We have on our agenda a draft ordinance that seeks to address a challenge that is not a new challenge to the city of Frederick, one that seems to be coming up more and more frequently now.

Um I'll speak for myself.

Um last term we had a neighborhood in Councilmember Bram's district that uh was plagued.

Uh I'll call it plagued because it really was plagued, and we were getting videos of rats uh that were just running amok.

Uh and it seemed to sort of settle down.

There were some actions that were taken.

I know the neighbors really worked really hard.

Um, but I don't say I would think the neighbors there have I haven't been talking to them as much because I no longer represent them, but I'd say they would would argue that um I saw them at National Night Out uh last August, and they would argue that they're still very much a challenge.

Uh and I have a neighborhood of my district, uh, Carroll Park Manor.

We've heard some constituent comment here in this boardroom uh that we just there is a um it it it sort of goes beyond a problem.

It's really a crisis.

If you go, and I have to Carroll Park Manor during the day, you will if you wait and you just sit in your car and you just watch, you will see rats running around.

Um it's disgusting, and it is not acceptable in twenty twenty-six in the city of Frederick.

So what we have in front of us is a beginning of a draft um for the public's awareness for our awareness.

This is the first time that we're sort of working on this draft in public.

The full council will get a chance just as a sort of process matter.

The we've had staff weigh in, we've had the Department of Public Works as well as legal weigh in with their respective changes.

That's not the version that is published today.

The ver the version that is published today is the original version.

So what's going to happen is we're going to talk about those changes.

We're going to talk about changes up here that we'd like to see or you know, just discuss.

And then I'm going to make additional changes with those staff comments and flip that around for posting for the Thursday meeting.

So for Thursday's meeting, there will be the original um draft that's posted right now, and hopefully there will be a version that's been edited uh after our conversation today, just so there's sort of this version control of what we're talking about.

So everybody knows what sort of what's going on.

And then eventually, I think sometime in August, hopefully we'll go to uh hearing.

If the committee agrees.

That seems annoying.

But but staff did go through and make pretty sizable changes or s significant changes, I should say.

Zach Kirschhner of the Department of Public Works suggested that we eliminate all references to timing and leave that up to code enforcement, which I thought makes sense.

I'm open to other ideas, but why write it into an ordinance when code enforcement could could probably be big allow greater flexibility?

Building construction and demolition, the ordinance as written refers to demolition.

And and thank you for your reference to what happened in District 3 last year.

That was a that rat infestation was caused by the development of the building on prospect where the field was disrupted and all the rats moved over into the neighborhood.

I did check with a couple residents since then, and I said, now are you sure that it was only just after that building started being constructed that the rat infestation occurred?

And they both said yes.

So I just verified that that my my recall on that.

So I I just I think that we need a building construction plan as well as building demolition, just to write construction as well as demolition in here.

Um then as part of that, I just want to make sure that it's the developer of the building who is responsible for the mitigation program, not in the neighbors.

So if the neighborhood is infested by rats because of a building construction that that that's the developer pays for that mitigation or that the city does it and then bills back the developer.

Um however that works is okay with me.

So those are really the the two the two big ones is time make give the city flexibility on the timing and then uh make sure that construction is covered.

I I don't know if I agree on removing the days.

Um I see the comments that we we don't want to we wouldn't want it to be we don't want to if it if we could be less than 15 days, we certainly would want it to be like you know, the less than comment, I thought so let me think of a good example.

So sorry, we've got like so many different versions of the pages are now all messed up.

But the when we look at the what about 12.5.93 D is in Dr.

Exactly, thank you so much.

Okay, so I don't I don't know I don't know why there that resistance, I'm not sure I'm understanding the resistance there.

Um it's just that it is it the code enforcement doesn't want to be held to that to that time frame.

I mean, is that I'm trying to because I don't know that I agree.

That because part of the reason for the ordinance is to get action very quickly, right?

To to put this to put this on the top of the list, given that unlike unlike some problems, this problem I'm gonna really try not to use a lot of horrible mom puns when we talk about these things.

But like this problem does multiply very quickly, so I don't know that.

I'm not sure I understand that part.

Other than we just don't want a timeline.

So I'll probably I probably will resist that.

But a lot of the other changes that that code enforcement recommended, and I can I can generally go through those just for the good of the order.

A lot of um Director Kirshner's corrections were I think grammatical, or should I say improvements to the legislation, like the wording?

Um I think I'll also there was some comments about not including reporting.

I'll resist that too.

But uh Chair, what one more item.

Uh thank you for jogging my my brain.

Uh Zach Kirchhner made reference to uh an ordinance about vacant that he correctly references it that talking about commercial buildings.

We need to make sure that vacant residential buildings are covered.

And the hard part is how to define that.

