Good evening.

Welcome to our Draper City Planning Commission meeting.

We uh want to welcome you to Thursday, February 26th, 2026.

Uh, thanks to the staff for getting everything ready on our agenda, posting up notices throughout the weeks prior, and then for staying late tonight as usual.

Thanks for the commissioners uh and their time um spending it up here with us, volunteering their time, and then thank you, of course, to the applicants and any of our neighbors that have attended and visiting in the meeting tonight.

So let's go ahead and get things started.

We've got an agenda posted online and also uh paper copy in the back.

Jennifer, there's no changes, correct?

To the agendas posted.

Correct.

All right, so we'll go ahead and move forward with what we have here.

We just have a few public hearings tonight.

Uh the first of which is the break site plan and cross access deviation request.

This is on the request of Gary Knapp, representing LM Restaurant Group LC.

It's a site plan and a cross access deviation.

It's located on 1.02 acres of property located at approximately 12240 south 700 east and 1225 south 700 east.

Known as applications 2024-0356-sp and 2025-0271-VAR.

So Nick Whitaker's R staff contact.

So Nick, go ahead.

Thank you.

So, yes, this is the the break site plan and cross access deviation request.

You may recognize Gary from his uh rezone and uh site plan amendment.

Uh let's see, here's the vicinity map of the property.

It's just right off of 7th and uh 700 east and uh uh right by 123 uh 1230 south.

Here's an aerial map of the property.

Now it is showing two properties.

Um last December, uh the applicant did come in and do a um an amendment, um a plat amendment, sorry, um, and it is still um being recorded, so that will soon appear as one property.

Here's the land use map.

Uh the land use designation is neighborhood commercial, and the zoning map.

Uh the zone is C C is a site plan.

Um, the proposed site plan for the break.

Um here's a up close picture here.

Um so as you can see there are two um points of entry.

Uh one here, another here.

Um to the south of the property is a commercial business.

Uh to the west of the property is uh another uh office uh commercial business.

Um to the north of the property is a residential uh dwelling.

Um and it is zoned as residential, and then of course right here to the east is 700 east.

Um the proposed uh structure is uh is a bar.

It's the uh the break bar located here.

Um parking lot up on the north, um, as well as access to the rear of the property, dumpster, um, and then uh uh crosswalk and uh some pedestrian considerations here that connect to the sidewalk and to the uh entrance of the building.

Um to go over some of the just the parking.

Um so for a uh for a bar establishment according to Draper City Code.

Um a building the size that they're proposing would require anywhere between 35 to 42 stalls.

What they're proposing is 38, which complies with ordinance.

Um I mentioned they did provide some pedestrian connectivity to the streets and the uh sidewalk.

Um that complies with ordinance.

Um the crosswalk.

Um it's made of a different or requires that it's made of a different material from parking lot.

Um they're proposing the concrete crosswalk, and that complies with ordinance.

Um cross access is required.

They are seeking a cross access deviation, and I'll I'll get to that in a minute here in the presentation.

Where the cross access would be would be to the property property to the south.

Um here is their landscape plan.

Here's the up close.

Um they have provided um adequate landscaping for the property.

Um Draper City Code requires 20% um landscape coverage.

Draper City Code requires 20% landscape coverage.

What they're proposing is 22%, so that does comply with ordinance.

Their parking lot landscaping Draper City Code requires 7%.

They're required, they're providing 8%, which complies.

This will require a buffer.

So Draper City Code requires a minimum 20-foot landscape buffer with a six-foot fence or a minimum 10-foot landscape buffer with an eight uh an eight-foot fence.

Instead, they have uh it's just under 20 between 18 and 19 feet.

Um it would require a an eight-foot fence along the north.

What they've proposed was a six-foot fence, um, which does not comply with that ordinance.

So, as a condition of approval, um, we're recommending that an eight-foot fence be installed.

I did talk to the applicant about this as well and made him aware of this.

Uh here's the architectural plans.

Um there's um three different, it's kind of hard to notice here, but there's well, the the building is primarily made of brick, um, so it doesn't require any secondary materials per draper city code, however, it does require three colors.

There are three different brick colors.

Um, and the third one is harder to detect um from this slide, but along here it's a different darker gray and a different texture as well.

And screening, these are cedar planks up here that will screen the um uh machinery on top of the on the roof.

Um here is their photometric plan and an after hours plan.

There were a couple of issues with this as well.

Um I did talk to the applicant about this.

Um, but I'll go over these with you.

So with many of the requirements, they do comply.

There are two uh that need to be corrected.

Um first being that the color of the light pole was not provided in the um in their plans.

Um Draper City Code only allows for a black uh it has to be black unless they present something else to the planning commission and the planning commission may authorize that color.

Um they didn't provide any color, so as a condition of approval um, well, we would add in as a condition of approval that they provide black poles.

And then there's also an issue with the um maximum illumination ratio.

Uh Draper City Code requires two to five point one and two to five point one for after hours.

Their plan showed 9.7 to 1 and 11.5 to 1 after hours, which does not comply with ordinance.

So as a condition of approval, um they would need to bring this into uh um compliance uh with Draper City standards before a permit is issued.

Um so going over those conditions, um it would be that all requirements of the Draper City Engineering Public Works Building, Planning, and Fire Division fire divisions are satisfied throughout the development of the site and the construction of all buildings on the site, including permitting that the site shall be constructed and landscaped in compliance with the approved site plan and landscaping plan, and that the color of the light poles shall be black, and that revised lighting plans and photometric analysis in compliance with ordinance, including the maximum illumination ratio of two to 2.5 to 1 be submitted to planning staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the building permit, um, that an eight-foot masonry wall or a masonry fence be constructed along the north property line, and that updated construction details be provided to planning staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the building permit, and that the property be consolidated through the recording of the previously approved amended subdivision plat prior to the issuance of the required land disturbance permit or building permit.

So per Draper City Code, the planning commission shall approve a deviation from the requirement to provide cross access upon finding that the uh required cross access would result in any of these, any of the criteria listed here.

So the applicant has provided a letter detailing why they believe that a cross access deviation would be appropriate for the property, real quick.

Again, the cross-access deviation would be from their property here to the property here on the south, allowing for vehicles to flow through.

The applicant claims that the cross-access deviation should be allowed due to a significant uh grade change at the south property line, so along here.

Now the applicant did not provide the actual number in terms of percentage because uh it would need to be greater than the 12 percent change in grade.

Um but they did say that it was significant, and number two that the property was not previously designed and required to provide reciprocal cross access to the subject property, as you can see here.

Um it's actually hard to tell from the the aerial, but there is a bit of a grade change here and old cement wall that goes across.

Um based on based upon city code um in my review of this uh I the uh criteria in the cross access deviation um ordinance would be that uh it would result in the slope of the cross access drive exceeding uh 12 percent um and that it was not previously designated and required to provide reciprocal cross access to the subject property.

Here's a site photo.

So this is the uh northeast corner of the property.

Um you can see the the property has since been um demolished and prepared for development.

And that's my presentation.

So Nick, one quick question on the elevation uh for that to you know use that as the reason for the uh uh approval that deviation.

Did you say you have not seen it but they're bringing it tonight or or they so they they did not provide um they did not provide the number in their request um in the letter.

I've checked it independently on my own um and just on my own review.

I found that it it just using the uh the city's GIS that it does exceed 12 percent.

However, the applicant did not provide that information in their so all the other stuff is easy to put on as a conditional, you know, the condition of approval.

But that one, uh, just to say, yeah, we're gonna do that.

We don't know if it's 12 or not, uh it's the only thing that I noticed, but I just wanted to ask if you had that.

We'll go we'll work through it up here.

But you you you you've checked it, but we don't have anything official from them.

Yeah, that so that uh they've they've provided no number in their in their submission.

Got it.

Um the only thing that they did say is that it was a significant uh grade change at the south property line.

And is there another way that they could get around that?

Well, it'll that cross access because we've seen we see this quite frequently with an older older property that just had they've never relied on it, they've never used it, and then something new comes in and they're kind of burdened, if you will, by having to gross access and just kind of you know, they want to put their power box there, or they want to put a you know curb or landscaping.

I I think the most appropriate of the um criteria in in uh in the deviation is uh D1 that it was not previously designated and required to provide reciprocal cross access to the subject property, and as you can tell um from this property here, when this this when these lots were developed, it does not appear that they were developed to provide any cross access.

And it I mean, even by providing it, you could see it could cause problems with this property here.

Yeah.

So I think of the criteria, the uh D1 is probably the most appropriate.

Okay.

I I have a question.

Sure.

Um do we know that for sure that no draper laws or state laws prevent uh an establishment serving alcohol next to a uh residence?

Um so that wouldn't go through planning, that would go through their licensing um process process.

So they would be required to do all their their proper licensing before they could run run a bar.

