yeah, and even just sticking to Draper.

So if we looked at I what's it called?

Draper Crossing, is that where we have a Smiths right now?

Is that what that's called?

Draper Crossing.

I think it is.

Uh, there's Draper Peaks across the way and then Draper Crossing.

So if you look at that, it's real similar.

You've got Stone Bridge right behind it.

It's a residential neighborhood.

Uh it's 124th.

I'm looking right here, you know, as you come down Pioneer.

Turns into 124th right there, right behind Smith's.

Um, so I kind of like to look at well, this is what we have in Draper right now.

You have huge major artery right there, just like you have with Banger.

And then you've got that kind of residential street pioneer behind it that then feeds down into Miniman.

So I just look at that and I say, you know what, um just take that as a model.

If it were that, what would that feel like?

Now, third east.

I live off of third east, I have to deal with third east.

I mean, we all we all feel it, right?

If there's something going on on I 15, it all bleeds out some way, how some way, somehow it all all that traffic ends up on third east.

So you always know when there's trouble on on I 15.

But as far as the the zoning goes, did we not the this is another thing that I see up here since I've been up here since 2012?

Did we when we looked at this the last time with the medical center?

Was it proposed to have access, traffic access?

Was there gonna be a cut in and traffic access into this property if it had gone that way?

Yes, the mid block access into the property on Bangar Highway was actually committed to by U dot many years ago when they extended Bangadur Highway.

So that access into this site has always been consistent.

And then what about on third east?

Was was that proposal asking for access from third east, or would that have been closed off and then these residents wouldn't wouldn't even feel that?

Um a third east hasn't had any definitive accesses.

Some of the proposals have shown accesses and some of them have not on third east.

And this one would have access into third from third east.

Uh we haven't seen a an actual submittal yet, so nothing has been committed to yet on third east from this commercial site.

Interesting.

Okay.

Which is not to beat a dead horse, but something else that could be dealt with in a development agreement.

Yeah, I think they're gonna be able to do that.

There's a lot of things I really do.

I think there's a lot of things that could be addressed.

There's tons of mitigation measures buffers, walls, grass, lights, lights, lighting, and noise, setbacks, all of that.

So those things the the applicants listened to the public to our discussion, so hopefully those things would show up in a development agreement.

Yeah, and that's why we get this dry run so that everybody can kind of speak their piece, they can get it out.

Uh, you know, the city council who's elected, they can they can listen in and they can go up this and you guys can see them on a Tuesday night coming soon.

So um, you know, be sure to put that on your calendars.

Uh it's not this next Tuesday, I don't believe.

No, okay.

We don't just watch your calendars.

I'm I'm not December.

I don't schedule that stuff.

It'll be more signed.

December second.

Yeah.

There you go, December second.

Thanks, Mike.

All right, commissioners.

We've got a propose a couple things here.

What do you want to do?

And just as a review, this goes forward regardless.

So whether it's positive or negative from us, it goes forward, they get to hear it no matter what.

So you'll always get that Tuesday night with the council.

Well, I feel pretty strongly that I mean we have a plan in front of us, it has what it has, and it doesn't have what it doesn't have, and it doesn't have something that I feel like I would need to approve this zone.

So if anyone would like to discuss that further, we can, or I am happy to start making motions.

I'm in agreement with you, Mary.

Go ahead.

I I say go ahead.

I go ahead and address the findings for denial.

I think that would be really important.

Okay.

They're listed below the sample or the motion we would.

I remember we have the two, both the land use and the zoning.

Yes.

Okay, give me one slide.

Yeah, I'll start.

Um I will say um in addition, the road improvements sound good.

And um, but again, it's nothing we have in writing.

So when we look at um finding number four, that there are not out of adequate facilities.

I I think that applies to what we're looking at today.

So um there are probably multiple findings for denial that I could come up with.

Um but okay.

I move the we forward a negative recommendation to the city council for the land use map amendment as requested by Dwayne Rasmussen representing Tom Lloyd and Lloyd's TLC Limited application 2025-0064-MA based on the findings and the criteria for denial listed in the staff report dated October 28, 2025, and the findings specifically for this denial are numbers two, three, and four.

