We will bring the regular assembly meeting to order for February 9th.

Ms.

Wall, would you lead us in the flag salute, please?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands.

One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Ms.

Wall.

Ms.

Canis, would you read our land acknowledgement, please?

Yes.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

We would like to acknowledge that the city and borough of Juneau is on unceded Clinkett land and wish to honor the indigenous people of this land.

For more than 10,000 years, Alaska Native people have been and continue to be integral to the well-being of our community.

We are grateful to be in this place, a part of this community, and to honor the culture, traditions, and resilience of the Klingat people.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Deputy Mayor Smith.

Here Miss Hughes Candies.

Here.

Ms.

Wall.

Present.

Mr.

Kelly.

Here.

Ms.

Adkisson.

Here.

Mr.

Steininger.

Here.

Ms.

Hall.

Here.

Mr.

Brooks.

Here.

Thank you.

You have quorum and all members.

Oh, Madam Mayor.

Here.

Thank you.

You have quorum.

All members are present.

All right.

Thank you for that, Madam Clerk.

Before we go into the special order of business, I just wanted to take a minute to recognize that Dr.

Carol Brown passed away on January 27th.

For those who don't know Carolyn, and it was always with a small C, because that's the way her birth certificate said, um, was very heavily into public health and was uh a female doctor that did lots of first throughout the state.

Um she met her husband George Brown, who people are familiar with in the as a pediatrician in the cadaver lab, so that's kind of fun fact.

And uh as she would say, she delivered the babies and the handed them to her husband.

So anyway, uh condolences go out to the Brown family, and she will certainly be missed.

With that, we go to our special order of business with our proclamation of National Engineers Week.

Mr.

Youcatel, any of the other engineers in the house, please come forward.

Yes, you don't just have to be in the city, any engineers at all.

Yes, so this is National Engineering's Week.

Whereas National Engineers Week is celebrated during the week of George Washington's birthday to honor the contributions, President Washington, a military engineer and land survey made to engineering.

And whereas the 2026 theme, transform your future is a powerful reminder that engineering doesn't just shape our world, it shapes our opportunities, our communities, and the futures we can imagine for ourselves and our children.

And whereas engineers use their scientific and technical knowledge and skills in creative and innovative ways to fulfill society's needs, and whereas engineers face the major technological challenges of our time, from rebuilding towns devastated by natural disaster.

Cleaning up the environment and assuring safe and efficient sources of energy to designing information systems that will speed our country into the future.

And where is the Juno branch of the American Society of Civil Engineers and Alaska Capital Engineers are local sponsors of National Engineers Week, celebrating the local accomplishments of projects of the year and engineer of the year recognition within the JNA region?

And whereas since 1983, the National Society of Professional Engineers has contributed time, sponsorship, and r resources in support of the National Math Counts Competition Series, a competitive mathematics program that promotes mathematical achievements through a series of fun and engaging B-style contests.

And whereas the June branch has established civil engineering and professional engineering scholarships for high school seniors pursuing Bachelor of Science degrees in the engineering and science fields.

Now therefore I Beth A.

Weldon, mayor of the City and Borough of June, Alaska on behalf of the City and Borough Assembly to hereby issue this proclamation acknowledging February 22nd through 28th, 2026 as National Engineers Week in Juneau, Alaska and call upon the people of Juno to recognize the essential contributions engineers make within our community.

Would you like to say a few words?

Certainly.

Wasn't prepared to, but Engineers Week is a we've been recognizing it for decades now.

We'll have a banquet on the 28th.

Um recognizing a project of the year and in an engineer of the year.

Um engineers do a lot for the community.

We take the one week of the year to recognize their efforts.

And um you mentioned uh actual disasters, but certainly it's engineers that are going to figure out the uh the GLOF issues and get us back on track.

So um Mayor appreciate the opportunity to recognize the engineers in Juno.

Thank you, everybody.

Can you please give him a round of applause and very scrambled?

Congratulations to Nate.

We look forward to his wonderful speech.

No pressure.

With that, we'll go to approval of minutes.

Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move that we approve the minutes for the January 12th um 2025.

Excuse me, is this 2026?

All right.

And ask for unanimous consent.

Uh thank you.

And we will uh correct that to 2026.

Any objections?

Seeing none, the minutes are approved.

With that, we'll go to manager's request for agenda changes.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I do have one request for an agenda change.

Thanks to the uh discerning eye of uh Assembly Member Hall.

Uh, we notice that uh the ordinance appropriating funds to St.

Vincent's through the Affordable Housing Fund is listed uh correctly in the ordinance itself is correct in the packet, but the title in the agenda is um misrepresenting.

The title on the agenda says it's for uh Hill Street facility improvements and the the uh grant is for facility improvements.

So, in order to correct this and move as expeditiously as possible, I'd like to request that that item be pulled from public hearing.

It's item number eight under uh public hearing and placed on the consent agenda for introduction.

With the correct title, correct?

Yeah, with the correct title.

And the correct title is uh in uh the supplemental is a supplemental, the the correct agenda is a supplemental item in uh your packet and online for the record.

All right, thank you for that.

Any more changes?

No.

All right, thank you for that.

So next we'll go to public participation on non-agenda items, and we'll start with Zoom first.

And we do have two people on Zoom for an on-agenda.

And since we have a few tonight, we'll limit it to two minutes.

Please bring over Mr.

Adams.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Uh, thank you for testifying tonight.

Uh, please state your name and area of town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Excellent.

My name is Joshua Adams.

I'm an incremental developer with multiple projects in downtown Juno, and I want to speak today about the historic resources advisory committee.

HRAC produces thoughtful, detailed, and well-articulated annual reports.

Those reports contain clear recommendations grounded in federal standards, National Park Service guidance, and deep local knowledge of Juno's historic fabric.

However, year after year, those recommendations are largely set aside, not incorporated, not debated, not refined, simply ignored.

The value of HRAC is not theoretical.

It exists to bring issues to the surface early, to flag risks before they become expensive mistakes and to help this body make informed decisions about historic properties and development patterns.

When its recommendations are not meaningfully considered, the city loses the benefit of that foresight.

HRAC is not an advocacy group, and it is not an obstacle to development.

It is a technical advisory body created specifically to help the assembly navigate complex historic regulatory and planning issues with clarity and confidence.

When you ask for its input, there should be a corresponding obligation to actually engage with what it provides.

Listening does not mean automatic adoption.

It means consideration.

It means asking follow-up questions.

It means explaining on the record why recommendations are accepted, modified, or rejected.

That feedback loop matters, not just for the commission members who volunteer their time, but for developers, property owners, and the public who rely on predictable, well-reasoned decision making.

Juno already has a strong tool in HRAC.

The request today is simple.

Use it.

Treat the historic resources advisory committee's work as part of the decision making process, not an appendix that gets filed away.

I particularly like HRAC because it's a place where I find some of the smartest members of our community all at one place at the same time.

Just to be a fly on the wall during one of the A-Track meetings is well worth my time.

I suggest you do the same, and thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Any clarification, clarifying questions for Mr.

Adams?

Seeing none, thank you for your testimony tonight.

Please bring over Max Rosen.

Mr.

Rosen, please state your name and the area of town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Hello again.

My name is Max Rosen, and I live in the Barons neighborhood downtown.

I'm a board member of the Friends of the Juno Public Libraries, and I'm here once again to share appreciation for our libraries and to reflect the voices of many community members who care deeply about them.

Recently, a longtime friends volunteer shared a story with me.

She's volunteered at the amazing bookstore for more than 16 years, but her connection to libraries began much earlier.

Growing up, her family's Friday night outings were trips to their local library in California.

As she got older, she would ride her bike there on Saturday mornings, spending hours exploring the stacks, eventually taking her very first job there as a high school student.

Later, she brought her own children to the Medanhall Valley Library in its various locations.

And today she brings her jam, her grandchildren.

For her family, the neighborhood library has remained a constant, a place of discovery, belonging, and shared community across generations.

Stories like this are not unusual.

They remind us that libraries are more than collections of books or digital resources.

They are accept accessible neighborhood spaces that people can reach by foot, by car, by bike, by or by bus.

They provide meeting rooms used by community groups, safe and welcoming spaces for people of all ages, and reliable access to information and technology.

Over time, they become part of the fabric of daily life.

Places where people grow up, learn, gather, and stay connected to their community.

On behalf of the Friends of the Genome Public Libraries, I want to express how strongly our members value our neighborhood libraries and the role they play in connecting our community.

We recognize that this year's budget decisions are challenging, and we urge you to continue supporting our libraries as a core service that benefits all of Juno.

Thank you for your time and thank you for your continued support of Geno Public Libraries.

Thank you.

Any clarifying questions for Mr.

Rosen?

Seeing none.

Thank you for your testimony tonight.

Next, we have Bruce Weyrock.

Please state your name and area of town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes, and you have to press the button on the mic to make it green.

Mr.

or Madam Mayor and members of the assembly, my name is Bruce Werock Bay.

And I'm here as a president of the Foundation for End of Life Care.

The mission of the Foundation for End of Life Care is supporting end of life services, including hospice bereavement care and community education.

On October 24, 2024, the CBJ Assembly unanimously adopted ordinance 24-01BG as in golf that appropriated 200,000 for the Bartlett Regional Hospice home home and hospice services.

Home and hospice operates at a deficit, so the assembly's action doing that was uh very important and continues to be important.

So I'm here tonight to thank the assembly on behalf of the foundation for its past and continue to support a Bartley Regional Hospitals Hospice Services.

And there's many reasons why CBJ support for hospice at Bartlett is critically important to Juneau in the Southeast Alaska.

As you've heard before, notably through the Juneau Economic Development Council, the 60 plus population Juneau grew from 18 to 24% between 2015 and 23, and this aging trend is going to accelerate.

Over 30 communities and 20 federally recognized tribes comprise the Southeast region, and it spans more than 35,000 square miles, a larger, an area larger than the combined areas of New Jersey, Hawaii, Connecticut, Delaware, and Rhode Island.

Yet this area has only a single hospice provider, which is at Bartlett.

Southeast Alaska has about 71,000 people that will eventually need end of life services.

And even Wyoming, with the smallest population of all states, has 20 hospice providers for its 580,000 residents and offers more access to hospice care for his residents than Southeast Alaska based on a population ratio.

Because Bartlett offers the entire Southeast Alaska region with the only accredited hospice and home care service.

The importance of hospice to this large area will only increase for Juneau and Southeast residents.

And we look forward to working with you in Bartlett in the future to ensure hospice is maintained and flourishes.

And thank you for your support.

Thank you.

Any questions for Mr.

Wyrock?

Seeing none.

Thank you for your testimony tonight.

Next we have Tony Tings.

Please state your name and area of town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

I'm Tony Tangs, and I live downtown.

I want to talk to you about parking on Telephone Hill.

I lived there for 28 and a half years.

And there's 13 homes up there or apartments, homes, whatever, and only four dedicated parking spots for four of those.

And the rest was just catch-us catch can.

I cannot count the number of times I had to park over by the governors.

Now you want to develop this place and put some high-end housing up there.

And especially high-end people, they're going to want parking for themselves, for their friends.

I would imagine three places per high-end place.

And that's a serious consideration.

So I've noted, I think that you guys already have this on your radar.

I noted in your um city and borough uh CIP for fiscal years of 2026 to 31.

There are in the year 28, there's 10 million dollars for Telephone Hill allotted, and then another 10 million dollar allotment a few years after that.

So I think that must be for parking.

And this could only be considered as part of the subsidy going into developing any of this housing on Telephone Hill, which I imagine just in round numbers, it's going to be a hundred units, which makes for easy math, because you're getting up to around 30 million dollars, which is easy math for 300,000 subsidy per unit, which you should be up front with with the people.

You should let people know what's coming.

This is this is coming.

It's all part of the project.

It needs to happen.

And I don't know if they'll feel kindly about subsidizing uh to that tune for the wealthy people.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions for Mr.

Tangs?

Saying none, thank you for your testimony tonight.

Next uh sign up for public participation on non-agenda items have closed and we'll continue with the lists we have.

So next we have Larry Talley.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

My name is Larry Talley, and I live in the flats.

And thank you, madam mayor and assembly.

Uh, thank you for doing this difficult job.

Once again, I want to focus on the 5.5 million appropriated for demolishing housing on Telephone Hill and the 3.5 million to relocate Dixon Street and install utilities for the newly vacant lots for a total of $9 million.

At this point, I think we agree that the Telephone Hill Redevelopment Concept C is financially infeasible.

And my last testimony offered three hypothetical proposals, and then I fumbled when you asked me questions.

I am capable of learning.

So tonight I'm offering you a real proposal.

Again, you might consider spending this money creating housing instead of demolishing housing.

Here's one way to do just that.

At the top of the Telephone Hill neighborhood is a parking lot, 10 or 15,000 square feet, fronting on Third Street in Dixon.

Adjacent to this parking lot behind the Bayless Powers House is another 10,000 square feet vacant lot.

Together, there's 25,000 square feet of buildable land accessible from either 3rd Street or Dixon with road and utilities already present on 3rd Street.

Using JEDC's 2024 residential construction cost estimate of 325 a square foot.

$9 million to provide 43 one bedroom units of housing on this land.

I don't actually expect CBJ to build and own this housing, but with a CBJ subsidy of $9 million, which is obviously available.

A developer could definitely build attractive housing here.

The target market would probably include legislative staffers during session and summer tourism workers after session.

A modest project, say 24 to 30 units could fit here with street level parking, decreasing costs per unit and increasing utility.

Remember that this project would also be ahead by the 13 existing housing units that don't have to be demolished.

So you can have your housing project and dancing in the streets.

Please invest the $9 million where it will improve Jenna's housing situation.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Any questions for Mr.

Talley?

Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thank you, Mr.

Talley.

I saw your email when you sent it with these details.

I haven't gone and looked at the properties that you pointed out, but could you tell me who owns them and what they are used for?

Uh CBJ owns them.

It's part of Telephone Hill.

Um so the parking lot, uh 15,000 square foot parking lot, I believe is leased to the governor's office or something like that.

Um I'm sure you can't just pull it away and take a put an apartment building there immediately, but I assume that lease has a limited time.

Um, the property behind uh John and Rachel's house is just a vacant lot.

Now, some of it's going to be steep, but some of it is flat.

And Catherine Fritz, who's currently traveling, has you know done the sketches and you know, she's an architect, used to be the city architect and then the airport architect.

And so this project I'm talking about is her project.

But um, you know, she when she returns to town will have some sketches and technical stuff available.

Any further questions?

See none, thank you for your testimony, Mr.

Talley.

Uh, next we have Mary Alice McKean.

Please state your name and area of time you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Um good evening.

My name is Mary Alice McKean.

I live in downtown.

I appreciate the start time at six o'clock, and I hope it's helping you guys get home at a reasonable time too.

Um, the city's decision to demolish Telephone Hill was based on the assumption that the demolit demolition would lead to the building of 155 new housing units, of which 20% will be affordable.

I sent you an email and it was later published in the empire.

The city cannot afford that development.

So the city is going to have to take another approach to development on Telephone Hill.

I'd like to see the city start treating Telephone Hill, the houses and the land as assets.

The city should determine conditions for development on Telephone Hill, sell or transfer the houses to persons willing to abide by those conditions and promote development on the vacant spaces around the houses, such as the small apartment building just described by Larry Talley.

Put another way, the city has assumed that the houses are unsafe, worthless wrecks.

That assumption is wrong.

The city can immediately save 5.5 million by not demolishing them.

As the intense interest in these houses show, many people value older historic homes and the craftsmanship in them that has enabled them to house people for over 100 years.

Can the city transfer the houses as is?

The answer is an unequivocal yes.

All the city has to do is identify the hazards for potential buyers through a written report, which the city is doing.

That maintains 13 units of housing right then.

In fact, a big positive of concept D, keep the existing houses and add units as can comfortably fit on the vacant land, is that the city would not have any costs associated with maintenance, old housing systems, improvements, and those things.

The city would establish rules and this would enable the houses to get special funds for restoration and renovation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions for Ms.

McKean?

See none, thank you for your test.

Thank you.

Next we have Paige Bridges.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record and you have two minutes.

Good evening.

Paige Bridges um Carroll Way downtown.

Well before I start I'll show you my house this is this is the um famous Tanaka house in Carrollway and I'm restoring it and we will restore it.

It doesn't matter how much it costs it it our storic resources of Juno are crucial for us and without this that whole neighborhood downtown on Carroll Way would actually be nothing.

So I feel the same way about Telephone Hill.

We gave you these pictures here to show you that the houses aren't decrepit at all.

They've been kept up the residents have even paid for repairs over the years.

Yeah and and the Mary Alice already talked about the letter that we're asking you to view the properties as assets, residences, historic resources, green space, sources of revenue for the city somebody here said one night to me in private that all the houses rot in our rainforest so these houses are going to rot.

So I asked my friend a local architect and he said no that's not true.