So in terms of where I mean how close they are to other properties and other types of uses.

I uh I wouldn't feel authorized to to comment on that.

So I will say city council has already provided local consent for the bar establishment.

Oh so they do have that approval.

Oh I don't remember what the distancing standards are, but they passed because we we did take it to council and they did get approved.

Okay, well that's great to hear.

Thank you.

Um I would also add that uh alcohol laws in the state of Utah are so broadly occupying the field that there leave leaves little to no regulation possible for the city.

It's almost entirely preempted.

What regulation the city can have for alcohol establishments?

The city's already gone through the process and everything's passed.

Okay.

And then on the uh that brings me to the residents that's so see this red lot line here to the north.

So is that is that a roof line right there for like right up against the property line?

Yes, it is.

Okay.

Well, we'll talk to the applicant about that fence then and go from there.

Any other questions for staff?

I have just a c comment, I guess.

Um, and I spoke with a couple of the staff about this.

Can you explain just kind of briefly go over the drive approach widths being substandard per city code, meaning less, I mean they're 16 to 17 feet less than normal, which is 2426, and the spacing just so it's clear and I understand that it's a U dot road, but I think it would be good to have that just on the record.

Yeah, I'll let Brian speak to that.

Uh you or Brian, either way.

Yes.

So the site does have two accesses.

Um typically on a site of this size, that'd be a single access.

Where 700 East is a U dot street.

Um had an independent review of this and did approve the two access points on the condition that they extend the center island.

That's existing in seventh east northward to extend past the two access points.

Now the site is going to function as a single access in, single ingress and single egress.

So that's what allows for the narrower access widths is the fact that really there shouldn't be vehicles passing on the way in and on the way out.

But we've reviewed it.

It does meet standards, so it's not out of compliance with any code.

It's just that this is just a little bit of an unusual situation that the UDOT has agreed to to allow.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Nick.

Thanks.

All right, let's go ahead and invite the applicant up.

Is he here?

Or are they here?

Hi there.

Come on down.

You can both state your names and add anything you'd like to that presentation, then we'll have some questions for you, I'm sure.

Go ahead.

Gary Knapp with JZW architects.

Mike Colligan with Aspen General Contracting representing the owner.

Hi guys.

So a couple quick questions, I'm sure.

I have one on the elevation on the south elevation.

Uh this is right up your alley here with architectural.

Are those garage doors that can be opened?

They look like they extend all the way down.

So there's three big window bays there.

Are those are those garage sliders?

Keep going.

No, there's no one.

I think there's one more of those right there.

Excuse me, four window bays.

Those are just those are fixed fixed glasses.

So no, there actually are no garage doors there.

This is actually an older rendering.

I'm not sure we did send it in there, but this is not the most current one.

The current one has storefront here and no garage doors.

Got it.

But those were to be garage doors, correct?

And this in this rendering right here?

Originally.

And that's what they look like to me because they send them to the other.

They were gonna be garage doors, but on our latest, we're we're taking those off.

Okay.

So do you want to how do we approve a site plan with the with the wrong elevations?

This this was not actually in the report.

It was only this page here.

Got it.

Yeah.

And that that's fine.

I just asked just for um, especially if those were garage doors and they're on the south side versus the north side, right?

It'd be what wise those will just pop open and then the noise can come right out there.

But that's I mean the south side's all commercial, so now I'm hearing they're not garage doors, so that's fine too.

So I'll withdraw my question.

How's that?

Perfect.

So question answer, no garage doors.

But again, take note, right?

That that's that we've got a we've got a different elevation here and then it'll be approved.

Uh any other questions for the staff or for the uh applicant, excuse me.

Um the elevation for the deviation, the cross access deviation.

Have you either of you measured that?

I actually uh just got a text.

Um it's 28 inches.

Okay.

On a vertical between lots elevations.

Wow.

Um yeah, it's pretty significant.

Yeah.

And there's like Nick said, there's a concrete retaining wall there that is holding the soil back on our site to make that difference, and then it steps down to the neighboring lot on the south.

Can someone do the math?

Is that more than twelve percent?

You don't want to do the math.

Somebody I went to law school, not uh I didn't go become an accountant for a reason.

We'll consult the engineer.

Okay.

We'll let them work on that.

Um you saw that there's a couple of conditions for approval, right?

That we've got the uh eight-foot fence, not the six foot.

We've got what were the other ones?

Light pole color, and then it looks like your illumination is too bright, correct?

There's too much light pollution.

Is that what we saw?

Like it's like it's in the nines when it should start with the two.

Oh, yeah.

Is that is that what I saw?

The maximum illumination there.

Yeah.

Yeah, at the bottom, last one.

Yeah, at the bottom one.

At the bottom, the the ratios are off.

I mean, lighting's great, it's just you know, with what's in respect to what's around you.

Um that that's uh wouldn't you agree, commissioners, that that's pretty much what we're taking into account here is what staff's recommended.

Yeah, as far as their conditions, yeah.

So just be aware that those will be those will be what we take into account.

Any other questions?

Okay, all right, we'll let you be seated.

It's a public hearing, so we'll let the public have at it, and then we'll bring you back up if we need to, okay.

Thank you.

All right, this is a public hearing.

We'll have a couple of these tonight, and the way these will go.

If you haven't been here before, that's okay.

That means you have a life and you're out doing fun things.

But if this is your first time, what we have is a uh three minute limit on public comment.

Uh we've got a nice little red timer up there.

You're welcome to come up at this time and address this agenda item.

Uh you can speak as uh as long as you want as long as it's under the three minutes.

You don't have to fill the whole time either.

So who would like to address this agenda item with those guidelines and rules?

Nobody.

All right, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.

All right, commissioners.

What are your thoughts on there?

There's been a couple conditions that have been pointed out that I think are well thought out.

And yeah, I'm really grateful for the work that uh Nick's done on this.

This is really good details, and it's uh very clear for us.

Um so I'm ready to make a motion on the deviation.

Does anybody have any comments on that?

Or I think it's appropriate.

Brian, did you do the calculation?

Yeah, that it does it, it exceeds the maximum slope allowed.

So it is a significant drop between the two sites.

Thank you.

Okay, then I'll make that motion.

Yeah, go ahead.

Um, I move that uh we approve the cross access deviation is requested by Gary Knapp representing LM restaurant group LC application number 2025-0271-VAR based on the following findings.

Finding for approval listed in the staff report dated February 13, 2026.

Um, and the request meets the criteria for the deviation as described in the um draper code.

Great, thanks for that motion, Lisa.

Who will second it?

I'll second.

Thanks, Mary.

So let's go ahead and put this to a vote then.

This for approval of the deviation for the the cross access.

So let's start with you.

Lisa have taken a vote on that.

Oh, yeah, just for clarification.

There's a typo on the um findings for approval, and it's got the wrong section of code in there.

So just a point of clarification that the findings, the section is nine-25-080 subsection E2 D1.

Just to clarify that.

Great.

So we'll go ahead and just the motion will stand with that clarification on the code as just uh read into the record.

Sound fair?

Yes, thanks, Tracy.

Thanks for calling that out, Tracy.

Okay, so back to the motion from Lisa that's been seconded by Mary.

Let's go ahead and put this to a vote.

This is for approval of the cross access deviation.

Lisa, how do you vote?

Yes.

Mary?

Yes.

Laura?

Yes.

Susan?

Yes.

And Kendra.

Yes.

All right.

Next one, site plan.

I'll make a motion if if there's no further discussion.

I move we approve the site plan as requested by Gary Knapp representing LM Restaurant Group, LC application number 2024-0356-SP based on the following findings for approval and subject to the conditions listed in the staff report dated February 13th, 2026.

And there are five findings for approval listed.

And those are all included in the motion.

Got it.

Thanks for that.

Or oh well, there's five findings.

I see five findings.

There they are.

Okay.

Yeah, see I see the and then the six conditions.

There's findings, the conditions are above it, correct?

Correct.

The conditions.

So the sit yeah.

Oh, yes.

And the conditions are yes.

In the in the such as the eight-foot fence and the and the lighting, et cetera.

Those are listed in the staff report, though, right?

So they've already done.

We just check through there.

It goes, I'm just verifying it.

Looks at the illumination.

Yep.

And it also looks at the color of the light bulb.

That'll be black.

So I think we're good.

And there are, yeah, the same six that are listed on the screen.

Perfect.

Okay, good.

So we've got that motion that stands for Mary, correct?

Okay, who will second it?

I'll second that.

Thank you, Kendra.

Okay, let's put this one to a vote.

This is for approval of the site plan with conditions and findings as listed in the staff report.

So let's start with you, Mary.

How do you vote?

Yes.

Kendra?

Yes.

Susan?

Yes.

Lisa?

Yes.

And Laura.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Congrats on that.

