I don't know if it's on or not.

Okay.

Good evening, everyone.

I'd like to call to order the planning commission meeting of today, Monday, August 25th, 2025.

Iris, would you please roll uh call call the roll?

Mitchell?

Here.

Najok.

Here.

Moreno?

Here.

Guinea?

Here.

Here.

Twing?

Bruce?

Here.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Iris.

Moving on to item number three on tonight's agenda.

City council update.

Iris, do we have city council liaison on the phone?

Item number four is approval, item 4.1, excuse me, is approval of the minutes from last meeting, um, August 11th, 2025, a copy of which was distributed to the commissioners beforehand.

Commissioners, does anyone have any comments or questions or revisions to the minutes as they are proposed?

Okay, I see none.

Any anyone want to make a motion?

Motion to approve.

Second.

I'll second the motion to approve the meeting minutes as written.

Okay, thank you.

All those in favor, aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Anyone oppose or abstain?

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Item number five tonight's agenda is uh the public comment section.

Uh this is to allow um community members present to uh present information or raise an issue, not on tonight's hearing or agenda, uh excuse me, not on tonight's agenda.

Iris, do we have anyone wishing to give testimony?

No.

Thank you.

Moving right along, item number six, the commission for citizen involvement general updates.

I don't think there were any uh updates for this week that I saw come through.

So that'll bring us to item number 7.1 on the agenda.

It is uh the work session for the foothills district plan update.

This is PP25-0005, and this is uh work session number three.

Uh I'll turn it over to uh long-range planning manager, Mr.

Olson.

Thank you, Chair Mitchell.

Uh it is working.

Okay.

That's good.

I can't can't tell by the button color.

Uh so yeah, we're here to present to you.

Um, this is our I think our second official sort of work session dedicated to uh this project, um at least you know, outside of the realm of the HPS, which it is somewhat related.

Um, but really we've come a little bit of a um distance in terms of putting together a deliverable.

Um we have um sort of just made some progress over the summer with this project in terms of being able to uh bring a consultant on board and get them under contract and starting to get moving on project meetings and some deliverables to go out and talk about with the general public.

So the first of those is uh public involvement strategy.

Um so we've put together some um a document with some ideas about our public involvement strategy for this larger planning effort.

Um and when I say we, I guess I'm talking uh about the project team, so it includes more than just myself, of course.

We have both uh Will and Jason from our consulting um team here at uh first 40 feet.

So I don't know, Will and Jason, if you want to give a brief introduction.

Yeah, thank you so much.

I can hear you this fine.

There we go.

Thanks.

Can you hear me?

Okay, good.

Thank you for having us.

I appreciate it.

This is uh really great kickoff just introducing us and meeting you, and we're gonna be meeting a lot and seeing a lot of you, so we're excited about that.

Um my name is Will Grimm with First 40 Feet.

I'm a principal and owner of the of the of First 40 feet uh urban design architecture planning um out of Portland.

We're excited about this project.

We appreciate the opportunity.

Wanted to give you an update uh on what the work that we've been doing thus far.

Not too much um really um I mean in coming up with a plan for the engagement really has been our focus and because input and insight from the community is is high high priority here.

I think it's there's lots of lots of time given for that, what we call the discovery phase of of just learning as much as we can.

Um so love to give you an update here.

Uh we have a ways to go before we actually start putting pen to paper, but we we're we're extroverts.

We love to talk to people, so we're gonna be doing a lot of that uh in the next month, two, three months, four months maybe.

I think so.

Um I want to introduce the team before I hand it over to uh Jason.

First 40 feet, we're the prime consultant, mainly uh managing the urban design and plan.

ACO Northwest is our economic consultant.

They're going to be helping us with financial feasibility as well.

Apex engineering.

They'll be doing infrastructure work, existing conditions analysis, et cetera, coordinating with the wastewater treatment facility as well with Jacobs.

The DHM, you probably know them.

They're in Lake Oswego.

They're based out of here.

They are upholsters.

They're going to do be doing four uh focus groups and also surveys as well.

They actually get started soon, very soon within the next week.

They're going to be looking for an audience to have discussions with.

And we have Booking Group, who will be helping us with the post amendments, a post the code, post plan.

That doesn't really happen until maybe 11 months out, but they will be involved in the process day one.

So we want them involved so they know where we're headed here.

DCW will be doing cost estimating.

So that's the team.

I'm going to hand it over to Jason.

Great.

Thank you.

I'm Jason Graff, also with First 40 Feet principal.

I've been working long enough in Portland that I've engaged the East End redevelopment planning effort and some of the work on Avenue A.

And so it's great actually to see the foothills coming full circle.

I know you did a ton of work in 2012, and you know, things have a way of getting in the way as they often do.

And you know, some shifts in movements around the property of have kind of set up a new opportunity.

And I think we're really excited to have a chance to be a part of that.

So it's super exciting that we're going to be working with you on this plan update and creating this framework plan, which is really what we're going to talk about, engagement around the creation of that update document and the time frame that it's going to take to do that, a series of milestones that we've sort of charted out that we're going to try and engage folks.

And what I'll basically be showing you is sort of our guidebook.

Like this is these are kind of the rules we've established for engagement and how we're going to engage people and how we communicate about the project.

And so there's something that we can refer to and be beholden to as we move through the process.

And we'll be working with groups oriented around these colors as sort of affected stakeholders that we need to help with some decision making.

So nothing more than that at the moment, but a nice little colored map for us to all look at.

So I mentioned this engagement plan is really our guidebook, and we have some sort of rules and the purpose of the engagement.

You know, about this being a community project, and for it to be a community project, it means we need to hear the voices of the people who are not only directly impacted, but also people who use this space in this place.