If it has a roof it's not going to rot he also said any house that's lived in can be repaired.

And these houses are very strong when I've been poking around my house it looks decrepit and it looks more decrepit than this photo now.

Everything's braced at the corners you can't tear it apart.

And they're also built with full dimension timber dimensional timber.

Today they will shave down the two by four and the two by six to smaller units but they use the whole piece of wood then and it's old growth forest so my house isn't rotting although you might think it it would so they're very strong and the houses didn't need to be shoveled during the our blizzard and that the roofs didn't collapse they weren't shoveled.

They're very very strong so um I'm asking you okay please let the residents buy back the houses or rent them to own thank you God bless thank you any questions for Ms.

Bridges saying none thank you for your testimony and the pictures next we have Susan Clark please state your name and area town you live in for the record and you have two minutes.

My name is Susan Clark I live in the federal building area in the shadow of the federal building area which means it goes behind the federal building or goes behind the mountains.4 acres of quote steep and rugged topography requiring innovative engineering solutions which is why the city hasn't officially searched for or found a developer to the state what you haven't heard the public hasn't heard that merely the consultant fees of the first 40 feet to the 40 feet in Oregon have already exceeded half a million 6000 to be exact plus the initial first 40 contract was in July of 2023 and it included visioning and scenarios and design concepts and civil and engineering concepts as well as a section 106 compliance and two public meetings to build community consensus of which there has been none because the promise option to leave the hill as is was never intended to be a part of that package.

The latest amendment to the contract was only written in mid-November this last mid-November, giving yet another six months deadline through June 2026 for a walk whopping eight eighty-four thousand additional money.

Other money that it people haven't really been aware of is that there was a sales tax um put in on September 2022 that we can only vote on for every five years, and that's continuing ongoing, and it was for two million dollars.

Thank you.

Any questions for Ms.

Clark?

Seeing none, thank you for your testimony tonight.

Next we have Steve Banke.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

I'm Steve Benke, living Thane.

I'm representing the nonprofit renewable Juno this evening.

I apologize in advance for bringing another crisis to your already overladen crisis plate.

Um but I want to mention that uh uh, and I know you're already hearing from some of your constituents about the fact that electric vehicles are getting more and more difficult to get in and out of Juno.

And uh so I'd like to invite you to uh attend our or view our Southeast EV shipping solutions panel, which is Wednesday at uh from 6 to 8 p.m.

at K2.

It's uh co-sponsored panelists and co-sponsors include Alaska Marine Lines, Alaska Highway, Marine, Alaska Marine Highways, uh Portable Auto, IBW, the Alaska Access Committee, the Alaska Energy Authority, and District 1 Representative Jeremy Bynum.

It's a rare opportunity here from directly from people working on this issue from every angle.

EVs are important tools for reducing energy costs, improving air quality and uh reducing climate impacts, one of your 15-year-old goals, and building a more resilient local economy.

Um for many households, EVs significantly reduce transportation costs often by up to two-thirds compared to gas vehicles, and ownership in Juneau is approaching one in 10 households.

Um, but uh today we're having more and more trouble getting EVs in and out.

Uh barge lines have stopped hauling them since last fall.

The uh ferry system will only take two per sailing, and that wait list is now months out for many of the many of the so um so we're pulling together this group of people to talk about possible solutions.

Um, there are solutions because 16 million EVs were shipped this last year around the world.

So somebody's doing it right and uh continue to do it.

Um we would urge you, the CBJ assembly to join in speaking up and searching for solutions and uh want to let you know about the the panel.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Um, Ms.

Hughes Candies and then Mr.

Brooks.

Thanks, Madam Mayor.

Thank you for being here and uh working on the issue.

I just try to get clarity on when that panel, as you said, Wednesday evening.

Wednesday evening, six to eight, A2 studios.

A two studios, thank you.

Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor, and thank you for being here.

Uh and just for clarification, the the issue with bringing in the EV vehicles currently is due to the with the MI on batteries, or is there more to it?

That's the main issue, fire safety.

Thank you.

Any further questions?

Uh I have a quick question.

Have you considered uh open-air containers rather than closed containers?

They would be on top if they are open.

That's one of the kinds of things that uh that will be raising with them.

But AML has said that they're looking for solutions.

They've they promised that they're looking for solutions, but they probably need encouragement to do that because it's not clear kind of when they might do that.

All right, thank you for that, and uh thank you for letting us know about Wednesday.

Oops, I'm sorry, Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

Um, do you know if any any other uh lines have stepped forward um who might have solutions on on how to ship them safely?

Well right now, a number of the Alaska shippers have stopped shipping them, but uh some of the barge lines are still shipping to Hawaii, so there are similar barge lines that are still operating.

We're talking to a potential news shipper in so who's interested in bringing service to Southeast Alaska, providing some competition to our existing monopoly barge line.

Um they have said they're interested in talking about electric vehicles.

All right, thank you for your testimony.

Uh next we have Shannon Green.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Good evening, Assembly members.

I'm Shannon Green.

I'm a Valley resident.

I'm addressing the CBJ Telephone Hill FAQs that were developed to counter significant public outcry against this development.

Specifically the disingenuous nature of this topic.

Where was there a public vote on redevelopment of this land?

The FAQs tell us yes.

Two million in funding for the redevelopment of Telephone Hill was included in the 1% tax proposition approved by the voters in the 2022 election.

But the full story on Prop three was the Telephone Hill initiative was bundled, or perhaps more accurately buried with 18 other projects in 10 different categories, known as the 1% list.

Leading that ambitious list were millions for critical information technology upgrades, child care support, affordable housing initiatives, deferred school building maintenance, to name a few.

Excuse me, the ninth category of Prop three actually read $2 million.

I quote, $2 million will fund the beginning stages of Telephone Hill redevelopment, unquote.

And quote, funds will be used to begin the public process of formulating a redevelopment plan to be adopted by CBJ.

That is what we voted for.

In no way should this be interpreted as carte blanche authority, nor a blank check from the taxpaying citizens to spend additional tens of millions of our tax dollars to develop housing complexes.

As a voter, I could have easily interpreted development to also include restoring the current historic buildings.

Another red flag at the recent assembly retreat when reviewing excuse me.

I would say please prove that you have our support to destroy these public assets and call for a vote of the public.

Please reconsider this venture in the citizen's best interest and discontinue the push to drain our tax dollars when so many other basic municipal needs exist.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions for Ms.

Green?

Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Thank you for the testimony.

Do you feel like the community outreach that was conducted by the first 40 feet was open-minded beyond the uh proposed suggestions out of the A through A through D options?

Um thank you for the question.

I don't know that I can speak to that other than as your all-day working busy single mom with three kids in school trying to, you know, do work a federal job.

My viewpoint was at a federal level, not as much local, and I feel like that's my responsibility to know.

But I would say I didn't hear about that or the survey.

And so I've done my own little personal test just because I believe in you know what this group is doing.

Um, that um everyone I ask, and I had it in my testimony, but didn't have enough time is that I would say less than you know, 99% of the people that I ask, hey, do you know about Telephone Hill?

Because I didn't, and that's why I came to a meeting.

They don't know about it in general, and I ask almost everybody I bump into, and um they don't know about it.

They don't, they're like, what is that button about?

And they don't have any idea that they voted for anything.

And that's just a general little poll I'm doing.

And I think that's concerning because we do have a lot of really big issues to tackle in this town, and I just believe that we all have a responsibility to be involved in civics and what we vote for.

Any further questions?

Seeing none, thank you for your testimony.

Uh next we have Bruce Simonson.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Hi, my name is Bruce Simonson.

I've lived in downtown Juno since 1988.

Thank you for the opportunity to address the assembly tonight.

First, I want to thank you and commend you for the budget survey you're currently conducting.

It's important that the public has a way to provide input on budget priorities to the assembly.

I really appreciate this.

I thank you for it, but I do have a simple suggestion and a request regarding the survey.

Uh about the survey.

I think the contractor conducting the survey is doing a great job.

But one suggestion I have is please direct staff to post a PDF of the questions that are on the survey on the CBJ's website so that citizens can review the questions before responding to the survey.

I find that very helpful.

And I know there's a PDF available because I asked for one and was sent to me.

Then my second request is please extend the time for public for the public to respond to the survey.

I'm not sure what the actual deadline, but I hear it might be soon.

I just recently heard about this about the survey, and I've been actively promoting it and asking people to respond to it.

Please expend, extend the response time until perhaps the next assembly meeting, or at least until the city's public workshops about the budget have been completed on March 3rd.

So thank you.

Please post a PDF of the questions on the CBJ website and extend the deadline for responses until at least March 3rd.

All right, any questions?

Ms.

Jews Canis.

Thanks, Madam Mayor.

Uh thanks for being here tonight in the testimony suggestions.

My question is about the first piece of it.

And if you could elaborate a little bit more, because to have the questions posted ahead of time, is that primarily.

Could you expand just a little bit on that?

It's so people can get into it and then go take it or not.

Yeah, just oftentimes when you take surveys, you don't really know what the questions are.

They just keep coming at you.

And what I suggest is just put a PDF of these are the questions you can review them before you start to fill out the online survey.

And I find it really helpful to do that.

It's it's really great, for example, knowing that there's some open-ended boxes where you can put in your own suggestions.

It's not just yes or no or multiple choice questions.

It's good to know that in advance so that you know that if you want to elaborate uh on a particular thing.

So it's a simple PDF.

I think uh Phil sent one sent me a copy of it, and you could just post it on the website.

Read this first if you want to, and then take the surveys what you would do.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, thank you for your testimony.

All right, next we have Eunice James.

Hopefully, I said that right.

Please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Thank you, madam chair.

My name is Eunice James.

I live in the valley area, and I wanted to talk about housing in general.

And um that there's a lack of sufficient housing.

I gone to a meeting and and heard about telephone hill as well.

Um there's the costs, the limited availability for our young people to stay or to even come back when they leave for to further their education, whether it's higher education or vocational training.

Um there's a lack of housing.

You look at rental units, there's a lack of rental units.

And that's for probably multiple reasons.

There's a lack of affordable rental units, there's a lack of long-term rental units.

When you look at the medical professionals coming into Juno, they're always looking for housing.

There's a need for medical professional, there's a need, a dire need for local.

I work for the tribe here in Juneau and I work with tribal citizens mainly.

Um they talk about things and situations where they're currently renting and they have they're worried about being evicted because their water doesn't work properly, they don't have adequate heat.

We went through a uh really cold cold spell.

When you don't have adequate heat, when you don't have when you you're caring for children and you're trying to get them to school and such, there's really a dire need for housing in Juno.

All right, thank you.

Any questions for Ms.

James.

See none.

Thank you for your testimony tonight.

You might want to stay a little longer because we're going to be doing some work on that later today.

Um anyway, with that, we will go to Carol Bookless.

I have to press the button.

Oh, there's all this green.

Um, Carol Bookless, I live in Douglas.

So I want to read something to you.

This is um from the C uh from the Juno um City and Bureau Juno website.

It's the community development um vision.

It's fostering excellence in development for this generation and the next.

And if you read the mission, it says the community development department facilitates sustainable and responsible development that respects and preserves the history and cultures of Juno.

So I want to ask how what we're doing at Telephone Hill fits that mission and that vision.

I see you're all looking at me, which is great, but can you see Minta's beautiful red shirt when you're looking at me?

You can't because your vision is focused this way.

And you're not seeing anything on either side.

People have come and given you good ideas where you can fulfill your mission of getting your 155 units, but you can keep the heritage value of this area.

I've given you the suggestion to put a high-rise at the at the high end of the site.

There's no there's no building limit there.

You can do what you want.

You could get your 155 units, and you can have a beautiful heritage uh tourist site there.

It's possible.

We're talking about housing.

How's this for an idea?

You have the mental health trust.

What do they do with their land?

They make a list and they tell you how to buy each person parcel.

Why can't we make a list of all the properties, hundreds of properties that CBJ owns and have a forum and say, listen, this is what you can do because that's what community development told me.

They said, Carol, if you want some land, just go up to lands, make a bid on any of the lots we own.

And you can have it.

Why don't people know that?

Well, look okay.

I'll stop there.

I'll any questions for Ms.

Bookless.

Say none, thank you for your testimony.

Okay, that's the last we have for our public participation on non-agenda items, although we'll have another one at the end of the meeting if for anybody else that wants to testify later.

Um with that, we will go to our consent agenda.

Are there any public requests for consent agenda changes other than ordinances for introduction?

Uh seeing none, is there any assembly requests for consent agenda changes?

Uh seeing none, we'll go to you, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move this the consent agenda as presented and ask for unanimous consent.

Uh it was amended, remember.

I move the consent agenda as a man amended by the manager and asked unanimous consent.

Any uh objection.

Seeing none, uh the consent agenda is approved.

And Ms.

Atkison, you're just gonna have to raise your hand or something because I don't see you on the screen.

Gotcha, I will.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

With that, we'll go to um uh item one, madam clerk.

Madam Mayor, may we take a break?

Uh certainly.

Uh let's take five five minutes.

We'll bring the assembly back to order.

Uh moving on to public hearing item one, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordinant, sorry, ordinance two zero two five-42.

An ordinance amending the comprehensive plan by adopting the downtown Douglas slash West Juneau area plan.

Well, thank you, Madam Clerk.

Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This ordinance adopts the downtown Douglas West June Area Plan.

The development of the plan started with the steering committee, uh a process, move through time.

You can see all the times that the assembly has uh touched this.

The last time was at your January 26th committee, the whole meeting uh after introduction, where you discussed the changes to the plan that the planning commission uh made.

Uh I recommend you take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Thank you, Madam Manager.

Um we'll we have one person signed up for this, so if we could bring Ms.

Bookless back.

Please state your name and area of town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Carol Bookless, I live in Douglas, and I've spoken to you before, I've emailed you before.

Um I was on the um South Douglas steering committee.

And I think um I'll take Minta's advice and say that I would like you to adopt this without any of the um planning committee's changes.

That would be the simplest way to do it.

No thinking because the what the planning committee has suggested goes against what we worked for five years on.

And one of the things I talked about earlier was um that we should have a forum where we can just say these are all the properties that the city has, and this is how you can buy them.

Did you know that there are almost half a dozen properties on Fifth Street that the city owns that people can just go buy if they want to build there?

So why the heck are we going to 6th Street, which literally your own documents say is not buildable because of the steepness of the site and the water coming off the hillside.

I've sent you the links to the documents.

These are your studies.

Why are we defying your studies and saying, let's build there anyway?

It just does not make sense.

So yeah, I think like I said, this simplest would be, yeah, there's some things, you know, that I think could be tweaked on that plan.

But you know what?

We worked for a long time on it, and it's a good plan.

I would say accept it without any of the changes.

Thank you for your testimony.

Questions.

Thank you for your testimony tonight.

And the ch changes are on page 28 for those of you looking for it.

Um with that, I we have nobody else signed up for public testimony.

We'll bring it back to the assembly.

Um, Ms.

Hughes Canada.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move that the assembly adopt ordinance twenty twenty-five-4-two.

And ask for a unanimous consent.

Any objections?

Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

Just um objection for the purposes uh of a question.

I believe I know the answer to this, but I just want to make sure.

So approving this ordinance as is uh basically accepts the planning commission's recommendations.

We would need to make an amendment to remove those recommendations if we if that was the desire of the body.

Madam City Manager is looking at me.

You're correct.

Thank you.

I'll remove it.

Okay, perfect.

All right.

Well, I'll object to this plan and I'll speak briefly to my objection, which I said the same thing at the committee of the whole.

Um I applaud everybody for working on this plan.

This was a well developed plan and everything, but our life has changed, and many of these plans, um, many of this plan calls for us to uh expend money on all kinds of things.

So I don't think it's uh appropriate to adopt this plan as an ordinance um when we know that we're not going to achieve 90% of what this is going to do.

So I just don't think that's a right thing to do.

So go ahead.

Ms.

Wall and then Ms.

Husanne.

Sorry, I can't speak tonight.

Thank you, Mayor Weldon.

Um, just wanted to speak in support of this ordinance.

Um, you know, the mayor is is correct that um there's lots in here that um we you know as a community or as a as a city and a community can't afford to build in this current moment.

But you know, in my five years on the assembly, I've seen us start in COVID, where we were in a financial emergency come into the Biden administration where there was a lot of funds for things that we didn't know there'd be funds for, and then you know, in a new administration, completely different priorities, and now after an election, a very different situation.

So I just bring that up to say these plans exist because they're they're a vision um and they provide opportunities for for the future.

I will also say that a lot of work went into this, and um, although you know, I would I think the planning commission um's comments are good.

I will in in this case, I I do understand Miss Bookless's um kind of perspective that when you put a ton of work into this, it can be um you know discouraging to see um you know things not adopted or changed.

So I want to um make sure we honor the the work of both the planning commission and the the steering committee that did this work.

Ms.

Hughes Candy's thank you, Madam Mayor.

