OPENPUBLICA · PUBLIC MEETING RECORD
Record of Proceedings

City Commission Workshop: Risk Management, Flood Mitigation, and Regional Resource Recovery Facility - November 4, 2025

City Commission & Boards — Tuesday, November 4, 2025
BodyDunedin, Florida
SessionCity Commission & Boards
DateTuesday, November 4, 2025
StatusFILED
Video Record
0:00 / 3:22:34

Transcript — Verbatim
0:04

Morning everyone.

0:06

And welcome to the November 4th, 2025 City Commission workshop, calling the meeting to order, and I'm we'll start by having the Pledge of Allegiance led by Jen, our city attorney.

0:25

And to the Republic for which it stands.

0:28

One nation under God.

0:30

Indivisible for liberty and justice for now we're gonna sing the two anthems, United States and Canada.

0:42

Wow.

0:43

We haven't met for two weeks, and in two weeks all we've done is Toronto Blue Jays.

0:47

So uh who anybody here at the watch party?

0:52

The other night?

0:53

Yeah.

0:55

Anybody?

0:57

I did.

0:58

Oh, that was tough.

0:59

That was tough, but we love our Blue Jays.

1:02

Um, we're gonna go ahead and we have no presentations.

1:07

So we're gonna do uh citizen input.

1:10

So does anyone in the audience have anything that is not in the agenda they wish to come forward and talk about?

1:17

Okay, seeing no one, I'll close uh citizen input.

1:21

We'll go to workshop items and let me see.

1:23

Um can it get more fascinating than going from baseball to 61 page audit reports on risk management programs.

1:31

I mean, you know, but but that's the job, right, guys?

1:34

That's the job.

1:35

All right, so we're gonna turn it over to uh Teresa, I guess, to start this off.

1:40

Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission, Teresa Smalling, Director of HR and Risk Management and the City's risk manager.

1:48

Uh you may remember yeah at a budget workshop, there were questions about the city's insurance and risk management program.

1:59

So with uh city direction, I have invited our consultants from the Garing Group, which is a risk strategies company and now also part of the Brown and Brown team.

2:12

Uh they are the city's current uh broker of record and also serves as our risk management consultant.

2:18

Before I turn it over to them, I just wanted to make a few comments.

2:23

Uh with having a consulting firm in on the risk management side is very valuable to our department and to the city because we are HR and risk management is a small department.

2:36

We have two uh two members of staff that actually work on the risk management side of the house.

2:44

And as um we have seen last year, especially with our storms, there are besides the day-to-day workers' comp um insurance claims, there are a number of complicated insurance and risk management issues that I as even with all my years of experience do not have the um comfort level of risk management experience.

3:11

So that is why the city does have uh consulting firm and the Garing Group, which has been with us, I think since 2007-ish.

3:22

Um they have um proven themselves over and over.

3:26

Uh with us today is uh Ray Carter.

3:31

Uh he is the our senior senior consultant.

3:35

He is our day-to-day risk management um consultant, and he is a former risk management for Manatee County.

3:44

Uh so he helps with the more serious issues, claims.

3:49

Um he works with uh the third-party administrator that helps with workers' comp and liability claims, as well as the city city attorney's office and also city manager.

4:02

Uh so I also want to introduce Rami, who's our senior consultant and risk services team lead.

4:09

She helps with the annual renewal, she helps with uh helping me to uh navigate contract the insurance language in in some of the contracts that the city has and um they uh they are a wealth of information.

4:24

So without further ado, I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to them.

4:29

They have a brief presentation and then they'll take any questions.

4:38

Sorry, just trying to get the slides here right.

4:40

Um so I'll go ahead and start out because I think we want to leave maybe more of it to to Ray to talk some around the risk management strategy and the consulting piece.

4:49

So I'm gonna tackle a few of these um team members who are dedicated to the city.

4:54

Garing group basically establishes a team for each one of our clients, and these individuals are at Teresa and her team's disposal for any um you know service matter.

5:04

As the risk services consultant to the city, essentially my job is to help make sure that we are properly and adequately either procuring insurance or assisting Ray in their process with risk transfer.

5:19

So, what that means is you know, myself as Rami, the consultant, I look at all of the coverages that the city has today.

5:27

We determine based on you know forward thinking, potential new additions to the city in terms of operations or offerings to the public and determine you know what potential coverage may be appropriate to help hedge some of the risk that may be associated with those activities.

