I'm not make a motion to nominate uh Kevin Settle.

All in favor?

Any opposed director Settle?

Uh we'll start with it.

Um City Administrator.

Jeff Deakin.

Jeff.

Thank you.

Item one is a discussion of options regarding the request of Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

relative to Roselawn, Holy Cross, and Forest Park Cemeteries.

And it was placed for further discussion at this evening's meeting.

At this point, we'll be open to any discussion from representatives from Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

if there's anything to make initial comments on or any advisement from the board of directors right here at the at the podium at the Senator.

Oh okay.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming.

Please state your name and that's all we need to do.

Sure, Marty Clark, uh board president for Fort Smith Cemeteries, Inc.

So just wanted to kind of present an update on our end and then um kind of a status update of where we are.

Um we have talked um to a few um board members to try to educate a little bit more about the process and the issue that we have and the challenges that are faced by um these three cemeteries.

Um you know it's it's our position that um it's very important.

I think it's a civic obligation that we have, and these cemeteries are going to be here in perpetuity, and we think that they should be taken care of uh by the city at a level that they deserve and respect.

And that's really what our our position is.

Um we uh you know I I think most of y'all are familiar with the situation about being a perpetual care cemetery.

Um some of the uh the process that would be involved in kind of unwinding the cemetery.

Um but I'm open to any questions that you guys may have or any other um comments you may have.

Any board member have any qu questions?

Uh Director Cassavis, George.

Well, you the last time we met you said burials were down.

Yes.

What percentage?

What do you say?

Well, an example, um we had a we kind of had a uh Hail Mary call for some money um to meet payroll at the end of November, and one of the problems is is that we we had had two services, two burials in the month of November.

The previous year it was 15, and the year previous to that it was 14.

So I don't think this is just a trend of how many people died in our city.

I think it's part of the economics, it's part of the the um where how people are being cremated rather than buried, and so there's always going to be revenue uh constraints and challenges, and in that particular case, um we had uh to get a last minute donation to cover payroll, and so you know it's it's been a challenge, George.

So one one once I don't understand what you cremate somebody, you can do what you want with the ashes, right?

You can take them out to the park and put them in uh whatever.

Sure, I think so.

But do you all charge for that for the ashes as a regular burial?

Well, there is a columbarium there that had that that is a place that somebody could have their ashes placed.

But do you have charge for that?

They would charge for that.

I don't know what the charge is.

But not as much as a burial.

Correct, not nearly as much because the burial involves uh a couple things.

It's a purchase of a plot, um, and it's also the cost to um to open and close the grave uh at the time of burial.

Yeah, I think those are revenue sources.

Yes, yeah.

Have you all talked to the state?

We have talked to the state significant extensively.

I mean, we've been at this for about three years, so I'd say in the last year and a half we've had pretty advanced uh discussions with the state.

Um, you know, there is a process there as a perpetual care cemetery.

Um if you can't make it, essentially, and I think that's basically where we feel that we are and that uh that process would involve uh going into receivership and then having a receiver appointed to the cemeteries by a local judge.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, uh Director Settle.

Um Maria and Ed, I appreciate you guys and your passion, your your uh efforts that you all have taken, especially I know at your own personal expense at times to do this.

And um, and I've thought about it.

I know we had a meeting.

Um I appreciate the opportunity to sit down and talk more about it.

Um I also had a chance to talk to Mr.

Bone.

Uh I happen to know him and and called him and talked to him about maybe what were his concerns when he had stepped away from the board uh Fort Smith Cemeteries and you know uh just I think that after looking at it, and then I also know I remembered I recalled our our preliminary discussions about some of the infrastructure things that are going on that need to be looked at, and so for me uh it's just hard to get behind this at this point because of the the demands that are there.

Uh we you know we have a public cemetery that we've had since 1859, and y'all know that that oak cemetery, and we've maintained that to show our care.

I know at times that was some concerns that were brought forth, and then the wall was addressed and things were looked at.

And I also even talked to Mr.

Dewster, and uh she's gonna look into some of the potholes that are on our roads, even though I was brought to my attention today.

But um for me uh it's hard to look at pulling back and all the personnel and all the budget cuts that we've had to look at for the balanced budget going forward, and then to add this expense on at this point, you know, and I think it maybe it's something that as it goes to a receivership process.

I'm I'm curious to see where that goes or where it takes it, you know, if that's if that's the way you all have to go.

But for me, um, you know, we still have and I asked uh for this information, went looking for uh looked into this a little bit more, but we still have available two thousand seven hundred and seventy plots at Oak Cemetery that could be sold, and we've had that since 1859.

And so it's just hard to think about taking on more space at this time for me currently when we we're still needing to maintain the roadway and some infrastructure pieces to what we already currently have.

But I really uh I've appreciated y'all's sincerity.

I believe you guys are gonna make the next right move if if this is something that doesn't come to fruition.

Thank you.

Uh Director Christian.

Thanks, thanks, Lee.

Uh could I make a comment to that?

So uh I think obviously we appreciate you guys your time with this topic and your service overall.

So I appreciate the opportunity to speak freely about it.

Um, you know, to us it's not about the I think the view of we already have a cemetery, we have places for people to bury, that's a view that you can take, but we're really not talking about the availability of future plots.

What we're talking about is a responsibility to take care of the 55,000 grave sites that are actively in these cemeteries and what happens to those in the respect to those people if this doesn't go this way, right?

So uh I hear what you're saying about the the future of of opportunity to still bury people in town, and that's the city's job that we have a cemetery that you can always go to, but I'd say the bigger topic and the bigger responsibility is not about making sure we have available grave sites, it's about tending to the ones that are already in place and these these big properties that are really going to fall into disrepair uh really quickly, you know.

So and and I appreciate uh the response and the perspective that you offer in that, but you know, since 1859, it that predates these cemeteries.

So there were those that stepped in for an adventure knowing that there was still availability in Fort Smith to create this nonprofit.

And the hard part is the precedence that it could set.

I mean, there are other various issues that I know we all care about in this room because we love our community, and the needs in the nonprofit sector always outweigh the resources available.

And so if we do this with this nonprofit, what other precedence is that setting?

That's that's a question in my head because there's gonna be other things that our hearts are gonna bleed as well on this.

Um when we talk about the care of a community, we you know, we got homelessness, we have uh affordable housing.

I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that are there, and so for me, I I just I see the point.

I do I do validly agree with you.

However, it it sets a precedence that starts to kind of unravel, in my opinion.

Uh Director Christina Cassavis.

Well, I I'm not worried about it um setting a precedent because we will end up with these eventually.

We're not likely to end up with any other nonprofit eventually.

This will go into receivership and most likely will be appointed the receiver.

Is that correct?

Correct.

Yeah, the states advisorily, it's the only option.

So right now with the shortfall, how is that being funded?

Are you guys funding it personally?

Yeah, I mean, it's fortunate right now that we're not in the extreme growing season, so our expenses in the last couple of months have been reduced, but it's still extremely difficult.

And yes, it's being funded by personal sources.

So I think what's going to happen here is the gentlemen are not going to continue funding this.

It's not their personal responsibility to do that.

And it's going to fall into disrepair.

It's going to go to the state.

We're going to end up with them anyway.

And I think it's shameful to go through this process and say we're not going to care for our own.

I mean, we talk all the time about amenities.

We pour hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars into amenities.

These are historical and cultural assets.

People have chosen Fort Smith as their final resting place, and we're we're going to tell them we're not going to take care of you now.

I think I think we need to sober up and take a serious look about how to get this done.

I know we can find a way to get it done.

I think it's the right thing to do.

What it says about us as a society that we would consider not taking care of our debt.

I I just think it's shameful.

Thank you.

Any other board member with comments or questions for the two gentlemen?

Director uh Neil Martin?

Yeah, so I think uh Jeff sent a an email out to the board just a little bit ago.

Um he just kind of shared it with me.

I think that's something we as a board need to take a look at in terms of potential private ownership of the of the uh cemetery.

Um I've had some conversations in the last couple of days.

I think it's incumbent on us to exhaust all options before the city take ownership of this of the cemetery.

I know you we've we've spoken um and I appreciate your time and effort.

I appreciate what you guys have been doing.

It's it hasn't been an easy task.

I know uh you know that uh you guys have put in a lot of work on this, but you know, there's got to be some other items that that we look at.

Let me let me ask a couple questions of you guys, just uh as as things have have come through.

Um who's who handles pre-sales for these um for these cemeteries?

Meaning uh prepar uh you know, as folks want to pre-pr pre-plan their funeral, pre pre plan uh where they're where they're gonna rest.

Um who who does that for these cemeteries?

So Lisa, our the manager of Fort Smith Cemeteries manages that.

So that the only thing that is pre-related, pre-death related that we would do is sell a plot.

So the service, all of that sort of stuff would be handled through a funeral home.

So we we would only sell the plot, which is actually the the right of internment.

You don't actually own that piece of ground.

You own a right to be buried there.

So do you do a plot and then an open and close?

Mm-hmm.

Like what's the c do you know the cost of that?

It's 1,200 bucks to more in that neighborhood.

We outsource the digging.

So for us, it's about a 50 percent margin activity.

So we collect what we collect, we pay roughly half to the guy that does the work and half stays with us.

Right.

Right.

Um I I think we we when you when you look at some of these things that that happen in terms of these cemeteries, a couple things that that that happens is for for cities, you ultimately find out you can find out that it costs more than you initially projected.

You know, we we we had a number that Sarah Dewster uh brought us that was I felt it was high from the get-go.

Um a lot of capital expenditures up front.

Um Fort Smith Cemeteries brought us something that was considerably less.

It looked looked more palatable.

Um one of the things that cities see is costs are higher than what was projected.

Um but also what what happens is, and this is this is my concern is it starts impacting the budget budget in a way that cities are try to figure out ways to handle it.

And what they see is they go to the citizens and they say we need we need a sales tax to fund this stuff.

Ultimately it gets voted down, and you're the cities are in these in these kind of uh situations that are that are uh I think untenable long term.

Um I I think I I have some concerns with that.

And and so with this entity that had had reached out to us or that reached out to Jeff and then has sent information to us.

Um there's a responsibility for them to the State Cemetery Board, just like every other cemetery.

Um as as conver you know, we t we talked a lot about costs and how cost impact um people and and we talked about private ownership and we and there was a concern of of the costs getting too high.