I'll speak briefly in support of adopting this since we are now at the more public of our meetings.

I think tonight is a really interesting meeting because we're gonna dig into kind of planning, land planning, how you do it.

The probably we'll hear interesting arguments when we talk about the rezones.

There's so many different ways to look at this.

We will have we have real world concerns where we can say, you know, here's a very technical study and document, and you know, I fully understand the concerns Ms.

Bookless just brought up in her public testimony, where you're gonna be talking about something really just coming down to science and fact, where you're talking about slopes and drainage and what does it take to change the land where you want to build?

And then we have other things in this plan that are aspirational in nature, and I think Ms.

Walls just touched on those.

I have mixed feelings because I I feel like these things do can go, can we can adopt these things and then we can go either way with them, depending on the the project at hand, we may say, I know that's what the comprehensive plan says, but we're gonna do this other thing because we think that's more important.

I know that's what the area plan says, but we're gonna do this thing, and it's very hard to reconcile that with asking a community to come together and say, what do you want aspirationally and truly this area of town to look like in the future?

What are we working towards, you know, when we when funds are available and what are we putting our time and our energy towards?

So all of that to say that after this many years on the assembly, I find these to be uh such a dichotomy of all the things are true at once, and they're also not true at once.

These I go back and forth between saying planning is a scam, long-range planning is a scam.

You guys have heard me joke that before, but it's also necessary, and uh it's just a function of of how we move the city forward.

So a little bit longer than I meant to, but all of that to say I recognize this is not perfect.

I appreciate all the work that went into it from the community.

I appreciate the work that the planning commission did to um make this align as best it can with our current goals and our current needs as a community area wide, and so I feel comfortable adopting it.

Uh thank you.

So we have a motion and objection, Madam Clerk.

Will you call roll?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

For ordinance 2025-42, an ordinance amending the comprehensive plan by adopting the downtown Douglas slash West June area plan.

Ms.

Hughes Scandis.

Yes.

Ms.

Wool.

Yes.

Mr.

Kelly.

Yes.

Mr.

Steininger.

Yes.

Ms.

Adkisson.

Yes.

Ms.

Hall.

Yes.

Mr.

Brooks.

No.

Deputy Mayor Smith.

Yes.

Mayor Weldon.

No.

Motion carries with seven yes and two nays.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Item number two.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordinance 2026-04, an ordinance amending the rebate for qualifying senior citizens code.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This is a housekeeping ordinance after passage of the exemption on food and utilities.

Those were two benefits that qualifying senior citizens were eligible to get.

So we'll bring it to the assembly, Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move the assembly approved ordinance 2026 04 and I ask for unanimous consent.

Any objection?

See none of that ordinance passes.

So our next ordinances uh we'll treat a little differently because we're in our quasi-judicial role.

So what I will do is we will go to the city clerk to read the title.

We'll go to the city manager and then we'll go to the city attorney.

So at that time, if you have questions on the process, ask the city attorney, and then uh we'll uh deal with testimony a little bit differently, too, if you guys so approve.

Um, with that, we'll go to Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordinance 2026-05, an ordinance amending the official zoning map of the city of borough of Juneau to change the zoning of HDK LT 2A and SSG IV TRB located at 5200 and 5,220 commercial boulevard from industrial to light commercial.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This ordinance, if passed, would approve a rezone of those two properties in uh kind of across from the Home Depot area from industrial to light commercial.

The stated purpose of this is for housing.

The planning commission uh denied this um rezone request, which is why it was it's before you based on a staff recommendation that the uh rezone is not consistent with the comprehensive plan.

It's a goal of the assembly to uh preserve industrial zones, and that housing is a incompatible uh use for um an industrial zone that that will be likely develop into uh a transfer site or some near, not it's not adjacent, but it's kind of in the path of those purposes.

So that is the reasoning that the planning commission gave uh for that.

Um I'm sure you'll hear many compelling reasons uh from the applicant today.

Uh and I would like to hand it over to uh attorney Wright to explain the process.

Thank you, madam manager, madam attorney.

Thank you.

So um the process for a protest is interesting and something that I think many of you have not seen before.

It is a quasi-judicial um process.

It is not an appeal, it's its own kind of animal within land use code.

Uh what will come, what happens is the planning commission makes the decision, and then the applicant, if the applicant decides to move forward and ask you to review it, and they have 20 days, they don't turn in an appeal, there's no hearing back and forth.

There's no hearing back and forth.

Really, what happens is an ordinance is drafted, which would be what they're requesting.

And then they come before you for public hearing.

There's no argument, there's no representation by either side.

It is purely a public hearing that will happen this evening.

They then you will have in front of you their protest, their protest, um, the notice of decision from the planning commission and the proposed ordinance.

And that is it.

Um I did put in a memo.

So to just ensure that you understand the decisions that you're making tonight, you there's three potential decisions.

You approve the ordinance as it has been introduced.

That will update the maps of the comprehensive plan.

You approve the ordinance um with modifications, and we can we can talk a little bit about that.

Most of those modifications, um, if there were any, would be uh public safety, welfare type uh modifications.

And then the third is you approve the planning commission's recommendation denying the rezone.

So three types of approval there, and that's what you're being asked to do tonight.

And I'm happy to take questions now or as you go through the process.

Questions on the process, Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um just making, I believe this would be case be the case, but just making sure we have two different separate um ordinances with different issues, but the process is exactly the same in that the director denied or recommended denial planning commission denied, they were protested, and now they're in front of us.

That's correct.

Both of them are the exact same process, two different projects.

And just to be completely clear, we'll deal with each one separately.

Okay.

Mr.

Burks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And they're only being uh contested or denied for rezon due to guidelines set forth in the comprehensive plan.

So the the recommendation is based on the comprehensive plan, the goal of preserving industrial space and uh the uh kind of incompatible uses of an industrial zone.

Uh so not just I would say that the the staff recommendation was based primarily on the comprehensive plan, but also on those other two variables.

Ms.

Wall.

Um more question on process here.

Um thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh you know the comprehensive plan is aspirational.

You know, when I look at these, you know, I'll say it in a bit, like there's some gray area, you know, around whether this, you know, it this fits or doesn't.

Um, from a legal perspective, do we take a risk, you know, when we're considering whether this matches our plans or not, you know, if we are to be like, well, we've got new policies, you know, we're things have changed.

Um, where does that does that play into this decision?

I know there's legal risk in everything we do, but maybe you could characterize that.

Madam Atorney.

Thank you for the question.

I won't give you an it depends answer because I know that's why not what you want.

Um, but from a legal perspective, I would say that your risk is low.

Um, comprehensive plan and area wide plans and all of these plans are in general policy decisions.

The place that you get into legal um kind of warm water, hot water, probably warm water, is when you're inconsistent.

We always want to be consistent.

We always want to apply similar standards.

We want to match what we're doing.

But in general, these are policy calls for you to make after listening to the presentation that's built into the code to allow you to do this.

Um, Ms.

Hughes Can these and then Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

When we talk about these being different quasi-judicial, different from an appeal.

When we're doing an appeal, we have very this is what you're making the decision on.

Your only decision you can make is this or that.

The planning commission, when they make some decisions, they have to tie it, point it back to this.

We made this decision because, and we're pointing back at this, or we denied that, and this is where we draw that kind of where we made that decision making.

Here we have gone back and looked at what was in the planning commission record, and I'll wait and hear more about how we'll do testimony tonight.

That process that's built in for it to be a policy call at this point from the assembly.

What are the assembly's obligations?

If any to point back to from what we're making our decision.

Thank you.

Um different from, like you said, different from an appeal or that that um judicial quasi judicial decision making where we would give you um draft facts, findings of fact, um, draft points to um connect to in the comprehensive plan itself.

That's why this one is a little bit different.

The protest code does not require you to make specific findings of fact.

That being said, any decision that you make can be appealed to a superior court.

Uh, and so I would always recommend you explain why you're making a decision and what your thought process is for that decision.

But this is not a situation where we're gonna write up findings of fact for you and have those specific laid out issues.

That's great.

Thank you.

Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, Madam Attorney, you maybe touched on it a little bit in that you know, consistency is important.

I guess it's not necessarily precedent setting if we rezone a piece from you know one zoning district to another, it's just is there consistency?

Because others may then say, oh, they did this here.

Now I want to do that in this zone that isn't you know allowed, therefore seems like we should go forward and try to request rezones there as well.

So through the chair.

So I I would encourage you to ask questions of the experts, which is CD CDD and the department and the manager's office, but what we are being careful of with rezones is something called um spot zoning.

So we don't want you never want to just pick things and say, Yes, we want to do that here.

Again, the world of the law lives in a place where we don't like things that are arbitrary or capricious, right?

We need to understand why we're doing it, we need to connect it to the policy decisions that you're making.

We need to be as consistent as possible within there.

So I would encourage you to ask questions of CDD on that one.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, and then just to confirm when we're rezoning, we have no ability to condition the proposed development that would occur potentially that is proposed to occur under the new zoning district based on our rezone.

So if someone was like, we want to do housing here and we change it to light commercial.

There's nothing from them just building a hotel or any of the other different uses that would be allowed under light commercial.

Right.

So the conditions, the modifications that you can make are really they're not going to be um you can only build low-income housing, or you can only do this, or you can only do that.

They're going to be focused on um public safety, welfare, health, and safety issues.

Um you want to ensure um that there are crosswalks.

Do you want to ensure that there are traffic lights?

Do you want to ensure that the sidewalks are big enough for what is being proposed?

There they're much more public safety, health and welfare based versus um, you know, this type of awning needs to be put on the house type thing.

And even less so than like the type of awning, it's we can't even say, oh, you might you you have to build housing there?

You could build anything that is allowed within the zoning district.

Thank you.

That's right.

You're just changing the voting.

Yep.

Everybody have any more questions, Ms.

Adkisson.

Are you good?

Oh, sorry, Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Does uh light commercial exclude you from just building residential housing?

I'm looking to help.

You uh you can build housing in light commercial, uh, the density is slightly more than D18, which I believe is what it's currently zoned.

Go ahead, Ms.

Sorry.

I'm speaking to the second piece.

Yeah.

Uh Mr.

Brooks, do you have another one?

It was more so like does it prevent you from like building a few residential houses instead of uh something that has over D18 capacity if it was like commercial.

Go ahead and I'd love to invite the CDD director up here who actually knows what she's talking about versus me uh answering these.

Madam Mayor, just a not a point of verb, but just so I understand.

Are we can you repeat again how we're going through this?

We should be asking questions on process, probably.

So we strayed from process and going into the meat of the matter.

I I think you may be straying from process.

Okay, Ms.

Lahard, we'll have you quickly answer that question and then we'll kick you out of there.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And since it applies to both, maybe consider it part of the process then.

So uh, or could the idea light commercial um would allow both housing um and other uses.

And so you could have any combination, you could put one single family home, you could put many, you could put none.

It would allow whatever um the applicant wants to put there that would be allowed under light commercial.

All right.

So no more questions on that.

We'll stick with process.

And with that, we're gonna go to you, Mr.

Smith, because he has a motion.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I moved to suspend the rules to the allow the applicants a total of 10 minutes of public testimony.

As this is a quite quasi-judicial process, I'm not asking to suspend the rules to allow questions and questions and answered by the assembly.

It simply allows the applicants additional time to explain that why they are requesting the rezone.

I move and ask for unanimous consent.

Any questions on that?

So basically, if under public hearing, they only get two minutes.

So he's asking us to give them a 10-minute window.

Any objection, Ms.

Candy's?

Objecting just for clarity, we will not be doing question and answer with the applicant.

Is that correct?

I'm looking to the attorney, but that is correct at this time.

The motion was not to include QA.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

No objection.

Uh Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

I guess this question would only be relevant if there are other people signed up to testify.

But if a non-applicant were to sign up to testify, would we be asking them questions?

Or is this rule about not asking questions just apply to the applicants?

Well, since we have no other public testimony, except for the people that are the applicants, uh no.

Ms.

Wall.

Um, thank you.

Just curious why we wouldn't want why to the maker of the motion, why no questions from the for the applicant.

Thank you, Ms.

Wall.

When we asked for a motion, this was the one presented to me by the city attorney.

Um I I am curious though, does asking questions back and forth, does that create any issues with it in it with their quasi-judicial rule?

Um, thank you.

It does not, you have to it if you want to suspend the time frame for the applicants and make it 10 minutes, you do a motion to suspend the rules.

If you want to allow back and forth QA more than you would in public testimony, right?

So normally you just are able to ask a clarifying question.

It's very short.

If you want to have that engagement, you just suspend the rules on both things, and then you can have that engagement.

I don't think it puts you at a legal risk to do that.

Ms.

Wall.

For clarifying question again, I'm fine with just the regular way that we ask the public testimony questions.

I that would still be allowed if we are to move to this motion as we can ask them as many questions as we want at the end of their testimony.

Madam Attorney.

Thank you.

I believe the motion was simply to um to give 10 minutes.

It doesn't change the underlying uh rules of public participation.

Do you want to state your motion again just so we're all clear?

Maybe I'll just move to suspend the rules to allow the applicants a total of 10 minutes of public testimony.

And then the other rules of public testimony will continue, such as being able to ask clarifying questions.

Okay, we have a motion on the floor.

Any objection?

See none?

Ms.

Adison see none from you.

Uh that is so approved.

So we will bring up uh we have Mr.

Larson, Mr.

Donart, and Ms.

Larson.

And we only have a couple mics, so you can either take turns or all sit together and we'll let you know when your time starts.

We're gonna take turns.

My name is Jeff Larson.

I didn't say start yet.

I said we'll let you know when your time starts.

I'm making sure the uh different for us, so I'm making sure the clerk is ready with our 10 minutes.

Okay, go ahead, Mr.

Larson.

Please state your name in area town you live in for the record in total of 10 minutes.

My name is Jeff Larson.

I live on uh Thane Road.

Um, and I appreciate the the time and the consideration and the uh logistical hurdles we all have to face in making sure we uh adhere to the law.

Um I have uh attached a map for you all in your packet at uh at the beginning beginning of the meeting.

Um basically I I want to just kind of identify um certain elements.

The map itself is is from the zoning um um matrix of the Lemon Creek area.

I've filled in some of my notations.

Um and so just to give you a kind of an orientation, if you look on the right hand side of the map, uh you'll see uh Costco and Home Depot put it out with the two big red dots, and then right below is the uh HDK lot two and the SSG for subdivision uh track B.

So basically uh that little uh outlined area is the the combined uh two parcels.

Um what we've done is uh took took the uh the area here and it shows um the surrounding properties.

If you look up in the upper upper left-hand corner, you'll see um a little key that shows that the uh industrial area is gray.

Uh the uh rural reserve is green, and rural reserve is CBJ owned property, and it could have zoning changes coming down the pike based upon needs.

Um you also have GC, which is general commercial, and you have the various uh D ratings, and that's the density of uh of uh residential housing.

So a D5 is five houses per acre, uh, a D18 is uh 18 per acre uh of residential units.

Um so um basically the Lemon Creek Flats is that central area of the uh industrially zoned area.

Um if you look at the development of this area, um there's really only a few that really require industrial use, um, and that's on the northern borders, and that's demarked by black dots.

Um the little red dots that I've inserted are really those occupants of those lots that could be there if it was zoned general commercial.

So if you look at the overall um uh map, you'll see that really a lot of that use is already in that commercial space.

Um the other thing to note is the entire industrial area is surrounded by general commercial, um rural uh housing or rural uh reserve.

And if you look at the location of that um lot, those lots across from Home Depot and Costco, you'll notice that it's also on the periphery.

So if you think about the periphery use around that indust industrial industrial area, we're pretty much adhering to that if we do commercially zone that property.

We're not all of a sudden putting something smacked up in the middle.

It is on the periphery, much like the existing uh property use.

Um the one thing that that I've done is is is looked at the zoning of light commercial and general commercial.

And this is a question and and a request that we we would have for you is to actually consider this to be maybe not just light commercial, maybe it should be zoned general commercial.

And why do I say that?

Uh, it does change the fact that in general commercial you can use you can use the property both for light manufacturing and medium manufacturing, and light commercial doesn't allow that.

The other attribute is there's some advantages as far as uh uh the density of housing or multifamily use.

Um I think that that that's a side side comment.

Uh, we would love to see it be generally general uh so you know you have six minutes left.

Okay.

Um thank you.

Um the the thing that I would I would I would say probably is is yes, if there's a change in the industrial use of the property, uh, does it change how this property will be developed?

You think about the fact that yes, industrial can allow um explosive storage, ammunition storage.

It can also allow a rock crusher.

I would ask, does it make sense to put that type of thing across from Home Depot and Costco?

Is it really kind of the trajectory of our operation to sit there and think about maybe that use is a little bit more aligned with the commercial use?

Um I don't know.

I was I would say um there are other attributes.

There was a Lemon Creek area plan that was uh discussed and and approved by the assembly in uh 2017, and they even identified the fact that there was some industrial land that should be changed to general commercial.