5:44

Um my job is to oversee the account executive that's assigned to the city as well, and that account executive is essentially the individual that uh Teresa and Sherry work with aggregating whatever data is needed to procure renew or market programs.

6:03

So Angela also assists with things like generating certificates of insurance for the city as needed.

6:09

Um sometimes the county asks for them if you have any interlocals if you're sharing things, as well as other vendors potentially.

6:16

She also works with the city to process endorsements, so any changes to the policy, whether you need to add assets, remove assets, change, you know, maybe a potential um valuation of an asset.

6:30

And then she does also assist with billing and invoicing.

6:33

Our office does bill and invoice the majority of the ancillary policies that are placed outside of the Florida Municipal Insurance Trust.

6:41

And just to touch on that, um, Garin Group has had a long-standing relationship as well with the Florida Municipal Insurance Trust.

6:48

It's one of the large government trusts that does provide property casualty and workers' compensation insurance to government entities in the state.

6:56

Um, Garing Group does have a pretty uh we enjoy a pretty um good relationship with the league who administers the trust, and we have access to their underwriters and also with some of their senior leadership in terms of developing and thinking about what programs may be beneficial to our mutual client base.

7:17

Garing Group mostly serves the public sector, and on the risk side, I think we're almost a hundred percent um public sector.

7:23

So this is our wheelhouse.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Risk Management█████████████████████████████████████37%
Water And Wastewater Management██████████10%
Environmental Protection█████████9%
Stormwater Management████████8%
Public Engagement███████7%
Procedural█████5%
Public Safety█████5%
Solid Waste Management█████5%
Budget Equity Analysis███3%
Summary of Proceedings

City Commission Workshop: Risk Management, Flood Mitigation, and Regional Resource Recovery Facility - November 4, 2025

The City of Dunedin Commission held a workshop on November 4, 2025, at 9:00 AM in City Hall. The meeting covered three major topics: the City's Risk Management Program, updates on tidal/stormwater mitigation in the North Douglas and Baywood Shores neighborhoods, and an overview of the proposed Pinellas County Regional Resource Recovery Facility (RRRF). The meeting included presentations from city staff and consultants, commission discussion, and public comment. The workshop adjourned at 12:31 PM.

Public Comments & Testimony

  • Citizen Input (general): No speakers came forward at the beginning of the meeting for non-agenda items.
  • North Douglas and Baywood Shores Update: Several residents spoke:
    • Jeanette Cornell (1858 Douglas Avenue) noted that many of her questions were answered. She highlighted residents' concerns about a clogged 36-inch corrugated metal pipe (CMP) on the Pinellas Trail side (a Pinellas County asset) causing standing water behind homes, and requested county action. She acknowledged that the recently installed tidal valves have reduced street flooding, but stated that when tides exceed 2.8 feet, water remains on the street.
    • David Kelly (1871 Pasadena Drive) argued that a pond intended to collect freshwater is now filled with saltwater from Cedar Creek, which appears to be widening over years. He suggested cleaning Cedar Creek might help alleviate flooding.
    • Richard Cornell (1858 Douglas Avenue) expressed satisfaction with the stoppage of tidal inflow on Douglas Avenue but raised concerns about drainage towards the south (Mira Vista). He stated that partial ditch cleaning on the Pinellas Trail side has created resistance, causing water to back up into backyards of properties north of the cleaned area.
  • Pinellas County RRRF Overview: No members of the public spoke during the open comment period for this item.

