Libby, we're gonna get started soon.

Can you hear me?

Okay.

If you need to take your camera off for any reason, it's totally acceptable.

Like if you need to get up and get some juice or a snack or okay.

City team, we ready?

Yeah.

Good.

All right.

Good afternoon and welcome to the January twelfth government operations meeting, our first committee meeting of this term.

Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance as you're able.

Thank you very much.

Councilmember Brown.

I echo your comments.

Thank you.

And Councilmember Taylor, it's okay if you can't join us, but certainly if you'd like to after your comments at any point in the meeting, we welcome them.

The purpose of today's meeting is to basically be an organizational meeting for the government operations committee.

This committee and all of our other our other two other committees were formed via vote last week.

And so if you're following along at home, we do have an agenda.

And in that agenda, we do have what topics may be considered as part of this committee.

Our goal, our intention, at least for this committee, is to put these work plans in the public realm, hopefully via a website that we create for the committee with the mayor and team's help, of course, uh, so that the public can follow along, and as people are interested in following along these topics, they can be plugged into where we are in our work plan.

Ms.

Phyllis, if I could ask, uh can you toggle over to our draft work plan.

I just want to briefly go through the elements of a work plan so that the committee um and all of this is up for discussion and tweaking.

We're kind of certainly uh building the airplane in the sky as we go.

But we are endeavoring to outline a work plan for every topic that the committee will proceed forward with, and again, those topics are listed in the agenda.

And those topics just for total transparency are ongoing budget monitoring, purchasing guidelines, and contracts, elections, technology, justice and police reform, land management code, and and or a charter rewrite um employees, including the police, and taxes.

And so we have before us on the screen a draft of a work plan.

And again, I I wrote this, so this is certainly uh up for committee discussion.

But the goal is to create one of these for each one of these topics, and then if there's a subcommittee, also create a work plan for the subcommittee.

And the goal, of course, is not to put parameters around our work, but it's really just to document what we're working on and add transparency and accountability, certainly put timelines to things when possible.

There are going to be some things that are just ongoing, but to the extent that we can outline what we're working on for the public, it would be probably beneficial to put some sort of timeline around it.

So, what I've done is I've outlined this is for technology, and I literally just picked one.

Um, I've outlined the purpose and why we're doing what we're doing, the scope of what we're doing.

And then if you proceed down, I've included uh phases of our work.

And again, I tend to be very optimistic about when things are gonna happen and how quickly they're gonna happen.

And I've learned through many many years of working in government that sometimes those timelines shift and they shift for very good reason, but they do shift, and so we have to be flexible, of course, but always have goals.

And then the goal, of course, will be to match those phases with work tasks as we move forward.

And so the purpose of today's meeting is to put it out in the public realm that this is something we're gonna be working on.

This is what we're gonna what we're gonna draft.

Um the monitoring and the publishing of these work plans will be hopefully an ongoing living document.

And the goal is also to check in with these work plans, if not every meeting, every meeting that we have one of these topics comes up, just to sort of say, okay, this is where we are, and this is what we're working on, just to keep some sort of map of what we're what we're doing and why.

So that's that's a draft work plan.

That's what that will tentatively look like.

And again, we're gonna come back to this.

Um council members, I'll take a first draft many of these, unless when we're gonna talk today about um subcommittees.

Uh, if you're leading a subcommittee, certainly please uh take on said work plan and and have that, and I'm happy to help.

I know Clara will help as well.

Um our goal, of course, is to start getting these ready so that we can have them published and start really getting into the work as soon as we can.

Chair, thank you for putting this draft together.

I understand that depending upon the specific legislative task, there might be edits or changes made to it, but this is great to have this skeletal structure to help us with our work.

Thank you.

Just uh two two quick questions.

One is if you could clarify for me the running rules for a subcommittee, doesn't have to be right now, but at some point today.

Um, and then the second is uh when we should begin our discussions on our legislative priorities.

It again doesn't have to be today, just no, I think that's great.

So I think with respect to subcommittees and and how we're gonna handle them in this committee.

Um we had talked about doing our best to try to identify, and they're gonna come up.

I mean, if I think if if something if something timely comes up and we need to respond, then that's a that's a a different matter.

But um, you know, we we've talked about and this is on the record that we as a council we want to look at some election changes potentially.

Uh and your leadership, of course, will be instrumental in that, Councilmember Brem.

So I think to the extent that maybe you know, we can have those committee meetings somewhat conform to a general schedule or subcommittee meetings, excuse me, generally sort of kind of conform to the same type of schedule, and if it's even this time slot, right?

And I think um those subcommittees could be augmented by members of the public.

I think should be augmented by members of the public who have that expertise that we are looking for, and I think it's up to the subcommittee chair to identify the members that they would like to serve on that subcommittee, and um certainly we'll work in concert with council president Diaz.

So it would be a one of us on this government operations committee would chair that subcommittee solo.

There wouldn't necessarily be other council members involved.

I think that would be up to you.

Okay if it if it if it's helpful uh to have one of us, you know, another one of us float in and float out.

Um obviously we'll adhere to all open meetings act laws and be mindful of that.

But other than that, I think uh we could really maximize our resources.

We have so much talent in our community that so many people that want to get involved.

Um, this is a way to really level up, so to speak.

Got it.

Thank you.

Um can I make a comment on the the this technology work plan?

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you so much for putting this together.

I think it's really helpful, and something that's really important to me is um knowing a timeline and what the objectives are.

Um I just skimmed through it, but one thing that comes to mind I don't see spelled out clearly is about data collection and the sources the data comes from and the analytics of what to do with that data when we're talking about monitoring and oversight.

I heard you just fine.

I'm just scrolling down to I'm gonna put a note, Councilmember Taylor, and I'm also gonna include uh the use, the appropriate use of data and data privacy.

I know the state's done a lot of work on that that carries over to us as well.

I thank you building on council member Taylor's comment, um I was at a meeting recently where somebody brought up the idea of putting transponders in emergency vehicles and on stoplights so that the stoplights would automatically flash yellow as the car approach them.

Apparently, this technology is in use in other places.

The only reason I'm asking that is is that technology encompassed within this scope.