I mean, the park rests along the edge of the waterfront.

And so you have users, you have people who are directly affected on site, but you also have the community who are going to move through this space, who are going to be going to this treasured environment, and that thing in between is going to be important to them too.

So understanding sort of the values across a broader spectrum helps us to begin to design based on those values, knowing that different folks have different skin in the game and decision making sort of powers, and we need to understand what those roles are.

But in the end, we're really trying to create a collective idea about where the foothills can go.

And so that means taking a variety of different interests and trying to translate that back as like a shared community vision.

And that's sort of how you begin things.

Like we're striving to be this thing, and there's probably some guiding principles that are going to help us achieve that.

And so we use those as sort of touchstones as we develop concepts, as we refine those, looking back and make sure that we're sort of matching those value statements and that we're thinking about those critical guiding principles that might get us to this great thing.

But again, it's understanding the spectrum of who you need to reach out to, but you need to be flexible on how you do it in a great way as to meet people where they are.

And so that is a part of this inclusive and equitable outreach and engagement process.

The other is being consistent and transparent.

So what information information we share on the website or in a handout or in a newsletter should be the same information we share at a public meeting or a workshop or an open house, so that everyone is getting the same information that when you go to different groups, you're generally asking the same questions that you asked of the other groups.

So you build that continuity, you build that consistency, and hopefully build some transparency around the conversations that you're having with a broad network of groups.

And then, of course, how are you using the information?

And are you presenting it back in a way that's illustrating that you are using the feedback that you're hearing from the community and you can show you know where those impact moments are occurring?

Again, we're not building consensus around a plan here.

In a lot of respects, you're building consent and people accepting that the process has value and they feel that it's fair enough.

And I think that's the best we can probably do in a process like this.

Our objectives, clear communication, number one, getting that messaging right from the beginning is really important.

That'll kind of start with the website and then sort of how we do outreach efforts, but keeping it simple, keeping it clear and keeping that message on point throughout the process, because what I say sort of on day one is going to continue on and on, and just staying within that message is really important.

The also is the other thing is the public, these processes go over a year's time, and geez, who has time to stay involved in that.

But you need progress updates.

You need a place where you can go and get updated information, be able to look at material that's already been created.

So it's important that we do that.

The website's going to be a great landing spot for us to create those progress updates and show information that's already been generated for folks who might want to review that as we move along in the process.

The other is the assembly of a variety of different groups that are helping us with decision making.

One is a citizens advisory committee, and Eric will give you some background information on that, which has been a pretty big effort to create that group, as well as a technical advisory committee.

But the hope is that they are so directly involved in the process that they become ambassadors and they become a voice to the project to their networks and their circles, and that's really the value of creating a citizen advisory committee and a technical advisory committee because they can help play that role.

So as we have conversations with them, part of our discussion is you know, you're sort of a player on the team here, and it's great if you can get out to your networks and share what we're doing.

The idea is transparency and openness and having a place for information and consistency will give us some buy-in and accountability.

So the engagement plan is setting some high standards, but it gives us a reference to try and meet those.

So the process extended out over you know about a year's time, really breaks up into three sort of key buckets.

Project initiation is really this discovery that Will mentioned.

It's about understanding the sort of existing inventory and analysis.

A lot of work done from 2012, so it's a little bit of catch up, but then we have some new things that we're we're needing to understand.

The wastewater treatment facility is a great example of that.

Um, and as we gather that information, that sort of creates a baseline for us to then look at designs and alternatives.

But before we even get there, we need to have a discussion with the community about what they value on this acreage and with these moving pieces and parts.

What are we trying to assemble here?

And we use the existing analysis to sort of give us a threshold of sort of what we can think about in terms of change, and then give people the opportunity to identify what that change might be or best look like, or what their biggest fears are or greatest hopes.

This allows us then to establish that vision early on, establish some guiding principles, and then we can put pen to paper.

But also that analysis is giving us opportunities to understand where real challenges are.

They may be geographic, topographic, they may be related to utilities such as PGE and other groups.

And so there's going to be certain things that sort of manipulate where things can happen, how we can access the site, for instance, huge issue to uncover.

So we're working through those things at the same time, we're trying to get information from folks about what they'd like to see.

So that helps us to understand just how far we can go with things.

So we can sort of have a checks and balances with our existing conditions in unison with understanding these values.

The result of gathering that information about values is leads us into this vision statement, guiding principles, and then we can move into concepts.

So we basically take the information we learn from our inventory and analysis and what we hear from the community, create opportunities and challenges summary, like this is it.

This is like we now have the baseline for how we can begin our work because we physically know what the challenges are and we generally know what the community values are.

So the opportunities and challenges gives us that summary, allows us to move to the next milestone, which is concept plan alternatives, looking at land use and transportation concepts, refining those, and then moving into the framework plans.

So I think I sat on one of those a little too long, but I'll move on a little bit quicker here.

What it means is across the framework plan, there's really sort of four or five key milestones.

The engagement plan we're we're in now, generating that effort and understanding who our stakeholders are, and then moving into each of those milestones.

Opportunities and constraints being one, looking at concept alternatives, and then refinements of those.

That really is what gets us to that draft framework plan that will come not only to you all but also to city council and the community.

So those are our key milestones.

As we're in that opportunities and constraints, I talked a bit about what we're learning in terms of existing conditions, but we're ramping up the opportunities and constraints is going to have a period where we're reconnecting the community with the project.

The fact that it's restarting, promote awareness about that the plan is continuing.

It's not starting from scratch, but there are some changes.

We want to share the goals and objectives.

We want to, as I mentioned, confirm values and build a system for our engagement.

So this first phase, we're going to learn a lot about how we do outreach, how well we do it, the venues in which we can do engagement, and that'll get better and refined.