But there is a policy debate here about, and I think that is the role of the homeowner/slash occupant and external sort of like the HOA and the I think one of the things that I think should be debated is does this ordinance put the right amount of burden on the person who lives in the home?

Because there does get to be a point, and I think Carol Manor has been a good example as well as um our friends in South Frederick that the problem, and it's just as you say, the problem was it really started when the ground was moved and new development occurred, and we suddenly now have massive rat populations.

Um how much of that is the homeowners' fault, so to speak, and why is it up to them?

But that being said, I do think you can't ignore the role of individual homeowners, making sure that actions are being taken to reduce the easier.

Yeah.

So I owe you for that because Section 12.5 and I agree.

I agree.

The owner has a role to play in this.

Uh section 12.5.92A.

The owner of a building is responsible for ensuring that it is adequately road-improved to prevent rodent ingress.

And then I was delighted by B three in that section.

Occupants are responsible for rodent control in the areas they occupy and control.

So as an occupant, I do have a role to play in in for my space.

Which I thought was great.

And that's the language that was struck to try to capture this idea that there is common space that is not.

Yeah.

Right.

So common space belongs to the owner, but my space belongs to me.

I have a role to play in in keeping rats at bay.

Right.

Do you both have comments from DPW?

Are you looking at those?

Yes, do you need that?

I never received them, I don't think.

Thank you.

Um as far as vacant residential buildings or vacant buildings, you could tie this into the vacant property register to make that a requirement.

The one that we use for commercial buildings?

Well, I'd be delighted.

But we also have it, don't we have it for residential as well?

Yeah, I think we do.

Okay.

Yeah, that would be great.

That way it'd take a year, but I mean, you know, once when it gets on the register.

If we modify that to include or modify this to include those properties that are on the register have to have a plan.

You know, the whatever section it is.

Did you get Rachel's comments?

No?

Okay.

Well, let me so just for the public's knowledge, I'm gonna forward the comments from our attorney and CEO from Zach Kirchner.

Yeah, I don't know why the distribution list would be not include the members.

Okay.

My apologies.

It looks like Libby wouldn't have gotten them easy.

Uh, Councilmember Taylor would not have gotten them either, which I don't see her name on the list either.

I will make sure y'all get those.

But the public hasn't received those either, so we'll make sure those are included in the backup for Thursday as well.

And and just so I'm tracking, can can you repeat where residences get included on a vacant vacancy registry?

I believe the vacant property register includes commercial and residential buildings.

I believe it's something after it's been vacant for a year, they have to apply to get on the register.

Okay, thank you.

So one thing we had gone back and forth with sort of as a threshold matter before this ordinance came forward was this notion of and I I think we still may uh the city has sort of a couple of ways that we express or um take action.

And one of the things we we sort of have tossed around was the do we think that we need a resolution that expressly states that rodents and rats are a public a threat to public health.

Um that's not what's in front of you, but I wanted to bring it up because that was actually the predecessor of this ordinance, and then we were sort of like as we were writing this, we were thinking what should, you know, it's sort of chicken and egg.

So I wanted to get the committee's feedback about that if you thought that was necessary or if you think the preamble for this ordinance is sufficient to move that forward.

Do we need another resolution that says rats are icky?

I think it's self-evident, but I didn't want to do another one.

Does the preamble and the um sort of this beginning of this capture what we're trying to do and the why?

Um the goal was to keep this relatively to the point, but also I think it looks good.

These definitions are new.

So the document we have does not reflect some of uh Mr.

Kirshner's comments.

So for example, he suggested under 12.590, G is in girl IPMC eliminate 2021 so that when it gets updated, uh I mean, but those are to me almost grammatical as opposed to philosophical.

Right.

And again, Councilmember Atkins, that same section N is a Nancy vacant building.

We're defining it again, if Chapter 12.5 Article 4 does refer to residential as well as commercial, then I'm good.

But if not, I'd just like to see it clarified that residential is included.

So Section 12596 is sort of some of the, I guess I would say the meat and potatoes of the of moving forward.

Um this is to be more prescriptive than I think I would argue that is typical, and I think this is where some of the comments will reflect that sentiment.

So I wanted to flag this because I would imagine that when we come to full council on Thursday that would be just something to pay special attention to.

Right.

And uh Zach Kirshner had suggested that we make sure we check in with these departments to get their feedback.

But I'm sure that would be part of our process.

So question about that for 12596.

Is the plan being implemented by the city, or is the plan being developed by the city and given to the neighborhood?

HOA?

Maybe they don't have an HOA.

So the goal was to have this be a city plan, and if that's not obvious, then we probably need to fix it.

No, I I read it that way, but I'm just making sure I read it correctly.