Um I don't think it's out of the line of maybe the trajectory of the thought process with the community development.

Turn it over to thank you.

How much time do they have left?

Madam Clerk, how much time do they have left?

There you go.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Thanks for having the opportunity to address this assembly meeting.

Uh my name is Charles Dunart, um, back loop road.

I'm the applicant for the rezoning from industrial.

Uh, to begin with, let's look at any number of currently existing businesses within the Lemon Flats industrial zoned area that you're seeing on the map between Anka Street and Jenkin Drive.

Did they all basically take advantage of industrial zoning to build their operations there?

Someone might say, wait a minute, virtually none of those businesses save three specifically needed industrial zoning for their operation.

Those parcels could have been zoned some some uh something different, such as general commercial for the specific use case of their parcel.

Each year, the Juneau Assembly publishes its list of annual goals, at least from 2023 through 2025.

The first goal listed on the assembly's uh goals addresses housing with the goal to quote assure adequate and affordable housing for all CBJ residents.

The assembly wants to reduce barriers to housing development and advance the goals of the housing action plan from 2016.

Juno's housing action plan recommends the creation of newly constructed units for young families, workers, and seniors.

Our proposed development is for 114 to 120 units of studio and one bedroom apartments.

This development supports those housing goals stated by the JUNU Assembly.

And what you don't have in your in your packet is the the uh rendering, the architect renderings of what this proposal looks like, um, the site plan and all of that sort of thing, which would be very helpful, and it might address Mr.

Smith's concern about whether somebody would just go in and just put like residential housing versus the more high density housing.

The Lemon Creek area plan adopted in 2018 states that the borough suffers from a shortage of housing supply.

The June of Economic Development Plan from 2015 was a 10-year economic development plan stating in Juneau, housing is regarded as a constraint on economic growth.

In the Lemon Creek area plan, it states quote the Lemon Creek area is unique in that it provides many affordable and special needs housing opportunities.

The focus moving forward should be on workforce housing.

Juno's 2013 comprehensive plan section on housing recommends policies that encourage adequate housing for all Juneau residents.

Two minutes left.

I have recently held held conversations with the U.S.

Coast Guard regarding our proposed development and the possible suitability of the development by uh for the Coast Guard's planned need to acquire satisfactory housing in Juneau to fulfill the needs of the guard as stated in their uh request for information.

I will be providing additional information on the configuration options of our project to the Coast Guard with specific reference to the their request for additional details.

That's really all I have to say, and we could certainly entertain any questions.

You have a minute and a half.

That's great.

Marcy Larson, thank you very much for letting us speak.

I was designated sweeper because we didn't know how much time we get.

So if we miss something, I could add it in.

Um I just wanted to say um I've been working in that area for 40 years.

I've watched that area grow and develop.

It started out industrial.

It did.

It didn't develop that way at all.

And if you look at that map, you can just see that.

And all we're asking is for this parcel or these pieces to fit in with the neighborhood.

Just do more of what we're doing right there.

It seems like it's working to develop.

We've had that properties for sale now for 10 years.

We've never had someone come to us and want to do anything industrial with it.

We have had a lot of people come to us and say, gosh, this is a great property for putting housing on.

It's flat, it's accessible, it has roads, has a lot of things you need, but we can't do it.

It's industrial.

Can't build housing on industrial.

All we're asking is let this property fit into the neighborhood.

Thank you.

20 seconds left.

You guys done.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So okay, assembly clarifying questions only.

Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

Um, question is that the mayor and myself have uh offered potential amendments to this rezoning.

Have you had the chance to review them?

And would you consider them those are not that is not a clarifying question?

Okay.

That's a question to them.

Yeah, look at what they said and any clarifying questions to understand.

Unless we want to suspend the rules and change our what we're doing here.

Ms.

Wall's look giving me funny look.

So I guess I have never heard that used in our public testimony.

We kind of ask whatever questions we want of our people maybe not.

I've been wrong about that the whole time, but I've certainly asked people what they think of amendments.

Ms.

Wall, I often ask, are there any clarified questions?

Um I'm looking at the attorney, Madam Attorney.

Do we need to suspend our rules again?

Or can we ask questions?

Sorry.

They're not clarifying questions based on um what the applicants have presented, then we do have to suspend the rules.

Her your own rules of procedure.

Uh Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, madam mayor.

I move that we suspend the rules to ask whatever questions we'd like.

Any uh objections.

Seeing none.

Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

I'll start from the beginning with my question.

I was starting to ask if you had the chance to review the amendments that are being proposed by myself and the mayor.

And if either of these amendments would be a burden to the developments that you are considering in that area.

Who wants to tackle that one, Mr.

Larson?

We we have okay.

We have looked at them.

Um I'd say one thing that would clarify this is also this is not a carte blanche.

We would still have to go before um the planning commission.

We would still have to comply with a a larger project.

So there'd be plenty of opportunity for additional requirements to be uh added.

Um these these are totally legitimate and um for the benefit of the community, and I think that's the highest and best use of the property is what we're we're we're we're aspiring to.

And these are okay.

You're just answering the question, Mr.

Larson.

Don't go off the script.

Uh Mr.

Smith and then Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you.

I had a clarifying question.

Um Mr.

Larson, you mentioned the light commercial versus general commercial as I was reading through this and thinking about the area, looking at the map, seeing in this area no light commercial at all.

I guess a question, why did you want why did you not go for general commercial and why did you go for light commercial instead?

Uh it's a simple reason.

Probably four years ago, um, I had a pre-amp meeting with CDD about rezoning these properties, these two properties from industrial to general commercial.

And at that time, it went, I mean, there was it was a total non-starter.

There was no there was no interest in in pursuing it even, and I was encouraged to just drop it right there.

And so after uh a couple of years went by and we got to talking, Jeff and I about perhaps if we go with late commercial planning has more uh authority and power over what you build in late commercial and you know, veto power, that sort of thing.

And it we thought, well, that might make some sense.

But upon further investigation, um, and Jeff as Jeff has brought up, there is no LC here, it's only GC.

But I'll just mention one thing about the uh my conversation with the Coast Guard.

I didn't get any indication from them other than the fact that they thought it was interesting and it could be suitable.

They're interested in more density.

And so GC gives you 40 units per acre versus uh LC, which is 30.

And so that is one of the main reasons of thinking that it might if we're going to be able to get it rezoned to a commercial, it it would be more suitable to be general commercial.

I think that's probably why we landed on that.

Um sorry, you meant light commercial, correct?

You just said general commercial.

Yeah, I'm sorry, we did we we went light commercial originally, but in thinking about it as as I just went through that whole stuff, general commercial makes more sense.

I was also advised by the deputy city manager that if we were to sort of want to request the assembly to go general commercial, since our original application was too late for light commercial, that we would have to start all over again.

And so that's why we thought, well, let's just present it tonight, just as it is, if if if it needs to, if it could go as late commercial without us having to redo everything and go to general commercial, then that would be certainly uh you know an attractive outcome.

And then we could go back to the planning commission perhaps and try to see if we could go to general commercial from there.

All right.

Um I have Mr.

Brooks and then Ms.

Candy's.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I was just uh curious if you know the how close to that industrial zone the apartment buildings behind the brewery between the the storage units and OTAM are uh on this map and what the capacity of those are just by chance okay, thank you.

So from Director Lahorn, uh she stated she doesn't think those apartments are assisted living, which is a different use.

Mr.

Brooks, so that would probably be a question more directed to when we bring Ms.

Lawhorn back up rather than the the applicants.

So on Jenkins Drive, there are apartments, and then on Anca, there are uh which you would probably term maybe different different than than just individual apartment living.

Um so there's quite a spectrum of of uh particular type of of uh occupied units in that area.

Yeah, we'll clarify that with director Lahorn there.

Okay, next I had Ms.

Hughes Candies.

Thank you, Madam Mayor, Mr.

Smith already asked my question about TC.

Any further questions for the applicants?

Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um Ms.

Larson, you mentioned that you people had reached out and asking about housing and and other uses for that property.

Did people reach out about other non-housing related ideas or things they wanted to develop there?

Ms.

Larson.

Yes, thank you.

Uh there were a few, but uh only think of one that I think of, but that was not also that also was not allowed with industrial.

Did it was not compatible with industrial?

That was basically a big food truck park.

Okay.

Anything further for the applicants?

Join once, going twice.

Thank you for your testimony tonight.

And I think we'll bring up Director Lahorn at this time to ask her some questions.

Okay, Mr.

Brooks, why don't you ask Ms.

Lahorn your question?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And thank you, Ms.

Lahorn.

Um in the uh ordinance language at the end, it says uh that it was initially shot down because not complimentary to noisy, noxious, odorous uses found in the industrial zone.

Is that okay for home hospice, but not residential arrangements?

Director Lahorn.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Um I'm not sure I would give an opinion on whether or not it's appropriate, but that's what the code allows.

And so that's um certain housing types are allowed in various zoning districts.

Um typically they fall under the definition of assisted living, which can be quite broad.

Uh and so, for instance, we have housing first, we also have um in other areas where um what the land use code calls transitional housing, which means those coming out of incarceration for that type.

Uh and so there are different um types of housing that you may see that may look like apartments, and but they are classified land use-wise as something different.

Uh, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you.

If they're on Jenkins, anyway, I know this is like you remember exactly what properties in each zoning type, but if it's on the south side of Junction Jenkins, that's in general commercial, which anyway.

That may be why they were allowed there as opposed to in the industrial, I get there on the edge between, but all right.

Any further questions for Ms.

Director Lawhorn?

Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, you know, there's there's policy, there's process here, all my favorite things.

Um can you talk to me a little bit about um kind of in your experience and opinion, like what you know, if we were to um rezone this as light commercial, what that would mean in terms of precedent setting.

Like what does that do in this neighborhood or elsewhere in the future in your experience?

Director Lahorn.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thank you for the question.

Um, I think first off, um, attorney Wright spoke to it earlier about the spot zoning, so I won't touch on that.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that under the code, uh, in order to rezone a property, it either has to be a minimum of two acres on its own, or you can be expanding an existing zoning district.

So if these two lots were rezoned a light commercial, then the next lot, even if it's under two acres, come in, could come in for light commercial, and then the next and the next and the next.

Um I think it would be difficult to approve some and deny others in this situation.

If it were to happen that way, I don't know what the differences would really be to approve or deny.

Uh and then um, if I may, I think the other situation we're facing here is that we're just a little too ahead of ourselves, I think.

So for a long time, the assembly's goal, one of the goals has been to preserve industrial land.

Uh and for a long time, that was way up there.

I feel like when I first came here about 10 years ago, housing less so.

And then it sort of balanced out, and now it feels like housing is tipping even more, right?

And so I I can see that and I get it, and I can appreciate why the Larsons and Mr.

Donar are interested in this.

Um, you go other places and you'll see an industrial zone, often with breweries and food trucks, and and you'll see all those heavy uses and they work well now when you have more housing moving in, because like us, other cities are trying to find housing and they're trying to fit it in.

When I go to those cities, though, I look at those areas, I enjoy them, I enjoy walking around them.

They usually have great food and some entertainment and this and that going on, and often dog care places and grooming and you name it, but it works because I guarantee you that they probably have standards, they have regulations, and they have enforcement.

And those are many things that we don't have yet with this ordinance, if it were to go forward tonight.

And so while I think that housing could work with industrial, if that is a direction the assembly wants to go moving forward, um, I don't necessarily think that they conflict with conflict with each other, but I do think they would conflict under today's code with the tools that we have and that it wouldn't be as successful if we took a little bit of time and tried to do it thoughtfully.

And I do think it would be worthwhile to bring other property owners into the conversation too, because uh if it happens here in industrial under the comp plan land use map of light industrial, there are other areas also in the borough that could come in looking to do the same things with the same argument that aren't only in Lemon Creek.

And so to go back to your precedent setting, I think that if another property owner say uh Sherwood Lane area, for instance, it's the only other really heavy industrial that comes to mind.

Uh, if they came in, if they presented a similar argument or a similar um development proposal, you know, I think the assembly would have to think what would you do if it was somewhere outside of Lemming Creek?

Um, another point, if I may just touch on it, uh, I know it was mentioned that these lots are at the back and there's and they're in the back, right?

And it sounds good in a way, except how do those people then, where are they driving?

Where are they walking?

We have a sidewalk on one side of the street.

Um, I think Mr.

Kelly had mentioned that during the snowstorm, sidewalks were covered.

Reasonably so.

We had five feet of snow in a very short period.

But but what do we do now if we have a large housing unit out there?

Now is the expectation that streets has sidewalks now to plow out there and to maintain so that people can safely move through the area and get to transit.

Because again, I come back to Lemon Creek is more affordable, it's flat, we have the amenities, we have transit, but we are missing those tools to make all of these uses work well and work successfully together, in my opinion.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thank you.

Any further questions?

Mr.

Smith?

Um, Mr.

Brooks, was that a hand up?

Good.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, Director Lahorn, did has there been an assessment or and you you might not be the right person for this, might be land manager, blight owners may, that is shown which of these two zoning districts or these zoning types, industrial and like commercial Juno is in more need of.

Uh through you, Madam Mayor.

I don't believe so.

The last time I recall this coming up for discussion between industrial and housing and the need to preserve the industrial, actually, sorry, might not have even just had housing involved at that time, but it was about preserving industrial land.

And I had brought that to lands maybe I want to say four years ago, but knowing time it could have been longer than that.

But even at that, so it might have been closer even to the pandemic, but at that time it was still a strong feeling that industrial land should be preserved.

Okay, Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I uh, you know, we're talking about precedences being set already.

And you know, for about seven or eight years, I lived on a residential lot on Del Rey that's zoned light commercial in a residential neighborhood with a bunch of other houses around and everything.

And uh the capability is always there for them to knock down the house and put up a 30-unit apartment building right in the middle of a residential neighborhood if they want to, because that's how it's zoned, and that's a precedence that's already taking place, but also with the comprehensive plan, uh then we just allocate uh you know hundreds of thousands for it to be updated because we're not historically meeting those guidelines and deadlines that were set forth in the past, Director Lahore.

Um, Madam Mayor, I may ask for a little clarifying there, Mr.

Brooks.

Uh, the reason the comp plan is being updated is just simply because it's past due, frankly.

Uh the last real update was prior to 2013, and so it's timely, less so I'm not sure if I caught your whole question or your intent there.

Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you.

Uh did we accomplish the goals that were put out in the original comprehensive plan back in 2012 or 2013?

Oh, I see.

Through you, Madam Mayor.

Uh, so the comprehensive plan here, I think the first was adopted even way back, I think early 80s, if not prior to that.

Um, and depending on the the two cities.

Um I wouldn't say that no, we haven't accomplished everything in it.

They are aspirational plans and they're guides.

Um that, yeah.

I think that answers your question.

Mr.

Steininger.

Thank you.

And I'm thinking about the preservation of industrial zoning.

Should uh should we do this rezone and housing units are built there, and then a adjacent property owner here come forward with the project to be permitted to do something that fits more into that noxious industrial use, how would the existence and proximity of that apartment building be considered in the conditional use permit that they make or whatever permit they may have to go after?

Through you, Madam Mayor, thank you.

I'm actually I'm not certain, and I may have a question for the attorney because and I may be making your question too complicated, Mr.

Steininger.

I I do think that once you bring housing into any commercial or industrial area, that there's going to likely be some conflicts.

Um I think that can be anticipated, which is why I come back to making sure we have standards and regulations and enforcement so that you protect both sides, the people living there, but also the the businesses and those businesses have been there for a long time.

Uh I know, for instance, on um Sherwood Lane, we get a lot of pushback about the fire training center, for instance, and the impacts that that has, even to engineers cut off in that way, not even those just on Sherwood Lane.

Um I do think that, you know, when it comes to a public hearing, if there were a public hearing that you may hear from those living in the housing units at that time, if a truly noxious use, like an asphalt plant or something, or an incinerator comes to mind, or rock crusher or something, you know, I'm anything car crusher out there that we would want.

That that's the place for it.

Um I would anticipate those questions.

And I would also just flag that I do believe under the new newly adopted or recently adopted changes to Title 49 that that a housing development here may not need a conditional use permit.

It may just be director approval.

So it it would just, I think, yeah, it would depend on what's proposed, but it may not need a conditional use permit anymore.

So uh you may keep that in mind too, that that may be part of the process.

So I'll ask Mr.

Steininger's question a little bit differently.

If we did put an asphalt plant there and um people in this the residential area um complained about it, would that change the planning commission's the planning commission's decision on putting the asphalt plant there?

Or a transfer station through you, Madam Mayor, um you can't predict the future, but going off the past, I think there's a fair chance that you would receive opposition.

And I think anytime a permit receives a lot of opposition, then there's a chance it wouldn't get approved.

Uh thank you.

Uh Mr.

Kelly and then Miss Yuscandies.

Thank you.

You had mentioned that one of the reasons why co-mingling different uses works in other cities is because they have regulations that they can fall back on and standards.