But it's kind of building the machine in the first round.

So we'll we know we'll get better over time and we'll look back at what we're doing in previous areas of engagement to get better in that as we move in along the project.

Because getting into the concept level plan of alternatives is going to be an interesting phase.

I typically, I think we see the opportunities and challenges as kind of like the wedding phase where people are like sort of excited, a little bit nervous, but they're not the pitchforks aren't out yet.

Everyone still feels like, you know, maybe we can we can live with this other family.

But once we come back with concepts and alternatives and things begin to look and feel real, is really where we begin to see some sort of shifts in behavior around values or what folks might want to see or not see.

And we know that's kind of the trickiest part.

And as you work through that concept level into getting into some design refinement, there's there's really a lot of work there.

And there's going to be some massaging and working with a variety of different groups to, you know, either keep them close or you know, try to keep it manageable.

So we're we're pretty wide-eyed about what we're getting into.

Um, the engagement plan helps us to you know to have some footing to move forward in that process.

Um schematic level, you know, that's refinement.

That's when we get a plan that we're feeling pretty confident about, and then we can start building the actual document that you would adopt and looking at what are those post-code changes are likely to be, so people are sort of clear what what areas of the code are likely to be addressed, or an overlay or whatever that process would be.

So it's not like we've done the plan, now we're gonna go study code amendments.

We're we've been learning through the process, and we'll we'll have a general outline of the direction we're going around code.

So that'll be great for you all because you're gonna you know weigh in pretty heavily on that piece.

And then, of course, the framework plan itself, that's gonna be an iterative process.

Um, you know, we're gonna have a review draft, we're gonna run that through our CAC, our TACs, or Citizen Advisory Committee, Technical Advisory Committee, you as the planning commission, city council, and the Laura or renewal group.

So there's gonna be a lot a lot of touch points, you know, once we have that document that's ready for for people, uh, prime time, and then it's gonna run through a variety of different circles before it's finalized.

Um, our outreach methods, we're we're sort of working through that with Madison and with the city and understanding what tools you have now.

So the project website we know is going to be there'll be a landing page for this project.

Um, you have social media, newsletters, we're learning about sort of key touch points in the community when you you typically have engagement and the broader community engagement and how that plays out.

So we're trying to figure out how we fit in to sort of your normal cycles because that's a heck of a lot easier for staff if we're we're running in systems that are already up and running.

It can be simpler, quicker.

The community is kind of used to that rhythm.

So we're figuring that out.

Um, and it's looking good so far.

So I think we're we're good, we're excited about that.

There's gonna be a variety of different ways that we gather information.

So the engagement plan says here's a bucket of tools that you might be using surveys, meetings one-on-one, pop-ups, regular community events where you're showing up more as sort of open house for information style, and we'll tailor those for each specific milestone of the engagement, and they may change and shift from one to another.

We'll definitely work to build a coalition of community liaisons who are getting the word out, not just through staff and typical city outreach methods, but working through channels that we develop throughout the process.

And I mentioned the community advisory committee, the technical advisory committee, you all as the planning commission.

They're sitting in the room and looking at concepts and opportunities and constraints and challenges and and we're gathering feedback from them on the direction we're going or things that we need to look at that we're missing.

So they kind of have a special seat at the table so to speak you all as a planning commission as well are going to have those moments of weighing in deeply and intently on the project and of course city council who will be adopting this and and Laura also are part of that decision making process.

And so our initial messaging and this is just a summary we've created sort of three sort of buckets of how we talk about the project and we're working through that with Madison and others but you know we're we're trying to create a neighborhood here and an amazing neighborhood on the river.

I mean it's absolutely stunning we looked at that earlier aerial and I mean I've been here time and time again and this idea of Avenue A coming through and reaching the river is like I think a moment for anyone whether you've lived in Lake Oswego or you've lived in this area you've wanted to see that moment.

Like it's almost like you can't wait for those low hung one story buildings right at Avenue A to just kind of part ways and you see the river it's so exciting.

Being down in the park and I've done it a few times this summer I brought my kids down here that's just another piece that you know I live in Portland and we just don't have that experience.

We don't go down to the river.

We don't dip our feet in the water very often and so this is it's really special.

So part of the messaging is how awesome this place is how incredible this neighborhood could be and other elements we are building on past work new opportunities we do want to welcome as many voices as Will says we're we're happy to talk to anyone anywhere and the more we talk the more we learn and the more we can I think contribute to something special and it will come down to the community values and we we do need to lean into that what are what are people looking for what is sort of bearable in their consciousness and you know we're going to tap into that there'll be a little pushing and pulling but I think that's pretty normal and I think if we can lean into what people value that's where we can we can come back and we can make some resolution we can understand trade offs but if we're clear about where we think we want to go that really helps with the conversation so I will stop now and open it up to you all I think that's the end.

I know Eric could definitely give you an update on the community advisory committee if that's a key topic.

Yeah thank you related to uh community engagement so I'll just really quickly um add on to Jason's uh presentation here just a really brief update so we are um planning to bring a resolution to the city council next week next Tuesday the second of September to appoint members to the community advisory committee so um as we decided uh as a planning commission at least at our last meeting uh the representative from the commission will be Commissioner Najak um but the other members are sort of um going to be determined I I know the information but I can't share yet because it's not public yet so I just will keep it to myself but we have 15 members um including two members under the age of 18 uh two nonvoting members Rachel um or Commissioner Nodok as well as um mayor buck will likely be that's I guess that's a little bit of a sneak peek at who the city council representative is but um so it's it's not exactly a surprise.