Am I correct in some of our discussions we were concerned about it take goes private and then costs start to jump up pretty high?

Well, I I think the problem is that if it for any common business person, it's not a good business model.

So in order for you to to get that or acquire a cemetery, you basically have to have it given to you, and then you have to jack prices way up.

Right.

Right?

And that's it becomes super predatory.

And what we've found from some of the private operators that have been referenced to us, and in fact, one that called us is stay away from them.

And that's from the state.

This is the state saying that we need to be careful about that.

And because there's really the only way to make money is to be predatory to the community in a way.

The the entity that I spoke with said they would have a uh a price match guarantee.

So there wouldn't be a uh, you know, hopeful, hopefully we wouldn't have this instance of of gouging.

And then they specifically talked about pre-need sales.

So they don't they don't necessarily depend on burials today.

They're more focused on future.

So the the future is paying for what happens, uh what's happening today.

So that's where the the uh the revenue comes from in these situations.

I think we've got to look at that.

I think we've got to look at that in order for us before we make a decision of of of taking this over, where we would have nobody doing pre-sale.

Nobody going out, because we're not doing that today at Oak Cemetery, correct?

Nobody is marketing that cemetery as a place to do all your burials.

That's not happening today.

It wouldn't happen with uh with these three either.

So I think we're in a situation where as those burial if if those folks start to cremate and and burials are less, that's less and less revenue that's coming in.

I don't like to talk about this in revenue terms, but we've got to.

We've got to talk about it in revenue terms um and from some capacity if the city is gonna take it on.

So I think we need to look at that.

And and if if we get into a situation where that's untenable, you know, and it goes to the state, and the state remands it back to us, you know, maybe we're in that situation.

But I think we need to we need to look at all available options coming to us before we when you say we, do you who do you mean?

Well, uh we all all of us.

Because I think where we have a vested interest that um that the cemeteries are in uh good condition.

I mean we've got liens out out on them.

Um you know, we want to make sure that it's when when citizens come to visit their loved ones that the place is mowed and and and looks presentable.

Um so I think we've all got a vested interest.

Um I'm just not necessarily ready to say the city's now solely responsible for it.

Okay.

Can I make a comment?

Sure.

Okay, so um I think I know the group that you're talking about, and the state has advised first of all, the state would have to bless the transfer, and so apparently they have some issues with that particular buyer.

Um I I think that we are coming to you saying we are committed as a community, as representatives of the community to help make a transition feasible and possible, and that includes raising private money in perpetuity as a nonprofit that would support the Fort Smith Cemeteries, Inc.

Okay, friends of Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

So that is a goal of ours to further reduce any deficit that we would have.

But I guess my final comment, and I think some of y'all may have read my commentary yesterday and talk business.

The my comment is that you know I I don't envy you guys.

You have to make tough decisions every day, and you're looking at budgets line itemed, and you've got people with their hand out everywhere.

I get it.

That's why we're trying to be very responsible.

We have vetted this for three years.

Okay, so we have looked at things.

And and there's really not a path forward without it falling in your lap.

And what we would like to try to do is to work with you to help assimilate that process and make it something that's going to be successful long term, including the fundraising that goes on in the future.

I think boards have to make decisions, you have to make tough decisions.

I can't think of one personally that means more to our community than this.

Okay.

I know there's a whole lot of discussions about water slides and all that stuff.

You got to make important decisions, okay?

And I would I would encourage you to support this because Ed and I we're pretty good business people, we know what we're doing.

There's not a path forward on this, okay?

I wish there was, but there is not.

Okay.

Director Martin Dunn.

Yeah, yeah, I I think so.

Um I I just I want to I want to make sure that we we're looking at all our options available to us, at least entertain the idea.

I at least want to entertain the idea of what options are available to us uh before we we move into uh kind of our uh ownership for lack of a better word of three additional cemeteries.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Director Good, Director Kemp, and the director of Savis.

Directors.

Thanks for setting.

Uh Director Martin, uh, you were talking about, did you actually speak to the company that uh Jeff referenced in his email for the I did, yes.

I did, yes.

So that was a comp that was the company that you were talking about that uh possibly would um work out some type of uh pre-sales and marketing.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'm gonna start by saying that I absolutely agree with Director Christina Cassavets that this is our responsibility, not just a civic responsibility, but ours as community leaders.

Um secondly, uh I want to thank uh Mr.

Marty Clark, because you know, you make great points that you know we need to be involved with the organizations that are going to give us more options.

And working with you and your organization, you know, you will go out and and try to fundraise and do you know like like friends apart, we have friends of the cemeteries.

So that is going to be uh probably a very good option that we're gonna have to have uh in our quiver.

Um there's two things that that our that I really have concerns on, like I'm sure the other board members do too, is our budget shortfalls right now.

Um but secondly, is this as it pertains to the cemeteries?

We know what is gonna happen.

They're gonna fall into neglect and then blight, and then that's gonna come back to us anyway.

So why not jump ahead, take responsibility and figure out a way how we're gonna make this work, whether it's dealing with the operation that um Mr.

Dingman brought up today uh in the email, uh, whether it's friends of cemeteries, uh, but regardless, whatever that looks like, I think the city needs to be involved because it's eventually going to come back to us and fall on our laps anyway.

Any else, Director Good?

Uh Director Kemp.

Thank you, Director Settle.

I agree.

I mean, these are tough decisions.

Um I don't think taking it is an easy decision.

I don't think saying no is an easy decision, and I think we need to remember that.

I agree with Director Martin.

I would like to see us explore options.

Um and I can appreciate that maybe there was concern from Fort Smith Cemeteries, but I would like the city to be a part of that conversation because if we're gonna be the ones that take it, then and that and it seems as adamant as that seems to be at the case, then I think they should have an opportunity at the table to hear what the group coming forward wants to offer, especially if they're talking about price match.

I I don't see how that that would be something that we would not explore until it's no longer an option.

I mean, I want to remind us this is not CapEx.

I mean, Marty, you mentioned water slides.

This has nothing to do with water slides, this has to do with uh budget structural footprints that I mean we all know that government takes twice as long to do something and costs twice as much.

I mean, I'm working on things with uh projects, and I see that what we spend in the private sector, a group could do it much more efficient than what we do these some of these projects for.

And so as we look at these things, we're talking about that long-term look, you know.

Um what is 400,000 becomes four million, which becomes 400 million.

I mean, when you start kind of thinking about the compound effect of this on blight, and I agree, but at the same time, all blight is addressed in the city by citizen services.

I mean, you know, we would we would help in that regard.

We do help properties that are in blight doing that.

And then on the receivership part, the only reason why I think we should explore our options is we as the city need to hear what the state board says.

And I can respect what they are telling them, but I can also understand maybe what they would tell us.

I mean, we're making the assumptions that county would have no play in this, but maybe perhaps it's a a thing that we we're we don't need to make that assumption that county wouldn't be asked to do this or county to be asked to do a percentage of this, and the city takes a percentage of this.

So I think we need to explore these options, is where I'm I agree with you, Director Martin.

Thank you.

Uh Director Christina Cassavis.

Well, I I just like to make the point that these are not traditional nonprofits, they're essential public assets, and they serve a very necessary and unavoidable function.

Um, you know, I I agree with what Director Martin was saying about trying to find alternatives.

I have looked and tried to find alternatives.

I haven't found one.

I just think we need to have a really honest conversation about the direction of this if we're going to end up with them.

Thank you.

Thank you, Christina.

Uh Jeff?

Uh yeah, I've had some conversations in the last couple of days with with the state, the insurance department, and the perpetual care cemeteries folks.

Um just to re-familiarize myself with the with the technicalities of what happens there.

And you know, the the first question I had was, you know, if if the city owned and operated these, do they stay perpetual care cemeteries?

They do.

We can't change that.

It was set up as a perpetual care cemetery and it stays that way.

And it's different than we operate Oak Cemetery to where you know all of the all of the plot sales revenues that we get, we don't send the percentage of that to the state for for that reason.

We the city has maintained that obligation to maintain the cemetery.

And so um I asked, you know, does that does that become a possibility if the city operates it?

And they said, no, that's not that's not how it works.

I mean, there's a possibility to where portions of the property that are not already sold as perpetual care plots could potentially be carved out and operated that way.

But the ones that are there, the ones that are already plotted and deemed perpetual care portion of the cemetery, they stay that way forever.

And so and that was interesting to me.

But the uh the other thing that I asked about was the receivership discussion.

You know, when a private cemetery, privately owned cemetery becomes insolvent.

Uh it does go through that process through the circuit court, um, who will you know declare it to be insolvent and then perhaps name a receiver?

And I said, Well, does that does the naming of that receiver, is that involuntary upon the receiver?

And the answer is no, it is not involuntary.

I mean, that is something that we would decide then to become the receiver if the court says, are you going to be the receiver of this?

And so and so it could be I mean, it typically is a local government who's named the receiver.

It could be a county government, could be a municipal government, but it could be any receiver who's willing to take on that responsibility to operate that, and it largely will fall to a local government to do that.

Jeff, real quick, i in the in the timeline of that, so so it it goes into receivership until it's named, until the receiver is named.

Um do you know kind of the timeline of that and who oversees and manages at that point?

No, I think I I don't.

I mean, I think that depends on the whatever time it takes for the court to have its hearing to go through its process to do to do the things.

And so um, you know, that at that point the I mean the the other the other part of that conversation I got is that the state itself, this insurance department, they don't operate the cemeteries.

They over you know they oversee these rules and they help navigate the process to to name a receiver who then op who then operates the cemetery.

But when the turn it over to the state and let the state operate it, that's not how it works.

The state doesn't operate them.

They help facilitate the process to get a receiver named and the receiver then operates it.

And so um in in you know, presumably I mean a local government is typically the only one that would be able to make that work because has been experienced, it's not a it's not a necessarily a profitable business model for a private entity.

Um subsequent to those discussions, and you know, I I I've gathered that this particular group that I spoke with today had reached out to a number of directors.

I hadn't heard from them, they hadn't reached out to administration or anybody on staff that I know of.

Um but the director Martin gave them my name.

They called me and I talked I spoke with two of the principal owners of this particular company.

And you know, it is a private entity and they own cemeteries in multiple states, and they have acquired uh eight cemeteries in Arkansas in 2025, including the Woodlawn Cemetery on State Line Road in Fort Smith.