I think it could be.

I think I didn't I didn't even I've never heard of that before.

I love it.

Um I think that would fit in though, because I think it's about service delivery, right?

And so I think that's and just so the public knows, the council members, I literally said this like an hour ago.

So um there the point is I think as we're brainstorming is to note that we're gonna get another bite at this apple.

Um, but that's really interesting.

Yes, but I think anything that is in delivery that uses technology, I think I think there's bleed over.

Yeah.

And just to check back on the document itself, are are these five city guiding principles or are these just guiding principles that you considered as it relates to this?

So I I looked up technology work plans uh in general.

I Googled it, and then I sort of saw um there was a couple of cities that I looked at that were similar.

Um believe it or not, the mayor when he was first elected had what they were called, and you may remember this strategic opportunity.

It was SOAT, SOAT was the uh acronym.

And this was of course how many years ago, 10 years ago now.

But interestingly enough, a lot of the recommendations made in essentially his transition team's planning and recommendations regarding uh the communications, the operations of our government are very applicable to now.

So I'll make sure I send those out to everybody.

I was uh reading those and just trying to get up to speed with what our committee is tasked with and trying to understand what already exists, but I have not done the work to tie the we have a strategic plan, we have a comprehensive plan.

Uh I have not tied those documents to the work of the committee yet.

I haven't done that.

So that is definitely something I want to do.

I've been a real big fan, as I know you both have as well, to use and leverage the comprehensive plan in our guiding documents to to do our work.

So I think that's important.

Absolutely.

Uh so just to make sure I'm I'm clear, under budget monitoring, if council wanted to invite, and I'll just make up an example, wanted to invite in uh the department that would oversee the uh rental licensing fee, then this this committee would be the committee to invite them in and share with us a conversation about what we've spent, what we haven't spent, any programs associated with that.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

And I think we are at a reflection point and a building point to determine what does appropriate budget monitoring look like.

Uh historically, there's been there have been efforts and we've been we've been met with um an acceptance of of these changes.

I don't I don't want to misrepresent, but we've had budget memos created that sort of outline a little bit more deeper into that performance budgeting sort of framework that we're trying to get to.

Those will go out and those are those will come back to us in the budget cycle.

We've had some departments give us updates mid year.

Um, but what we're not doing, if you're and I know that you are familiar with nonprofit work and you're familiar with being on a board and having you know monthly PLs, we are not measuring right now, at least among this body.

I know I know the city budgeting office does, of course, but this body is not measuring what the monthly um what did we say we were gonna do and what do we do kind of scenario.

Um we just don't have those checkpoints inherently built in.

So I think that's I think this committee affords us that unique opportunity to have those those checkpoints.

So yeah, uh I have a question about the budget process upcoming as well.

Is this a good time?

We if I don't know it, I'll just uh it when I sat through last year's budget discussions, um, my recollection, so be afraid, is that often council members would ask, what metrics is your department using to measure success?

And in some cases or many cases, the answer was, well, you know, Mohammed Ahmeda.

Uh uh do we have an ability to send out a note to all of the departments saying when you come before us with your budget, we would like the following information.

Please bring the following information, bullet bullet bullets.

So one would be what was your for me, what was your actual spend for fiscal year 26?

And the second is what metrics were you using to measure your performance and how did you do against those?

So uh there might be other bullets that other council members may have as well.

I think what you're the short answer is do we have the ability?

We certainly do.

We last year for the first time did this sort of data pool that was in the form of a budget memo.

I think what could be different is the budget memo draft is sent out almost now, uh, very soon, and we can certainly get all of our input together uh and send it out last time.

I I just wrote it.

So um I think we could definitely do a better job of expanding the questions that we're asking ahead of time.

Yep.

And this committee would do that.

Or the full council.

I think this committee could create questions or sort of take the lead and then probably full council will end up weighing in as well.

Uh let me know when it's time to talk about legislative priorities.

So I think just before we move on, I think the we don't need to decide today, but I think ideas around um a budget monitoring program.

I think the sooner that we can put that together, the and communicate that to the mayor's office and staff through, of course, the mayor's office, I think would be would probably be even though we're coming up in budget cycle, even just communicating that it's gonna be look different, I think would be high priority items.

So I just wanted to flag that because I know we're talking about it, but do you shall we talk about that now?

Yeah, let's talk about it.

Let's so in in my experience, which is not the gospel, it's just my experience.

Um I find that budget versus actual documents are extremely useful, and the best use for me, and this is just me, uh especially with a complicated budget, and this is the most complicated budget I would have worked with, but is to look at the high level, what was the income?

And I know it's it's a budget line item, but what was the income, and then on a monthly basis, what what were the expenditures and then from uh 8020, the Pareto principal standpoint, what where was 80 percent of the money spent?

So if 80 percent of the money was labor, okay.

That's that's all I want to know is budget was a million dollars, we've spent through June 500,000 or through the half of the year 500,000 dollars, and and 80 percent of that is labor.

But but then it would be helpful to see what the macro expenditures were for the other 20 percent, not not down to paper clips and and copy or paper, but just the macro, because then that gives me insight as far as uh what what was budgeted, what's been spent so far, and and by implication what hasn't been spent.

And then the other would be uh uh just as a as a part of the report, it could either be in writing or by the person presenting it.

What what were some of the goals?

So if the goal was to buy five new trash trucks and we haven't bought them yet as of June, okay.

So what's the plan to buy five new trash trucks by the end of the year?

Or we we've tried, but we can't find a vendor, or whatever the barrier is to to getting there.

And again, just for those macro big big ticket items.

And and if that's too complicated, I'm I welcome feedback from especially staff because I don't want them spending hours and hours putting together reports that I won't be able to digest.

So this is a pretty high level layperson view of what's going on.

Yeah, I think I think what I'm what I'm gathering today, council member, is the sort of initial feedback.

Uh I'll take a I'll take an effort to write up your feedback and council member tailor and council member Lasher's feedback.

I think what would be appropriate is to circulate what we've talked about among staff and to have that that sort of input and review and then put all that together, come back here, walk it through, and then present before full council our committee work product.