I imagine that this ordinance might not be the right place to establish those standards.

We'd probably want something a little more uh a little more bit more of a defined and holistic process.

Would you would the redefining of the comprehensive plan or some uh some other vehicle be appropriate in your mind if we did want to come back and revisit these regulations and standards that might allow for something like this?

Re-imatic mayor.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

I think the most appropriate place for those standards and the regulations would be in Title 49 and live in code as part of um part of the the land use code regulations.

And to date anyway, many some time ago, I can't honestly remember.

I think it was the 90s, maybe we did have a design review board here.

Uh, and that was more about architecture and historic architecture and that type of design.

So just to be clear, when I say design standards, I mean more of you know, will you uh put in pedestrian scale lighting?

Will you put in pedestrian walkways, separated paths, um parking in the back, or you know, other things to just make it safer for all the different uses to commingle, as you said.

Um, but the land use code is where it would likely have to live.

And then enforcement as well would be in that uh in the code too.

Missuse candies, and then Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um thank you, Director La Harn for digging into this.

You mentioned the scenario where you have you're expanding the zoning where it triggers a condition, and then unless you're coming into something that's next to you, and then it could be that's next to you and next to you, et cetera, where you're triggering a chain reaction directional.

I'm trying, I'm looking at this map and thinking of all the different ways things are zoned.

In that example that you gave, is that you have to be in the general neighborhood, or do you have to be directly bordering on the flat?

Through you, Madam Mayor.

Uh so if you're under two acres, you would have to be directly adjacent to the property that you want to be the same zoning as.

Okay.

So directly touching this.

Okay, thanks.

Further questions?

Miss Oh, sorry, Mr.

Smith and then Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

This probably would have been a good clarifying question for Mr.

Larson.

But did the Lemon Creek plan specifically did it, did it say with any specificity certain areas that should be rezoned from industrial to another zoning district?

Uh thank you, Mr.

Smith.

It did not identify specific properties, no, and I would I would just add to that the plan itself speaks about the entire Lemon Creek area.

And so it isn't, you know, expand that to what it is.

And it's not that there was still talk of preserving industrial land.

That's a goal in there as well.

And so it took into account, you know, the the neighborhoods across uh Lemon Creek, the creek itself, and it goes down um towards Western Ottawa Ways too.

So it's a larger area, and so not everything in that plan will apply to every section of Lemon Creek.

Okay, Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And I I don't know if this is the question a question for you, the manager or or the mayor, but uh the applicant had mentioned that uh the Coast Guard is requesting more details on their plan.

Or is the Coast Guard requesting more details from anything we proposed to them?

I'll go to the city manager, but we're working with them all the time to say now.

But Madam Attorney.

Umager, don't uh Madam Mainer, sorry.

Robert's the one who wants to manage.

Thank you, thank you for that question.

So uh we are, as Mayor Weldon stated, in lots of communication with the Coast Guard, but to be clear, we are not proposing any development of uh CBJ land.

What we have done is offer our property as land that private developers can use when they submit their proposals for development.

And we have been in contact with different developers, you know, asking questions about that.

But we are not intending to submit any response to that RFI.

Anything further?

Ms.

Adkisson, you've been awfully quiet.

Yes, madam mayor.

Apologies.

I'm in a dark room with a migraine right now.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that.

So we won't bother you anymore.

Um, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I was frantically scrolling through the you know, the planning commission documents and things.

Was there was there um uh protest or I guess people I'm grasping at the word, um, were there people that were opposed to this rezoning um in the neighborhood that you know during the planning commission process and director Lahorn?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh no, Mr.

Smith, I don't believe so.

Mr.

Bricks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

The um just you know, the the specific things that would be um, you know, um obnoxious to a residential development being the noise and odors.

I mean, we have the the landfill in the area and that from DZ all the way to Western auto, you're you're gonna get the smells at one point or another.

There's already an odor issue that everyone, no matter what the zoning is facing, has to deal with in that area.

Likewise, with the uh the prison and the training grounds for the officers uh at multiple times throughout the day, you'll hear a bunch of machine guns going off and bullets rippling around, and that's heard throughout all those residential areas too.

So back to the president's thing, you know, we we have dense areas of living within this that are just more specifically classified uh between the transitional housing, even the prison, the hospice and home care.

I mean, they could be in different zoned areas, but they're all still in the general area, all still generally subject to more wider um things that would be considered uh not complementary to any kind of residential area.

So is there anything special or specific that makes those types of non-complimentary things more exorbitant in in these specific areas?

Director Lahome.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh I think I'll take this a couple different ways, maybe, Mr.

Brooks.

Um, first, uh, generally speaking, anyway, I'm sure there's some non-conformings and things like that out there, but generally speaking, the assembly has adopted zoning, and then those uses are allowed to be permitted if they are conditioned or approved.

Um, and so that's how you've seen sort of the makeup of the zoning out there, because that's what the the assembly has adopted over the years.

Um of the reasons uh that I think this is important for for this land anyway, under the under the current situation.

I still come back to while others may deal with the smells of the landfill, they're not right there on top of it.

They're not walking by it, they're not having to drive by it, children aren't having to catch the school bus by it.

Um, and so those are the other things to keep in mind in the industrial.

It's the impacts both ways, too.

So um the other thought, sorry that I had, I was trying to go through the list there, uh, is back to the Coast Guard and housing.

I do want to reiterate that if the assembly adopts the zone change, there is no guarantee that it will be housing there.

It can be anything that is permissible in light commercial.

Uh and so I would just uh, but I would still go back to the conflicting uses under the current code with the current enforcement uh tools that we have, which are very little, to be honest.

We can't write fines for those um uses in the land use code.

So if people are not complying, then we ask them to comply, and then we ask them again, and usually we ask them again.

And then at that point, we decide is this life and safety or not?

And if it's an or not, then because our choice is to go through the courts.

And so usually, you know, we have to wait at that point.

So I just want the assembly to be aware if you do make if you do adopt this without the other tools to assist it, just that's the reality.

Um, and we have seen this play out in other places.

So as we allowed Sherwood Lane to be developed with more condos and housing, we have received more complaints about the fire training center, and it's used less and less.

And so there may be other reasons as well.

I know it's not the only reason.

Um, but a lot of the reasons that it kicked up was the complaints of the the neighbors in the area.

Thank you.

Um, Ms.

Wall and then Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

This question's actually for you, Madam Mayor.

Um I'm likely gonna have questions on the amendments for Ms.

Laharm.

Would you like me to ask those now or wait till we are tackling those?

Let's wait till we're tackling those.

Um, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um might be for the attorney.

The ordinance before us says, you know, a rezone to light commercial.

Does the assembly have the power to change that to say general commercial?

Uh thank you for the question.

Not without reintroducing and going back through the process.

Um, it is in the title, we would have to start over.

Uh reintroduce, have a new public hearing.

Uh do you have a follow-up for that question?

Go ahead.

Um, thank you.

Uh, Madam Attorney, since this process started in the planning commission, would it just start with us reintroducing, or would it have to go restart all the way back at the planning commission?

Um the chair, it would start, it would just be with the assembly.

The request for the ordinance came after um uh the the request for the ordinance is coming from the people protesting.

And so we wrote that actually, CDD did a great job drafting that.

Um, and they wrote that in response to the protest.

So it's just the assembly process.

Thank you.

Um, Ms.

Hall.

So Mr.

Brooks will go to you and then let's take a break and let people think on this a little.

So just for class or clarification, if we did approve this tonight, and it went to like commercial, if they wanted to then change it to general commercial, they'll restart the whole process and then we'll end back up in a discussion like this if it doesn't get passed through the planning commission.

If the planning commission didn't move it to general commercial, they could then protest and come have the same conversation here.

Five, ten, ten minutes.

We'll bring us back to order.

Um anybody come up with any more questions on our break that you'd like to ask.

Okay.

Anything the staff needs to add.

Good.

Good.

So with that, we will move to the assembly.

And we will uh just go down the list, Mr.

Brooks.

Will you move this ordinance, please?

I move that we approve ordinance two zero two six dash zero five for the rezone and ask for unanimous consent.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Brooks.

It's always good to dream.

Um any objections.

I'll object for the purposes of making an amendment.

Go ahead, Mr.

Kelly.

I move amendment one.

It would amend section two by adding the following text um after from industrial to like commercial.

So I guess I'll read I'll read the whole thing.

Um so section two uh first paragraph would read amendment to official zoning map, the official zoning map of the city and borough adopted pursuant to CBJ C forty-two twenty five one ten is amended to change the zoning of HDK LT2A and SSG IBTRB located at fifty two hundred and fifty-two twenty commercial boulevard, respectively, from industrial to blight commercial, when the following condition is satisfied.

The applicant will include plans to ensure pedestrian safety as a part of residential development on the subject parcel.

And I asked for unanimous consent.

I'd be willing to speak if needed.

Uh any objection.

I'm seeing an objection, Chris.

So go ahead and speak.

Uh thank you.

I thought that this rezone.

I guess speaking it in favor, I I feel mostly in favor of this rezone.

I did listen to the planning commission's deliberations.

And one issue that was brought up was um was managing traffic.

Uh specifically, a commissioner want was interested in in a traffic study.

I think that this location would be ideal for several reasons, but at the moment there is nothing like a crosswalk there.

Um Ms.

Lahorn mentions uh uh sidewalks on both sides.

I think that perhaps with making a few changes to accommodate the safety of any future residents, if that is the use that the owner ends up going with might make this safe and possible and maybe give the planning commission some leeway uh in setting certain safety conditions on this development.

All right.

Um I saw Ms.

Hall and then Ms.

Wall and then Ms.

Ganys.

Yeah, and I object to the amendment um it for the following reasons.

Housing is already expensive enough to build, so putting additional uh burdens on the developer, I think is uh not in our best interest.

You know, if these were uh, you know, two three bedroom apartments and likely be kids running around the neighborhood that is what's being proposed is uh studios and single bedroom and um you know I live in a neighborhood that doesn't have any sidewalks and have had kids ripping around the neighborhood on bikes and getting on the school bus and and so you know I I just don't think this additional burden is um warranted.

So I'll object to the amendment.

Thank you, Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Mayor Weldon.

I have a few questions.

I think maybe I'll start with um Director Lawhorn.

You know, this feels to me like something that comes later in the process.

You know, we're talking about rezoning.

This is already kind of assuming what this development's gonna be.

And you know, can you talk to me about like if there's rezoning went through, would this issue be cared for at a later date, depending on, you know, and what in what situation would it or would it not?

Director Lahorn.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Uh so if again, uh if it's rezoned, it can come in as any development, any use that they would like.

If it's housing uh and it meets the density, it won't require a conditional use permit.

It would be director approval.

Uh and so I don't know other than there is sidewalk on one side of the street already.

I don't know how you would, I think it was insure pedestrian safety.

Do I have that correct?

Thank you.

Yes, that is correct.

I the insure gives me great pause, frankly.

I'm not sure how you would necessarily do that without other standards to rely back on if code stays as it is today.

I don't know that there would be much more to add out there under the current code that would give me that ability to really have any more teeth to have more than just the sidewalk really that is out there.

It would be, I think we would be hard pressed unless the developer is willing to work with us.

I think we would be hard pressed to say you must put in a crosswalk here.

That might be easy, but maybe not wanting to do a separated path.

Um I do I understand that different uses can work and that certainly people grow up without sidewalks on both sides and things like that.

But this is also an area of a lot of trucking.

Uh whether it's trucking to Costco, trucking to Home Depot, you name it, it's coming and going.

And so that ensure pedestrian safety uh just gives me pause.

I'm not sure how we would ensure that.

Ms.

Candies.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I was going to object to the amendment.

Um, or I am going to object to the amendment.

Primarily because to me, this is tied to this is development language.

This is I think it's so important that we're clear-eyed whenever we deal with these rezones when it rises to our level and gets out of the planning commission because we are talking about the zone, the new zone that we're switching to and all the things that come with it and all the conditions.

And we have no other say beyond that.

This reminds me of a different one that we did in the past out North Douglas, where we were trying to control what would happen afterwards, and we wanted to hold on to it.

And that was about traffic.

And um really, I think we just have to be clear-eyed and make the decision.

Are you okay with going from this zone to this zone and all that entails, all the good, all the bad?

Um, and so we can't, you know, condition that.

I think we have to decide on the facts that we have here tonight and what we know here tonight.

So I'm gonna object to this amendment.

Um, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Or the maker or possibly director Lawhorn.

I I guess I would see this applying to the parcel.

I mean, it says on the subject parcel, so it would be ensuring pedestrian safety there.

I guess it were you all did you have a sense that it would be able to be applied elsewhere?

Like I'm not concerned about them walking on their parcel.

I'm concerned about them crossing over to Costco to get their, you know, to get to the to get to the sidewalk on the other side.

I'm concerned about them going off site, but it I would doubt we that we would have the ability or that we would put that condition on the owners of the parcel to be able to do those other improvements on, you know, to ensure the pedestrian safety where I'm more concerned about pedestrian safety.

So I think like building a crosswalk is not something that the applicant would be able to do independently anyway.

The language of my amendment says we'll include plans to ensure safety.

It doesn't say that they themselves will be responsible for that safety.

So maybe it's a matter of working with with the city to to install a crosswalk.

Uh maybe it's um a matter of working with the city um to have uh to have have sidewalks adjoining the parcel.

Um and maybe it's it's a matter of the city saying, well, like none of these things have been met.

Uh and you clearly are putting in a permit here for a residential area, and this is not going to be for any of the other three dozen uses uh for light commercial.

So we we deny it because these conditions aren't satisfied.

So it's my effort here to require that these conditions uh are met, uh, that there is some safety measures in place before the planning commission approves a permit to build a residential area in that property.

Uh Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, my question is also for the maker of the motion, and um it does impact my vote.

Uh Mr.

Kelly, you do not need to tell me the answer to this question.

But would if this does not pass, would you still be supportive of the ordinance?

Thank you, Ms.

Wall.

I I am leaning against supporting the ordinance.

If this amendment doesn't pass, I haven't reached a final decision yet.

Mr.

Steinger.

Thank you.

And I think Miss Lassorn, you already answered this, but I just want to kind of confirm more pointedly.

Without this amendment, there would be nothing else within your control to require consideration of pedestrian safety with a couple hundred unit apartment or you know, whatever it is, residential units that they're planning on putting in there.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Uh thank you for the question.

So I I do want to repeat that uh if this proposal meets density that's allowed in the zoning district, then it will not need a planning commission uh permit.

It will be director approval only.

It's because you're building to the density now, so you no longer need a conditional use permit for that.

Uh and so then if a development were to come in, we would send it out for agency review.

So it would go to general engineering, it would go to streets, it would go to engineering.

Um I don't think DOT has anything out there, but if it did, it would go to them as well.

And so I would expect feedback from those other divisions and comments, and maybe it is that a crosswalk could help.

Um I don't know that we would look at necessarily putting in another sidewalk, uh, especially at the city's expense.

Uh, and then also then there's the maintaining of that through the winter and then through the years.

Uh, but we would certainly look at any issues of concerns that the other divisions would add would flag for us, just as we would do with any development that comes through.

Um Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

This question is for the attorney.

Have we ever conditioned like this before?

Thank you for the question.

Um, Miss Hughes Candy's actually referenced the one that we did before.

So I took the language from um the recommended language for your amendment.

It was very similar to what the assembly did in North Douglas.

So it actually conditions the rezone on something happening to protect public safety.

The North Douglas rezone was not allowed.

The rezone was not allowed to take place unless there was um infrastructure improvements to allow protection of public safety along North Douglas Highway.

So I took the exact same language for your amendment.

Um so the zoning change would not take place unless the applicant um included plans to ensure pedestrian safety as part of their residential development.

It doesn't ensure that there's uh residential development, but if there is they have to have plans to ensure pedestrian safety before that rezone will even take place.

So yes, we have done it before.

Uh thank you.

I'm gonna chime in so I can turn.

Um so I'll actually speak in favor of the ordinance.

Um this is our only touch we're gonna have on this, um, sounds like from Director Lahorn.

So um I appreciate your example, uh, Ms.

Hall, but uh you aren't in a commercial area that has trucks driving all over, and even the owner of the land with his brewery trucks are driving trucks around there.

So um I think what we can do, whatever we can do to uh have pedestrian safety there would be a good addition to this uh rezoning.

So that Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I will speak um in opposition to this amendment.

Um for some of the or a few of the reasons that um assemblymember Hall mentioned.

We're adding more conditions.

Um including, I think that this has to be a residential development to move to lake commercial, which I'm not sure is appropriate for us to do.

I agree with Miss Candies that we have seen this play out before.

It hasn't gone well.

Um I think the other thing for me is you know, I read carefully all the work that the planning commission and the um uh development department did to prepare for this, and and they did a good job talking about what the pros and the cons are of this change and pedestrian safety was not part of the reason that the planning commission nor CDD made the decision that they did.