Yeah, I I did have a question on uh 12.596 six, since in my experience in Washington, D.C., mulch was a contributor as opposed to a solution to it's so I hear you.

And I I put that in there and I expected that comment and I did not get that comment.

I thought um, unless I missed it, but one of the one of the this came from Boston, I believe, as a mitigation strategy that um it was a non-toxic Boston's rat or rodent response was very focused on environmental friendly sort of strategies.

They were very concerned with trying to avoid using any sort of toxins or pesticides.

So uh but they are a lot bigger city than we are, and so anyway, that was they have like a database and everything of rat they're tracking their rats.

And on that uh Zach Kirshner had said that the city is not equipped to do number six.

Yeah, I'm sure it did.

And I understand that there are two types of rat issues.

There is the n problem that I and maybe a neighbor have, and then there's the problem that you and I both have experienced in our districts where an entire neighborhood is overrun.

This strikes me as being a neighborhood overrun as opposed to a localized issue.

And in that case, I wonder should the and again I understand we're Frederick and not Washington, D.C., but in Washington, D.C., one could call a phone number and they would do a neighborhood wide rodent side.

Every borough, every just everywhere, because you can't treat for rats in one property, otherwise they run to the next door.

So it would be a a neighborhood that defined, I don't know what several square blocks would be treated at one time at the city's expense, City of Washington's expense.

And that that is, I think what what ultimately we need to get to.

And so I understand we're not DC either, but we also don't have DC size problems, right?

So I think adding a number seven or adding a number five and then having number six become and I'm fine with number six being struck.

I just I thought it was an important part of the discussion of you know there are things that we can do that aren't necessarily right, but um and being creative about being proactive about ways that we can reduce the population.

But I think to your point, there has to be a way that we do have a response when we have a problem to the scale which we have, right?

So um and I I'll also understand the city may not have the skill set to do it, but we certainly could contract with a certified pest control organization to ha handle that.

I don't want to use the demand verb, but request suggests that we use uh rodent sides that are uh the least harmful to birds of prey.

I had feedback from district three residents that some rodent sides kill birds of prey as the rat staggers around after it's been poisoned.

And I Googled source of all wisdom and learned that there are some lesser poisons that could be used as well.

I mean most restaurants have large traps that let them in and not out.

I mean, that's another way.

But I mean, leave that to the professionals.

On this, do we need to set up a and again it this is not a daily this is probably a seasonal event, but do we need to set up some easy way for residents to get a hold of the city to say, hey, I think there's a problem in my neighborhood.

I I don't want to call it a rat hotline, but a complaint form, something that was that was supposed to be four, but I think um twenty-five point twelve point five-96.

That was number four.

Um but I think you're right in that that sounds that's not really what that now reads like it's sort of one-way communication.

That to me reads now one way communication.

Um I think by the way, uh control for the what the city pays for might go only if a rat action plan is created.

In other words, it's only after and that then goes back to your point about should council say Houston, we have a problem.

In other words, make it official that there's a a neighborhood issue as opposed to a lot of things.

So it would be upon declaration of a rat infestation, the rodent abatement team would kick in.

Um making that up too.

Oh, that too.

Also when the rodent abatement team, sorry, it's cute.

Um if they determine that there is not an issue that needs to be communicated as well.

I mean, this just jumps right into that there will be an issue.

So before before A.

Well, I think, I mean, and code enforcement does this already, but if they leave c if people leave contact information with code enforcement, they do respond back.

But I I just see this as a could be a point of friction where the city says it doesn't rise to the level, you know, to do a plan, but the residents aren't satisfied with that.

It'll just be a point of friction, but I mean, at least if the city can respond and say, you know, we looked at, you know, your neighborhood during the hours between one and two, you know, give a list of why they determined it wasn't.

It doesn't get elevated to the next level.

And then you think presented to that assessment gets presented to city council, Peter, and then your idea about a vote up, yes, or down.

Yeah, the downside of a presenting city council is it delays.

The upside is that it we're saying we're gonna spend the fill-in-the-blank $5,000, $10,000 to abate a neighborhood.

So I'm also I trust DPW to hand and code enforcement to handle that as well.

So I don't feel that that must be a city council activity.

But I think my only challenge has been that I feel and I sort of feel this respectfully in the comments, in that there's sort of been this, and I I understand I I sort of from an um historical point of view that it I think historically issues regarding rats in the city of Frederick has been viewed as individual homeowner challenges and not neighborhood wide.

We need to scale up and address them.

And I think that's what I'm trying to encourage is like we've got to have a mechanism.

So I want to I want to honor the expertise of like there we saw one rat, it doesn't require this.

Because also I don't want if there isn't really a problem, we don't want wide-scale pesticide applications.

So I also but but I also one of these things like what we've seen so far is like you can take videos of rats.