Um if everybody is amenable to that, and that will take some time and it might it might even take us into budget season, but I think that's okay.

Louby, what uh council member Taylor, what what are your thoughts?

Uh that's very important to me too.

Um I am concerned about the the lift for staff.

I don't want it to be burdensome, but I do think we need more information.

And we need um we need transparency on how money is being spent and if the intention of that money or that policy is being reached or not.

And what the barriers are.

So I think it's I think it's great.

It's gonna have to be a balance of not getting too much into the weeds, but getting us the information that we are seeking.

Yep, that that that was my intent as well.

Thank you.

That's great.

Councilmember Taylor, do you agree with the sort of steps that I outlined?

Do you think that gives us enough of a ramp, so to speak, to gather the appropriate feedback?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes, I think so.

What would be uh as we contemplate the sort of ongoing updating, what does routine updating look like in a dream like scenario?

Again, without having staff input, but um is quarterly sufficient, uh half a year, yearly, monthly.

What what is the what is the appropriate check-in for departmental budget items?

I think it might depend on what it is.

Umce a year or um every six months, I think could work for several things.

Um, but maybe it's a new policy that we're putting out there, quarterly would be would be great to see how it's rolling out.

How how many the to me to me the hard part is it would be good to hear from each department, but the department of public works as an example has 10, I don't know how many sub-departments within it, but planning and parks and rec and all kinds of stuff.

So it's a volume question as well as is anything else.

It is, and it strikes me that our residents have more like capital projects tend to have so many more steps and are so of high level interest to residents that I'm wondering about you know, a capital budget presentation is quarterly sufficient.

I we don't we have it yearly now, so uh and then what sort of what happens is as big projects are they kind of come on everybody's radar screen, and we ask a bunch of questions, and then maybe there's a community meeting, but I'm I'm sort of supposing that at least quarterly for capital projects is probably if if that's not too much of a burden on staff would probably be uh sufficient, I think.

Do you do you know what range of cap count of capital projects we have at any one time?

Five, seven?

It's a lot.

It's a lot a lot.

So again, there's a volume.

It is it's and it and and I will say that Department of Public Works is going to have in no, I mean they will definitely have the most.

Um they also have the most staff, I think, dedicated to project management.

So I don't, you know, there's a I think we may have to ask them what it would be, you know, get their opinion.

Um, parks and rec projects, for example, we just we know that there is a lot of attention uh especially if a new project is coming online, people are asking us, uh especially the district folks are gonna get asked a lot of questions as those projects are being developed, and right now there isn't a mechanism save us proactively querying um to get those updates.

And so one of the things that we're trying to do, and one of the reasons we're having this discussion publicly is to open that, open that up so that people have better touch points, they can see it more frequently.

So well, for your and council member Taylor and last year's consideration.

What about and all ideas have value?

That does not mean all ideas are good, but well, what about if we had a listing of and let's just start with capital projects, and then indicated with enough time that staff could prepare the report, indicated which ones we wanted to report back on.

So for example, I'm really interested in West Side Regional Park.

I'm really interested in stormwater management.

There might be other public projects out there that doesn't mean they're not important.

Wastewater treatment plant upgrades, very important, but not necessarily one that I I feel like I need to track that through a uh a a session like this.

And Councilmember Taylor, your perspective is a little bit different because you do represent the entire city, right?

And so I'm I'm thinking that there could be a you know, I think the district representatives could we probably could have updates sent whenever there was a a big change or a movement in a in a project related to one's district, but you know, then on the other hand, even though West Side Regional isn't in my district, I'm deeply committed to it, right?

So um and I think that's another question, and I don't mean to, but another layer on to this discussion is what is appropriate district level communication as it relates to budget items.

Um for example, if there's an a big emergency project that's gonna happen in council member Brem's district, what sort of what would we what would what would perfect communication look like and how do we go there, or how do we at least advocate for that?

Yeah, but but first Libby, do you have any thoughts about which capital projects we would examine?

Up sorry, council member Taylor.

No, it's okay.

The ones that you laid out, and I I think it's a great idea for us to share what we would like to prioritize what we want visibility on.

Um and those might differ, but a lot of them will really be the same.

Um and then about communication, the the public seems to really want to know what we know.

So I don't think anything should just go to that um council district council member for their benefit and at large, it's everything should just be shared with the whole council and uh and the public yep, I agree.

That's that makes sense.

How should it be shared?

So and I say that because not flippantly, but in this room, I'm a big I'm a big like process person in the room, like I think that if there's a video of it, you can go back and watch, you know.

But on the flip side, I recognize that many do not know that this exists, right?

And so, but then they when Waverly Drive is suddenly under construction, I'm gonna get a lot of calls.

Um so I think I think we could start with having a meeting here and getting an update, but I'm just wondering we don't right now have a I guess that report, and then it would be incumbent upon the individual council members to collate the information from whatever backup staff provides.

I'm sort of talking this through in my head because I'm wondering like how do we take the information that we get in this room and then have it digestible for the public.

Um I don't know that this is sufficient.

How does the city currently uh share with council capital project reports only upon request?

Really, it's when it kind of gets to a point where I think the shovels in the ground are imminent, uh, from what I can tell.

Um that's a good question for staff because they sort of um dictate or they they manage that process.

I would say that we don't always get invited or known, like it's it's gotten much better, but sometimes meetings happen and we're like, oh, like oh, that's that's happening, you know, tomorrow, right?

And so I think there's probably a a way to request a better process there, but um so is is where you're headed district council members probably need to know when a capital project gets started.

Is that the key issue?

I think along the way there needs to be communication about what it's gonna thing that I keep hearing, and I don't know if this is your shared experience, but is that something is way down the line in the planning and the design and the and the funding has been achieved, and then suddenly people feel that it's very sudden, all of a sudden there's going to be a project in their neighborhood.

And in a lot of ways they're correct, and that a lot of the work has already been done, the design work, the planning and everything, the the funding acquisition has been done, and they feel that they really don't have a lot of input in what happens next.

They feel even though the city might have a community meeting about you know the the roundabout on Waverly Drive, there's already been planning and design sunk in, you know, and and it might be the best solution, but the work hasn't been done to garner the neighborhood's interest prior to that.