There are a bunch of other things that we're gonna talk about.

Um, but this to me doesn't change, you know, the reasoning for why those groups um, you know, as they considered the difference between these two zoning districts.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anything further?

Ms.

Huscanys.

Thanks, Madam Mayor.

I'll just say that I think I spoke quickly to the mechanism and it's really has to do with process and why I don't think this is an appropriate amendment for this rezone.

I think there's a lot more we could talk about, whether this rezone is a good idea or not, whether it's whether we should get involved or not.

But by doing this amendment first, this is super powerful because if we if this amendment passes, it will almost make the rest of those conversations moot.

Because if you are in favor, if if you have been compelled by the facts of what we heard tonight, either from the applicant or from a clarifying question to Director Lawhorn, if any of that is making you think that there is uh a reasonable argument for approving this go to like commercial.

That and then you condition it to something like this that is so vague and hard to define and hard for the applicant to act on, then it doesn't matter if we support it as amended and it passes tonight.

So I would say I would just urge people to vote no because especially if you're thinking about approving the light commercial.

Uh thank you.

We have an amendment and we have objection, Madam Clerk.

Please call the roll.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

For Mr.

Killy's Kelly's amendment to ordinance 2026-05 to include the language of when the falling condition is satisfied, the applicant will include plans to ensure pedestrian safety as part of res part of residential development on the subject parcel.

Mr.

Kelly.

Yes.

Ms.

Hall.

No.

Ms.

Hughes Scandis.

No.

Ms.

Wall.

No.

Ms.

Ask is Adkisson.

No.

Mr.

Steininger.

Yes.

Mr.

Brooks.

No.

Deputy Mayor Smith.

Yes.

Madam Mayor.

Yes.

Motion fails with five nays and four years.

Uh thank you, Madam Clerk.

Um, so with that, um, I will hand the gavel to Mr.

Smith, because I also am rejecting for purposes of amendment.

Oops.

And I knew the wrong thing.

Madam Mayor.

And uh this particular one, I'm channeling uh Ms.

Gladyshewski.

Um, so I moved to require that the development permit include the requirement that the developer will notify renters um and owners of the plan, presence of a compost and transfer station.

We have made no um bones about the fact that that's what we have planned for that area.

Both of them are going to smell, have lots of noises.

Um I just think it's kind of a buyer beware thing.

And again, we're not gonna touch this again.

So if it goes through, so I just am moving that it doesn't require anything, but other let to let people know that's what's gonna happen.

So with that, um I move my amendment.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Objections, Miss Euskandies.

um bones about the fact that that's what we have planned for that area both of them are going to smell have lots of noises um and uh i just think that's kind of a buyer beware thing and again we're not going to touch this again so if it goes through so i just am moving that it doesn't require anything but other let to let people know that's what's gonna happen so with that um i move my amendment thank you madam mayor objections miss you scandes thank you deputy mayor smith objection for purposes of a question to the attorney this to me is a cleaner example of does not apply to the rezone we have an ordinance in front of us tonight that is an ordinance that accomplishes a rezone is this amendment an order mad so i i would say it is an order when i go back and look at at the conditions that we've done before um that with this type of rezone and protest we've put conditions out there that don't often quite match like if there was an appeal or something um direct where you've got um the following five six seven conditions so this is a nebulous process it's a little bit different so I went back to is it public safety welfare and health and given that it's purely a notification if it's residential um I think that it it is okay to go forward there are a a bunch of ifs on that but it's signaling what is important to the assembly which is why we have this process so I did speak to the mayor about it earlier and said that it that I felt like legally it could go forward thank you for that I think I'm confused if the mechanism I'm looking at the ordinance right now and I'm looking at the whereas and the be it enacted how would how does this amendment fit into this body of this ordinance or where does it even go because it seems like intent and I agree that this is the right process for us to you know make our intent clear to the director but how does it fit into this ordinance it's a good question.

So I think um it would fit into well I would leave it to the maker of the motion she can make it something more similar to what Mr Kelly did which is conditioning a rezone upon um an agreement to notify or she can include as a whereas clause if it's in tent so I would leave it to the maker of the motion to clarify that I apologize I didn't think of that ahead of time.

That's all right we did talk briefly about it.

Well that's why I said in the development permit so it doesn't necessarily part of the um ordinance it's would be up to uh director lawhorn actually to include that and where I see it it would be that when someone signs a rental agreement or something like that there's just a line there that says be aware that a plan compost and transfer station will be nearby one more follow up for the maker I understand the intent of what the agreement would be and how simple that can be for the ordinance 2025 dash or 2026 dash zero five where would you like that inserted of those two options that's why I said it's not a good place for it to be inserted unless tagged onto it somewhere I mean there's that's why I didn't do the same thing that Mr Kelly did because there's no way to insert it I and then I would object and say it's not an amendment well I would point a border and say if it's not in this ordinance then it's not an amendment attorney so uh my recommendation based on what the maker of the motion said would that it become a whereas clause that um that evidences your intent loses two minutes okay

Bring us back.

Madam Mayor.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Attorney.

And thank you, Ms.

Hughes Scandes for bringing the process question.

So I would just put it as the last whereas clause.

So it would read, whereas the city intends to develop a transfer and compost facility.

Near the parcel, it is our intent that the development permit include the requirement that the vet developer will notify renters or owners of the planned presence of this station.

Heard the motion.

Objections, further objections.

Ms.

Wall.

I'll object.

I just think we're stepping outside our lane here and doing this now.

And you know, the mayor says this is the only time we're gonna touch this, but you know, we got people on our team that are also, you know, capable of uh uh making good decisions.

Um and the assembly could do this at any point down the road uh if they want to, if there is a development permit, and et cetera, et cetera.

We if we can pass a mayor, did you have did you have a response or my from my understanding?

Director Lahorn said it would just be up to the director and it wouldn't go through a CUBE process necessarily.

Thanks.

I'll object for a question.

Would it be appropriate for you to amend this or make an amendment to the motion to say that if the future renters or owners of this plant of this area um have issues with the nearby industrial uses surrounding it that they should contact the assembly and the owner of the property and not CDD?

Very good.

Any we have a motion and we have objections.

Thank you.

I'm gonna attempt to relay that back for Madam Mayor's amendment number two.

Where to include a whereas the city intends to develop a transfer and compost facility near the parcel is our intent that the development permit include the requirement that the development will developer will notify renters and owners of the presence of this station.

That's correct.

Thank you.

Ms.

Wall.

No.

Ms.

Hughes Scandis.

No.

Mr.

Kelly.

Yes.

Deputy Mayor Smith.

Yes.

Mr.

Steininger.

Yes.

Ms.

Hall.

No.

Mr.

Brooks.

No.

Ms.

Adkisson.

No.

Madam Mayor.

Yes.

Motion fails.

Five nays and four years.

Pass the cavel back to the mayor.

Okay, we are back to the main motion.

Are there objections?

Okay, Mr.

Smith.

Um, thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh this is a tough one.

Um one will disagree that we need housing.

Um I do have questions about the compatibility of housing at this zone.

Um, I have concerns that it'd be the only light commercial in this area.

Um we're not moving to say it should be general commercial.

Um threw my notes on the ground.

Um it's okay.

It's not gonna be spectacular either way.

Um I do have issues with the compatibility.

Um we also know that we cannot just if we rezone, it does not mean that they will build housing.

We know we can't do that.

Um we also know we need to preserve industrial land.

Um again, I'm I'm I'm torn.

I have a lot of faith in the in the proposers of the change.

Um could it work?

Sure.

I guess, but when I'm uncertain, I'm gonna vote against um the rezone and and look to um you know, also look to the expertise in the in the in the thinking of the planning commission.

So I will object.

Any further objection?

Um objects also, but I see a couple of hands here.

So uh Mr.

Brooks.

Do you want to speak in favor of it?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Yes.

Um just looking at this, you know, from a few steps back.

There's you know, a significant need in the community for housing that uh these individuals are trying to address in some way or another.

Um, you know, depending on what the timeline is for that, but it seems like you know, we're using a loose guiding document that's not binding as an excuse to say no for someone who's trying to address uh a serious issue that everyone is feeling, and it's based off of things like noise, noxious odors, and non-complimentary uses, and there's already precedences that break those non-complimentary uses all across the community.

So to um apply it as such to this specific one when it is um and could be a desirable area for housing for community members as well.

Um I just I I don't think it's it's practical to use a a non-binding guiding document as a as a means to uh try and stop um housing development.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

I happen to live in the area, and I actually felt somewhat inspired by the location.

There are some concerns that I tried to address as far as requiring pedestrian safety, but I also see this as an ideal spot for something of a community here.

We have uh a store where people can go right across the street and buy their groceries.

We have a Mexican restaurant in the area, we have a brewery where people can can go and recreate, and all of that is within walking distance.

And this is the kind of development that I would really like to see encouraged.

There's more I wanted to say, but I probably should have written notes like Mr.

Smith.

Um so I'll uh drop it on the floor.

Yeah.

Um so I think I'll I'll I'll leave it, uh I'll leave it for there.

I think this is uh I I am speaking in favor of this.

Um as well.

Thank you, Madame Mayor.

I'll I'll speak in support here.

I um definitely agree this is a tough call.

Um the um I understand why the um CDD uh department made the or staff made the determination they did.

I understand why the planning commission made the um decision they did, but if you look at the the planning commission decisions were not unanimous, um they were passed by five votes.

Um and you look at the CDD record, it you know, it's very clear this is there's some gray area here in terms of conforming with um, you know, where we we've been and where we're headed.

Um I think the two things that that came up the most in in those documents are you know the argument that um we want to product protect industrial land.

I don't disagree, but I think you know, we have swung in the other direction that when you ask people what we need more, they say housing.

Um I think the other thing that you know I do have concerns about um you know, mixing industrial and housing.

That's there are many communities where that has resulted in, you know, um our poor people and people of color, you know, um living in places that are environmentally toxic.

So I know we have to be careful about that.

Um, I think in this case, when you look at what has been developed in that industrial zone, um it it speaks to why, you know, that's not something we need.

Most of that is general commercial.

Um, there's lots of housing in the area, so it feels like it will feel not like spot zoning um to allow for light commercial um in this area.

So thank you.

Ms.

Hugh Scandis.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I'll speak in support of this.

I know we all share as a real need.

And um the reason that I won't is because this is not a situation where if we zone it, it will come.

Um, so I am looking at this and with theory that this is a hard decision.

That I have to look at all the uses and think about the area and think about um everything in the planning commission files.

And I I do think that I fully see how people got there on the I think there you can make the case for why to deny this.

But I am less convinced when I look at this map of the area, and I think of my knowledge as a resident of the area, and I think about how many of us visit that area every Saturday or Sunday whenever you go to Costco.

Um, it doesn't seem I would prefer it be general commercial, but that's not a choice here tonight.

So when I look at how many uses in the area are compatible with like commercial, I feel like seeing this rezoned into something that is going to allow it to develop is something that I think is going to be a better use of that land than maintaining it as industrial.

And just maintaining industrial lands, we've just had multiple people say we all know that's uh vital.

That's part of our economic strategy, certainly right now.

I will say that communities develop not always according to your plans.

Um, I grow less convinced um watching the community develop.

That doesn't mean when you you develop all your industrial land and then it's gone.

Well, now you've painted yourself into a corner.

So the community can't develop that way.

But we also have industrial land that has sat around the borough not being used for industrial purposes.

Um, I've driven past that parcel for years and didn't know that uh the owners of it owned it and had my own schemes as well.

As why doesn't anyone buy that and do something with it?

You could do this, you could do that.

And I would rather see whatever comes of it, housing would be great, but whatever goes there, I would rather see it become developed because I think there are lots of good things that it could be developed for.

So um I'll support it.

See nothing, I'll speak to my objection.

I appreciate what everybody said, but the fact of the matter is we basically have two spots left of industrial land here and out at Sherwood Lane.

And everything Mr.

Kelly said is true.

It's gonna end up being a neighborhood and it's just gonna encroach more on industrial land.

And we have two places left for industrial land and um housing is important, but so is preserving the very little industrial land we have.

So that's all object.

Mr.

Smith and anybody else?

Madam Mayor, sorry, I'm I wasn't gonna just I wasn't gonna speak to why I'm gonna oppose the motion.

I did just want to correct something though.

The comprehensive plan is not a loose guiding document that's not binding.

It is a long public process driven document that says where you should have things or where certain things should be allowed.

I just want to correct that it's it's not just a loose like thing, it it does bind decisions, and I think rightfully so.

So sorry to call yeah, Mr.

Prince.

Anyone else want to speak, Miss Ms.

Hall?

Yeah, and uh thank you, Madam Mayor, and and director Lawhorn said, you know, industrial used to be, you know, such a need here, and now housing is coming up.

And I think of workforce housing particularly and the rising demographic of single people needing housing, uh, not just elders uh, you know, living alone, but there's more people needing this type of efficiency or um studio or studio or uh uh one bedroom.

And knowing that we have workers in our community that are spending their nights at the cold weather shelter or camping out in the woods, you know, those are workers.

So I think that balance, um, I totally get that we we want to preserve our industrial land, but the fact that this is sat empty for I think you said 10 years.

Um it's flat.

It's uh you know, I I think it's um something that we should allow expanded use and allow housing.

Thank you.

All right, we have an a motion and we have objection, Madam Clerk.

Will you call roll?

Thank you, madam mayor.

For ordnance 2026-05, an ordinance amending the official zoning map of the city and borough to change the zoning of HDK LT2A and SSG IV TRB located at 5200 and 520 commercial boulevard from industrial to light commercial, Mr.

Brooks.

Yes, Deputy Mayor Smith.

No, Ms.

Hall.

Yes, Mr.

Steininger.

Yes.

Ms.

Adkisson.

Yes.

Ms.

Hughes Candies.

Yes.

Ms.

Wall.

Yes.

Ms.

Mr.

Kelly.

Yes.

Madam Mayor.

No.

Motion carries with two nays and seven years.

All right.

Thank you.

Um, looking at the body, do we need a break before the next one?

Or are we ready to move on?

Okay.

We'll move on then because these folks have been very patient with us.

So item number four, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordnance 2026-06, an ordinance amending the official zoning map of the city and borough to change the zoning of seven-mile LT4 located at 7170 Glacier Highway from D18 to light commercial.

Thank you, uh, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I so this ordinance amends the official zoning map uh to uh change the zoning of uh a lot located near seven mile, which is where our streets uh shop is located, in case to kind of give you an idea uh on glacier highway from D18 to light commercial.

Uh the staff recommended denial of this rezone, and uh the planning commission upheld that decision um because although there are more units uh in uh you although you can get to a greater density of housing um in light commercial, you can still do very dense housing in D18.

Um I will hand it over to the uh attorney if she has anything to add on process.

Um it's the same thing that you just did.

Thank you for that.

Uh so Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move to suspend the rules to allow the applicants a total of 10 minutes of public testimony and clarifying quite.

No, I just can't any objection.

Uh seeing none, that is so moved.

So if the applicants want to come up.

So just to be clear, you guys will have 10 minutes total, and I'll pipe in every once in a while with your time.

Um yep, but just a minute.

I'm just waiting for the clerk to be ready.

Are we we're good?

Okay.

All right.

Uh go ahead and give us your name and area town you live in, and you have 10 minutes.

I am Josette Duran, and I'm from Midtown, Schweitzer, and Lemon Creek area.

I think everybody knows what that is.

And um Marciano.

Excuse me.

Um, yeah.

So I'll be speaking on the um the points on the rezone appeal specifically, and then we can get into what a great project is going to be.

Should you support it?

And I excuse me, I just thank you for your time tonight.

Um, there were five issues on appeal that we um we did uh file file with the notice of appeal.

The first one being that the planning commission's interpretation and application of the controlling land use plan is erroneous under CBJ Title 49, because the decision relied primarily on the 2013 comprehensive plan instead of the more recent and location-specific 2018 lemon area lemon creek area plan, which expressly promotes mixed use and light commercial zoning in the mile seven and eight glacier highway corridor where our subject property is.

Excuse me.

The second um appeal issue was that the decision is not supported by substantial evidence in light of the whole record under CBJ Title One, because it fails to consider that the proposed predominantly residential mixed use project, approximately 121 units, including child care, open space, direct bus stop access, trail access, and neighborhood serving amenities directly advances the 2018 Lemon Creek Area Plants goal of housing diversity, compact mixed use development, efficient land use, and reduced vehicle dependency.

The written findings are inadequate under CBJ Title Number One because they do not explain why light commercial zoning is incompatible with the 2018 Lemon Creek Area Plan, despite the project's clear alignment with that plan's mixed use and transit-oriented corridor policies, and despite a non-unanimous vote in which two commissioners opposed adopting the director's findings.

Issue number four, the commission design denied procedural due process under CBJ Title One by disregarding uncontroverted applicant testimony that the Alaska Mental Health Land Trust's office prior opposition letter is outdated, and that the current trust staff support the rezone, which is consistent with the Lemon Creek Lemon Creeks plan call for trust land consolidation on page 27, which we will get to.