So it's I guess I'm just trying to there's gotta be a happy medium.

And so what how do we I I like the idea of having the staff assessment because I think that is that's happening anyway, and I think that's a smart that's a smart ad.

Um but how do we how do we make sure the neighbors are heard in the event that there is a problem?

I guess is so first philosophically I agree with you 100%.

So the only issue is what's the catalyst for the So I guess the question is if you know if I call in there's a rat problem in my neighborhood, is it DPW and code enforcement that are gonna go out and determine that?

Or is it DPW going to hire a consultant to go out and I mean and Zach said in his memo that they don't have the staff expertise to I mean we can see rats, you know.

We can but so my guess is they're going to have to hire a consultant or not consultant, a company to go out and inspect.

And so that 10 days is going to get pushed back unless they have one on retainer that they can call up that they you know keep on retainer for two years at a time.

Um I mean and I and I think Brittany and her crew could go out and you know see the telltale signs of rats, but then you know, and part of that you know, you'll be sending code enforcement out at night to catch them in the act.

I suffer so I mean just logistically we gotta work through that, or DPW needs to give us input on what they think is the best way to approach that.

Well, and I do want to be like so code enforcement has been incredibly responsive.

Like they've been out the next day, and I think I think we've seen the limitations to which they're able, this isn't like we shouldn't, that isn't their responsibility.

So but I also I'm not sure that it isn't crazy that a city of our size doesn't have qualified pest control experts on a verified contract for quick response.

Um I realize that would be a shift, and so they'd have to go out for procurement, they would have to do that.

It's not something that we have now, but I that might have to be something that we change.

The city may already have somebody uh a contractor for all the buildings we own.

You know.

So that they may already be we just need to expand it to include rat service or you know whatever it is.

Okay.

But I like that idea.

I if if we don't have somebody on contract, then uh just to kind of walk through a possible flow chart.

I call the city and say I have a rat infestation problem, city code enforcement sends out the expert to evaluate my property and surrounding properties, and then come back and say this is an isolated problem or no, this is a neighborhood problem.

Does that seem like a reasonable?

Yep.

That sounds reasonable to me.

Okay.

The point that you made, Peter, about the ability for residents to report in.

I was looking back at the language that had originally gone in.

I think so the we have pretty robust reporting capability on the website.

And I would love um one of the early things we did was let people know to use that website to report.

I think and I like being able to speak with a coordinated voice that way and like direct everybody to one place.

So I'm wondering about just including a sentence that maybe maybe we create a new form.

We're all pulling up our City of Frederick forms, but code enforcement has forms.

But if we're gonna if we're gonna expand this to include specifically a rodent concern, um I don't think I've done this before where it's pretty easy for staff to I'll just I'll just write out what needs to be on the form and they can pretty easily create a new form so that it gets to the right person or it gets to the right it and that now even with open gov, I don't even know if it might even be easier, but I think that's a relatively low-hanging fruit.

Yep, it and it it could it's under public works and it could be a rodent issue or so for neighborhoods like Peter and mine, which have no HOAs, and then Katie, I assume yours has an HOA.

Is there a way that the city could recoup any cost by going after the HOA?

I mean, and again, I don't know if this is you know a five thousand dollar problem or a fifty thousand dollar problem, but if it's a higher amounts, I think we should try to recoup.

Right.

Like, can we assess can the city do HOA assessments?

So we've been exploring, I know Rachel has been exploring what our ability to because it HOAs are so heavily governed, as you know, by state law, she has been looking into for me what we can and can't do.

But I wonder if because of the way that you just phrased that question, I actually am wondering if it is a fee structure.

Like, could we create a new fee structure for this purpose that is separate than it's not a tax, but we are our municipal code does permit us to charge fees for services.

So I'm I don't know the answer to that.

I have to ask.

Um do you mean proactively?

So every year the HOA pays a $100 rodent mitigation fee.

I would I would be in favor of a HOA is affected by rodent infestation.

HOA, to your good point, Councilmember Atkins has a responsibility for that, therefore the HOA pays for all or some of the mitigation.

I would I I think that's a good idea.

As opposed to a proactive fee.

Right.

No, I think.

I think it's probably a different ordinance too.

But I don't know.

I have to find out the answer to that.

I'll say that I'm going to try to talk as diplomatically as I can because in my district, we have all levels of HOA and their involvement.

And they're elect HOAs are a real problem in the city across the city.

So it's not just my district, but I do think my district has like the full rainbow of all amazing actors.

So and I don't think it's possible if I'd have to, I'd have to ask, but if we are going to employ a pesticide contract for the neighborhood, I don't know that you can apply pesticides in common areas owned by HOAs without their permission.

So I think we have to find the answer to that out.

Yeah.