And then uh good luck with that fence.

Maybe go eight and a quarter, right?

So you just keep a nice barrier between that residence.

So just give it a little extra gusto, but that's I didn't say that.

But thanks.

Welcome to Draper.

We're happy to have you.

All right, let's go ahead and move on to the next uh public hearing that we've got.

It's the Jones Lawn Mowing LLC.

It's just a home occupation conditional use permit request.

And it's on behalf of Naaman Jones representing Jones Lawn Mnowing LLC.

It's a request for approval of a home occupation conditional use permit on approximately 0.34 acres, and it's located at 191 East Brown's Loop Way.

It's known as application 2025-0273-USE.

And again, Nick Whitaker is our staff contact.

So go ahead, Nick.

Thank you.

So yes, this is the Jones Lawn Knowing LLC home occupation conditional use permit request.

Here is a vicinity map.

The property there is in blue in the middle.

Here's an aerial map of the subject property.

As you can see, it's a corner lot.

The entry to the home faces the south.

The garage is loaded on the uh east side.

Um I will note that uh the um driveway exceeds the um the maximum uh driveway width, and I will get to that uh in my um presentation.

Uh land use map.

So uh the land use for this property or the designated land use is uh residential medium density zoning, it's an RE2 in the RE2 zone.

Um so real quick, just kind of a synopsis of what the um uh what the applicant does in terms of business is they provide a lawn mowing service.

Um they have uh all their equipment is kept at the property.

Um here's the site plan.

Uh the the uh the equipment is kept in the third car garage, and that includes a trailer and uh approximately I believe it's 207 square feet total of storage space used to store the equipment, lawn mowers, uh things like that.

Um on the driveway, there is a dumpster.

It is in this area right here.

The applicant has provided screening for this dumpster.

Uh it's a vinyl fence, six feet in height.

Um since this is a corner lot where this is located, actually, it wouldn't be considered front yard fencing, so he wouldn't need a conditional use permit to have the six-foot um screening around the dumpster.

Um the applicant does have two employees who come to the home uh to meet the uh um to meet up there and then they go to their sites to to mow lawns.

The applicant has provided two off-street parking stalls for their vehicles.

Um then in addition, the applicant does have a uh a vehicle that he uses for both personal and um business uses that he uh parks on the driveway.

Uh here is the floor plan.

Um utilizes a uh a very small uh 13 uh 13 feet by six feet uh space in the uh within his home to do business administration for his business.

Here is the driveway compliance issue that I'd touched on earlier.

And the applicant is actually that's the time of this picture, he's actively working on cutting this back, as you can see.

So City Code allows for a maximum of 30 feet in width where it touches the the back of the sidewalk.

Um the applicant exceeds that.

Um so he's cutting that back.

So as a condition of approval um we've added that in that it be that his driveway be brought into compliance, especially since he's utilizing this driveway for his business.

This is the area where his uh employees park their vehicles so the identified potential impacts are employees coming to the home and associated traffic, um, business vehicles parked on the street, as well as employee vehicles, um, noticeable storing of inventory and supplies in the yard area, as well as keeping a dumpster at the property.

Um the proposed mitigation is that all requirements of the Draper City Engineering, Public Works Building, Planning, and Fire Divisions are satisfied, um, that a Draper City business license shall be obtained, that no customers shall come to the home, that no customers that ended up on there twice.

I apologize.

No customers come to the home.

Um, and that the business shall be limited to a maximum of two non-resident employees, and that the employees park their vehicles in the designated off-street parking stalls as shown in the site plan.

Um that the storage of all inventory supplies and equipment shall be located inside of the third car garage, and that the dumpster shall be screened and the lid closed except when being filled or emptied, and that the dumpster shall be maintained at all times and properly emptied at least once a week, and that the business or uh business operations shall not create any of the nuisances listed in uh DCMC section 9-34-040 G, and that the applicant shall bring their uh driveway into compliance by reducing the width to no more than 30 feet.

So here's a uh photo of the south side of the property and the east side of the property, and as you can see, this right here is where the dumpster is and is fully screened by a final fence that matches the property's fence.

And that's uh my presentation.

Nick, will you go back to the picture just before this slide?

Yeah, right here.

Um where are you measuring width of a driveway?

Is it on the cut face or the cut portion of the uh curb?

Or where are you how do you measure it?

So it's it's from where it essentially where it touches the property line, which in this case would be the back of the sidewalk here.

So we'd measure it from here uh here going this going this way would be north, so heading this way until we hit 30 feet, at which point anything beyond that is uh non-compliant.

However, the code doesn't uh specify how much it needs to be cut back from the property line, just as long as it's not so you're so you're just making him cut a two-inch gap between that sidewalk and the well and and the driveway, the extended parking.

His site plan shows more than two.

Okay, fine, okay.

I mean, it would be compliant, right?

I mean, yeah.

So you're not counting the part where the employees park.

That doesn't count in it, right?

Yeah, you're saying that but that employee parking is butting up against the sidewalk.

There's got to be a gap between the sidewalk.

He's got too long of a run of cement to cement, cement to sidewalk.

Yeah.

So it is if it's touching, if there's the sidewalk here, then it is not compliant based upon our code.

So if it's cut back, then these then the uh employees can park their vehicles here.

I mean, I mean this is what this area is being used for is for the employees to park their vehicles, the two vehicles here, and to store the dumpster up there.

So it's just that parking space, the spar parking area of cement that can't touch the sidewalk.

That's that's the bottom line.

Yeah, I it's it's just the width can't exceed 30 feet.

So yeah, if that's a way to look at it, yes, is something you'd hardly see.

It's just this is a corner law that I know.

So I'm just thinking about my neighborhood too.

How people put the side, you know, the side driveways on and all that sort of thing.

You'll you'll notice in a lot of neighborhoods how you many driveways kind of taper out.

Um that's the reason you typically the reason why is to get around that piece of code.

Got it.

So is there a maximum width anywhere in our code?

Or is it all about just touching the sidewalk?

Well, so maybe you pull this up here.

I mean it just seems like a I get the distinction, but in a case like this, we're looking at kind of a ridiculous application.

So and and I I get we gotta do what we gotta do.

We've got the code that's in front of us, but um, I'm just curious if there's a maximum somewhere, or as long as it doesn't touch the sidewalk, somebody's driveway can go as wide as they'd like.

So the the code doesn't specify it, it's all the code specifies is the width that the width is can't exceed 30 feet, how they how they go about achieving that beyond 30 feet.

So the width at the sidewalk can't exceed 30 feet.

Sidewalk with the proper driveway.

Typically the proper I mean typically the sidewalk, but it's that's where he's saying that on some residences you'll see the driveway here, and then they have the force.

But that's my we're gonna open up the code.

It does show some, yeah, it does have some images in the code for for driveway.

Well you can you can go back to his uh site plan too, and if that's a condition of approval, you can look at his site plan too.

It looked like quite a bit bigger gap.

And then we'll we'll ask the applicant, we can just ask him while they're up here too if they're gonna plan out the right.

And as long as it's compliant, like if staff deems it compliant, I'm fine with that.

I'm just curious what the text of the code says, I guess.

So can you throw gravel in there or pavers?

I mean what what code doesn't specify?

Sweet.

Okay.

Yeah, so often with driveways you'll see where you have your main driveway to the garage and then side driveways to kind of angle up.

Yep.

That's that's because they can't just bring it to the to the full sidewalk.

Right.

And then people usually fill it in with gravel and pavers and everything.

It's an incident.

Is the point though that we only want so much entryway, like you know, there's variability to the height of the curb for the entrance to the driveway.

And is I don't know, maybe the reasoning doesn't matter.

Is it so we don't have these big long rounds of just curb cut driveways that are just the whole thing?

Yes, the whole sewer or water runoff curb goes away and it's uh replaced with just a large curb cut.

So this is helpful.

Thank you.

This is yeah, we've never well the closest one to this is that that uh applicant that came in and wanted to park a whole landing landing strip, right?

Of trailers.

It's all the way back down his side lot.

Remember that?

And that was not even sidewalk.

I think that was like a trail, like an asphalt trail system that they had there.

So over by Juan Diego.

Yeah.

So here we go.

So it's all about access to the driveway.

Not the width of the actual driveway.

So once it, yeah.

So once it's on their property, um we're not so concerned about the width of the concrete.

I mean, there are some landscaping standards, things like that that the proposed driveway doesn't impact.

Right.

Um, it's more the the goal is to limit how many driveway accesses there are on the street, how wide they are, that kind of thing.

Okay.

That makes sense.

Thank you.

That is actually very helpful.

And while we're talking to the applicant, will you just pull up their site plan that they've submitted with the little colored blocks on it?

And we'll go from there.

I think that'll be helpful to have up while we're quite while we're asking some questions.

Anything unspecified.