Discussion Items

2.a. Discussion of the City's Risk Management Program

  • Presentation by Consultants: Human Resource/Risk Management Director Theresa Smalling introduced the Gehring Group (part of Brown & Brown), the city's risk management consultant. Ray Carter (Senior Consultant) and Rommi Mitchell (Senior Consultant) presented.
  • Key Statistics:
    • Annual premium for 2025/2026: $2,852,347. Property total insured value (TIV) approximately $281 million; payroll ~$23 million.
    • Renewal decreased by $289,271 (-9.2%), 19% below market average.
    • Experience modification (EMod) for workers' compensation decreased 8 points to 0.66 — meaning Dunedin is 34% better than the average entity of its size and merit.
    • Over FY20-FY25, the property loss ratio was 174% (meaning claims paid exceeded premiums, largely due to a fire and storm claims).
    • Workers' compensation EMod down 22 points overall over the period.
    • Projected ultimate limited losses for 2025/26: $724,872 (compared to $612,717 for 2024/25, an 18.3% change considered common for small programs).
    • Estimated outstanding losses as of Sept. 30, 2025: $1,333,202 (vs. $1,345,360 in 2024, a -0.9% change).
  • Coverage Details: The city is self-insured for general liability (subject to tort caps of $200,000/$300,000) and auto liability. Core coverages include property, primary flood, auto physical damage, professional/employment practices liability, excess workers’ compensation, and cyber liability. Ancillary coverages include EMT liability, marina operators liability, crime insurance, etc.
  • Market Conditions: The consultants noted a softening market due to pressure from the governor’s office and insurer investment returns; potential for continued rate relief in 2026/2027.
  • Commission Questions: Vice Mayor Gow and Commissioners Sandbergen, Dugard, and Walker asked about experience modification calculation, reserves, actuarial projections, safety culture, and the role of the safety committee. Commission discussions emphasized the importance of a culture of safety and proactive risk management.

2.b. North Douglas and Baywood Shores Update

  • Presentation by Utilities & Engineering Director Clayton Watkins and Public Works Director Sue Bartlett: The update covered ongoing and planned work to address tidal (clear sky) flooding.
  • North Douglas Avenue Proposal: Implementation of Solution C — isolating the local drainage system with a berm (elevation 2.5 feet), new tidal valves in 18-inch pipes, and sealed manhole covers. The berm will block tidal flow from the north while allowing rainfall to drain.
  • Timeline: Construction bid will go out on November 7 (Friday), closing December 9, 2025. Commission approval expected in December or early January, with 60 days for completion.
  • Maintenance Efforts: Three Duoseal manhole lids purchased; one installed Sept. 30, 2025, with the remaining two to be installed as part of the construction project. Tidal valves are maintained quarterly.
  • Baywood Shores: Ten tidal valves installed last year; maintenance is now more frequent than quarterly due to debris and leakage. Staff monitors tides proactively.
  • Commission Discussion: Commissioners noted that while the project will reduce flooding for tides up to 2.5 feet, it is not an absolute solution for higher tides. The option of raising the road was dismissed because it would divert water into adjacent homes. A chart showing tidal elevation increases over time was requested and will be provided.
  • Adaptability Plan: Future options (including road raising) will be considered as part of the ongoing coastal vulnerability/adaptability plan, expected after January 2026.

2.c. Pinellas County Regional Resource Recovery Facility (RRRF) Overview

  • Presentation by Clayton Watkins and Utilities Operational Division Manager Janice Bennett: The RRRF is a planned County facility to process biosolids regionally, producing renewable energy, fertilizer, and compost. It would address pending FDEP/EPA regulations on land application and PFAS (per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances).
  • Current Disposal: Dunedin produces liquid Class B biosolids (3% solids), which are hauled daily to a cattle farm in Hernando County. Land application of Class B sludge has been under increasing regulatory pressure.
  • Project Phases: Currently in Phase 2 (design criteria package, interlocal agreements, permitting) expected through Q4 2026. Phase 3 (design-build) would run Q4 2026 to Q1 2029, followed by operation.
  • Cost Estimates (preliminary): Table on slide 9: Treatment trains with estimated cost per residential customer per month. Examples: Option 1A ($5.40), 1B ($5.67), 8 ($17.80). The cost would be added to wastewater bills.
  • Commission Discussion: Commissioners expressed support for continued negotiations but voiced concerns over cost to residents, PFAS regulation uncertainty, and the need for parallel lobbying at state/federal levels. City Manager Bramley confirmed that the commission authorized negotiations and that any final interlocal agreement would require commission approval. The city may withdraw if a more cost-effective alternative emerges.
  • Note on PFAS: The consultants noted that PFAS are not currently regulated in biosolids, but the EPA is studying limits. 15 states have enacted PFAS laws; Florida has not. The U.S. has not banned PFAS domestically.