And yeah so we have two nonvoting representatives as well as um folks you know representing backgrounds like sustainability um sort of transportation or infrastructure uh expertise urban design planning landscape architecture um these types of fields also um residents of the foothills neighborhood a representative from the neighborhood chairs committee um I think that covers it actually so I'm not gonna go on for too much but so we're gonna have 15 folks on there and we're excited about um the quality of candidates that we receive through that uh solicitation and um on the uh with respect to the technical advisory committee um we are also getting to a point really close to when we can um formally establish that but just trying to sort of um cover all the bases there's a lot of folks that you just sort of get further into exercise and realize we should really reach out to them so it's just we don't want to leave anybody out.

So we have some good representation on that technical advisory committee as well, representative from the trolley consortium, things of that nature.

So anyway, that's something that will likely come to City Council later in September, aiming for September 16th.

But the overarching message here is that we want to hit the ground running pretty quickly with these committees.

And so with that, I guess we can formally, I guess, stop the presentation and open it up for questions.

I have a quick question.

Absolutely.

That is the one thing that I did not mention that, of course, I left out.

But yes, we will have somebody as per the resolution that will come with that background.

Yes.

And to sort of follow up on Deana's question, uh, Commissioner Moreno, how will the city ensure that underrepresented groups, people like youth, low-income households and renters are engaged in this process?

Absolutely.

We're we're gonna go through what we call um our stakeholder identification.

And we're gonna we create this matrix of we've already kind of done this.

We've created an iterative or we've created an interim list of everyone we need to engage with.

And I we've been asking the question about you know who are additional groups that typically aren't a part of the process that we need to reach out to.

So we've kind of got a short list of that.

We're gonna work through kind of refining what we think that those that target group is, and then we move into what's the method of engaging that group.

Is it high level?

Is it one-on-one?

And so we'll we'll work, and it may be a variety of different ways.

I mean, there may be a list of sort of three primary that we focus on.

It could be youth, it could be around housing, it could be another topic, which we haven't refined, but the meetings will be set specific to those stakeholders.

So we're not predetermining there's one way to engage everyone, we'll we'll tailor it to the right group and extend it over the length, you know, the process that it makes sense.

Um we have an interesting thing with DHM, and this is kind of moving away from your question.

But I think as I try to, you know, one of the things you always try to get ahead of is sort of what's the pulse of the community around foothills and the issues that might inherently be here, and or the things that people really want, because wonderful to know things you can build off of.

And so, how do you get that pulse?

How do you reach out to the just the broader community to sort of understand what what they're thinking about foothills?

DHM has been sort of the tool that we we thought would be great to bring in.

They have experience doing that.

Um, and but we haven't figured out yet when we want to use them.

Sort of in my mind, it's like let's do it early.

Let's like get a really good feel for generally, especially if it's the negative side, what people are sort of kind of most afraid of or fearful about the project, what the outcome that just is not going to be palatable for a lot of people.

Um, and then maybe use them again once we've got into to concepts or maybe concepts refinements to sort of see like we got over the hump, that really hard question that we showed you some stuff and you hate it, but we've refined it and then see what the pulse is of the broader community.

So that's kind of way out there.

Um, but I think it it helps us guide the overall process, do your point about specific focus groups.

We're we're trying to tailor to find out who they are and where we're gonna get some great feedback from that core group that we've got.

Having some young people on the Yeah, we have um yeah, two positions that we're making space for.

We found that that's just generally a best practice not to have the under 18 members on their own have somebody to kind of all the best ideas.

I mean really, yeah.

It affects them more than us.

Oh, yeah, they're very honest.

Um I was just gonna mention also we we you know, you might have noticed in the community or when the public involvement strategy, the draft, you know, we do have sort of uh tables that show ideas for ways that we could engage different populations and just kind of um you know, there is kind of a toolkit, if you will, that first 40 feet employees on a lot of their projects, but those can be really specifically catered.

So I think once we start to actually um you know target in on those communities, we can um do this more, but just um initially we were thinking that um targeted outreach kind of going out and tabling uh different events that are in the public to the extent that we still can, sort of with within our um within this fall period that we're working before the holidays.

Um, but also yeah, just kind of acknowledging that different community members have different amounts of commitment they get that they can sort of provide to this work and trying to meet them where they're at.

That kind of leads to another question I had about you mentioned providing like regular progress updates on the website.

This is gonna be a two-year plus long project.

So maintaining that community engagement might be tough for that whole two years.

In addition to the progress updates on the website, what other tools or resources do you plan to implement to maintain that community engagement over that lengthy kind of two-year study period?

Yeah, I mean, uh initially it's newsletters and things that are that are normally sort of going out to groups.

I think if we can if we start building a network, um, we can we can help push information through you know, folks who can reach out to other communities.

And it may be that we need a touch point to look at like let's say there is a gap in a period of time, or we felt like we haven't had great response in some of the engagement we've done, or we've done a few pop-ups in open houses, but again, we're we're not seeing a lot.

Yeah, and it's like yeah, let's think about something that we can interject into the process.

I don't know what that is, but we're we're pretty pragmatic.

We don't we don't like things to go too dormant ourselves.

Um we've been doing things um using QR codes, um, oddly enough, placing them.

This is the project on the pavement.

People are walking by there getting ice cream at salt and straw, which most people are here till nine or ten, and they're sitting there.

It's just great places to get people.

And if you can update the information and it's a quick hit and download for them, those kind of things can actually do pretty well.

My son's on the OPFC Oregon Premier Football Club team.

So I could, you know, I'm there a couple days a week.

I can yell at parents out there like, hey, what do you guys think about foothills?

I can do surveys while the kids are practicing.

I'm just getting it.

Sometimes we'll do a demonstration project where we'll the plan will be say it's going under underway of adoption, and then we know that say development might not happen for another year or two.