So the code doesn't call out materials that must be used or anything like that.

So it's I I would I would defer to Todd or Jen on that question.

Landscaping.

Well, landscape material.

If you look at his site plan, if you look at his site plan right there, you can see where the word dumpster is that runs parallel with the end of the driveway, right?

There's your 30 feet, what have you.

And then he's got quite a bigger gap in there.

So we'll just ask him when he comes when when they come up, okay.

We'll just but if you'll leave this up, that'll be great.

So how many inches did you say two?

Is it doesn't say well, right?

But somebody gave him some instruction, right?

He's got to cut it.

I mean, like I said, and then somebody looks at it and says looks good.

Again, let's add let's ask him if that picture we saw is done or okay.

And to heaven forbid can't touch that sidewalk.

All right, anything else for staff?

Yeah, I have a quote.

Go ahead, Susan.

So um one of the conditions does say that the equipment, etc.

needs to be stored inside the third car garage.

And there is a trailer.

It doesn't specify that the trailer has to be parked in the third card garage.

It says all the equipment and blah blah blah.

Um I'm wondering if we because when I drove by there yesterday, the trailer was parked on the street.

Um I'm assuming it was his trailer because it was in front of his house, and maybe it was somebody else's, I don't know.

But I'm just wondering if that if we should make that as part of the condition with including the trailer, because it just says equipment, blah, blah, blah.

It doesn't say trailer.

Well, yeah, that's the question, I guess, right?

Yes.

Is the trailer equipped?

Right.

I think maybe you had to specify that trailer included or whatever.

You know what?

I I I just reviewed uh condition number seven where that should be mentioned.

Um and it's it's not in there, so I I wouldn't mind uh modifying that condition to include that at all.

Um to include the the trailer in that.

Because I think that's the intent, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, okay so let's make sure one of when a motion's made that we add that condition.

Okay.

Right.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you.

So I have a question about the dumpster.

I have been here a long time, and I don't know that I've ever seen a dumpster on a home occupation permit.

Um does the staff have anything to add to that request.

I well, go ahead.

It is um it is not something common.

Um however they are uh by by providing screening around the dumpster.

Uh they are following code uh to to have that dumpster.

Um I mean, really as long as it's screened, that's that's all that's otherwise and as mentioned the smell.

Right.

And that yeah, and that would go into you know nuisances.

So I mean if it does create smells, or if if uh you know maintaining it create creates noises or uh you know that vibrations from uh dump uh dump trucks coming to pick it up and so on and so forth.

I mean that could be an issue.

So it would be the applicant's responsibility to maintain that dumpster, so it's not creating any of those issues.

So obviously it's not disallowed explicitly in our code.

That's correct, so long as it's screened.

Just for even a residence, just a residence, not even a uh home occupation, right?

Right.

There you go, Mary.

We can have dumpsters and you want to give a little bit of water answer.

I can have my own dumpster.

I'd barely fill up two trash cans, all kinds of new things tonight.

I have a bit to add to that answer.

Okay, thank you.

So a home occupation conditional use permit is uh the the idea behind it is are we going to allow businesses in residential areas?

And what we're trying to do is look at the disturbance of the residential area by the business and and see what type of changes to the residential feel and nature of the neighborhood there will be by virtue of the business being there.

And then what you're trying to do with the planning commission is look at those detrimental effects and see if conditions can be imposed to mitigate those detrimental effects.

Um so that is something that you probably should be taking to a into account when you're making your findings.

Um when you're making your decision, we would hope that you would look at those those very broad concepts that are applicable to every home occupation conditional use permit.

Thank you.

Well, and there have been times in the past where maybe a time in the past where a permit was denied when it will there was a there was something proposed that wasn't explicitly forbidden in the code, and yet we came to a determination that it would it was problematic because it wasn't appropriate for a home occupation.

So I don't know, it's kind of the first thing I thought of when I saw dumpster, but I'm willing to listen and see what we hear and then make a decision.

Are you thinking of the welding tanks that were in the Oh no, I was thinking of the forklift.

Oh yeah, with it beeping around the bee deep in the in the back lot.

Interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember that too.

But I forgot about those, yeah.

Yeah.

And the wilding.

Yeah.

Well, we'll talk about that, so that'll that'll be good.

Thanks for clarifying all that.

That you may or may not you may be able to have a dumpster as long as you're not a nuisance.

All right.

Well, this is uh let's let's go ahead and thanks for the staff and all your input on that.

Let's go ahead and buy the applicant up.

Is the applicant here?

Hi, come on down, and if you just state your name, and then you can add anything to that presentation that you'd like.

You can kind of see some of the questions we've got, but we'll have some for you as well.

Yes, thank you.

Uh I am Naiman Jones.

Um this is my residence.

Um first uh re regarding the driveway width.

Uh what what you'd seen is 29 and a half feet wide, which was uh which was originally there.

Uh the approach to the uh to the driveway uh was was existing when we bought the home.

Uh and that is also 29 and a half feet.

Uh when I when I did learn that I could not be touching the city sidewalk, I I had that cut off.

Um to the north, just uh uh where it says the the parking area, uh back behind the gate, there is a 12 feet wide by 39 foot long uh RV pad which has my uh I've got a uh smaller trailer that I use for my four-wheeler and also for uh uh loads when I do cleanups, and also an enclosed uh personal trailer that I keep emergency preparedness in.

The the trailer that was seen the other day on a drive-by is not my trailer.

I I know whose it is, I can ask to have it moved or whatever, but that was not my trailer.

Um as far as uh the the trailer being in the garage, uh it's it's easier to to just uh back my trailer up into the garage with all my equipment uh in it instead of unloading and loading up every day.

That way I I can just hook up and leave.

And you know, and then I'm I'm not uh I I'm not in the area for an extended amount of time.

Just uh, you know, I I can hook up and go and be ready at that.

So you do have a trailer that goes that is associated associated with the lawn mowing equipment, right?

Yes, yes.

All of my equipment is in the trailer, and and and uh and that's that's why it stays in the garage, is is because that's it's uh the the equipment is is quite expensive, and so it stays locked up overnight.

Okay, thanks.

Perfect.

Um I I had a quick question just on the layout of everything.

So the office, if you can go to the next picture that just shows the screen dumpster, the actual photo.

Yes.

Um so you're there's one more right there.

So is that little window?

So I I envisioned this differently that the three car or the two-car garage was to the to the front of the house, but it looks like so.

You've got cars parked in the single car garage, you've got cars parked in in where that white truck is, and then would it be safe to say that just that that storage space in that garage is for that trailer that you just described?

That would go right there.

Yes, and is that small window your office space?

Is that access through the garage door?

That would be office space.

Uh that's actually that that's actually my laundry room.

Um all of my all of my administrative uh issues can be done on a laptop computer.

And and it's it's in that area that I have my printer.

And then the bigger window there to the back of the house, that's part of the residence, right?

Just to get the layout.

Okay.

And then this gate that you're showing here over by the wheelbarrow behind that, I can see your enclosed trailer, etc.

That's where all those personal use trailers are, correct?

Yes.

Okay, that is uh the the uh the enclosed trailer again is my emergency preparedness trailer.

Got it.

Uh the the other trailer is is not seen.

And I like how you've got the cars coming in, you know, from the driveway and then parking this way instead of uh positioned, but they're coming up over that curb.

Um uh is the cut that we saw, is that the finished product?

Is that what we're what we're ending up with?

Are you cutting that even wider?

Uh no, I I'm not cutting it wider because I I was told that it that uh because that's compliant you just didn't have to touch.

Uh the the idea is to put uh road base and and and chat.

Chat is is real fine uh umpressed gravel.

Just so that it doesn't touch.

Perfect.

Yeah, there you go, guys.

So it's totally compliant.

Making the good the good citizens draper go to the expense of putting some chat in there, so that's great.

If all right, I don't have any other further questions on that stuff.

That well, the dumpster, Mary, you have questions about the dumpster?

Like the that that is yeah, tell us about the dumpster uh pickup and removal.

Is that the same we would see uh like a school or uh an office building?

Is it a full-on garbage truck that dumps the dumpster up there?

There's a garbage truck that comes in four four times a week so as to avoid over you know overfilling it uh to avoid smells uh four times.

Four times a week.

Yes.

Wow, yes.

Um it's it's in and out within about five minutes.

In fact, uh there's there's a one of my neighbors asked me how often, you know, how often does it get dumped in one?

I told him he he was astonished because he's never never seen it, and he lives just right across the street.

That surprised me too.

I'm curious approximately what time of day it comes.

The uh the the truck that dumps the dumpster comes after nine o'clock, generally around 10 30, 11 o'clock in the morning during normal business hours.

When you say dumps the dumpster, is it emptying the dumpster that's there or bringing you a new one taking the old one?

Emptying the dumpster that is.