Um their business bond, and I I don't I don't claim to know the the details of of the types of things that they do, but they they do the pre-death sales of services.

And and they they did mention to me that you know they there might be some concern over the relationship of this particular company with this with the state, the insurance department and the perpetual care uh cemeteries group of the insurance department, but they said that they they have a good relationship with those folks and can provide reference references from uh and get written references if if needed from any of those groups.

But the the thing that I took away from that was is that you know if there is a private entity who is interested in exploring this possibility, that is something that we weren't familiar with a week ago and you know weren't necessarily contemplating as part of this process.

And whether that happens or not, I don't know.

But I think it it is worth exploring that idea to get more familiar with how that operates and if we like it or not, if we think it works, I mean works or not, but the but you know at that point then it could be a transfer of property from one private entity to another and then they operate it.

But the but you know, at that point then it could be a transfer of property from one private entity to another, and then they operate it.

And I don't know if that's a you know it's acceptable to our community.

I I we're they're going to be here anyway.

They're already operating a cemetery and have been for six or eight months right now.

And yeah, I think they I think they I think they got the authority to start operating in in February or something like that.

But I think you know the property records indicate that they acquired that property at Woodlawn Park in May or something like that.

So uh there that is something that I mean, and I and I I did.

I I found their website and afforded that to you all this this afternoon, just before I came over here.

But I hadn't spoken with those guys before today, I hadn't heard of them.

So that was unfamiliar to me uh before today.

So, you know, if that is a possibility, I think that's worth having a discussion about and learning what that means.

Um because even and frankly, even if that is a direction that we go and we go through that process and that operates for a number of years and then ultimately fails, then we're right back here.

And the you know, the some of the points that have made been made tonight is that the cemetery and the folks who are interred there, those those will always be here, and so will the city government.

So that will ultimately always be the fallback option if private entity doesn't uh can't make it go.

So that's my comments.

Thank you, Jeff.

Any other board members have any comments or questions?

Director George Cassavis?

Who actually owns the property right now?

Uh Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc., which is the nonprofit formed in 2025.

Did the bank you take that as collateral when they did the loans?

They took personal collateral of two people.

Personal collateral, yeah.

No collateral.

Well, not personal collateral, but personal guarantees, as well as the lien on the property.

Yeah, and the lien on the property.

Yes.

And was the equipment also uh collaterized?

I don't know that.

So he just gave a personal guarantee for the lines.

Not me.

No, I'm willing to two people did.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh Director Christina Cosovis.

So just to put it on record, how much money are we talking about per year?

150,000 plus or minus 50.

So 100 to 200,000 is the expected net deficit.

Okay.

Thank you.

The uh I guess the the other thought in the process is I want to say time is of the essence, but time is of the essence.

So we we we do need to consider that if people choose not to uh chip in and make payroll again, and the likelihood of that happening happening is extremely low, then within a very short period of time, there'll be no money to make payroll, and we will lock the gates, and it'll no services will occur, no people will be able to get in, and I have no earthly idea how long it will stay in that position, but my guess is the phone line's gonna get pretty hot and the calls aren't coming to us, you know.

So um I think there is an element there at play of an expectation of how are these going to be taken care of, how long will it take for somebody who's supposed to be buried next to their spouse and cemetery's closed, sorry.

Um that's the answer.

And I think that's a terrible answer.

What do Bienham is going to do?

Good question.

I don't know.

I mean they're they might be.

Sorry?

Can't bury your body because there's no room.

Because there's no one to operate the cemetery, and you can't go in and just dig a hole wherever you feel like in the cemetery.

Or I guess maybe you could if it's not governed if there's no management of the cemetery, then that could possibly happen too.

But you know, we're we're talking about a real real near-term black guy to go around for everybody if we don't take care of it.

And it's I get the budget constraints, and it honestly concerns me greatly when we're just so flippant with the idea that if it's a city cost, it should be double what it would be in the private sector.

And that to me as a citizen is just like what?

You know, our administration should own that and drive efficiencies, and I'm not saying that we don't, but that that idea that as a board we're okay with just to cost double because it's the city, come on.

I you know, I don't think that's a fair way to look at things in general, and I hope we don't look at the entire budget that way in general.

But you know, you guys have an important job, I get it.

And we're sitting at a deficit, I get it.

We're in business, we look at budgets and make decisions all the time.

But I'm telling you that for a couple hundred grand, if we don't find a spot for it, there will very soon be locks on the gates.

The next time payroll can't be made, and somebody needs to get buried in this hearst is sitting at the gate waiting to get in, nobody around take care of it.

They can call Little Rock and see what happens.

And I I don't have an a better answer than that, but that is the exact situation that we find ourselves in, and we don't like it.

But that's the deal.

I would say for me, my frustration is that, and and I'm very mindful of the budget, and we've been going through that.

The frustration for me is it seems like we find money for everything else.

You know, we find money for studies that a lot of times I feel like are unnecessary.

We find money for travel and different things.

These people have families.

You know, families that are visiting families that are burying people, and to tell those people we couldn't find money for this when we find money for everything else.

I I just can't reconcile that.

Uh Director Good and Director Kemp.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director Settle.

Um Director uh Christina Kazavitz, I agree.

Um good.

You know, we do find resources for everything else.

You know, we are a task, make hard decisions.

Um, but let me first start out by by thanking Ed Ross for taking the time to call me and and talk to this process for me uh with me.

You know, we heard your statements, and I want everyone to know that that his statements were not a threat.

This is just reality.

You know, if the money is not there, gates get closed and locked.

You know, there are a lot of different organizations that depend on these cemeteries.

You know, I I'm just at a loss of words right now, other than that, you know, we we've got to do something.

Oh, I don't remember what I was gonna ask.

I was gonna ask uh Mr.

Dingman.

Um how soon could we get a study session with this group?

Is that what is gonna be needed to find out if this group that you talked about uh in your email that you just referenced uh could um do the work because I think that it's really really important.

Director Christina Kassavid said that we're we're all invested in this, and we are, and I think it's much easier for organizations, nonprofits to get behind giving if they see the city doing their part.

You know, no nonprofit wants to carry the whole burden if the city has teeth in the game as well.

So I think we need to get some teeth in the game and work with this nonprofit or this agency or both.

But I think we need to have some kind of study session on how to make that happen.

But that's gonna call for us to take ownership of it.

Yeah, as far as timing of the study session, that can happen on our schedule.

I mean the gentleman I spoke with today indicated willingness to come and do that uh when that can be when that can be arranged if that's what we want to do.

They'll be here next week if we wanted them to.

I think that's what we need to do next week.

Are you advocating for like a special study session?

Special study session I call special study session next after our regularly scheduled meeting next week to discuss um potential private ownership of these three cemeteries.

If that's a motion, I'll second.

Okay.

I'll concur.

I'll concur.

Any other comments or questions for the two gentlemen?

Lee, you got anything anything else you want to say?

Um, I I think we come back to, as we talked about in our private meeting, in the moments of feeling the tension of needing to come to solution right away.

This is a great time to leverage the community nonprofits.

Um I think if somebody needs to be interned and they bought a plot, we need to be exploring how do we engage nonprofits to help in this, or if there's something that comes up.

Um I know that you all did not favor the idea of like churches helping in perpetuity because a long-term look, we need a more long-term option.

But I think that those things are short-term options.

I mean, if we're really at that crisis level, then I think it's time to engage the faith communities of Fort Smith and uh put a little onus on them.

Um as I told you all, I I stand ready to help as a leader of one of those.

Uh there are others that could be tasked, I am guaranteeing that we could pull upon as far as the conversation goes.

I like that we're expediting the conversation with the private group.

And I also think if we wanted to, we put a term within the property.

I don't know if this is possible, but it's a question of a deed restriction sort of thing.

We're we're holding them to a price match situation, and there can still be a friends of the Fort Smith Cemeteries nonprofit to help the new owner.

Um, but I think we need to explore all the options, and then I think if we want it bad, we'll get it bad.

So in the meantime, we need to leverage local nonprofits to step in who have a heart to care for the dead.

Thank you.

So just to be clear, are you advocating that the government set pricing for a private business?

We will be setting a private business pricing.

Well, I mean, we're talking about taking this on, but we already do that with cemeteries.

This is why I it's a sticky thing for me for us to think about it, but at the same time, if it's where we are, I mean, we may have to.

Because it sounds as if Fort Smith Cemeteries doesn't want to talk to this group because they're afraid of the rates going up.

No, we have talked to the group.

Okay.

Right.

I mean, he was in my office for three hours.

So yes, I I have had so it may need the stipulation of some sorts.

So the group in question is a private business, like a head fund or something.

Just a company out of Kentucky, I believe, or Tennessee, Kentucky.

I think.

And um I just think I think that there needs to be due diligence done on that.

And uh, you know, the state had some strong caution for us with regard to them.

I'm just trying to understand what Director Kemp is saying.

So you're saying that we should be setting the price for burial plots, even if it's privately owned.

Are you asking me the question?

Yeah, I'm asking you to clarify.

So the question that the statement I'm making is Director Martin said that this private group has come forward saying that they do price match.

And if that's the case, then we need to find a way to contractually make sure that they stand by that value of theirs.

So then the concerns of Fort Smith Cemeteries of prices going up and eye gouging or being uh unreasonable are mitigated in contractual form.

I'll say to that when when I of course I wasn't a big part of my discussion with them today.

I mean, it was on a cell phone call.

So it was but the they did speak to the fact that they uh set their pricing based on the local community and what and what the market is for the for those services in the community.

And you know, I remember and I've even mentioned to them that you know when we've as the city have contemplated rate adjustments for burial spaces or internment costs at Oak Cemetery.

We've paid attention to what does that what does that do in comparison with what these in particular these three cemeteries are charging so that we're not dramatically undercutting them, but we are providing a service that's maybe a little bit less than other than the privately owned perpetual care cemetery, just just for that purpose.

But I mean, they the discussion I had with them indicated that they were sensitive to setting price points, and because I think they assume that that would be part of our discussion, but they were sensitive as to setting their price points for their services and something that's palatable to the local community.

Right, but this is still a free market, they're a private business, they will set their pricing however they see fit.

The government does not this government does not regulate that, correct?

Okay.

Any other comments or questions from the board?

Seems like we'll be back next week at this day session into further.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you.