Um that's very like it's very resource intensive, and I'm you know, and perhaps what I'm sort of putting out there is it it's probably our job to be proactive in that tracking in that reporting out to the public, but right now that's a difficult because the mechanism just isn't there unless I just send an email to our city staff and ask.

Um and we could decide that's what we want to keep doing, right?

But I just wanted to wanted to mention that because there isn't currently a other than the budget process, there isn't a proactive check-in point for these projects.

All right, again, an idea.

Uh we the the the website is certainly a resource, but I'm wondering if on a quarterly basis we had a report of CIP projects.

And for projects, well, maybe we don't want to be redundant with what's on the web page.

But some way that would indicate this project is gonna start next month, and that would be a a heads up it the information is being pushed to us as opposed to our going to the web page and pulling it.

It the information is being pushed to us as opposed to our going to the webpage and pulling it.

It would just be easier on us if if we had that report, a dashboard.

And and then uh I again West Side is not district three, but West Side Regional Park groundbreaking is going to take place in August of 2026.

And for the record, I'm making that up.

But but then the Cesar in this case would have a heads up, and we all would because it's of such interest to the entire city.

And then through NACS as well as our own constituent mechanisms, we could make sure people knew about that.

What and yes, by the way, in district three, it happens too that the project gets started and people say, where did that come from?

Well, it's been three years in the making, and so I do think that we have a responsibility though to share with our constituents these projects and where they stand.

I I'll tell you one that is coming soon to a district near you, and that's district three, the street West Patrick Street repairs.

That I I've listened to we we got the contract let where the estimates we're gonna start work, but I promise you the day that that tar gets broken up and the street is closed partially or fully, there's gonna be an outcry.

So yes, uh to that extent it would be good if I knew about it, and then I could then also message with that.

I don't cogress uh Congressman cu Councilmember Taylor, what are your thoughts?

Um Congressman is fine.

Uh uh my mind goes to technology and dashboards also.

I know that that takes a lot of work to put together and then also to maintain um the website makes the most sense to me, putting it online, because you're right, a lot of there isn't a lot of visibility or people watching these meetings or going back and and watching the videos.

Um there's web pages for each of the departments.

So if we could so sorry.

If we could share uh identify what's important for us and our constituents to know, then the departments could put that on their website.

Just an idea.

No, I think that's a good suggestion.

And and well, and even if just asking the question what what is the what are we is this is this something that is so is this a big request?

Is this a big lift to use your words?

Um something else as a sort of a side note that I was thinking about is uh Councilmember Brem was talking about Patrick Street.

Um there's another side to this that I think is really critically important for moving forward, and especially as we consider CIP projects, we need to be mapping out developer proffers and if those proffers or uh to set another way, things that the developer agreed to do as part of the development agreement um if those proffers are being met.

I there's been a couple of times when we're trying to go back and figure out um from a council member perspective what you know we have neighbors that are I'll use um there's a there's a park example out in um council member Hampelrani's district now.

Um the developer had proffered when they built the community they had proffered uh a park, uh a spot of land for a park.

And one of the first things that kind of came up when I got elected was people asking about this park, and I had no idea what they were talking about.

But they knew because they had bought in the community early on and they were there for when the community meetings about proffering the land for the park.

So um there's another piece of that accountability that I think we if we're mapping out these CIP projects and sort of their origin and their funding, I think it would be it's a piece of the puzzle that we currently don't um manage.

Who who tracks those quote proffers I think that's planning, but I would have to check to see who I don't know the answer to that question.

Let me stop there.

I don't know.

I have to ask.

I defer to you and council member Taylor, but I absolutely would like to keep track of proffers.

Is that the technical term?

I believe so.

I absolutely think that's important.

Because we're being held accountable.

Councilmember Taylor, I'm I'm looking at the website, the City of Frederick website and the uh I just capital improvement projects.

So the good news is there are nine listed.

The bad news is we have more than nine CIP projects.

So I'm wondering uh understanding, Councilmember Taylor, you said that each department would have it on the webpage, maybe it could be cross-linked there.

But if at least on the CIP, if they were all look, for example, I don't see West Patrick Street resurfacing here.

But if they could be there, then if I had a question, then with ample lead time, we could invite the street paving team to come in and share with us where that project stood.

And some of this needs to be updated, and I know that updating web pages is not easy, but on our Mullinek's part.

It says uh next public engagement, community input opportunities coming early 2025.

So and again, I I understand it's hard to keep track of a thousand web pages, so but maybe with some help from staff as it relates to keeping the CIPs updated and some help from staff and making sure that every and maybe we put a dollar amount on what every CIP is there a dollar minimum for CIPs.

There is, but I I'm not recalling it off.

But there is sure it's big bucks, so all right.

So then every CIP should be on the webpage, and and that way then as needed, we can invite in that department to talk about it and in the and in addition, we can also as a reminder, share with our constituents citywide or district wide about that project.

I guess the only favor I would ask is that before ground got broken, and I'm I'll use the water project, uh the stormwater management project, that was district four, but it affected district three.

And a lot of neighbors said, well, why did they wait until well I there's good reason for all things, but if if we if I got a note from the Department of Public Works team a month before that happened, that would be helpful.

And then on that, uh and this is just feedback for the Department of Public Works.

I heard from businesses on East Street that they learned about that groundbreaking from the newspaper.

So it would be a good idea for the Department of Public Works to share that information with as many businesses as possible.

So uh uh any in cases where it's pertinent and appropriate.

The other sort of noteworthy thing to put in your brain um is this concept of aspirational items in CIP.

So we are not, and I think it this might this might warrant a conversation or a presentation from Director Barkdahl, but my understanding is there's a threshold question with respect to when something becomes a CIP item.

And my understanding is there isn't a current way that we are sort of um if you're familiar with how the school the FCPS capital budget sort of works, you'll see projects that are not funded, but they're on the list, so to speak, for the capital planning.

They have sort of like their capital planning and then they have what's actually budgeted.

And we do not have that planning apparatus, we only have the budgeted.

Does that make sense?

So we don't have the wish list.

Right.