Okay, so it's the same dumpster that stays there.

Same dumpster that sees there, yes.

You can tell that's probably our biggest concern.

That's that uh Mary's right to flag that.

That's probably the biggest identifier of this is not a residential service, right?

To have a dumpster come in there.

Um it's yeah, it's amazing that the neighbors haven't heard that because when the dumpsters are getting emptied at our school, it sounds like the uh Camp Williams is shooting off their their can't their tanks over there.

It it just I mean I've the there is uh it just doesn't doesn't really make any any noise, it's it's just in and out really quickly.

I've I've been in plenty of hotels and apartments around dumpsters and not even that close, and you hear it.

You hear the beeping of the backing up, you hear the noise connecting to the dumpster, dumping, putting it back on the ground.

I mean, it's a very loud process.

So I I will tell you right now that for me at least is a problem.

Um I I am open to hearing the neighbors' perspective.

Yeah.

I am also curious what kind of waste you're putting in the dumpster.

Uh basically it's lawn clippings.

Long clippings and leaves, yes.

So I'm almost wondering if it's more of a nuisance to have that.

So you've got the smell, and he's trying to evade the smell by with four yeah, the all the debris that goes in is in plastic bags.

And does it do you fill it or mostly fill it every single day?

Yes.

Is that why you'd get it?

That's why it's four times.

Yeah, that's why it's four times a week.

Yes.

Because I was almost hoping that if it's just the smell that you could just cut that down to once a week like garbage.

Having the dumpster, if if if I didn't have the dumpster, I would need 20 to 30 city garbage cans, but maybe even more.

And on, you know, it would it would have the have to have the city come and get that would be a lot more inconvenient.

That's our point is that it's not uh it's a residence, and so you can't do that.

Yeah, you're gonna be doing a lot of commercial dumps than to just have the the uh dumpster truck come in and get it.

For your business, that is the the better route for sure.

But what we're look looking at here is appropriateness for a neighborhood and uh a dumpster that fills up and needs emptying four times a week is for me problematic.

So um and when we get to the point where we have things that are so problematic that we can't mitigate, that's a good sign that you need a commercial property.

Or oh that's a signal.

Um I won't make any definitive statements, but I think that's the point of why we're reviewing this.

And I think that's consistent with some of the public comment we've received.

Because your business is functioning right now out of your home, correct?

Yes.

Just haven't had a a permit.

Yeah.

Public comment.

Have you seen letters?

Yes.

Are there letters?

We got some emails this afternoon.

Yes.

Uh I I would like to address that.

The uh the the uh during this last season, uh there was an issue with one of my dumpster where the dumpster needed to be replaced.

And and the what where that complaint came from was during that replacement process on on just one day.

It was a lot earlier than what I expected.

Umfortunately, the the the truck had brought the the wrong replacement and and just during that process of of getting the uh getting the old dumpster out and the new dumpster in, we was when there was that uh that issue, that concern from the neighbor.

Have you have you this just a thought?

Have you ever you're paying for this dumpster anyway?

And you is there have you ever thought of actually just moving this dumpster or or giving this dumpster a home at an agreement that you make with a commercial office building or something of that nature?

I mean, obviously, you know, the offices don't want people dumping in their dumpster because they have to pay for that removal, etc.

Have you ever looked into just saying, hey, can I just you know pay for my dumpster and your dumpster and let my dumpster sit here and get removed four times a week and have your employees then empty into that dumpster that may be somewhere here in town, but at a commercial site.

Have you ever looked into anything like that?

I have not.

Uh I I do uh service for Jensen uh companies that's just on Minutemen.

Uh yeah, basically just to the west of me.

Um I I can ask them.

If you're paying for this service, we we don't mind that you're doing it, and you're being a respectful neighbor to the I mean and logistically I can see how this works, right?

The guys either have to go out to the dump and go dump a load at the dump, and that's uh you know, two hours every day, one hour out, one hour back, or if you go to one of these Jensen companies and just say, Look, can I just set my dumpster here next to yours?

Obviously, I pay for it, it'll get dumped, you know, four times a week at your expense, not theirs, and then whatever you work out to rent that space, that might be something that might mitigate so that he can still run this out of his house, but just just relocate that dumpster.

So just something to think about as we talk through this, and what this is a public hearing, so after we're done with you, we'll let the public uh, if they're here, we'll let we'll get their input, then we'll invite you back up.

All right, and then we'll go from there.

Is that sound fair?

Yes, it does.

Okay, perfect.

Anything else you want to add right now?

Uh no, not unless there's any other questions.

What size of the truck is this dumpster?

Uh this garden struck up.

I can imagine the draper one, but I wouldn't have to do that.

No, no, it's it's it's it's a it's a four-yard dumpster, uh, which basically it uh the the back of it is is about five feet tall.

The the front is about four and a half, and it it fits in that uh can uh in that fenced area, which is uh seven and a half feet wide and seven, maybe seven, six and a half feet deep.

You're asking the size of the truck.

Yeah, the truck that comes to the city.

Oh, the the truck.

The uh the truck is a regular truck that grabs the dumpsters.

Like a big garbage truck, yeah, like the two forks and then just dumps it overhead.

And he's he's he's on my driveway when it gets emptied.

So he's he's not backing out into the road and then coming in and backing out again.

He's he's in dumping, dropping and and uh and then back out and go.

So he pulls in forward facing is that what you're saying, then dumps and then backs.

Yes, that's correct.

Okay, thanks.

Um, can I ask about employees?

How many employees do you have?

Uh there are approximately eight employees.

Uh the the two that would be at the house, uh they they're on my weeding crew, and I uh and so basically they they would they would park at the on the cement there and take my other truck to do that.

The the other employees are I I pick them up at a different location.

And so I don't have any employees parked on the street.

Um I I know that that that has been a concern.

Um there are a lot of uh a lot of cars on the road.

Those are people's personal cars, those aren't my business cars.

Is there enough parking for your family, or are they displaced, or people who live at the home, or are they displaced, their parking spots displaced by your employees' parking?

No.

No, no, they're the the uh the parking spots are not displaced, or the or my family is not displaced by the employees.

And your family is allowed to park on the street, so we're not here to try and um you know control anything to do with that behavior, but okay, I'm just curious.

Thanks.

All right, all right.

It looks that that's it for now.

We'll invite you back up.

Thanks, Damon.

All right, this is a public hearing as before, so we'll open this agenda item up to public comment.

Who would like to address this agenda item?

You can come up and take your three minutes.

And if you'll just state your name.

Hi, my name is Shalise Benjamin, and I actually live right across the street from him, and I'm there every day.

And I hear the dumpster, and it's just fine.

It's just like your garbage man that comes every week.

And the one the private lane, they have a the guy, he reverses back, goes and gets the garbage, takes off.

It's the same.

So I don't have a problem with the dumpster, it doesn't have any smell.

These guys have been great neighbors, and this is his livelihood.

I would feel so bad if this affected their income.

I mean, put yourself in that position.

The dumpster's not an issue.

So and I know the majority around me that's right across the street in the little alley.

We all feel the same.

So that's what I have to say about the dumpster.

Great, thank you.

All right, anyone else?

I think if you just state your name, hi.

Thank you, counsel.

Sorry.

Wrong meeting.

Commission.

Uh my name's Sean Benjamin.

I uh also live across the street.

That's my wife.

Uh I'm at 192 East Browns Loop Way.

Uh so and I would really um kind of repeat the sentiment that she expressed.

We we don't have any problem with it.

We we see it, we hear it, it sounds like your normal garbage truck.

I mean, it's no worse than on a Friday when we have uh you know you know garbage and or recycling, and then we've got a private lane right next to us.

I don't know if you can pull up.

Can I ask them to pull up the uh his site plan there?

Um the site plan it directly to the east of him is a great neighbor, the Woodisons.

It's a seven-foot tall brick brick fence that goes the entire length of that site.

It's his backyard.

There's no neighbor on that side of the street, right?

So you can see he's he's got like a trailer, he's got empty lot, he's his house is on the corner.

You know, it's a great property, but there's nobody on that side of the street that's complaining.

In fact, he's not here.

His name's Woodison, last name is Whittison.

And he didn't submit a comment.

My name is Sean Benjamin.

I live directly south of this.

And for me and my part, I've got a car parked right in front.

Google's Google's caught me, right?

That's family.

And to your point, family isn't regulated by the parking requirements in the city.

So the other part of this that I I would like to reinforce is is again that I think the city staff has got it right on the driveway part in terms of not having a maximum.

It's not in the code.

You know, uh, I think it's 910 075, and and the series of exhibits that are in front of that in the code.

They should they specifically show that driveway width fanning out.

And and really the only limitation to that width is at the drive entry, not at the driveway.

And I I gotta say, I you know, I'm I'm a part of a government affairs committee, and I'm spending a whole lot of time up on the hill these days.