And and just to ask colleagues, your opinion philosophically, are are you in agreement that an HOA has a civic with a small C responsibility for the people who live in that HOA?

Well, they do, and I think they also have a contractual big C obligation as well.

And I think one of the things, and again, I'm gonna try to speak diplomatically because initially when this problem arose, we were having challenges getting feedback or connections back from the HOA.

And I think when it became very obvious that nobody was going anywhere, we started to get some information back.

So I'd like the HOAs to continue to participate in the solution building.

I don't want to, but in the instance where you have an HOA that isn't being a good actor and they're not picking up trash that's in common spaces and they're not taking care of, I mean, our parks department does an amazing job of taking care of common spaces, common park areas.

But HOAs who have pocket parks who let them become harborages for rats, well, what are we going to do about that, right?

So um and that is a real problem in these neighborhoods.

So certainly want to not go on a tangent about that, but that is that is definitely part of the challenge.

And how do we make sure that they're also being held accountable, I think is part of the discussion.

Um I'm sorry, I think I probably ranted past your question, but it's been it's been a learning experience because understanding the points of the law of which the city has the ability to control HOAs is a real interesting policy winding.

Um Rachel is working on that, I think for us.

So I think it's something we're gonna want to keep exploring.

Councilmember Atkins, do you have a philosophical opinion about HOAs and I try to stay out of HOAs.

Um but I agree.

I HOAs do have a responsibility to the neighborhood.

I mean, and it really I mean depending on the plan, if it's one or two houses that are causing the issue, or if it's you know the the trash corrals and that kind of stuff.

I mean, so really I think it depends on the situation.

Although I would assume that if the city imposed or tried to regain the cost for uh a rodent plan, you know, if it was fifty thousand dollars, I'm sure that cost would be get passed on to the individual property owners in the HOA.

So it's just something else to think about.

I I get I I just in my experience though, the HOA is responsible for creating and uh maintaining community standards such as trash pickup in common spaces and trash pickup and storage in private spaces.

So that's why I think HOAs have a role to play.

The other thing uh that I wanted to bring up that I I don't think comes through right now in this ordinance language, and this is probably my last thing to bring up is that I made a note um after seeing staff comments, is just so I think I'm gonna I'd like to see something added that this this action plan that we need to be I think and I'm I've been working I've been thinking about the wording of it.

Um so if there are things that can be done, so if biweekly trash pickup or um you know employing our arborist to cut down trees.

I'm sorry, I think I was talking out of the mic.

Um but if there are budget items that we need to be considering, I want I want there to be a sentence that says something to the effect of you know, if city services need to increase to address the problem, then this is the justification for that.

I think I think sometimes that's if you're in the if you're in the Arborist department, parks and rec department, you know, you may not feel the agency to come forward with a budget amendment unless it's specifically written.

So I wanted to see.

I'm gonna see if I can add that language as well that just says something to the effect of departments are encouraged to you know respond.

So could it be framed in it if city services need to be increased in order to address this?

Staff is expected or required to come in front of council and talk about the barriers including budget implications, just so that it doesn't get shuffled away of well, city council never gave us money.

Well, we never asked city council for money.

And it also takes the burden off of it's not it's not a staff driven, it's in the ordinance, right?

Right.

Right.

Okay.

And some of I mean picking them Carroll Manor, just because we've been talking about it that's going right across from independence, right?

Okay.

Um so their roads are private roads, and I don't believe the city provides trash pickup back there.

I imagine we do, but it's a weird way, and Marion's here, she can tell you.

So we don't we do the um you have to bring it out in front of the townhouse, and we don't we haven't historically provided the the trash cans.

So people are putting the the the biggest people are putting bags out, and so I think at some point they provided the trash cans, and to be fair, people don't want to take the big, they don't want to lug the big trash bin because they have inside group homes, so they just don't want to pull them around.

So historically, what has happened is they just they just put bags out.

Okay.

So we'll do public comment now if that's okay.

Okay.

Um, Miss Marion, just turn it on.

You got the little button.

You can have a seat if you can have a seat.

This is a lot more informal.

Well, I mean, it's all really good.

Okay, yeah.

Just so um I've owned for over 20 years, and um the issue with Carroll Park is that when I lived there over 20 years ago, and really up until just recently, we had two-day trash days, right?

We've always put our trash in front because of the way as she explained how we are kind of like inside of each other, kind of like that.

So the trash come um trucks uh has to kind of back in and then they get our trash cans.

So we did that, we just put trash out, but we used to have a two-day trash, so two-day trash um pickup and then a one-day recycling.

Well, 20 years.

We never had rats or we never had um mice.

So they would come after the pickup, uh the HOA would send folks to come and kind of you know, the debris that comes from them throwing stuff into the into the trunks.

And they would come in and pick up.