Uh to the board will go to item number two presentation initial survey data of the city of Fort Smith five-year consolidated plan.

Uh Jeff.

Sure.

Uh Candice Gabucci, our director of community development is coming to the podium to lead this discussion on the presentation of the survey data that the department conducted regarding to the city of Fort Smith's five-year consolidated plan.

Welcome, Candice.

Thank you very much for being here.

Uh, just so we all same page, this is the community block grant funding that we get from the federal government.

Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

Okay, thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

Your floor is yours, ma'am.

Good evening.

As a recipient of the community development block grant and home investment partnership funding, we are required to write a five-year consolidated plan to secure continued funding from HUD.

This plan outlines our city's goals and strategies and helps us take a closer look at housing, homelessness, public services, and other community development needs.

This plan serves as the application for HUD funds, demonstrating that future activities aligned with national objectives and local priorities.

In preparing the plan, our goal is to engage as many residents as possible, including public agencies, other city stakeholders, city leaders, and again as many residents as possible.

Tonight in your packet, we have included the first survey we put together to residents through uh channels like social media.

We've done two newspaper publications, gov delivery, direct email, and we've done paper surveys at every library branch.

The surveys ask questions regarding the current structure of the CDBG program, including funding preferences for each category, as well as questions on what priorities citizens would rank in regards to community needs, public services, housing assistance, and home funding.

And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions or take any comments you have in regards to the survey.

Thank you, ma'am.

To the board, any comments or questions?

Director Good?

Thank you, Director Settle.

Um, thank you, Candace, um, for being here.

Um, I really don't have any questions about the presentation.

Uh I understand um pretty much this process, but my question is uh for uh a people a couple of people that ask me and my own personal understanding, the loan programs for the what is the program?

It's the home where where a loan is given to uh a home program to help fix it up modified the housing assistance house housing assistant program.

Can you tell us and remind me again how that program works, how much of the requested amount or needed amount is given to the program, and how is a property owner uh responsible for paying it back, and then even upon death of the uh property owner, what happens to that loan?

Okay, so the housing assistance program is operated within our office.

Uh we do that in-house.

Uh that program comes funded through the CDBG grant.

That is about 30% of the grant.

So what we do is we operate a $15,000 grant.

On top of that is an optional $10,000 loan, so a total of $25,000.

Now the loan is interest-free and we work to set that loan based on what a client can pay back for it.

So if they need to exceed the $15,000 grant for repairs, then they can choose to take that loan and then we will draw the loan out and it's paid back into the program.

So any income that comes back in from the loan goes into the housing assistance program.

And again, that's a zero interest loan.

Uh the $15,000 grant uh does set a deed restriction.

So if someone were to get the grant and then need to sell their home two years later, then that is prorated, so we will take uh the remainder, they will need to pay that back if the home is sold.

Um if a honour excuse me, if a homeowner passes away, um our goal is to let the let the mortgage pass on to someone that is also low income.

So if a parent will the home to a surviving child and the child was also low income, then we move the mortgage over in the child's name.

Now, if the house goes into probate, then uh it's a case-by-case basis after that, but uh we do try to recoup the funding if the home gets sold on the open market, we do try to get that money back so it goes back into the program.

Okay.

Oh, well, thank you, and I really appreciate you um having this knowledge on point because I know it's not part of the uh the memo information, but I appreciate it.

Uh secondly or lastly, do you happen to know on an average how many um people apply for these loans and uh a year?

Um normally lately it's been just about every client we see.

Um not everyone obviously wants to take a loan.

We try to set a minimum payment of at least 20 to 20 to 25 dollars so it's affordable, but um since our grant slash loan has to stay under 25,000, um that money doesn't cover a lot of repairs these days.

Umce our program is just for health and safety issues, uh, when we see a roofing project come in or um an electrical rewire, those tend to hit really near the $25,000 mark.

So it gets tricky with that.

But yes, most of the clients we see lately are opting to take that loan on.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anything else, Andre?

No, sir.

Uh Director Martin.

Candice, um, thank you for sending that email to me.

So I'd asked Candace uh last night um if she could provide us with the number of homes that have been built through the CDSC.

That the CDSC or C, what is it?

C C S C C S C D Casten the most dollars, at least in my um my understanding, the most dollars, and it was it's somewhere probably north of two million dollars over the last five years that they've gotten um down payments, lot acquisition, and new construction.

So you sent me, I asked for pictures of those homes.

Sure.

And you sent those to me.

Is is 20 the number of new homes that they built.

Okay.

So you you 1.3 million dollars have been spent on new homes, new home construction.

So I'm that 1.3 million divided by 20 averages about 66,000 per home.

Um so I mean I just I was wanting to kind of make sure that we were getting you know that those things were were happening appropriately.

That number looks good to me.

My uh my question is, and and one of the things I've been I've talked about a lot is uh using these funds for economic development.

We we saw um where there was a I think it was out in Arizona, they used these CD, these C D BG and home funds to build a neighborhood grocery store in a uh uh in a food desert, a food desert area.

Um but I also looked at some other other places that um use these funds for a variety of of different things.

I mean, there's some there's some pretty creative uh uh things that they've done as it relates to blight, as it relates to economic development, those types of things.

Uh my question that maybe we haven't dealt with that before, but my my thought is let's let's let's try to get our our our committee, our our uh the the committee that uh what's the committee that makes the decision?

Uh CDAC.

The CDAC.

Let's get the CDAC committee on that.

There's some good people on there.

Let's get them on that and see if we can if we can drive um economic development throughout the city, um, the north side of the city, um heck anywhere.

Um I think we've we've got to explore that.

Um I you know the housing assistance, that kind of stuff.

That I'm um I I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but I think there's some things that we can do to kind of drive the uh uh you know economic growth in our city and then start new businesses, all kinds of those things.

So I I think I really want to look at that.

I didn't see that as much here.

Okay.

Any other director?

Director Good?

Thank you, Director Sol.

Um Director Martin, excellent, excellent comments.

Uh thank you, especially um talking about the the the food desert uh need, particularly on the north side with the Apple market going out of business, and then of course it had a new owner a couple of years ago and they went out of business.

So I don't know if the CDAC if these funds can do anything to drive a business or to help a business such as a fresh food market, a farmer's market, something on the north side of town.

Um but I think that's an excellent idea.

If possible, thank you.

Uh Director Kemp?

Thank you, Director Settle.

Uh Ms.

Kabucci, thank you so much.

Uh, when I was getting orientated, you explained what you do, and I thought it was really cool, and I thought it was the best kept secret that we might have going on.

And so I think one thing I would encourage us to think about is how do we you know tell the story along the way if and where we can, especially in collaboration with Mr.

Bufink, you know, would uh if there's something we can appropriately identify um in ways to help understand and tell what you guys are doing or working on or thinking about doing I really appreciate that.

And also I just had a question.

Uh I know the faith community had ordered organized an event for teenagers called World Changers, and that had happened and was able to help several blighted properties through the program dollars you have.

Is there any talk of that coming back or something like that being hosted in Fort Smith?

Uh we we have worked with World Changers for about 13 years now, and uh it's my understanding that they are gonna come back.

I know that their chair had retired, um our con our Fort Smith contact had retired, but I think that they're going to have someone else lead that charge.

They've reached out to me.

That person who reached out to me and had mentioned, yeah, we're coming back at it.

And I was wondering if they had reached out to you, because I think that's a great opportunity as well.

And if if they were coming, is there any way for us to get out in front of that and uh communicate through certain channels of the social media if people could have a need that qualifies within those parameters to how to get in touch and receive the help and the and the program help of that event?

Thank you so much.

Absolutely.

Any other director with any comments?

Uh now it's me.

Um I got a couple of questions, Candice.

Uh Josh, can you go to page 27, please?

Thank you.

You know, Candice, this is this was a very interesting graph here, and uh the data is behind it, and says, you know, please rank the public service activities one being the top priority and the one being the lowest.

Senior services was number one.

Um read this.

Services for personal disabilities was two, youth services was three, and child care was four.

What surprised me was services for victims of domestic violence was almost at the bottom.

And so my question is, is can the funds for community block grants be used for victims of domestic violence?

Is it they that funds can be used at right?

Yes.

You know, I think we should do everything we can for the kids of the community.

Help homeless families, seniors.

And so that's where I want to go with this is how do we enhance the kids of the community?

How do we help Hamilton House that needs help that helps with that?

Can that can the Hamilton House apply for grants in this on on this here?

Uh they receive funding from us currently.

But how do we how do we give them more?

How do we do more for the boys and girls clubs?

How do we do for more for the girls' shelters or the boys' shelters?

Those are all advocacy groups that we can do.

How do we do more for homeless for families that have young kids?

How do we do more for seniors?

To me, that's where I think this this whole community block grant should go is to how do we help the people that need the help?

The kids, the families, the seniors.

That's where I would like to go with this.

That's this is by waiting five years, because you know it comes every five years.

That's where I think we should we should direct this even more.

I I I like the economic development, I get that, and I understand that too.

And I'm okay with taking some of that, but how do you how do you not help a kid?

And it was interesting seeing the top top five, you know, top four in the graph, and um for all the everything that I you know wanted to do.

I I thought the help in domestic violence should be up higher because that's what we should be doing.

Um that's my comments is if you want to take my comments back, and I'm one of one person of seven up here, uh, is that we should be doing everything to help the youth of the area, the boys and girls club, the girls' shelter, the boys shelter, uh, the Hamilton House, homeless with families, senior citizens.

That's where I think we should go with all this.

And that let the ships fall where everything else falls after that.

But that's one of seven, and I'll respect the board's wishes going forward, but that's where I'd like to go with this.

Um it's hard to look a kid in the eye when his palm's unemployed and it's almost homeless.

It's it's it's how do we how do we make the city better for our kids?

How do we do how to do activities?

We're doing a lot with parks and things to make the activities better for our kids and families.

Uh but how do we take this one step further and maybe rearrange some priorities that we're doing today?

So that's my two cents.

Director Martin.

Yeah, I think someone's gonna come speak to us tonight about Hamilton House.

So uh it's timely, Director Settle.

So uh could you explain to me the categories?

That's where I was confused because I saw uh the the piece about community service, but then there's uh public service and there and are the can do those dollars have to be um allocated amongst the categories or could it all go to one category?

And just for everybody's benefit, these are these these are federal dollars that are sent out for home and C D BG.