We'll fill in that gap by doing well.

We've painted like we've we've created a like the Vancouver bike garden.

And that's a place for kids to go and like learn how to ride, how to ride a bike on the street without being on the street.

It's like this, it's called a traffic garden if you look it up.

That activated the site, which allows you to keep providing information for the project because that they they're curious, like what's happening here?

This is an awesome space.

It's active next to the park.

Interim, it's temporary, but it allows you to continue that conversation with communities because they see things happening.

It might not be the the thing, but there's active activity there.

So and we've every project we have one of these.

We have a demonstration project that we create.

We don't know what it is usually until we get into the project, but it usually comes around and it allows us to continue conversation.

So that's something that I think could happen, say a couple months after adoption starts, or when D when uh when booking group takes on the adoption process and the code amendments, we can start thinking about what can we do to get sneak peek information out there.

Right.

So that stay tuned.

I think we're that's we are we're always excited to do those types of tactical urbanism projects.

Sounds exciting.

Yeah, good.

Yeah, we really we really thought that first 40 feet had a huge strength in public involvement, and I think that idea of kind of being really responsive and iterative about how we want to go through this and just kind of um really uh being mindful of the information that we're receiving and trying to you know respond to that as directly as we can is is a huge strength that we um are excited to get going and and uh work with them on.

Yeah, yeah.

Thanks, Will and Jason, for for coming down this evening and talking to us on the entire um first 40 feet team.

Um I know in the presentation there's several references.

I think to building on past work or continuing work, and I assume that's the reference to this having the we've gone through this back in 2011, 2012 with Foothills District Plan.

Um I think we may have talked about this as a group last time.

Is there a way for us to educate ourselves and what happened back then and why it may have I'm gonna use the word stalled, I don't know if that's the correct word, but what you know why it why it's stalled then and how it is now.

Is there something we can we can do to educate ourselves to understand that?

Well, as I assume you all are doing the same thing or having exactly we we have quite a bit of catch-up on that front.

And I from staff side, there's anxiety there too.

So I think if that we need that special moment where that daylights and and we get a clear understanding of the different the players that were involved and and the process that that led to.

So yeah, I mean, the last thing you want to do is repeat and get back into that same vicious cycle.

But these are the kind of projects that are gonna continue to bring resistance, and that's just it's just the nature of of the work.

But yeah, I think the more clear-eyed we are going into things.

And the other thing is being just talking to the those folks who are most affected who may have the most resistance.

You've got to bring them in early and you gotta talk often.

And that's the only way to get resolution because otherwise people go into a vacuum and then they just create their spin cycle and they just build a coalition against it.

And because they're not sitting in there, but if they're in the room with you and they're talking and they're seeing what you're seeing and what you're learning as you move through the process, and you're sort of checking back in with them, it's kind of hard to keep poking holes at it.

I mean, so we're I've got a lot of scars, but yeah, I still love doing it.

It's it's worth it.

Like, and I know it is for you all too.

Like this is an important time, this is an important thing.

And um, we're we're all probably gonna have to help each other out a little bit as we as we go along.

It's not gonna be particularly easy, but yeah.

Yeah, there's definitely kind of a disconnect, I think, when people think about the way that that project ended and you know, sort of um, you know, sort of tensions, I suppose, that um led to that project stalling, and we're coming out here, we're excited to move this project forward, kind of cheery faces and you know, uh we do know what we're getting into, you know.

We do know that this is going to be a contentious exercise.

And you know, I do um think that that's very much something we're mindful of, and you know, we don't necessarily want to rehash everything that happened last time, but um we do have a lot to use as a starting point.

You know, there was a lot of, especially on the technical side of things, a lot of analysis done that we can still utilize in this effort, um, as well as just a lot of thinking and planning in that area that may or may not be um you know translatable to the current context, but that's really kind of our our biggest task here is to you know be able to use something as a pretty solid starting point for discussion, but to you know, know that that will need to be changed as we move forward.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You know, I'd say from my perspective, I don't want to speak for the rest of the commissioners, but as we have future work sessions on this, sort of weaving into them, you know, the concerns of the past and how you maybe circumstances of changes and those concerns aren't here, or how we are may addressing them differently, or how we're pushing back, you know, again.

I think us understanding that collectively would be would be helpful.

Yeah, so we're not blindsided also, at least.

I think I think we've I think nobody's gonna be blindsided.

That's another kind of uh argument for using this polling firm as well, you know, so we can kind of go back to the community and you know get sort of a statistically significant sample of what people are thinking at a given time and sort of do that at multiple points throughout the process.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I I think it is hard to sort of put your finger in the in the air and know exactly which way the winds were blowing back in 2012, even as it was happening, but obviously there was you know some negative response to what was done at that time.

Um and we can you know sort of try to capture that to a degree, but you know, I think we do again want to recognize that this is a new opportunity, I think, to kind of talk about this in uh a bit of a fresh um with a fresh lens, I suppose.

Yep.

I agree.

Thank you.

I have another question.

It may not be for you as much, and it may not be appropriate for tonight, but just from my own knowledge, this is all the foothills district plan is contingent upon moving the wastewater treatment plan.

Is that correct?

It's not necessarily contingent on it.

Um how especially the previous iteration of the plan, that was not a component of it.

Um, but it is kind of what spurred this latest round of planning, I would say.

Um, you know, that sort of relocation from what you can see on the map, that's sort of area three, which is where the current Trion Creek wastewater treatment facility is located.

Um the new site is kind of where you see that dashed area um in the um yellow zone and and sort of area one.

Um so you know, I we that's where I'll go.

That we yeah, we we did talk about this briefly at a work session, I think, but we didn't see the map, so it's good to visualize it here.