And so I work with a lot of legislators and and and see the nuances of code and and the the effects that it has on real people, real families, real communities.

So I can appreciate the position you guys are in and and having to make the decisions that you're making.

My feeling though is if it's not codified, it really the type should go to the runner.

All right.

We're not here to uh diminish people's capacity to earn a living or diminish their capacity to uh be a part of a community that they love.

And and quite frank, we've read some of the emails, and and we just we don't see it.

We're right across the street and we don't see it.

You know, we appreciate these guys.

We've lived here about five years, and in all that time I haven't seen it.

So thank you.

Perfect, thank you.

Anyone else?

All right, we'll go ahead and wrap up our public hearing.

We'll close the public hearing of this time.

Thank you for that.

All right.

Do we need to bring the applicant back up?

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to take a short break to make sure everybody has a chance to review the public comment that we got via email since we have an acknowledgement that not everyone has seen that.

I saw I've read it.

Oh, I look I had seen it.

I've I've read it.

Oh, yes, yeah, we've oh I thought there was it sounded like there was a surprise.

It was just me, Mary.

Okay.

Well, I I read the report yesterday, and so I didn't see this email today.

Yeah, but I've read it.

Okay.

Great.

Well, let's talk about this a little bit.

So uh really the only as mentioned before, uh I would would we agree that the dumpster is the only sticking point?

Everything else has been mitigated.

Parking, employee parking, uh driveway access, driveway length, uh all of that's been been mitigated.

So with the dumpster, um, what is the recourse?

Let's say great, we say yes, it's screened, it meets code, everything, and it just becomes a nuisance, whether it's it's uh smell or which I don't think it'll be, right?

With four foot four four times out of the week.

Probably noise but noise.

What happens, you know, all the neighbors move away, new neighbors are in there, and Mr.

Jones is still making a great living doing his his business and quietly enjoying that, and and a neighbor complains.

What's the recourse?

What happens then here at the city?

Well, it it would be the responsibility then of the neighbor the neighbor who's bothered by the dumpster to contact code enforcement and begin making a record of of these events.

Yeah, um and that's I mean and when that would happen, I mean, it would pretty quickly get to planning and because the property would also be noted to have a home occupation, and we would then review the conditions of their approval.

And if that is in the condition, then I've asked that question before, and the answer is the same, right?

So it's that that's that's the recourse.

So without it being um Mary, I would say that yes, it's allowed by code.

Uh the current neighbors.

It's not disallowed by code, I think it's probably yeah, yeah, that's a better way to put it.

Yeah, it's not disallowed by code because it's been screened, and so at this point, um I don't get a vote, but that's that's kind of that's kind of where I'm at.

And I get it.

And and in a in certain neighborhoods, this one's laid out.

I mean, did you see the properties around it?

It's pretty, it was good to look at that.

They've got um these are huge, huge lots.

And I would almost submit that in tighter neighborhoods like the ones you and I live in, Mary, we would hear the garbage trucks all day because they're going across all four.

Those lots are not that much bigger.

Look, it's right, it's just right there on a little bit.

No, over here, I you know, I take the point that you got a pond over there.

There's not a neighbor to the east, and the neighbor that spoke to us at least to the south.

Yeah, and then we've got the private lane, which has just recently had to go to private trash pickup, right?

Not necessarily dumpster, but an additional garbage truck coming into the neighborhood, probably on a different day than um city trash.

I guess what I'm saying, Mary, is there's uh as the crow flies on a radius around my house, I would have I would have more beep beep and more noise and more garbage can be picked up and put down than probably this neighborhood would experience, even with the four visits, right?

I I did I did think that was excessive, but at the same time.

Um I again I I I don't get a vote, but that's the way I would kind of approach this is to say, you know, as you guys consider this, that's you know, give it a give it a whirl, see what happens with that.

There was that one complaint, right?

And it sounds like it's because they had a new dumpster swapped out.

That's why I was asking if the dumpster swapped out or not every time.

That one was delivering in the morning.

I mean that was not the way it was characterized in the email, I'll say it wasn't a one-time event that um so maybe the applicant should come back up because I I would like to ask you.

Let's talk about that a little bit more because it relates the roadboard.

So Naman, come on up if you would, and then um see this is just the sticking point.

This is it.

You did a great job cutting that two inch swath out.

Nice job on that.

So we know you're a good citizen.

So what can we do about this dumpster?

Yeah, so there's mention of 6 30 a.m.

in one of the emails being uh being a time obviously, I think we all understand the noise.

That was that was when the dumpster got swapped out.

And and and like say, I was surprised that the company came that early to do that.

Okay, well, and I will say that is not how the email characterizes it.

It it says the garbage truck that empties this dumpster shows up at 6 30 a.m.

So the characterization is that that is a on a regular basis.

No, that is not on a regular basis.

Yes, if you would like, I can contact the company and and get a uh time and date of every time they've come over the last year.

We don't need a history, what we need is compliance moving forward, and I think I'm inclined if this were to be approved, I would be inclined to put a time limitation on when the dumpster can come.

I don't, you know, that's something we need to discuss.

All right.

Um so that so that would be during business hours of from nine in the morning till five in the afternoon.

Something like that, yes.

And that's that's normally when when the truck comes.

Well, and so you need to understand that that may to some degree be out of your control, but that's something you need to figure out how to control, because if that is a limitation placed on you on your business, then if it happens once, you're out of compliance.

I understand.

And you're I'm pretty sure the city will hear.

Yes, yes, they will.

On on on the route that the driver does, I'm I'm the either the last one or second to last.

And and usually let like say, usually it's it's after 10 in the morning, uh, most likely before two o'clock in the afternoon.

So it's it's right in the middle of the day.

You know, um the the one issue was when the dumpster was swapped out.

And and that's not that that's a one-time deal.

You know, had had my neighbor come to me and said, hey, what what happened?

I could uh I could have explained it.

Uh unfortunately, I I have some neighbors that would rather not come to me and go to the city to raise their concerns.

Um however, uh yeah, that that was just a one-time thing.

And it's it's extremely out of the normal how realistic is it you would follow the suggestion of putting the dumpster in a business parking lot and having your waste dumped there and paying them.

I I would be able to uh to contact the owners of Jensen companies and speak with them about doing that.

I feel like for me, I kind of share the sentiment of Mary.

I think it's a slippery slope between running a home-based business and invading a residential neighborhood.

And I think you have a right to do everything you want to as a resident in your neighborhood that complies with resident use, but it's kind of gets slippery when we say store a work trailer, have employees park there, use office space in your home and have a commercial dumpster.

Those kind of start to bleed into having a commercial business in your residence that is well beyond what a neighborhood residence is.

And so to me, the biggest sticking point is the dumpster because that is the one thing that no other home-based business that we traditionally approve has that feature.

And so if you could mitigate that by putting it in a nearby commercial business, it seems like you would satisfy all your neighbors' issues.

Yeah, even the the future neighbors.

That that's really what I'm looking at right now.

Is we've got we've got current neighbors are okay, and that's you know, that's fine.

And so, and again, nobody wants to have beef with their neighbors.

I get it, I don't, you don't, nobody wants that.

But if that's a real if that's a real uh fix for this, um do you see that?

I mean, is that is that the same cost to you?

I mean, do you see you know any one of these business partners charging you even more for locating your dumpster there because you're paying for the four pickups anyway, whether it's here or there.

I would have to, I would have to contact that business owner and see if there would be a a cost uh for me to do to do that.

Um you know, when they already have a truck coming, which would be fine.

I I would assume, but I would definitely have to talk with them and see if that was so it would be a little bit.

And what we're faced with tonight then is if we put something like that as a condition, we would be putting that in without you knowing whether you can do it or not.

Um and at the same time, we don't want to bump you, you know, because you've you've paid your application, you've been able to come in here.

What what do you what do you suggest we do with that?

We've never had that where they need to go check on something.

They usually can answer, make the executive decision like yes, I will or I cannot, or I won't, or I I will.

But this one they need to get some outside approval on that.

So we hate to deny it just because there's there's a there's a fix and we hate to uh approve that.

And ask for him to do that research to come back with an answer.

You could do a condition of approval that he uh find an off-site location for his dumpster, and if he is not able to then that division, will that cost him more application fees or anything like that?

We don't want to want it to cost.

It would um with the continuation?

Just to unend.

Not with the continuation.

If he comes back in to amend, it would be a good idea.

That's what I think would be the best solution not to add more cost.

I also point out too that if if he were to outsource his dumpster to another property, that would require creating a dumpster enclosure on another property.

That's a good point too, Nick.

I I do have a question on that.

Yeah.

Uh with with the business, if if I were to put it on a different business, do businesses have to have an enclosure for their dumpsters?

Because I there are businesses around that do not that that are that are in business area.