Is that that correct?

This is 100 percent federal funded pieces.

And if I can get back to the case, I just I I was a little unclear about the about the the categories and how money gets allocated to each.

So when we say community services in the survey, that's more of a broad term.

But the surveys that you see in the pie chart, um public service, which is what a lot of your uh agencies that serve homeless, that serve children, that serve elderly, they're coming to us in that public service category.

Unfortunately, it's the category that um HUD has regulated, so it's a statutory percentage.

It cannot go over 15 percent of our grant.

We've argued to make that higher, but we've not yet been successful.

But uh public service is capped at 15 percent of the entire community development block grant.

And and how much so like let's say Hamilton House, for instance, max that could have uh around all the all the entities that want to get dollars is 15 percent.

What's the what's the top number?

What's so the top number we're looking at uh most recently this 2025 780,000.

780k, so these public service agencies are looking at just above maybe 120,000, 117,000 to divvy up between all of these public service agencies, including Hamilton House.

Now what we do uh and what was a priority of the previous five-year plan was we cap that ask at 20,000 so that we didn't have one agency coming in and sweeping the entire category.

We do set a minimum of 5,000, but if someone like Hamilton House did come in through the public service category, the max that they could ask for would be 20,000 in that.

Uh the community.

And and who's who is that is that a rule that you guys have set, or is that a rule is that is that something we can adjust?

In-house is where we set the $20,000 cap.

That can be adjusted.

But the 15% cannot be adjusted.

But the 15% is statutory that we cannot.

Is that something we could reach out to our congressman and senators?

And we have, yes, and we would encourage that.

It's um it's important.

So 780K is the match.

Yes.

Okay.

780,000 is what we received in 2025 for the community development block grant.

So there is the public service category.

There is the community development category, which is not a statutory percentage.

Um that is 62.5% of our grant.

So of that 62.5, we've got about uh 34 percent is that housing assistance program that I discussed earlier that we operate in-house.

And then the rest of that is for projects like lot acquisitions, um, and then part of that goes to agencies.

Right now, it's just homeless agencies looking for agency real rehabilitation.

So previous projects might look like the Hope campus came in for some agency rehab, um, next up day room for some agency rehab, things like that.

Uh agencies that serve overnight clients.

Um that's that category.

And then we have 20 percent admin, which is also statutory, that's capped by the government, and then unprogrammed is just for cost overrun for projects.

That's just 2.5 percent.

Director Martin, anything else?

Uh no.

Thank you, Candace.

Any other board members with any comments or questions?

Director Kemp?

Thank you, Director Sill.

Uh Ms.

Kabucci, is there a way to grow the dollars that we get to allocate across these causes?

Um, and what would be the things that and how would we how would we structure ourselves in a way to go for those dollars uh greater dollars coming to our community?

So I I will just say it's it's just based on the government, the administration, um what is priority during that administration?

I uh we regularly reach out to our state representatives back in the spring.

We invited our state reps here for a tour.

We took them by our new construction, we took them by agencies who uh Sharon took them on a tour of the Buddy Smith home.

Uh we show them these projects here on their home turf so that they can see I believe we had folks from Bozeman's office and from WOMAC's office, and they come here and see those projects, and we think that's more meaningful.

Um we do have a national agency that uh discusses these projects, and it's the national community development organization.

Um they go advocate for these programs too because the need is great and the money gets out really quickly, in my opinion.

So, yes, we encourage everyone to talk to state reps, and that's where the opinions matter for this grant.

Thank you.

Other comments or questions for Director Could?

Kenneth, um, in past years um the amount of money um federal money given for these programs have been cut.

With the current administration, have those funds been cut even further, or are they remaining the same?

We're pretty flat right now.

Um it's been threatened several times.

Uh so you know, we always keep a watchful eye.

Um there's a proposal to cut home funding, which uh we get about 360,000 right now in home funding.

There's been a proposal to cut that.

So yeah, we're just we're trying to be hopeful.

Thank you.

See another fun cra questions or comments from the board?

Candace, thank you very much for your time.

Appreciate it so much.

To the board.

Uh we'll go to item number three discussion regarding policies of non-consent towing procedures.

Jeff's this uh discussion was asked uh to be placed on the study session for discussion by Director Riga, who unfortunately isn't here this evening.

Um but in terms of um without knowing particularly where that direction uh where the disc the discussion is supposed to go, I thought I'd ask uh start with Chief Baker uh or the members from the police department to refresh as to what the current policy is and how we operate that process, if the chief wouldn't mind I'm calling him on on the spot here, but just to uh to refresh the board what we what we how we currently operate and what we currently do.

Good evening.

I apologize for uh not being prepared, but I really don't know the reason that this was called for discussion again.

It was not by any prompting at the police department.

If you'll recall, I believe it was in August of 2024, over a year ago, we uh presented the idea of going to a single source towing, had quite a robust discussion about it.

Um got quite a lot of feedback from towing companies and individuals in the community, and as a result of that, we modified our policies within the police department to address some of our concerns.

Um as far as I know, everything's been working fine.

Um I haven't had any complaints or issues brought to me by my staff.

Uh so uh some of the changes that we made uh to the policy was uh we uh I'm drawing a blank.

We um inserted uh uh a uh paragraph that required each individual towing company uh to have its own uh business license, unique business name and business license.

And then the other um I want to keep drawing a blank on this.

It was the it was the uh one of the biggest issues.

Inspections.

I'm sorry.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

We we started uh accepting the state police uh inspections of the records rather than doing them ourselves, so that freed up a lot of our uh manpower issues there.

Um but outside of that, I guess I'm open for any questions or curious if this was prompted by some specific issue or complaint.

All right, director Martin and then Director Kemp.

There's still 24 companies that are I think there's 27.

Okay, so it's count.

I I went back and listened to the the meeting back in uh August and uh I think it was twenty-four at the time, so maybe it's risen a little bit.

But yeah, you did make mention of or I think that was uh the the uh the lawyer that was here that that uh can't remember his name um that spoke and and said just we were doing double work.

So I appreciate you guys doing that.

Thank you.

Hi, Director Kemp.

Yeah, thank you.

Um I did being award three, did hear from several of my constituents that own tow truck businesses, and uh I I didn't understand the nature of why this was on our agenda as well.

I I actually remember attending the crowd, I think it was Mr.

Cronister was the lawyer that spoke uh in advocating, and I remember meeting several of the uh owners of those uh businesses that are there.

Um just in the spirit of what was provided to me, I'll pass this around.

Um, and there are two documents that were given to me uh by a businessman.

Um just one I want to remind us of is uh as they're coming around is the and this is what you I think we remember coming to resolution on was to leverage the Arkansas towing board that the state has and the regulations that they have on these businesses is pretty robust.

And what I've been reminded of is that many of these tow truck business every year have to re-up with the Arkansas Towing Board, and each of those tow truck businesses are required to have a sign that's 16 by 20 that has the detailed information, which is pictured here now to each of the board members having uh an unresolved complaint with this tow company may be filed with Arkansas Towing Board.

Oh, towing recovery board has the information per state law and uh the state police when they visit are looking for this sign.

And then furthermore, uh Wilson Towing provided just a sample receipt or invoice, not a receipt, that has a stamp that's circled in red, and this the towing board this year enacted some legislation or ruling or regulation, I guess, where they have to stamp every invoice that says the same information that their sign would say on the invoice.

So if someone is being overcharged and they call, the Arkansas Towing Board does not take that lightly.

They go drop in on these guys and they they look at everything uh with the threat, and those guys seem to have all respect for the Arkansas Towing Board because they can take their business license away until matters are resolved.

So I think the fact that we've added to our rotation, um, I never heard anything negative about that, but it may speak to the idea that it works if we've added to it.

Um if there was concerns about being uh uh something we need to make a change, perhaps we might say if it's working good, we'll hold here for now.

But I've not heard any uh business advocate for that.

They just advocated and the phrase I heard was over and over from different individuals was if it's not broke, let's don't fix it.

And so uh Chief, if you don't feel like it's broke, and I I don't feel like it's broke.

The only concern I've ever had, and I've told these guys when I've talked to them, is uh, and it's not theirs to be concerned with, in my opinion.

You know, we see sometimes at an accident, maybe some parts just in the midst of all the chaos, getting traffic cleared up again, and there's some leftover parts.

Um, you know, making sure that our police officers look at it, and if we need to call a truck back and say, hey, you know, we didn't realize it, but there's a there's a rear clip here that's left, and it got you know pushed over here by the stop light.

Uh but but even then when I've called those things in, those things are all been cleaned up and taken care of.

So I don't I don't particularly know the spirit of it, but I promised that I would share this information about how the Arkansas Towing and Recovery Board is on top of these businesses at all times.

And furthermore, the state police does their due diligence when they come through there.

They they do it with kind of a white glove, so to speak.

So those are my comments.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh Director George Cassavas?

How many towing?

I'm sorry.

How many towing calls do we get a day?

Uh the the a day.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm trying to recall the numbers that we had in August of last year, but it was uh somewhere around 45 or 47 calls per month per record service, I believe.

That's correct.

Per month.

I'm I'm trying to remember a year ago, but yeah, it's I mean it's in the thousands yearly.

I know that one of the business owners I talked to said this is 40 percent of his business.

Yeah, I know.

Well, yeah, I know.

So to get to to get on the list of tow, you have to go through as Mr.

Kemp said the recovery service.

There's an application process with the state, and they have to they have to be inspected, and then I mean we have policies at the police department that they have to comply with.

But uh, I mean, our our primary concern uh at this point is when we call for a record service, it arrives, it's legal, it takes care of business, and we get on down the road.

And it's to be there to a certain time, doesn't it?

Twenty minutes or something.

Yes, sir, by policy.

And if we don't get one soon enough, we go to the next one, and it's it's up to the management to if they if they want to follow up with the complaint.

Uh I and I don't I I can't recall any instance in the in the near past where we've initiated a complaint uh with with the towing association.

But I mean, like I said, we we made some adjustments to our policies a year ago.

Um I've not heard of any issues since then.

Uh the number of of records that we have in a rotation is somewhat of an anomaly in the state, but as was said, it seems to be working.

So as long as they show up and have their stuff squared in the case.

Do you know of uh not uh not a single source, but I think Little Rock, remember we looked at them and they had maybe five.

Um I can't I don't recall any that were uh a single it would be it would be less paperwork on the PD though, wouldn't it?