Key Outcomes

  • Risk Management Program: No formal vote, but the commission requested follow-up information: a schedule of values, a two-page report on the $3.5 million self-insurance reserve level, and a summary of coverages. The safety committee will communicate with department directors and the city attorney about claims.
  • North Douglas/Baywood Shores: The commission directed staff to proceed with the bid process for the North Douglas project. Staff will provide a chart of tidal frequencies (2.5+ feet) and follow up with Pinellas County regarding the 36-inch CMP clogs and ditch maintenance behind homes on the west side of Douglas.
  • RRRF Negotiations: The commission gave consensus direction for the city manager and staff to continue negotiations with Pinellas County regarding participation in the RRRF, with the caveat that the city will seek alternative options if more cost-effective. Staff will provide updates and return with an interlocal agreement for approval. Additionally, staff will research strategies to address PFAS reduction and advocate for regulation.
  • Other Items: The city will consider extending the Pioneer Park holiday lights (Operation Twinkle) and will discuss further at the next regular meeting. The Social Connection Survey will be released to the community on November 6.

Meeting Transcript

Morning everyone. And welcome to the November 4th, 2025 City Commission workshop, calling the meeting to order, and I'm we'll start by having the Pledge of Allegiance led by Jen, our city attorney. And to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God. Indivisible for liberty and justice for now we're gonna sing the two anthems, United States and Canada. Wow. We haven't met for two weeks, and in two weeks all we've done is Toronto Blue Jays. So uh who anybody here at the watch party? The other night? Yeah. Anybody? I did. Oh, that was tough. That was tough, but we love our Blue Jays. Um, we're gonna go ahead and we have no presentations. So we're gonna do uh citizen input. So does anyone in the audience have anything that is not in the agenda they wish to come forward and talk about? Okay, seeing no one, I'll close uh citizen input. We'll go to workshop items and let me see. Um can it get more fascinating than going from baseball to 61 page audit reports on risk management programs. I mean, you know, but but that's the job, right, guys? That's the job. All right, so we're gonna turn it over to uh Teresa, I guess, to start this off. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission, Teresa Smalling, Director of HR and Risk Management and the City's risk manager. Uh you may remember yeah at a budget workshop, there were questions about the city's insurance and risk management program. So with uh city direction, I have invited our consultants from the Garing Group, which is a risk strategies company and now also part of the Brown and Brown team. Uh they are the city's current uh broker of record and also serves as our risk management consultant. Before I turn it over to them, I just wanted to make a few comments. Uh with having a consulting firm in on the risk management side is very valuable to our department and to the city because we are HR and risk management is a small department. We have two uh two members of staff that actually work on the risk management side of the house. And as um we have seen last year, especially with our storms, there are besides the day-to-day workers' comp um insurance claims, there are a number of complicated insurance and risk management issues that I as even with all my years of experience do not have the um comfort level of risk management experience. So that is why the city does have uh consulting firm and the Garing Group, which has been with us, I think since 2007-ish. Um they have um proven themselves over and over. Uh with us today is uh Ray Carter. Uh he is the our senior senior consultant. He is our day-to-day risk management um consultant, and he is a former risk management for Manatee County. Uh so he helps with the more serious issues, claims. Um he works with uh the third-party administrator that helps with workers' comp and liability claims, as well as the city city attorney's office and also city manager. Uh so I also want to introduce Rami, who's our senior consultant and risk services team lead. She helps with the annual renewal, she helps with uh helping me to uh navigate contract the insurance language in in some of the contracts that the city has and um they uh they are a wealth of information. So without further ado, I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to them. They have a brief presentation and then they'll take any questions. Sorry, just trying to get the slides here right. Um so I'll go ahead and start out because I think we want to leave maybe more of it to to Ray to talk some around the risk management strategy and the consulting piece. So I'm gonna tackle a few of these um team members who are dedicated to the city. Garing group basically establishes a team for each one of our clients, and these individuals are at Teresa and her team's disposal for any um you know service matter. As the risk services consultant to the city, essentially my job is to help make sure that we are properly and adequately either procuring insurance or assisting Ray in their process with risk transfer. So, what that means is you know, myself as Rami, the consultant, I look at all of the coverages that the city has today. We determine based on you know forward thinking, potential new additions to the city in terms of operations or offerings to the public and determine you know what potential coverage may be appropriate to help hedge some of the risk that may be associated with those activities. Um my job is to oversee the account executive that's assigned to the city as well, and that account executive is essentially the individual that uh Teresa and Sherry work with aggregating whatever data is needed to procure renew or market programs.

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