Issue number five, the decision contains a factual error adopted from the director's presentation that child care facilities are conditional or more restricted in light commercial than in D18, whereas Title 49, table of permissible uses, allows child care centers outright in light commercial the same as in D18.

That concludes the issues from the appeal form.

To supplement the record on issue number four, I passed out.

You have a one-page update on the mental health trust position that was submitted tonight.

The original opposition letter from the mental health trust regarding this project and rezone was from someone who no longer works at the trust.

Marciano has since had additional positive communications with the current trust representative.

And they have expressed um they the representative expressed concern about a potential scrap or junkyard on the site, which wouldn't be permitted in a light commercial district anyway.

And they emphasize the need for nice looking buildings.

Six minutes left.

He indicated that he thought our conceptual design met that standard.

The representative also expressed support for additional housing, which the rezone to light commercial would help achieve at this site.

The 2018 Lemon Creek Area Plan can is the controlling document for our site.

I distributed, maybe we won't go into it, but you can see the pages from the Lemon Creek area plan that speaks specifically to the issue of encouraging um mixed use like light commercial and residential mixed use together.

So in the interest of time, I won't read all through of those, but um you can look at those.

And um one of the issues that Jill had brought up was that if you rezone to a light commercial, then it could just all be light commercial, right?

It wouldn't be residential.

It doesn't behoove us to build or anybody to build all light commercial because the commercial market is soft since um the pandemic has happened.

So we wouldn't we won't want to do that unless the city wants to uh build a municipal building there, then that would be a perfect use for light commercial there.

However, that's that isn't what our um our conceptual plan is, which Marciano can um speak to.

Um if and when we apply for the mixed use of uh light commercial and um residential, then it will be subject to the conditional use process where the different concerns that were brought up here like traffic safety and and that kind of thing would um would be addressed.

And I think I'm gonna give you your time so that you can four and a half minutes.

Let me know when I'm like a minute left.

I want to kind of sidebar on something else on this whole process.

Um yeah, so Marciano Durani or she's like the brain's, you know, the legal part of it.

Um she likes to argue, so she's the attorney part.

I'm more of the thinker, you know, go do her imaginary kind of guy.

And um, I've been in Geno for over 50 years.

I was sitting there, you know, I know Beth from school and such, and she's trying to steal my lunch money, whatever.

But I I'll sit in there trying to figure out how long has it been, and I'm coming up with 40 something years, and it's actually been 50 years since I've been in Juno, right?

And I've been to construction with my dad and stuff.

We did a lot of projects here.

Juno is means a lot to me.

My family's here.

I'm concerned about the direction of Juno.

I've been here in the 80s when things were there was plenty of houses around that we couldn't get sold and such.

So we're at a different place right now.

Um aside from that, our project that there's two um letters I submitted.

Okay, one shows a pretty grandiose plan where you see some apartments with some um other mixed-use units down below.

That's an idea in the synopsis that I submitted was maybe a yoga studio down below for the tenants, gonna have you know a hundred and fifty uh units, say um, something to keep the the traffic down, something that will build a community, because one of the things that we're looking at as developers is how can we implement this community feel in Juno in these different areas that are left to develop?

So that thinking outside the box to try to bring all these things that the people want.

We did have a uh meeting on a different zone change, and that was one of the um ideas that came up.

So we're trying to implement those ideas into on this particular project.

Um, the second sheet shows the the buildings for like 120 units, roughly.

And um, and what's good about this is the location, it's on the bus line.

It's right across from light commercial is a city shop.

There's that driveway that separates us too centimeters, right?

So the code allows us to adjacent property zone changes when we're that close, and you can't get any closer than what we are right there.

What's good also about this location is Heiselman Ridge, uh, the uh, you know, uh trail right there.

It's a perfect great place for residents to come and get together, be active in the community.

Uh, and I think it's something that um we want to do a hundred and twenty units minimum is what we're after.

Uh somebody at the planning commission did say something about light commercial.

If we're gonna do that, that never even end entered my mind.

A matter of fact, when she said that, I'm like, I didn't even think of that.

Uh because it's not a use right now for us.

I mean, we got commercial, light commercial are trying to um, you know, that's not moving, I should say.

For us on the commercial side of stuff, for us, it's more the construction for the housing part that we're that's our business.

Um, and that's um where we're at with this project.

Want to get these houses done and get them up and get them to people's hands.

Now, I'm gonna probably got a minute left or so.

115.

So I'm gonna take them one minute and 15 seconds left to say this on this process because I'm boots on the ground.

I'm a developer contractor here in Gino for many years since I was 12 in 1977 when we moved up here.

Anyway, so this process, and and here's the problem.

We we do have a lot a crisis for housing, all right.

And what's being done about it, we got to look at the process.

I applied for this zone change in January 2025.

I submitted the application, it got kicked back because there was not a uh pre-conference done.

Okay.

So we got kicked back, wait for the city to set up a pre-conference.

We go in there and meet with the pre-conference.

It takes all of maybe an hour, and then we got to go back and then they send us the deal, uh, the writing, which wasn't no great impact on our project altogether.

And then um we go and we get uh uh you know, public hearing, and then before you know it, we're at the plan commission in October.

Now we're rejected in October.

And if it shouldn't have been, because if you look at the comprehensive plan in 2013 was adopted for Lemon Creek, it's we shouldn't even be here in my mind.

If you could convince me otherwise, that's fine, but it's clearly stays in that comprehensive plan.

What we're trying to do is allowed, and that's what Juno was trying to do.

She covered it up pretty good.

I'm trying to go fast.

Um that's kind of my bone to pick.

If we want to fix this stuff, and we got a lot of pressure coming up from the uh Coast Guard, 250 units, right?

How are we gonna get that if we're got this delay over a year now?

And we still haven't.

Mr.

Drian, we have to stop you.

Sorry.

Uh questions, Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um my question is a bit it it's about the the choice of light commercial as your zoning district.

I guess I got the assumption, you know.

You I think staff, you know, laid out you can get higher density in that property for housing um through D18, um, with with some, you know, added things you have to do to do that.

I kind of assumed listening to the planning commission meeting and looking at your materials that you are hoping to do some commercial as part of your housing project.

It is that is that why you want light commercial because you want that kind of ability to do both commercial and housing, or is it really just about density?

And in which case, why not just keep the zoning district?

Thank you for the question.

It's more about density, quite frankly.

Again, I'm trying to think and see what we can do that's going to be different.

We don't have to do the light commercial uh fronts that are in that one first plan where you have again a yoga studio and or or some sort of wine tasting room, um, child care facility, uh something for the tenants to rent out and that kind of jazz.

But you know, we're not gonna build it if they don't come either, right?

Just like you said, I mean, we still got to figure out if there's a market for that.

If there's not, then we're not gonna do it.

We could develop the construction part of it to where the lower units, because you'll we'll have ADA units on the bottom floor.

Not all the full first floor is gonna be like storefronts, say.

Um, but we will construct those so that if it doesn't pan out, or if we if one of them or two of them, three don't work out, we can convert those into condos anyway.

Okay, just build them that way with that in mind.

So it's pretty fairly easy to do.

Um so to answer your question, we want the density, like we said, Gino needs more houses.

Yeah, we can do 18 in 72 units.

72 is not more than 120, okay?

120 is more, plus with the density bonuses that you're talking about.

I think we can get up to 150, you know, 30 more units.

That's a big difference in ticking some getting some people off the street, getting some the we're gonna do one, two, and three.

I don't stop you because you've answered the question.

Completely answered.

Um further questions.

Um, Mr.

Smith.

Maybe you were thank you, Madam Mayor.

Maybe you're kind of getting there.

I guess you know, I've I've seen that in D18, you can get up to 91 units.

I guess like, does that number doesn't work for you?

Or anyway, just curious.

Like, does a 91 unit housing development not work for you on this site?

I don't think 91 units works for the city of Juno.

We're in a crunch right now.

And and thanks for bringing up the site.

The site is an excellent location, bus line, and you know, as many units as we can.

That's what we're thinking.

You have to just stick with the answer to the question.

I won't be thorough on my answers.

Um, I have a question if nobody else has.

So I'm looking at our map and it shows three parcels right there.

I look at your map and it doesn't show those three parcels.

So how do they fit into your plan?

Those three parcels are not ours.

So the plan, uh, I'm not sure.

Let me look at my plan again.

I think that's the back side of the property.

It should be the back side.

We have the whole four acres on the, you know, so that's the parcels would be right there.

Yeah, those units.

Okay.

Um, Mr.

Schmidt.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, you mentioned you've had conversations with the mental health trust office.

They have not submitted anything in writing from the office saying that they support or oppose the project.

All that is a written thing, is the old letter that said, you know, anyway.

I guess is there any new written correspondence from the mental health trust office on this?

I've uh requested from Daniel, or excuse me, David McDonald, who took over for the lady that wrote that first letter.

And I've been dealing with them since we were in Florida in October is when we first initiated contact.

I showed him what our plans were.

He was all on about on board on it.

Last conversation was last week, and believe he spoke to two members and kind of downloaded to offer the support for this project because that's what you know, our conversations were.

So I asked him if he could write a letter to quash the letter that's in the record, because it that's not where the position is anymore.

And um, and their idea and their concern was that we're gonna go um light commercial to do this scrapyard junkyard.

That's what his concern was because they don't want to have their properties look down on something like that.

Okay, thank you.

Um Mr.

Brooks, was that a hand up?

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Did you uh say that it was um the planning commission's reasoning for disapproval was based off of the 2013 comprehensive plan?

Yes, sir.

And to assembly member Greg's point, I I think that'd be an example of using it as loose guidance for decisions.

Uh Mr.

Brooks, we try to stay away from those comments, please.

Uh Ms.

Houston, Hughes Candy's.

Oh, but pardon me, Madam Mayor.

This is not for the applicant.

I just realized.

Yep.

I have some questions for Director Lahorn, too.

Who has questions for the applicants?

Seeing none, thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Director Lahorn, you might as well come up.

Okay, who has questions for Director Lahorn?

Ms.

Hughes Scandies.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

This is a really easy question.

I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting my materials correctly.

We have looking at the highlighted parcel to the right of it.

There is our giant parcel.

And I believe that's the CBJ shop.

Is that correct?

Is that also zone light commercial?

Okay.

Thank you.

That was an easy one.

Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

This might be easy too.

The D18 zoning district requires that housing be built there, Director Lahunt.

Thank you, Mr.

Smith.

It mostly allows for housing.

There are some other uses like child care and some small offices, I think under a thousand square feet.

Um, but very minor um uses in D18.

Um Ms.

Wall and then Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um can you talk a little bit more about what it looks like to get more density in D18, the alternative residential subdivision?

What does that kind of mean and how does that work and thank you, Madam Mayor?

Uh so currently um D18 or like commercial could apply for an alternative residential subdivision.

Um it is a two-step process, it does involve the planning commission.

Um you have to submit a preliminary plan, and that says what you're going to do on the site, and then a preliminary plat if you're subdividing because you can create the small unit lots.

Um, or you can keep it all condo too.

It's it has a several options in there.

Um and then once that is approved, then you have to do your construction plans uh through general engineering and engineering, and then you would the applicant would come back with a final plan.

Uh if there were any changes, usually that the planning commission would have uh maybe conditioned or asked for revisions, those would show up in the final plan, and also a final plat, again if subdivision was required.

Um in this instance, D18 on the property on this property um would, as mentioned earlier, um, equal about 91 units under the ARS with the bonus densities, density bonus.

Uh Mr.

Brooks and then Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh is there any type of restrictions with uh conducting or operating child care and light commercial?

Uh directing law.

Sorry, thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh no, child care would be allowed in both D18 and uh light commercial.

Go ahead.

There's there's no like capacity restrictions or sizes, anything like that.

Uh through you, Madam Mayor, and I may ask the attorney too for a little assistance, but I believe that the numbers are more of a state um license operation and less so to do with the city.

Am I correct?

Okay.

Okay, well.

Thank you.

Okay, good.

You answer that.

I was gonna say we'll move on.

Uh Mr.

Kelly.

Thank you.

The rezoned switch to light commercial.

Would that what kind of density would we be looking at with that compared to the alternative for D18?

Three, Madam Mayor, thank you.

So under under at D18, through an alternative residential subdivision, the site could uh go up to about 91 units.

Uh light commercial allows for up to 30 units per acre.

And I'm not sure about running it under the ARS because I don't think we did run those numbers off the top of my head.

Go ahead.

So it's 30 units per so 30 units per acre, about four acres, so about 120 units.

Okay, thank you.

Well, everybody else is thinking something.

I have a couple questions.

Um Mr.

Duran's map, he has no through access.

Um they have to a provide access to the parcels above them, and B, do they have to provide an in and out onto Glacier Highway?

Uh thank you, Madam Mayor.

They will have they have their frontage on Glacier Highway.

So their access would have to be through that frontage.

And then as far as the lands uh above, uh, I believe they do have other access points to Egan.

And so I don't believe they would have to offer that um another uh right of way to those properties.

Uh Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um we brought up the previous rezone out North Douglas.

Went from was it D15 to light commercial?

Have they developed housing on that?

Are they developed that lot and have they developed housing out there?

For you, Madam Mayor.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Smith.

Uh so uh so to answer your question, it was, I believe, D15.

It was about eight, 15, 18 acres, and it was rezoned to light commercial with the condition mentioned earlier about safety, um, which trust me has been a real real fun time trying to figure that one out with DOT because that's also not a CBJ road.

So that one made that one a bit more complicated.

Um no, so I will say the applicant from the get-go was quite clear that they did not intend to build housing units there.

Um they were going for boat storage.

And I think respectfully, some people heard boat condos, and so kept thinking uh unit living units above the storage.

And the applicant, to his credit, repeated many times that he did not intend to build housing above.

He was only looking for boat storage.

Uh subsequent to that, the uh uh that property was owned by more than one entity.

It has since uh moved to only one of them.

And my understanding is that the owner does intend to move forward with boat storage.

And I spoke to them in the fall, and it was only boat storage at this time.

Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

That brought up um was a good question that brought up something for me.

In other places that have been um that are zoned like commercial, do you see anecdotally that that flexibility, you know, to have some resident, some commercial and some residential is you know, helping developers build housing.

Through you, Madam Mayor.

Uh thank you, Ms.

Wool.

Uh, the other one that comes to mind because the one on Douglas was bought based off of the one on Atlan Drive, and that site still sit sits vacant today.

It has not been built.

It's was permitted, I think it's permitted for 22 units.

Um, but it still remains vacant today.

And that's been prior to me coming here, so over a decade.

Uh Mr.

Kelly and then Ms.

Hall.

Thank you.

Um, I guess this question could be for anybody along that row.

So so my my main issue with the rezone is that is is the uses beyond housing that it could be used for.

I do like that under like commercial, this increases the the density by potentially 39 units.

Is there another way to achieve that?

Uh could could the assembly draft an ordinance that would create another another zoning?

I mean that sounds sloppy, uh, but if we were to think of a creative solution like that, I guess when would be appropriate to do that or or how could we best do that?

I can I take it.

They're gonna find out where answers.

Okay.

Start with Director Lahor.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh I would encourage the assembly, if that is the direction to not do it now to stay involved, stay involved in the comprehensive plan.

We're almost there.

We're entering phase three soon.

That's the last phase.

And that truly is where those discussions should happen.

There is no other zoning district, um, Mr.

Kelly, between D18 and light commercial.

Um, the Durands have asked for the the next one up, if you will.

Um, I think the ARS has been sort of that middle ground that we've found over recent years to get that boost in density that we so badly need.

But I would encourage you at this time not to um do a whole lot with changing zoning districts uh until the comprehensive plan is complete, or at least nearer to complete.

How's that?

We we definitely can start working on them as we get closer to the end, but it should come out of that process.

Thank you.

Uh Ms.

Hall.

I was just gonna ask you to repeat um Director Lawhorn what you said about the Atlanta Drive rezone.

I didn't catch a first part of that.

Um go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

So um time back, uh the assembly voted for uh a rezone on the corner of Atlanta Drive and Mendenhall Loop Road.

And that was uh much similar to the one you heard earlier.

It didn't fit the comp plan, it didn't match um the assembly found in that instance that it did, and so it was changed to light commercial, and it has still been vacant today.

And I think the last time it was permitted was 2012, maybe somewhere around there.

Uh and so it was permitted for about 22 uh townhouse style um condos.

Go ahead.

So do you feel like it would have had a better chance of being developed if it had remained D18?

Or was that what it was before?

Go ahead, Director Lawrence.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I believe it was multifamily um assembly member hall.

I'm not sure of exactly what it may have been before.

I can't say truly if it would have been developed had it stayed a different way, but changing to light commercial hasn't developed housing on it.

All right, I'm gonna hop in here.