It's a good question.

We can answer that.

Yeah, we don't can you, Nick?

You should have a dumpster enclosure or dumpster.

Well, our school, the elementary school right next to my house has one for the garbage, and then the recycling one is just blown in the wind.

Along with all with all along with all the cardboard boxes.

Uh dumpster enclosure with uh masonry walls.

I'll see that on commercial property.

On commercial property, but schools aren't commercial on them.

Yeah.

Schools and churches, they can do whatever.

That's right, they can do that.

So that guys, that's a that's a that's a really that's low probability that that'll fly.

Well, I'm uncomfortable with four times a week, and I'm I'm glad he has supportive neighbors here, but um not everyone loves that.

I think I mean we've seen.

Um and I would like to give you an opportunity to see if you can take care of the dumpster since at least two of us, I think are really uncomfortable with a dumpster and four times a week.

When when I was reading the staff report and it was suggesting um once a week as a proposed mitigation.

That's where I was like, you know, I'll be able to do that.

Maybe we could allow, you know, it was really on the fence, but when you said four times a week, I just that just screams at me that this might not be an appropriate home-based business.

So if that one thing could be mitigated, then um I feel like I'd be really comfortable, but I'd like to give you an opportunity to do to do that and see what you can arrange.

But I don't, you know, I don't know how others feel except Laura.

What is the reason for the four times a week?

Is that something that can be reduced without greater impact?

I don't think that that fills up.

I think it's a good thing.

I could possibly reduce that to three times a week.

But uh but with with the four, it's it's it's better for basically it's it's better for the for the the neighbors because it's not sitting there and causing it uh an odor at all.

Yeah, well that's no.

But it does fill up on it on almost a daily basis.

You have enough clippings that it's a daily for odor, it was just that's the that's the volume.

Yeah, odor and the volume, just the volume.

Well, why don't what do you think about the continuance just to see if he can get a handle on it, take a week to figure it out?

Or yeah, a couple weeks, month.

I mean well, just enough that you can still keep working and okay.

The uh I understand that and I can I can do that.

I could I could find out probably in the next probably tomorrow if if that's something feasible and what I can do with the dumpster.

Um my bigger concern is is that my license, my business license, which I've had is being held up because of this.

And I I need to start uh with the uh with with the first aerating and fertilizing applications, and so I I need to have I at least need to have my license so that I can do that.

So I so I'm in compliance with having a license.

And then uh and then and then this uh that the conditional use permit if I could get that you know with the idea that that the dumpster will be gone, that would be let's see how we can work around that real quick just with that.

So can we go to that second option then instead of continuing, just put that on as a condition that uh the applicant will take a certain amount of time, a week, two weeks to relocate the dumpster as a condition of the of the uh home home occupation?

Okay, yeah, you could do that.

Okay, and but you understand if that's what we do and you don't relocate it, you'll be out of compliance and you'll have to come back to either amendments.

Yes, yes, yes, I do understand.

If I cannot find another location for that, I'll just have it taken away and I will have to do something different.

Okay.

If that's a condition that we that's imposed, what's a reasonable time frame for you to be able to estigate that?

Um see, uh there are two to three properties uh that that I work for business properties that I work for right now.

You it would take three or four days to find out if that's available, if that's an option.

So if we said two weeks, two two weeks should be more than plenty.

Okay, cool.

Now uh did does that mean to have to have it move to that location, or does that mean just to have something set in place?

Because the the dumps the dumps right now is empty, and I don't start having that picked up till uh April 1st, April 15th.

That's a good point, too.

You're not even utilizing it at the moment.

No, okay.

No, I it doesn't get utilized uh from November to uh to April.

So I guess I would propose that um before it before it needs to be emptied again, right?

Like so you don't have it out in the April first.

Why don't we just say April 1st?

April 1st.

Yes, I I it doesn't I I I'm not doing any uh any work in that regards right now.

Yeah, you need to do all your spray and pre-season stuff, and that's not long.

So it's just it's just sitting there.

It's been sitting there since I mean it's sitting there empty since November 1st.

Okay.

Or December 1st, maybe.

If we said April 1st, would that give enough time to get it rescheduled on an agenda before his April 15th?

We're just gonna do it now.

So he could the biggest concern is his business license is held hostage here.

And so he needs to do stuff that has nothing to do with this dumpster that's not gonna bother anybody until April 1st ish, right around there.

Yeah.

So I think that's the way we'll we'll go about that.

Okay.

We'll put that uh instead of continuing and all that jazz, we'll just get you, you know, we'll we'll get something pushed forward here.

Yeah.

And Chair Adams, if we could also raise another concern on the staff side, which is because of the uh uh additional information that was given.

You mean no in the conditions that uh it would limit the employees to two?

We're hearing here that there are eight.

So if if you're gonna go ahead and approve that, I would probably suggest that you are you concerned with how many employees total or how many at this point the concern is that the can if you approved it with the condition that they're limited to two and they have eight.

That that was not information we previously had.

But are you guys you guys care who's eight that are coming to the mentioned that the only has to be able to do that?

The information on the on the number of employees was given.

Uh the the the number of employees that come with me, they park at a different location.

I go pick them up.

The the two that would actually come to the house, they would take my other vehicle and and go to a different location.

So what you're saying, Todd is just say that the employees are eight and only two of those are at the home.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's all we're doing, Naman, is we're just gonna get it up to be accurate.

All right, thank you.

So but our our code doesn't limit total employees, it only limits employees that can come in.

No, it actually talks about resident employees and non-resident employees.

However, and that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, so the the condition was to limit non-resident employees to two.

Here's the whether they come to the site or not.

Is that what you're saying, Todd?

Yeah, whether they come to the site or not to the side.

But we do need to indicate those.

So we have to eight employees is eight employees with two coming to site.

Is a huge difference from the typical one or two that we have seen historically.

Well, in code is two, right?

Well, so so code says employees, members of the family of uh I'm sorry, uh members of the family of the owner who reside in the dwelling may be employed in the home occupation, non uh non-family or non-resident employees shall be limited to one person.

So that's what's permitted if you do a home occupation.

So any more than one family or non-resident employees shall be limited to one person.

So any more than that would would need approval.

Even if they're not on site, Nick.

I'm sorry, even if they're not on site ever.

It doesn't say that in the code.

Yeah, why wouldn't it why wouldn't it say that?

Modifying the condition to read that no more than two employees can be on the city.

That's correct, because I can think of plenty circumstances where I've got twelve employees in New Mexico and one that comes to the house to do paperwork.

Okay.

So let's just let's just work, we'll work through that.

That we're still in compliance with code, but let's just make a note of that that only two are at the house.

That's that's uh that's yeah.

I wouldn't I would know we've we've had other home occupations with non-resident employees in right larger numbers, but they're not coming to the home.

Right.

Just wanted to make sure that that was clear on the condition.

Yes.

Yes.

So it looks like uh you know what, we'll give your legs a break, and thank you for being up here.

So we'll kind of hash this out, but thank you for all that information, and then um you'll hear how we'll kind of work with you on getting this pushed through.

Okay.

Awesome.

Thank you.

So we'll with that so significant.

You yeah, you've got a couple things that we'll want to write in as the motion uh parts of this motion, Mary.

I'm probably gonna let you.

I'm assuming you're gonna tackle it.

Sure, sure.

I don't I don't want to be assumptive, but I'm gonna assume that.

So there we go.

So kind of, but well, yeah, but you can you can we are transcript.

So we need so we need to make it.

We were gonna include the trailer.

Number seven include trailer.

Well, and then we had talked about number nine as far as the hours or whatever for the dumpster, but I think we've kind of eight.

I think we've just moved that on to uh we're so we're relocating the dumpster.

So the ones with the dumpster.

So strike eight and nine, and then add an additional okay, and then the number five needs to be modified as yeah.

Right, two non-resident employees two coming to the site?

That's something like that.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then uh dumpster relocation prior to April 1st, 2026.

Yeah.

Dumpster location off-site.

Relocation, yeah.

Okay.

All right.

And again, if he if he finds out within the next two, three days that that's not an option, he can work with staff on what to do next.

But then he'll have to come to the code.

Exactly.

That meaning, meaning what to do next, like okay, get back on and how's that sounding so far, staff?

Did we hit everything?

And I'm I'm not clear on what you changed on the non-resident employees.

I don't understand why you what you changed there because it's still limited to two.

We want to change it to say there are two non-resident employees who will come to the home.

Allowed on site.

Yes.

All right.

So that doesn't limit the number of employees outside.

I can come over for a Christmas party, but it's uh but I'm not making I'm not I'm not changing the code here.

I'm just kidding.

Okay.

And number seven include the trailer.

Okay, I think I'm ready.

Okay.