Okay, thanks, Mary, for that motion.

Who will second it?

I'll second it.

Kendra will second it.

Okay.

Let's go ahead and put that to a vote then.

Mary, how do you vote?

Yes.

Kendra.

Yes.

Lisa.

Yes.

And Christine.

Yes.

Okay.

Let's go to the uh now.

We got zoning down here, right?

Yep.

Okay, go ahead.

Zoning map amendment.

Am I doing it?

Okay.

I move that we forward a negative recommendation to the city council for the zoning map amendment as requested by Dwayne Rasmussen representing Tom Lloyd and Lloyd's TLC Limited.

Application 2025-0065-MA.

Based on the findings and criteria for denial listed in the staff report dated October 28, 2025.

And findings for denial are numbers two, three, and four.

Thank you, Mary.

Who'll second that?

I'll second that.

Okay, thanks again, Kendra.

On that.

So let's put that again to a vote, Mary.

Yes.

Kendra.

Yes.

Lisa?

Yes.

And Christine.

Yes.

Okay.

All right, that'll move forward with negative recommendations to the city council and watch your calendars for December 2nd, is what we're being told right now.

All right.

Our next agenda item on the list.

It's also a public hearing.

It's the open shaw draper 138 land use map and zoning map amendment.

It's on the request of Charlie Open Shaw and Porter OpenShaw and amendment to the land use map to the regional commercial designation and a zoning map amendment to the CR regional commercial zone for approximately 1.44 acres located approximately one or 231 east, 13800 south.

This is known as application 2025 0080-MA and 2025 0074-MA.

Todd Draper's our contact.

It's yours.

All right.

Yes, this is open shot draper 138 land use map and zoning map amendment applications.

This is the vicinity, immediately south of the last one we just saw.

And comprises a couple of properties right there, a few properties right there, right at the intersection of Bangaton 138.

This is the aerial map showing those properties.

And they are currently kind of a couple of different zones here.

And then the other being some of that RA1.

Again, regional commercial and the land use designation is compatible with the regional commercial zoning or CR, which they are also asking for.

And that is again those big box centers, upskill offices, and large scale master plan commercial centers.

And again, the lists of uses that are permitted or conditional in that zone.

And the site photo showing uh specifically this would be the property right front along the sidewalk here, and then right in the corner here.

I did not receive public comments on this one specifically, but you might want to consider the ones that were with the previous application.

And do you have any further questions for me?

No, thank you.

It does look like the entirety of this property was included in the plan for the last one, and that is seems to be the reason for the conceptual plan, yes.

Yep, okay.

I don't want to speak over Todd, but no, you cannot consider the the comments because this is a separate application, and this this applicant has his own set of issues.

Perfect, thanks, Mike.

All right, is the applicant here?

Come on down, just state your name, and and as everyone else gets, you could add whatever you like.

Right.

My name's Steve Lovell, I'm legal counsel for the applicant.

Uh I think uh Mr.

Rasmussen did a fantastic job of outlining the general plan and what the goal is of trying to create a nice center.

My client uh, as you saw in the site plan, is uh planning on as of right now wanting to be part of that center and add additional retail support to the center.

Um we two are in support of a development agreement to help mitigate some of the concerns that were discussed previously.

I don't think I have anything else to I have a question though.

Would you rather us um think of your property in conjunction with the other, or um consider it separate?

Right now, the access to the proposed access to my client's properties is proposed to be shared with the uh prior applicants uh site plan.

So in the event that does not receive favorable approval, then we would we would um I mean right now this is not a site plan application meeting uh application, so uh I would say that yeah, we we would very much like to continue forward with our application for a land use uh amendment and and um general plan amendment.

I think um if I'm remembering correctly when I looked at their site plan conception, the set conceptual plan, um there was a commercial property, and I think our commercial building, and I think it overlapped the boundaries of this property.

Did it or is it did it was the concept concept um solely within those red boundaries?