That's my I would love to see the wish list.

Right.

I don't, and I think we and I just don't recall the conversation about and I think that's why I want to I want to ask Katie for her or Director Barkdahl for her input.

I think the city staff might have been working on something to that effect.

Um, but I just I I don't I don't think I've seen anything about that.

And then just another because we're here.

The ways that CIPs are capital permit projects are budgeted.

Um just kind of digging into the use of operating funds for project management is another topic that I would like to explore with the budgeting team.

Um some projects heavily rely on project management staff from the public works department, and then others don't have dedicated project managers.

They rely on like you know, Director Bob Smith, for example, for parks and rack projects.

Um I would like to have a conversation about truly using project managers that are budgeted through the CIP process for those for those projects.

So we've spent time talking about budget monitoring and and especially with the CIP process.

I can certainly start putting this to up and taking notes and we can put pen to paper to come back at another community meeting committee meeting to talk to sort of go through this and review and comment before we move on from this topic.

Is there anything else on this topic where we are today?

Budgets.

The first bullet item.

No, I'm not good.

Okay.

I don't have okay.

Did you want to keep going down the down the list?

Sure.

Okay, go ahead.

Uh I'd I'd like a well.

And like the kid in the ice cream store, there's a lot of stuff I'd like.

So I understand that just because I referenced that I would like to do it today, I understand it may have to get in line of other priorities.

So with that being said, I'd like us to look at rank choice voting and open primaries.

And uh also alignment of city elections with uh state or presidential.

And I understand for the record is when people look at this that there are advantages and limitations to all of these, so this is not an endorsement of anything.

It's a request that we have that discussion because I think there's value in evaluating all three areas.

I fully endorse your non-endorsement, but you're you're seeking of looking uh looking at these matters, and uh councilmember, I'd be honored if you would share a subcommittee to that effect.

I think there's a lot of experts that we want to bring in for those conversations, and I want you to have the flexibility to do that uh if you're comfortable with that.

I'm comfortable, thank you.

And just for the record, open primaries today, tomorrow, and yesterday.

So but sorry, that was anything on that, Councilmember Taylor, before we move on.

That's election.

Um I think those are great ideas.

One thing I would like to add is uh randomizing the um the list on the ballot of candidates.

Is that makes sense?

Because now it's in alphabetical order.

It does, thank you.

Yep, added to my list.

Yep.

Thank you.

The irony having last names Brem Nash and Taylor represented in the uh in the room, but okay.

Uh we've already sort of touched on technology.

Is it a bad idea to foreshadow a topic?

Like under justice and police reform, I think there's value in the city of Frederick evaluating what happens to undocumented neighbors who are arrested or picked up by the police and taken to the county-run jail, where then my understanding is they are being turned over to the 287G program.

Councilmember Taylor, do you have thoughts about you and I briefly talked at the protest yesterday, but I'll just say I think there's shared interest and better understanding at all levels of police cooperation with external agencies.

Is that a fair way to say that?

Yes.

And I I'm not sure if it's this committee or another one, but uh I would like just a check-in meeting with how the city is helping people uh who are coming out of incarceration.

I believe there's a program in place, but it would just be a uh a check-in to find out how many people being served, more funds needed, not enough uh what whatever the case may be.

We have a re-entry coalition that the mayor had spearheaded last year, I believe, and we had the presentation October or November time frame.

Um the presentation was very I was very um moved by the work that had been done, but I think to your point I haven't heard an update, and of course it's only been, but I think that's spot on.

Thank you for that.

Related to that, do you happen to know if city law does or doesn't have a uh uh comment on whether a felon can rent an apartment?

Are there do we prohibit landlords from failing to rent to somebody who's coming out of prison who has a felony?

And my understanding of that is what in work that I did with the Frederick County Continuum of Care Collaborative, that is an institutional racist issue that we have to deal with is that convicted felons can't often get a job, but also often won't the landlord will not rent to them because of that status.

Councilmember, I have to check Maryland law on that.

I don't remember, I I remember there being legislation to that effect.

I don't remember how it turned out, but we can certainly get an answer on essentially it's it's ban the box, but ban the box for housing.

I totally understand what you're asking about.

Um I just have to I have to make sure I don't have a that I speak from actual knowledge and not yeah, my half-hearted brained recollection.

Anything else on justice and police reform, Councilmember Taylor.

Uh yes, but let me follow up with you with you later.

I got my hands full right now.

Okay.

Fair enough.

I'm wondering, I I think we might want to explore in we don't need to decide this today, but we might want to explore a subcommittee that supports the work.

And I think we could probably have it hopefully in it wouldn't necessarily need to be an ongoing subcommittee, but someone or a group of folks that look at how to fast track the recommendations from the re-entry, the re-entry coalition's recommendation.

It would be we'll take a look at that, but it once we have that presentation from that the coalition, it might be appropriate to have sort of a group of a small group of people make some policy recommendations back to back to the full council so we can move some legislation forward.

I just don't recall where we left it.

So it got kind of lost in the shuffle, I think.

Okay.

Um I would be interested in in working on that.

Great.

Councilmember, we'll I'll follow up.

I'll obtain that report, send it to the committee, and give you a chance to I'll check back in with you about what a possible subcommittee would look like if it's broader than the coalition's work or you can you can give it some time to think about it.

Okay, thank you.

All right, our favorite the land management code rewrite.

Ready?

Yep.

Well, uh I would strongly recommend that this be our first order of business.

And I would strongly recommend, and again, I understand I have other council members' opinions to take into account that we set up a citizens task force like I did with the charter of especially process experts, and that we first dust off and make sure, which I understand this is the year to do it anyway, the comprehensive plan and make sure that that's still valid, and that's a short-term effort, and then I would strongly encourage us if we need to hire a consultant, then we hire a consulting firm and we rewrite the land management code.

It's been 2005 since that was written.

The city's been growing so quickly, it probably has little or no validation given where we are today.

And in my opinion, we have kind of a Frankenstein of text amendments.

So I just think we need to start over with the city as we know it today, with process expert subject matter experts, and and jam it through in 18 to 24 months.