I I move that we approve the home occupation conditional use permit as requested by Naiman Jones application 2025-0273-USE based on the following findings for approval and subject to the conditions listed in the staff report dated of February 16, 2026 with the following modifications to the conditions for approval.

So we're striking conditions eight and nine and adding an additional condition that the dumpster be removed from the property by April 1st 2026, and that no dumpster will be utilized by the business on the property.

For condition seven, we are adding that the trailer is part of the equipment that shall be stored inside of the third car garage.

And condition number five will be changed to limit the maximum of two non-resident employees at the home.

There we go.

Sounds good.

Great job, Mary.

Thanks for that modified motion.

Who will second that?

I'll second it.

Thanks, Susan.

Okay, let's put this then to a vote.

So this is to approve the uh conditional home occupation request here with the changes as proposed.

So let's put this to a vote.

Mary, how do you vote?

Yes.

Susan.

Yes.

Kendra.

Yes.

Lisa.

Yes.

And Laura.

Yes.

All right.

Thank you.

Thanks for working with us and good luck on that.

So we appreciate you being here in Draper.

Let's see if we can make it work.

All right, let's go ahead now move to our final public hearing.

This is the uh city initiated Highland Boundary Adjustment Land Use Map and Zoning Map Amendment Request.

It's on the request of Draper City for zoning and land use map amendments to remove approximately uh 0.25 acres of property from the Draper City zoning and land use maps.

The property's located at approximately 16199 south, 3300 east, and is the subject of a municipal boundary line adjustment with Highland City.

It's no uh known in applications 2026-0017-MA and 2026-0018-MA.

And Todd Draper's our staff contact.

Go ahead, Todd.

All right, thank you.

I'll make this one quick.

This is just as you read uh an amendment to both the land use map and the zoning map to remove uh some property from those maps uh as we're making a boundary adjustment with Highland City.

Now, this is the vicinity map.

Uh this is on that southeastern uh side of the city.

Uh the subject property is a very narrow sliver in this location that Highland City is purchased from the adjacent uh landowner.

Uh that boundary adjustment also makes a separate adjustment of some land in this area back into Draper City.

Uh but that's not the subject of this uh uh application if it'll let me um this is just the aerial map.

You'll see that area there to the north uh where that would take place, and the uh the um land use here is that hillside uh uh low density, and then the A5 zoning and then the uh sensitive lands overlay uh as far as the zoning maps concerned.

So all this is doing is taking those colors off of the map, and those will then be part of Highland City, and they'll take care of the zoning for that.

I've got a site photo here.

I've put a uh arrow about how far back that uh property probably is from uh Suncrest Drive there.

Todd, I think I think we'd like you to go stand out there.

You want you on stand there?

That's right.

Well, you know, I I did have the little flag from the uh here to use that as your rear alignment.

That was 300 patients from there.

But Andrew wanted a balloon.

That's the one.

Yes, I don't know.

Make sure that it is a little bit high there.

Red.

Yes.

I thought I was excited, I thought there was one.

It was just the flag though.

Any other uh questions you might have for me.

No.

All right, thank you.

Okay.

Is this a public hearing?

It sure is.

So it's but it's a bit of uh well long awaited here, so thank you.

All right, appreciate that.

The question for staff?

No.

Okay, good.

Public hearing.

We'll open this up for public comment.

Would anyone like to address this agenda item?

Come on down.

Sorry to keep you waiting with all the you got a lesson in civics, local civics.

Oh, I've had more than I ever wanted.

No, perfect.

So well from here.

Better than TV.

So uh if you'll just state your name too.

I will Mary Ann Norling, and I live in the cottages and overlooking this.

So I'm here tonight because I wanted to why Highland bought that little sliver.

That was number one.

So do you want to somebody want to answer that?

So that's the way this will work.

We'll just let you give your input and then we'll make notes and answer your questions.

So it's just send only for right now.

Okay.

I also want to know under analysis RR-22.

There is a Suncrest development agreement.

I know no, I do not know what that is.

I attended the Suncrest HOA meeting last night.

They don't know what it is.

So I would like to know what it is.

Um I do have a comment.

I wish somebody would update the website and map.

Because when I look at the map, I can't see what's going on, but I can see what's going on below me or above me, actually.

Um then I would also want to know what is a hillside sensitive overlay, because to me that whole thing that's a hillside overlay sensitivity area, but it's not being treated as such.

And is there a good point push person to ask my questions at city?

Because I was emailing Todd back and forth um a day before yesterday.

I have an emailed Brian, which I haven't gotten an answer, and that was in December.

So is there a point person to ask these um questions?

And when I my other comment is when I uh public hearing yellow signage goes up.

Couldn't I it not be behind a bush?

So there we go.

Thank you.

Oh, it did it.

You did it great timing.

Well done.

Very professional.

Thank you.

Thanks.

I have a lot of projects.

So we'll let you got it.

We'll let you go ahead and be seated.

And then like you said, I'm writing all these down, and we'll get you some answers after the public hearing.

So thank you.

These guys have earned it, they stayed till the last.

So anybody else want to make a public going once, twice, closed.

All right, so no more public comment.

Todd, we've got a couple questions here.

Why?

What and what?

Okay, so here we've got why did they why did what was the purpose reasoning behind this?

Maybe you can kind of share a little bit about that.

Yeah.

Um, Spencer or Tracy know better, but I have heard that this would be uh trail.

So for Australia access.

Adding it to some portion of their trail.

With um the Alpine Hollow development that's going in directly north of this property.

I think Highlands City's exploring trail options, and they purchased this property from the adjacent property owner, um, Alpine Joint Ventures as a potential trail location.

Whether that's what they end up doing with it or not, we don't know.

It is up to Highland City to decide what they want to do.

Um, but it that property is now owned by Highland City, so the goal tonight is to remove it from our maps as the city and highland are adjusting the boundary, so their city-owned property is within their city boundaries.

So now they can do whatever they want with it, but that's what you think suspect they might do.

Correct.

Okay.

Okay, and then uh the Suncrest dev agreement is is long gone, correct?

Yes and no.

Okay.

Still is codified in our ordinance that it it governs in the areas of Suncrest.

However, we did look at this, and it looks like there may be a discrepancy in in just where the parcels line up.

Um and so it may a little portion to the north here uh of the previous uh uh easement there may have pulled that in, and so that's why it's in the staff report.

But we're we're fairly certain that this actual property is not in that development agreement area.

Interesting okay and then what is the overlay the hillside overlay or or what was referenced there.

Yeah so that is um the nice little pink dots here I don't have it on a larger map to to kind of show all the areas that would be in that uh but most of Suncrest South Mountain that side of the city is in that overlay zone what does it mean you just can't touch it like it just has some additional restrictions and uh requirements it imposes some of the geology geotechnical requirements a uh a little differently for that area when we're looking at uh potential hazards things like that is is this the same that's all behind the properties up on Mule Dare do they have the same overlay does it extend all the way up to that or is that something different?

Because I I don't I don't remember any better the hillside uh sensitive overlay zone is basically um Highland Drive oh south got it that's why we don't see it okay that's why it's here got it all right I think I I kept track of all those um commissioners what are your what are your thoughts on any of this and then we've just got a quick motion on there I don't know I think we should make the applicant come back up just kidding I can answer one more question I realized that you didn't ask in there and that is the sign she did report oh yeah loan to the side and was kind of behind a bush that has been corrected it's out in front of you and this will be coming up for another hearing with the city council then so tonight would be a recommendation to city council yeah this is a bit of a dry run so what this will do is this this gets pushed off to or forwarded to the uh the actual city council with a recommendation from us do you know when that hearing date is so that these folks could know yes uh so the March third meeting is for uh city council hearing on this okay six thirty next week yeah seven at seven six thirty yeah at seven p.m.

thank you our our c our public comment also wanted to know who is the best contact person or the right contact person to ask her questions me yeah uh so Todd Todd Draper I I'm gonna give you my card at the end of the meeting um I was the planner both Alpine Hollow and Mercer Mountain and I have the feeling those are her questions good thank you perfect awesome all right well commissioners we've just got a quick motion here we've got two motions actually sorry I'll do the zoning map motion I did put them as one together report if you'd like to I'll make the one motion there we go I move that we forward positive recommendations to the city council for the proposed land use map and zoning map amendments as requested by Draper City applications 2026-0017-MA and two 2026-0018 dash ma based on the findings and criteria for approval as listed in the staff report dated February 5 2026 thanks Lisa yeah so there's our motion who'll second it I'll second that all right thanks Kendra so let's go ahead and put this to a vote for uh moving on with a positive recommendation of the city council Lisa yes Kendra yes Susan yes Mary yes and Laura yes okay so that'll get moved forward all right is there any other business that we need to add on to this meeting no I don't have anything.

Okay well seeing no further business commissioners I move we adjourn Mary Ms we adjourn we're adjourned thank you very well