Two things happened.

Um the trash days went to one-day trash.

So you have an accumulation of trash that you have to keep in your house.

Then HOA came up with, oh well, we don't want you putting your trash out that way because people starting putting the trash in the islands because you have so much trash, and you're not able like to come.

The trash um collection used to be before between 3 a.m.

and five.

Because um I was in the military, so I gotta go to PT, so I'm out by 5 a.m., they were already gone.

They had already picked up the trash.

So coming back years later, like 2018 time frame, I'll tell you, um, they were coming later, a little bit later in the day, so then you're stuck with trash in front of your house.

I mean, in front of your parking space.

So you had to literally move your trash out of your parking space, and then where you got to put it back.

So people started putting trash on the islands, you're just dumping trash there because now it's a whole week's worth of trash.

Then after that, HO was like, okay, we want you to start using trash cans.

Or people started using trash cans.

So they would keep their trash cans in front of their houses because like we're just trying to this is a beautiful neighborhood.

I mean, I I I I love this neighborhood from you know, when I first purchased it.

So people were like trying to figure out like where do we put our trash?

So they started buying barrels, and I'm one of those people.

I bought the trash can and I would have my trash inside of the trash can, just on the side of my house.

It wasn't messy or anything like that.

So kind of people started doing the same thing.

Okay, that that makes sense.

You know, I'm gonna try and start buying a trash can and putting the trash out there.

Worked.

We didn't have rats.

So people would just, you know, move your little trash can in front of your car that's easier to move than 10 bags of trash, and then if you if they weren't there yet, you would move it, and then you bring it back onto your space, and then you go on a bunch of business.

Somewhere between there, I didn't live there, but I had tenants there.

HOA came through and was like, plant a bush to cover up the ugly uh trash cans in front of people's homes and or put a gate.

And they were finding us, okay?

So they were finding us.

If you didn't do it, you gotta find.

And you continue to have this fine, continue, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So then folks started saying, okay, well, I can't figure out how to put a gate up there because it's all concrete.

And some people planted bushes, and then some folks just use the back.

You just put it in your the back of your house, it fenced in, and that's all good.

So now when they went and they started developing all these houses around us, you know, all the prey animals, you know, they now have to leave.

They don't have it, so these rats come across the street.

Well, geez, this is great.

All you can eat, buffet, plus I get to live here for free.

So they come across because we've been putting trash out.

So for 50 plus years, the trash wasn't being broken into, but now you have a problem because you have these displaced rats who multiply every 23 days, you know, 14 babies per rat, you know.

So rat problem.

I lived there four years ago, no rats.

But they had just started, you know, kind of developing the area, whatever.

When I come back now, because I had tenants and I live far from here and I was out of state for a little bit.

So I come back just in the beginning, like last year or whatever, just in the beginning of that, we end up having all these um mice and stuff like that.

Mice are easy to get rid of.

The biggest issue that I say I've been there actively living at the house for the past two months.

And I will tell you, I've taken a lot of video, and I watched because I'm trying to figure out like how to you know fix this problem.

Two years ago is my understanding that's when this problem started, and people reach out to HOA.

Nothing was done.

So they've just multiplied, multiplied, multiply.

I will speak for my little house, okay.

We're there temporarily, there's there's no food really.

It's just me and my son.

We're working on the house, so we don't have like a lot of food.

I don't throw the trash out in the trash can, I take it with me daily and I throw it out.

Problem is it doesn't matter what I do.

They have a problem, they have a problem.

I don't have food in my yard, but it's a pass-through.

This neighbor has a trash can in their backyard that the rats have eaten through it, they're pretty clean.

This neighbor is not at all clean, and they have a lot of people that live there.

They put their trash outside, they have an accumulation of trash.

So, you know, I could say, and I can speak because they were my tenants at some point.

They have a lot of people that live there.

They're trying.

And I've seen them trying to fix the problem.

But what do you do with trash for over a week when you got dozen people living there?

And okay, forget them.

You got a big family with lots of kids, trash.

I mean, where do you do with it?

So the thing is that I would like to see, and I'm glad that Miss Nash has touched on this, is just increasing the trash pickup day.

And I'll give you an example, Juneteenth.

Trash was out.

Nightmare.

They came Monday to pick up the trash, picked up the trash on Monday.

Because it was on Monday pickup, we kind of won, right?

That week because we ended up getting a Thursday of a Friday pickup.

So we got two pickup days.

And I will tell you between that and them cutting some of the trees, you could actually see reduction in rats, right?

Activity, at least activity.

It appears to be kind of reduced.

And then we have Fourth of July.

A repeat, right?

Of what just happened previous week, because Fourth of July fell on Saturday, blah, blah, blah.

And then so Friday we didn't have a pickup.