Um but yeah, the idea is that you know, the um plant that's currently taking up all the space that you can see in sort of area three there will occupy much less space.

So it's um I think going to downsize from like 13 to uh something like eight um acres.

So it'll be uh much smaller um than it was previously and will open up some space as a result.

Um so that's really a piece of why we're revisiting this here is to think more holistically and not just kind of plan this wastewater treatment plan in a vacuum.

Um and also I think if you look back at the 2012 plan, you'd notice that there was a transportation network envision that would really um it would be disrupted by the location of this wastewater treatment sort of replacement facility.

Um so we're gonna we're not gonna be able just to take and sort of stamp that back on this area.

We really have to rethink the transit and um sort of transportation functionality of this area.

Um now that sort of these sort of moves have been happening in recent years.

Are these numbers important still or is this a historic image?

It's our our current drawing, it just number one and two are like the most that those are like that's our proper site proper one and two can though that's that's the area we're looking at.

Got it.

Three is again that's opening up areas where we can we can plan, and then four potentially as well.

So five is is an influence.

Five is like potential uh partner influence, got to pay attention to them.

Five as well, it's like potentially that's an influence.

We can we could pay attention to that that area as well.

But there is no phasing or anything associated with the number of things.

And I was wondering why it's five is in purple, and then the area to the right is not any color.

Is there a difference?

Um well, five is sort of as we think about how we access the site that that's an impact area in the previous 2012 plan.

You all looked at the it there was some uh you know, redesign of that area in in terms of including some additional commercial, and so it's not like directly immediately gonna be a part of the framework plan, but it's it's sort of an area of influence and it's important to think about because that is sort of the front door.

It's gonna be one of the front doors to the district and how important we know how important that connection is to the lake and to into the plaza that you already have today.

And so that that's why that's there.

It's sort of we want to look at the impacts of building the framework for the primary development, but that that may provide some opportunities in five that we want to look at.

Thank you.

Yep.

Yeah, we're just kind of looking at sub areas here, but I think it's important to note that um the you know, we're looking at a study area right now, and you can see that that's a black line that surrounds more than just those sub-areas that I was talking about.

So I think really just want to point out that part of the project is defining these boundaries and where specifically we want to focus things like um the zoning changes in particular.

Um so you know, I think it's all part of the conversation essentially.

So we we haven't we're not trying to sort of um you know instill any ideas about that quite yet.

It's still very early in the process, but we're just trying to sort of break things out and understand them a bit better.

Going back to the treatment plan, we will collaborate with the designers of that facility because I we don't want to box ourselves into a corner like you're you're impacting something, you know, few like you're gonna future cast it, right?

So just working with them.

I know that's probably likely the best location, but you know, are there tweaks that we can do to get um the ability to have access or circulation?

We don't know, we're working through that.

So that's Jacobs, right?

Yes, that yeah, they're working on the the design for that treatment plant.

Yeah, you can just kind of see though, you know, there's I mean, if you're familiar with the site, you know that there's a lot of sort of uh topographical uh features or not maybe not feature, but it drops down pretty um steeply before you get down to that um the actual neighborhood itself.

You know, there's a lot of kind of winding access paths to get down there.

So you know, we really just want to be as um thoughtful about potential access points as possible, and you don't want to really limit yourselves in that conversation either.

At least not yet.

But this is great to start talking about the actual plan because we've just been talking about planning to plan quite a while.

So we're we're we're gonna be excited when we can actually talk about the uh the site itself and and get some, you know, I think that's a good thing.

Are we gonna give suggestions to the community of like here's a menu of things that could go in there?

I haven't, I mean, there's some sort of like vague parts about it, but are we gonna have specifics like we could have a baseball field?

We could have uh I don't think we'll probably not that.

Yeah, we're gonna bring major league baseball as now there's you know, I think the first thing you typically start with is the program that you had from the 2012 plan because a lot of that work was vetted through sort of market analysis and you had a developer who you know generally saw that kind of working that whatever that density is and mix of uses.

And so that's always a good starting point as areas change.

If there's more land than there was before, now we can look at you know different capacity for development, maybe adding more of something that wasn't there before.

But I think I mean the nexus here, at least I think the way I'm understanding it is well, we're trying to create a neighborhood here.

And neighborhoods, great neighborhoods have a variety of different housing types.

They've got great access to parks and open space.

They're walkable.

There, there's a grid, a network of streets that you can navigate through.

Um, but maybe there's components of a community center or some other things that maybe weren't in the previous plan that maybe now make sense.

Maybe the parks and record been considering some things that we can then roll into that development program that maybe wasn't thought of before.

That could be one um one element.

So yeah, well, they'll we'll like I said, we'll start with sort of one scenario and look at others.

The other is sort of wondering how do you create maybe some type of commercial node or sort of destination on the waterfront.

I mean part of the issues here is you don't have the drive-by and accessibility currently.

And if the district continues to be sort of a dead end, right?

You drive in and you drive out that has some limitations on the ability to create certain types of synergy of you know, commercial nodes or neighborhood centers types of things.

But you know, you all we all know great models of neighborhoods that have all these awesome components that that make them so special.

Like I live in Southeast Portland and I can walk to a grocery store and I can walk to 15, 20 different restaurants.

My kids can walk to school, I can walk to parks, we can bike up to Mount Tabor.

And I think we envision this site being able to build in those attributes as well.

It's just a complement to the amazing neighborhoods you already have here.

This really is just inserting it in as a part of that DNA that is like a swiggo, which is pretty awesome.

I mean, we were just walking north of here, and it's just it's absolutely stunning walking through the neighborhoods and the incense cedars are massively enormous, and just you know, just the quality of the environment is really is really awesome.