Do you recall all of the developments on my client's property would be contained within his property?

Okay, yeah.

Okay, thanks.

All right, we don't have any other questions, but as before, if we need you, we'll invite you back up after public comment.

Thank you.

All right, this again is a public hearing.

Who would like to address this agenda item?

Feel free.

And just remember to state your name.

I'm Ben Jones.

Umil to this last go round.

Um, if this becomes regional commercial, the parcels around it will inevitably follow because applicate applicants will cite this decision as justification.

That's how zone creep begins.

You end up with commercial expansion, inching deeper into residential corridors year after year.

The city zoning map in exhibit F shows how vulnerable the area becomes if this single decision is made.

Planning commissions don't just look at this project, they look at the next five or ten applications it will invite.

Approving this rezone sets a precedent that undermines the neighborhood stability long beyond the applicant's construction timeline.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, anyone else.

Kristen Thomas, I live on Brown Farm Lane.

I have concerns if this is not developed as part of this whole thing being developed.

What access points are there to get into this little property?

Are we having like extra driveways going in off of 138 and Bangarder to get into this one little thing?

That's all.

Thank you.

Again, it's Mike's Dout.

I have the same concerns.

I think these I mean, by Mr.

Loveland's admission, they came, they expect the one development to create all their access.

It seems to me it's a very incomplete application.

I want to go back to the overall picture here.

I felt uh didn't have time to mention, but the one thing I miss about that field is all the deer.

That used to be one of the last spots that the herds of deer could come and live.

And we just don't have that in Draper anymore.

That's why so many.

I grew up out in this area.

Uh I spent four years living where the uh I think it's the Taco Bell is now next to the old Texco that was there.

And so this gentleman's correct that if you approve this application, then it's gonna give Mr.

Raps Rasmussen's group more power to come back to the council and say, look, we've got this.

Now we just need the other 17 acres to fulfill this big retail center.

So I think it's an incomplete application.

I'd ask you to recommend uh as you did on the last one.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh my name's Robbie Stag, I live on 13598 Shirlane.

And I second and third, whatever you want to say for the other two gentlemen that if this one was approved, it gives more uh power to the Rasmussen's group to get theirs approved.

Um it does seem like when you asked the gentleman the question if they want to be included in the same one, he couldn't give a very definitive answer because I think they probably have an agreement worked out that they are working together and that they are working on this to make this property one big property.

So he says it'll be contained, but it sounds like they have an agreement with each other.

So thank you.

Larry Dixon.

Um it seems like this is not um part of our grand plan of uh how we want our city to grow.

And it seems like we're picking apart um what seems like a very good city plan.

And uh I think you're going down a slippery slope when we start piecemealing exceptions without full study.

We had a lot of paid staff spent months and months and months, I'm sure, doing your plan, you know, the the master plan for the city.

Um what's wrong with it?

Why are we picking it apart?

Um I think we ought to stick with what we have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I always go back to the organization of the city, and at the organization city every time there's a budget of one paid.

Please state your name.

Bob Clark.

They they always want to know, they always say who the top important people are, and that's Draper residents.

And you guys are talking about revenue, which I understand somewhat.

But uh the residents are the most important part of Draper, according to Draper.

That's what it's all about.

And I know the last time this thing came up way way back when somebody wanted to be a car wash on the corner.

You guys said you can have a car wash.

Well, I got a car across the street.

Now there's a quick buck on that other corner.

So I don't know how we figure these things out, but you know, this has been zone for residential use for years.

I would say stay with it.

Yes, it's on a corner.

Why don't you make Bangar the cutoff for commercial?

And say leave it on the west side and not on the east side.

And then you've then it goes where people bought homes to live here and do what they want to do on their lives, and you leave it alone.

So I agree with that.

This should not be you know made an exception to the rule and made commercial.

Poor guys on the end on the 138th have three two or three houses, they're living by themselves in a corner now.

So I would say just leave it where it's at.

Thank you.

Holiday again.

Um, if this doesn't get approved, how would the access actually come on to 138?