So we had trash out.

But me and some of the neighbors, we put out signs saying, do not put trash.

I went door to door and knocked on people's doors when I saw that they put trash out, and I was just like, please don't put trash out.

It's not a trash day.

Some people picked up their trash, but others had put in the island, so I had no idea.

I'm just doing this because I'm really just watching to see like what's working and what's not.

And it is hoping.

So I think that it doesn't maybe necessarily have to be like a forever thing, two days a week type of trash can, uh trash pickup type of thing.

I just think until this is somewhat mitigated or at least managed because they're not going anywhere.

And they just and they just I have uh uh uh what you call it um company that I've hired.

I hired one and then I hired another one.

They put out those big bait things that have like a rock underneath them.

These things are like mutants, okay.

My backyard, there's no trash, there's nothing.

They put one against the fence and it's a rock.

And he was like, there was a hole there because they're not, they're digging from my yard, eating through my fence to go to the neighbors because that's where the food is.

They don't necessarily live at my house or even maybe live there.

They have their borough somewhere, but this is just where they go get their food.

So the guy decided he was like, there's a hole there.

I was like, that wasn't there yesterday.

He was like, he picks it up and he puts it on top of the hole.

He's like, they won't be able to move it.

You know, I guess.

They literally moved it out of their way because it covered one of the holes, moved this heavy thing, and then dug in between it and then continue to go for access.

So when the HOA is being put to be responsible for this, it's just gonna end up being my responsibility.

They're gonna just double me.

Already they city's coming after me, not me per se, but the residents to say, fix this, fix this.

Our gates are being eaten alive.

They're gates currently, which this is a problem that kind of I created, right?

They're getting all of us.

You know, it's like your your gate need you need to fix the gateposts or whatever.

They're eating through them and causing holes everywhere.

Not everybody has the money to do this.

I've been trying to help folks.

I go out there with my nail gun, whatever, and try to help people fix fences, but I'm not gonna be here forever, and I definitely can't do it for three, four hundred houses by myself.

So it's like the responsibility to us cleaning bushes, those things that we can do, but it's such a big problem that even me by myself, I'm being attacked in the sense that no matter what I do, it just defeats the purpose because they gotta do it, they gotta do it, everybody's gotta do it.

But before anybody can do any of that, the biggest issue is the trash.

Because without maybe they'll start to kind of leave.

Um, and I just think that that's like the best way.

And then the trash cans is also an issue.

The type of trash cans we have, regular trash cans that you buy from Walmart, they're eating the bottoms of the trash cans, they're eating the tops of the trash cans.

They're just eating the trash cans, so they're eating the trash cans, they're eating our fences, they're digging holes under our homes, destroying our homes.

I'm just, I am blessed that I'm handy, that I can do some things for myself, and I have my son to help me, you know, do some things.

But there's elderly people that live here that can't do it, or it's a money problem, or it's Islam Lord problem because other landlords are just not doing enough, or they're just coming in and thinking that they can do it this way, and you have to really put wire, you gotta dig, you gotta do all these things.

And I just wanted to, you know, let you guys know that there's a lot of things that a lot of the residents have tried and it's not working.

And the one thing that I know from knocking doors, door to door, is that really the trash pickup is needs to be just the one thing that will save us is the two-day trash.

I think if you guys did that for us, um, you know, I I know that there's an issue with other neighborhoods, but ours is just ridiculous.

I mean, they're so gutsy that at three and four o'clock in the afternoon, now you see them.

Where is it before it had to get dark?

Now you see them at three and four.

My son says he sees them, he saw them fighting the yard broad daylight.

So I don't know if they're getting just very aggressive or they're getting desperate, maybe because there's less food out there.

I don't know.

But I've done everything.

They're not even eating the bait.

They're not eating the bait.

And like the first one will come out and eat it and die and then never return again.

They're super duper smart.

They're smarter than us.

They're smarter than us.

So it's like the only way I've managed to do it is by disguising the poison inside of food.

But I get them, I don't want to keep doing that because I don't want to attract them to my house.

And two days ago, I watched one walk up the fence for my neighbor, hop over to my house and come in my house.

In my house.

I have not slept for two days, literally, because I've been looking for this thing.

And then I saw it, and it's like, no, no, no, no, and it just disappears.

How do you catch it in your house?

This is what I was scared of.

You know what I mean?

So I got one in my house currently, and I don't know what to do.

If I can get one in my house and I'm clean and I don't have food out because I'm there temporarily, what happens or what is happening in other people who are actually actively living there, and these things can hide in places.

Then last yesterday was my birthday, the day before yesterday.

I was up just trying to get ready for my birthday, and I was outside and saw a rat catch a mouse and eat it.

So they're eating the they're eating the mice, and then they're eating like the wild.