So it's it's not like we don't have good bones to look at and emulate.

So sorry for going on too long.

No, that's helpful.

And I mean it does feel like it kind of falls off a cliff down there.

Yeah, I know it is the hinterlands.

Yeah, sort of.

Yep.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's helpful.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's definitely something I guess that you know, we're thinking we want to think big, think outside the box.

We don't want to close anything off.

Um, but you know, as the city representative here, I have to know that we do have some you know plans, I guess that the city has been talking about with respect to expansion of Foothills Park, as well as um, you know, sort of the envisioning in the HPS of utilizing this area to support affordable housing through the urban renewal plan um through TIFF funding.

So there are some things that we have been talking about specifically concretely, um, maybe that either would be related to this area or concretely located in that area.

Um, but you know, that's that's really still pretty flexible.

There's still a lot of space to work with here.

So nothing's pre-organized.

We have a question here about your um overarching message.

Uh in the phraseology here, you have transit-friendly.

What does that mean?

Access to be able to get on a bus and move around to different parts, whether it's you know, back to Portland or over to Forest Grove, that that living in this neighborhood is gonna still give you access to other ways to move around the the community.

So maybe it was too specific around transit, maybe should have been more focused on just the ability to do that.

Well, I'm not trying to pin you down on anything.

I'm just trying to figure out uh what's the problem now that that needs to be corrected.

That's what I'm kind of after.

Yeah, I think it is some of that, like if I'm gonna just my guilty pleasure on this one is you know, there isn't really transit serving the district today.

There is on the edge, you know, obviously 43 you can get on off, but but it there isn't something sort of circulating through the site and out that that brings it into the fold as it does for the rest of the city.

So that I'm I'm sort of curious about that that component of it.

We have TriMet, you know, as a part of our uh technical advisory committee.

But this is where the max line was gonna go at some point.

Street car street cars, streetcar.

Yeah, that was uh I think a big component of the backlash ultimately that came uh back on the 2012 plan.

Um, although even the sort of post-street car version of the plan was you know not resisted was stalled as well.

Um sorry, go ahead.

But no, I just want to point out um transit's actually kind of a necessity here if we want folks to live there because it's really just in terms of the actual if we're doing a traffic impact study for this area, um, it's not um going to be able to support that many um residences without something besides automobile use.

So it really is something that's functional too, that if we want this to be an active sort of um, you know, livable, walkable, um, vibrant community, you know, we don't want it to be um, you know, we want to make sure that folks can get there and that folks are able to access it, you know.

And um, I think it's a part of the city that could actually benefit from you know, bus lines that are already in existence and some service that um, you know, we we do have some good bones in this part of the city that we could benefit from as well.

So really just kind of pulling this area into the rest of the downtown and making it more connected, I think is more kind of what we were aiming for there.

Yeah, I would even say it's mobile mobility is is key, like bike.

I love to be able to bike in and out of here as well.

But thinking outside the box, I'd say you need a water taxi.

It takes you from here to Portland to commute.

Let's do that.

And access across 43 can be difficult.

Like if you're here trying to get down to foothills on foot or by bike, that's right.

It's a little, you know, you so I'm wondering if that'll be part of the plan as well.

It will need to be, yeah.

I think that's you know, we're not going to be able to solve all these sort of larger connectivity issues potentially in terms of um you know all the sort of transit pieces here, but when it comes to just getting across 43, I think that's one of the biggest things that we could really sort of buy off.

And I think we could probably make some really great recommendations on that sort of front.

So I'm not not trying to promise too much here, but I think that that is absolutely critical to the success of the state.

Eric said we're getting a tram.

We are gonna make that our number one right now.

Crossing 43.

That's crossing 43, making that doable and accessible in multiple locations is absolutely the goal.

We will work hard.

I can tell you're not done.

Second question I have is you've got in here inclusive neighborhood, and I'd just like to hear what you think about that.

Yeah, I mean, when I think about an inclusive neighborhood, it it's a variety of of housing types and people who live in the neighborhood.

There's I I live next to this neighborhood called Lads Edition, and it was it was interesting, it's such an interesting neighborhood.

It's got these crazy diagonal streets, and it has these big oval roundabouts and these rose gardens sprinkled in everywhere.

But the initial concept, and it was built during the streetcar era.

So one edge of the neighborhood sort of evolved, and it had a few commercial storefronts, it had some of the apartment buildings along Hawthorne Boulevard, it had some homes that were sort of like the the four-unit apartment buildings next to the single family homes.

They had some kind of mansion type homes, but they also had a number of sort of workforce housing homes and smaller duplexes, and they were all sort of integrated in the neighborhood.

Um and it evolved over time.

And they started with the first products that were the best sells and generating um income for that developer.

But it was a really kind of a thoughtful process.

They had a school integrated into the neighborhood as well.

And so I sort of see that personally as a model that I've seen be successful.

And when I think of inclusive, I I think of that so that there's a variety of opportunities for a range of people to live in the neighborhood.

I think it's kind of the bottom line.

Well, for me as well, for us, we when we talk to people, we ask the question what makes you feel safe, what makes you feel comfortable, what makes you feel welcome, what brings you to neighborhoods?

How do you you know what also what makes you feel uncomfortable?

And we want to, you know, especially talking to cultural groups, making it feel like it's theirs.

They have ownership in it, like they feel welcome, and it takes a long time to get there, but there's a lot of conversations we should have on that topic, which we try to have design to where people feel like I could live here.

Depending on where their background or socioeconomic that's that's also the goal, inclusivity and housing types and affordability, but also the sense of ownership and welcome here.

So that's all that is a fun journey for us.

I I take it you probably want us as a commission to go down there and see for ourselves, not yeah.