Um so you said with our last one um with light commercial since they're the plan was residential, it could be approved with director signature.

Since this is miss mixed use, is that the same thing, or will it have to go through a conditional use process?

Um thank you, madam mayor.

Again, it depends if it's strictly housing and they're meeting density, then it would not require planning commission approval.

Uh if it's depending on the uses, um, and again, you'd have we'd have to go back to the table of permissible uses and see if it is only a one, that would mean it's my approval.

If it's a three, it would go to the planning commission.

So it depends on the proposal that they would bring forth and the size of it.

Okay, and the follow-up is that if they did a junkyard or something like that, I'm assuming it would have to go through conditional use permit.

Um through you, Madam Mayor, that one wouldn't get through the door because it's not permissible for a junkyard.

Thank you.

Just checking.

Um, I saw Mr.

Burks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Does the uh going from D18 to light commercial, does that uh change the assessed value at all?

Through you, Madam Mayor, I can't speak to that, Mr.

Brooks.

Okay, anything further.

Okay, we will be kind to Ms.

Adgison and we will go to Mr.

Steininger for a motion.

All right, I move the assembly adopt ordinance 2026 06 and ask for unanimous consent.

Any objections, Mr.

Smith.

Thanks, Madam Mayor.

Um the first one was hard for me.

This one's much easier.

Um we know we can't condition a development based on a change in zoning.

And now we are taking what was our highest residential zoning district and now allowing a much broader myriad of use, um, which many, many non-residential uses.

I believe the applicants that this is what they're going for.

Um I remain I'm I'm not certain why 91 units would work.

I would love more too, but 91 would be pretty good there.

Um and now if we move this to light commercial, there's a chance that there's no housing at all in four acres of D18.

Don't lead to any housing development.

So um that's one reason, and my probably my main reason for opposing the zoning change.

Thank you.

Uh any more, any more objection.

Uh Ms.

Wall.

I'm gonna speak in support.

Um I very much agree with Mr.

Smith.

And you know, and I do think that, but I do think this is a hard one too, because I think that protecting our housing lots is not going to result in housing.

Um, as Ms.

Hughes Candy said, you know, we can zone things how we want, and we don't have control over what people actually build there.

And so I would say if we've got a chance that this might make a project pencil out, I'm willing to take it.

I know that means no housing might be built there, but no housing will likely built there if we do nothing.

Um, so um, I'm willing to provide that flexibility.

It's next to a light commercial, so I don't feel like it's you know changing the the character of of the neighborhood.

Um I have concerns that still nothing will be built there, but to me it's a bit more flexible.

It's trying something in a desperate time.

Thanks.

Uh Ms.

Hughes Canys, do you feel compelled to speak?

I could uh first I thought you raising your hand and then you stopped.

Touching my mouth.

Okay.

Um thank you, Madam Mayor.

No, I would I'll say that I would agree with many of Ms.

Well's points.

Uh there you go.

So we have a motion and objection.

Okay, don't be lifting your pens or anything unless you don't be moving.

Madam, yeah, Madam Mayor, do you want to speak to?

Ms.

Hall, go ahead.

Yeah.

And and I agree with Mr.

Smith on this one.

I I think you know, we've got our high residential zoning.

Um ready, and you know, this assures that it will remain housing.

And so for that reason, I will also support the objection.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Back to we have a motion and oh Ms.

Hughes Scannys, thank you, Adam.

Now I would like to speak.

Um, I realized what am I doing?

Not speaking and trying to convince you all.

I have no idea what's in your heads.

And Ms.

Hall just gives me a great example.

I don't know what's in her head.

I would I am going to support this rezone, and I would urge you to support this rezone.

And I will say it it really strikes me to my core hearing um at Director Lahorn does a great job asking answering our please read a crystal ball and do would this make it happen, director?

And and if we hadn't done that, would that have made it happen?

Um, and answers those.

The road to development is long.

It is expensive, it is heartbreaking.

There are so many parcels all over the Juno that I just wish were developed, but they're not because it's hard and it's expensive.

And I think um Mr.

Smith's comments are true and give me pause.

And you know, every com every decision's a hard decision for me.

Um, but I do see that there is still room to build housing on uh light commercial, and I know that that is what is needed right now in this market.

So I think that is what is going to drive people's decisions more than anything.

Is it needed?

Will people pay for it?

And can the person providing it figure out a way to fill that capital stack that is so impossible to fill if you are trying to develop housing or anything else?

So at this point, I am going to try to meet again.

I understand where the department and planning commission were coming from, but I am going to try to provide some flexibility at the policy level to meet the applicant where they were at.

So I would urge you to join me in supporting it.

Thank you, Ms.

Hughes Canis.

We have a motion and objection.

Please call the roll.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

For ordinance 2026-06, the rezone of 7170 Glacier Highway from D18 to light commercial.

Mr.

Steinger.

Yes.

Ms.

Hall.

No.

Deputy Mayor Smith.

No.

Mr.

Brooks.

Yes.

Ms.

Adkisson.

Yes.

Mr.

Kelly.

No.

Ms.

Wall.

Yes.

Ms.

Hughes Scandis.

Yes.

Madam Mayor.

Yes.

Motion carries with six yes and three nays.

All right.

Um, Madam Attorney.

I don't believe we are have to stop at 10.

I believe or 11 o'clock is still our time, or do we need to extend our time?

You need to extend your time.

You changed your end.

Okay.

I'm just checking.

Um, I think the rest of it will go fairly quickly.

So, Mr.

Smith, I'll entertain a motion.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move to extend the meeting until 10 20.

Yes.

Try we can keep extending if we have to.

Yes.

So with that, thank you all for your time.

And sorry that took so long.

Um, we are at item number five, Madam Clark.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordnance 2026-09, an ordinance authorizing the port director to negotiate and execu and execute a lease of Alaska Thailand survey number 857 for the purpose of waterfront commercial activity.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This lease is for a small sliver of property that Petra 49 currently leases and currently occupies, but they need to renegotiate the lease to uh provide financing for their dock project.

Um I recommend you take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Uh thank you, Madam Manager.

Folks, could we have you talk outside the room?

Thank you.

Um so we'll bring it back to the assembly.

I'm at Ms.

Hall.

I move ordinance 2026-09 and ask for unanimous consent.

Any objection?

See none.

Um that motion is approved.

Uh item six, madam clerk.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Ordinance 2025-01, lowercase B, uppercase S, an ordinance appropriating 800,000 to the manager for a grant to Clinkett Hyda Regional Housing Authority for the Peterson Hill Phase 1B project.

Funding provided by the Affordable Housing Fund.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This appropriates uh $800,000 to Klink and Heida for their uh work on Peterson Hill.

They've made some great progress lately.

I encourage you to go out there.

There's three uh new structures.

So I recommend you take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Uh thank you, Madam Manager.

There's nobody signed up to testify on this.

So we will go to the assembly, Mr.

Kelly.

I move that the assembly adopt ordinance 2025-01, lowercase B, uppercase S, and ask for unanimous consent.

Any objection?

Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

And it's for the purpose of a question.

Uh can you tell us how and this would be for the manager, I think.

Can you tell us how uh much below bear market value we had sold the land to them for?

Um, I believe we gave them the land with conditions that they build uh within a certain time frame, which they have met.

I don't think you answered his question.

No, no, no.

She did she did.

I did do have a follow-up though.

All the way below fair market value.

Assemblymember follow-up.

What?

So you said they have three up right now.

Do you what is the timeline for these other six uh the other 13 units then?

I guess I would have to bring up uh Mr.

Shambore to answer those detailed questions.

Thank you, Scott Schomboard planning manager.

Uh so through the mayor.

So in their application, uh Clinkett Hyder Regional Housing Authority is looking to put 16 single family home ownership homes at 80% AMI or below within three years.

Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

While we have Mr.

Chamber, I have one question that applies to lots of these.

Is there why does it take so long for this to get to the assembly?

You know, from the application process.

And is there and is there anything we can do we can do to make that step between the application process and us approving this final thing faster?

Can we get, you know, can we get out of the way or is there something we can do?

Through the mayor as respectfully as possible.

I encourage everyone in this room, everyone in this community to follow the process that's established with the Adjuno Affordable Housing Fund and the timeline and details that are on website since five years ago.

So following process, getting the recommendations to the appropriate committee.

Committee reads their packet, understands what's coming in front of them, gets it to the next step, and you know, the goal is within six months of the program being established.

They have contracts or loans in their hands in December.

It's all on the website.

Uh Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Uh is there any um stipulations if the units aren't built within the three-year period?

Uh through the mayor.

Um, in all of the grant agreement contracts uh for all of the nonprofit organizations.

Uh the there's an annual report uh that is coming in April, and that goes into the overall affordable housing fund annual report.

Uh and it is for three years, but it could also be extended with manager approval.

Any further questions?

Any objection to the motion.

See no objection that uh is so moved.

Item number seven, madam clerk.

Thank you, madam mayor.

Ordinance 2025-01 lowercase B, uppercase T, an ordinance appropriating 250,000 to the manager for a grant to Clinken Hyda Regional Housing Authority.

I apologize, I cannot pronounce that very well.

Can anyone help me with that?

Thank you.

Funding provided by the affordable housing fund.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

Uh this ordinance appropriates 250,000 for new housing, five new units in North Douglas.

Seats can do.

And I recommend you uh uh introduce I recommend you um pass.

I'm sorry, the recommendation is not my normal recommendation.

I recommend you take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Uh thank you for that.

Uh since we have nobody signed up for this ordinance, so we'll bring it to the assembly, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move that the assembly adopt ordinance 2025-01BT and ask for unanimous consent.

Was there any objection?

Uh seeing none that ordinance passes.

Um number eight, we've removed.

So we're moving on to number nine.

Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordinance 2025-01, lowercase B, uppercase V, an ordinance appropriating up to 900,000 to the manager for a loan to Brave Enterprises LLC.

Funding provided by the Affordable Housing Fund.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This ordinance appropriates $900,000 for the construction of new housing in downtown Juneau.

18 units will be 80% or less of area meeting income.

And I recommend the assembly take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Uh thank you, Madam Manager.

Since there's no public assigned up for this, we will go to the assembly.

We're back to you, Miss Euscandies.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move that the assembly adopt ordinance 2025-01B, and I ask for unanimous consent.

Any objection, Mr.

Brooks.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

For the purpose of a question, do you know what the uh the timeline on their project would be?

Mr.

Chongbo.

So through the mayor, uh uh according, I'd have to go read their uh their packet, but we do have Dave D'Amano, who's the developer uh in the audience.

You want may want to answer that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chomber.

For the record uh developer in the audience said two years.

Thank you, Ms.

Hughes Scandis.

So um I'm assuming you uh are you maintaining your objection, Mr.

Brooks.

I remove my objection.

All right, any further objection?

Seeing none of that ordinance passes.

Um item number 10, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Ordinance 2025-01, lowercase B, uppercase W, an ordinance appropriating up to 200,000 to the manager for a loan to Southeast Endeavors LLC.

Funding provided by the Affordable Housing Fund.

Uh, thank you, Madam Clerk.

And do we still have Mr.

Cantola online if we need to ask him questions?

Why she's looking, madam manager.

Thank you.

This ordinance appropriates 200,000 for a loan.

Uh to uh develop a fourplex in Juneau to Southeast Endeavors, and these units will be um 80% or less of area meeting income.

I recommend you take public testimony and adopt this ordinance.

Thank you, Madam Manager.

Okay, and we do have the developer online if we have questions for him.

Um Mr.

Cantola.

I don't know.

I don't know what your question is, Ms.

Wall.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I don't have questions for him, but uh, I feel like our process usually is that we only ask people questions if they have made public testimony.

So if there are folks who have questions, I would encourage them to suggest that you make public testimony.

I'm not trying to split hairs.

I sorry, I was trying to make it easier for people to ask questions if they wanted to.

Well, let's see if we have any questions for him first.

Oh, excuse me.

Since there's no public testimony, we'll go back to the assembly.

Uh Ms.

Wall.

Okay.

Um, Mr.

Cantola, do you have testimony tonight?

And if you do, please state your name and area town you live in for the record, and you have two minutes.

Yeah, can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Okay, my name is Sean Cantola.

Uh, I live in the valley.

Um, this project is for four units, as they mentioned.

I believe there might have been a slight error in there that it was two units that were gonna be for the 80 percent, not all four was that was what was in the application.

Um the project is already underway.

The um the building is mostly complete.

We've got it sheetrock phase and are doing flooring and cabinets right now.

Um, so it should be done here within the next couple of months.

Uh any questions?

How many units total are there?

Four units total.

Okay, and two of them are 80% or less AMI.

Correct.

Okay.

Any further questions?

Mr.

Smith.

Thank you.

I guess okay, I just wanted to sync it's so it it means that the ordinance is correct, and there's just maybe a typo in the in the manager's report.

Okay, thank you very much.

I we all good over there, Madam Manager.

Okay.

Uh Ms.

Wall, you had your hand up.

Or were you gonna move this ordinance?

Just to move the ordinance.

Sorry.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Um, I move the assembly adopt ordinance 2025 01BW and ask for unanimous consent.

Any objection?

Seeing none, that ordinance passes.

Thank you, Mr.

Cantola, for being here.

It was a long night.

Um, so moving on, we have unfinished business assembly goals.

Um we need any staff or should we just go to Mr.

Smith for an ordinance or a motion?

The only thing I want to point out is that in the the version in your packet, there was an assembly goal that did not get uh the cell did not get justified, so we um we fixed that, and that's in your supplemental materials.

Uh thank you.

So make sure you're looking at your red folder for that.

Um Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I move that the assembly adopt the presented assembly goals for 2026.

Any objection, Mr.

Brooks.

I'd like to object just because we didn't iron out the language on one of the goals.

Do you have a recommended uh rewrite?

Yes, for uh number one housing and uh it would be the second from the bottom says to continue to pursue zoning amendments that support an increase and incremental infill development opportunities.

I would like to amend that to say continue to pursue and implement zoning amendments that support an increase in property ownership and incremental infill development opportunities.

Okay, say that one more time.

Thanks.

Yes, I I would like it to be amended to continue to continue to pursue and implement zoning amendments that support an increase in property ownership and incremental infill development opportunities, and I can speak to that.

Yes.

Uh the way it's worded now, just uh to me appears to be a continuation of making opportunities for already the most uh capable financially individuals in the community and having a goal to focus on a broader range of property ownership can be more encompassing to all demographics of the community.

Thank you for that.

So we have an amendment.

Do we have objection?

Seeing none, that amendment passes.

So we have assembly goal as amended, Mr.

Smith.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I'd like to object for the purposes of an amendment, the goals.

Go ahead.

Goal for community wellness and public safety, where it says June is a safe and welcoming for all citizens.

I've been struggling where to put in the word affordable that applies more to housing.

I had looked at it under the economic development goal.

I just thought this might be a good spot to put in the word affordable.

Um so that so I'm I'd like to add so it's Juno is safe, comma, affordable and welcoming for all citizens.

Um it's aspirational, it's loose, if you may.

Um sorry.

That was a joke, I'm sorry.

Um and anyway, just to just to I think we all consider affordability as we're doing many of the things we do.

We can only do so much to affect affordability, but um anyway, it uh I would like to work that into a goal.

So that is the best spot I found.

So we have amendment number two.

Any objection.

That's all for the purpose of a question.

Uh so you want to add affordable under the community wellness and public safety goal?

Yes.

As you said, it was hard to figure out a place to put it in.

You talked to me earlier.

So Jenno is safe, affordable, and welcoming for all citizens.

I remove my objection.

All right.

Um, so on the second amendment, uh any objection.

See none that second amendment passes, Mr.

Steiniger.

Um, on the goals for one housing to economic development and three sustainable budget and organization.

Um, it still uses the word usher, and I believe it should be N Sure, E N.

So I I moved to make that.

We will just call that a typo and correct that typo.

All right, we have the goals as amended.

Any objection?

Seeing none, our goals are passed.

Let's work on our goals.

Um, so we're just uh next we have new business.

Uh Madam Clerk, item one.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

ATT request for a communication tower lease on CBJ property located at Diamond Park.

Thank you, Madam Clerk, Madam Manager.

Thank you.

This approves a lease for communications tower at Diamond Park uh replacement tower.

It's 110 feet foot replacement light pole and associated equipment.

Uh it's been heard by the lands committee, and I recommend uh I'm so sorry, you guys.

It is past my bedtime.

Uh you heard it at the January 26th Lands Committee meeting, and uh we are requesting a motion of support to further consider this proposal by negotiating directly with the original proposer.

Uh thank you, madam manager.

Um nobody has signed up to testify this, so we'll bring it back to the assembly and where I am.

Mr.

Brooks, I think.

Do you move this, please?

Thank you, madam mayor.

I uh make a motion of support.

Yeah, make a motion of support to further consider this proposal through direct negotiations between the city manager and the original proposal and ask for unanimous consent.

Thank you, Mr.

Brooks.