Another one was caught a frog that the kids have caught from the pond and brought it over, and it ate that.

I don't know what else to say.

That was disturbing for me.

So it's just gotta be an aggressive thing in our neighborhood.

It's really bad, really, really bad.

And I know it's unfortunate nobody else is here from the neighborhood, but I think just people are so disappointed and they just don't know what else to do.

I'm here because I know, you know, they're listening to me.

Our HOA was not.

And I went to an HOA meeting, which is, you know, I went to the HOA meeting and I kind of like tried to say, you know, we've been coming to you for two years.

Why did it take two years for you guys to have any action?

They don't care.

They don't care.

They're gonna point fingers at you guys.

And it's just challenging because it all falls back to us.

DPW comes out there, they're finding us, you know, and all these things.

And so if you guys could just help us with the trash, I think that is one thing, and then the neighborhood-wide abatement of these things, and then I feel like people have cleaned up, and I've been going through and telling people bushes, hey, those bushes, you're gonna get fined for the bushes.

And so as soon as I say fine, they're like, okay, and they cut the bushes.

I don't think people really understand how they're living, these rats are living.

But I've again, like I've said, I've been watching them, I've Googled a lot, and I've read about how rats behave, and I've kind of so I kind of know what to expect, but a lot of people just don't understand.

Even when you explain it to them, you know, they just don't understand.

So DPW is there every day.

They have been very active.

They're coming in and they're going back and checking, but it just needs to be more aggressive and not just because fixing a fence is not gonna change anything.

I spend the money to put on in a new fence, and then they come back and they eat the fence.

You see what I'm saying?

So it's gotta be just thank you so much for your time.

I really appreciate it.

Uh, I just wanted to say, you know, I have really tried everything, and these are just the results that I'm getting.

Um, the concrete and the wiring seems to keep them away, but not everybody can afford that, and not everybody's handy.

So it's just has to be realistic on what residents can do, really, honestly.

Um, because they're just in our homes, you know.

So thank you so much.

For the record, can you just say your name for me?

Oh, I'm sorry, Mary and Brown.

Yeah, Carol Park Manor.

Yeah, Carol Park.

Thank you, Miss Mary.

Bless you.

Do we know why trash pickup move from two times a week to one day a week?

Not yet.

I don't know yet.

So with your permission, I just want to quickly move on to one more item before we end our work for the day.

Um, I have a lot of homework to do because I have to put this, get this ready for for y'all to look at again on Thursday, one one document.

Um the work plan that is attached to the agenda today.

There are goals that are attached to each of those items.

You have not approved or seen those goals yet.

Um they were at they were attached to an earlier version of this document, but I just wanted to call those out because in my mind those are policy statements.

And I would like to meet it's like why do something if you don't have a reason for doing it, right?

So I'd like to get your approval of those goals maybe at our next meeting, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that those existed.

Um that you hadn't I just I literally just drafted them to have them attached to work the work that we're doing.

So just so you saw those.

Um the goals aren't necessary.

We can we can remove them, like it's not a must-have, but just I thought it was a nice like this is what we're working on kind of thing.

So this is the work plan updated.

Yeah, this is the I try to keep that updated, and I'll try to update this again for our next meeting.

There shouldn't be anything, there shouldn't be any surprises on here, but if there are, please let me know.

And if there's something missing, that's also important.

Um that is what I have for today.

If anybody has any other comments.

Um, I did have one more housekeeping item, sorry.

So we don't have a process for this yet.

Um, but there are times when grants uh require letters of support.

And typically those have gone to the mayor, and it's great because it just sort of and he they Kara does all that work and it's fantastic.

One such grant was um is for the it's for community mediation Maryland.

They are looking to bring a community mediation center to Western Maryland.

The mayor did his letter fantastic.

I got a call though that there was confusion because in the grant text there was are has your local body provided a resolution letter.

And so I just wanted to, because I knew we were having this meeting, there might be in the future a resolution that says we support this because it would be in this committee, we support a grant this grant application, but I don't think we need it, but I'm just letting you know.

So that that might be something because it's a little out of our process because it the typically the mayor handles all that.

So just wanted to say something for the good of the order.

And if we approved it would then go to full council.

Okay.

Yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

Yeah.

I think it's just per the gr per grant requirements if it has to have that.

That's all for me.

Thank you very much.

But before we do I I think it's easy being ignorant in my case.

And so a couple months ago, I was asked to write uh as a council member a letter supporting a grant.

And I did.

It is that always something that should come in front of them.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm sorry to, yeah.

No, you as individual council members can send any letters that you want.

Um it's it's when you want like a statement of city support, and typically it's just been easier for the mayor to just have that be in one place.

Yeah, yeah.

All right.

We are adjourned.

Thank you very much.