That would be excellent.

I mean, I think there'll be lots of opportunities for um you all to participate in engagement events, but that is um a very great idea for a potential planning commission work session in the future.

Yeah, yeah, field trip, I guess maybe we don't have to call it a work session.

But um, yeah, I think it is critical to go down there and see what's going on and um get a read for the land, especially the sort of existing um wastewater treatment facility.

It's it's really interesting just how much space it takes up and the sort of angles that you can see based on the topography.

And it is, I'm not sure I'd call it hidden necessarily, but it's surprising how much land it takes up for what you actually see when you're down in that area.

Um it is yeah, it's just it's it's kind of deceiving in some ways.

So it is helpful to go down and see the mix of uses that are in this area and the kind of um potential challenges, especially the railroad going right through there and kind of um in addition to 43, that is another significant sort of um barrier to access to this area and just kind of have all those things interplay.

Even just turning you know, into this neighborhood, you'll you'll get a really good sense of kind of um you know some of the barriers that we're going to be facing with access, and um, it's not the most intuitive part of the city, I would say.

So commissioners, any other questions or discussion points?

Okay, I think thanks again.

Well, and Jason, really appreciate your time this evening and for walking us through this and and looking forward to partnering with you for quite some time.

Perfect.

Thanks.

Agenda item number eight, other business.

Yeah, I just have one item of their business.

It's actually an opportunity to have a member of the commission participate further in the uh process that Jessica is leading right now to um uh amend our tree regulations.

So we had a work session on this not long ago.

I guess it was um back on the 28th of July, so two work sessions ago.

Um but yeah, I think we talked about how there might be more opportunities for participation outside of just the venue of the commission.

Uh this would be a small kind of virtual focus group with other members of boards and commissions in the city to weigh in.

So I just wanted to let you all know that there is an opportunity for one of you.

You don't necessarily have to, it's not like we need somebody from the planning commission or else.

Um, so you don't have to necessarily decide right now, but um, I will forward this on to all of you after our meeting, and you can respond via email or um yeah, you know, obviously if you want to just volunteer right now, that's okay too, but no pressure.

Um, but yeah, I think um it would be a great opportunity to weigh in on the tree regulations if that's something that you felt like you had some knowledge and kind of a depth of expertise about where you have some um opinions to to offer the process.

And that's it.

I don't know, Jessica, if you want to say more about kind of what you're looking for.

There we go.

Is it on?

There it is.

Uh it just as Eric said, it's this isn't a requirement, so you shouldn't feel pressure.

But I just wanted to extend the opportunity because we will have a focus group, which I would say is probably gonna not be more than five to eight members of our boards and commissions.

And um, I know you all just had a study session on this, but if you feel like you have some burning issues with the tree code or uh other tree regulations that you want to talk about or you want to give us feedback, um you're more than welcome uh to to uh participate in the focus group.

So just reach out to Eric or I, and we're happy to add you to the list.

And that would be happening um in September.

And if uh if you get in touch with me, we'll we'll get more information on when and where that will happen.

It's just a one-time focus group meeting.

Uh it'll be in uh September, but once we get our focus group members together, then we'll schedule it.

And we tend to do uh polling, like a doodle poll to find a time that works the best for most people.

So yeah.

I'd like to do that.

Okay.

All right.

Well, I guess Jim.

Um say asking a question is volunteering here, so you're in, Jim.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh item number nine, schedule review.

All right.

So um we're now through August, and so talking about what we'll be discussing in the fall at the commission.

Um, we'll start on September 8th.

That our next meeting will be conducting a hearing on the proposed comprehensive plan amendments for fair housing policy.

Um, shortly after that, two weeks later, the second meeting in this in September.

We'll have a work session on the rezoning for housing project.

Um, kind of similarly in a place where we're applying for grants and of scoped a bit of the project.

So just want to tell you a little bit about that, as well as considering findings.

I, you know, if all goes well at the hearing for that comprehensive plan amendment on fair housing.

Uh on October 13th, we are um scheduled for a hearing on home occupation standards.

So it's taken uh a little a little bit of uh some time for us to get that back to hearing.

You haven't uh discussed that since back in uh early June, but that will come back to you on October 13th for a hearing, and we'll be distributing those materials in advance as well.

Um and the second meeting in October, um, we'll be considering the findings for those home occupation amendments as well at again if all goes well at the hearing, as well as um talking about um some updates that are um that we've received on our process to request an exemption to the mandatory adjustments uh provisions of Senate Bill 1537, which um we talked a bit with you about in the context of the HPS work, but um have given you some sort of periodic updates on this um last year mostly we talked about this, but um the city submitted essentially uh application to be exempt from these mandatory adjustment requirements, and we were granted that exemption.

But there are a lot of conditions that go along with that and some sort of nuances that we should all be aware of and potential code changes that might be required there.

So Johanna Hasty, our planning manager, will come in and talk with you all about those at a work session on the 27th of October.

So lots of content to get through.

Obviously, we're talking about these tree regulation amendments that will be a large undertaking.

But HB 2138 in general, you know, the sort of recent state legislation that has been passed related to middle housing specifically will require us to come up with kind of a plan for getting more amendments passed in a roughly the similar time frame of what we're talking about here prior to um 2027.

So uh, you know, we're uh we've got a lot in our docket here, but we also have more things kind of coming that we're still kind of incorporating into the schedule.

So I think uh yeah, we're in this kind of down period where we're talking about all these grant applications that we have in, but things are gonna get going pretty quickly pretty quick.

Um so in the fall is when hopefully you know the rubber will start hitting the road a little bit more at the commission.

But I think we have a fast and furious uh 2026 ahead of us as well.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you, Eric.

Nothing else?

We're adjourned.