And again, I'm open to discussion, and I understand that this is a painful comment to make, but I wonder if we should put a pause on development in the city until this is done.

Just to make sure that projects aren't being kind of snuck in under the tent as we sew the tent back together.

And I understand that has economic implications and growth implications.

I I get all that.

But the feedback from my neighbors in district three are that development in the city is out of control, and the perception is that nobody has their hands on the reins.

So that's why I'm suggesting this much this soon.

I completely agree with uh council member Brem's suggestions and recommendations.

I would like to suggest that one of our committee meetings is just on the land management code committee and how we would determine who would be on it if we wanted to pause developments, um, how long it should take, um, what exactly we want them to do to lay all of that out there.

I think that's really helpful when a committee starts to have marching orders and for us to have a structure around it.

This could take a really long time, and we want it to be completed as soon as it's feasible.

Council members, I'm hearing the urgency behind this item, and I'm just gonna check my schedule and not just checking real quick.

But do you feel comfortable if we would have this the first week of February?

Uh our meeting would be on the second.

And I'm only I'm only bringing that up, the bringing the specifics up because I know there are going to be a lot of there's gonna be a lot of interest in this, and I just want to make sure that I'm honoring the urgency, but also honoring giving a little bit of time for folks to get ready and um get their thoughts together.

So make sure I got it February 2nd.

That's what I just posited, but I'm not uh we could do the second or the ninth.

I uh I personally am fine with the second.

We might bleed over into the ninth, right?

It might be it might be a big conversation.

Councilmember Taylor, do you are you comfortable with that timeline?

Yes.

Okay.

Some of the things that I've heard.

I heard Councilmember Taylor talk about the structure.

Um I've heard Councilmember Brem talk about some of the policy implications of that group meeting and what should or should not occur during that time.

I've also heard Councilmember Taylor uh Brem's suggestion for a timeline of 18 to 24 months.

The I think the makeup of the committee, I don't think we need to decide now, but I have seen some concerns about weighing too heavily in the land use committee or having too many members of the land use committee, those who are paid to represent land use interests.

I've I've seen that communication, so I wanted to honor that that that point.

I think we're gonna have to sort of think about what is that appropriate ratio because we do have, I think, a vested interest in having market participants in the conversation, right?

And so I want to be f there's a there's a there's a needle to thread, right?

And so I just wanted to wanted to go ahead and put that on the record as something that we're gonna need to consider.

Um are there other points to that work uh that you would like I think a maybe a plan or a draft plan of how that uh committee moves forward or group moves forward, subcommittee moves forward.

Sorry, let me give my lexicon correct.

Um one of the things that I think was helpful for the Charter Review Commission is when they met, they sort of determined their own work plan, and so it was predictable in a lot of ways of like, okay, we if we're gonna talk about elections, we're gonna we know on this day we're gonna talk about elections.

Um I could see the land management code discussion garnering that sort of type of interest level as well.

So how do we how do we provide some level of predictability?

Obviously, things will shift, but um other points about the the makeup of the group.

Uh I share that our developer partners should be part of it.

And uh I've got I've got some names that will we can talk about.

Okay.

Would we uh this is just ignorance on my part.

Would would we identify those people we would.

I think I think if you're comfortable, I think it's gonna be such a task, it's just gonna be such it's gonna be such a lift for the three of us or for the four of us, excuse me, that I think we all should probably just participate in full committee on this because it's just such a big topic, and we can probably divide up the work in some meaningful way, but and so uh a suggestion uh and that is if we could come to an agreement about who the chair is, I wonder if there would be value in the five of us in a public forum, sitting down and coming up with that charter and timeline and deliverables.

It's a good idea.

I like that idea.

Councilmember Taylor, how do you feel about that?

Uh yes, I agree.

Um, question um how much oversight or any do we would we have on this?

So could we check in with them to see how they are meeting, you know, whatever they had in their work plan?

And then could we also tell them to prioritize you know X over, you know, C I I'm okay with monthly check-ins for this important activity.

Okay.

It would be a check-in as opposed to a grilling.

But just what are you doing?

How are you doing?

Any barriers, what can we do to help?

Okay.

I think that's right because I think what we we came up against this with charter, and in some in some ways, charter was easier because the subjects were I I feel it was easier to write the resolutions for the ordinance changes, if that makes sense.

I think this is going to require the land management code changes are going to be highly technical or proposed changes, and let me suppose that there will be proposed changes.

They're going to be very technical in nature, and we will need to ensure that we at least we send them to planning staff, get feedback from planning staff about, and we may disagree with that feedback, but that is I think probably good process, right?

And then we're also in and we don't have to decide this today, but we may contemplate additional legal assistance for the council to effect these changes because the text amendment drafting, and I just want to because right now we're so dependent on the land use committee to to draft text amendments in the city that in order for us to sort of say these are our recommended changes.

Now please proceed with those text amendment drafts and submissions to the planning commission for then approval back to the to the full council.

Um would it will slow it will take a significant amount of staff work?

Um I do not say that to shy us away.

I just want to make sure that since we're going into budgeting and we're planning this effort that we have plan accordingly.

But on this, I would suggest a lawyer be part of this task force.

Yeah, I agree.

For lots of reasons, but this this is one of them.

I agree.

Not a city lawyer, but a lawyer.

So then I will I will move forward with planning to have the conversation just about the formation of a subcommittee to examine the land management code rewrite.

Our intention is to name a subcommittee chair who is not a member of the committee.

Did I hear that right?

Correct.

Correct.

Yeah, okay.

For lack of a better word, a citizen.

Um councilmember Taylor, I just want to check in.

Are you okay with that plan?

Yes.

Okay.

Okay.

So I have another comment.

Um, understanding we don't have enough to do, is this committee responsible for any discussions on the data center zoning issue?

I believe that's your committee.

It would it would be public works?

Okay, great.

Thank you.

But our committee does include taxes.

Yes, okay.

All right, because but all right.

I'm looking at your paper because you haven't no, you're good.

I'm ready to move on to another bullet item.

Okay.

Are you good to move on, Councilmember Taylor?

I'll just I am, and I should have given my daughter Oreos earlier because I haven't heard about from her.