So if we talk traffic, are we gonna have?

I mean, I'm looking at multiple parcels, they all probably be entitled to some sort of entrance.

So I think traffic could be really impacted.

So I do think we need to look at this as a whole on how we adjust this or how it does get approved, because if we kept it the way it is, what would that do to the traffic on 138th if they decided to build whatever it's currently zoned at?

So thank you.

All right, it's getting quiet, so we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.

Thank you.

All right, commissioners.

I'm gonna bring the applicant back up just for a quick quick question.

So is it Steve?

Yeah.

Hi again.

So a couple questions were asked, just that this is and and you're in a weird spot here, right?

Because you guys haven't merged properties, there's different owners, different interests yet, they're all pushing probably for towards the same goal here.

Um what is going to happen?

So for example, if we make this uh this recommendation and that moves forward, uh I mean, I I guess I'm stumbling around here because do we really think one's gonna go one way and one's not?

Is right?

I mean, if the city council says no to everything or to one, they'll say no to the other, and if they say yes to one, they'll say yes to the other.

So I'm just it's welcome that they're both here at the same time.

It is because normally we'd be sitting here going, well, what's going on?

Because I'm asking myself right now, well, what's going on with those other three homes right there?

And I think obviously we unanimously had issues with the last application and the zone they were asking for, and so I guess my question, well, for discussion later, would be do the same issues apply here?

So yeah, to the to this one.

Well, we'll talk about it.

But not for the sorry, not for you.

So I just want to give you a chance.

Anything you want to add about that?

I mean, we're just kind of throwing you in with the other one, but we're not we can't.

We can't appreciate that.

So we're not.

Um, yeah, as of right now, we are working with the other applicant, and that's the shared access is going to help mitigate some of the concerns as opposed to each having their own access.

That's where it made sense to align together.

But uh our property is different, it's not uh fully residential currently, right now.

Um most of it's zoned for office, so we could do you know, uh, we could do office right now, and we we wouldn't be talking, you know, right we just go right to the site plan.

Yeah, um, so it's uh it is it is different.

Um obviously any access to the site would have to be approved through the site plan process.

Uh our preference is to do we think retail is a better fit for this corner than office.

Um, but if that's uh ultimately the only option, then we'll be back here with an application uh to pursue um office use for this and for the property.

Right.

Okay, good.

I just wanted to give you a chance to speak on that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, thoughts again on this.

What are our access business access requirements in respect to an intersection and the distance they need to fall from the intersection?

So in our transportation master plan, we have an entire section on access management.

And the basic layout is the busier the street, the farther apart the accesses need to be, and the farther away from the intersections they need to be.

We do have in our Draper City code that commercial properties, whether they're retail or office, do have to have shared access for the purpose of cutting down the number of access streets onto these classified streets.

So if we hypothetically approved, either approved this zone change tonight, or not, I'm sorry, Mike.

Send a positive recommendation for this zone change tonight.

Um, or if the applicant just came in tomorrow with a site plan that conforms with the zone.

Do we know what their access would be?

Is there enough footage?

You know, linear footage on 138th to meet what our code is.

Presently, the frontage improvements contemplate a shared access on 138th.

Those improvements are the ones that we're talking about starting next spring.

Um we have not received an official site plan submit all, and that's when the accesses are officially entitled.

So we don't have any entitled access points, but right now it contemplates a shared access between the two property owners, the two groups of properties.

Right.

And so I'm just looking at this as an individual property, and what their access would be in the event of a zone change.

If I remember right, remember they wanted to do a bit there, right?

Okay, they wanted to do a car wash, yeah, originally.

And I think the access was as far to the east as they could go.

Yeah, I'm I'm looking at an aerial like where that grease monkey is, and then that the car wash, the self-served car wash that's across the street.

I'm assuming it would be similar to that, right?

It's close.

Because traffic hasn't, I mean, 138th is what it is.

Obviously, that grease monkey, and definitely that car wash has been there longer, right?

Than than 138th has been that busy.