Uh having a single single I mean lead less less record companies that we would have to keep watch over but thank you Chief.

Uh Director Christina Savis.

So the um invoice that Director Kent provided us is for a company based out of Oklahoma.

So who governs that if people had complaints would they be complaining to Oklahoma or Arkansas?

Well it shouldn't be a Oklahoma based company operating in Arkansas.

Just for clarity that's Wilson towing that's their PO box their business location is on Towson Avenue and Bamber in Arkansas multiple locations.

Because complaints may be addressed to the Oklahoma Corporation Commission Transportation Division.

Mr Wilson would you like to come and address the invoice please thank you.

Thank you Chief Baker.

Mr.

Wilson thank you for being here.

Thank you I think I could if I may uh ladies and gentlemen of the board uh towing operators that are here uh consider it a uh privilege to be able to tow for the city of Fort Smith and the Fort Smith police we come in here with uh gratitude and gratefulness for the opportunity as far as to address uh Ms.

Ms.

Kissa's question uh Wilson towing uh is Wilson Toyne LLC is an Oklahoma LLC and then and the reason uh that is I'm I told for both states I I've told for 10 locations and um started in Fort Smith and in order to uh be in uh Oklahoma had to have an LLC because I'm a resident of Fort Smith, Arkansas for over 35 years.

And um so um I have to pay the Secretary of State or whoever it is in uh in Oklahoma and then also I'm recognizing Arkansas as a foreign entity or LLC, however you might say it, and have to pay them down there too.

So that's the reason for the LLC and plus the uh that's what my tax guy told me to do.

And also on this uh if may I elaborate?

Yes sir Mr.

Wilson thank you very much.

Mr.

Director Kemp I still have the floor my apologies certainly you may elaborate.

I'm sorry about that.

No no that's fine I just want to make certain I have the floor.

I'm sorry.

Does everyone understand that I'm not leading the meeting thank you.

No it seems like you are Christina Mr.

Wilson would you please allow thank you very much I will say that the um concur with the chief that the the oh the Arkansas Toying and Recovery Board controls the pricing, the procedures, the requirements with with razor sharp um they don't let us fool around okay if someone complains about anything and that's if you'll notice on the the papers that I brought that's that the that have a stamp on our invoice and also the large sign that has to be when first thing you see and you walk in the door.

You know if there's any kind of complaint that that about us if you know something missing out of your car you got in a truck with a lady and it stunk the guy was customer you can complain about anything to this to this uh Arkansas Autin and recovery board and they're gonna uh address us someone that gets accused of overcharging someone the the way that they handle it is on a regional basis based on you know our our area compared to Texas or Little Rock and if someone complains hey this guy charged me too much well they will anonymously contact at least a half a dozen records in our region and give them the uh scenario of what would you charge for this?

So the the rates aren't regulated?

No, they're regulated by the they would be regulated if if the board thought that we overcharged somebody be regulated right then.

And it's based on the the average of the rates in your area in our region which uh if you was to Google the national charges and what we are we're quite a bit under it.

Okay.

Because I you know I've gotten a little bit of feedback about this.

Um Chief can you speak to when you Mr Wilson thank you.

Thank you sir for your time.

Chief can you speak see when you brought this to us the first time I felt like you were really uh advocating for it and I what was the reasoning behind that?

Well, what prompted the entire um conversation was um an internal audit that examined our policies and the way that towing was being conducted in Fort Smith.

I had requested the audit after uh several complaints that we were not towing enough vehicles or that we were allowing people that uh should should have their vehicle towed, not not calling and having the vehicle towed.

And the recommendation, one of the recommendations in that audit was a uh contracting with a single um towing corporation.

There were there was another recommendation that involved dividing the city into four quadrants and uh basically assigning a certain number of records to each one of the four quadrants, but that wasn't feasible.

Most of the record services in Fort Smith are generally located on or along Towson Avenue or zero, so there would be areas of the city that wouldn't be represented.

Uh there was also recommended recommendations of standardizing fees.

Um we did we advocated at that time for uh for doing that uh just simply so that it would ensure equitable um services were provided.

Uh I have concern about you know somebody calling the police department or I'm sorry, us towing uh non-consent uh non-consent tow and it being a roll of the dice, the record rotation about what somebody might be charged.

Do you think on which a range of what they might be charged?

I did at that time, and we keep a schedule of that.

Uh but as Mr.

Wilson uh was saying, and has and and I have had discussions with my own folks um since then.

Um I think most of the fees uh in Fort Smith are now with what's considerable considered a reasonable range.

They don't all have the same set fees.

Um to his point, if there were a complaint about the fee, somebody being charged too much or not being charged the same as somebody else, that complaint could go to the the state towing association.

Um I can't speak to the veracity of you know whether they would uh address that in a timely manner or how they would address it.

Um I just simply don't know that we have that many complaints.

Uh but I mean we we attempted to uh implement the recommendations of the audit, and as I said, as you remember, there was quite a bit of pushback against that, and so we made modifications that would help our situation at the police department uh and have pretty much backed away from it since then.

Okay, that's all for me.

Thank you.

Thank you, Christina.

Anything else from board members?

That no, thank you very much, Chief.

That's that's all thank you very much.

Thank you.

We'll get on four review of the plenary agenda for the meeting next week.

Um we did have that that's in front of our desk.

If anybody's got any questions, um please let Jeff administration know.

With that, we'll go to Citizens Forum.

Uh each member of the public that signed up with the city clerk can have five minutes to speak on any subject.

So that we'll go to Sherry.

Thank you very much for you if you're attendance to the people that were here.

Ms.

Sherry, we'll ask you to call the first um citizen up for public comment.

Yes, uh first we'll have Kim uh Kim Fodge.

Again, we'll each will have five minutes.

Eight so far.

Ms.

Fogg, you have five minutes.

Thank you very much for coming.

Good evening.

Um November 21st, I sent an email to the board of directors about my concerns about the sanitation rates.

I didn't get a response or any acknowledgement, so I am going to address my email, what I said in my email tonight.

Um, with the vote to approve the ordinance on November 18th as a commercial customer with the two cubic yard dumpster.

Village Harbor Property Owners Association sanitation charges will increase 23 percent beginning in 2026.

For clarification, Village Harbor Property Owners Association is charged commercial rates for water, sewer, and sanitation services from the City of Fort Smith.

We currently have a two-cubic yard dumpster that we use we dispose trash in, and the city picks up weekly on Thursdays.

On occasion, due to large events at our facilities, we schedule extra pickups because of the volume of trash that we experience and to prevent overflow issues.

We understand that there's an additional fee for these extra pickups, and we do accept those additional fees.

Currently, before taxes, we're charged $52.87 per month for the two cubic yard dumpster.

I spoke with Mr.

McDonald, the director of the Department of Solid Waste Services on two separate occasions, in which he addressed my questions and concerns about the new rates.

During my conversations with Mr.

McDonald, he confirmed that the rate increases will either reflect the CPIU of the most recent 12-month period or 5%, which is over whichever is less.

According to the November 13th, 2025 memorandum, Mr.

McDonald sent to Mr.

Dingman it in the meeting packet under the CPI adjustment.

It states for landfill disposal and commercial industrial services rates.

The adjustments would take effect on January 1 of each year starting in 2027.

I spoke with another gentleman with my conversations with Mr.

Mr.

McDonald, and he confirmed that the rate increase would take effect January 1, 2026, and will be $65.20 per month before taxes.

Mr.

McDonald informed me that these new charges would indeed take effect on January 1, 2026.

And beginning January 1, 2027, the CPI or the 5% increases would occur.

In my opinion, this contradicts what was mentioned in the memorandum, which states the increases would take effect until 2027.

Previously, the charge per cubic yard per pickup for a two-cubic yard container was $6.11.

It is now $7.53.

On top of the 23% initial increase, the commercial container system charges will also be subject to the annual CPIU or 5% rate increase as noted in the new ordinance under D10.

This was confirmed by Mr.

McDonald as well.

A 23% increase is certainly more than what I think the board was led to believe, and how it was worded in the memorandum to Mr.

Dieman.

Depending on the rate of increase or adjustments, on average, the CPI has been approximately 3%.

In the next four years, we are looking at an increase of 39 to 50 percent for sanitation services alone.

This does not include the 35 to 57 percent increase we've already experienced from the water and sewer rates that were recently passed.

As currently written, the sanitation rate increases are perpetual, meaning there is no end time to these increases.

These perpetual rate increases are a lot for small businesses to bear, especially nonprofits like us who are limited in the resources we can generate revenue from.

If these rate increases continue unabated, we will have to raise our annual dues, which will impact additional utility customers and residents.

Fort Smith customers, residents, and businesses bear the burden for the water, sewer, and sanitation increases while the city continues to undercharge our valuable resources to non-residents and businesses.

City directors have stated on several occasions they want businesses and people to move to Fort Smith, but the constant rate increases for Fort Smith customers, and along with poor spending.

Include an end date to these rate increases that will allow the board to review them and determine if they are still necessary, and begin to adequately charge non-residents and businesses for sanitation and utility services.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Fodge.

City Clerk, Sherry.

Next we have Ryan Rose, State Representative.

Welcome to the City of Fort Smith.

Yeah, five minutes, sir.

Thank you very much for coming.

Directors, thank you for your time.

I want to make clear that I am appealing to you and in no way, shape, or form am I suggesting you do something.

I'm just asking for you to consider it.

I'm crossing lanes here a little bit from the legislative side into city government side, but I believe it's for a very worthy cause, which you've already spoken on briefly this evening.

Over the past few months, I have spent a considerable amount of time focusing on raising awareness and working to raise funds for the Hamilton Center for Child Advocacy here in Fort Smith.

I think it's an important distinction to make when uh we hear the name Hamilton House, Hamilton Center.

Uh it was previously named the Hamilton House.

It is now the Hamilton Center for Child Advoc Advocacy purely for an understanding component.

This is not a home for children in a crisis.

Uh however, it is a center that is part of a multidisciplinary team that is crucial to child abuse investigations across our region.

Uh just in this calendar year, uh they have worked with over a thousand different children who have been abused in our immediate area.

Uh the executive director, Lori Burnett gave me a great definition for what the Hamilton Center is.

A child advocacy center isn't just another nonprofit.