Uh under employees, uh and again, he was doing his job, but on inauguration day, the gentleman representing asked me, said to me, Oh, we need to do more work on our contract agreement.

So I didn't want to let that fall off the table.

I don't know what that meant, but yeah.

So um in 2025, the city moved forward to the collective bargaining ordinance that uh permitted civilian uh employees to collectively bargain.

I requested a draft from AFSME to have binding arbitration added to that collective bargaining, but I also would like to see, and this is my personal, this is Councilmember Nash's uh request, not as a member, not as a chair of the committee, because I requested this information before I knew I was chairing this committee.

Um but also for our police that they would have binding arbitration as well.

And I think what would be appropriate would be to have a follow-up discussion on you know, presentation, what is collective bargaining, what is binding arbitration?

I think just sort of level setting what these terms are and why they matter.

Um and I was going to invite AFSME, because AFSME is the union that would represent um, they typically would represent uh municipal employees and uh and they represent the library workers who just unionized, and if the county were to move that direction, they would represent them as well.

But to request that they come in and give us a presentation on these terms um just as a baseline and just start there if that's acceptable to the committee.

I I think that makes sense.

We also have we skipped over um charter changes.

We have a series of leftover, um I'm affectionately calling it the leftovers, um matters that were not necessarily adjudicated during this last round of charter considerations, but that are sort of outstanding, um not urgent, I would say.

So I would say like redistricting is the best example uh with respect to how do we redistrict and and when and all that good stuff.

We don't want to wait too long to consider that.

We don't want to get too far into 2026 and 2027 because if we decide to follow along with the county, well, excuse me, the federal, state, and county process, then that would be coming up after the 2030 census, right?

So um I did send a preliminary, just for full transparency, I did send a preliminary uh email to the ACLU.

They were instrumental in looking at our districted lines last time or last when we first drew them at the first end, just weighing in on basically the fair representation nature of the lines that were drawn by the consultant and ultimately approved by the previous council.

So I've not, I believe, gotten a response back from that, or if I have it's um, but at some point we will need to schedule some discussions about charter changes as well.

So that is also under the purview of this committee.

And Chair, I think that's the second most important thing we need to do.

And uh I wonder if a start of that would be to invite the charter review team to come in and give us their prioritized list of stuff they think we ought to uh they were closest to it, so they'll be the first to say, oh, we we should have, we needed to, don't forget, in addition to anything we might think of.

That's fine with me.

And I just want to make sure um the sort of the proverbial world knows that we'll talk about them in this full commit in this committee, but ultimately those recommendations and those conversations will float up to the full committee.

So um it's I I kind of look at our committee as sort of gathering the information, and then when it gets to the point where we are considering even putting together an ordinance, my request would be that we just go ahead and send that to full committee.

Okay.

Councilmember Chaley, are you okay with that plan?

Yes.

Okay, awesome.

And and I I don't want to be pushy, and is it possible for us to schedule that discussion?

No, I appreciate that.

I appreciate the push.

Uh so we currently are we could schedule that discussion for the ninth.

Um I think that would give them a full month to determine if they want if they want to say yes or no, they've always been very generous with their time.

So um, but if we scheduled it for the ninth, then even if we had some additional conversation from the second regarding the land management code, I think I think it would still we might just have to just keep plugging along.

Sure.

And the reason I'm looking at my phone and scheduling this is because the this committee will meet the first, second, and fourth uh Mondays, and so I'm just counting because I don't want to over schedule the planning commission, but schedule over the planning commission.

So it's the ninth.

Okay.

And then finally, we have everybody's favorite topic.

Taxes.

All right.

So I uh chatted with Katie Barkdahl after the election, uh uh d budget director, Barkdahl, and uh asked what her thoughts were about a subcommittee sit-down to review our current tax rates.

Uh and she thought that was a wise idea that should probably be done annually, hasn't been done, but should be done annually.

And so I offered if this committee is in accord to go ahead and and take that on.

Um but by way of feedback, the residents of district three, not everybody, but a number have complained to me about the tax burden from the city that they're experiencing.

And uh some have commented that as assessments go up, their tax burden goes up, and what up?

I mean, is there anything we could do about that?

And so that that's part of what is is driving these to make sure that we're not just letting taxes drift up because assessments are drifting up.

We're we're being intentional about our tax rate.

Um and then the second, which is longer term and ever more complicated, is to revisit the redundancies between city services and county services uh and just better understand that.

I I was Carol Krims treasurer for years, and when she was on city council, that effort was undertaken, but it probably is good for a relook as well.

And I I can't commit to that one step at a time.

First we'll look at revenue and then we'll look at our county city sharing.

And and I know there's it's tar baby, it's just there's a lot in it.

So I'm forgetting what is the it's duplication of services, but it's the tax, it's there's a title, there's a word, there's a oh my gosh, that's awful.

Tax equity.

Thank you.

Good Lord.

Thank you.

The perennial I think those are oh, sorry, I was gonna say um those are great suggestions.

Um, Councilmember Bram.

I agree.

Okay, so and I'm I think the if I if I could just make a little bit of a tweak, I think the the city, the city county discussion is really good and really timely because I think the conversation about use of the recreation tax for transit funding the ongoing use of the recreation tax, council member uh Russell when she was here talked about the recreation tax and the sort of off-kilter way that we're supporting the rest of the county, so um I can say that.

So, and then I also think uh if you wouldn't be amenable to adding water rates into your conversation about taxes, I know it's not taxes, but absolutely, and as part of water rates, water billing.

Okay, well uh councilmember Taylor, do you feel strongly about I think I hear maybe that council member Brem might be leading the tax and water rate discussion that review subcommittee?

Did I hear that that I hear the passion behind you there?

You did.

Are you amenable to that, Councilmember Taylor?

All yours.

And then council member Taylor, the tax equity discussion.

Would you like that, or would you like me to keep that in full committee right now?

I just want to make sure we're checking in.

Uh full committee.

Yep, no problem.

That's a big one.

Uh and there's a lot of data gathering that needs to happen for that one, I think.

Uh, and I I almost wonder, Councilmember Brown, if we won't benefit from the conversation at budget.