But is it safe to assume that that's about where they'd be coming in with the site plan if this were something totally independent?

Because that's what we're proposing here, is just taking this as its own parcel and its own application.

And this is this would this would be how they would have to come in with site plan access.

It wouldn't be off of Bangitore, it would be off of 138th, correct?

So zoning doesn't entitle access points.

That would come through the site plan portion.

So when without an official site plan seeing what they're requesting, we wouldn't be able to determine or to grant where an access is.

Like I stated, the the current plans that we do have contemplated right at the east boundary of that red line for a shared access between the two groups of zoning requests you saw tonight.

Got it.

Just I'm I'm just saying if the other one goes away and this one stands, they could come in with they'd have options.

They wouldn't be landlocked.

Both properties have entitled land use.

And would try and mitigate any potential impacts to the 138th by the traffic movements, regardless of what the land use is, or ultimately would be approved.

All right.

We've got to give a couple motions together.

So what do you say?

I'm gonna just say that my biggest concern here is that what's before us is that these projects are connected.

Um the plan, they're all based on each other.

Um I do think that this property is significantly different in being at the corner.

So I also think realistically that there are going to be changes to the zone, and this is probably going to be commercial in the long run.

My fundamental issue with a a lot of this is the impacts and that transition between residential and commercial.

Um that issue is not as present with this property.

However, based on the facts before us and its connection with the other, I think my lean would be that this is going to be a negative recommendation.

I don't know if anyone wants to have further discussion, or I can make a motion.

I think you're right, Kendra.

I think we wait.

We wanna we want a development agreement.

It's connected to this property, this other property.

Um, let's keep it together.

I agree.

I don't like the idea of hodgepodge and a more consistent uniform plan would make more sense for the community as a whole.

Well, and I also think the requested zone on a parcel that size is a whole can of worms.

I mean, I that the size of that parcel.

Um, how many acres are we looking at?

It's significantly smaller.

So um, yeah, 1.44.

So I would hesitate to even give um to give that zone to a parcel that's small again without knowing for sure what's going on there and you know how that would be dealt with moving forward.

So I have you're right, the issues are different, but in the end the concerns for me are the same.

I think it's the zone not being quite right in its plane form and needing some modification.

And the other point is the applicant did specify that depending on what happens with the city council and how this moves forward, they can and will present a different plan moving forward, and that may reach a different result if that's in front of us.

Right.

So if there's no further discussion, I can go ahead and make a motion.

Yeah, go ahead.

I move that we forward a negative recommendation to the city council for the land app amendment as requested by Charlie OpenShaw and Porter Openshaw representing CGC J O Holdings LLC and PNJ Ventures LLC application 2025-0080-ma, based on the findings and criteria for denial listed in the staff report, dated October 28th, 2025.

The specific findings for denial that I think are present here are two, three, and four, um, as well as those things that we've discussed.

Um great, and who'll second that?

I'll second.

All right, thanks, Christine.

Okay, let's put that one to a vote.

Kendra.

Yes.

Christine?

Yes.

Mary?

Yes.

And Lisa.

Yes.

Okay, next one.

Go for it.

Okay.

I move that we forward a let me get to the right spot.

A negative recommendation to the city council for the zoning map amendment as requested by Charlie Openshaw and Porter Openshaw representing CJO Holdings LLC and PNJ Ventures LLC application 2025-0074-ma, based on the findings and criteria for denial listed in the staff report, dated October 28th, 2025, specifically the findings at um issue are two, three, and four.

Thank you.

Who'll second that one?

I'll second.

Lisa on that, second.

Let's go ahead and put that to a vote.

Kendra?

Yes.

Lisa?

Yes.

Christine?

Yes.

And Mary.

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

Thank you.

All right.

Good luck with City Council.

We thank you for coming in.

And I think that concludes our agendas for tonight because we had that last continued item, right?

Or that's been that's been moved.

No.

The Pinnacle Towers conditional has been moved.

Any other items in front of us tonight?

No.

All right, seeing no other business, do we have a motion?

I move we adjourn.

Adjourned.