It's part of the city's public safety and child protection infrastructure, like a specialized extension of law enforcement, prosecution, and emergency response, except it is built specifically for children.

Uh to touch on the CBDG that was discussed earlier.

Uh they were grateful to be awarded 17,000.

That's roughly $75 per child for case management, is what that comes out to.

And they submitted an invoice for 175 children for July through October, which totaled a little over $13,000.

So I know they're grateful for the funds and they utilize them uh quite well.

Now, also I have no vested interest.

I'm not a board member.

I don't have a family member or somebody close to me who works for the center.

My interest, I believe, will be aligned with yours is that they serve the children and families of the River Valley.

Uh they have lost the uh significant majority of their funding, which is in terms of some federal grant funding and then some TANF funding for those who aren't familiar with the acronym, TANF temporary assistance for needy families.

There were some realignments that were made in the way TANF is awarded.

Uh there were some shifts in how DHS uh was distributing those funds, and then VOCA, VOCA uh Victims of Crime Act funding.

And if I understand correctly, those aren't tax dollars, those are actually funds that are collected through fines and fees of criminals, if I understand correctly.

And then those are awarded.

That money has simply run out.

There were some other uh I think benefits from some COVID monies that are no longer available.

They've been spent down.

I don't want to get into the particulars of what their annual budget is.

It's quite lean and quite meager.

Uh they're short staffed, and they're doing an excellent job with what they have.

Uh but suffices to say that I think 75 to 80 plus percent of their budget is gone.

And it's been publicized in the media that I think roughly in about six months, if if something doesn't happen, they'll no longer exist.

Now we have seen some CACs, child advocacy centers uh close or furlough their staffs around the state.

And so this is a problem that is existing around the state.

I'm down to about 60 seconds, so I'm gonna try and wrap this up.

I'd be glad to answer any questions, of course.

Uh I am appealing to you as well as other city councils and other quorum courts in our region to consider issuing one-time grant.

Short-term assistance was a term I heard that you guys used.

From the legislative side, we're working on a long-term solution.

Uh but that's something that is probably going to be staved off until a fiscal session.

And even then it's going to be our, you know, our the way our budget works.

It's uh July to July would be when we could get some funding, possibly in play for the center.

So I'm appealing to city governments and county governments to consider issuing some one-time grants to help.

Now I'm rallying donors and elected officials and other community leaders, along with the center is doing an excellent job of this, to try and find support to extend their runway so that the timeline for them to run out of funds is longer so that we can get a long-term solution in place.

So my appeal to you uh would be to come to the center.

I'd be glad to connect you with the director and help you learn more about how they uh protect children and serve families in our area.

Thank you very much.

Any comments or questions?

We appreciate your time.

Thank you very much for coming.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Next, we have Joe Elskin.

Hi, thanks for this time.

It's hard to follow that.

I'm speaking to the purpose of citizen forums as I have recently.

And I think citizens' forums should be to facilitate communication that could improve the city.

And so I think that over the last few years, more citizens are coming and speaking.

I'm so happy for that engagement so important.

But I also feel like some boundaries need to be spoken, uh delineated.

I think that citizens want improvement, but how they do it, they may need to be guided in that.

We've had uh some situations in which people spoke so harshly and not bounded by facts but by emotions.

And uh and then I remember one of my favorite ones was a young man who following a very uh rowdy session, uh simply wanted the city to uh improve biking in his neighborhood, and instead of complaining or being critical, he simply said, hey, you know, how about shallours or it was something like that, and the board just lit up because instead of being contentious, he was offering information and he was offering uh an economical solution.

Now I know I know a lot of my thoughts are um you know too big for this year.

The money is not there, and I respect that, but I think we need to keep considering things like the leadership of a city to the north that has like 20 EV stations, 20 EV chargers, and is expanding their park system, improving that part of their citizens' lives.

Um also Baptist Health has uh is about ready to uh institute a the final steps in a uh very uh progressive solar field that will cover most of their energy use.

So um I think things like that are out of our budget, but they shouldn't be out of our target.

Um I have to be patient and realistic about those things, and because you guys are in a no-win situation.

You uh threading the needle between economic growth that is necessary for the city, investments, um, but also liabilities like the cemeteries.

I mean, that's a historical commitment.

Um the consent degree and of course our rising debt because of expenses just skyrocketing insurance, I think is the biggest thing.

Um so that brings me full circle to the purpose of citizen comments.

I think that you should help people, guide people, that they should be informative, not personal attacks.

Anyone who has been personally attacked knows that it doesn't solve the problem.

Um, it doesn't change ideas, it cements our emotions in a very non-problem solving way.

Um I respectfully request that personal attacks no longer be allowed.

So, how do you do that?

When the line is crossed, the gavel can fall, the mic can be turned off.

Directors could interrupt and ask for context and facts rather than insinuations.

Uh I think we all need to be reminded to talk respectfully and listen respectfully and know that you all are doing your best in an challenging world, a very challenging world.

So I also think that citizens should finish in three minutes, and I certainly didn't do that.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Ms.

Elskin.

Next we have Molly H.

Averia.

Thank you for coming.

You have five minutes.

Thank you, Molly.

In the meantime, while I'm pulling it up, thank you again, Director Settle, for your light show.

We enjoyed that the other night.

Glad you did, thank you.

Um so thank you for allowing me to speak once again on this vital issue consider um concerning the the cemeteries.

Um as we continue discussing the request from Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

uh regarding those cemeteries mentioned.

That ensuring I agree that uh ensuring dignified well-maintained uh places to uh to visit and you know uh you know for our final resting places um my concern is that I also don't have the answers.

Um I'm not sure what the solution is in regard to the need that is presented to this uh city, but um my concern is that we do like these these big projects like um of course the slides that you're never gonna live down um and but there's also millions that have been poured into the parks um for these large scale improvements instead of just uh minor upgrades.

You know, Oak Cemetery is our own public um cemetery with historic significance.

Um I visited there last month, I do frequently visit um since I have family there.

Um I had to take the the south road that's parallel to O, and it's of course terrible.

Um you know driving through that you're forced to a slow crawl because you know there's there's a large deep pot hole and it's it's not kept well.

Um so there's that, and then at the base of the hill is where my plots are.

Um that's who that's where I go to visit my family.

Um there's an unsightly grate that you have to cross to get on the other side of of that the the ravine where the the drainage is.

I did see that um that retaining wall was improved, but there's there's um there's that grate that you have to cross and there's no handrails.

Um personally I have to walk over with somebody.

I have depth perception issues.

And you know, that's that's a liability.

Um plus it's unsightly.

Um these are preventable issues.

They don't require you know multi-million dollar improvements, just upgrades.

So part of the issue that I'm addressing is um fiscal stewardship needs to be considered uh when it comes to who it is that you consider for a city director.

Um my biggest issue not only are the practical issues that need to be addressed at Oak Cemetery, but then of course, whether it be that you um decide to go forward with the other cemeteries or are forced to.

Um we don't take care of what is currently present at um oak cemetery.

Um the the roads or you know, there's a lot of those historical markers that have shifted, it happens, but there there's no plan to to try and improve that.

So um my concern is that the city likes these these big and I speak generally, um nobody is specific, but uh you like these these big flashy projects like the like the big upgrades to the parks or other you know Creek Moor or any other projects, but um when it actually comes down to these crises with the the cemeteries or other needs, those aren't met because we um are more concerned about the big projects.

So I'm just you know consider somebody who's more fiscally responsible when it comes to city director.

Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

Next we have Crystal Cadelli.

Welcome, Ms.

Cadelli.

You have five minutes.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much.

Well, it's hard to believe that this is the final citizens forum of the year.

Reflecting on the past months, it's it's been quite the roller coaster.

Um a lot of um hard decisions, uh, a lot of um issues, and um, you know, I feel like there has been a good shift in the board as far as looking out for the people.

There are a few more that I would like to um you know rise up to the occasion of being uh on the on the citizen side and being financially responsible.

Um, you know, I feel like this, you know, as a leader, you are um servants to the people that you represent, and I feel like transparency is very important.

I think the residents should have a voice, and I think that it's extremely important that this board hears our voice.

Um, I don't think our time limit should be cut short.

Um, I think once a month, five minutes is sometimes not even long enough.

Um, I was heartbroken last week when the director of the senior senior citizens center reported that they are feeding 600 senior citizens, and that 60 are still on the waiting list that they cannot get to.

Um, for me, um, I struggle with the fact that we are spending money that doesn't need to be spended, that we didn't put a pause on the parks budget to see if we could figure out what um we should do with the slides that are decaying on the ground, that we don't know what we're gonna do with our cemeteries, and you know, I feel like that parks budget should have been paused because the capital um 1-8 sales tax is supposed to be used for things like the water slide, and that money should be back in the general fund so we can help the senior citizens.

We can help uh the Hamilton Center, we can help you know, from raising the water and sewer rates.

We can help our consent decree, we can help our um failing infrastructure, our drainage issues.

You know, it's just very disheartening when uh article comes out just a few days later on yay.

Let's see what we're gonna do with the ACME uh brick property, a new park.

Do you think that that excites people?

No, it discourages people because they're struggling, they're struggling to feed their family, they're struggling to pay their utilities, and senior citizens can't go out and get a job.

The elderly cannot make more money.

So, what are they gonna do?

They're gonna be hungry or they're gonna be cold.

And I just, you know, I really think that it's time that we redirect our attention on what is important, and what is important is the people of the city.

Parks aren't gonna bring people in, jobs are gonna bring people in.

If you want this city to grow, then you need to bring in businesses.

You know, I I feel like we need to sell all the unoccupied properties and put that money back in the general fund.

I think that we need to make a decision on the slides, either sell them or erect them.

If we're gonna erect them, pull it out of parks.

And I really feel like we need to do a national search for a financially conservative city administrator, someone that's not going to be pressured by local powers, someone that's gonna do the right thing for the people.

And I want to thank Christina, George, and Neil for always voting for the people for fighting for us, for knowing what's important, and um being cautious when you're unsure.

So thank you very much.

Next we have Chris Cadelli.

Welcome, Mr.

Cadelli.

You have five minutes to speak.

Thank you for being here.

Good evening, and and thank you for the time.

Um I do want to um take this uh time to talk about um a concern.

I do want to um take this uh time to talk about a concern.

Um I'd like to start by addressing a concern over something that occurred at last week's meeting, and then we had it come up again tonight uh during this citizens forum.