I think it might spur some some thoughts in our brain about how departments are doing things and ways that we can maybe ask questions of the county about duplication of services and all that good stuff.

Yeah.

Yes, and that leads to a an asterisk comment.

Um I have watched city state delegation joint meetings, and I've watched city-county joint meetings, and have found them not informative.

And I okay.

I found this on the web for state delegation, city county.

I just wonder if it would be possible for council to be the driver of those meetings and set the agenda because there's lots of substantive stuff that we can discuss with both groups of people, and I have not seen those substantive discussions in those meetings.

Uh and I don't know what your perspective is or or Councilmember Taylor's.

I'm this is just me speaking.

I think what I get really excited about the government operations committee having the power to do is I think that it is 100% appropriate in our purview to ask our state and county partners about a topic that is part of a government operation and how can we do it better, how can we deliver services better?

And I think that is a very broad scope, but one that uh I obviously have a lot of thoughts about ways that we, and I know you do as well.

We've we've shared some of those ways that we can partner better with our state partners.

Obviously, it's a very busy time right now for them, so um it's perfect that we're getting ourselves going, and then as soon as we're ready, uh they'll be coming back home and sharing all the good work that they did.

But I think there's probably a way to organize that work.

I'd like to I'd like to think about it, I think, just because I want to make sure like I think we could really benefit from just having uh and I say suggest, but some having some presentations from state agencies about in maybe the top three questions are what ways do you touch the city of Frederick, what are some accomplishments you'd like to share, and what ideas do you have to make it better?

And I have a feeling we would learn a tremendous amount of information that we could then use to leverage to do better here.

We've never done that, uh, but I I have a feeling that it would be very interesting and impactful to hear from like the Department of Aging, for example.

They liaison with the county, but there's no reason why we can't you know also liaison and figure out okay, what in what ways can we incentivize another senior center here in the city of Frederick?

I I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a feeling we would and before I forget we should include FCPS at a recent candidate forum.

I asked two of the uh alum candidates about that, and they said, Oh, it would be the as you know, you you have taken the lead in pushing that cooperation, but they said yes, there's an opportunity that when the city of Frederick does development work, it would be nice if the city school, I mean the county school system was involved for planning as well as just informational purposes.

Because I understand that a new school costs 150 million dollars, so member Taylor, I could see you being interested in having having a subcommittee that takes a look at FCPS building from the planning from our planning team's perspective from the FCPS planning perspective.

I'm not putting you on the spot, you can think about it, but um I could see you digging into that.

But just wanted to Yeah, that's something I would be interested in.

My heart beat a little bit faster when we start talking about it.

If you're amenable to that.

Oh, absolutely.

That's delightful.

That's great.

Um, can we go back to the topic of employees real quick?

Yep, absolutely.

So something that that just came to mind is um sorry about the sneezing sounds.

Um I'm curious if the city has difficulty filling some roles, some positions, and if that's something that's just something that I would like to know, and if that is an issue, if we could just find out more information to see if there's anything that we could do.

Maybe that's not really a role of of this committee, but just in case it is, throwing it out there.

Councilmember, one of the things that you sort of are bringing up that I had thought about but then forgot that I thought about it, is this concept of creating a query from the committee and then reporting back on the answer to that query.

I I don't think it always necessitates a full topic meeting, but it could just be that you know, we create a list of questions that we asked in the cons in the context of our business, and then one of the sort of to-do items that I have or the subcommittee chair has obtaining the answer and then coming back to the full committee once that answer has been obtained and sharing that information.

Um, I think that would be a really that would be a process change that I think would be really good for you, or even if it's in our backup, um just ongoing sort of questions from the committee from the previous meeting or a previous meeting, and then doing that follow-up.

We we don't currently, to my knowledge, we don't currently do that.

Of course, Clara does a fantastic job of taking that information and getting, you know, working on the answer.

But I think just having that in full full public might be a better way to go about that.

Yeah, I like that.

And an invitation to the public too, the many members of the public that want to come to our meetings, but um they can they can email it to us uh or you know, send it in or appear here, and uh we can include those as well.

Council members, we are almost at 90 minutes.

We've done more I'm thrilled with how much we got done.

Um I want to be respectful of everyone's time.

Is there anything else for the good of the order as we wrap up our first organization meeting?

Um for the group.

Our next meeting together, all together will be on.

I think we had said that.

So the second will be we're gonna talk about the land management code.

Um I appreciate your indulgence there because it's gonna take me a couple minutes to get everything together for that.

So and just to check, are we meeting on the 26th?

I had reserved that for your subcommittee.

Thank you.

Okay.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, absolutely.

Um and going forward, I mean, obviously we have we have tons of work to do, but you know, as we have these subcommittees meet, you know, we'll just work, we'll just work it into the schedule.

Um, and I will strive to have so my homework will I will strive to have work plans or at least drafts um sent to everybody for each topic, or a subcommittee.

And obviously, if if if you're if you're running the subcommittee, and it can be the work plan doesn't have to be it, it could just be bullets, right?

About what we're trying to achieve, and and obviously we're gonna keep them updated, and it doesn't have to be don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Uh, I I struggle with that.

I tend to want to write research papers, and that doesn't really help anybody.

So we'll aim to try to get because my goal would be that we have by the end of maybe by the end of February, we have everything, or at least we're we've started to put these online so people can track what we're what we're working on.

So from a process standpoint, when I come up with a work plan, should I share it with the other committee members or share it with Phyllis to be posted or both?

I would share it with the other committee members because I think we'll you'll have a everybody will have a chance to put comments in and that'll yield a better product.

Just keep in mind that we need to we typically like to have things posted a week in advance.

So if we could uh for the second, that would be the 26-ish uh in terms of and it's a lot of work to do in a very short amount of time.

So really like this is we're setting goals.

Um we've never done it before this way, so let's try.

If you're familiar with if you're comfortable with that, Councilmember Taylor, that's how we'll move forward.

Yes, sounds good.

Okay.

All right, any last comments for the group.

Is there any public comment?

All right.

Well, with that, our first meeting is finished.

I really appreciate the uh intentionality and what the work uh behind it.

So thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Bye.