Uh we had a fellow citizen stand at this podium and accuse other citizens of attacking board directors.

I've attended nearly every meeting for the last year and a half.

I have yet to see anyone attacked.

Um she then went on to suggest the board should consider cutting citizens off from criticizing a board director like they do in other cities.

Really, uh, you know, which which cities in this great country are trampling on their citizens' First Amendment rights.

Scrutiny, disagreement, and criticism of a public official does not constitute a personal attack.

I've listened to this audience member address the board on many occasions, and while I rarely agree with any of her positions, I certainly respect the participation and would be opposed to any interruption or reduction in the time allotted for her or anyone else to address the board.

Secondly, I I would like to support the hiring of a national search for search firm to help the city find a city administrator.

This will help expand the field of candidates for this uh vitally important position.

I appreciate the time.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Next we have Dan Williams.

Welcome, Mr.

Williams.

Yeah, five minutes to speak.

Thank you for being so much.

Good evening, board.

I appreciate the time that y'all have given us uh this evening.

Just a couple of comments.

One, um, you know, last uh last year at this time we had 811 active water leaks.

I think it's down to 177.

Uh that is great news, I believe, for what's happening here.

Uh originally I got involved because of the water leaks.

There was a lot of water leaks, and I went to the first meeting and there was a handful of citizens, I think about 11 of us that showed up.

And that was the first time I got involved, and uh I've been here every since.

It's been over two years.

Um my challenge, I guess, tonight is how can we continue to be a voice that helps and not always not always in a negative tone.

It is challenging because I believe there is a lot of frustration and when you deal with uh you know people in the community and try to help people, it just seems like sometimes we don't take things serious.

But um, you know, the cemeteries are important.

I believe they're very important.

I believe there is a solution.

Um I've I've I came to a board meeting, they talked about it, then they had a study session, y'all had a study session, nothing got resolved, and then all of a sudden, a week before this one, uh or a day before or something, we get emails out, and now we're talking about it again, and now there's another another no solution.

That conversation went from six tonight to six forty-five, 45 minutes of the same thing that I was involved in twice before almost.

Pretty aggravating.

Uh this is the citizens forum, and people do have things to say, and I believe more people would be involved if they could come and not hear the same old thing, you know, and then last minute stuff.

And I know y'all's job, I know you're busy.

You have other jobs and you have other things, so I don't know what the solution is on that uh because I'm not sitting in your position, but I think it goes back to holding people accountable to what you talk about and making sure things get done about it, I think.

But but I may be wrong.

I I don't know.

Uh it seems like we're just being reactive instead of proactive.

Um I do I do think that the planning for the acme brick thing can be put off.

I do believe we need to be selling properties in this town that we have uh to take care of somebody's responsibilities.

I do believe we need to hold our common water accountable for what they owe us uh to help uh get some things caught up.

Um I do believe that uh that we need uh a city director that uh can be efficient and effective, and I hope y'all are considering uh hiring someone besides Jeff.

Thank you.

And last we have Joey McCutcheon.

Welcome, Mr.

Cutchen.

Yeah, five Mr.

Speaker, thank you for being here.

Thank you, thank you for having me.

You know, sometimes that First Amendment thing just gets in our way, doesn't it?

And that's sad that a citizen would would try to take our way our First Amendment rights.

I think before anything can be done on this board, a city administrator has to be hired.

And the four that that have been chosen or landed upon at this point look like something that resulted from an internet search.

And they did.

There needs to be a national search firm.

Our citizens deserve that.

Surely you've gotten on the internet and read about Scott Rigby, the only city manager who's managed a city as large as Fort Smith.

Four mayors wrote this letter.

This letter is about a wrong direction.

A direction that does not value our most vulnerable citizens like at-risk children.

A direction that does not consult and listen to input from citizens on traffic, on public expenditures like the city complex, on modification of city ordinances for funding of community organizations and city parks, on a direction that does not value real input on economic development, a direction that lacks transparency, a direction that not does does not value Edmonds' quality of life, a quality of life that cities and towns all over America seek to emulate.

I mean, is that really someone who was just fired in Eggman, Oklahoma?

Is that really who this board wants to hire?

And then we've got Matthew Harline, former manager, but of 22,000 people.

He just lost, he just applied for another job in Battle Creek, Michigan, and he finished either second or third.

There was a lady who got the position, and either here Carl Gefkin finished second or third.

So is he really the person we want?

We've had crisis after crisis in this city.

The most recent one being the cemetery fiasco.

And it has been a fiasco.

And this board, with the exception of uh Mr.

Kemp, uh, is responsible for this.

You remember about a year and a half ago?

Do you remember Mr.

Settle?

A year and a half ago, uh, when this board voted unconstitutionally and illegally to give a private entity, the Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

800 was it 80,000 or 100,000?

That's unconstitutional and it's illegal.

Remember the lawsuit that I believe that Mr.

Good voted against, but your city lawyer told you you can't get for our Constitution, you can't give public dollars to private entities.

Where was our auditor?

Is our auditor not seeing that the that the mayor's giving uh pri his pric dollars to his own private uh organization?

Uh where's our auditor?

Where's our auditor when this board votes to give $80,000 to a private entity?

That's unconstitutional and it's illegal.

And then we get a budget.

Mr.

Dingman put out a budget.

You get a budget that says to fund these cemeteries, it's going to be over a million dollars.

That's the budget that you received.

And now we're here, and it's it's gonna be what, 200,000 a year?

Uh I think cemeteries are important on this one issue.

Uh I I think I agree probably with Andre Good.

Um, because I think it's about dignity.

It's about 55,000 people who are buried in this cemetery.

But Director Martin asked great questions, and I appreciate that.

Um because and and Director Kent, great questions.

And and I know you you're struggling with this, and I think it comes from a pure heart, and you're you're doing what you should do.

But I think eventually we're gonna come down to is it the moral and the right thing to do?

And we can make these cemeteries a special part of Fort Smith, just like we're on the way uh maybe with with Oak Cemetery.

I would like for this board to look at Oak Cemetery and see what the budget is, what we're spending annually, because my understanding was that the budget that City and Parks came up with was based on Oak Cemetery.

So can we do the same thing out there uh maintenance-wise?

Fort Smith can be a great place, and that's what the people in this room want to see, and we deserve a city administrator who will change the direction of this city.

We need new lifeblood in this city that we can trust.

A person who is fiscally financial, uh, physically conservative financially, uh, who's going to listen to the citizens, who's going to do things in a transparent way, and who's going to give us hope that we're headed in a new direction in Fort Smith, whether it's on these water slides, whether it's on cemeteries, whatever the issue is.

And I hope that you will engage a national search firm to and and give Fort Smith what we deserve.

You know, we deserve a look from the very best and the very brightest in this country in terms of city management.

And we can we can use the the brilliant work that was done with the military.

We can use that to make progress in Fort Smith because that's what we all want.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

McCush.

Anybody else, Sherry?

No, that's it.

Uh to the board, any other thing you want to bring up?

I've got two things I do want to bring up before we leave.

Uh previously the the county in the past couple of uh months has has had some votes to that they would like to get out of the parrot island resolution uh uh ownership.

And so they have passed a resolution that would allow the city to take over Parrot Island.

So I'd like to have that to put on the next week's agenda to approve the right to accept that resolution to take over Parrot Island from the county.

I need another second.

I think that would have to go to a study session first, would it not?

It's not a capital item, it's a it's takeover of Parrot Island.

So there's no cost, it's so it's not a cost factor.

Well, if we take it over, there is there is a cost.

But that was the spirit of my ordinance.

I don't believe that fits into the capital side of it.

This is a this is a service side.

So I'm asking for a second to put it on there.

Put it on where on next week's agenda.

I'll second.

Other one is I'd like to uh uh a resolution to extend the current uh agreement with uh American Resort Management for the 20 to operate the the the uh paradigm water for the 2026 year.

No.

Repeat that can you repeat that please?

Uh it's a resolution to extend the American resorts management contract for the uh to operate the paradigm water for the 2026 year can you speak to the circumstances that surround that the current contract is up?

Drew Peterson went to the he went to the quorum court meeting and told them that they are audited, they asked for financials.

He told them that get it from the city, they're audited every year, and I've confirmed no such audit exists.

Um there's something going on with with this resort management.

I I don't think we need to be in business with them.

They are a national firm that just got the Mattel contract uh to to build water parks throughout the United States.

So I'm asking that we because we have to have a water park management group without it without it.

You're gonna even be more of an issue than you have.

So uh to me, this is an opportunity that we can go through and do the uh RFP in 2026.

Well wait.

Do an RFP in 2026 if the contract is not the contra if they if no extension of the contract, the contract is up by the end of the year.

Why are you waiting till we end the meeting to say that you settle?

So there is anything proposed by them to us?

They have a proposal, but I think I think just extend the current one in 2026 and then we can work on what we're gonna do for 2027 going forward.

I'm just asking to put it on the agenda we can have a public discussion next week on it.

I'll second it to have a public discussion about it.

Okay.

Okay, I would like to request that we look at auditing Parrot Island Water Park.

Can I get a second for that?

I'll second the motion to audit Paradisland Water Park.

Okay.

Can we legally do that?

Are they a third-party entity or a third party entity?

That's correct.

So are they gonna are they are they required to give us can we speak to what can we ask?

I think we can certainly audit the operation of our the water park, yes.

Sure.

Yes.

We do get the financials every year.

Can you see any other any other subject?

Uh yeah, I do.

Um item of business I'd like to bring forward.

Um, there's been public claims of a congressional research service estimate showing that over one billion dollars in annual economic impact from the FMS project is expected.

Uh before we finalize our budget next week, I'd like to see the original analysis to understand the assumptions behind that figure.

I'm requesting that the city administrator provide that report if the city is in possession of it.

If not, um, could you obtain the CRS report or any supporting materials and provide them to the board prior to our vote on the budget next week?

I'll say that we we have uh we have we have asked for sources to to find a congressional research services report uh as you've mentioned.

Uh we've not been successful yet.

We will certainly try.

Just for full transparency, I filed on my own behalf for your request with the Office of Management and Budget and the Department of Defense.

I've not received anything back yet, but these numbers have been put out publicly going as far back as 2021 that I can find, and yet no one can produce this report.

No other subject brought up?

Motion to adjourn.

Second.

We are adjourned.